The Ceremony That Finally Ended Her Dark Thoughts For Good | Jada Pinkett Smith

that was a really. really it's a really painful time I'm. sorry please welcome J pink Smith you. want out of the pain only way out is. death Chris comes to the end of the. stage and he looks at me deeply. sincerely and he. says I also have a letter from Will.

before we jump into this episode I'd. like to invite you to join this. community to hear more interviews that. will help you become happier healthier. and more healed all I want you to do is. click on the Subscribe button I love. your support it's incredible to see all. your comments and we're just getting. started I can't wait to go on this. journey with you thank you so much for. subscribing it means the world to me the. bestselling author and host the number. one Health and this podcast on purpose.

with J. shett now Jay before we start go on can. I tell a story you can okay I got I have. to let your audience know how this book. even became okay they have to know Jay. okay all right so I visit you I'm here. visiting because Swami's here R now swam. is here and you had often said Jada you. should write a book I'm like Jay I don't. want to so this day once again you're.

like Jada you should write a book and. I'm like Jay I don't want to write a. book you're like well you should write a. book Jay I don't want to write a book. we're going back and forth like siblings. R comes into the kitchen because Rody's. making a beautiful lunch for us to eat. he comes he sits down he goes Jay if. Jada doesn't want to write a book she. doesn't have to write a book and you go. well I think she should write a book and. I was like oh did he just talk back. to but I'm going to tell you something.

that was a really a moment for me right. because I said I cuz I'd been pushing. back for a long time and you talking to. me about it and that moment I was like. okay I need you to take that home and I. need you to think about it because Jay's. your brother there's something here that. you might not be. seeing and it was really that moment. that put me on pause and a couple of. days later I was in. meditation and it came to me and I said. oh my goodness.

my journey from. unlovable to. lovable is a worthy story to tell and I. called you and I said Jay I got it thank. you but you were so persistent about it. right and I just want to thank you. because honestly and I'm not you know if. it hadn't been for that moment that book. wouldn't be here right now right and you. really were on my neck about it for a.

long. time so I just want to say thank you. because you also made it clear you were. like you'll you made it clear to me I. would get a lot out of it and I have so. I just want to say thank you it's been. such a deep healing process for me in. ways that I could have never imagined. you know and what you said before you. know we even started in the introduction. you know just that hope of it's so hard.

to find authentic happiness in this. world even through my journey my 52. years and just trying to figure out how. to be. authentically happy has been such an. excruciating process and one of the. purposes of this book is like if I can. help in. any small amount of way you know in any. way possible to help help somebody have.

an easier or just leave like little. breadcrumbs kind of like not a blueprint. cuz everybody's process is different but. just little breadcrumbs of how to find. that for yourself because it has been. really difficult for me so thank you. thank you thank you well thank you for. sharing that with me and I think I. blocked that memory out because I don't. I don't think I've ever tried to stand. up against rather a from.

te you know my teacher before I think. that would uh so i' I've pretended that. it yeah IED It For Me growing up reading. autobiographies is what changed my life. and I think one of the things that I. feel we struggle with today is that. people's. narratives are being told from so many. different angles apart from their. own and when I grew up and I was reading. the words of Martin Luther King or I was. reading Malcolm X.

I found there to be so much power in. reading the words directly from an. individual and. so even if that wasn't their. autobiography if it was their work their. words you felt so intimately connected. with that person and I feel that when. people move on and we don't have them on. the planet anymore it's almost like you. lose this Treasure House of experience. and memories and also think that if.

someone's listening or watching right. now and you're thinking well Jay I would. never write a book I'm not a public. figure I'm not a celebrity I'm not a. musician or an actor I don't have a. career path that means I should be an. author I still think that telling your. story whether it's to your family your. kids your is so important I could not. not agree with you more I think it's. actually imperative that looking at your. life life on the page like you.

forget experiences you know you forget. like oh my goodness I did that oh I went. through that oh my god really I came. through that it's like it's almost like. an homage to yourself honestly to really. be able to look at your life and go. wow what a life I think everybody should. take some time even if it's just one. like because even with Worthy I took one.

line which was unlovable to lovable so. anything in regards to my life that was. on that. Arc I talked about but there's so much. more so many other parts of my life. right so even if somebody says you know. what I just want to you know write down. um the happiest moments of my childhood. and I want to just look at that on paper. right but whatever Journey somebody. decides to pick from from their life um. and to examine thoroughly on the page I.

would definitely suggest that because it. is really powerful and it's so healing. and it will teach you so much about. yourself absolutely I couldn't agree. more I could agree more let's let's dive. in okay because that journey of being. unlovable to lovable as you're tracing. there I think is a journey that we all. have to walk in our own ways and I think. when you know I I met you I think five.

years ago now we've just spent a lot of. time together in The Last 5 Years hence. we have a deep connection but when I. first met you I was looking at you from. the outside and over the last five years. I've got to know you through an inner. journey and and you know through family. as well and through spending time with. your. family and what I found was that we. often lose. context when you view someone's life. from the outside and when you get closer. the greatest thing you get is context.

and so I wanted to start off and this. book does that so well but I want to. start off of what does it feel like. growing up with a teenage mom who has an. addiction like I think that that is so. formative in so many ways and it's so. easy to forget that that's where you. started because of your career growing. up with my mother a teenage my it's was. like we grew up together it's almost. like having a big. sister I mean even to this day you know. it's like it's like I I get to have two.

roles in my mom like sometimes she's. still my big sister and then sometimes. she really comes in like as your as my. mother you know what I mean as you saw. in the book it's like I had all this. Freedom running crazy in the streets and. what have you but there was such pivotal. moments where Adrian came to the rescue. as my mother right and she still does. that to this day but it was you know I. did a lot of having to raise myself self.

and there are parts of that it's pros. and cons to that there's a lot of Pros. it's like that is the part that made it. possible for me to come to La at the age. of 18 on my own and figure this. Hollywood game out right just with no. fear completely Fearless but then also. kind of growing up with certain ideas of. what I thought um love was or certain. survival mechanisms that you know as I. got old.

didn't quite serve me but I think that. we all have that no matter what our. family background is you know what I'm. saying we all kind of pick up things. that along the way that um don't serve. us for the entirety of our journey I. tell you I I. learned a lot having a young. mom at at an early age I really do think. that even with our trials and our. challenges that the great Supreme gave. me the mom I was supposed to have and. the most perfect mother in The Journey.

that I was supposed to have to prepare. me for other parts of my journey but you. know it was challenging and beautiful at. the same time yeah and I love gamy so I. just want to put that yeah yeah we all. love gamy we all love gamy Yeah and and. but it's really interesting there's one. line in your book that really kind of. cemented that feeling of unlovable to me. from that time and you said there was a. time when you felt like you were not. being a priority to the two people who. gave you life like hard that really hit.

me because I was like yeah that was. probably really difficult and like you. had two parents who drugs were their. focus in the lifestyle that came with it. you know I also talk about in the book. when my father told me at seven years. old I can't be your father and it's just. like wow okay what do I do with this. what does a seven-year-old do with that. you you just kind of internalize it and. you kind of go okay um what's wrong with.

me what is it about me that I'm not. enough for these two people to look at. me as a priority because I see everybody. else's parents and it looks like their. kids are their priority so what's wrong. with me so you kind of I internalized. this idea of not being enough not being. lovable and it's it's strange cuz it's. not that that I didn't feel like like my.

mother didn't love me it's just that am. I lovable. enough to be the priority am I lovable. enough to for you to show up for me as. the mom that I see other moms be you. know so I. definitely internalize that and I think. that I took that into the world of like. I'm just going to prove constantly. having to prove myself then I I'm I'm. lovable I'm lovable enough I'm lovable.

enough and I think that was some of the. messaging that I took from my childhood. into into my adulthood and I appreciate. you going back to that seven-year-old. self because in hindsight and now. looking back you can make sense of it. and you can connect the dots but it's. like when you're actually in that. position it's very natural as you said. to just internalize it and I think that. what's really interesting with your. journey is we all have to develop the. emotional skills our parents didn't have.

yeah and the earlier we do that the. easier and simpler life. becomes but often most of our energy. goes in thinking well I wish they had. them or they should have had them and. when I'm listening to you what I'm. hearing is that it's not even the belief. that they don't love me or love me. enough it's the belief that somewhere. inside I am not lovable yes yes right. it's it's it's so inside it's not even. about them absolutely it's like I'm not.

valuable I'm not yeah it's because. that's your mirror at first right but it. it and it's so complicated and nuanced. do I believe my father loved me of. course in the way that he could I think. that he felt the most loving thing he. could do was tell me I can't be your. father and I respected that even at. seven because I was like at least. somebody's telling me the truth I've.

always respected hardcore truths that is. one thing about me I respect hardcore. truths doesn't mean I always like them. but I freaking respect them at seven. like that lesson started that's a. gangster hardcore truth to tell a child. but then at the same time that seed. within me that is like well are all men. like that like if my dad doesn't love me. how is any man going to love me I didn't.

realize that at seven MH that's when I. started getting into like 16 17 when I. start you know having those kind of. intimate relationships with men and. realizing oh wow I'm really this area is. this area is quite. unhealthy you know what I mean of just. like how I viewed myself I was either. giving too much or not enough I'm either. hot or super cold.

you know emotionally yeah yeah and so. trying to regulate and understand. because you know my understanding is. that a a young girl's first relationship. and understanding of Love is with her. father I didn't have that at all so I'm. still learning yeah yeah I'm still. really immature in that area of just. emotional development. around.

intimacy with masculinity I know that. now whereas before I didn't know that. yeah you know aware I'm not aware like. this is just what it is and then growing. up in an environment with so much. violence and so much aggression and oh. man it was like what do you do with all. that and trying to just like unpack all. of it to just figure out like oh life is. about love it's not about power and ego. and winning and losing. I mean it's taken me I'm.

