LIZZO's Dramatic Body Transformation: The Spiritual & Physical Routine That Changed Everything

It's not me anymore. Whoever Lizzo is to. the world is not really even me, and. that disconnect is depressing. The Grammy goes to Lizzo. What's making you feel like now's the. right time, and what's giving you the. confidence and courage to feel that way? I think what I learned about fame is. even if that's really me, it just. becomes kind of like character. It's a. brand that now doesn't belong to you. anymore. There was a huge scandal I was dealing. with a lot.

I had my first panic attack ever, and I. had this thought I was just like, "You. want to die? Okay, we'll just die. Like, nobody will care.". I think it's also hard when the things. that you stand for are the same things. that you're being scrutinized for. So, when I pop out on a red carpet, or. when a video suddenly goes viral and my. body's different, it appears like it was. overnight. The weight that is no longer on me is.

not just fat or physical. I released so. much to get to this point. And to be. honest with you, I don't feel like I've. expressed myself fully in the last 2. years. The number one health and. wellness podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay. Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty. Oh my gosh. Uh Lizzo, it is so great to. have you here. I have been wanting to do. this for years. We're such huge fans. here, and the last time I saw you, you. were performing live at Cannes uh Lions.

You were on stage for the iHeart. Festival. I was out there, and I'd been. told that I had two front row seats. reserved so that I could hear you. Yeah. Now, what happened is I came into the. event, I got into a few conversations. My podcast producer, who's in the back. right now, was meant to take me to this. seat. She's such a big fan that she. forgot to take me to this seat. So, by. the time I wanted to make it to the sea, the whole crowd was covered. She was. dancing in the front row. She claims she.

claims you said to that you were really. proud of her dancing skills or shout at. something out at her in a really cool. way. I'll have to verify what it was, but I didn't get to be front row. So, I. was sitting at the back enjoying your. music from the back. And so. row now, baby. I know. How lucky am I? How lucky am I? But no, honestly, we're. such big fans here. And like I said, we've been looking forward to this. And. even the first few seconds we've just. been powering and going back and forth. It's been awesome. Oh, yeah. We've been. chatting it up, honey. Uh I love it. All right. Well, I want to.

ask you. I saw that video on your. Instagram. You were standing in a sound ball. Hitting I have not been to that class. yet. I have not seen that before. So, what am I doing wrong? Well, you don't. have my mama and my sister cuz that was. a Christmas gift from them. I remember. on Christmas Day they got me this It was. like a huge thing that they dragged in. that was wrapped. And I was like, "What. could y'all have possibly gotten me in. this huge and they were like, "We're. excited." And I unwrapped it and I was. like, "What Is this like a water ball?".

They're like, "No, you And I saw the. footprint. There's feet like footprint. big feet prints in it. They're like, "You stand in it." And I was like, "And. then what?" And it's like, "And then you. sound bath." And I was like, "This is. actually wild." And. so, I was having like a a really. emotional day. I was like I was very. close to crash out. I dragged it. outside, took my shoes off, put my feet in the earth for a second, stood in it, and just rang it. And I was. like, "I still don't feel better.". I was like, "I still don't feel better.". And then I hit it. I kept hitting it.

And I was like, "Oh, this is kind of. fun." And it. yeah, changed my day. I I brought out my. other bowls and I sat and I just hummed. and played them. And. it literally changed my day. And I was. actually I was pessimistic about it. I. was like, "This is not going to work.". And that was the first time you tested. it out? first time I tested the since Christmas. I tested the big one out. Wow. Yeah. I was shocked. Yeah, cuz I've never seen one with. footprints. Like I've never seen one. that you stand in. I've seen ones that. you lie down and they play them at your. head or sometimes they come and put a.

crystal on your chest. Yeah. Like I've been in those and I love them. We actually did one with my team. We do. a team retreat every year and we did one. last year, but we did it outdoors. We. went to this amazing sound healer come. and lead it. And when we woke up, we all. could see like shooting stars. I was. like, "What is going on?" And then we. realized it was Neuralink. It was Elon. Musk's like, you know. It was just this. big thing. Wow. Yeah, whatever it is. I can't. remember what it was called. But we all. woke up thinking like we could see. something magical. But it is such an. amazing experience to have sound heal. you in that frequency. Did it finally.

work when you were standing in it? Like. Yeah, my ankles started itching and I. was like, "What's going on?" Like ants. were crawling on my ankles and I kept. scratching at them and I was like, "Oh, that's it's waking it's wake it's. awakening me." It's so funny cuz I host. these um I call them ass rams once a. year. So it's like these little retreats that. I do for all of the black women in my. life that I love and I care about and. it's it's like an emotional spiritual. reset and we do sound baths in the. morning and we do sound baths at night. and this one time I was laying there and.

I like allowed myself to really just. like go and it was so trippy. We all saw. the same thing. I was like cuz she was. asking everyone they were like, "Yeah, I. saw like pink and purple." And it was. like, "Yeah, I saw pink and purple." And. it was like, "And I saw a galaxy." And. it was like, "I saw a galaxy." So we all. kind of like it's real. Yes, yes. Yes, yes. I have I have too. much proof that there's something else. going on out here and it's all kind of. guided by vibration. It's all led by. vibration. Absolutely. And and and on a very very. very base level if someone hasn't tried.

it out, A, they should try it out. And. B, it's like we all know that sound. makes us feel a certain way. There's. songs from your past that make you feel. nostalgic. There's music that can make. you cry instantly. There's sounds that. make you feel thoughtful and reflective. We all now work to lo-fi beats or. whatever it is on YouTube playlists and. there's a sense that sound and frequency. has an impact on us and this is just. taking it to another level. So The way I. like to describe it cuz I'm very like. science and woo woo. Like I it it Me. too. I'm a Taurus so you know I need.

like the grounding of it. We're constantly vibrating. I think when. people hear vibration they think like. okay girl like oh we're on a vibe. I'm. like no you know your heart is beating. constantly. Your blood is coursing. through your veins and you're like made. mostly of water. So when your heart is. beating it's sending a vibration through. your entire body. Like if you sit still. enough you can feel like the vibration. So it's like everything is constantly. vibrating and you can vibrate high and. you can vibrate low and you actually.

have the power to control that. And once. I learned that I was like oh. it's like a cheat code to life to. existing. So well said. I love that. And. did the playing of the sound bowls come. naturally to you? I can play anything. I. I've found that like I can like if I. lick my finger and I have a crystal. glass I can make a sound. I think that's. just one of one of my gifts is that like. when I was a kid I played recorder and. then I played flute and then I played. piccolo and then I can play clarinet and. I can play piano and now I play guitar.

So I think with sound bowls I think I I. just am a instrumentalist and it's an. instrument. Give me an instrument and. I'mma make a beautiful sound. Yeah that's impressive cuz it's not easy. to do. It's pretty challenging so that's. awesome. I I can't I'm the guy who can't. even whistle so let alone like. Wait so you can't do the bowls? no no it's hard. It's hard. My wife's a. bit better than me. We have we have a. few beautiful ones at home but it's. hard. Oh I can really make them sing to where. your ears start to it gets like really. loud in your ears and you're like woah. woah woah woah woah is somebody in there. with like a bowl in my head? That's how.

it start to feel sometimes. to come to your one of your ass rooms if. I'm allowed. Yeah. Oh my god we're going to open up ass. room to everybody very soon. I love it. That's so fun. And Lisa I. know you're you're huge astrology, right? Like that's something that you're. really passionate about. I was. wondering, has have you ever had a. conversation with an astrologist that. that really changed your life? Something. they said that just shifted everything. Yes. Um Chani Nicholas is my like. astrologer. And so like every eclipse. season I'm texting her. I'm like, "Hey,

happy eclipse season. What's happening?". But when I So I've I've had uh knowledge. of my sign ever since I was a little. kid. Like So I was super into the. crystals and like, "Oh, I'm a Taurus and. like my dad's a Libra. My mom's a. Virgo." And like compatibility. But then. as I got older, when I met Chani. Nicholas, she taught me about the chart. and how like you're more than just your. sun sign and how your big three, but. it's like you're more than your big. three, too. You got these like asteroids. that go through and you've got these. like you've got the you've got.

everything. Your your Venus matters. Your Mercury matters. Your That really. reframed how I think of myself because. it kind of opened me up to being like, "Oh, I'm the universe. Like I contain. multitudes." Like if I see a Taurus. trait that doesn't resonate with me, is. there a Gemini trait that resonates with. me? Is there a Virgo trait that. resonates with me? And I think the most. impactful thing I learned from her. lately. is that we have like house years. And so 2023, I was in a 12th house year.

