Hidden Ways Your Childhood Patterns Shape Your Marriage (Even If You Don’t See it Yet)

On this show, I've been so lucky to sit. down with some of the greatest experts. on the planet from when it comes to. marriage to romance, chemistry, compatibility, some of the therapists. that are working with hundreds of. clients worldwide, and people in the. public eye who've opened up about their. own experience. You're going to get to. hear from all of them in just a moment, so make sure you stick around. The. number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the.

only Jay Shetty. When it comes to building a lasting. marriage, most people think it starts. with romance or chemistry, but it's. actually something else. The real. foundation to a lasting marriage. is emotional resilience. Think about. this. Nearly half of all marriages in. the US still end in divorce. The number. one reason isn't a lack of love. It's a breakdown in trust and.

communication. That's where everything. starts to fall apart. In this episode, we're going straight to the heart of it. Why people cheat and why they stay. Why. forever isn't a promise, it's a. practice, and how redefining love might. be the key to saving it. What you'll. hear isn't fluff or wishful thinking, just hard-earned truths and. relationship-saving lessons. Jada. Pinkett Smith breaks down how marriage.

isn't a fixed identity, it's a spiritual. evolution. She opens up about. separation, reconciliation, and the patterns from childhood that. shape adult love. The real lesson is. this. You don't just arrive in marriage. It's. not a finish line. You keep choosing. each other over and over as you both. grow and change even when life gets. messy. Especially with big life changes, one study found that 67% of couples.

report being less satisfied in their. marriage after having children unless. they work intentionally to reconnect. As. she describes here, you don't need a. perfect partner. You need a partner. willing to grow with you. We really look. at our marriage as being. the cornerstone of family. We're both. kind of coming up with different. definitions. of what marriage means for us. We're.

still figuring all of that out. Yeah, but. the beautiful part is that there's been. some really deep healing going on. Yeah. I mean, you know, that I mean, at the. end of the day, that's what it's about. Marriage is so much about growth. Like really learning how to grow. emotionally, like emotional maturity, spiritual maturity, and there's this.

spiritual bond there. I mean, we've. tried our best to get away from each. other. I mean, I mean, our best. And. we just don't want to. So, we are. defining it. the way that works for us. And I think getting comfortable with not. being concerned about. what anybody else thinks about it. We have this life partnership, and every.

day. we're trying to figure out what that. means. You've both talked about how. you feel like you're a mirror for each. other. Yeah. And when I've spoken to. Will as well, it's like he feels like. you're the person who knows him to his. core. >> Absolutely. >> he know and he knows you to your core, like you know everything Yeah. >> that potentially there is to know about. each other. >> Everything. >> obviously still learning. >> Yeah. What's really interesting about. that is some people say, "Well, why not.

just get divorced?". >> Yeah. Everybody's always like, "Why. don't you just get divorced?". >> Yeah. And it's like, "Mhm, that's like. quitting. I don't think there's any. person that could embrace the best and. the worst of me and be able be willing. to hold space in the way that Will holds. space for me and the way that I hold. space for him. And I know that most. people probably go into their. relationship.

as like, "You are here to please me.". And yeah, our relationship isn't quite. that. You know, it's like it's more about. there's no greater mirror I could have. than Will. He doesn't I can't I can't. get around myself, just like he can't. get around himself with me. And I think. that that's just been. what this has been all about. Like it's. been a deep clearing.

Like really having to look at yourself. in ways. in that mirror that sure, we talk about. this all the time. Would it be easier to. go and find somebody else and have a. more pleasing, more comfortable. relationship? Maybe. But would that get. me to the person. that I really want to be? I don't think so. And I'm not saying. that everybody's relationship is. supposed to be that. I'm not here to say. that. I'm just saying that that's what. my relationship is. That's something I.

desire. to. get to a. a deeper part, a more spiritually sound, emotionally. sound, and really understand love. unconditionally. And the thing that I've learned about. unconditional love, you can't really. understand what unconditional love in. ideal circumstances. to really get to.

what it is to love. yourself and someone else completely. with all that's divine, all that's human, all that's perfect, and all that is. deeply flawed. And have full acceptance for it all. I'll tell you, this is. You know, marriage is not for the faint. at heart. It's just not.

And it is definitely I believe I. believe, you know, different people get married. for different reasons, so I'm not trying. to say why anybody else should be. married. But for me, the holy path. of getting to a divine aspect of myself. in partnership with Will. And it seems like Will wants the same. for himself. And it's taken us, you know, I mean, we. got together at what? I was 23. Okay? 23. when I first decided to.

commit myself. to Willard Carroll Smith. Lord Jesus. So young. So young. We were babies, babies trying to figure this out. And. you know what's interesting about young. relationships? You create these young. patterns. that gets so like these really young, immature patterns in yourself and how. you relate.

to your partner, and then you create. these dynamics between one another that. it takes a while to like really be. willing to look at that stuff and. dissolve it and let it go and mature and. grow. It takes some real like self-inventory, courage, right? Because. you're breaking down everything, all your romantic ideas, everything you.

thought, you know, relationship or. marriage, all your romantic fantasies, you know? Just. you know, blow up in flames, but. it's really been freeing. It's really been freeing to. see what's more true. Right? I'm not saying that I don't know. the truth yet. I just feel like I'm seeing more of. what's true, you know, as regards to.

