Bollywood Icon Karan Johar Reveals His Deepest Insecurities: “I Wasn’t Like the Other Boys”

I was told I was different. I walked. differently. I ran differently. I spoke. differently. I was told I wasn't able to. be an achieving man. >> Karant Johar is an Indian filmmaker, producer and television personality. >> He's launched the careers of several. successful actors and filmmakers under. his company Dharma Productions. When Karanor was a young man, what did. he dream to be? I wanted to belong. I. wanted to be part of the football team. I wanted to play cricket with the boys. But nobody chose me because I wasn't.

good enough. Not man enough. >> How has your feeling around the word man. and masculinity changed from those early. days of being told you were not man. enough? >> Today I walk this way and they're like. walk like a man. I'm like no. I'm. walking like myself and I love myself. I've never ever pretended to be somebody. I wasn't. >> This moment that you have where you. start to feel some confidence or I want. to be a public figure. How do you pursue. that? Charuk took me aside and said, "I. want you to direct a film and I'll do. it." Then he called my dad and he was.

like, "Look, we should make a movie. together and your son will direct a. film. I'm telling you, he'll make a. really good filmmaker.". >> There was a destiny that was calling you. that way. What was the hardest moment up. until then? >> The toughest moment at that time was. just me watching my father fail. The number one health and wellness. podcast, J Shetty. >> J Shetty, the one, the only J Shetty. Karan Joho, welcome to OnPurpose India. Our first ever recording in India is.

with someone that had such a big impact. on my life even since before I met you. through your work, your films, your. storytelling. And I'm so grateful to. call you a friend. So grateful that. you've taken time out today. And I've. loved every minute we've spent offline. and I'm so glad we get to record online. today. So thank you so much for doing. this. >> Thank you, Jay. Thank you for inviting. me. This is truly wonderful. >> Yeah. So, so happy to have you here. And. I remember the first time we connected, I think I got a DM message from you.

>> Yeah. >> Where you'd just ordered my book, Think. Like a Monk. >> Yes. >> And I was so grateful and surprised and. shocked because, as I said, I'd been. watching your films ever since I was a. young boy. >> And I thought, wow, I can't believe that. Karen Jorah is buying my book. It was. really one of those like star struck. moments. And I wanted to start off by. asking you when Karanjor was a young. man, even younger than a young man, a. little boy, what did he dream to be? Who. did he want to be? >> When I go back to my my childhood, what.

did I dream of being or what did I want. to be? The first thing I wanted to is. just be. I wanted to belong. That's the. first thing I want to do. I just felt. very different from all the other boys. my age, all the other kids my age. I. think I was just in those days back in. the 80s I didn't know how to describe my. headsp space because I didn't understand. what I was. I felt I was different. I. felt I was different from the others and. I wasn't able to kind of articulate it. to myself and those were not days that. you know we could get any kind of. counseling any kind of you know visit to.

somebody who could guide you help you. nurture you in that way. Uh even your. parents were giving you all the love. like I was the only child so I got a lot. of love but I knew I was very different. I was told I was you know more. effeminite that I should be. I walked. differently. I ran differently. I spoke. differently. My choices in life, my. hobbies in life were different. I like. to like watch like a lot of Hindi movies. and consume that. A lot of kids in my my. neighborhood. I we grew up in a in an. elite neighborhood called Malaba. And. like nobody really watched Hindi cinema.

at that time, Indian cinema. I was. watching like all those movies and. dancing to those songs in my room. And. boys and girls my age were like. listening to their parents' favorites. like Abba or they were getting to like. Wham, George Michael Madonna. It was a. breakthrough of like you know western. pop artists and you know I was not. really getting into I was listening to. Lat Mangeshkar and Keshwar Kumar and. Asha Bosley and Mohamad Rafi and. everything about me was different. So. whenever I went down you know we lived. in like apartment blocks and when you. went down it was the thing that all the.

kids the apartment block would come down. and play in the evenings and I wanted to. belong. I wanted to be part of the. football team. I wanted to play cricket. with the boys. But nobody chose me. because I wasn't good enough. You know, I wasn't sporty enough. I was not boy. enough or man enough. So when you ask me. what I wanted to be, the first thing at. that age is I wanted to belong. My. dreams Jay came much later. >> You know, they came much much later. The. very first part of my formative years, my teenage years was just to belong. And. no one told me then that you don't have.

to. You can be your own person. that. guidance, that nurturing, that. philosophy of life wasn't given to me at. that point of time. Like my own kids, for example, I I visit my school. counselors and they're really helping. me, you know, because we are a modern. family. I'm a single parent. I have to. guide them, make them understand our. situation is very different from the. other families. But I have that guidance. at that point of time in life. I didn't. have. So my dreams came much later. And. I I remember the particular moment when.

my mother sat me down and I was 12. because I was going through a really. rough time. I wanted to change schools. I wanted to because I I felt I was being. ragged in and around. And I still went. back to the same school. I didn't change. school. And she told me, she says, "Look, I want you to be an achiever no. matter what you do. I want you to be. good at something. Just hold on to what. you think you're good at because I feel. like you're not really really nurturing, you know, what you're good at." And I. was good at like elecution and debate. and drama and uh that's the first time I. I took my mom's advice and I walked into.

the interact club and I got very first. year you know I started representing my. school at debates and executions and. there the confidence started building so. it was something that happened. organically you know I think my chat. with my mother was very defining and I. don't think she realizes how defining. that chat was to me it made such a big. impact and then there was that moment. Jay when I was on stage and it was my. last year at school we had those is we. had houses right you were red house. yellow house blue or green I was red. house and I was so popular because of my. I was very good at English and Hindi and.

debate and drama eleution and I gave my. last speech so to say you know and. everybody knew I was up for the gold. medal and you know and at that point of. time I looked at like the 200 students. staring at me and I was like I think I'm. going to be famous I just had that. thought in my head uh it's not something. that I can explain why I had it I just. felt it so at that point of time I was. like okay I think I want to be a public. figure I don't know thought capacity. I. didn't know I was going to land up. making movies. I just felt the aura and. energy of that room. And and it for me. it was a big deal because I never. thought I would ever ever be anyone.

because I was told I was different and I. wasn't able to be an achieving man. I. was told that several times like look do. I I was even told at times like are your. parents proud of you because look at how. you are like there were things like that. said to you and you have to find your. own journey your own path in life and at. that point of time as I said that I. didn't have the help I had to do it on. my own. >> thank you so much for sharing that. because I think a lot of people. listening right now they they know the. current joy of today but many may not.

know that time and I think you spoke. about this really important difference. between fitting in and belonging Yeah. >> And I think a lot of us when we're. young, we think we have to fit in. >> Yeah. >> And then when you grow older, you. realize you just have to be and belong. and first belong to yourself. But like. you said that as a kid, you don't have. the skills, you don't have the tools, you don't have the language, you don't. have the vocabulary. When you're going through that before. you have this defining conversation with. your mother, what would you turn to? Did.

you find yourself did you process. through crying? Did you process through. talking to someone else? How would you. even deal with those emotions? I I lived. vicariously through cinema, through. Hindi movies, through vintage Raj. Kapoor, through Yash Chopra, through. Gurudat. I was maybe an old soul because. I was so attracted to the most soulful. cinema of that time. It was all Hindi. cinema at that time. So I was watching. Pafa and Kagur. I was watching Bimalroy. I was watching like literally Gurudat. and enjoying like that level of cinema.

at a very young age. And I feel like. cinema was my like release, my in some. way my safe space. I felt every time I. watched movies, it made me go into that. world and I was so absorbed by that. world that I didn't need to look inward. cuz I was already in another world. >> Um, and it really gave me wings to fly. I never resorted to self-pity or crying. or sulking or weeping and feeling. terrible for myself. I didn't do any of. that. I just was so absorbed with cinema. and cinema music. I remember there was a.

film called Sumam that released when I. was 8 years old. Um there was a song. Duffly Val and I was obsessed with that. song. It had a veteran actors in it. Rishi Kapoor and Jay Praha and it was. directed by a veteran caves panat and I. had seen that movie and I'd gone crazy. and I went to see that film multiple. times. Um and nobody in the neighborhood. came with me. So I would take like our. house help with us to go and you know. see the movie because even my parents. said like we can't keep watching the. same film because I would watch that. film and then I would come back and I.

would play those songs on my audio. cassette you know we used to have like. cassettes in those days you know and I. would dance I would dance on my own and. somehow my parents thought that was. absolutely okay like my dad would. encourage me to dance not realizing that. actually I'm doing something unusual for. a boy dancing to all the female steps. you know I was doing something unusual, but he would encourage me and he didn't. realize then, but he was a liberal. father. He was a progressive father. He. never said like, "Walk like a man, speak. like a man." He never said any of that.

to me. He loved me like unabashedly. And. like he thought I was great even when I. was like large and beyond plus-size. He. said, "You have some puppy fat. You lose. it and you're like the most handsome boy. in the world." Like he made me feel so. special. As I said, going back to your. question that I resorted to Hindi cinema. for for my to self-protect. >> I can vouch for your love for classical. music and movies because when I came to. your home, you bought my wife and I the. caravan uh music thing that my mom has.

now stolen because she it's Yeah, she. loves it. I'm happy. She absolutely. loves I have one in the car right now. Like I listen to it every day. It's my. soothing like Hindi cinema music of that. of the Y is like really my like go-to at. any point of any juncture in my life. >> No, it's incredible. Now, this moment. that you have where you start to feel. some confidence or I want to be a public. figure or there's this seed that's. planted how do you pursue that? How do.

you not get scared by it? I think a lot. of people when they have this inner. calling, they hear it in a voice. They. can think, "Oh, but no, I can't do that. It's not for me. You know, I've been. laughed at. Maybe I got lucky but you. pursued it. What was the first initial. step that you took towards that inner. calling in and voice? >> I actually didn't do anything. It just. life just unfolded when I went into. college. I actually went to a public. speaking academy because I wanted to. kind of nurture that part because I knew. I was good at that. I wanted to get. better at it. And it was the head of.

that public speaking academy. He. actually told me that I I wouldn't. encourage it today but that time it made. sense to me. today in in the world of. awareness. I think he was actually. inappropriate because he said that your. voice sounds very girlish and you should. bring baritone in your voice and let me. help you like get that baritone because. the world will be tough on you. And I. think he meant really well. So he gave. me these voice exercises and I felt like. my entire voice texture changed because. I I feel like three years I went to him. every single day.

