Love Expert Matthew Hussey: #1 Mistake That is Keeping You Stuck!

I am so excited to be here tonight at. the AT&T Performing Arts Center in. Dallas with my dear friend Matthew Hudi. [cheering]. Oh my god, it's lovely to be with you all. I was. sat uh right there actually watching the. first half with all of you and it was so. fun. I enjoyed it. You were amazing. I. loved it. I love being out there with. you all. It's weird to now be on this. side of it. [laughter]. >> Well, thank you for coming, man. Uh, Matthew and I have been friends for a. few years and I've always found your.

love, relationship, dating advice to be. so fascinating and interesting and I. feel like you have such a good. perspective on it all and I know a lot. of people here were very excited to dive. deep into it. So, let's let's dive. straight in. I want to start with. probably one of my favorite questions to. ask you is. how do you stay open to love when you're. exhausted by dating? I feel like how. many of you dating right now? Make some. noise. [cheering]. >> Right. So, people are tired of dating.

apps. They're tired of dating. They're. tired of figuring out what to wear, who's who pays the bills, how much do. you spend, like all this stuff. Dating. has become exhausting. How do you stay. open to love when dating has become so. tiring? I think um dating is an. interesting word because if you just if. you just take away the word dating, we are just human beings that deeply. want to connect with each other. We.

really most of us I think if not all of. us deeply want to find love. Whether we. admit it or not, we want to have that. experience. And it's a the idea of dating in order. to find love is the part people hate. We. don't want to do the process, but we. really want the result. And I'm a I'm a. big believer in the idea that we have to. stop seeing it as dating and start. seeing. this as just an ongoing expression of.

parts of ourselves that we want to. express anyway. Who among you doesn't. just enjoy being flirtatious at times. because that's part of you? Who among. you doesn't have a sexual side that. wants to be expressed because that's. part of you? You know, who here doesn't. just enjoy having a conversation with. someone cute, not knowing where it might. go? I I think sometimes we lose that. when we become obsessed with the goal.

all of the time. Yeah, >> we lose the expression of ourselves. That actually ironically is the thing. that leads to the goal if we can access. that. The problem is that playfulness. gets lost once we start freaking out. about our timeline. We start freaking. out. We want a family. We're worried. that we're going to run out of time. You. know, we want to get married. We see all. of our friends getting married. We're. the one who's still left. We think. there's something wrong with us. We're. starting to worry that it's never going. to happen for us. That kind of anxious,

fearful energy robs us of our. playfulness. And now we go on a date as. a a kind of shadow of the person that we. once were when we started this process, as someone taking it very seriously, as. someone who the moment they re the. moment you give an answer on a date that. I don't like, I'm I'm not like I'm on a. date with a stranger who just said. something. I'm like, you you're wasting. my time. [laughter].

What are you What are we doing? I I gave. you an evening and you just gave the. wrong answer. You just gave the answer. that means I know you're wrong for me. Why the am I here now? [laughter]. I'm mad at you. But but you don't even. know this person, you know? So, we lose. we lose the curiosity. We use the play. and we get we get kind of further and. further stuck. >> Yeah. The idea of switching dating for. connecting, relating, flirting is such a. healthy mindset because dating now has.

so much baggage and that word carries so. much weight and it, as you said earlier, if you've started to feel that it's. exhausting and tiring and draining that. word now, oh, I have to go on a date. comes with, oh god, I got to get ready. Oh gosh, like how long is it going to. be? Can I get out early? Like, and so. that word's carrying so much weight now. Whereas when you start saying, "Wait a. minute, just see it as connecting. Just. see it as relating. Just see it as. flirting." All of a sudden, you're like, "Oh, I could do that. That's possible. for me.". >> Yeah. And it might be worth it for its.

own sake. There might be something about. this process of connecting with other. human beings that is worth it for its. own sake. >> Is chemistry overrated, underrated, or. properly rated? And defend your answer. I'm going to say. h we overrate the wrong kind of. chemistry. >> Okay. >> And we underrate the right kind of. chemistry. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. [cheering and applause].

>> I think that we get chemistry mixed up. with a whole bunch of other things that. aren't really chemistry. like uh someone. doesn't text you back and you get. feeling in your stomach. and you go, "This must matter a lot cuz. it's making me feel awful. Why do I feel like crap right now that. this person isn't texting me? I feel. afraid. I don't feel good enough." And. then and then, you know, hours later.

after waiting and waiting and waiting, they text you and all of a sudden you. go, [sighs]. "I'm okay. I'm okay. [laughter]. Oh, that feels so good. And you go, I. really like this person. [laughter]. It had nothing to do with the person. You It had everything to do with their. absence. Are you in love with their. presence or are you in love with their. absence? You know, we get addicted to. these cycles with people and it's kind.

of what we know and it's very very. dangerous. We we it happens to us all the time and. it happens very quickly and very subtly. and very sneakily. Um a lot of us will. get suspicious if someone likes us too. much. [laughter]. >> That's so true. >> It's almost like if someone likes us a. lot, we go there must be something wrong. with you. [laughter]. But then someone comes along and they're. not sure about us and you go you might. be on to something. [laughter].

