MALALA: The TRUTH Behind The Attack

The number one health and wellness. podcast. >> Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the.

only Jay Shetty. You open the book with "I'll never know. who I was supposed to be. because the world decided who you were. Mhm. before you got to become." Talk to. me about. how that felt the first time you. understood that. I was. in a coma when. so much was happening about my life. and my story was spreading around the.

world. I remember my last day of school in. Pakistan. I was 15 years old. I was. hoping for the next day to be a normal. day. And. then something terrible happened. And I wake up in a hospital in. Birmingham in the UK. And I find myself on a hospital bed. recovering from injuries, going through. severe pains, trying to figure out what. had happened. And. you know, I still had not even seen what.

was out there on on the media about me. You know, I was like, you know, "Oh, what does this new life mean? Do I take on this new journey. uh. in a new place? Um and how do I recover. from the trauma that I have faced?". I I knew that um. that the only way I can actually have. some hope in life is by dedicating my. life to girls' education. So, I took on. this journey to become a girls'. education activist. I was defined as a.

brave, courageous activist. Um, you. know, when I learned more about how I. was described in the world, I said, "Okay, wow, maybe uh, okay, this is what. it means when you survive a a terrorist. attack. This is how you're supposed to. live your life. Um, and and and there's. not much you can do. You cannot go back. to the old life. You cannot expect a. normal life because you are now invited. to these big events and gatherings and. you're receiving awards and you're. getting titles. You have to live up to it now. So, I said, "Okay, it means I cannot.

have a normal life. I cannot be that. normal student. I cannot feel the same. love, um, or. just have like that normal life as a as. a teenager, you know, as a as a young. woman. Um, so I I sort of embraced it. You. know, you sort of internalize it and you. embrace it, what whatever people say. about you. Then you then you begin to. live up to that. Yeah, I think it's it's. so And like I said, it's so interesting. because. what you experienced and we'll we'll get.

to that. is so. different and distant from the. experience. Yet, when you say those. words of. "I felt like I had to live up to how. people saw me." I think that's a very. human thing that that we all experience, except yours was on the world stage. >> Yeah. It's it's important to, um, to. share that uh, we begin to internalize. it. Mhm. I I started saying that it's a. sense of responsibility that I feel.

because I want myself to live up to this. idea of being a brave and courageous. activist advocating for girls around the. world. I cannot be scared. I cannot have. fear, and I need to stay committed to. making a change happen. And at the same. time, like, I'm 15 years old. I have to. be studying at the same time. Um, I have. to learn so much and and be and try to. be a normal student um, and then also. maintain like writing a book and giving. speeches and, you know, like receiving a.

Nobel Peace Prize at age 17. I remember I was still in my school. and, uh, and that morning my team asked. me if I wanted to stay back and. like prepare a media statement just in. case. And I said, "Are you guys crazy? Do you think a school student should be. receiving a Nobel Peace Prize?" So, I. went to my school. I was in my chemistry. class. My school's deputy head teacher. walked in and called me outside and. informed me that I had won the Nobel.

Peace Prize. I was, like, shocked. I said thank you. to her. I gave short remarks to to. everybody in the school to just thank. them and talk about the importance of. education. Then I went back to, like, my. physics class and I I completed my. school, actually. I said, "I'm not going. to do any interviews or anything. I'm. going to finish my school.". You know, that day I felt that so many, like, students sort of looked at me and. I felt really noticed that day. because in this new school I was a very.

quiet person and I thought, you know, I. I I thought like everybody just saw me. as an activist and nobody really wanted. to be friends with me. Um, but the next day when everything was. back to normal, I felt that most people. turned their faces away and, uh, it just. went back to like that normal day where, uh, I just I just, you know, wanted to. have my make I I wanted to have friends. and it and it, you know, wasn't there. Yeah, do you do you feel. like it that made you disconnect and.

distant from your friends and people. around you? Like, how did it affect you? Yeah, I I don't really, you know, blame. the students at that school. It was an. all-girls school. It was in a completely new country now, different language, different culture. A. lot of the girls had already made. friends, so I was a late comer. And they had heard about me in the news. They had heard the story, and I think. they were feeling awkward um in how to.

approach me. And at the same time, I was. also so nervous in in starting a. conversation, and I actually missed my. old life. I just wanted to be the girl I. was in Pakistan, mischievous, exploring. new things, adventurous, chatting with friend all the time, and. and like copying or like mimicking. people's accents, and. talking about like, you know, gossip and. all of those things. And I just thought. maybe like.

maybe maybe that's that part of my life. is uh. is gone. Mhm. Yeah, I love the part. where you say, "They made me into a. mythical heroine. Sometimes the. absurdity of it made me laugh." You. said, "Growing up in Mingora, I was a. troublemaker. Even on my best day, I was. not the reticent saint that everyone now. claimed I was." I know. Like I That's I was laughing when I read. it, but then feeling sad because Yeah. That has real consequences for you, but. it almost made me laugh, and I was like,

"Oh, wow, like Malala, like the Malala, sees herself as a mischievous, you know, funny person who's, you know, a troublemaker." Yeah. Like tell me. about that version of you. Like take us. back to that version of you. In. Pakistan, I was, you know, still. exploring who I was as a person. And in. school, I was very active. I wanted to. participate in every competition. I was. giving speeches and and doing debates,

and I was also like trying to sing. I. don't know, like I. like with a terrible voice, I was. also doing that. My friends and I still. joke about it that you know, we just. loved to be doing something all the. time. Education is a privilege. We knew. that it's not something that every girl. has access to. I thought I was lucky. that my father was so supportive of. allowing me to be in school. So, I. valued and treasured every moment at.

school. And you know, you hear people complain. about being in school and they can't. wait for it to finish. It was the other. way around for us. We wanted to stay in. school for as long as we could. Because. when girls exposure is limited and and. when you live in a patriarchal society. where you are cannot really leave your. home. So, you you know, you are supposed. to stay inside the four walls of a. house. Uh so, school becomes that place of. safety for you where you can explore. things, but at the same time like, you.

know, you are you are in a safe place, but you can. explore the things that you love and. enjoy. So, we we loved our time in. school. And I just wish that I could have all of. that in the UK as well in this new. school. And somehow it was very. challenging to like make it happen. I. was trying. I was like participating in. in almost everything that I could. I was. signing up for like a 200 m race and. then I was trying to. be part of the debating society because. I wanted to make friends. Not that I. wanted to.

add more to my like personal statement. or wanted to be an excellent student. Like truly deeply, all I wanted was to. get an opportunity where I could like. talk to friends. Mhm. Back in Pakistan. when you were saying that. you already had this gratitude to be in. education, how did that develop at such a young. age? Because I feel that's often what. develops with perspective. How did you. have it at such an early age to. recognize the value of education? What. had you seen women go through.

or what had you seen that inspired you. to want to value education? The scenario of a girl without an. education was not something that we had. to imagine. We were actually seeing it. right in front of our eyes. We had the stories of our aunts, of our. mothers, of our cousins, of our siblings. who without an education missed out on. the opportunity to have a future that. they chose. My own mother.

could not learn. It was very uncommon in. the village for a girl to be even into. school. So when she was admitted into a. primary school and she was the only girl. in that classroom, she sold her books. because she said there's no point no. other girl is going to a school and she. got some candies in return. She never. saw classroom after that. It was then. years later when. you know when she finally was. like married to my dad and my dad is has. been very supportive of like women's.

rights and and girls education, she. started relearning again. So when I when I you know when I was. seeing how women and girls are. asking for one thing and that is the. right to learn, I knew that it was truly. a privilege to be in school. But I think you know the moment when I. realized that this was not something. that girls can access so easily and it. can be taken away. was when the Taliban took over. What was. different about your father's experience. that made him so aware of this? What was.

what was different about his upbringing. or. the way he saw the world? You know it's really hard to answer. because. so my dad and his brother both received. their education while their five sisters. could not. And my dad took a different commitment. that. when he has a daughter, he will educate. her while his brother did not do the. same. So you know you could be in the.

in the exact same environment and you. can. read and understand it very differently. than the other person and you can make. different decisions. So, for my dad it. was this simple dream where he. wanted girls to have exactly the same. rights as boys. And he always questioned why his sisters. could not be in school while he could. be. And he knew that for things to change. for women and girls, men have to change. and do better.

So, he became. a feminist father before he had even. heard the word feminism. And he usually says that don't ask me. what I did, but ask me what I did not. do. I did not clip her wings. So, he. believes in the autonomy, in the. in the power of women and girls. He says. like we don't need to do anything, we. just need to take a step back and give. them space. So, my father was an amazing father. I. consider myself lucky and I remind.

people that. my story is not unique. So many other. girls in my hometown wanted to speak out. against the Taliban oppression for their. right to education, but their brothers. or their fathers stopped them. The only. thing that's different in my story is. that my father did not stop me. Wow, what a beautiful relationship you. have and a gratitude that you have for. him and. incred- And and I couldn't agree with. you more. There's. it's amazing that even for for a woman.

to gain access to education, sadly that. requires the permission of a man in that. space. Yes, and it's you know, like it it is. irritating. You're like, why is that. way? But it is a reality. If you live in. a patriarchal. society, we have to acknowledge that men. are in power, they have influence. So, we have to be engaging them as well. And. it takes a lot of time to change things. Right now when I look at um our.

community in in Pakistan, the village that my parents are from, a. lot of things are changing now because. when when a few fathers step up and they. redefine what it means to be a good. father, other fathers follow their footsteps. And my father is spreading this message. that true honor lies in standing up for. women and girls when their rights are. taken away. And. and and you can be fulfilling your role. as a father when you empower your.

daughters. When they have equal rights, when they fulfill their dreams, not that. you marry them off. Like that's not true. fatherhood. You give them the education. so they choose their future for. themselves. Absolutely. Well said. It's. before I look forward to meeting your. dad one day, too. >> Yes. You'd love him. Yeah, that's it. It's amazing. It's it's truly. incredible. I can't can't imagine how. Was it challenging for him as well to do. that? And for the men in. Very challenging. >> like I can't imagine the judgment and. the kind of criticism. >> Yes.