>> to learn with him and his wife taught me. like how to get baritone in my voice to. sound more like a man and I used to tell. my parents I'm going to computer class. you know because I didn't know how else. to pay for that course cuz I had to pay. cuz they had to give me the money but I. couldn't tell them I'm going actually to. sound like a man and 3 years later the. computer arrived in my dad's office and. he was like you've learned it for 3. years, you know what to do. And I hadn't. done a single day of computer lesson in. my entire life. So I had no idea what to.

do with that computer. So he was like, one minute, but you've gone to computer. class for 3 years. What have they been. teaching you? And I was like, uh, I had. no explanation cuz I was staring that. computer like it was an alien. I had no. idea what to do with it, but I did get. some baritone in my voice. Subsequently. I I did about a theater and uh I did. some fashion choreography. I did a lot. of I dabbled in a lot of creative. aspects and that's when at one juncture. I got best friends with Yash Chopropra. veteran filmmaker legendary filmmaker.

his son Adita and he and I got really. close and we knew each other as kids but. he said why don't you assist me on this. first film of mine called Dilvali and I. was like no I want to go to France cuz I. used to speak French fluently and I. wanted to go and like study it further. my dad was like saying that we have a. tiny export business if you learn French. it'll help the business. We made movie. my father made movies but very. unsuccessful ones. So we used to have a. small export import business of garments. and handiccrafts and he said our main.

client is in France. So if you learn the. language so I had learned the language. so I wanted to pursue it and go to. Paris. Adi as in Chopra turned around. and said why are you running away from. your calling? You are meant to be on a. film set. He says you have everything. that that a Hindi Hindi films or other. cinema require. You're overdramatic. You're melodramatic. You can be funny. you love song and dance like you're made. for the movies like why are you running. away from it? I was like who's going to. watch anything I'm going to do or make? He was like just get onto that set. So I.

asked my dad and he gave me permission. and he didn't want me to do this. He was. very against because he had faced a lot. of failure in the business. My mom was. very worried. She just wanted me to get. a salaried job. She was like I need you. to have a salary. I need for you to g. get like a remuneration every month. because your dad has lost a lot of money. and I'm very afraid for your future. I was like look I really want to do. this. Give me a year of my life. If I. manage to kind of make any impression in. the movie business then maybe this is.

going to happen. That's where I met Shah. Ruk and that's where I knew Kajill from. before but I got to know her better and. one year on that film set that film went. on to be a massive blockbuster a. legendary film even today defining love. story and I was on that set Adi allowed. me access to every meeting every. discussion everything it's because he's. my mentor my guide my philosopher. everything and Shah Ruk took it further. he actually took me aside and said I.

want you to direct a film and I'll do it. and And I thought he was just being kind. and polite and I'm like why is he Shah. Ru Khan why is he asking me like what do. I you know then he called my dad and he. was like look we should make a movie. together and your son will direct a film. I'm telling you he'll make a really good. filmmaker so I mean I'm here because of. Adi and Shahuk they are the two pillars. that actually moved my destiny path so. when you ask me like what was that I. didn't do anything things just happened. and I'm I feel like Beyonce like. destiny's child like I really believe. the destiny was carved out and I just.

walked the path and I made my first. film. That's where I saw the ark lights. I saw the red carpets roll out and it. was an instant blockbuster. And I. suddenly felt like all the tough times. in my childhood, my growing years where. I was felt like I didn't belong, suddenly I felt my work belonged. >> And because my work belonged, my. identity became my work. >> Um, and it seemed like some kind of. divine intervention and so much. validation all at the same time. like.

everything that I ever see and wanted. and desired and it was almost a dream. you know it felt like a dream in 1998. when my film released I felt like is. this really happening to me to us as a. family it's not what I ever envaged for. myself it's not something that I ever. expected it's not something my parents. expected it was like someone really. answered a prayer you know but life is. push and pull right because you give you. get and so some things that happened. subsequently also I was also grabbed of. something but at that moment it felt.

like this is the best thing to happen to. anyone. >> Yeah. And that is an iconic legendary. movie that so I saw that when I was 11. years old in 98 me while I while I sit. right in front of you but I will allow. you that. >> I was just saying how like how early. you've been in my life or your. storytelling has been in my life and. just. >> how how formative it was and I still. probably watch that movie every year. Like I don't think you can go a year. without seeing it. But I want to roll. back a little bit. Were they still like. carry on with your French and let's. focus on the business or.

>> my mother didn't talk to me for a for a. month. >> if someone feels upset or sometimes if. you feel you've upset at someone how do. you transform. >> I apologize firstly there's nothing. wrong in saying sorry you know there's. nothing wrong in reaching someone's. residence and saying look I was. insensitive and I apologize I did you. wrong. >> when I told them I wanted to be a monk. they weren't the happiest it's not the. best news to get as parents but. >> my request is always to parents please. know that your child has to be loved no. matter what.

>> Walk me through. You just said now that. it was at that moment that all those. tough moments, all those difficult. moments really almost felt like they. made sense. There was a destiny that was. calling you that way. What was the. hardest moment up until then? What was. the most difficult moment that you'd. experienced? >> Was there a memory that you have or. >> Yeah, it was there was so many. It was. actually the toughest moment at that. time right prior to that was just me. watching my father fail. It was really. tough. Uh the film business uh like most. businesses but the film business I'll.

tell you why is particularly can be. sometimes hard because your success and. failure are very known. Uh you know when. you have a business J like it doesn't do. well. Not everybody knows like if any ex. person starts a a shop a business a. startup doesn't do well unless it's a. listed company you don't really know. what's going on with anybody's business. But with a film you know its success you. know it's failure. the success is. celebrated and the failure is discussed. and analyzed all the time. So when my.

father actually produced his very first. film in 1980 that did really well and. then the four films subsequently all. failed and we had tough financial times. those days producers were there were no. studios there was no funding from. studios there was no corporate funding. there was no bank funding it was like. those old-fashioned producers sold homes. sold jewelry sold stuff and all that. happened to us my mom had to sell her. maternal house there was jewelry sold my. father had to sell the only piece of. land he owned all because we gave some. backto-back disasters at the box office.

So just watching them fail and today. when there's this whole chatter about. nepotism specifically surrounding me, I. laugh in my head. I'm like my father. would have had the biggest laugh because. he was like we weren't even on the radar. as the most influential production. house. We had failed, we had stumbled, we had fallen and we were still rising. because my father was a good man and. loved by the business. He loved he was. very loved by the movie fraternity but. he was not he was not a success story.

and I saw and to watch your own parent. go through that on a daily basis is not. easy to watch your mom like cry when my. dad's not watching is not easy because I. was watching both at a distance cuz they. try to keep me away shelter me but every. day I saw sadness in the house and I was. yet given so much love and so much joy. yet everything they had they would give. me like whether it was holiday or it was. like a night out or it was a movie and I. everything that I ever wanted like was I.

was never denied anything. It's because. whatever they could have it was for me. It was all for me. So I saw the blend of. Kushi and happiness and sadness all at. once at all at times. So the toughest. times were watching all this but then. you knew that there was a silver lining. coming and the film Kuchai was that. silver lining. >> Yeah. when they saw you uh Yeshua Praj. and Adi and start working with them were. they still like carry on with your. French and let's focus on the business. or.

>> my mother didn't talk to me for a for a. month uh when I decided to do this she. was very unhappy because as I said she. saw my father fail and she was like this. is not the profession to be in you don't. have the the wherewithal you don't have. the emotional tools you don't have the. personality for this business you won't. you're too soft you won't be able do and. my dad was pragmatic and he was also. emotional. He was like okay you're. asking for a year take a year but assure. me after that year you will do what what. you think is right that is more stable.

like please don't pursue something if. you feel it's it's not working out. because don't do what I did because I've. I've stretched myself in the business. and I haven't achieved success and I. don't want that for you but then my mom. came around because Adi came and. explained to my mom that look this is. going to be great for him and you know. then eventually she's my mom so she came. around but a year later things really. started changing because when the film. released Then Shah Ruk spoke to me and. then opportunities you know were seeming. like they were coming my way. I still. remember when my movie was being made.

till the very last day before I went on. to set my mom actually took me aside at. home and said look you don't have to do. this. Are you doing this because. everybody else is telling you to do it. or you really want to do it? Do you. really think you're good enough? And I. was like I don't know. I'll have to get. onto that film set. And I was like mom. like that's not really a vote of. confidence. like a day prior to me. filming Kucha. She said, "You can still. back out.". >> Wow. >> You can still like stop. She's saying, "Do you even know what to do with the. camera?" And I was like, she's saying, "Because we we're not creative people. How have you got this bug? Why do you.

want to do this? Are you sure you are. good at it?" And I sat back and I. actually thought about it that entire. night before I went on to film. I was. like, "Am I making the biggest mistake. of my life? Is this really meant for me? Should I be making movies at all?" But. then I was like, you know what? Now I. can't do anything about it. Shah Rukh. Khan's reporting on set at 9:00 a.m. in. the morning. I better be on that set and. try and give it my best. >> What do you think Adi saw in you? >> I have no idea. I asked him even now. Really? >> I had no idea what he saw in me.