52 just now understanding that it's been. a wild ride but you know. what every day I thank the great Supreme. for for the journey and just for giving. me the Awakenings the little Awakenings. that I get about love and just my. willingness to have it you know really. wanting to understand what love is all. about but I do have to give my. grandmother a lot of credit I was going. to talk about yeah Maran really I had.

all these different seeds that were. planted in me and Maran seed that that. goes to show you how the Legacy of Love. Will overpower everything it is her it. is the legacy of love that my. grandmother instilled in me and also the. desire to search she always had me. understand that the world is full of. treasures get out there and find them m. she instilled that in me at a very young.

age and she also instilled in me that I. was special but I was her first. grandchild you know I was her first. grandchild there you go makeing excuses. right I'm just saying you know I her. first grandchild and so she she really. made me think that I could be and do. anything being the child of two addicts. on one side and then my grandmother. instilling in me like no I'm telling you.

you got something. kid you know what I mean and so just. being able to hold on to those seeds. that she put within me and then of. course my mother encouraging me along. the way too my mother saw some really. beautiful stuff in me as well and she's. been one of my biggest cheerleaders and. champions throughout my life absolutely. if your if your grandmother saw you. today oh what would she say my goodness. my grandmother would be so proud of me.

through it all like with the good and. the challenges she had a very. challenging life extremely and what she. was able to make out of her life as a. immigrant you know child of two. immigrants from. Jamaica um she became pregnant at 13 to. this day we don't know how that happened. we do believe that that it was a mistake.

and it wasn't that she was raped or. molested or t you know I never got that. from her I always got that it was her. lack of. knowledge about sex that created that. circumstance and um she had that baby on. her own she was pretty much abandoned. and she was taken in by a family through. a foster a white family who she worked. for as a maid and um got herself to. Howard University. wow and was able to go to India as an.

ambassador yeah she went to India and. came back and my grandfather who was. studying to be a doctor asked her to get. married so I think she would be and is. very proud of me with it all I love that. that's that's special to feel that that. if someone to look back so Jay at the. start of this book you talk about how. you were and this broke my heart you. were talking about how you were planning.

taking your life but then how it could. look like an accident yeah that was 2011. that was my 40th birthday my 40th year. actually when I was reading that I was. just thinking to myself I was like what. were you hoping that would achieve like. what what were you hoping that would. solve talk us through that yeah it's. funny because when you're in those. States you're not clear it's not like. it's is going to make rational sense.

right you want out of the pain and you. cannot imagine your only way out is. death you think in your mind you've. tried everything and you're. like it's all I got I can't do this I. can't keep doing this and so that's your. only. solution and I tell people all the time. you know we've had a lot of um different. Spotlight of people of taking their life. people call I cannot believe it and I'm.

like you just never know what somebody's. going through and there are certain. people that have a high tolerance for. being able to put on a good face in. order. to not burden people MH but what is. really interesting is. that when you have a. plan sometimes that gives you enough. energy to just keep going cuz you're. like okay I got a good plan so if this.

gets really bad I know where to go M and. you're like okay I'm just going to keep. trying to figure this out I'm keep. trying to figure this out but I got this. plan and it's really tough because you. don't want to for personalities like. myself you don't want to burden anybody. and you're like look if I can't figure. out how to get out of this nobody else. is going to be able to figure this out. either that was a really really.

a really painful time I'm sorry no don't. be sorry j I'm really grateful that I am. found a way. out but I think about people who don't. find it and I wish I. wish there was. like one I could say one piece of advice.

you know like what would you tell. somebody in a situation like that and. all I can ever say is please just keep. going keep trying keep walking trust. because if you trust and I know how. difficult it is you know for people who. are in it like that's easy for you to. say but if you keep. trusting the universe will open up. door and I know how hard it is to just.

wake. up and keep it going cuz for me it was. hard just waking up in the morning if I. could get to. 4:00 I was like okay you made it another. day being able. to have enough strength to just get. up get out of. bed put clothes on get through your.

day and let no one know that you're. struggling it is so. hard I feel really. blessed you know when plant medicine. came my way it saved my life and I know. that it's still a lot. of whatever around Plant medicine but. I'm going to tell you like this and I'm. not saying that that's for everybody. because my way out was a. rugged four.

nights and it was just my thoughts. thoughts about myself it was just my. self-hatred the level of self-hatred. you have that I have had to want to take. my own life and I had to walk four. nights to clear up look at be with that. level of self-hatred I was like you want. to talk about walking through the valley. of the shadow of death but I'm really.

grateful for that experience because. after that one. night I never thought about suicide. again yeah after the ceremony after the. ceremony and it was really my last. resort I was like okay this has been. brought my way I'm going to try this and. it worked praise God thank you that's a. really painful place for me still and. just thinking about about how many.

people are sitting in that. place it really breaks my heart trusting. God that's those moments where I just. have to just be. like God these are your children you. will take care and I pray that God you. will provide the door you have provided. for me thank you for being so vulnerable. with us I want to give you a big hug can. I come give you a big hug you can give. me a hug hug. oh I love.

you thank you you've been such a. wonderful. friend you really have. you've been by my side through some. really tough stuff only for more. time only for more challenges to come. along the way I'm so i' never you know I. wouldn't have had the fortune of getting. to meet you and I'm really glad that you. you know were so vulnerable with us just. now because I I really feel like the. there's more people than we think that.

have those thoughts trust and believe it. trust and believe it there's. people there's people that you see every. day that you would never believe it's so. funny to to have that level of strength. and that level of vulnerability and just. you know Despair and at the same time. that level of like. helplessness that could drive you to do. something like that but a lot of times.

we just don't know how to communicate it. I didn't know how and no one knew like. the will kids this is. already they knew I was very unhappy. yeah that wasn't a secret and people. didn't understand why either so let's. talk about that for a minute the shame. that comes with those feelings and. specifically like everybody feels that. level of shame I don't care what station.

of life you're existing in and I would. say I'm unhappy and people would look at. me like I'm crazy what are you unhappy. about and so then I just went in even. more cuz I was like they're right look. what you've accomplished you've got this. great family you've got a great life. yeah you got the house you got the house. the car this and that what's your. problem so then that's a hot cup of. Shame so you just I just shut down.

that's such a great note to put out. there because I think so many times we. we think like that about maybe our. friends it's like you. have you so. much like that language can be so yeah. and I would suggest anybody don't say. that yeah don't say that to somebody. who's saying I'm having a tough time I'm. struggling you have this you have that. no what's going on tell me help me. understand yeah as ridiculous as it may.

sound to you right to that person that. thought has been repeated so many times. abolutely become their reality even if. it seems ridiculous to you like yeah it. can be so foreign I get it yeah but that. is. somebody. trying to step out and talk so we have. to have we have to be receptive is and. not to look at it you know it and that. is like that's tricky too.

because really being able. to meet somebody where they. are versus trying to meet somebody where. you're at and that in itself is a skill. set just being able to go okay hold it. what am I missing here let me just take. a minute let me blend with you let me. join you I didn't have that and it's. nobody's fault you know I'm hoping that. anyone who thinks anyone in their life.

is struggling will share what you just. shared with us with them to start a. conversation to open up that dialogue. because I think you just said it now and. it brought a thought to my mind that. real love or real compassion is when you. help someone get to the next step in. their Journey yeah not in your journey. yeah and that means being able to be. present with them wherever they are even. if it seems like a foreign alien land to.

you I really feel like if anyone has. anyone in their life who's. struggling please send that to them. please share that with them. because that they need to hear it from. someone else who's been there sometimes. also because if you've not been there. you don't you may not know how to say. and and I think that's the other thing. right the other side is one side is we. say oh you should be happy you're fine. the other side is we try and fix it yeah. you can't right yeah you can't you can't. solve it there is per there is no right.

you can't solve it the best that we can. do is like you can try to meet them. where they are and let's get help we can. do it together and hold hands and and. get them to someone. professional I will say it's really. healing. when someone can join you it's. also having that boundary of. understanding too that you can only do. but so much as well mhm a person has to.

really want help mhm and that's why I. would tell the person that might be. struggling to just stay open to try. everything you know what I mean like I. tried. every until I found the thing yeah and. just keep walking until you find the. thing that obviously happens a lot later. on even though you start the book with. that but there was a time when you. believe believed that Hollywood and.

having it all would do it would do it. even before you get to this point and so. and also what I find fascinating is you. grew up where like drug dealing was. normal you were in that scene you were. meeting people everyone around you was. in that scene you weren't as from what I. gathered from the book and the time. we've spent together there weren't a lot. of people who were breaking that mold. yeah no what was it that made you a. believe that you could move to LA when. you were 18 and break that mold and that. you didn't have to fall into the pattern.

of everyone around you and at the same. time secondly what was it that made you. believe that that would solve it that. that was what was missing thank goodness. along the way I had great mentors like. Donald hickin you know at Baltimore. School for the Arts that was like Jen. you've got more talent in the pinky of. your your little pinky that most people. have in their whole bodies you know that. he forced me to go you know into that. audition for North Carolina School for.

the Arts and that's what got me out of. Baltimore so that I could. just get away from that lifestyle and. break that mentality right um and then. once I got immersed again into my. art I was like wow I really love this. and once I click into something like my. mind goes you know what I mean and then. poac came to La well he wasn't in La he. was in Northern California and Pac kept. saying you got to get out here it's.

popping you know what I mean and now. he's like you got to come out here and. visit and so I was like all right I'm. going to get out there Pac was another. one too that was just like you got it. Jada you got it and I'm like all right. I'm coming you so I told my mom I was. like you got two choices cuz I still. wasn't quite sure yet you know I was. like I could go to LA and see if I can.

do this Hollywood thing or I could. become a lawyer and take all my. Dramatics to the court right to the. courthouse and she said we're going to. La wow once I got to La I was like. you're here MH make it happen and part. of what made me think that I could do it. it wasn't just about talent but was just. my persever. and just my go I'm a pitbull when it.

comes to when I want something you know. especially in my youth I'm not so much. pit. anymore but in my youth you know once I. put my mind to something I was like go. get it and I really felt like how. everybody else feels you know like yo. once I make it once I'm rich and famous. yeah all my problems are going to be. solved you know what I mean my problems. are going to be solved my mom's problems. going to be solved you know everybody's.

problems going to be solved I got this. you know what I'm saying and so and that. was a trip because that wasn't the case. and I think that that's still prevalent. people feel like once you get to a. certain level of success you are exempt. from The Human. Experience you are exempt from The Human. Condition and the truth. is that is not the case and let me tell. you I had an.

existential drop in realizing hold it. wait a minute hold it like my career is. popping I got. money I'm hot people are pursuing you I. got every dude everywhere wanting to you. know what I mean like I can have anybody. I. want why am I not happy. God now this wasn't this wasn't the.

plan I couldn't believe it cuz that was. the whole idea you make it you pull. yourself up by your own bootstraps you. make it and life's. great and thank goodness at that. particular point in time I had Pac that. I could go like we could share that. together because he was going through. the same existential. disappointment he thought the same thing. that was like the beginning of just like. wait a minute then if it's not this then.

what is it it's incredible that you had. a supportive friend in in Tupac you had. this amazing friend who was saying. you've got this you're talented and that. can really help yeah and at the same. time there's a whole another inner. Journey that has to happen with it so. that was externally it was empowering it. was inspiring it was great to have. someone believe in you and we all need. that yeah and at the same time it was. like this other reminder of the inner. world was not together yeah at all and. being completely. ignored you know and it would take me.

years to realize that that oh no it's. not just about what's happening on the. outside Jada but if your inner world is. not your foundation it's all sand. castles you know I had a nervous. breakdown then I mov to Baltimore I get. a farmhouse there and I'm like okay I'm. just going to get out of La I'm making a. geographical move I'm like I just got to. get back to my roots you know I got to. get back to my roots and then um will. comes along and I'm like maybe that's it.

