Dr. Becky Kennedy: This Is Why Your Kids Won't Listen to You & How To Fix It

We've gone from not caring about kids. emotions to being scared of kids. emotions. The more you optimize for. happiness in childhood, the more you. actually wire for anxiety in adulthood. >> Dr. Becky Kennedy. >> Dr. Becky, >> the go-to voice for modern helping. parents break cycles and build. connections. >> What actually makes a good parent? >> Repair without a doubt is the most. important parenting strategy. >> What's the worst thing a parent can say. to a child that's going through a. difficult time? >> I don't care about your feelings. I'm. not listening. I'm not really. connecting. I am telling you what to do.

I'm leading with control. >> Can you be your kid's best friend and. still set boundaries? >> Kids need us to embody our authority. Boundaries and validation when paired. together. That's what makes for really. resilient adults. >> What's the cost of being a good kid who. never caused problem? >> You can't learn to manage emotions you. feel like you're not allowed to have. If. we can't tolerate the challenging. feelings our kids have and we look for a. quick distraction, what they learn is. I'm a kid and I find my feelings.

overwhelming, but oh my goodness, my. parent finds my feelings overwhelming. >> You've said it's not your job to make. your kids happy. >> Yeah. >> What is a parent's job? >> The number one health and wellness. podcast. >> J Shetty. >> J Shetty. The one, the only J Shetty. >> Hey everyone, welcome back to OnPurpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. I'm so.

grateful that I get to talk to today's. thought leaders and experts about the. things that matter that make a. difference in our daily lives. And. today's topic is something I'm. fascinated by. It's something I talk to. my wife Radi about a lot. And it's. something that takes a lot of my mind. space even though I'm not one of these. yet. But today's topic is parenting. And. today's guest is Dr. Becky Kennedy, clinical psychologist, best-selling. author, and founder of Good Inside, a. global parenting and mental health. platform. Named by Time as the.

millennial parent whisperer, Dr. Becky. is known for bringing practical, compassionate tools that help families. and individuals thrive. Dr. Becky's. bestselling book, Good Inside, has. helped over a million people feel seen. and supported through life's toughest. moments. And in today's episode, we dive. into how to honor hard emotions, set. healthy boundaries, and grow through the. everyday challenges of parenting and. connection. In all honesty, I have. sparked so many of the best. conversations I've had around becoming a.

parent because of Dr. Becky Kennedy's. work. So, I'm so excited to have her on. the show today. Becky, welcome to On. Purpose. >> Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. >> It's so great to have you here. I want. to start off by diving into just things. that you say that really stick with me. and I go, "Oh, yes. That's I I feel like. that resonates. You said we've gone from. not caring about kids feelings to. letting kids feelings dictate what we do. as parents. >> Yeah. >> And when you said that, of course, I'm. looking at this as someone who wants to.

be a parent, but I'm looking at parents. around me. That idea that we all feel we. grew up at a time when our parents. didn't care. They weren't present. They. didn't know what was going on with our. feelings and emotions. We've now gone to. a place of our kids' feelings dictating. what we do. >> Yeah. >> Talk to me about that. >> Yeah. I I think naming this. overcorrection is really helpful because. yes, decades ago, I mean, probably in. still some families now, right? It's I. don't know, let's say some version of I.

don't want to go to Aunt Sally's house. I don't care if you want to go to Aunt. Sally's house. Put on a smile. Put on. your shoes or else. And then some. consequence, right? Okay, that would be. I don't care about your feelings. I'm. not listening. I'm not really. connecting. I am telling you what to do. I'm leading with control. And I think. there's a generation of people who are. like that didn't feel good. You know, and we also know that emotions and. learning how to understand your. emotions, how to manage your emotions. You can't learn to manage emotions. You. feel like you're not allowed to have.

disappointment as a kid. How could you. ever manage disappointment as an adult? So, it's not really the pathway to. strength and resilience, right? But yes, what I've noticed is something. completely overcorrected that I would. say is equally as bad for kids. Same. situation. I don't want to go to Aunt. Sally's today. It's so boring. I want to. hang out with my friends. Okay, you know. what? And then fill in the blank. I'll. get a sitter. I'll stay home. Let me. call three different people and, you. know, see what you can do. And there's.

so many examples of this. I don't want. to leave the playground. Okay. Well, I. guess we'll stay at the playground. longer. And it's not to say I'm against. parent flexibility. Sometimes, of. course, we can be flexible, but we've. gone from not caring about kids emotions. to being scared of kids emotions. That's. why we let them run the show. That's why. we give our kids emotions kind of the. the steering wheel. And I think what we. stand for at Good Inside is something. remarkably in the middle. It is very. important to see your kids feelings as. real. That's really what it is. That's. what validation is. It's a process of.

saying to someone else kind of I might. not be feeling what you're feeling, but. what you are feeling is real and I am. interested in learning about it. I think. that's very important. You don't want to. go to Sally's house. I get it. You'd. rather be sitting home and watching the. basketball game on TV. Totally hear you. And then I think there's a wellplaced. and because that is part of our job. Empathizing with a kid's feelings is. only half of your job as a parent. The. other half is setting a true boundary. Is what I think of as authority without.

aggression, which is rarely modeled, but. is important, which is some version of. we committed to going to Aunt Sally's as. a family. And the truth is, there's a. good amount of things we all have to do. that aren't number one on our agenda, that are even a little bit boring. This. is one of those things. It's okay if you. whine on the way there. I know when we. get there, you're going to be able to. pull it together. It's not going to be. your most fun Saturday, but we'll get. through it as a family. All right. What. kind of music do you want to listen to.

in the car? >> Yeah. Why do we find that so tough? Why. is that so hard to do as a parent? >> I think there's so many factors. So, I. think part of it is actually just a lack. of confusion and teaching, right? I. think we can get into this bigger. conversation. I'll just name it and not. go into it now. Parenting is the last. job in the world where we glorify. instinct alone. We haven't been taught, well, how do I connect to my kid but. also hold a boundary, right? It would be. like telling a surgeon to do surgery.

without medical school. That's kind of. what we do to parents. So, it's really. hard. >> Send them home with a baby. >> Yeah. Literally, right? And I remember. going home with a baby. I looked around. really like no one's just just a car. seat. Like I remember looking around and. no one was coming. I was like, guess I'm. good. Okay. Um that's what we do and. it's the hardest job in the world. So I. think part of it is how can you employ a. skill in a difficult situation when. you've never been taught a skill and. that skill wasn't modeled in your own. childhood. So I think that's number one.

Number two, and this is like a really. big one for kind of why right now is. this so powerful. So much of parenting. is inconvenient. It's just the word. that's not talked about enough for. parenting. when you have to get out your. door to go to Aunt Sally's 50th lunchon, which my guess is maybe you're not. really even dying to do either. There's. a lot of frustration like your kid is. whining, your kid is saying why they. shouldn't go. And if I think about where.

parenting is today versus decades ago, I. think us adults, we've become less and. less tolerant of frustration. >> We have our phones, we have our. dopamine, we have so much more ease in. our life. And one of the things I always. think about is our kids can't learn to. tolerate feelings we don't tolerate in. them. So if I have an increasingly. lowered frustration tolerance because of. all of the ease and dopamine hits in my. life, I am inherently less tolerant of. my kids whining.

>> Wow. >> And then the reason I let my kids. whining take the driver's seat and I. say, "Fine, you know what? Just go to. your friend's house." I actually think. it doesn't even have to do with making. our kid happy, which I don't think is. good as a predominant philosophy either. I actually just want to stop feeling. frustrated myself. I just don't want to. deal with it. So, if we can't tolerate. our kids disappointment or frustration, they're not learning to, which is why. then it looks like their emotions are. making all the decisions. >> Wow. That that's extremely powerful.

Which is why because they can't tolerate. their feelings because of our reaction. to their feelings, they now don't. actually develop resilience or grit or. all the things we want them to develop. because tolerance and knowing how to. accept and sit in the feeling is such an. important skill set. >> I I mean this is everything, right? I. think I'm a visual person, so I've done. this before, but I think it matters. that, you know, if we think about kids, they're born into the world and they're. born with all the feelings and none of. the skills to manage feelings. There's a.

gap. All the feelings, none of the. skills. Bad behavior, whether it's a. four-year-old hitting their sister, whether it's your teenager saying, "I'm. not going to Aunt Sally's," whether a. kid is saying, "I hate you. You're the. worst mom. I don't want to be in this. family." you're lying to your face. Every single acting out behavior. is a sign that feelings are greater than. skills. But the problem isn't the. feelings. The problem is the lack of. skills. >> So the answer to over time having a lot.

better behavior or something more. powerful than behavior. It's building. skills, building emotion regulation. skills. Kids are not born with those. skills. And we as parents, we are kind. of the coaches. But I think as our life. gets so busy, right, as we're more. distracted and and just to be clear, let. me say right away, I'm not like above. this. I'm not like, "You should all. watch me. I'm a perfectly present parent. all the time." No. Right? Modern life is. so hard, right? But yes, if we can't.

tolerate the challenging feelings our. kids have and we look for a quick. distraction or a quick exit for them. right away, then what they learn is. something really interesting. What they. learn is, I'm a kid and I find my. feelings overwhelming, but oh my. goodness, my parent finds my feelings. overwhelming. The things that feel scary. and toxic to me, maybe they really are. scary and toxic and then, you know, things can kind of go from there.

>> Yeah. And I think one of the challenges. with that is that not only do the kids. not have the skills, we potentially as. adults have never had time to develop. the skills ourselves and no one taught. us. And so that pattern continues. How. do you overcome mom guilt? >> Such a good question. So let me paint a. scenario cuz I want to know if we're. talking about the same thing. So I'll. hear and what I kind of referred to. before is a situation like I'm going out. to dinner with my friends. Um and it's. often. >> I haven't seen a group of my friends. without kids around in I don't know,

however long, a long time. >> But then I have my dog or my son. clinging to my leg. Mom, you never put. me to bed. Meanwhile, in this situation, if it's like my house, I've like put my. kid to bed for the last 37 nights. Okay, but still in that moment, it's like, you. never put me to bed. And then what a mom. will often say to me is I feel so. guilty. Like, I feel so guilty. It's not. even worth going out to dinner. Like, it's not even worth it. I don't Is that. kind of along the lines? Okay, >> that's fine. >> Okay, so the way I see this,

I actually don't think we're talking. about guilt here. >> I don't I think this is a. misunderstanding of what guilt is. So. we'll start with that. To me, guilt is a. feeling you have when you act out of. alignment with your values. And in that. way, it's a very important feeling. Like. all of our feelings are important for. information cuz it helps you have enough. discomfort to reflect on like, well, what are my values? Like if I no showed. to this podcast and didn't even text. you, I'd feel guilty. It is not within. my value system to noshow on people,

right? That would be helpful. And I. think, why did I do that? Right? But. what I hear all the time from moms is. going out to dinner, my kids clinging, I. feel guilty. So I'll say, "Okay, really, is it within your value system, and only. you would know this while you're a. mother?". >> To see your friends some of the time. >> Mhm. >> 100% of moms say, "Yeah." So I say, "Okay, so this is interesting. This is. definitely a painful experience, but. this is not guilt. This literally isn't.

guilt." And here's what I think it is. I. think as women especially, but it's not. only for women, going back to that good. girl idea, we've developed the tendency. to scan our environment and see other. people who are upset with us and we kind. of do this. We're like, you're feeling. uncomfortable. I will take that feeling. out of your body. >> I will take it into my body and I will. call it guilt. >> and I will change something I'm doing so.

you don't have to feel that way. That's not guilt. That's actually. emotional confusion. >> And and I find visuals helpful. So to. me, if you picture yourself in a tennis. court, let's say I'm on one side and my. daughter who's clinging to me is on the. other side. But instead of a tennis net, let's say there's a glass wall. What. will happen is I'm like, "Okay, I'm on. my side. I know I want to go to dinner. with my friends. I haven't seen them. It's important. It's within my value. system. I'm grounded in that. Over there. is my daughter who's upset." Number one, two things are true can help here. Two.

things are true. I'm allowed to go out. to dinner. My daughter's allowed to go. upset to be upset. Period. But if I. picture that tennis court, the reason. it's helpful is I now picture my kid. He. never put me to bed. I'm so upset. It's. actually really powerful how many people. have told me it's true. It's like. somehow those feelings in her body start. to come out. >> and start to come to my side of the. court. And all of a sudden, they're on. my side. And I'm saying things like, "Don't you want me to be happy?" or. "Fine, I'll cancel." And actually, the. interesting thing is I'm not even doing.

that for my daughter at this point. That's why it's not guilt. >> Yeah. >> I'm doing that to rid myself of this. feeling that wasn't even mine in the. first place. And you can't even. empathize because you can only empathize. with someone's feeling when it's their. feeling. As soon as you've made it your. own, you're playing your own game. So, if we if we go through the scenario, and. I do this with so many women, I'm like, "Okay, so you're on this court. I want. you to literally imagine doing this.". And if anyone's listening and can't see. me, I'm putting my hands by my chest and. I'm like pushing it out. The visual.

matters, like my kids sadness, I am. pushing it out of my body and I'm giving. it back to them. I'm not pushing it away. and I'm not doing it violently. I'm just. kind of giving it back to its rightful. owner. Okay? Because then I can actually. empathize cuz once it's back in her. body, I can say, "Gh, you really wish it. was me putting you to bed and not daddy. I get that. Yeah, I really wish it was. you. Listen, this is one of those nights. I'm going to dinner with my friends. It's okay if it feels hard. You're safe. with dad. You're allowed to be upset. I.

will see you in the morning. Now, when I. do that again, my child has never said. to me, "Have a great dinner, Mom." Or, "That was sturdy leadership." Or, "You. use that guilt tennis image, didn't. you?" That never happened. They keep. crying. Again, we're not our good. interventions. >> Yeah. They're just simply not rewarded. by kids calm behavior. And the sooner we. realize that, you know, the better. Even. though we keep wanting at me to to be. true. And now I go out and the truth is. on my walk to dinner, I feel a little.

uneasy. I'm like, I'm so guilty. But I. say, Becky, that's not guilt. That's. actually literally not guilt. I am. acting in alignment with my values. That. is my daughter's distress. And actually, my job is to help her build tolerance. for distress. And I actually just did. that while I kept my dinner plan because. I know if I canceled, you think I'm not. resentful of my daughter and not. screaming her head off at the time she. asked for a second book at bedtime. because I wish I was at dinner with my.

friend in the first place. We use our. kids behavior or their reactions as a. barometer of whether we're a good. parent. And we lose oursel in the. process because we're so busy gazing out. versus gazing in. What's a version of. gazing in? Is this a decision I believe. in? Do I feel like I'm actually being a. good leader? Do I feel like this is a. decision maybe not only for today, but. for, you know, every once in a while. when we have the energy, a decision that. really helps our kid become the kind of. teen and adult we'd want them to be?

