LUCY GUO: The Most Common Success Advice That's Secretly Holding You Back

I think that being delusional is. necessary to be a founder. You really. have to believe I'm going to be part of. the point zero one percent that is. actually going to build a unicorn. >> What advice are people being told about. success that you think is outdated? >> I think that college is no longer. needed. That means that I believe that. your network is your net worth [music]. and there's no better place to go than. college to expand your network. >> So you're saying go to college, but. don't go there for the degree. >> Exactly. >> How do you think the best ideas are. found? >> Ideas are cheap and execution is.

everything. >> Hey everyone, welcome back to On. Purpose. Today I'm sitting down with. Lucy Guo, entrepreneur, investor, co-founder of Scale AI, and one of the. youngest self-made female billionaires. in the world. Today we dive into the new. rules of success, why speed has been our. greatest advantage, and how AI is. reshaping opportunity. Please welcome to. On Purpose, Lucy Guo. Lucy, I am so.

happy to be with you here because not. only do we know each other a little bit. offline, we've been to some pretty crazy. places together. So I saw you last year. on Luminara, on the yacht trip, which. was amazing. >> Yes. >> And then I saw you at my house where we. did a fundraiser event. Then I saw you. at the Dior party. It's I feels like our. lives have just been mashed. >> and now we're seeing each other in. Cannes next week. >> Yeah, exactly. [laughter] It's awesome, but. >> Thank you for having me. >> Oh no, I'm so excited for my audience to. learn from you. I think that right now.

we're living at such an exciting time. where so many young people are driven, they're ambitious, they want to do. incredible things. You've already lived. that, you've done it. You're going on to. do more. I know you've shared some ideas. with me. So I can't wait to get inside. your brain today. This is going to be. fun. >> Yeah. I wanted to ask you the first. question I have for you is. what advice are people being told about. success today that you think is. outdated? >> I still think that college is extremely. outdated. I think that we're taught to.

go study and then get a traditional job. Um but especially in the world of AI, I. think that college is no longer needed. That being said, I believe that your. network is your net worth and there's no. better place to go than college to. expand your network. Because college is. really the first time and only time in. your life where you're going to be. thrown into a world where everyone wants. to make friends. No one knows each. other, right? So everyone's open to this. like emotional connection. I always tell. people like I actually think one to two. years of college is extremely useful. because that is where you're going to.

build your network and you're going to. build the deepest network. Because you. know, your most talented friends are. always going to get these like. multi-million dollar job offers straight. out of college. But um if you're able to. have that emotional connection, like. everything is sales. From retaining your. employees to selling them to get you. them to join your company. And uh. college is the best place where you can. like really build that emotional. connection because everyone is open to. it. Afterwards, like you may go work at. a company, you may join like, you know, different uh. like interest groups, etc. But uh it's.

just not at the same density as. colleges. >> So you're saying go to college, but. don't go there for the degree. >> Exactly. Yes. >> there for the networking, the groups of. people, the emotional connections, practicing things. >> And I think colleges are really great. place, especially in classes to like. learn a lot and learn how to think. But. you should apply those skills to. practical skill sets or you should apply. the skills that you learn into practical. use cases. So I would learn how to think. in these classes and then I would start.

using AI tools, right? And really. accelerate what you can do and be that. like 10X executor earlier on in life. >> Where did you go to college again? >> I went to Carnegie Mellon. >> Did you go to college with anyone that. you're still friends with? What are What. are your peers doing now? Like what else. have they done? >> Straight out of college, I had actually. hired um the smartest people that I met. So like, you know, my TA, my computer. science little like, had this like It's. not a sorority little, but like within. this YES program. because they were just like top of their. class, right? So, that was a little. perfect example of like, "Hey, this is.

emotional sales, and this is emotional. retention.". When I had dropped out, I'd actually met. a lot of people within the college. network, not my specific university, but. like within the United States through. hackathons. So, I'm still friends with. them, and these are people that I've. actually invested into after like, you. know, hiring them. They went on to go. build their own companies. So, I think that's just a perfect. example of like how they were ready to. like, you know, open up and be friends. with me, and by maintaining those. connections, I was able to hire them as. my employees, retain them, and then. support them when they went to go build. their own companies.

>> Wow, that that's so fascinating that you. were able to not only maintain those. relationships, but they become mutually. beneficial for everyone. And it's a really unique way to look at. college, actually, because I think right. now you have the anti-college agenda, and then [clears throat] you have people. saying you have to go to college because. of the old reason. So, it's an. interesting one. I also wanted to ask. you, what's a habit that you think. ambitious people think is going to make. them successful, but actually is slowing. them down or holding them back? >> So, this is actually probably an.

interesting one. I think that ambitious. people have this mindset like, "I want. to learn from the smartest people,". because that makes sense, right? So, they gather all the mentors that they. have possible, and then they enter. paralysis when it comes to. decision-making. So, they ask all the. mentors around them instead of listening. to like their own gut. And if I had done. that, Skill actually would have never. started because I had a decision. paralysis when I was deciding whether. leave Snapchat versus go build a. company. I gathered all my mentors. I. asked them, like, "Do you think I should. stay at Snap or go do my own thing?" And.

every single one of them, and I mean. every single one of them, told me to. stay at Snap because Snap was in its. hyper-growth stage, and like it was, you. know, about to go public. People thought. I was absolutely insane given that I was. on this extremely special team with only. 10 people, and I think I would have. entered decision paralysis if I were to. have listened to my mentors. So, I ended. up just listening to my gut and. optimizing for learning instead because. I did feel like my learning had become. stagnant at the company. But, I think. that extremely smart people constantly. want to learn from others, so they find.

the smartest people and they ask almost. too many questions. It's better to make. an imperfect decision, but move forwards. because you can change your path than to. enter decision paralysis. >> I feel like any good decision I made in. my life has often been opposed to some. of the smartest people in my life. because you feel it internally. >> Exactly. And I think investments are. very similar, right? Because you have to. go against the grain to make a good. investment. Like Airbnb, I think is a. great example and Uber is a great. example. Like no one thought it would.