what love and partnership is about. Cuz I was definitely one of those people. that's like, "You're here to make me. happy. And when you don't do it, that's a problem." And that and that's a. normal setup. That's how we believe. relationships are, and you know, I've. talked about it before, and I I put it. forward in my book, this idea that. we think pleasure is the ultimate gift. of a relationship, but really purification is, and that's a. really tough.

idea for anyone, including me. I like I. haven't perfected that idea, for me to. wrap my head around. And I can honestly. say that I love Radha, and you know, you. you've seen us both together and. everything, but the greatest gift Radha. gives me is a mirror and a purification. of Radha can call out my ego better than. anyone or anything, and I know it's. coming from a good place. >> Yeah. >> Uh Radha can show me my flaws in the. nicest, most supportive way possible,

and can receive it back from me. Yeah. >> And then. I feel like because of her, I'm. trying to be better, getting better, not. for her. >> For myself. >> Mhm. It's almost like the person that. you live with knows you so deeply, or. the person that you've seen has seen you. in all circumstances, in all situations, knows you the. deepest. I always say, "Radha knows. whether I woke up and meditated in the. morning.". >> Yeah. Like Radha knows whether I got. angry or frustrated at night after a. phone call. Like Radhi knows that. And.

if I use that to my advantage of. am I becoming, am I growing? But it's. such a hard concept for people to. understand because it's it's so. counterintuitive. to the pleasure-seeking mind that we've. been conditioned to chase. And again, I'm not saying we shouldn't have. pleasure in relationships. That's That's. not the point I'm making. I'm just. saying that there's more to it. There's. another level. There's definitely more. to it. And I think we've talked about. this before, you and I, as far as people.

believing that. romantic love is the highest form. Mhm. Now, I believe that romantic love is an. aspect, right, of a higher form. But it I don't. believe that romantic self romantic love. itself is the highest form, right? I. believe within the highest form, you can. have romantic love, but that romantic. love is not of the highest, right? And.

that's all I've been. examining and exploring with Will. And. really trying to understand the power of. unconditional love, friendship. Like there's something about. friendship, familial love that. is. beautiful. But when two people can have an. agreement.

around divine love, like. love of. a source greater than yourself Mhm. that you want to be connected to. And then you decide that your. relationship is going to be connected to. that same source, oh boy, now we're on to something. Now we're on to something. But to think that romantic love.

can hold all of the difficulties and. challenges alone. And I think that's why. so many of us get into these power. struggles and why there's so many. divorces and why there you know, just. all of the strife in relationships. You brought up something that was really. important. And it's the idea of Radhi when. she can kind of pull your coattails with. love. And I think that's it takes a lot.

of work to figure that out. Like to not. be offended when someone shows up. imperfectly. And that those are those kind of pieces. um within relationship. Like we feel. like people are supposed to come. ready-made. You walk down the aisle and. it's like. he knows how to love me, you know, I. know how to love him, you know, and not. making room. for that space of growth that is. inevitable. People are going to mess up.

People are going to do stupid stuff. People going to say stupid stuff. Now, when it comes to abuse and all of that, that's a different story. Right? But people who are willing. to learn how to love each other, cuz I. really do think that's what. committed relationship's about, marriage. or not. I'm committed to learning how to love. myself, learning how to love you, right?

And then learning how to cultivate this. relationship that we have. with that essence, with those. components. Then. that's a beautiful thing. That's what I believe. the holy path of relating is all about. And not everybody wants that. Yeah, yeah, totally. You know, some people. really just want the romantic version of. it. And that's okay, too. >> Absolutely. That's okay, too, you know.

But um for me, definitely. on that path of looking for something. deeper within myself, mostly. Yeah. How did you let go of that. desire for romantic love, but then hold. on to the friendship? Because I feel. like that's a journey that is so hard, whether someone stays married or gets. divorced or like like you both are. You. described yourself as best friends. How. did you hold on to friendship being able.

to let go of the mirage that you had. earlier or even not even the mirage, the. reality of what you had earlier, as you. talk about in the book? You know, the. chemistry, the spark. I think so many of. us are trying to hold on to that, but. you've let go of that and then you're. saying, but we've held on to the. friendship, the the mirror, the work, the growth. That sounds like the hard. way through it. I think it's how people. show up. And people don't always show up perfect, clearly.

But. one thing about Will and I, we're just not willing to give up. Yeah. It's like I'm lucky that we just want to. have each other in in one another's. life, right? You have moments of. disharmony. But if you know that you're not willing. to not have that person in your life, you know you got to put forth the effort. and you got to put forth the work.

to transform whatever's not working. So. we always make the decision. to take that one step closer. to diving more deeply. to learning how to love. And most of the time, it has more to do with. self-inventory, having to go in the corner. and look at oneself and then come back.

and go, I was tripping. Whether it's I'm sorry or I had a. misunderstanding. Can we look at this now together because. now I've looked at it in my corner alone. and I've seen my part. And I want to talk to you first about my. part. A, B, C, and D. Right? And then inevitably, usually your partner go, well, you know,

I could have done such and such and such. and such. Yeah. And so when you have an agreement. that's really unspoken of like, I want. you in my life. And I want to have good times with you. And I love you. Then that's the energy that. nurtures. and keeps. one willing. to just keep working at it. So there's that deep love.