And that's the year of hidden enemies. That's the year of shadow work. And once. she told me that, it like really. unlocked for me cuz I was like, "Oh, that makes sense." And then she was. like, "You're going into a first house. year." So I've been in a first house. year since April 2024. And now my birthday's coming up in April. 2025. And I have taken advantage of this. first house year because I'm a Leo. rising. And my first house is all about. self and how I present. So I was just.

like, "I'm going to go in." Like. everything is routined. Everything is. like. practice. I've just like I'm so deep. into my practice and like loving on. myself and and rediscovering and. redefining who I am. And now when I move. into my second house here, I'mma take. advantage of that, too. What's different about the second house. here that you move into? So, it's going. to be Virgo, which is my moon, and. actually it's these practices that I've. been doing on an external level, how I.

like make them internal. You know, how I. reframe my membrane. And and rework the the nuts and bolts in. my brain and like make it like my life. Like right now it's a routine, but I'm. going to make it a lifestyle. And I'm. going to get really cerebral with my. Virgo moon, and I'm going to get really. meticulous, and I'm going to get really. into paint like hard working, cuz that's. what that Virgo is. That Virgo allows me. to like work my ass off, and that's. where I really shine, and I'm that's. where I'm really the most happy. It's. when I'm working, honestly. Yeah, I'm a.

Virgo. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah, I. was like, "Oh, yeah." We're related a. little bit. Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And I. love how you're describing it. Sounds. like you're a phenomenal astrologer. because I feel like there's such a deep. way of knowing how to use it, right? It's not just something that I think for. all of us who've been exposed to. astrology since we were young, it was. like, "Oh my god, it knows me. It's. predicting. It's It's this. It's. compatibility." But it's so much more. It's like, "How are you using it for. personal growth and self growth? Like, how do you how do you use that as, okay,

this is what I'm going to focus on?". Well, first of all, I used to be like, "Oh, it's what I am, and that's why.". But it's not like, "Oh, I. I am a Taurus." It's, "I have Taurus.". Which I think gives it a little bit more. purposefulness, and it makes it a tool. So, I'm like, "How can I use my Leo. rising right now?" Big hair, big. personality, big identity, big bold. expression, color, fire. How can I use. this fire right now because that's what. I have right now. And then when I'm in.

Virgo, how do I use this earth? How do I. use this knowledge? How do I use this. this quest for knowledge? This hard. workingness? This steadfastedness? How do I use that? How do I use the. private parts of myself and protect the. private parts of myself? I think that is. how astrology has been very helpful to. me because it's not just like what I am. I don't just like settle for it. I'm. like like oh well, that's why because. they they are they are Scorpio. That's. why. No, it's like they have Scorpio. And that's what they're choosing to do.

with it. I have Taurus and what I'm. choosing to do with it is be ruled by. Venus. I want to be all things beauty. and love. You know what I mean? With a. little bit of sprinkle of hard work. Yeah, yeah. And you know, gluttony. Little gluttony. I love that. I I love the way you talk. about astrology. It's it's so refreshing. because obviously you're so deep into. it. And I think that's and it sounds. like that's similar to why you at last. year you said, "I'm taking a gap year. I'm going to protect my peace." Was that. part of it to know that you're in that. house? Yeah, like that was giving you.

that sense as well? Man, once I learned. the what a 12th house year is, it did. kind of make sense. You know, cuz I'll. fight against. closing up and and and isolating. I'll. fight against it because it was like a. toxic trait that I had when I was. younger. Like I would get And mind you, I already told you I've been crying a. lot lately. So if I cry, it's not. because I'm sad. I just I'm real. sensitive lately and googly-eyed. But. when I was younger, instead of. expressing myself, I would lock up and.

get really quiet and shut down and just. like hold it all in. And I went to a. point where I didn't speak for like a. whole summer and when I was younger. I. didn't talk to anyone. I didn't talk out. loud. The only time I used my voice was. at night and I would sing to myself and. that was it. So I thought that that was. a really toxic trait and I have been. working on expressing myself. So when. you see me online, that's a form of. expression for me that I've worked to. get to. When I talk to the people who I. work with, that's a form of expression. that I worked really hard to get. When I.

express myself to my friends and my. family and my loved ones, I worked hard. for this. So, to be quiet was like, oh. my gosh, I'm reverting back to a version. of myself that that I worked away from. But, I think once I learned like, hey. girl, you don't always need to be. you don't always need to talk. Sometimes. you need to sit back and just be quiet. and observe what's in front of you now. and be present. Stop being in the. future, stop lamenting in the past. What's in front of you right now? And.

like when I said I was on a gap year, I. was in the middle of it. And I think people were like, oh, she's. about to take a whole year off. I'm. like, no, I was just in the middle of. it. I just hadn't like expressed myself. really. And to be honest with you, I. don't feel like I've expressed myself. fully in the last 2 years, like how I. want to. I feel like I've been kind of. holding my tongue and like staying to. myself. But, I think that it's for the. best. Cuz you know, running your mouth these.

days, sometimes it's just unnecessary. And sometimes it can get you into some. stuff you wasn't even trying to get into. because people will misinterpret it and. run with it. Yeah. As I found when I was. like, I'm taking a gap year. I'm. protecting my peace. But, like people. were like, wait, so what's that supposed. to mean? I'm like, oh, oops, I just I. just I just wanted to let you guys know. where I'm at right now. I'm in Bali and. I'm having a good time and I'm just like. quiet. Oops, maybe I should have stayed quiet. It almost seems like you feel more.

comfortable now like being stepping your. toe back in, wanting to show more of. yourself, wanting to be that way. What's. making you feel like now's the right. time and what's giving you the. confidence and courage to feel that way? What I feel like people don't know is. when you are a music artist, you are. either on cycle or off cycle for an. album. I think nowadays, there's much fast. turnaround with music and there's like. the deluxe of an album is kind of like a. industry standard that I think we've.

forgotten like what it means to be on. cycle and off cycle cuz everyone's. always on. I had planned on being off cycle. That. means you're not in the media, you're. not doing interviews, your album cycle. is done, like you're not going to be. played on the radio as much because. people aren't working your records, you're not going to be promoting. anything because you're working on the. next album so you can be on cycle and. you can be back in the media and back in. the press and back on tour. And I think like the best most simplest.

answer as to why I'm back now is cuz my. album's done. Like it really this is my. job, you know? I am a musical artist, I. make studio albums, I put them out, I. promote them, I tour them, and I do it. because I'm really good at music and I. really want to help people with music. because I know that music has saved my. life. So I know it can save someone. else's life. You know what I mean? And I. think that's like the most simple. answer, but I think it's loaded this.

time because at the exact same time. I was like, I'm going on a vacation. I'm. going to be in Japan. I'm going to go to. Kyoto and be in the woods and like. disappear. I also had a huge scandal come out. And I think that it looked like I was. shut down or silenced or hiding when. really it was like, but it's it's just. the end of my album cycle and this was. planned. So I think this album cycle I'm. going to have to do a lot of work that.

I'm cool with. expressing that and explaining that. because I don't think people knew or. know the difference between me being. like, oh I'm off cycle. I'm in Japan, I'm in the woods, and I'm I'm. meditating. And oh, this scandal just happened. Where's Lizzo? You what I mean? So, I. I'm aware of that, I'm cognizant of it, and I'm up for the challenge of. explaining this to the people who care. about me, cuz they deserve to know, honestly. Yeah, I mean, it's First of. all, I think it's always an education. learning about how a business works. And.

I think if you're not in the business, you don't really get it. And I think. that's true for any career whatsoever, especially careers in the public eye, right? You're like, "Oh, yeah, where did. that person go?" And it's like, well, the way you launch music is you need. time to make music. Yes. And and it takes how much time? And and. it's very visible, cuz music's the. biggest thing in the world. So, you see. someone for a few months, and then you. don't see them again when they're. working on it. So, you're saying that. not only were you meditating, you were. traveling, you were actually working on. new music. So, when you said I was. protecting my peace, I was taking a. break, for the last year you were.

working on music. That's what we're. hearing now. Baby, when I The last day. of my tour was in Tokyo, I spent a whole month in Tokyo and. Kyoto. It was my first time in Japan. It. was my dream place. I always want to go. to South as a little girl watching. anime. I took that time. I stepped foot back. into America, and I walked into the. studio. I've been in the studio since. October 2023. And I think I finished my. last studio session for.