work, but the investors that thought it. was worth they went against the grain. And I think that's when the best. decisions are made. >> Did you have to give up like did you. have equity? Did you give up stock. shares? Like were you giving up like a. ton of money too to go and do your own. thing? >> So, I was giving up a lot of money. I. wouldn't call it life-changing money for. me per se, but I think it was. life-changing money for other people, especially cuz Snap's vesting schedule. at that point was like 10 20 30 40, um. which is a very unique vesting schedule. So, um that meant that I was leaving the. majority of my equity on the table. >> Wow, so you would have had to really. feel a sense of inner confidence that.

you had an idea. >> This goes back to you are like the. average of the people you hang around. with. And because I was in this Tier. Fellowship network and all my peers were. uh founders that had either raised tens. of millions of dollars or had built. billion-dollar companies, um I really. did believe that I could be one of those. people. Um I think that being delusional. is necessary to be a founder because if. you're building a venture-scalable. business, you really have to believe. like I'm going to make it. I'm going to. be part of the 0.01% that's actually.

going to build a unicorn. Um I do think. that there are other businesses like. lifestyle businesses that are much more. easier to become successful because. you're not shooting for the stars, right? Like if you're making like less. than a hundred million a year for. venture, that's not great. But, if. you're doing that like ten million a. year as an individual, like that can. support you for the rest of your life. >> If you were 22, you had no money, no followers, and you. felt like you had no connections, what. would you do in the next 30 days to. change the trajectory of your life?

>> If I were 22, I would actually go live. on campus at different colleges because. I feel like I would be young enough to. do so where I could pass off as a. college student. That's actually how I. was able to gain kind of a network. outside of just Carnegie Mellon, where I had lived on Menlo Avenue at USC. and like kind of just hung out out at. USC as like a student. I was like, you. know, in San Francisco and I was hanging. out at Stanford as like a student per. se. And when you blend in the college. community, like you will just start.

getting invited to things whether it's. like fraternity parties or hackathons, etc. I would also like definitely continue to. go to hackathons because hackathons are. great. It attracts a certain type of. student that wants to do something over. the weekend that doesn't involve. partying, right? Like, they are side. questing to build and learn. And when. you go to these hackathons, generally. like all the surrounding colleges go as. well. So, like MHacks attracted like. pretty much all the East Coast colleges. So did Penn Hacks, so did HackMIT. So, you're not only meeting people from that. college, but all the smartest students.

from different universities. >> So wait, you were. you weren't pretending to go to other. colleges, you were just hanging out at. other colleges. >> Pretty much, yeah. >> [laughter]. >> And so then you got the benefit of. building your network in those colleges, too. >> Yeah. >> Did you do that because it was fun or. did you do that because you knew it. would pay off in the long run? Like, what was your mindset as a 22 I guess. when you were at college you were. younger than that. What was your mindset. as a college student? >> Specifically when I had dropped out, and this app completely failed before.

the Thiel Fellowship, I was going to build DoorDash actually. I built DoorDash at a hackathon and then. um, between the hackathon and when I. decided to go build a company, uh, DoorDash got built. So, I was like, great, I need a twist on it, right? So, the twist was, okay, let's have people. cook food for other students and deliver. it versus restaurants. This has many, many issues starting from like food. safety. It's completely illegal, whatever. But, I launched at Carnegie. Mellon and it did well and I was like, great, I need to like expand other. colleges. So, that was the mindset in. going to live in other colleges and.

like, you know, really get in the. community so I can convince other. college students at these universities. to cook food for like, their fellow. students. And college is a really great. place to do it because, um, cuz it's so. high density. Like, you could just make. a batch of cookies, for example, and run. around campus and deliver it to hundreds. of students. Um, people were making like. $100 an hour. It was great. Yeah. >> That's crazy. >> illegal. Don't do it. Don't build it. I. mean, you will. >> How did you feel when you create. your version of DoorDash at a hackathon. and then you see the real idea happen?

>> Honestly, I think that ideas are cheap. and execution is everything. So, for me, it's like, okay, cool, whatever, right? Like, Uber wasn't the first, but they. executed extremely well. So, um, I. didn't like feel any resentment. I was. like, okay, cool, like, this is a great. app I can use. Like, let me think of. something else. >> Yeah, I think that's what's so. fascinating about high achievers like. you where a lot of people think that the. idea is the value and when you see. someone do it, you're like, oh, I could. have done it. I could have done that. And it's like, well, no, not really. because actually what it showed you is. you got out a good idea. Someone went.

and did it already, but that means you. could find another good idea. >> Exactly. There's literally billions of. people on this earth. Like, uh, people. have ideas all the time. Like, people. execute all the time. Like, you can. easily hire a developer in India, etc. Get it done cheap. Now, you can use AI. and like, use Lovable, Replit, etc. and. like, develop your idea. But, um, execution is everything. >> Where do you think young people waste. most of their time when they're building. their career? >> I think young people are wasting most of. their time working at these larger. companies, um, because they have golden. handcuffs. Because when you're smart,

you're literally getting paid millions. of dollars per year, right? Which is. extremely hard to let go of. When you. want to leave, they add in stock. They. add in cash. They add in bonuses. Um I. know some of the most talented people. that. I think could have built unicorn. companies that ended up just staying at. Snapchat for 10 years because they just. kept on getting equity packages, which I. understand from their perspective cuz it. is like, you know, life-changing money. over the course of the 10 years. Like. you're making like what, eight figures? I don't want to say they sold cuz the.

work is still interesting, but they're. trading off what is like extremely. life-changing money, like generational. wealth, and like working on something. that they want to do, like that one. project passion idea that they have, in. exchange for cash. >> But do you think everyone could be an. entrepreneur? >> I think everyone can be a certain type. of entrepreneur. It just depends like. how much of an entrepreneur do you want. to be? Like, are you trying to build a. $5,000 a month business? Like, yeah, anyone can do that. My friend literally. prompted a chat to create a business. with like a $50 budget, and it actually.

created a business that makes I think a. few thousand a month. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Yeah. The research it found a. domain name, it designed a really crappy. logo. >> [laughter]. >> I think that like anyone can be an. entrepreneur, but like what kind of. entrepreneur like what level are you. trying to like shoot for in the sky? >> I guess the people that you're saying. like they could have quit their job, and. I guess and golden handcuffs of course. there's different levels of it. >> Yes. >> So even where I grew up, I remember. I was trying to leave my consulting job, which felt like golden handcuffs at the.