>> He's like, I just knew you were. He says. he says you you were so passionate about. cinema, but you were subduing it and. suppressing it because of your. circumstance. And um he was I just knew. it. He just knew it. He's the reason I I. sit here across you today. And then Shah. Ruk, I have no idea. Even Shah Ruk says. the same thing. I don't think they have. a valid explanation. I think they just. they just felt it. It was an in which is. why I think instincts are are. superpowers. When we don't listen to. them, we're actually failing that. superpower. It's all of us have it. We're all super people. Like we all have.

superpowers. We don't act on it. We. intellectualize it. We give it. circumstance. We give it logic. We give. it like overinking. But actually our. first instinct is always bang on. And. their first instinct was this kid knows. what he's going to do. So they acted on. it. Fortunately for me, but they have no. rational explanation for why they asked. me to do what I what I do today. >> Walk me through an example of when. you've followed your instinct and it's. worked. I guess you've given some. examples already, but an example of when. you have ignored it or when you.

suppressed it. Every time I've met a. person and asked him to direct a film. for me, I've met and some of the biggest. filmmakers um you know who've come off. from our studio Dharma Productions have. been my first instinct whether it's Ayan. Mukharji, Shakun Batra, Shashankan. so many I can measure they ally. making Brahmati he's he's a big. filmmaker he came met me assisted me I. told him you should direct a film he. makes his first film called wake up he. and several others have been a result of. my first instinct And those have people.

a lot of people said, "Well, why? What. have they done? Have they even done. anything before? Why are you asking them. to direct a whole feature film?" And I'm. like, I felt it. And yet there are. sometimes when I'm producing a film and. everything about it seems right. It's. all falling into place, but something's. telling me that there's something wrong, but I haven't acted on it because I feel. it's all looking too good to be true. >> Yeah. You know I remember there was a. film it was an adaptation of a Mani. Ratnam film a very beautiful film and it. was film called Okanu and Aditya and. Shadha had just done a blockbuster.

called Ashiki and they had already. agreed to do the film and the film came. to me as a project ready with a great. remake shad was a wonderful director. wonderful actors and yet in my heart I. had actually felt that should this film. be remade because it's so much in the. moment can that moment be recaptured and. that movie and as special as all my. movies are to me and both of them were. incredible in the film Adityas Dashad. made a lovely film but somehow I think. that magic of the original we couldn't. recapture and it was nobody's fault it.

was nobody's fault but my instinct told. me I shouldn't do it and I did it and. that's when I realized that that I. should listen to my instinct and yet. after that I haven't and I've gone wrong. you know I've gone because somehow we do. repeat our our mistakes we make them. again and again no matter how you say. mistakes and failings are learnings not. really you know we say it do we really. follow we'll make it again. Life is till. your dying day you're going to make what. you call errors or mistakes or. misjudgments and there's nothing you can. do about that. No amount of. spirituality, philosophy, books,

sessions of like spiritual learnings can. ever make you stop making those. mistakes. Those mistakes also define us. Those wounds and scars are also such a. huge part of us. Every failure of mine. is as special to me as every success. It's just the way I look at it. How did. you train yourself to look at it that. way or have you always been that way? >> I in fact believe extreme failure gives. me relief because I feel ah it failed. I. know it failed. I have to analyze why.

but it's failed. It's a it's a it's a. result because success is so stressful. Nothing fails like success because you. have to follow success with more success. and then with more success. Failure is a. great place to sometimes be for you to. reflect, analyze, take some time off and. also it's a verdict. It's a failure. What I can't bear J is is average. >> I hate average. I hate mediocre. I hate. average. I hate above average. Average. average. AVG was neither here nor there.

I hate that space because I don't know. how much of it is tilting towards. success and how much towards failure. And I can't bear that verdict. I'd. rather a very big massive failure than. an average grosser. I can't bear those. cuz those give me like nightmares about. what it could have been. >> or what I could have done and I didn't. do. Whereas failure is like ah I went. totally wrong. This is a great result. Failure gives me a lot of relief. Success extreme success stresses me out. When I give a big blockbuster I'm like. oh now they'll expect a bigger one the. next time. Now what am I going to do?

You know, it's like somehow I think like. nothing like success is a is a heavy. feeling to to carry with you. So I look. at success like I look at sadness like. an obvious eventuality like you have to. have to have to envelop it, embrace it. because it's going to be part of your. life. There's a Hindi song and I'll. translate it for you. Something that I I. think is my life philosophy. It says. so it's like okay dear person like why.

does sadness affect you and why you. afraid it's actually should be your. friend and the next line is. so it's like happiness is like a shadow. like it's like breeze it's like it'll. come in and out of your life you know. but your constant is sadness so embrace. it because it's going to be your. constant and when sadness and when. happiness comes in, it's like sunshine. It'll come and then it'll go back into. the clouds. So, embrace what you have, which is sadness. And it's such a.

positive look at sadness or tragedy or. dark areas of your life, gray areas of. your life, because it's always there. So, you might as well befriend it. because when sunshine comes, you'll. enjoy it even more. But know that you. have to come back to this. And I don't. look at it like with sadness or. darkness. I look at it with like with a. lot of joy. So, I embrace sadness with a. lot of happiness. And that's the only. way I think I can live my life. >> Karin, you're a philosopher. I. >> I don't know about that. I just think. there are certain fundas in life really. that if you kind of like just know that.

like it's like life and death. Like you. know we can mourn death. We can feel. terrible. But can your life stop? No. You have to move on. Nothing is worse. than losing a loved one. But you. eventually have to come to terms with. the fact that it's happened. That's why. there's a full stop because the next. sentence has to begin. So it's only can. start when that full stop is registered. and then you move on. I look at life. like that. Whatever goes wrong is going. to go wrong. Nothing is going to be. constantly happy. Nothing is going to be.

constantly sad. It's the way you have to. kind of just understand life. And and. maybe because as a child I had such a. rough patch. I think I kind of armored. myself for me to you know feel the way I. do today about anything. >> Who have you lost that that full stop. was hard to. >> My father. He passed away much earlier. than I ever imagined when he was in his. early 70s and uh very healthy on his. feet, active man, no vices. He just one day had a fourth stage tumor.

in his esophagus which we found out much. later when it was in its fourth stage. and that went into full-blown cancer and. he passed from the time of uh the. diagnosis to the point of him passing. away was 10 months. I'm a realist. I'm. not an optimist or or a pessimist. I'm a. realist. So I went to the oncologist in. and we were surprisingly filming uh. Kalhono which is about a man dying and. it is about a man dying. We were in New. York and I went to my ancologist and.

said look my father you know and like. tell me give me the heart fact and he. said look it doesn't look good and I. said okay now I know this that I know it. doesn't look good and we'll do. everything in our capacity medically to. kind of you know but I said I don't want. to see him in pain and actually oddly. the five days that he had a tough time. were the five days of his chemotherapy. those were the tough days the subsequent. days to the chemotherapy but actually. those 10 day other months besides those. five days gave me so much time that I.

could spend with him that I had. conversations I never thought I would. We discussed my childhood. We discussed. his early years. We discussed his. achievements, his failures, his regrets, his joys. I have complete closure with. my relationship with my father because I. have no unanswered questions because in. those 10 months I wasn't running around. like a headless chicken trying to keep. him alive. I had accepted that he may go. and in those months I lived in the.

moment with him and I was able to have. all those conversations that I would. have loved to have had with him earlier. but I didn't but now those 10 months. gave me that and I even told my mom I. was like talk to him speak to him but. she was finding very tough to accept the. situation so she couldn't and that's why. she still doesn't have closure 20 years. have passed since he passed away and she. still has not been able to deal with his. passing away and she's 82 years old. today. Whereas I actually have complete. closure because I had every conversation.

I could have dreamt of having with a. with a parent I did and I that's why I. always tell people like communicate. today because there may not be a. tomorrow. Tell them today anything you. have a problem you have resentment. issues you have parental trauma you've. got to speak today because today. communication is the resolve is the is. the aid is you're looking for is the. solution to every problem we don't talk. specifically I think um in our parenting. structure in India we have respect and.

respect sometimes equals distance. >> you know and that respect should not. give you distance in a relationship. respect should also be a close component. of love. It should actually give you the. ability to communicate to your parent. Just because you respect your father and. mother doesn't mean you can't say what. you want. Parents are not always. correct. It's not that they are saying. the right thing to you all the time. They are carrying the baggage of their. parents and they put that baggage on to. you and you may not need it or you. shouldn't have it. And you have to kind.

of have an open line of channel and you. can still be respectful. Never not be. respectful because that's something that. our tradition teaches us, our culture. teaches us. But please, I always tell. people, keep an open channel of. communication with your parent because. they may not always be correct. They may. not always be right. They may not be. right. Advice or value system may not be. good for you and you have to sometimes. question it. >> Yeah, for sure. Was there a specific. question you asked or a conversation you.

remember fondly from that time? As you. said, you had every conversation, you. asked every question. Is there one that. stands out? >> I asked him whether he has any regrets, you know, and he spoke to me widely. about like his relationship with his. parents and his siblings and, you know, what he thought he did wrong as even. career-wise and how he thought he was. taken for a ride, but he didn't act on. it at the right time. He lost a lot of. money because some of his indiscretions. and, you know, he spoke about that. openly. He also spoke about the fact.

that like sometimes he has he has things. he wants to tell my mom but he doesn't. say it because he doesn't want to hurt. or upset her and he says I wish I had. Then he tells me he told me like you. know I wish uh I would have spent more. time with you. You would have been I I. wish I had incorporated sport in your. life. It would have given you a sense of. much more like because I believe sport. is not just for physical health. It's. also gives you it trains your mind very. differently. and he said I didn't spend. enough active time with you cuz I was so. busy working. So he told me a lot about.

his regrets and his um thoughts at that. time and I think it really helped him as. well. I think it kind of gave him so. much closure and I think those. conversations are very dear to me and. then he wrote an 11page letter to me. >> which I didn't know existed was given to. me post him passing away um where he. wrote all the business or the accounts. and it was a technical letter of. everything about like this is the. account these are the these are my like. the businesses that we've this you don't. owe money to anyone it's all done this.

is where the bank account etc detail. mutual deposits funds like whatever the. investments At that time he gave me like. an handwritten handwritten it was. written by him in hand and then he wrote. people you can trust people you can't. trust things you should never do like he. just it became my Bible and I've. literally I think 90% of it is what I. followed and he wrote me a 11page letter. and I still unelievable had he ever. written you a letter before. >> never he knew he was going so he wrote. me that and it wasn't an emotional. letter it was a practical.

