DREW BARRYMORE ON: If You STRUGGLE To Find & Keep Real Love, WATCH THIS! | Jay Shetty

I don't stay stuck and I don't stay. depressed. that. I'm almost like, "No, you got to get. over that really fast. Don't blame. people for stuff. Don't stay stuck. Get. on with it. Get out of bed. Put one foot. in front of the other. Start doing. dishes. You'll start feeling better, I. promise.". The best-selling author and host. The number one health and wellness. podcast. On Purpose with Jay Shetty. Jay, I think you were one of the like. very first people who graced us with. your presence on our show. You know,

like we were such a new show and nobody. wanted to talk. It was. the height of the pandemic. People. really didn't know what to say. I get. it. I didn't know what to say. I was. like, "I feel like ironically isn't the. world telling us to be quiet and listen. and I have to go find my voice right. now?". I know. very counterintuitive. But you were kind enough. and I you know, I get it. It's like I. think there was probably.

like, "What is this show and why would. we want to talk about stuff you know, right now?" Um but there was also such a. need for community at that time. But I. just thank you for coming on so early. and daring to come on something that we. ourselves were literally in. establishment mode. We were trying to. set it up for success in the way that. like we wanted it to be something we. loved and believed in, but everything. was going to have to be done.

differently. Yeah, definitely. You know, in 2019 when we were making. the show, it was not going to be that. show. But what did we keep? What did we. change? How do we pivot? How do we move. forward? So thank you because. It makes a difference when people see. you coming on the show then they think. "Oh, that's safe. Maybe I'll try that.". Well, no. I mean. So thank you. No, I was actually so grateful that you. thought of me and invited me and the. team reached out to me. I was so looking. forward to connecting with you. I think. you just have such a positive presence.

in everything you do and your energy. radiates. When I met you backstage, I. was telling my team because Paul was. here with me last time when we came in. person. Helena wasn't and I was saying. to them backstage, I was like, "That. interaction we had, had the lights been. on backstage, I would have shared it. because it's such a special interaction. Like the energy you greeted me with and. the warmth that you had for me, I was. just like, "Wow, I feel like I'm meeting. a long-lost friend." And it was just. such a special moment and no one got to. see that. It was totally behind cameras,

but I wanted people to know because. that's who you are and that's how you. appear to everyone and approach. everyone, whether you're backstage, on. camera, off camera, wherever you are. And so, I saw that before and I'm so. grateful I got to see in person. I think it's also good to be wary of. people who are different in different. places and rooms, you know? That was. always something like growing up in the. job that I did, um there was a lot of. performative uh people um who were. different in different rooms and then.

there were people who were. attitude-nally. um different in different rooms and it. was like a very interesting juggling act. to see like, "Why is this person. different now it here as opposed to in. the other room?" Well, they Oh, they. were performing. They were doing a job. That's why they're different. Why is. this person a little different here or. there? Oh, it's because of the person. Oh, that's interesting. So, they don't. treat everybody the same. Hmm, noted. Where are you on? Where are you relaxed?

Where are you utterly yourself? Where. So, human behavior was always like so. fascinating for me cuz I was trying to. gauge like what kind of human do I want. to be. So, I was always looking at. everybody's, you know, actions to sort. of put on the sifter. um of like, "What do I want to keep and. what do I want to just go away and fall. to the bottom. How How early do you think you started. to do that? Because I think that that's. a skill that we develop over time and I.

like what you said that it's not as. simplistic as saying, "Oh, well, that's. a bad person." It's like, "No, that's. their job. They're performing. They're. working." And then sometimes it's the. person, sometimes it's the profession. But how early did you start noticing and. observing? Very early. My mom also was. like I started working at 11 months old, but I remember my mom was part of this. 11 months? Oh, yeah. In a diaper. Not a euphemism. I mean, literally, I. started my job in a diaper. It was a commercial, and people thought.

that like ET was maybe my first job, but. it wasn't by a long shot. I had done a. lot of. TV films, a lot of commercials, and even a feature film. So, I felt. comfortable at that point when I went. into ET. So, I'm I feel lucky that I was. blessed, that I wasn't like a quivering. lamb in the field. Like I was always. very emboldened as a kid. I I I had. so much like moxie. I feel like I'm.

probably a lot more shy, respectful, and. cautious now as an adult. When I was a. kid, I was so fearless. Um but I remember my mom was a part of. like this theater group at. the Lee Strasberg Institute. Um he's a very famous acting teacher. He. taught um Paul Newman and um Marilyn. Monroe and Al Pacino. They were all a part of like his. you know, I wouldn't even know how to.

put it, but group. Um and she was doing. a play there, and I remember like this. one woman who would go in the back every. night before her play, and she would. just lay on the stage in a quiet room, and like. beat her chest and cry out so primal. And. that was such an interesting thing to. witness as a kid. I was like, "Oh, that's how she does it. Like, that's how. she gets herself to be emotional and. cry." Um so, I was always clocking like.

whether it was how to do this job or. really I was hyper aware ever since I. can remember about how people treated. each other. A lot of cliches is like, "Ugh, if someone's like rude to a. waiter." Like, that was me as an like. infant. I was so upset and put off by. people who weren't nice to everyone. Um. and there were plenty of people in the. job that I was in that were a little. coddled and you know, but then I also.

saw people who. you thought wouldn't be shy because they. were a performer, but they were. Um so, I was like, "Well, don't hold. that against them. That's just their. real personality.". Like, I'm thinking I'm going to get this. big flamboyant, gregarious, you know, loud person and they're not on right. now. They're turned off and who they are. is actually this very gentle, quiet. soul. Oh, you're the world's greatest.

