Jillian Turecki: If They're Not Into You, They're Not For You

Who you decide to partner with is one of. the most important decisions you will. ever make. If someone is not into you, they absolutely are not for you. World-renowned relationship coach, podcast host, and speaker. Jillian Turecki. It's the why me, this is never going to. happen. People then get into this. learned helplessness. This state that I. am in is permanent. No. What are the three biggest mistakes I'm. making in dating right now? Okay, so number one is.

The number one health and wellness. podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one the only Jay Shetty. I always trying to get a sense of what. our audience is worried about and. concerned about and challenged with. And. one of the big things that keeps coming. up is. what are the three biggest mistakes I'm. making in dating right now? Like what am. I getting wrong about dating? That seems. to be the top question. So there's a few things. One is it. shouldn't just be the apps. I don't tell.

people get off the apps. Sometimes I say. get on the apps. But if you just focus on that, that's going to burn you out and it's. going to exhaust you and you're meeting. a bunch of strangers. So that's like another mistake that. people make is that they're impatient. It's not every day that you meet someone. who you want to build a relationship. with. Like it's just not that easy. But you have to get out there. You have. to be proactive. Look, there are people.

who are sitting around on their couch. waiting for like that person to fall. onto the couch next to them and it's not. going to happen that way. So you can either live your life to the. fullest and enjoy your life and trust. that one day organically it may or may. not happen if you put yourself out there. and you. widen your circle. or you actually have to be proactive and. that might mean going on a like dating. like it's your business. Like going on a. bunch of dates every single week with as. low of an expectation as possible cuz.

one of the biggest mistakes that people. make in dating, like I've nothing but. compassion and empathy for this. But you're texting with someone, you're. kind of excited, you feel like there's a. vibe, and then you go out and you're. like, "Uh I don't feel a spark or I'm. not into it." And then there's this. people then get into learned. helplessness. And when they go into. learned helplessness, they're like, you. know, it's the why me, this is never. going to happen, it's this state that I. am in is permanent. Like I will never. find anyone. No, dating is really an opportunity for. you to practice your social skills.

Social skills are things that most. people are not that great at. Honestly, even the people who think that they're. really great at it. It takes a lot to. really talk to someone and not interview. them and actually be curious about them. You know, a lot of people are nervous. So practice breathing and being. comfortable in your body. and getting to know someone and who. knows, maybe you make a friend and maybe. you never want to see that person again. But at least you're practicing. So the. three biggest mistakes is.

just focusing on the apps and not. actually expanding your circle and doing. new things and letting certain things. unfold organically. Number two, impatience. Number three, just sort of. high expectations, but I want to add. another one if I can. Please. People get into these very long, I mean, when I say long, like weeks, texting. exchanges with these people. And it. gives them a false sense of intimacy. Oh, I have this amazing connection. They've never even met the person. And.

then maybe they never meet. Don't do. that. Text a little bit back and forth. like a day and make a date to either. meet meet on FaceTime, Zoom, or in. person. You really should go about it as. if your time is too precious to waste. texting back and forth with a stranger. who. uh may not be available. For a month. Yeah, for a month or more. And then. you're getting all excited I understand. like the thrill of it and it's all it's. exciting, but it's such a waste of time, honestly. You know, meet the person.

As you were speaking, I was thinking. about what's at the root of that for so. many people. And one of the things that. came to me was. this fear of rejection. Yes. So, even the idea of I'm talking to this. person for a month is because I don't. have to potentially face meeting someone. and them never wanting to meet me again. Or the resistance that we have to make. work and dating feel the same. I know so. many people who'll cancel on dates last. minute because they're scared of well,

what if I go and it doesn't work out? Or. and and rejection by the way is two. types of rejection. One type of. rejection is that person doesn't want. me. Mhm. And the other type of rejection is that. person doesn't meet my expectations or. that person I don't want to be with. them. Yes. So, I'm not just saying rejection in. that we're scared of well, what if that. person doesn't like me? We're also. scared of the am I going to reject. another person? And like you said with. the high expectations, what do we do about both of those types.

of our fear of rejection? Because let's. take the the more obvious one to start. with. We all want to be loved. We want. to be liked. We all want the next person. to be the person. Yeah. Chances are that's not going to happen. We know that. Yeah. But still we struggle with the fact that. I'm going to meet someone and they're. going to say, well, you're not right for. me or. you know, I don't don't really want to. see you again. Like how do you get over. that because we talk about it in. entrepreneurship, we talk about it in. life, but when you do it with love, it. seems so personal. It's one thing to be rejected by the.

person you love. It's another thing to. be rejected by a stranger who you don't. know. This is just human nature. We go. on dates even if we're not into the. person. We want them to be into us. Or right? Yes. Or like we find them let's say we find. them attractive, and then we find out, wait, you're not into me, you don't find. me attractive. Yeah, but life really the. quality of our lives is very much. determined by how well we can confront. rejection. Like you're not going to be. for everyone.

And I really believe this with all of my. heart and soul. If someone is not into. you for whatever reason, like let's say. you're in the early dating process, they're not attracted to you, they're. not feeling a spark, whatever it is, they absolutely are not for you. I can. guarantee that. So, it's important to build that. resilience against rejection muscle. First of all, it makes a person more. attractive. Second of all, it's just part of life. And I know that it's like you're putting. yourself out there, but I wish there was.

like a magic pill that I could give. people to just get over it. But you have to become more resilient. when it comes to that. You know, you. can't be hiding behind texts and not. actually meet the person. It sounds. hard, but you have to be stronger than. that. Honestly, you really really do. And and you have to just trust that like. you're not for everyone and not. everyone's for you, and yes, it's. awkward, and maybe we can just all. acknowledge the awkwardness of it all, you know, but you still have to if you. want love and you want a relationship,

you have to go for it. You can't just be. passive. You're looking for one person to fall in. love with you and for you to fall in. love with. Yes. And for that, you're going to have to. meet a lot of people to find that one. person, but all you need is one person. to say yes, one person to say I do, one. person to say I love you. Yeah. And if you're only looking for one. person, just by the nature of odds, you. should know. Yes. that that probably won't be the next. person. So, switching to that, you said.

one thing about kind of going in at the. lowest baseline expectation, which I agree with because then you're. allowing it to become a friendship, you're allowing it to become a. nothingship, you're allowing you're. allowing it to become what it is as. opposed to us walking in and going, "This next person's going to be my wife, my husband, whatever it may be, my. partner.". I think it's so natural for so many of. us. to want to speed up love. Yeah. Like speeding up love seems to be our. addiction and obsession. We just want to.

meet the one. Now that we're dating, I. just want to get married. Now that you. know, it's we're trying to accelerate. love almost. So, how do we slow it down. and how do we take it back to baseline? Number one is there is no the one. There really isn't. I mean, we actually. choose who the one is and this is this. is really really important. Love, as I'm. sure you know, is a choice. Like it's a. feeling for sure, but we're so conditioned to believe that.

love is just a feeling as opposed to a. choice and that when if you do decide to. be with someone long-term, you're going to have to make that choice. many, many times throughout your. relationship, which is I choose you, right? So, people want to rush it and so. what they do and what I've done is that. we lie to ourselves and it's also. because we've been lied by society that. there is in romanticism, that there is. this one person who's going to come into. your life. and rescue you and make your life better.

