DR. JILL BIDEN: The Hardest Moments Nobody Saw (Addiction, Grief & Life in the White House)

I said to Joe, you know, we've given him. everything, Joe. Everything. Why would. he turn to drugs? His daughters kept. Where's Daddy? Where's Daddy? Have you. heard from Daddy? We didn't know where. he was or how to find him. >> And one side you have the [music] grief. of Beau and then dealing with the public. scrutiny especially around Hunter. >> I didn't believe Beau was going to die. But I think once we went through that, no matter how mean it got or cruel, it was like, buddy, you can't touch us.

>> Hey everyone, welcome back to On. Purpose. My guest today is Dr. Jill. Biden, an educator, author, former First. Lady of the United States, and someone. who has dedicated her life to teaching. Today, we talk about family, resilience, and the lessons she's learned through. some of the life's biggest transitions. Jill Biden, welcome to On Purpose. >> Thank you. >> It's such a joy to see you again. We saw. each other.

>> About a month ago, right? >> About a month ago at History Talks. >> Absolutely. And I had the honor of. interviewing you and President Biden. And I've been fortunate enough to have. so many interactions with your family. who've been so extremely generous and. kind to me in so many ways. And so I'm. really, really appreciate that. >> the [laughter] same way about you. >> It's rare that you get to interview. someone and then get to interview their. wife. And then and then get to ask them. questions about each other. So. >> all the grandkids and everybody else. >> that I keep bumping into everywhere. around the world. It's pretty special. And I have to wish. you a happy belated birthday.

>> And you're obviously celebrating with. your book launch. >> Actually, the second day of my book. launch, yep. >> So you didn't get to really celebrate. >> I had I had five cakes. I mean, now now. I'm on my celery diet. >> [laughter]. >> Five cakes? >> Yeah, five cakes. Everywhere I went, everybody gave me a birthday cake. It. was really nice. And so if somebody. makes you a birthday cake special, you. have to eat it. You just can't say, oh. no, I'm watching my calories. You have. to eat the cake. So five cakes. >> Five cakes, that's impressive. Uh I was. thinking about this. You've You've lived.

an extraordinary life. >> I have. >> When we read this book, you can't help but think, how does one. person experience all of this? And how does one person even have the. capacity to navigate all of this? And I was thinking that if you were to. look at your life. looking forward from age 20, and you were to reflect on what's. happened, what would that version of you think? What would that version of you. anticipate or be able to see? >> I never could have foreseen any of it.

Not any of it. Because if you think of. where I was at age 20, I was at. the University of Delaware. I was. studying English. Um. I was actually married. I got married. I. went to college. I met someone freshman. year, fell in love, and got married. It. was this great romantic vision, you. know. Oh, we'll go to college together. We'll take classes together, which we. did start out doing. And the marriage. went on for about mm 5 years, and uh we. really grew apart. And it was the best.

thing because. it set me on this new trajectory, and I. met Joe when I was a senior at the. University of Delaware. He called me. It's kind of a funny story. I was at. home in my apartment, and it was. Saturday, and I get this phone call. And. um he said, "Jill, this is Joe Biden.". Well, I I didn't I knew who he was, but. you know, we hadn't really spent any. time together. I think I shook his hand. at one event one time. And um.

he said, "Are you free tonight?" And I. said, uh "Well, no, I have a date." And. he said, "Do you think you could break. the date?" And I said, uh "I don't know. I'll sit Call me back in an hour." So, I. broke the date, and we went out. And so, like I said, I. was a senior at the University of. Delaware. All the guys I dated had long hair, you. know, bell-bottoms, clogs, tie-dye. shirts. So, he comes to the door.

and uh I opened the door. and I took one look at his perfect suit. and his leather loafers and I thought, "Thank god, this is only one date." Cuz. he was just so different from anyone I. had gone out with. He was 10 years. older. I knew he had two children that. um. because he lost his first wife and. daughter in a car accident. So, we went. out on the date to Philadelphia. We went. out to to the movies and for dinner. afterwards.

I really uh had no intention of going. out with him again. I was just curious. But, we came home. and I remember I lived in this townhouse. and we went to the door. and you know, it was this time where um. it was like this revolution where men. were kind of more forward. They felt. like you owed them something at the end. of the date. And he stuck out his hand. and he said um. "I'd like to see you again.".

No kiss, no groping, nothing. And I remember it was 1:00 in the. morning. I went upstairs in my. townhouse. I called my mother at 1:00 in. the morning and I said, "Mom, I finally. met a gentleman.". >> Wow. >> Yeah. So, I dated him the next night actually. >> [laughter]. >> Uh he called, you know, "Can we go out. again?" And he's trying to maintain this. cool. I remember he um he came over and. uh he had a a book in his pocket, his.

calendar. And he said, "You know, I'd really like. to go out with you again." And I said, "Fine." And uh he So, he's looking. through the pages and he's like, "Well, no, not next Thursday. Well, no, I'm. busy. Well, not Wednesday, no." And he. goes, "Well, how about tomorrow night?". And I thought, "Buddy, you just blew. your cool." And. and so we went out, I swear, almost. every night for. um. probably 2 years. >> Wow. >> And the beautiful thing was about our. relationship, I think, is that because.

he had the Beau and Hunter, our two. boys, um you know, the first maybe night or. two we went out to dinner together, but. then it was always. me and Joe and Beau and Hunter. I mean, that's what it was. It was like so. natural. I'd go to his house and um have. dinner there, we'd go out to the movies, we went to the beach. I mean, we'd go. everywhere together. And it was just. so natural. I think people probably find.

that hard to believe, but. it was just easy. After dating. uh 2 years, the boys were in Joe was. shaving on his way to work to the. Senate. And apparently, this is a story. that Joe tells. The boys came in and. they said, "Daddy, we have something we. want to ask you." And um. Joe [snorts] said, "What?" And Beau. said, "You tell him, Hunter." And Hunter. said, "No, you tell him, Beau." Anyway, they finally came down to it and they. said, "We think we should marry Jill.".

