#1 Body Language Expert: “Men Find This IRRESISTIBLE & Most Women Never Do It” - Try This ASAP

How do you let someone know that they. should make a move without giving it. Vanessa Van Edwards. Best-selling author and researcher, Vanessa Van Edwards. We decide how confident someone is. within the first 200 milliseconds of. hearing them speak. The best way to show availability is one. word. It sounds like this. Tell me why compliments don't work. How do we tell the difference between. charisma and narcissism? The way you see the world changes the.

world. What are the negative cues we miss. because we're infatuated or attracted to. someone? If you want to be treated with more. respect, you have to make sure it's. the number one health and wellness. podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty. If someone was not only to listen, but. to apply the insights you're about to. share today, what would they overcome?

I'm a recovering awkward person. And I have found that through this work, and that is my mission today with you, that you can overcome awkwardness, doubt, and most importantly, the feeling. of being underestimated. I think that that's really what I'm. trying to get at with my work is. if you feel that you have a lot of. potential or you have this desire to. connect that you don't know how and. people are underestimating your. charisma, your ideas, your smarts, who. you are, my goal is to make it so you no. longer feel underestimated.

Oh, I love that. That's so strong. Those are my people. That's so strong and and I resonate with. it so strongly because I'm sure just. like you, I meet so many people who feel. they have the next big idea, who feel. that they have something to share, something to give, something to teach, something to pass on, but they don't. feel confident. They're lacking that. feeling of courage. They're lacking that. feeling of I don't know how to present. my idea. I don't know how to share it. And this is what we're going to do. today. And the the problem is like I also have.

these ideas, but I I not only didn't. have confidence, I felt out of control. I think this is an an aspect of. communication we don't talk about. enough. I think the side door into. confidence, because we all say I I wish. I felt more confident. But the side door. is thinking, okay, I have an idea. What's the blueprint that I need from. conversations, from charisma, to be able. to get where I want? How can I take. control of my connections, my. relationship, my communication, so I. know if I want to show up as friendly, or as likable, or as competent, I know.

exactly what to do with my body, my. voice, my words, to show up in that way. So for me, the only way I was able to. overcome awkwardness was taking control. of the signals I'm sending, and being. able to take control of the kinds of. relationships and conversations I had. What I really appreciate about what. you're saying, you just named three. things there. You said, if I want to. come across as friendly, likable, and. competent. Mhm. What's really fascinating is I think. most of us don't even know we want to. come across that way. This is true. The step one of control. is, how do you want people to see you?

And here's what's really important. The. cues that you send to others make people. think about you a certain way, but the. cues you send to others also change how. others treat you. So if you want to be treated with more. respect, you have to make sure it starts. with you, that you're sending the cues. needed to show others how they should. treat you with respect. If you want to. be treated with friendliness, or warmth, or vulnerability, how do you signal to. others, I want you to be open and raw. and real with me? We can take control of. those signals to tell others, here's how. I want to be treated. And so step one.

is, how do you want people to see you? Let's play a little game, okay? So in. your mind, when people first meet you, what word do you think they think? Like. what's a word they used to describe you? Ooh, that's so good. do you think it is? I would hope it is. warm. Warm. Okay. So I've asked this to. thousands of people, and the words are, you know, all over the place. By the. way, a lot of folks have negative words, and that's okay. Like, for example, my. word used to be awkward, right? People would say that.

I knew. You know when you show up, and. I'm a social over-thinker. So, like, I I would get in my head about. things. I would over-think things, and I. I knew I could see in their face that I. was I was coming across as awkward. And. I was creating more awkwardness. So, I. my original word for first impression. was awkward. And that's what got me into. this work. So, a lot of the words I have. two kind of groups of people. I folks. like you who are like warm, uh. competent, charismatic, confident. I. love it. I love it. But, a lot of folks, and if this is you, I'm with you. I'm. going to help. It could be quiet. It.

could be awkward. It could be scared. Nervous. There's a lot of words like. that. Okay, so start there. Then, the. question is, what do you want people to. think when they first meet you? What's. the word that you wish, maybe even two. or three words? How do you want to come. across? So, would yours ideal be warm, and do you have another one that you. wish? I'd I'd probably add loving. Loving. Oh my love it. Okay. So, think of three words that you wish to. convey. Now, we have to work backwards. So, step two is, okay, how do we convey.

warmth and competence and loving or. confidence? That's where the real magic. happens. And there are 97 cues. I've. identified 97 cues. 97? 97 cues. With the very beginning of my. career, I realized that humans were. sending these social signals. back and forth. Your nodding, your hand. gesture, your feet, your voice power, and I just missed them all. I have a. affliction. I tend to misinterpret. neutral faces as negative. I think we all do. A lot of people do. of people do. It's the basis of resting bothered face.

This is the basis. There's actually. science behind RBF. And it's that most. people. misidentify neutral expressions as. negative. And by the way, interesting. thing they found in the research with. this was if you are an angrier person, if you tend to get angry more, you see. more neutral faces as angry. Ooh. I didn't even think about that. in a way, the way you see the world. changes the world, right? Like, if you. were an angry person and you're. misinterpreting neutral faces as angry,

and then you you reply back with anger. or offensiveness or defensiveness, you. make them angry. Absolutely. And so, this is like this weird cue. cycle. Okay, so if there's 97 different. cues, I started categorizing them cuz I. was like, I don't I'm misinterpreting, and I would say to my husband, I think. she's mad at me. And he'd be like, why? I'd go to a party and be like, everyone's mad at me. And he'd be like, I didn't see that at all. And that's. when I started to realize, okay, what. are the actual negative faces? So, I had there I discovered, you know, the research on microexpressions, the. seven microexpressions, which we can. talk about. And then I started to.

categorize these patterns just for me. And then I realized there was all these. other awkward people who also wanted to. be able to read these social signals. And so, I think that when you pick your. word, starting to I make your recipe of. charisma. Yeah, and what I love about this is this. is all happening before you get to the. date, before you get to the event, before you get to the interview. This is. where it has to start, and I think so. many of us turn up and naturally, by the. way, me included, I think the challenge. I have is people may assume that I'm.

always confident and have it all. together. If I don't prepare for an. event, I can turn up and feel exactly. the same way. Because I walk in and I'm. rushed there and I'm thinking, gosh, what am I going to say? Like, why am I. here again? And why's that person. looking at me in that way? And were they. right? Okay, so this is good. Let's add a step. to our exercise. Please. Which is, I'm just thinking about this. now. What's your bad day first impression. word? My bad day first impression word would. be.

absent. Mhm. Like, I'm just. Ooh, like muting. Yeah, like I'm just not quite there. I'm. probably looking through someone. I'm. I'm probably not listening as well as I. usually do because I'm kind of just I'm. lost. I'm a bit lost and absent, yeah. Okay, so everyone should think about. their bad first impression word, their. current first impression word, and their. ideal. Why? What are the triggers that. trigger you to be in that bad space? And. what are the triggers that make you feel. that good space? So, one of the very. first steps is, okay, whether you're an. introvert, an extrovert, or an ambivert,

and there is that sort of in between, who triggers you to be your best self? You know how like around certain people. you're like, "Ah, like I. I'm my funniest. I'm my most. charismatic." Great. Those are the. people who bring out the good first. impression. You want to be around those. people as much as possible. Who are the. people who bring out the bad first. impression? Right, like who are the people who make. you feel the way I would describe it is. like tight inside? Like that's how I. would describe it. Rigid. Like that's. what I do. I get very rigid when I'm. afraid or nervous. Who makes you feel.

angry? Who makes you feel rigid? Who. makes you feel afraid? Who makes you. shut down? You know, awkwardness dresses. up in a lot of different ways. Some. people their awkwardness is shutting. down, right? They they mute, they go. quiet, they collapse in on themselves, they take up less space from a body. language perspective, but other people. get bigger. They become dramatic, they name drop, they talk too loud, they overtalk. Like. that that's also a way that our. awkwardness shows up. So, what are your. triggers that make you do that? The. people, but also the places. Yes. Right? Like I love a one-on-one.

conversation, so I'm I was more excited. for this conversation than I would be. like if you were to say, "Vanessa, come. over to my house for a happy hour.". Which never happens at my house. Okay, great. Okay, great cuz I'm not coming. I can't come. Or if I come, I would be. like agonizing the whole time. Yeah, yeah. Like a rooftop bar, you know, a loud. nightclub, just like not my space. Same. Like it just triggers all the bad stuff. in me. So, I think that like knowing who. and what is going to also set you up for. success into getting to the better. taking control, right? You can control.

the people and the places where you want. to show up your best self, that's like. step number one. That's the groundwork. Mhm. And I think that that's hard. shifting that, moving that forward when. you have to start going to places where. you don't know anyone, right? And there. were two areas I really wanted to focus. on with you today. One was looking at. the dating landscape, and we'll start. there. And the second I want to focus on. is work because I feel like those are. the two areas where your skills and your. habits and your tools thrive in a way. that that, you know, people are going to. change their lives. We were talking.

about this idea that let's say you're at. a workout class. Let's say you're at a. social space. Maybe it is a rooftop bar, maybe it is a club. Yes. You want to signal to someone to make a. move. You want to let them know that you. find them attractive, that you'd like. them to do something, but you want to be. subtle. You don't want to give it away. How do you let someone know that they. should make a move without giving it. away? Okay. I'm going to give you news you're. probably not going to like, but it's so.

important. It's a phenomenon called. signal amplification bias. What this is, it's very well studied, that we tend to think we are over. obvious with our cues. So, if you're in. a a bar, they literally studied singles. in a like bar nightclub setting. Women. and men who think they are being obvious. with their flirtation cues, the other. person has no idea. Okay? good. They even counted the number of. flirtation signals. This is incredible. research. They observed singles.

mingling, and they counted each person's. flirtatious signals towards other people. in the room. They found in 10 minutes, how many signals do you think it took. for a woman to show a man she was. interested? How many in 10 minutes? How. many signals did she have to send? When it actually worked? When it when it actually worked. Now that you've given me some sort of. I'm going to go 30. 29. Oh, okay, cool. That's it. But do you know how many. signals that is in 10 minutes? of signals. That is that is pretty constant. And if you didn't tell me, I would.

probably would have guessed three. Right. It was only because you gave me a sense. that there was more, I probably would. have said three, seven. That is what women think is it was. needed. I sent three flirty glances and. he just didn't come over, he's not. interested. No, he didn't see him. Or he. doubted himself. Or he was like, was. that a trick of my eye? It took 29 signals in 10 minutes to get. approached, so the other person went, "Ah, she's interested." Just interested. That was before the even the. conversation started. So, what are the. flirty glances of availability? And this.

is what the most important is, in the. same group of studies, they found that. attractive women, the most attractive. women who are rated on their. attractiveness, got approached less than. unattractive women who didn't signal. enough. Fascinating. So, if you're an attractive woman and. you don't signal enough, you won't be. approached. Do you have to approach more based on. how objectively attractive you are? You have to be available more. So, what. they found, and this is so it's. ridiculous that we're rating on. attractiveness, but it helps us. understand that sometimes I think we use. attractiveness as an excuse. I'm not.

pretty enough or I'm not this enough. No. Actually, some unattractive women. who signal availability got approached. more. Wow. And so, availability actually makes you. more attractive. When you think about your hair, your. outfit, how you look, how you smell, all. those things are great, but they will. not work if you do not know the body. language signals of availability. And you have to be super clear with. them. So, the very first one are. flirty glances.