When we call the school, when we do the. puzzle, when we fix the friendship. issue, right? Assuming it's not some. really intense abusive bullying, okay? We might end up feeling capable, but we. steal our kids' capability. To me, the. biggest wins we have in parenting and in. so many parts of life are when we shift. from my job is to avoid all turbulence. to I actually know exactly what to do in. the turbulence. And when you know what. to do in the turbulence, which takes. practice and learning and support and.

never being perfect, you actually feel. stronger. >> You know what's hard? being sick and. then having to fight the health care. system while you're already feeling. awful. First you call, then you wait, then you finally get an appointment. scheduled 2 weeks away. I remember. having this lingering cough once. I was. doing everything I possibly could. Ginger shots, turmeric tea, steam rest, all of it. But nothing was working. And. when I finally decided to see a doctor,

the earliest appointment was over a week. away. That's where Amazon One Medical. changes everything. You can see a. medical provider way faster with 24/7. virtual care right from your couch, your. office, your kids soccer game, wherever. you are. And the cool thing is access to. health care providers is all online. Isn't that how healthcare should always. work? And when it comes to meds, Amazon. Pharmacy delivers your prescriptions. right to your door. No driving across.

town, no standing in line, no awkward. pharmacy counter conversations. I've. heard so many stories from people. feeling awkward at the pharmacy, having. their prescriptions announced out loud, or waiting in long lines when all they. want is to get home and rest. That's why. delivery just makes sense. It's. discreet, it's easy, and it gives you. back your time and energy. With Amazon. One Medical and Amazon Pharmacy, healthcare just got less painful. And I. know you've also said that women in. particular feel a pressure because.

there's always been this idea that women. should have a maternal instinct and you. talk about parenting being a skill as. much as the kids needing these skills as. they're growing up. >> and women have this unfair pressure of. well it's natural to you. >> I mean I think that that's the thing. when I became a mom that was so. personally striking. This idea of. maternal instinct, I think, has had a. profound impact on our culture, right? Because I'm not saying there's nothing. about parenting that's instinctual. I.

think we instinctually love our kid or. there's certain moments that come. naturally, but yet when your kid is. having a grocery store meltdown and the. mom you're trying to become friends with. is kind of watching you in the store, right? When your kid says, "I hate you. You're the worst parent in the world.". When your kid is delaying, I don't know, at bedtime or brushing their teeth. When. your kid lies to your face, I didn't. take money. And you like see the nest. cam of them taking money. We're saying. we think our instinct is going to lead. to good decisions. No. Most people I.

know would say, my instinct is telling. me to scream in my child's face. You. know why? Because your parent probably. screamed in your face because they. didn't have the resources they need, right? And over and over, I'd be meeting. parents. It was so interesting. It was. mostly moms who would tell me always. some version of the same story. They'd. come in a live event, they'd say it's. something nice, and then they would. unload. And it was kind of some version. of I go to bed feeling awful about. myself. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm. yelling at my kids all the time. I feel. like I'm a monster. I feel like I'm. messing my kids up forever. Right? And.

then I would kind of contain the. situation. I'd listen and then I'd dig. in cuz I always want to know when. someone's struggling so much. What. resources do they have? And I'd always. hear the same thing. Resources like this. shouldn't be this hard. It shouldn't be. this hard. I should be able to figure. this out on my own. I don't know. Oh, it. just it was striking. If I think about. the best athletes in the world, even the. ones who have amazing athletic instinct, right? I don't know, Steph Curry, uh, LeBron James. Like, I'm pretty sure they. had a lot of coaching.

>> Yeah. >> Like, I'm pretty sure they weren't like, "Coaching's not for me. I should be able. to figure out this basketball thing on. my own." It's really interesting. I. think people in almost every other. field, they take pride in coaching. I. even think the best CEOs now it it's. it's almost embarrassing if you don't. have an executive coach. >> and you don't just get your advice on. Instagram. Like you really have. knowledge and learning and you dig in. and you feel good about it. And so yeah, if something is supposed to be done by. pure instinct, then the only explanation.

for why you're struggling is that you're. broken. >> Yeah. >> And I feel very passionately about. changing that narrative. >> Yeah. And I I believe you are. And to. that point that you're saying, I mean, I. had the fortune of interviewing Kobe. Bryant before he tragically passed away. around 3 months before. And he was so. clear about the fact that he just put in. more time. So it he was exactly what. you're saying. It's reaffirming your. point. He was actually doing double the. coaching that everyone else was. So he.

was in the gym before everyone got in. the gym. Then he did what everyone else. was doing in the gym, and then he'd go. home and work out again. Yeah. >> 2, three, four, and then eventually five. championships. I wanted to ask you about. that point because you talk about this. idea of parents not being perfect. >> Yes. >> But being good at repairing. >> Yes. >> Which I really, really value as an idea.

because I do think we all want to get it. perfect the first time and that's our. instinct. And like you said, the natural. instinct, even though we want to get it. perfect as a desire, the natural. instinct in any of those circumstances. is to act out, is to shout, scream, yell, instruct, direct, dictate. And you. gave a few really great anecdotal. examples there, but very real ones as. well. Talk to me about what parents. instinctually do so that we just. normalize the fact that it's okay.

because no one's going to get it right. the first time. And then talk to me. about how you repaired that given one of. those types of scenarios of going to. aunt's alleys or screaming in the. playground or. >> great repair without a doubt is the most. important parenting strategy. I would. say repair is the most important. relationship strategy because I think. everything we talk about at Goodside is. as relevant in a partnership or at work. with yourself any relationship. So let's. start with this desire to be perfect. I. think this is especially true with moms. I don't hear it as much from dads, honestly. And I think this goes back to.

a lot of gender roles. I think a lot of. us were socialized to be good girls, which I now put in quotes because I. realize being a good girl just means. being trained to gaze out and notice. what everyone in the world wants from. you and to become as distant as possible. from gazing in and noticing what you. might want for yourself. That's really. what it means. How can I please you? Yeah. How can I please you? How can I. How can I meet your need before you even. have a need? I notice you're twitching. You're about to get mad. I also know you.

kind of like this kind of drink, so I'm. going to go make you an iced tea and. bring it to you. Right? You're looking. everywhere and meeting everyone's needs. all the time, right? And I think a lot. of girls, they learned that that's where. their value was. And and I think that's. where they therefore they feel safest, >> right? Is when I'm getting it right for. everyone else. >> So now we have parenting, right? I mean, people often ask me like, "Is there a. perfect parent? Are you a perfect. parent?" I am definitely not a perfect. parent. There's no such thing as a.

perfect parent. And I just even want to. say, I don't even think it would be a. good thing for a kid to have a perfect. parent because the dynamic you establish. with your kid. The relationship with. your kid is the foundation for every. relationship they'll have after that. And I know it's heavy, but it's true, so. I'll say it. The nature of a. relationship you develop with your kid. is also going to impact who they're even. attracted to in adulthood because we're. attracted to what feels like home.

>> Mhm. >> Right. For better or for worse as a. natural attraction. >> Yeah. >> So I don't think any of us think it's. adaptive for a kid to go into the teen. adult years. Like who is that person out. there who's perfectly attuned to my. needs all the time? Like I'm sure you. and your wife that's not the way your. relationship works. Definitely not me. and my husband, right? >> Definitely not. The best it gets is. someone attunes to your needs a lot of. the time and they take ownership when. they don't and don't gaslight you and. don't kind of throw you under the bus or. blame you for their reaction.

>> and they repair. >> Mhm. >> And so if we like play that out, right? Yes. We are we're humans, not robots. We. have our own emotional life, our own. triggers. And whether it's Aunt Sally's. party or being lied to, or even, you. know, it's like the end of the night. I. think a classic one, and I know this. happens for me. Oh, chicken for dinner. This is disgusting. And it's like. everything you've done for the day and. all the moments when you felt invisible. And and the other things that happen. that have nothing to do with your kid,

it all completely overflows in your. bucket of difficult moments I've had to. hold together. And and you explode at. your kid. you're so ungrateful. You. know, what do you mean? Kids around the. world would be, you know, whatever we. say. We lecture. You're spoiled. And it. comes out often in a voice that's. legitimately scary. And it's scary in. part because our kids need us to. survive. So you're like, wait, parent, I. need for survival just became scary. Parent, I'm distant from. It's it's a. lot to manage. So that I would just say.

is the rupture moment. And I know this. is the moment people listening are like, "Yep, that's it. I'm a monster. I've. messed up my kid forever." Those are two. different things. Having a rupture. moment is not who you are. >> and it's not your future and it does not. dictate your entire relationship. Yelling at kids messes kids up far less. than yelling at kids and not repairing. after you've yelled. It's actually the. not repairing that's really hard because. then kids are left alone with this. intense set of feelings. They're.

confused and they have to figure out. like how do I feel safe again? What do I. do to move on? And if kids aren't given. a story by us to repair, they often make. up a story. And it's often a story of. self-lame cuz that's the only thing they. have. >> I'm a bad kid. Must be my fault. When. you repair with your kid, you you. actually get to do something magical. I. always tell parents, you actually get to. rewrite the ending of that chapter. >> because instead of that one chapter of. your kid's book being, I complained. about dinner and unleashed the scary.

voice from my parent and I went to my. room and I felt alone and I felt really. shaky. If you picture that as the ending. of a chapter, you then get to go in and. write, "And then my mom came in. >> and she said, I'm sorry I yelled. It's never your fault when I yell. I'm. working on managing my feelings so I. respond more calmly even when I'm. frustrated. I love you. It actually. changes the way the memory lives in. their body.

>> Those simple words, that approach. >> Memory is an event and every other time. you've remembered that event, which is. why something like therapy is helpful. >> So interesting. Why is therapy helpful? My childhood didn't change. But. remembering certain things in the. context of a new relationship changes. the way the original memory lives in. your body. You change the story around. the memory. >> Yes. >> And so every time you repair, whether it. was a quick, "Hey, I'm sorry. Let me try. that again. I'm sorry for yelling, you. know, at you earlier." Or, "Hey, I.

listened to this podcast. I heard a. couple things." And I think there were a. lot of years I just sent you to your. room. I think there were a lot of years. I never heard your side of the story. And I'm guessing that just felt really. bad. I'm sorry. And look, we definitely. might need time to cool off when things. are hot. But I'm going to really try to. come to you and better understand. instead of judge. And I want you to know. I care about that. I I I mean, the way. that lands in someone's body to reopen a. file.

>> and kind of give it a different ending. Yeah. I I I believe it's the most. powerful thing we can do. >> Yeah. Even if they don't react well in. the moment. >> Yes. And this is what I want to undo the. fantasy, right? Like I go to my teenage. son and I'm like, I'm so prepared. And. >> you know, and I picture my teenage son. saying, >> "Mom, I've been waiting for you to say. no. My teenage son is going to roll his. eyes and be like, you're being so weird. Get out of my room.". >> But in a way, a lot of us when we hear. something emotionally resonant in our.

best kind of moments, we say to someone. else, I just need to digest this. >> Yes. >> That that's what most kids are saying. Whether it's a toddler saying, "I need a. snack." Or it's my teenager saying, "You're being weird. Get out of my. room." I really think they're saying, "That was a lot, and I actually just. need to kind of push it away for a. moment so I can ingest it in my own. time." So, I would say, don't take the. bait. Trust that it mattered. Move on. Don't force the conversation. And I have. a feeling you'll see evidence of the. impact later. >> Yeah. The point about repairing really.

lands well because I was thinking about. when we were all learning how to drive. It was inevitable that at some point. we'd have an accident. So, you wanted to. be mindful. You didn't want to be. neglectful when you were a driver and. when you were trained. I've had car. accidents and I think I'm a pretty good. driver. I'm assuming with your nodding. right there. You've had a car accident. My wife's had car accidents. Thankfully, nothing too dangerous for any of us and. anyone I know. But the reality is you're. going to have some sort of an accident. >> Yeah. And the biggest mistake you can. make is to not repair your car when you.

have an accident and just keep driving. that car around and getting into more. accidents. And so that lands really. really well because it would be really. strange if someone had told me that I. was never allowed to scratch my alloys. or a rim or a hub cap or a a side of my. car and I had to like drive with that. level of I would probably have an. accident simply because I was. overthinking the whole thing. >> That That's right. Or stay in your room. all day. >> Yeah. You wouldn't even go out, >> right? I mean, a life worth living has. inherent risk, right? And so, yeah, I.

think that's a really good metaphor. You're going to make mistakes as a. parent. >> And if you see that as kind of a. feature, not a bug, >> then then you can change the focus to, okay, what now? And look, while we're. talking about repair, I think it's. important to get in that one of the the. biggest things that gets in our way of. repairing with our kid is that most of. us haven't learned to repair with. ourselves. Because what happens is we do. this thing. I yell at my kid. I say. they're spoiled brat. Whatever happens. in the kitchen when my son simply says.

maybe it's even just chicken for dinner. again, but it's just enough for, you. know, it feels like he's telling me I'm. a bad mom, you know, or something like. that. So, I've done this thing and for. so many people, they might have someone. in their life or like this person is so. stubborn. They never apologize. They're. so cold-hearted. I I see it a little. differently. I tend to use like a most. generous interpretation MGI perspective. I think people who really don't. apologize, they have a really hard time. separating identity from behavior. And. that idea of separating who we are from.

what we do, identity from behavior is. like a core principle of good inside and. a core way we teach parents to see. themselves and their kids, right? It. it's the difference between I yelled and. I'm a monster versus I am a good parent. who had a moment I'm really not proud. of. And I actually find doing that with. our hands really powerful because you. can see the difference. I'm a good. parent. identity one hand who did. something I'm not proud of another hand. versus I yelled I'm a monster. something's wrong with me it's an.

immediate there's no separation we can't. repair from this place we can't even. function from this place the saddest. thing is we can't learn from this place. it's shame right shame is an animal. defense freeze response we all should. know right when you are frozen you can't. make movement and so people who don't. apologize they usually have to hold this. thing they did so far away from them. They can't even look at it because it. feels so eviscerating to their identity. >> So, I actually think a first step for. repair, I just yelled at my kid.