Love in Real Life. last week, when I mastered it. I've been working constantly this whole. time. I didn't take no time off. I. couldn't. I really honestly couldn't. I. took that little time in Japan that I. allowed it for myself, and I got in the. kitchen. And I rolled my sleeves up, cuz I knew I. was going to have to do my biggest one. Mhm. You know? Yeah. And then your. music's great. Thank you. Yeah, it's awesome. And and I feel like. I mean, even when you called it Love in.

Real Life, I feel like how much of that was. inspired by what you personally had to. go through and the challenges, or how. much was that was just pulling from. other parts of your life? Was it. disconnected or was it connected? Everything that I do. I pull from the strife and the grief. that happens to me. Because the joy that I find eventually, I think is the helpful part. I've never. named an album before writing a song. before. Like with Cuz I Love You, I. wrote Cuz I Love You. I was like, "Okay,

this this sound like the thesis of the. album. Okay, we're going to call this. album Cuz I Love You.". I wrote Special. and I was like, "This sounds like the. heart of the album. I'm going to name. this album Special.". When I say I've had the name Love and. War Life since. September, October 2023, and I didn't write the. record Love and War Life until maybe. like February. 2024. Because I had a very specific. experience, and I'd love to share it. I.

I I I want to talk about it as much as I. can. And I And I never like repeating. stories because I just feel like. everyone's different. I'm like, "Let me. give you something different." But this. story. was so life-save like life-changing. I. I told you like when I was in Japan, you. know, I was doing the best I can, but. you know, there was a huge scandal. I. was dealing with a lot. When I touched. down in Los Angeles, it didn't hit me. how deeply affected I was because I had. been trying to be happy for everyone.

else. I had had my best friend was there. with her kids, and I was trying to be. happy for everybody. I was like, "And. I'm in Japan. I should be happy." So I. like I was like, "Be happy." I got in. LA. I had my first panic attack ever. I. was in the car coming home from the. airport. And I like I was like, "Something's wrong with my chest." And I. was like, "Okay." And I've dealt with. anxiety for years. But this felt different. And I was like, "Okay, something's going on with my. chest." And I was like, "Okay, do do. your anxiety protocol." And anxiety. protocol wasn't working. Like breathing and the.

circular breath, and I was like, "No, something is pressing on my chest." And. I had this thought. I was just like. everybody hates me. I Everybody hates me for something that. isn't true, but at the end of the day, because of the position I'm in, everybody hates me, and there's nothing. you can do about it. And I was like, okay. I got into the. house, I could barely walk, and I like collapsed by my bed and was. like, oh I couldn't breathe, and I.

was like. And I was by the bed, and I couldn't. breathe, and something was pressing on. my chest, and from then on, I have been in a state of depression. because I didn't know how to fix it. I was so And I'm not trying to make. nobody feel bad for me, but man, woo, baby, I was dark, and I was scared. of people. I was like. I was like, you can't trust anyone. You. You can't love anyone. I don't want to.

talk to nobody, you know, because there. was like a lot going on where like. people were. getting weird phone calls from people, and there was like weird like. stuff going on that I had never. experienced before, cuz I was like, this. This is wild. This is a whole 'nother. level of what I my job that I've never. experienced. And so I was scared, and I was like, I'm. going to go to this concert because I. really wanted to go to the concert, and. I was like terrified to go. I was like, I know I'm going to walk out, and. somebody's going to look at me and be.

like. And you know, I was just like, and. there's nothing you can do about it. But I went anyway. And. man, when I say it was the opposite, I walked out, and. I just seen so many people look at me, and they were like. Lizzo! They were like, oh my god. They. were like, come here. I love you. I love. you. And it was just people in the. crowd, and I was hugging them, and they. was hugging me, and I'm telling you like.

people were They were like, yes! Yes! They were just like it would felt like. me cheering me on being like, "You did. it. You know, you got over your fear, you got outside. You can trust people. again, you can love people. People do. love you. You're okay. And you know. what? There's something you can do about. it and you did it. You stepped outside.". And I was like, "This is the only This. is the only thing that's real.". You can't get this kind of love on the. internet. You can't. You absolutely. can't. And I thought I could for years.

Years because I built my platform on the. validation of sharing myself and being. myself with the internet and being. embraced and being shown love. And I was. like, "This is love.". No, love is in real life. And I felt it from not it I won't even. say they're fans of my music, just. people. Oh, it was the most life-saving thing. And I was like, "I have to name my album. Love in Real Life." because I know I'm. not the only person. I know I'm not the.

only person who sits on their phone and. creates a version of themself or is told. by the world who they are and starts to. believe it even if it's not really who. you are. You're like, "Maybe I am not good enough. Maybe I. Maybe I'm not pretty. Maybe I'm not. cool. Maybe" And it's like, "No, this is. a lie.". This may be a reflection of some things. and some real things do happen on here. and I love the internet. I'm a child of. the internet. Like, I get down with. social media. But I also know that if.

your if your only sense of self and your. only form of validation is coming from. social media or coming from your phone. or coming from a text back or coming. from a dating app, it's not going to. fill you up like being in the real world. and building community with people and. getting over your fear of it because it. is scary. Yeah. And so I've held that. title and I was like I wrote like four. Love in Real Lifes. until I finally settled on the the party. stadium version. I said, "Why is this.

one so lit?" Like I wrote these deep. emotional ones, and then I wrote this. one and was like, "Well, that's Lizzo.". And I think that was when I when I. realized, "Oh, this is who I am. I go. through this really, really tough. man, and it's fine because I have. learned to use my alchemy and turn it. into gold and turn it into. meaningfulness and like acts of. rebellious joy that people can use in. the world, and I'm cool with it. Mhm. That's my mission. Yeah, I love.

that. I love that. One of the things that I. think you talked about there, which is. so powerful, is you go through something. really difficult. On the other side of. it, there's this love and real life. But. in between, there's the depression, the. darkness, the. the isolation, the worry, the fear, and. we all go through that. We all. experience at some point in our life. where we're almost feeling like we have. to hide. We feel, like you said, "I. don't know who to trust, who to love. Will people accept me?" How did you go. through that? Like what was that.

timeline like? Like what did it look. like when you woke up? What What did you. do that helped? What did you Who. supported you? How How did it look? Man. Cuz that's hard. I. inadvertently set a lot of boundaries at. that time, and they were more like. defenses because I was so afraid. of people that even the people that I. was close to, I just I set up these. boundaries, and I and I disappeared into. myself. I I'm not even going to sit up.

here and and lie and be like, "I handled. it perfectly." I didn't. I didn't. It was very messy. And I was hurt by people that I loved, and I hurt people that I loved at the. time. This is and talking about the. depression period. I'm not talking about. me as a boss. I'm not talking about. work. No, I'm talking about. October 2023.

to now. And. I fought. really, really hard. for myself. And sometimes when you fight, it get. real messy. I was scrapping. I was. fighting for my life. There was times when it was like, you. want to die? Okay, well just die. Like. nobody will care. And I was like, oh, I'm talking to. myself like that? When did this happen?

I'm like, love yourself. I'm like, stay. positive. I'm like, no, you have to. live. You have to live for your mommy. You have to live for the And it was. like, no, you want to die? Die. Like this is the time to do it because. no, everyone will hate you and nobody. cares. And I think that. defensiveness. isolated me really bad. But there's. something about isolation. that turns into solitude that turns into. introspection. that turns into.

I am sitting alone with myself and I can. finally see. her. I was covered up by so much that I. couldn't see myself. I was I was blinded. by, you know, all these people in my. space telling me who I am. I was blinded. by my career, standing on stage and. 20,000 people saying, I love you. You're. amazing. I'm like, okay, thank you. Like, I got to push through. And it's. you. I wasn't I was never alone. I was never alone.