and that once you find that person, like. everything becomes easier and and I'm. certainly not advocating for people. being in difficult relationships, but the more challenges you've had in. relationships, the less that you've been. modeled what it is to actually really. love someone, the more you are going to. be challenged to overcome and transcend. old things and old patterning to. actually love someone and to do love to. where where it's a verb and not just a.

feeling. So, how do we slow it down and. we just want to rush it? It's about acknowledging that feeling. So, a lot of people they meet, there's chemistry. And I know that this was me. I think if. there's chemistry, then this is it, as. opposed to, well, maybe in the past. there's been chemistry and I haven't had. chemistry with the right people. So, maybe I need to slow down a little bit. and sort of process my enthusiasm. And. it's not about I don't want anyone to I. don't want to rain on anyone's parade. Like, all that stuff is really fun in.

the beginning. But, you want to just. say, okay, hold on. What am I feeling. right now? This feels really good. This. is really exciting. But, I need to slow. down because I actually need to uncover. this person's character. I need to. uncover their values. I perhaps need to. get a little bit clearer on what it is. that I need, what it is that I value, and what it is that I really, really. want. Not just my preference, but what. do I need in order to function in a. relationship? Do I have some.

understanding of myself? You know, it's. difficult. Women childbearing age, societal pressures, get married. I. understand I've nothing but compassion. for that. The more that I can stress. that who you decide to partner with. is one of the most important decisions. you will ever make in your entire life. And we are meant to kind of get it. wrong, and some of us get it wrong for a. longer time than others, right? But, it.

is the most important decision. So, if. you're going to rush that, you're really, truly doing yourself a. disservice, and you have to get. comfortable with the fact that yes, you're scared. You're scared to be. alone. You're scared to not be loved. You don't want to be in the dating. world. I get all of that. Be mindful of it. You know, connect to. that within yourself, and remind. yourself always that who you decide to. spend your life with might be one of the. most important decisions, if not the. most important decision, because there's.

no one in your life who's going to have. a bigger impact on your overall. well-being and emotional state than the. person who you choose to spend your life. with. So, you've got to take that. decision very seriously and not rush it. I've often said to friends, there's the pain of being single. and there's the pain of being in the. wrong relationship. Yes. And the pain of being single is a lot. better than the pain of being in the. wrong relationship. Agree 100%.

Agree 100%. so hard when you're dating someone. and you've got enmeshed into each. other's lives. There's the toxicity, there's complexity, there's as you said. earlier, there's a disconnect in your. values, Yes. the person's character. You think you. just discovered it, but actually they. showed it all along and you didn't see. the signs. And now you're thinking, "Gosh, I was. happier when I was single.". Yeah. And you can't see that when you're. single because the promise of being in a. relationship is so alluring and.

intoxicating that we feel like I must. have that now. Yes. And. many of those people. might think, "Yes, it's easier when I'm. single." But they're actually afraid to. go back to it and that's why they stay. in these relationships because. we fear the unknown. One of the biggest problems in. relationships is that if someone's into. us, we see it as their weakness. And if. someone's not into us, we see it as. their strength.

You're never going to raise your. self-esteem by being too precious with. yourself. You have to be willing to be. brave and to look at the hard things, but also at the same time acknowledge. how strong you are. It takes a. tremendous amount of resilience just to. be a human being. Why is it that. we end up being attracted to people that. are not into us and then people who are. into us, we're not into them. Why does. that happen? I'm going to give you some theories. and they're theories shared by many. But. one thing that I say is that if anyone.

truly understood 100% the answer to. that, they would win the Nobel Peace. Prize. Right? Cuz everyone has these theories. and they're good theories and they're. rooted in psychology. I really want to. put out there that no one truly has the. answer to that, but there's some really. good theories. So, one theory, when someone is not paying. as much attention to us, that could trigger attraction and one of. the reasons is well, maybe they are like.

maybe there's something really special. about them. And so we put them on a. pedestal and where we are on the. spectrum of our self-esteem impacts that. greatly. So, if we are on the lower end. of self-esteem, then we are going to. meet people often and think that they. are better than us. If our self-esteem. is on the healthy level, then we kind of. are like, well, I'm not better than. anyone else and no one's really better. than me. We are all one, right? And then. there of course there's the grandiosity.

which is they think everyone is sort of. below them in some way. But the people. who I work with and most of the problems. and I think the people who probably. write in to you, there's more of a lower. self-esteem issue happening where they. put someone up on a pedestal. and they project unconsciously their. ideal partner onto this person. Maybe. this person looks exactly like a. childhood crush. or like, you know, the actor who they. were always in love with. Or maybe there. is just something about them and their.

vibe that they're like, this is the. person that I want and and or maybe it's. their job. The things on the surface, people will then think, I must get this. person because if I get this person, then I'm actually getting everything. that I've ever wanted in a partner on. the surface. If I get this person, I'm. validated. I'm I'm to have a good life. right? So, it's all an illusion. It. truly is all an illusion. Then there's like the deeper childhood. wounds of.

my father was very rejecting. I'm I'm. putting this in the context just because. I'm a woman who dates men, so I'm just. thinking more, but it could be, you. know, obviously, whoever you date. But. if one of your parents was rejecting of. you, and that's all you ever knew, and. so you never really felt good enough. So, actually, in dating and in love your. sort of like center of gravity. psychologically is I work really hard to. earn love as opposed to understanding or. being used to No, like all I have to do.

is be myself, and the right person is. going to fall madly in love with me, right? You know, be myself with a little. dosage of like also let me check myself, right? So, people are used to that. They're used to the rejection, and they. And then again, the lower self-esteem. If they're not into me, challenge. accepted. So, other people are just like. there's a competitive edge. I'm going to be like. I'm going to change this person, or I'm. going to be the inspiration for their. change, or I'm going to make them notice.

me. There's just a conglomerate of. influences around that. Why are they not attracted to the person. who's actually into them? Again, a lot of theories, and I think. they're good ones. Fear of intimacy. You know, if And this is all. unconscious. If I'm into the person. who's into me, then we actually have to. be in a relationship, and then I. actually have to be vulnerable, and then. I actually have to be emotionally. available, and then we're going to build. this thing, and like ooh, that's icky. and scary. What's easier for me is to go.

for the person who's completely. emotionally unavailable, who's actually. not that into me, and may not even be. that nice to me, but they're hot, and. there's something about them, and I. really want to have sex with them, and. I'm just going to use that as sort of. like an in. There's some deeper healing. needs to go on there. Like that might. require therapy, that might require. looking into your family of origin and. trying to understand that. There could. be like for a woman who's dating a man, you know, maybe she has a. a very misguided understanding of what.

it is for a man to be masculine. Right? So a woman typically is looking. for lots of different things. But a lot. of women who date men are looking for a. man where she wants to feel safe. She. wants to feel safe and she wants to feel. seen, she wants to feel understood. Maybe she's looking for some. providership and maybe that has nothing. to do with money but just has to do with. energy and vibe, right? And so then. she'll. look to the man who may on the outside. seem strong. Maybe he's tough, you know,

maybe his physique is big and strong. Maybe he's got a little bit of like that. dark edge. So she reads it as, "Oh, he's. going to protect me. There's something. masculine and sexy about him." But on. the inside, he's broken. He has no idea. how to love cuz he doesn't know how to. love himself. He's not safe. He's. actually very unsafe, even if not. physically, he's going to be unsafe. emotionally. And so there's a maturity that needs to. happen to understand that like your.