>> I mean, very practically for me, I I if. I'm in some shame spiral, I sit. somewhere quiet. It's often, you know, my bathroom. I close the door. I see the. toilet. I put my hand on my heart, put. my feet on the ground, and I do say to. myself a bunch of times, 5, 10, sometimes 20. Okay, Becky, I made a. mistake. I'm a good parent who did. something I'm not proud of. even I'm a. good parent who yelled like I'm a good. parent who forces us as a sentence. structure to separate those two things. and then it's interesting I'm in a place.

where I can think about it more also. even before I pair with my kid what was. going on I had a really bad day I. honestly haven't worked out in a while I. know that's something I need to do for. myself um I was really frustrated from. work and I honestly just did not take a. moment in my lobby to sit down and talk. to myself about it and you know what I. was probably just a ticking time bob I. need to a couple things. I need to look. at my calendar and do something for me. I need to take some deep breaths in the. middle of the day. I need to sit in my. lobby before I go upstairs and say, "What was the most stressful part of my.

day? Let me write about it. Let me do. something to manage my emotions." The. only reason I can go through that. learning process is actually because. I've been able to separate what I did. from who I was. >> And now I can go to my son or my. daughter, whoever it is, and actually. give them a repair. And the other thing. is when we don't repair with oursel, we. do weird repairs with our kids and. they're not repairs. They're either, "I'm sorry I yelled, but if you didn't. complain about dinner, it wouldn't have. happened." That is not a repair. >> Or we say something like, "I'm sorry I. yelled. It's it's okay, right? It's.

okay, right? You forgive me." Like, we. ask our kid to do our job for us. Like, I picture like this 5-year-old kid who's. like, "You're you're asking me to take. care of your emotions after you yelled. at me? That is not a relationship. pattern we want to establish. Right. >> That resonates so strongly. Yeah. I feel. like if you don't go back and do the. separation of the identity and behavior. on your own, the kid actually just goes, I'm just not going to say how I feel. around mom or dad or mom's just angry or.

dad's just mad or whatever. And then. that becomes the label. Whereas when you. actually get to go up to them and say, "Hey, I had a really tough day at work. today. That is an excuse how I behaved. with you. >> Yeah. I'm really sorry about it. And um. you know Yeah. And and and you know that. that kind of ability to even get them to. have some context without making it. their fault. I think what what you're. saying when we repair wrongly, we may. give them the context but make it their. fault. Like hey, I had a really tough. day today. So if you didn't say chicken. wasn't terrible, I would have been fine.

Right. >> So I hope you understand I had a bad. day. And it's like oh but wait a minute. like that's too much for me to handle. right now. >> That's exactly right. Like and the thing. that always like creeps me out in a good. way cuz it makes me not do this is I. picture my son I don't know now he's 30. 40 let's say he's partnered and I'm at. his house visiting and he like screams. at his partner I don't know in a nasty. way and then I hear him say look I'm. sorry I yelled but if you had remembered. toilet paper like I asked you I wouldn't. have yelled. >> I'd be like.

this feels like I don't want to be here. this is a bad situation but if if I've. always repaired Mhm. >> in his childhood by saying, "I'm sorry I. did a bad thing, but look, at the end of. the day, your behavior caused me to do. that thing." Why would I be surprised. that that's what he takes into the. world, right? And and then I just want. to answer a question that's I know not. actively being asked, but it comes up. every time cuz parents are like, "But. can't my kid ask if we could have a. different dinner in a nicer way?" Or, "Okay, maybe I didn't yell because my.

kid didn't listen about putting on his. shoes, but if my kid put on his shoes, it wouldn't have happened. Help me. reconcile." separate the two things. I. would say do a real repair and then give. yourself very practically like 24 hours. Have a very different conversation which. might be look there's going to be some. days you don't like dinner. Is there a. way you could tell me you don't like. dinner that's equally as true for you as. it is respectful for someone else? Or my. four-year-old won't put on his shoes or. her shoes 24 hours later after I say. sorry. Hey, mornings have been really.

tough for both of us. I wonder if. there's anything we can think about. together that would make putting on. shoes easier. I totally understand. That's realistic. But just don't don't. collapse them together. >> Yeah, that's that's the point. Yeah. Usually, again, we do extremes. We. either disappear and hope that tomorrow. is a new day, which doesn't work, it. sounds like. Or we try and do everything. in that first go at it, and then it then. it collapses, too. What's been the. hardest? You you've said this before. which I really like this idea of they're. not giving me a hard time, they're.

having a hard time. >> Yes. >> And that differentiate is really. powerful because I think our language is. they're giving me a hard time. >> Yeah. I mean, look, I'm sure you think. about this in so many other contexts and. it's the same as parenting. But to me, when you're in conflict with anybody, you have one of two mindsets. Okay? the. first mindset and let's say it's us. where it's like I'm on one side of the. table and Jay is on the other side of. the table and I'm just looking at you. like you are the problem and we wouldn't.

have a problem if you just came to my. side and did something more like me, >> right? The other mindset is different. Instead of me against you where you're. the problem, it's me and you on the same. side of the table against a problem. I. actually think in business, in marriage, with your in-laws, definitely with your. kids, you literally shouldn't have a. conversation about something conflictual. until you can get yourself in the me and. this person against a problem mindset.

My kid is giving me a hard time is such. a good example of me against you. My kid. is having a hard time is me and you. against a problem. And I love strategies. and scripts. I'm sure we'll get into. more of them. And I love all those. things, but they all fall flat at the. end of the day if you're not operating. in an effective mindset. And to me, the. most important thing a parent can do. when they're in a tricky situation with. their kid, mornings are so tough. My kid. is giving me a hard time. They won't get. out the door. Oo, I hear that phrase, giving me a hard time. How can I get. into a me and my kid against a problem?

Me and my kid on the same team. perspective because then I can think. about it very differently. What might be. getting in the way of my kid getting out. the door? I guess they're going to. school. maybe getting out the door. They're a smart kid. They kind of know. as soon as they put their shoes on, they're saying bye to daddy. Maybe. that's it. And all of a sudden, something happens when you get in the. same team mindset. I I think we always. love our kids, but when we're in an. opposite team mindset, nobody likes to. say this, but we stop liking them in the.

moment. And and there is nothing that is. a strategy that will matter more than. the fact that your kid just feels that. from you. >> When we're on the same team, like. something amazing happens. you start. liking your kid again. Now it's like a. problem to solve together and everything. becomes more effective from there. >> What's been the hardest personal. situation for you where you feel like. you've just been in that zone where you. yelled or you didn't like them or you. were just repairing? Like what was the. hardest for you personally that took you. the most time to get back to this?

>> I mean it happens. I just want to say I. I I feel like parenting is more like. yoga than anything else. like people who. are really into yoga like it's it's the. practice like there's no destination. So. I'm happy to share some stories and I. will but I don't want anyone to think. like oh that was then and this is now. right like this is a constantly evolving. muscle and our kids are always changing. right so you know one of my kids my you. know my deeply feeling kid where she. feels things more intensely the. explosions are more intense and there.

can be huge reactions to things that. seem small on the surface going to a. birthday party not having the chair she. wants not watching a family movie that. everyone else wants to watch right and. it can feel in the time like why are you. being so difficult. >> right versus hold on she's having a hard. time with something by the way I want to. say that doesn't mean I need to cater to. that like it's not like she doesn't want. to sit in this chair so hey everyone get. up so your sister can always have the.

chair she wants or oh we're going to. watch the movie she wants I actually. don't believe in that but again if. that's the boundary part over here what. can be hard yeah is getting back to hold. on she's a good kid who's having a hard. time I think that phrase phrase to me. that I put out in the world is is like. one of the most important phrases just. to like practice at random times in your. head. I have a good kid who's having a. hard time. It becomes like a little song. >> in the same way as I'm a good parent. who's having a hard time. >> time, you know. Um and then I I mean I. think I have a kid who's getting older. who's a teen. I mean it's tricky. You.

feel you feel rejected. It feels like. it's on their time schedule. Like I want. to talk to my kid all day and you know. he doesn't he's doing his things. He's. with his friends and then it's 9:45 and. I'm actually tired and maybe I'll get to. bed early and he's like, "Mom, I want to. talk." And of you know, my first. reaction is a little like. >> I've been around all day. >> Yeah. Like what? Like oh, now that you. want to talk like you know and I kind of. want to retaliate for something, right? And then I try to take a deep breath on.

my good days and say this is. adolescence. His job is to separate from. me. He's trying to figure that out. It's. messy. He is supposed to be exploring. the world, but but I always think with. adolescence like they need to be. explorers, not nomads. But when we take. them so personally and then refuse to. connect, we're actually just leaving. them. >> as nomads, which is someone without a. home base. >> It's like, great, he's a teen. He's. doing his job. Let me take a deep. breath. I have 5 minutes. Let me go to. his room. Right. I think that's what it.

kind of like looks like in real life. >> Yeah. If I as a dad when I have a child, if they came up to me and they really. were excited about something, they. wanted to share it and I was busy with. work or I said, "Hey, I just can't talk. about that right now.". >> Yeah. >> What what impact does that have? >> First of all, I I I think there's some I. don't know narrative out there like as a. parent, we should be some type of always martyr, right? Like you're in the middle of a. project. I'm making this up. You're like. you're, you know, we're similar like you. have some idea. I got to get it down and. it's going to whatever it is, you know,

you're creating something. you're. working on something. A good parent is. someone who drops that at every second. to look at my kids's art project. I. don't know, whatever it is. I don't buy. it. I don't buy it. No. Do I think a. good parent is someone who would never. do that? Obviously not. Again, there's a. middle ground. I think like most. relationships, it's about the how. Can't. you see I'm working? This is ridiculous. This is a Lego tower. It's kind of. stupid. I have a big job. I wouldn't. recommend that. That's not going to feel. good. Okay. But if that's one extreme.

and the dropping, you know, all the time. is the other. I think what's in the. middle, like kind of the sturdiness we. talk about is, wow, it looks like you're. working on something really interesting. I really want to see it. You know what's. crazy? I'm working on something really. interesting and I need 5 minutes to. finish it. I'm going to need those 5. minutes actually in silence, which is. going to be a little annoying. I'm going. to ask you to leave my office and close. the door. And I promise you right after. that, I'm going to come and I'm not. going to have my phone. And I want to. see this thing you built and hear all. about it. There's this kind of almost.

wash, rinse, repeat that I think in. these moments where boundaries and. empathy and connection. They're they're. really not an either or. So many models. of parenting have been one or the other. And I think at Good Inside, we bring. them together. And I think, you know, I. don't know. I think about people work in. an office and they want to talk to their. CEO. And that's what you want to hear. from someone. I actually don't want a. CEO who all the time is like, I'm going. to drop everything. Of course, >> right? Or you you're on a plane, >> right? and you know, you want to visit. the pilot with, you know, with your kid.

or something, right? And they're getting. the plane ready. You don't want a pilot. who they're getting everything ready. They're like, "Sure, come on in." You're. like, "Were you just fixing that. engine?" Like, you know, "Hey, I'm in. the middle of something. This is really. important. I see your interest. That's. awesome. I'll let you know when it's. ready and then we'll do that." That. combination, boundaries, and empathy. To. me, that's always magic. >> Yeah. It It was funny. I was thinking I. was thinking of my kid coming running up. to me and like, "Go away. I've got to. interview Dr. Rebecca Kennedy on the. podcast about how to be how to be a good. parent. Like I'm like that's the No. And.

and I appreciate that because that to me. is just and I I'm that's really. reaffirming to hear because I feel like. that's just having good healthy adult. conversations. That's what it is. >> And it's giving context and it's. providing a perspective on why and what. and where we're at. It's not just like, hey, I don't have time right now. I'm. doing something really important. There's there's a validation of them, but there's a validation of yourself. And again, they may not react well to. that. They may when you come back. downstairs they might be like I'm not. doing it anymore. Right. Like. >> that's right. >> I don't care anymore. Like it was it's.

done. It's broken. Like I don't know. >> That's right. Lego is broken. >> Or again like when I set some of the. boundaries I feel really proud of with. my kid. Take a different example, right? Like my kid is watching TV and the show. is over and I told them they could watch. that one episode and it's over and I. have the remote cuz that's the thing. It's like we leave our kid with the. remote and we're surprised we have power. struggles. They shouldn't have the. remote, right? cuz of course they're. going to want to watch more. They're. good kids who are addicted to TV like. the rest of us. But let's say it's at. the end and my kids like one more, one.

more. Maybe for whatever reason, I've. decided it's really over tonight. Okay, this is like sturdy leadership in. action. I may say, look, I get it. It's. so hard to stop watching TV. Honestly, it's hard for me, too. It's kind of. designed to feel like it's not enough. You want to watch the next episode? Something like that. Or, hey, you wish. you could watch another one. Keep it. simple. Next part. And TV time is over. I actually have the remote. I'm going to. turn it off. I get it. That's annoying. If I do that in my house, I fear and. it's a fear that people hearing me think.