Even when I was at home, I'd be like, you want to come over? Let me Let me. throw up Let me throw something. Let me. throw a pool party. Let me Let me have. people come over and drink wine. Like. maybe it was a fear of being alone with. myself. Maybe it was a lack of. self-awareness. But in that isolation. where I think my defensiveness had. pushed off and pushed away the people I. loved the most, I I pushed them all. away. I got to like sit with. this person and I saw the things that.

other people saw sometimes that aren't. the coolest or the nicest or that I'm. the most proud of. I'm like, you are. you're moody, you're uncomfortable. You forgot who you are. You forgot why you're here. And. I think that during that time I. embraced that part of myself. It's like, okay, you're moody, be in a mood, but what do you need to do.

to make yourself feel better in that. mood? And what can you do to protect. yourself in that mood and protect. others? Sit by yourself, Read a book. Learn how to finally consistently. meditate. Exercise. Get some fresh air. Get in the sun. And it was like I forced. myself to do that That is not. easy. I don't I didn't want to exercise. at first. Hell no. But I got on got that. cardio machine and I would I was like, I. never regret moving my body. I never.

regret it. I started it's an anxiety. technique. It's like you focus on on. your senses. Like, what can I smell? What can I taste? What can I see? What. can I feel? And I started doing that. not intentionally. I'm not a genius when. it comes to this I just started. doing it and I was like, what are you. eating? What are you putting in your. body? You're putting things in your body. that's making you sick. You know, what. are you doing on a daily basis? You're. you're you're bed rotting. And that's fine sometimes, but also when.

you're always doing it, your body. doesn't move. You know, what are you. looking at? What are you watching on TV? I had to throw my phone away. I'm about. to throw my phone away. I'm like, oh. god, my erase yourself. I threw my phone. away. I did not look at it. I told my team I. said anything I need to post or anything. I want to post, you post it for me. I. don't want to look at that no more. And that was hard, too, because I love. the internet, but it's doing a lot of. things that are hard.

To finally be like, this is who I am. and I need to become I need to love her. and I need to to make her the best. version of myself. Because guess what? Even after all this even after. looking at this aspect of myself that I. was like, wow, that's not my favorite. part of myself, you know, after all the. things I've been through, all the. relationships that have come and gone in. my life, I still deserve it. I really. do. And it's all I have. And it's all I.

got. Sorry for cussing. It's all I got. Yeah. Cuz what are you going to sit up and. you're going to beat yourself up for the. rest of your life about anything that. could have happened or any. misunderstanding or any, you know what. I'm saying? Well, you're going to have a miserable. life. Do you want a miserable life? I. sat and had to ask myself that. I'm. like, do you want to be miserable? Do. you want to feel bad? Or do you want to. get back to doing what you do? Mhm. And. I was like, damn it, I got to do what I. do.

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been through a feeling like that where. they've just gone. yeah, I just I don't think I can do it. anymore. I don't I don't think I can do. it again. And And one thing you said. there, and I know we were talking about. Steve Jobs earlier, Steve Jobs always. talked about how there's such a need to. disconnect from the outer noise to hear. your inner voice. And so you can't. really hear your inner voice. unless the outer noise. And when you're. talking about throwing your phone away. and disconnecting, and sometimes when. we're pushing away the outer noise, we. might not do it in the most graceful. way. Yeah. Because we've realized that.

tension between like. oh, but I was used to that noise being. my voice. Yes. And now that noise isn't what I. want to hear, and now I actually have to. find my voice. Now I actually have to. like discover it again. I have to like. figure out what it's even saying and. what it sounds like, right? That's. That's where you had to go through that. process. That's hard because it's such It can. feel so lonely. Mhm. And it can feel so. isolating as you said. Yep. As you're.

dealing with that and you're kind of. tipping your toe back into doing what. you love, and you go out and you have. that you said like love in real life. And I love the way you explained that. I'm glad you told that story. Yeah. When. I hear you, I feel the same way. It's. like. when you go out in in the real world, people aren't shouting that stuff that. they shout on the internet. No one's. commenting the thing that you heard in. the comment section. You're not hearing. that when you're out and about. You're seeing real people have real. reactions, and there's this look in. their eyes that we all feel and the.

energy. How did it feel after that day? Was it. from that day you were like, all right, now I feel more confident or do you. still go back and forth sometimes? Hell no, I'm not even there now. Like, even you being like, "Oh my gosh, my. wife is such a huge fan and we've wanted. you on the show for a while." I was. like, "Really? Like, I don't It's true. I don't believe it fully and I don't. feel it fully and I don't know what that. is. Maybe it's from like, you know, I. was like a um. kind of a nerdy kid in high school and I. would or especially middle school and I.

was like, you know, teased in middle. school real bad and like, maybe it's. that like, I'm not cool mentality that. like, never goes away because those are. such formative years. So, please be nice. to people in high school. cuz it really shapes your whole life. Um. it made me cool. It made me a diamond. But, um. I I still struggle. with believing. love and believing I am worthy of love. and believing that I am loved.

I think that those are motifs that are. definitely still difficult for me and I. can throw little tantrums about, but I. need but that's on me. I need to sit. back. like, honestly, putting it all out here. I'll be on the internet sometimes. talking noise and it's and it's my. insecurities. And I own that. I want to be more. careful with that because of the. position that I'm in now, you know, the. responsibility I have now in the state. of the internet now. I can't just be projecting my. insecurities on the internet. I think.

there is a more. responsible way to do it to where people. understand me more and that people know. where I'm coming from and I can make it. more of a personal thing instead of. these blanket statements and cuz it. sounds like it's coming from a place of. anger, but it's really not. But, it's. just coming from these insecure moments. that I have sometimes where I feel like, man, I feel like misunderstood and I feel. like people don't get me and I feel like. people don't see me and I'm like, how do. I express myself in a way where you get. me and you feel me and you see me and. like.

I want you to know and I'm working on. it. So before you would say it and now. you're reflecting. Um, yes. Before I would say it and when. I say before I mean like a couple weeks. ago. I'm still I'm man, I'm human man. I am. I'm really in this thing human flesh and. blood. It's so wild but like I think. that I'm also human enough to admit. where I could be better. Yeah. And those. are the places where I could be better.

I was in that giant sound bowl banging. that thing because it kept me from going. on Twitch. It kept me from going on Blue. Sky or going on you know what I'm. saying? Tik Tok and just. because that's not the place for it. anymore. I think there's enough going on. in the world. There's enough to be. outraged about. There's enough pain. circulating on the internet. I don't. need to share. my. pain. Mhm. I need to share my joy. I. need to share my love. I'm a very. blessed person. I get to make music for. a living. I have people who love me. I.

have people who've never met me who love. me because of the music that I make and. I get to travel all over the world and. connect with those people and touch. those people. I can support my family. financially. As a fat black woman who. was born in Detroit and raised in. Houston, Texas, the odds were stacked. against me and I beat the odds and I'm. here and I'm surviving and thriving in. this world. I am grateful. And I think. that my position is to always show that. gratitude. I I want to live in a.

constant state of gratitude and I want. to and I want to emit that, you know, and I want to just really show the world. love at all times. They don't need They. don't need no more darkness. There's. enough darkness in the world. It don't. need to come from somebody like me. If I. get insecure sometimes, call your mama. Call your mama. You know what I'm. saying? Like, girl. So, that's that's. where I'm growing as a person. And I'm. And I'm proud of the person I'm. becoming. Yeah. Well, listen, I was. going to say, I think it's your music,

but it's also cuz you mean something to. people. You know, like you you've done So, like. when I think about my wife and what I. was sharing with you earlier, it's cuz. you mean something to her. When I was. talking about Helena, my producer, it's. cuz you mean something to her. Like. I think you mean something to people. It's It's beyond just They love your. music, for sure. Um but you mean. something to people, and I think that. that's why, like you said, when we were. at school, it was all about whether you. were cool or whether you were trendy or. whether you were, you know, the it girl. or guy or whatever it was. But it's almost like it's even beyond.

that. Cuz when you mean something, it's. beyond being cool and relevant. I think. that's where like. a lot of my points of depression were. coming from. Because. I had been. so. fearlessly myself for years. The person. that you saw was the person that you. got. That was really me, and that is. really me. The um. issues that I spoke about, I really care.

about. The issues I stood up for, I. really. want to see change in. I really matters. to me. The platforms that I give people, that's. real. All of that is real. And I think. what I learned about fame is. even if that's really me, it just. becomes kind of like. a a fictional story that you It's a. character. It's a brand. It's a thing. that now doesn't belong to you anymore.