Are you going to Are you going to. demonstrate? I'm going to demo it for you. Okay, so flirty glances are typically. they literally look at gaze patterns is. we sweep the room with our eyes, then we. see someone we like, we. Oh, yeah, nice little side glance. Yeah, like very brief. It's a look back up. It's a look back up. It's like you're looking around, but. then. Look back up. Yeah. And it's a side look. or a down and up look. The down and up. look works really well because you're. looking up through your lashes, that's a. very um. Think Marilyn Monroe. So, if you want to. look at the classic example of this, every good photo of Marilyn Monroe, she.

has her chin tilted down and she's. looking up through her eyes. That is a. look that we just like. We just like it. That's why we like it. So, it's glancing. around the room and then eye contact. away. Eye contact away. Then it's little. smiles. So, look and little smile. And. by the way, remember it took 29 of these. So, we got to get really comfortable. with trying. And the nice thing is. there's no pressure. If he doesn't return the glance, he. doesn't return the glance, right? So, um. eye contact, smiles. Self-touch is also.

considered a flirty glance. So, like if. I play with my hair or I play with my. dress, that's a a way of signaling our. hair health from a. evolutionary perspective. It's like, "Look how healthy I am. My healthy long. hair." I think it's one of the reasons. why we tend to like long hair. Women. will also uh when they're flirting, they'll touch their neck, their lips, or. their chin. This actually releases. pheromones. So, the reason why some. women will touch their neck or touch. their lips is because they're actually. trying to release their scent. And scent. is very, very important. It's important. in dating, but it's also important in.

friendships. For example, it's a little. bit off the side of dating, but I just. want to explain why smell is so. important. I just read this study and I. was like, "What?" They had women wear. white t-shirts with no deodorant, no. nothing. So, just their natural smell. for 24 hours. They took these t-shirts. and they had other women smell these. t-shirts and rate the women on if they. liked the smell. Okay, imagine you're. opening a ziploc bag and you're smelling. a shirt. painful study. I would have loved it. I would have. loved it. Sign me up for the. researchers. I'm there. So, they had.

them smell t-shirts and they had them. rate them on how much they liked the. smell. Then they had all the women. interact in person. They didn't know who was who. The smell they liked the best predicted. who they liked the best in person. No way. they actually found their people. There. is something to it. So, when you're. self-touching like that, it's. because we're trying to release this. natural smell of like I'm going to. probably click with you. Right. If you smell good. If you smell good. And good is is. Is subjective. Like that's why I think why sometimes.

you're like, "Oh, we're just clicking.". We like like each other's smell. So So um being available also like. releasing pheromones, self-touch. And. then this one is not from the research, but I'm going to really encourage you to. try it. I think the best way to show. availability is one word. And it sounds. like this. Hey. Just that? Okay. You walk to the bathroom, you walk to. the bar, you walk by them. Hey. Just like that. Because look, and by the.

way, this is for both men and women. Yeah. Okay? Because. life is too short to not hey. Yeah. Right? And it there's no pressure. If. you walk by someone in the gym, Mhm. right? And you're like, "Hey." Even if. they have their AirPods in, if they like. you, they're going to be like, "Hey.". Right? Does it matter the tone of voice? Cuz. you say it in. Yeah, it does matter. Yeah, cuz if you. go like, "Hey." It's not like. No, that's pretty good. Okay. All right. Okay, so here here I'll do a good one. That was me trying to downplay. No, that was good. That was good. See, men men do good with a downward. inflection. So like that downward. inflection is good. And so if it goes.

good, the guy is going to be like, "Hey." If he's not into it, he's going. to be like, "Hey.". Yeah. Right. No problem. Right? Like cool. Hey. Yeah. So it's like the most low-pressure way. when you're in the grocery store, when. even by the way, if someone has AirPods. on, they're going to still going to see. you go. and they're going to take out their. AirPod and they're going to be like, "Hey." So here's the difference, right? So I am using the lowest end of my. natural tone. Mhm. This is especially important for women, but everyone. Research finds that we decide how.

confident someone is within the first. 200 milliseconds of hearing them speak. 200 milliseconds. That means the most. important word you can say really is, "Hey.". That's it. You've just signaled your com. your confidence your confidence, not. confidence. It's specifically. confidence. Okay, so what does that. mean? We are listening for relaxation. and breath in the vocal cords. So right. now I'm working really hard to use the. lowest end of my natural voice cuz I. know that people are listening and I. want to keep them relaxed. When I get nervous, I tend to go a.

little higher in my vocal tone. I might. get a little bit more vocal fry and I. might sound a little bit more like this. Now, if I were to do the entire. interview in this tone of voice, it. would drive you crazy. Absolutely 100%. Horrible. Yeah. It's infectious. We catch it. Mhm. We don't like to be around people or we. could catch their anxiety. We don't want. to catch their anxiety. They've even. found that we match the voice resonance. of the most important person in the. room. So when they tested people, they. found that they un- subconsciously their. resonance matched whoever's most. important person in the room their own.

resonance. The biggest mistake you can. make is you are bored by those answers. and you show it. If you're trying to be. interesting, it's worse than fake it. till you make it. It's what do I have to. do to perform for you? 80% of people are. introverts. So it's actually most. people. Very few people are true. introverts and true extroverts. You've probably been hearing about AI. everywhere and we all need to be mindful. of the tools we trust in this new. chapter of technology. Claude is the if. you know, you know AI assistant that.

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whose mission is to design the most. capable and secure systems that place. people at the center. You can try Claude. for free today at claude.com. That's c l. a u d e dot com. So, here's the thing. A. lot of us when you're attracted to. someone, your heart rate goes up, you. start breathing shallower, and you're. about to say in a like you go "Hey, hey, like really that's the reaction because. you're so nervous.". is why we don't have enough couples.

Yeah, this is the reason. the reason. Cuz the way we're saying hey, yeah. So, what do we do when you're like when. you're feeling that like attraction, maybe you've even built up to it. You've. been going to class every day for 30. days, and this guy's turning up three. times, you're trying to send the cue. Yes. Okay, so luckily, one is now that. you know it, it's going to be very easy. for you to hear yourself do it. So, at. home if you wouldn't mind trying this. with me, I want you to hear the highest. end of your range versus the lowest end. of your range. Everyone has a natural. range. So, first let's start with the. highest. So, take a deep breath and say.

hello at the top of your breath. Hello. Hello. That's our natural highest end of our. range. I never want you to sound like. that. I never sound like that. right, maybe your dog. Yeah. See people go "Hello" to their dog. to a baby. Actually, you're right, to my. niece and nephew. And they look at me. like stop talking to me like that. Babies and dogs. Totally fine. Babies. and dogs. But that's it. Because you're. signaling tightness, high anxiety, and. we don't want that. And by the way, this. happens to everyone. We hold our breath. as we're answering the phone. Hello. You've just given away all your. confidence. Okay. So, that's the. highest. Let's try the lowest. So, take.

a couple deep breaths. Relax your vocal cords, relax your. shoulders, relax your jaw, relax your. mouth, and then I want you to say hello. on the outbreath. sound like this. Hello. Hello. Hello. That's the lowest end of your. range. What happens here is when we take. in breath and we speak on the outbreath, it forces our vocal cords to relax and. it puts us in our lower range. So, here's a difference. Here's how I want. you to say hello. Let's try it on the. phone first. So, instead of Hello. I want you to go Hello.

Totally different. Only the second one? The second one. Right. So, so here's the. bad one. Hello, that's too high versus on the out. breath. Hello. Mhm. You hear it's still me, but I sound. totally different. Totally different. You would you would treat me differently. based on those two hellos. I started off. by saying your cues change how people. treat you. If you speak with confidence, people are. going to treat you with more respect. And so it is critical that we speak that. lower tone. So.

when I was like, "Hey.". I didn't go, "Hey.". That's horrible. So awkward. Oh my god. So a nice low hey for both men and. women, this works. And can we just hey. everyone? Yeah, yeah, I like that. just do like life is too short to not. hey a person you're like, I I like kind. of like their vibe. Right? Like let's. just hey everyone. And if you see me out. in an airport, you just hey me and I'll. laugh.

Yeah, I love Oh, that that's good. I. like that. I I really like that because. I think a lot of people listening right. now, they might be thinking, "But I want. to be accepted for who I am.". Yeah. What's the difference between who we are. and how we choose to present ourselves. because I think people get confused. They go, "Oh, but I I am that kind of. person who's nervous and anxious and. everything, but that's not who they. are.". I don't believe in fake it till you make. it. It's not a concept I've ever. Yeah, me neither. resonated with. And so notice how I. didn't say I want you to be like.

Elizabeth Holmes and go, "Hey." I can't. even do it. How did she do it? know. She was so she faked that low tone. No, I wanted you to find the lowest end of. your natural tone. Mhm. First is I don't believe in fake it till. you make it. Second is I want you to. sound like your most confident self. So. if if for you that is a hey, cool girl. Cool. I'm for it. Right? Like I will if. that is you and that's how you go, I. will take it. So I want you to feel like.

you, but I also want you to find your. resonance point. It's called a maximum. resonance point. That's speaking with. and this is for both dating and work. That's speaking with this part of your. voice that is open and full of power and. volume and space. And don't we all want to operate that. way? Like I think everyone is more. themselves when they have space in their. bodies, when they're taking up their. space, when they have breath. And that. translates to everything. Yes. It translates to my face. It makes my.

face more open. It makes my jaw more. relaxed. It makes my shoulders more. relaxed. So, what I'm kind of hoping is. we're finding that part of you that's. like, "Ooh, resonance.". Yes. Like that's where presence comes from. Yeah, that's a great answer. And And. what's really good about it is also that. if that person says, "Hey," back, you're. now not at this crazy level of. nervousness and anxiety where you can't. Now you're in shock and now you don't. even know how to respond and then that. ruins it. We were talking about one of. my friends who's a comedian called Jared. Freid. He has a podcast called U Up. And.

there was an episode where he was. talking about sometimes it's hard to. spark up a conversation with someone at. a class. And And he was saying it's good. to just go up to someone and say. something like, "Tough class, right?". Like, you know, whatever it may be. Like. something to find some mutual ground. before you hit it off. And I think even. that, saying that in this tone could. help. Okay, so I love this tip. So, you say, "Hey." And And And it's like, "Hey. Hey. Cool.". Yeah. Then you want to use Again, I like a. blueprint. I need specific groundwork. I.

don't like to guess. So, here's your. next step is a context cue. So, a context cue is when you use a. conversation starter that's something. that you both share. If you don't know someone, you don't. know what you share. So, the one thing. you can share is the context you're in, right? So, that could be, "How do you. know the host?" if you're at a party, right? It could be, "How do you like the. food? How do you like your wine? Oh, that coffee looks great. Wow, this is a. tough class." Right? So, it's something. in context because actually that's a. secret me too moment. So this is the.

next effect. So we're fighting in dating. signal amplification bias. More signals. are better. You are not being obvious, right? You think you're being obvious, you're not. It takes 29 signals. You can. count them in your head if you want, okay? So that's the first thing we're. fighting. Once we've managed that and. we're really clear, the second thing. we're trying to meet is psychological. effect called the similarity attraction. effect. What this is is that we like. people who have similar values and. motivations. What's important about this is every. time we have a me too moment like oh we.

have what what we have that? It builds. like a little string between us. Like I. literally envision when I'm in. conversation like we're handing each. other threads. I call it thread theory. Like we're handing each other threads. and the more threads that are back and. forth the more connected we are. Oh I like that. That's the visual I use. So what is the. very first question I said to you when I. met you outside was, you know, I think. we have some some friends in common. Yes. Because I knew that that was a thread. that we could be like yes, we both love. those people. And that made it just. really easy. I didn't say like. how's the weather?

