Melinda French Gates Gets Vulnerable About Her Divorce "I never thought I'd be 60 and single"

I had somehow gotten to that point in. life, you know, in my 40s where I. thought, "Oh, there's these amazing joy. moments or these really sad low. moments." No, you can hold joy and. sadness side by side. One of the most influential voices in. the philanthropy community. Melinda French Gates. I thought I'd be. married 50 plus years. For me, I. couldn't go forward. There wasn't enough. trust any longer. I had days where I. thought, "I don't know if I'll ever be. happy again." That was the hardest thing. I had ever been through in my life.

Hey everyone, I've got some huge news to. share with you. In the last 90 days, 79.4%. of our audience came from viewers and. listeners that are not subscribed to. this channel. There's research that. shows that if you want to create a. habit, make it easy to access. By. hitting the subscribe button, you're. creating a habit of learning how to be. happier, healthier, and more healed. This would also mean the absolute world. to me and help us make better, bigger,

brighter content for you and the world. Subscribe right now. The number one. health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one the only Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to On. Purpose, the number one mental health. podcast in the world. Thanks to each and. every one of you that come back every. week to become a happier, healthier, and. more healed. You know that my greatest. fascination is sitting down with. individuals who've trodden paths that.

may seem really different from ours, but. we can still relate to them. We can. still connect to them. We can still see. ourselves in their experiences and find. advice, lessons, and insights that we. can apply to our own. Today's. conversation is going to do just that. I. have the honor today of speaking to. Melinda French Gates, a philanthropist, businesswoman, and global advocate for. women and girls. As the co-chair of the. Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Melinda sets the direction and.

priorities of one of the world's largest. philanthropies across the world. In. 2015, Melinda founded Pivotal Ventures, a company working to accelerate the pace. of social progress in the United States. Melinda is also the author of the. best-selling book, The Moment of Lift. Go and grab it if you haven't already. Please welcome to On Purpose, Melinda. French Gates. Melinda, it's such a joy. to be with you. Thank you so much for. being here. I'm so glad we could do this. I know, me.

too. Me too. And I want to dive straight. in. I have so many questions I wanted to. ask you, but I wanted to start off by. saying. you've gone through a lot of changes. recently. So, you just turned 60. Congratulations. You're a grandma now, I believe. So, congratulations. And I believe your last child just left. home. Uh-huh. And so, now you're an. empty nester, too, which not as much. congratulations, but you've been through. so many changes in your life, and I. wanted to start by asking you. what are your greatest takeaways on.

dealing with change? The thing that. seems to be the greatest constant in all. of our lives, but something none of us. seem to be prepared for or comfortable. with. Mhm. How have you learned to deal with. change? You know, I think I learned to. deal with change pretty early in my life. because I went away for college. A lot. of people in my school stayed in Texas. I grew up in Dallas. And I I embraced change. Like, I was. excited to go away for college, excited. to meet new people. And same thing,

after I left college, I then switched I. went to college in North Carolina Duke, and then I switched and went to Seattle. to a brand new company, hardly heard of. back then, Microsoft. And again, I just. jumped in with both feet and. and I found it fun, and I was curious to. meet people. So, to me, change isn't. something to be afraid of. It's more. something to embrace and say, "Oh, okay, here I am. I didn't expect to be in this. place in life, but I am now. So, okay,

how am I going to make the best of it?". And I try to stay open and curious. because so often people will come into. your life if you have change in a new. way or new place that I try to stay open. and curious like, "Oh, what might this. person be here to teach me? Or what can. I learn from them? Or can I connect to. them in a different way?" So, I don't. know. For me, change is in a certain way. kind of fun, and I embrace it. Where did. that mindset come from? Because I feel. so many people have the opposite. experience where change is scary, change.

is daunting, change is worrying. I. identify with how you feel about change. I chose to do pretty drastic things. early on in my life, which made me very. positive towards change because I had to. go against the grain, I had to disagree. with people that were close to me, I had. to not worry about what people thought. about my choices. And so, I feel the. same way as you do that I've seen change. as a positive thing in my life. But when. I speak to people, change is one of the. most scariest, worrying things. Where.

did your positive mindset towards change. come from? Was it a family member? Was. there something that happened early on. in your life where you had a change and. you adapted well? Where did that come. from? I think it probably was my. parents. I mean, my parents had both. grown up in New Orleans, but then had. gone away when my dad went to graduate. school, they got married and and moved. across the country to California. Then. they moved back to Dallas. My dad worked. on the early Apollo space missions. Talk. about change. Nobody had ever gone into. space or gone to the moon. And I saw how.

excited he was, and he was excited about. being part of it. And then my my parents. gave my siblings and me, I'm one of. four, um very middle-class family. growing up, but they constantly gave us. the the you will be college going. There. wasn't a choice. You will go to college. And it's a matter of where you go. You. can go anywhere you want to go in the. country. We'll take on the debt, but we. highly encourage you to go out of state. We just think you will learn more about. yourself and the world if you go out of.

state. And so, I think because they had. that mindset, I did choose a college out. of state. I went to Duke in North. Carolina. And to me, it just became kind. of exciting and fun. And I think if that. at that formative time in life, if. you're willing to go somewhere different. and try something out, then maybe you're. more likely to do it later. And then, I. never expected ever to have the role. that I'm in in philanthropy. But once we. started the Gates Foundation, I had the. opportunity to travel the world. And not.

that I wasn't already traveling, but I I. never would have gone to India, I don't. think, as many times as I did or so many. different places in Africa. And I. started to realize that the more you. travel, it's like a book. The more books. you read, the more you learn. The more. you travel, the more you learn about. people. And. and particularly how similar we are. And. so, I think I think my my parents. ingrained that in me. That's beautiful. What were your dreams back then? Obviously, your mission is so clear now, and we'll get to that. But I wonder. because.

when I see the work you've been doing, which is absolutely phenomenal, and the. fact that service is your entire life is. so inspiring to me and, you know, something I aspire for in my own life. But I wonder, where did your dream. start? Going to Duke, obviously an. incredible institution in and of itself. Parents who wanted you to study and. perform well. We'll talk about going to. Microsoft. But what were your dreams. back then when you're going to Duke? Like, what was the sky's the limit, so. to speak? What was the sky at the time? Well, I was lucky that in in eighth.

grade, my parents sent me to a course. that my dad had been through through his. work. Had just recently sent him called. the successful life course, which I kind. of think is a little bit of a funny name. now when I look back on it. But. they taught us a couple of things. One. was to take quiet time in the morning, and the other was to set goals. Like. really have goals for your life, and. don't necessarily share those with the. world. Share them with a couple of. people you trust. And so, I set a goal. of going to college. I set a goal during.

high school of hey, I realize I actually. want to go to college in computer. science. So, I picked a university that. was good at that at the time. And I knew. I wanted to be a professional working. woman eventually with children. And so, I think that sort of goal mindset really. helped set me on my path to then go on. to Duke, and then go on eventually to a. career at Microsoft. Who ran this. course? It was a man and a woman. Ed Foreman was. the man, and they were down in a a. southern part of Texas, and you would go.

off with a cohort of people you didn't. know. My sister and I went together. Yeah, you just soaked it in, and they. gave us a whole bunch of books to read. We had, you know, we read a Dale. Carnegie's book on influencing people, right? And I think at the same time, I. mean again, very formative time in my. life. I'm in eighth grade. I'm switching. to a new high school. But in high school, I had these very. liberal nuns. It was an Ursuline. Academy. It was an all-girls Catholic. school. We got the messages from all of our. female teachers. We could be anything we.