I mean, I remember one time I was. supposed to speak at this press. conference and my male cousin was asked. to help me get to the press conference. And I was wearing a headscarf, but I was. not covering my face. So, my cousin just was like really like. irritated by that because most women are. expected to cover their faces when. they're in public, especially when they. like reach adulthood. But I was still. like very little and I just did not want. to cover my face.

And I remember that cousin just going to. my dad and telling him that, you know, Malala should like cover her. face and it's just, you know, such a. shame to the family's name. And my dad. told him to mind his own business. And told him to like just basically like. it's none of your business what she. does. It's her choice whatever she wants. to wear. Um so, in those moments, you know, you. do reflect and wonder what if your dad. had not spoken out for you, things would. have been different. So, it makes a huge.

difference when people become your. allies and they stand up for you. Yeah. At that time, what were your dreams post. education? Like what were What were your. aspirations before you became the emblem. and the symbol that you speak about? What were you dreaming of? What was your. hope to do with your education that you. were so grateful to receive? I mean, I had many dreams. I was uh. you know, exploring everything. Initially, I just wanted to be a car. mechanic. Then I said, "Okay, let's be a doctor. because everybody was dreaming to be a.

doctor or engineer." But when the. Taliban took over our hometown and they. banned girls' education, they. restricted women from movement outside. their houses, and they were targeting. and killing people if they dared to. speak out. So, at that time, I was questioning what. our leaders were doing for us. So, I. said, "Okay, you know what? I'll become. the prime minister and I will uh fix all. the problems in the world." Of course, that dream of mine changed because I. realized that, you know, if you look at. the world politics,

people in in in leadership positions are. rather disappointing us by not. addressing these injustices and these. deep-rooted problems. So, uh of course, my dreams have changed throughout life, but at the time, I I just wanted a. different. reality, a different. uh future for us. I simply wanted girls. to be able to go to school, to not be. stopped, to not be threatened, to not be. harmed, to not be killed, um to to learn and to follow their.

dreams. I did not want people to like. pick up their guns and target a girl. simply because she wants to be in school. and she wants to follow her dreams. But this is a reality like, you know, for women and girls to exist and to have. equal opportunities or or to have a life. in dignity. as a human, they're threatened for that. It's really. hard to process, but this is a reality. like so many many women have experienced. or are still living through. I mean, which girl at 11 years old want to be an.

activist? But it's only when your school. is closed, that's when you want to speak. out because you want to be back in. school. My story is not unique. So many. other girls in my hometown wanted to. speak out. against the Taliban oppression for their. right to education, but their brothers. or their fathers stopped them. The only. thing that's different in my story is. that my father did not stop me. I just. thought I would never get married. I was. strongly against marriage for. for a long time, and then I fell in love.

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for millions of finds, each with a. story. eBay, things people love. When. the Taliban takes over your town, what. does that actually look like and what. does that mean for people who have no. idea what that actually looks like and. what that means for your rights and what. that means for general living? >> I mean everything changed when the. Taliban took over. Uh initially they were just giving. religious sermons about, you know, the. religion and then.

um quickly they started announcing these. restrictions on women and girls that a. woman cannot go to a market, she cannot. um. do a job, uh they were threatening. people who were artists, like painters. or dancers or musicians. They said, you. know, all of this form of art is also. prohibited. And then they started like. attacking people for it. They would. announce somebody's name that, you know, this person dared to disobey our rules. and and. uh and and then they were like they.

would kill them. It was terrifying time. Uh. and then it affected like me directly. and it affected girls directly when the. Taliban announced that no girl will be. allowed to be in school. And I. remember the day when uh the. ban was imposed. And I woke up and I just couldn't go to. school anymore because the Taliban would. be on the roads, on the streets and and. and, you know, you could not be seen. with a with a backpack uh or in your.

school uniform. And I remember the. morning when my brothers would pack. their school bags and go off while I had. to stay behind. Um my I think then like. a few uh weeks later. um some of our friends sort of came up. with this idea that why don't we just go. in our home clothes and like wear a long. uh hefty scarf basically and like hide. our bag and and still like make it to. school. So we also like uh went to. school secretly. Uh but it was I was.

like, you know, why we should not be. living in a world where girls have to. hide that they're learning. Yeah. It. should be a right that every girl should. be freely. uh. receiving. Where did the innovative idea. of starting a blog come from to write. about these things that you started to. document and reference and stand up for? Like, where did that impetus come from. for you to say, "I'm actually going to. write about these things. I'm actually.

going to document what's happening?" You. know, when when these horrible things. are happening and you are living under a. terrorism, you just want somebody to. know. Mhm. It feels like the world is. silent and nobody's looking towards you. So, you know, my father and I were. finding opportunities where we can. raise uh awareness, bring attention to. what was happening. Uh because if you. don't bring attention, then there's just. lack of action as well. So, I was speaking at the local press.

conferences. We were doing peace walks. We uh spoke to the local media. Uh then. these international platforms also. reached out. So, the BBC blog um. you know, the the BBC journalist. approached my dad and said that they. wanted a student to share about their. life under the Taliban. Uh so, my dad. actually asked uh another girl at at the. school and uh. you know, she shared her blog for for 1. day and then her father came the next. day and said he could he can't allow his.

daughter to share her blog. So, when I. heard that, I went to my dad and I said, "Dad, like I want I want to write my. blog. I want to share my story." Uh so, my dad said, "Okay, like if you want to. do it, I'll support you.". So, I started blogging about my life. I. talked about, you know, the last days of. school and then what life was like under. the Taliban uh education ban. I wanted the world to know what was. happening and I believe that change does. not happen itself.

Things will remain as they are if we are. waiting so for somebody else to come and. save us. So, I knew that I need to do my. part as much as I can. And if that means. telling my story at these conferences, at these local platforms, or to the. international media, I will do that. My. father was an activist, so I was just. simply following his footsteps, and we. both became this these activist. doing the work together. I mean, that. was from such an early age. That was.

like 11 years old. >> 11 years old, yeah. >> 11 years old for you to start becoming. an activist. And that's what so. interesting about it is I read the book. that. you were an activist before the event, and we'll we'll talk about it, but you. were already an activist from such a. young age. It almost feels like you were. meant to be an activist, but there's so. much lost when it becomes your entire. identity rather than a part of your. identity. >> Basically, yes, I became an activist at.

a young age, but this is not what I had. chosen for myself. Mhm. It was the. circumstances. that made me an activist. I mean, which. girl at 11 years old want to be an. activist? But it's only when your school. is closed, that's when you want to speak. out because you want to be back in. school. That was my dream. I I wanted girls in. my hometown to be in school. I wanted. myself to continue my education. We knew. that a future without an education is.

dark. We had seen stories of women who lost. their dreams because they were not being. able to go to school. So, simply it was. the dream to have a future with equal. opportunities. We can stand on our own. two feet. We can make a living for. ourselves. We can know about our rights. We can protect our rights. And so, education was a pathway. And if. when you are living in a patriarchal. society, education becomes the only. pathway. Yeah, it's it's.

It's amazing because you say that the. situation made you that way, but. obviously there were other people. turning down the activism. Yet you. felt like compelled to stand up for your. fellow friends and fellow girls. I. thought, um, if I were to choose between two options, whether to live under the Taliban and. and and be silent. or if it was, you know, just to speak. out, and even if it mean a threat from.

the Taliban, uh, but some change could happen, I. would choose the latter. Mhm. Because I wanted to see things. change. Um, cuz. I wanted simply a different future for. ourselves. And it's really hard to tell, you know, if it was the voice of like. one activist who changed something or. not. Like so many people were involved. Um, you know, there was a whole civil. society who were advocating for bringing. peace and for like, you know,

like speaking against the Taliban's. restrictions. Then this military. operation was done. We returned, uh, to. we became internally displaced. And. then, uh, the summer of 2009, we. returned to Swat Valley and we restarted. our lives. So many schools were bombed, so many police stations, uh, and. different like political, uh, officials'. buildings, and so many things were like. damaged. There were suicide attacks. People had lost their loved ones. So our. area, you know, Swat Valley, which has.

been known as the as a place of tourism. and it's known for its beauty and it's. called like the Switzerland of the East, uh, became like a place of. terrorism and it was now just like. war-torn area. So we had to then, uh, rebuild it. And I knew that. it was not just, um, groups like the. Taliban that we have to stand up. against, but we also have to talk about. uh the mindset, the the mentality that. that still exists. It It does not have. the like a name. It does not necessarily.

is in the shape of an armed group, but. the. the ideology is there and we have to. stand up against this ideology that do. not see women as equal humans and that. deny women and girls their rights. So, my father and I continued our activism. Uh but, we just thought that the Taliban. were were gone. Um. uh but, somehow, you know, they were. still there in the distance and I um. yeah, and then. in in 2012, at age 15, I was attacked by.

the Taliban. Before that, were you worried. that you'd be attacked and did you fear. being attacked when you were being an. activist through the blog, these. conferences, speaking? Were you scared that that could ever. happen and that could be a possibility? Would that ever cross your mind? Yes, I had these thoughts many times. What would happen if a Taliban gunman. shows up and tries to attack me? But, I was more worried about my dad. Um.