time. I was making like 45,000 pounds a. year, and that felt like golden. handcuffs at the time because I was. like, that at least pays my bills and. pays for my rent. I don't know what I do. without it. When someone's in that position, how. should they consider the next move? Like. do you just quit and go all in? Do you. come up with an idea first? Like, how do. you think about the phases and. trajectory of building something when. you have golden handcuffs? >> What I had personally done was I was. working on side projects and after I.

received investor interest, that's when. I said I'm going to quit and go build. Um, I think that when people hedge too. much as an investor, I don't think. they're serious. Where they want the. money inside their bank before they. actually quit their job. So, I would say. work on weekends or like, you know, after work, work on side projects, like. get some traction because that traction. will turn into investor money, but you. don't really want to tell investors like. "I haven't really quit my job yet.". because it will make them feel All.

right, you can say that, but you should. make it known that whether or not you. get the money, you will quit your job. Or at least just say that. I don't know. Because I think you don't want them to. think that you're not serious. >> I think people always get caught between. that kind of like catch-22 of like, do. you quit first and then you find what. you want to do or do you find what you. want to do and then build it? >> It is a sacrifice to de-risk, but. de-risking does make sense. So, if. you're able to work on your side. projects over the weekend, after work, etc. Like, yeah, you won't be spending. as much time with your friends, but.

you're also de-risking. your life essentially. And I do think. that like once you have an MVP with. traction, which you don't need to quit. your full-time job to get, like you will. be able to fundraise. >> How do you think the best ideas are. found? >> I think the best ideas are found when. you're solving a problem for yourself. because there's so many people in the. world that if you're building for. yourself, other people are going to have. that problem. And then whether or how. large of a company it can be is just a. function of how many people also have. your problem and how much are they. willing to pay. But you'll know exactly.

what to build and then you'll be able to. use the product yourself and be able to. figure out which features to build or. what needs to like, how to innovate, etc. So, I think the best companies that. I've invested in and the best companies. that I have built have all been problems. that I've solved for myself. >> And that's where people should start. >> Absolutely. >> I think today everyone's now thinking. how do you build the next billion-dollar. company? >> And that's almost like the most counter. >> dollar company might just be like a. small problem that you're solving for. yourself, but you decide to expand on. the idea afterwards.

>> I've heard you say, Lucy, that your. biggest advantage is your speed. And I wanted to ask you, what's a. decision that people waste 6 months on. in business that they should figure out. in 6 minutes? >> So, I think the thing that people waste. the most time on is actually just. product development and like design. Um. because when you go to a large company. and you see how long it takes to design. small features, it could be months to. years. Um because they want the UX to be. perfect, but like a common misconception. is that UX needs to be perfect for a. product to be adopted. I actually highly.

disagree. People will go through bad UX. People will deal with bugs if they want. the product badly enough. Like for. example, let's say there's a. the new iPhone, right? And like you're. checking it out and it just keeps on. bugging and it's like, "Okay, cool. Like. the payment didn't go through. The. payment didn't go through." You're going. to keep keep clicking that payment. button like 100 times until it goes. through. Like you're dealing with the. bad bugs because you want the product. badly enough. So, I believe the best. thing to do is just release 90%. Like. you can design I think 90% good UX in 1. to 2 days. And then just have the.

engineers build it, ship it, and then. see if it's adopted. If it's adopted, then iterate on it until it's a good. product. There's a very very few. products I think that need perfect UX. for it to get adopted. Um most products. out there are like if people want it, they'll buy it. People feel like they. need to build the full product in order. to sell it. But my philosophy has always. been like create landing pages. Like if. you're building a B2B SaaS product, like. make a landing page and start doing. calls. See if you can get LOI signed. If. it's like a low enough price point, see.

if people enter their credit cards to. like save a spot on like the page. Um if. you're building like even a like D2C. product, I say sell it and then see how. much you actually need to produce. And. if you're late on orders, just give the. customer another free like t-shirt or. something or whatever you're building to. make them feel happy and like not be. upset that the order was late. That way. you're actually testing demand for the. product before wasting so much money and. so much time developing just for it to. flop. >> So many people I see when they're. launching something they're spending all. the time on the logo and the font and.

the color and all these types of things. And actually you're saying well, put it. out then see if people even sign up and. even care about it. And if they do then. you've got all the time and money now to. actually go and build the real thing. What what's our addiction to. perfectionism? Like why do we do that? >> I almost think it's an excuse. I think. that people believe that something needs. to be perfect in order for it to work. and when it's not perfect they blame it. on the fact that it's not perfect. And I. see this with tech founders all the time. too where it's like okay cool like we.

just need to AB test our way into it. being perfect for the product to work. but sometimes the sum of all parts. doesn't equal a whole, right? Like you. can AB test to have higher sign up rates. than like higher like engagement etc. But at the end of the day like there's. only so much that I can fix. Like you. probably need an entirely new feature. which is not really AB testable. Yeah, I. think that it it really is just an. excuse. >> What's the difference between a good. risk and a bad risk? >> I mean I think it's all a function of. like um what are the consequences,

right? I generally believe that a lot of. products could not have been created. without taking risks. So for example. like I think Uber obviously didn't. really listen to anyone and um they. became so big that now it just exists. I. was actually talking to the Stripe. founders and I don't remember what rule. they broke but even Stripe apparently. broke some rules and then they just. became too big to fail and like they. just had to make it work. So yeah it it. it's a function of just consequences.