I do that and my kids like stand up and. applause and they're like, "That was A+. parenting mom. I'm so lucky to have you. You're keeping me safe from technology. and you're validating my feelings." That. is that has never happened one time. Actually, what's important for parents. to know when you set a true boundary, I'm happy to talk about this cuz I think. people get boundaries all wrong what. they are. But when you set a true. boundary, especially if your kid isn't. used to it, your kid always responds in. the same way, a tantrum every time. That. is your big reward as a parent. Like.

you're like, I I just did the thing and. this is the next thing. Like where's. where is the confetti? No confetti. Okay. But if you actually know that your. kid's tantrum. is a sign that you did actually set a. true boundary, you become a lot less. reactive to it because unconsciously we. think our kids tantrum is a sign we're. doing a bad job as a parent. >> Our kids tantrum is often a sign we set. a boundary and they're upset about it, which then means we can just do the next.

part of our job. can validate. Oh, I. know you wish you were an adult and. could decide whatever number of TV shows. you wanted to watch. But you better bet. even as I'm saying that I'm not I'm not. turning on the TV again. I'm not that's. not happening. Boundary. They get upset. We can validate. We hold the boundary. kind of over and over. >> And And where's like any emotional? Is. there any hugging? Is there like. affection? Like or is. >> Yeah, I think everyone's kid is. different. One of my kids might really. want that. I know it stinks. Come here.

you know, and I'm hugging, right? Cuz. that's what happens in the best. relationships, right? Where if I I don't. know if if I was making not so good. decisions for myself, even as an adult. I don't know. I'm at a party and like. seeing you and I'm like, Jay, I hate. you. Your podcast stinks. I'm And my. husband was there. I would hope he'd. like pick me up and carry me out and sit. with me in a room. Not because that's. something he did to me, because it was. something he would do for me. And then. maybe even there I'd be like, "I had a.

bad day." And he'd be like, "I know. >> you had a rough time at Jay's party. I. was not your best." Right? So yeah, maybe I'm hugging another one of my kids. and be like, "Get away from me." And I. might just kind of stay where I am and. say nothing because my. >> calm presence is the version of. connection she might want. Right? So, I. think that's where what I really love. about Good Inside and what I see from. like our members is they're like I love. that they've taken the principles and. then they take their unique knowledge, their unique values, their unique.

awareness of what's happening and they. apply it. >> in a way that feels totally them. >> Yeah, I I agree. I think the challenge. we've created is that we think effective. communication. is when you get the perfect reaction. >> Yes. And I don't think that's true as a. parent or as an adult or or in any. capacity because that's right, you could. communicate something really. exceptionally effectively and the. reaction is not the direct response to.

whether you communicated effectively or. not. We think if the kid did applaud or. there was confetti or they turned around. and said, "Okay, mom, I'll go to bed.". We think that's a good day, right? So, it's almost this idea of and this again. applies to marriage too. You almost feel. feel like when the person's just. responding to you saying, "You're. amazing. Well done." Or even if it's not. that forward, the idea of, "I'm doing. everything you tell me to," we see as a. sign of good communication. >> I see something very similar with so. many parents, and I think this is maybe.

the biggest thing we love to help shift. We use our kids' behavior or their. reactions as a barometer of whether. we're a good parent. And we lose oursel. in the process because we're so busy. gazing out versus gazing in. What's a. version of gazing in? Is this a decision. I believe in? >> Do I feel like I'm actually being a good. leader? Do I feel like this is a. decision maybe not only for today but. for, you know, every once in a while. when we have the energy, a decision that. really helps our kid become the kind of.

teen and adult we'd want them to be, you. know. So, I heard this story from a. parent the other day. It was really. interesting. It was kind of this classic. public meltdown, right? Birthday party. Her kid only wanted to sit next to the. birthday party kid. I get this. It's a. big thing. Sitting next to the birthday. party kid is a big deal. Pizza time came cuz everyone has pizza. They're birthday parties. Her kid had to. go to the bathroom and she's like this. is this is not going to be good because. I know after the bathroom that seat next.

to my kid would elbow that's going to be. gone. It was gone. Okay. Major public. meltdown. All you know I had to have. that seat. I need that seat mean I was. like this kid's birthday party. So many. times I see this lack of sturdiness. I. see I'm making up this name. Nora. Nora. We don't yell at other people's birthday. parties. I mean, it is it is actually so. sad to witness because kids need us to. embody our authority. I would say I. couldn't say it's authority without. aggression, which almost feels like an. oxymoron these days. It's rarely.

modeled, but it's authority without. aggression. Now, this mom was telling me. this story and she goes, "You know, it's. interesting. Number of months ago, I had. a family dinner. My child had this major. meltdown. It was it was the worst day of. my week. Like, I felt like it was my. biggest parenting fail." Here's what's. crazy. I knew exactly what to do. I. picked her up first. I pulled her to the. side. I said, "Oh, this is a hard time. Look, this is a birthday party. That. seat's not available. These others are.". It just escalated further and further. And as a parent, sometimes, you know, this is past the point of no return.

This is not not going to be a good. situation. What I knew to do, I picked. her up. I said, "Nora, I'm picking you. up. I'm carrying you to the car. We're. just not going to be able to finish this. birthday party today. You're a good kid. having a hard time. You're not in. trouble. I'm going to help you through. this. Her kid, no. Give me another. chance. But she was far gone. Carried. her to the car. They drove away. They. got home. And she said to me, "Is it. weird that that was my parenting win?" I. just thought it was so beautiful. I. don't think that's weird. I don't think. that's weird at all. To me, the biggest.

wins we have in parenting and in so many. parts of life. are when we shift from my job is to. avoid all turbulence to I actually know. exactly what to do in the turbulence. And when you know what to do in the. turbulence, which takes practice and. learning and support and never being. perfect, you actually feel stronger. having piloted a plane through that. storm. >> and safely gotten to ground rather than. the anxiety of like. >> I just need to avoid it. >> Yeah. That's so we feel so fragile when.

we're doing that. >> You've said before that it's not your. job to make your kids happy, which. applies to what you're saying right now. >> Yeah. And what is a parent's job? >> So, I I think I want to talk about both. those things. Let's start with a. parent's job and then why not only isn't. our job to make our kids happy, but why. it's actually a really bad thing for. them. The idea of a parent's job has. actually come up for me because over and. over I'd see people in my private. practice and, you know, now through. Instagram different things and they'd be. like, "My kid's having a tantrum. My kid.

is so mean to her brother. My kid won't. do his homework." Whatever the situation. was. And I'd say, "Okay, look, all. parents want to do a good job. I know. that." But I'd always say to a parent, just tell me, "What is your job? Forget. if you can perform it well. What is your. job?" Every parent would look at me. like, "I have no idea.". >> Yeah. >> And then I think about just offices. Like I picture someone coming to their. job the first day and their boss saying, "Do a good job." And the person saying, "But but I don't have a job description. I by the way, I also don't even know. what that dude does over there. I kind.

of need to know what that person's lane. is. I definitely need to know what my. job is. >> if I'm going to do it well. So I think. any parent listening is like it's true. What is my job? If you don't know. >> then there's immense clarity. Forget. trying to do it well. We just have to. have the clarity in the foundation. >> Absolutely. >> So I think a parent always has two jobs. It's almost every situation and I'll. defined one of them which we didn't get. to yet. So setting boundaries and. validating your kids's emotions and they. go hand in hand. >> Setting boundaries is widely.

misunderstood. I'll share what my. definition of boundaries are, which is. as applicable to adults as it is to kid. Boundaries are something you tell. someone you will do and they require the. other person to do nothing. >> Mhm. >> We often say, "This person doesn't. respect my boundaries." To me, with. respect, it's often a sign that someone. has an inaccurate definition of a. boundary because you're giving all your. power to the other person. >> So, I I often ask a parent, "Well, what. do you mean your kid isn't listening. yet? I live in New York City. This is.

like my kid and I always say when we go. into the elevator buttons, don't press. the buttons. Don't press all the. buttons. And then my kid goes and presses all the. buttons. He does not respect my. boundaries. He has a listening problem. Now, if you have a kid, like one of my. kids who is 0% people pleasing. It's. going to take a little bit longer than. other kids to manage urges. Okay. A. boundary isn't don't press the button. Is that something I'm telling my kid I. will do? No. Does it require my kid to.

do nothing? No. I'm giving all of my. power to my four-year-old. A boundary. would be saying, "Hey, when we go into. the elevator, I'm going to be between. you and the buttons. I know it's fun to. press the button, sweetie. It's just not. something I'm going to allow." And yep, even if you lunge for it, I'm going to. block you. That It's true. It's like you. got to get like your like karate like. there there's some moves in as a parent. I'll teach you them. It's remarkably. like kind of, you know, some interesting. dance moves going on, but that's a. boundary. It's not something I'm doing.

to my kid. I'm doing it for him so I. don't let him feel like an out of. control kid. And this is important so I. don't let myself get so frustrated that. I end up yelling random punishments I. have no intention of keeping anyway. No. dessert tonight. And then I'm like. actually you can have dessert. I don't I. don't even care. I don't want you have a. tantrum. Like this is what we do. So. that's part of our job. Setting true. boundaries. Another great example of. this. My kid takes the iPad when it's. not iPad time. First thing to a. question. I'm like how? They're like, "What do you mean? How he just takes. it?" If it's not iPad time, why does.

your kid even have access to where the. iPad is? >> A boundary without words would be what I. do. It's not, "Hey, don't touch the iPad. in the kitchen." I'm sorry. I'm just. going to speak for myself. If my phone. is in a room and someone tells me not to. look at it. >> Yeah, you're looking at it. Yeah. >> I'm just not that I don't have a great. hit rate there. Those things are very. addictive. Okay. And I have more. self-control than my 5-year-old. Right. A boundary would be saying, "Hey, from. now on, just so you know, the iPad is. going to completely out of reach, out of.

sight. It's not cuz I don't trust you. It's cuz those things are actually built. to draw your whole body to them." It. really wasn't fair for me to put it. somewhere. >> and ask you not to get it. So, it's just. going to be away until it's iPad time. When it's over, it will shut off and. then I'll put it back in that place. >> Done. That's part of our job. The other. part of our job is connecting to our. kids' feelings. is seeing our kids'. feelings as real while not allowing. those feelings to overpower us. That is. so important. People think validating a.

kid's emotions means agreeing with their. emotions. It does not. My kid is having a grilled cheese. They. always like it cut into rectangles. These things matter. And I cut it into. rectangles. And today is the day the. kids like, I need it in triangles, right? Whatever it is. Now, to me, I. know intellectually like this feels. crazy. I actually thought about how to. cut it. I cut it in a rectangle. That's. how you usually like it, but I don't. have to agree. Who knows what this is.

really about? Validation would just be, "You really wish it was in a triangle. today." Or, "Oh, this feels really bad. It feels like the grilled cheese isn't. even going to be yummy when it's cutting. this way." People often think if I do. that, that means I'm making a new. grilled cheese. Depending on the day, if. I want to, maybe I will. maybe I won't. because I'm holding the boundary. But. validation is simply seeing someone. else's experience as real for them. And. I think when you think about those two. jobs, boundaries and validation, the.

reason they're so important is I I kind. of profoundly believe that kids are. always asking two questions. Am I safe? And our boundaries answer that. And am I. real? Because kids have such intense. feelings. I mean, you and I have intense. feelings. And the thing about feelings. that's so fascinating is when you fall. and skin your knee, you see blood. So. you're like, "Ow, that's painful." But. then you often have some representation. of how it's real. Well, I'm bleeding or. I have a black and blue. Feelings are.

very unique. They are such visceral. sensations coursing through your body. without any external manifestation. and. there's no blood test to like tell you. you're having anger. So that's very. confusing for kids. And so part of what. happens for kids when they're feeling. intense emotions is we sometimes take. the bait too much about the concrete. thing they're upset about. What they're. really trying to figure out, which is. really the basis of confidence, is are.

the things that I am perceiving, feeling. in my body, are those things real? Because I have to know if they're real. before I can learn how to manage them. I. feel like a lot of people think that. their job is to make their kids good. people or to be successful or to do well. or be able to survive the real world. when they grow up. >> Would you say that am I safe and am I. real which I love those questions. Would. you say that boundaries and validation. almost will help do all those things?