Yeah. I didn't do that, right? So whatever you. can do to create as many me too moments. as possible. That could be raving about. a mutual friend. That could be raving. about how great this class is. That. could be oh the wine is so delicious or. the wine is terrible, right? Like either. one. So all your entire goal in this. part of the conversation is me too. moments. And your question should be. geared towards that because here's where. awkwardness happens. You're in a conversation and you have no. goal. You're like kind of like what do you do?

Where you from? You know, and it's like. these socially scripted dead end. conversation starters. So instead I want. your goal to be I want to them to say me. too. Or I want to say me too. That's it. And it's very low pressure. cuz all you're doing and then your. questions have intention. Right? Like if everything is on purpose, if everything is intention, then our. questions are searching for. similarities. And this is the last step. And this is for dating, for friendship, even a little bit for work relationships. as well. The last step is,

can you find authentic reasons to like. them? And I mean aggressively like them. I think that awkwardness, the reason I. was so awkward for so long is I was. asking the wrong questions, and I didn't know what to listen for. So, the last this study completely. changed my life, changed the way I. interact. I was never a cool kid. I was never popular. And I. Oh, well, it's true. It's true. I was like I. was like a triple major in college. because I was just like, "What can I do. to distract myself?" Like I ran for.

student council because it was the only. position that was unopposed. Anyway. Yeah, I was really cool. Um, so, I found. this study that looked at the cool kids. in high school. Mhm. And they examined thousands of kids. across a variety of high schools, across. a variety of grades, looking for. patterns. Why are some kids more popular. than others? And the hypothesis was, maybe they're more athletic, maybe. they're smarter, maybe they're more. attractive, maybe they're more. extroverted, maybe they're funnier, right? Those are all the things I would. think of, right?

But there were popular kids who were. those things. But the only commonality. across all the grades and all the. schools was that the most liked kids had. the longest list of people that they. liked. The most liked kids had the longest list. of people that they liked. Meaning, they. weren't going around all day trying to. be funny, trying to be cool. They were. going around trying to like as many. people as possible. No way. One of the variables was that everyone. had to make a list of kids they liked. And the most popular kids had the. longest lists.

Meaning, they were constantly thinking, "I like that about you. I like that. about you.". This was like relief for me. Cuz it. meant I don't have to show up as. impressive or funny or extroverted or be. good at sports, cuz I'm not. All I have. to do is aggressively like people. So, if you want to be attractive, if you. want to create bonds, friend-wise, romantic-wise, what I want you to be. doing is you're asking these questions. looking for me, too, and then you're thinking, how can I like. this person more?

Like, what could I ask? What could I. find out that I can authentically be. like, I like you. Mhm. And then saying it. Like, I cannot tell you my best. friendships have started when I don't. play it cool. I do not believe in. playing it cool. It doesn't work. I literally I'm like, I like you. Will. you be my friend? Yeah. I'm like, I have a 6 and 1/2 year old. and a 2 and 1/2 year old daughter. And I watch them on the playground, and. it's funny, they're they're like this. They literally will sit in the sandbox. My daughter was like, do you like. trucks? And the boy was like, I like trucks.

And she was like, I like trucks, too. I. was like, oh, me, too moment. Good job, Claire. And then she was like, you want. to be my friend? And he was like, yeah. That's it. They're friends. I was like, this is it? We actually knew. how to do this as kids. Kids, yeah. It's what we used to do, and we've. kind of, you know, we're too cool for. it. I like that you did that and said that. because I do the same thing. Oh, do you? So, no, literally, it's exactly the same. thing. friends? Yeah. I like you. and that never happened, and I love that. because to me it's I I have so many.

friends in LA that when I met them first. time, I said, I think we'd be great. friends. And I'd love I'd love to see if that's. true. And like now, 7 years later, whenever we're out, and everyone be. like, how did you two meet? And then my. friends will always try to be polite and. be like, oh, yeah, we just met through. and I'm like, no, no, no. Let me tell. the story. I said that I liked you, and. I wanted to be your friend. And and I. love living that way because I think it. makes life so clear, it makes life so. easy. Everyone knows where everyone's. intentions are. And if someone is too.

cool for me or doesn't like that, at. least I know. Also, like, I'm I'm allergic to it. Yeah. Like, I don't do well with too cool. people. Like, if you can't even show me. your liking or you're kind of wanting to. put a wall up, we're not going to be. good friends because I love level three. conversations. I like vulnerability. I. like oversharing. So that's like a test also is like, I. think we would be good friends. I like. you. And if they're like, uh. I'm like, cool. Like that's cool. Like I. would rather take the shot than miss it. Yeah.

And so I think like if you're listening, I think it's like let's If you like. someone, like show it. Search for those. me too moments. And then if you like. them, well, first of all, search for. reasons to like them. And if you like. them, say it. That right there is like. the best way to try to find your people. Mhm. That's going to find them. The me too goes a real switch because I. think a lot of us when you approach. someone, if you don't ask about the. weather, you usually try and compliment. someone. And that doesn't work. Vanessa, tell me. why compliments don't work.

We all want to be complimented, but it. makes us feel very uncomfortable. Right? Like there's this weird compliment. economics where it's like, please. compliment me, but don't. It's weird. And it also it it creates an odd. hierarchy a little bit. Right. Where if you're complimenting someone, it separates you. And also you're. putting them in the position of. receiving something they might not be. ready for. Especially, I believe in if you're going. to compliment someone, compliment them. some on them on something that you. share. Yes. Right? So be like, oh my gosh, I have. those shoes. I love them, too. Right?

Are we twinsies? I mean, I guess men. don't usually say twinsies, but like. I'm going to try it now that you said. it. it. Please try it. Twinsies. Just like. see how your male friends respond. And. they'll be like, yes. So I think that if you're going to. compliment, compliment on a shared. similarity. Then you can kind of. celebrate together. If you're. complimenting someone one way, you're. actually putting them farther away from. you, not closer to you. That distance and hierarchy makes so. much sense. Especially when someone's. new. It's different if you know someone. But if you randomly go up to someone and.

go, oh, I really like the color of that. dress, what are they going to say? thanks. Exactly. And now it's like, oh. worse. Worse. If you were to say, "Oh, Vanessa, I like the color of your. dress." I'd be like, "Oh, thank. way. Yeah. I'd be like, "I like your color, too.". Yeah, and it's black. That's what happens. It's like, you. compliment someone on something and. they're uncomfortable. So, what I do is. I'm like, "I'm going to compliment you. back." And I feel so unauthentic. Mhm. Right? Because then I'm like, "I don't. know what to say." And by the way, if. you're going to compliment someone,

don't compliment the tall guy on being. tall. Mhm. Like don't compliment someone on the. trait they didn't even work on. Yes. Like compliment them on something they. worked hard on. Yes. I get it about my eyes all the. time. That's that's the compliment. And. I always say I didn't earn them, so. thanks. Like that's my response because. I'm like, "I didn't do anything. Like. thanks to my parents. Like whatever.". But I also like, what do you do? Then. you're like, "I like your eyes, too.". And the person's like, "They're black.". Like you know. Exactly. Thanks. And then And then. you're stuck. Yeah, and you're stuck. And that's what.

I like about your goal. I really, really. like that advice and I hope everyone. uses it with trying to get a meet too. You have to have a goal to every. conversation. The goal cannot be let me. get to the next question, which is. usually where we get stuck, which is. like, "I'm just going to live in this. like. jumping relationship between like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah." And it's And it's like, "Yeah, where did you grow up? What do. you do for work? Do you have any. siblings?" Like all these questions that. just, you know. Okay, so let's let's let's play this. out. Let's go even deeper. So, let's say.

that someone's doing that to you. Mhm. Okay, so there's two sides of a. conversation. All of my students are. high achievers, very smart, a little. awkward sometimes. Mhm. Those are my. people. So, what happens is they work on. their people skills. They're like, "Yeah, Vanessa, like I got it. I got I. got the context skills. I got the. conversation starters. I'm available, whether that's in work or at play." And. then they're with someone who's doing. that to them. Right? You're with someone. who's like, "So, where are you from? Do you have a lot of siblings?" Okay, so. here's how you break that social script. One is I want you to think of what are. the three questions that you're asked. most. So, I have the same questions I'm.

asked over and over again in social. social settings. And it's usually what. do you do? Where are you from? How did. you get into that line of work? That's a. big one I get. Okay. So, the biggest. mistake you can make is you are bored by. those answers and you show it. Oh, I'm from LA. It's like. right? It's like Yes. Yes, I'm from LA, but it it ends the conversation. So, I. want you to think of what's a way that. you could answer that question that.

gives a hook or a story or it's a funny. moment and it is a bridge to you asking. them something else back. Yeah. How can you answer those questions. that's going to slightly shift or. transform the conversation and makes you. more charismatic? So, I even think like. if someone would ask you how are you, you can answer it oh, seven out of 10. today. Right? Or like better on the inside than. the outside. Right? Like whatever it is, like just. like break the script. So, if you break. the script with something purposeful and.

you're like, okay, when someone asked me. where I'm from and I say LA, I know I. don't want to talk about LA. Mhm. I moved for a reason. I live in Austin, Texas now and I want to talk about. something else. So, what I will often. say is, you know, I'm from LA and about. six years ago I moved to Austin, Texas. and now I'm a cowgirl. Yeah. Right? And I wear cowboy boots and. that's like my thing. And then we get. into a whole much more interesting. conversation about cowgirls or Austin, whatever they are interested in then I'm. looking for me too's. Yes. Right? Oh, I've been to Austin. I love. Oh, yeah, tell me about Austin. Do you.

like tacos? I like tacos, too. Right? So, like it it weaves. And so, what are. the three questions you get asked the. most often? And what are three answers. that you can use to get you to more me. too moments that authentically like. them. The other thing you can do, my. last when I'm like out I've been trying. and trying to steer is I will play. verbal games and I've actually never. talked about this on a podcast before, but so we're going to see how this. sounds. But I really do do which is I. love guessing games. Like I love them. So, if someone's like, "How many. siblings do you have?" I'll be like,

"Guess.". That's good. And I'm so curious what they say, right? Cuz then first of all, people are like, "What?" Like they're like surprised that. I have a second. I'm like, "Guess.". Yeah. What do you think I am? I'm going to say Let's guess. do it. Let's guess, Jay. I'm because I don't know. So, Yeah, tell. Yeah, guess. I'm going to guess that you have. one sibling. More. I was going to say three? More. No way. More, yeah. Five? Four. Four, okay.