type, you have to get under the hood of. the car a little bit more and understand. like if you're looking for those. qualities in a person, and I'm just. using this as an example, then really. what's actually going to be safe is. someone with strong character, someone. with presence, someone who has a sense. of self. who can actually feel safe in his or her. her own body. And when they can feel. safe in their body, they can actually. provide safety for you in the. relationship and that you also have to. understand how to make yourself safe. So. there's a lot going on. I hope I'm not. saying too much, but yeah, but so.

there's a maturity level here, there's. misguided understanding of what it is. for someone to truly be embodied and. safe and valued. And then there's also. childhood wound wounding. And they And. it could could be all part of it. I'm hoping that for any for everyone. who's listening and watching, those. theories give you an insight. Yes. into how they increase your awareness. about yourself and about the person. opposite the table that you're dating or. that you're seeing. And one of the. biggest problems in relationships is. that if someone's into us, we see it as.

their weakness. And if someone's not. into us, we see it as their strength. And it goes back to where you start this. book is that it all begins with you. Yes. Because all of that is made up in our. minds. Because we're saying, "Oh, well, if you're into me, then that means you. must be weak because you're into me.". Yes. "If you're not into me, then that means. you must be really special and important. because you're not into me." And so. again, it comes back to us. And so. when you say it begins with you,

how do we learn to acknowledge our. strengths and accept our weaknesses? How. do we learn to build our self-esteem at. the same time as have self-awareness? Yeah. of our shortcomings. What does that look. like? So it's difficult because when you're. dealing with cuz what you just said, like, "If you're into me, then you must. be weak." "But if you're not into me, then you must be strong." That's all. through the filter of low self-esteem. and low self-worth. It's like,

"What's wrong with you that you are. actually into me?" It's not just about. accountability. It's like, "Can you see. how incredibly powerful you are? That you can be the change that you want. to see in your life." This isn't about. like, "Oh, you're the problem." It's. really rarely that it's one person who's. the problem in a relational dynamic. Yes, it does exist for very extreme. cases. And I'm never going to say that.

it's 50/50. You know, it really could be. someone who's 70% of the quote-unquote. problem and someone who's 30%. But if you can see that your. relationship or your life is really the. product of the choices that you make. and that it's not your fault if you. didn't learn. Like we're all trying to. figure out what it really truly means to. love someone. Philosophers have been. talking about this for centuries, trying. to understand what love is or is not.

And especially if you were raised in a. family where like your parents really. kind of didn't love each other. You. know, maybe they said they loved each. other, but their actions would speak. otherwise. So we're all really trying to. do the best that we can do with the. tools that we have. And really this book. is just about giving tools. So how do. you build self-awareness and also have. the self-esteem? You're never going to. raise your self-esteem by being too. precious with yourself. You have to be. willing to be brave and to look at the. hard things, but also at the same time.

acknowledge how strong you are. Like let's just start with that. Like. all the miles that you walked, all the. things that you've had to overcome, all. the struggles, all the late nights that. maybe you've had of being really anxious. and yet you still managed to go to sleep. and get up the next morning and get. ready for work or get your kids ready. It takes a tremendous amount of. resilience just to be a human being. So. just acknowledge that. And at the same time get really curious.

We are very complex, weird creatures, you know? Like we're all so nuanced and. quirky. Don't think that you're so. unique in your problems. Like you are not these these things that. you worry about, millions of people are. having the same worry at the same time. That's actually not what makes you. unique. Your problems don't make you. unique. The other beautiful things about. you are actually what make you unique. Yeah, the healing happens when you can. acknowledge.

the ways in which maybe you've been. standing your own way and contributing. to whatever it is that you don't want to. have in life. What's your take on the mindset that a. lot of people can naturally, again, I. empathize with it, too, can get stuck. into, which is like, there's no good men. left. Yeah. Or this idea that all the good men are. either taken or, yeah. Or they don't exist anymore or they're. emotionally unavailable. happens when you've got into that place? And let's say. it's been a valid experience you've had. Like, the last.

three guys you were talking to ghosted. you. Yeah. Right? Maybe there was someone who you. actually started dating, you were seeing. them, and then you asked them an. important question to you or shared. something vulnerably, and now that. person cut you out. So, what do we do. with the mindset? Because it could be. valid or it could be something you came. up with, but either way, what do we do. with that? I've worked with hundreds of couples. I. work with people at all stages of their. relationship life. But a lot of singles. are kind of like, you know, kind of the. loudest cuz they want love, and I. understand that. And so, I The first. thing I work on is their mindset and.

their belief system. And so, yes, all. the good ones are taken. And yeah, I. want to validate everyone if who've had. really hard experiences. So, I'm going. to tell a story, if that's okay. So, I was out for dinner recently with. some friends, one man and two women, and we were in New York City. I really. care about this girl, like, you know, she helps me out, and I'm just like, I. want to get you I want to get you a. partner. Like, what like, what's going. on? I wanted to sort of like understand. what was going on with her. I said, "Well, what is it? Like, what do you. what is it that you believe about men?". She's like, "Well, I just think all men.

really just want one thing, sex.". I was like, "Wow, interesting. I don't really think that's true." And. then, our guy friend who was there was. like, "That's really not true." But she. has this core belief, and it's. reinforced because she's gone on dates. with men, and they've sort of not really valued. getting to know her, and have made. advances that were really inappropriate. But guess what?

She gives them a second date. And then she gives them a second date. and then it's even more reinforced. Mhm. And I said to her, and she wanted me to. be really brutally honest with her. I. said, "First of all, that's actually not. true. Sure, it's true for some, but it's. actually not true. There are actually. men out there who will be very attracted. to you in a way that they want to know. more about you. Like they're drawn to you. They're. magnetized to you. Yes, it's attraction.

in the beginning, it's lust, but they. want to know they want to know you. And they want a relationship. There's. millions of men, single men, who want. love and want a relationship. But you're. choosing the ones. who kind of suck. And who just want that from you, and you. are actually rewarding their behavior by. giving them another date. So you're part of the problem. These men. are getting rewarded because they're. getting some smart, intelligent,

beautiful woman. they're getting a second date after they. are treating you like they could care. less about you. So you are actually. training these men to do more of what. they already do. Instead of being like, "Yeah, I'm not. interested." and absolutely never seeing. them again, and deciding to be a little. bit higher with your standard and a. little bit stricter with your sort of. boundaries about who you decide to date. I think that's actually a really good.

example of how someone can get really. fixated on a belief, and your beliefs. are what create your mindset. Mhm. Then your reality becomes a reflection. of your belief system, and yet you don't. even realize the things that you're. doing to reinforce it, hence it begins. with you. Mhm. And so having this conversation, and. also having like a really good looking. partnered man at the table. When I say. good looking, I mean on the inside, on. the outside, like you know, a great.

catch saying, "Absolutely, that's not. true." And then me pointing out her sort. of pattern in all that. We were able to. kind of chip away at a belief that was. actually the belief. that's keeping her single. Yes. Yeah. It's a combination of things of. challenging yourself. Like, is that. really true? Where did I adopt that? How. am I reinforcing that? Could it be true. that I've had some a couple of bad. experiences, but sometimes that's the.