>> [laughter]. >> And so that's when Joe started, you. know, asking me to marry him. >> Wow. >> But um it did take five times. um. because. >> rejected him five times, right? >> rejected him five times. >> Talk to us about how those five. [laughter] rejections went. Did he get. down on his knee every time? >> didn't. He just kept saying, "I I want. to marry you. I want to marry you.". And I kept saying, "No, not yet. Not. yet. I'm not ready.". >> What was that hesitation? >> I'm telling you, Jay. I mean, I loved.

the boys so much. And uh. I knew that they had lost. their mother, of course, and uh I had to. be. 100%. sure. that this marriage was going to work. because they had already lost one mother. through a car accident through death. and they couldn't lose another one. through divorce. So, I thought this. marriage has to last till death do us.

part. And. here we are like 49 years later. So, I. think that it has. >> What was it that finally convinced you. on that fifth time? >> Well, he gave me an ultimatum. >> [laughter]. >> So, he went to Africa and he came back. on a trip for the Senate and he came. back and I was in my apartment and um he. knocked on the door and I said, "Joe, come on in. Come on." He said, "No, I'm. not coming in. I want to know right now what is your. answer.". And uh I.

I thought "Okay." And I said, "Okay, I'll marry you.". >> Did you have fears at that time after. your divorce? >> yes. >> What what was that like at that time. getting married so early, being at. college? >> My parents had such a beautiful. marriage, a wonderful marriage and I was. talking uh to my sisters about it. yesterday. I said, "You know, we we live. such an idyllic life growing up. It. really was this Ozzie and Harriet or. Leave It to Beaver kind of existence.".

So, when I went to college and I met. this guy and I totally trusted him and. uh I thought, "Oh, now I'm going to have. like my parents have." And so, that's. why I got married so young. My parents. had gotten married young. They had. eloped to get married like one of their. parents never knew that they had eloped. So, that's what I based it, you know, all the reason that I would get married. so young. But, I was still a college.

student. I didn't have any money. I was. on my own. I wasn't financially. independent. And I think that was the. the thing that made me want to be. independent my whole life. And what I. say to my daughter and my. granddaughters, you have to have. financial independence. So, going. through a divorce at that young age left. such a big impact on me and it took me a. long time to get over. And my mother was. really the one I turned to. I swear I I.

think I called her like every night for. a year. I just could not get myself. together. I took a semester off at. college and it was like this sudden. realization like, "Hey, girl, you got to. make it on your own." So, I graduated, I. got a job, I bought a car. Of course, my. my father had to co-sign in those days. It was like 1974. and got on my way. >> When you read the book and even as I'm.

hearing you now, it feels like you were such an. intentional young person. Like, even the thoughtfulness you had. around the responsibility it would take. to take care of these two young boys, the gravitas of that and what that would. look like moving forward and. understanding the weight on both of them. of losing their mother through a car. accident. Like, it feels like there was. so much intentionality. What was the. intentionality that you and Joe put in. early into your marriage to last 49.

years? If there were three principles, three. lessons that you said, "We learned this. early. We We put this in early and. that's what helped us last the test of. time." What would they be? >> We built the family on love. And I quit. my teaching job for 2 years because I. wanted to be to establish myself as. their mother. That they were my sole. purpose in life. I would go and I would. work in the library at their school. And. Jay, they were so cute. Like, they were. so proud of me. They would say, "My.

mom's here today and she's working in. the library and she they bring all their. little friends in to see me and to say. hello. My kids were really involved in. all kinds of sports. I mean, you know, soccer, baseball, everything. And I went to all their. games. I love to cook. I believe food is. love and I made sure that I made great. dinners every single night and I I baked. like crazy so they always brought their. friends home and they were always.

chocolate chip cookies or. cake. You know, I wanted it to be like I. grew up. We would have dinner every. night together. Now Joe's train got home. about 7:30. So I would have dinner with. the boys and then we would wait for. dessert and when Joe came in then I'd. have his plate and give him his I mean. I'm telling you it was Ozzie and Harriet. so. >> [laughter]. >> I learned so many good lessons from my. own parents about love and laughter. And.

my parents made our lives so much fun. I. can remember one dinner. I don't know my mother was teasing my. father and we had just gotten back from. my grandparents in South Jersey and. there was a big bushel of tomatoes and. my mother got up and she took one of the. it was right in the middle of dinner and. she took one of those tomatoes and she. threw it right at my father not in anger. but in a like a tomato fight. Well, we. all got up the five of us and we're. throwing tomatoes and we're you know, I.

mean I know it sounds a little. [laughter] bit of crazy but that's how. fun my parents were. I mean they did. crazy stuff like Halloween night my mom. would have our homemade costumes and. everything and they'd go out in the. neighborhood with their martini glasses. and they'd go trick or treating. I mean. I have just wonderful memories and I. wanted my children. to think back on their childhood and be. able to say I really had a really great. childhood. So, we were very intentional.

This is a cute story. So, and I thought. I was pregnant. So, I didn't tell Joe. The boys came home from school, and I. said, I think I'm going to have a baby, but there's a way that you find out. And. I said, you go to the drugstore and you. get this test. And I said, let's go find. out and then we'll tell daddy if I am. They were all in. So, I put the. sunglasses on cuz remember I was a. Senate spouse and people in Delaware. would recognize me. So, we go to the.

drugstore and we get the test, and then. you have to go in the morning. We. waited, and then we found out that I was. pregnant, and they were the ones to tell. Joe that we were having a baby. And I. wanted them not to feel threatened by. that. So, I said to them, you can name. the baby anything you want. So, they. picked a boy's name and they picked a. girl's name. And um they they named the. baby. >> Oh, wow. >> Yeah, and they came with us to the.

hospital when I was in labor. We drove. to the hospital, and of course I was. like trying like I didn't want them to. have this memory of, you know, what. labor pains are like. So, I'm trying to. be really stoic during it all. And then. I had a C-section, so a friend of ours. came and took them to McDonald's while. they performed the C-section. Yeah. >> My parents had a neat trick for that I. remember that you're you're reminding me. of now is when I'm the oldest, I have a. younger sister, when she was coming my. my parents used to tell me to pray for a. little friend. And so, that's all I.