It's like we date uh as if um as if. dating is a VIP nightclub. There's great. places you could go and have an amazing. time in these places. They're serving. the same drinks. There's even better. people at these places cuz they're not. pretentious and they don't take. themselves so seriously and there's just. people having a good time and they're. not trying to show off by the fact that. they're in the right club. And then you. walk past one place and there's a big. dude with a guest list [laughter] and. you go, "What's that?" and you try and.

go in that place and they say, "I'm. sorry, your name's not on the list." And. all of a sudden, you start wondering. what amazing things must be going on. back there. There's nothing amazing. going on back there. They're creating. demand so that you want to be in there. [clears throat and laughter] It doesn't. make the place any more valuable. It. doesn't make the experience any better. behind those closed doors, but they're. creating an artificial demand. And and. that what is is what so much of. chemistry is is this feeling of I'm I'm. having to, you know, [clears throat]. sing for my supper in dating. I'm having.

to win you over. I'm having to, you. know, find a way to to to access safety. And here's, you want to know something. really messed up? There are. relationships that you were in where you. felt an insane amount of chemistry or. what you called chemistry. for a while. Right? Because I I'll always say to. people, be very careful if you had an. amazing weekend with someone and you. felt like there was so much chemistry. It was a weekend,

right? So, don't go for the rest of your. life comparing. the people you date in a genuine like. progression and evolution to someone you. had a holiday romance with for 2 weeks. going, "Why can't I just feel that?" You. felt that because they went home. [laughter]. They It's like fireworks fireworks are. the best thing ever for about 10. minutes. The only reason fireworks are so magical. is because they end. If fireworks didn't.

end, they'd be the most annoying thing. in [laughter] the world. When you go to Disney or you wherever. and you see fireworks, they know there's. an optimal amount of time to show them. for to create that magic and there's a. moment to stop them so that you leave on. that high. A lot of us have done that in. our dating lives and now we're comparing. everyone to the fireworks we had once. with someone that only created them. because they left, because it ended. Now, some of you, as I was about to say,

have been in relationships where the. chemistry was there for a long time. But. be very careful about the relationships. where you felt. like you were never really safe. in the relationship because there are. relationships where the chemistry ends. because the chase never really ends. You. never really feel like you had the. person even when you were with them. How. many people put your hand up have ever. felt like that? You were with with. someone for a long time. you never. really felt safe, like truly safe, like.

I've got you. We're in this together. And when the chase never ends, the. chemistry never ends. Now we go out. looking for someone to to be that all. over again. And what we're really asking. is, can you make me feel as unsafe as I. did last time around cuz that would just. really keep me alive in this. [laughter]. What an answer. That was amazing. You. you reminded me of a study that I love. that talks about how we what we don't. understand with the chemicals of. chemistry are that we're experiencing.

excitement but we're experiencing. stress. So there's the stress of crap. are they going to text me? And then. there's the excitement of oh my god they. just text me and then there's the stress. of oh my god are they going to ask me. out on a date? And then there's the. excitement of oh my god they just asked. me out on a date. And then there's a. stress of oh crap what do I wear? And. then there's the excitement of all. right, they liked what I was wearing. And so chemistry is really just. excitement and stress. And when you.

spend more time with someone, what. happens naturally? The stress goes down. You know they're going to show up. You. know they're going to message you back. You know they like what you're wearing. And so when the stress goes down, we. think we lost chemistry. And so we. confuse. peace for boredom. We think, "Oh, they. just got really boring. Now they don't. entertain me." But really, it's what. you're saying. So, I want to ask you, what's the difference between. healthy standards and unrealistic.

expectations? I I come across people a lot who will. tell me, "I have really my problem is my. standards are too high.". And I'll be like, "Tell me about your. standards. What are they?" and they'll. start reeling off standards they have. for, you know, the way someone looks and. the where they've got to in life and, you know, who how impressive this person. is, how shiny this person is, and how. the kind of person they need to hold. them. And then I'll say, "Well, when was.

the last time you felt that?" And then. they'll start talking about some person. in their life that has been treating. them horribly for the last 2 years. They've been on and off with this. person. They've been constantly kept in. limbo. They've never felt like they were. really chosen by that person. And. they're like, "That was that's who I. really feel it with, you know, but I. just I need to find like if I could just. get that person to commit, then I'd be. happy." I'm like, "So, so when you say.

you have high standards, what you really. mean is you have incredibly high. standards for things that are incredibly. superficial or don't matter. and you. have no standards. for someone's character or for how they. treat you. People who say they have high. standards often have non-existent. standards for being treated well. So my. philosophy on standards is when we talk. about what are healthy standards, we.

have to start raising our standards in. the areas that really matter. How kind. is someone? Can I actually rely on them. to show up for me? When I was first. dating my wife on our like third or. fourth date, we were supposed to meet up. I went to. the theater in London with my family. And at the end of this show, I was like, "Hey, you know, why don't you come over. this way and we'll go somewhere, whatever.". And she I didn't know this until later,

but she was not happy with this because. she had been to me the last like three. times. She sent me a message and she. said, "Hey, um, there's a really great. bar near me. Um, I think you'll love it. Let's go there." And I was like, "You know, my family's here. We just. went to the theater. It'd be a lot. easier tonight if you came this way. Do. you mind?" And she was like, "No, no, it's Listen, it's all good. We'll do.

another night." She took it away. [laughter]. She said, "Okay, let's not have a date. tonight." She didn't do it in an. aggressive way or even a passive. aggressive way. She just said, "Let's do. another night." That was a healthy. standard. That was her way of saying, "You are going to have to start meeting. me halfway or this isn't going to work.". She didn't have to say it. She just had. to live that standard. And when it. wasn't being met by me, she kindly took.

it off the table. And had I the next night said, "Can you. come to me?" she would have done the. same thing again. That's a healthy standard. And a lot of. us when we think we have standards, what. we really mean is we. have a list. Exactly. And there's a. there's a big big difference cuz a lot. of people with a list are being treated. the worst and seem to be okay with it. >> Audrey, how long did it take him to get. the message? Where are you? I'm asking.

