#1 NEUROSCIENTIST: This Dangerous Habit is DESTROYING Your MEMORY (Here’s How To Fix It FAST)

Whether you end up having Alzheimer's, it begins with like where did I put my. keys? We can't tell you which one's. going to go to 10 years later that adult. says I can't find my way home. Since we. don't have that answer, everybody should. do things to prevent memory loss. >> Neurosurgeon. >> and a neurobiologist, >> Dr. Ruland. >> Why is it that we feel we can't remember. anything anymore? >> One of the most common questions people. ask is when they start forgetting like. where the keys are at and they they say, "Is this Alzheimer's? Does this need to. be fixed? Is this natural?

>> What are we doing every day that's. distracting and disrupting our working. memory? >> Too much juggling and multitasking has. its own issues. You want to get away. from your thought hijacking your body? >> Why do we replay negative memories? Why. is it so easy? >> So, an emotional imprint on a memory. requires no focus and attention. So. emotional imprinting of a memory and. trauma makes it sometimes too easy to. remember and sometimes it pops up.

without you even wanting to. When you're. able to revisit a memory in a controlled. environment, you can dampen your. emotional stamp onto that memory. You. don't forget the memory. You just. disassociate the emotional feelings, the. trauma, the fear, the physical reaction. For anyone concerned that their family. member may have early dementia or. Alzheimer's, what should they be looking. out for and how can they help that. person? >> The number one health and wellness. podcast,

>> J Shetty. >> J Shetty, >> the one, the only J Shetty. >> Hey everyone, welcome back to OnPurpose, the place you come to listen, learn, and. grow. Today's guest is someone that we. had on last year and you absolutely. loved the episode. The response was. incredible. We had to have him back on. It is none other than Dr. Raul Jandial, a renowned neurosurgeon, neuroscientist. and author. Dr. Jandial is known for his. expertise in brain surgery particularly.

in areas related to brain tumors, epilepsy and other brain disorders. Dr. Dr. Jandelle is also a prominent public. speaker and educator, frequently sharing. insights into the brain's complexity and. health. His work combines clinical. practice with research aiming to deepen. our understanding of the brain and. improve treatments for neurological. diseases. Please welcome back Dr. R. Johnil. It's great to have you back. >> I'm stoked to be back, my man. >> Yeah, people loved that episode and the.

response was so great that we were like, we have to get you back on for part two. I mean, it was hard to tell for me. because, you know, we're here and it's. intimate. I'm feeling relaxed and I can. communicate, but then it's going out to. so many people. Whereas, if you do a, you know, live television or you do an. audience event, you can feel that energy. like a sporting event. But, >> I'm thrilled to be back, man. And I'm. I'm ready to just just go off the top. and just vibe. >> I love it, man. I love it. I wanted to. dive in because I know you've been. talking a lot about memory, and that's. been something you've been studying.

quite deeply recently. Why is it that we feel we can't remember. anything anymore? >> So that was the most common question I. would get from my patients. So I I'm a. brain surgeon. I've taken care of. several thousand patients with surgery. and the interaction before and after. surgery and then I've met thousands. I. was talking to your team like you know. not everybody you see need surgery or. benefits from surgery or chooses. surgery. So there's just a lot of human. interaction. I've had thousands of. patients. I'm 52. I've been doing this. since I was 25. And one of the most.

common questions people ask when they. start to think about maybe my brain. isn't going to be perfect forever is. when they start forgetting like where. the keys are at or they stop remembering. things and they they say is this. Alzheimer's? Does this need to be fixed? Is this natural? So that the question. about memory is fundamental and I I'll. zoom out for a little bit. People who. don't have memory of who they are are. completely lost every day. They have to. invent themselves new. So it's an. essential feature that one type of. memory called autobiographical memory.

It stitches our memories of our. childhood lifetime experiences and it. gives us a sense of identity, meaning. purpose like I have been the one in this. vehicle of life and it those experiences. are connected right so memory is. essential in that way for identity. On a. more practical level memory is not one. word. So like there's a lot of types of. memory and I think that's where today I. want to just take it one step deeper. like I don't have all the answers but. when I'm communicating with patients if.

I can take it one step deeper in the. explanation and they go aha I get it. then they're more likely to implement. the guidance uh they choose there are. many types of memory memory is not one. word so let's take one that we rarely. lose procedural memory once you learn. how to ride a bike once you learn how to. like you know tie your shoelaces. patients of mine that have Alzheimer's. or even brain injury or just get 80s and. 90s, they still remember that. Procedural memory is not the one we need. to be thinking about. Then there's.

another type of memory called semantic. memory. That's facts. I I don't want to. remember my phone number anymore, man. I. got facts on my phone. I I want to. connect the dots. So those kind of. things aren't as important. Then there's. the a third type you can call episodic. memory. It's a fancy word for episodes. Again, like this happened in my life. this episode. Now, that's important. Unfortunately, that type of memory is. what's lost with dementia, with aging, and and people worry about that. Like,

does this mean I'm aging normally or is. this the onset of Alzheimer's? We don't. have that answer. So, whether you end up. having Alzheimer's or whether you just. have age appropriate subtle loss of. memory, it begins with like, where did I. put my keys? Like, it all begins that way. We can't. tell you which one's going to go to 10. years later that adult says, "I can't. find my way home." So that concept is so. tricky that since we don't have that. answer, I believe everybody should do.

things to prevent memory loss because. you don't because if you go down the. Alzheimer's path or just a normal. cognitive decline, the guidance is still. the same. ABC a eat a certain way, think. a certain way, move a certain way. The. guidance ABC whether you're about to get. Alzheimer's, don't know if you're about. to have Alzheimer's or normal aging or. have been diagnosed with Alzheimer's, the guidance is the same. And that. speaks to how the brain and mind works. >> How bad is it that we can't remember.

what we had for dinner last night? >> Not a big deal at all. >> Not a big deal at all. >> Not a big deal at all. So those glitches. are age appropriate. Uh that happens in. our 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s as we get less. young. I had had a patient a long time. ago. She was 90 something. I said, "Well, you're older." She looked at me. with the just a scowl. She was like, "Older? I'm less young." So since that. day, as less young. So as we get less. young, that's natural. So. >> why? What's happening?

>> Well, the answer is is not clear because. we don't study that. What we do study is. when it starts with age appropriate sort. of subtle memory loss. And if you zoom. out, we're our whole our knees age, our. hearts age, our our minds age. That's. not necessarily a disease. Uh but it's. age appropriate versus Alzheimer's. Alzheimer's is and dementia and like. what Bruce Willis has frontalto temporal. dementia. There's a lot of different. types of dementia. Maybe we should just. call it dementia is that it starts with.

a little bit of memory loss. That's just. normal aging, but then it it. accelerates. And what people think is. like, oh, they can't remember things. It's more than that. They can't remember. their autobiographical memory. They. can't remember who they are because they. don't remember their stories from their. childhood. Then they start forgetting. who the loved ones are and why their. loved ones. Autobiographical memory. Then the the injury goes even deeper and. it affects their emotional regulation. Like that's a big topic I love. I wrote. about a long time ago. Like the ability.

to say, "I'm angry, but that's not how I. want to feel right now. That's not how I. want to act right now." They lose. emotional regulation. So for caregivers, it's very challenging. It's like you. don't remember me, I'm your child. And. then on top of that, you're angry with. me all the time. It's a it's an intense. experience of course for the patient, for the person. I wouldn't say why do. can we can we never age in a way that's. super memory all the way. Let me jump. I'm going to get to that. I'm not sure.