I need a man you know and then it's like. latch on to. that it's like okay that's my new. Prozac will you know he's G now it's his. job to make my life. better that doesn't work. either so the ego just attached to all. these different exterior things until. eventually I'm you know I had to crash. to really having to look at the shambles.

of my inner world and rebuild and. rebuild it and I say rebuild it because. I feel like when we're born that inner. world is intact but I had to really. strip it all down Jay to the Bare Bones. the bolts and just start inwardly from. the bottom and just build and it's been. a wild ride it's been a wild ride of. what what that means and what that looks.

like when it comes to your friendship. with Tupac which you speak about so. beautifully in the book and it's so. wonderful because we get an insight into. him in a way that you don't as just a. fan of the music right so as someone who. grew up listening to him myself it's. like you get a certain perception yeah. of someone who's intelligent but then. also has this gangster lifestyle persona. Etc but then again when you get context.

yeah and you get to know about someone. through someone who actually knows them. right and what I really appreciated. which I found fascinating was just how. you had the wisdom at that time to know. that someone would be a special friend. without being romantic with them yeah. talk to us about because I feel like a. lot of people struggle yeah he was. obviously into you and when you first. met Etc the way you describe it but it's. like and and there's even one point.

where you dare him. to and I want you to tell that but but. what I find fascinating and what I want. to help people with here is like how. were you able to create and build a. relationship with someone knowing. initially that it was based on some. attraction right but actually you knew. there was so much more to it how were. you able to allow that to unfold because. I think so many of us get so scared if. we're not into someone we go okay I'm. just going to push away or that person. eventually tries to make a move anyway.

but here it was like this beautiful. respect this you both created that yeah. we both did we both had the intelligence. you know we were both really young so I. think I thank the great Supreme for this. too. that there was. no physical chemistry between us I mean. literally it was like and it w i I try. to explain this to people. it was the same for Pac it was just like.

when I dared him to kiss me he was I. mean it was like ew for us both right. and we look it's like how can that be. how can you feel so connected to someone. of the opposite sex there was just this. beautiful understanding you know when. you can just sit with somebody in the. room you don't have to say a word mhm. and there's just this level of comfort. yeah we we just knew each other the the. moment Pac saw me and our eyes and I saw.

his peanut head across the. room at Baltimore School for the Arts it. was like I knew him already we just got. each other I just understood him in that. understanding and he understood me so we. could pull each other's coattails but we. could also join each other when I talk. about that joining when you can sit with. somebody and really feel like they see. you they understand you. they care about you and they're going to.

be there by you no matter what that was. Tupac he was going to ride with me no. matter what he was so authentic and and. it's rare yeah that that level of. authenticity and he was so he had wore. his heart on his sleeve and there was. just this amount of loyalty between us. and I think also the fact that we both. struggled with mothers who were. addicts and we tried to compensate for. one another of not having that peace and.

we didn't boohoo about it we understood. how to fill in the um voids without. getting all hallm Marky about it you. know what I. mean you know what I mean and so that it. was so we just kind of knew how to flow. with each other in a way that was very. comfortable yeah yeah it's always hard. to kind of explain because it was like.

it's it's almost like he he was really a. kindred that's that's the only way I. could really explain it and I feel so. lucky and so blessed that I got to. know a being like himself in that way. cuz he was such a dyamic. person but you can feel it cuz his music. is still lasting for Generations now. absolutely you know so he he was just a. treasure teach us what's the difference. between sexual chemistry and energetic.

connection or authentic connection. because I think we often think that to. get close to someone you need that and. here it's not just about the fact that. there wasn't attraction or it was. there's more to it in that I feel like. there's a subtle difference in how you. were able to accept that there is a. authentic connection but it doesn't have. to include it does physical chemistry in. order to have a deep energetic.

connection if that makes sense as a I. actually think in my experience some of. the deepest connections that I've. had with men have not included sex. whatsoever right and I think. that sex sometimes can Cloud things a. lot of a lot of things come in that a. lot of people don't understand so you. you know whether it's like certain.

levels of emotional trauma all these. kinds of. things. energetically the the heart-to-heart. spirit space has a level of Purity to it. where even if things get difficult like. when things would get challenging with. pck andai we could get to it. fast and there's just a level of. Purity and it's not attached to I want. to make things right with you so I can. sleep with. you that's yeah you agenda it's not that.

agenda the agendas are pure they're more. pure and it it has more space it's like. I love you but you got to live your life. MH I love truthful I can be truthful I. can be honest I think that with us I. could be more of. myself because one thing I knew about. Pac I never had to worry about you know. when we had big blowups which we did all.

the time he's coming back I'm never. worried about that I never worried about. oh my God two no he listen whe it's a. year whether it's a year a week three. days I had to love all that Pac was he. loved all that I was the good and the. bad and he was going to be right there. with that and vice versa that was one of. the most beautiful aspects of our. relationship we didn't have to fake it. we didn't have to like pretend to be.

other things and we could be honest he. could pull my coattails I could pull his. coattails I could give him all the. praise and love on him all I wanted to. and not have to worry about oh oh now. we're going to have to have sex you know. like none of that cuz that wasn't. happening we just didn't we didn't have. that chemistry we just didn't have it. yeah I think if Pac. had survived Vegas he and will would. have ended up being really good friends.

you know they would have had a lot to. offer one another and funny. enough will was the only person when I. started dating him Pac never like said. anything if I dated anybody else Pac had. had something to say he didn't think. anybody was good enough which I. understand right but when I started. dating will he didn't say anything which. meant to me in his own way he. approved yeah didn't say anything right.

he didn't say anything which was like. okay not a. word which made me believe he approved. yeah no I think it's it's so beautiful. to reflect on that friendship because I. think it's so hope giving to so many. people who you know sometimes lose out. on those kind of relationships because. we don't see where else it can go oh it. go there's so much value there's so much. value to that and there's the you know. the part in the book where you talk. about how you never got to be there when.

Vegas happened like you weren't there. you hadn't talked for a year I think at. the time what you B yeah we had a big. blow up what would you have said to him. or what would you say to him or what. what what did you want him to know or. what were you so sure that he already. knew and you're thinking to yourself I. just wanted to remind him of this what. would that be I would I didn't have to. remind him of anything he knew it Pac. knew I adored him I have no doubt in my. mind that he left this world knowing.

that not what a great feeling yeah. that's never been the issue for me MH we. did that dance a lot sometimes have. blowups and we were we're both very. stubborn and I'll let people read the. book to yeah that blow up and and what. led to that but um I think sometimes. what sometimes still hurts is that me. feeling feeling like maybe I.

couldn't do enough once he left mhm like. I'm thinking to myself oh my God what. would Pac have done like if it had been. me in a car in Vegas and got you know he. would have rre Havoc so that ego mhm. sometimes comes into play. like just feeling so. helpless that he was taken in that way. and there was nothing. I could do to this day that gnaws at me.

you know for what it's worth I really. believe that the way you write and we by. the way everyone who's listening and. watching there is so much more to unpack. in the book which I highly recommend you. read as you're going through it and. you'll come to this part but I I really. believe that the way you honor and. appreciate and respect your dear friend. in the book is really beautiful and. special and it's like it's hard to. describe as well but it's a really. really wonderful lens into a human that.

is so you know Larger than Life in so. many ways and I wanted to also kind of. there's been so many misconceptions. about our relationship because people. are like you know have a difficult time. understanding that he and I could. actually be friends but just wanted to. give people such just an Insight on you. know the beauty of our friendship that I. just cherish to this day so very much. you know and I wanted to give people a. different Outlook just.

of who he was and I'll say who he is. because he still exists like you know. but so I really wanted that to come. across yeah yeah well we got to. understand him I think through you. through the perspective. of not a rapper not a icon not a but a a. human and a friend and like what he was. like as a friend and I think that that's. a very intimate way to to know about. someone so I love that I I wanted to. talk to you about you you mentioned.

there you were like will was the only. person that Park didn't Tupac didn't. have an issue with yeah that I and I. love that and and you know how much I. mean you know I've always been open. about it and we've talked about it and I. I met will through you and it's like I. I've always said that when I met you and. the whole family and and when I met him. you were everything and more all of you. are everything and more right uh and. what I mean by that is everything I'd. wanted you to be plus so much more right.

uh and and he's that too in in so many. ways and I think that it's really. interesting because when you're talking. about in The Book of like I I love the. conversation you refer to when you're. like your your mom's like you know get. him off the phone like she that's one of. her moments being Adrian yes exactly but. what I love about it the most is that it. is true that from the outside as you set. it up looks like a fairy tale and and. and it felt like that and what I find.

really fascinating about this again and. again and again pretty much with. everyone is that there is no fairy tale. love anywhere on planet Earth on no. planet and and you know in our own. little way I always talk about this with. me and rad too it's like we'll do an. interview together where rad will tell. me all the challenges she has with me. and she'll be crying and upset and then. everyone in the comments will still be. like you guys are so cute and I'm like. no no no we. we're not trying to say we're cute like. this is like real issu like real stuff.

that you know we've talked about it. obviously you spend a ton of time in me. and R and so I I think for me what's. really interesting is that yes from the. outside when you see two incredible. actors performers artists Talent get. together you're like wow Powerhouse. couple everyone projects their. expectations uh you have beautiful. adorable kids you know like Jaden's. acting and he's he's like the cutest. thing in the world and Willow too it's. like it's so interesting because we also. we like to build up our dreams in people.

and we like to project our dreams onto. people because I think as viewers it. makes us believe that it's possible yeah. and we live through people and we Aspire. for it not that we Aspire for the. success and the fame but that we Aspire. for the like well if they can get it. right then I can get it right and it's. not it's an innocent absolutely belief. that we all have it's not a we all have. that inside of us so we have we all have. this I know that I had that like you. know I was I was searched it the other.

day and it's a term it's Disney princess. syndrome and I was like I've had Disney. princess syndrome like myself like a ton. of times and it's so fascinating to me. for anyone who doesn't get the reference. the point is that every Disney princess. is always looking for her prince oh yeah. and I would say regardless of gender. that's true like I feel that way where. I've been looking for my princess or my. win or my award or whatever it may be. and I wanted you to walk us through like.

what were the stages and how would you. define the stages as you do in this book. your stages of your relationship with. will because I feel that that's the part. that people get blurry because they're. looking at it through their lens but you. both have been so clear about stages of. your relationship internally which I. actually think is the hardest part and. so how would you define the stages of. your partnership with will that help. people understand like the conversations. that you're having behind the scenes.

from like being madly in love to you. know yeah wo the stages of getting to. the most. authentic and this. difficult so I just want to honor that. for a second like it's almost like. talking. about. relationships and the Romanticism around. the idea of relating is. sometimes as detrimental as talking.

about politics and God because it's such. a it's such a staple in how people look. at marriage and. relating. culturally right and all of the. Romanticism around it and will and I. have. been what I would consider kind of the. relationship goals MH. this romanticized. version I had.

to in my. own relationship with. will dissolve my. Romanticism around what I thought. marriage would be should be and honestly. we really never had what I would. consider the ideal honeymoon stage you. know even though you do have the. honeymoon stage but our relationships. started with with some challenges you. know because he was divorcing and then.

our life just took off like. a rocket ship we just took on this huge. life in our early 20s and where his. Focus was really about hey I want to be. the biggest movie star in the. world and I knew that going into our. relationship and I knew that would be. sacrifices with that and then along the. way and I talk about this in the book.

just having those different perspectives. mhm and really trying to figure out how. to reconcile those different. perspectives and also deal with a lot of. challenges so I think one of the things. that I address in the book in regards to. you know people thinking that we've had. an open marriage and we haven't had an. open marriage I talk. about starting off. pretty much early on in. our marriage of having the need for.

transparency and that is a big. difference between hey you can do. whatever you want you know versus is. like hey here we are very young people. in this place called Hollywood that has. a lot of Temptation let's have a. partnership around this let's be very. realistic of what what this life is if. we're talking about we're going to be.

together forever and ever and ever that. means there's going to be some. temptations that come up let's be in. Partnership and let's talk about that I. didn't go into my marriage. like I am going to. be my husband is never ever ever going. to look at anybody else you know what I. mean like I I just I am just a realist. in a lot of ways MH I know what it's. been like for. me right when I first came to Hollywood.

and I could go into the clubs and have. anybody just the the level of just like. that just the the like you know what I. mean it's just like you just yeah. intoxicating it's so. intoxicating that's one now what I do. believe that what people don't know that. I talk about in the book a lot is that. there been several breakups between will. and I will talks about it my 40th.

birthday which was a big breakup for us. we were actually looking towards. separating and divorcing and we. separated the world just didn't know. then we had a. Reconciliation and then 2016 came and we. had the ultimate break but the world. didn't know mhm and I think that that's. where some of the misconception about. having an open marriage came into play.

because we were living lives as single. people mhm and the world didn't know. over the span of 12 Years of just trying. to figure out this thing called love and. marriage between will and I it's been a. trip and I think that even with that. entanglement piece which I talk about. extensively in the book how I played a. part in the misconception of that. Narrative of allowing myself to be. portrayed as an adulteress allowing.

myself to be portrayed as someone that. had betrayed will and that wasn't the. case we broke up in. 2016 he went on to live a life as a. single man I went on to live a life as a. single woman and then when we had the. talk at the red table I was going to go. to the red table by myself MH to talk. about the entanglement MH MH but will. decided he wanted to come with me and we.

were going to then tell the world hey we. haven't been together and this happened. during that time well when we got to the. table will wasn't. ready he wasn't ready he wasn't ready. for the world to know that I had to. respect that well I didn't have to but I. wanted to but I was ready I was ready to. let go of the persona had created around. myself that had put me in a golden cage.