And when it got changed, that was what really up my sense of. self, cuz I was like. well, now the person that. you know, the world is saying I am, that's not even me. And that's shadow work. I was like, that's like some shadow self that was. created out of me not being precautious. and careful in protecting myself, but I. think that. it really depresses me to feel like it's.

not me anymore. Whoever Lizzo is to the. world is not really even me. And that. disconnect is is depressing. And I think. the only remedy to that is continuing to. be myself. That's the only is time. I just have to. continue to be me and people will see me. for who I am. But I think for a long. time I was really depressed about like, oh damn, like now there's this like fake. character now. There's like this like.

and and and. you know, I can't blame or. judge people for believing it, for. believing that's who I am. I can't. because. I would be in the same position, you know? So, I take the fact that I mean something to. people very. seriously. I take it to heart. And it's. why I have moved the way that I have. moved my entire career.

And it's why I when I when when things. happened, I would speak on it. I would. take accountability. It's why I did. those things because I know that. And I. think when it was out of my control and. someone else could tell a story about me. that wasn't true and people believed it, it crushed me. Because I know that I mean something to. people. And it's why I'm careful to this. day. I'm never going to stop being care. If anything, I'm more careful now. I. can't just let any author into my life.

who can make me a villain. I can't do. that anymore. Cuz I am the author. And I'm taking back my narrative by. continuing to tell my story for me. And. thank you for giving me the opportunity. to do that. No, of course. I I I I think. I think everyone deserves that. You. know, everyone needs that. And. I I think it's also hard when. the things that you stand for. are the same things that you're being. scrutinized for, right? It's like that's. that's what's so hard about it. It's. like when you stand for inclusivity and.

empowerment, being questioned for those. same things is is like so painful. And. it kind of like dismantles your whole. identity even for yourself. Yeah. So, I. can imagine that's really hard. And. that's why I think everyone needs an. opportunity and a platform to be able to. do that. But it feels like strangely. like. it's this thing now where it's like, okay, if I stand up for inclusivity, it's invalidated. Or if I stand up for. black women, it's invalidated. If I. stand up for body positivity and fatness. and and stand it up against fat phobia,

it's invalidated because of that. And I. was like, wow, that's convenient. Like, these are the things I truly believe in. I'm not about to just pick up some new. causes because it's the thing to do. I. was a political and very vocal. activist artist before it was the trend, before teams were telling artists to. speak up. Like, I was just doing it. because I wanted to. It's an. uncomfortable position to be in right. now because I also know I have a. responsibility to.

like I said, only bring love. And I. think me speaking on certain things, or. even if I feel like I'm advocating for. something, it's kind of creating more. hate and and in chaos than what I. intended. So, it's just like, sometimes. you just got to shut. Yeah. And that's hard and that's hard, too, because you really care about it, right? Like, I think that's the. challenge. It's like, you keep doing. something because you really care about. it. That's why you started in the first. place. But then sometimes you're like, well, maybe it'd be smarter for me to. not comment on it.

Yeah. because it's safer. And not just. safer for me, but like safer for the. public. You know, I don't want to create. divisiveness. I really don't. There's. enough discourse. There's enough. division. And I think that like me doing. something that I thought was like, you. know, for a good cause or like from the. goodness of my heart, if it's taken and. creates. negative discourse where people are. going back and forth, I won't say. nothing. Mhm. I won't say nothing at all. Don't. don't worry about me. You don't got to. worry about me at all.

Don't you worry, honey. And before you would have that wouldn't. have been your reaction, right? Before? No, because I feel like there was no. opposition. I feel like when I spoke up, the only opposition was the opposition. to the cause. I think now when I speak. up on a for something, there's. opposition to me. It's like, ah, bad. messenger. Good right message, bad. messenger. And I'm like, oh, you know. what? Valid. Absolutely valid. As a as a. famous person or a celebrity right now,

this is what I signed up for. And I and. I'm like, so I'm not I'm not. complaining. I can't complain. I'm do. it. Like I'm I'm going to just be quiet. because I understand that it's creating. more confusion than solution. And I only. want I'm a solutionary. I'm a. solutionary. I like to bring solutions. I like to only speak up if I know it's. going to help in some way. And if it. ain't helping, zip it. Zip it. I like that. Solutionary. Yeah.

Solutions, not confusion. That is. definitely I like that. And that's a. great way for all of us to think about. stuff. Yeah. In our own personal life, whether it's. public or not, it's like, is me speaking. creating more confusion or is it. actually getting us more clarity? Is it. actually pushing us in the right. direction? Have you felt you were saying. like obviously when you go through. something like this, you got to become. more careful about you were saying you. don't want someone else to become an. author of your journey. Yeah. It's like picking the people that. are close to you becomes harder and. harder and harder. Has has that been.

like a real focus for you in surrounding. yourself with the right frequency and. vibration and how how do you do that? I. don't have any um new people in my life. anymore and I'm very careful about and. and honestly a lot of relationships that. I had are gone. Like and and it's not. like bad, it's just like. I just. I stopped. chasing. cuz I. How do I say this? How do I say this? I.

see the good in everyone. And I have seen the good in some really. kind of like broken people. who have been have done harmful things, but I always see the potential. I always. see the good and it's like it's like. that inner child in me that's like, "Oh. my gosh, I can help them. Like but they. are good." And I think that um. when they would do harmful things to me. I had a sense of forgiveness and. understanding and I would be like, "I.

know that's not you.". And so I would chase and pursue that. relationship and and I'm not talking. about romance, I'm talking about people. I worked with, talking about friends who. were also people I worked with. I was like I was hiring my best friends, you know? And I would kind of see past it and. meanwhile I was allowing. something potentially nefarious or not. good for me into my space, right? So.

I realized and I think people all over. the world, if you when you put up a. boundary. that protects yourself and you stop. chasing. the people who continually hurt you, you'll find that pretty soon they'll be. gone. And you'll be like, "Wait a minute. I. was keeping this afloat the whole time? It was me?". And so when I isolated a lot of people. just sailed away.

And. I opened my eyes and was like, who's. left? And. the people that are left are, you know, my best friend who I've known since like. fourth grade. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. And I love her and I cherish. her. Um. my boyfriend, you know? And I'm just. like, wow. This is cool. Mhm. I don't need to. pursue anything or anyone anymore. I'm.

full. And I think that comes from that. isolation. And I think it comes from. appreciating the people that you have. And from like a business perspective. Mhm. when you're friends with somebody. and you hire them. it's just like it gets the the power. dynamic. up the relationship. up the. social structure of the relationship. And it's something that you know, I. wanted to do when I was younger. I was. like, yeah, put money in my friends'. pockets. Like, let's go. Let's turn up. Let's see the world. Let's.

And it was. you know, something I I loved. But then. I also realized. it's not fair to them to be their boss. and their friend. And that will help. keep things just clean. Yeah. I just want And like I said, simple solutions. Yeah. I don't want no. more confusion ever again. I want my. friends to be my friends. And I want my. employees to be my employees. Yeah. And this is this is so real and I. appreciate how like real you're being. about it and how direct it is because I.

do think that it's A, it's glorified to. be like, we should be like a family and. everything should be really close. And I. think that's like idealized, it's. glorified. Like, that's what people talk. about. And I think recently a lot of. people have been talking about how teams. should not actually operate as families, they should operate as teams. Like teams. like a sports team. There's a coach, there's players. The way they operate is. like this camaraderie, there's. collaboration, but there's an energy of. like, "No, we're playing here to win.". That's the goal of a team is to win. Yeah.

of a family is not to win. The goal of a. family is to to just be safe. And wait a minute, but we're at work to. win and do stuff. We have results and. targets. Families don't have targets. Right. Families don't have results. Families. don't have goals. Yeah. The goal of a. family is just to stay together. Mhm. And you can see how it plays on our. minds and I've had that, too. Like, I. used to think that team should be. family, too, and there's a family energy. and I'm like, "That's great, but it's. like there's just a different value. system. Yeah. to a team and a family. And and I. think there's so much to be said for.

this that you only learn by going. through it. Yeah. You don't know this when you. start. Like, I think about how much I've. had to learn. moving into this space for myself, doing. this for the last 10 years. It's like, Yeah. I didn't know. I've never built a. team before. And. Mhm. just cuz I'm good at one thing. doesn't mean I know everything about. everything. Mhm. And I think there's a lot of. pressure on artists, creatives, musicians to know about everything Yeah. when your talent is kind of like here, right? Yes. It's like your talent is music and. creation and. Yeah. artistry and storytelling. And so.

you make everything music and creation. and artistry and you're like, "Oh, this. should be a creative space and this. should be relaxed." And everyone's like, "No, man, this is a well-oiled machine.". Yeah. If Lizzo is the brand that's a. company, you know what I mean? It's like. everybody has their their. their role and it's just like, know your. role and stay in your lane. Mhm. That's. something that I've learned. It's I. don't know. It's. I'm not out of it, man. I'm I'm still. Yeah. learning what's coming next, but.