wanted to be in the world. They were. incredibly supportive. But the nuns also taught taught us two. things. One was to take time in silence. There was a chapel in the middle of the. school, which wasn't a fancy chapel. It. was two classrooms, but they were put. together. You could go and have this. silent time. They would send us off on. silent retreats. But they also sent us. out to serve. The motto of the school. was serviam, that is to serve. And they. taught us that, you know, one person, just one person can make the difference.

in the life of another person. And And. if you are lucky enough to come to a. school like Ursuline, and somebody's. paying your private tuition, which was. my parents, you should serve. And so I. served in the. local um public school 2 miles down the. road, and I saw the difference in that. public school for those kids versus. where I was, or the Dallas County. Courthouse, or the local hospital. And. so I think those values got embedded. very early on. Mhm. I love hearing that. because those courses sound so close to.

the kind of programming we offer today, and I always think about just how even. in formal education you may not be. exposed to some of these ideas which. seem like everyone should have access to. them. And it's incredible that, you. know, you had a course like that that. you went to early on. I was going to ask. you two questions about that. What have. you found is the value of spending that. time alone, both from the course and. obviously from the nuns that you got in. your uh school? Like what have you. found? Do you still do that? What value. What has been the greatest value that.

you've gained from that over the last. few decades? Mhm. I spend time in silence almost every. single day. And I just find for me it's often in the. morning um before I exercise or get on. my phone or whatever. And I just find. that that's the time that you. at least for me that I I can hear. myself. I can hear in silence those. moments of mhm I made a mistake. yesterday. Mhm I didn't quite show up.

the way I wanted to. I wasn't my whole. integrated self. Or oh, wow, I would. really like to show somebody today how. grateful I am for them. I haven't I. haven't gotten to do that in the last. week. And so. that time in quiet for me is just it's a. time to really connect to my soul and to. and to I hope integrate um all the. things that have come um over time in my. life or in the day before. I also made sure when our kids were.

growing up that we went around the. dinner table and we all said what we. were thankful for before we ate our. meal. And the only rule was you couldn't. criticize what somebody else was. thankful for. And ideally you'd come up. with your own. And even when we'd have. tables of teenagers for dinner, everybody did it. And I was always just. amazed what came out of their mouth It's. out of their mouths. And it was just. that little moment of gratitude, right? And I think so often if we can stop and. be silent and quiet and hear ourselves,

then the gratitude comes. And boy, does. gratitude help you get through a lot of. things in life, even hard things. For. sure, for sure. And And the second thing. you mentioned there was setting your. goals. But you shared something really. interesting. You talked about how only. with the people you trust. And I wanted. to ask what was the perception or the. reason for that? Because that's really. powerful, I think, for people to hear. Mhm. So, this course that I went to, this successful life course, they said, you know, only share your goals with,

you know, a few trusted people because. you're going to have a lot of critics. You're going to have a lot of people who. say, "No way. You want to go to that. university? You You can't make that. Or. you want to be that in life? No, not a. chance.". But a few trusted people who have your. back and have your interest in mind, they will help you meet your goal or. find your dream or advance you towards. your dream. And uh I found that to be. very true all through life, actually. And it becomes incredibly important to.

cultivate. those relationships with those trusted. people. And vice versa, that you become. there in their small circle of trust. Yeah. We make one of two mistakes. We. either tell everyone everything or we. tell one person everything. So, we. either want everyone to have all the. answers to all of our questions. And. you're so right that if we tell everyone. our plans, everyone's going to have an. opinion about your plan and that opinion. may actually discourage you and.

disempower you because we're so opened. up and exposed to people's opinions. about us and the opposite is also true. that if you only tell one person that. can be really hard as well because that. person may not have the tools or the. resources or the experience to guide you. and so having this Council of wise. advisors or guides or mentors or. well-wishers and friends can be such a. powerful thing. I think when people are. setting goals it's probably one of the. biggest mistakes we make today where we. announce it on social media to the whole.

world or we tell everyone in our. WhatsApp chat or group chat or whatever. it may be and it can be really really. tough. You're fortunate that you gained. some of these exposures early on and. they've helped you in your mindset. What's a lesson that you wish you would. have learned earlier? What's a lesson. that you learned later on in life that. you wish you'd learned earlier? I have. learned so many things later in life and. you know, I think you also. have three children they're now in their. 20s they're not children anymore but.

you learn a lot when you're parenting. your children like you may think oh I'm. a patient person. but you have no idea what patience is. until you have children and until you. really are trying to pass your values on. you have to really kind of. sit with okay, what are my values? I. thought I knew them but am I living them. so that I can pass them on. I would say one one lesson I learned. later in life was that the world really. isn't built for everybody you know.

I I kind of assumed when I left I was in. such a supportive environment in high. school with this all girls school that. when I went out to University. you know, I just met so many different. people of different walks of life which. was. fantastic and widening and it helped me. grow. but then when you go out in your. professional career I just saw began to. see so many blocks for women and people. of color, where I just assumed when we. left university, we would have the same.

opportunities as men or. even as I traveled for the foundation, I. just assumed if we were getting a new. technology out in a community, it went. to the men women equally. That was just. a completely false assumption. And I. think I didn't realize how the world had. been maybe inadvertently, but set up for men. And you know, I had. to go back and learn some history to. understand how did we get where we are.

to say, okay, well, how could we start. to maybe accelerate some of that change. What was the first experience you had in. your life? Like you said, you had none. saying to you, you can you know, you can. be anything you want and. opportunities are available. You had. that training. When was the first time. you had personal experience of oh, I. don't actually have the same types of. opportunities as men. Well, when I went into computer science, it do there were some women freshman. year, but by sophomore year, there was.

me and maybe a couple of others. And I. realized that a lot of the young men. freshman year were better trained than I. was in computer science. So, they were. already coming in a step up, which is. why we lost so many women. I was trained well enough, thank God, that I could persist and keep my. self-esteem up to move through and to to. continue on, but I just started to realize part of. the reason we don't have more women in. computer science and look how important. technology has become in our society. We.

still don't have nearly enough women in. the tech sector creating products. It's. because. we haven't offered the right There are. many reasons, but we haven't for. instance offered the right classes to. young women, so that when they go to. college, their confidence is up, they've. programmed as much as young men or that. opening freshman class is a creative. class, not just a coding tech class. So, we just. we have whole industries, for instance, in the United States that just are not.

as welcoming to women. Politics in our. own country is not at all welcoming to. women. I mean, women get harassed on the. campaign trail so much more than men. And they will tell you if they want to. run their campaign, uh say they want to become a state. senator, they have to have had a certain amount. of money to do that, which is why men. usually will have more money by a. certain point in their life saved up to. be able to run. Or a buddy will come in. and will fund their buddy to be in.

politics. So, it just there're just many places where. there are roadblocks and barriers for. women and people of color that don't. necessarily exist for a white man. And I. think we need to look at those and take. some of them down, so everybody can can. rise up into positions of power, use. their full creativity. Yeah, you said. you had to go back and study history a. little bit to look at how that had. transpired. What were some of the key. moments or key points of history that. you think were worthy of studying for. people to look back at and educate.

themselves on that you think would be. valuable? Well, for sure, the US. Constitution. I mean, there were no. women in the room writing the. Constitution, there are no black people. in the room writing the Constitution. If. you try to imagine what we might have. devised. with other people at the table, you know, and not counted women as you. can't vote or you're not smart enough to. vote or uh black people as slaves and so. not worthy, you would have created a. society, if the right people were at the. table, you'd have created a society that.

was probably more equal for everybody. And so, you know, going back and looking. at that piece of history or looking at I. just. I couldn't understand as I would go out. for the foundation and meet so many. women in so many communities in Africa. or Southeast Asia who knew about. contraceptives and had them. and no longer did. And they kept saying, "Why? Why don't we have them? You have. them in your country. Why don't we have. them? We used to." And as I I had to. literally learn the history of.

contraceptives around the world, what. had happened with those and even where. my own religion, I grew up Catholic, where the Catholic church had not wanted. women to have contraceptives and blocked. even funding for that. And yet, we know. that if a woman has access to. contraceptives, she's healthier, her. family, her kids are healthier, and the. family's wealthier, and it lifts them. out of poverty. And so, I had to learn. that whole history before I was willing. to say, "Okay, am I going to step into.

this very controversial issue? I'm. Catholic. Um I have a deep faith. Um. but what's the right way to step in also. um that maintains my integrity and what. I've seen, but could potentially move. this issue forward because it's it. literally is a life and death situation. often for women if they have their. children too close together and their. bodies aren't ready. As a creator, I. want to bring you great content. If. you're a creator or an entrepreneur or.