>> But how do you evaluate that when you. don't know cuz I guess we all start. thinking oh god if I do this then the. opportunity cost is this or this is the. risk level. >> I generally evaluate just based on like. two criteria, which is like is this. going to be life-changing for me and am. I optimizing for learning? Because if. I'm not optimizing for learning, I'm. just not going to do it. Because I think. that the knowledge I gain during the. next thing, even if I like, you know, lost a few million, that's not for. example. Like I was going to learn. enough being a founder that I can take.

those skill sets and like, you know, either go get a new job that pays me. better and I'll be more successful in my. role or build another company. And then. the life-changing money thing was also. just kind where I was like, okay, like. this doesn't necessarily change my life, so it's not worth my time. >> There's something that we can all use in. in pretty much any decision. >> Always optimize for learning. >> That's such a big one because it's. almost like we want to optimize for. success. >> Mhm. >> But you're saying optimize for learning. and that would lead to success, exactly. >> Yeah, like everyone always complains.

like, oh, it's such a big risk to like, you know, quit college or it's such a. big risk to like quit this job to build. a company. But it's not like you are. losing your knowledge and skill sets, right? If anything, you come out the up, let's call it like a $10 million a year. job, but guess what? You'll probably get. a $20 million a year job. And I also. think that people underestimate like how. much like people want talent, which. obviously we saw with Meta, right? Paying like nine figures for AI. employees. I think that even if your. company fails, if you hire talented.

people and you yourself are talented, there will be someone that will buy your. company for more like than your. investors invested at that evaluation. because they know you want to make your. investors whole and they know that you. want money. And for the talent, they'll. overpay. >> I keep thinking about my life and it was. it was much smaller than that. Like I. said, the amount I was making, but. making a pivot, companies were so good at making you. feel like, no, but you built a network. here, you should stay here. Like there's. such a culture of.

making you feel like you're going to. fail if you move on. And I think people. believe that. People buy into that. How. do we break out of buying into the fact. that we actually think if we lose a. $100,000 a year job, then we're going to. end up with a $70,000 a year job. We. don't think we're going to be able to. triple it or quadruple it. >> Yeah, I mean, I think that is just. again, your network is your net worth. and you are the average of the people. that you hang around with. So, I was. really uh lucky to hang out with.

founders that have done it before. So, I. knew like how it actually went. Uh I was. lucky enough to hang out with investors. who, you know, they would give exploding. term sheets, but they would also tell. me, "Oh, exploding term sheets are the. thing. Like if the founder came back, we. would just give them the term sheet. again.". >> Yeah. >> People's fear is overcoming their logic. Yeah. Because logically, it's like, "Why. would I not be able to get this job. back?" Like if I was valuable to the. company, they're going to want me again. And let's say for whatever reason the. role is filled. I mean, companies find.

roles for people all the time when they. think the person is Swiss Army knife and. like smart and will be able to help the. company. They'll like make a role for. that person, right? Uh but also there's. so many companies out there that will. hire you based off of the fact that like. you did great job at like company A. Like company B is going to want you and. company B will fight for you and like. understand that now you have more. knowledge and more skill sets. So, they'll pay you more. Uh this is really. people's fear overriding their logic. >> Everyone says find your passion. What's. your take? >> I think you should do what you're best.

at to have the highest impact on your. passion. So, for example, like I really. like nonprofits and supporting. charities. But at one point in time, I. thought like I'm going to start my own. nonprofit and charity and foundation. And you know, that might still happen, but I also realized like at this age in. this state of my life, I'm really good. at making money. So, my time is probably. the best spent making money and then. donating to causes that I care about and. being run by people that actually know. how to run an organization or a. foundation. I don't know how to run a.

charity and like I had actually looked. into this where I'm like, I'm going to. start a foundation, I'm going to do X, Y, and Z. And I realized how much of. work it is, right? And like, how it's. like quite literally another full-time. job. Like, maybe when I'm older, I'll. like learn all those skill sets, and. then I'll decide like my time is best. spent doing that as my passion. But, I think optimize for fun. Fun doesn't. necessarily need to be your passion, but. like optimize for like how you can make. an impact in whatever you're passionate. about. >> But, that feels hard, right? Because. people are like, for example, when I was. growing up, I was passionate about.

soccer. >> Mhm. >> What do I do with that? Cuz I can't be a. soccer player, cuz I'm not good enough. So, then what do I do? >> But, you can make enough money to buy a. soccer team. >> [laughter]. >> And then you can go to every soccer game. and have so much fun. >> Right. So, you're saying that it doesn't. have to be your career, but you may go. build a career doing something else, but. then use the fruits of that labor to. then be closer to your passion. >> like, if you're able to experience your. passion, that's what's going to make you. happy, right? Like, it doesn't have to. be your full-time job. Well, I guess now. music is my career-ish, and my side. class, but I just use everything that I.

had succeeded in, and like, you know, the money I had created to go experience. music and like live events, and that. made me extremely happy. I use like what. I've been able to create that helps. support causes that I care about, which. has made me extremely happy. I don't. think that needs to be your full-time. career, and like, for most people it's. not going to be their full-time career, because like, in certain fields, like, even no matter how talented you are, some of it is just luck, right? Like, I'll never really understand the music. industry or the acting industry, because. I have so many talented friends in it,

and it just, for whatever reason, they're not making it. And I really do. think it's because. there's other factors like network, luck, etc. in that. >> Yeah, yeah. But, I like what you're. saying that people often say pursue your. passion, or make it your work. But, actually what you're saying is just go. work, do the thing, and then connect. your passion. And that feels much more. realistic for most people. Like, I think. for the majority of people, there are. very few people who can can what they. love, and it makes money. But, actually. being free to the idea that you can do.

something not hopefully that you don't. hate. >> Yeah, hopefully that you don't hate. >> Hopefully that you don't hate, but you. do something, and that something gets. you to be able to be closer to all of. these things that you love, which I. think is a is a much more genuine, authentic path for most people. Like, people can aspire to live that way. >> Exactly. >> And like you said, now you're closer to. music, charities. What were you. passionate about? Like, if you could. have done something Like, for me, I. could I would've been a soccer player if. I could have like if I was good enough. What would you have done if you could. have? >> Well, it's changed over the years. So, when I was younger, I wanted to be a.

singer, but I realized I'm basically. tone deaf, and I can't sing for my life. So, that was out the window. And then, I. remember when I was like, you know, choosing colleges, etc., I was like, it. would be really cool to like be an FBI. agent and like fight the bad guys. Um, but then. that's unrealistic because I like this. tiny woman, and you know, maybe I could. learn, you know, some kung fu skills, but like overall, let's call it. unrealistic, right? And then, I got. really passionate about music, and um, I. finally learned I can actually DJ. You. don't need.