would do. I'd like pray for this little. friend to appear. And then when my. sister was born, I was like, oh my god, it worked. Like. my prayers [laughter] worked, and I was. so excited. >> were you? >> I was like. four and a half. >> Uh-huh. >> And it was so exciting like to to have. that experience. And it's so amazing how. parents find really smart ways of. preparing their kids for a sibling. coming into the world and what that. looks like. When I hear these stories, they're just so full of like richness. and joy and abundance and love as you're.

saying. And. of course. life's challenging. It's hard. It's. difficult. It's you know, it's and so. you're trying to bring in all these. beautiful moments, make all these. beautiful memories. What was it like. when Joe first said to you that he. wanted to run for president? >> The first time he ran it was 1987. So, we were out on the campaign trail. I. remember in Iowa. I was there all the. time. And it was exhausting because I. was traveling a lot and then I would.

come home. and I would have Ashley was six I think. The boys were a little older and um. they all wanted my attention, you know, so I'd come home just so tired. But that. campaign didn't work out. Joe was they. said that it plagiarized a passage. from this funny coming back Kinnick was. the guy's name. And so Joe dropped out of the race, but. that saved his life because in February.

of um. 1988. I remember I was teaching and I got a. knock on my door. It was the principal. and he said Joe, you got a call from. home. You have to go home right away. So, I rushed home. I saw Joe on the bed. I mean his face. was gray. >> [snorts]. >> So, we rushed him to the hospital. and they said uh. we think he has he has an aneurysm. I.

can remember I ran home cuz I had. actually getting off the bus. Nobody was. there. I ran home. got her settled, called the babysitter, you know, tried to get a hold of the. boys. I went back to the hospital. I'm walking down the hallway. and there's a nurse sitting there with a. table in front of her looking at the. charts. And I said, "What are you doing?" And. she said, "Don't go in there." I said, "Why not?". She said, "The priest is in there and. he's giving last rites." I opened that.

door, I ran in and I said to the priest, "Get out. Get out. My husband is not. dying. Get out." And the priest just. looked at me, gathered his stuff and walked out. There. was no way God was going to take Joe. away from those children when they had. lost their mother. >> What gave you that. conviction and faith in that moment to. be able to do that? I mean, that would. be. >> I couldn't I couldn't bear. I could not. bear that Joe would die. I I couldn't.

bear it and leave the children after. they had lost their mother. I mean, that would be so horrible. Anyway, we went to Walter Reed. He was. there for like, I think, 7 months. Um I was teaching. I was commuting after. school, like almost 2 hours. Sometimes. friends would drive me down. >> [snorts]. >> I had, you know, babysitters come in. with the kids. Beau was at University of. Pennsylvania. Um it was one of the toughest times. of our lives, but he lived. You know, I.

went to that hospital. I went to Walter. Reed. I can remember the surgeon, Dr. George, coming in and and. I had the boys with me. Dr. George said, "He may not make it." And so, Joe said. to the boys, "If I don't make make it. through this, I want you to take care of. your mother.". And uh. but he did. He lived He lived through it. and it was it was a long, hard recovery.

And he went on to run for president. again. There were a couple more times he. wanted to run. I can remember, I think. it was '72, when a bunch of um. political supporters came in and. said I could hear them. I was down at. the pool. I you know, I was young. I had. on a bikini cuz I was young and. I could hear them upstairs. You know, you have to run. You have to run. And I thought no way, not now. I don't. know what made me do this, but I took a.

black magic marker. and I wrote no on my stomach and I. walked in through the library and they. got the message and. >> [laughter]. >> Gosh, your your conviction in these. really important moments surprises. [laughter]. me on both ends. >> It does? >> Yeah, that's I mean it's brilliant. It's. brilliant and then it's like it's so. it's so bold and it's so like you're so. sure. >> I guess that's true. I don't know. You. have to be. You can't be wishy-washy.

>> Where does that come from for you? Where. does that strength, that conviction, that clarity come from for you? >> My mother was really strong. She's. definitely my role model. I turned to her in so many times in life. and. the sound of my mother's voice could. calm me down in an instant. And one of. my biggest regrets in life is that I. don't have a recording of her voice. And so I tell people who are. with parents or losing parents,

record their voices. because. someday you're going to need that to. hear it. Luckily for me, I have a. recording of Bo's voice because he gave. so many speeches. He was attorney. general. And so sometimes when the challenges are. really tough, I go to the computer. and I listen to his voice and it just. sort of calms me down. >> If you had a recording of your mom's. voice, what would you hope that she.

would say? >> Just her hello Jill. That instantly, I can't even tell you. It was it's like such a trigger. >> That's a really beautiful piece of. advice and you're so right in this world. now where we're inundated and. overexposed to FaceTimes and Zooms and. calls with our family, we don't. necessarily have recordings as much. anymore. Maybe we have videos, but. >> Yeah. >> an audio recording of a conversation, that's a a really beautiful takeaway. that I'm going to do that. I'm going to. I'm going to talk to her.