comedian, but you're kind of dark and. moody. Okay. That wasn't what I was expecting, nor is. it what I want, but I have to accept. that's who you are. Yeah. Okay, interesting. So, you're observing. everybody so you can make fun of it all, but if you let people in, you won't be. able to. You keep a guard up on purpose. Understood. So, I guess I was just. always trying to figure out like why. people did what they did, but I still to. this day like cruelty, arrogance,

rudeness, short-temperedness. is just I don't have time for it. And. even worse, if I am ever guilty of those. things, oh my god, I take myself to task. probably worse than I would anyone else. Yeah, that's it's it's hard, isn't it? I. You've reminded me of. when when I was in the monastery, there. was one monk who was known for being. pretty negative and being that way. So, he had this reputation where he would.

always be negative, he'd be rude to. people, he'd be you know, he had what. you're kind of describing like there was. a bit of arrogance, there was a bit of. bravado, there was a bit of rudeness, uh. lack of sensitivity, everything that. you're mentioning. And it's really interesting because. I used to really annoy me because I kind. of have a similar trait to you where I. don't appreciate someone treating anyone. uh special or not special or or good or. bad. I And and I think it's a hard thing.

to manage when you're a busy. individual. So, I'm just get guessing in. your case sense it's very difficult. So, I would often complain about him because. he was always criticizing, complaining, and comparing. And so, I would often. complain about him to the other monks. I'd be like, "This guy, like, you know, he's just always doing this." What's. this monk's deal? Literally, can you. imagine? Like, that's literally my. question. And and and it was really interesting. because there are two sides to this and. I want to hear your thoughts to this. One thing one of the monks said to me,

he he looked to he looked to me and he. said, "What don't you like about this. individual?". And I said, "He's always comparing, complaining, and criticizing.". And he said to me, "What are you doing. right now?". I said, "I'm comparing, complaining, and. criticizing.". And it was like this like moment of like. I had become who I was And he said, "How. did you stop yourself?" is my question. because you're very mindful, you've. always. I've seen you the few moments I've spent. with you or whether we message, it's. always been wonderful. How did you stop. yourself from letting that pain get so.

make you cold or make you harsh to that. person also? I think it made me more. kind and empathetic. And and you know, I. also grew up in a job that's like heavy. on gossip or can be and rumor and. hearsay and stuff. And I found that in. my life, everybody loves an interesting. story. I mean, we're all of our ears. perk up when we're like think we're. going to hear something a little, you know, salacious, a little crazy, a. little something. It's something to kind.

of marvel at. But I realized that I I am. not a gossiper, you know? Like I'm more. I'll keep your secrets. Um and it was. sort of the same thing. I grew up um. around a lot of people who also kind of. talk trash about people. And I was like, I do not want to be around that nor be. that person. So it also made me. like gravitate towards people who didn't. do that. Um and it's funny you say cuz you know,

we get busy and we have a lot of. responsibilities. So I can get sort of. intense or it's seemingly short-tempered. cuz I'm tired and I'm trying to kind of. barrel through things like. You do? Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. Okay, that. is so refreshing to hear. 100% like I ask my wife. Cuz I was going. to ask. my wife on the show. Yeah, I I love your. wife so much. I mean, you two were put. on this planet like you are Freud's. Imago theory like two people who look.

alike are drawn to each other in a. mirror-like sort of look in the water, you know, and see your own reflection. and not based in narcissism. It's based. in like a familiarity. No, it really. it's a beautiful theory. Um. And no, so in those moments I I'm tired, I'm exhausted. I I seem a little curt, a. little short-tempered, a little intense. I would say 99.9%. of the time. I never think I'm right.

for being that way. And. I will find myself maybe justifying here. or there and even as I'm doing it I'm. like you are so full of crap right now. I really hold myself so critically. accountable. for. wanting to go, "Okay, well then you. can't take this water back and put it in. the bottle. It's spilled all over the. floor. So, how about next time try to. remember something about this that can.

be like a trigger so that you can handle. it differently." I think so much of my. adult life is becoming about the mastery. of reaction. Knowing. I'm the only thing I can control, I. cannot control. And I work really deeply. with this therapist who I I I just I. respect. Um he's honestly one of the smartest. individuals I've ever met. Like I'm talking like one hand like.

a true voice. And he quit me at one. point. Like that's how you know high. road this human being is. He doesn't. deal in toxicity. If you're not getting. better, he's not feeding off of that and. thinking, "Well, this person's going to. stay with me for many years." He's like, "Our work cannot actually occur here. So, I'm going to step away." And I was. like, "God, you're good. I love you even. more. I respect you so much." And I. fought to break a cycle and a pattern.

that he just after 8 years was like, "I. I can't do this anymore.". And I it was drinking and I when I was. about 2 years and I'm I'm not sober. I. don't work a program. I have alcohol in. my house like I party with my friends, you know, I that so I'm not. when I say I don't drink alcohol it's. just like a one lane choice of realizing. something that didn't work for me. I. thought I would master my whole life. I don't. I can't. So, after I had.

stopped for about 2 years because. drinking was like a symptom of many. problems, but it was the thing that. wasn't allowing me to get to those next. places. I asked him, "Will you please. reconsider taking me back? I've put in 2. years. I'm not stopping. I'm feeling. really good. Um. this isn't for anyone else. It's not for. you. It's for me. I know that's what. you've always wanted it. If you do. things for other people, it's so. dangerous. They can just take it away. It's a a burden. It's you know, there's.

no ownership in doing things for other. people when it comes to. that really crucial work. Um cuz you I. love doing things for other people. It's. just a matter of and I think I'm a total. codependent. Like with my kids, like. yeah, they're my whole source of life, joy, happiness, and you know, motivation. So be it. I'm a codependent. Who cares? Like. but I'm also my own individual. They're. their own individuals.