I just had this little hope that maybe. they would not attack a girl. They would. not attack, you know, a 14- or. 15-year-old girl. Uh so, yeah, you know, like. I every night I would be worried about. my father more than more than me. Mhm. That I mean, even as I listen to that. as I'm listening to your journey and. your life, I'm like, there is so much courage and. there is so much resilience for such a. young person.

to be able to even make sense of what is. going on, let alone. put themselves at the center of it and. the fact that you were. concerned about your father in that. moment is so. heartwarming and at the same time it's. it's painstaking because. it's so much pressure on such a young. person to take on. It's it's really. incredible. I mean. in your book and I want to be very. sensitive to do with this because of the. way you write about it and when I was at. this point in your book it really.

you know, it really. took me a second to process it myself. and you talked about how you said my. life is so happy now and it's hard to. look back. Mhm. And I I appreciate that. I can't imagine I can't even come close. to imagine how hard it is to even. reflect on being attacked by the. Taliban. And in the manner that it happened, I. believe you were on a bus. Yes, school. bus. School bus. So, walk me through.

what you can. sensitively and mindfully in the best. way for you to share that experience so. people can understand what happened. Yes, so we were on our school bus. and you know, I was just hoping I'd get. to my home and prepare for my next day. exams. It would be a normal school day. the next day. But on the way the Taliban. gunmen stopped our school bus. And one. person was distracting the the driver at. the front and one guy showed at the back.

and asked who's Malala. And my face was uncovered. He. immediately started firing bullets. One bullet immediately hit hit me on the. left side of my forehead. And two bullets hit the friends who were. sitting right next to me in their arms. and in their hand. I do not remember the the the exact. incident. You know, and this has been my. answer so far. I have like many. like memories in in in my head but I.

sort of have told myself I do not. remember it. And I was then taken to a. hospital and from one hospital to then. another to then another and then. eventually I was moved to the UK for my. further treatment. And uh you know, I. survived. My friend survived. I started. my school again in the UK. My friends. also were moved to the UK and they. started their school. So you know, when I when I look back, I'm just really grateful that.

you know, that that we are all alive and. we completed our education. But like. everything changed that day. You know, like we didn't make it to to. our homes. It's it was. it was sort of a a terrible terrible. moment. All I remember is the last day. of school and then waking up in a. hospital in Birmingham in the UK. And. just realizing that I have a tube in my. neck. and I can't talk and I just look around.

and I see these nurses and doctors. speaking in English. They look very. different than like the brown people I. had seen in Pakistan and I said, I feel. like I'm in a different place. And I. was sort of writing down to them to to. just tell me where I where I was. I. said, you know, where am I? Like what happened to me? And I repeatedly asked one question, where's my father? And then I would also add, who's going. to pay for this? I don't have money. So. I was worried about the.

the medical bill. You know, I think. Americans would understand where I was. coming from. But I just wanted to get better and. leave the hospital, go back to my old. life. It took me a while to realize that. you know, my life had taken a turn. My friends joined me 10 days later at. the hospital. That was the first time I actually. cried. Because a lot of people might think that. when I woke up, I might have been under. like so much pain and trauma, I might.

have been crying day and night. No, I I. just I wasn't feeling normal. The pain. is so intense that you just forget. the normal emotions to process it, then. the normal reactions. So, I I couldn't. even cry. And the first time I I saw my family. when they came back to the uh when they. came to the UK, um that was the first moment I cried. Uh. because, you know, when you see your. family, you you you connect with that. normal life that you had before.

So, um and then before I even realized, you. know, I had like a few more surgeries to. go through, and then you know, they. said, "Okay, you we want you to do this. like interview, and. uh we're supposed you know, we want you. to do give this speech at the UN, and we. also have this book offer, so it would. be good if you can sign the book offer. So, and you have to start uh. school as well uh because we don't know. when you can go back, but you should. start school in the UK." So, I joined a.

new school, and this is this like new. pathway that my life took. To be honest, like. in in my heart, I thought, "This is all. temporary. Like, this is all temporary. for now because we are going to go back. to Pakistan as soon as possible, and we. will have a normal life.". Um I just had no idea what was out there. and and what had happened. So, like the first time when I learned. about um. the response from like people around the. world was when this.

a person from the hospital brought a. basket of cards and letters, and I'm. like reading cards and letters from. people around the world, like US and. Japan and uh India and Canada, and I'm. like, "Wait a second. Like, do people. know about me?" And then I like looked. at uh you know, sort of news on on. Google and all of that. I was like, "Wait a second. Uh. wow, like this is this is. truly um an opportunity because. people have heard my story, but maybe I.

can bring attention to. the stories of girls around the world. So, I started Malala Fund as well at the. time, an organization I have dedicated. to girls' education. So, before I knew it, like, you know, everything had switched now. Now, I was. sort of like the lead activist. My. father was following my footsteps. And I was like helping my family as. well. I I was, you know, doing a book or. speeches and things like that to help. support my family. Um and I also had to. be a student at the same time.

I mean, I know. A lot. >> Yeah, even hearing about it, I'm just. like I don't I have no idea how you. carried all of that. In the middle of. all of this, you sort of. forget that you are 15 and you're. supposed to be a girl. I, you know, could not be silly. I could. not. um do normal things. I was not. binge-watching some like sitcoms. I was. I was I was not being able to make.

friends at school. I was too shy, too. awkward. And, you know, at lunchtime I would I. would just say, "Okay, you know, I hope I can like sit next to a friend. At least I can pretend like I'm sitting. with somebody. Uh and I don't want to sit alone.". Um. so, by the end of my school, I just had. only made one one best friend. And we. are now like friends for life, but just. one one friend at school. And uh. so, that that was all tough because when. you're like so busy and you have all of. this work going on, um. it's you know, it's hard it's hard to be.

a normal student at school. I mean, with the attack, it sounds like. the Taliban had come across your blog. and aware of your speeches and your. activism. Do you think they saw you as a threat. because you were starting to gain. momentum? Were you starting to have an. impact and they noticed that? Or was it. a way of displaying power? Like Yeah. >> How have you reconciled that? So, the. Taliban issued statements after the. attack and they said many things when I. survived that they did the right thing,

that I was somehow promoting an. anti-Islamic ideology by. simply asking for girls to be in school. And they said that they still see me as. uh. as that disobedient person that needs to. be punished for speaking out. So, they have like repeatedly. created these fabricated narratives, these false narratives, calling what I.

do as like un-Islamic or. all of that. I mean, like. learning and education is. a core part of Islam. I wish sometimes. that that they read what they're. preaching. Like, if they read more about. Islam, they will learn that the most. important thing is actually seeking. knowledge and learning. And and and. there's nothing in in the religion that. says a woman or a girl cannot learn. So, how can they make up these uh new rules. by themselves? It's just simply.

patriarchy and misogyny. Um you know, it's they try to mis-. >> as a cover. Exactly. Exactly. Um. Yeah, I mean, I I sometimes think about. how much can I understand their ideology. and then how can I convince them? I was. of this view for a long time. I thought. maybe I could sit down with them and. explain it to them and I can tell them. that, you know, I have also read the. Quran with translation or like I know. uh all the 99 names of Allah off by.

heart and I can sort of say like, you. know, that. that they don't own the religion. Like, they're all all of us um from many. cultures and many backgrounds who. connect with with the faith. Um that you. know, education is not a threat to. women. It's rather about their. empowerment and that it is a core part. of Islam. But with time I realized that, you know, it's. it's not about that. It's not about. you know, changing their ideologies, but. it's talking about the deep causes of.

why these extreme ideologies emerge. And. education is a is a pathway to. challenge indoctrination, uh to encourage critical thinking among. people, and to empower people. Like. education is is the most powerful. equalizer. And it can help us address so. many of these social economic. injustices. And at the same time, like, you know, if the Taliban do not want to. see women and girls empowered or in. education, the best way for me to fight.

back is to help girls and women get. education and equal opportunities. So, I. I shifted my focus. I said, "I'm going. to focus on educating girls. The Taliban. wanted to stop one girl from learning. Let's educate every girl in the world.". Mhm. So, it's so empowering listening to. you to say that and to see the ripple. effects that it's having. And I wonder for you, as you were doing. that, as you start that process from. coming out of the coma, how long were. you in a coma for? Um I think a week.

Wow. >> Yeah. It was like induced coma. I can't. imagine how worried your parents were. when you didn't come home that night. I. mean, it was a nightmare. I I could. never um. understand it. I. you know, comprehend it what they. experienced. And it's one of those topics that sort. of we we have talked through when it was. uh. the book writing phase. You know, that's. when you ask each other questions. Like, "I'm writing this chapter. Can you tell. me uh what exactly happened?" But these. conversations are really really hard.

Yeah. Um and like mental health, therapy, these conversations did not. come up at the time. I had like many. doctors and nurses, and I loved all of. them. But the therapist at the hospital was my. least favorite. And you know, she would. ask me. "Um, how are you feeling today?" And I. would roll my eyes, that uh, you know, what does she know? And and like my father, my parents, uh, and I, we sort of said no to therapy. We.

said it's okay, like, you know, I'm. doing fine. I have recovered. Like the. surgeries are successful. I have. recovered. And then it was like years later that I. wished. that I had received therapy. Um, because I thought. I I, you know, I had recovered, and. everything was fine. Um, I I just thought I did not remember. the attack. So, I'm good. I can move on. And then 7 years later,

I had flashbacks. that were triggered by a bong incident. Yeah, so, you know, this is now college. time, and uh, I um, was open to. exploring many things in college. I, you. know, I my life had taken this shift. I. was becoming a different young person. So, this was like a you know, a normal. night, and I was hanging out with some. friends, and they showed me a bong, and I was.

like, "What is this?" And it's like, "Oh, you know, just give it a try. Nothing harmful.". So, I take one puff. I cough. Then, on. the second attempt, I inhale it, and I. felt it went all inside my body. And what was like supposed to be a fun. night. just took a sharp turn. And. immediately, I froze. I thought. I was reliving the attack. The flashbacks were in front of my eyes.