>> love that. >> Yeah, yeah, I'm going to do that. I'm. going to talk to my mom and make sure. that I record a piece. I think that'd be. really. nice. >> want to hear that, right? >> Yeah, absolutely. You put on the bikini, you write down black no on your stomach, walk through, everyone listens. >> Oh, they saw that, yeah. [laughter] I. didn't have to say a word. As a matter. of fact, I didn't say a word. Just. walked through and walked out. >> When. Joe finally runs and wins, like that. time what was different? What allowed. you to say, "Yeah, this time go for it. This time it's okay.". >> I guess because um Joe had been vice.

president and I saw what the life was. like. Um I knew it would be challenging. I don't believe in war. Um. I felt that Joe would end the forever. wars and you know, he and Barack did it. with um Iraq, but I don't know. There. were so many people telling him, "You. have to run. You have to run." And of. course his age was a question. Should. he, shouldn't he? But then um he had to.

make that decision himself. I didn't. push him one way or the other. And I write in my book how we were at. George the elder George Bush's funeral. and um. we went to lunch afterwards at Black. Salt restaurant in Washington and I just. said, "Are you going to run for. president? What's your decision? I need. to know." And he said, "Yes, I decided. to run." That's how I found out. [laughter]. >> That time you didn't have a clear a or.

no in you. It was. >> No, it had to be him. One of the. beauties I think of our marriage and. maybe you saw this in Philadelphia. I mean. I support Joe and what he wants to do. And all my life he has supported me. He. supported my career, my teaching, my. volunteer work, anything that I wanted. to do he was supportive of. Whether he. liked me doing it or not. And I felt the. same way about his career. That that's. really what a true partnership is in a.

marriage. We respected one another's. choices. >> What do you think people underestimate. about being First Lady? I feel like everyone has a sense of. the pressure that it takes to be. president. >> All First Ladies have chosen to do the. job a different way, I think. Like Laura. Bush didn't do it the same way her. mother-in-law did. Michelle Obama didn't. do it the same way that maybe Hillary. Clinton did. We've all done it in. different ways and um.

I respect that. Even if they've decided. not to do anything or whether they've. decide to like Rosalynn Carter, you. know, she would sit in on cabinet. meetings. She was very involved in. Jimmy's career or President Carter and. um I respect that. I respect other. women's choices. It's a hard job but. it's I mean it's it is an honor. of of a lifetime I think for most of us. >> What was your most difficult day in the. White House? >> I mean trying to.

uh live through COVID, Afghanistan withdrawal, definitely one. of the hardest days. There were a lot of times, you know, if. you remember like how about the Uvalde. shootings. I mean that was terrible. All those children and going to visit. the school and being a teacher myself. You know, when we went out to Hawaii to. the fires and saw that. you know, there. were so many.

joyous days, too. >> How do you begin to process all of that? Like to have the capacity to hold all of. that because there's personal loss, there's Beau, there's personal loss in. wider family, family parents, and then. you have this. global loss and global pain that you're. also connected to and managing and. visiting and as you said as a teacher. going to schools and what what do you. do? What do you turn to in those. moments? >> I can compartmentalize. So, if I'm in the classroom, my I am.

totally 100% in the classroom at that. point. Or if I'm doing something at the. White House, whatever that is, I'm. totally there. I'm with my kids, I they. get my total attention. So, I think. that's really helpful that if I can keep. doing that, it's not always easy every. day. Sometimes it bleeds into the. >> [snorts]. >> you know, whatever you're doing because. you have something in the back of your. mind that you're trying to deal with. I. think that skill has helped me most of.

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Smiths, and Frys where you can grab a. free June on us. So, head to. drinkjune.com /kroger to claim your free. can in store so you can feel better and. live better. I think most people feel. this way. If you looked at your schedule. for the next week or month or year, you'd be so overwhelmed by it. >> Yeah. >> And so, saying to someone I can only. live in 24-hour cycles because then I. can deal with what's today, I can deal. with what's happening right now, I can. make decisions for the future that are. better, that feel right today, and then.

I can deal with tomorrow. But if you ask. me what's happening in 3 months. >> No, I agree with that. >> Right? It gets really overwhelming to. start living in these long-term cycles. of like, "Oh, what do you got going in 6. months?" It's like, "I don't know. I. don't want to know.". >> I don't want to know. Just let me get let me get through. today. >> yeah, and that presence to hear that. that's what you needed into. compartmentalize into just be present as. a teacher, to just be present as a. mother, to just be present as a as a. first lady. What what did it feel like. when President Biden finally won? Like, what did that what did that moment feel.

like? >> god, it was so exciting. And if you. remember, there was like a week before. we were declared the winner. Every day. the TVs were on. Steve Kornacki was up. there with all his statistics, and I. thought, you know, does that man never. sleep? And he was getting on my nerves. so badly. And so one morning, uh Joe and. I just like were like, "Oh my god, we. got to get out of the house." So we live. on a man-made lake and it has a dock. So. we went down to the dock. We had our. coffee cups. And we had just really sat.

down for a couple minutes, and then like. all of a sudden our grandkids came. running out of the house screaming, "We. won! We won!" And um. then we quick came back into the house, and uh I mean, it was just amazing. It. was just so amazing and exciting and uh. Yeah, it was it was surreal. >> Did it feel like a long time coming. having had all those runs before and.

having people say, "Yeah.". >> It did. And I didn't expect Joe to. become, you know, after VP, I thought we. were finished. >> Mhm. >> So we had those years in between, I. think 4 years. I was commuting to Nova, my college where I worked, from Delaware. cuz I loved Nova so much. And you know. becoming involved in other things so. to think about getting back into this. lifestyle and what it would mean and um. it was challenging it but it was good. I. have really good memories of that.

>> What's the greatest thing you've learned. by being a teacher? >> I think the greatest gift that I can. give my students is confidence. They. don't need to know how to write the. paragraph or the topic sentence or. whatever it is. If I can give them the. confidence to think that they can write. it. That makes all the difference and. the first day of school I say to my. students or I would this was the first. day assignment. I said we're going to. write a poem today and they're like oh.

my god what do you mean we're not. writing a poem and I said yes you are. we're writing a poem today and you're. going to like it. So it's called where. I'm from. We would read um. George Ella Lyons poem and then and they. liked that and then I would start using. my own examples where I'm from. So my. grandparents on my father's side were. Italian. and I would talk about the you know the. sauce bubbling on the stove and the. noodles drying in the kitchen and. and food is such a good place to start.

So they would start to think about it. and I'd read poems from other classes. that students wrote and then they would. kind of get excited and so the next. class they would come in and they would. write their own poems and then they were. a little bit shy but then I'd say okay. who wants to read a poem? Well maybe I'd. have to call on the first person but. then when once you break the ice they. were great. So then they'd start to read. and they'd say I'm from Peru too listen. to my poem. My grandma made that too.