>> I think that's a beautiful question. because I guess I'm zoomed zoomed in to. often like well what is my job in the. moment and I think what you're saying is. like what is my goal for my kid? I have. those goals for my kids. I want them to. be resilient, which really means I want. them to be able to handle challenges and. know that they can bounce back from hard. things. I want them to be able to. tolerate discomfort, not avoid it or. look for the quickest exit from it. I. want my kid to feel really at home in. their body. I want my kid to feel. confident, which to me has nothing to do. with feeling good about yourself. Is. actually about selfrust, which is why it. goes back to feeling like your feelings.

are real and feeling like you are a. better perceiver of your feelings than. other people are for you. Yes, I do. believe, of course, there's a lot more. nuance, but in general, setting. boundaries, staying connected to your. kid by validating their emotions. There's other things, too, right? Supporting them in their struggle, not. rescuing, asking yourself pretty often, am I still doing things for my kid that. they can start to learn how to do for. themselves, and how can I solely back. away? How can I set my kid up for.

capability, not fragility? Right? There's other things, but in general, yes, I think boundaries and validation. when paired together, they do. That's. what makes for really resilient adults. >> I I I would agree with you, and I've. never heard it that way before. And I I. really like that because I think. sometimes when we think, "Oh, I want to. have kind kids." And then we're trying. to model kindness for them. But the. problem is if kindness is free of. boundary and free of validation or. kindness looks like validation with no. boundaries to us. >> That's right. and then they're not.

getting kindness because they don't know. what self-kindness looks like and they. only see the martyr or the. self-sacrificed version of kindness, quote unquote, and then that isn't an. accurate form of kindness. Now they. think kindness means I'll do things for. people even if they exploit, abuse, or. don't have any set of understanding with. me. So they don't become a kind person. They become someone that people take. advantage of. >> I think I think that's really poignant, right? And and look, it's true. I think. this thing people say flippantly like. I'll be in a dinner or something, you. know, and someone's like, "Don't you.

just want your kids to be happy?" And I. always I always picture my husband being. like, "Becky, please don't ruin that was. just a throwaway comment." Like, "Don't. >> this is amazing. >> It'll be a bummer." You know, and then. like half the time I listen, half the. time I'm like, "Actually, it's not what. you want." Everyone's like, "What?" I'm. like, "Sorry, I just can't help myself.". Um, but and again, we love as humans, we. hear someone say, "No, that's not true.". And then people will say to me, "You. want your kids to be unhappy?" Obviously. not. There's again so much in between. two extremes. But here's the thing about. optimizing for happiness in childhood. I.

I firmly believe and I've seen it over. and over that the more you optimize for. happiness in childhood, >> the more you actually wire for anxiety. in adulthood. >> Explain that. >> Let's take a situation that happens. often and then I'll zoom out, but I. think the stories matter. >> Please. Yeah. >> Um they do. >> I'm the only one in my class who can't. read. My kid comes home and says this. This is first of all, let me just say. this is so painful. Like seeing your kid. in pain as a parent, >> it's so painful. I think a lot of our.

instinct is let me make my kid happy, right? And and we all me too. I will say. the craziest things. I'm like, well, Bobby isn't even good at lacrosse. At. least you're good at lacrosse. That's. going to matter more. And I'm like, why. am I throwing Bobby under the bus? What. did Bobby do? He's like a totally nice. kid. Whatever it is, we say nutty. things, right? Um and so I'm the only. one in class who can't read, right? And. so I think an image helps here a lot. because it explains why we don't want to. make them happy and it explains. resilience and anxiety all at once. So. the way I think I want someone to. imagine this is your kid is kind of. wandering around a garden and there's.

benches in this garden. A lot of them. and right now they're on the bench of. I'm the only one who can't read. But I. think you and I Jay we know that's not. really the bench. The bench is I see. people who are able to do things I can't. do. >> or I feel jealous or I feel less than. And the truth is that is a bench you. will sit on at various times for the. rest of your life. >> Yeah. That feeling of. >> everyone else can read better than me is. something you're going to feel at. college, at work.

>> life. Or maybe it's I wasn't invited to, you know, whoever's birthday party. You. know what? You're going to I'm I'm not. included in something. I don't have that. popular belong the rest of your life. So. if I picture my kid on this bench, I. think as parents, we often have two. instincts. Number one, we try to we try. to convince our kid that their bench. isn't their bench. That can't be true. You can't be the only one not reading. yet. Even though our kid is kind of like. telling us, right? Which over time, if. that's the pattern, creates a ton of.

self-distrust. Oh, >> maybe other people know how to perceive. my world better than I know how to. perceive this world. All in the name of. trying to not make my kid uncomfortable. or we see a sunny bench on that side of. the garden and we're kind of like just. come you're an amazing lacrosse player, you're the fastest kid, but you're an. amazing artist and and all of that can. be true, but if you think about to me. what anxiety is, I don't think anxiety. is a feeling as much as it's a running. away from a feeling. It's kind of the.

experience of I don't want to be feeling. the way I am right now. >> So, a kid is wiring up their body. They're understanding how the world. works and they're understanding in. childhood what feelings and experiences. are tolerable and what feelings and. experiences are intolerable. The latter. become anxiety. So, mom, I'm the only. one who can't read and I'm like, "Oh, that's not true." Or, you know, I just. kind of fix it right away or I throw. them a party to make them distracted. So, what does my kid learn in their. body? I was feeling disappointed, less.

than. And what kids wire next is our. response. And what comes next is. escape into happiness, escape into. distraction. >> And if we think about this bench, my kid. is sitting on this bench. And I think. we're all in those moments just looking. for someone to sit down next to us. Because the thing is, if my parent can. sit on this bench with me, it can't be. as awful as I think it is. It literally.

if they yank me from it or try to. convince me it's not true. What they're. really saying is you're feeling upset. But I I can't really connect to the part. of you that feels this way. I can't do. that. That is so. scary for a kid because they're like, I. guess this really is bad. And so in the. name of kind of making our kid happy, what we really do is we develop a whole. range of emotions. our kids learn are.

intolerable. and if we think about what anxiety is. later on kind of okay so let's say this. kid later on again I'm not this is not. one intervention this would be many many. patterns right but whenever a kid is. upset optimize for happiness optimized. for happiness I think the thing we. realize at a certain age it's different. for everyone 14 18 50 whatever it is is. when I'm really upset about something. and something doesn't go my way there. actually isn't always an offramp to. happy like when I fired from my job. I'm.

not going to be happy in an hour. I. mean, and I mean this. I mean, but. seriously, I guess maybe if I go to. drugs, I'll be happy right away. I mean, maybe if I have something else, but. feelings don't work that way. >> Yeah. >> And and there's no one, I don't think, who's just given me a new job. like and. so by the time I get to those hard. moments in adult life either I've. developed the ability to cope with. feelings or I'm so accustomed to always. expecting happiness that ironically the.

way I feel my distress is even more. intense because the gap is so big, right? It's kind of like the light goes. on of distress and I've always expected. it to go totally off. I don't even have. a dimmer switch anymore. It's just on is. horrible and I need it to go off. When I. think about what that means and then I. like to give parents like an. alternative. My kid says I'm the only in. my class who can't read. I actually. think there's three lines like cuz I. like Yeah. that can like really embody.

the idea of what I say like we always. say good inside the feelings bench. Sit. on the bench. Sit on the bench and and. you become a bench warmer. Right. So, the first one is just I'm so glad you're. talking to me about this. This is so. powerful in marriage, too. Like, or. work, you know? Hey, I feel like you've. been on your phone a lot, and I don't. know. I feel really disconnected. Imagine if the first thing your partner. says back is, "I'm so glad you're. talking to me about this." What you're. actually saying in a deep attachment way.

is, "The part of you who feels this way. is attachable to me. >> I'm sitting with you. I'm so glad you're. talking to me about this." Yeah, they. were handing out books and everyone got. chapter books and I got this baby. picture book. The second line, ultimate. confidence builder is just I believe. you. We can talk more about that. I. think those are the three most important. lines in parenting often. Just I believe. you. And then the third is going to feel. remarkably unsophisticated but is so. powerful is just tell me more. Tell me. more. Oh yeah. And then and then it was.

like me in a reading group of one and my. friends were on this other reading. group. And the amazing thing that. happens 99% of the time, I'm so glad. you're talking to me about this. I. believe you. Tell me more. Your kid then. tells you the story. What you're really. saying is, "I'm on the bench with you. I'm not afraid of this bench. I don't. need to take you to a sunny bench. I'm. here. How bad could a bench be if I'm. willing to sit on it? I'm not going to. let us both self-destruct. I am here.". And then what happens 99% of the time. truly in this visual is your kid gets. off the bench before you do. They. literally like I've seen this a million.

times. My kids are like, "Oh, can I have. that snack now?" And I'm like, "I'm. sorry, what?" Oh, okay. Like you just. wanted to know that I could tolerate. this, that I could be with you in this. And then what we do in their body is not. with the story cuz the story is just a. representation of a feeling. Disappointment, jealousy, embarrassment, whatever it is, has a little bit more of. a container and a home. So the next time. a kid feels that feeling, it's not as. panicky as a home. And if you think. about your body as all these jars of. feelings, and this is the irony about.

happiness, the more jars we have to. contain different parts of our distress, the more space there is. >> for happiness. Anyway, >> yeah, that's that's a beautiful visual. as well. It's a really nice thing to. think about. Is there a part of that do. you then address the reading challenge. or what do you do from a practical. standpoint on that after that moment? >> Love it. So, right. So, let's say this. is happening and then you're thinking. like, does my kid need a reading tutor?

Do I just need to spend all of that can. happen? >> Now, I I think what kids really feel in. our first response, I'm the only one who. class can't read. Okay, one second. I'm. calling the reader tutor right now. In a. way, the visual again is like, my kid is. still alone on the bench. Like, where'd. my mom go? Where'd my dad go? She is, you know, I just So, I would say again, just like stay for a bit. >> I I think one of the most underutilized. things in parenting is time. It's like. and I think. >> we don't have Yeah. >> Yeah. Or maybe we do have, >> you know, I can call that too. Why don't.

I just give myself to the night? Let me. sleep on it because my kid is going to. pick up on kind of my panic and my own. anxiety around it. So, absolutely, if. that was me, I might think, "Ooh, maybe. I need to sit with my kid. Maybe I need. to teach them some phonics." Does it. have anything to do with phonics? Are. they a kid who's kind of perfectionistic. and they're just not wanting to try. because they're failing? Do they have a. a sibling who's really gifted and so. they've labeled themselves as the not. smart kid? Again, there could be a. million things. It might not even be an.

academic tutor, but I think when you sit. on the bench, you give yourself also a. little bit more time to tolerate it. You. can access your curious mind and then. absolutely of course I'm I love taking. action, but it but it would be from like. a sturdier place. >> and in a way that's actually going to be. more helpful to your kid. >> Yeah, that's that I I couldn't agree. more. I mean, I know when I've done the. healthy thing or the unhealthy thing in. my marriage, like it's really common. I. remember the other day my my wife.

approached me and she had this new. business idea that she just shared with. me randomly in a moment and I was like, "Yeah, we can't do that right now cuz. we're doing this thing over here. Like, we're already building this and that's. going to" And she was like, "Just give. me an opportunity to just tell you about. it." Like, and she she said in she. called me out in a nice way and she was. just like, "I literally just wanted to. share something I was really. enthusiastic about." And I was like, "Oh. god, I'm. >> Totally." She's like, "Sit on my. enthusiasm bench for a moment.". >> Literally, that's all she wanted me to. do. And and you know, she was she was. more than willing to hear my logical. reason as to why it's not the right time.

or maybe it was or maybe I and I was and. and again, it was a complete reflection. of my own insecurity or anxiety I was. having around something else. >> Yeah. >> And I was reflecting that, projecting. that on to her. and she was kind enough. to call it out to me in a in a way that. didn't lead to an argument. >> which it may have in the past like you. know which maybe maybe 5 years we've. been together for 12 years but 5 years. ago maybe we would have dealt with that. very differently but her being able to. say that to me I was like yeah you're. right actually like you just were.

excited to share something with me and I. had the time I was there with you I was. just giving you I wasn't even listening. >> yeah I wasn't present. >> and I and I just want to be clear like I. talk a really good game this whole. sitting on the bench thing it's it's. hard of Of course I don't do that all. the time. We're we're all like we're in. a rush. We just want to fix and move on. But these ideas and doing them a little. bit more often or trying them one time. >> Yeah. >> It's really cool to see what happens. >> Well, I think you hit the nail on it. The fix and move on. It's like that's we.

want to remove. the pain of the people we love, right? We want to be able to extract the pain. in that moment and we see that as. success. For us, healthy parenting or. healthy relation is if you share a pain. with me, if I can take it away right now. like magic, then I've done my job. And. therefore, we call the tutor. We I say, "Oh, here are all the logical list of. reasons. Don't worry about it." It's. this fix and move on. And what you're. asking us to do is not fix until later. It's almost like don't move. Sit right.

here. >> Yeah. >> And then think about fixing it maybe in. 24 hours, 48 hours and trying to figure. out what what the problem is. But it's. completely the opposite of what we think. success is. >> It is. And I think kind of having that. idea in your mind really matters to. start the different actions. Like wait, even if I just say it, like we all have. to try on ideas before we believe them. It's not my job to remove my kid's. distress. It's not my job to make my kid. happy. If my kid has a really hard day,

that is not a sign I have failed. Now, I. I like to take hard ideas and turn them. like so far on their head that they. become hyperbolic. And so, I'll share. here because it might be useful because. now that I work the amount I do, right? I think about the the time that I have. with my kids, right? I'm like, I really. want to make the most out of it. And. there was this period when my kids were. younger. I was like, man, I come home, it's just like a tantrum and whining. And it's really easy. I hear this from. friends, too. Like, that's what I come.

home to. like I I bust my butt to leave. work early, to come home, to the. tantrum, to the whining. Okay, but. here's here's a way to shift it, right? Or to hear about my kid being left out, these painful things. I I know a lot of. people, and I definitely would put you. in this category, who are driven by. impact. And I actually think as humans, we have a lot of needs. I actually think. impact is a need. Like I think we need. to feel impactful in the world. When our. kids are perfectly happy, mom, you came. home from work. Thank you. Also, I got. 100 on my test and three of my friends.

are planning parties. I was invited to. all of them and in general just feeling. 10 out of 10. Okay, that's never. happened. But let's just say that did. >> I would love to witness that moment, but. I promise you I'm not impactful in my. kids' life in that moment. My kids fine, moving on. I don't even know how many of. us need anybody when that's happening. Yeah, >> but I started to do this reframe to. myself and it was very extreme cuz. that's the only way it caught for me. where I was coming home, my kid was. having then that tantrum about whatever. it is. The blue cup wasn't blue enough. today. I don't know, something like.

that. And I started to say to myself, Becky, >> this is my bang for my buck moment. Literally, this is the moment if I'm driven by. impact that that I want to be home for. because my kid is probably just. releasing the stress of their day or the. blue cup is too blue as a way of saying. there's so many little things in my day, mom, that didn't go the way I wanted and. I haven't released it until now. And if. I can be there in that moment, don't get. me wrong, I'm not going to say it's like.