I wanted to let that go and so I had to. stay on my journey I had to stay on my. path while also. respecting that will wasn't ready so I. said you know. what this is my mess. anyway I'm going to take this. heat because guess what the heat is. coming either way whether when we decide. to get divorced when we decide to. separate whatever what whatever this is. my practice. run strip It.

Down Let It Go Jada and then let's see. what's left I didn't have to put that. particular show out but I had. already gotten myself so ready for that. Journey for myself and to me that was. moving closer to my. freedom then holding. back and creating a narrative that I. felt like was just going to entrap me. more and as difficult as it's been.

because the irony is I spent so much of. our relationship having this open. communication between the between he and. I creating this beautiful friendship of. authenticity and um. honesty and so to be labeled as someone. who had cheated on him was devastating. but it also so put me in a. position.

where I had to learn how to let go of. what anybody thought about me and really. be T toes down on understanding who I. am and being able to walk in that no. matter what anybody thought about me but. I needed that Journey for. myself you know it's kind of like that. is the walk when they talk about walking. on hot coals it's like creating that.

level of when we talk about that inner. world work and creating that like strong. Foundation within yourself of knowing. exactly who you are no matter what other. people think about you I mean I've. gotten that to a certain degree and so. that was a very challenging moment and I. talk about it in the book because I feel. like so many people are challenged in. that way of like how can I just walk in.

this world MH and be okay with myself no. matter what and I talk about the journey. you know really extensively in the book. um but there have been so many. misconceptions about my. relationship with will but I think that. everybody suffers misconceptions once. again whether you're head of the PTA and. your husband's that doctor and you're. the lawyer you know what I mean and.

you're you're like the Crum crem of your. friend group or you know of your. community and so everybody's expecting. you to have a certain kind of. marriage and marriage is a journey MH. you know and it's a journey towards. learning how to love. yourself and learning how to love your. partner and there's not one way to do it. and everybody I think we do that Journey.

a real disservice of trying to make it. this cookie cut thing like no no no you. can only do it this. way and it's like each and every person. in their relationship they have to look. at what their relationship is calling. for in regards. to what is needed to get your marriage. to the love to the strength to the.

understanding to the. friendship and that unconditional place. and the unfortunate part is that we. think once we get married like somebody. is readymade they know how to love you. even though they don't know how to love. themselves they don't know they don't. know how to love themselves but you. better know how to love me yeah I want. to highlight because I think it's often. it can be missed at least is you know. when you had that conversation on red. table talk it would have been so easy to.

not have that conversation publicly. because people would have their rumors. yeah it would blow over and then it. would be. over and I'm only raising this. because I know how much for you it was. part of the work you were doing yeah and. that's why I'm raising this because I. think what's really interesting is that. when someone's trying to do deep inner. healing work yeah actually more often. than not their external way will not. make sense oh yeah for sure because it.

literally looks like you're setting. yourself up to fail yeah because when. you're really trying to dismantle the. ego or you're really trying to. deconstruct the false identities that we. all build up me included all of us like. when when that is there and it's being. deconstructed someone would look at you. be like why would you do that like why. why do I need to know what and really I. just want to highlight and I want you to. share about that that the intention was.

healing the intention wasn't to save. face or the int and I know this cuz we. were talking about it the intention. wasn't to yeah wasn't to save face and. it surely wasn't and I need people to. know I didn't ask Will to come to the. table yeah yeah that was not my idea MH. will wanted to come to the table CU he. didn't want me to be there by myself he. had all the best intentions yeah. and got there and was I think his trauma.

response kicked in like I'm not ready so. many people were like don't do this and. I'm like nah I'm doing it for myself for. myself because I want to live because. I'm ready I don't. want this. whole thing. anymore this whole Jada will I'm done. with that it was part of the work that I. was ready for and it was what I needed.

and everybody's in different places in. their Journey also that's also a dynamic. I had to look at Within Myself in. regards to so it's was two things. there's this healthy J is like tear it. down I want I don't want that Persona. anymore tear my ego down and there was. this other part of me that was like oh. my God I need to protect you know he's. not ready you know he's not ready my you. know codependency kicks in and I go this. is what I do I'm the. Martyr I can do the Martyr thing so once.

again it's both things it's. healing like I'm. ready like I'm ready for I'm ready for. the tear down and then this martyr. that's like and I want to make sure will. as long as you're okay I'm okay that's. part of my relationship with my mother's. addiction that I brought. into my relation relationship with will. that created a certain Dynamic Within.

Myself in my relationship with him that. I also needed to get my eyes on that I. didn't. see that that needed to be healed as. well without that. table without that. moment I would have never recognized. that as painful as it was for people to. watch existential disappointment. in a collective I'm so sorry I wish it. could have happened another way I'm.

sorry that it had to be so messy in. front of everybody I'm. sorry. but I needed that what I got to clear up. what I got to clean up what I got to see. and to be able to sit here with you. today and embrace it. all and have so much acceptance for. myself for all of the choices I've made. and people ask me. if you had to do it over again would you. do it any different I don't think so.

honestly like knowing and talking to you. I found it to be so courageous and so. full of strength. because it was putting yourself on the. spot like in no other. way and I can't even begin. to understand how uncomfortable it is I. only can from the conversations we had. like well you were right there with me J. but the level of discomfort that you. were willing to put yourself in yeah in.

order to let go of an identity in order. to let go of a perception like I'm I'm. I'm saying it in these words because I. just want everyone who's listening. watching just to to think about it for a. second like imagine you had to go in. front of everyone you. knew your family your friends your. school whoever it is that you're around. your people at work and you had to share. a. secret that wasn't a secret between you. and the person you're with but was a.

secret to them just think about that. whatever that secret is Right everyone. has Secrets everyone has something you. know and to do that requires just so. much courage and strength and it also. shows the I think you were just. apologizing that it was so messy I also. think that it is uncomfortable like. growth is uncomfortable and like letting. go of shedding identities is. uncomfortable and I'm not comparing my. experience to yours at all because it's. not the same in any way but I I'm trying.

to explain how like a tiny PDA like my. kind of like version of it is still as. big I remember the day I told my friends. and my family and my teachers that I. know longer thought I could be a monk. and it sounds so small like now looking. back but at the time as someone who had. like I was dedicating my life you've met. my teachers you know I'm dedicating my. life I'm like doing this big thing and. then all of sudden I come to the. conclusion that this thought in my head. of I'm not good enough I'm not a monk.

I'm not meant to be like this isn't my. path I have other desires whatever it. may be I I think I should get married. you know all this stuff and you're so. you feel so much shame yes around the. fact that you don't you're not good. enough and what are people going to say. yeah and even for me that was just my. temple community and my friends and my. family and even then it was like as if. someone was ripping my ego out my chest. yeah because that's what it feels like. it feels like an extraction of oh.

absolutely you know not that I'm ego. less now but that that was such a big. way of crushing that part of my. ego and so I just want people to think. about it through that perspective and. I'm and I'm saying it because I think. that we all go through periods in our. life where people misunderstand us we. all go through periods in our life where. the people we thought loved us and. adored us will now be let down we all go. through experiences in our life where we. have to let let go of someone that we. thought we were or what people thought. we were and those are going to be the.

hardest most painful times and actually. if we can learn to be graceful instead. of when our friends are getting divorced. and we're like did you hear so we had. that couple of people in my my community. back at home just got divorced the whole. Community is talking about it yeah and. I'm just like guys like we have no idea. what was going on for the last 10 20. years let's give them Grace cuz you. never know when that could be you you. have no idea when it could be you you. know it's we're so it's so easy to to.

judge and throw stones at anyone and. everyone like you know and I just really. feel that if we have the ability to be. graceful and compassionate when other. people are doing that yeah we'll. actually do it with ourselves and. because we're hard on ourselves y we're. hard on others we're hard on others. we're hard on ourselves and I just for. me I just want to see more people be. graceful for themselves and for others. because there's there's so much Human.

Experience wrapped up in it so yeah. that's my hope too you know that people. can have more grace for themselves but I. tell you I think one of. the saving factors was that you know. there were no secrets between will and I. yeah yeah yeah and there were no secrets. between my kids and I yes so the fact. that my family. was absolutely aware of the entire. Journey it was a Saving Grace for me.

whatever the world wants to think is. whatever you know will knows he was not. betrayed and my kids know that I did not. betray their father and that to me all. that matters yeah but it was quite a. exercise of having to walk in the world. like that you know having people think. that that's what happened just having um. that exercise in that way has been such.

a healing factor for me of just the. level of self-love the level of. self-worth that I. have because of what that experience has. offered me and I'm not I'm not saying. that anybody else should do it on that. level yeah you know but what I am saying. is that there there are ego deaths that. have to occur in order to get to a more. authentic place of self-worth and.

self-love and I want to talk about the. the little gurus as you call them in the. book we start with Trey who you know. this book is dedicated to your daughter. and the daughters of the people that. read it and to your sons yeah and to the. sons of the people that read it and I. wonder what is it that you think you've. learned from. Trey that you've been taught by Jaden. and that you've been taught by Willer in. your journey with them all because you. have such a whenever I've seen you with.

them it's it's you have such a deep. beautiful Rich relationship with your. kids we were talking about that earlier. yeah i' would love to know what is it. that each of them have taught you trait. he has such an enormous heart and I. think what I love about Trey is his. ability. to meet people join people where they. are his ability to join me he has a way. of seeing the best in people no matter.

what the best in circumstances no matter. what and even in his most challenging. times challenging. relationships having the. willingness to see the person's Spirit. versus. personality and he's always reminded me. of. that you know Mom you know that person. you know what I mean. like you know what Trey you right he and. I have kind of been walking parallel.

we'll look over at each other and go I. see you and he goes I see you you know. you know what I mean it's so you know. we're the two in the family that's. really. been on a intense walk spiritually and. he has so much perseverance in regards. to understanding God finding his way. standing life I don't know if you know. he's just such a he's such a light you.