we want perfect memory that's about. facts, that's about procedures. The area. the the last type of memory that I. didn't mention is called working memory. This is this is the memory I want. Of. course, I want autobiographical memory. I'm Rahul. I'm this. I'm that. Facts are. on my phone. I think I'll be able to, you know, handle a bike and and laces. for a while. So, let's get down to if. you want to level up. So the training. for Alzheimer's and dementia, the. training for me, the training for NFL.

quarterbacks, four moving receivers, analysis, judgment, timing, that's. called working memory. Too much. juggling, multitasking has its own. issues. But working memory is it is the. skill I want. I want to be able to run. six governmental departments. I want to. be able to manage a hospital with 16. patients on ventilators when I was 28. I. want to manage talking to you and having. a bunch of ideas popping in the back and. which one do I bring right that's called.

working memory and there is guidance and. training for that there is brain. training for that type of memory so you. asked me early like what's memory so now. we've broken it out into several types. >> and the one the one we want is. short-term. >> juggling a lot of plates a lot of. thoughts in the sky and that's where. creativity comes from you're looking at. things you're working memories pulling. back imagin ation. Working memory can be. trained. Working memory is the digital. therapeutic for Alzheimer's. Working.

memory is like the people I look up to. They're the ones that do things the. best. Cuz it's not just procedurally. Like I'm looking at six monitors and. able to operate. It's the fact that I. have a lot of thoughts in my head and my. working memory is keeping them all. >> immediately accessible. I don't have to. like go, uh, where's that? What was. that? No, I've got like eight or nine. things I want to talk to you about. my. working memory is keeping them afloat, let allowing me to extract them for you. >> Yeah. For anyone who's listening right. now and they're concerned that their.

family member may have early dementia or. Alzheimer's, that direction, what should. they be looking out for and how can they. help that person? The story is when we. when humans passed away in our 30s and. 40s, it was sort of like the heart that. wore out and then we lived longer and we. addressed heart disease main. You know, as as we live longer and longer, it's. the brain that's starting to wear out. And if you suspect that your family. member is having memory issues, the.

greatest challenge will be, and I don't. mean this lightly, is that that person. doesn't remember what they don't. remember. They're not thinking, I I. forgot that because they don't remember. that. It's the loved ones that see it. So, if you see that, you have to invite. them and say, look, you know, I'm. noticing a few different things. in our next general visit to the doctor. Can we maybe mention it to them? And. they'll do a neurocognitive test. It's. straightforward. Draw this circle.

backwards. And they do like those that. like a little test. It's casual, but. they can track it. and say, "Hey, can we. do this every year?" And you track that. test every year. And when when you see. that you're drawing the clock and you're. missing numbers, even the person with. dementia will say, "Yeah, you know, something's changing." But if you try to. persuade somebody who can't remember, hey, you're not remembering, can you you. could see how that could just not work, right? So, you want to get them to. somebody early and what the physician. will do is take a look at that and then.

say, "Hey, do you have genetic history?". So certain. almost all dementia is not genetic but. there are some genetic issues that you. want to know about and then this is the. best part whether it's age appropriate. cognitive decline of certain memory not. working memory the one we're fight I'm. fighting for or it's early onset. Alzheimer's that we can't identify the. interventions are the same keep the. brain arteries open eat a certain type. of food the mind diet and continue to.

challenge. the brain puzzles, socializing, networking, taking a different route. home, using your left hand, learning a. new language. You have to learn the new. language. You just have to try. You. might only get like three words. You're. like, "Hey, this language thing is not. working." But it's the those those three. steps are are there is it that's the. established thing. And I think that way. that's empowering to the patient, to the. families, and it's not like pill and.

medicine dependent because frankly there. ain't good medicine for it. >> really. >> Yeah. This is not a there are not great. treatments for Alzheimer's. They're out. there. People can look at them. They're. for early cognitive decline. But when you even if you were to take. those medicines, you still got to do the. other things. You got to walk to keep. your brain arteries open. You got to. irrigate the flesh. You got to eat a. mind diet which is fatty fish or if. you're vegan or plant-based or you know. they have that and then you got to like. you have to do those brain training and.

challenge your working memory. The same. thing with somebody with Alzheimer's. about to get Alzheimer's worried about. Alzheimer's and you and me it's the same. recipe. >> Let's break down the recipe for people. who are listening right now so that we. can get into the details of those three. steps. >> Like you know uh the brain is flesh. I. remember the first time I saw it when I. was 26 uh and they opened the skull and. I was like watching the professors and I. was like what is this even possible and. it gets 20% of the blood flow from your.

heart with with these four raging. arteries that come up and it's like 3 lb. or 5 kg or whatever it is that 3 4 lb. organ gets 20% of our blood flow. That. is a energy hog. And you think it's and. then it's white. It's oolescent. It's. shimmering under the operating room. lights. I mean, it's not gray matter. Gray matter is when they when the. patients passed away and they've like. for No, no. And it's heat. With every. breath, it heaves a little bit. It's got. fluid chambers on it. I mean, it's like.

a it's the way to imagine it is like 100. billionish jellyfish in a in an. aquarium, but there's fluid in there and. they're shooting electricity and. chemicals at it. You mentioned something. about when I said sleep entry and you. said versus falling asleep language is. important for our concepts. That's what. I try to do before I came on today was. like how do I describe this in a way. where it's not like the brain I say the. same thing. I'm not I'm not throwing. shade on anybody but take your. imagination away. >> that it's a 100red billion jellyfish. packed together in clusters floating in.

an aquarium inside our skull. Our brain. doesn't sit on the inside of our skull. It's it's buoyant and it's spraying. electricity and it's not in left and. right directions. It's like aurora. borealis or a school of birds that rolls. back onto each other, right? It's a. there's an electrical flow that's. shivering through those through those. jellyfish, right? Like that's how you. got to imagine it. So when you look at. it, the first thing you need to know is. those four arteries that come and feed. this garden, right? And the neurons are.

like roses. You you get what you get. You're not really growing neurons. There's a mild exception with stem. cells. And then there's all the. supporting cells, what I call like. shrubs, like aststerytes. Like you want. to keep that garden irrigated. You. sprinkle the lawn, right? You got to. sprinkle blood to that flesh because. that activity in those neurons is. relying on the glucose coming up. >> And that glucose is the fuel to keep. those little molecular jellyfish alive. So people say, "Well, what do what do I. do to keep my brain sharp?" Well, keep.

those arteries open. How do you keep. those arteries open? You know that. take. the lipore, walk, exercise. That's not. just to look good. It's to keep the main. arteries and all those fine branching. arteries going into those crevices. open. Because if you start losing swaths. of brain tissue, you're going to have. issues. Not always, but that's the first. thing is. heart health is also brain health. That's the easiest thing. Okay. Number. two is what you eat. Not not today or.

tomorrow, but over a decade. And this is. well established. This isn't like one. study. Globally, the Mediterranean diet, which is mostly plants, fatty fish, beans, nuts, those people, if you just. look at like thousands and thousands. over a decade or two, they have lower. rates of dementia. And that's the only. difference that they're having. That's. the recommendation we give to people. So, you say, "Well, why does that what. kind of that kind of diet? Why does that. work?" Hey, look, I I'm love I have a.

burger. We're going to love it. I mean, it's not the indulgences. It's that. baseline habit with food. >> It's the 80%. >> Those neurons, the neurons, if you think. of it as a jellyfish with all these. tentacles, 10, you know, the rough. numbers, 10,000, 100, whatever. But the. electrical signals that flow between our. neurons, they're wrapped with something, insulation. The insulation lets the. electricity fire faster. That insulation. is literally made of omega-3 fat. The. brain is fatty. the fat that the brain. uses to keep insulated comes from fatty.