And I so I have an older brother. five. Oh, you like odd numbers. I have an older brother and three. younger sisters. Wow. you can guess. And so, that already. makes it way more playful, right? It's. always fun like if someone guesses I'm. an only, I'm like, "How dare you? How dare you?" No, but then then we talk. about onlys. And then I, instead of. asking them back, I say, "Can I guess. yours?". Yeah. And like, sometimes I get it right. And. by the way, that feels really good. Guess mine. Oh, gosh. I don't know. Oldest. No, I say wait, you don't don't. don't don't answer. I just yelled.

Sorry. I'm leaving I'm leaving the. conversation. No, youngest youngest. You mean. Are you the youngest? No, I'm the oldest. You got it right the. first time. I have one younger sister. One younger sister. Yeah. Okay, so I So, it's like fun to play the. game and then you kind of like guess and. then I can be like, "Oh, I didn't I. didn't peg you. I was thinking oldest or. youngest." So, you can kind of have the. back and forth that totally changes the. dynamics of the conversation. And so, that's my last resort is you can. play a game with them. that. I also, um, love like if.

I got this actually from Twitter and it. totally works. If. says someone says they're from. something. So, where are you from? I'm from London. The Windy City. But I always say the. Windy City. It's not the Windy City. And they're like, Isn't that like Seattle or something. like that? I don't even know. I don't know. San Francisco. No, it's San Francisco. Yeah, it's Chicago or something. But you just like you can make like. funny responses back and then people and. you have a ban. It just broke the. script, right? Like being a little. playful in conversation also can create. mutual moments because you'll find your. person. Yes. Right? Like I try to be funny.

occasionally and if you laugh at my. jokes, we're going to be friends. If you. don't laugh at my jokes, it's not going. to go well, right? What What I love about that is we often. put so much pressure on people to be. interesting and pressure on ourselves to. be interesting and we think it's about. having this unique conversation starter. or this amazing point of view or this. debate that we you know, it's I feel. like we put so much pressure like we got. to start giving a TED Talk to the person. Yeah. sitting next to us and actually that. disengages them. I love the guessing. game. I think it applies to any of those.

three questions you just shared. Where do you come from? Where do you. live now? All of that and it makes it so. much more fun and you get a sense of. what someone's personality is. Mhm. And I like the interactivity. It's. almost like I'm sure you feel this way. when you're on stage a lot and you're. talking to an audience. My least. favorite thing is someone saying give a. 60-minute keynote and don't engage the. audience in the conversation because all. of a sudden it's one way and I think. that's what we think interesting. conversations sound like where we can. just talk about our lives and come.

across interesting. Yeah. I also think it's so much pressure. to be interesting because what is. interesting is different for different. people. And so if you're trying to be. interesting, it's worse than fake it. till you make it. It's what do I have to. do to perform for you? And I don't think interactions should be. a performance. They should be. intentional and you're building towards. something which is. do I belong? Do I feel accepted by you? Mhm. And this is like a question that I want.

everyone to ask themselves, especially. when you think about those first. impression words. Sometimes people who. trigger you badly, it's because you. don't feel safe. I don't mean necessarily physically. safe. I mean emotionally safe where. there's um topics that you're a little. scared to bring up or there's things you. walk on eggshells cuz you don't know how. that's going to go. And so the other. test you have as you're doing this back. and forth, you're getting to know them, is do I feel safe to share my real. answer? Do I feel safe to answer something. that's not on script?

Mhm. It's like not what everyone else would. answer. Do I feel safe to not be. interesting? Right? Like if we have this pressure of. being interesting, it's a performance. If you're like, I'm just going to answer. and like this may or may not like click. with you, then that's the ultimate. belonging, I think. Yeah. Yeah. What if What if you're in. one of these conversations. and you want it to end? Oh, yeah. Where like you're just like I want this. to end. I've been looking around. I'm. trying to just edge towards the door. like side step, but.

I'm trying to figure it out, but like. this guy's hitting on me, this girl's. talking to me, this person's just. wasting my time. I'm in this bar, I'm in. this gym. What what I do? This is called the art of a graceful. exit. And it is a skill. You have to learn it, because there is going to be times where. you're just not with your person, and. that's okay. Okay, so here's what you. do. It's three steps. Okay, step number. one is you begin to non-verbally signal. that you want out. Okay? So we are we. kind of subconsciously pick up on these. cues. So first is you want to point your.

toes towards the door. When we're aligned with someone, we. typically angle our toes towards the. person. When we're not into someone, we. typically angle our body and our toes. outwards. Funny anecdote here is we also. tend to angle our angle our toes towards. the person we have a crush on. Mhm. or the most interesting person in the. room. So whenever I'm like at office. parties, I can almost always decide the. office crushes. Fascinating. will subconsciously, even if they're in. conversation, they'll be pointing. towards the person they like the most. So when you move your toes towards the. door, it just it subtly indicates that. your body is angled outwards. Then I.

also want you to make less eye contact, right? So that could be an overhead. gaze. I would never normally do this in. a good conversation, but you want to. subtly signal to someone, I need to. break, right? I need to break up. So. then you're overhead gazing, you're. going to glance at the door or the. bathroom. That's also another very small signal, "Up, I'm disengaged." Okay, so that's. that one is nonverbally signal. Second. is you're going to use verbal cues. The. thing that I want you to do is ask for. future plans. When someone is in a conversation, they're very present. When I would like. to go, I'll be like, "What's your plan.

tomorrow?". Yes. "Got any big plans for the weekend?". Because wait, this is step number three. They're going to then answer, you know, what is their plan tomorrow, what is. mine for the weekend, they'll be like, "Well, have so much fun tomorrow or this. weekend. It was so great talking to you, and I'll see you later.". Three steps. The final step is just wish. them well on those future plans. Thank. them for the conversation. Give them a. handshake or a high five, and then say, "I'll see you later.". Yeah, that's great because you can't. always just be like, "Oh, I'm just going. to go get dessert" cuz you might not be. You can't be like, "Oh, I'm leaving.".

with you. I'll come with you. The nightmare reaction. Like, "Why did I say that? Oh, you're. not leaving the party yet?" You just. want to talk to someone else. And look, I'm radically honest. There. are times at parties where I will say to. someone, you know, "It's been so great. speaking to you. I kind of want to make. the rounds. There's some really cool. people here. Can we chat later?". Yeah. Like, that's okay, too. Right? If you. feel comfortable with that, but the the. three steps works. It's like very. seamless. And then there's one other. nonverbal cue, which I'm going to teach you, that use. sparingly, but nodding makes a.

difference with the amount that people. speaks. So, research shows that a slow. triple nod, 1 2 3, makes the other. person speak 67% longer. Yeah. So, if you're in a conversation. and you're going, "Mhm. Mhm. Mhm.". You're literally telling them. nonverbally, "Tell me more.". Yeah. Just keep on talking. So, if you don't. So, if you're in a good conversation and. you like what they're saying, please use. the triple nod. It's great. Like, you do. it a lot as an interviewer. I love it.

cuz then it makes me keep going. But if you're like, "I don't want this. person to keep talking," stop nodding. Stop nodding because you're subtly. encouraging them. And then you could. also try a fast triple nod. So, a slow. triple nod shows engagement. A fast. triple nod shows. I'm done. It's like this. So, here's a. good one. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Versus Mhm. Yeah. Right? It's like a subtle way of being. like, "Got it. Got Wrap it up. I got it. I got it." So, just like subtle. Right?

You don't want to offend anyone. 67%. Longer. Yeah. That makes so much sense. I do it in the. podcast all the time. Yes. And I've actually been in podcasts where. the interviewer Some interviews are. trained not to nod at all. And I find it. really hard to talk to someone like. that. Where I have to talk. And yeah, if I. speak to someone who's not nodding at. all, I find it really challenging. It's It's so This is a really important. thing is when we're talking about cues, there's a cycle. It goes decode, encode, internalize. So, you are sending me.

cues. That is called encoding. So, encoding is sending signals to someone. else. You're sending me signals of. warmth. Nodding is a warmth cue. Head. tilting is a warmth cue. Right? So, that's warmth. So, you encode me that. signal. I decode it. Ah, he likes this. answer. I internalize it. Keep talking. As this cycle goes on and on, if someone. is stoic or mute or they under signal, it kind of breaks that cycle. Right. And it isolates the other person. I work. with a lot of leaders and they're they.

wonder why their team doesn't like open. up to them or why they're seen as. intimidating or cold and it's because. they have they're under signaling. They're not sending enough warmth. signals to make the other person feel. like there's this connection. The other. way that decoding, encoding, internalizing works is negative cues. So, muting is one. It stops the cycle. Positive is the next where we're like, "Ah, this is going well.". Negative is the other one. So, there was. a research study. They wanted to know if how negative cues. affect someone's physiology. So, they.

devised a little experiment where they. had a participant walk into a room of a. bunch of other people and they had. someone in the room, a confederate, signal a sign of social rejection. So, a. social rejection cue is an eye roll. It's a scoff. Right? It's like a a lip purse. They had. them signal this towards this. unsuspecting participant. And what they. found was once the participant, the. moment they spotted the social rejection. cue, their own field of vision. increased. Their pupils dilated.

What happens when that when our pupils. dilate is we can take in more of our. environment. Like our literally their. field of vision increased. Why? If we. see a cue of social rejection, our brain. is like, uh-oh. Is anyone else signaling social. rejection? What did I do wrong and. where's my escape route? Meaning that if we spot a negative cue, it changes our body. Yes. So, if you're in an interview or on a. date and you're like, I don't I don't I. don't feel great about this, listen to. that cuz that is your body language. reading part of your mind that picked up.

on a negative cue that your brain. doesn't like. It could have been a. subtle cue of social rejection. It could. have been a vocal cue change that you. didn't notice. It could be a negative. facial expression or gesture. So, for. example, in that study they were doing. social rejection cues, but they even. found if someone flashes a fear micro. expression at you, so they widen the whites of their eyes. and. like that, we catch the fear. Like our. own amygdala begins to fire. And so, if. you feel uneasy with someone, listen to. it. Because it means that your body has.

picked up on something that it did not. like that was a threat and you should. dig deeper into that. So, let's say you you were at the gym. You said, "Hey.". They said, "Hey." back. You ended up going on a couple of dates, right? You've graduated from the gym to. a restaurant or a coffee shop or. whatever. And now you're on a date with that. person and. you're trying to figure out whether. whether lying or telling the truth. You're trying to figure out whether you. feel good around them or not.