to be able to sing or play the. instruments, etc., to be able to DJ. So, it's been like a very cool thing that. I've been able to do. >> How do you at this stage in your career, how do you separate self-worth from net. worth? >> This is really interesting. So, I was. not a confident person until I went to. Miami. And then, when I went to Miami, I. just became friends with all these. people cuz uh they just like my energy, right? Like, I would just see standing. in an elevator, and people would come in. and be like, "I felt your energy from. far away, blah blah blah." It was the. first time in my life where like I met. people that were just like me, casa su.

casa, with no questions. Um, there's no. agenda. And I think in the past, like in. LA, San Francisco, New York, there's. always like some sort of agenda. People. are like they want to know who I was. It's like, "Oh, you're a Teal Fellow. Let me be friends with you." Or "You're. a founder. Oh, you have a fund." Um, Miami was the first time in my life. where no one asked what I did, and they. just wanted to vibe with me cuz I gave. off good energy. So, I became extremely. happy there. Um and I think my. self-worth is based off of that, where, you know, I have a close relationship. with my family again. I'm close with my.

friends. Um and every time I meet. someone, like that's a stranger that has. no idea who I am, they're just like, "Wow, your energy is so vibey. Let's. dance." Um and that makes me happy cuz. it's like it shows people like me for me. versus like my net worth. Um versus like. I don't think I had that purity before I. had experienced it in Miami. >> Entrepreneurially and professionally, what's something that. you thought would go your way, but. turned into a rejection or a failure? >> Honestly, like I'm not someone uh that.

sits and weeps. Like I've never really. sat and felt sad. So, um unless, you. know, like a close friend is hurt. Like. I hear bad news from a close friend. But. like for myself, whenever I face. rejection, I'm like, "Okay, cool. On to. the next." So, I've never like felt. extremely hurt. One of the more like sad. ones might have just been when I was so. close to like my top VC choice. Like I. was like, "I'm 100% going to get a term. sheet. Like they're wining and dining. me. They just flew out to meet me." And.

then it was just like out of the nowhere. it was a no, right? And I was like, "What in the world happened?" Yeah, I. was just like I felt a little bit led. on, but also like I didn't really sit. and feel bad about it. I was like, "Okay, cool. On to the next. Let's find. a new lead.". >> Do you think that mindset's. integral and important at that level, like. >> I think that being an extremely positive. person that's constantly optimistic is. what has gotten me to where I am today. I think the worst thing you can do is. think like, "Oh, like the world is.

unfair. Um why did this happen to me?". Stop thinking that way. Like everyone is. born with advantages and disadvantages. You kind of just have to take what you. have and go forwards. And if you face. rejection, um just learn from it and. immediately like go and fix. >> That mindset obviously worked for you. You've made so much money. >> Uh-huh. >> You've become such a success story. What. problems did money take away? And what. problems stayed or got worse?

>> When I first started out before I had. any money, I was like couch surfing all. the time. But I like didn't have. anything to compare with. Like I. actually loved couch surfing. It was. fun. You get to meet a lot of people. Like I found couches extremely comfy. It. was like to the point where I had an. apartment, I had a bed, and I would. sleep on the couch. So like [laughter]. that was like nothing but like any. stresses of money like went away, right? Um but I also think that like what it. can cause is you become a little bit too. comfortable, which isn't great. >> incredible entrepreneurs, people that.

you've worked with early days at Snap. What do you think is the most surprising. thing you've noticed about the people at. the top? Something that we'd be. surprised or shocked to know. >> I think the people at the top are. actually not the smartest people in the. world at all. I think that they lack. frameworks. And because they lack. frameworks, they don't understand the. concept of like how the world works, um. which is actually very good because. startups are built when you break. frameworks um because you innovate, right? Um which is why when you take.

someone in an industry that's been an. industry for decades and hire them in, often times like they don't innovate cuz. they're like things have to be done this. way because things have always been done. this way. And again, Airbnb, Uber, great. examples of this. They weren't transport. experts, they weren't real estate. experts. So they didn't have a framework. of like how things are supposed to be. Um I think the people at the top. completely lack frameworks um because. they didn't have decades of experience. And because of that, um they were able. to innovate, but also they tell their. employees. Like their employees might be. like, "That's impossible." And they're.

like, "I don't care." And their. employees might be PhDs and they're. like, "No, literally. I've been doing. this for 20 years. I have multiple PhDs. This is impossible." And they'll just. like, "No, it's not. Go do it." Um and. they will say things like, "Okay, whoever does it gets this like giant. bonus. Whoever does this gets promoted, etc." And when people see that prize, that's when people like really force. themselves to break the framework that. they know, because they're so desperate. to like get that thing that was offered. to them. I would say like when you look. at the people at the top, they're not.

the most educated, really. I think that. in general they have high EQ. Some of. them don't have high EQ, but they force. the impossible to be possible. >> You're reminding me of that great. conversation between Steve Wozniak and. Steve Jobs. So, Steve Wozniak goes up to Steve Jobs. and he goes, "What do you even do? You're not a coder, you're not a. marketer, you're not a salesperson, you're not an engineer. What do you even. do?" And Steve Jobs replies, he says, "Musicians play their instruments. I. play the orchestra.". And it's such a powerful statement.

because he doesn't know how to do all. the bits and bobs. He just He's like, "All I know how to do is put it all. together and get it to all work in. harmony, but I don't really know. everything." And I think people when. they're on their journey, they feel. like, "I'm not smart enough. I don't. know enough. I should be more. experienced.". So, what's that balance then with you. know nothing about an industry, which is. a not having a framework is a positive. thing. But then what is different about that. entrepreneur that you don't know. anything about the industry, you break.

all the rules, that's what makes you. successful? >> I think it's also being visionary. Like, I think Steve Jobs is actually a great. example of this where he told his team. like, "I don't care if it's impossible, you're going to figure it out, right?" I. think Elon Musk has told and seen this, etc., etc. Because they lack the frameworks to like. really understand like this is. impossible, and it might have been. impossible at the time, but obviously. like innovations do happen. in technology, and they force their. employees to innovate and break those. frameworks to make their vision.

possible. But, I think it's being open. to the possibility of things like. lacking frameworks, and then just I. don't want to say you like they they had. knowledge in like technology in general, right? But they might not have been. expert in like real estate in. transportation, in industrial design. Um but I think that you need just enough. knowledge um. and then just enough grit, just enough. persuasion to get the smartest people in. the room, convince them to innovate.