And the great thing is that Will's got a. great sense of humor. Yeah, good guy. You know what I mean? He's got a really good sense of humor. So he has a way of being able to help me. get out of my funk. But I'm kind of like you talk about this. a lot with Radhi, where I kind of have. to take my time. Like I'm not always. ready to talk right away. I need I need. to like sit. I need to be with myself. I. need to kind of like work through my. thoughts and all of that. Where Will is always ready to talk. Yeah. I like to go deep. He likes to get.

funny. The great thing about him, he can. go deep. >> Totally. Absolutely. >> And. there are times that I really like to. play and have fun. Yeah. So we we're. like these. energetic fields, you know, I'm earth. and he's sky. You know, we're we are your typical. yin and yang. You know, that you know, that there's. this great chemistry there between us. that just works. And but when it doesn't. work, oh man.

Oh man. Oh man. You know what I mean? Those moments when. it's just like ah. But I think that's just inevitable in. every relationship, you know, and. but it just doesn't look traditional. I. think that's the point. That's That's. the part where it's like it just doesn't. look traditional. It works. There's. There's the trust. There's commitment. There's. There's understanding. And at the same. time it doesn't look It doesn't look. traditional. I don't know. I'll be. honest with you. There aspects.

of traditional relating that absolutely. work. But I think in this day and age, I don't. know too many marriages. that are. traditional. I really don't. Everybody is trying to figure it out, right? And I think everybody's so scared to. talk about. all of the different ways that they're. that they're trying to figure it out. I.

know so many people who are like. married, but not living together. Married, but. have decided to have other partners. I. know so many people and have for a long. time that are trying marriage in so many. different forms. [Music]. And. my whole thing is. figure it out for you. Marriage is not a cookie-cut out like. uh formula. Besides, I do think that.

there's some staples. You know, love. But even that, let me take that out for a second. There's some people who are married. strictly for business purposes. I've seen that, too. As long as there's. agreement between two people and how. they decide they want to be together, Stay out of it. It has nothing to do I. tell people all the time, don't look at. my marriage as being contagious. Mhm.

Whatever I'm doing doesn't mean you got. to be doing that. Mhm. You got to be doing the thing that works. for you. And I feel like every. partnership. two people have the right to figure that. out for them. And it's so different in. norms in different cultures and. different backgrounds. I mean. like for me and Radhi, we spend a lot of. time apart because she likes to be back. with her family in London and I travel. for work. And so we discovered and. agreed very early on in our relationship.

that when I work she would often visit. her family back in London and she loves. it and she's wants to be with her mom. and dad and her niece and nephew and her. sister and brother-in-law and everyone. And I love my purpose and I want to be. traveling. I want to be working. I want. to be moving. And I remember so many times in our. relationship people be like, is. everything okay? >> Yeah. Like and then we go back to London. people be like, why is your wife not. with you? People like, why is Jay not. with you? And everyone starts thinking. that there may be something going on and. it's actually well no, this was our. agreement. This is something we've sat.

and talked about and figured things out. and actually we love distance cuz we get. excited to see each other again. It's. refreshing. It works for us. And again, it may not work for anyone else. Someone. may say, I need my partner by my side. every day. Fair enough. And someone may. say, I want to travel more than you do. or less. But we just found that having. honest between us and knowing why we. were making certain decisions even. though they were abnormal to our. community, the community that we grew up.

in where the way we live is very. abnormal. Even though it's just about time apart. The point was we had an agreement that. worked for us. And I think getting to. know you both I I can honestly say that. I feel like you guys are both always. honest and communicative with each other. on what your agreements are. Absolutely. >> what we have been discussing today as. well that you know, there's there's. always been that. that openness to do that. >> Oh yeah, well I talk about it a lot in. the book. >> Absolutely. And I think that a lot of.

people had a lot of misunderstanding as. a we talked about earlier I believe in. regards to. open relationship and being able to be. with whoever you want. No, that that's. not what was happening. And I think a. lot of times that people just didn't. know that we had agreed to not be. together. As we were trying to figure out. are we going to be separated? Are we. going to be divorced? Then we would. reconcile. And then we would break up. again. And it's all this back and forth. between us that we didn't share with the.

world a lot. You know, and I think now. people are just going to have to be okay. with. our marriage is not traditional in the. sense of here we are. married. but not. You know what I mean? And. you know, as I'm on my path and Will's. figuring his thing out. we've decided to hold space for each.

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Relationship coach Sadia Khan shares a. truth most people don't even think. about. More men are being cheated on. than we realize. But most of them stay silent. According. to a study by the CDC, men are more than. 50% less likely to seek counseling than. women. Which means they're more likely. to internalize this shame and carry it. forward.