And. we've got to take care of our side of. the street. So, I asked, "Could we. go back to working together?" And we did. and now we're doing the best work we've. done in 10 years. And a lot of the work. I do with Barry now, so much of. this word comes up which is inner. Mhm. And that's not something even though I. think I was really in touch with. spirituality when I was a teenager. It. was so much a part of like my salvation.

and raising myself and getting. emancipated at 14 and living on my own. and being an adult my whole life and not. having any semblance of like what. society says kids are supposed to do. with like go to bed on time, go to. school, like eat a balanced meal, all. that stuff. Like I just didn't have that. in my universe. Um. but I love when Berry uses the word. inner. Um this rich inner life I'm. trying to build. That is the place in.

which I can tap into reaction, um. processing, control, all of those things. It's like. there's really kind of only one place. that that truly can take place, and it's. the inner world. And I. have spent my life being an extrovert. and going outwards, and that can be. being a love junkie or being someone who. loves to be playful and call it perform.

or just put myself out there or. affection or. jokes and humor or my love of. human beings. Like it's all out out out, and this is the first time that I feel. like I'm really much more. excited and ready to do this inner work. And it's cool cuz it is it is the place. where you can do so much more because a. lot of those things you want to do with.

the outside world are not really. possible or not really attainable. Like. control. Like you know, uh changing the way. things are or someone out there or. situation or the world at large. These. things are not controllable, but inside. your world, inside your inner self, there's much to be done. Yeah, but it. sounds like with this over-analyzing, reflective.

self. mastery work that you're doing, it. sounds like at the same time as that, there's also a sense of self-forgiveness. to be able to move on, especially from. knowing that as a child, a you wouldn't. have known about the inner in that. depth. You wouldn't have had the tools. You were exposed to things as a child. that 99% of children wouldn't be exposed. to. So, there also seems seems to be a. sense of forgiveness for today and also. forgiveness for that time. Is that And.

you know, it's funny cuz I do think a. lot of kids go through just crazy stuff, you know. Absolutely, yeah. When I was in an. institution for 2 years that my mom put. me in, it was. it was an adult ward too, but it was. also a kid ward. So, all these other kids I was in with, I. was like, well, they're going through it. too. Whatever their roads, you know, took them to. you know, self-destruction or abuse of a. substance or hurting themselves or being.

out of control to the point where their. parents didn't know what to do with. them. Um a lot of that is usually cries. for help and probably not their fault. always. Yes, of course. Um but I was like, well, I guess I'm not. alone in, you know, trying to. you know, I'm I'm not the only one who. are experiencing what we see as. extraordinary circumstances, especially. at a young age. They're heightened and. they seem wilder to adults. You're 14 or 13 and you're doing these. things. Like, oh, if you were in your.

20s, I guess that'd be more normal. Wow, that's such a good point. Yeah, I've. never thought about it like that. Yeah, that's a good point. And then I think. about kids who are, you know, challenged. economically or trying to get, you know, in somewhere or they have to take care. of their families or they're latchkey. kids or they're trying to get into this. country or they're, you know, doing. things that like again, once again, we're saying, oh, this is not what. children are supposed to do. So, I'm.

like convinced that I'm one of many that. just kind of had stuff to deal with that. we wish ideally kids didn't have to deal. with, but a lot of them are. Yes. I just. was never taught. like what forgiveness was of myself. But I've learned along the way far ahead. of self-forgiveness cuz this is a very. new concept for me. So it's super fresh. It's like an open wound and it is not. sewed up shut yet by any means. I need.

stitches and some isopropyl. Like I'm working on it. But I always was forgiving of other. people. I didn't I grew up in a very. unjudgmental landscape. You know, like. for better or worse Hollywood is real. open-minded. It's real liberal and I. don't mean politically. I just mean like. artistic people are kind of like a live. and let live group, which is super cool. And that was great growing up. I was. like, oh so we can just kind of let.

people be. Oh, okay. Like cool. Um they're not wrong for being that way. They're just eccentric or that's their. lifestyle choice or that's their. orientation or whatever. It was great to. grow up that way. I I was always. forgiving of other people and like. open-minded for like whoever they are. I. realized. later in life that it turns out. that I thought forgiveness was a gift to. someone else. You forgiving them was giving them a. gift.

I suppose it is. I never knew that there is a an irony of. all ironies of that you are finally. liberated. And you can't forgive to get. to liberation cuz it's fake and you. don't get the reward. Mhm. You have to. truly literally go. I with every part of me authentically. and without wanting anything in return. I'm not even thinking about myself. I. just forgive. I forgive you. I forgive.

this. Then all of a sudden you're like, oh no. and now I feel really good. How weird. But if I've ever tried to forgive. something to feel better, it doesn't. work. That's not. Yeah, it's not a technique. It's not a. button. Yeah. it's not a technique. It's this true I. also found the ultimate form of. liberation is change. When you like. stopping drinking for me, and again, not. sober. Like don't that's not it. I just.