>> It's almost like having that undeniable. belief that we can find a way. >> Exactly. >> And it's almost like we have to find a. way. >> Yeah. >> Because I'm not going to accept anything. less than that. >> Exactly. I can literally tell you like. this did happen at Apple, obviously this. happened at SpaceX, and look at like. Elon now. >> Where does the kind of. that leadership zeal. or. approach can often burn a lot of people. as well? >> All leaders are extremely controversial.

and polarizing. Like there's no leader. out there where like everyone loves, right? Um but I think that being. polarizing makes you interesting and the. people that are on your side are going. to work their hardest to make you happy. and like to bring that product idea that. you have to life. >> What were the biggest challenges you. had? Did you Did you have any friction. when you were rising up the ranks and. building your company and like where. where were the points that you hit. difficulties? >> This comes down to hiring the right. people and again like all leaders are. polarizing. Um but we were like all.

hands-on deck. I think that every single. company I've been at it's been all. hands-on deck where you're not just. going to be doing what your job. description is. So at scale we had like. you know the engineers labeling data. I. had my engineers talking to creators and. doing customer support um because I. think that when you are deep in the. weeds you're going to really understand, especially like when you're working with. customers, you're going to understand. like what needs to be built, um what. bugs there are, like what's critical, what's not. Uh so I think it's extremely. important to be in the weeds, especially.

early stage, and talk to customers and. do things outside your job description. Like even our investors were doing. things outside their job description. where they were like on LinkedIn helping. us like find new employees to hire. They. were like clean our office for us when. we didn't have time to cuz we were. constantly on sales calls. You can imagine that like that can. create a very polarizing environment. because people are like, "I didn't get. hired to do this." But the right people. that you hire going to be willing to be. all hands-on deck. >> Right now in this AI world that we're. living in,

what are three skills that humans should. develop. knowing that AI's going to be able to do. pretty much everything? >> So, I think the number one skill they. should develop is human connection. Like. being able to like have high EQ, being. able to do sales, etc. Because that's. never going to disappear. AI might be. able to like, you know, reach out to. agents, like negotiate a contract for. you, write the contract for you. But how. you're going to close the deal is. through human connection and how you are. able to even like win over deals is.

through human connection, right? Um like. so much of it, and this goes back here. like your network is your net worth, is. that like things are emotional sales, emotional retention. Um like even. extending a contract, for example. So, I. think that like that's definitely the. number one skill in AI world. Number two. is I think develop really good taste in. like whatever you are doing. Like for. example, like AI is going to replace a. lot of designers. But the designers with. the best taste are going to be able to. pick out, "Okay, like this is the best.

design that this AI has generated. So, let's go with this.". >> Yeah. >> And then, I think three like figure out. how to scale your time with AI. And if. you're able to do this sooner than any. everyone else, like let's say you have. an idea and you decide to make an app. with AI or like you create these bots. and like that helps you scale your time. and be like 10x more efficient than. everyone else. Um then you sell that bot. to help other people in your role be 10x. more efficient than everyone else. You're going to be able to create that. wealth um before I don't want to say. it's too late, but like I do think that. AI's going to make a lot of people rich,

but the people that fall behind, it's. not going to be great for them. >> Are you a ChatGPT, Claude, Perplexity, what are you using? >> I use different tools depending on the. use case. Um I think anything, I want to. say like consumer-related, um and this can be anything from like. helping me think of like music ideas to. researching like the best hotels out. there. I use chat, and then for anything. enterprise business focus, I use Claude. Nothing really beats out Claude code, and Claude's new design tool is.

absolutely phenomenal. And what's cool. is that like, you know, you could. literally design something in Claude. design, and then import it into Claude. code, which is great. Um even like. little details like Claude is really. good at designing um like full-scale. applications. So like UX UI, etc. But if. I want like a simple graphic edit that I. would normally use Photoshop to do, chat's actually better at that. There's. different reasons to use different. tools. How has AI changed the way you're. hiring for your new companies versus. your old one? I actually like include AI.

questions uh in every single role right. now, and um right now I am actually. asking my entire team to give take-homes. to non-technical roles. Um so for. example, with their AE roles, um so. sales, it's like, I want you to figure. out how to use Cursor, Replit, like. Claude code to create a bot where it's. like you take an Instagram profile and. guestimate like how much a person will. earn. Because A, like that's extremely. simple to do using AI tools, and B, I I. can see kind of how you think based off. how you prompt it. Like what metrics are.

you looking at, um what are you scraping. on the internet, etc. to get this number. out there. I think that every employee. needs to be using AI to be a 10x. employee now. So if they're they haven't. taken the proactive-ness to actually do. that themselves, I want to see how. quickly they can learn over a weekend. Because I do think that like some people. just like, you know, haven't just. haven't decided or haven't been in a. role where they're like, let me learn, but it's so quick to learn. Like I think. learning trajectory is everything. So, if someone can learn quickly, they can.

easily become a 10x employee um versus. someone that like might have had more. experience, but is stagnant and. resistant to learning. So, I think. take-home challenges are really great. for this cuz within 40 hours you can see. like, "Okay, cool, like how much did you. do?". >> What job do you think looks safe today, but won't exist in 10 years? >> I think that there are certain creative. jobs that look safe today that won't. exist in the future. Let's call it like. being a like videographer, photographer. That is a very human job that's not very.

analytical. It's very artistic, etc. But. I actually think that most models are. going to be AI-generated. Like a lot of. humans are going to license out their. likeness. So, AI is going to generate a. bunch of different videos and photos. Editors might still exist, right? Like. or like the taste makers will go in and. choose the right one and edit it to be. what it should have been. Certain jobs. like that. Like even writers, right? Like AI is going to get extremely good. at writing, but editing will still.