fish and those kind of things. So, there's a reason to eat that way. And. the last thing we've been talking about. all, you know, all morning is focusing. on tension on the on your next level up, not somebody else's, >> right? Cuz if I told you, hey, you want. bigger biceps, we'd say we need, but. this is a thinking flesh. >> This is a feeling flesh. This is an. interconnected flesh. So, vibe, think, read, whatever that is for you. But the. combination of those three things is.

well established and there is no. shortcut. The concerning shift is. certain cancers breast and colon in. particular are. if on average they popped up at a. certain age that curve for is shifting. earlier and in particular for women. I. want to do this but I also want to do. this. I want to have this piece of bacon. but I want to you know I don't want to. eat it. That's where we are at our most. vulnerable and best. You know, that's. where we're human. And rather than.

feeling frustrated by those wants that. you can't always pursue the way you. really choose to inside your mind, like. I want to do this, but I don't get. there. My mind is ready to do it, but my. behavior doesn't reflect that. That. that's called your internal referee. We. need more reduction of what I call. barriers to care, right? It's it's in. our field. There are medicines and. screening and treatment that people. don't even know about. People don't even. get to. There's a language barrier. Maybe somebody can't afford the bus. So, as I work in my laboratory to make new.

medicine, we got to make sure the. medicine and the and the care we got. gets to everybody. I love the way you. broken down the different memories. I. had no idea that there were so many. different words for memory. And I love. that because it helps us really. compartmentalize how we think about this. really big topic. But when I'm listening. to you, I'm wondering what are we doing. every day that's distracting and. disrupting our working memory. >> So what I try to do is I try to take my. patient stories. I try to look at the. neurons in a petri dish. I read a lot. I.

read a lot of random things and and I. try to think about how to answer that. What's the right How do you thread the. needle between juggling. enough to where you're holding on to and. cultivating your working memory or. you're just like just numb by this like. blitz of of things coming at you. >> I think it's very individual. I would. say it's different for children because. as we discussed last time, we're.

learning to move and walk and the brain. is learning to have a sense of self. there's a psychological cultivation that. mirrors our physical cultivation. You don't want to flood that mind with. too much. I'll let others comment on at. which age they should be on social media. or not. But the concept I think we can. all agree on based on science and this. conversation is in the developing mind. It doesn't have the filter and it. doesn't have the maturity of that.

working memory. You don't want a kid if. I raise three sons. they're 19, 20, and. and 23. So, I'm talking from the. perspective of a parent, I always try to. see where are they at and then add one. more thing. But sometimes when I see. families with their patients in the. waiting room, I mean, the kids just look. down at their phones for like a 100. hours, you know? It's like you look at. their, you know, their time they've been. on there and you ask them, "How long you. been on?" They're like, "Oh, a lot of,". you know, they just, it's just, it feels.

excessive for that age. And then it's. also the content at the later age of. life. You want certain brain training. games for elderly. They have shown like. it's FDA approved. That means you. brought a lot of evidence in it. It's. not just one study. I'm not throwing. shade on anybody, but the game is it's a. racer game, right? Like grandma's like. racing a car and there's distractions. coming up and she has to avoid them. Same thing for NFL quarterbacks. I think.

it was uh Atlanta, he's he's a. broadcaster now. He's a quarterback. They had a game where they're looking at. something, but different lights are. popping up and they have to identify. them in their peripheral vision. That. speed of processing, that working memory. is an important skill. The question is. when are you stunting his development. and when are you cultivating? I think. it's age specific. I think it's. individual specific. I think when we. know when we're just doing something to. shut down versus doing it as training. So that portal can be both. It can mess. you up. It can hold you back. But if you.

have the right digital diet, man, it can. open up the world for you. So, I think. that's the way I look at it. >> Yeah. I always think about it like an. elastic band. And it's this idea that an. elastic band is useless if it's not. being stretched. But at the same time, there's a point at which it will snap. >> Yeah. And I've seen that with my own. memory or my ability, my working memory. as you describe it, where I used to. think I was doing everything I could and. then I stretched and I was like, "Oh,

wow. I could do more than I believe.". And then I stretched and then I. stretched and I started to realize that. my capacity and capability was far. larger than I ever imagined. >> And you were developing it with each. stress. >> Exactly. But if I accepted where I was. that, oh, this is the most I can do. Actually, I would never have known. And. you're saying that in some ways that's. unhealthy. >> Unhealthy that you. >> you don't stretch and challenge like you. were saying with your kids, you're. always adding one more. >> Somebody flies to space, they don't have. gravitational force, they come back, their bones are brittle. You need.

certain amount of stress at the bone at. the osteocite level like physiologically. we need gravity. So some stress makes us. grow. Too much stress fractures that. bone. Okay. Take that physiologic. concept and apply that same to the mind. Now what I would say is that elastic. band I love that and if you leave it. idle and that elastic band gets dry then. the stretching is too late that and then. the last thing I would add to that is. when my sons and others they play video. games is a very wellstudied thing. If.

you give them multiple levels they'll. compete to level up but if you just. present them the fifth level they'll. just say nah that's too hard and if you. make it too easy that won't hold their. attention. So the nuance is exactly is. to find where I'm where am I at not that. person's advice not that person's life. but from everything that I've taken in. where am I at where the appropriate next. stress challenge stretch of the rubber. band next level on the video game is. there that's enticing enough achievable.

with some effort and then I get there. and then I get there and then I get. there and then I get knocked down. >> because life is is going to knock you. down. That's uh part of its struggle and its. beauty. And then you might find yourself. not at those same levels, not with those. same coping mechanisms, but remembering. that it's an incremental crawl out of. that ditch that your mind can fall into. I've seen it in my cancer patients. They're heroes. And so if the lesson. there is that our working memory, our.

memory, our m everything from bones to. biology to trees, we need stress and. pressure. It's a thermostat. Stress. isn't all bad. Stress isn't all good. And it's individual. Stress for you. might be different than stress for me. In the hospital, there are stresses that. certain friends of mine can handle. That's a massive stress. You're. operating in the middle of the night. You you're handling 15 patients. For. them, they're right at that. For other.

people, that might inundate them, and. that's not appropriate. So, it has to be. an individual thing. But biologically, physiologically, psychologically, I. think knowing thyself is to know what's. that next challenge for me that's. enticing, that's achievable with effort, that's not too easy, so I don't, you. know, give a damn. >> Yeah. >> Or just there's no way I can get there, so I'm not even going to try. >> Yeah. There's a brilliant book called. Flow State, uh, by Mihi Chiken, Mihi, if. I'm saying his surname right, that. explains this so brilliantly. He talks.

about the need for having your skills. meet your challenge. And so he talks. about this idea that either what most of. us experience is our challenge is above. our skills. So we get frustrated, right? We get really disappointed. You might. even get depressed because your. challenge is so high and your skills are. so low. Or you have the opposite where. your skills are really high but your. challenge is low. Now you're bored. Now. you're disconnected. Now you're. disengaged because you can practically. do everything with ease. And so he talks. about flow state which is what we see.

athletes, musicians, singers, these. people are in their moments or in the. zone is when their experiences and their. skills meet their challenge. And while. we're talking about this, the part that. I was thinking about is why do we get so. stressed when we can't remember. something, right? When we're like, "Oh. man, I wanted to tell you about that. movie and oh, I want to tell you about. that. Oh, what was that actor's name? Oh. gosh. I I I you know, we get so. frustrated when we're we almost feel. that glitch.