way the cookie crumbles and that doesn't. necessarily mean that it's everyone. Well, I think until we do that, we also. keep repeating who we're attracted to as. well. Yes, so you have to change your type. Yeah, so often we're attracting and. attracted to the same person and. therefore we keep having the same result. and keep having the same experience of. all men just want one thing, all men are. X, Y, Z or whatever women or men are or. any partner. We start creating a mindset. that's very.

embroiled in one particular type, but. that's because we do keep going after. the same type. So, you keep going for maybe the guy you. think is really smart, looks a certain. way, has a certain job or she looks a. certain way or whatever and you're so. attached to that that you keep getting. the same thing as opposed to the mindset. shift has to be, yes, listen, chemistry. is important. You got to be attracted to. a person if you want to sleep with them. But, you want to also train yourself to. be drawn to certain qualities, like. someone's character and give people who.

you were like, "Oh, you know, there's. something kind of interesting about. them. I don't know if I feel an. immediate spark." Screw the immediate. spark. Let's see if you're actually like. who you are and when you're with this. person. And I'm not saying endless. amount of time. You can't force. chemistry, but it can sometimes turn on. like a light switch after three or four. dates if when you get home from the. date, you're like I had a good time. Mhm. But I'm not quite sure if I feel the. spark. They're not really my type. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That whole.

chatter. If you fundamentally think that. your partner needs to completely change. who they are, you're not with the right. person. You don't just have the hard. conversations for you or for your. partner. You do it in service of love. You do it in service of the. relationship. We're doing it in service. of something greater than ourselves. And. in a relationship, your relationship has. to be the thing that's greater than than. the two of you. Love always starts with you. Your story. is one of a kind, and Pandora jewelry. helps you celebrate it in the most.

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the right fit, you can switch anytime at. no extra cost. Discover your. relationship green flags with. BetterHelp. Visit. betterhelp.com/jaystop3. to get 10% off your first month. That's. betterhelp.com/jaystop3. It's so interesting because we talk. about the spark and chemistry so much. and it feels like we've got to talk. about it for so many more years now to. undo all the work that all the movies.

and that we grew up on did because. I was thinking about this recently and. and I talked about it in my book, which. was this idea of today the word going. around is someone's aura or their. charisma and this idea and I'm like. I promise you if you see someone's aura. and you're attracted to it, so is. everyone else in the room. Totally. And so you're not special and you don't. have a special inclination towards that. person. And chances are that that aura. doesn't make them a good partner. Yes. And so you might be attracted when you. walk in and you hear someone speak and.

you're like, "Wow, they're so. intelligent. They're amazing speaker.". That's not their character. No. You walk in and you see someone and. they're dressed really well and they've. got all this swag and this charisma, that doesn't mean they're a good partner. and have good character. You see someone. who has an amazing job and makes all. this money and drives a really great. car, that's not their character. It doesn't. make them a good partner. And so it's. almost like everything we're attracted. to about someone isn't what makes them a. good partner and makes them good at a. relationship. You keep saying the word.

character and I agree with you. Conundrum. What is that? Because we're not even. seeing that. It seems like we look at. how people think and we're attracted to. that. We look at how people look and. we're attracted to that. We look at what. people do and achieve and we're. attracted to that and none of that makes. someone a good partner. No. They're completely different things, right? Completely different things. Some of the. most intelligent, charming, witty, beautiful people on the planet are also. the most unhealthy and the ones who will. harm you emotionally. I mean, it really is a cruel joke, isn't.

it? I'm never going to suggest that you date. someone who you're not attracted to. I. do think though and I would really be. curious to hear your thoughts, Jay. Like. I do think that with maturity and maybe. that's age and wisdom and that looks. different for everyone, that you do. start to find other things attractive. Like for me personally, someone who's. like really present with me and like a. good listener, it's not a guarantee. If. you're really present with me and a good. listener, that doesn't mean I'm going to.

be attracted to you. But. if you're not present with me and you're. not a good listener and you're not. interested, that's definitely going to. be a turn off. Mhm. Whereas in the past. I would have felt that in my body. I would have felt that red flag and that. intuition that would have felt off in my. body. But I would have suppressed it. This is. what and I'm saying this about myself. because I represent so many people who. are I know do this too cuz I see it all. the time.

Let me just repress that because I want. to be seductive. I want to lure them in. I want the. validation. I think they're hot. You. know, maybe there's something there. And I think with maturity. it translates as actually no, like. that's actually a really big turn off. When we start to have a clearer sense of. self and I don't believe that anyone is. ever fully whole ever. I think that's I. think that's the journey and I think. that's the biggest lie. It's two whole. people coming together. I mean, if.

that's really the truth, then we're all. screwed, honestly. However, having no. sense of self and no center. is problematic, too. Life isn't binary. It's not black or white, but it's We. live in the gray area. But, I do think. that as we do get a a clearer. understanding of ourselves, meaning. what's important to us, you know, what are the things that we. struggle with, can we. find some sort of self-acceptance even. in the midst of our greatest ambivalence.

towards the things that really we don't. quite like about ourselves, can we start. to actually hold ourselves in high. regard even though we are keenly aware. of our imperfections and the ways in. which perhaps we're difficult? Yeah. Yeah. And to me, that's healing is really. being able to. be familiar with the parts of ourselves. that are good and maybe not so great and. still accept ourselves and see that we. have intrinsic value and that we deserve.

love. And I think that the more that we. get an understanding of how to meet our. needs better, understanding what our. needs are, learning how to stand on our. own two feet emotionally, for some. people that's financially, whatever it. is, then who we are attracted to changes. Mhm. And the things that maybe we used to be. attracted to, we're not so attracted to or like, I. mean, I've definitely in the last couple. years have been like, "Oh my god, like. that is the guy I totally would have.

gone for and like, whoa, but I. know that that is not right for me. So, I kind of I just switch it off.". Yeah. I don't indulge it. It's like I can. actually compartmentalize and be like, "Yes, totally attracted to him, but I. know that that would never be the right. partner for me. So, I don't even They're. just putting this box over here and I. don't pursue that.". Yes. That does not mean that I can't be. attracted to a really good person. It. just means that we can be attracted to.

many different people for many different. reasons, and the more that we heal and. grow, the more we find qualities that. are maybe not so, you know, charm. forward. Yes. Very attractive. I feel one of the challenges from what. I'm hearing from you is that. a lot of us in our 30s are still chasing. our 16-year-old crush. And in 40s. Yes. And so we're wanting a relationship. that we wanted back then, and because it. was never satisfied in our teens or in.

our 20s, we still spend our 30s and 40s. looking for it. So, when we were in our. teens, all we wanted was pleasure, fun, and chemistry. Yes. But now if I actually look at what I. want in my 30s or my 40s, it's peace. Yes. And it's a connection, and it's a sense. of comfort as opposed to the unease of. do we like each other today, do we not. like each other. So, you asked me. earlier or alluded to it. Like, so I'm. I'm very attracted to my wife, but that. isn't what's kept us together.