>> thoughtful businessminded futurebased. letter it was all about me, how to. manage the funds, what we have, what we. don't have, who owes him money. And he. said, but never ask them till they come. to you. Uh because you know it was all. given in good faith. And he said we. don't owe anyone anything. So if anyone. comes and asks, it's not true. And he. gave me every single detail that me who. was not business-minded, had zero. business acumen, needed that 11 pager, uh that I followed as my Bible to kind.

of uh uh forge forward at that time. >> Wow. What a beautiful gift. >> to leave someone. That's so powerful. >> I've never heard that before. >> I've never heard someone leaving their. child a practical, thoughtful. I mean, the idea of who to trust and who not to. trust. >> He never wrote anything that I love you. I will always that that was said. already. It was none of that. It was not. a hallmark letter, >> you know. It was a it was a business. letter. >> That's unbelievable. Thank you for. sharing that. I mean, as I'm listening.

to you today, I feel like and I felt. this in any of our conversations we've. had, but even more so today because I'm. learning so much more. There's so much. depth and intention behind everything. you've done. Like there's there's even. even you saying that you follow your. intuition, you calling it a superpower, even that idea that we all have. superpowers and we can connect to them. is quite beautiful. I wanted to go back. to something you shared earlier. You. were talking about how you don't like. being mediocre or average. And there's a. beautiful study in science that shows.

that that's true because people who come. second in a race feel much more. disappointed than those who come third. if you come. second. for us psychologically that coming. second is the worst feeling in the. world. At least third you made the. podium. At least you're up there. standing up there. You're happy that you. made it. I wanted to go back to that. time when you're working on.

and you're on the set because you told. me some stories when we were together. that blew my mind because I think what. we think of a film set and what you're. actually doing and running around trying. to make everything happen that paints a. very different picture of this glamorous. view of film making that a lot of us. have if we're not in the business. Walk. us through what the dayto-day and some. of those set stories actually look like. I mean it was nothing like it is today. Today we have a department for. everything. We have teams for.

everything. We have like human resources. doing everything. We didn't even have a. monitor where we could see the frame. We. had nothing which was all dependent on. the on the cinematographer to tell us. you know and we were three assistant. directors who doing everything. They. were doing everything from continuity to. like managing actors. There was no such. thing as a call sheet. It was like. verbally told to everybody. You had to. go knocking on doors and saying tomorrow. 9:00. tomorrow 9:00. That's what we did. Uh there was no call sheet. There was no. dialogue printed on a computer and it.

was written handwritten. We wrote. handwritten dialogues and then we. zeroxed them and gave them to actors. Like that's how they they had. handwritten like it was predominantly. written by us. And then we did. everything. I was costume designer. I. was also designing Shah's clothes and. costume coordinator and continuity and. uh Chopra Adi's brother was doing all. the other we also handling crowds at at. live locations like screaming and. shouting and telling them to back off. because we are shooting and filming. It. was not easy. I mean I didn't and the. only thing that traumatized me was doing.

the clap. I tried to do it for two days. and then the DP the cinem. cinematographer told me like you're not. going to get this so just give it to. somebody you know who has like a modicum. of intelligence because I wasn't just. managing to stand with that clap I just. would never know where to stand with it. and I was just like you know I and we. were doing every single thing it was. there was no such the best learning in. my life was on that one year of because. it was crazy how much we all had to. achieve and today when I have a costume.

department There's production doing all. the this the crowd management and then. there's a there's a camera department. There are DAs, there are ads, there's. everything. We had nothing. We were like. one-stop shops doing everything. I've. literally gotten up in the morning, gone. to shops, bought like accessories for. all the women in the frame like bangles. and like those jewelries and rings and. you know things they put in their hair, bought them from stations because those. were where they were cost were cheaper. Brought them on set, made everyone wear. that. Like there was no help assistance.

on the there was like outdoor when we. used to shoot like AC out of the country. when we shot in Switzerland we were a. unit of 21 people just 21 people making. a movie in one bus we would sit in one. bus we would drive and Adi would look at. the locations let's stop and this looks. beautiful let's go film and then and. then then we used to take Kajul behind a. tree make her wear a sari and Shah Ruk. change anywhere and then come and shoot. and then we would go back into that bus. and start when we were shooting a long. sequence and they were like, "Oh, this.

is beautiful. Stop. Stop. You could. shoot here." And I'm like, it was. eventually it seems hilarious location. >> There was no scout. Where? What? What. scout? We didn't have the money to do. it. I mean, back then like it was like. movies and when you went travel out of. the country, it was a big deal that you. were out of the country like and we were. like everyone everyone held equipment. and walked up if you had to shoot on a. mountaintop. Shah Ruk was holding. equipment. Kajel was holding equipment. We were all like literally everyone was. a team. Everyone had to kind of take. stuff. There was no such thing as. additional help support. Today everyone.

is so spoiled. Today you walk into a. vanity when an actor has eight people. There was no publicist. There was no. management. There was no anybody. There. was nothing. A leading lady had her. parent, her mom or her family member. there and the leading the man had. nobody. And it was like literally there. was like one person doing everything. And I remember a time when Kajul was in. and her hair and makeup team didn't show. up because they didn't get a visa. And I. was brushing her hair on set and her mom. was doing her makeup and and I didn't.

know the anything about straightening. her hair. So her mom helped her. We used. to straighten her hair together, brush. it on set and then I would go and do all. the other stuff because I we didn't have. a hair and makeup person for her and you. know it was like crazy. But I look back. on those days and I remember at one. point of time me and there was a stylist. who's now a huge celebrated stylist. called Anita Shruff. She was in the film. as an actor at that time and we were. told like get Kajul in a sari. We have. to shoot immediately. So we went to. change and then all of us realized that. none of us knew how to tie a sari,

right? Neither did Kajul know how to tie. her sari. Neither did Anita know how to. make anyone wear a sari and neither did. I know. So I went on memory cuz I. watched my mom wear a sari. So whatever. I could remember at that time and. whatever night and we've tied that sari. in some way which looks according to me. terrible. And if anybody watches Dilval, it's the electric blue sari she wears in. the snow in the song where Shah Ruk is. in a red shirt. Please see how she has. draped her sari. It's like a cafan on. her or something like that. It's like. there's no shape in the draping. There's.

no there's no technicality and like I. remember like looking and like God pray. please nobody points this out because we. didn't know what to do. We had no one to. help us. >> So I mean this just few of the stories. to tell you how we made movies back. then. >> Yeah. And it's it's. >> and let me tell you still we had the. best time. >> Today there was there was a purity, innocence and camaraderie that doesn't. exist today. like it's just today is so. structured but it's also so boring. >> because it's all too organized. There. was some method to that madness that.

doesn't exist. >> Yeah, there was a magic there. There's. magic. And was it planned that you would. be in the movie yourself? Was that. always part of the plan? >> The guy who was meant to play the part. didn't show up and like Shah Ruk and. Hardi turned around and said you're. doing the part. And I was like you. wanted me to be an extra in a movie as. if like I had done anything in my life. to achieve that to say that. But I just. had some aspiration you know and they. were like just do it. You don't have a. choice. And I was like, "Okay." And my. mom got a shock because she I didn't. tell her that I was in the movie. So. when she saw the first movie the first. time, she was like, "What?" Like, "Why. did you I said, "Okay." So I'm in I'm.

I'm in a blockbuster. That's what. matters. >> What was the moment on set? Obviously, you have that conversation with Shah Ruk. afterwards and people love your. friendship. What was the moment where. you felt you really connected on that. set that you felt there was some. beautiful connection that brought you. together? >> It was actually the climax. We were. shooting the climax much earlier on in. the filming of the film and I had. written about 60 or 70% of that scene. and Adi allowed me to write it and it's. the first piece of writing I ever did. and when we were rehearsing the scene.