I thought I could see the gunman again. I. was shaking. I was shivering. You know, I could hear my heartbeat. I was you. know, I I just I wanted to scream. It. was like the such a. a trauma that I was going through in. that moment and it like went on and on. I just wanted it to stop and I felt so. helpless like time slowed down. I you know, I thought maybe this is the. afterlife. Maybe maybe I'm dead. Maybe.

it has happened again. Like maybe the. gunmen are are back and I was like so. scared that I could not even close my. eyes and fall asleep. Because I thought. if I close my eyes. um. that I will die. Um and. like even even the next day I thought. you know, this will like sort of. magically disappear. You just hope the. next day to be normal and it wasn't the. case and I realized that um. my life had changed.

I had many panic attacks after that. and and I as much as I tried I just. could it was not going away. Well, it's incredible to think after 7. years. >> Yes. that everything could come back. And I was I was actually going to ask. before that there's this. it's almost like you were being asked to. be the symbol of courage and hope. Yeah. But that meant there was no space for. grief or anger. No. >> Like or doubt like the grief of lost the.

lost life that you had before, the grief. of having to leave this place that you. loved that you thought you were coming. back to. It sounds like there wasn't any time or. space to process any of that and had you. had the therapy support that you would. have wanted maybe. it wouldn't have happened that way. Yeah. Talk to me about how. when did you was that when you first. started looking at emotions like grief. and anger and what were the emotions. that came up after that. 7-year reminder?

I think now I see it as emotions of. grief and uh. frustration or. But I think, you know, what's different in in my experience was. that when a moment like that broke me. down and when small things would make me. scared or frightened all of a sudden, this was not happening before. Because I. was supposed to be this brave and. courageous girl. And now that I was afraid of small.

things or or just nothing. terrified me. I felt that I had failed. in. living up to the expectation of being. brave and courageous. And. um. that was the hardest part to process. I just could not take in more. Um and I was frustrated with myself. because I thought like, Malala, remember, like you went through so much. You processed it and.

like you could take so much on your. shoulders. Why is it breaking you down. now when like you are safe and there's. nothing to be worried about. You like. everything is okay and somehow you're. like frightened now. That is just like. so hard to process at the time that you. feel like so frustrated with yourself. There's this anger, frustration, um. and and you feel like you are an. impostor because, you know, you have. you have failed to meet this.

definition of being brave. So for months. like it it went on and even my friends. started noticing. that I was not doing okay. So one of my friends then suggested that. I see a therapist and that was the first. time after 7 or 8 years that I started. therapy. It's so fascinating, isn't it, that despite you having lived through so. many difficult things, the mind is still. able to guilt you into thinking you. should have figured this out. Like how. do you like it's so like hearing you say. that.

you've got all the proof that you've. gone through really hard things. Yes. But the mind still finds a way to make. you feel guilty and shameful and. frustrated that you haven't figured it. out or an impostor as you just said. >> Yes. Like oh, you're an impostor because. you're helping people have hope, but. you're still dealing with this and it's. it's amazing how the mind can just get. the better of us. Yeah. Regardless of. what we've lived through. Yeah. I mean, we lived under terrorism. Uh we lived. under the Taliban. And.

I lived those moments with so much. courage. And then like many years later, I could. not even watch the news and see the word. killing, attack. Um it it would just. terrify me. So much that like you cannot. hide it. You cannot hide that it's it's. breaking you apart. You know, the. flashbacks, these panic attacks. So when. my friend suggested that I see a. therapist, um I remember my first. session with the therapist where I told. her everything about what was going on.

Um she told me that, you know, this is. PTSD and anxiety. She said it could be like many things. ex- you might be stressed about your. exams or your college life and and so. many things that you are thinking about. right now in life. Uh but this is anxiety and this is PTSD. that you are experiencing like many many. years later. Um you know, so annoyed. I was saying. like uh. So how can we fix this? I was hoping she. would give me some medication.

That she would fix the problem. But she. made me realize that it takes time. It. takes time to process. She. taught me different. uh techniques like like breathing. techniques to. uh help myself when I am uh facing. anxiety. Um. uh and uh and and she you know, helped. me understand that. there's only so much like you can take. at a time. And maybe you could many. years ago, but maybe right now that like. you know, she calls it a window of.

tolerance that your window of tolerance. is maybe you know, sort of shrinking a. bit and then it expands a bit at times. that maybe you have just too much on on. on your shoulders that you are. overwhelmed. Or sometimes when we don't. address it on time, it piles up. And and. then it's they get so heavy that it. breaks you down. So she said like you might be. experiencing that that as well. So yeah, like the therapy. really changed everything for me. Like. if I had not received therapy, I just do. not even know if I would have been in.

like in in this position right now. What. kept you committed to therapy. when you're having such dark days? Because as you said, it's not like you. wake up tomorrow and you feel better, obviously. And so what kept you. committed to the process when you. weren't seeing the light at the end of. the tunnel? So you know, like I I was finding a way. to to get out of it. Like you know, you. feel like you are you are in the. darkness or like you want to get out. You know that you don't want to be in.

the place where you are right now. And you're finding different ways to. get out of it. I tried to talk to my. parents. My parents just could not. understand. I you know, I was like sort. of phrasing it in a way that it doesn't. freak them out, but I was telling them. that I have had some challenges with my. mental health. And my mom was like, "Just don't be. stressed like you know, just be happy.". And the same with my dad. He's like, you. know, "We want to see you happy and when. you are sad, it makes us sad. But when.

you are happy, it makes us happy." And I. was like, "Okay, like I'll I'll try, but like. this is not how it works." I usually. debate with my dad that you know, I have. the right to be sad as well. That these are all emotions and we need. to give ourselves time to process that. I found my friends very helpful. So at. college, all the amazing friends that I. had made helped me in this time because. they were there for me. They were not my. therapist, but they made sure that I. like did not feel alone. The.

Um you know, they were sharing moments. with me, taking me to dinner, or taking. me to an event or something, like taking. me for a walk, simple things like that. And then. a few times they did a sleepover. with me cuz I you know, I was. struggling. I was struggling to fall. asleep. And every you know, every day a. friend would take a turn to do a. sleepover. You know, the first time then I was able. to like fall asleep. Um and and yeah, it. was like my friends who made me feel. that getting therapy, it's okay. Like.

don't be disappointed with yourselves. that somehow you have not lived up to. the expectation of you know, being this. brave girl who knows the answer to. everything and she has figured it out. Like it's okay. So many people who you. might think. have got it all together are actually. getting therapy. And when my friend told. me that she herself was seeing a. therapist, I said, "Wow, like I had no. idea." She said, "Yeah, like you may not.

know, but a lot of people are." So it's. like it's okay and my therapist told me. the same thing. So that gave me a sense. of relief where you just like don't feel. alone anymore. And that's why like I'm. sharing my story because I'm wondering. how many people. are out there who might feel alone, who. may not know a way out. I just want to. tell them that I was in the same place. and I wished. somebody had told me their story and and. had. told us like it's okay to ask for help.

Like you know, get therapy, get the. support, talk to somebody. I took months. to actually see a therapist. Um so I hope that when people read my. story, they um they they ask for help. Mhm. Friends is such a. kind of through line in your journey as. I'm hearing you talk today like the. importance of friends, missing friends, making friends. How would you define a. good friend? Uh I mean, it's like.

a place where you feel you can be. yourself. Mhm. When I am in the company of my friends, I don't think about being correct about. everything. I don't think about. am I you know, am I am am I saying this. thing correctly or not and. you just don't think twice. You can be. yourself. You can let it all out. It is a non-judgmental environment that. they create for you. And especially for. people like some of us who are uh. exposed uh.

to a public life and who have a public. profile, we have seen how you know, we. can be criticized or scrutinized for. almost anything and we have to somehow. just say all the correct things. But when you find. friends that you trust uh who love you. and support you no matter what, you can. be yourself with them. So like with my friends, I you know, I. can be silly. I can be funny. I can talk. about any topic. I can talk about boys.

and astrology and you know, we can. discuss their their their love lives and. um and in that moment, I just don't feel. like I have to be somebody. Uh or I have to like live up to some. sort of a profile that I have. I feel like I can just simply be myself. >> Mhm. Yeah, I think that's that's what we're. all looking for. Yeah, friends are. everything. >> Yeah, and as you're finding your way in. this book, I I imagine it becomes harder. and harder with people who know more. about you even if they don't know you.

>> Yes. to really break that barrier down. Yeah, so I remember the first week of. college, I had decided that I will say. hi to everybody. I uh. you know, might be overdoing it, but. it's okay. It might feel cringe, but go. say hello to everybody because you don't. want it to be like your school life. You. want to make as many friends as. possible. I remember saying hi to Cora, who became. like my first friend at college. And.

you know, like sort of when we. connected, we. were talking about what we were studying. and what we liked about our subjects and. then we were visiting these different. exhibitions about different societies. and clubs at the college fair. So, then. there was this like Oxford Union fair as. well. It's like a famous debating society. And and you know, I was like hiding this. identity of of mine of being, you know, an activist. So, I'm looking at the.

at the poster of the Oxford Union and I. see all of these like famous speakers. who have spoken there before. And then I. see a photo of mine. And I was like, ah, you know, why did. they put it there or like how do I hide. myself because. this is like the last thing I want to. see. And then some people spotted me. They asked for a photo. And this friend. of mine, like she was just so. supportive. She took, you know, photos. of me, you know, with the fans and.