Yeah. And you don't really figure that out. until third or fourth day anyway cuz you. don't really know enough. You're not. getting enough cues. Going back to your. point, especially if you're spending. time with people in a very limited. environment. Totally. you're seeing someone in a coffee shop. or a restaurant or going to the movies. or whatever it may be, you're seeing. them for 1 and 1/2 hours, 2 hours and. it's controlled. Mhm. You start to spend more time with them. Yeah. What are the negative cues we miss. because we're infatuated or attracted to. someone?

The research shows that it takes 200. hours to become close friends with. someone. So a soul a soulmate or a partner, it's. even more. That's a lot of hours. And we. tend to make very big decisions about a. relationship in the first 6 hours. Not. enough. And so what you said was really. important is first as I want you to get. off script. Coffee shops, restaurants, those are. very controlled environments. They. probably done those dates a lot. I want. you to get off script. I want you to do. what I call the car challenge, which is.

I want you to drive somewhere an hour. away with them. Oh, wow. That's a lot of trust. Yeah, it's a Well, so you've had three. or four dates, right? And you're like, "Okay, what do we do?". Yeah, you got to feel safe. Yeah, I feel safe, right? So but but. you're like, "Is this clicking? Are we. clicking?" You might just be on script. It might be like just it's it's too. vanilla. It's too the same. Or maybe you. are picking up on something. So the road. trip challenge is when you pick. somewhere an hour away that's a. different activity. It could be hiking. It could be pickleball. It could be. art class. It could be a wine tasting. Anything that's not restaurant or coffee.

shop, normal things. You have an hour. there, about an hour activity to. activity, and an hour back. You're going. to find out in that setting how they. drive or how they listen to you, how. they stop stop and get gas, stop and. pick up some snacks. Like we're trying. to see them in a lot of different. environments. How do they treat people? How do they treat your space? You want. to see them off script. That's the very. first thing. Then you're going to be. looking for what I call cues of. inauthenticity. Cues of inauthenticity is when your. verbal does not match your nonverbal. This is what liars do. So, we do a lot.

of lie detection at Science of People. because I'm fascinated by what are the. cues that humans do when they're not. telling the truth. And all of the lie. detection cues are when there's. incongruence. It means someone is saying something, but they're not showing it. So, nodding. is a good example of this. So, we've. found we we have a little game we play. with people in our lab where we ask them. two truths and a lie. Share two truths. about yourself and lie. Sometimes people will say yes, but shake. their head no. Or say no, but shake their head yes. That's an incongruence, and liars will.

often do this. So, you'll ask, you know, "So, what do you think of the new girl?". "You know, she's um she's great.". Yeah. And they're shaking their head no, but. they're saying yes. Yeah, I've not. There's a hesitation there, but we don't. even notice it. But once you start to. look out for it, you'll start to see. these incongruences. I've just had a full light bulb moment. Like, I'm like, "Oh my gosh." Like, I'm. like, "I do that." Seen other people do. it. Like, you know, you just Yeah. Yeah, wow. Um and also could be doubt. Right? Like, someone someone could not know if they.

like the girl or not, so they're kind of. um yeah, kind of sort of, right? Um uh. by the way, India, Bulgaria, and. Pakistan, nodding is a little bit. different. very different. Yeah, yeah. I know India. for sure. Right. Right. So, I just like to make. that note. So, looking for incongruence. They're saying, "I'm happy," but they're. not showing happy. Like a fake smile, for example, is um. real smiles only reach all the way up. into these upper cheek muscles. So, when. I'm smiling all the way, I get these. crow's feet, right? If someone says to. you, "Oh, I'm so happy for you.". And their face.

is so fake. Just dead on top. Right? Or. too much Botox, either one. That's. getting harder. It's making my job. harder. It's making my job harder. That. you know, uh-oh, there's not real. happiness here. And this happens a lot. in dating when you'll you'll say your. truth. You'll your passion or your value. or your love, and they'll go, "Oh, that's nice.". And they're giving you a fake smile. They're saying that's verbally okay, and. your brain goes, "Uh-uh." That's often. times your body has picked up on, "Ooh, they said it was good, but I didn't feel. it was good." So, you're looking for.

incongruent cues or clues that someone. is not stating what they actually feel. And when you're off script, you see way. more of them. Yeah. You see way, way more of them. I also. think there's some cues that we can't. read. For example, um we catch fear. through smell. So, I mentioned smell. before. This is a study that completely. blew my mind. They brought people into their lab and. sold them off into two different groups. They had them wear sweat suits, like. sweat suits that caught their sweat. The. first group had to run on the treadmill. The second group skydived the first.

time. They had two collections of sweat, right? They had treadmill sweat and fear. sweat. Then they had unsuspecting. participants in an fMRI machine smell. these two sweat samples. They had no. idea what they were smelling. Gross, right? I hope they paid them well. So, gross. People who smelled the fear sweat caught. the fear. They smelled this random thing and their. own amygdala began to light up. They. began to feel afraid. So, sometimes when you're with someone. and you're like, "I just feel so. uneasy.".

Yeah. There's also this unreadable aspect, but. I want you to listen to it because our. brains are so smart. They are working to. protect us. And so, if you you're like, "I feel off," that's your alarm bells. It's probably your amygdala signaling. something does not feel right here. Gosh. I cannot believe you can tell that much. from scent. Like from smell. Oh, it's coming. I That's the studies. are coming. I cannot wait for these. olfactory labs. No, now that's all anyone's going to do. I know. Just go around sniffing people in the. park. I'm into it. Like, if someone runs by. me, I'm like, I want to smell.

I want to smell them. I think it's. important. Yeah, but how much do obviously how much. does how much do you perfumes help. people lie there? So, all these studies are based on. natural body scent. So, they In these. studies, they make them wear a white. t-shirt. They don't let them wear. deodorant or anything like that. So, it's natural smell. I actually think. that sometimes too much cologne or. perfume is like masking. Like I don't know if you've ever been. with someone where you're like, "Whoa.". It's too much. I I don't like it. I. think in dating actually you should. under scent. Yeah. And like let your natural scent fly. Yeah, it's really funny cuz yeah yeah my. my wife's definitely into like natural.

essential oils. She won't She won't. really use any of And And I'm happy with. that, but then I have one cologne that I. love that she hates. But everyone else. in the world loves. But she likes my. natural scent, but she doesn't want me. to. Yeah, so it's. an interesting one. But But everywhere. else I go, everyone loves it. So, I'm. like, "I'm going to keep spraying this.". Oh my gosh. You're like, "Why for other. people?". True story, yeah. It's like my wife. loves me already. Uh But But you know what's really. interesting about that is I think.

sometimes we all know that. I know that there's a big difference. between what you're sharing and teaching. and people pleasing. There's a big difference. But to the untrained eye, it's a fine. line where people are now trying to get. a reaction. And therefore, they're starting to say. things that they may not mean, which is. not what you're suggesting at all. I also think like I look at people. pleasing as our deep desire to be liked.

Yeah. It is so safe for us to be liked. And. so, when I look at the research. So, research from Princeton University. found that as humans, we are trying to. answer two basic questions about other. human beings. Can I trust you and can I. rely on you? We are constantly trying to. assess people's warmth and competence. Warmth and competence makes up 82% of. our judgments of people. 82%. And so, warmth is actually what we're. talking about here. In that, most people. have an imbalance of warmth and.

competence. We're very high in warmth, maybe not as high in competence. Or. we're signaling a lot of warmth, but not. signaling enough competence. Highly warm folks, people who are off. the charts in warmth, their primary. desire is to be liked. Highly competent folks, this is a lot of. my students, they want to be right. So, a highly competent person, they're. very at work, they want to be on agenda, they want to get it right. You know. you're in relationship with a highly. competent person if they constantly. Google fact check you.

Right? They're less concerned about you. liking them, but they just want to make. sure they get the facts right. A highly warm person wants you to like. them, which means they often sacrifice. their credibility to be liked. Yeah. That is actually what people pleasing. is, in my opinion. Right. I think people pleasing is someone who. goes, I so want to be liked that I'm. willing to throw my competence out the. window just so that you like me. They're. sacrificing the need to be liked for. their need to be respected. I say to people pleasers, what true communication is is showcasing.

both. You can be both liked and respected. You. can be both friendly and credible. You. can be assertive and also be nice. Mhm. One of my most popular videos is a nice. person's guide to being assertive. because you don't have to sacrifice one. for the other. And so, for my people. pleasers, what I would say is, your goal. sure is to be liked, but it's also to. make sure that people respect who you. are and your values. So, if you're. having conversations with me too. moments, what you're actually doing is, do you value that?

Yeah. Do I value that? Great, we both value. it. When it becomes inauthentic, when I. think we get into even like. manipulation, is I don't like that. and I'm going to pretend I do. Yeah. Right, when someone has a fake me too. moment. Like I was just watching a. uh episode of the Kardashians and they. were interviewing someone in a job. interview. This is the biggest problem. in job interviews. And they asked him, do you use QuickBooks? And he was like, yeah. And they said, what do you use. QuickBooks for? And he was like,

QuickBooking? Like he did not know. Yeah, well quick booking. And that was inauthentic because he. wanted to be liked. He wanted to say he. had it. He should have just said, "No, I. haven't, but I'm a fast learner.". Yeah. When I think people pleasers get into. trouble is they pretend they like. something that they don't. And that is. manipulative, but also it doesn't serve. you or them. Yeah. And we do it and people do it to. us. Right? Like if we're all honest, like everyone kind of does it. Someone. may overtly do on a date especially, especially in the beginning. Yes. And then you realize afterwards that.

they didn't really know what that was or. love that type of food or. accidentally have lied. Yes. And they pick up on your lie. Yeah. Right? So you're like, "I I love cats. I love them." Now, I'm allergic to cats, but if I'm like, "I just love a cat.". Yeah. And the other person's like, "Ugh." And. they got this signal in their body that. was like, "I don't I don't know about. this person." But actually it was cuz. you were just trying to be likable. Mhm. And I would much rather you say, "You. know what? I love the idea of cats, too. Yeah. But I'm allergic." Right? And then.

everyone laughs and it's okay, right? And if that's a deal breaker for them, wouldn't you rather know? Totally. Like in dating especially, I would. rather you create allergies for the. person. So my approach to dating, I have a. couple of single friends, is I'm like, "Don't be liked by everyone. Don't have. a profile or go on a first date and try. to be the most liked person. In fact, if. you have things that really matter to. you, share them up front." I had a. friend who was trying to date and was. having a lot of trouble and I'm like, "What are you putting in your profile.

about you?" And it was the most vague, generic, like, "I love beaches." It's. like everybody likes a beach. Like. everybody likes that. You know, and she. had all the very And I said, "Get really. specific, you know, like you love. beaches, but what do you hate?". Yeah. She's like, "I hate camping." I'm like, "Say it.". Yeah. Like why even go on a date with a guy. who loves camping? Like that's not going. to be you. And so I think that if you. don't like something, if you're looking. for me too moments and a not me too. moment comes up, what an opportunity. Yes. You have an opportunity to be super.

authentic and be maybe a little bit. funny and still accept them for who they. are, but realize, "Okay, we're not going. to we're not going to drive on that.". And if that's a deal breaker for you, wouldn't you rather know it? Yeah. And it And it starts a great. conversation, too. I think that's the. point that you think you're going to. suddenly take away the energy from a. conversation, but if you have an. interesting point of view, you have a. different direction to take it, it can. be great. Some of my closest friends, we tease. each other about our biggest. differences, right? Like that becomes a. beautiful friendship, too. So, I think. that's where people pleasers get in. trouble and they feel bad about. themselves because they they what. happens in the end, they feel unliked.