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j shetty. kajabi.com/jayshetty. Join the creators and entrepreneurs who. have made over seven billion dollars. How do you walk those difficult paths? Because to me, that's often where we all. find ourselves. Like I don't think. there's that much clarity. It's not. always black and white. It's not always. easy. It's not always like this is the. obvious path. Although we may try and. make it that way sometimes. Often. there's so much more complexity in even.

trying to change the world or having a. positive impact in the world. How do you tread that carefully also. recognizing that there'll still be. backlash? Mhm. So, this was all around 2011 and 2012 when I. knew. we needed to have more contraceptives in. the world. We needed to further this. issue and I knew the foundation could. play a role in that. And I started to. realize that probably my voice in that. would make a difference as a female.

And I will be honest, I was terrified. Terrified to speak out on this issue. Yes, I was using contraceptives. Yes, I. was educating my children about their. bodies and and what they should do long. term. But to step out on the world stage. and say this is what I believe and know. I would be attacked by my own church. Um, you know, as a little girl where I. sat in the pews, you know, and saw who. was at the top of the church. Like I. wasn't something I wanted. And so I had. to do several things. One is I took a.

lot of time in quiet to think about what. do I believe, why would I do this, what. are the ramifications for me, my. children, my parents, my family, what. are the ramifications for the. foundation, who can I have support me. that that will help me learn and be and. and maybe do this in the right way. I also. um went back and questioned my faith a. lot. I started listening to a very. liberal Catholic priest, Richard Rohr, and his writings. That was incredibly. helpful to me to realize you could push.

against some of that, some of those. man-made rules, and I listened to a lot. and read a lot of Brené Brown's work. You know, Daring Greatly was hugely. helpful to me cuz I literally felt like. I'm going to step off a precipice and. talk about this issue. And I did. eventually get attacked by the Catholic. Church and attacked from both the left. and the right, but it was okay. And the. reason it was okay was one I had already. talked to my kids about it, talked to my. parents, the people I cared about the. most,

but also I knew what I had seen in the. developing world. I knew what women were. asking me. And I knew this tool made a. difference in their life. And so how. could I have this platform and be in. this position and them be willing to. share their lives and their stories with. me and me not use my voice. That That. didn't make any sense. So I really. wrestled with all of that for probably. 10, 12 months before I then was willing. to come out. Um and again, I had a group.

of small group of female friends around. that I said, "Oh, I'm going to do this. and it's going to be scary, but I could. sort of talk it through and work it. through, right?" Um. And then when you take that one. courageous step and and then it does. start to snowball and it goes better. than you think in some ways, worse in. some ways than you thought, but okay, then you're not as a At least for me, I. wasn't afraid then for other courageous. steps I needed to take in my life later. on. Yeah, I think there's so much wisdom. there, the idea that.

first of all, knowing who you are and. what matters to you at a very core. level. I think a lot of us sometimes do things. because we think they look good or they. might work out or someone will but but. knowing that I feel this is important. and it matters to me. I love the idea of. what you're saying of speaking to your. friends, the people around you and. recognizing that it's not all oh, it's. going to be great and everyone's going. to love it. No, actually there are going. to be consequences, ramifications, challenges.

And then the idea that it took you 10 to. 12 months, I love hearing that because I. think we often think that the our best. decisions or big decisions are instant. and we know it and you kind of flow in. the moment but often we have to sit with. these things and see how they sit with. us in silence across a period of time. And so I love hearing all of that. I. think that's really valuable. You've. talked about. you know, tell me about your experiences. with imposter syndrome because I can. imagine even when you're trying to make. these changes. and maybe even earlier on in life. Maybe.

what was your earliest experience of. imposter syndrome? Oh gosh. Um. probably at the foundation. Um. probably the first 10 years of the. foundation's life, I felt like an. imposter. Here I am I'm a computer. scientist. I knew that background. I'd. gone to business school so I knew. economics but here we are in a whole. different field. I mean I I'm literally. it's a whole second career for me. I'm. learning about biology. I'm trying to. understand from people in global health.

what can be done. I'm you know, I'm. learning from doctors. I'm learning from. community health workers on the ground. but I just I didn't feel like I could. ever know enough to speak credibly on. this topic cuz I I didn't go to school. in global health, you know, or I wasn't. a doctor. But it took some time and again, someone. actually inside the foundation who was. working for me at the time came to me. and and wanted me to speak out on. something and I said, "No, no, I I don't. feel like I know enough." And this woman.

said to me, she said, "Are you kidding? Just look at all the traveling you have. done. Like go back and let's look at all. the trips you've done and all the. knowledge you've amassed." She said, "How many people have ever. done that kind of travel in that way to. be in these communities and to be at the. tables where the scientists I could come. back and scientists would explain things. to me and I could ask." And I thought, "Oh my gosh, I guess I. do know enough." And I'll never know. everything. No one will ever know.

anything everything on the history of. the earth, but I know enough to know. what I know deeply at a core core level. and to speak those truths. And I started. to realize there would be value in a. woman doing that because I could speak. on behalf of so many of these women that. I had met and who'd invited me into. their homes or shown me the tough. circumstances of their lives. And I. thought, "Okay, I've just got to go to. get over this um if if I if they've. spoken to me, I need to speak their.

truths in the world." And so um again, I. I think the first Brené Brown book I. ever picked up was The Gifts of. Imperfection. And I learned to embrace all these. places in me that I do see as imperfect. I still see as imperfect. I am an. imperfect person. You're an imperfect. person. We all are. But to embrace those. parts of myself instead of push them. away and say, "But I'm probably enough. I'm still enough to be this messenger.". Yeah, what advice would you give to. people who are listening or watching and.

have that imposter syndrome? It's so. easy to. There's there's goodness in that belief. Like I've always found that when I do. doubt myself. there's actually beauty in that because. it's a. humility in accepting that I don't know. There's a there's a goodness in. accepting that I don't have everything. figured out. I I actually think we often. play down that so much today. We make it. sound like it's terrible to have. imposter syndrome, but to me anyone who. has a conscience or or a reflection.

mechanism will will feel that pretty. much whenever they grow into a new. phase. So, I find it very useful to. display to me what's missing, what I've. not learned yet, what I need to study, what I need to become educated about, focus on. How would you guide and advise. people who are sitting here listening to. us and they're thinking, "Melinda, I. don't feel like I'm enough. I don't I. feel like I'm not well placed. I don't. know enough. I'm not good enough. I'm. not whatever else it may be." How would. you guide them through that? Well, I. think it's what you said. You have to.

actually see the beauty in the. imperfections. Somebody one time gave me. a heart that had all of these sort of. holes in it in a funny way. And And I. was going through something really. tough. And she she's part of my. spiritual group. I'm also in a spiritual. group, a non-denominational spiritual. group. And she gave it to me and she. said, "Melinda, this is probably like. your heart right now. Like you thought. it was kind of perfect, but no, it's. imperfect. But it's those holes and. those difficult places that have formed. you into who you are now as a person.".