I was like, ah, like it's over. She may. never want to talk to me again. Like the. friendship is over. But once that was done, you know, I was like, I'm so sorry. I. said, you know. And and she said, it's. okay, like, you know. And and we just. quickly changed our conversation back. to, okay, like, you know, what are we. going to get for our groceries or, you. know, when is when is our next essay and. all of that. I think with friends like. these, you like, you know, you you can. be more yourself. Yeah, I think I think. this was when you're writing about in.

the book, it was more about school than. college, but you became the resident. advisor on romance. Yes. >> Is is what you say. And then there's. this beautiful part where you say. "How are you so good at spotting red. flags when you've never been on a date?". And you say, "I I guess I'm a better. coach than a player.". And I was like, you know, talk to me about that experience of. again, like it goes back to what you. were saying earlier, like you're trying. to live up to this Yes. You're not binge-watching TV shows, you're not dating, you're not you know,

No. walk me through that paradox of being a. young woman. who's ex- wanting to experience the. world growing up, but then having to. keep this reminder almost of who you st-. what you stand for. Yeah, I mean, I had become this. uh relationship guru in college. Because everybody was going through some. problems with boys, you know, you can. imagine. There are always problems. Somebody was getting ghosted or you. know, the boy was not replying for 2.

days, and my friend is like, "Do you. think he loves me?" And I'm like, "I. You're missing the sign.". And. you know, I you know, I was helping them. understand, you know, to some I was. saying like, "You need to move on. Like. there's more in life.". And then they were like, "How how do you. know it all?" I was like, "I don't know. Um. yeah, I do sometimes say, you know, like. a coach doesn't have to be on the field. Like I I did not expect to have like a. love story. And even though like just.

growing up I had seen Bollywood movies. and everybody has imagined Shah Rukh. Khan like figure, you know, we all. imagine ourselves in the Shah Rukh Khan. songs. >> Yeah, yeah, of course. But. I became very self-conscious after that. attack because my facial nerve was. damaged on the left side, and that um. caused asymmetry. And uh you know, like my smile and and. and like the features were not the same. anymore. And. you know,

sort of like you notice, right? Like you. you're not the same person anymore. So I. became. more self-aware and I just thought, okay, like. I you know, I should not like I just. thought like nobody would love me and at. the same time I was like but and nobody. cuz you know, we're like so. hard on ourselves that we're like, you. know, but nobody should love me and I. just want to focus on on the work now. This love life is not for me. So that's. sort of what I thought. Though in college, I did find a crush.

He was like good-looking guy, not my. husband, a different guy, a good-looking. guy, a really mysterious character, more like a gangster kind of character. I did not know I was attracted to like. the bad boys. And it was more like a one-sided love in. imagination. It wasn't real because, you. know, he would just sometimes like say. hello to me, come to my room and eat all. the bananas and cookies and then. disappear. You know, there was like there was like.

I just had no idea. My friends would. sometimes say that, you know, he's doing. drugs and stuff like that. So stay away. from him. I was like, no, he needs my. help. Like somebody needs to protect. him. Yeah, but like when you yourself are in. that love phase, then it's you can't see. it clearly. It is true like, you know, you you just can't see it. But yeah, then that crush ghosted me and that. story was over. But I was like, you. know, at least I just went through a. moment of feeling love and and maybe I. loved it because.

like I I was under this like assumption. that, you know, I cannot be loved and I. will never find somebody. So I said, there's what there's no harm in just. loving somebody in your imagination. Yeah, I mean that feeling of I won't be. loved and maybe isn't for me. That feels. like a really deep kind of emotion that. that doesn't just disappear. What worked. to help work through that? Like what really allowed you to work on. that, especially when.

this feeling came from the incident and. it from from being attacked. It didn't. It didn't come from yourself. You didn't. have that before. You know, girls have been sort of told. to be insecure about themselves. So, I. would not say that there was like. literally no insecurity before, but. after the attack, I became very very. insecure about my looks, but so much. that I just said, "You know what? I. don't care about it.". When you. set a new pathway for yourself and you. say, "You know what? Like love life is. not for me. I I don't care if nobody.

loves me and it just doesn't matter.". And I think in the middle of that, I. just um forgot to love myself. That was the hard part. But when I found. uh this new guy in my life, Asser, who's. now my husband, so there's there's a. good ending to this story. You know, I I immediately fell in love. with him because he was like so. good-looking, hot and handsome, funny, had a good. sense of humor. He was laughing at my.

jokes. I thought he's just so. entertaining. I was like, "Wow, like is is he the Is. he like the person that I had sort of. imagined. um. you know, for myself?" So, when you. know, when Asser and I started like. talking and we were getting to know each. other, I I knew that I I love him and I. wanted to be with him. The marriage was. a whole different conversation, so we. can come back to that. But the other. conversation was. about me accepting that he loves me. I was in so much doubt. I could not.

trust it. I you know, I just constantly. felt like, you know, but but why would he love me? And. then like in the end, I just told myself. that. you know, you somebody can't write um a. proof to you to say, "Hey, I give you a. proof that I love you.". Um if they are treating you with respect. and they make you happy and they're. there for you and they want to spend the.

rest of their life with you, then they. love you. Mhm. And embrace that. Accept that. Like. don't don't question it. Don't doubt it. There you you can't give them any. guarantee. They can't give you any. guarantee. So, I had to like process that. It was. really hard. But in the end I I accepted. it because I constantly would have these. questions in my head. But like are you. okay with like the way I look? Is it. okay if I can't have like a a full. smile? Um and are you okay with like. sort of the left side of my face? And.

all of that. Like sometimes like I would. try to ask him these questions and. sometimes these questions would be. floating in my mind. And then I would just remind myself like. he's he's here with you. He's looking at. you and he's smiling. Like he can't stop. looking at you. He's calling you gorgeous and beautiful. And so, accept that. Embrace that. Arthur loved me and and and he you know. in with him like I have felt this. immense love and joy. Uh so, he loves me. But more than that,

I think I started loving myself. Wow. I love hearing that. Thank you for. sharing that. Thank you so much for. taking us there and. >> Yes. the multitude of emotions that every. person goes through and definitely what. women go through. But then to add your. own experience to as well. What was. Arthur's background like when it comes. to women's rights and education and you. know, how did he what was his viewpoint. on that? Of course I assume of course. it's supportive. But I would love to. know what his journey was and his.

experience of that was. Yeah, I mean he. has uh two older sisters who are like 18. and 16 years older than him. And uh. so, he usually says that he grew up with. three moms. Um he wasn't as close to his dad. Um. he has like the right views. I know. sometimes men receive a lot of praise. when they're saying the right thing. We're like, "Wow, this man is so nice. because. he believes women should be allowed to. work." Or.

yeah, like women should be making. decisions about their bodies and about. their career, anything. We're like, "Wow, he's such a nice man.". So, yes, I do sometimes say that he is an. amazing person, like so open-minded and. like he just respects women's dignity. and and see and see them as like equal. humans. And which is which should be the. case, but then at the same time I'm. like, that should be called a basic man. Mhm. A basic normal man. >> It's such a true It's such a great It's.

such a great. It's such a great way. >> Yeah, and I have been praising my dad so. much for being like this amazing. feminist dad. That should be a basic normal dad. >> Yeah. Yeah, well said. Absolutely. I. could That is brilliant. A basic man and a basic guy. That's what. we're trying to aspire for right now. >> Exactly. No, it's true. You you you. couldn't you couldn't have said it. better. It's It's not an achievement to. think we should have equal rights and. equal opportunities and equal Yeah, there's no There's no greatness in that. It's obvious. It's really really.

obvious. Makes a lot of sense. Was it. Was it hard for you to. fall in love and date and build a. relationship with the expectations that. come from, you know, your home, that come from. culture, that come from family, like Of. course, you've talked about your father. being more forward-thinking when it. comes to women's education, but I feel. like dating, love, romance, these are. not easy topics. in in a South Asian home. All of these. things were on my mind. But I think the one thing that sort of.

held me back was marriage. Because, you. know, like I had to then. understand that like in reality, um, I want to be with Asser, we have to. get married because culturally, you. cannot be with a person, you know, you. you have to like get married to to live. with them. >> Yes. So, I knew that, you know, I cannot sort. of like change that whole culture all of. a sudden. Um, and at the same time like I I said, you.

know, like. I have seen how marriage has. um, changed the the future of so many. girls who were forced into it. I, you know, we know that tens of. millions of girls every year are married. off before the age of 18. And. and this is, you know, this has been an. institution that has. given less to women through history and. across the globe. So, it wasn't that I was against.

marriage or for marriage or or any of. that, but I was just like confused. I. said like, "Okay, like this this is not. an an easy decision.". And I felt that I was thinking. collectively for all women, uh, when I was considering marriage for. myself. So, I like on the one hand, I. just wanted to be with Asser. I said. like, "There's there's no doubt about. that." But at the same time, I also was. grappling with this idea of marriage. In. the end, I, you know, I I did all of my. like research and I chatted with my.

friends and we were like reading books. by famous feminist authors and all of. that. But I said, um, to Asser that, you know, it's it's. about this like mutual between us. And, uh, the more we talked, the more. sort of I spent time with him, I just. understood who he was as a person and. how he would be like a great supportive. husband. Um, and I and I just saw how I. enjoyed my time in his company that.

when I was with him, all these questions. that would be floating in my mind would. just vanish. Mhm. And I remember we went to Lake Placid. and this was a few months before. marriage. While I was still thinking, I. said, "Maybe it's like over. Maybe like. I'll ask him all the questions and he'll. answer one incorrectly and like it's. done.". But the more time we spent together, I sort of I I was getting those answers. without even asking those questions. So. on the last day in Lake Placid, he said, "So you know, are you going to ask me. the questions finally or not?" And I.