don't drink. It's the only thing that's. you would that's my lifestyle choice. I. was so held back by this one thing my. entire life that I swore I would master, that why wouldn't I be convinced of that. I'm I'm. not capable of change because I couldn't. change it. So, I'm just a failure in my. inner voice and narrative. My only. evidence in front of me is you're not. capable of change cuz you haven't. changed this thing. And then once I did,

it was like. finally I believe that I'm capable of. change. And that's you know, these. things are symptoms, they're not the. only problem. You can't like stop. something that isn't working for you and. everything else falls into place. There's a lot of work around it that has. to be done. And Barry's point wasn't. like if you stop drinking all your. problems are going to go away. He's like. we just can't get to the work cuz this. shame and guilt and like pattern is just. is going to prevent us from getting to.

the next level. So, I'm out. And I was. just like God, I love this so much and I. knew he was right. Yeah, your therapist. quitting on you is pretty that's pretty. inspiring for you. cuz most therapists are like, oh, you're. still broken. Fantastic. I'll see you. next week. I'm I still have a job. And so I think if you're seeking. guidance, wisdom, therapy, spiritual leadership, whatever you are.

seeking out in this world, if you sense. that person continues to feed and not. help you grow and is fine with you. staying in the same place, I don't think. that's a good sign. Yeah, but I I love that emphasis you're. placing that. it wasn't ever about the external. change. It wasn't just about oh, if you. stop drinking alcohol then all your. problems are solved. It was going on. this inner journey for you and I I. wonder when you're doing this, you. brought up two really important things. You brought up shame and guilt and I. think shame and guilt.

deep down whether you meet someone who. seems confident or whether you meet. someone who's insecure, shame and guilt. are right there, right? Even when. someone feels confident or is is acting. confident, often there's a shame and. guilt of some part of them they're. trying to hide and if someone's feeling. insecure, it's because they shame and. guilt themselves. Walk us through a bit. about how those two were these bad. friends of yours for a while and then. you were eventually able to let them go. I'm just letting them go, especially.

with stuff with my mom. Um. you know, I just I think most people. idealize this sort of nuclear family and. I just have felt pain and guilt and. shame my whole life that that wasn't our. story. All right, our life experience. Um it hurts me to know that like. there is pain there for her, for me. It. just destroys me. So, I'm I'm working on.

that um because I'm like I'm 47. I can't. I don't mean to be morbid, but I don't. want to die carrying this with me. Like. I I will shift this. It's time. It's. been long enough. I put enough time in. So, I'm working on that with Barry right. now and I'm making some really good. strides and it's really hard, you know? I I think. these things are not easy. I I felt a. lot of guilt and shame around drinking. cuz like a lot of my sort of least.

desirable experiences had probably. something to do with me being drunk, you. know? So I'm like amazing that you would. keep doing something that like doesn't. serve you. Um I felt pain and guilt and. shame every time I did feel like I acted. in a way that wasn't as gracious and. patient as I wish I could always be. Um. these are really go-to overly available. emotions that I am just like I can't be.

nearing 50 and still. function like this. So like, you know, it's like kicking out bad roommates. You're just like, "Guess what? You are a sloppy, horrible person. You. have bad energy. You're negative. You're. messy. And like I can't live with you. anymore. Like I want to get my own place. and keep it tidy. And Jesus, like how. have I managed to put up with this for. so long?". Yeah. It's like that's how I feel inside.

my body. And shame and guilt are. roommates I've had my whole life that I. totally resent and like wish I could. just give an eviction notice to. And I'm. starting to like grow a pair and. actually really take charge cuz I think. I know like. I'm running out of time. Like we don't. live forever. And nobody wants to think. about death or dying, but it's an. inevitability that we all share in.

common and we really don't even know. actually when it's coming. So there's a. part of me that's just like I can't do. this anymore. I'm fatigued. I'm. exhausted. I'm desperate to know what. the other side of this feels like. You. know, we used to love 45 records and. always the popular hit song was on the A. side and then we would play the B side. and be like, this song's actually. awesome. Yeah. I'm like, what is the B-side of my. life? Mhm. What is the life that isn't so. corroded with self-loathing, guilt,

shame, beating up on myself all the. time. People are like, you seem so. positive. I'm like, you have no idea. what I'm dealing with on the inside. It's so. hard and heavy some days. Mhm. Um but one thing that's I do I'm I. am glad is I don't stay stuck and I. don't stay depressed. that. I can I can hear that in what. you're saying and how you're saying it. I'm almost like, no, you got to get over. that really fast. Don't blame people for. stuff. Don't stay stuck. Get on with it.

Get out of bed. Put one foot in front of. the other. Start doing dishes. You'll. start feeling better, I promise. Like, cleaning is a very spiritual act and. Yeah. put on a song and like, all of a. sudden you'll be shaking your butt and. like. moving your body and like. Or jumping in the rain or Yeah, endorphins will start to come. So, I've. had these fantasies of being Greta Garbo. in my bed and my friends tending to my. bedside or talking on the side on the. phone like, oh, we're really worried. about her. You know, it just doesn't.

happen cuz it's just like I I just I'm. like oh god, like except for funny. enough with my drinking, my friends did. do that. They Yeah. We got to We got to. get in there and be honest with her. And. that's true friends. Friends who kick. your butt and hold up mirrors to you. Mhm. or tell you when they don't like. what they see or want you to see your. reflection and feel good about it. That's true friendship. I'm all in for. tough love. So, I I've been, you know, when I was in the institution when I was.