The class would instantly bond they. would form community and you know they. were community college students. so that meant they were any age from. like 18 to 83 was my oldest student I. ever had. But they said, "Dr. B, can we. put our poems on the wall?" And I said, "Yeah, that's a great idea." I loved. that they were so proud of themselves. that they could write a poem. >> Mhm.

>> And even the kids who had never written. a poem before, they felt such pride. So. if you can give them confidence, I think. that's the most important thing a. teacher can do. >> Couldn't agree with you more. You're. making me think of so many of my. teachers who. >> You have a favorite teacher? >> Yeah, definitely. Who doesn't? I feel. like you remember them. I have two, one. from primary school, elementary school, and one from high school. >> Yeah. >> And so my one from primary school was. called Mr. Foxwell, who just had that. energy. He He made every class fun. He. gave you so much confidence. You walked.

in feeling like a million bucks. And then I had a high school teacher. named Mr. Buckridge, who. made me question I was older then, so he. had the ability to challenge me a bit. more. But he would always He was my art. teacher, and I loved art. It was one of my favorite subjects. >> All the kids love art. English, not. [laughter] so much. >> English was one of my favorite subjects, too, but. >> great. >> But But art was art was right up there, and I remember I'd make this thing look. beautiful. I couldn't paint or draw, but. I did a lot of collage. I did a lot of.

graphic art. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I'd make everything look perfect, and then he'd look at it, and he'd say. to me, "Why did you do that?". And I wouldn't have an answer. It was. just because it looked good. >> Yeah. >> And I didn't want to say that to him. because I knew he wanted a deeper. answer, but I didn't have a deeper. answer. So I'd say I did it because it. looked good, and he said, "Well, figure. out why you did it. Better than. aesthetics." And it was such a great. >> Made you think, right? >> Made you think. He would always ask me. why. Why is that color next to that. color? Why is that image next to that. image? Why did you put that word there?

And it was such a beautiful practice in. intentionality, going back to that. point. >> it led you, right? I I it's right what. you're doing now, questioning. You know, why you put one color next to the other. >> Yeah, for sure. It was just a simple. question that just planted that seed of. nothing should be just random and just. for aesthetic reasons or just because it. looks or sounds good. Things have to. have depth and they have to have a. quality. >> Yeah. >> And I owe those teachers so much. I. wouldn't be nearly where I am in life or. mentally at those times if I didn't have.

them and sounds like your students Do. you still keep in touch with any. students? >> Oh my gosh, yes. I keep in touch with a. lot of my students. >> what are the kinds of things that you. hear from them and what are the. exchanges? >> they're doing well. It's amazing how. many students I run into and um. even last night in Philadelphia at my. book talk, you know, students came and. um and in my Washington one, a lot of my. new Nova students came. And yeah, they. text with me and they tell me what's. going on and um.

I mentor a lot of young women and I love. being able to be a part of their lives, give them advice, um hear their stories, and give them. confidence. >> What do you think young women right now. in America need to hear most? >> We lost some steps. um in the last. two or three years and I think we we. need to get back on track for the things. that women have always fought for and. that's, you know, equality, Roe v. Wade, equal.

wages. You know, I'm so interested in. women's health and. I joined the Milk and Women's Health. Network because I found out that. before 1993. all the research was done on males. Even the mice were males, which is. unbelievable. So. consequently, everything that all the. diagnosis we got, all the prescriptions. are based on males' bodies. So, you.

know, I think that women really need to. fight for themselves and fight for. answers on osteoporosis, endometriosis, menopause, wherever we're going. I mean, heart disease, there are so many things, autoimmune diseases. You know, some. disease hits women more than men. And. why? What are What are the differences? So, I think that. young women are trying to find their. way, where they fit in. But I think they can't be complacent.

They have to keep fighting for. themselves. >> I'm trying to remember the exact. statistic and I'll get it wrong right. now, but I remember that there was. research done on how only 1% of. investment. went into women's medical research and. health research. to actually understand. >> right. >> what was happening in women's health and. that. boggles my mind. >> And when I heard that, I mean, I told. Joe about it and he said, "We're going. to change it." And that's why we had the. White House initiative on women's health. and put $1 billion in in 1 year. And I'm.

so proud of that because I felt that. that was the catalyst. People had been. working on women's health for years, but. I think that spurred this movement. forward to. um. investors to get, you know, venture. capitalists to invest and people. scientists to to do research. And it. just. It feels good. It feels good for women's. health right now. >> Yeah, heading in the right direction. Lots lots more to do, but at least at least on the right path. [clears throat] I think we have clarity.

and there's our eyes are pointing in the. right direction. Now, we have to get off. the starting blocks. >> that. Thank you. >> Yeah, yeah, I think we've been talking a. lot about it. Our audience is primarily. women. And we've been talking about. everything that you just mentioned, women's health topics, consistently on. the show because we think people aren't. getting access to this information in. many places. >> more preventive care. >> Yes. >> I was reading recently how young women. now are getting back into tanning beds. and I'm like, "What are they thinking?". I mean, they're so bad for you. And I.

know myself since I I mean, I sat out in. the sun. We all did back. back then. They need to learn about. prevention and how to take care of. themselves and use sunscreen and not to. smoke and we have to eat healthy, not. processed foods. I mean, there's so many. parts of prevention. And I've had skin. cancer myself. I had it in the White. House actually. removed from my eye eyelid and my chest. and. And I know to how traumatic it was for. me. So,

for the young women to have the chance. to really take control of their own. health and move forward in a really. positive healthy way is so important and. um. So, that's that's kind of what I'm out. there pushing. >> I feel like this book is so raw and. vulnerable. It's so real. When you're. reading it, like it's. it's it's like a look into your heart. It really invites you in and it really. lets you into these really difficult. moments. And the one that stood out to. me. was reading about your experience in the.

2024 debate. And you talk about this raw. fear that you experienced. What was. going through your mind as you're. watching the debate in 2024? >> I was in the green room. and just watching the TV like everybody. else. And when I saw that moment when. Joe kind of froze, I thought, "Oh my god." And I write this. in my book. It was like, "Is he having a. stroke?". And I was scared to death. I was sitting. I got up. I started pacing. Like, "What's happening? What's happening?".