Adi told Shah Ruk that Karan's you know. really helped in the scene and written. you know this much of the scene and it. was very gracious of him to say it and. Shahuk looked at me and he was like you. wrote this so I was like he's like. really and he's like you can write. dialogue I was like well you know he. said but I don't see I didn't I just saw. cuz I was doing his costumes at that. time. So he thought that that's where my. inclination it was that he didn't even. know that I was. So after that I think. he just kind of started talking to me. and he realized that you know I have. such a crazy passionate.

synagoguer in me and how passionate I am. about the movies and we began our. friendship from then onwards I think and. and then we would hang out every day and. he would like ask me to do he would read. his lines and call me and you know he. would like rehearse with me because Adi. was busy and then of course Adi was the. magician who created the magic but he. made me like he was jam with me on the. side before and I think that's where we. formed such a close friendship. It was. right like working when he thought that. this kid probably has some potential and. that's something probably that he knows.

best and will answer best. >> Yeah. Yeah. I remember the leather. jacket story you told me. >> Oh my god. We all went we wanted to buy. that Harley-Davidson jacket and it was. so expensive. It was so expensive at. that time. First thing no one knew that. Harley-Davidson made jackets. We just. thought they made. >> motorcycles. And uh we went and and Shah. Ruk and Adi and everybody like literally. like wanted that jacket. And I remember. we all had to kind of like really. convince each other, put in everything. that we had to buy that jacket. It was. like crazy. It was 300 sterling 300 at.

that time. 350 I'm not sure of. But. today it's equal to 30,000 maybe. I. don't know what it would mean. But like. at that time buying a jacket of that. cost was crazy. But but I remember. staring at it like staring at it and. feeling like can we even afford it? And. at that time everyone then did what they. could to make sure that we got that. jacket which today is so iconic and such. a part of the film. It's like Manish was. doing the costumes of Kuch and we were. passing a store that had the polo sport. t-shirt which he wears in the song and.

it was in at a at a cycle shop cuz you. know a cycle shop cycling shops have. these colored you know wear which is not. avail So I was like, it said Polaro. Sport color t-shirt, bright blue and. green was £75 and I was like, we can't. We thought about it for 3 days and we. made some sacrifices in our budget to. buy that at that time and I was like, today one wouldn't blink an eyelid and. just buy, but at that point of time it. was like a massive decision to make. >> Yeah. The reason why these stories are. so important to me is because I was an. 11 to 14 year old kid trying to dress.

like that. >> in real life. If you'd get the. turtleneck with the suit which comes. later on in the polo sport shirt that. you mentioned. >> No, I know. And those gap. So, we. decided that if we were buying the. brands, we must show them. They must be. written. Unlike today where people are. doing quiet luxury, this was not quiet. This was screaming brand luxury. So, Gap. and DKNY and Polo Spot, Tommy Hilfiger. It was like we just splashed all over. We said that we must show that we've. bought these expensive garments. If.

you're paying the money, people must. know this today. Who would do it? It was. crazy. You know, we would never do it. today. But that time it was like, "No, we're going to do it. We're going to. tell everyone we spend this money.". >> You weren't just impacting my love life, you impacting my fashion choices, my. wardrobe, everything in our life through. all your movies. >> And I think I think that was the biggest. thing. I remember watching Kuch Pach and. like you watch that movie and you just. think. >> everyone wants a love story like that. >> You know, every everyone wants that. Everyone's looking for that, yearning. for that, searching for that. And and I.

found myself all these movies literally. became a compass for my life. Yeah. Whether it was fashion, whether it was. love, whether it was life, whether it. was success. >> And in in the same way you said for. yourself, they became that place. And. you know my early teenage years and. childhood also different from you in. terms of the type of criticism I was. refer facing. But I was also. experiencing some of those things. I was. overweight as a child. So I was bullied. for that. There weren't many Indian kids. at my elementary primary school. So I. was bullied for that because there just.

weren't many Indians in the area that my. parents chose to live in. And I remember. I used to always act in school plays and. dramas and I loved that. But I remember. once my mom had asked me to sing a. budgeon for Diwali at my school and my. friends didn't really know what Diwali. was. They didn't know what a budgeon. was. And my mom had dressed me up as. Lord Ram. >> And so I'm dressed up basically in a. sari kind of like a toga because like. you were dressing people on set, my mom. had dressed me up. It wasn't. professional.

And I walked on stage and my whole. circle of friends just started laughing. Everyone in the audience just started. laughing because they never seen a kid. dressed like that. >> And then I remember I started singing. this budge and I have a terrible singing. voice. >> I I can't sing to say my life. >> and everyone starts laughing more and. now I'm crying on stage and I look down. at the page and now all of the lines are. blurred because my tears are blurred the. lines. So I forget the lines. So people. are laughing more and then the worst. thing happens. My teacher comes on. stage, she puts her arm around me and.

walks me off stage, which everyone. laughs and claps at more. And so it. almost feels like your movies, like what. those older movies were for you, your. movies were for me. >> because I didn't really have a space to. experience magic. >> or experience love in that way. Again, my my parents were wonderful, but. >> I remember if I liked a girl at school, she would tell the whole class and. everyone would laugh, you know, like. that was kind of my experience of that. So, your movies were a place where I. felt a bit safer, a bit cooler, a bit, you know, a bit more hip and trending.

>> Well, I'm happy to hear that. >> How does how does that feel? Because you. travel across the world and millions of. people probably say that to you now. You. probably hear that a lot from people. like myself who grew up on that. How. does that feel? >> I mean, a whole lot of gratitude. There's so much gratitude in my heart. Like, I'm always overwhelmed when. everyone anyone comes up to me. And I. heard you just now and I've heard so. many people you meet invariably at. events or parties or even airports. uh. you know people just come up and you.

know just say things that how you've. impacted their childhood or like their. growing years and that the cinema has. really like helped them seek a certain. sense of joy and you feel like you are. not just contributing to pop culture or. cinema but also to people's hearts and. minds and and their souls like you know. because everyone needs some love you. know and everyone if if your cinema has. provided that love for them and like. just it's such a beautiful feeling for. me it never makes me feel proud of. myself it just always makes me feel. grateful to the universe. Uh that.

allowed me to be a storyteller and. allowed me a platform that could be. impressionable that could give people. love and joy and even shedding a tear. because you know we all know a cathartic. cry is the most that is the most soulful. thing to happen to you. Like just crying. is such a beautiful release. I'm always. that's my one big emotion is gratitude. >> That's it. That's there's nothing more. than that. Just grateful every day. Yeah. No, what you're referring to all. these movies had so many great messages,

undertones, so many fascinating. perspectives. What's your personal inner. spiritual journey been like through all. of this? I think I found myself in the. last five or seven years. I'm 52 today. So, it started with me conforming to. like religious practices because it was. like my mom is from is from Cindas. She's Cindi. My dad is Punjabi. So my. dad had a prayer in the morning which. was like a blend of many prayer. He. prayed to many gods you know because he.

was like he believed he was Arya samaji. he didn't believe in any form of ritual. or but he believed in like havs. So you. know we used to pray in the morning then. we had havs on important occasions. because he believed that was a beautiful. aura and energy cleansing way you know. of doing havan. My mother and my father. both believed in the gurwara. Yeah. So I. believe in going to langers in my. growing years. You know I believe in you. know going very often to gwaras across. the country. Um golden temple being my.

my most soulful place where I can really. find peace and happiness in the golden. temple in Amritsar. So I remember then. going to temples as well and you know. idol worshiing and uh I did everything. you know I remember walking to a temple. one day before the release of a film uh. because all this is because it was told. to me uh I hadn't found my own inner. voice uh viz religion or spirituality or. worship or belief I went through my. process of going to even like religious.

like pundits and astrologers and charts. and you know going through psychics and. everything just finding all the tools. you can to protect yourself and preserve. things you have till I realized that I. don't want to be someone that I don't. want to be and I don't want I don't. believe that I'm going to do anything. that not coming from my heart I believe. that life lessons have equaled my. spirituality in the moment what I've.

learned and what I embibe and what I say. and what I believe is going to be my. journey ahead so if I feel like going to. a place if I feel if someone has calls. me to worship an idol and I don't feel. it I won't go it's not that I don't I. nothing against anybody else's religious. belief but it may not necessarily be. mine. >> you know so my belief is karma based my. big belief is in karma I believe that. karma is a bank that you have to keep. depositing on a daily basis the more.

your karma collects the more your world. and your family and your loved ones are. protected. I believe being good is. karma. Giving is karma. Helping is. karma. Supporting is karma. Coming in. someone's way is bad karma. Hurting. someone is bad karma. You know, stopping. someone's growth is bad karma. Just, you. know, betraying someone is bad karma. I. don't want that. So, I believe my. religion or my spiritual school of. thought is karma related. It's all about.

building my karma points, my karma bank. I want that to be the richest part of. me. It's my my karma bank. And that is. to me my religion, my spirituality, my. everything. So there's a line in. Yashopra film called. which means your karum is your victory. And that is what I believe. What's the. point of me going to temples and places. of worship but actually stabbing. somebody in their back? What is the. point of me chanting every morning if. I'm being terrible in my relationships.

or my friendships or being insensitive? What is the point of me learning. discoursing like reading books but not. operating like and people and I don't. judge anyone for what they do. You do. you. You be you. If if every morning. meditating and chanting is your thing, please do it. To me, I get peace from my. actions, from my doings. When I can. genuinely contribute to somebody's life, I sleep better that night. That's all.