Right. That would be a very weak reason to stay. with someone because you can be. attracted to many people again and again. and again. The reason why you stay with. someone is because there's peace, there's no drama, we both forgive. quickly, we both move on from things. There's friendship, we deal with. problems in a way that I enjoy. Like, what keeps you together isn't that. So, yes, I'm still attracted to my wife, but. we've been together for 11 years and. married for eight, but that isn't what's. kept us together. Yeah. What I find attractive.

has not necessarily changed. I I still. find the same things attractive as I did. when we first got together, but what I. need for a long-term, long-lasting. relationship is so much more than. chemistry and attraction. I I have a. friend that I was talking to the other. day, and she said she was out on a date, and she got back from the date, and she. usually does this, She messaged me. straight away. And her message just. said, "Jay, he was perfect. He said all. the right things. We have the same. values, great family guy, character. I.

can't believe I don't want to go on a. second date with him.". Did you force her to? I hope you did. Yes, I did. And I was like, "Okay, but I was like, wait a minute, what are. you talking about?" Like, how does that. make any sense? And it was just like. because I was like, "Yes, because of. course your 16-year-old self. wanted this shiny. butterflies and and almost danger, like. excitement. Yes. Correct. And and it wasn't there. And. so, it's so interesting to me about how. we all have to mature and grow up. Yes. To be like, well, what is my 30, 40, 50-year-old self, whatever age you are,

mid-20s, whatever, what do I actually. want right now? What do I need right. now? Yes. And let me not still be stuck in a. 16-year-old mind because we are more. than we think we are. And I've also seen. this for people who explored later on in. life, even friends who, because of their. culture or tradition, came out later on. in their life. They found that their. first few relationships, even though. they were they were 30, 31 years old. when they came out, they were still. dating like a 16- or 18-year-old because. it was their first. Wow. relationship. So, it wasn't a material.

age thing. It was a mental and. relationship age thing. So, if you're. someone who hasn't dated for a long. time, Yeah. your age of relationship is actually. much younger. than than your actual age. That's very well said. And that's very, very true. There are people who are. really um. accustomed to very unhealthy. relationships. A lot of push-pull. dynamics. There's a lot of toxicity. And. often, their physical intimate lives are. the glue is the glue that keeps it.

together. Like, that's the hot part of. the relationship. And that person then might get out of it. and say, "Well, I may not ever have sex like that. again." And I tell them, "No, you. probably actually won't.". But that's okay because if you are at. least attracted to someone. and you feel safe with them, you can explore so much more. You can go. into the depths of your vulnerability. with this person and then create a sex.

life that could be very wonderful with. that person. And that's what you want to. do. For some people, they even say, "You. know what? I just I've deprioritized. that." You know, they've been through so. much crazy in their relationships that. they actually made the decision, it's. not that it's not important, but they've. deprioritized it because they've. associated with so much pain. So, everyone is on a different journey, but. ultimately, the 16-year-old self, like. you just have to just acknowledge that.

person and be like, "No, you're not in. charge because what you want is actually. not good for you.". Absolutely. Yeah. One of your hard. truths that I loved is. truth number five, you must speak up and. tell the truth. Yes. And I was going to ask you. what's the difference between. telling the truth and being worried. about being too honest too early on. because it's almost like. we want to share our truth and we want. to be honest, but we don't want to scare. them away. We don't want to overstep. It's a fine balance and I think it's.

hard for people, like you said earlier, we also want them to like us and So, what does that look like? For me, what I tell people, I think you. should be as direct and honest from the. very beginning and I think that that's. actually very attractive. That is different, however, than sharing. your entire childhood pain to a. stranger. So, that's not the honesty I'm talking. about. Someone has to kind of earn that. information and I don't think it's. appropriate to share everything like. that with a stranger. I think that has.

to go a little bit more slowly. There's. a progression to getting to know. someone. It's like, you know someone, then you're you're getting closer and. then you're sharing a little, then. you're starting to open up and be. vulnerable. You don't have to do that on the first. date. But, in terms of honesty of what. it is that you really want, what it is. that you really need, I think. right from date one. This becomes more complicated in when. you're actually in a relationship. You. know, I spent many few years not really. telling the truth. I've worked with many.

couples where there's a lot of love, but. they weren't telling the truth. Fear of. not being enough, fear of abandonment, fear of rejection. This is where. rejection really is intense when we. already love the person. Fear that we. might disappoint our partner. Mhm. Fear that they will never look at us the. same way. Fear that they will resent all. of that. And these are very real, but. withholding the truth is what becomes. the sickness in the relationship. And I.

always say, you don't just have the hard. conversations for you or for your. partner. You do it in service of love. You do it. in service of the relationship. When two. people in a relationship have the. mindset, since we've been using that. word, have the mindset of I'm going to. protect our relationship. That's the. priority. Sure, you're a priority, I'm a. priority, but what we are building. together, that's our baby. Like, that's. the priority. And so, if it means having.

to have really uncomfortable. conversations, if it means having to say. something instead of going into what's. familiar, which is stuffing it down then. becoming resentful and then hating your. partner for it. It's like, whenever we. have a higher purpose, whenever we're we. we feel like there's something that. we're working towards, we will do what. it takes. We'll climb that mountain, we'll transcend that ego, we'll. transcend our fears because we're doing. it in service of something greater than. ourselves. And in a relationship, your. relationship has to be the thing that's.

greater than than the two of you. That's. the encouragement that I want to have. people to have to tell the truth, because it really sucks when you don't. It's very hurtful. I love that, and I think the challenge. I've seen. with that is. our ego. Going back to something you. mentioned right at the beginning, that. we want the other person to make us feel. important. We want them to know that we. don't need them, but we really do. Like, it becomes about and I don't want to.

just say games, because I think everyone. thinks they don't play games, so I don't. want to use that language, but. But we all do. But we all do, yeah. Like, but this just. this feeling of like I love what you. just said. You said the most important. thing is to protect the relationship, which is beyond both of you. Yes. But most of us can't look beyond. ourselves, and we want the other person. to look beyond themselves, but when they. don't do it, we're like, well, then why. would I do it? And then it becomes this, you know, back and forth. So, if someone. has withheld information or broken trust. in that way,

not being honest because of the fears. you mentioned earlier, which I think. were very well and clearly laid out, how. do you repair that? What does that look. like? Well, it depends on what the withholding. or the lies are about. Sometimes it's. you're withholding a truth of just how. you feel. Mhm. And that's like not as much of a. betrayal to the other as it is to. oneself. Which is I'm not I'm not speaking up. I'm not telling you how this landed in.

my body for me, and how angry I am at. you. Because no one will lie to you more than. you lie to yourself. And so, a big part. of telling the truth begins with telling. the truth to ourselves, because often. times we don't want to look at it. It. it's hard, we suppress it, we don't want. to express it. But how do you repair. from that? Well, it again, it depends. Maybe you. need a third party understanding, you. know, what exactly what were the.

boundaries that were crossed to what. degree, how much can you find compassion. for the person when they were. withholding the truth, how much can you see that it actually. wasn't personal, and that it was just something that they. were doing because they were afraid. You. repair with a lot of listening, a lot of. communication, and possibly with a third. party, but yeah, it's it's not easy. Yeah. And it depends on the degree of again, if if it's actually a betrayal or it's. just hard, but we have to learn to not.

take so many things so personally. Because often times, and I'm not talking. about infidelity and things that are. really detrimental to the sanctity of a. relationship, but often times people are doing that. and. they just were too afraid. It's like, "Well, why didn't you tell me how you. feel? You have to tell me how you feel.". And yes, you kind of do. And you have. every right to feel sort of like a mini. betrayal from that. Like, "How can I How. can I show up for you? How can I be in.

this relationship if you don't tell me. how you feel?" And that's very valid. But if the other person can say, "You're. right. I was afraid. This is what I was afraid. of." And then two people are really. starting to tell the truth. And now. we're really getting into the deep stuff. and getting vulnerable. We also expect the other person now to. change their habit the next day. So, we're waiting for the one therapy. session after which our partner will be. transformed. We're waiting for the one.

coaching session after which our partner. will be the person that they promised to. be. And it almost feels like we're we. just are looking for this moment where. they're going to get it, and the penny's. going to drop, and they're going to be. like this new profound individual. And. that's just not reality. Like, people. are going to change if they want to over. a number of years. Yes. And the key part of that is if they want. to and a number of years. And a number of years. we're. focused on no, they have to change, they. have to change, they have to change.