Matthew's wife [laughter]. >> that night. >> Oh, that night. Oh, he's he was on it. Okay. Yeah, he was he was smart enough. to get the message. I love that. But. that's such a great example of someone. also communicating their standard in a. way that isn't aggressive, that doesn't. create drama, that isn't like making it. a big deal, but is just clearly saying. like, "Well, this is what would work for. me tonight." What I want to get into is. why are we so scared? And this, by the. way, happens even if you're already.

married, even if you're in a. relationship, even if you've been. together for a few years, we're so. scared of communicating our actual needs. because we're scared it will scare the. other person away. And so, we'll. tolerate bad behavior and accept less. than we deserve. Before you came out, I. asked everyone, "How many people have. accepted less than they deserve?" And. the crowd went ballistic, which is. always funny, but but it's true, right? And and I'm saying that with empathy. Like we all do that to ourselves and. it's and it's painful when you realize,

wait a minute, I I don't communicate. what I'm saying because I'm scared of. that pushing that person away. Walk me. through that. Why do we do that? And how. do we get better at it? A big problem. for us is we're more connected in the. moment to the fear of losing someone. than we're connected to the pain we have. experienced in the past by not sticking. to our standards. So the pain in the. moment that's more real is I want to. find love and this person seems like a.

viable candidate and I don't want to. lose them. But we've been in situations in the past. where we didn't follow a standard where. we didn't say this is what I need and we. were in a miserable relationship as a. result. Like think of a relationship. where you didn't get your needs met. Just everyone for a moment. I can think. of one. I I remember a a a relationship. that was hell on earth for me, where I. did not get my needs met. Think for a. moment about a relationship where you.

didn't feel loved, where you didn't feel. considered, where you felt like you were. always an afterthought, where you felt. like someone made plans unilaterally and. you never got a decision. You never got. a vote. They just came to you at the end. of having made them. Anyone felt that. one? Horrible, right? You never know. what your life's going to be cuz someone. else is running it for you. Ever been in. a relationship where you didn't feel. that someone was affectionate in the. ways that you needed or where you didn't. get the touch that you needed or the sex.

that you needed or whatever it was. Think of a relationship where your. standard although it wasn't a standard. then but your need wasn't met. I bet you it was a special kind of. torture. And when we're first out of a. relationship like that, we're very. connected to that torture. And that can make us say never again. But the longer we're single, the longer. we're on our own, the more disconnected.

we become from the pain of that and more. connected we become to the pain of being. alone and to the fear of never finding. someone. But it's a false economy. to uh lower our standards in order to. get someone quicker. Because going slow is faster. [laughter]. >> Going slow is faster when it comes to. love. Going slow is faster. You know. what's slow? Like ending up in the wrong. relationship for 5 years.

Losing someone in month three because. you realize you're not on the same page. or going slow when someone else is. trying to like, you know, go full. throttle who you met last night and is. already telling you how amazing you are. and how they can't wait to see you again. and how they want to have your babies. It's like it can feel like, oh, this is. in some way we know there's something. wrong with that, but also kind of it. feels nice cuz it's like this is exactly. like finally someone's at least like.

this into me. So, it can feel weird to. go to put the brakes on somebody else, but we go slow to go fast. You can only. know someone's impact in the beginning. You can't know their character. I don't. care how great they were on a date. No. matter how amazing someone felt on a. date, you do not know their character. You only know their impact. Character. can only be measured over time. So, you. need time. [applause]. Yeah, that resonates so strongly. I'. I've always said, don't fall in love too.

fast because, you know, we start making. future plans with someone and we don't. even know their past. We we start. dreaming up what life could look like. when we haven't even lived a day with. them or a month with them or a year with. them. And it's so fascinating how the. mind is this imagination machine like. we're the best fiction writers in the. world in our mind, >> the best. And we get so carried away. with the version we're writing in our. mind only to realize that reality never. really caught up. But we were living in.

the promise. I was literally talking to. someone that a client of mine a couple. of nights ago and they were just saying. to me, they were like, "Jay, now as I'm. talking to you, I'm realizing I was just. living in the promise. I never actually. had it, but there was the promise. One. day we'll have this. One day we'll do. this together. One day we'll move in. One day we'll do this. One day. One day. one day and it was just living in. promise world and dreamland but never in. the reality of where they were. By the.

way, I've done this with like men I've. met when I go out and I like will go to. a social function and meet another guy. who's just like charmed their pants off. I'm just like, "Oh my god, this guy is. amazing." I would say to Audrey, my. wife, I'll be like, "That guy was the. best." [laughter]. I've come to learn this about myself. that I can't trust my judgment in the. first hour [laughter]. because some of the some of the men in. my like some of the guys that made the.

greatest impression on me that I was. enam like I was like I just want to be. this dude's friend. We're going to be. best friends. I know it from the way he. spoke to me tonight. I'm like 6 months. later I'm like I can't stand this guy. [laughter]. This guy is terrible. like and this guy. does this to everybody and this guy's. like he's just he's that guy and I I. there's a wonderful phrase that will. save you all a lot of heartbreak and. that phrase is just we'll see it doesn't. by the way you don't have to lose your. romance to say we'll see your friends.

will come to you how was your date last. night so great we had so much fun like I. haven't had that much fun in a long time. oh my god that's so [laughter] exciting. Do you think that. easy? We'll see. You can have both. >> You can have both, but the will see is. really important because character is. consistent and you can only measure.