know so iron sharpens iron he'll walk in. the kitchen he go mom look at me what. what do you think I'm feeling. today you know what I mean or he'll look. at me and go wow you know you're you're. like bright what's going on with you. like he can just see me yeah and he. could see people you know and I'll be. like wow how did you see that yeah this. is happening this is he's like really. you you know and he's he's just he's. just such a light he's just such a joy. and so he just is always reminding me to.

look. for the best in people and I just adore. him which why he's a bonus. you you know I love and then Willow oh. she's such a fireball I mean she she is. like the mirror of the fire of my. soul when I tell you she is the mirror. of that like I get to see myself in her.

in so many ways what I love most about. Willow is that she. is to the point you know what I mean she. is. like she doesn't have a whole lot of. play play MH she's just like no no she. just hits it on the mark where sometimes. I can be very flowery you know very. gentle and I also love how she loves me. MH she teaches me a lot about love she.

teaches me a lot about when I talked. about being able to join like she. teaches me a lot about how to join her. and how to join others in ways that I'm. not used to I know how to join others in. ways that I'm used to but me having to. learn how to join her in a certain. manner I've had to come out of my. comfort zone and really be like oh man. I'm very deficient here and her patience.

with me with that deficiency she's so. patient with me she's like it's okay Mom. you know sometimes I don't need you to. talk to me Mom just hold me I'm like oh. that's all you want me to do you just. want that's all I'm not used to that you. know I don't come from a family where. affection you know that we don't we. don't hug each other and hold each other. that's not what we did but Willow yeah. Ma I don't need you. advice I just want to sit here hold me. while I cry and then I have to learn how.

to I've had to learn she's taught me how. to hold tears and really be able to join. with those tears and not Rebel and you. know like have them repel because then. they bring up my tears and so she's. learned she's taught me how to love my. tears too you know those places within. myself that I haven't always been. willing to go you know and now I cry all. the time you know and I call it the. thawing because for so long. I wasn't allowed I didn't allow myself. to cry you know so she's taught me that.

and then there's. Jaden oh man Jaden he's just walking. Joy I mean he comes in the room it's. just like. Jaden you know he's just walking Joy but. he was like that when I carried him I. was the happiest I had ever been in my. life when I was pregnant with Jaden and. I think that had a lot to do with. the energy that he carries he has the. capacity to love.

everything and that. is. difficulty challenging. people challenging. situations he has the capacity to love. it all and find the beauty in it and I'm. I'm talking about sincerely and it is. like that's a god-given gift that's not. you can't teach that and so he just I. was sitting I you know I was just. talking to him to the other day and I. was just like oh I was reading this book.

emotionally immature parents oh and I. was like Jaden you got to read this book. your mother's has been an emotionally. immature parents right I said you got to. read this book and he said um you know. what. Ma he said things from afar can look a. certain way but when you put a. microscope up up on something and you. look at it close up he was like it is. such a weird.

shape weird beautiful shapes of things. but you get to see the intricacies of it. and it's so much more and that's what. you are to me you're like this beautiful. intricate organism that I love so much. don't ever apologize to me. again that's so you know what I mean and. that's just how his mind works you know. and he comes over and he hugs me and he.

kisses me on my forehead you know what. I'm saying and he's like you you gave. birth to me that don't ever apologize to. me you know and he's like and I'm not. reading that book I said I'm gonna get. you the book anyway I need to read. it you know I'm always apologizing to my. kids about all kinds of things I think. it's so important for parents to. apologize say sorry you know I've gotten. in the habit every little like if I. misunderstand something or if there's. like this like little glip you know.

what I didn't quite get that then I'm so. sorry I apologize I'm going to do better. next time with that and thank you for. your patience I think it's important you. know I wish my father had apologized to. me more my mom apologizes too I actually. learned that from her she's apologized a. lot and I actually said the same thing. to her now that I'm thinking about it. stop apologizing to. me but isn't that that those are the. best relationships where someone does.

something yeah and the other person is. like it's fine yeah and that's what kind. of it's It's that relationship. where internally you're happy you heard. it but you know you didn't need to but. the person still felt the need to say it. and there it it creates so much Clarity. and you know when I told Willow you were. coming on today she sent a little no. that I want to read no uh because I was.

I was talking to her about it and I was. talking to her about the book and so she. sent this little note that I want to. read to you if that's okay oh my God let. me get my napkin so she said this is. from. Willow and Willow if I don't read it as. you would in your amazing voice then. please forgive me I'm I'm also. apologizing to you in advance mom I am. incomprehensibly proud of you and all of. the inner excavation you have done. during the writing of your. book there were many times during the.

process where you would read me sections. and Deep Emotions would come up for us. both learning from you through learning. about you is one of the biggest joys of. my life you never cease to inspire me. with how wide you've opened your heart. not only to the immense joys of life but. also to the deep uncertainties and. shadows with equal gratitude and. Grace you have shown me true tenderness. and true strength come from the same.

place within and that is something that. I aspire to show others thank you for. loving me I'm so grateful for. you and uh the guru that's the little. Guru right there there it is she loves. you so much and they all obviously love. you so much but when I read that and. when I was reflecting on it was just and. as me and rad always talk about this. because we've watched you and Willow so. many times.

together and it has been so inspiring to. us to see that connection you both have. and the openness you have with your kids. and how well they understand you and you. know as you were just saying you're. always apologizing but that's what. they're seeing yeah they see that. because you're so willing to share with. them yeah I don't I don't keep Secret. from my kids I've let them see my. deepest flaws and I think that's.

important I mean and not in the way. that we have to be careful with that too. but I mean just as far as like it's okay. to be human not being afraid to show my. humanness CU that's the one thing with. my mother that I have so much gratitude. for that I could see her as a human. being and my relationship with you know. my mother being an addict and me being. able to relate to her. as not just my mother but as a a woman.

you know as a person and I think that. was one aspect that I felt like I really. needed to bring into my relationship. with my kids for them to see me as a. person we're in this together yeah it. comes across when I've witnessed it it's. it's the most beautiful thing I could. only ever dream. that when Ry and I are able to do that. that you know that we you will have what. you have it's it's really special it's. remarkable to watch in in practice and I.

and I mean that and you know the message. says it all. but Jay I wanted you know I throughout. this book and and even in this interview. today I think I was going to save this. to say it later but I'm going to say it. now I've been. sharing spirituality with people in. different ways since I was 18 years old. and. and I was. so young and immature then in my.

spirituality and I still am today and. that will always continue and I've just. been fortunate to sit at the feet of. incredible teachers and mentors and so. any realization I've had earlier than I. should have had it is because of sitting. with elders and you know sitting with. the teachers I've introduced you to and. I've rarely met someone who's as eager. for healing as you m I don't think I've. met a family that's. more where healing is the top priority.

right and it's such an interesting thing. to perceive in someone because you can. tell by someone's language and when. their eyes light up and their body. language changes as to what they are. motivated by and ever since I met you. from the first day we met backstage. Green Room for red table yeah talk. Series 2 launch Day event I was getting. to host an interview you G and.

Willow and I remember you'd ask me like. what did you learn as a. monk and I'd said to you I was I was. giving to you the what I did learn as. practices but I wasn't getting to the. root of it so I was explaining the. practices like gratitude and meditation. and mindfulness. and service and you were you were kind. of just like oh that's cool like you. know you and then i' said to you because.

I felt a inner voice say that I should. and it was truly guided from within and. I said to you I learned how to love God. and that. was potentially the first time I'd even. said that in that way to. someone and you just like your whole. body language and your eyes and. everything just changed and everyone. else was late so we were just talk. talking and you were like I want to. learn how to love God too and you'd. obviously already been on that Journey.

for decades like you know and you talk. about in the book where you started with. the ethical Society right you know that. had been a journey that had been a part. of your journey forever but it was so. interesting to me to meet someone and an. entire family who is more focused on. healing and growth and and God in their. own way in your in your own language in. your own in your own ways than than. anything else I've never we've never had. a conversation that steers too far away. from that from any of those things which. which says so and and we have fun and we.

have a good time and everything but but. that and the reason I raised that is. because I also saw that when you were. talking about Oscar's night in the book. you referred to as the holy slap and the. holy joke and you've always looked at. everything through the. lens of how is this bringing me closer. to the Divine I remember one. conversation we had about the feminine. Divine and I'll never forget it. because we at this point we'd been doing.

we've been talking twice a week for like. a year and a half or something. and we were talking about a specific. aspect of the divine feminine uh which. is often left out or forgotten or or. hidden i' had never seen anyone respond. in a way. so sincere clearly and genuinely to a. vision of God as you did and you said.

we're tears in your eyes you're like. I've been looking for this God for 25. years and I remember just going like I I. could just see the the genuine and the. sincerity in your eyes and I was just. like wow like I hope I can love like. that one day like that's actually what I. felt like as it was so inspiring and I. know that I've got. closer to Divinity through our work and. that's because of your.

seeking and you've pulled me closer to. the Divine through your seeking which. you've given me the greatest gift like. for years and years and years ever since. I've known you and it's your ability. to to look for that and so I I wanted to. talk to you about you know I think when. when it all went down on Oscar's night. the and you talk about this in the book. and so I want to leave everyone to read. about it in full but the but the. perception was that you were so offended.

that you'd kind of urge this action. which. is bizarre in and of itself for so many. reasons that you lay out in the book but. I want to hear from you like what were. you actually hurt by about the condition. that you were going. through and in that gap between what we. saw yeah and what we did didn't get to. see which everyone had their own theory. on what was actually your thought space.

or where were you let me start with that. was a really layered. moment let me start with also. that there was so. much that people didn't know in regards. to what was happening with will and I at. that time and I I will leave for people. to get the book yeah absolutely because. there's so much much history mhh and you. go into break it down I break it down H. why I did not exactly so much history.

that I think would give people a lot. more context to understand that. moment let me also say that I know that. was a difficult moment to watch because. of history that Chris and I had um in. regards to the 2016 Oscar so. white and I'll let people read to get up. to speed on that but when I first saw. Chris's name come on stage come up as. one of the presenters I said oh boy I.

looked to will and I was like he's not. going to be able to help himself this is. going to be something I was like I knew. I already knew and I was like okay so. will have been going back and forth. backstage all night so when Chris said. what he said I looked to will as if to. say see I knew it right um and then I. was like oh boy that's not cool to like.

talk about a medical condition that. people there's nothing you can like it's. it's it's not something that can be. cured right and that how many stories I. had heard of people you know young. people committing suicide and the shame. and just how many people suffer and you. don't even know like once I had the. condition and I saw how many people. around me had it I was like all these. years I didn't know and people Express. the shame the level of Shame they had.

around. it I'm going to be. okay as far as my condition as you can. see my hair is growing back that's what. it does it'll grow it'll fall out it'll. grow back again pieces of my eyebrows. will fall out grow back you know I'm. having a good moment right now my. alipa is not as. Extreme as most people who are dealing. with that. condition and I just felt like that's. not okay so I wasn't I wasn't upset.

about me and I I don't remember actually. rolling my eyes I think what people saw. was me looking at will going I told you. I knew he was going to do that and oh. boy here we go again mhm yeah that was. kind of the yeah you know oh here we go. but I wasn't upset about me it really. wasn't it wasn't about me it was just. all the stories I had heard and that I. continue to hear about people who have. suffered from this condition and.

obviously you didn't want what happened. to happen like I think that I'm just. clarifying I know that I'm just. clarifying it of course it wasn't like I. looked at will and said you know you. know I know but and that's the kind of. you know those are the kind of moments. of context that I think I lost sometimes. listen there was an aspect of that that. I was as shocked as anyone because will. and I hadn't been referring to each. other as husband and wife since. 2016 I was like wife me that's right I. am I'm okay that's right I am your wife.

and that kicked in I'm like yep here we. are in that moment that that did happen. I was like we came together we're. leaving together you know that part of. me. that put everything else aside and it's. like this is going to be something I. need to make sure Will's okay we're. going to get through this I had no idea. that that was none whatsoever and I came. as family I actually didn't go to the.