said, "I think I have. the answer.". And I said, "I'm ready. I think I'm. ready. uh to be with you for the rest of my. life." So then you know, we a few months. later we finally got married. And I still say that. I am not proposing that marriage is the. best decision for every woman out there. I'm not saying it's the worst decision. for every woman out there. I think it should be a conversation that. we should be having openly and you know,

we should redefine these traditions, these norms, and talk about how it can. be this. beautiful mutual agreement between two. people where they add more to their. lives and make each other's lives. happier, more joyful, more adventurous, and that we challenge uh you know, the. the elements of it that have. given less to women and uh and you know, and and talk about the bigger problems. Mhm. Absolutely. Yeah, in the book you.

wrote, "How to choose between an institution I. didn't believe in Yes. >> and a life without the person I loved.". And it's really interesting to hear you. make sense of it. And again, it sounds. like it was such an intentional. decision. And there was so much. thought behind. why and what and how. And I think that. Yeah, I agree with you. No matter. whether someone decides to choose to get. married or not, I think that level of. thought Yes. >> is just inherently important and.

necessary. But I because I just thought. I would never get married, I would tell all my college friends, "Do. not get married. Um stay away from boys. It's just a waste of time and all of. that." So, I was like a I was strongly. against marriage for a for a long time. And then I I fell in love and I was the. first one in my friends group to get. married. They were rolling their eyes. They were. like, "Seriously? Seriously, that's what. you were advocating against?" I was.

like, "Oopsie." You know, I was like, "You know, you you should. never listen to a person, you know, if. they randomly give you advice." I said, "I'm an education activist. Like, listen. to me on that. Don't consider me an. expert on every topic, especially. marriage.". >> Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. How How do. you. when you look at just how your life has. changed, how the world has changed, when you observe what's happening in the. world today, what do you focus on? What are you. reflecting on? What are you aware of? I.

think the world is um. constantly changing, but right now it. feels that. it is becoming more and more difficult. for for women and girls. And I'm saying. this because of what we are witnessing. right now happening in Afghanistan. For. the past 4 years, the Taliban have. limited women and girls from education, work, and any public and political life. The Afghan women activists and different.

human rights groups are calling it a. gender apartheid, which means that it is. a form of an apartheid or a systematic. oppression simply based on gender. That. if you are born a girl, you have a different life. You cannot. even dream to be in school or to work. Um so, like when I when I just think about. what's happening with girls education, how there's there is a the. where girls are banned from. education and at the same time there are.

conflicts, wars, and a genocide. happening where. schools are bombed, where children are. attacked, and children are losing their future. like you know from Sudan, Congo all the. way to Palestine like what we have. witnessed happening in Gaza like right. in front of our eyes on our screens. It's It's like. It's terrifying. I just simply wish for a future. for girls where they can live a. dignified life with full access to.

education. And we know that that cannot happen if. we do not address the problems or the. injustices that are happening right in. front of our eyes. So these topics, you. know, whether it's about the wars and. conflicts or whether it's about like. climate-related events like floods or. other injustices like you we cannot. separate them from how it's affecting. girls' education. And at the same time. like you know, we can we can we can. think differently. We can think about.

investing in the future of. girls. We can think about investing in. education or focusing on on children as. a way to help us address these problems. as well. So education is like one of the. the most powerful and like best. solutions to. a lot of the world inequalities, injustices. So that's you know, that's something. that I advocate for. That's the focus of. my work. So these are like the issues that I. focus on. What are you seeing that's. actually making a change in places where.

women and young girls have been held. back? What are you actually seeing is moving. the needle and creating the shifts that. you're wanting? It is the local. activists who are driving real change on. the ground. My father and I started as local. education activists in Swat Valley. I. thought like nobody knew what we were. going through more than us. And I feel. the same about all of these other. pressing problems that we hear about in. the world. You know, if we are talking about.

Afghanistan, if you're talking about. Gaza, if you're talking about Nigeria, if you're talking about girls education. challenges in Pakistan. or or or other countries, we have to. work together with the local activists. because they understand the problems and. they understand the best solutions to. those problems as well. So, you know, when I started my foundation Malala. Fund, like I you know, I was ambitious. to like make change happen everywhere, but I had to really question myself. What can help us make real change? I you.

know, I have given many speeches and. received many awards and all of that. I. can tell you that it's not about one. speech. Even though like in history we. are sort of taught like it was that one. speech of I have a dream that changed. everything. No, I think it's it's. decades-long work to shift narrative, to. change policies, to change the law. That. is real change. And yes, everything like. adds up. You know, we cannot say that. you know, one action is completely useless. It.

adds up, but we have to have a bigger. picture. So, through Malala Fund, we are. investing in local education activists. in Nigeria, in Pakistan. We're also. working in Ethiopia, Tanzania and. Brazil. And then Afghanistan is our. priority country because of the literal. ban on girls education. We are providing. support to the local education activists. who are giving alternative education to. girls right now. You know, we're thinking about ways to. help take education to the homes of.

girls when the Taliban are not allowing. them to be in school. This is like our. short-term response. But we cannot, you know, see this. as as normal. Girls should be allowed to. be in school. So, we are also supporting. the Afghan women activists who are. doing advocacy, leading these campaigns, asking leaders to hold the Taliban. accountable, and they're asking leaders. to codify gender apartheid, to recognize. what's happening in Afghanistan as a.

gender apartheid, to put more pressure. on the Taliban to include women in the. rooms where decisions about their future. are made, to put women's rights on the. agenda, and. to change the reality that women and. girls in Afghanistan are living under. Like for me, if you ask me, are we doing enough or not? For me, like the the response is like, yes, we are doing something, but I think. about the girls who are out of school. right now. For as long as the ban. continues and and girls are not in.

school, I don't think we're doing. enough. So, we constantly need to be. doing more, whatever is in our capacity, to help. Afghan women and girls have the future. that they deserve. So, supporting local. education activists is the most powerful. way to drive real change. That's really. helpful because I think so many people. want to help and they don't know where. to start or what the right thing to do. is, and to hear that from you, I think. will give a lot of people here the. opportunity, a lot of our listeners, are. people who want to serve, who want to. support, who want to help.

from across the world, and. I guess the Malala Fund and some of. these places that you're supporting. would be great places for people to. contribute. >> This is the model of Malala Fund. It's. like the fundraising we do, we allocate. that money into grants, into these local. organizations who are working in all of. the countries that I mentioned, like. Nigeria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and I. have visited the work of these. organizations. Like I was in Nigeria, and these activists are just incredible.

people. Some of them have worked for. decades. They have changed policies in multiple. states. Like 5 years ago, you know, a girl was not guaranteed. education beyond. her primary level. And today, you know, she's guaranteed. her secondary education, it's because of. the work of these activists. So, they do. an incredible work. They have changed. the lives of so many girls, empowered. them. Um and when I meet the girls, like.

you can see the change happen like right. in front of your eyes. So, it's like. they're. uh truly inspiring. And I And I actually. focus on um supporting. young women and girl activist. So, when. we talk about activists, I'm like, we. have to. support the girls because they're the. ones who are actually experiencing these. problems and these challenges, and they. can be the best ones to actually. advocate uh for their rights. So, I I. also focus on like giving grants and. support to the girls activists. Mhm.

This incredible. Thank you for sharing. that. And I really hope that uh. if I if I can be useful at all or of. service, then please let me know. I'd. love to be involved. It's such a. I uh I have a younger sister, and I feel. like that I was raised by my mom and. took care of my younger sister, so I. feel like I've always grown up with that. understanding and and at least a. at least uh a feeling of that. And. having grown up in London, of course, it. was somewhat easier, but. at the same time, you still see the.

discrepancies that exist. And so, yeah, if I can be useful, please let me know. I was As I've been listening to you. today, Malala, I've been. wondering now, when you look back at the. attack, and you look back on that. moment, how do you process it after the therapy, after. the years away, after the 7 years when. it came back? Like, how do you view that. day and event now. after all this time? Funny enough, today. is the 9th of October while we are.

recording it. And this is the date when. the attack happened. So, it's been 13. years. Um. Do you know, I live it as a normal day. I do not want to think about it. It is really hard to. process this day because somehow this. day is about the gunmen who attacked me. And and that's why like I I just I want. this go I. I want this day to go as fast as it can.

because I just do not want to think. about. you know, how a you know, a person, a gunman could. decide to target a 15-year-old girl. It's really hard. It's not just about like what I. experienced, but. it puts you in a place where you feel. less hope for humanity. But in moments like these, I just try to. live this day as normal as I can and not. think about it. And I just remind myself. of.

the millions of people who stood with me. and supported me. I think about the. immense love that I have received. I. just think about the incredible. activists who have joined hands with me. to help create a better future for. girls. I just think about the collective. work that we are all doing. So, you know, I I just reflect on. um. on how we can create a world where no. other child faces a bullet. How we can.

create a world where. every child can have the right to be in. school. and. play and read and learn. and have a normal childhood. So, it's just a reminder of. of of this commitment to creating a. better future for for every girl and. every child out there. So, that's that's. what I focus on. Yeah, I I really. appreciate how human and true that. answer is.