>> I think that's because we assume that. we're slowing down or shutting down. And. what I'm trying to tell people is that. memory uh outsource that to your phone. There are people who forget their keys, forget other people's names. That's. appropriate as we get less young. But. older people can still have high working. memory. Fight for working memory and. stay with that. Back to the flow state. I love that, man. I mean, I wrote about. it a little bit. I'm familiar with the. book. And I think the insight that he. provided.

is that one, it's individual. You can be in a flow state driving. You. could be in a flow state sewing. You can. be a flow state holding your kid. It's. not only for highlevel people. I think. you know as described that it's again. individual. It's personal. But it takes. knowing not what other people's. ambitions and desires are, not what. other people's goals are. It takes. knowing like this is something I want to. get better at. This is something I want. to cultivate myself. I think that's what.

I liked about his book was that it. wasn't about the skill. It was at your. skill level. It's not like brain. surgeons are in flow state, athletes are. in flow state. He he studied them to. understand that. The second thing that I. liked about it often there's a physical. component and a thinking component. And. I love that because there have been. times. where I don't know I mean people think. like people think like brain surgery is. like fixing a car. You do these 20. steps. It's every tissue every cancer is.

reverse sculpting. There's at some point. you have to just you have to let the. maneuvers go where like it's it's a. dance when I've seen it done with. finesse at the highest level. And in. those occasions where I'm feeling that, I just remember feeling so good about. what was happening without every thought. being engineered and structured. Like. there was a I felt proud that there was. a skill being released. And I think. that's a flow state for me during.

surgery. Sometimes when I grew up in LA, so when the freeways are open, I took a. long fast drive through all the open. roads. I had my white coat. But I was, you know, I'm a surgeon, so we're. allowed to be on there. But for driving. some people, they just describe it is. again, it's both paying attention. externally and then doing something. physically. I think the combination the. physical movement, physical activity, I. think should not be underestimated. Let. me give you a specific example. the.

overlap of of wanting and desire. those circuits when you talk about flow. state it's not just a psychological. thing the most times I felt that it's a. mindbody thing. >> mhm what's the connection between you. were mentioning their focus and. attention. >> what's the connection with memory. because I think a lot of us are trying. to be more present. >> we see it as valuable when we meet. someone you forget their name instantly. you're right the facts will be there but. there's a part of us that feel like. we're almost looking through people.

We're not really there. How much does. focus and attention actually impact. memory or are they not connected? >> You know, that's a good question. I. don't think I have a specific answer. about that. I haven't read about that. But I will tell I will tell you that. memory to retrieve it is a. reconstruction. There's no rolodex or a. filing cabinet. You pull it out. Memory. is built. And. >> what do you mean by that? >> Let's think of of the brain as an. ecosystem, right? the the general. electricity that you can record with.

electric are like an atmosphere. Then we. have the flesh, the loes, we can talk. about that. Then we have networks and. circuits like things that work in. ensembles. They go up and down together. They they never turn off. It's always. like 5149. There's no part of the brain. that shuts off. And then there's. individual neurons. You can think of. them as like each tree in a forest. When. we talk about memory, it is not a filing. cabinet. It's a hub. And so it pulls. like I want to remember something. The.

easiest way for me to remember something. and sometimes unavoidable like you can't. even forget it is when the emotional. structures and and regions of your brain. have put a stamp on it. So emotional. imprinting of a memory and trauma makes. it sometimes too easy to remember and. sometimes it pops up without you even. wanting to. Right? So that's one type of. focus attention emotional stamping. I. don't am Amydala is not posit is not. negative stamping. It's just emotional. stamping both positive and negative. So.

an emotional imprint on a memory. requires no focus and attention. It's. just it's just churning back there. It's. activated. A smell can pop it open. You. don't want to think about it and it's. coming up. I think we all know that, right? Like. >> things we don't want to think about, feelings we don't have, memories of the. past blended with imagination. So you. don't require attention and focus for. some types of memory. Usually the ones. with emotional stamps, we can get into. trauma and that sort of thing.

>> Yeah. >> For the. >> for the rest of it, if we're engaging. people, then on the other side is. there's all this like you don't I want. to remember all of this. It's not really. relevant, right? It's a habit. You're. driving, you make that exit. There's a. me there's a procedural memory. I don't. want to think about like tying my. shoelace. So somewhere in between is the. attention to I should remember this. I. want to remember this. So memories. emotionally imprinted. Memories you.

don't need. You're just driving on the. freeway. And in between the emotional. memory is easy. The attention and focus. to memory is hard because it's a. decremental process. Meaning bandwidth. is a casual word but it takes effort. The emotional thing. Oh, it just strikes. you. the other one you don't want. So, attention and focus requires effort. And. so, when you have people you're talking. to, you want to remember something or. you want to remember uh you know them or. their names. That attention and focus is.

something you have to dial up. >> Yeah. >> And there's a couple ways to dial it up. Removing distractions. When you talk to. LeBron James, it's like it's about not. thinking about it. There's one way is to. remove distractions or increase. attention. And that's individual focus. is if you haven't slept, your energy. towards attention is less. It's. decremental. They call it decremental. vigilance. Like if you're on guard in a. military situation, like after a certain. amount of hours or a long surgery or a.

long shift to the hospital, it fades. If. you're in the middle, you look, I want. to have more focus and attention to. this. The natural answer is lessen the. distraction, be rested, and you know, make it a priority. But that's within. each of our minds based on what we're. looking at. >> So, when you just told me before we. started that you're doing brain surgery. at 3:00 a.m. today, how do you maintain. a level of attention? Obviously, there's. no distractions. >> Oh, there tons of distractions. People.

are walking around, things are going. wrong, beats are going off. You got to. tell somebody, "Hey, no music today.". >> So, walk me through that. How are you. that focused with something that. sensitive in that moment? How do you. prepare for that type of surgery? >> So the skill, the cultivation is to know. when this task can be performed casually. going to the cafeteria talking to a. patient. Your emotional intensity is. there, but you you learn to dial up and. dial down as the situation requires.

It's the fancy word is ecological. validity. Like you got you got a game. plan, but it's got to be tested. And so. that long training and those long hours. was partly because they needed labor, partly because, you know, they justified. it like if you go work in a small town. and you do an operation, the patient has. to go back because something went wrong. You can't call somebody else. You got to. run it. You got to handle it. And so. what you learn is so for example, the. the operation went late last night. That's not a big deal to me because.

before that I wasn't trying to wear. myself out with drama with somebody, you. know, wearing myself out with like. looking at things that were distract. I. went into uh sort of what I call a zen. mode to prevent distractions. You know, I go to zen mode before and it's not. like you can tell. And then I save that. tension and focus because I know my. vigilance is detrimental. It fades. And. then we get the patient set up and we do. all of that. I'm still just whatever, you know, and until there's like a.

there's a physical cue for me and then. it lifts. There's attention and focus. and then there's the craft and then. there's a release and then after that. there's, you know, there's a crash and. then I make the decision I'm going to. Uber home or drive home. You know, I. know the freeway so I drove home. But. that goes back to your original question. is realize attention and focus for. memory for anything is a resource. Some. things will grab your attention. some. things don't warrant your attention. It's it's it's that middle zone, right? That's what we're trying to finesse at. an individual level, uh, you know, and a.