Oscars as Will's wife and I know for. people that's weird but what was going. on behind the scenes will and I had been. said like we weren't living as husband. and wife since 2016 I was happy he asked. me to. go I was happy he wanted to share that. moment with me still and I was going to. be by his side and I think also people. weren't really aware. of the journey that had taken place. after emancipation as far as Will's.

concern tot it was a really difficult. movie and. afterwards he decided to get into. therapeutic settings and he asked me to. join him because a lot of stuff was. coming up a lot of stuff from his past. childhood stuff I think people didn't. understand that there was a history. there between he and Chris as well so. there was a lot of context that people. just didn't have yeah yeah you know and. I'm going to tell you something else I. understand why people thought it was me. I understand why people blame me I don't.

think it's right but I understand you. know considering the narratives that. were out there that I was part of I have. to take responsibility for that and I. talk about that in the book you know me. being the adulterous wife that had you. know pushed will to his limit I get it. so I couldn't even take any of it. personally and I had to put myself in. the shoes of the audience and go if I. was looking at this how would what would. I say I probably would have said the. same thing and then that made me really.

look at like oh man like culturally. we're always blaming women like I had to. really go deep into that why do we do. that you know that men of. power that have so much of their ownness. in their life but when something bad. happens it's a woman's fault you know. what I mean it's so interesting you know. and I had I really started to examine. that but more so just looking at that. narrative and taking responsibility and.

at the same time there was love and. compassion for Chris there was that oh. yeah you know I talk about that in the. book I've worked with Chris I know Chris. am I always a fan of Chris's stage work. no but Chris has a person he's a sweet. guy there was a moment when Chris came. down to the end of the. stage and you have to understand I'm in.

deep confusion I don't know what's going. on because of me understanding the. context of Will and I behind the scenes. what just happened on the. stage I'm worried about will I've. never seen that from him I don't know. what's going. on but Chris comes to the end of. stage and he looks at me deeply.

sincerely and he says Jada I meant no. harm and it was so sincere in his eyes. I'm like that's the Chris I know that's. the Chris I've experienced that's the. Chris that a lot of people don't get to. see because people just see Chris on. stage doing what Chris does but I'm glad. I had that moment because with. everything else that transpired. afterwards you know his Netflix certain. comments and all of that I could hold on. to that sincere moment so when we talk.

about looking past personality when. somebody has had that opportunity to. show you their heart to show you their. Spirit that's the truth not all the. other stuff that hurt misunderstanding. confusion might bring up so where my. feelings. hurt when I heard what was happening as. far as the Netflix of course my feelings. were hurt but I didn't take it. personally because I I can see his eyes.

right now as I'm talking to. you and that's the. truth of Chris's Spirit Jade I meant no. harm I talk about it in the book it's. like you got to have Grace when we're. hurt I'm not saying that I. agree with how it was handled I don't. agree with. it but I.

understand and so my hope is that there. will. be such a beautiful opportunity for. healing and my hope is that that will. occur as time everything needs time you. have two beautiful men who. have. hurts and who have hurt one another but. they're both beautiful men and as I said.

before my hope is that these two very. capable beautiful men at some time. figure out how. to. resolve this whole thing of the present. and of the past you know cuz life is. about healing man it's like Life's too. short and you know sometimes. conflicts can really amplify love they. really can I know it has for me and. that's why I call that chapter the holy.

slap the holy joke the holy slap and the. holy lessons. because through all of this conflict. that I've been in the midst of all this. misunderstanding that I've been in the. midst. of it's helped amplify love within my. heart it's made my heart more. elastic hate and I've really had been. able to understand how hate has a. ceiling you know hate. aggression um wow you know it it has a.

ceiling whereas love is. a wow but it takes so much. courage and it's so easy to go into. aggression it's so easy to go into you. know hateful feelings it's. easy and I can't blame anybody for doing. it and I have no judgment cuz guess what. been there done that you know J when uh. you started today you said that you know.

this is your journey from being. unlovable to trying to find love again. and it's really it's really the true. story of all of our Lives of just we're. all on that journey of being. unlovable thinking that if someone loves. us we'll be fine then thinking that if. we get or achieve this will be fine then. thinking if I love this person perfectly. then I'll be fine and it's like we we. keep filling in that yeah the sentence.

between unlovable with to lovable with. so many versions and I think what this. book this Memoir does so beautifully. honestly is you show us every version. that you tried to fit yes in that Gap. right every version every version that. you tried to fit in that Gap You're just. showing us the reality of what that. comes with like the pain that comes with. trying to fit everything into that Gap. and I appreciate you for doing that.

because it's it's hard to not turn every. story into a fairy tale ending or. perfect ending and there isn't that here. and I think that that's what truly makes. it relatable it's what truly makes it. applicable wherever we are on our. Journeys on that spectrum and anyone. else's and it's why I said that I I. really hope that anyone who's on that. Journey themselves will pick this book. up and be able to notice which Gap.

they're trying to fill it with yeah and. come back in if that sounds if that. feels right if that that's really right. it's like because you're right it's like. all these it's like okay that didn't. work let me go over here let me try this. and then it just nope you got you you. got to heal. you and you got to really get with a. power higher than yourself and I want to. thank you for really being so helpful in.

so many ways Jay in regards to you talk. about I mean we've been on such a. beautiful journey together in that way. of. just learning and deepening our. relationship with God individually. together. um I so appreciate you for that I mean. you have been so instrumental in that. way I genuinely can't take any credit. like I'm not even I'm not even that's.

not and that's not even me being that's. not me being humble or modest it's it's. me just saying that in the same way as. you feel people came into your life to. you know accelerate that journey and. reconnect you like you did the same for. me and radii like in a in a physical way. you all of you have given us so much. family we've celebrated so many. thanksgivings together we've we've had. you over for sa every you know for days. and days and weeks and months and years. and you know you've given us so much and. I I don't I think that's what I think.

this book does I think that's what we. will do for our friendships is that I. got the opportunity to build a. friendship with you that was based on. nothing else but healing. growth and the Divine and that kind of. relationship just has a different energy. like it's really special when there's. nothing else there's nothing else that. yeah would have made our paths cross. yeah we don't work together we don't. have we don't do business together we.

don't have the same friends like you. know but but but this this right I'm so. grateful to watch someone do the hardest. work and I'm going yeah I need to do it. too you know like and I admire it. because I see it from that perspective. with you and I always have that. you're not trying to take the easy way. out you're not you're not just looking. to fix it with a Band-Aid you're not. just hoping it will go away you're like.

no I'm gonna sit there with him that is. just I just that is such an. uncomfortable place naturally for 99% of. people yeah I'm in a all of you because. of it and I always will be and I'm just. I'm I'm so happy that you decided to put. it into writing because. this isn't about clarifying it isn't. about people getting a sense of what. really happened that's not what it's.

about it's about how can we sit through. that discomfort that we're going through. in our life and and choose healing and. growth even when it's the hardest thing. and the farthest thing away from us. listen if things get cleared up from. reading this book great but that's not. the purpose cuz I I actually don't think. you can you can't yeah yeah you you. can't it'll just be more stirring up. whatever other things right. um and it's really which is why it's. even more important to really be able to. have a strong sense of.

self right and not to be looking for. external. things to be to. substitute what you have to have inside. in order to know your place in this. world this place is. crazy and to try to make the material. space the material world align in a way. for your comfort that's it can't start. there it has to start within.

yourself that how you. see and what you attract to you is in. alignment with what is happening here. right but looking for the world to buoy. you up or accept you in a certain manner. no yeah like I said before this can just. give some little breadcrumbs to help. people get to a sense of self-worth that. gives them that Comfort no matter what. is. happening you know if you've brought.

freaking chocolate chip cookies with. peanuts in. them to the school. Fair even though kids might have. allergies and the school them wrote you. a letter and said don't. bring products with peanuts and you made. them and you right you made them with. love yeah and now the mom group is on. your neck. you can be okay you can be okay with. your victories and you can be okay with.

the inevitable challenges that life is. going to deliver it's okay either. way you're okay you're worthy you're. lovable peanuts and all so Jada one of. the things that you mentioned was that. you went to the Oscars as family. yeah but not as a wife yeah and I wanted. to ask you how do you define the status.

of your relationship now. and what is it like you know right now. of course we've had it's been an intense. two years and we've really. been doing some deep healing together. and that's why I was saying before the. idea of. how just really disruptive sit. situations can. amplify love in a certain manner because. it kind of forces you to have to dive a.

little deeper that's what we've been. doing we've just been growing together. and see what happens then see what grows. from there you know but like I said in. the book it's like we have this. beautiful. friendship. and we really look at our marriage as. being. the Cornerstone of family we're both. kind of coming up with different.

definitions of what marriage means for. us we're still figuring all of that out. yeah but the beautiful part is that. there's been some really deep healing. going on yeah I mean you know that I. mean at the end of the day that's what. it's about marriage is so much about. growth. like really learning how to grow. emotionally like emotional. maturity spiritual.

maturity and there's this spiritual bond. there I mean we've tried our best to get. away from each other I mean I mean our. best and we just don't want to. so we are defining it the way that works. for us. and I think getting comfortable with not. being concerned. about what anybody else thinks about it.

we have this life partnership and every. day we're trying to figure out what that. means you've both talked about how you. feel like you're a mirror for each other. yeah and when I've spoken to will as. well it's like he feels like you're the. person who knows him to his core. absolutely and he know and he knows you. to your core like you know everything. yeah that potentially there is to know. about each other and you're obviously. still learning yeah what's really.

interesting about that is some people. would say well why not just get divorced. yeah everybody's always like why don't. you just get divorced and it's like. that's like quitting I don't think. there's any person that could embrace. the best and the worst of me and be able. be willing to hold space in the way that. will hold space for me in the way that I. hold space for him and I know that most.

people probably go into their. relationship as like you are here to. please me and yeah our relationship. isn't quite. that you know it's like it's more about. there's no greater mirror I could have. then will he doesn't I can't I can't get. around myself just like he can't get. around himself with me and I think that. that's just. been what this has been all about like.

it's been a deep clearing like really. having to look at yourself in ways in. that mirror that sure we talk about this. all the time would it be easier to go. and find somebody else and have a more. pleasing more comfortable relationship. maybe but would that get me to the. person that I really want to be I don't. think so and I'm not saying that. everybody's relationship is supposed to. be that I'm not here to say that I'm.

just saying that that's what my. relationship is that's something I. desire to get to. a a deeper part a more spiritually sound. emotionally. sound and really understand. love. unconditionally and the thing that I've. learned about unconditional love you. can't really understand what. unconditional love in ideal.

circumstances to really get. to what it is to. love yourself and someone else. completely with all that's divine all. that's human all that's perfect and all. that is deeply. flawed and have have full acceptance for. it all I tell you this. is you know marriage is not for the.

faint at heart it's just not and it is. definitely I believe I believe you know. different people get married for. different reasons so I'm not trying to. say why anybody else should be married. but for me the holy path of getting to a. Divine aspect of myself in partnership. with Will and it seems like will wants. the same for himself and it's taken us. you know I mean we got together at what. I was. 23 okay.