I'm so grateful to God because. this. experience. and I'm and I'm not just talking about. like. the scandal. I'm talking about the last. like 2 years of my life, the last like. all of this. it has prepared me for I think something. so incredible that I needed to be ready. for, that I needed to be this way for. You know what I mean? Because I was. holding on to a lot of.

toxicity. I really was because. that's just the kind of like and I'm not. even talking about toxicity within. myself. I mean like toxic systems and. structures and and people. I held on to. them because I was just like I'm a. Taurus, you know, I'm I'm very loyal. I'm just like. till the wheels fall off and it's like. man let go and flow. And I think that I. I had to learn that like God had tried. to show me this so many ways. It was. like.

knock me over the head. I was like yeah, but that person was just mean. Knock me. over the head. Yeah, but that was just a. misunderstanding. Knock me over the. head. It was like yeah, wake up. Wake up. Let go. You know, when you. can't let go, you hold on to things that. weigh you down. And I'm not even trying to talk bad. about nobody because I feel like I. people needed to let me go too. Honestly, there are some relationships. and dynamics that I know that like I was. keeping them back from greatness. Do you.

know what I mean? Or or not even let's. greatness, keeping them back from just. like living. You know what I mean? Living for themselves. And I and it's. not my job to think about that. But I. will say it's not just a it's not a. one-way street. I'm not sitting up here. being the victim and being like I had to. do this for me. It's like no man, it's. mutual. There's somebody out there whose. story is like yeah, I had if I had to. let go and now I'm flowing and things. are coming to me that are meant for me. You know, I'm not just holding on to. this situation that's starting to whoop.

my ass. You know, I'm aware of that. Yeah. So it sounds like this was the headspace. from which the music was created. Absolutely. of this. Yeah. I was so angry. I was. like so like I was so angry from like. October to January of I just have a lot. of angry songs and I was like get it. out. Talk your I had some songs that. were very like that are very dark, you. know, and they're and I left them on the. album cuz I was like I just think that. people deserve to know and like it's.

songs about loss. Like I lost my dog. Puca, 20 years, you know, she was like a. grandma to me, you know, and that was. really hard. I wrote a song for her and. I have like songs about like just. friendships that ended that really hurt. me. and I was like leave it, you know, I had. this one song I wrote and like I hadn't. slept in like 48 hours and it was like. during one of the worst like mental. breakdowns I've ever had in my life like. I had the studio scheduled the next day.

and I hadn't slept and I was like. tear-stained face and like musty. clothes. I was like I'm going to go to. studio. I'm going to go and I went and I wrote. this incredible song and I'm like leave. it. Leave it, you know, you you owe yourself. that. You don't always have to write. perfect polished pop hits. You can have. songs about your real experience that. you didn't go in and edit on this album. But then I wrote Love & War Life in like. February and I was like.

huh, I was like this feels good. This. feels familiar and I started to realize. my purpose. My purpose like I said is to. turn this. pain into champagne. and help other people through it. I. can't just sit and be sad for for 12, 15. songs. I got to give people something to. step to, something to march to, something to perk themselves back up. I. didn't do it because I forced myself to. I did it cuz that was just the place I.

was at now. I had written so many sad. songs, so many mad songs, so so wrong. songs that like I could finally focus on. what's right and what feeds my soul. And. so some of those songs made it onto the. album, some of them didn't. Some of them. were just. of them didn't. A lot of them I'm like, "Uh-uh, like you'll never hear this one.". Never hear the light of day. But you. still had to make it to let go of that. emotion, that feeling. There was a part. of it that allowed you to shed certain. things you were carrying. And that's one. thing I will tell any artist, it's like.

make the song. It's not like once you record it, it's. going to go on the radio tomorrow. It's. not going to be on DSPs at midnight. Write the song, say the lyrics, say the. weird thing. People desperately want to. hear the weird thing, and then write another song. And if you You know what I'm saying? Like that's part of the. How do I describe this? I always say. like there's some sort of stream of.

creation going always, and ideas like. are coming out like fish. It's so wild, and so you're always kind of like when. you when you sit down and cast your net. to create, whether it's painting, whether it's writing, whether it's. music, whatever, dance, you cast that. line, and whatever that fish is, you. catch that fish, you pull it out, and that's it. You got to pull the fish. out. You can't be like, "Well, I caught. the fish, but. I can't say that." Or I caught the fish, but I don't like this genre of music. I.

can't make a. a classical twerk song. Yes, you can. Make the classical twerk song, pull the. fish out, and go fishing again. Cast. your line again. You know what I'm. saying? What do they say? It's full of. plenty of fish in the sea. Yeah. I love what you said about how. creativity is a stream, and that's where. the word stream is actually so. beautiful, because you're right that. we're all pulling from the universe. moments of creativity and mixed with our. experience. It's almost like one layer.

is the stream of creativity in the. universe, and the other is the. experience of real life of what we're. going through and great art is made when. those two things are moving in parallel. and you're able to like connect the dots. between the two. And and it seems like. that's what you've been trying to stream. and channel and and put it together. What how has your view on love changed. through this process? Like when you look. at the word love now. I'm such a better lover now. I worked. really hard and I can't remember it was. like 2017.

I was really. deep in it and I had like candles and I. was reading books and I was trying to. understand. what it means to be an unconditional. lover because love with conditions hurt. really bad. Really bad and I was like, "Please, I. want to learn how to be an unconditional. lover." And um. once I had all the crystals and all the. candles and all the prayer and all the. reading I and I was like, "I get it. I.

get unconditional love." I realized that. like. actually. as a human being I'm incapable of. unconditional. We are. I think on a spirit level. vibrationally we are unconditional love. And I think that is why it's hard to try. to be an unconditional lover cuz it's. not something that you can actively do. You just are. Mhm. But when you tap back into your. flesh, that's when the conditions come. right back in. Mhm.

And. I found that when I choose to love and. flow, that is the most unconditional. part. When I love on a material level, that's when the conditions start to come. in and it gets painful and it gets petty. and it gets weird. But every time I. forget because we're going to forget. We. are human beings. We step back into the. flesh every morning when we wake up. I. have to go back to the flow and I remind. myself. I'm like, "Well, how would you feel if they did. that to you? You know? How would you.