I'm doing, Jay, is that I'm actually. building that bank. >> That to me is my belief system. >> If someone feels upset or sometimes if. you feel you've upseted someone, how do. you transform? >> I apologize. Firstly, there's nothing. wrong in saying sorry. You know, there's. nothing wrong in reaching someone's. residence and saying, "Look, I was. insensitive and I apologize. I did you. wrong. You know, I did something wrong. I said something wrong. I overspoke in. the moment or I wasn't there for you, you know. And I believe that ego. is it's so restrictive. It stops you at.

every stage. So you have to as a human. being realize the difference between ego. and selfrespect. There is a difference. There's a huge difference. >> Tell us. >> Ego is very simple. Ego is unproductive. and idiotic. Anyone has an ego. It's. stupid. If I come to your party uninvited, you. know, because I feel I can, I don't have. an ego. If you treat me well, that's. great. But if you treat me badly and. I've come uninvited, that hurts my. self-respect and I leave that party. So,

we preserve our selfrespect, but we kill. our ego. Selfrespect is everything. How. people treat you, how they respect you, how they deal with you is dabbling onto. selfrespect. Me having an ego because I. feel I'm a public figure and I I deserve. something. I'm entitled something. That's an ego. Who am I? We're all a. dot. In the larger galaxy of the world, who is anybody? We're all one dot. Know. that you're a dot. You know, you could. be the biggest achiever in this world, but you are still one tiny dot. And you.

will be erased and another dot will come. in your place. So when you look at life. like this, we are all nobody. So how. dare you have an ego? Self-respect you. have to do for your soul. You have to do. it for yourself. So I understand the. difference and I try very hard never to. bring my ego. We all going to get it. Ego, we're human. We're going to fail. and fall and fumble. But I don't want. ego to be my my speed breaker. I don't. want it to come in my way. So if I mess. up, if I I'm insensitive and I have done. something that I believe is incorrect, I. will apologize.

>> I will apologize. >> Where did these ideologies come from. within you? >> I have no idea. I think it's. acknowledging your circumstance, embracing the life that you've led, understanding your failures, acknowledging your missteps. All that. teaches you right you know you know. where you've gone wrong what you've done. wrong and you know what you need to. correct and what you need to course. correct and that gives you a certain. sense of life lessons for me I love what. you do and I love what you say and I.

love your belief system I can never be. you but I can always listen to you but. many a time I've interviewed spiritual. leaders. and I with a lot of respect I go you. know and whether it's from you know in. India we have so many spiritual I've had. the good fortune of interviewing myself. I've learned I've embibed. But if you. ask me, do I follow anyone? No, I don't. I follow my life's errors and my life's. strengths and I learn from that and I. follow and I chart my own path ahead. I.

don't believe in a certain religious. force. I don't believe in a certain. human guru. I don't believe my I have no. belief, personal belief. And I don't. have anyone's image on my phone or in my. room baring my parents. I believe when. you lose a parent also you gain a god. And I believe my god is my father. So. when I'm in distress or I'm in duress. and I'm in in a zone of turbulence in my. life, I turn to my dad and I'm like even.

>> help me like what what what are you. doing up there? Like you know move your. magic like you know like take your magic. wand out. You can help me. You can do. this. You can come through. It's not. that he everything comes through when. you pray, but at least you're you're. communicating to a higher force. And I. believe that force is genuinely a higher. force. I know for a fact that he is. there in the universe somewhere. And I. know his spirit is listening to me. So I. know somebody, but I don't know what. else God is. I don't know. I don't know. where this force is, but I know my.

father somewhere in the universe. So I. believe when you lose a parent, you do. gain a god. And that's the one thing I. live by as well. >> Yeah. And and I love what you were. saying about I think ultimately life is. trying to teach each and every one of us. to trust ourselves. >> Yeah. >> To not have this false external. dependence on some external force in. this world as opposed to actually. discovering within us where those. answers evolve. >> Because I mean like you you've been. brought into this world. The na nature.

is a is an unexplainable phenomena. How. we've all been born and we live this. life. We're in this moment right now. I'm talking, you're listening. It's all. so fantastical if you really look at it. from an external gaze. I don't want to. be dependent on anything because I need. to find my own answers. I have to ask my. own questions. It's as simple as that. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that. accountability and responsibility. transforms people's lives. And I think. that's what we should hope for everyone. and everyone should aspire for rather. than hoping that someone else. >> and again I say to each his own. You.

find your space, your happiness, your. joy in your belief system. You must do. what makes you happy. >> If you feel this is what I need to do. for myself, please do it. There is no. right or wrong in any practice. >> in any belief system. There's just. perspective. You have it for yourself. You operate therefore. >> Yeah, definitely. In when when in your. life did you realize you were. comfortable being single? >> You know, through my when I turned 40, I. had a deep desire of finding a partner. and I was like, how can I be single? I.

need love. I need this. I need that. and. and then I went ahead and had my babies. I was fortunate before you know the laws. were made I could have um you know. through the legal route uh my babies and. when the babies were born in 2017 I. realized that my uh kota of love that I. felt was owed to me by the universe was. brimming was full and uh the biggest. love story in my life is now my mom and. my kids and um I felt like okay so I.

could get the joy of intimacy with. somebody um I could be physically. intimate with a person and enjoy that. experience. I could be dating somebody. who kind of helps complete that moment. in my life. But do I really need an. external human being, another person to. live with uh to complete me? No. I feel. very complete already. And am I closing. that door completely? Not at all. You. never know. You never say never. But. today, if you ask me, am I looking? No. Am I dating? No. Am I happy being.

single? Yes. Am I happy sharing my. bedroom with no one? Yes. my bathroom. with no one? Yes. Do I think I can? No. Uh if I'm in a relationship, get a room. Uh we'll meet for breakfast. Uh we'll. meet for lunch and dinner. But you can't. stay with me. That's I'm now set in my. way. Will I fall in love? Well, I hope I. rise in it firstly and because I've done. my bit of falling. It's not fun. And. I've been through one-sided love. stories. I've been through unrequited. romances. I've been through my own.

trauma visav emotional search for your. partner. It's not worked for me. Let's. just say it's not for me. Uh at age 52, am I closing that door? Like I said, no, I'm not. But I'm very happy with my. single status. I can't tell you the joy. it gives me. >> Did you ever have your heart broken? >> Yes. Oh, yes. Twice. Uh second eye was. tougher. Second night was a long love. story of which I actually was almost. cathartic because for me I kind of. autobiographically told it in mushkiller.

the story of one-sided love. Uh I that. story is mine. Of course, I'm Ranir. Kapoor in that because I'm the one. chasing somebody I couldn't get. Um and. wanting something I I that and no one. lied to me. You know, the person. involved never lied to me. Always was. clear. But I was just wanting it and I. was not myself in those seven years. I. was not my personality type. I was out. of character. I did things out of. character. And I hate those years. When. I look back, I'm like I was so weak. But.

then it also empowered me. It made me. feel alive. One part of me also felt. like oh that romance that love that. yearning is still there. So it was a bit. of like a two things that were going on. One I was hating the person I was being. in those seven eight years but I was. also enjoying the fact that that love. had come back into my life like it had. re but that was a tough time. It taught. me so much and made me mildly cynical at. the end of that experience about love. Now I'm okay cuz I'm not I'm over that. as well. Like I'm not cynical about. love. I'm just happy being single. >> Yeah. How did you heal and overcome. that? Because that's seven years is a.

long time. I also went through a bout of. anxiety in that phase and that was u my. first burst you know with a psychiatrist. uh where I actually spoke about it and I. needed medication because I was feeling. >> uh I didn't realize at that time what I. was going through till she analyzed it. for me and said you know you have it's a. form of depression you are going through. this and it's anxiety and uh you need to. be medicated if you want to lead a. regular normal life and those sessions.

with her really helped me. That. medication helped me. I weaned it off. eventually, but then I came back into it. in March last year where I got this. attack. Actually, you were there. >> Yeah, we um at NMAC at the at at the. convention center launch, which is by. the way outstanding. It was a thousand. people and I was sit standing right. there and at one point I thought I. couldn't breathe and I looked at a. friend of mine and I said, "Just take me. into an empty room cuz I don't I I. thought I couldn't move like I had to be. guided into the room." and he gave me.

water and I had regular coke cuz I felt. my sugar had dropped and I left and I. went to my doctor and I thought is this. a cardiac arrest? Is this was a panic. attack? It was an anxiety attack. I went. back into my medication. I'm still on. it. Uh and I realized that what happened. in the last 2 years strangely from the. most sociable person is that I developed. what you call social anxiety. I'm okay. with places that I'm really comfortable. But if you take me in a room full of. crowded people of people I know and who. know me, I have to leave. I can't take.

it. I need to I need windows. I need. some outdoor space. You take me to a. place where nobody knows me and I don't. know anybody and oddly I'm fine. So it's. I don't know what it's to do. And we've. analyzed it at my sessions with her but. I'm uncomfortable in crowds or people. after a point. I always leave parties. early and this is a new thing that has. started in my life. I don't like to go. I I get cold feet before, you know, any. kind of a massive big event I have to go. to. But if I'm on stage hosting an award. show, I'm fine. You know, if you put me. on stage and there are 10,000 people in.

front of me, I'm okay. But if I'm in. that 10,000 people, you take me to a. rock concert or like I I won't be able. to do it. >> I can't do it. >> I just can't. I just don't like to be in. the middle of a crowd. And from somebody. who thrived on it, from somebody who. loved it, from somebody who was at every. single social event and party because I. really wanted to and loved it, I've gone. the exact opposite way. >> What changed? >> I have no clue, Jay. I have no idea what. happened. I think it was excessive in my. life and now it's like, you know, it's.

too much of something and then you start. developing a fear of it. And that's what. happened to me. Like I have the the most. ironical thing happened to me is that I. developed a form of social anxiety. >> Would you ever want to go back to being. the other way again or. >> it's more just. >> I'm not saying I'm happy with the. situation cuz I'm on medication but I. don't know if I want to go back to that. either. I think I found what I did find. in these years. >> is a lot of great joy spending time with.