exist. >> What's the biggest mistake people are. making with AI right now? >> The biggest mistake would probably just. be assuming that AI works really well. They're just assuming everything. outputted is true, right? Like AI is. really only as good as the data that you. give it. So, if you feed a model like. the sky is red, it's going to output the. sky is red. This happens everywhere, even with engineering, right? Like if AI. makes one mistake and then it continues. to create more and more bugs, but you. trust AI to code for you, that's not. great. Which is why right now like if.

you take a great engineer and give it. AI, like it becomes a 100x engineer. But. if you take like a mid-level or. entry-level engineer and give it AI, you're just going to actually end up. with a lot of tech debt because they're. not fixing the problems that AI is. generating. But But this exists across. the spectrum. >> When did you first start learning about. AI? >> I mean, I would say probably started. with Scale. Scale was the picks and. shovels of the AI industry, right? We. weren't creating these like innovative. new foundation models. We were literally.

labeling the data. So, like we would. have self-driving car companies send us. lidar data, images, videos, and we had. labelers around the world say like. that's a car, that's a pedestrian, there's a stop sign on the road. Like. that was what we were extremely good at. and that's always going to be needed. because it goes back to like your model. is only as good as the data that you. feed it. That was when I really started. learning like how important data is. because even like with generative AI, like if it generates something wrong and. it thinks it's correct, like you're. going to get more wrong generations and. that's not great, which is why like. reinforcement learning is always going.

to be a thing. But, yeah, like I would. say like that was probably So, back in. 2016 was when I first started like. understanding AI. >> You learned about AI in 2016. 50 to 60% of the current US population. have used AI at least once and that. shows that we just feel like AI just. came around 2 years ago. What's the. thing that people like yourself are. talking about right now that the world. is only going to catch up with in 10. years? You were talking about AI 10. years ago and the average person was not.

talking about AI. They didn't even know. it was coming. >> Yeah. I mean, 10 years is a really long. time, but I think that right now what. I'm thinking about constantly is. what's going to happen to college. students because like I said, AI can. make someone exceptional really, really. great. But, when you take someone. entry-level, AI does their job better. Like Claude just shut down Fable, so. it's no longer accessible, but Fable is. as good as a staff engineer. It's.

absolutely incredible. So, if you're a. really great engineer, holy crap, you're. going to be like a thousand X engineer. And the better you are, the more useful. AI is. But again, if you're like, you. know, entry-level and you're using it, like you're not going to be able to. utilize it in the same way and it's not. great. I think in general with new. technologies, new jobs are created. Like, prompt engineering is a new job, right? And it's extremely important new. job. So, and like now we have a bunch of. people labeling data because that's a. new job and that's a huge industry. >> For people who don't know, what does a. prompt engineer do?

>> They basically prompt the AI to output. what you want it to output. >> Okay, so having someone who's so good at. writing a prompt. >> yeah, so good at writing prompts that. like you get the output that you want. >> Because everyone's just putting in these. average prompts, yeah. >> Exactly. My best guess is that like AI. has actually democratized being able to. start companies and be an entrepreneur. So, I think more people are going to. become entrepreneurs. Um because before. you would need to, you know, raise a ton. of money, then hire engineers and a huge. team, and then go build the product. And. now AI's building products like that for. free, really, um or extremely cheap. So,

I think ideas people are actually going. to be able to execute way better than. before. Like, in the past, like it was. like, "Okay, cool. Like, if you're not. an engineer, I don't want to invest in. you." But now someone that's an ideas. person can literally use AI to generate. something and get traction on it and. then be able to fundraise. And you can. now raise significantly less money to. get to metrics that you would need to. get to before you can raise a Series A. So, because it's a lot cheaper to start. companies and run companies, I do think. it's going to democratize the access to.

being an entrepreneur. And like that is. going to be a middle ground people are. going to take when, like, you know, students realize, like, "Oh, What. do I do? Like, I can't get a job.". They're going to figure out how to use. AI to start their own companies. >> Did you always know you were going to be. this successful? >> I always knew I was going to start. companies. And the reason why is because. like when I was younger, I was always. just figuring out how to make money and. build things. Like, I really enjoyed. building things and seeing people use my. products. >> What would you build as a kid? >> So, I built like a virtual pet site. I. don't know how I convinced a bunch of. engineers, designers, artists to work. for me for free. So, I built a virtual.

pet site. I think I was in like fifth. grade or something. Yeah, like fifth, sixth grade, really, really young. I. built like arcade game websites. I built. like Twitter bots, internet marketing. tools. But what was really exciting to. me was just like it could be like a. really crappy website like based off of. WordPress, but I would submit it on. StumbleUpon and I'd be like, "Oh my god, there's 10,000 people on my website.". Like I just love seeing people use my. products. And then I would say like in. college when I discovered hackathons, which is very early on, like my freshman. year, I was like, "I'm going to build a. company." Because it was my first time.

seeing that there was like so much more. to the world than just building internet. marketing tools. I was like, "Wow, I can. build extremely impactful companies that. really change how someone lives their. day-to-day life." But in terms of being. successful, I think that it goes back to. like. uh probably after I joined the Thiel. Fellowship, I didn't necessarily think. like, "Oh, I'm going to be a. billionaire." But I looked around and. everyone around me was raising tens of. millions of dollars. They were like. shooting to really change the world with. their companies. And obviously like I. think valuation is a direct measure of.

how impactful your product and your idea. has been to the world. So, did I think I. was going to impact the world? Like I. guess yes. I didn't know to what scale. >> How does it feel to be. the youngest female billionaire in the. world? Like how does that feel? >> I'm still the same person as I was when. I was younger, right? Like. I think the difference is like when I. was. maybe 20 years old, I was literally. skateboarding to Barry's Bootcamp and. now I have someone that drives me to. Barry's Bootcamp. >> But you're still at Barry's Bootcamp, yeah. >> But I'm still at Barry's Bootcamp every.