And so, I would say to people, start by. looking at what messages you grew up. with in your home. What messages are you getting in your. workplace? What messages are society giving you? And are those possibly not true? And start to say to yourself, yes, there. are places in me that are imperfect. And. I agree with you. I think looking at. those helps us remain humble and not. narcissistic or in our egoic self. And. embracing those and saying, "But there's.

beauty in those. And what can I learn. from them?" But I do think once you. embrace those parts of yourself, you At. least for me, I just know I feel more. integrated and more like a whole person, right? And then sometimes you also need. to go back and make amends. There times. where you've really, you know, made some. mistakes or said something hurtful to. someone. And. once you embrace those pieces, going. back and making amends also, I think. again, helps you feel better about your.

core self because then you are living. even more in the truth and the beauty of. who you hopefully want to be. What else. do you do in your spiritual group and. how did you What is the What does that. look like as people I'm sure listening. and watching you also want to have a. spiritual group, a community, a tribe. What does that look like? What do you do. and how does it function? Yeah, so there. are eight of us women that are in this. group. We formed it in 2001. At the time, we all had small children, you know, going through school and we. were of different religions. Actually,

one or two were just no came from no. religion at all. And we just agreed that. we would meet monthly, second Wednesday. of the month, and we would pick a. reading or a book. um. and we would all. be with it, sit with it, read it, whatever it was. We all committed to. taking some time in silence every day, even if it was only 10 minutes. And then. coming to the group and having it be a. trusted circle where we could share our. innermost thoughts about that spiritual.

reading, about something going on in our life and. um. it just became a group that became. central to my life. And and I would say. vice versa. I know these women. incredibly well and their. trials and tribulations and losing a. parent or not sure they're going to how. the marriage is going to go or gosh, I. didn't parent very well in that moment. or here's where something has touched me. deeply in my life, nature. Um and then. we go on a silent retreat at least once.

a year. Um. and we're in silence usually for two or. three days. Sometimes we'll have a. leader come and guide us through that. Other times we've done it enough now. that we kind of go on our own. Um. but it's just a place of deep close. community where I would say we can touch. one another's souls and touch our own. souls. Wow. And And you've been doing. that since 2001? Uh-huh. Wow, that's incredible. yeah. That's unbelievable. Yeah. What What is.

with with with a community like that, how do you select who gets to be a part. of it? Because I guess life was very. different 23 years ago. Everyone goes through so many different. evolutions of life and phases. How do you pick who stays, who leaves, who goes and and build that together? How does that work? Well, at the time. that we formed the group, we didn't all. know each other. So there was connective. tissue between I would say three of us. who then brought in others into the.

group. And there we formed enough trust. over time that we knew, you know, that. the information wouldn't go outside the. group. You You didn't go tell your. spouse or your certainly your children. or your mother. And we had one hiccup. with one person in the group who It just. over time that person was clear wanted. to spin out. And so she did. That was. okay. But it just became this place of. trust and and life lessons and sort of. milestones. We've been through so much. together. And I wouldn't say that we all.

are best friends. Like some of us are. closer than others. Or the groups reform. based on somebody losing a parent or. but we're just there for each other. Like we have each other's backs. And. it's it it's When I was thinking about. coming out on these on talking about. contraceptives and being a bit more. public for the foundation, which I. hadn't been before, I talked it through. with this group first. They were one of. the first places I said, "I'm going to. do this and I am terrified. I'm. absolutely terrified." And I knew they.

could almost be a trust counsel for me. to tell me the truth of well, look here, be careful there, know you're going to. be okay. Um and it's almost like we kind. of grew up together. Mhm. That's. beautiful. And these were all peers. They're just at the time they're just. people you're meeting because I think. often we feel like we have to be. surrounded by like everyone who's 10. years ahead of us and 15 years ahead of. us and everyone has to be a mentor, but. we underestimate just how much our peers. and and the people that are going. through life at the same time at the. same.

pace. are so powerful in our lives and we. underestimate the people that are almost. around us. We do sometimes and you know, many of the women in this group are. maybe five or six years older than I am, but you also don't know. Like one of. them that's very close to me in age, her. husband was one of my best friends and. she we lost him at age age 37. I mean, who expects that, you know, when you're. in your 30s and you lose she loses her. husband, I lose one of my best friends. So these these moments also I think form.

you and you know, help shape who you. become. So yeah, it doesn't always have. to be somebody older. And in fact, because my youngest daughter um I had. the youngest of all the children in the. group. My last one was the youngest. I. ended up also though not in my spiritual. group, but with other friends then who. were younger than me and that was lovely. too. There's a lot of wisdom there and. you know, I have three other siblings. I. am extraordinarily close to my brother. who's 10 years younger than me. There's. so much wisdom there. So I think it has.

much more to do with is the person on a. growth path, right? And then can we. mutually learn from one another? Absolutely. You've talked about having. an addiction to perfection. Uh you know, and I think that's. something that a lot of us deal with. What's your relationship with. perfectionism now? Uh well, it was. awful. It's like it's like a. uh um How bad was it? Tell us. terrible. Walk us through. What would it look. like? Uh you know, dressing right, saying the. right thing in in, you know, at a at.

even like a dinner party or a cocktail. party or. or something like this. What if I messed. up and said the wrong thing on a. podcast? Oh my gosh, you know? And so, it was horrible. It was absolutely. horrible. It was zapping my energy. And. um and it was driving the people around. me, I finally realized, crazy, too. Like. somebody, you know, who would help. prepare me for something at the. foundation if I was going on a trip. You. know, I was grabbing all these facts and. figures and it just was so unnecessary.

And so, when I finally really looked at. it, and again, read this book on Gifts. of Imperfection and started to write. down all the places it was coming up in. my life or start to notice it, like oh. my gosh, before I leave my closet, I'm, you know, it's taking me 10 extra. minutes. How silly is that? Like I could. have 10 minutes to go be in silence or. be with my kids or And so, as soon as I. started to identify all the places I. could break them down. And it doesn't. mean it doesn't still come up. Um I was.

going to a a very small dinner party. last week with with a couple that I. really respected but didn't know well, and I was going with two other. girlfriends. And literally the hour before that I. went to get a bit of time and quiet, and. I realized that feeling of not knowing. enough was coming up. That. perfectionism. I need to know this. What. if they ask me this about the. foundation? Oh my gosh. And then I just. was like, no, stop. Just stop. I'm going. to be enough. And maybe there'll be some. things I can't answer tonight that you. know, I forgot that particular.

statistic, you know, cuz I haven't been. in that country in a while, but so what? Once you can start to let it go, and. again, I could just say, okay, well, I'll just be myself, then it then it's. fine. Yeah. And how do you stop that recurring. voice that judges you, criticizes you, maybe even afterwards says to you, oh, you shouldn't have forgotten that. statistic. Oh, if you would have said. this, then imagine how it would have. gone. I think it's hard enough to quiet. the voice before you go, let alone the.