The lesson, emotional reaction might. feel good in the moment but it doesn't. solve anything. What actually protects a. relationship is emotional regulation. Fireworks and passion fades but. stability, self-control and discipline. that's what builds real trust and keeps. a relationship strong. It's not just. about you and your partner. Your. relationship sets a blueprint for your. kids, your family, your future. Who you pick as your partner sets the.

tone for the rest of your life. Cheating doesn't begin in the bedroom. It begins in emotional distance. Spot the signs early or spend time. repairing it far too late. What are the. top three things that people you guide. and coach and follow you on social media. come to you for and say their number one. issue is? Oh, for men, they do suffer. from a lot of infidelity where the women. are cheating on the men. No. A lot more. than I ever expected. >> Really? That's blowing my mind right.

now. My number one client is a man who's. just been cheated on by a woman. And. because there's not much talk about this. on social media and there's not much. talk about this in general, we're almost. programmed to think men cheat. 100%. Yeah, it's rare that you find the the. idea of women cheating. And men don't. actually talk to each other when they've. been cheated on. They kind of keep it to. themselves cuz they're almost. embarrassed or ashamed. Whereas women we. can confide in each other a bit more. So. my number one client tends to be the man. that's been cheated on or the woman that. can't get the man to commit. That tends. to be the two.

fields I kind of have seem to attract in. terms of clients. But men getting. cheated on or men not being masculine. enough tends to be the common theme of. my clients that keep coming back in. What's the difference between the woman. a man dates and the woman a man marries? I would say the key difference is the. element of stability and responsibility. And what I mean by that is being with a. man who's super social, who's a big. drinker and has got all these friends. and busy all day every day and got this. amazing life is great for dates. You get. to go on great vacations with him. You.

get to go to nice restaurants and so on. and so forth. But when we get when it. comes to getting married, if you don't. look for a man with a lot of. self-control, you will really suffer. And what I mean by this is that he needs. to have self-control in terms of his. sexual discipline. He needs self-control. in terms of what he puts into his body, even the food he eats, everything. And. he needs self-control when it comes to. his money. If in those areas he's got no. self-control, for dating no problem. It. doesn't matter. Yeah, he can be sexually. wild. He can spend all his money. No. problem. You can enjoy a great life. When you marry a man like that, every.

day is anxiety. Every single day is. anxiety because his lack of self-control. will lead to a lack of self-respect. And. as a result, he'll have such low. self-esteem that you can't trust him to. make decisions. But men with lots of. self-control, you can trust that they. make great decisions. You can trust. their judgment. And you can finally. start a family or start your goals. But. you can't do that with men who have got. no self-control. Do you know what the. amazing thing is that I I as I was. listening to you I was thinking about. like men don't learn that anywhere. No, they don't. >> It's so hard. Like if I never lived as a. monk, I wouldn't have any sense of self.

>> your biggest lesson living with monks? I. mean, a big part of it is sense control. Like you don't you don't you eat what. you're given. You're celebrate while. you're there. There's complete focus and. determination on the path. And so there. were so many. amazing. mental mastery tools that I gained in. terms of discipline Yeah. and. organization that I don't know where. else I would have learned them. Can you. excel as a man without self-control, do. you think? >> think so. >> It's an impossibility, isn't it? >> Yeah. No, that's why I love what you're. saying. I just feel bad cuz I can't.

think of It's the opposite that. actually. We're told men are being told. that be with as many women as you can. Be have zero sexual discipline. And you. know, you you can kind of eat whatever. and there's always those Olympic cuz so. don't worry about it. Or there's we're. actually being told to reduce our like. our self-control and replace it with. hedonism. Follow your impulses and you. only live once. Just do it. That kind of. mentality where it comes to drinking, when it comes to food, when it comes to. money, just spend, spend, spend all. these things. Unfortunately, we're.

pushing men into a slow and steady. depression because we're reducing the. importance of self-control and replacing. it with self-indulgence. And that is a. slow suicide for a man. He'll only start. to respect himself when he can control. himself. And and that only when he can. control himself he can then excel. And. if you pick a man who can't control. himself, you'll spend the rest of your. life trying to control him and it will. bring out the worst side of you. You'll become a you'll become a mother. to a child you'd never wanted to adopt. Wow. That mic drop.

No, that's so powerful. It's uh. as I'm listening to you, I'm just. sitting here thinking how much there is. a need in helping men realize that. mental mastery, sense control, discipline are what's going to find the. right person. But I think the problem is. men also believe that if they're the. life of the party, if they're the big. spender. if they're the big guy at the party, that's what's going to attract the right. person. It would attract a chaotic. person. There are women lots of women.

that would like that. There are lots and. lots of women that would like that. you're a big spender, you're spending on. bottles, you're going drinking all night. and you're the life and soul of the. party. But it won't attract women who. want a fast life don't probably don't. want to invest in you. They're probably. not going to be there when you're. suffering and you're on a downward. spiral. My my reason I'm so strict on. men when it comes to self-discipline and. sexual discipline in particular is we. live in a time when men don't really get. a say in when a baby is born, it's not. really up to them if that child stays. Our women have the right I I don't know. what it's like in America, but usually. we get to control if we want to keep the.

baby or don't want to keep the baby. And. as a result we get some autonomy. If we. if it's the wrong man, perfect. We don't. have to suffer the consequences. But. with men, if you get the wrong person. and you don't have a good relationship. and then you bring children into that. mix, you create a generation of broken. children. And you are more responsible. for that, yeah? Because you have to be. more careful than women do because we. still have autonomy. We can get rid of a. child if we need to. You can't really. have that much say in it. So you have to. be so disciplined with who you are. laying down with. And if you ruin I know. men who have ruined their families just.

because they couldn't control themselves. sexually or just because they couldn't. have that right right conversation with. their wife and say, "Look, I'm missing. the intimacy. Maybe we should just. part." Instead, they just light a flame. into their own home and then suffer the. consequences. So sexual discipline is a. really really important one for men. followed by financial discipline. But. I've heard you say before that if. someone cheats on you, it's partly your. fault. >> I do say that. >> And I wanted to hear your take on that. to understand that. >> I know that sounds terrible and I say. this particularly with you know, men. especially. I'm like, "It's always your.

own fault." And the reason I say that is. most cheaters come with smoking guns on. the first date. There's always some. signal that their behavior was not. transparent. And whenever you catch them. cheating, usually it's they say, "I. always knew." Because from day one they. were like this. It was a And I always. say, "People usually don't lie. They. might say lies, but they show you their. red flags pretty much from day one." And. it might have been that they were in a. relationship when you met them. Or it. might have been that you caught them in. a few lies when you first got with them. You would have caught some signs that. this person is capable of deeper lies.