single day at 6:00 a.m. I still wake up. at 5:30 a.m. every day. Um I'm still in. the office like until late. Like I. always try to be like one of the first. people in the office and one of the last. people to leave. Although Brittany might. have me beat here. >> [laughter]. >> With me in the first, not the last to. leave. >> What do you think you had that was. different about you that made you design. sites when you were in fifth grade or. what did you have that people around you. didn't have? >> have friends. Sorry, >> [laughter]. >> I had to say that. That was like you. were feeding it to me. Um Um, but no, I.

had extremely strict Asian parents, right? So, um, my parents didn't really. let me have sleepovers, um, and then I. wasn't allowed to do like sports, etc. So, for me, I didn't really have. friends. I was not cool, right? I was. just I no one wanted to be my friend. And I wasn't allowed pets, either. So, I. think it all started really with. Neopets. I, um, started like, you know, messing around with the internet and. then I was like, wait, this is really. cool. I want my own version of this. As. for like, why I want my own version, why. I love building things, like I learned. how to use Photoshop pretty early on,

like I was learning PHP, like how to. build WordPress sites and edit them. I. don't really know like why I had that. desire. That was almost like innate in me, I. want to say. I would have been a. professional athlete if I didn't have. Asian parents. So, I think that was. really it. >> What what's what? >> I was really good at swim. I had a lot. of medals. Uh, I was very good at. basketball, um, and then. right now I have Olympic qualifying. times on a treadmill on like a very good. day, uh, but not in the US. I'd have to. like go move to Singapore and then. compete for Singapore where there's no.

competition. Um, but I think one of those three. >> Wow. Still any dreams? Are we going to. see a Olympic run in the future? >> Uh, I have Olympic friends that are a. very upset I'm not side questing to be. an Olympian because they've seen me work. out and they're like, you should. absolutely train for the Olympics. I was. recruited actually by Olympic like. training groups. Yeah. But, um, no, my. side quest is currently DJing. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah. I love that. I don't know if you. decide or plan on being a parent ever, but like, how do you feel about that? You had strict Asian parents.

Do you agree with that? Did it work? Would you do it the same way? What would. you change? >> Yes, I think the thing I would change is. that like I wouldn't force my kids into. a passion, um, and my parents actually didn't force. me into like my passion, um, per se. Like they were actually wanting me to be. a pharmacist cuz they're like, oh, you. can work 3 days a week, like. [clears throat] you'll be able to like. find a good husband, get married. And I. was like, that sounds like my worst. nightmare working 3 days a week. I would. be so bored. I don't know what I would. do. So, clearly that didn't happen. But, I.

think that prodigies are made, and I. would want to throw everything at my. kids and find what they're passionate. about. And I think people are generally. passionate about what they're good at. So, I would figure out what they're good. at. and what they seem to enjoy, and then. really accelerate their development in. that one thing, whether it's math, whether it's like being an F1 racer. Because if you're able to get like a. multi-year head start, you're just going. to be above everyone else, right? >> it. >> So, I don't want to force them into. passion, but once I find it, like I want.

them to be the very best in their. passion. >> Lucy, honestly, whenever we spend time. together, I laugh a lot, I learn a lot. You're exceptionally sharp and smart. I. mean, I could tell you just how much you. thought about the questions that you. gave me answers that surprised me or. ones that I've definitely not heard. before. >> I'm glad. Thank you. >> Yeah. Yeah. We end every episode of On. Purpose with a final five. These have to. be answered in one sentence maximum. >> Okay. >> So, Lucy Guo, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best. advice you've ever heard or received? >> I mean, this is pretty simple, but I.

would say the best piece of advice I've. ever received is just like just ask cuz. the worst thing that can happen is that. you get a no, and I do this for really. everything in my life still. And you. have to be able to handle rejection. So, be able to handle rejection and just. ask. >> Perfect. Question number two, what is. the worst advice you've ever heard or. received? >> So, I think the worst piece of advice. I've ever received is that you need to. hire executives with decades-long. experience to have like an adult in the. company. Because especially early stage, when you have an adult in the company,

what they end up doing is bloating your. team up, and that's not great for early. stage, obviously, because you end up. burning a lot more money. >> Yeah, it's it's so interesting, isn't. it? Cuz you always go through this like, do you need a young team? Do you have to. bring an adult in? >> young team. >> Yeah. Very, very emphatic. >> in trouble. >> [laughter]. >> You're very emphatic. Question number. three, what's something that you learned. at 30 that you wish you knew at 20. >> I think when people believe that you're. wealthy, it is a lot easier to move. around in this world. Um and I say this.

as someone that used to take pride in. dressing in like Shein, Walmart, etc. I. realized how much easier life gets if I. just present myself nicer. Um it opens a. lot more doors and this goes back to. like your network is your net worth, but. you actually do want those doors opened. often times. >> Mhm. And what if what if people say. things like. ah, but that doesn't feel authentic to. me and that's not real and I'm. What's your take when people say. something like that? >> I think there is a way to be presentable. and still feel authentic. Um but it also.

depends on like are you down to have. that trade-off, right? But I just. remembered the change in how much easier. life got and the connections I've been. able to make since I stopped taking. pride in dressing like a hobo. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And like those are great. connections. They've opened a lot of. doors for me. >> Question number four, who are your. entrepreneurial heroes? >> I actually really admire Whitney Wolfe. because um we all know the story how she. was kicked out of Tinder, right? But. instead of, you know, sitting having.

victim mentality and being sad, she. literally went "Fuck you." And created a. direct competitor that's doing better, which is just awesome. Like I love that. mentality of a fighter. >> Fifth and final question, we ask this to. every guest who's ever been on the show. Lucy, if you could create one law that. everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? >> I mean, this is so basic, but I think. just be nice to every human being, right? Uh I think kindness makes the. world go around. >> Lucy Guo, thank you so much. Uh as I.

said, I've learned so much. Look forward. to spending lots more time together. Excited to see what you're going to go. build next. >> Yeah, lots of things. Thank you. >> is such a joy. Thank you so much for. giving my audience so much of your time, your guidance, and your energy. I'm so. grateful. >> Thank you for having me. This was fun. >> If you loved this episode, you'll love. my conversation with Airbnb founder. Brian Chesky on how to tap into your. creative potential and the number one. thing people get wrong about success. >> The best people in your life will be.

people who see potential in you that you. didn't see in yourself. And I often wonder.