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where you can grab a free Juny on us. So. head to drinkjuny.com/croger. to claim your free clan in store so you. can feel better and live better. I want. to ask you a question that always goes. through everyone's mind and seeing as. you're on fire tonight out in the park. This is like let's let's go for all the. tough ones. How do you know if someone. is the one in a world where there's. plenty of fish in the sea? We're. constantly being exposed to other.

people. It doesn't take that long to. feel like there's a million more. options. How do you know if you're with the one. or if you're just settling? >> I think it's really interesting. This is. a weird comparison, but I think it's. really interesting to watch. someone who's built something really. amazing in their career. Like I've I've. watched Jay for a long time and we had. been lucky to be friends for for some. years. But you know I had seen Jay doing. his thing before I ever had met you. And.

it's such a joy to see this act of. creation happening over and over again. in your life where what you started. doing evolved and changed and it keeps. evolving and changing it. the core of it. is the same and what's driving you is. there and the the values that you have. and but it's changed over and over again. because you're constantly sculpting it. to be your ideal version of it and it.

didn't start as your ideal version of. it. It started with like a it's got. enough of what I need. that I can keep going with this because. I feel like I'm on the right path. That's what that journey is like in our. careers. You don't find the dream job, you create the dream job. Right? It's, [applause]. you know, the the the thing I think that. makes us never able to stick with a. career or a business or an idea is that. we want it to be our dream thing on day.

one. And it just doesn't work like that. It needs to be sculpted. There are. plenty of people in here who have. created businesses that look very. different than the business you started. on day one because you kept sculpting. it. You realize I don't like that part. of it as much as I thought I would. Let. me change that. But the core of it is. the same. It's like that in our love. lives. When we go around saying who's. the one for me, we are missing the point. that what we do is we find a human being.

where there's enough of the good stuff, enough of the values and the. compatibility, a much underrated thing. If chemistry is overrated, compatibility. is woefully underrated. Love is not all you need. Compatibility. is all you need. We find people and we. expect so much on day one. And I think. that like great sex, it should get. better over time. You meet someone and.

they learn you and you learn them and it. gets better because you learn each. other. That to me is what a relationship. is like. So it's finding someone with. enough of the raw materials, enough of. the things that make you go, "Oh, this. kind of works. I feel more myself around. you. I feel at home in the best way. I. don't feel like I'm trying to be. something that I'm not to impress you. I. see you. You see me. It kind of There's. something interesting here. And I think.

if we can get curious about those. feelings. instead of looking for this kind of. otherworldly. feeling, we'll realize how many people. we could actually work with. And then it. starts to get really interesting because. you realize there's a lot more ones than. you knew. and you don't start with the one. Someone ends up as the one. I think. that's the difference. They don't start. as the one. They end up being the one. because of what you've built together. And now you look back and they go they,

oh, look, they're the one. But not on day one. I I think love at first sight is a very. very dangerous concept. [laughter]. Like love at first sight is such an. insult to two people who have been. married for 30 years. >> You know what I mean? It just they're. the one. Okay, tell that to two people. who have been married for decades and. have like weathered storms and one of. them got sick and the other one drove. them to the hospital every week and. their relative had a drug problem and.

you had to put up with that relative. with the drug problem because this is. the love of your life. But you figured. it out together and you like that that. to me is love. Love isn't I went on a. date and now like oh [laughter] my god I. feel the best I've ever felt. I think. that's so powerful and what a great. perspective because yeah, I was thinking. about that as you were saying that, you. know, when me and Riley first got. together and then we got engaged and got. married, I thought I knew her, but it's. actually through the last.

12 years we've been married, uh, 9 years. we've been married, 12 years we've been. together, that I actually feel like I. understand how little I knew her when I. said I love you, which is a really. fascinating journey to go on to your. point where it's like the day we got. married was not the day I loved her the. most. It actually wasn't even possible. Even though I may have said that on that. day and it's now when we moved to a new. country and didn't have any family or. friends and when we were 4 months away. from being broke and she said, "I trust. you." And then the next morning wanted.

to buy a plant. Right? It was like. moments like that. [laughter]. It's moments like that and then you move. to another place and you build community. and you take care of your family and. rush like it's it's all those moments. where you go, "Oh, now I know what love. means and now I'm building the skills. and the toolkit of what it means to. truly love you and actually my biggest. mistake was I also thought I knew you. when we got married and now I I realized. I didn't." So what what I love about the. advice you're giving of create it, you. don't find it is that it's that never.

stops. What you're saying never stops. And that's why it's great advice because. if you had to find the one, that means. you were done the moment you found that. person. And that mindset creates such a. fracture with reality, which is wait a. minute, you're going to have to create. and build. Using your words, create and. build every 5, 10, 15, 20 years. It's. never going to stop. And that and that. requires discipline. and it requires discipline and it.

requires being connected to your to your. why to your reasons why the relationship. itself is important. I think that's one. of the most um missed things in so many. relationships is I have these things I. call emotional buttons. and they are basically. how I access an emotion that I want to. feel again. So for example, there's a moment in the movie The.

Fighter uh with uh Mark Wahberg and uh. >> Christian Bale. >> Christian Bale. >> Christian Bale. Yeah. There's a moment. where Mark Wahberg is, this is going to. sound crazy specific, but this is how. emotional buttons are. Mark Wahberg is about to go into his. last fight and he's nervous and his. brother uh comes up to him and he puts. his head on his head and he just rocks. with him and the crowd is going crazy. and it's all you could feel the chaos. and the nerves and his bigger brother.

just comes and makes him feel safe and. that scene I get goosebumps as I say it. that scene I cannot think of that scene. without thinking about the kind of. brother I I have two younger brothers. without thinking of the kind of brother. I want to be to my brothers. My No, I'm not going to say that one cuz. that one's about Audrey and it's too She. doesn't know I have this emotional. button. But it's [laughter]. the No, because then No, because it's a. thing. It's a It's a little thing she.

does. If I say it, she will stop doing. it cuz she'll become aware of it. And it. makes me love her so much. [laughter]. But it's a little thing she does. And. when she does it, it re I feel a deep. it's like a not a rational thing. I feel. a deep deep sense of love for her. And I. want to like make her as happy as I. possibly can. [snorts] I get that. because I I think of that thing that she. does and it connects me. It connects me.