Mhm. And like nothing's worse than feeling. unlovable or unlikable. Totally. I want to go into the part you. mentioned there of manipulation. Mhm. Because I think people who are. charismatic and narcissist often have. quite similar traits, or at least today we talk about them in. that way. And it's hard because. some people just have that power and. control and feel like they're almost. moving everyone else around like they're. pawns. And often it can be quite. magnetic. We can be quite drawn to it at.

first because it feels. Yeah, it feels like there's awe and. reverence and there's this feeling of, "Wow, you blew me away." And you have so. much magnetic energy, only to realize it. was manipulation and narcissism. How do. we tell the difference between charisma. and narcissism? This is why I like the car test. Is. typically narcissists have a pattern. Narcissists blow you away with their. charisma at first. You are just in awe. They know how to signal warmth and.

competence. They're finding me two. moments. You're like, "Wow, I'm. clicking." And their confidence is. contagious. We love to be around highly. confident people, which often. narcissists are very confident. So, in. that first hour, two, three hours, we're. blown away. Then typically they go one. of two ways. The first way is narcissists, if they. don't get what they want, even a little. bit, they go into victim mode. So now. there's there's a misunderstanding about. narcissists, which is that they're. always confident. When a narcissist. doesn't get what they want or doesn't.

get what they feel they deserve, and. listen for that word with narcissists, I. don't deserve this kind of treatment. I. deserve something better. I'm worth. more. Be very aware of those words. If. they don't feel like they get what they. deserve or they're not getting what. they're worth, they become victims. Listen for that victim language because. narcissists. will sometimes be very charismatic, but. they're playing the victim card. And the. victim card is really dangerous because. then it's everyone else's fault. And. then all of a sudden you're enabling it. You're like, "Whoa, I have to protect.

you. You're so charismatic." And that's. how they are manipulative with people is. they play the victim card and you want. to protect them. So be very careful of. that dynamic because I think that we. often are like, "Well, she's not a. narcissist. She's suffering. She needs my help.". That is often actually a narcissist is. they're playing the victim because they. want your help and that makes them feel. good. That's one pattern. The second. pattern is that narcissists can be. high-conflict people. A high-conflict person is they're very. charismatic and they blow you away with.

their charisma, but they create all these little. disagreements, fights, they create. conflict around them and they step and. they back up and they go, "I don't know. I don't know how that happened." But. they're constantly stirring or stoking. conflict. Watch out for that. That's the. other reason why those car trips, getting out of restaurants and coffee. shops is it's very easy to not have. conflict in those very controlled. settings. But if someone cuts you off on. the road, or someone shortchanges you, or someone's late, you get to see, oh,

wow, they play victim or um they're. creating conflict where there doesn't. really need to be conflict. So then when. they're brainstorming in the car cuz. there's something that happens when. you're next to someone. Yeah. I think they verbalize differently. Like. typically women like to dyad, have. conversation like this, face-to-face. Men sometimes like to have conversations. side by side. It's why they like talking. at a bar, because they're side by side. They like talking on a walk or a hike. They like talking in a car. So, sometimes if you're next to someone and. they're just driving or you're driving.

and they're listening, they'll say. things they wouldn't normally say in a. in a face-to-face dyad. And you might. hear, "Oh, that's interesting. Those. patterns. I I didn't know that you felt. that way about that thing." And so, you. want to make sure that you're looking. for those secret patterns of. manipulators, not just the obvious ones. Yeah, that I mean that what you just. said there about the way we sit and. speak to people, it's a lot more easy to be open up with. someone if you're not staring eye to. eye, especially for men, I assume. Yes. And there's a sense of. Yeah, there's a sense of we're kind of.

moving in the same direction rather than. against each other that kicks in. I. think there was a. There was a story about how Steve Jobs. always used to walking meetings like. that. He always wanted to walk side by. side with people. Yeah, so I like with friends, I or even. if business friends come into town, I. always ask for a walk and talk, always. And I never say let's get coffee. I'm. always like let's get tacos. Yes. Like just to like break it up, break the. script a little bit. And I do find. there's something about walking and. movement that also you have more breath, you're looking around. I I have a secret.

feeling that when I walk and talk with. someone, they're more creative. Yeah. They're like more open-minded. Like they. they go places that we could never have. gotten. I swear we could have never. gotten over a coffee. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I I think the big. thing I'm taking away is this off-script. idea. It's this breaking the script. It's interrupting the pattern. Because. we're all so caught up in our patterns. And by the way, that makes you boring as. well. It makes you less interesting. Just as you said earlier, if you're. being asked the same three questions,

it's hard to answer them in an. interesting way. It's hard to make how. many siblings you have an interesting. conversation on the the. time over coffee. But when they're they're guessing, it's. always interesting. Exactly. And that's And that's what I. love how you've interrupted the pattern, whether that's through the questions you. ask, whether that's through. gamification, whether it's through. changing the path, the way you're. connecting. And also, let's get to the chemistry of. this. When you give an exciting answer. or a different answer, you are creating.

dopamine. Now, dopamine does a lot of. things in our bodies, but in. conversation, dopamine is the chemical. of motivation and excitement. So, if I. ask you a question or answer the. question in a different way, I. highlighted a new a new neural pathway. My brain went, "Ooh, something new." And. that dopamine. does a couple things. One, it gets you. excited. It makes you feel more. positive. Two, it Dr. John Medina found that. dopamine makes you more memorable. So, if you're in conversation and. someone's gone on 51st dates, or like.

you're in a business meeting, this. especially in business, I say to people, "Create dopamine in the boardroom." You. got to make your presentation stand out. You got to create dopamine in an. interview. If you're pitching, I work. with a lot of entrepreneurs, you got to. create dopamine in those investors, because dopamine is what makes the brain. go, "Ah, this person gave me pleasure. I. want to remember them.". When you trigger dopamine, people are. more likely to remember your name, what you talked about, and what you care. about. So, if you want to be more. memorable, the best thing you can do is.

try to create excitement moments for the. both of you. Me too moments are. typically excitement. That's the secret. motivation about why I want to have me. too moments. And then also sharing. stories. I kind of have like a story. toolbox. I like keep all my favorite. stories in a little note on my phone, cuz I just like telling them, you know? And so like start collecting or. cataloging stories, cuz those are gifts. for people. You tell a good story, someone's like, "Ha.". Yeah. Like they like love it. Um and then. lastly, is juice excitement. So, when we. talk about conversation starters, I have. a couple favorites. So, if you're going. to stop asking, "What do you do? Where.

are you from?". I love context cues. The other thing you. can do with people you already know, especially at work, is ask, "Working on. anything exciting these days?". So, like I had this problem where I. would see people who I kind of knew, like friends of friends, or like family. members I don't see all the time, and be. like, "How's life?". Like, "What do you do?" So, now I always. ask, "Working on anything exciting these. days?". That is a dopamine gift for their brain. Mhm. Cuz in their brain then they have to go,

"Oh!". You broke their script. Exciting, exciting, exciting. They're literally. searching their brain for something. exciting. When they find it they go, "Oh. yeah, you know, actually." And they tell. you. Mhm. So, you're actually like juicing. dopamine. You're borrowing it from. another area of their life. And by the. way, if they say no, what a great opportunity for. vulnerability. Mhm. Like I've asked it maybe one out of. every 10 times. I'll say, "Working on. anything exciting? Or have anything. exciting coming up?" And they'll be. like, "No.". Yeah. And I'll be like, "Woah!". "What what's going on? Tell me what's.

actually happening in your life.". Yeah. And we have skipped, "How are you?". "Busy, good.". If you ask someone how are you they're. going to be like, "Busy, good. Good, busy. How about you?". Yeah, 100%. I'd rather like get past that. And so, asking that question is an unlock. So, keep that one in your back pocket cuz. it's my favorite. You literally read my mind. I was about. to shift to work. So, let's do. You already went ahead of it, which is. great. So, I'm really glad that you gave. the alternative because I've had a lot. of people that have I I've asked that. question to lately. Mhm. And they actually feel so much pressure.

Mhm. Because I think we're living at this. time now where everyone's doing. something so big, which is what it looks. like. Yeah. And so then when you ask someone that, they're scared that they don't have. something big to say. Totally. And so they either shrink, and they. actually get scared of that. conversation. They go, "I don't really. want to talk about that." I I get a lot. of that sometimes. Or someone will like, "Oh, that's a lot of pressure. Exciting? I'm just trying to get by." Right? Like. that happens. And it's interesting that. even though it's such a better question.

than what do you do, how's life, How's it going?" It can create some. friction. And so, I really like talking. about it when it doesn't go your way. So, I just want to acknowledge it takes. courage to break scripts. Yeah. I know scripts are comfortable. Like, I know that the reason why we're. like, "How are you? Good." is because. it's safe. Mhm. And so, I want you to just acknowledge. yourself if you're thinking about asking. these questions. Like, it does take some. social courage, but it's worth it. Mhm. And so, yeah, we got to harness like, okay, I might be uncomfortable. You.

might Someone might not have a good. answer to that or a good answer. I. didn't say good answer. They might not. have a an exciting answer. They might be. more vulnerable, but any answer is an. opportunity for a connection. Mhm. Whatever they say, at least it's not a. social script. Yeah. And your other option, so you can accept. it with vulnerability. Oh my gosh, tell. me tell me what is is it been hard? What's going on? Or you can have your. own answer. So, I've asked someone that. question. They're like, Huh. And they kind of are thinking about it. And I go, "Well, while you're thinking. about it, here's what's exciting with.

me." And then I I I take the ball back. That's good. That's good. Right? So, conversation is like soccer, right? We're passing this ball back and. forth or basketball. I don't really play. sports. What's a sport you like passing? Rugby? I don't know. So, like like you. pass the ball back and forth, but in. basketball you're supposed to dribble. Right? So, like. I shouldn't do sports metaphors. I. really shouldn't. I don't know anything. about sports. Basketball was the closest. Okay. It's going to be hard to find another. one. the basketball back and forth. When I. ask, "Doing anything exciting recently?". I pass the ball to you. And then you're. like holding the ball. And then you're like, "If you can't.