collective level. >> Well, I I I appreciate what you're. saying because I remember reading about. it in a book by Daniel Levton called the. organized mind, and he talked about this. idea of how when Warren Buffett is. deciding where to invest, he takes milk. and cookies, rents an apartment in New. York City, and lives in that apartment. for 5 days. So basically he's doing very. little when it comes to his daily. requirements of food. He's cleared out. his space. So he's in a new environment. that's empty and then he's sitting there.

making decisions. And he talked about. how this was his way of removing. decision fatigue. This idea that when. we're making lots of insignificant. decisions in the morning when we wake. up, by the time it comes to a big. decision at the end of the day, the. middle of the day, we have no energy. left to make it. So most of us are. stressing out going, "What do I eat. today? What do I wear today? Which route. do I take to work today? Oh my gosh, what am I going to say to that person. today? Now, by the time you get into the. office, you've already made so many. insignificant decisions that you're.

exhausted and now you can't dial it up. when you actually need it. >> because it's limited and is and is. detrimental over time. I love that. What. I would say is again, you have to know. yourself a little bit. Like that's. coming. And it could be I'm about to. have a hot conversation with my lover. and this is not this is a tense. situation. I don't want to walk in that. with my mind already in a fuss. I got a. big case. It's going late. There was an. emergency before. I'm going to start. this at 11:00. It needs to go tonight.

That's not when I'm trying to get into a. fuss. I don't know what the example will. be for your viewers and other people, but if everybody can walk away with like. your attention and focus or wherever. level and stage you're at is uh. precious, is limited. You want to control your. environment. You don't want to talk to. certain people. Maybe you do want to. talk to certain people. Maybe you want. to listen to certain music. Maybe you. don't want to listen to those examples. are all around us. Athletes walking in. with their bows, headphones on, they're. doing the same thing. But we can explain. it with neuroscience that attention is.

detrimental. You cannot maintain. >> sustained external focus. So in those. 40hour shifts, I never did a 40hour. operation. >> And I just learned to work with my. attention and focus. That was the real. skill that I learned. And then Buffett, you know, he's also changing his. physical environment. Yeah, >> I do that too. Like I'm going to London. next next week and I'm just People are. like, "Oh, you like to stay in the same. place." Like, no, I'm coming here to. like, oh, get lost. H, my phone's not. working. Look at this. Where's it? Like, I I need to change physical environment.

to have new thoughts cuz I'm working on. something in my mind. And so, I think. part maybe part of what he does is is. not just to get rid of the fuss and to. avoid uh decision fatigue or decremental. vigilance because decremental vigilance, I I prefer that one for is broader. I'm. not telling you what to pay attention. to. I'm not trying to tell you, but. you're about to make a decision. Just. realize this focus, this external, they're actually calling it action. network, action brain network. These.

fountains and continents that rev up a. little bit on the inside our brain for. outward attention versus dreaming where. it's all imaginative like you can't rev. that up for 16 hours. See, there's a. cadence to the day. >> Yeah. >> You're setting yourself up for success. Individual success. fighting with. somebody, dealing with a kid, driving. you crazy, whatever it is, that's that's. yours. I want people to walk away with. like, I get it, >> you know, my my day is my my my day is a. dance, you know. >> Yeah, I really like that, man. I think. that's such great advice and it it.

resonates so strongly with me even when. I look at my day. So, for example, I. only do two interviews per day. So, you're my first one, I have another one. in the afternoon and I can only do two. interviews per day because for me, these. interviews require 100% focus. And if. you ask me to do another one on top of. that, I just don't think I could be at. 100%. But I know that for you, I can be. at 100%. I then have a couple of. meetings in between which are requiring. a different part of me that don't. require this exclusive focus. And you're.

so right. I think we put so much. pressure on oursel that we expect this. level of focus in every conversation, every meeting, throughout the whole day, >> in every situation. You get some bad. news, you got to know. I may not even be. able to pull off two. You got a crunch. You might be able. But that's exactly. that's again ecological validity in your. environment. If I get into a car crash, I can't go into my zen pre-surgery zen. mode. I call my partner. I got to know. where I'm at. >> And so it there is no final guidance.

It's just. >> that your attention and focus. You know. what I mean? It's because people people. think like like he's a robot. No, man. I've been through a lot. I go through a. lot. I feel a lot. But I've just. realized that to deliver as a surgeon, here's the dance I do with my own mind. >> to be to bring it for that patient. because that that patient trusted me on. a journey that's sacred and at that. moment that's all I'm about. >> I wanted to ask you about something you.

mentioned before. You talked about this. idea of this emotional memory that. almost comes immediately. This idea that. if and I I often lead this meditation. And it's one of my favorite ones to lead. when I'm sharing it with my audience or. community. And technically, it's called. a loving kindness meditation. And what. it means is I'll often ask people before. we share love with the world, I edited. it slightly for people to really. experience love within themselves. So. I'll ask people to close their eyes and. get into that zone, but I'll ask them to.

go back to a memory where they felt the. most joyful, the most happy, and the. most love. Who was there? How did it. smell? What could they see? What could. they hear? What could they taste? And. immediately people will have a vision. People think of their wedding day. People have even thought of uh their dog. passing away because it was a really. important transition point for them. It. could be the first time they uh. celebrated their parent or bought their. parent a home or whatever it was. The.

ability to take care of someone. Yeah. It's really beautiful. It's different. But it's really interesting what you. said is for most of us it's actually the. opposite that we do more of. So it's. more common for us to replay a negative. memory again and again and again and. again than it is for us to remember what. we did last weekend even if it was. positive. Why do we do that? Why do we. replay negative memories? Why is it so. easy and what do we do about it?

Memory. is imprinted with emotion for our. protection, right? Like you see a snake, you don't want have to think about it. It's a global thing. But roughly as the. brain blossomed, it went from brain. stem, which people call reptilian to. limbic structures, which people call. emotional or primal brain, and. prefrontal cortex, which is which is the. part of the brain that pushed the brain. forward. They have different uh regions,

but they're all interconnected and. they're hubs. So, it's not a consistent. texture throughout the brain. It's not. like a liver. It's not like fla where. it's like the brain the brain is not one. thing. It's a whole ecosystem. Different. structures, different connections, different cells. And memory and emotion. are intertwined as part of the primal. limbic structures. That's the way my. puppy can sniff and smell out when I'm. trying to trick her. I think about a in.

that way how ingenious that is. Like if. you're going on a date night, you're. like, "Hey, Frankie, Frankie, come. come." She's like looking at you, right? That's instinct. So emotion and memory. and thoughts, that is a type of. thinking. I don't think of emotions and. not thinking that if you have a brain. injury and you lose those primal. centers, you're you're you're paralyzed. You can't make a decision. You can. actually have an injury to your. prefrontal cortex and still do a lot. with just your limbic structure. So. emotion and memory are important, right? You want that imprint. I saw a snake, I.

jumped before I thought about it. Then what also happens is we have. emotional regulation. I saw the snake, I. jump, then I looked down the second. time. It's a plastic snake. I'm not. worried about that. Or I'm afraid of. heights and exposure therapy. I could. learn to tamp down my emotional. responses with my prefrontal cortex, which is the area of the brain that push. the forehead forward. You can think of. it as two fists and there's different. regions that do different things that. are fascinating. That's an important. system, but that system is so hot for.

your protection that it could go. sideways on you too. So, what what I. think is important is that most of us. when we have traumatic experiences, we. don't develop PTSD. The great majority. of people from hurricanes and COVID and. other things, they don't develop PTSD. There is a protective mechanism on how. to deal with trauma. And that mechanism. is learning to uncouple the emotional. imprint of the limbic structures and the.

primal area of the brain amydalious part. of it that I was hurt and the asalent. was wearing a flannel jacket. Your. immediate response is not to go down. that alley. That's protective. When a year later you're not able to. leave your home. I'm not judging you. I. would be the same way. I'm just saying. that's something you want to work on. That emotional imprint is too strong. Then you go to somebody who can take you. safely based on you feeling safe. Not.

every therapist office is safe. You feel. safe. You bring up that memory. Your. body has a response and you realize, you. know what? It's okay. You do that 10. times and what happens? You take the. traumatic, negative, hurtful, scary. emotion. to that memory. You don't lose that. memory. Those patients will tell you, "Yeah, now I can think of it, but it. doesn't it doesn't take my breath away. like that.".