to my wife for why I want to show up. differently in the relationship. And a. lot of us don't have these emotional. buttons or we don't and we certainly. don't use them consciously every day. We. Winston Churchill said people. occasionally stumble over the truth but. most pick themselves up and carry on as. if nothing happened. We occasionally. stumble over a moment of truth about why. we love someone about why they matter so. much to us about how much our. relationship enriches and enhances our. lives. If we don't understand what just.

happened that made us feel that and. bottle that, we will move on as if. nothing happened. And then the next time. we feel it, it will be by chance. And if. that's 3 months from now, you just went. 3 months without connecting to that. feeling, which is 3 months where you. might be, you know, showing up in in. lesser ways to the relationship. On the. other end of that, when is the work too. much work, right? Because there's a. spectrum on that. So on one side we're. saying, "Hey, we've got to create it. You've got to build it. You've got to.

work on it." And then I'm sure there are. people in the audience going, "I've been. working on it for a few," you know, or. someone made me work on it for quite a. while and then I realized. when do you know it's too much work? Like how do you know when you're at that. end of the spectrum? >> I don't think there's any one moment. I. think it when we realize over time that. we have shown up to the best of our. ability. and we have tried to find a teammate in.

them because you can't it's it's you you. have to have a teammate for that. If you. if you want something to change you need. a teammate in helping you make that. change or you you need their. participation in that. There are so many. people trying to make a relationship. better on their own. You need someone to. be with you in that process. If you. don't have a teammate, if you don't have. someone who acknowledges like that's why. being with a partner who doesn't value. growth is so hard cuz you don't have to. have someone who's perfect if you have a.

learner, someone who's humble, curious, willing to grow. Um, but if over time someone shows a. complete lack of willingness to to. figure this out with you and you've. communicated that with them, that I. think is its own form of closure. The. problem for a lot of people is that they. only really communicate how truly. unhappy they are or how many things.

they've been struggling with on the day. of the breakup. that especially in a. long-term relationship, that's not a. fair thing to do to our partner. Like I. think we owe it to ourselves and to them. to give us to create the closure of. here's what I'm really struggling with. and I'm bringing this to you because I. actually care about this relationship. and I feel safe enough to bring it to. you and to have that conversation. but it's really affecting me and this is.

really you know it's affecting me in. this way and this way and this way. I. need us to work on this. I need us to. take this seriously. Whatever that. means, whether you and I do it, whether. we do it with a coach or a therapist, whe whatever we do, I need us to take. this seriously. This needs to be a. priority for us. You and me looking at. the problem, not you, me looking at you. as the problem. You and me together. looking at the problem and saying, "This. is an issue. Can we figure this out?". I think then if if over a series of.

months you're like I haven't got a. partner in this process or things aren't. getting better one or the other then you. might make that decision. But it even if. you realize you do have a partner in the. process but it doesn't get better. At. least your partner doesn't wake up one. day to a complete ambush. of having no idea any of this was a. problem and then all of a sudden they. get hit with it all today. I think we. owe it to each other to for someone not.

to be surprised on the day that it ended. about the things that made it end. >> Yeah. There's such a reality to. communication being. the hardest part. Not because we're even. bad people, but because we were just. never trained in an emotional. vocabulary, right? If you didn't see great love. mirrored, you weren't able to mirror it. If the people in your life always just. shut down when there was a problem, then.

you may shut down. Or like you said, not. only do you only have the conversation. on the day of the breakup, you only have. the conversation as an argument. So, it. was never a conversation. It was an. argument, a disagreement, a a full-blown. fight. It was never shared in that. moment where maybe it could have been. digested. Maybe it could have been. heard. Maybe. And a lot of that, a lot. of our fear of saying the thing that. feels unspeakable is our desire for. control.

We're trying to control the situation. And when we're like a lot of us and I. listen, no judgment because I've done. this several times in my life and I'm. not proud of it, but. we are trying to protect ourselves. and so we hold back and hold back and. hold back and hold back. In the. meantime, by the way, we're grieving. We're grieving the relationship. We're. just not telling them that we're. grieving the relationship or vice versa.

some I I've also been on the other side. of this and so have many of you. That's. why you can someone can break up with. you and then two weeks later they're. with someone else. You're like, "How is that possible? How is it possible that you moved on so. fast? They didn't move on so fast. They. they broke up with you 6 months ago. You're just hearing about it today.". That's because they were trying to. control it. It felt safe to them to.

control it until the last possible. minute when they felt safe to leave and. then they left. But their controlling of. it is what makes it such a traumatic. thing for us and vice versa. So. sometimes when we are unhappy in a. relationship, we have to relinquish some. control. and allow things to break to maybe get. better or not. But once you put your. once you break it in some way with your. partner in the process, you're also now. not fully in control of the situation.

because they can't unknow what they. know. Now that makes us have to live a. little more dangerously. [laughter]. But that also might be the thing that. makes us attracted to our partner again. Cuz now that they know, they might start. doing some things and you may not even. love everything they do, but it might. make you start to feel that jolt of. like, you know, something again. Matthew. Hussy, everyone, that was wow. Turn up tonight, Matthew. All right.

Before we let you go, because you've. been on the podcast multiple times, which we usually end with the final. five, we came up with a new version that. you can join in on as well. It's called. Vibe Check. And so I'm going to read out. some scenarios in love, relationships, or dating. And the audience is going to. decide first whether it's a vibe, which. means yes, that's great. Or not a vibe. So let me hear you say it's a vibe. >> It's a vibe. >> And then not a vibe. >> Nice. And then I'm going to ask Matthew. whether he agrees or disagrees with the.

audience. All right. So vibe check. Here. we go. The first one. You're dating. someone who always shows up, always. listens, always texts back. They're. kind, respectful, but the chemistry. isn't there. You keep the relationship. going because it's the first healthy. relationship you've ever been in. Is it. a vibe? [cheering]. >> All right, I'm going to ask you to make. noise on either one. So, it's a vibe, make noise.