think of it, take the ball back.". Yeah. Right? Like, just take it back from. them. So, they're like, And they can listen, they can think. And. that also works really well. Yeah, and any question I always say to. people, any question you are going to. ask someone else, make sure you know the. answer to your own. Totally. Right? Because I think so often we'll. ask a question, and they'll be like, "Well, what about you?". You're like, uh. And you're like, uh. I don't know. You know, and so, be ready. to answer it. I also like I just want to make a like a. push here if if if someone's willing to. be brave, which is we are more. interesting and exciting when we do. exciting interesting things. This means.

getting off social media. This means not watching the show. everyone else is watching. This means. getting up and trying different things. And so I also like a little side like. just like I just want to like share with. the world is like. may we all be always working on. something a little exciting or a little. interesting for ourselves. And if the. side benefit is we have great. conversations, great. When you become. known for asking these questions, you. also inspire others to do something a. little bit courageous. And so for.

example, I have a friend that always. always whenever we get together, he. always asks, "What are you learning?". And the first time he asked me that. question, I was like, "Huh?". I was like, "I'm learning to survive. Yeah. my kids.". But now, I know he's going to ask me. that question. You know what? I'll be. darned, I learn something every time. before I see him. Yeah. Like I will go find something to learn. And you know what? That makes me better. Yes. Like he had the courage to ask me that. question for the first time and me not. have a good answer. And he he rescued. me. He he talked about what he was.

learning. But now, I am better for that question. because I want to learn something every. time I see him. And speaking of work, I. noticed so my team is all over the. world. Yay, Science People Team. We're. all over the world and I noticed that we. have a team call virtually on Tuesdays. I noticed that like the first 5 minutes. of our call was like this like kind of. small talk, like a little bit negative, kind of awkward. And so I thought, "You. know what? We're going to have a new. routine that the moment we get on the. call, we all share tell me something.

good.". Mhm. And so our team meeting always starts. with tell me something good. We go. around and everyone shares something. good, something small, something big. And not only does it make our team call. so much more interesting because I learn. most interesting things about my team, but also one of my team members told me. that Monday is her do something good day. because she wants to have something good. to share in the meeting. Yeah. So like be the person known for it. Like. do an icebreaker in your team meetings. I send out an ice breaker every Monday. in my newsletter. Every Monday I have a. work-appropriate, somewhat exciting, kind of interesting ice breaker that's a.

gift to you. Yeah. So, like, be the person known for. bringing those ice breakers. And people. might grumble, they might roll their. eyes, but you know what? Secretly they. like it. Yeah, of course they do. Secretly they like it. And if they. don't, they're not your person. Yeah. What was this Do you know what Give me. some of the cues that. Yeah. So, like, I always try to think of. something that's like breaking the. script but a little interesting. So, like, I think that this week was um are. you an introvert, ambivert, or. extrovert? Got it. Very helpful, by the way. Like, you. should know in your friend group and. your work team who is an introvert, extrovert, or ambivert because. introverts. get energy from being alone.

And especially at work, they are more. creative alone. So, the worst thing you can do to an. introvert is have a brainstorm meeting. where you don't tell them what you're. brainstorming. So, you bring them into. the room and you're like, "Okay, guys, let's brainstorm all the big ideas for. next year." And they're like, they're trying to think in their head. If you would just give them a little. warning beforehand, they would come very. prepared. So, you should know who needs. that warning time. Extroverts get energy. from being with people. Now, at work, how this shows up is if an extrovert has.

a good day, they want to celebrate with. people. They want to hop on a call, they. want to pop by your office, they want to. chit-chat your ear off. Good to know. If. they have a bad day, they also want to. call you, chit-chat, or stop by your. office. And so, you need to know who's. their person. It shouldn't be an introvert. And so, this is like pair the extroverts. together. Right? Like, I have a B. Wonderful sales team and they are my. extroverts. And I'm not an extrovert, I'm an ambivert. And so, they have a. Slack channel that I don't even know how. to log in to Slack. Me, too. I cannot. I cannot Slack. I don't know.

if it's a verb or it's a noun, but I. can't do it. But they love it and. they're all extroverts together. And so, I'm like, "Go, be extroverts, my sales. people. Yes." So, you should be very. purposeful. So, that question and that. what my readers have told me is it's. sparking these conversations of like, "How can I serve you?". Yes. Like, you're an introvert, so if. you're having a bad day, do you want. space? Like, introverts, if you give. them bad news, and then you're like, "Any questions? Want to talk it through?" They're like, "No.". So, the best thing is like, give them. the bad news and be like, "Like, why. don't you take a day or two? We'll.

regroup on Thursday.". So, like, just the way that we. communicate, if we just talk about it, we're honoring everyone, we're serving. everyone. I've always struggled with that because. everyone in my life thinks I'm an. extrovert. I know. Yeah, but I. But I get energy when I'm alone. I work. on my own. I don't like working in. groups and brainstorms. It's not my. vibe. I have to dive deep on my own. Yeah. I like dealing with problems on my own. Yeah. So, I'm not But I'm not an introvert. I'm an ambivert. Yeah. Why? What's the difference? Okay, so 80% of people are ambiverts.

So, it's actually most people. Very few. people are true introverts and true. extroverts. We don't talk about. ambiversion enough. Ambiversion is a. superpower. Ambiversion means that around the right. people, you get energy, and around the. wrong people, you lose energy. I'm in. Yeah. And And around the right. situations, you get energy. Okay. So, if. you're an ambivert, it also means. ambiverts are able to dial up. Right? This is why oftentimes ambiverts are. mistaken as like outgoing introverts or. like social introverts, which is you can. dial. Right? Like, you can dial for 2.

hours, but like, if I go to a happy. hour, and people are always like, "What. are you talking about awkward?" They. don't know that I spent 2 hours flat on. my back in the hotel room. Do you know what I mean? Like, they. don't see the recharge process cuz. ambiverts have this power, we can dial. up, and we can mirror and match. Ambiverts are usually highly empathetic. We are chameleons. We are social. chameleons. So, ambiverts have this. amazing skill where they can dial up to. match an extrovert energy. They can be. the life of the party if they want to, but they also can have these beautiful. quiet introvert conversations, but they.

need a lot of recharge time in between. Mhm. And so, I say it's a superpower, and you. just know how to what charges your. social battery more or less. I will say, for ambiverts, our biggest struggle. Mhm. is ambivalence. Extroverts can like everyone. They can. find something good about everyone, even. with a person who is meh, they can still. get energy because they are fun. Oh, yeah. I've got friends like that. Yeah. I have a friend who is dating right now, and she always says, you know, I never. know on a date if if we're having fun or.

I'm just fun. I have a friend that I say, I'm like, you could have dated or married anyone. because you'll just fall madly in love. You'll be very You'll make it good. You'll make any situation. struggle with this. She really. struggles. She does like, I don't know. which one it is. Yeah. So, that's extrovert. Ambiverts and introverts know who their. toxic people are. They are like, if I'm. not a heck yes, I'm not going. But, ambiverts, we tend to be more people.

pleasing, where we'll be like, do I like. that person? Do they like me? We often have people on our calendar. where we look at it and we're like, we tend to have friends out of habit. Yeah. Like, they've just been friends for like. a long time, and we like default to the. friendship, but actually the friendship. we're not like getting a lot of energy. We're not giving or getting a lot of. energy. So, it's really important for. ambiverts if this is you listening, don't be ambivalent about your. relationships. Ambivalent relationships.

actually take way more out of you than. toxic relationships. When you look at. your calendar and you see precious. social time being given to someone who's. like, meh, you come back a little drained. You come. back a little more tired. It makes you. not believe in relationship. Yeah. And so, I would rather you feel heck yes. about someone than ambivalent. And. that's the a curse of ambiverts. The. only curse of our kryptonite to our. superpower is we can sometimes let a. relationship go that really shouldn't. be. As in, you allow for it to continue. Yeah. Because you don't know how to stop.

it, and you don't want to hurt their. feelings. Yeah. And you wouldn't know how to have a. friendship break up anyway. And you also. I think that sometimes ambiverts aren't. sure what's fun. This is like the weird. I don't know if this is me. Like I'm I. don't know if this is just a woman thing. or not. I don't know if you have this. Sometimes I do things and I'm like, am I. having fun? Mhm. I don't know if it's like. my age or but I will do things that I've. done before and I wonder like is this. fun? Was Netflix at home better? I I. don't know. I think it's an ambivert.

thing. That's something that I've been. sort of. wrestling with of like. sometimes I don't even know what fun is. Yeah. No, no, I want to react to this. Two thoughts that came to mind. To the. first part you talked about, I always. like to remind people that there's two. ways of growing in a friendship. There's. growing together and there's growing. apart. Only those two? Notice how they both say growing. Right? But when we're growing apart, we. think we lost something or we think it. ended or we think we failed and it's. like, no, that was growth, too.

And there was growing together, but we. think if you're growing together, then. it's going right. If you're growing. apart, it's grow- going wrong. And it's. like, no, there's growth. And so I. always like to remind myself that. But. to your other point, I think it's. because. time has become more valuable and our. self-awareness has risen at the same. time as we value time. So I'm the same. I now find it much more frustrating to. watch a bad show in the evening and feel. like I wasted 3 hours of my evening than.

I ever did before. Yeah. So I don't know if it's an ambivert. thing or a personal or an age thing or I. just know that I'm like like me and my. wife went back and forth on that couple. of years ago. I was just like, I'm not. getting anything out of this. That's it. Like if we want to do something. together, I want to do something that. helps us connect and go deep. Yeah. Or I'd rather go read and work, to be. honest, because I'd get so much more out. of that. Yeah. than I would have sitting here and. watching nothing. Yes. Yeah, I and I I feel. Unless it's a great show, obviously.

Of course. And that's magic. And that's. And so I think that like I'm having a a. personal struggle with this right now. where I have some beautiful friendships, but sometimes I'm having conversation. and I'm wondering if we're getting. anywhere. Yeah. Which is I feel bad. I'm like I don't. want to be productive in a friendship, but like I want to like like figure each. other out or like let's be laughing or I. And so sometimes I'm like, "Where are we. going?". Yes. And I don't know what that is, but it's. been a little bit of a a challenge and. I'm also a working mom. And so I think.

sometimes I. there's like less me too moments. Yes. Sometimes unless you're also a working. mom and then I feel lonely. So like I think this is a work in. progress. No, that's really interesting because I. think it's. for people who've optimized all areas of. their life. Me. Yes. There's also a sign of I'm looking. for optimization. But the way you just explained it which. I loved is what we're ultimately doing. is looking for new states of belonging.