voice that comes afterwards, that kind. of putting you down even further and. says, you could have done so much. better, you should have done better. And. especially. as someone who's come from a. high-performing college and and job and. everything else, like. how is that How is your relationship. with that voice evolved? Um I used to. get that so much after an event or. something I'd done. It almost never. comes up anymore. Mhm. It maybe comes up. maybe How? I stopped judging myself. And. when I stop And I also stopped judging.

other people. When I learned to not. judge other people, I realized you have. to look at when you judge somebody else. and your finger's pointing this way, you. know, like Byron Katie says there's. three fingers pointing this way. And so. I realized if I had a judgment about. even say a friend, right? Well, gosh, I. needed to look at Is that Is that. judgment really about them or is it. about me? And so often the thing I might. be picking on in my mind about them was. actually about me. And so I had to learn. to say to myself, okay, what is it in. myself that I don't like? Um And can I.

just be okay with that? And so, boy, I. believe me, I've made so many mistakes. My My kids tease me all the time. I'm. terrible with people's names. And yet, it's a sign of respect, I think, if you. use somebody's name. They have endless. stories about how I made up, you know, how I messed up their high school. friends' names. But it's okay. I was trying to be. respectful. I'm human, and it's you And. I also think. the more I can humanize myself in front. of other people, the more I take down. the barrier between me and them. And we.

can see we are just humans, right? Mhm. Absolutely. Absolutely. What do you Do you judge yourself? Do. you later say to yourself, oh, I should. have said this, I should have said that? I think it took me a long time to get to. a point of giving myself grace. There. you go. And not making myself feel that I had to. be anyone else apart from myself. And that the perfect performance. wasn't actually satisfying to me. It.

just gave me. more to have to live up to. And so when I first started doing what I. do, it felt like in every room and every. conversation I had to say something. magical and miraculous and profound. And often I'd say something very basic. yet it would feel that way and sometimes. I'd say the most profound thing and it. would be seen as basic. And I started to. realize very quickly that if you were. spending most of the time in your head. just trying to figure out how to.

be a certain way or come across a. certain way, which is what all of us do. Sure. You actually lose the opportunity. to be present and have the experience. and probably say something and hear. things that actually have an impact on. other people because you're actually. there. And so it was learning to trust. myself. and trust that whether I knew the right. thing to say or I didn't know that that. was perfect just as it was. But I think.

that that grace is something we have to. develop and cultivate and build because. it's so natural. I was just at. I was just at Goldman Sachs on Monday. We were doing a talk at Goldman Sachs. and it was all around. the benefits of mindfulness mixed with a. high performance culture. And so it's like how does that work? If. you're a high performing trader, what. does it mean to practice mindfulness and. grace? There's not a lot of space for. grace if you're losing $20 million or. whatever else it may be and $200.

million. It could be so much more. So what does that look like to give. yourself grace? And I think we equate. grace to weakness. We think if I'm kind to myself, then. that's weakness. And actually I found that guilt blocks. growth. Oh, sure. That guilt doesn't make you grow. Guilt. can maybe make you feel bad for a second. and push you in the right direction, but. over a sustained period of time, guilt. will drain you. Totally. And so I think grace does what guilt. can't. It says, "I'm going to give some.

space to where I'm at so that I can get. back on the horse." Whereas if I just. guilt myself, I'm going to keep pushing. myself down into the ground. I'll never. get back up. My thinking on guilt is that sometimes. it can point to where you're off of your. integrated self, and it's very important. to pay attention to that. Agreed. Um so for me, when it comes up. in silence, I try to really look at, "Okay, was I off of of who I want to. be?". Grace is one of my absolute favorite. words, and it's something that in.

difficult situations I actually pray. for. Like I I will pray for just. bring some grace to this moment. Whatever that means. And I think so. often, again, I think sometimes if we're. trying to say the right thing or do the. right thing or not say the wrong thing, we're kind of actually in that egoic. part of ourselves as a point as opposed. to saying, "Just let grace come through. Whatever is meant to be, let it happen. in this moment." And I will say.

for me, because I have traveled a lot to. these rural settings, low-income. countries, and communities, I will often. pray for grace before I go in and for. the conversation to try and drop any. judgments I have so I can just meet the. person where they are at and they can. meet me and I can see is there something. that can come out of this of beauty, a. learning that maybe we can work on or. they can work on or um but yet grace is. actually one of my absolute favorite. words. Well, I love that. How how hard.

was it to give yourself grace through. the divorce? Because I feel like that. feels like for a lot of people can feel. like one of the biggest failures, challenges, stresses. It's one of the. hardest transitions and changes that you. go through in life. How hard was it at that time to give. yourself grace? What did that look like? Yeah. I am. that was the hardest thing I had ever. been through in my life. Let me be. really clear about that. Um Why? Well, you have an image. I had I I thought I.

was going to be married for life. I. thought, you know, I'd be married 50. plus years. And so all of a sudden you. see that. even despite very, very much work. um and and counseling that. that what you had doesn't actually exist. and that. for me I couldn't go forward. That I. just there wasn't enough trust any. longer. Um and so it wasn't something I. wished for. I certainly didn't think I. would be in my late 50s and be divorced,

you know? Like I didn't It was okay that. people were divorced. I didn't have some. problem with that, but I didn't know. that was going to be me. And. it was incredibly challenging. I I I. I I've never cried so much in my whole. life. Um. and I prayed a lot for grace. For grace. for myself, for grace for my children, for grace for the situation that we. would somehow get through this as a. family behind the scenes and hope to God.

it wouldn't be public before we were. finished because I knew that would be a. whole 'nother thing. And I think. sometimes the only way I got through was. because I do have a faith um. and thank God I had close, close friends. who I could talk to on the hardest days. and a good therapist, but um it is not. something I would wish on any family. It. is a very, very difficult thing to go. through um cuz you're pulling apart. something that has been tightly woven. together and that you believed in.

Um and I will say though on the other. side there can be a lot of beauty, you. know, once you get through the rough. patches and things finally kind of calm. down for the whole family and everybody. on the other side. Um, there can be a lot of beauty. So, I. never thought I'd be in my late 50s. I'm. about to turn 60 and be single again, right? Who Who expects that? But I. didn't, but hey, it's pretty great, too, you know? And. um. So, I I look for I just.

I look in the hardest of hard times I. say to myself, just pray for grace and. know there'll be something that comes. out of this struggle. I'd read a book. years ago, many years ago, um, called Awakening Joy by James Baraz. Baraz and Shoshana Alexander. And one of. the things I'd learned from that book, I. carried it around in my briefcase for. years or my tote bag, is that you can. hold joy and sadness side by side. I had. somehow gotten to that point in life, you know, in my 40s where I had thought,

"Oh, there's these amazing joy moments. or these really sad low moments." No, you can hold both side by side and. realize that even when you're really. sad, there's going to be joy again. It. might take 10 minutes, it might take 10. months, it might take 10 years, but. there's joy and and both exist. And um. I started to learn to be able to hold. that duality. Yeah, it's it's so. interesting to me. I was I was speaking. to someone yesterday who'd. just broken up with a 5-year. relationship. Uh not not married, just a. partner.

And they were saying to me, they were. like, "I. I know there'll be better days, but I. can't see how right now. Like I know it, but I can't see how right now.". And I think that that discomfort is. probably one of the most. piercing emotions that you can have. because sometimes people even go as far. as there'll never be another good day. But sometimes we can see there's a good. day, but we don't know when. Walk me through the emotion of when you. know something is ending and your vision.

of what something was is crumbling. and you don't know what that next phase. looks like. Like walk us through the. emotional. navigation of that because I feel like. that's what so many people struggle. with. People it's it's one thing being. like, okay, this is ending now, but. there's so much when that penny drops. almost like when that emotion drops from. your head into your heart of like, okay, I know this is not working out anymore, but then it kind of goes here and you. go, oh, that.

that's really uncomfortable and then you. actually have to follow through with it. Walk us through navigating that. What. does that take? I have had to learn the last 10 years I. would say um. to really feel deeply feel my emotions. in my body. Like that emotion you just. described from here to it's not working. to drops as you said into your heart and. I got to make a change. It literally. felt like a stab in the heart. Like I. could feel it here. Like uh. and so.