>> Not a vibe, make noise. [cheering]. That was like mildly not a vibe one by a. tiny amount. So they're saying it's not. a vibe if you keep the relationship. going because it's the first healthy. relationship you've ever been in. I I. don't listen don't keep it going for. like a year, but like give it maybe a a you know a. month to settle [laughter] in. Like. settle in and see if you can get used to.

this new feeling. Uh cuz it's a new. feeling. If you're used to like crazy. chaos, this will be boring for a minute. No one no one comes off of drugs and. then enjoys a sunset the next day. [applause]. Oh, great answer. You've been dating. someone for 6 months. They treat you. like a priority. Talk about long-term. potential, but haven't introduced you to. any of their friends or family. And when.

you ask, they say it's still early. Make. some noise if it's a vibe. [cheering] It's not a vibe. Yeah. Very clearly not a vibe. >> Not a vibe. >> When should that be happening with that. conversation? >> I mean, listen, there's certain. situations that are different. Like if. someone has kids, complicated. And you. you have to be respectful of the fact. that someone might be taking a serious. amount of time before introducing you to. those. But if you're talking about like.

their friends or their family, even just. their friends, that's a weird thing. after 6 months if you haven't met anyone. in their world to verify who this human. being is. [laughter]. No, not a vibe. Definitely not a vibe. >> Great. I think we're all agreed on that. All right, last one for all of those who. are struggling with dating out there. You've been seeing someone consistently, great dates, great connection, but they. don't follow you on social media. They. never post you. They say they like to. keep their private life private.

>> Is it a vibe? [cheering]. >> Is it not a vibe? >> Oh, that's pretty equal. >> Wait, who was saying it's a vibe? >> Is it a vibe? Make some noise. [cheering]. >> Wait, for how they they don't Did you. say they don't follow you? >> They don't follow you on social media. >> Come on. [laughter]. They don't follow you. >> It's all right. It's Listen, it's one. thing if someone's like, "I don't I. mean, are they famous?" Like, if.

someone's like very famous, and they're. like, "I don't want to post about you. right now cuz it's going to make your. life miserable. Trust me.". But he's probably not famous. >> There's this whole trend right now about. how if someone doesn't have social media. and doesn't post, it's someone's Roman. Empire, right? It's like so attractive. if someone. >> Yeah, I do think that. I do. Listen, I. don't think that it's necessary for them. to post about you anytime soon. I do I. do think that and I think it's lovely.

when someone is just like their their. private life is not out there in the. world in that way, but it's a bit weird. when they're not following you or. they're [laughter] sort of like not. having any interaction, not you know, >> I don't want to create any kind of. feedback loop whatsoever. suspicious. Tell tell my wife that my. wife my wife started listening to on. purpose like last year for the first. time. [laughter]. >> That's kind of like not following me, right? Like she Yeah. [laughter].

>> To be fair, I don't think she's ever. followed a single thing that I've done. either. So, I I don't think she's just. maybe not into this content. >> All right. Well, Matthew's been so kind. that we're actually both going to take. some questions uh from the audience. So, Paige, where are you? Paige, there's. Paige. Paige is up there. Get make some. noise for Paige, everyone. [cheering]. So, Paige is going to come around. Raise. your hand if you have a thoughtful,

conscious, kind question, and you. haven't had too many drinks yet. Uh. Paige is going to find you and me and. Matthew can take some of your questions. You can direct them at both of us, to. Matthew, whatever you like. He's here. So, make the most of it. This is great. advice, great insight. >> Um, what do you think is the secret. sauce for like a long-term marriage? >> What's your [snorts] name? >> Sah. >> Sah, nice to meet you. Where are you. from? >> Houston. >> Awesome. >> Well, actually from Sorry. >> What? In England? >> Oh, no way. Well, I think you should. start with this one. You've had a.

long-term marriage. >> Longer term? Yeah. To some. Um, I'd. honestly say the biggest thing that I've. seen work for us and I've seen work for. the couples I interviewed for my last. book who've been together for decades, far longer than we have, is people who. never tried to change each other. Respect means I'm not trying to change. you. I'm happy to watch you grow. I'm. patient while you grow, but I'm not.

forcing you to become the person I want. you to be. or need you to be. I'm happy. to let you have the freedom to be the. person you are. Because over your. relationship, people are going to play. so many different roles. They're going. to take on so many different hats. There's going to be so many different. transitions that if I don't respect you. and let you be who you are, that's going. to be the reason why we can't be. together. And those signs of who someone. was were really evident in the.

beginning. you just shut them out. because the chemistry or the attraction. overtook them. I'll give an example. For. me, since Radi's met me, my purpose has. always been my number one priority. And. my purpose didn't look like this when we. met. It looked like me booking a tiny. little room in London and speaking to. five people on a Friday night. But Radi. knew that that was my priority. And ever. since I met Radi, I knew her priority. was being with her family. She adors. them. She loves them. She's the.

incredible bubbly human being because of. the love that she has for her family. And at so many points in our life, my. wife could have said, "You work too. hard. You focus too much on your. purpose." And I could have said, "Well, we've built an amazing life. Why do you. need to always go hang out with your. parents?". And and those two things would have. broken our relationship. But I. understand that her family is what makes. her the person I love. and she. understands that me doing this is makes. me the person that she loves. And so.

that's that's normal people. I love that. answer. I love that. >> Hi, I'm Victoria from Houston. >> Hey Victoria. A lot of Houston in the. house. Thank you so much. >> Um I just want to know if you think. cheating is forgivable, whether. emotionally or physically. >> It's a nice easy one. [laughter]. >> Matthew, why don't you go first this. time? I should have gone first on that one. Uh. I think I heard Robert Green once use.

the phrase if someone nobody ever does. something once. Okay. If if someone did something, assume it's a pattern or that they've. done it in the past many times. Now, I. think that's really great survival ad. If I was giving like handing out. survival advice for life and human. behavior, I would say that's a really. really important lesson. I also have to. temper that logic. with. a bit of humanity and compassion for.

ourselves. which is that probably everyone in this. room has done something in the past that. they regret and wouldn't do again and. learned from and wish they hadn't done. and that informed your life. It changed. your life in some way. Uh there's a. British poet David White. who can't stand the culture of no reg #. no regrets that we all live in today. He. said anytime I hear someone say no. regrets I think where have you been?