But it begins with you because there's. something that has to change in you as. well. Because if there's something going. on in the dynamic and you love this. person and it's a good relationship. otherwise, you are contributing in some. way whether you know it or not to them. not feeling comfortable to telling the. truth. Like people come, they come to a. couples counseling, couples therapy, they sit down and inevitably every both. people are thinking fix the other person. so that I can feel okay in this. relationship. When really it's when we. change ourselves, we actually can. influence the relationship and the.

change in the other. Not always, but a. lot of the times we can. If you have the. belief they just need to change and be. fixed and we're going to be okay, you are in for a run for your money. because that's actually not true. Like. maybe they do have to change more than. you, but there are things that you need. to change in this dynamic as well. Yeah, we really convince ourselves. though. We do. That's another lie we tell. ourselves. Yeah, we really convince ourselves it's. a one-way thing and that if they were to. change the entirety of who they were.

and then people say, "Oh, well, you keep. giving them the benefit of the doubt if. you don't do that." And I think that's. the balance that we're trying to strike. is how do you give someone the benefit. of the doubt that it's not personal and. at the same time. hold yourself and them accountable for. change. If you want your partner to change, that's we're getting into sticky. territory. You have to accept your. partner for who they are, but also you can have the expectation. that they want to grow and look, I mean, if we're not growing in a relationship, meaning trying new things together and.

also separately, you know, following our. dreams in some way or you know, even in. our own personal lives, just being. willing to pick up a book or try a new. thing, the relationship's going to get. very boring. I mean, that's really what. we're trying to do in so many ways in a. relationship is how to combat in a. long-term relationship. How do we combat. boredom? And really it starts with. are we. becoming more interesting? Are we. growing? Are we trying new things? You. know, are we Not just are we doing new. things together, but are we doing things.

individually? But if you fundamentally. think that your partner needs to. completely change who they are, you're. not with the right person. But if you can accept them for who they. are, but also want them to evolve and. change certain things about themselves, look, many people will come will have to. come to a moment where they ask. themselves, is this enough? You know, like can I tolerate this? And all I would say is no one is. perfect. Everyone's growth is ultimately. their own business. Their own evolution, their own business. And people grow.

in different ways. But if you want an. apple, then you have to sit under an. apple tree, not sit in like a pear tree. and then expect the apple to come down. Mhm. So you have to know who your partner is. fundamentally and be okay with that. Yes. Yes. Well said. with that? Yeah. Well said. Yeah, no, absolutely. I I. couldn't agree with you more. I think. that. one of the reasons we struggle to accept. people. the way they are is because we've never.

taken an interest in how they became the. way they are. Mhm. We don't actually have context of why. they became this way. Mhm. That question of what happened to you? How did you end up here? And when you. start uncovering all of that, you start. realizing it's so not about you. And. it's all about them. And by the way, the. same is true for you. And how did you. become this way? And how did you expect. all of this to be this way? And so I. feel like that you've talked about this. a few times today. This idea of. curiosity, learning about your partner,

understanding. how they got there. And all of a sudden, when you understand that, you go oh my. gosh, I get it now. And now I understand. how long it would take to unwire or. rewire that as well. Yes. If they want to and if they notice it. As opposed to this idea of well, I snap. my fingers and you should get it. You. should know how I feel immediately. Yes. I agree with you completely. I don't. think there's at least in my. relationship, I learned that. the smarter way to be early on was. respecting.

my partner's values. Mhm. and having her respect mine and not. trying to change our values because we. couldn't. Like I don't think I could. change deeply my core values. core ones now. I I can't and if someone was trying to. change them, I'd find that very. uncomfortable. Of course. And if I was trying to change theirs, I'd find that very uncomfortable. And so I'm with you on the idea of. you've got to accept them the way they. are and if you don't, then that's okay,

too. It's okay to move on and leave. Yes, it is. Or, you know, but but always know that. like, you know, there's no one who's. actually perfect. Yes. You know, that does not exist. And I. think that I do think that people know. that intellectually, Jay, but I don't I. but I still think that a lot of people. expect perfection in others. Mhm. You know, one mistake that that many. people have made is it's okay that I'm. flawed. But unconsciously, I'm looking for this. person who's so perfect who's going to.

actually make up for the deficits that I. have in my in my personality. Mhm. And make up for the deficits that are. actually inside of me. I think we've got so disconnected going. back to it begins with you. It's just. we've got so disconnected from knowing. ourselves and knowing what's right for. us and what's good for us. Yeah. I feel like the amount of people that. are just constantly seeking advice from. anyone and everyone in their life. And not listening to themselves. listening to themselves. And you have one text thread over here.

with like nine girlfriends and then you. have you post it on Instagram and say. I'm dealing with this on my stories just. to your private friends and then you. reach out to your family and your. parents and so like you're talking to. like. 27 non-experts about something in your. life. and no wonder you're confused because. everyone has their own opinion. Someone. saying, "Give them another chance.". Someone saying, "Oh, leave them.". Someone you know, and and you've just. got these You've also got actions to. take without understanding. Yes. And and I wanted to ask you if there is.

no the one, how do you know who to focus. on? How do you know who to. kind of make it work with? Number one, the person who treats you. well. And that doesn't mean I think that, you. know, when we're in a relationship for. long enough, we will unconsciously hurt. each other's feelings. And sometimes we will even the most. mindful of us will will behave or say. something or do something that's not. filled with a lot of mindfulness, you. know, we'll act unconsciously.