So, then after the debate, I went out on. the stage right away because I wanted to. see him, you know, face to face. And he said, um. as we're walking off, and I I won't repeat the exact words, but he said, "I really. effed up, didn't I?" And I said, "Yeah, Joe, you did.". And then we went got off the stage. I. went to the green room to get my stuff. We had a group of doctors always. traveled with Joe. And he went with his staff and the. doctors and the doctor said to me, "He's. okay. He's okay." cuz we had three more.

events to do that night. So, we went to. the hotel ballroom with supporters. We. went to a Waffle House. Do you know what. that is? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I know. I'm from the Northeast, so. [laughter] like Waffle House, what are. you talking about? So, anyway, we go to. the Waffle House at whatever time it. was, 11:00. And then we went to North. Carolina, 3:00 in the morning we get off. the plane, there's a band, there's big. lights, there's hundreds of supporters, you know, they're chanting and I. thought, "Well,

okay, you know, we're going to keep. going." And we did until we didn't. >> What was it then? What did you Had you. seen him that way before? Had you had. that. >> Never. Never. >> When. President Biden finally stepped down and. you said you wrote in your book he said, "Jill, I had no choice.". >> Yeah. >> What was your reaction then from that. debate to that moment? >> I was really um. heartbroken for Joe.

Because he had been a public servant for. over 50 years. And for his career to end. on such a negative note, I was. heartbroken for him. When he got out, I. mean, people were saying he was a hero. for stepping down, for giving up. everything and sort of passing the. torch. But I felt I felt really sad for. him. You know, when you love somebody and.

they go through something like that, it's you feel their pain. I mean, you. just. you know, you can't help but be. heartbroken. >> Did he wish he'd done it earlier or did. it Did he feel that was the right time? >> I don't know that he wished he had done. it earlier. It just sort of unfolded. >> Mhm. >> You know, he lost the support of the. Democratic Party, and. he knew he couldn't go on. So, he did. the right thing. He stepped out. >> I can't imagine how hard it is to to.

dedicate your life. to your country and your people, and. then. yeah, that be the way to go out. You. know, we we see it in in places where. there are no stakes, like when a. when a coach of a sports team leaves and. they they were losing, and they didn't. win the championship. And it's like, okay, whatever. Like that that's people. make that out to be really really sad. and difficult. >> Yeah, yeah. >> And and so, to compare it to these. stakes and and this scale and this. responsibility and dedication feels like. such a hard thing to do, and I can. imagine he really needed you then.

because. >> Yeah. >> like you said, you were you were sad for. him, but I can't imagine how sad he was. for himself and what he'd done. And so, he probably relied on you a lot. >> You know, after. after 49 years of marriage, yeah, he. does. >> We rely on each other. >> And I believe in the book you were. talking about how. you were slightly upset about Kamala. Harris looking for an endorsement and. support almost immediately. >> Well, I was just upset. I was just plain. upset. It just became sort of. overwhelming.

You know, but I got right out there for. Kamala, and I was on the campaign trail. a lot. >> Mhm. >> And I saw the excitement and um. the excitement at the convention and on. the trail when I was out there working. for her, campaigning for her. And I honestly believed she was going to. win. >> Mhm. >> And I was actually shocked. Um I write. in my book, it was like the next morning. I was, you know, went into the kitchen. at the White House. I was making coffee,

feeding Willow, >> [snorts]. >> and my phone rang, and I just I thought. she had won. And someone called me and said, "Had Did. you see the news?". And at that they didn't even have to. tell me the news. I knew. And I ran into the bedroom and I said, "Joe, wake up." You know, it was like. 5:00 in the morning. "Wake up. Why. didn't you tell me?". He said, "Yeah, she lost.". Did you feel she was going to win? >> I'll give you my honest answer. I spend a lot of time on TikTok. And for. anyone who spends a lot of time on. TikTok, it was pretty clear she wouldn't.

win. >> Oh, really? >> That was my take. Yeah. >> So, that's where I should go the next. time. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> I'm looking at a candidate and what the. hell they're doing. >> Literally, I lived on TikTok. Yeah, I. was I was living the campaign through on. TikTok. And it's more of a a sense you. got from seeing the. the level of support that the opposition. had and. >> But her crowds were so big and the. energy. I mean, you saw them after the. convention. >> the people who are going to go and vote. >> [laughter]. >> It's almost like the people online who. vote and the scale at which the support.

was there for for President Trump was. pretty crazy. It was like it was insane. to look at actually in the build-up. even. >> Yeah. >> And and I was like, "Wow, this is this. is big." Like you just see posts that. just had. an insane amount of likes and comments. and engagement that was all pro. >> Yeah. >> pro-Trump and. >> Yeah, I wasn't, you know, monitoring. that. I was monitoring the crowds and. and their response and. and I guess that was my barometer. >> Yeah, of course. Of course. No, and and.

and and that's what's so interesting is. that I think politics has been. completely transformed by social media. >> Absolutely. >> of all of these apps and. >> Yeah. >> how followings are galvanized, how how. messaging is coming across. I mean, with. most of you know, millennial and Gen Z. generations getting their news through. social media, >> Yeah. >> it's you know, it's starting to become. such a. pivotal place and such a scary place for. all of this as well. >> to say, like how are these young people. supposed to.

tell what's true and not true? Like. that's what worries me. >> You can't. Especially now, I mean, you. add AI into the mix and social media, you have no idea what's real. And it's. really hard because there's no controls. on what's real and what's not real. It's. not marked, you don't know. >> So, do you think there should be. government regulation? >> I think there needs to be for news, for. sure. >> Mhm. >> But I don't know how you control that. because everyone's a news corp at this. point. And so, how do you actually even. control something like that when anyone. anywhere in the world can upload.