[laughter]. Regret is actually important. It serves. a very important function. When you regret how you treated someone. in high school because you were mean to. someone or you bullied someone and that. in that affects you. It might change the. way you treat people for the rest of. your life. If you didn't regret it, you. wouldn't change. Do I believe once a. cheater, always a cheater? I think. life's more complicated than that. And I think that part of having. compassion for ourselves is realizing.

that other people are capable and and. worthy of forgiveness, too. But, and there is a really, really, really. big butt here, it's not your job to fix what someone. else broke. [applause]. >> The trauma of that kind of betrayal is.

deep for most people. extraordinarily deep. So if you betray someone in that way, you better if you want that. relationship, you better understand the. journey that is ahead. because there is a long journey ahead. You are not in a sprint. I'm sorry. I'm. sorry. I'm sorry. That's a sprint.

You're in a marathon. And you saying sorry might be an. acknowledgement today. It might help. someone feel seen today, but in six. months, it won't stop their emotional. flashback. It won't stop them having a a a revisit. of these feelings a year from now when. they think about that betrayal. And you're going to have to be along for. that ride and respect the damage you. have done and respect that your job now.

is to be an enormous part of the. reparation of that damage. What I see routinely. is people who have been cheated on. trying to do the work for the both of. them. Like, can I be back with them? I don't. know. What are they saying right now? What are they saying? Are they saying,

you know, I know I I know what I've. done. I know that this has caused deep. damage. I know this is going to take a. long time. I am going to be with you the. whole way. Not only that, I'm gonna what. the thing that happened for me. That. what triggered that, it is never going to trigger me again in. that way, that's never going to be my. response. to that trigger again because I'm going. to go out and do the work to make sure.

that that's never my response to that. trigger again. And that might mean. therapy over time, might mean coaching. over time. It's that for is going to be. a long journey for them. Right? There's a great line. Um Jacob. Mro said, "Consider how hard it is to. change yourself and you'll realize how. foolish it is to think you can change. someone else.". [applause]. How many of you at the beginning of of. every year set a resolution that's. really really really important to you. and then by the end of January you've.

broken it? That was something you. decided to change. and you couldn't stick to it. Now. imagine being with someone who cheated. and and even though they're sorry. because it's inconvenient right now that. the relationship is falling apart. They. don't actually want to change the. fundamental part of them that made them. cheat in the first place. If they don't. want to do that work, there's no amount. of forgiveness on your side that will. make any difference to this relationship. whatsoever. So be forgiving. That's a.

very kind and compassionate act. Don't. be a fool. [applause]. Mic drop. No, no need to no auditions. That's a. beautiful answer. No need. >> Hello. >> Hello. What's your name? >> My name is P Nang. Uh, this is my dream, by the way, to be here. Meet you, Jay. >> Oh, thank you. So great for you. >> How do you deal? I think this is from. Matthew since you're the dating expert. Uh, not that I don't trust you, Jay, but.

um I haven't dated in a long time. because it's been a lot of work to. figure myself, deal with the traumas, blah blah blah. And I'm in a place where. like you would think that I'm ready to. date because I am who I know who I am, but at the same time, I'm 43. I'm. independent. I pay my bills. I take. myself on dates. I accept my friend. requests. I I mean I love my company but. then I also crave I've always had a. dream about having a partner. Um so it's.

like I want to meet somebody. but at the same time I can do bad by my. own self. I don't want to get in a. relationship where I have to build. somebody up. I don't want to get in a. relationship where I owe somebody or. they feel like they are improving my. life because right now I'm taking care. of my life in every way. Um I don't mind. eating alone. I buy myself flowers. I. buy myself everything I want. And I'm. not rich but I'm happy.

>> Got it. >> So um how do I go out like how do I. start? Like how do I. like what do I do? I'm happy. But. [applause]. >> thank you. >> It's a wonderful thing that you have. gotten to that point in your life where. [snorts] you know who you are. You've. done all of this work on yourself. and that there's a safety that you have. created in the life that you have built.

What I hear is that there's this other. part of your life that you really want. that you keep saying you want, but. it represents an area of life that you. can't control the way you can control. everything else. You can control your work. You can. control how you take care of yourself. You can control the food you eat. you. can control, you know, if one friend. lets you down, you find you you put your.

effort on another friend. You like. you've built all this safety, but at a certain point, what you call. independence. is really a desire to keep clinging to. control. [applause]. And and that by the way that would be. fine Pette if you were incredibly. content and happy and wanted nothing. more from your life. but you do want something more which is.

why you stood up in front of this whole. room and expressed a desire to find a. relationship. So you you want more but you're afraid. of what a relationship could bring. And my guess is. that part of that. is. in. learning to really trust yourself. I'm. going to take a wild guess and say that.

what you're really afraid of is someone. coming into your life who you, God. forbid, like. And that everything up. because all of a sudden it feels like. there is an element of your joy that you. do not have complete control over. And maybe what's happened in the past.

is you have been in a situation where. you like someone and all of a sudden you. felt very out of control because you. couldn't trust yourself not to keep. overgiving in a relationship, not to. show up in ways that eventually meant. that you got walked over or that your. happiness was compromised. And so. there's a desire never to return to. that. And when we have a desire never to. return to that, what we really say is I.

just got to keep myself away. from the from that temptation because I. know if I get too close to it, it's not. someone else will mess up my life, I. will mess up my life. Because the reality is, and this is the. important thing for you to remember, if you trust yourself, you don't need to. worry about the impact anyone else is. going to have on your life. >> You don't have to trust anyone else.