purely enjoyable. But oh my goodness, is. it impactful. >> and that really really matters down the. road. >> And it motivates you too in the moment. >> It kind of does motivate me. The other. thing that motivates me too is, you. know, I think about this thing that. happened with one of my kids where they. have this these projects in his school. and some of the projects for this week. are really good. They're like amazing. We live in New York. They're like these. amazing opportunities and I'd say three. or four of them are like everyone's like. those are the bad ones like life. So.

there's how good of a project you get. and then also they split up kids into. groups. So kids want to be with their. friends. So there's always factors. How. many of my friends am I with did I get. the good project? First project we came. out. My son got it just was the worst. project with not a soul. He knew it was. like the right. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay, >> so this is the moment I think and my kid. my son obviously he was like really. upset. Again, I don't have kids who are. like this is a learning moment. No, he. was like really upset. Why is this the. case, right? Okay, so the phrase I've.

developed that that I do think is. powerful just cuz it gets me in a. different mindset is sick joy. And I'll. explain what I mean. Okay, I know what. really matters in life going forward. is being able to stay grounded when. things don't go your way. >> Mhm. He might not get into his college. of first choice. He might not get the. job he wants. He might, you know, whatever it is. Go buy a car and he. thinks he's getting a certain car and. they don't have that one in stock. I. mean, not getting the thing you want is. I don't, it happens every day in adult. life. And I think you and I know adults.

who are no more prepared to deal with. those situations well than they were. when they were two. It's just adult. versions of tantrums. >> We can't build skills for experiences we. don't have. We can't buy that skill. We. can't verbalize it. We can't lecture it. You have to feel it. It's just the. unfortunate truth. And I think. especially if you live a life where. there's a decent amount of privilege, which my kids have, like there's a lot. of ease in moments. And so, look, I did. not say to my son, cuz I don't want to. I'm not going to walk myself into a.

bomb. This is a good situ. No, I'm not. going to say that, okay? But in my head, I really mean this. Instead of being. like, my urge is to take that away. I'm. like, you know what? Like, I have a. little sick joy. like this is this is. not going to be fun for the next 3 days. First of all, he needs to borrow my. belief in him. If I can't believe he can. get through this, if I'm like calling. the school right away, you need to. change. >> What I'm really saying to him is, I see. you as a very fragile human.

>> And kids form their identity through us. We are their mirror. We show them who. they are. I'm basically saying, you are. fragile. You can only operate. successfully when things go your way. ish entitlement, all the things we don't. want. And so a part of me is like, this. is so good for him. It's actually funny. There are this is this dynamic you'll. see when you if you have kids where. people call the school a lot and they're. like, I need my kid to be with this. teacher and these three best friends. One, I was telling the story to one of. my friends about, you know, the middle. school project and my friend who knows.

me well goes, did you call the school. and ask him to get the worst project. with no friends? >> And I was like, so good. >> No, I I didn't go that far. >> Sick joy. But that is like but like if. you really totally shift your mindset. because how we respond as you know. >> is mindset. It's our framework. The. events are the same but when your. framework changes everything changes. So. if you're like my kid didn't make the. soccer team. Holy moly. Not enjoyable. painful for both of us. But I can really.

have an impact that probably when he's. 25 he's not going to thank me for. I. know he's going to function better. because this happened and how I showed. up. And I think that's so amazing to. hold on to. >> I love that for two reasons. The first. is that I think we have a warped view of. what care is. >> So we think care means let me call. Let. me figure it out. Let me get you a. better friend group. Let me get you a. better project. So we're thinking that. that's what care looks like. And now my. kid knows I care for them. But actually.

what you're saying in your words is I. don't believe in you. I'm not sure you. can get through this and I can fix. everything. And so instead of them. thinking, oh, mom cares about me, it's. mom or dad or whoever it may be can fix. everything because they don't trust in. me. >> Yes. >> And then the other part why I love that. answer is because you're also not doing. what I think we often do with our family. and friends and because I'm not a. parent, I've not done it with a child, but you're trying to teach the lesson. before living the lesson. >> Right? So, you're trying to teach the.

lesson where it's like, "This is a good. thing." And your kids are like, "No, it's not, Mom. I hate this." And you're. like, "No, it's a really good thing. You'll learn in the long term that this. is the best thing that ever happened to. you." And the kids like, "What are you. talking about?" And so, rather than. like, "Let's just do it for 3 days.". >> That's exactly right. Like, I I'm not a. marathon runner. I'm not in terribly. good shape. But if I was and I was. running a marathon and someone's like, "This is an amazing thing. Are you. loving every I'd be like, "I'm sorry. I'm going to feel really good about. myself the day after the marathon. I I.

don't know that like no one feels great. I don't think climbing Mount Everest. You do it for an experience you bear. down. You know it's going to be really. hard and at some point you look back and. you're like that was good for me. So I. think that and what you said also that. just made me had a new thought. when we. call the school, when we do the puzzle, when we fix the friendship issue, right? Assuming it's not some really intense. abusive bullying, okay, we might end up feeling capable, but we. steal our kids' capability. We steal it.

from them. We I called the school. I. fixed it. My kid is now deprived of an. opportunity to watch themselves do. something they thought they couldn't do. I I I don't I don't think we want to. take that away from our kids. Yeah, my. my wife's talked about that all the. time. She talks about how like when she. was a kid, if she wanted to not go to. the dentist or not go to the doctor, whatever it was, she'd get her or even. as a teenager at this point, she'd get. her older sister to make the call and. she wouldn't want to make the call. And.

so, as she's got older, it's got harder. and harder and harder for make these. calls or to cancel something or whatever. it may have been. And it took her so. long, even probably in through when we first. started dating cuz then she'd ask my. opinion or ask me to do it and I'd be. like, "No, you do it." Right? >> Because I grew up the other way where I. always did everything like paid for my. car insurance, paid for my first car, my. phone bill. So, I was very comfortable. doing those things. And I was like, "No, but I don't want to be seen as a savior. in this situation. I also don't want to. be seen as like I'm I'm the hero of this. scenario because I don't want to make. you dependent on me for, you know, for.

those things." And it was really. interesting for her. And now she'd look. back and she'd be like, "Oh my gosh, like I was just never given the. opportunity.". >> That's right. >> To do really not and I'm not going to. those things feel hard at the time. And. so I don't want to take that away. But. yeah, if you never get given the ability. and the opportunity. later on it's going to make you really. unstable. >> Yeah. And and I'm I'm really big on. helping parents teach these kids because. again I think there's a lot between two. extremes. One extreme is well think.

about it. Okay. Like your kid can't make. their sports practice and they have. access to a computer for an email to. their coach. So easy just write the. email, right? Okay. So, one extreme is. write the email to your coach and your. kid might be like, I can't do it, right? It's not a big deal. Write it and over. here is I'll write it for you. Yeah, I. really believe in a middle ground. Your. kid is nervous, right? But there's a lot. between it's not a big deal. Do it. yourself and I'll do it for you. And I. think that can start with look, I get. it. It's a new thing to write your own. email. Yes. >> Here's what I can do. >> Yes. >> You know, give me a couple minutes. I.

need to finish this worst project. Then. I'm going to give you my full attention. Let's sit at your computer together. >> and let's start writing the email. together. Scaffolding. Yeah. Right. Just. like we. >> kids don't go from not knowing how to. swim to swimming in the ocean. >> Yes. >> There's scaffolding. Okay. Well, how. could you start bring Okay. Dear. Whoa. Okay. I'll teach you. You also you often. start dear. Dear, what's your coach's. name? Coach. Okay. Oh, yeah. Dear. Okay. Yeah. And then you do a comma. Do you. see where the comma is right there? But. I make my kid press it. Great. Then you. press return. What is something you.

could do? You can lead your kid to the. water. How could you tell Coach Mike. something like, "I'm not able to go to. practice today." And your kids going to. say, "I guess I could say I'm not able. to go to practice." That's yes. Yeah. That great, but let them have the win. Help them type it, right? Maybe the next. time you check in on them. Like that's I. think the middle ground. And if we think. again, kids aren't born with the skills. And then you think about yourself as a. coach. >> Good coaches in any sport don't usually.

say this isn't a big deal. >> Yeah. >> But they also don't make the layup for. someone, right? Mhm. No, it's such a. great way of putting it. It's and I and. I like the whole how good insight is. based on this middle ground. >> Yeah. >> Because we all get lost on the edges and. on the corners and the extremes and we. keep oscillating between these two ways. of being rather than realizing, well, it's a bit of this and a bit of that and. probably not all the way on either side. And it's so much more easier to think. about it like that because I think our. brain does this thing where it goes, well, should I be assertive or should I.

be affectionate? And it's like, well, be. assertively affectionate, like, you. know, rather than. >> rather than Yeah. Do I be kind or do I. be like, you know, do I challenge them? And it's like, well, figure out a way to. kindly challenge them, like, which is. what you just did in this email writing, which was like it was a challenge, but. you were kind about it. And all of a. sudden, and it's so real that that's. what we all want. If I think about. anything my parents failed at teaching. me, it was because it was just expected. that I should know how to do it. And. anything they wanted teaching me was.

because they sat down and did it with me. or someone did. And I remember I worked. at a company where I learned how to cold. call when I was like 15 years old. Probably one of the best lessons I've. ever learned in my entire life. But it. only worked because this guy called Joel. sat next to me who was a pro at it. And. he sat next to me for my first like 10. calls and would write out the words for. me and script and coach for me. And then. I did 290 phone calls after that without. him. >> Yeah. And it was just those 10 calls. that made me feel so confident. I didn't. know what cold calling was. And now.

everyone's listening going, "What the. hell is cold calling?" But it was when. you were trying to sell stuff over the. phone to people you didn't know. Uh and. back in the day. >> Back in the day. Yeah. And it was just. that kind of an experience of Yeah. having someone hold my hand and have a. script and kind of could see me stress. out on the phone when someone said. something I didn't expect and kind of. put a word in front of me and it was. like, "Oh, okay. That's how you do it.". >> Yeah. And look, I think this stuff it's. so old in our body, right? Like I think. about an issue I was having with one of. my kids a year or two ago. It's small. issue just like why is this towel on the.

floor? Why is it always on the floor? I. actually am not someone who cares about. my kids having like a very neat room. I. don't know why I look into it in therapy. but like the towel the wet towel on the. floor is just it's a thing my kids know. I care about and there's not that many. things like that. So it's on the floor. and every time how hard is it how hard. is it to take your towel and put it on. the hook, right? Like there's so many. ways. And if we go back and you think. about your equivalent in your childhood. of towel on the floor, right? I think. that's what a lot of us were met with. just like our parents' frustration.

again. They were doing the best they. could with the resources they had, >> right? But the best bosses in the world. if they get a report from someone that's. not good. I can't imagine. They're like, "How did you do it like this?" Like, "Well, I don't know how to do it. differently then." And so I thought. about this and I find a helpful question. with your kid. >> to to start with be like, "Okay, wait. I. have a good kid. Let me remind myself. I. like my kid. >> I have a good kid. >> What is a skill my kid would need to. develop to be better able.

to even pick up the towel on the floor? >> And when I asked myself that question, something crazy happened. Just I had a. thought I'd never had before cuz of the. mindset shift. I said, I wonder if he. notices it. Like when I look in his room. and the towel's on the floor, I don't. notice anything in the room except that. towel. But I know this there's so many. times that me and my husband where he's. like, "Did you not see this?" And I was. like, "Oh, it just wasn't capturing my. attention." So I realized that and then. I realized he probably walks by it, he. goes out, it's not in his mind. So we.

talked I talked to him about this. I. said, "Hey, this has become a thing. I. don't want to keep fighting. What would. you need to do to remember to pick up. your towel?" And the first he's like, "I. don't know." And I was like, "Well, where do you walk like in your room. before you go out?" He's like, "I always. go by my door." Mhm. >> So, >> well, what would you need to do or even. put around your door to remember? And. literally, he goes, "I don't know, like. a post-it note." It it was it was so. simple. I my heart chasing it felt so. deep cuz of the process. >> And I was like, "Oh, like what would the.

post-it note say?" And he's like, "I. don't know, towel.". >> It's like, "Okay." And then this is an. interesting moment. He goes, "Could you. write it for me?" I was like, "No, I'm. not." And kind of again, I'm not going. to do it cuz I I know that's something. you could do for yourself. And I think. it will be more meaningful if you do. And in our family, you know, we take. care of our things. And this is one. small thing I ask. And so, you know. what? We're together. You have Post-it. notes right where you work. It would be. great if that's something you could do. now. Or if you want to do your own. schedule, maybe some point before. tomorrow. And then I do the thing where. I think this really matters. I walk.

away. >> Nobody likes to listen or do something. someone asks when you're like breathing. over their throat. >> Right. So, there's like an element of. trust. And truly the next day I I saw a. note. >> And and and I would say after that it. was like a maybe a 50% hit rate with a. towel. 50 was better than zero. >> I learned so much in this process. I use. it with so many other things for my. kids. Like oh you always forget to take. your water bottle. Okay. Like I can get. frustrated about that or I could help. them build some new skill because again.

what's going to transfer is when my kids. are in college there's going to be. something that happens. Oh, I keep. forgetting to study for my test on time. or I'm late to class. Either they'll. hear my voice saying, "What's wrong with. you? This isn't that hard." Or they'll. hear, "Hold on a second. >> I'm a good person. What's going on? What. would I need to do to be better able to. do this thing I want to accomplish?". That's the process you're really. modeling. That process into adulthood, as we know, that's a winning process. >> Yeah. It's going to pay off big,

>> even if it takes time. >> That's right. And you know what I don't. want when my kids in college? Like I. always say there's certain jobs I always. want. My kids going through a hard time, something tricky, always happy for them. to call me. Like water bottle. rememberer, alarm clock setter. I don't. need my kid in college to be calling me. that they forgot their water bottle or. that they, you know, don't know how to. pick up their towel or that they forgot. to set their alarm clock. So if I'm not. helping them scaffold those skills, >> I shouldn't be surprised. I don't know. when they kind of still lean on me for.

them. >> Yeah. At that later age. Yeah. No, it's. it's such a I wonder whether it's I felt. like my parents felt very comfortable. getting us to do chores early on though. in our life. And so I remember ironing. my shirts for school since I was. probably like 13 maybe. >> And then my my sister and I had a. routine after dinner where we'd either. one of us would wash the dishes or clean. the table and the other would clean the. table and wash the dishes. And I felt. like those were healthy routines that we. just knew that were locked in. We hated. doing them. I never liked doing it.