I. um. I just knew it was something it was such. a such an enormous consequential. decision that I needed to take time with. it. And I needed to be kind to myself. I. didn't want to I wanted to minimize if I. could the pain to those around me, but. it's just it's gut-wrenching. That's. probably the best feels like a stab in. the heart at least to me. Stab in the. heart and gut-wrenching cuz it's not. what you want to do, but that's when I. think your friends come in and they are.

the lights in the moments of grace and. they can hold out for you and remind you. the hope on the other side. You're going. to be okay. I knew I was going to be. okay, but I'm sure there's going to be. something beautiful on the other side. even though none of us know what that. is. What's something you know now that. you wish you knew then? You will find happiness again. You know, you can you can feel like that. days. where I thought I don't know if I'll. ever be happy again. I just I don't. know. You will absolutely find happiness and. you'll find happiness in sometimes.

really unexpected ways or unexpected. places, right? And I don't know, at least you learn at. least for me I learned to appreciate the. world more, appreciate my friends more, my family more, being in nature. Yeah, so you'll be happy again. You just. can't feel it in the moment. Thank you. Yeah, and I'm. I I really hope that everyone who's. listening and watching that resonates. with them of being able to find that. grace, being able to navigate those. challenging emotions, feeling it in. their body because.

yeah, it's just when you hear someone. say it when they're actually going. through it, it's it's. yeah, it's one of those things where. even your closest friends don't even. know what the right things to say. because. And sometimes there isn't the right. thing to say. I mean, it's it's also. like when someone passes away, right? Sometimes you just need somebody to walk. with you or somebody to just cry with. you, you know? And. and there are no words.

Um. But I always know too when my friends. step in in those moments, I will step in. for them or for somebody else, right? Later on. And so again, I I learned through the. process that you actually have to accept. help, right? That wasn't so great at. that. I was good at helping other. people, but not so good at accepting it. myself and I had to learn to accept that. help cuz I it isn't something I could go. through alone. You know, I think. sometimes we make the mistake in the. world of thinking. you know, I'll soldier on. I can do this. alone. No, I mean, we can only really do.

things in community and it takes. community to feel held and secure and. safe enough to move forward in whatever. it is we're doing, our professional. pursuit, our love life, our parenting of. our children if we're going to do it. well, it takes community. Yeah, what was. the most recent thing you asked help. for? I was struggling with something about a. week ago and so it's personal though and. so I asked a friend to go for a walk. Mhm. I just said, "Could we Could we. walk and talk? Like I have something I.

really need to. to work through here." And um yeah, so. I'll pick up a phone, call a friend, say, "Can we go for a walk?" Or I'll. text somebody, right? Um and you know, we have ways of telling each other, "Can. you drop everything?" versus "Okay, this. can wait till tomorrow." You know, but. for sure I do it all the time and I hope. I I hope I'm there and have the backs of. of my friends as well. Mhm. So. wonderful. Um. I wanted to dive into some of the issues. that you're focusing right now. through the work that you think are the.

biggest issues facing the world from. your perspective. If you had to. if you could narrow it down to three. things that you're like, "These are the. three things we're trying to solve right. now." which would have scaled impact, what would they be? Mhm. And what are. they? I'd say it's. really one thing. And it's. making sure that women and people of. color. can walk into their full power. everywhere in the world. And. we need to get women and people of color.

to all places in society, whether that's. in politics because they make different. policies. State houses, Congress, parliaments. Um. we need to make sure they're empowered. financially. We you know, we do not. invest in women-led businesses or people. of color businesses the way we do in. male businesses, white men's businesses. That's just the truth in the VC. community. And then culturally, we need to have. more of those stories come forward.

I feel like if we don't advance the. world on behalf of everybody else, we're. going to just keep falling backwards. We're going to keep falling backwards. into these potholes that we have. And so. I would like to see, you know, more. women be able to step in their full. power everywhere in the world. And it. does, it's hard. It means breaking down. social norms in certain places. It means. investing in women-led businesses. It. means thinking about things differently. in the workplace. Um.

And but I think the world would be so. much better off if the people making our. policies looked like the. rest of society, all of society. So, in. the US, that means, you know, having. more Latinas who are there, more people. of color who are making policy, more. women making policy. We would just. reflect more all of society instead of a. certain echelon of society. And you know, it's still, for instance, just to give you one example, I go places in the world and people just.

kind of scratch their head and say, "The US has no paid family medical leave. policy? No family leave policy? Like, don't you care about your children?" You. know, and and then you go to a place. like Sweden or Norway who've had it for. 30 years. And the men It's not just the. women, the men take time off at the. birth of their child. Well, guess what? Then they participate more, they're more. involved with the child, things are more. balanced in the home. And so, but it's. because we don't have enough.

women in our US Congress and Senate and. other places to be able to create those. policies, right? We have them in 13. states now, but we don't have a federal. policy yet. That just shouldn't be, not. in this day of of working parents where. most couples, both parents are working. if they have kids. Mhm. And systemically, what does it actually. take, like to actually achieve that? Like, what is the What is the actual. work that's to go on behind the scenes. to make that happen? Because I think we. only ever hear about it if it becomes. news. Like you're saying, if someone.

gets voted in or someone gets a position. of power, but what's happening years and. years and days and days behind the. scenes to make that happen. Like what. does that actually take? It means there. are lots of. groups and that organize and work on. this, but it means funding women's. political campaigns, supporting them when they get harassed. on the campaign trail, giving them the. tools so that when they get into these. halls of power, they know how to make. good policy, right? Um in the past, we.

just have not done that. We haven't done. it at scale. So, that's one example. Um. in the venture capital space, it means. really looking at women's businesses and. seeing just cuz they don't look like the. other businesses we've seen, these are. valuable businesses or people of color, but we have to break down the bias that. has been there that says, "Oh, well, you don't take enough risk or I've never. seen a business like this before or. maybe you you're not trained up in the. right way." We have all these sort of.

biased excuses instead of saying, "No, let's fund these businesses." And then. what happens is you'll have. women and people of color if you have. them in all places in society at the. top, it means. a young woman can look up and say, "Oh, there's three dozen archetypes of women. who are politicians. There's three dozen. archetypes of women CEOs. I don't want. to be like those six, but I want to be. like one of those two." Young men can. look up and see three dozen archetypes.

in politics, three dozen archetypes as. CEO, three dozen archetypes on Wall. Street, right? And go, "I don't want to. be like those guys, but I want to be. like those." We're just not there yet. And so, we've got to invest more in this. if we're going to create true lasting. change in the country. Mhm. Yeah, I. know. I I can. I mean, definitely speaking from the. person of color point of view, like I. can I never was I was never raised with. that belief system that there were any. things that were outside of my. possibility. My parents were very.