And when we I'm not saying you should. always look for the bad, but when we. keep ignoring poor behavior, what ends. up happening is we are becoming distant. from the truth. We are going into. denial. I actually don't have a problem. even if your partner is cheating, no. problem. You have radical radical. relationship with the truth. And there's. some women out there that are. mistresses. They're so happy in that. role because they know the truth. They. know that he goes there, spends time. with his wife, I'll see him when I see. him. Truth is really important. So the. more you align yourself with truth, the.

more you won't actually get blindsided. But when you start missing red flags. again and again, you haven't been. intimate in months, nobody if somebody's. not coming home on time, nothing's. adding up, and you keep making excuses, unfortunately, we create the environment. for these types of people to flourish. It's almost better that you protect your. own home and protect your own sanity. Doesn't mean you become accusatory, but. you know that your treatment is not what. you're what you appreciate. And if they. continue like that, they don't have to. cheat. The behavior is enough for you to. start setting a boundary. And the. behaviors you don't need cuz some.

cheaters will say, "Well, you can't. prove anything." Cheaters will always. want you to catch them red-handed. You. as the person should say, "I don't need. red-handed evidence. I can see your. behavior's not treating me rightly.". Stop them there before they get to the. point where they're disrespecting you. more and more. That's where the. gaslighting comes in, right? It's like. Yeah, people get gaslit. >> They do get gaslighted really heavily. and this is even as a psychologist and. you know when I'm as a therapist. And. this is where I have to be a lot more. empathetic because I've had clients. there that were like, "She keeps. accusing me." And they're so like.

convincing that I'm like, "You need to. stop accusing him." I don't And then. she'll say she sees me afterwards, "I. found out he was having an affair the. whole time." So the gaslighting is very. very real, but the feeling they give you. is always true. So they'll lie to you. What their words their lips will be. there, but your feeling that gut. instinct that something's not right or. they're lying to you, try and pay. attention to that. And even if you never. get evidence, that feeling it is partly. your partner's responsibility to help. soothe those anxieties, not make them. worse. So if if you have that feeling. and they're just like, "Babe, look, whatever you need like to make you feel.

better, no problem. I've got nothing to. hide." But if they get less and less. transparent, try and pay attention to. that. What I'm hearing from you is. if you pay attention to the signs that. you're seeing, you don't let yourself be in a position. where you're taken advantage of. >> That's what I'm saying. I'm saying know. your partner better than they know. themselves. The moment they start. changing, you spot it quicker than they. can. And so And I'm sure you have this. with Radhi where you probably know her. so so well that it would be difficult. for her to have a double life without. you. You'll know her behaviors, the way. she moves, what how she talks, how she.

kisses you, everything. You pay close. attention. When you pay so much. attention to your partner, it's quite. difficult for them to live a whole. double life without you catching on. So. try and stay attuned as much as you can. Yeah, every relationship has a rhythm. It has a pattern. Yeah. >> And when the pattern's off, you check. in. I think one of the things I see in. relationships struggling, especially as. they get longer term, is we don't. recommit. >> Mhm. So life changes. >> Mhm. Right? Me and Radhi had a dating. life. When we got married, we had to. recommit to a different way of living. >> Mhm. >> When we got married, then we lived in.

New York, we had to recommit to a. different way of living. We moved to LA, different way of living. It's almost. like I've dated so many different people. in Radhi. Yeah. >> As in she's evolved, she's changed. And. And same back at me probably to some. degree. But I think we don't like it. when our partner changes. We all want to. feel better, to have more energy and. more focus throughout the day. That's. why I co-founded Juni, a sparkling. adaptogenic drink made with powerful. ingredients like ashwagandha and lion's. mane. It's designed to boost your mood,

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exclusively at drinkjuni.com where you. can use the code onpurpose20. for 20% off your first order. Cheers to. your daily mood boost. Psychotherapist. Lori Gottlieb challenges the fantasy of. a blind love. If you can't talk about. marriage, money, and the future before. the proposal, you're not ready. More than 53% of couples split because. of too much conflict and arguing, while. more than 70% break up because of a lack.

of commitment. It's impossible to form. true commitment and conflict resolution. without open and honest communication. The takeaway, it's easier not to be. honest when the topic is uncomfortable. But vulnerability requires honesty. And. ultimately, clarity is the most loving. thing you can offer your partner. Our. community had a lot of questions around. was. what's the right amount of pressure.

for someone to get married or proposed. to you? Because I think people get to. this point where they feel like we've. invested so much time, we're together, we're here, but this person is just not. proposing. They're not getting They. don't you know, they don't want to get. married, whatever it may be. And then. gets to this point of this ultimatum of. like And now there's even a TV show. called The Ultimatum, which is all about. people dealing with that period in their. life. So what does someone do in that. scenario where they feel there's good. commitment, we're getting somewhere, but.