13, they assigned me a therapist, Dr. George Blair, I'll never forget. Um and they had these groups um a couple. nights a week where they would invite. all the families and and they would put. someone in the circle. and they would talk to their family Wow. openly about what led to this crazy. place we were all in. And it wasn't like. a rehabilitation center. It was a. full-blown like institution. It was very. hardcore. It was much more One Flew Over. the Cuckoo's Nest. It wasn't like.

Promises in Malibu. Got it. This was like real deal North. Valley like 2 years of you're locked in. there. This is not a place you're. allowed to leave. If you try to leave, they will deal with you accordingly. And. it's not pretty. So, but what what they. would do is they would have these. families sit around in a circle. and they would encourage. There was no force, but it was sort of, you know, it was mandatory. Mhm. They would sit that person down and they.

would sit them. across from their family and then all. the families would sit around and they. would talk honestly about what led to. them being here, what was missing, what. wasn't working with their family. There. was sort of like you know, non-aggressive confrontation about like. you know, the parents were just as. accountable as the kids. Um it was incredible. Wow. And it it shaped my life forever.

It wasn't like you know, we're all. performers and we put it all out there. Like that wasn't what did it. Yeah. I am witnessing when you don't. sweep things under the carpet, when you. do not let them rot and start to stink, when you are willing to be brave and put. it out there and discuss it out in the. open, it wasn't even in front of others. It. was just to find your voice and talk. directly to that person. It forever formed me. It's like that was.

such an important life journey that. would color my path for the rest of my. life. And weirdly, when I found out this. show might actually happen in 2019. I was like, not only of someone who's. been sitting on the other side of an. interview chair my whole life and you. kind of get fatigue on those same. questions. Like, I was like, what if. this could weirdly be a little like that. group night that we would have a couple.

times a week where we just sit in some. chairs in a group of people and talk. And we keep it real and a lot of it was. really funny. People laughed. It was. heart-wrenching. It was emotional. It. was humorous. It was insightful. It was raw. And I think I'm really. having an aha moment or an epiphany. right now because I'm like, am I running. this show the way we did in those rooms? Like, it just was really cool to find.

out that talking it out. and being brave to tell your truths was. a good thing. Those sound like some of the most. special skills and tools that every one. of us could use. so early on. And the fact that you feel. you're still using them after all this. time. is pretty remarkable. I have not associated the two until this. moment. But, I wasn't necessarily getting it. from my job growing up. That wasn't as.

much as it was a like, have all your. emotions available. It was very. structured in the work. Um, and it was. very spontaneous and creative and free, but it was for a purpose. And if. anything, you were kind of pretending to. be a different person. But, like pulling. on your real emotions. I had never. experienced up until that point anything. like it. And I've definitely conducted. myself. my whole life since I got out of there. as if I still go to those group nights. Like, I want to put it out there. I want.

to I want to encourage other people to. not sit on things, but discuss it. Um, be bold. Um, and not afraid of what. other people are thinking and feeling. when they're digesting your sort of. deepest stuff. Mhm. Letting out secrets can be really. liberating. And I still feel like I have. plenty and I'm just now like willing to. even look at some like.

secrets. And and being afraid of what people are. going to think is is not good. It's not. good at all. What do you think was what. made it safe? Because I feel like that's. what it is. We think that environments. need to be loving or they need to be. caring, but really it's a sense of. safety that we're looking for. What made. it feel safe? The truth. The truth and. the honesty and the lack of judgment. It that's what made it safe. That people weren't going to nobody.

alienated each other. No one treated. each other less than we went on business. as usual. We felt like we knew each. other better. We were in an environment where people. literally like. kind of if you wanted to talk about it, you could. If you didn't, you didn't. have to. But like. nobody made each other feel bad. So I. think truth and not feeling judged or is. is what leads leads to safety. Mhm. Um, one of the things that Barry talked to. me about and I'll apply it to this also.

is. if you're if you're not feeling safe, how can you make yourself feel safe? Mhm. If if you're not getting that from. others, how do you make it okay for you? And. I went on a date with this guy. I. thought it was the best date. I mean, it. really was. It was like so good. And. I we made a plan for that weekend and we. were texting back and forth and it was. so cute and I was like and I really. liked him. I was like, what a nice guy. It's I was attracted to him. I loved his.

job because he was, you know, um in the. news business and like I love news and. I'm like, "Oh my god, this is so cool.". I never heard from him again. Like I. guess that's what you call getting. ghosted. I was like, "Whoa, that is so. Oh, wow, that's so weird. Um okay." And. I was talking to Barry and there's this. Sex and the City where. this boyfriend of hers named Jack Berger. um breaks up with her on a Post-it note.

And it became this pop culture. phenomenon. And the Post-it note reads, "I'm sorry, I can't. Don't hate me.". Now, we all took that and ran with it. The line was, "I This cannot be the day. I get broken up with on a Post-it." So. they have this whole crazy adventure, but all of like pop culture and society. was like, "This is the worst thing. ever.". I'm like, Barry, that is the most giving.

thing that I could ever ask for in. modern society being a single girl. I. swear to god, that's I'm sorry. Oh, okay, great. I. can't. Thank you. Now I know where. you're at. I know to move on. This is so. informative that I appreciate the. gracefulness and the graciousness of you. like just telling me there's no there. there. And don't hate me. Okay, I get.