Because I think often we. we externally we project a glamorized. view. >> Yeah. Where people are like, "Oh yeah, that that that was the day everything. changed and you know, my life I I look. back and it was. one of the best things that ever. happened because and it's like, you. know, just it's it's unhealthy and it's. it's wonderful to hear it from a very. human emotion of just like. I don't like to think about it. You. know, it's it's it's it's it's much more. much more real to hear you say that and.

and I think it's important. That's what. I think this book finding my way does. is that people get a real view on what. activism actually looks like because I. think we have. I think we're looking for heroes. And because we're looking for heroes, we. have a glorified view of what activism. looks like. >> Yeah. We we see them as like a more. global figure. >> Yeah. Global figures are also doing. amazing things, but it's the people who. we have not heard of, we have not seen. on our screens that are changing the.

lives of people. I have traveled to so. many countries and and met incredible. activists who have transformed the lives. of girls by standing up for their. education. Like I was in Tanzania and I. learned about. these incredible activists. who themselves when they were. in school you know, had to fight for for. staying in school every day. And today. they are changing the lives of many.

girls out there. They're you know, giving them bicycles because they have. to walk for long. distances to to have the safety and to. make it to school sooner. They are. giving them safety. in schools. They are changing the laws. which did not allow girls who became. pregnant and mothers at a young age to. return to school. They have like. reversed that. They're like every girl. should be in school. When you look at these milestones, it. just gives you so much more hope. And um.

and I'm just like so proud of the work. that Afghan women activists are doing. They're resilient. They're standing up. to the Taliban. And uh they are the. future of Afghanistan. So, I have so much hope. You know, I I know. that the Taliban would not be in power. forever. It's the It's the Afghan women. and girls who will be shaping the future. of their country. Malala, before we end, you usually end with a final five. Okay. >> Before we do that, I wanted to ask you, is there anything that I haven't asked. you about that you wish you had a chance.

to share here? In this book, one other. topic that uh I discuss is. a sense of belonging. Mhm. And I have. really struggled with that because of. the way I had to leave Pakistan. I have. been to Pakistan many more times after. that because I just did not want to give. up on. seeing my home again. Mhm. Um. I wanted to see the mountains, be by the. river, smell.

the the fresh air and um. and be in the place where I grew up. Uh but at the same time, I have now met. so many people around the world. I have. seen different countries. And I have found a sense of belonging. everywhere now. Mhm. And I. feel this. sense of belonging when I'm in the. company of. my family, when I'm chatting with my. friends, when we are laughing out loud, or when I am, you know, holding the hand of my. husband. Uh this is sort of the sense of.

belonging that that I feel. Um. and I think, you know, it's like when. you when you meet so many people, you. just realize we're all one. So, I hope. that we can. uh promote more of that. Uh and I have always had this sense of. like like home. And I And I was always. looking for home. like you know we we've. always lived in rented buildings so I. just never thought like what was my my. real and my true home. Uh but now you know for me like home.

home is everywhere and. I have um been on this journey to make. change happen for for girls in the world. and. the one place that was always on my mind. was uh my own hometown in Pakistan. where I saw how girls were still. dreaming to finish their school and. there were there were no high school in. the villages where where my parents were. born.

So when when I started like Malala Fund. and when I won the Nobel Peace Prize it. came with a with a prize money as well. So I said you know what I am going to. make a school there. Mhm. And it's. considered to be one of the most. difficult areas to work in because it's. up in the mountains and nobody wants to. go and work there but I said if we can. make it happen there I think we can make. it happen in any part of the country. We you know we work we worked on it for. the past 7 8 years. and this year. the first class.

graduated. >> Wow. I went to Pakistan in March I. visited the school for the first time. It was so different than what I had seen. on PowerPoint presentations and in. photos. Uh you know like just just seeing that. in the middle of these of these. mountains there's this beautiful school. where girls. are learning they are. playing they are um talking they're. laughing they are dreaming of having a. future for themselves. Uh it was the.

most rewarding feeling and what I loved. was the the support that they received. like they play chess and it's like a. state-of-the-art school they have all of. these different like activities. It's. it's an incredible school but uh when I. saw the. uh the mental health office. that made me so happy. And the girls. were telling me how they get. mental health support. They sometimes do. these different activities where they. just sing together and dance and. sometimes just scream to let it all out.

Um so when I was just reflecting on my. own mental health journey and how I. wished we had like more support that I. had more support. and and how you know we want more. support for girls. It just gave me so. much joy that the girls were getting the. support that they were uh. that that they deserved. and that they should have. So that was. such a rewarding moment. And it gives me hope that we can make. education a reality for every girl in. every corner of the world and all those.

122 million girls who do not have access. to education. we we can do something for them. We can. we we can ensure that every girl can be. in school. Every girl can complete her. education. First of all, congratulations. I mean. that is such a I can't comprehend or. conceive of just how momentous that is. for you to be able to. open that school and what I love about. your focus is that. there's the academic education but.

there's also that value that you're. putting on the emotional education that. all of these girls require so that they. can truly achieve their full potential. and not be held back. Yeah. Because the. academic qualification gives them access. and as you said. creates more equality. but the emotional education helps them. protect themselves and and and really. stand up for themselves as well. So. that's incredible. I mean. I hope I can visit one day. It sounds. like. >> Yes. I'd love to take you. It sounds.

sounds like such a beautiful place to. Yes. >> to visit where yeah. Yeah. >> Malala, it's been such a privilege and. honor to talk to you honestly. I really. I really mean that. I always knew it. would be. Uh but meeting you and sitting. with you here face-to-face getting the. chance to read your book early, uh it's it's beyond what I expected. It's surpassed all my expectations. Just. the the depth, the grace, uh the humor. with which you carry yourself as well as. >> So, you would give it five stars? >> So and during more more.

Uh we we end every episode of On Purpose. with a final five. These questions have. to be answered in one sen- one word. I. always say one word to one sentence, but. >> But nobody does. >> nobody does it, so we can ignore it, but. one sentence maximum. Uh but Malala, these are your final. five. Okay. The first question is, what. is the best advice you've ever heard or. received? I love it when people make you. feel that they're there for you. You know, their words mean everything to. me. Uh of course, I. um.

you know, I really appreciate that. And. I also offer like words of support to. the girls I meet. And sometimes, you. know, like people roll their eyes like, "Ugh, you know, what can what can they. do to a girl's life?" when you tell. them, "Believe in yourself. Follow your. dreams." but I remember hearing those. words when I was a. uh you know, a child, and it meant. everything to me because some people. give you this hope and this belief that. maybe you can do it, too. So, these. things mean a lot, but I think more than. that, it's it's it's you offering your. support and making somebody feel that.

you are there for them. They're not. alone. Um. I think actions are just way more. powerful. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Loved that answer. And and you're so. right that these clichés are a cliché. for a reason because. you know, when you tell someone you. believe in them, sometimes someone needs. to hear that the most in that moment, and so it can't be undervalued. Uh. question number two, what is the worst. advice you've ever heard or received? Ooh, uh the list is long.

Maybe. getting a French cut. French like bangs. I I it in COVID time. I did it in COVID. time. >> answer. No, it was terrible. It was a. terrible terrible advice that I took. from a friend and. I waited for like 2 years for it to. return to the normal length. That is a brilliant answer. That's so good. >> Heels don't get it if it's not for you, you know. That's that's so good. Uh. question number three. Uh what part of yourself are you still.

learning to love? Woo. Um. I am so ambitious about seeing change. happen in my lifetime. Especially when you receive like so much. recognition and support, I always feel. like. I have received more than what I. deserve. I mean like getting a Nobel Peace Prize. at 17, I can work for the rest of my. life and still feel like I did not.

deserve it because. still millions of girls are out of. school. So. I I would I would keep on questioning. myself like. can we make the change happen? Can we. make it sooner? But. I then remind myself that it's you know. as much as we love to say one person. change the world, even I myself said one. book, one pen can change the world. Um I. think a person can start a change. They. can spark it. But it is the work of.

collective activism that can help us. see the change become a reality. So I just constantly remind myself this, you know, I'm. at times disappointed like why are these. things happening? Um but it's you know, Afghanistan, Gaza, 120 million girls out of school. Child marriage, so many things. But then. I'm like the work is in action. It is. happening. Keep supporting education activists.

Keep doing the advocacy. keep empowering. and uplifting girls' voices, and. and stopping and and, you know, like. and and doubting yourself is is not the. answer. That, you know, you don't want to go. still where where everything stops. So, keep it going, accelerate it. But, it's it's a constant conversation. that I have with myself. Yeah, I'm. taking a slight detour from the final. five cuz you said a couple of things. that. we need to talk about 122 million girls.

world who don't have access to. education. What's the primary reason for that? Or. how does that break down across Yeah, I. mean, you know, there are many reasons. for that. On the one hand, it is. the supply-side issues. So, there are. like not enough schools, there are not. enough safe schools, the quality of. teaching is not good, distance to school is is a big. challenge, safety at school is a big. problem. So, because of all of these. reasons, a girl is not in school. In.

many places, there are not enough high. schools for girls. So, people have. invested enough in primary, but have not. invested enough in the secondary. education of girls. But then, at the. same time, there there are also like. cultural and social norms where, you. know, it's become a taboo where girls. are not allowed to be in school. We're. seeing this happen in Afghanistan. and many other parts of the world where. just education is discouraged for girls. There are just too many restrictions. that girls face. But, I do believe that,

you know, there is a way for us to work towards. solving these problems. And I think it has to start with. investing in education. We have to. address the supply-side issues first. because you want to make a school before. you go and address the more, like, you. know, the social stigma or. or, you know, how how do we change the. mentality? And sometimes those things just happen. naturally. We have seen in many areas, including. my parents' village in Pakistan, where.

once a school was built and a. state-of-the-art. education was provided, the norms started changing themselves. because they saw that. they saw the real power of education, how. these girls are like are, you know, are. having um. these different career paths that they. could achieve. They could not only be. helping themselves, but they could be. helping their families as well. And and. everybody realizes that it's actually a. benefit to the community as well when a.