23 when I first decided. to commit. myself to will Carol Smith Lord. [Laughter]. Jesus so young so young we were babies. babies trying to figure this out and you. know what's interesting about young. relationships you create these young. patterns that get so like these really. young immature patterns in yourself and.

how you. relate to your partner and then you. create these Dynamics between one. another that it takes a while to like. really be willing to look at that stuff. and dissolve it and let it go and mature. and grow it takes some real like. self-inventory. patience. courage right. because you're breaking down.

everything all your romantic ideas. everything you thought you know. relationship or marriage all your. romantic. fantasies you know. just you know Blow Up in Flames. but it's really been. freeing it's really been freeing to. see what's more. true right I'm not saying that I know. the truth yet I just feel like I'm.

seeing more of what's true you know as. regards to what love and partnership is. about because I was definitely one of. those people that's like you're here to. make me happy and when you don't do it. that's a problem and that and that's a. normal setup that's how we believe. relationships are and you know I've. talked about it before and I I put it. forward in my book this idea that we. think pleasure is The Ultimate Gift of a. relationship but really purification is.

and that's a really tough idea for. anyone including me I like I haven't. perfected that idea for me to wrap my. head around and I can honestly say that. I love rad and you know you you've seen. us both together and everything but the. greatest gift rad gives me is a mirror. and a purification of rad can call out. my ego better than anyone or anything. and I know it's coming from a good place. rad can show me my flaw in the nicest.

most supportive way possible and can. receive it back from me yeah and. then I feel like because of her I'm. trying to be better getting better not. for her that's right for. myself it's almost like the person that. you live with knows you so deeply or the. person that you've seen has seen you in. all. circumstances in all situations knows. you the deepest I would say R knows. whether I woke up and meditated in the. morning like rad knows whether I got.

angry or frustrated at night after a. phone call like rad knows that and if I. use that to my advantage of am I. becoming am I growing but it's such a. hard concept for people to understand. because it's it's so. counterintuitive to the pleasure seeking. mind that we've been conditioned to. Chase and again I'm not saying we. shouldn't have pleasure in relationship. AB that's not the point I'm making I'm. just saying that there's more to it. there's another level there's definitely. more to it and I think we've talked.

about this before you and I as far as. people believing. that romantic love is the highest form. now I believe that romantic love is an. aspect right of a higher form but it I. don't believe that romantic self. romantic love itself is the highest form. right I believe within the highest form. you can have romantic love but that. romantic love is not of the highest.

right and that's all I've. been examining and exploring with Will. and really trying to understand the. power of unconditional love friendship. like there's something about friend ship. familial love that. is. beautiful but when two people can have.

an. agreement around Divine. Love. Like Love of a source greater than. yourself MH that you want to be. connected to and then you decide that. your relationship is going to be. connected to that same source. oh boy now we're on to something now. we're on to something but to think that.

romantic. love can hold all of the difficulties. and challenges alone and I think that's. why so many of us get into these power. struggles and why there's so many. divorces and why that you know just all. of this strife and relationships you. brought up something that was really. important and it's the idea of Rody when. she can kind of pull your coattails with.

love and I think that's it takes a lot. of work to figure that out like to not. be offended when someone shows up. imperfectly and that those are those. kind of. pieces um within relationship like we. feel like people are supposed to come. readymade you walk down the aisle and. it's like he knows how to love me you. know I know how to love him you know and. not making room for that space of growth.

that is inevitable people are going to. mess up people going to do stupid stuff. people going to say stupid stuff now. when it comes to abuse and all of that. that's a different story right but. people who are. willing to learn how to love each other. cuz I really do think that's what. committed relationships about marriage. or. not I'm committed to learning how to. love myself learning how to love you.

right and then learning how to cultivate. this relationship that we. have with that Essence with those. components then that's a beautiful. thing that's what I believe the holy. path of relating is is all about and not. everybody wants that yeah totally you. know some people really just want the. Romantic version of it and that's okay.

too absolutely absolutely that's okay. too you know but um for me. definitely on that path of looking for. something deeper Within Myself. mostly yeah how did you let go of. that desire for romantic love but then. hold on to the friendship because I feel. like that's a journey that is so hard. whether someone stays married or gets. divorced or like like you both are you.

described yourself as best friends yeah. how did you hold on to Friendship being. able to let go of the Mirage that you. had earlier or even not even the Mirage. the reality of what you had earlier as. you talk about in the book you know the. chemistry the spark I think so many of. us are trying to hold on to that but. you've let go of that and then you're. saying but we've held on to the. Friendship the the mirror the work the. growth that sounds like the hard way. through it I think it's how people show. up and people don't always show up.

perfect. clearly but one thing about will and I. we're just not willing to give up yeah. it's like I'm lucky that we just want to. have each other in in one another's life. right you have moments of. disharmony but if if you know that. you're not. willing to not have that person in your. life you know you got to put forth the.

effort and you got to put forth the. work to transform whatever is not. working so we always make the. decision to take that one step closer to. diving more. deeply to learning how to. love and most of the time time it has. more to do with. self-inventory having to go in the. corner and look at oneself and then come.

back and. go I was. tripping whether it's I'm sorry or I had. a. misunderstanding can we look at this now. together because now I've looked at it. in my corner alone and I've seen my. part and I want to talk to to you first. about my. part a b c and d right and then. inevitably usually your partner go well.

you know I could have done such a such a. such and so when you have an agreement. that's really unspoken of like I want. you in my. life and I want to have good times with. you and I love you then that's the. energy that. nurtures and keeps one. willing to just keep working at it so.

there's that deep love and the great. thing is that Will's got a great sense. of. humor you know what I mean he's got a. really good sense of humor so he has a. way of being able to help me get out of. my funk but I'm kind of like you talk. about this a lot with Rody where I kind. of have to take my time like I'm not. always ready to talk right away I need I. need to like sit I need to be with. myself I need to kind of like work. through my thoughts and all of that. where will is always ready to talk yeah.

I like to go deep he likes to get funny. the great thing about him he can go deep. totally absolutely and there are times. that I really like to play and have fun. yeah so we we're like these energetic. Fields you know I'm Earth and he's Sky. you know we are your typical yin and. yang. you know that you know there there's. this great chemistry there between us. that just works and but when it doesn't.

work oh man oh man oh. man you know what I mean those moments. when it's just like ah but I think. that's just inevitable in every. relationship you know and but it just. doesn't look traditional I think that's. the point that's that's the part where. it's like it just doesn't look. traditional it. the trust there's commitment there's. understanding and at the same time it. doesn't look traditional I don't know.

I'm be honest with you there are. aspects of traditional relating that. absolutely. work but I think in this day and age I. don't know too many marriages that are. traditional I really don't everybody is. trying to figure it out M right and I. think everybody's so scared to talk. about all of the different ways that.

they that they're trying to figure it. out I know so many people who are like. married but not living together married. but have decided to have other partners. I know so many people and have for a. long time that are trying marriage in so. many different forms. and my whole thing is figure it out for. youh marriage is not a cookie cutout.

like uh formula besides I do think that. there's some. Staples you know. love but even that let me take that out. for a second there's some people who are. married strictly for business purposes. I've seen that too as long as there's AG. greement ment between two people and how. they decide they want to be together. stay out of it it has nothing to do I. tell people all the time don't look at.

my marriages being. contagious whatever I'm doing doesn't. mean you got to be doing that you got to. be doing the thing that works for you. and I feel like every. partnership two people have the right to. figure that out for them and it's so. different in Norms in different cultures. and different backgrounds I mean like. for me and RI we spend a lot of time. apart because she likes to be back with. her family in London and I travel for. work and so we discovered and agreed.

very early on in our relationship that. when I work she would often visit her. family back in London and she loves it. and she's wants to be with her mom and. dad and her niece and nephew and her. sister and brother-in-law and everyone. and I love my purpose and I want to be. traveling I want to be working I want to. be moving and I remember so many times. in our relationship people be like is. everything okay yeah. and then we go back to London people be. like why is your wife not with you or. people like why is Jay not with you and. everyone starts. thinking that there may be something.

going on and it's actually like well no. this was our agreement this is something. we've sat and talked about and figured. things out and actually we love distance. because we get excited to see each other. again it's refreshing it works for us. and again it may not work for anyone. else someone may say I need my partner. by my side every day fair enough right. and someone may say I want to travel. more than you do or less but. we just found that having honest. conversations between us and knowing why. we were making certain decisions even. though they were abnormal to our.

community the community that we grew up. in where the way we live is very. abnormal even though it's just about. time. apart the point was we had an agreement. that worked for us and I think getting. to know you both I I can honestly say. that I feel like you guys are both. always honest and communicative with. each other on what your Agreements are. absolutely that's what we have been. discussing today as well that you know. there's there's always been. that that openness to do that oh yeah. well I talk about it a lot in the book.

absolutely and I think that a lot of. people had a lot of misunderstanding as. that we talked about earlier I believe. in regards to open relationship and. being able to be with whoever you want. no that that's not what was happening. and I think a lot of times that people. just didn't know that we had agreed to. not be together as we were trying to. figure out are we going to be separated. are we going to be divorced then we. would reconcile and then we would break.

up again and it's all this back and. forth between us that we didn't share. with the world a lot you know and I. think. now people are just going to have to be. okay. with our marriage is not traditional in. the sense of here we are married. but not you know what I mean and you. know as I'm on my path and Will's.

figuring his thing out we've decided to. hold space for each other and as we're. trying to figure out who we are Will's. lived a lot of his life for other people. I've definitely lived my life a lot for. other people and really having this time. for me I need this what I've been able. to discover about myself in the last. five years six years I think now I've. needed this time to really concentrate.

on me and really developing. like a relationship with. myself and I feel like the better. relationship I have with myself the. better relationship I have with everyone. else in my life including will and so I. talk about that a lot in the book you. know just a lot of the misunderstandings. that have. occurred rightfully so because it's been. a lot of mixed messaging and then people. are like well you know you guys have. been on the red you know and all of that. we see you we never knew there was a.

breakup you weren't supposed to that was. between us and at the end of the. day we're always family no matter what. so I think that the way we are deciding. to be in a. union people just going to have to get. with that. it's probably not going to look. like what someone else is doing and. that's just the truth of the matter you.

know and we're good with that I can. definitely say that whatever. relationship anyone is in that we all. get to a point in our relationships. romantic or. otherwise where growing together becomes. the greatest priority it doesn't matter. how we got there how we got there or. what's happening it's just that I think. that is the key I was saying to that. when I was writing my book eight rules. of love it was like the journey I went. on through writing it got me to that. point of recognizing that yes the goal.

of every relationship in my life is. simply to teach me something I have been. unwilling to learn and the people that. I'm closest. to come on Jay yeah the people that I'm. closest to mhm are the only ones that. can push me that's right or pull me to. seeing that whether it's your mom. whether it's your dad whether your. sister brother partner whatever it may. be. and for me I also discovered through the.

writing of the book that the greatest. love story and I really really believed. this when I was writing it I was like. the greatest love stories in the world. are actually not romantic the greatest. love stories in the world are you. generally human sacrificing themsel in. the service of others like you see. people take on great sacrif to help. people that they may not even meet or. you see people like taking on a mission. or a movement that positively affect so. many people that they were never even.

connected to like those are the greatest. acts of Love or the act of love that a. parent has for their child that they. extend themselves and express and that. unconditionality you don't really see. romantic love being unconditional. generally it's interesting that trying. to practice and understand what. unconditional love is and figuring it. out which we all are including me but. that Journey was really powerful for me. to recognize that the more unwilling I. become and the more I hide from the. lessons that I'm meant to.

learn the harder it gets and the harder. the lesson gets and the test gets and it. just gets bigger and worse it gets. bigger and you know the truth of the. matter is is like I'm always going to be. by Wills side you know when I think. about like if something ever happened to. him it's like I'm going be right there. if he needs me I'm going to be right. there always that's just an unbreakable. fact that's the bond we have you know.

we've tried to break it we in every. which way you can think. of we don't want to. be in this. lifetime without one another it's just. not going to happen so we're trying to. figure out. what that looks like for us and there. there's something really powerful about. that I got to be honest as difficult as. it's been has there's been times that.