something and it looks real and it looks. like it makes sense. It's I can't. imagine it to be easy. And you don't want to censor free. speech. So, it's I I Yeah, it's a it's a. very, very fine balance. I don't know. how you do it. >> Yeah. Well, I looked up something on the. January 6th insurrection. It was all. positive and I was like, "What?" You. know, and I. >> Yeah, yeah. >> And I said, "Can you give me the you. know, the truth about this?" Because. they painted such a rosy picture of what. happened. And we saw what happened. I. mean, we watched it on the TV. We saw.

them smashing the windows of the. Capitol. But they put such a positive. spin. I really thought, "Where were they. getting drawing the information or who. was controlling. >> Was that an AI search or a Google. search? >> on It was on ChatGPT. >> Oh, wow. >> So, look it up and see what. >> take a look. Yeah, I'm going to do that. as soon as as soon as we finish this. I. was going to say, obviously I got the I. had the fortune of interviewing yourself. and President Biden just just a month. ago at History Talks. And the president was in such. good spirits. I mean, he was I we we.

spent time backstage. >> Yeah. >> He was. >> Yeah. >> as always. We had a great conversation. together. We went on stage. He's also. well, how is he? How is he doing? >> He's doing okay. Um he does have stage. four cancer. It has metastasized to his. bones. He will forever have cancer. He. will forever be on medicine. And he's. 83. So, you put that mix in. So, yes, he's still working. He's writing his. book. Um.

he's traveling, he's speaking. but um. he's a little more tired. Uh. I've seen him slow down. I mean, cancer. really takes a toll. And I think um. every family in America has someone in. their family with cancer, whatever form. it takes. And um. and I think it's it's really been. like. kind of a cruel blow.

>> It's the worst. It's the worst. If. anyone's lost anyone that they love. through cancer, which I have, it's it's. the worst. It's It's terrible to watch. And as you said, it's it's long-term. It's not going anywhere. Yeah, I was I was shocked at how. amazingly present he was knowing knowing. those. truths. >> Yeah. >> He was strong. He was yeah. >> He's strong, he's resilient, and it's. just. uh so unfortunate. >> I'm so sorry you and your family are. going through that. It's uh. yeah, I can't I can't imagine on top of.

everything else how how painful that is. >> Everybody's trying to do their part in. helping, and you know, like my Naomi is. our oldest grandchild said, "Nana, I. want to come and, you know, bring my. son, Willie, and uh stay with you for a. month, and. uh you know, help you out." And I mean, just it's just been a really nice thing. >> I wanted to go back to the opening line. of the book where you say, "Once you. lose a child, nothing can hurt you.". And I thought, "Wow, that's that's a.

really emphatic way to begin a book.". Why was Why was it important to start. there? >> After we lost Beau, I felt there could be nothing worse. in life than to lose a child. I didn't believe Beau was going to die. I just kept praying and praying and. praying, and I just felt like God would. never take him. With glioblastoma, which. is what Beau had, we tried everything. I. mean, every every trial, every medicine,

operations, and the doctors kept saying, "This could turn around any moment. This. could turn around. This could turn. around.". >> [snorts]. >> And I remember how sick he was getting. and all the things he was going through, and it was so horrible to watch, and I. can remember the day he died. That. morning, the doctors called us into the. room in Walter Reed, >> [snorts]. >> and they said, uh, "Things are getting. pretty bad, but. this could turn around." I breathed a. sigh of relief, like,

"Okay, he could live. He really could. live.". And we walked out. There were about. eight docs, and um, we took a couple steps outside the room, and one of the doctors turned around and. said, "Stop.". And looked at the doctors. and said, "Tell the Bidens the truth. Go back in. that room. and tell the Bidens the truth.". And um, we went back in,

and they said, um, "We think Bo's going. to die today.". Honestly, I I don't think there's. anything worse. After going through. that, my family's like really spiraled. I. mean, it was just so hard on everybody. And so, I think once we went through. that, like, anything anybody said. against Bo or did or no matter how mean. it got or cruel, it was like, "Buddy,

you can't touch us. I mean, we're just. we're resilient. There can't be anything worse. than losing Bo.". And I still feel that way. >> I've heard the president say that. >> You never met Bo, right? >> did. No, no, no, but. >> I thought you may have. >> No, I wish I did. I wish I did. The way. The way you both speak Yeah, the. [laughter] way you both speak about him. I've had President Biden say that you. know, he should have been president and. that's why he's doing what he's doing. Yeah. >> kind of what we thought, you know, that.

>> Yeah. >> it wasn't going to be Joe, it was going. to be Beau. Beau was just I mean, he's. all the best parts of Joe. >> How do you even begin to live with that. level of grief? >> One day at a time. I know it sounds so. cliché, but there were days when. uh you know, I just. couldn't. kind of I felt like I couldn't get. through the day, but I'm telling you. the. amount of kindness that people showed. toward us, like people didn't give up. It wasn't.

like they said, "I'm sorry you lost your. son." It was like every day sending me a. text, dropping something by the front. door every day, every week, and not just. like for the. moment that week of the funeral. My true friends kept it up for months. and months and months, because you never. get over it, ever. I mean, to this day. when I wake up, I mean, the first thing. I do is say a prayer for Beau. And I always say you never know what's.

behind someone's smile. Even during. Beau's illness, I was teaching full-time. at Nova, and. I think maybe one teacher knew what I. was going through, one of my friends, but no one else, because I would. sometimes go to the hospital early in. the morning, and then uh teach and then go to the. hospital. Joe was working every day as. vice president. Very few people knew. And you know, people said, "Oh, you kept.

it secret. You kept it secret." Well, they forget. I mean, he and Hallie had. two children. We couldn't let this out and have my my. grandchildren hear this. I mean, they. were already dealing with his illness. They saw him. in the hospital every day. They saw him. when he was home. >> Mhm. >> We just couldn't have them hurt. in that way. We just It was uh too much. >> Yeah. >> Too much for them as little children. >> I mean, on one side you have the grief.

of Beau and then you have, you know, dealing with the public. scrutiny, especially around Hunter. And. I wonder, how do you How do you navigate. supporting a family member who's. struggling with addiction? >> It was tough, Jay. Because half the time we didn't know. where he was. He would be going from rehab to rehab. Then we wouldn't hear from him for like. a couple weeks, and the kids His. daughters kept, "Where's Daddy? Where's. Daddy? Have you heard from Daddy?" You. know, we didn't know where he was or how.

to find him, or he wasn't communicating. with us. So, I flew someone in to do an. intervention with him, and it took a long time for me to even. get him to come to the house. And as soon as he walked in, he saw what was going on. He ran out of the house, and Joe ran. after him, and just. held him, and. we just had to. I don't know, love him through it. It's a disease, and I think um.