girl receives her education. There's. economic empowerment, there's more. prosperity, poverty reduces, um. and uh you know, it's it's it's for the. benefit of everybody when girls are. receiving an education. Including men. and boys, it helps men and boys as well. when we have more women educated and. empowered. Talk about that because I. think that's a. that's a challenge that's being talked. about in the West right now, at least. this idea in America that now, if you. look at it, women are more likely to. graduate, they're they're qualifying.

more than men are. And that's an interesting talking point. Talk to us about how women being. educated is actually good for men as. well. Educated and empowered women. actually are helping men in their. families as well. Um I I you know, I do not know about. like every country and every context, but I have seen how. um this shift has happened where, you. know, the the boys were sort of usually. told like you are supposed to be the. breadwinner. The.

girl is married off, but the boys are. supposed to be taking care of the. family. But if the girl is also able to. get her education, she can also. contribute to the family, it reduces the. burden that is expected from the boys, um. and that everybody's contributing to to. to the family, and if everybody can look. after each other as well. We have also. seen that when like more women are. educated um and there are open. conversations about you know the role of. men and like challenging gender. stereotypes that can like help us have.

better you know feminist men or like men. who. appreciate. women's rights and they're like. so you know we need we need better sons. we need better brothers we need better. husbands and fathers as well so you know. I think. working for girls education is is sort. of a way in which we can have more. productive and helpful conversations and. see this cultural shift and at the same. time like when we talk about investing.

in girls education and talk about policy. change that. it also directly benefits boys education. it's never about like investing girls. schools only it's about investing every. school but let's come up with gender. inclusive policy so we are addressing. the problems that specifically cause. girls to drop out or that can help us. ensure that a girl makes it to the next. year in her school. and and it can also help us you know. when it's gender inclusive it can also.

address the problems that boys are also. facing. Wonderful answer uh. how. how prevalent is child marriage still? Yeah I mean. child marriage is is still a big issue. in in many countries and. sometimes you know we sort of see news. how the law is also being reversed I. think I heard about it happening in. I think Iraq. which is like really crazy I think it. should it should be a law in every.

country where. like you know a child should not be. married off it should be just illegal it. should be banned and people who do it. should be held accountable for that and. at the same time we need to sort of. change change and challenge the culture. around it as well so you know, using. storytelling, TV shows, and stuff like. that can also help us. um. to to change to change these. perspectives. But, it's it's an it's an. issue that is affecting many girls like. including in in Pakistan, India, and.

other parts of the world. Yeah, couldn't. agree with you more. Thank you for those. two parts I'll put into the episode. accordingly. I took a little detour. Uh. question number four of the final five, what does peace look like for you today? So, when you asked about peace, I just. think about world peace immediately. Um. because I have lived under a time when. we used to hear gunshots and suicide. attacks and bombings and.

you know, like every 10 minutes you. would you would hear a sound and you. were just worried like whose house has. been targeted, who has lost their life. So, when somebody asks me about peace, I. don't think about like. you know, peace at heart or you know, being at peace with yourself. I. immediately think about world peace. And I you know, I I just I hope. bombings, I hope. wars stop. You know, we have to speak. out against it. Um.

You know, you know, what I have. experienced personally and and how I. have seen other girls and boys being. targeted at school um. and and you know, how they have lost. their loved ones, how. they themselves have been injured. I met. uh Palestinian refugees in Egypt just a. few weeks ago and I just saw like you. know, they they were injured, they had. lost a sibling. They they were separated from their. family members. It is just heartbreaking. how.

um. absence of peace. uh is is is taking away. the right to life from from so many. people. They cannot live a normal life. that we all. um you know, most of us are are are. privileged to have. So, when I am at. moments when I. I'm just like looking outside the window. and I. and I see a normal life. I'm like, okay, you know, there are normal cars and. people are walking around and. and people are chatting and laughing.

and and and there's no bombing, no. firing, buildings are not destroyed. I I just uh. feel grateful. Mhm. Um but I I wish that. for everybody. I think it has to stop. These are all human-made things. They're. not happening itself. These are. human-made. We have to really question. ourselves about the hatred that is. created, these hateful ideologies that. are created, how people are being. dehumanized. Like the dehumanization of.

of people is a very big problem. That's. where it begins and that's what worries. me the most when I think about like, you. know, what's happening to women and. girls in Afghanistan. And they're being. considered as second-class humans. When we think about these different wars. that are happening or what's happening. in Gaza, it's you know, it's like the. dehumanization. Um so, uh you know, I hope that. people see each other as equal. Uh. we see, you know,

we see ourselves in in in other people. um and we you know, stand up to this you. know, these arms and these like violent tools. that are being spread in the world. Um because. it's it's it's a big problem. So, I I. wish for real world peace and then that. would give me peace. um and I would feel more at peace with. my with myself. Mhm. What would you say to a young girl who. looks at the state of the world and.

doesn't feel hopeful right now? I would tell her, you know, I felt that many times. I. still feel it. Many times. But then I remind myself that there's. something that I can do today. Um. I feel. that we all have. the capacity to drive for change. So. sometimes we want the world to change. We want somebody else to make it happen. Um. but. we cannot wait for it to happen itself.

or for somebody else to do it for us. Sometimes it's us. who can be that change-maker. So I don't want you to lose hope. So I don't want you to lose hope and. I. want you to know that you could be. the change-maker. You could shift things and you could. drive change. Fifth and final question we ask this to. every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that.

everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? One law? You know, I'm not like uh. that aggressive. I'm not authoritarian. Though I have a lot of laws and rules. for my husband and my brothers. and my dad. A lot of rules for men. Maybe we should just have just rules for. men who cause a lot of problems. I mean, I you know. I do see the significance of creating.

laws on the one hand because you know, what's happening in Afghanistan is. beyond just gender discrimination. And. if we look at the current laws in the. international. uh system, it cannot recognize the scale of the. oppression that is happening there. So. that's exactly why Afghan women. activists are advocating uh for it to be. recognized as a gender apartheid in the. crime against humanity treaty, which. basically means is that like countries.

should not just be allowed to uh look. away or normalize relationships with the. Taliban or just simply condemn it and. just feel like okay, you know, we have. done our job. That countries should be. obliged. to respond and countries should be held. accountable to respond and they cannot. be allowed to normalize relationships. with oppressive regimes like the. Taliban. So, I I think, you know, better. laws are really important. We just need. more protection for for for girls'. rights and right now.

it is a crime for girls to be learning. in Afghanistan. Let's process that. They're punished if they disobey this. rule because the Taliban are abusing. their power and they're punishing women, putting them in prisons if they disobey. any of their absurd rules and. restrictions that they have imposed. But. on the other hand. if we look at our international law. system. it is not recognizing what the Taliban. are doing as a crime.

I I think the the ban on education in. itself should be recognized as an. international crime and the Taliban. should be held accountable for that. So, I do believe that there is. huge significance in creating laws that. can protect the right to education for. girls and that can protect the rights of. women and vulnerable. communities. At the same time, I also. think it's about. you know, how how we change as people. and how we. do things differently and how we.

challenge ourselves. You know, we don't. need we don't necessarily need laws to. be acting differently. Like, you know, the most powerful thing is free will. Mhm. And we all have the free will to be. better, to be doing the right thing. Um. we don't necessarily need laws. So, sometimes I just also think about us. doing better. and and just being more responsible, standing up for what is right, standing. against injustices, and sharing.

solidarity with those who are oppressed. and who need our support. Malala, thank you so much for It wasn't. one word, right? >> That wasn't It was brilliant. It was. Thank you so much for writing this book, Finding My Way. Thank you for coming and. sharing it with our community here. today. And thank you for having the courage to. continue to find courage in all your. different transitions and phases of. life. I Thank you. It feels like you've. lived. a million different lives in, you know,

the short span that you've been here on. Earth, but. your words, your actions, your work. affects millions and millions and. millions of people every day. >> Thank you. I just want to say one final. thing that, you know, we talked about a. lot of things. I have. talked about many topics, but one thing. that I feel like people don't know about. me is that I am a very funny person. That came across. Yes, I want people to. know that, you know, in this book, of. course, I'm talking about. very important topics, but humor is.

something that has helped me through. life in many ways, and. humor is everything to me. So, I laugh. through many things. I laugh about many. things. And so, you know, you will learn. a lot about this book, but you will also. be, you know, you know, laughing with me or, you know, at you. Yeah, or at me. Just so you know, the first thing Malala. said to me when she came in the room. today, she was like, "Your wife's a lot. cooler than you." And I was like, "Yeah, my wife's amazing." She goes, "Yeah, you. don't even need to say that out loud." I.

was like, "Wow, I'm being roasted. already." No, I think your humor has. shown through in so many moments today, and it's. It's It's a beautiful part of who you. are, and I'm so glad you're sharing it. And And I'm so glad you're showing us. what a full human looks like, Thank you. >> the symbol, beyond a. a role you play, but but what it means. to have Yeah. and relationships in in. our lives. >> no, this is me reintroducing myself and. the most important thing is being true.

to yourself. That is the most important. message from me. Thank you, Malala. I'm so grateful. Thank you so much. Thank you. If you. enjoyed this podcast, you're going to. love my conversation with Michelle. Obama, where she opens up on how to stay. with your partner when they're changing. and the four check-ins you should be. doing in your relationship. We also talk. about how to deal with relationships. when they're under stress. If you're. going through something right now with. your partner or someone you're seeing,

this is the episode for you. No wonder. our kids are struggling. We have a new. technology and we've just taken it in. hook, line, and sinker. And we have to. be mindful for our kids. They'll just be. thumbing through this stuff, you know, their their minds never sleeping.