it. You're being self-effacing. You know. this is maybe not kosher, but that's. okay because it's your truth. You cannot. be. We can't be mad at people cuz they're. not what we want them to be. And I was like, I just wish I could get. that Jack Berger Post-it note, Barry. And he goes, "Well, you can write it to. yourself.". Yes. And I literally. was like, "Barry, you just took out all the frustration,

anxiety, uncertainty, unfinished. business, lack of control, helplessness. I feel. I feel good. I feel empowered. I. feel like I want to get on a bullhorn. and share this wisdom. Maybe this is a. start. It's like, "Oh my god, it was the. biggest gift I could have gotten." So, I. think we can apply that to a lot of. things. It's like, "I'm not feeling safe. right now because I just told my truth.". Okay, then maybe you can tell yourself.

why it was a good thing, why you are. safe, that there will not be. consequences that are unsurvivable that. come out of this scenario, and help. yourself off the ledge by giving and. fulfilling for yourself what we normally. just tend to automatically look outward. and to others for. I think what you just. said right now is not only great for. someone who's receiving that type of. note,

but it's also important for someone who. often postpones that note. So, we know. so many people that are in a. relationship that don't want to be in. it, but they don't want to be seen as. the bad person, so they'll let it stay. on for another 6 months, another 12. months, another 18 months. And those people are in a prison. Correct. They're in a horrible jail that they. have put themselves in and not dealing. with that. I have a question for you. Yeah. Okay. How do you tell people to receive love?

I think I'm really good at giving it. I'm great. at giving it to my daughters and to my. friends, but I've noticed how much of. like my history with the romantic space. I am. so. stuck and I'm the person who doesn't. want to be stuck.

And. I don't care necessarily what others do. or what happens. I want to know what. work I could do. to. take my walls down, believe and trust. cuz I am really trying to figure that. out right now. I've sort of told myself. I'm okay, I'm fine. I'm lucky I have two. kids, so I. if it comes to and I have these amazing.

friends and I have these beautiful. co-workers, my cup really runneth over. to the point where like. I don't feel like I need love. I've I. I'm I'm abundant. I swear to God I'm still scared or. nervous or I don't have any information. that shows me that that's a safe space. So, how do I do that?

I want to get you some tissues. No pressure. Thank. Well, my first answer is going to be I. have two two things. One thing was what. would Barry say? It seems like he's Isn't he awesome? a Yeah, he's on a roll right now. Like. we should go to Barry. Like Barry, can. we call you in and like dial you in. right now? Uh I want to meet you, but. no, genuinely like what would he say? obviously I'm sure he's shared some. beautiful wisdom and insight with you. A. few things come to mind. The first thing. is I think that we've placed romantic. love and I'm probably.

people may not agree with this, but I. just want everyone to sit with this for. a second and I really do believe that. this is something. you will appreciate or you'll be able to. receive. I really do believe that. And if anyone else doesn't, please sleep. on it. Please think about it. I really do believe that we have placed. romantic love. on the pedestal. and the number one position podium of. love. And so, since we were born and raised, we've been told that finding the one.

is the ultimate expression and. experience of love. And what's really. fascinating is that if you look at any. of the wisdom traditions, they don't. feel that way. All the wisdom traditions would suggest. that the love that you have for your. co-workers, your friends, your family, the stranger on the street, the person. driving the car, the. uh person that you just bumped into at. the grocery store, at the coffee shop, like the love that you can embody and. experience and share with that person.

and receive from that person, that love that you can share with anyone. and everyone you meet, that is actually. the ultimate expression of love. And so, what you just said that. you're great at giving love to everyone, you have this beautiful full cup around. you, but it's the wiring that's been put into. our minds that without this, we are. incomplete, unfulfilled, and. undeserving. And so, I'm not saying that as a way of.

saying to people, you don't need to find. someone to love. I'm just saying that. don't ever let that be it. Uh there's there's so much more to what. love truly is, and so. we've got to change our. order of what's love. You know, you look. at the wisdom traditions and they'll. say, "The closest thing to unconditional. love is a mother's love for her child.". Yeah. Like that is like the closest. thing to real unconditional love. Like. it's not talking about a love between. two people who romantically got.

involved. Like that's beautiful. I'm not. saying it's not beautiful. I'm just. saying it's not. it. I I think it's Okay, first of all, your answer is exactly what I was meant. to hear. Because I do feel that pressure. Like it's funny how. I've been single for almost 7 years, and. it's been some of the happiest years of. my life. I feel so fulfilled. that I'm almost like my walls are about.

fear of someone coming in and like. tearing up the joint, you know? Like. I don't know if I'm. That's right. ready for someone to rock. the boat of the goodness of the balance. of the life I've ended up creating with. my daughters, my friends, my co-workers. When it didn't work out with their dad, that was. a thing that took me many years to. recover from cuz I so wanted the nuclear. family. It turns out we are literally.

having the next best thing, or maybe. even the plan that was in place all. along that we have We're so close. I. love his wife so much. My children and I. literally are stepmother Ali. I call her. our stepmother. You know? Like. that. She is the greatest. His mom and. dad are. Grammy and Poppy. I'm so close to them. His sister is one of my best friends, my. children's aunt, and the mother of our.

three silly cousins. Like I never dreamt. I'd have this big and beautiful of a. family. There's just not a legal. marriage there, but there's every single. thing else there. And since that. stopped, I've just been okay. And I think it is a lot of societal. pressure. And the reason I got so. emotional asking you is because. you're a monk, and probably had set. yourself up for the idea that you might.

not experience that. And I have probably given myself now, and you have a beautiful marriage. Um I have probably. told myself a narrative of you will not. have that kind of love, but it doesn't. mean that I feel any less fulfilled, but. I'm in a mindset of oh, that particular. type of love is not available to you. Yeah. So, I asked you of all people. because you.