Ironing I got some pride in. And I'm. still like a very proud we used to iron. not steam and now I've learned how to. steam since moving to this country. But. this idea of I didn't like washing up. the dishes or cleaning the table. It was. just part of our routine. >> Yes. >> What is the value of discipline even. when you hate it and what early chores. are healthy and useful? >> I I I think this is such an important. conversation and and you actually said. something that I often say. You beat me. to the punch. First of all, there is. just immense value to kids spending time.

doing things that are unenjoyable. >> I think especially now, and I'm not. trying to say I'm always above this, but. we've somehow moved to this world where. we're always optimizing for each kid. It's really interesting even like the. weekends are split. Like I'm taking this. kid here, this kid here. We do that. sometimes, too. It's necessary. But. almost unconsciously, we don't realize. I'm like always optimizing for my kids. pleasure. I remember the time that one. of my kids like, "What? I have to go to. my sibling soccer. Like he's not even. good at soccer, which was true. It.

wasn't that good, right? And it was it. was the moment where I was like, that's. actually exactly why you're going to go. Like the weekend is not about optimizing. your personal pleasure at every second. Like, it's good for you to go and be. bored. It's good for you, even if you. could have a playd date, to sit and. watch. That is such an important thing. to be a good human. M and it reminds me. of the time that my kid is like folding. clothes is boring. Why do we have to do. this? And I found myself I I said this.

thing I just like you know what to be a. good human you just have to do things. that are boring and unenjoyable. sometimes. I don't know but I think it's. true. >> It's true. It's true. I don't have a. better way of saying it. Just And my kid. was like, "Oh, I kind of like it." It. struck him like, you know, no one had. ever just said that. That's like So the. fact that you had a childhood where. there was this built-in routine of. things that were mundane. >> Yeah. >> Largely unenjoyable. You can make them.

enjoyable. Put on the music, do things. We try to do that in our house. But. actually, I think that's relieving for a. parent. Oh, I don't have to make my kids. life amazing at every moment. Going back. to entitlement like what an. individualist relatively entitled view. of the world to go forward like I should. spend 99% of my waking hours doing. things that I want to do and bring me. pleasure. Now do I think you should. spend some amount of time? Yes, a lot. But the idea that some of your childhood.

is doing things that are good for the. family that are more about being there. for your sister, right? I think that is. so important. But what it means is. tolerating distress and tolerating push. back and tolerating whining. There's so. much whining. Now, the other reason. though I think chores are really. important. They're a way to feel. impactful. It's one of the biggest. things we take for our kids is when. they're only spending time doing the. things they want to do, they're not. really having an impact in the real.

world. Like clearing your plate and. learning how to wash it off and putting. it in the dishwasher. how concrete that. is and how visual all the plates were. there. Then they got clean. >> then they went to the dishwasher. Then. someone wiped them down. Like you are. watching yourself have purpose and. impact in the world. Your kids will not. say thank you for that when they're. younger. But I promise you that's. critical to their mental health. They.

don't want to live in their own world. where they're just spinning and thinking. and optimizing. They actually do have a. need to feel like they're that's what. it's feel like they're a part of. something. >> And I actually think chores again if. done right so many times chores are. almost given as punishment. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Not it. I think it's a really important. structure for that. >> Yeah. And I love the way you broke down. that process like seeing yourself do. something from start to finish and. complete something and have to do it as. a routine. That is so much of adult life.

>> and it's it's hard. It was one of the. mistakes I made with so I started. working when I was like 14. I used to. deliver newspapers. Then I worked at a. grocery store and so I've been working. for a long time and I have a younger. sister who's four and a half years. younger than me and I never wanted her. to work cuz I just wanted her to be. protected. Yeah. >> In the in my naivity of being a teenager. myself at the time. >> Out of love. >> Out of love. >> But we talk about it all the time now. where like I started working since I was. 14. So work is very normal to me. I get. it. I know what it takes. It's a part of.

my life. I've always had to pay my way. And for my sister, it's like she didn't. start working until she graduated. And. she likes to get away from work as much. as she can because she didn't have that. routine and rhythm from that early age. And there was so much growth at that. time that you made socially by having a. job and being around people of different. backgrounds at different ages. My boss. was 50 and there was a 60-year-old. person at the checkout and a 20-year-old. person and just generational, >> you know, experience and exposure and so.

much I gained from working in a grocery. store that I could never have learned at. home. >> And I think about that word capability. >> I bet you built a ton. >> Absolutely. >> I'm I'm a person who can do hard things. I'm a person who can go into a situation. that's totally new. >> Yeah. nuanced, has ups and downs, and no. matter what I finish the day, just the. best it often is is I knowing I can get. through it. >> That's so important. It's the other. thing that it's kind of different than. chores, but having our kids do real. things in the real world,

>> right? I think it's something that we. need to put a lot more attention to, right? I I know John height talks about. this a lot, right? We kind of. overprotect kids online and or we. underprotect kids online and overprotect. them in the real world. and he and I. talk about this a lot. I think I've. watched my kids, right? We live in. Manhattan, right? And so mobility for. kids is maybe a little easier. They. don't need a ride somewhere. But when I. see, you know, my kid who can go get. bagels for the family on their own, right? Take public transportation on.

their own, the pride and capability they. feel. I I promise you, I mean, I think. academics and school and all those. things in sports are really important, don't get me wrong. I I just I don't I. literally don't see this like visceral. feeling in any other place than when. they're in the real world feeling like a. capable person who's operating like. everyone else. And so I think that and. everyone can ease into that in their own. way, right? It might be you go to the. doctor with your kid and you let them. check in. It might be you let them tell.

their pediatrician, hey, how's she doing. this year? Let her answer first. Right? It's emailing the coach instead of you. doing it. It's maybe you don't live in a. city where a kid can walk to the grocery. store, but maybe you hang back and let. them check out. I mean, there's so many. situations, but that communication of. trust and capability, if you reflect. that to your kid and then they start to. experiment with that, it's so critical. >> Yeah. I think a lot of pressure that. parents are feeling right now about that. overp protection is also feeling that.

they have to be available and monitoring. and be around and entertain all the. time. And it goes back to your this. point that you've spoken about the whole. time. This dichotomy of we didn't get a. lot of time from our parents growing up. for a lot of people. Parents weren't. around because they had to pay the bills. and take care of stuff. And now it's the. opposite where parents feel like, well, I have to work from home. I have to be. completely flexible. I have to be there. all the time. And I feel like that's a. lot of pressure for two reasons. One is.

you now feel like every waking moment. has to be spent entertaining a kid, which is exhausting. But we all feel the. pressure society and culturally of if. you don't your kids can have trauma. And. then the other side of it is we talk. about what it means to be a good parent. because it makes us feel good about. ourselves. but not about what kids actually need. >> So if I think about the difference. between what makes me feel like a good. husband versus what does my wife.

actually need? Like what makes me feel. like a good husband is a a long list of. things that my wife would pick apart and. be like, "Yeah, but I don't need any of. that stuff." And and I feel like kids. might do the same. >> I think that's really smart. I haven't. thought about it that way, but yeah, I. think we should dive into that. I mean, I think we have an idea. What makes me. feel good is if yes, I'm always. available. I'm always watching. I'm. always make sure they don't slip off the. ladder of the playground, right? What.

does my kid feel? Nobody trusts me. I. don't have any space. I don't even know. anymore what's me and what's my parent. Like, it's like we live in this inshed. world. Now, I don't think a kid could. ever articulate, right? Again, we're not. going to hear from our 8-year-old. I'd. love a little more space. It's just not. going to happen, right? >> Yeah. Until they're teenagers. >> But they might they might say it in. other ways, right? And I really don't. think it's just me. I think Good Inside. really is this movement. It's ignited. something in people. I think there's. like a lot of us who are like I yeah.

this whole always being there always. fixing right um always witnessing. this kind of way we've confused. emotional safety with emotional comfort. those are very different things um I. think there's I think there's like a new. wave right I mean I think one of the. reasons why we're so resentful we're so. reactive we can be so rageful on our. phones all the time around our kids is. because We rarely have time without our.

kids, right? And and it's actually. important for everyone. And again, people hear that and they go to these. awful extreme places. So, you're just. going to slam your door and tell your. kids you can't hang out with them. No, nobody said that. I'm definitely not. saying that. That would not be a good. way to operationalize this concept. But. helping your kids learn how to play. independently. If you live in a. neighborhood with other kids, helping. them figure out that they can play on. that neighbor's lawn and you don't have. to be there. Maybe you're nervous, but. maybe you we have to fake it till you. make it. You're like, "Yeah, I totally. trust you." And then you turn, you're.

like texting your friend like, "Oh my. goodness, help me through this." Okay, I. have one window up top that actually is. black and from the outside, so they. can't see I'm watching them. But then. maybe after a week, you're not doing. that, right? Or for me too, letting our. kids go to the grocery store without. them, it is a leap of faith. And we all. have different levels of anxiety to. manage. But I think that's right. Kids. need space. Of course, kids need. attention. They like to be witnessed. But I mean, imagine your wife. >> following you around at every moment.

beyond probably on some level feeling. annoying. There's a message like I. actually don't trust you. >> And I also don't trust our relationship. enough to feel like we could have that. be strong if you are also your own. person. And I think Yeah, I think we. really need to redefine parenthood along. those lines. >> Yeah. No, I'm glad. Yeah. No, I was just. thinking about I was just like when you. think about any other space, it's almost. like if I from any job, if I serve.

burgers at McDonald's, my worth is not. calculated by if I feel good doing that. It's calculated by what the customer. needs and wants. So if the customer. orders a cheeseburger and I serve them a. Coke and fries because that makes me. feel better. That's not accurate. It's. about And so I'm not saying we have to. do what our kids want. >> Totally. It's probably a bad example. actually. I take that back. But but. there's a sense of like am I aware of. what children actually need? >> Need I think. >> what do children actually need is a. that's a bad metaphor but yeah it's it's.

like what do children actually need. versus what makes me feel good in the. moment. >> I think that's right. And look there's. this dance the dance between. independence and dependence. It it's. constant right? Independence grows from. the safety of dependence. It's true for. us too. I'm sure in part you feel like. you can try all these new things and you. know be honest and vulnerable in part. maybe because you feel like at the end. of the day I have my wife I can come.

home to like I have a secure base which. means I can go explore. >> that's really important so yes the time. we spend with our kids the way we. connect with them. >> but the truth is. >> after those stages of intense kind of. connection or dependence the way kids. actually grow is from the safety of. dependence. They do things that are new. >> It's when so many parents say like, "I. feel so guilty. I'm going on a trip away. from my kid and my kid's upset, right?". And I often ask, "Well, who are they.

staying with?" I don't know. They're. staying with grandma. It's someone who. they're like or they're staying with. their partner. It's someone who they're. perfectly safe with. And like, is this. is this so bad for them? And I always. say the same thing. I mean it. >> Not not only do I think it's good for. them, I think your kid is going to. consolidate all of the skills you've. been working on them with. >> Right. It's kind of like if you're a. basketball player and you have a coach. and they're watching and they're. watching and they're working on this. thing. You need time in the gym without. that coach to then kind of go do the. thing and then you know what? You're. going to get back with a coach and work.

on the next thing. But I just want. parents to hear that. Yes, be there. that connection, that validation, and. then the periods where either you're. traveling or you're not there. That is. actually probably the time your kid can. bring it all together and not only. consolidate skills, that's when you know. it's yours. If I'm only, >> I don't know, able to do a good. presentation when my boss is in the. room. A part of me always wonders like, is it my. >> Yeah. Wow, that's great point. >> Right. My boss is sick and I go to my.

boss, I crushed it. I feel like it's me. now. I'm like, that was me. So, yeah, we. really want to give our kids that. opportunity. >> That's such a great point. I love that. I was. >> better than a McDonald's. >> Definitely better than my. >> We were trying to get there together. >> I was trying to get there. I was like, no, that's not working. Backtrack before. you. >> It's the thing with metaphors. You never. know. I'm like, actually, it's not. >> Yeah. I was like, I've never said that. before, so let's backtrack. Uh, but no, there's that resonated strongly. I was. my tour manager is from London. He was.

traveling with me. We just finished a. North American Canada tour. We did like. 15 cities and he he's toured with me. twice. We did a world tour two years. ago. So he comes from London. He has two. little boys. And he was saying that the. last time he left he was he only had. one. But he was telling his kid that he. was like, "Oh, I'm really sorry I have. to go away." And this time he said he. was changing it where he's like, "I'm. really excited to go away. I'm going to. miss you. Uh but I'm really excited. I'm. doing this show and we're going live and. we're doing this thing." and and he was. saying how he wanted his kid to a feel.

excited for him rather than feel like oh. dad hates going to work and he's sorry. and he's feeling bad about it and at the. same time like feeling like his kid had. space to grow and and feel that. confidence and yes of course his kid. facetimed every day I missed him and. whatever it was but there was that sense. that he was like no I want him to feel. positive about the fact that I'm going. away I don't want him to feel like I'm. nervous that I'm going away and I'm. going to be away from him and now he's. taking on that anxiety as well that. dad's scared that he's leaving me behind. without him with mom who obviously, you.