>> You're extracting. the story you have attached to that. memory from that memory. Right. >> Yeah. The negative imprint part of the. story. You're not you're not trying to. forget about it. >> That's the that's the cool that's. established. I don't know how how that. works. I'm not a therapist, but that's. that's the point there is the. hippocampus, the hub for brainwide. memory. >> and limbic structure. Something happens. They're meant to stamp you. Don't go. down that alley again. Don't get hit. with that snake again. Right? Like. that's that's the design. Yeah.

>> But what happens in our life is we're. dealing with a lot of the the hurt from. it from lovers, from experiences at. work, and from assault that, you know, I. work in a hospital. People still get. hurt quite a bit. And so when you're. able to revisit a memory in a controlled. environment. and not have that harmful experience, you can dampen your emotional stamp onto. that memory. You don't forget the. memory. you just uncouple, disassociate. the emotional feelings, the trauma, the.

fear, the physical reaction. And I don't. know if that's a negativity bias or not. I don't have an answer for that. You ask. like why do we always remember more. painful things? I mean, maybe they're. protective. It's more of evolutionary. psychology. Maybe that helped us. There's no way to experiment or like I. can't give you that answer. But what I. would say to you is what if we did the. flip side? Maybe that's the. neurobiology. I'm not talking about. neuroscience and the brain. The brain. just just to be specific. What if by. remembering a positive memory,

you are enhancing. and accentuating. the positive stamp. >> That's my belief. Yeah. >> Yeah. And the and because it's. interconnected with hubs and continents. and lobes, not what if because it's. interconnected. Just stay with me. If you have an. emotional negative a negative emotional. stamp on a memory and it reverberates. through your body, I mean God just. goosebump I mean you know it's it's I we. can go over the connections but it's a. physiologic.

response. What if you could have by. choice in that part of that prefrontal. cortex that area at the bottom called. orbital frontal cortex without getting. into the the details of it but there's. an internal referee of where we steer. our thoughts and our competition of. wants and thoughts. What if we spent. time saying, "Bring up positive old. memories. Stamp them harder. Put them in. a collective environment that reinforces. it. Bring out the positive thinking. Bring out the positive vibes." It could.

be physiologically possible to be the. opposite of PTSD, emotional stamping of. the hippocampus. Now, there's no. experiment for that, but I believe in. that. >> Yeah. >> Right. There's no reason not to believe. in that. And if you do that, just. remember it's not happening in a spot in. your brain. it's reverberating through. your brain and your body. So then maybe. you stop having some of those somatic. symptoms. Maybe right maybe you feel. that flow state where your body is. different and your brain is different. So I believe that there every nerve is.

two-way. I touch it goes up I want to move. It's. the same nerve. It's birectional. So why. can't the relationship between our. primal limbic circuits whatever amigdala. and our memory zone and all. interconnected why can't that be. birectional if we can stamp a negative. memory so we don't fall in that trap. again what if we could stamp a positive. memory and add momentum in that. direction. >> this is a huge huge thing I want people. to take away because what we've kind of.

stumbled on here is so profound for. people because what we're saying is. don't try to forget the bad memory. If. you try to forget the bad memory, it. will never go away. That memory is going. to stay there because it's trying to. teach you something. It's trying to. remind you something. It's trying to. make you aware of something. But if you. can change the story, if you can give it. a different meaning, if you can extract. the pain. >> that. >> it just completely transforms. I'm.

thinking about so many moments in my. life that you're so right that now you. can think of that memory. The memory is. not gone. >> But the way I think of that moment, I. think of it as being a powerful part of. my story. I think of it as being a. beautiful breakthrough for me. >> Put that crisis to use. >> Absolutely. And all of a sudden, yeah, that's really. >> because it's too hard to tell somebody. to forget that. They're like, "Uh, you're telling me to forget that is the. only thing I'm thinking about." You know. what I mean? That's not fair to them. I. think the problem is not just people.

telling us. I think we want to forget. it. >> Well, because of the language and the. concepts that are out there, >> but if we're told, "No, you haven't. failed because you forgot to have that. thought. >> You haven't failed. You you haven't. failed in your intentional efforts. because that thing continues to grip. you.". >> Yeah. >> Just say, "Yeah, that's in your head. That's in your life. That's your exper. Nobody knows what happened last night to. me or you or that patient or anybody. So. it cannot be the same advice for. everyone but it can be the same concept.

We don't have infinitely wild dreams. Our dreams follow some patterns. Well, our thoughts and emotions follow some. patterns. >> Yeah. >> Negative emotional imprinting built in. >> Turn that head and it'll be incremental. >> Yeah. >> It's not going to be, hey, tomorrow I. see. I get it. I can hold on to that. memory. I just can't feel bad about it. That's not going to happen in a in a. second. That's not going to happen in a. moment. There are epiphanies. We can get. into some things like that, but that's. that's the direction that you want to. put your attention and focus.

>> Yeah. No, and it applies to even what. you were saying last time you were here. And for anyone who's listening, we're. not going to dive into this topic today, but you can go back and listen to Dr. R. Jandelle's first episode on the podcast. You were talking about this powerful. state for when we're kind of awake, kind. of asleep in the morning. >> You talking about the need to journal at. that time to I've been practicing it. ever since we spoke. It's been one of my. favorite things. I've talked about it. with people, shared it with people and. it's amazing because I was saying to I. was talking to my personal trainer today.

where when we were working out and I was. explaining to him that if you said in. that time, I'm tired. Like that's the. first thing you think of. Now, for the. rest of the day, you're just looking for. proof and confirmation that you're. tired. So, you look in the mirror and. you see bags under your eyes and go, "Yeah, I knew I was tired." Then you get. to the day and you're late for your. meeting and everything's feeling a bit. slow and you're like, I knew I was. tired. And now what you're doing is. you're just confirming that belief and. it's not setting you up rather than. saying, I'm going to look for energy. today. I'm going to find rest today. I'm.

going to create a space for curiosity. today. Whatever it may be, you're now. going to look for that. And I think that. at the very base level is how we wire. what we look for and what our repeated. thoughts are throughout the day. And so. I really love that piece of advice. I'd. love to encourage people to go back to. it. But going back to the conversation. we're having right now, one thing that. comes to mind is a lot of people today. are scared of going to therapy because. they don't feel, even if they don't say. this consciously,

>> they don't feel they want to bring. something up because it's so painful. I. interviewed someone a couple of months. ago and all I could think of the whole. time was that they just couldn't go. there and they haven't gone there, not. even in their public life on a podcast. They haven't gone there in their private. life because they don't want to go. there. Is it true that the brain will. let you go there when you're ready or. why is it that they're suppressing this.