probably had that narrative in your head. yourself at some point. definitely. I mean, that's And I. couldn't agree more with you. Like, that. needs to be on billboards and like, really. a much more common. confident understanding. of love is love. Which is the best kind. or the most important kind or the one. you think you're supposed to have, that. is not the point. Mhm. And boy, I knew I should ask you,

and I just got the most satisfactory. answer. I I've probably never verbalized. that answer to anyone else either in in. this sort of forum because I I genuinely. believed when you asked me that question. that you know, obviously knowing that. all types of love are available to. everyone is an important thing. That's. that's a separate thing to focus on, but. I think the hierarchy that we've placed. on love is what's distorting our vision. of what we need. follows you forever. Forever. I didn't have a relationship.

with my dad. He left before I was born. That that I accepted that. Mhm. You. know, but like, another woman will be. like, I'm 45 and not married or this or. that, and it's like, this society allows. that to really haunt you in a different. way than well, when it comes to love and. a man, my father and I didn't have that, but we move forward or maybe it holds us. back spiritually or emotionally, but not. societally. Yeah. You're right. We have. put that romantic love on a pedestal.

that seems to like if you don't have. that kind of love, it diminishes the. other kinds of loves which can be not. only as equally fulfilling and. satisfying. Gosh, that I really is Well, that's. society's problem, not our problem. know people who love their work, but. feel incomplete without that. I know. people who love their children, but feel. incomplete without that. I know people. who have the love of their entire tribe.

and community, but feel incomplete. without that because of the way it's. been portrayed. And I think that. when you also put something on a. pedestal like that, your expectations of. that also go up. And that's the main. reason why that one causes us the most. pain because we also have more. expectations of that partner than we do. of our kids, of our parents, of our. friends, of our family because of that. pedestal, too. So. agree more. I also like I think it's. bananas the way that people are so. affected by the person they're in a, you.

know, romantic relationship with. I. always compare it to Well, you wouldn't. be as so upset if your friend did that. Yeah. Yeah, that's. just be direct and you'd figure it out. and you'd fix it and you wouldn't take. it so personally and flip out and have. built up all these resentments. Like. friends have a delicate relationship and. a garden you still have to tend to, but. the reactions are way less heated. Why is it that the minute sexual stuff. is involved, we literally like flip out?

Like what is going on? Yeah. I'm like. that I've always been aware of. I'm like I really just wish I could have. a relationship like I do with my friends. cuz they're not so flipped out all the. time. definitely. deal. Like. We just deal. Yeah. I'm so glad you asked me that. Thank you. for opening up so much, but I was. wondering that Well, cuz I knew that you. had probably also believed that this was. not going to be available to you in life. and that is the place I've been in for.

the last 7 years. Yeah. But mine was elective and yours. was elective. Yes, absolutely. So I was like who better to ask this. question to Yeah. than someone who had. purposefully. shut themselves off to this in service. of, you know, for you it was your. spirituality, your religion, for me it. was for my kids. Yes. But again, I'm not codependent on. them. Like I'm so aware of like how much. that would screw everything up. Them, me, all of it. But they do inspire me to.

be my best self. No one's come along. No. romantic partner. No one ever. My. friends are the closest second. Mhm. But they are the people that have. come into my life that have truly. encouraged, forced, and inspired the. greatest change I've done in my life. Yes. And I think when it's elective and. it's not suppressed or repressed or it's. not done. demanded. demanded. When it's done in that way it.

can be really, really powerful because. you get to It's almost like if everyone. had a period of their life. I mean I I often ask this question to. people that I work with or clients that. I coach and it's that. I mean I started dating when I was 14. probably. Like dating. I don't know how. old you were when you started dating. My. first boyfriend was when I was like in. the third or fourth grade. Wow. Um and he was my first kiss. No one would have dated me in the third. or fourth grade. but that was it. Like it ended there. It. was it. It was very puppy love. It was.

very sweet and it was very innocent. Yeah. So I probably had my proper first. girlfriend when I was 14. And I often. ask people like between your first. girlfriend to where you are now or your. first boyfriend or whatever maybe till. now like how many days have you spent. single? And for most people that answer. isn't very long. Like I know people who. could say three weeks, maybe six months, maybe nine months. Like when you look at. our life and you start realizing that we. haven't really spent much time having. the opportunity to seek and experience.

all the other types of love because. we've been chasing this one type of love. to fulfill all of our needs. But. It's so interesting. you asked me that question, genuinely. Well, and I really am like I'm like I. haven't prioritized myself. What if I. actually made myself my partner. Absolutely. Like what if I invested in myself what. I've invested in so many other people. Yes. in the form of these big, beautiful.

chapter, adventurous, great romantic. adventures that I've had. One of which. led to the the greatest meaning of my. life, my kids. And I even feel weird saying my cuz. they're their own people, but our kids. Yeah. Um and it's been really great to. prioritize. myself and say "You know what? You have. a lot of work to do. Uh you got to figure out how to be a. parent. You've got to figure out how to. raise your.

like inner child that like you know, did. a lot of work back then, but there's. some adult perspective you didn't have, so there's new work that needs to be. done. You need to work on, you know, maybe. you've done the same thing over and over. in your life like occupationally. speaking. Like is there other stuff out. there or are you happy just doing things. over and over again the same way? Maybe. you are, but like give yourself the. chance to explore that.