But. fundamentally you want the person who. treats you well, who respects you, who. you feel good around, you feel like you. can safely express an opinion, you feel. like you can be yourself with them. That's so important. I think that is. probably one of the most underrated. criteria for. choosing a partner is can you really be. yourself with them? I'm not talking. about be your bad self, your lower self. with them, but can you actually be who.

you are? Are you Do you feel comfortable. in your skin. when you're with this person? Or do you. have to hide. parts of yourself so that they can. accept you? So I think that's the most. important thing. And so someone with. whom you share values, someone with whom. Can you agree on what a life well lived. is? Because you can have There can be a. wonderful connection with someone, but. to them they want to live a nomadic. lifestyle and you're like, "No, no, no, I want to root and have children." Like.

you're it's not going to work. You might. have a great love affair, but you're never going to work. long-term. So agreeing on what a life. well lived is, there's some. compatibility and just in terms of core. values. I think that's incredibly. important because. when in the duration of your. relationship things get really hard, life happens, family members die, maybe illness happens, money, whatever. it is, it's your values. It's not your. sex life, it's your values like as you.

were saying that there's not attraction. or chemistry, it's your values that are. going to really keep you together. And I. think it's, you know, that person who. if you had to be stranded on a desert. island, like that would be the person. you'd want to choose. And that's how you know. And all their. little eccentricities that annoy you and. like maybe they're not as neat in the. kitchen as you would like or maybe. they're not exactly the height or, you. know, maybe they've got some stuff that.

like you can go down a list and be like. that's not my preference. Those are the things you need to. tolerate and accept. Because they have the other things of. values, you enjoy being touched by them, you enjoy kissing them, like there's. attraction there, you agree on what a. life well lived is, and you really feel. comfortable being who you are when. you're with them. Does the one that got away actually. exist? I don't know. I think that's a story. that people tell themselves. Why do we do that?

What I've seen is we've had some made. some poor choices and so that we look. back at that person and we romanticize. them and pedestal them and actually see. them maybe better than what they were, better for us, and so we get into our. heads and we romanticize them. So I'm. not quite sure. What I do know for sure. is that if you tell yourself that story, well then you're just like sealing your. fate that there's just no one else out. there for you and to me that's part of. the whole romanticism theory that keeps. us very stuck in in suffering.

I agree. Yeah, it's it's almost like. that nostalgia effect. Yeah, yes. you look back on everything and it was. always so much better. If you actually. went back there you'd be like, this was. the worst thing. Like just go and find. an old journal when you were a kid or a. diary whatever it is and look back at it. and be like, oh life wasn't as great as. I pretend to think it was. Exactly. And nostalgia just makes everything seem. so much more romantic and beautifully. colored. manipulative, isn't it? is. It's what you said, it's a. protective mechanism of oh things used.

to be better and you know that's a safe. space and I feel good and but actually. it's not really protecting you because. it's like you said it's manipulating you. into into unhealthy belief. You have a. beautiful quote in the book where you. say, stay in your head and your. relationship is dead. And I think that's. partly it that we stay in our head in. relationships in a lot of ways. Some of. them can be negative thoughts. Some of. them can be. doubts. Some of them can be questions. Some of them can be, you know,

ruminating on the past. Yes. Uh how do we how do we get out of our. heads and get out of those repetitive. thoughts? Yeah, I love talking about this cuz I'm. someone I I tend to lean sort of. intellectual and when I am not centered. I lean as a lot of people do and a lot. of women these days anxious. So I can. get like very like ruminating and. analytical and all that. So I feel very equipped and also I when. I work with so many people, I mean. the stories that they tell themselves. about themselves and about their partner.

that's not rooted in the truth because. they're not communicating. I mean it's. the stories in our heads that ruin. relationships. So how do we get out of our heads? Well, we start telling the truth and we start. communicating. Like that's like the. low-hanging fruit. Like build enough. self-awareness. And this takes practice. Where you can say, uh I'm in my head. right now. I am getting lost in a story. right now because it's a habit and some. people really have a bad habit of. getting lost in such a story about. another person, and they get themselves.

so worked up. And so, what you have to. do is to keep practicing, "Uh, that's. that storyteller in me right now. That's. that storyteller. Maybe something else. is true. Could something else be true? Let me communicate." Getting out of our. heads is also getting in our bodies. So, exercise, movement, breath work, going. for a long walk, having a long healing. conversation with a friend, uh, doing. something where you're social. If we're. too much in isolation and we're spending. too much time with ourselves, we're too. much in our heads. So, it's a really.

beautiful strategy to get out of our. heads when we see a friend or two, or we. even go to something that we're invited. to, and just because then our attention. is outwardly focused. Like right now, our attention is outwardly focused. Yes, we have to go a little inward to kind of. think You have to go inward to kind of. think of the question, right? I have to. go a little bit inward to kind of give. you an answer. But, we're very because. we're having this like conversation, it's just you and me, and the lights are. on us, and the cameras are rolling, we're outward focused. And when we're. alone, everything is so inward focused.

So, moving our bodies is always the. easiest, fastest way to get out of our. heads. It's really And it's daily. movement. It's like, "Oh, I'm in my. head, I'm going to go for a walk. Oh, I'm in my head. in my head, maybe I have to take a cold. shower. Get out of this state. Maybe I. have to talk to someone." But, it starts. with the awareness of, you know, my mind. All of our minds can be become. battlefields. Our mind can be a. beautiful thing, but if we don't stand. guard of our mind, we are going to be in. serious trouble, and no one is.

invulnerable to that. As we're talking about it, one thing. that came to my mind was just how. we're really focused on starting things. as humans. Um, we're good at reacting to. when things end. And we're really. complacent and ignorant in the middle. Yeah. Right? We've talked a lot today about. dating, and then we're talking about. when things go wrong. And maintenance is not something we find. interesting. Exactly. So true. Yeah, it's it's not something as humans. that we like maintaining a home like.

building a home, designing a home, that's cool. Yeah. Uh when you if you leave something and. you're finding something new, that's. that's interesting. It's something to. pay attention to. Sure. But maintenance is something that we we. ignore so much. And I was thinking if. you could recommend a reflection someone. could do with their partner right now. whether they're stuck or what maybe it's. like. what if something feels. almost right but not fully right as in. there's nothing wrong. Uh-huh. What do you do in that situation because. I think a lot of people find themselves.

there where it's like they're in that. maintenance phase. Yeah, a little stuck. you're not getting married, you're not. you know, you're not having the big. moment and you're not you're not kind of. ending it like there's nothing wrong. Yeah. But you're just kind of like coasting, maybe borderline a little bit bored or. complacent. Yeah. So like let's say this couple has kids. Stop making your kids the only focus of. your life. You have to your children. actually want you to focus on each. other. That's what's going to be really.

good. Like you are benefiting your. children's mental health and lives when. they when you are connecting with each. other. So that's important. Shake things up a. little bit. Whether that's individually or together. Go on a date, try something new, bring. some novelty, whether that's in the. bedroom or completely outside of the. bedroom. Take some time to really. connect with each other. Maybe it's. sitting down and having a meal and just. being like, okay, we're going to put the. phones away, we're going to really. connect and.

maybe we're going to talk about. something a little bit deeper today. And. I went to I had dinner over at a. friend's last night and it was so. wonderful. Like we just went into really. deep stuff. I mean, also. sprinkled in with a little fun and silly. stuff, but we just went into very deep. stuff and it's like, well, this is so. refreshing to be around people where you. can be vulnerable and open." And I think. couples kind of. you don't want to be doing that all the. time cuz you need a little levity. So, this is a interesting thing. As a. couple, maybe you have to do a. temperature check. Like, do we need a.

little bit of levity? Like, do we need a. little bit of lightness? Have we been. too bogged down with the routines? Are. we talking about the relationship too. much? And we need to have like some fun. Then, do something new. Do something. fun. Do something that you would have. done in the first 3 months of your. relationship few years in, and watch the. change happen in your relationship, and. build it into your weekly routine, or at. least your monthly routine. If your. relationship is kind of feeling you're.

feeling a little dis- disconnected, right? So, it's not the lack of levity, but there's the lack of connection. Get vulnerable. Maybe maybe connect in. the bedroom or outside of the bedroom. Have have a real heart-to-heart. Maybe. do something new that's also very. bonding. Um. touch each other, and I'm not even. talking in a in a sexual way, but are. you touching each other? Like, do you. put a hand on the leg or on the. shoulder? Are you being present with. each other? Again, this is the part. that's mindfulness, and it really.