I've hated that fact having. somebody that forces me to have to raise. my Consciousness evolve my understanding. of love to deal with the fact of that. Bond that's a god-given gift. because me and God got to get with that. God has to be my mentor on How to. Love Will and myself and care for the.

relationship that we have Through The. Eyes of the great Supreme not the way. Jaden wants it and. so that has been a beautiful. surrender that I've really have had to. surrender because I really feel like is. by the. decree God was like oh no in this. lifetime that's your person like it or. not I don't.

care so it set me up to have to break. certain ideas of my own. personality and my own ego and really. surrender to what the great Supreme. wants to teach me about love and about. patience and about care kindness. consideration forgiveness of myself. forgiveness of others it's. deep and I'm so grateful it's been a.

painful Journey no doubt but the gifts. that I get on the other side of that. discomfort and when I get on the other. side of the discomfort I go I get it I. couldn't not have gotten that. gift or that understanding. without that trial you gave me I just. ask God these days can you make it a. little easier I think I think I'm. getting the groove of things you know.

what I. mean just like come on you know but I've. also realized too that I'm getting to. the point that when. things tumultuous things come about I. smile and I go okay you got a great one. for me on the other side of this bad boy. you know what I mean you just start to. realize it it's never failed in that. way I remember asking Swami I said do.

you think I should get divorced wow I. didn't know you asked him that I sure. did I asked. Mommy and he said you know. Jada people take their vows very lightly. these days and he said something to the. fact. that you know when we stay stay. committed to the vows that we. make we find what we. need and I was like okay and I I just.

stayed on track I was just like all. right let me let me just keep digging. let me keep going and he you know he's. right for my journey yeah can't say for. anybody else for my journey cuz he said. oh this is what he said he said people. end up as friends and the long run and. they're holding hands walking each other. home and that's how I feel I feel like. will and I are walking each other home.

as life Partners well J I want to share. one last thing with you if I can so. earlier I had a letter for you from. Willow okay and I also have a letter. from will I may need your help with you. may have to reenact some words because I. feel like you'll be able to channel okay. will better than me I will not try and. impersonate him because it won't go well.

but this was for you J I think it was. when we found out that you coming on the. show and right I I was happy that he was. able to send this to me and so I could. share it with you and I'll just read it. and let's let's do it in his words okay. so you'll have to explain this one for. us I know but I want the audience to. know so he said congrats. dink okay so let me just tell you. tell us that let me tell you what dink. means oh he's so crazy so when we play. golf he's my favorite person to play.

golf with so when we play. golf when I hit my driver it goes. [Laughter]. Dink and so that's why he calls me dck. who who's better at golf he's definitely. better okay but I'm I'm getting to a. point where I can you know I can. challenge him in a good way on a couple. of holes for sure all right okay. congrats dink I just turned the final. page of. worthy and damn gonna get you to do the.

damn how would he say it. damn I just turned the final page of. worthy and damn it is amazing to realize. that despite having lived most of my. Life by your side I still found myself. shocked and stunned and Court of God. laughing then. inspired then. heartbroken I was all over the.

place it's one thing to hear anecdotes. at a family. barbecue but it was truly overwhelming. to take in your story potently condensed. in this way you are one of one a rare. blend of power and delicate sensitivity. I know it wasn't easy to excavate the. depths in that way I applaud and honor. you if I had read this book 30 years.

ago I definitely would have hugged you. more I'll start now welcome to the. author's Club I love you. endlessly now go get some Merlo and take. a rest. [Laughter]. he know I can't have no more. love that's.

beautiful that's why I can't divorce. that. joker yeah there's one line that really. hit me and I want to hear obviously how. you felt but he said if I had read this. book 30 years ago I definitely would. have hugged you more I'll start now how. how did it feel listening to parts of. that you know one of the things I talk. about in the book a.

lot is. perspective when we got married we'll. had to be 28 29 we had such. different. needs no right or. wrong you know will was very driven but. I got married because I I was pregnant. and I wanted a family and that I must. say that was the one. thing we both wanted to create a family.

we never had but what we thought took. having a healthy family will believed. man as long as I get out here make money. get the biggest house make sure you guys. don't need anything that's how you have. a great family and my thing was like No. but love and you know me and you we got. to you know everything was centered. around feelings love we just couldn't. find agreement because we thought we had.

two different goals around What it. Took and. so to hear him. say that he would have hugged me. more is me hearing him say he would have. taken a bit more time to listen and. understand that doesn't mean that he. would have to be off his path but just.

to take a little bit more time to listen. and understand and I think when we were. young cuz that was the same way I mean. when we were. young you just think your way is the. only. way and I think that where will and I. are getting to now is understanding that. our ways my way is just one way his way. is just one way and then how do we. listen to each other more to blend those.

ways I was very careful in. not going into. romanticized regret after hearing that. line I wish I could have hugged you more. but I will do so now right I like no no. no you're not going to go into. romanticized regret wow. because what I know as a. fact is that every step.

everything that has transpired between. us has been absolutely. perfect all the. beauty and all the. ugly to get us to a place that we're. that we're coming. to you know and you could you could go. oh I wish that you know I had known this. when I was younger that's the whole. point of Youth you don't. know you know what I mean and then to. really just to be able to embrace like.

this time in my life and in his life and. coming into New Found wisdom and enjoy. that but I'm so glad. that getting closer. to that. blend between us and that's what I'm. saying it's. like who else am I going to grow with. like that and be able to have those that. deep cherished moment of like when you. can look back at where you were 30 years.

ago and where we've. traveled to get to this moment right. here right now at this beautiful. family without. him I wouldn't have had Jaden Willow. Trey oh my. gosh there are no great Treasures than. those three and then all of the. Magnificent experiences he and I have. had together the great ones and the not. so great ones you know but they're ours.

part of our. tapestry one thing I talk about in the. book going to see Ruby D when I needed. some marital. advice and she told me laugh now because. you're going to laugh. later and it's so true I didn't know. what she was talking about then but. she'd been married at that time for 50. some. years a see was gone Azie Davis had. passed on you know and one of the things.

she said to me I said what's one of your. biggest regrets and she said I wished I. had laughed with him more and that never. leaves my mind MH to just find ways to. get through the bumpy to get through the. bumpy stuff and let's get back to some. laughter and some joy j I'm going to. give this to. you in case you want to read it again. yeah uh and I want to thank you. for you know.

your vulnerability your openness today. and the vulnerability in the book that. you shared so profoundly today but the. book you get to weave the tapestry. together and the lessons and where they. come in your life and I really. I really believe that anyone who will Le. read this book. will gain access to a much deeper. understanding of.

themselves as a. mirror and also get an opportunity. to reframe rethink renew ideas. perspective. thoughts about their own Journey that is. all that I want like we have so much. fear around. allowing people their Journeys because. we can tend to get hurt within them. along the way but it's inevitable and. the more that we can have acceptance for.

the reality that life is a. journey nobody is meant to be. perfect it baffles me well actually let. me take that back it doesn't baffle me. because I've been. there it doesn't baffle me I've been. there where just being afraid to allow. what is to be and that is embracing our. humanness and learning how to love each.

other through our humanness all this. cancel culture and all of this that is. purely a. rejection of aspects of. ourselves and a rejection of. humanness and that's where unconditional. love has its most power right but if we. can learn to do that with us starting. with ourselves right learning how to. have unconditional love for ourselves. and have acceptance for our journey and. that's what I want from this book I'm.

just putting it out there like. he this is what my journey looks like. and it ain't. cute this is what I've learned along the. way and this is how I learned how to. gain selfworth and to feel worthy about. it all about it all about it all. day every piece of it and that's all I. want for everybody else it's okay it's. okay you don't have to come down on.

yourself and just because we stumble and. we might lose our way doesn't mean we're. lost forever thank you Charles Xavier. from X-Men for that. statement I love X I did too Charles. laid it out just like that I had to put. that quote in my book. but it's true that's all I want for. everybody we are all. worthy embracing at all every aspect of. our journey that is the thing that makes.

us worthy we're harder. on others because we're so hard on. ourselves we're hard on ourselves. because we're so hard on others and that. cycle keeps repeating itself point out. someone's floor because we're pointing. them out in ourselves but not looking at. the growth we're trying to make and the. growth someone else trying to make the. healing Journey that they're on and the. healing Journey that we're on and as you. were just saying that what came to my. mind was that we all have to take the. same steps but on our own path and I.

think what this book does so gracefully. is show your steps which reminds us all. that even if we trip and we fall which. we inevitably. will there's still another step after. that that we can take and that ultimate. step is. what you just so beautifully put the. step of recognizing that all of it was. worthy all of it was part of that. Journey.

towards selfworth and that you're. loved you're loved and you're held no. matter what through all of the scrutiny. and through all of the I don't know. stones that were thrown at me as. painful as all of that was. what a beautiful. Gauntlet to get me to the. understanding that it's only our self. judgment that's the true.

enemy and I got to cure so much of my. own self- judgment through all of that. it's almost like being like Wonder Woman. you. know you know what I mean it's like the. great Supreme makes it so that you're. Invincible to. all the criticism anything else anybody. has to say about you when you get that. true. sense of.

worthiness doesn't matter what anybody. else thinks doesn't matter what other. misunderstandings are happening and I. want that for everybody it's a. superpower but it's not given without. the trial it's beautiful it's beautiful. it's beautiful thank you I'm so. grateful and thank you Jay thank you Jay. yeah thank you Jay you've been so good. to me through it all thank you thank you. thank you thank you thank you so.

grateful to you too as well for letting. me be a small part of the journey. because it's one that you give me The. Bravery To Tread myself so thank you if. you love this episode you'll love my. interview with Will Smith on owning your. truth and unlocking the power of. manifestation anybody who hasn't spoken. look to their parents or their brother. call them right now don't think you're. going to have a chance to call them. tomorrow or next week that opportunity.

with my father changed every. relationship in my life.