Yeah. Um and I've had such big life. changes and I've been there to support. myself rather than again outward towards. somebody else. I'm really a caretaker. and we all imprint. So much of what. we're we're with becomes a very 50/50. thing in a relationship, which is a. beautiful gift, but you are taking in a. lot of someone else's perspective and. needs and stuff, and this has been such. a great time for me, and something I.

said to my fellow uh co-worker here, Jen, um earlier today, we were something. about some great guy came up, and. um she was like, "Oh, where are all. those great guys?" And she's such a. marvelous woman, and she's so rad and so. awesome, and I'm like, "You know what, Striker? Not only are you obviously. going to find someone or. some people, maybe it's one, maybe it's. chapters.". I said, "But you know what?

I'm going to be so mad at you, and. you're going to be so mad at yourself if. you waste this time because. it's coming. He's coming. And you're not going to get this time. back. So, I always notice too when I ask people in. the audience, "How many of you guys are. married?" People raise their hands, and. when I say, "How many of you are. single?" They all whoop. It's like, "Woo!". And there's like there is a celebratory.

pride that comes with being single, and. I hope people hold this dearly that. these things, for better or worse, don't. last. Yeah. And so, instead of like boo-hooing. through this time, love it, like it, cuz. one day it might be gone, and you'll. romanticize looking back how great it. was to be in a relationship with. yourself. Absolutely. True, I love that. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. That's what you should have said. It was brilliant.

I'd love to do a TED Talk. Yeah, well, I mean, you need to on this. on this exact topic. I think it's. unbelievable. I have one last question. for you. You said at the beginning of our. interview, you said that. when you were a kid and you were. observing people in the industry, I was. saying observing you and then you. started talking about observing others. You said. I was always looking at people and. trying to make sense of who I wanted to. be. Yes. Today, who do you want to be? Who is it that you look or not even who. as a person, but who do you want to be? The values, the characteristics, the. qualities, the inner that you were.

speaking about. What are those things. that you aspire for today? We heard a. story about this couple. We have a. section on our show called Drew's News. We had pulled up a story about the. couple who was in a 100. years of age. I think they've been married for, I. don't know, 80-something years. And. they said. when they were asked like, "Can you give. a wisdom?" And their wisdom was,

"When you are getting in a row or a. fight or something, like take a time. out." They're today who inspires me. because again, it does not have to be of. the romantic kind, but when you see. yourself rising, when that blood starts. to boil, when you start to like clench. and freak and get spun out, instead of. spewing that reaction and like Linda. Blair Exorcist all over the room,

I will have such regret for any type of. moment that I have like that. And I I. want to become the master of the person. who knows how to excuse themselves. Walk away. Take a deep breath. I have. breathe written on my wrist in tattoo. and I still forget to look at it. Like. after one rich deep breath, after one. removal of. yourself in a situation, after one time.

out, after one walk away, you are not. going to come back usually as spun out. Mhm. So, I think that for me is probably. like the goal de jure in my life right. now is like behavior mastery. And funny enough, as far as the people I. follow, it's the same people for the last 30. years. It's Nan and Chris.

and Peter and Brian and Steve. It's like. Cameron and my oldest friend Mel, we. celebrate 40 years this year. Wow. I I. stick with people because I'm still. trying to become like them. But we have a hell of a good time. like along the way. But I just have been. love with people who I think, "God. darn it. Yeah. When I get to be like you, when I. can learn to react like you, when I can. live the way I see you living." Because.

they're not not fun. They're not not. funny and spontaneous and cool and. interesting and have a wild side. Like. you don't have to be boring. No, definitely not. But I think when you're a kid, at least. I did, I thought you probably were if. you were an almighty person, you were. probably a crashing bore. So, I wanted to hang out with all like. the ruckus. Like I wanted to be in the. rumpus room with all the like. kookadoodles just like me. But everyone.

I admire, they're just like really cool. people, too. They're fun and loving and. and interesting and humorous. So, it. turns out all the people you admire. don't have to be boring, they can be. everything you want to be. All that. true. Thank you so much for this. I love you so much. you, too. This is one of the most. beautiful human exchanges that I've had. It was such a special special memory. because of you. It is but it's I don't. know, it's different when you open up. and you share your vulnerabilities. It.

is but it's I don't know, it's different. when you open up and you share your. vulnerabilities. It is but it's I don't. know, it's different when you open up. and you share your vulnerabilities. It. different when. you really get to hear from the heart. and speak from the heart. going to say it feels so open-hearted. Yeah. Like you and I just like you know, my dad used to say about like the body, it's just Tupperware, man. It's just. Tupperware. That's good. And it's like. it's true. It's like when do you sit. down and sort of like unzip your chest. and like reveal your organs and your. heart and like for all those people who. pay attention to the gut.

Yeah. The gut Oh, for sure. and Barry even says like so many ancient. wisdoms. Yes. are really about the gut. Absolutely, it's all about the gut. The. health, the insight, the the instinct, you know, the truth, The truth. the alarm bells. Yeah. Like God, pay attention. One thing. as a mom I've really hooked into in the. last like year is telling my girls I.

would want you to pay attention to what. feels good or makes you feel good. That's fantastic. Let's go with that. But I want you to be as equally. heightenedly aware of what doesn't make. you feel good. Absolutely. And let's explore that. I love that. Yeah, it's so needed. It's. so needed. I'm so glad you raised that. about the gut. It's so easily missed and. I think we're just getting there now. Well, it's not sexy. yeah, exactly. and the head is poetry. yeah, HH gut, yeah. It's like no. alliteration, yeah. that cuz that's your little compass. inside your body. I love it. If you love.

this episode, you'll enjoy my. conversation with Meghan Trainor on. breaking generational trauma and how to. be confident from the inside out.