myself. M. >> I found myself as my closest companion. I was never my best friend. I've become. very close to myself in the last couple. of years. I finally feel like my. companion is now me. My life partner is. now me and we're getting along really. well. I'm also Gemini, so. >> uh that also works in a certain way. You. get two for the price of one. But but I. finally found my life companion. >> and uh we're doing very well. Yeah, I.

think I actually think that's a. beautiful place to be even when you're. in a relationship. So my wife and I. thankful to have a wonderful. relationship. been together for 11 years. now and I still feel that my. relationship with myself is my most. important relationship. >> and she does with herself and I think. that that's so important even in. >> a relationship because otherwise if. you're always trying to fill your gaps. with the other person and you have to. call them and you have to message them. and you have to be together. A it's not.

physically possible. B you will be. separated at some point whether through. travel or by life inevitably. and. building that relationship with yourself. to be able to spend a weekend by. yourself, an evening, months sometimes I. think is one of the most beautiful. traits and abilities. So to hear about. it from you is is actually really really. special. And one thing that you shared. with me that I that really resonated. with me about social anxiety was this. feeling we all have of letting people.

down. >> Yeah. And so when it's the people that. are around us that we know, we all have this feeling of like I hope. that person doesn't feel I didn't say. hello to them and. >> so that people pleasing has been part of. my it's been part of my personality type. for years. And so even now today if I'm. at a party I think the social anxiety. also was a result of like have I met. everybody have I gone and wished to. everybody you know have I been nice to. them have I hugged them warmly these. thoughts keep coming in even me I have. message reply anxiety like have I. replied have I forgotten to reply and I.

always write sorry for my delayed. response if I'm always reply it's that. people pleasing was part and that. continues and that's part of my anxiety. you know and you're absolutely right um. that this does happen to me like I feel. like have I met everybody body warmly. Have I said if I'm at the party and. there are 10 people I know I can see. from the my in my from the corner of my. eye but I haven't met them it plays on. my head oh it's exhausting I can never. be at a party and just sit in one place. and talk to one person I'll feel like. I'm upsetting 100 people they may not be. upset at all but I can't fight that.

thought. >> it's in my head. >> yeah and it's and it's real. >> and I don't want to win this popularity. contest with anyone because Lord knows I. may not be the most popular person or. whatever whatever people I think but the. people I know who love me love me and. and know me as who I am and you know but. somehow that personality type doesn't. leave you. >> of wanting to please people. >> Yeah. Yeah. And it's and it's deep. wiring and deep conditioning like you've. we've all had it since we were so young. to be that person. And then with someone.

like yourself, the more you grow, the. more people you know, the more. expectations and and maybe sometimes in. the past, like you said, not everyone. cares, but the few people who did care, maybe sometimes they've judged you or. interact in a certain way. I know I've. been through that myself. >> And it happens to me because I'm always. meeting people in a certain way that if. I sometimes meet them slightly tepidly, they're like, it's not like you to be. like this. Are you okay? Like why? I'm. like, you know, it's like you have to. put up an act on a show. Like you know. if you're the funny guy in the room then. you have to always be funny and I.

sometimes you just don't want to be. >> you just and I've reached that point in. my life like I get that so often when. I'm just quiet they're like are you sad. about something are you okay I'm like no. I'm just quiet. >> I'm allowed to be quiet I don't need to. crack a joke I don't need to say a funny. thing you know I know I can be funny but. I don't want to be today can you just. leave me but nobody does because you're. you you're conforming if I don't reply. to a message to a person because it. slipped me because I they're like not. like you not to reply you know cuz I get. that cuz I'm so good at at communication. that when you don't, you know, so all.

this I think put together has built this. >> this anxiety. >> Yeah. And and I I think I shared with. you I I feel that pressure sometimes or. I used to many years ago that I let go. of was everyone was always waiting for. me to say something profound. >> and and just waiting for someone for you. to say something that. >> but you could also enjoy saying. something frivolous. >> Yeah. Totally. Totally. And and I don't. like to give unsolicited advice also. So. if someone's not sitting with me as a. client, as someone that I'm guiding, as. someone that I have that kind of.

relationship with, I'm not just going to. suddenly tell them life advice or tell. them how to live for what? >> And and if I don't know you at all, sometimes I'll say to people like who. I've spent 10 seconds with and they say, "Can you give me some life-changing. advice?" I'm like, "The most. life-changing advice I can tell you is I. don't know you and you know yourself. better than I know you. So you're more. likely to find it within you because I I. don't have all the answers to. everything. I don't know everything. about everything and I don't believe. anyone does either. And so I I totally. resonate with it in my own way and I. think everyone who's listening whether. they're a public figure or not I know.

everyone feels this way. >> Yeah. Because I think I always feel like. people are seeking some sense of. guidance, validation, searching. That's. why you resort to spiritual forces, religious forces, learnings, books, discourses. And I'm like you know the. answer. If you really looked within, you. have the answer. Like I said right at. the top of our chart, instinct. Instinct. will tell you. You'll know this is the. right thing to know. You don't need. anyone to guide you. And of course, people must of course do what they need. to do in the moment. But really, do we.

do have the answers? We underestimate. ourselves. >> As a race, >> we all know what we really need to. satisfy our souls. >> Yeah. Yeah. You define yourself on. Instagram as a father first, then a. filmmaker. And I was very grateful to. meet Ruhin Yash last time I was here in. Mumbai. They were so sweet and so. wonderful and and playful and. >> I was wondering like. >> being a only child now being a single. parent. How is that and having beautiful. parents who you speak of so highly? How.

is that impacted your. uh your journey of being a father? >> It's very difficult. Firstly, I have to. say being a only child in a single. parent is a double whammy no one asks. for or wants but it just so happened. choices. The choice I made of being a. single parent is something but I didn't. choose to be an only child. That was my. parents choice. Uh but today when my mom. is not doing very well and she's keeping. poor health, it's really tough because. you're constantly torn and there's.

guilt. Every time I'm with my parents. and with my mom with my kids and joyous. I feel about my mom. When I'm with my. mom then I feel I'm denying my children. time. It's like you feel and I live with. my mom, you know, we live together. So. I'm very grateful that I can you know be. a part of her immediate day and take. care of her needs and requirements but. I'm not there a lot because I also run a. studio. So there's and a creative studio. you know you are the one point of. contact for so many things at a given. point of time. There are 18 questions.

people have on a daily basis and you. have to constantly answer. So it's all. right now. right now is uh as I said an. emotionally. uh tough time in a sense because my. mother's health and my kids at a certain. impressionable age they're eight and. then the studio everything is like. happening all at once everything. everywhere all at once and like it's um. it's a bit daunting uh but you know. again like I said what's the point of. like you know uh like feeling terrible.

you can because self-pity is also a spa. you you know, it makes you feel really. good temporarily, but it's not going to. like you'll need that treatment once in. a while, but you can't live in a spa, >> you know, to get out of there and pace. the world. So, I love visiting that spa. once in a while, feel terrible for. myself. I sit there in that spa, >> feel terrible for myself, and then know. that I have to get out there and and and. make it all happen. >> Yeah. >> You know, so yeah. So, right now, how.

does it make me feel? Makes me feel like. a bit overwhelmed. >> Yeah. How do you help your children. prepare for like you were saying at the. beginning of our conversation the. different life that they have as you had. and how have you what are some of the. things you have to think about talk. about connect with them communicate. about to help them prepare the in the. way that you didn't have. >> I didn't have a lot um so I was able to. um kind of find my feet my own way the. kids whether I like it or not are much.

more entitled and privileged than I ever. was. They have much more already. So, I. have to first kind of ground them. >> and root them. It's very tough. >> It's so hard. >> It's very tough. >> How do you do it? Because they're. already, you know, in a good car, in a. good home, >> on holiday, staying at the best hotels, traveling well, eating well. Nothing is. denied to them. So, and when you deny. it, then there's peer pressure, comparison with other kids who are. getting stuff and you're not giving it. to them. Then you combat that. uh I have.

no one to share that that. responsibility. So all I can do is teach. them goodness and kindness and. sociability like I can like be kind. I. always say so at least the moral value. system I can control or rather control. is a too strong a word. I can monitor or. I can look over I can make sure that. they're good kind souls. That's all that. I tell them to be. Be kind, helpful, share. Be warm. Meet people warmly. Respect your elders. Respect your. friends. you know, life lessons like.

that is what I'm really focusing on. because the privilege I cannot do. anything about. I can of course deny, make changes and tweaks, but they are. born to privilege and there's nothing I. can do about that. So, I've learned to. kind of accept that and mold them as. human beings because I hope that. eventually they're strong human beings, they will understand the power of. privilege. >> Yeah. >> And know how to handle it when they grow. older. >> I think you're right. I think that's the. right order. If you try and disrupt the. privilege, you can't. It will always be. there.