the other person isn't showing this. excitement, enthusiasm, or even taking. action on taking this relationship to. the next level? This is like that. birthday party thing where you feel. like, you know, the other person should. just know. Um but we're not. communicating about it. The fact that. people don't talk about whether they. want to get married before a proposal. happens is insane to me. It just. >> I'm glad you said it. >> It makes It makes no sense that it. shouldn't be a total surprise. You should know that you're both on the. same page and you should know that the.

other person is definitely going to say. yes. That you've talked about this. So. many people come to me for premarital. therapy where they can talk about cuz. they know they want to get married and. maybe they want to They're not even. having any problems. They just want to. talk about their families and how. they're going to blend their families. and the in-laws and the siblings and, you know, this person and this. personality or they want to talk about. money or they want to talk about whether. they want to have kids and how many and. how that might work or they want to talk. about balancing their careers or they.

want to talk about sex and all the. different things that might be hard to. talk about before you get married that. are so important and they might not have. the answers right now, but they're. learning how to talk about these. challenging topics. Mhm. And people say, "Oh, you're in therapy and you're not. even married yet. Something must be. terribly wrong." It's like, "No, something's terribly right.". And so the fact that that people are. saying like, "I really want this person. to propose, but I don't understand why. they're not." And they don't feel like. they can ask the person means you are.

not ready to marry that person. If you. don't feel like you can bring this up. and say, "Where are we? We've been. together for this amount of time. I'm. feeling this. I'm wondering where you. are with this." And the person you'll. get so much information from. "I do want. to marry you. I don't feel ready yet. because of this, but I think I will feel. ready in 6 months." Right? And then you. have a choice. Do you want to wait for. that or do you not want to wait for. that? Or never. They may say I don't. >> Or they might say. "Actually, I don't know how I feel about.

getting married. I don't know if I'm. going to come around to that." You have. a choice about what you want to do with. that. "I, you know, oh, I didn't realize. that I I thought I did want to get. married, but now I'm not so sure." Well, that's really important to know. Why. what's happening between us? So that. conversation is so important. Or do you. just want to sit there scheming with. your friends about how you can drop. hints or how you can like analyze the. behavior because the person did this and. what does that mean? That doesn't sound.

like the kind of marriage you want to be. in. Don't you want to be in the kind of. marriage where you can say to the. person, "Hey, this is what I'm desiring. This is what I'm wanting. Where are you. with this?" Mhm. But that's such a basic. conversation. But that's so much. healthier than an ultimatum, too, because I think we also get Again, it. goes back to what we were talking about. earlier. You haven't given that regular. check-in. Right. >> You haven't touched base. You don't. really know what that person's belief. system is around marriage or whatever. else it may be. And all of a sudden, it's built up for you as this big thing. And now you're like, "Okay, well, either. you marry me or we're over." And then.

that's not comfortable for that person, either, because now they feel they're. forced into a choice as opposed to a. sense of how do you feel about this? And. what are your thoughts about this? Again, it comes back to we're so scared. of appearing to be naggy. Yes. We're so. scared of appearing to be. high-maintenance. We're so scared of. appearing to be the one who's needy or. desperate or whatever maybe, but we are. feeling all of those things. I've had so. many friends who are given the advice. that if your relationship's not working. out, have a baby and it will save it.

It's terrible advice. >> made sense to me because if your. relationship's not working, now you have. another relationship to take care of who. is a new child, a new human being in the. in the world. And so, how are you going. to You're going to give less attention. to each other. You've already been given. no attention. Now you have less. attention to share with each other and. more attention on this another being. I'm I'm shocked that that advice still. gets passed around and people still see. it as a viable solution to a bad. relationship. >> Yeah. Yeah, they think of it as like.

sunk cost, like we've been married this. long, so we can't we can't start over. We can't You know, what do we do to save. this? Let's have a baby because it's a. distraction. They think like this will be great, it's. exciting, it'll bring some vitality and. energy and aliveness into the. relationship when if you don't already. have that aliveness and that vitality. between the two of you, the baby is not. going to provide that for you. Mhm. You're going to get a lot of outside. attention, like, "Oh, that's so great. Look at the baby." But in reality, you.

guys are going to have to be more of a. team than you've ever been and problem. solve more than you've ever had to and. figure out how to create connection. under much more challenging. circumstances. So, it's the most. counterintuitive advice and and I I. always tell people, "If you are not. solid, do not bring another person into. this family." Yeah, it's almost like you. already don't have problem-solving. skills, you don't have collaboration. skills, and now you're having to make. choices on behalf of an entirely new. human being where the stakes are so high.

and everything feels like it's personal. of whether things are going well for the. child or not. >> Well, what happens is the pain Olympics. start. And what I mean is that, you. know, I had the baby all day, I have it. harder, you didn't do this. No, I had it. harder cuz I've been at work all day and. now I have to take over this and you. didn't have to work all day. Whatever it. is, they vie for who has the most pain. and then they compete for it. And that. becomes their relationship. You know, you owe me because I won the pain. Olympics today. No, you owe me because.

yesterday I won the pain Olympics and I. never got my reward. And that becomes. their whole relationship. Mhm. Yeah, one. of the questions I ask people when they. said to me like, "Should we have kids. now or is it the right time to have. children?". I often say that I think we're asking. the wrong question. Like, the question. should be "Do I know how my life is. going to change and am I ready for that? And am I aware of that? And are we aware. of how our life is going to change?" To. the point you're making of "Well, who is. going to take the responsibility? And am.