Uh Uh, my parents never made us feel. that our color of skin would hold us. back. And so we worked hard, we pushed. forward, and it was only until much, much later, probably more recently, where I started to realize certain. differences. And it was almost as if. I. not that I'd hidden my not that they. were hidden from me or that I wasn't. aware of them, it was just I started to. recognize how differently. even sometimes I was.

criticized or looked at versus. counterparts who who may not have that. Like I would I'd often hear things like, you know, well, Jay's using his culture of meditation to. make it spread across the world, and. that's watered down, and it's not the. truth of his tradition, or whatever it. may be. And I was like, well, wait a minute, but. this is my tradition. Like this is I. grew up with this. I'm only sharing. what's actually from my home country, and where my parents came from. Um, how. fascinating that there have been other.

people who have taken that culture and. spread it all across the world and never. had to deal with that um, feedback, whereas that's feedback that I have to. deal with. Uh, and it sounds very random. and and niche, but that point being the. same that sometimes you're held to a. different standard. You are. There's. just even even though even though it is. your own. Totally. And it and they're. just it's bias, or it's people. projecting onto you because they haven't. seen somebody like you before. Like and. and so they'll and they'll be I think a.

lot as a woman I'll say a lot of times. it's these sort of little indirect ways. that things come in. No, you can't. No, you shouldn't. No, we've never seen one. like you before. And so I think if we. you know, somewhat I was lucky I got. protected being in all girls' school, but it wasn't until I went out to the. workforce, and I hear even men talk. about these days. Look, I've educated my. daughters and sons equally, you know, in. schools, but then I send them out into. the workforce, and my son sort of soars. pretty easily and my daughter just keeps. hitting these barriers, right? And so.

those are some of the things we have to. look at as a society and take down. Have you ever had anything from your own. kids that that felt like that where you. like, oh no, like Less so them. specifically, but their friends for. sure. For sure. Particularly their. friends of color. Um and. my sense of that was always just to. support them. And tell those kids, you. can be anything you want to be. Just cuz. that white person tells you no, uh-uh. I.

see you. I You've been in my house. I. see you. I know what you're capable of. Keep going, right? Or Or also I think, you know, some. men are more networked in the world. They're They're more natural networks. they connect into. So, again, sending. girls out or kids of color and. connecting them into our networks so. they get that first internship, so the. corporation sees them as like, oh my. god, they are talented, right? But we. they don't There aren't those natural. networks to connect them into today or.

we have to push harder to get them in, right? And I think all of those kinds of. things can help. What are the top three. values that you wanted your kids to. embody that you felt were real. priorities for them to operate as humans. in the world today? I wanted them to be kind. I wanted them to. develop their talents, whatever that. was, because I I said to them, you have. some inherent talent that is up to you. to figure out that you can give to the. world, whatever field that is in.

And number three, you've been lucky to. grow up in the United States and to grow. up in a situation where you didn't have. to worry about paying for your education. or your health care or your housing. Like you are lucky. So, you you have. some You have to give back to the world. So, just as my parents said to me, you. will be college going, my kids got the. message is, you will give back to the. world. Now, I've always said to them, have your own career first, you know, know what you're good at, but at some. point you are expected to give back. And.

um. I've actually been pleasantly surprised. that all of them, even in their 20s, have figured out how to give back um in. different ways. And um again, it goes. back to that. thing that I learned in high school, which is we can all, one of us can. affect somebody else's life, right? If. you grow up in the United States, you. you are lucky. Even in a tough. circumstance in the United States, you're lucky compared to way people grow. up in many other countries. Mhm. How did. you guide them through the process of.

growing up with such famous parents and. and known parents? Because I've. that's a really hard thing. Like to grow. up where everyone knows who your parents. are, everyone recognizes your name, everyone. How how how have you helped them. navigate that? Because I can imagine. that's not easy at all. It was it was. difficult for them, and I knew it was. going to be difficult. When they were. young, um well, two things. One is we. didn't have the TV on in the house, so. they literally didn't know, in fact, their father was kind of who he was in. the world. He was just dad in the house,

you know? And I was not out speaking in. the world that much then, and so we. enrolled them in their schools under my. name, my maiden name French, and it. would give us 2 to 3 weeks where I would. be dropping them off at school, and they. were just like everybody else. Nobody. knew their dad was who he was. And it. wasn't until he showed up that people. went, "Oh, those are his kids?" But by. then they were already in the school, and they were just we were seen as a. normal family. was done intentionally. A super intentionally. And I sat would.

sit down with the administration before. the school year and talk about the. values we had, and I expected them to be. treated like everybody else's kids, and. if my kids were acting out, I wanted to. know about it, or if they were acting. wealthy, I I I I went to school I went. to university with other wealthy kids. and I wasn't. I saw some of those kids. acted. Those weren't going to be my. kids. So, that's how they started elementary. school and then as they got to middle. school and high school, we would have. conversations with them about would you.

like to keep your mom's maiden name or. would you like to adopt Gates? And. different ones chose different things of. the three of them at different times. But, we just didn't make a big deal. about what we were out doing in the. world. You know, their world they were. very protected by their schools and by. our home life. Yes, they were grew up in. a very fancy house. But, you know, they had chores. They. knew that they were they had an. allowance. We didn't just buy them. something. And when they finally got to. the age where they had a phone, if they. broke their phone, there were rules.

about how that got replaced. I We just. didn't give them a new phone, right? So, they grew up with that and I think it. taught them the value of money. It. taught them that, okay, they could see. when when also when I was out speaking. more, they knew why. They could see what. their dad was doing, especially in. philanthropy. I had an, "Oh, my parents. are living out their values in the. world." Um but, they were very protected. by their schools and I think that served. them incredibly well. How old were they when they got their. first phone? Uh-huh. So, my oldest.

daughter, the conversation was about a. flip phone and that was in fifth grade. and she finally got it in sixth. Okay. And the difference between when. she went through high school then versus. my youngest, which was six years later. through the same high school, two girls. cuz the son in the middle. But, the two. girls the difference between not having. social media in high school and my. oldest went through and then my youngest. having social media by middle school. just profoundly different in terms of. parenting. Um it was just it was like a.

switch went on and even the adults in. the school having a phone, it was just. so different. But, we did have rules. early on. Every, you know, they plugged. their phones outside their room at night. where I could see them. And when I'd. wake up at night and go look, that phone. better be in the place that it was. supposed to be. Now, whether they snuck. it back to the room for a few minutes. and brought it back, I've now learned a. couple of them did that. But, um you. know, we had rules about those things. And I think that that served them well.

Mhm. How do we How do we create a. culture of giving in service, Melinda? Because I think. some people would look and say, "Oh, it's easy to do it when you have. billions to give away." Or, you know, millions to give away, or whatever else. it may be. And I remember in in my spiritual. tradition, one statement that I always. used to love is. uh God doesn't see how much you give, God sees how much you hold back. Mhm. And it was this idea of, you know, I I. and I've always appreciated that. sentiment because.

and I found So, I had parents who were. very giving, even though our household. income for me growing up was no more. than like 50,000 lb. And my parents were. still very charitable in in the way they. could Mhm. And it set a really good tone. for me. And then when I lived as a monk, we did a lot of service work, and that's. continued in my my life afterwards as. well. And that continues to be an. important part of my wife and I's life. of wanting to give back, wanting to. serve. But, it's I think it's. it's hard because. where so many people are struggling.

financially, so many people are. struggling economically, there are. far less opportunities that people have. to even take care of themselves. The. prices of rent you know, soaring through. the roof, like health care in this. country, of course, is you know, the. biggest concern. And so, I think what. you were saying earlier is that people. who have opportunities and have the. privilege to give should give. But, I. think often we can sit and think of, "Well, when I have a million or a. billion or whatever, maybe then I'll. give." How How do we shift that? Like, what does that look like? I think you. can There are different ways to give.