know, like. >> right is there too. >> He's the main carer and loves me and you. know is always around there for me. And. so it's he was like, "No, I want him to. leave feeling good.". >> And I think really sturdy leaders do. that. Like my language for that is two. things are true. >> So going back to boundaries and. validation, two things are true. I can. set a boundary. You can be upset. Two. things are true. I'm excited about going. on tour with Jay and I'm going to miss. you. Or two things are true. I'm excited. for this next step and I get that you.

wish I was staying home. Like I actually. think that phrase two things are true, it trains our mind to then say the. things and then the thing that's a small. shift but makes a huge difference. >> is kind of upgrading the butt to an and. >> I'm excited but I'm going to miss you. >> I'm excited and I'm going to miss you. Right? Like and look, I think in the. world we see this like collapse of our. ability to hold two things as true. It's. in in every small and big way, which. again is why I think I think about good. inside is is really so important. I.

think the one of the most powerful ways. we can change the world is how we raise. the next generation of kids who will. become adults. And to me, that idea of. holding oppositional truths at once, and. maybe this relates to what people say as. mom guilt, two things are true. I'm. going to dinner with my friends tonight. So, person X, your dad, my mom, whoever. it is, is going to put you to bed. Two. things are true. I'm excited to see my. friends. And I understand you're going. to be upset. Like, I don't have to fix. the upset. I don't have to change my.

plans. I don't need to get my. 5-year-old, but don't you understand? It's really good for me to go out with. my friends. I'm a better mom. What's. happening there? No, they can just both. be true. when when we become better able. to like verbalize that, we actually. teach our kids to be able to tolerate. those two things at once as well. >> I'm so glad you raised that. It's it's. probably the thing I've been focused on. the most right now because I love that. what F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote, which. was the test of a first rate. intelligence is the ability to hold two.

opposing ideas at the same time. >> Y. >> and not and retain the ability to. function. >> That's y. >> and and it's just so well said. And then. he goes on to say that one should. therefore be able to see that things are. hard but that I have the possibility to. change them. >> Right. And yeah, sorry. Sorry. And yeah, >> that that's exactly it. >> So real and I'm so glad that you've. taken it from parenting into parenting. >> Yes. >> Because that is the ability that none of. us have today in in any capacity.

>> And I think this is the stuff it drives. us parents crazy. So just to model how. you can go from these singular truths to. these this duality. Like I love the heck. out of my kids. >> and many days I miss so many of the. moments before I had kids. I am so. grateful for my kids and I feel. exhausted. And I think what's important. is one doesn't have to be more true than. the other. >> They can just both be there. They're. like two boxes sitting on a shelf. And.

it's it's powerful to start to watch. your mind try to collapse them, right? Oh, good parents don't feel that way. Wait, this might just be a two things. are true situation. Maybe I'm allowed to. love being a mother and miss my life. before I'm a mother. And maybe there's. no resolution. Maybe I just going back. to the bench. Maybe I just have to like. sit with that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I I'm thinking back. to all the times I did that to my. parents cuz we forget. >> Yeah. >> Like we forget that we did the same. things. Like I find it really funny when.

I was speaking to a friend or someone. and they're like, "Yeah, you know, my. teenagers just doesn't get me right. now." I'm like, "Did you get your. parents when you were a teenager?" Like. I'm like I was the worst. And you know. and and I think about even being a kid. and I remember my mom had to go out to. work in the evening so she couldn't put. me to bed a lot of the time. >> And I remember crying until she left. like I'd hold on to her foot until she. walked to the door and she'd walk out to. go to work and then dad would put me to. bed and and and I still remember it. And. it's just. >> it's so interesting that we forget that. we did all of those things because it.

feels like such a long time ago. But the. reality is that children haven't changed. that much. >> Yeah. >> They just have different ways. They. might have an iPad instead of a. >> PlayStation versus the TV or whatever it. may have been. And it it's just when you. remember that, you can actually. empathize with it better and realize. your parents also had to do things that. wasn't the reason you end up feeling. neglected. Like that wasn't it. Like I I. don't think I I don't look back at that. memory with my mom and go I felt.

neglected when she left for work because. >> she explained it to me. I knew where she. was going. I knew I was with dad. Like. it was it's and of course there are. people who have very opposite. experiences where they there could have. been neglect and trauma. And I think. that's that's what I wanted to ask you. about is if someone's listening going, look, I love my parents. They weren't. perfect, but I I love them and or maybe. they actually caused me a lot of pain, but you know, it is what it is. How do I. not be like them? >> Yeah. >> Uh because that's what I'm most scared. of because yeah, I am probably carrying.

some trauma and maybe I feel positively. to them, but maybe there's one of them. that I never want to talk to again. And. I but I'm scared of becoming them. >> And I totally understand that fear. And. and what I'd say to that person. first is like I hope you give yourself a. lot of credit for even just naming that. and letting yourself see that there are. things in my parents I love and I. appreciate and there are things I want. to do really differently. I'm so scared. of repeating that pattern. That that I. would just say that's kind of amazing.

and brave to even just name that. That's. step one. Step two, I would actually. just want to learn more. Tell me more. What what don't you want to be like? Well, I would have never talked to my. parent when I was in a tricky situation. I felt like my parents were just. controlling, judgmental, like I don't. want to get more specific, right? Okay. So, what I think is helpful to know. again is. parenting is like a language, right? And. if you were brought up in English, right, and you want to speak a little. English, but also Mandarin, your first instinct with your kid, even.

as you're learning Mandarin, is going to. be English. It just especially in. stressful moments. and and that's okay. That doesn't mean you're failing. It. just means probably you got to go back. to those Mandarin lessons and you go. repair and you keep going. So, I just. also want people to know that's that's. what change looks like. No one goes and. does a complete 180. >> But people underestimate if you think. about your family lineage like a ship. and it's going toward a certain. destination. You're like, I don't want. to go there. Even a small shift in the. ocean leads to a dramatically different.

destination. Right? And that's what. cycle breaking is. And then I think we. work on one thing at a time. Okay, let's. say it's I really want my kid to be the. kind of kid who can come to me. Stakes. are even higher now. There's stuff on. TikTok. It's sex, drugs. I want my kid. to come to me. I would have never with. my parent still haunts me. Things that. happened because I didn't or they yelled. at me. Great. I'd be like, "Okay, how. old is your kid now?" Five. Okay, let's. start building that because I think. that's a topic that comes up a lot. The.

idea that whether or not our teen comes. to us in tricky moments is something. that like magically starts in the. teenage years as if there's no history. to it, >> right? So, let's think about how you. respond when your kid hits. Let's think. about what happens. You just got a email. from school that your kid stole a truck. from his friend's cubby. These things. seem very small compared to sex and. drugs and rock and roll, but in a way, they're the same circuit. M. >> I did something I know you're not going.

to approve of. Frankly, I did something. even I feel shameful about. >> Mhm. >> How do we deal with that in this family. now? What do I think that parents first. instinct is going to be? >> What do you think? >> Yeah. Like, oh my god, I can't believe. you stole the truck. What's wrong with. you? Like, >> exact. What's wrong with you? Go to your. room. By the way, when you go to your. room, I took away all your trucks. Like, I don't know. By the way, I guess it's. just what we we like just come up with. this stuff because it's been so many. generations. Even though it's laughable, like why would that help my kid, but we.

all have that instinct. I do, too. But. if you know you're going to have that. instinct, you're more prepared. And you. might, and this is where I would tell. parents, like if you thought of it like. a new language, you would never expect. yourself to learn Mandarin. >> just because you wanted to learn. Mandrin. >> You you like, frankly, I don't know, you'd probably just download Dualingo. I. don't know. and you be like, I'm going. to practice as many days as I can. If I. miss my streak, it's okay. I'm going to. get back on. And that that's what I feel. like good insight is. It is a new. language. So, what does that mean? First, you have to learn how to regulate.

your own emotions. You're probably. telling yourself the story, my kid's. stealing trucks at age four. They're. going to be in jail by age 19. I have a. sociopath. That is what you do as a. parent. The number of times you start. thinking your kid's a sociopath when. really they're just a good kid having a. hard time is way too many to count. But. let's do that. So, what do I say to. myself? What is the mantra? Where do I. go? Do I have a support group? Do I have. a friend to text? Do I have a little. chatbot that helps me these day and age, right? That's what we have, right? Too. Okay, there's that. Then I'm going to. remember we're on the same team. Then. I'm going to remember a little of that. sick joy, which is true there, too. Hold.

on a second. If I know my kid sees. things that they want and doesn't yet. have the impulse control to not take. them, if I can help my kid with that at. age four, do you know how much better. that is than learning at age. >> absolutely. >> 14 or 44? Like then then things get bad. >> We all have an urge to take things that. we want, >> right? So you can actually Okay, this is. a good thing. Same team and then there's. maybe I'm going to get curious. Yeah, that would have been nice if my parents.

were curious. Okay, then and this is. just a rule I have for any relationship. Don't ask anybody a question you know. the answer to. >> It's not a question. It's an accusation. with a question mark. Did you take. anything. >> from the cubby today? You're just. setting yourself up to be an adversary. Say the truth. I heard what happened. This is a good line, right? You're a. good kid. You made a bad decision. That's okay. You're not in trouble. My. job is to help understand and help you.

through it. This actually happened with. my kid, okay? One of my kids, you know, he saw something he wanted. And you know. what? A lot of us when we see things we. want, we wish it was ours. And and so we. talked about it, we did this, and then. we did a lot of other things. I really. do take coaching, I think, to the next. level. Like if you're and I always go. back to sports cuz I'm a sports person. too. But if you are a basketball coach, you can sit down some kids and teach. them how to make a layup, but we all. know you then actually have to get in. the gym and like do it. You can't just.

mentally learn it. The body movements. matter. So one of the things I did with. my son in this example is I was like. after not all in the same day, we're. going to play a game. I'm gonna have a. truck and I'm going to put it somewhere. and I'm going to walk away and I want. you to see it. And let's practice this. You're going to say to yourself, I. really want that. And then we're going. to practice the thing we just talked. about. This stinks, but it's not mine. Some. like mini mantra. Literally a tool. And.

I'm going to actually practice that. And. then I'll Some kids are resistant, so. I'll reverse it. Okay, I'll be you. Okay. Oh, I want that truck. Maybe if I. take it, nobody will notice. Then it'll. be mine and then it'll just be my little. truck and it's all going to be okay. Wait, Becky, I want it. This stinks, but I can deal. with it. It's actually amazing when you. give kids little mantras, little. alternative behaviors. And I know it. sounds I hear a pound's voice. I do. being like that takes a lot of time.

>> Yeah, >> I hear that. But in life, I think we. either spend time preparing or reacting. >> Oh, yeah. And however you spend time. naturally, you just don't account for it. as time. You know how much time it takes. to be mad at your kid all day? How much. time it takes when you stay up at bed. feeling so kind of ashamed of how the. day went. How much time those things. take time, too. I promise you these. little interventions can take 45. seconds. Again, my son, we're not having. some in-depth conversation. It's just a. thing and we move on. >> And then they ask you, "Can I have a. snack?" Like,

>> and then they literally always end with, "Can I have pretzels now?" And you're. like, "I guess they're saturated." But. regulate your own emotions. Remember, you're on the same team. It's good news. when you see bad behavior when they're. young because they're always younger. than they are tomorrow. And if you see. it again as a feeling and urge gap with. the skills, the answer becomes I can be. a coach, teach skills, practice skills. here and there. And then often what's. amazing is not only does behavior. change, it doesn't change from fear. Cuz. when behavior changes from fear, I'm.

just so scared of my parent. That then. leads to becoming a teen. You know, when you're a teen, you don't. care about the timeouts. You don't care. about your kids. You don't care about. your parents stickers. You're just not. really having a relationship with them. and you're hiding things from them. >> Yeah. Well said. Uh Becky, you were very. clear that there's no such thing as a. perfect parent, but you are a perfect. coach. And your advice and insight is. this has been by far my favorite. conversation on parenting. And I've had.

such a great time learning from you. today. I've feel like I've had. mind-blowing moments. I've had. affirmations on things that I already. believed were true. I've had. clarifications. I've had extensions of. things that I thought I understood, but. you've expanded my mind. And I think. everyone at home who's listening and. watching or on the road would feel the. same way. And so I hope everyone who's. listening or watching, I hope you go and. check out the app Good Insight. Check. out the platform. Go and grab a copy of. the book. Follow Becky online if you. don't already. Her Instagram and social.

media is full of great insights that are. really simply and succinctly put for you. to start making real change. And at the. same time, I really hope that you'll tag. both of us and share the insights and. the thoughts that have resonated with. you today that you're putting into. action that you're trying out. And. whether you got the reaction you wanted. or not, the win that you had of actually. communicating effectively, of following. some of these scripts and making them. your own and putting them into your own. language and words with your kids, uh, I. really hope this helps you build the.

child and the life and the relationship. that you're looking for with them. And. Becky, I'm just so grateful to you for. having your time and energy to do this. with me. Thank you. And I had such a. great time. Truly, >> I had such a great time, too. I hope you. know, it's not too long till I see you. again. >> Yeah, you have to come back. I have so. much more I need to talk to you about. We just spoke for 2 hours, was it? >> And I and I could literally talk to you. for another 2 hours, but I've been. mindful of time, but I would love for. you to come back uh because I feel like. there's so much more for us to uncover. >> I am all in. >> I'm so grateful. Thank you so much. If. you love this episode, you'll love my.

interview with Dr. Gabbor Mate on. understanding your trauma and how to. heal emotional wounds to start moving on. from the past. Everything in nature. grows only where it's vulnerable. So a a. tree doesn't grow where it's hard and. thick, does it? It goes where it's soft. and green and vulnerable.