I had to learn that myself, cuz I said to Joe, "You know, we've. given him everything, Joe. Everything. Why would he turn to drugs?" But it is a. disease. Now, he's sober, thank you, God. Uh he's. been sober for. I think 7 or 8 years now. He's. remarried. He has a a beautiful little. boy, Beau. And he's doing his art. He's. helping people with recovery. For those.

who are who are listening, who. are going through addiction, I you know, I don't. have the answer, but you just have to keep at it and. it is one of the hardest things I think. I've ever had to do. And Joe, to see. your. child. deal with addiction. >> I heard you say recently that you wish. you had spoken more openly. >> I do. >> about his addiction during your time in.

the White House. Why was it hard then. and why is it important now? What. >> Well, I think so many families are. dealing with it. >> Absolutely. >> people have to know that they're not. alone. And there are answers and there is help. and there is community support. I mean, I saw it all the time. in my classroom as well. The kids who would come in that were. high all the time, every single day. And I'd say, "I want you to go talk to a. counselor." "No, Dr. B, I got this under. control." And I said, "No, you don't.".

No, you know, but just to try to get to. them. cuz they think they're invincible. They think they don't have a problem. They don't see what the world sees and. it was hard. It was really hard. >> I really appreciate you having those. reflections and it's so interesting how. as something at the time can feel really. difficult to talk about and then when. you look at it from a different angle. and perspective, you realize actually. yeah, there are so many families going. through the same thing. People need to.

hear about other people's stories. They. >> They do. >> to hear about how you can change your. mind about something and what it really. requires and yeah, I thought it was. really brave that you were able to. you know, reconnect and reflect and say, "Hey, I regret that we didn't talk about. it more.". >> Mhm. >> And I think there's a need. I think. there's a need with all of this as you. said it's a disease and and there are so. many other addictions, mental health. conditions that. >> Ah, yeah. >> that I think we're just starting to. understand. >> And I love that Hunter now is helping. other people in recovery.

>> Jill, it's been really a gift to read. your book, to sit with you today. I. >> Oh, thank you. >> Don't take this honor granted at all. Like it it's so meaningful to sit with. someone who's lived such a real yet. incredible and. phenomenal and phenomenally difficult. life in so many ways and joyous, of. course. >> Mhm. >> We end every episode of On Purpose with. a final five. These questions have to be. answered in one word. To one. >> word? >> Well, no, no, no. I'll give you one. sentence. One sentence. >> One sentence. >> These questions have to be answered in. one sentence.

>> Okay. >> However, I will usually ignore my own. rule and ask you for more. >> Okay. >> Uh but uh Dr. Jill Biden, these are your. final five. >> Okay, here are my final five. >> Question number one. What is the best. advice you ever had or received? >> My best advice. was probably from my mother, know. thyself. >> Question number two. What is the worst. advice you've ever heard or received? >> Uh the worst advice? God, I don't know. [laughter]. Um can I pass on that one? The worst. advice? I don't know.

>> What's something that gives you hope for. the future? >> You know, I love in the women's health. space, all these young researchers that. I'm meeting and seeing what they're. doing because I'm the other half of the. brain, you know, language arts and um. literature, but they're science. And to. sort of step into their world and see. what they're able to do and discover and. how they can help other people and how. they're trying to cure these rare. diseases. That really gives me hope.

because I feel like we're moving in the. right direction in women's health. And I. love the direction of of women's sports. I mean, we've waited, you know, I'm a. girl from the '60s. So, we've waited so. long with, you know, Title IX and um. to see women's sports getting their due. Uh that gives me hope. And the midterms, I feel like um. you know, I feel like the Democrats are. going to. maybe turn the corner and do well in. them. There's so much that gives me. hope. And it's so great that uh.

I don't know. My grandchildren are all. in their 20s and uh early 30s and um to. see their interests and what they're. interested I mean, I just see what young. people. are interested in these days. And and. they seem to be moving forward in a. really positive way and not focusing on. the negativity or the vitriol. Like. they're rejecting that and they're. saying, "We're going to take this in a. different direction and look at our. passions and find joy." And that's what.

gives me hope. >> Question number four, what's something you used to value when. you were younger, but you don't value. anymore? >> I don't know. I look for the positive. anymore. I look for the joy. You know, I'm like you said, I just had. a birthday. I'm 75. As I like to tell my. daughter that she hates to hear, I'm. like, "Girl, I'm in my final quarter and. I'm going you know, I want it to be. joyous. I don't want to focus on the. negative.". >> Fifth and final question we ask to every. guest who's ever been on the show.

>> [laughter]. >> If you could create one law that. everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? >> Be kind. >> Because you don't know what anyone's. going through. >> Yeah. >> As you said earlier, now you don't know. what's behind someone's smile. >> You never know. >> Dr. Jill Biden, thank you so much for. your time, your presence, your energy. Uh if there's anything I didn't ask you. that you'd want to share, [laughter]. we're more than happy to hear, but uh. thank you for your time, your presence, your energy. >> Oh, thank you. >> Thank you for sharing your heart so. openly in this book and I look forward. to many, many. >> Thank you. >> of our audience and community reading. it.

>> As we go on, thank you. >> If you enjoyed this podcast, you're. going to love my conversation with. Michelle Obama, where she opens up on. how to stay with your partner when. they're changing. If you're going. through something right now with your. partner, this is the episode for you. >> The world won't always like you, but you can't count on the world to like. you.