>> negative experience? >> I don't have an answer for that. And um. you know again the concept of the brain. as a as a single entity I would say you. know like our whole our brain mind and. behavior. So I I try to think of it as the brain. creates a mind. It can create many. minds. The dreaming mind the waking mind. during the day we have many minds. Sometimes you're frustrated sometimes. you're tired. And then there's behavior. His mind that person's mind might be. saying this is something I need to.

address. is eating me up. But the. behavior doesn't translate to going to. take those steps. And that's the thing. I'm working on right now is the. difference between mind and behavior, which is comes down to sort of the the. inter internal referee again. Like the. the brain has created the mind. The mind. can actually go back and change the. brain. So certain certain ways of. thought can create grooves where. electricity is more likely to flow. like. it's kind of steering the aurora. borealis of neuronal activity in your.

brain and then but there's behavior. behavior is is fascinating you can think. I need to do this and you don't like. where's why is that not happen aren't. you in charge of yourself you're not you. have a competition of wants and behavior. you know what the right thing to do is. this person might say I need to tackle. this I would be better by tackling this. so mind and behavior is uncoupled we. don't always act on what we should do or. have even decided to do. But then the. the original thing you asked. suppression, but one of the coping.

mechanisms is suppressing looking at. something difficult and I see that when. I was a I did a lot of pediatric. neurosurgery like you got to give the. parents time to deal with a sick child. So yeah, they're going to hold it at. bay. They're going to suppress it. That. doesn't mean that's a a pathologic or. bad therapeutic technique. It's. ecological validity, right? like in that. situation we ain't judging parents who. got sick kids, right? Cuz that's a.

stress we can't imagine. So for this. person, I don't know what's going on in. the other parts of their life, but. suppression of something is uh is a. basic but very effective. Uh. >> and so it shouldn't be forced out of. people is what I'm saying. >> We don't know what's going on with him, you know. No, I think that's a really. important note because I think a lot of. us, especially when you start doing some. of this work, a lot of people want their. family member to be like, you need to go. therapy, like you need to go look at. your past. And I feel like it's well.

intentioned, >> but you got to be very careful because. that person may actually need to wait a. certain amount of time before they feel. ready. >> and to fully engage and to dect. I love. the attention and focus thing and. because you're not you can't just show. up. You got to put attention and focus. to that. >> Yeah. Exactly. So even if you force them. to go but they weren't ready to engage, it's going to be even worse and they may. walk out thinking that doesn't work for. them or it was a useless waste of time. >> Right? And I think. >> as a physician, as a surgeon, I see.

myself as a cancer surgeon. Yes, brain, but cancer surgeon, I never say you need. this or you need that. Like you can. choose to not have this life-saving. measure. You can choose to let this. thing, you know, cause you pain. I'm. just talking to you about leaving you. with an understanding. an informed. so you can make my my role is to inform. you about the things that are out there. in this world. this medicine, that. medicine, this surgery, that surgery,

and then. >> if you choose me to be your surgeon, I. will give you everything. Right? >> Then I feel like that's how it should be. for psychological. challenges as well. Like, hey, loved. one. Um, you know, I know you, I could see you. not doing well. These are kind of the. things that are out there. you know, there's this, there's that, and there is. no one path. And depression gives us. that answer. For some people, it's the.

talking cure. For some people, it's a. talking cure plus a medicine that. interferes with serotonin at the. neuronal level. For other people, they're so close to self harm that it's. a ketamine sniff in a hospital that. breaks their suicidal ideation within 12. hours. Like, wow, how does that work? I'm fascinated with that. for for other. people it's I I choose to have stickers. placed on my scalp and get shock therapy. at elite centers like so if you look at. depression it's just so wide and people.

say well this treatment didn't work but. yeah because all of those treatments. only work in some of those people but. please keep going because there might be. something that works for you that's what. I think where whereas therapy it's just. it's too encapsulated it may not have. the term is too encapsulated I love the. field I've reading about it like. cognitive reappraisal and how to stop. bodily urges like I love the field but. the delivery is sometimes not nuanced. enough nurturing enough inviting enough.

for the other person so I would say. think about how you know people engage. cancer page like you don't have to do. anything but do you know that these. things exists and may benefit you may. harm you uh depression the wide range I. think that is where I would like to see. the term therapy go so it's not uh you. ain't doing well. I got it all figured. out and I'm judging you with this term. Uh it's more of an invitation, an. exploration that has benefited me. You. may want to consider it.

>> I remember growing up, I used to always. hear the phrase, "We're only using 5% of. the brain's potential." How true is. that? >> Well, over here it was 20. Um that. that's the urban legend. And I think. it's exciting because you think like, hey, if I did this, I think there was a. movie Bradley Cooper like. >> Yeah. Limitless. Yeah. Like, okay, I'm. just I'm just waiting on I'm just going. to be at the boss of all of this once I. get the rest of this 80 this 80% kicking. in. >> It's uh it's a myth and I'll explain to. you why. A couple of clear reasons.

>> How you ruined it. >> Oh, yeah. I know. But I'll still leave. people inspired. The Because it's such. an energy hog. I don't want to run all. the brain matter to tie my shoelaces. M. >> so habits will manage with just in that. ecosystem of jellyfish just the lightest. shiver of electricity will shiver. through some neurons to tie my shoelaces. we want to be efficient right that so we. only use 20% of our brain at a time to. do most things but there is no hidden. corner and we know that categorically.

now with brain scans the whole region. lights up it just lights up in different. ways for different tasks I think what's. inspiring for people is to know that. when you try to learn something new, when you try to activate something new, it's going to feel like work. Like, let. let's not it's not going to be easy. But. once you get over that, it's called. activation energy. Once you get over. that, once you put in the original work, the best way I can describe it, you're. going down a mountain, you're following. the same the slopes, the the the the ski.

the grooves on the mountain that all the. skiers are on. It's gonna take work to. create another groove of thought, >> of feeling of emotion, >> but after a while, it doesn't require. the same amount of effort. So that. again, there's decremental vigilance and. surgery, but there's also like, hey, this thing you're trying to change, put. a couple months into it, lock down for a. couple months, and then the years. afterwards, >> it'll be in your pocket. It'll be. easier. It's not going to be uphill.

forever. >> Yeah. Thanks for busting the myth. The last thing I wanted to talk to you. about, Ro, was this. You know, so many. young people today are getting cancer. >> I just had my friend 42. just, you know, had a surgery. Thankfully, he's going to be okay. I. think I lost a friend a few years ago to. colon cancer. So many younger people are. getting cancer. We keep hearing it used. to be one in four, then one in three. Maybe it's going to get to one in two. people have cancer. What do we do?