I going to feel like you're not helping. out?" And what does that look like? Again, having a conversation about it. seems like the practical thing to do. Another relationship that seems to. add more complexity since the beginning. of time is in-laws. You mentioned it. earlier that you have clients that come. and see you for that. The amount of. friends I've spoken to recently who have. this challenge where they feel that. their in-laws are too involved. Their. in-laws are not involved. When their. in-laws are too involved, they're too. controlling of either or one of the. partners or they have expectations, they.

have certain demands on time and. holidays and where they're spent and all. of these kinds of things. What I found to be the core pain it it. again going back to our earlier. conversation. is people feel their partners' parents. are too involved, too demanding, too. hands-on. But they feel their partner can't stand. up to their parents and their partner. doesn't understand how it affects them.

That's kind of where I've seen the main. pressure that people are carrying. How does someone deal with the fact that. they feel their partner doesn't defend. them or stand up for them in front of. their partner's parents and therefore. they feel their partner doesn't. understand what they're going through? I. have gotten thousands of letters to my. column and to my podcast about in-laws. And what I always say is in-law issues. are couples' issues. So, people think. it's about the mother-in-law, the. father-in-law, it's about the two of.

you. And if your partner, whose parent. that is, cannot talk to their parent on. your behalf, that's a couple's issue. Mhm. So, the person will say, "Oh, it's. really not that bad." But if your. partner is saying, "I am really. struggling with this. and it's not your you know, it's it's. not their parent, you need to talk to. your own parent about this. You need to. have your partner's back. And if you. don't, your partner is going to feel. that you are treating them the same way.

that their parent is. You might not be. doing the same thing, but the fact that. they don't have your support is going to. pull you apart in this marriage because. your partner, it's not about taking. sides, it's about prioritizing. this couple's relationship and saying, "Listen, when you do this, it makes my. wife feel like she's not a good parent. or she's not a good wife. And you might. have these values, Mom, and I understand. that, but I don't want you saying those. kinds of things. You can have whatever. thoughts you have, please don't say them.

to me or to my wife because I'm very. happy with our relationship." And what. you're really standing up for is the. relationship. It's not just standing up. for your partner, it's standing up for. we understanding each other, we can talk. about these things with each other. And. we do not want that kind of. interference. What do you do when your. partner doesn't have the guts to do. that? When they don't have the. authority or the the relationship with. their own parents, which is constantly. being They've been babied, they've been. Mhm. you know, the mommy's boy or.

whatever it may be and they don't really. have the courage to stand up to their. parents and say. what you just said, which isn't rude, it's not Mhm. mean, but in their head, they're like, "How could I ever defy my. parents? Like, what does that look. like?" Or or they're guilt-tripped. >> Mhm. like by their parents where it's. like they're like, "I could never do. that to my mom, like she's loved me. since day one, like you just turned up. in my life 2 years ago, like what do you. do when your partner's feeling that way? Yeah. Well, I think you help your. partner to understand that this is a. very loving thing for the relationship.

with the parent, too. So, you're not. telling the parent, "I don't want you in. our lives." You're saying, "I want you. in our lives. We both want you in our. lives, but we want you in our lives in a. way that makes us feel like we're. enjoying our time with you. And if it. becomes this thing where we're not. enjoying our time with you and it. becomes problematic, we're going to be. spending less time with you and Mom, I. don't want that and my wife doesn't want. that. We both want to spend time with. you, we just want it to be enjoyable.

Mhm. So, we're asking that you not talk. about this, whatever the issue is, or. you not do this, or you not tell my wife. to do this, or you not criticize because. that makes it not enjoyable and then. we're going to see you less. And we love. you so much that we feel comfortable. saying this to you. If we didn't love. you and we didn't care how much we saw. you, we wouldn't be bringing this up. I'm bringing this up because I love you. and I want to be able to see you. Mhm. Yeah. >> And I think when people when you set. boundaries in a loving way, when you. say, "I want to see more of you. I want.

to be able to continue to see you. I'm. not pushing you away, I'm pulling you. close. But the way to pull you close is. to make sure that we have a good time. together." Yeah. Yeah, and I find that. sometimes and and can be different in. every relationship, but often this at. least in the people I know, the pressure. often falls on. the man who feels like he's in between. his mom and his wife in that in that. kind of a setup where at least those are. the ones that I'm aware of and I'm sure. it has takes all sorts of forms. But.

it's often quite a heavy pressure that I. know a lot of men feel. And they're. like, "I don't want to let my mom down. and I don't want to let my wife down and. now I'm stuck in between these two. things." Yeah. And it's almost like, "Who do I choose?" And I feel like I. have to choose a side. >> Right, but you're not choosing, you're. actually choosing to bring everyone. together. You're saying, "I want us all. to be able to be together.". And so, what I'm doing is I'm making. sure that it that we can spend more time. together. Yeah, that's great advice and. I really hope that reframe is kind of,

you know, permeates. One of the things I. imagine you see a lot in therapy is one. partner has forced the other partner to. come there. Maybe in couples therapy, it's hard for two people to feel equally. as excited. Maybe if they're premarital, that may be more equal, but when it's. reactive, it's definitely one saying, "We need to go to therapy." And someone. may feel forced. One thing I found that a lot of people. say to me is, "Jay, I just can't get my. partner to open up." Like, whether it's. in therapy, whether it's with me, I'm. asking them, I'm talking to them. I'm. just like, "I just want to know what you. feel." Like, even with the question you.