What What would you think?". And I go, "Oh." And I empathize and I. understand and it's so much easier for. me now to accept cuz I think love is. acceptance. You know what I mean? Like I. love Like my One of my favorite phrases. to tell myself and others is like, "I. love and accept you for who you are.". Mhm. "I love and accept you for who you. are." And sometimes when people piss me. off, I go, "I love and accept them for. who they are." I love and accept them. I have to remind myself that I do on a. on a very soul level, on a vibrational. level, I love them and accept them for.

who they are. Mhm. Once I get into the material love. and ah, you up my day or why. would you say that to me or why Why. would you do this to me? It starts to. get real. conditional and painful and pain body. and hateful and drama and mess. I don't. want no drama and I don't want no mess. I really don't anymore. And honestly, I. was addicted to it for a long time. Oh. my god, I love reality TV. I loved. hearing gossip about other I would be. like, "Oh my gosh, so what's the tea? What happened? But what happened? Oh my.

god." Like I was very spunky. You know. what I mean? And I realized, "Oh, that's. like a You know, I I see something. online." I'm like, "Ooh." I go down the. rabbit hole. I'm like, "But what. happened? I want to know the drama." And. it's like, "Girl, that is lowering your vibration." And. like I hate to even say lowering. vibration cuz people going to think it's. woo-woo. It's like I'm literally. lowering my waking state by doing that. You're lowering yourself. And then you. start to attract drama. Oh my god, when.

you inject When you You are what you. eat. When you eat drama, you attract. drama. So well said. I was so addicted to it. and I think like now I'm a better lover. and what I understand about love is love. is like there's no drama. It's like calm. water. Mhm. It's like peaceful water. because love is a flow state. Yeah. You're at your best. You're you love at. your best when you're just flowing. Don't try to understand it. Don't try to. make it make sense and don't try to like.

find problems with it. Just like love. them. Mhm. You know, and and be loved. Yeah, I love. that flesh to flow. That's really good. And because it's. it's. it's so good. I I I love what you're. saying because. I I think about this often where we're. like we're all like be kinder to. everyone. And then the next thing you. need is someone's comment section which. is like why does her voice sound like. that? What's up with her head today? Like what's up with his, you know, and. I'm like, wait a minute, didn't we all. just say we needed to be kinder to us.

each other and kinder to ourselves? We'll be like, oh no, mental health is. the most important thing in society. right now. You look at a comment. section, all of a sudden someone's. mental health is being absolutely. destroyed for things they can't even. control. Mhm. Things that you don't even know why. their voice sounds like that or why. their weight's like that or why their. health's like that. Like you just have. no context. And it's so fascinating to. me that you see this complete quarrel. and hypocrisy of constant like just. everything we're saying, we're finding. it hard to live. Like it's hard to see.

in real life. Like like what you just. said. Like we all love reading about. gossip about someone else's life, someone else's dating scenario. But then if your friends are gossiping. about your life, you're like, can you. believe it? They're spreading rumors. about me. And it's so interesting, right? It's like it's And I think about. it all the time cuz as soon as you think. you're free of it, if you're like, oh. no, I I never gossip about anyone or. whatever, you just got to take a beat. and take a look at how you spoke about. someone yesterday. And so we're cons-. like you said, we're all human. We're constantly trying to propagate and.

preach the right thing to do. Mhm. But. we're all struggling in reality with. actually doing it when it's hard. We are. as kind to others as we are to. ourselves. I'm learning that. I'm. learning the people who say the meanest. things to me and about me. are going through it. They're. struggling, too. How are you going to be. How are you going to be nice to me and. say something nice about me when you. talk down about yourself? And And I. don't even mean like people who have low. self-esteem. I'm talking like, "Ugh, stupid. Why did I do that? I'm so.

stupid." Or like, "Ugh, I look bad. Like, I don't like how I look." Like, "Ugh, I hate myself." Like, it's little. things like that that you say over and. over and over and over and your body's. like, "Bet." You know? And that's why. I'm so I I Man, I'm telling you, self-love can save. the world. Because you have it it cuz it. starts with you. Self-love can can make. this world a better loving place. Cuz. when you're kind You notice the people. who are kind to themselves and and love. themselves, they're they just You're. like, "Ooh, I like being around. You're.

so kind. You're so nice. Like, you're so. Why are you so nice to me?" It's like, "Cuz I Cuz I'm nice to me.". Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's real. But when I'm hard on. myself and when I'm striving for. perfection and when I'm beating myself. up and when I'm doing the most, I can't control. Mhm. how I treat other people or how I. look at other people or what I think. about other people. When I was in When. I'm in the trenches. the trenches, I'm I'm The trenches are. surrounding me. Now that I'm kinder to. myself, and that doesn't even mean like,

"Ooh, I put on lotion every day and. self-care." I mean like, man, like the. way I look at the world, the way I view. the world, the way I view myself through. the lens of the world is kinder. You. know what I'm saying? And I think if. everyone if everyone was a little kinder. to themselves, I think we'd have less. and less of the negativity in the world. I agree. I I I think that's a beautiful. way to put it. It's that projection of. our own insecurity and pain and the. conversation that's happening in our. mind is is going outward as well. And I. feel like it's harder, like we were.

talking about earlier, when you mean. something to people, because I feel like. when you then change, people feel like. they're losing a friend. Mhm. Right? It's like when you. transform, then people feel like, "Oh, but you used. to the girl that watched the reality TV. and talked about it, and now you don't. Like, I'm losing you." "Oh, you used to. be the person who who didn't do that and. didn't do that, and now you are. Like, I. feel like I'm losing you." Have you ever. felt that way before? Like, as you're. transforming, as you're growing, as. you're becoming the person you want to. be, that people can often also feel like.

you're leaving them behind. People feel. like they're grieving a friend. Yes. Yes. I would say we can talk about my. personal life because. on a personal level, I do feel like. there's just people who like. our relationship just grew apart because. we just don't even relate on the same. things anymore, you know? I know a lot. of people be like, "Oh, I grew out of. that." It's like, it's not really you. grew out of it. You just grew apart from. it. It's just And that's fine. But, I. would say on like a my public.

relationship, I'm I'm very careful. about what's happening with me right. now. Like, I have been on an intentional. weight release journey. And I put it on the internet. I I posted. about it like maybe a year and a half. ago. And I was like very clear that this. time it's intentional. I've always been. very like. work athletic online. I work out, you. know, I'm always like, you know, eating. and showing how I eat and like always. trying to like eat healthy. And I.

remember once I started becoming famous. like 2018, 2019, I was And I was like a. big girl, and I was like, "It's going to. be on me to show the world that big. girls can also be healthy. Big girls can. also have stamina. Big girls can also be. loved. Big girls can also be sexy. Etc., etc." All the things that I. you know, stood for. And I told people that I was going on an. intentional weight release journey. because I wanted to be transparent in. that way. Because I do feel like I have.

a relationship with the public where. it's like I am their friend, and it is. relatable. You know what I mean? It is. relatable to struggle with your body. So, I put it out there. And I think over. the last few over the last like year and. a half as I've been doing it, my body. has been changing very slowly. But I. don't think people were paying. attention. I would show different things. like oh, I showed my workouts or I'd. show like what I eat in a day or I would. say I started off the year by being like. hey, new year new me trends don't have.

to be toxic. Please be careful when. you're posting about your January. fitness goals cuz it can be very fat. phobic. Like I'm I was still very. like anti-fat phobia on this entire. journey. But I think that you know, we. got to remember everybody not seeing. your all the time. Everybody not. seeing every video you post. Everybody's. not privy to what you're going through. They're not with you every day. So, when. I pop out on a red carpet or when a. video suddenly goes viral and my body's. different, it appears like it was. overnight. It appears sudden. And I.

think that was shocking to a lot of. people because now the headline is Lizzo. skinny. Which is a far cry from the truth. because I'm not. I'm not and even in my original video, I. was like when I reach my weight release. goal, I'm not going to be considered thin by. any means, by any metric, by any BMI. I. will still get. trolled and talked about and the fat. jokes will still be there, but I'll be. happy. And I said that because I meant.

it. And here I am. And I was like how did y'all how are. y'all got. how are where's the the disconnect? But. I think the disconnect is communication. Yeah, yeah, that's such a good point. I've been so transparent. So, if anyone. wanted to look at my paper trail, it's. there. But I also know that they're not. going to and my responsibility as. someone who has this relationship with. the public and they have it with me is. to continue. I'm not going to stop and. get defensive and be like got I did for.

a second. I was like I'm not skinny. Why. are y'all saying that?" You know, and. that kind of baffled me because it's. just like, if y'all knew knew how much I. weighed, if y'all knew what my body. really looked like. And I was like, "Oh, just show them what your body looks. like. Just be real about it. Just be. real about the body dysmorphia that. you're experiencing. That you know, now. that you have released some weight. that's kind of new to you. Like, you. know, that is also like it's strangely. inverse. Like, show them just show them. your journey more. Just continue to do.

it. Instead of being angry and defensive. about it. Be real about it because. that's what your friend loves about you. And that's what you love about your. friend that you can be real. Yeah. You know, I'm still in it because this. is all very new. Like, I think it's now. just starting to be like a point of. conversation and and discourse. And I. think my responsibility with that is to. make sure that it's still it's still me. No, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. the way you explained that. I love First. of all, I I really appreciate the. empathy that you have in the fact that.

everyone's not seeing everything. Mhm. So, it feels like overnight. It feels. like a shock. And the fact that you even. have the foresight to even think through. that shows just how aware you are. But. at the same time, I really appreciate. how you're using the word weight release. and not loss. Yeah. And talk to us about. that cuz I think that's really. important. It's such a interesting. reframe and such an important reframe. Because the weight that is no longer on. me is not just fat or physical. I. released so much. to get to this point. And I think people.

can see that. And I don't want to. describe anything as loss. You know, I. don't want to I'm not I'm not. experiencing any loss. I've actually. gained so much. I've gained like. a sense of self. I gained like a. lifestyle that I actually really love. And I'm like, I can maintain this, you. know. I've gained new perspectives on. like nutrition and and and the science. behind cardio or weightlifting. Like, it. it's exciting to me. That's that Virgo. moon. I'm like, "Ooh, this is.

interesting. I love science." But yeah, I just think that like. people aren't going to understand this. right now, but. it's the most body-positive way to. experience what I'm going through. I don't want to use any negative terms. Weight loss is like, "Girl, I lost. weight." And it's so funny because my. my man, he he's so funny. Like he was. the one who kind of like brought it to. my attention first. Cuz I first I was. like, I was like, "Oh my gosh, I lost 5 lb.". He was like, "Where did it go?".