That's a big question. Um, so there when you look at last last 30. 40 years, uh, there have been some. positive shifts. Cancer treatments are. leading to significantly improved. lifespan and quality of life for cancer. patients. Lung cancer rates here are. going down. They're starting to pop up. in other countries where there's. pollution. So there there are shifts in. cancer. The concerning shift is. um. certain cancers breast and colon in.

particular are. if on average they popped up at a. certain age that curve you know there's. some early outliers and some late. outliers but the bulk of the curve that. drives you know understanding of how to. how to manage that as at a global and at. a national level that curve for is. shifting earlier and in particular for. women And that's, you know, Chadwick. Boseman got caught people's eyes, you. know, with Black Panther. That's.

somebody that was very young. You're. starting to see people with breast. cancer at a much younger age. That. doesn't mean they're all passing away. But two questions quickly arise. What's. going on that's causing it? And then. what do we do differently to catch it? Right? While waiting to figure out why. it's happening, do we need to change how. we live, how we screen, and that sort of. thing. What's causing it? I I don't. know. Well, I used to get asked this. thing like, "Are there more brain. tumors?" Because self everybody's on a. cell phone. Well, now it's not on our. ear. But the global rates of brain.

tumors didn't change. The earlier. cancers, people are saying, "Well, is it. microplastics? Is it something else? Is it that?" I. don't know. It's a hard thing to design. an experiment for. You're not going to. give a thousand people microplastics and. a thousand people pretend microplastics. as a placebo. And like, so you have to. look at the data that's available to. you. But there is a concern that our. food, our air, our our water. um is not good enough for people should.

receive more attention. Um we deserve as. a human right better food, water, the. link to cancer. I I can't say that. that's categorically there. What's very. important is for those people are that. are living with that fear now like. cancer is coming earlier. Why not give. them something that's good for them that. may also be protective for these. cancerous? I think a lot of people on. the flip side like there was this thing. like you don't need an experiment to say.

the if you don't open a parachute you're. not going to do well. We don't need tons. of proof to say we should improve health. at the systemic. Right? We just talked. about 10 years of a certain diet. Well, what if 10 years of bad water, bad food, and bad process is is is the culprit? Even though I can't prove it, that's the. right thing to do and I think it gives. people a sense of power. Okay. On the. flip side, screening needs to move. early. If.

screening for colon cancer that passes. 45, 50, we need to start screening. people earlier. There's easy imaging. You don't have to have an invasive. procedure. And here we need more. reduction of what I call barriers to. care, right? It's it's in our field. There are medicines and screening and. treatment that people don't even know. about. people don't even get to there's. a language barrier maybe somebody can't. afford the bus so as I work in my. laboratory to make new medicine we got. to make sure the medicine and the and. the care we got gets to everybody so. that's reduction of the barriers to care.

education what we're you know what we're. doing on television what we're doing on. messaging is to start the screening a. little bit earlier and that's important. because both breast and and colon they. grow in stages 1 2 3 4 and wherever. you're at if If you catch it one stage. earlier, that's less medicine, maybe no. medicine. Less surgery, maybe no. surgery. So, it doesn't matter where you. catch it. You want that feeling of I'm. glad I got screened and I caught it. earlier. So, those would be my two. suggestions.

>> It's such a fascinating time we're. living in because I think there's more. data available than ever, but a lot of. us are scared of seeing that data as. well. >> And there's a fear of not wanting. something, but finding out too early as. well. It's, you know, it it is a lot of. scare. And the biggest thing that I. think you raised today, which I'm glad. that you're focused on figuring it out, is that mind behavior disconnect because. I think we all know what we have to do. Everyone knows what they need to change, right? We me and you don't have to tell. them. We're all aware, but we just can't.

seem to do it. If you had to give anyone. any final words on that for anyone who's. been listening today going, I want to. change my diet. For anyone who's. listening today saying to us, you know, I want to work out more. For anyone. listening to us today and saying, "I. want to challenge myself more, but I. feel unmotivated. I feel tired. I'm just. exhausted. I'm overworked and. overwhelmed." What would you say to. them? >> To give you a big picture, you you. us as creatures in this world, we have a.

reciprocal relationship with our. environment. The brilliance and beauty. is that we have choice. the like the first cell by the deep. water you know we used to just drift. away from toxins but then at some point. a single cell said that's nutrition I. want to swing over there and then a. collective of cells and then animals and. so we have choice this this is I just I. love this and the newest part of that. prefrontal cortex I was describing to. you the little the newest neurons like.

sedimentary layers you know you can see. like where the dinosaurs are you cut a. tree and you can see you can age you. figure out you in the brain you can. figure out what which are the newest. neurons are in this area called the. orbital frontal cortex which is orbital. it just it it's just descriptive it just. mean above your eyeballs and at the. bottom of your frontal loes you know. like right behind your forehead but at. the bottom you know and the cells there. if they're injured people have a hard. time changing political beliefs like. it's different it's it's a decision.

maker. >> and they call it the arbitrator system. that it it it decides between things So. again, tying your shoelaces, that's not. a big decision. A decision made for you, that's not a big decision. But then when. there's a competition of wants, I want to do this, but I also want to do. this. I want to have this piece of. bacon, but I want to, you know, I don't. want to eat it. That's where we are at. our most vulnerable and best. You know, that's where we're human. And rather. than feeling frustrated by those wants. that you can't always pursue the way you.

really choose to in inside your mind. like I want to do this but I don't get. there. My mind is ready to do it but my. behavior doesn't reflect that. That. that's called your internal referee. It's it's the it's the decision maker. And what I would the specific guidance I. would give people is that internal. referee is vulnerable. Okay. So you want. to work with that internal referee. You. want to do a handful of things. One, you. want to know attention and focus is. limited. Two, you want to know it is.

susceptible to attentional magnets. You. want to stop smoking. Well, be careful. looking up at that gas station at those. shiny boxes. You want to avoid eating. something and you you know it's you know. your struggle to get there. Work with. that internal referee. One, break the. compulsions. Break the attentional. magnets that make you look at something. and then that decision goes downhill. you're like, "Ah, now it's out the. gate." So, the first thing is when it's. in your head, think it out. This trips. me up. I want to space myself from this.

I want to physically distance myself. from this. I want to only get a little. bit of coke and then drive away. Right? Whatever you're working on, I'm not. judging anybody, but first is to give. yourself the physical and psychological. distance from attentional magnets that. have you shift away from the want that. you had decided you wanted. Mh. >> Number two is then if you're then then. if you're in it and you're like, "Okay, I didn't want to have this food. I. didn't want this puff. I didn't want to. have this snore." Whatever. Whatever. your thing is, once you're going down. that road, now your internal referee is. a different creature. Now, what you're.

trying to do is prevent it from becoming. an urge. For smokers, you're looking at. the shiny box, you walk outside, you. smell, you want to get away from your. thought hijacking your body because now. you're jonesing. You've got you're. shivering. Now it becomes a. physiological thing. The the game isn't. lost. You can still turn it around, but. you need to know the steps of desire as. that as they happen as in your. competition of wants and work with. yourself. Break the tensional magnets. Don't let it become an urge. If you do.

decide to, there's a whole thing called. wanting and seeking. That's fine. I'm. going to have this smoke. I'm going to. have one puff. I'm going to throw away. the pack. I'm going to have this bacon, but I'm only going to I'm going to. mitigate. I'm only going to have one. piece rather than have the whole thing. There are steps in the way we negotiate. our wants. So, it's not just I wanted to. do this but it didn't happen. Develop. your arsenal, the arrows in your quiver. of this is a competing want and I got. one, two, three things through the three. things I'm going to do.

>> I love that, Dr. Al Jandelle. It's such. a joy every time you're here. And I hope. you'll come back when your new book's. ready. and everyone who's been listening. and watching back at home, when you're. traveling, whatever you're up to, make. sure you tag me and Dr. John Deell on. Instagram, on Tik Tok, wherever you post. your clips because I want to see what. resonated with you. I want to see what. connected with you. I always take away. so much when I meet you. Honestly, it's. things that stay with me for a long time. and uh they're good memories and and the. good lessons. So, I'm very grateful for. your time and energy. >> Thanks so much for coming back.

>> If you love this episode, you'll enjoy. my interview with Dr. Daniel Aean on how. to change your life by changing your. brain. >> If we want a healthy mind, it actually. starts with a healthy brain. You know, I've had the blessing or the curse to. scan over a thousand convicted felons. and over a hundred murderers and their. brains are very damaged.