You can give your time, your energy, or. your money, or any combination of those. So, I think there's value in high school. kids and even middle schools going out. and volunteering. You know, my two of my. three children worked on the Teen Crisis. Text Line. And boy, I mean, they really. had to learn how to counsel, what to do, they had to show up, but they learned a. lot about, you know, other teens in. crisis. They benefited from it, too. I. had one of my kids worked out in the.

community in a homeless shelter, right? And was helping with the food services. So, there are so many ways to help in. our own backyard, and I always tell. people start there because you'll get. attached to something and you'll start. to see that your time absolutely can. make a difference in somebody's life, right? And even if you can't give much. money or at the end of the year you can. give 50 or $100 to that organization, it. does help. Um and so I I just encourage.

people to start somewhere. Even if it. feels really small to them when they. start, you learn something from all. those experiences. Yeah, and I. definitely found that. I think service. is one of those things that. and and I, you know, there's. it can be seen as the most selfless or. the most selfish thing because it gives. you it's the best learning experience of. learning. about the challenges that exist, learning that when you're part of. solving a problem, you feel the solution is closer.

Right? I think like you feel like there. is a light at the end of the tunnel. There is a method. For sure. And, you. know, service has given me so many gifts. in my life and therefore I'll never say. it's been selfless because I've gained. so much from it. Uh but the biggest. thing it's helped me understand is just. that, yeah, when you feel you're part of. solving a problem, it feels manageable. It feels possible. And seeing one person's life change is. miraculous and I think if we see it as. statistics or dollars or numbers, then.

it will never feel like enough because. numbers will never satisfy or make us. feel like we won, because we know. there's more. But witnessing change through the eyes. of one individual, I mean, nothing can. compare to that. And you you'd have no. idea how many lives you've changed just. through that impact. And. the great opportunity you gain to even. have something to give, it's a privilege. to you. It's such a Someone's giving you. the opportunity to serve. They've served you by giving you the. opportunity. I think we often feel like.

we're helping others. But I've found so often that I'm. fortunate enough that I'm even in that. position that I can give that to. someone. Yeah. And and you learn from. those people, too. You learn culturally, you learn things that you wouldn't have. known even about yourself, right? There's a quote I love that I used in. actually my high school graduation. speech. It was by Ralph Waldo Emerson. And it ends by saying, "To know. that even one life has breathed easier.

because you have lived, that is to have succeeded.". And so Well. even for me, even though I was. goal-oriented and I wanted to do this. and I wanted to do that, my definition. of success was if somebody's breathed. easier on this planet because I've. lived, then my life was worth it, right? And you know, if you talk to anybody who. does hospice at end of life or if you've. gotten to walk the end of life journey, which I've. been fortunate enough to do with two.

people in very close, you realize that, you know, people want to know at the end. of their life that they were loved by. their family and friends, and that they. loved their family and friends in. return, and that their life had some. meaning, whatever that meaning is for. them. Um. and so, you know, I I often think in the. US we have our definition of success. wrong. You know, we look at these people. who've made it in industry or made X. amount of money, but no, success is like. think of that teacher who.

if we all talk about like who who had. the most impact in our lives, quite. often people will talk about their. parents or a teacher or a coach. Totally. And so think about it, a coach. in a school doesn't make much money. Mhm. But he or she has an enormous. impact on the students that come through. that high school. Absolutely. and play that sport. And so. to me there's enormous value in that and. those are the kinds of things we should. be holding up in society. Mhm. I've I've.

had this dream and maybe we'll speak. about it another time. Uh but I've had this dream for a long. time in regards to that because I grew. up in a home where I remember. you know, where my extended family or. family members would always want to wait. for the Times rich list, like that was. published every year. And obviously then it was the Forbes. rich list became the new thing and then. now we have the Time 100 list, whatever. it may be. And I always dreamed and I still have. this dream that I want to do it one day. is I want to create a service list. Mhm.

And I'd love a service list to be. published every year of individuals and. groups of people who are doing the most. service and not only would I like it to. be a list of the people who give the. most money, I'd like them to nominate. someone. who works on the ground to be nominated. to be on that list. Totally. because of the unknown names that you. know, not famous people basically who. are doing amazing work around the world. that I'm sure you know many of.

And I've always had this dream that we. could publish a service list every year. because I feel like if I grew up in a. home where there was a service list on. my table every year, I feel what we. reward in society is what we repeat. Mhm. And I don't see service being. rewarded or. seen as an achievement yet or it's seen. as the achievement of a few. And until it becomes something that is. accessible and open to many, we'll keep looking at the rich list and. being blown away by that and thinking.

that's the goal of life. It's It's hard. to change that if the only list that. every major publication is publishing is. the wealth list. How will we ever shift what achievement. is in the society? So, anyway. That is. that is a really. good idea because. and again, the people doing the real. work are the people who are giving of. themselves and in service. And as you. said, you see change, even change at a. grassroots level. We all get so. overwhelmed by these global problems,

and they are overwhelming. But again, the only thing that's ever changed the. world are groups of individuals coming. together, and we seem to forget that, you know? So, yeah, a service list would. be amazing. Okay, I know I know about a. hundred people I could put on that list. Amazing. I love it. Well, let's find a. way of figuring it out. Melinda, it's been such a joy talking to. you today. You've been so kind and. gracious with your time. Uh we end every. On Purpose episode with a Fast Five, a. Final Five, which have to be answered in. one word to one sentence maximum.

Okay. So, Melinda French Gates, these are your. Final Five. The first question is, what. is the best advice you've ever heard or. received? Be yourself. Second question, what is the worst. advice you've ever heard or received? Act like this other person. Third question. What is a lesson you learned the hard. way? I learned to be a better parent when I. stopped and would really listen to my.

kids. Instead of being dictatorial, when I would stop and listen, I was so. much better parent. Question number. four, what is a message you want to. leave behind? That there is so much potential in. everybody, and. we need to unlock that potential. Break. down the barriers and the biases there, so we just can unlock all that amazing. potential. And fifth and final question, which we. ask to every guest who's ever been on.

the show, if you could create one law. that everyone in the world had to. follow, what would it be? That in for every. place in life where you see a man in a. position of power. that he would be accompanied by a woman. or a person of color. Beautiful. Mhm. Melinda French Gates, thank you so much for being with us here. on On Purpose today. I think everyone. who's been listening or watching, wherever you are in the world, please. share with me and Melinda your greatest.

takeaways, the insights that stuck with. you, the messages that you'll be passing. on and sharing with your family and your. friends. There were so many great. insights today. I hope you find your. spiritual community. I hope you find. your counsel of wise advisers. I hope. that you recognize that imposter. syndrome can be beautiful and can be. powerful and that perfectionism is. something that we can learn to embrace. in order to recognize that our. imperfections is what makes us human, it's what makes us real, it's what makes. us feel like we can connect with others.

Thank you so much to all of you and a. big thank to Melinda for being here. today again and thank you so much. Honestly, this was a wonderful. conversation. Thank you. Thanks for having me. This is great. I. really enjoyed it. Thank you, Melinda. If you enjoyed this podcast, you're. going to love my conversation with. Michelle Obama, where she opens up on. how to stay with your partner when. they're changing and the four check-ins. you should be doing in your. relationship. We also talk about how to. deal with relationships when they're.

under stress. If you're going through. something right now with your partner or. someone you're seeing, this is the. episode for you. No wonder our kids are struggling. We. have a new technology and we've just. taken it in hook, line, and sinker. And. we have to be mindful for our kids. They'll just be thumbing through this. stuff, you know, their their minds never. sleeping.