said earlier of like, "Hey, I I I have a. dream to get married, what's your take. on it?" And they'll be like, "I don't. know." Or they'll they'll go quiet when. it's like "Hey, we need to go talk to. your parents about this because they're. getting really involved." And they just. go quiet, they don't know what to say. And they constantly feel that these. their partner doesn't have the capacity. to open up. And I find this especially. with young couples where they're just. like, "My partner doesn't have an. emotional vocabulary." Like, they don't. have the ability How have you encouraged. people in those scenarios to be able to.

open up or help their partners open up. or create a safe space when a lot of. people don't have that skill and that. ability to actually even know what. they're feeling and thinking. Yeah, you. have to create the space for that person. to feel comfortable opening up. So, often people who can't open up or have a. hard time with it, they were not given. the space before. So, when they opened. up, someone would say, "Oh, no, you. don't feel that way." You know, right? So, when they were growing up, they'd. say, "You know, I'm upset about this or.

I'm sad about this." And the parent. would say, "No, don't be sad. Let's go. get ice cream." Right? So, there was no. space for the sadness. Or, "I'm really. angry about this." "Oh, you're. overreacting. You're so sensitive.". So, they don't tell someone that they're. angry about something. Or, "I'm really. worried about this." "Oh, don't worry. It'll all work out." Or, "What do you. mean you're worried about that? Why are. you always so worried about everything?". Mhm. So, they never felt like they had a. space for their feelings to be received. and held. We talk about in therapy the.

the concept of feeling felt. What does. it mean to feel felt? And I love that. expression because I think that when you. want someone to open up, they want to. feel felt. They want to know that you're. going to receive whatever they have to. offer in a compassionate way and in a. way that feels connected. Mhm. So, when. you tell someone, "Tell me what you're. feeling. Open up." That feels like so. much pressure. As opposed to just, you know, being with. them. So, maybe you you start with.

something like, "Hey, I'm feeling really. this about this, you know. What was that. like for you?". And they might say, "It was fine.". Cuz they don't know. "Did you have a good time? You know, did. it make you sad when this happened? It. made me sad, but maybe you didn't feel. that way.". You know, just just helping them to have. the vocabulary. There's this thing. called a feelings wheel. And a lot of. people only learns like with the colors, the primary colors, right? So, red, yellow, blue, right? And then if you mix.

red and yellow, you get orange. And. there's more nuance. And if you put more. yellow, it becomes more yellowy orange, right? And so, people only know like. happy, sad, mad. But they don't know like, "I felt. frustrated. I felt scared. I felt. vulnerable. I felt anxious. But where. did you feel the anxiety?" "Well, I felt. it in my belly. I felt it in my chest.". Right? So, there's so much nuance. And. for people who don't open up, they often. only have those three primary emotions. And then they don't really know how to. describe what they're feeling. So, you.

can mirror that for them and model that. when you talk about your feelings. Like, "I was really afraid of that. And. I was really angry, but actually. underneath the ang- anger with my. friend, I was feeling hurt.". "And I realized I was feeling really. hurt by her behavior and it seemed like. I was angry. But I'm feeling really. neglected.". And so, you know, "Did you ever feel. that way? Have you ever felt, you know, we whatever it is." But it just like. it's just becomes part of the air. It's. not like, "Sit down, face me, and tell.

me how you're feeling. Open up to me.". Yeah. >> That feels like so much pressure, but it. just like it's in the air and they've. never lived in that environment before. You have to remember. So, it's just this. is a new planet that they've landed on. And here's it's like a new Let's say. it's a new city. And in this city, we. speak a different language. And we speak. in the language of emotion. And they're. going to start to pick up the language. bit by bit, but they're not going to be. fluent right out the gate. So, don't. say, "Speak French to me.". It's like, "Oh, here's this new. language. You'll pick up a few words. here and there." That's so good. That's.

such a great visual. and analogy. Like if I turn up in a. different city or a different country. and someone just expected me to know how. to speak that language, I would feel so. much pressure. And And actually, we've. all experienced that where you're like, "I don't even want to try and say a. sentence cuz I feel I'm going to sound. so stupid.". >> Mhm. It's that comfortability and that. could take a while. Love isn't supposed. to be easy. And it doesn't survive on. perfection. It survives on truth. It. deepens when you stop performing and. start practicing.

Strong relationships aren't found, they're built. So, whether you're. healing from betrayal, navigating. change, or building something new, always start with honesty. And it's okay if yours looks different. Each and every one does. All that matters is that it's real. If. you enjoyed this podcast, you're going. to love my conversation with Michelle. Obama, where she opens up on how to stay. with your partner when they're changing. and the four check-ins you should be.

doing in your relationship. We also talk. about how to deal with relationships. when they're under stress. If you're. going through something right now with. your partner or someone you're seeing, this is the episode for you. No wonder. our kids are struggling. We have a new. technology and we've just taken it in. hook, line, and sinker. And we have to. be mindful for our kids. They'll just be. thumbing through this stuff, you know, their their minds never sleeping.