>> People go, "How do I how can I learn to. trust again?" Don't worry about it. Just. trust you. Trust not that someone's. never going to betray you or they're. never going to come along and start. taking too much or taking advantage of. your generosity or that trust that the. moment someone starts doing that, you. can have a boundary. And if that. boundary isn't respected, you have the. power to walk away. When you trust. yourself, you don't need to worry about. someone else coming in and screwing.

everything up. The one thing that um. that I learned in my through my cancer. journey, I'm I'm recent survivor is is. that um I I don't you know how you said. the whole no regret things. I do have. one regret but one thing that I learned. is that to forgive myself of the regret. or whatever was to say well that's the. information I had at that time and I. made the best decision that time and I. know that me I don't do things.

impulsively that I'm very deliberate I. do all the research so I need to trust. myself in the future about what I did in. the past so where I'm at right now I I. am glad you said that because I just. have to have faith that who I am today. that I found who I am. >> You've already. successfully protected yourself. >> Yes, >> you've already done it. >> So the thing the fear that someone's.

going to come in and they're going to. take they can't. You already did it. You. already achieved it. You're already fine. on your own. So you can go back to that. anytime you want. You just proved that. with the life you've been living. Now go. out there and make an actual impact cuz. you didn't create all that safety so. that you could never leave the house. You created all of that safety so that. you could leave the house and you could. go blow up and know that you could. always come home if you had to.

>> I think we got time for one more. question. Paige, >> my name is Maya Pieta. >> Nice to meet you, Maya. >> Thank you. It was nice to meet you, too. I would like to ask. when you're looking for somebody who can. just take you to the next level. I guess. in the relationships that I've been in, um, I have, um, sometimes I feel like I.

I love from a place of wanting to make. someone else [clears throat]. feel better or bring them up or show. them love that maybe they haven't. experienced before when I can see that. somebody's hurting. >> Mhm. but giving of my energy to the. point where I feel drained and um have. lost myself. I don't ever want to. compromise like that again. Um I think I.

want to be well I know that I want to be. with somebody who can. improve. um my my life and my situation. And maybe my question is how not to let. overgiving turn into something that's. too costly. >> like of my peace or my safety. >> Two things come to mind, Maya. Um the first is that that overgiving.

is. uh something that's meeting a need for. you. It's working for you on some level. And it's important to figure out what. what that's doing. It might make you. feel safe because when you find someone. who just needs a lot from you, that's. not the kind of person that will abandon. you. But when you actually go out and meet an. equal, that's scary as Cuz that.

person can leave you. just like PVC can leave someone. She's a. scary woman. She can leave, right? That makes her a force. that. makes us much scarier to date than. someone who absolutely needs all of the. help in the world. So, it might be that. for you right now, overgiving makes you. feel safe, makes you feel indispensable. It it it might be that that's a model. for love. You've learned that you only. really feel safe in a in a situation.

where you're giving more than the other. person is. That you're not worthy of. being in a situation where someone just. loves you for you and not because of. everything you do all the time. The second thing I want to say is that. you are when you go into a situation. trying to give like that because it. seems nice and it seems like a kind. thing to do and someone else needs you. There's another human being in that room. that also needs you. When we're in a. room with one friend, there are two.

human beings in that room. And our responsibility is just as much. to us, if not more, than it is to the. friend. Because our job is to take care of. ourselves. It's the only job we'll ever have for. the rest of our lives. It's the only job. we've always had our whole lives. You. are your human. Your job. No one else out of the 8. billion people on this earth. No one. else has the job of taking care of the. human that is you. No one. It's your.

job. So the next time you find yourself in a. situation where you're overgiving, say to yourself, what are you doing? You had one job. You had one job. Take care of this. human. And right now, this human is. starving for love because you have put. her in a situation where she is giving. non-stop to somebody else and not.

getting her needs met. And the truth is. the reason that's happening is because. your human is scared of being in a. situation that is completely different. than that because it's so this dynamic. that you don't like that you complain. about is also a dynamic that's very. comfortable for you because you feel. very safe in it. Now the job is to live. a little more dangerously. and to start making space for the idea. that there are relationships out there. that will be truly reciprocal.

But when you first find one, it's going. to be scary to you. It's going to be. uncomfortable and you're going to feel. the urge to keep g like you're going to. find someone healthy and you're going to. try and give all this stuff to them all. the time and it's going to scare them. away cuz they're going to be like why. are you doing this? I don't why why just. be a be normal. Be a person. Don't I. don't need you to do this. That's what. they're going to be like. And your job.

is going to have to be to realize, oh, I'm gonna have to put my normal way of. getting significance down. so that I can create space to be. significant in a new way and ultimately. in a much more rewarding way than being. in relationships where someone is. dependent on me and can never leave. because I just do so much for them and. they absolutely need me. [applause].

Guys, GIVE IT UP FOR MATTHEW HUSSY. Thank you, guys. [music]. If you love this episode, you're going. to love my conversation with Matthew. Hussie on how to get over your ex and. find true love in your relationships. Make a list of the things that are truly. important. >> for you to find in a partner and then be.

[music] that.