>> There's no point. It's like fighting a. battle that you know you won't win. But. if I tomorrow make them good, solid. human beings, they will not misuse their. privilege. >> Yeah. How is your feeling around the. word man and masculinity change from. those early days of being told you were. not man enough, you didn't run like a. man or walk like a man? How how do you. now define what it means to be a man and. masculinity? I mean like what is. machismo and masculinity and you know I. mean what does it even mean? It's a.

gender you were born with you have. nothing to do with that. You know you. have no reason to feel gloat about. something that you had no control over. You're a man. So you know what makes you. superior? What makes you feel superior? What makes you in control or command? You're just a human being as much as a a. woman is. That's the same thing there. is. I think that equality is such it all. this inequality rather comes from like. age-old you know society and patriarchy. and misogyny is all part of like is.

things that we just keep inheriting and. you got to some point of time just know. that it's not a privilege that you're a. man no there's not a privilege and how. dare you like think it is one and I. don't know if today I walk this way and. they're like walk like a man I'm like no. I'm walking like myself and I love. myself and I will walk the way I want Do. I will I refuse for people in my. household to tell my children don't wear. pink cuz girls don't boys don't wear. pink. My son wears pink. I will never. ever tell my girl don't cry. Like I tell.

my son don't cry like a girl because. these are things that have been told to. me. No, he can cry. He's allowed to cry. He can run here how he wants to. He can. wear what he wants to. She can do what. she wants to. They're both in taekwondo. class together. They both play football. Um they both sing and dance. They both. go to the hula hoop class. They both do. everything. That's how I want my kids to. be. They must be in, of course, my son. has some so-called conforming boyish, you know, like he does like and she does. he doesn't play with her dolls, but I've.

never encouraged. I never just bought. dolls for her. I buy two of everything. So, if I'm buying her a doll, I buy him. a doll and it's his choice whether he. wants to. But I'm not making any. differentiation because to me, they are. the same. I know of the price I had to. pay emotionally for being singled out. and I do not want to do that with my. children. Mhm. >> Walk like a human being. if you can and are able to. >> Yeah. >> Do not give yourself a gender because a. gender is not something that you had any. control over. I can't give you a gold. medal because your m as a man.

>> Your sperm chose to be one. You that's. all that's all that you know somebody's. sperm chose to be one. Sorry. Someone's. egg and sperm made you a man. You have. nothing to do with. >> like that. So I mean like I I have no I. don't ever think masculinity and. machismo and all that are things that I. didn't want to discuss because it's so. irrelevant to my think way of thinking. >> Yeah. Do you do you think that not that. you've tried to be this and not that you. claim to be this but that you being so. open about these conversations has.

actually pushed the culture along as. well. I've done my bit Jay to kind of. contribute to people of a certain. orientation um to the community um. through my cinema through some of my my. own thoughts and expressions in my own. way. I'm I thought that maybe if I talk. about it through my work it'll be. impressable and I hope it has. I've. never shied away from talking about. myself or what I represent and uh I will. always be the person I am. I've never.

conformed to society, so to say. Uh, I've always done what I've drawn to, dress the way I wanted to, express. myself through my my cinema, my fashion, myself, my thoughts, my ideologies. I've. never ever pretended to be somebody I. wasn't. >> I'm proud to be who I am, who I was born. to be. And I am I've told my life story. to the midpoint of my life, and I plan. to tell it further. And I want my kids. to have that same level of confidence. and jo that I have today being myself. I'm comfortable in my skin. I am not.

apologetic of who I am and I never will. be. >> How hard was it to get to that clarity? >> We live in in a society that is. judgmental and that is quick to kind of. pick point a finger at you. Um, you. know, if you're different from them, you. grow to kind of being the person you are. without conforming to tradition. I. always knew that marriage was not for. me. I always knew that, you know, I. didn't have to lie about who I was. I. just knew these things somehow. They.

just came to me naturally. And I think. it's to do with my progressive. parenting. It's to do with the fact that. my parents allowed me to who I was. They. never questioned anything. They never. told me don't wear that, don't do this, don't dance like that, don't walk like. that. No one told me anything. Unknowingly perhaps maybe they were very. progressive and very very. forwardthinking in their approach to me. I was privileged because of my parenting. not because of my my monetary. circumstance or my financial. circumstance at that time. It was I was. privileged to very progressive parents.

Not everybody around me has that. privilege. >> My request is always to parents that you. know please know that your child has to. be loved no matter what you think or you. believe in. Love is something that you. cannot not give. If they are of a. certain orientation, you have to accept. it and you have to allow them to be the. person they are because they choose to. be that and they want to be that and. give them the freedom and joy of being.

that. That's all. >> It's great advice. Great advice. I I. mirror it similarly. I think my parents. gave me the freedom when I told them I. wanted to be a monk. They weren't the. happiest. It's not the best news to get. as parents, but they never blocked me. They never stopped me when I told them I. wanted to leave the mon monastery. They. never blocked me. They never stopped me. Same as when I said I'm going to move to. New York and then later on to LA. Again, I think unknowingly my parents were very. progressive as well. >> And that has been such a gift in my life.

because even if uncles and aunts and. society and people around us were. judging those decisions or questioning. them. >> because they were not they were not. positive about it but they weren't. negative about it. They were neutral. about it and that created such a freedom. for me to become who I wanted to be and. not become who they wanted me to be. And. my father was somewhat aloof in my early. years too and that was so useful. A lot. of people you know and and it's fair. when people feel like their parents.

weren't around. I think my father not. being around allowed me to become the. man I wanted to be and choose the male. role models that I wanted to have. >> So Karanjora, you have been so kind and. gracious with your time. Thank you so. much. Uh we end every interview of on. purpose with a final five. These. questions have to be answered in one. word to one sentence maximum and I will. break those rules and I'm sure you will. too. Uh but Karan Jorah these are your. final five. The first question is what. is the best advice you've ever heard or. received. >> My father people need people.

>> That's the three words if I have to. expand on it. Uh he says that if you're. not there for people they won't be there. for you. M. >> so you know you just need people need. people. >> that's what he always told me. >> yeah and it's okay to ask. >> what is equal in Hindi it's called. dunyari. >> you know so I live by that you be there. for people they'll be there for you. >> yeah and it's okay to ask for help as. well when you are helping others. naturally second question what is the. worst advice you've ever heard or. received. >> to listen to others.

>> question number three you've been. hosting one of the most incredible talk. shows I think it's 20 season now. >> 20 years unbelievable Uh what's your. favorite question to ask people? >> Uh it's also got me into a lot of. trouble when it's not my favorite. question actually. Uh I used to do these. comparisons which I I think is incorrect. and I won't do it again because why. compare one to the other and I used to. always say oh Ranir or Anir and I'm like. how stupid this is not like like idiotic. and I think that's not something but my. favorite question I I I think u.

on that show uh it's not our kind of. chat which is evolved and you know so. intense it's so surface that that show. that's a lot of fun it's fun it's like. guilty pleasure. So I think whenever I do that show the. entire show the vibe is like there's no. favorite question. It's just the vibe is. like it's like downtime like downtime. chat talking about things that have no. relevance or absolutely are immaterial.

to your way of being but it's just like. you've taken one hour to have a great. time and you want to give an audience. great time watching it. So it's like. yeah that whole show is like one big. great question. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I've I've enjoyed watching many many. episodes. Uh, question number four. Uh, what's something that you wish people. knew about you that maybe they don't? >> Well, they think what they know about. me. They. >> Something you wish people knew. >> that I can be sexy. >> Oh, okay. Now, people know that. No, >> I don't think so.

>> Me and you talk about fashion. >> I think I think No, not not not. outwardly. >> Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. I come across a little I think a. little like vanilla, which I'm not. >> Oh, interesting. You think you come. across vanilla? >> I do. I do. Why is that? >> I don't know. I come across. >> very vanilla, I think, to people, but. I'm not. >> Okay. >> Not when the door shuts. >> Okay. Any anything more? No. >> This has turned into a coffee with Karan. at this. >> Yeah. I'm suddenly like, why am I. discussing my sex life? >> Completely transformed. >> No, it's just that I'm not vanilla.

There is some chocolate sauce there. >> Okay. I love it. Great. Uh, fifth and. final question. We ask this to every. guest who's ever been on the show. If. you could create one law that everyone. in the world had to follow, what would. it be? >> Equality. in every which way. Pay parity in every which way. >> Any expansion or. >> um I I I I get like, you know, I don't. get it actually sometimes, you know, I. feel like I know and I've been there.

where I've seen like a man and a woman. do the same thing and the man get more. money for it. It doesn't make any sense. to me, >> you know. So, I wish that that that. equal pay was something that really was. a law. Like, if there are two people. doing the exact same job, why is. sometimes the man given more money for. what joy? There's no logical. They both. have the same educational. qualifications, same work experience, and yet the man will get more. I I wish. and desire for pay parity in the world. >> And how does that work in the film.

industry? >> It's the same thing. It's like the same. thing. Like what is in the film industry. is not different from the rest of the. world. It's same everywhere. >> Mhm. >> From a higher behind like at a coffee. shop to like right up there to a. corporate force to. the world of politics to anywhere films, entertainment, everywhere there is that. difference and I wish for it to kind of. be eroded. >> Right. Karanjora, thank you so much for. joining me. I'm so grateful. I felt like.

I learned so much about you today. I. genuinely feel you have so many lessons. to teach. You're a. >> you've actually in the since the time I. met you become one of my favorite. storytellers in person. You're always on. screen, but I think you tell great. stories. You have so much attention to. detail. And today I learned about the. philosophical and sexy side of you too. And so I'm very grateful for your time. >> I'm glad I could put that out. Maybe. there'll be some takers right after. this. I'm waiting. I'll let you know Jay. if there's any kind there's any positive. ramification to this as in America. Uh I.

go there often enough. Yes. So, I hope. that there is some positive result to. that last declaration of mine. >> I hope that our next dinner in LA that. you're giving me some is fruitful. >> It was it was lovely to see you and. thank you for inviting me. >> Thank you so much, Karen. >> Thank you. If this is the year that. you're trying to get creative, you're. trying to build more, I need you to. listen to this episode with Rick Rubin. on how to break into your most creative. self, how to use unconventional methods.

that lead to success, and the secret to. genuinely loving what you do. If you're. trying to find your passion and your. lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one. for you. >> Just because I like it, that doesn't. give it any value. Like, as an artist, if you like it, that's all of the value. That's the success comes when you say, "I like this enough for other people to. see. [Music].