Sometimes it's so little that has a huge. ripple effect. And it's just a matter of oh, this is. what we need. And one of you. take the leadership role in that in that. way. Be like, "Okay, let's do this. I. really want to do this." It shouldn't be. framed as like, "Oh, you know, we need. this otherwise." It's just like, "I. would really love this. Wouldn't this be. Wouldn't this be so lovely if. And sometimes it's just let me change. something in me. Maybe it's not even a. conversation with your partner. It's how.

you're showing up. Maybe you've grown a. little complacent towards the. relationship, towards your life, towards. anything. Maybe you need to shake things. up a little bit inside yourself and. bring a little bit more of the part of. you because we all have so many. different parts to our psyche and our. personality. Maybe bring a little bit. more of what you brought in the. beginning of the relationship now, and. that. kind of always does the trick if people. are willing. Switching from going back to the. beginning of the relationship, looking.

at the end of a relationship. Yeah. If someone's broken up with you, what's. the best self-reflection exercise that. you'd recommend to someone if someone's. just broken up with them? Well, if they're just in the shock and. the pain of just broken up Yeah, I would. Yeah, I would say after that because in. the beginning it's more just like how. can I survive and who's going to support. me, right? But when you're sort of out. of that initial shock of. of pain, you're still hurt and you're. still sad, but you're ready to.

self-reflect. One of the hardest things. to do, yet most important things to do, and maybe you'll never 100% get clear is. how did I contribute to whatever. did not work. Mhm. And how did they contribute? It's so. hard not to go into the blame game and. just blame them for everything and blame. ourselves for anything, but true. self-reflection when it comes to the end. of a relationship is can I have some. clarity around some of the patterns that. I have.

that have contributed to whatever didn't. work, and can I get clear about what. they did and what their patterns were. that really didn't work. Mhm. And that's a process and it's a journey. of self-reflection, but I think that is. absolutely important. So, start with. what are some of the ways in which maybe. I have contributed to what didn't work. Is there Is there something in my. self-esteem that needs to be worked on? Is there something that I learned from. childhood that maybe isn't working? Mhm. And then to add to that is what did I.

contribute that really worked? What are. my strengths in relationship? Cuz you. have to reflect on that, too. How was I. really, really loving? Maybe I was too. loving to a fault, but I was still. loving. Mhm. You know, and I'd rather be too loving. to a fault than not loving at all, you. know? So, those are some of the. questions that we need to ask ourselves. And these are hard, you know, I've gone. through tremendous heartbreak and just. having to go through that. But I was so. hell-bent on I don't want to this to.

ever happen again. So, what do I have to. do? And look, accountability in a. relationship, wherever the relationship. is, in the beginning, middle, or end, is. the most important thing. If you cannot. take responsibility for being another. human being in this dynamic, then you. are essentially a nightmare to be in a. relationship with. And I uh hate to be. so blunt, but it's true. Accountability. is everything. It's not about taking all. the blame, but we have to be able to own our stuff. And when two people are doing that, I.

really think that there's. tremendous healing that can happen. between two people if they're willing to. do that. Jillian, thank you so much for your. insights today. It's been uh. really wonderful having this back and. forth with you of just kind of. thinking about all the different. iterations, moments, phases of a. relationship. And we end every episode. of On Purpose with a final five. Yes. Or a fast five. Every question has to be. answered in one word to one sentence. maximum. Okay. So, Jillian Turecki, these are your fast. five. Uh the first question is, what is.

the best love advice you've ever heard. or received? No one is perfect. Figure out what you. can tolerate and what you can't. tolerate. I like that. Uh second question is, what. is the worst relationship advice you've. ever heard or received? You don't have to lean on your husband. when you're going through a miscarriage. You just lean on your mother and your. sister. That was the worst advice I got. from a therapist. Someone said that to you? Yeah, a therapist. He said that to me. Mhm. Let's uh. uh take a detour to focus on that a. little bit.

How did that feel? Very confusing. I understand when you're in a. relationship that your partner should. not be your only confidant. That it's really important to have. some community or other people around. you that you go to. Like you don't have. to go to your partner for every single. thing. You have to have other sources. But if you're going through a. miscarriage and you can't lean on your. partner, to me that sounds insane. But I think. her intention was don't lean on him for.

everything. Sure. And so I took that on as oh my god, you. know, I'm being too dependent or too be. doing being too codependent. It was very. confusing and it was only later on when. I started to do this work where I. recognized that that was the worst piece. of advice I've ever received ever from. anyone. And I've. Especially in that situation. Especially in that situation. And I. could not disagree with it more. That's. exactly. who you should be leaning on and it's. exactly who you should feel safe leaning. on. Question number three, one of your hard.

truths is number eight, no one is coming. to save you. Uh what do you do? Save yourself. And choose someone who's going to have. your back while you do that. Good right answer. And uh. question number four, truth number nine, you say you must make. peace with your parents. Why is that so. important? What I will say first, cuz I think this. is important, I don't In the book I do say if you were.

sexually abused or terribly abused, um I. would no way tell someone to make peace. with their parent. Mhm. What I would encourage them to do is to. figure out how to become the hero of. their story rather than just the. survivor. Even if you never speak to. their parent again, you have to figure. out a way to question the story that you. have about them so that you are looking. at them and thinking of them through the. lens of your adult self and not your. child self. Because if you don't, that. is going to infiltrate your romantic. life and cause you a lot of problems.

Wish I was one word, but. No, no, no, no, that's a good answer. No, no, absolutely. Yeah. Uh and fifth and final question, if you. could create one law that everyone in. the world had to follow, what would it. be? Oh. I know I might say something and then. I'm like later I'm like, "Oh my god, I. should have said that." One law, oh my. god. Letting go is so much easier. than clinging. Mhm. Letting go is so much easier than. clinging. It's really hard, but your. life will be so much better.

than clinging if you learn to just let. things be. Jillian Turecki, thank you so much. The. book is called It Begins With You, The. Nine Hard Truths About Love That Will. Change Your Life. You can grab your copy. right now. You heard about some of the. hard truths in this conversation, but I. hope that you'll dive into the book to. learn and understand so much more. It's. out on January 14th. I'm sure this will. be out while you're watching this, the. book will be out already or very, very. soon. Uh Jillian, thank you so much for. coming on On Purpose. Thank you for.

sharing so wonderfully, and I'm excited. for people to connect with your content. online and continue to follow along to. see how much more they can learn about. love. And. thank you for reminding us all that it. begins with you. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. Thank you. So grateful. Thank you, me too. If you loved this episode, you're going. to love my conversation with Matthew. Hussey on how to get over your ex and. find true love in your relationships. People should be compassionate to. themselves, but extend that compassion.

to your future self because truly. extending your compassion to your future. self is doing something that gives him. or her a shot at a happy and a peaceful. life.