I was like, "What?" And I was mad at. him. I was like, "Why would he say. that?" But he's like, "Where did it go?". You know, I was like, "Oh, interesting." You know, it's like, "I don't think I want to lose anything. I think I want to win. I think I want to. gain.". Yeah. And I think that like. I want to be very intentional with the. words that come out of my mouth because. there's young people who are watching me. and they're experiencing, you know, what I'm putting into the. world and they're applying it to their. own experience and their own life just. like I did when I was a kid. You know, I.

saw how the media treated people who. gained and. lost weight and how. that affected my brain chemistry and how. it made me I'm still not perfect. Like, you know, I'll still mess up when I'm. talking about things or I'll still. I have some toxic, you know, diet. culture things that come in my brain. I. just swat it away like a fly. I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, we're not. doing that. We're not doing that." You. know what I mean? Like, this is your. body. You only get one of these. Enjoy. her and let her enjoy you. So, I just.

want to be very careful with my words. and intentional. Yeah. And it's not for. me. Cuz if if this was all for me, you. know, I take this being a being a public. figure very by heart. But if we were. sitting alone and we were drinking. tequila, I'd be like, "Well, but it's like no, like. be careful with your words because it. could affect somebody in ways you don't. even know. Even me releasing the weight. has affected people and I take that. seriously. I take that responsibility. and so because of that I want to. transmute it into something that makes. those people feel comfortable. Mhm. You.

know, and feel like okay less less. afraid of it. You know what I mean? And. and understand it more. Lizzo, it has. been an absolute joy talking to you. today. You are like you're easy to talk. to. You're so much fun. I can tell that. you've sat with everything you're saying. for so long. Yeah. When I'm listening to. you, I can hear the reflection in your. voice. I can hear the like Yeah. the. weight in what you're saying for. yourself and for others and I really. respect that because that's actually the.

hardest part. The hardest part is. sitting in. no man's land or no person's land and. just. figuring it out and I can tell that. you've spent so much time there Yeah. reflecting, doing the inner work, pushing, healing, questioning, taking. responsibility, doing the shadow work. Like that's. that's hard and I just want to. acknowledge that because I I see you for. that. I I feel it in your words. I I. hear it. It's very evident to me that. you're someone who's really working on.

that and that is the hardest work on the. planet to do on an individual level. Like don't nobody want to sit around. thinking about how they up. Yeah. You know, cuz then you'll just beat. yourself up. But I did it anyways and I. was like, I'm going to beat myself up. until I end up becoming the best version. of myself. And it was really hard and I only share. it because I know that someone else. might be going through it. Like go through it. Don't try to like.

stop the journey. You know, you do have. to sit and reflect. You do have a You. are You are the only person in control. of you. You know what I mean? And you. have to take responsibility for that and. I think that like it feels good cuz then. no No else can control your story. No. one else can control your joy. I am the. author of my story. I love that. We end. every episode with a final five. These. questions have to be answered in one. word to one sentence maximum each. So,

Lizzo, these are your final five. bad at this, by the way. Okay. The first. question is, what is the best advice. you've ever heard or received? Know who you are and whose you are. Ooh, I love that. I've never heard that. before. That's beautiful. All right. Uh. question number two, what is the worst. advice you've ever heard or received? You cash out. Who said that to you? Uh me.

You said it to yourself? Oh my god, that's funny. That's funny. Uh question number three, this new music, this new album, what is. this chapter of your life called? Freedom. Mhm. I feel very free. Mhm. Mhm. And that's what people feel when they. listen to Love and Real Life. I sure hope so, cuz that's what I put in. it. That's That's beautiful. Uh question. number four, what's the first thing you. do every morning and the last thing you. do every night? Wow. The first thing I do every morning.

when I open my eyes is I have a wave of. gratitude. It's happened every morning. since January 2020. I've woke up and I. had a wave of gratitude that almost. brings me to tears. I've never cried for. like all of my life and then in 2020 I. just start crying all the time. And then. the last thing I do, I think This is. going to sound like I'm lying. I'm so. corny, but I. and it's only because I have anxiety. I. think about every person and I I like I.

think about my my family. I think about. the family members who aren't here. Think about my dog Pooka, my dad, and I. send I'm so corny. I know this doesn't. sound real. It sounds like I'm only. saying this cuz I talked to you, but I. literally I send like there's like these. weird color points that come out of me. in my mind and I and they always go to a. different person every time. It's like a. different color to a different person. and I think about them. I like I sent. green to my brother and I sent like.

orange to my sister and I sent red to my. man and I sent. violet and white to my father and I sent. blue to my mother and it was just it was. so strange, but I I think about them and. I say, "Oh my gosh, I just pray over. them real quick." I'm like I pray I I. actually don't even pray that they're. okay. I thank God they're okay. I know you said one word, but I I go. thank you. This is a beautiful answer. I'm like, "Thank you for making sure that my. family and all of my loved ones are safe. and healthy." I swear cuz I have to It's. the only way I can go to sleep. Yeah,

that's beautiful. I believe you. I. believe that was very in-depth. Too. specific to make it up. Yeah, it was my. too specific to make it up on the spot. That was amazing. Uh fifth and final question we ask is to. every guest who's ever been on the show. The question is if you could create one. law that everyone in the world had to. follow, what would it be? Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Actually, I just heard about this. I forget the name of the law, but it's if you.

like think about the world. and you're not in it yet and you don't. know how you're going to be born. You. don't know, you know, what color you're going to be. born, what country you're going to be. born in. You don't it's a lottery. How. would you design that world not knowing. how you would be born in it so that. everybody can live happily. And that's how that's how you move. through the world. That is so good. Mhm. I love that. I've never heard that. before. That's it. That's that's the. rule. Design this world, build this.

world, live in this world as if you. don't know what privileges you'll be. owed, you don't know how you are going. to come into it, what cultures you're. going to be a part of, so that everyone. can benefit and everyone can live. happily and freely. How would you design. it? I love that. That is amazing. We've. never had that answer. That is a brilliant, brilliant answer. tea is it's the way God designed it, but. you know, we came in here and we added. our biases. We put our biases up in this. Lizzo, you are so much fun. You are such.

a bright spark and such a brilliant. soul. Like, honestly, your energy is. infectious. And I want to thank you for. trusting me with just being so open, so. vulnerable, so so thoughtful in. everything you shared. And I know that. anyone who listens to this episode is. going to feel inspired in their own. personal journey. Hopefully feel a lot. more closer to you. And I can't wait for. them to listen to this new album. I. cannot wait. And. "Love in Real Life", I hope everyone. goes and listens. And "Still Bad" is. already my favorite. I'm loving it. It's. such a good So, thank you so much for.

being here. So grateful. Genuinely. grateful to have spent this time with. you. Thank you so much. I really. appreciate you. Thank you for the. platform. I don't take any of this for. granted, so thank you. If you loved this episode, you'll really. enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez on. befriending your inner critic and how to. speak to yourself with more compassion. My fears are only going to continue to. show me what I'm capable of. The more. that I face my fears, the more that I. feel I'm gaining strength, I'm gaining.

wisdom, and I just want to keep doing. that.