Yeah. So what I was saying to one of my. friends the other day, I said, "My. oldest friends in London will always be. my best friends. There is never going to. be someone who knows me that deeply, intimately, or as long.". Yeah. But I need a new set of friends that. have similar lives to me today because I. have different me too's now using your. language. I have different me too's with. them that I can't have with my old. friends. Yeah. And so it's not a replacement or a. substitute, but it is finding people. that I feel.

we both have podcasts and we can talk. about all the challenges that come with. the podcast. We We both uh travel the. world too much and we you know we. whatever. And I need to have someone. that I can vent about those things and. talk about those things. Yes. So I think that's like the. challenge of modern friendship. Yeah. I also think it's the challenge of. dating right now. Do you date someone. who is exactly your same? Or do you date someone where you have. shared values, but you're very. different? Yeah. And I think that's a real challenge in. friendship, too, and I don't know the. answer.

I've found great relationships to not. having the same exact value. I actually. think it's very rare to truly have the. same exact values. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because push comes to shove, you're. going to choose something over the. other. Yeah. But I've found that the best. relationships I have are with people who. respect my values and I respect theirs. That's it. So we don't even have to agree. Yeah. But I really value that your value makes. you you and so I respect it. Yes. And you value that my value makes me me.

and you respect it and that allows us to. operate in our own universe and world. but have a mutual sense of appreciation. I think that also brings up a point of. like I think that we should be One of my. favorite emotions that we don't talk. about enough is awe. Yes. If you respect someone else's value, like hopefully you could even be awed by. it. Like I have friends who have an. incredible work ethic. I don't work that hard, right? Like I I. work, but like I do a lot with my. family. Like I spend a lot of time on. me. Most of my time in the week I only.

spend about 15 hours a week working. The. rest of my. work is momming. But I so respect my friends who just. they just kill it. They're always. working and there's a little bit of awe. there. I'm like, "Wow, like you're just. killing it." And so I think that like. it's who can create awe for you. Yeah. Where they're so kind that you're awed. by them. They're so driven that you're. awed by them. They're so warm that. you're awed by them. And so I think that. like that's a good way to think of it is. it's not the same, it's that you respect.

them enough and you have some me too. moments, of course, but like you can. have a little bit of awe in all your. relationships. Even like in my marriage, I do conversation starters with my. husband all the time and um one of the. ones we did recently was in my. newsletter, which is who is your role. model? Which is different than who is your. hero. Like hero is like more of like a. like idolizing them, whereas like a role. model is someone that you maybe aspire. to be like. And he said me. I was like, what? Why? And he was like, you know, you just you're you're you're you and I. love that about you. And I was like,

wow, like this it's so important that. we're odd by our partners. And so when you're dating, I think a. good little litmus test for yourself is, am I inspired by this person? Like am I in awe of who they are or what. they do or what they believe? Because if. the answer is yes, that's a keeper. Mhm. Like that's a keeper. It's more. important than a checklist. All my ladies listening, I look I know. we love a checklist. Yeah. But those checklists don't always serve. us. Oh, definitely not. Those those uh. parameters are blocking people. Like he. has to be 6'4 and it's like you could.

have a 6'3 guy who is perfect. But the filter has kept him out. Like. it's. Yeah, I I I think like maybe like. lovingly burn the checklist. Yeah. Lovingly. a scented candle. Like burn it because I don't think it's. serving you. and that will help. And then just go out and just, you know, find your person. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I wanted to talk a bit. about women in the workplace. Yeah. Because I think and and as you just. talked about, you know, being a working. mom and I think about women in the. workplace. and I think about how cues and body.

language are very different in how we. perceive men and women. Mhm. And whenever I speak to women, they'll. say, I get seen as being difficult. instead of being direct. Yeah. I'm seen as being argumentative as. opposed to being assertive. Mhm. I'm seen as being moody as opposed to. just having. a failed rejected day or whatever would. have happened. Sure. And I feel like the standards are. different. Mhm. What does a woman do when she feels that.

her directness is being seen as. difficulty? So women are actually facing two. challenges in the workplace today. One. is exactly what you said, that we can be. seen as bossy or dominant when we're. actually just stating our point of view. Assertiveness is bossiness. But on the other hand, we're also. struggling with uh being too likable, being interrupted, being underestimated, being too soft. And so, we actually have. two sides that we're trying to win. We. have this very narrow valley we're. allowed to operate in, right? Can't be. too friendly, can't be too smiley, can't.

be too likable because we won't be taken. seriously. Oh, but can't be too. assertive, can't be too dominant or else. we'll be seen as bossy. So, we have this. super narrow lane with which we can. operate in. So, what I think is really, really important is focusing on the two. traits that matter. These are the only. two traits that matter, which are warmth. and competence. When we are with someone who signals, you can trust me, you can like me, I am. open to you, and you can rely on me, I'm. productive, I'm capable, those are in.

that valley, and they're the most important signals. that you can have in anything. Video. calls, Slack, your LinkedIn profile. And. so, I wanted This is a really weird. challenge I want you to start with. We. have the power of AI now. This is a new. thing that has just come up. I want you to open up your favorite AI. tool, and I want you to do two things. I. want you to copy and paste your LinkedIn. profile. I want you to put it in AI and. ask AI, how warm and competent am I? What's incredible is the warmth and. competence research that came out of.

Princeton, which was done by Dr. Susan. Fiske. It was done in 2002, and it's. been replicated. It's a very solid piece. of research. AI models are trained in it. They know. about warmth and competence. So, put it. in AI, ask, how am I coming across, warmer or competent? AI will tell you, based on the words you use. Then ask it, make it more warm and competent, and. just see what they change. Then what I. want you to do is take five important. emails that you've recently sent. What we don't realize is our cues are. changing the way people treat us.

So, the types of words you use in your. emails are changing people's perception. of your bossiness, or I would say over. over-friendliness. Take five emails you. spent some time crafting. Put them into. AI and ask AI, "How warm am I? How. competent am I? How could I have done. better?" We can use AI as a charisma. coach. And it is incredibly helpful to. see are you leaking? Are you showing. cues of warmth and competence just. verbally? Like forget in person. Like. forget the nonverbal. We have to start.

with the email first. That will be a. really important test right off the bat. See what it says. And it will tell you, "Oh, you're leaning far warm." So, for. example, in our in our research uh we. have students who are off the charts in. warmth. They love emojis. Okay. My highly warm folks, oh my. goodness, they love um emojis and. exclamation points. And they love words like yay, fab, whoop, and wow. Okay. These are my I know I when I I can.

read emails from a a person and be like, "This person's highly warm and they're. interrupted in meetings.". This person is highly warm and they're. not taken seriously. This person is highly warm and they're. getting pushed back on their salary. range. This person is highly warm and. they are not being seen as credible in. their interviews. I can look at your. emails and I can tell you what. professional challenges you're facing. and so can you. Highly competent folks, on the other hand, they under exclaim. They don't use a lot of emojis and they. love data, percents, numbers, and. figures. They love those. In fact, for a. highly competent person, it's physically.

painful to use an exclamation point. It's like, "Ooh, but it's not credible.". But you know what? That means you're. under signaling warmth. It means if you are if you are too. formal, too sterile in your. communications, that could be the reason. that people are like, "Uh I don't like. she doesn't give me a good feeling. I. can't connect to her. She's too. dominant." And this comes directly from. the research. And this is a quote. I I. remember I don't remember quotes often, but this quote struck me so deeply. Competence without warmth leaves us.

feeling suspicious. Yes. This is the curse of highly smart women. Mhm. Highly smart women are in the workplace. and they're they have great ideas, they. have super high competence, and they. rely on their smarts. They're like, "My. ideas are so strong, my my prep, my. presentations, I know my stuff. I don't. need the warmth. My ideas are so good, they'll they'll live on their own.". But the research shows it doesn't matter. how smart you are, it doesn't matter how. good your ideas are, it doesn't matter.

how well prepared you are. I'm sorry. If. you do not showcase it with warmth, people are suspicious of you. Oh, that's so good. And so we have to be able to balance out. our competence with our warmth. Those. ideas with the the lubricant of warmth. That is so good. That is so good. And. and and you're so right that we all. think we can compensate for our lack of. warmth with competence. That's it. Or we can compensate for our lack of. competence with warmth. Right. And the point is people won't respect or.

like you based on They'll like you if. you're warm, but they won't respect you. if you're not competent. have the same problem. I think that. women's valley is just smaller. I agree. I really like that. Yeah, that. We just have a very narrow way to be and. like even sometimes like I do a lot. interviews and I'm I'm on, you know, social media a lot. Even in my grid on. Instagram, I am trying to balance this. very narrow lane of warmth and. competence. It's why I think so many. like women we feel like we have to share. like our breakfast or like. we feel like we have to share because.

we're like, "Oh, I don't want to be too. competent.". I don't want to be too smart. on that. side. And so we we also we we compensate. or try to balance in the wrong ways. And. so I would much rather you take control. of your interactions, right? We talk. about control. That's the way we do it. is we know, okay, we there's 97 cues. Here's warm ones, here's competent ones. I'm going to choose my recipe, right? Like I look different than other women. because I don't want to use all the same. cues. But I need to find what's the. recipe that I feel the most comfortable. with. What's the flavor of charisma that. I like the most that makes me feel like. myself.

Mhm. That I mean that is the recipe for. respect. That's it. Yeah. It's as simple as that. And. everything we've talked about today, what I deeply appreciate is that it's. earned, it's built, it's engineered, it's prepared for, it's not something. that someone just has and turns up with, which is this myth that I think makes. people go, "Oh my god, they're just. special.". Yeah. And I I like sometimes in my. comments, I try not to read comments, but sometimes in my comments people say, you know, "Just show up as yourself.".

You know, "This is This is manipulative. This is engineering." And I'm like, "Yeah." Because if you are lucky enough. that you can show up and just be. charismatic and win friends, amazing. I. am so happy for you. But most of us. don't have that privilege. Like I do. not. And so I think that yeah, it is a. little bit engineered in the sense of if. you feel competent and you feel warm, you should know how to showcase that. Mhm. I often felt warm and felt competent but. had no idea how to show it. And so I. think that there is a rare breed of.

magic people and they are amazing and we. can learn from them. But for most of us, it's just dialing up our natural warmth. and competence and just knowing how to. show it. I want to remind people I think this. stuff can be used disingenuously. And it's only disingenuous if it goes. back to what we were talking about. earlier where it shifts into. manipulation, it shifts to like trying. to get something out of something and. extraction and lying and. This is my greatest fear, by the way. Yeah. Like before I came out with cues. especially,

I I had like a like a life crisis. because I started writing the book and I. was like, "Oh no. Like this could be. used for evil.". And like I had a whole thing with my. publisher where I was like, "I don't. know if I should publish this.". Mhm. Like I don't These are tools. that people could use for bad. And I And she was like, "Yeah, but they. could also be used for good." And so I. sat with my team and I talked to them. about it and we decided to to move. forward with it obviously. Um and it you know it's changed so many.

people but that is my biggest fear is. that people will use this for bad not. good and so it's really important I. think for everyone listening that if you. have the intention to build friendships. and to find your people and to be warm. that's why we started off with that word. whatever word it is great like that is. your intention and that is only. searching for good and that should. always be our intention. I love that. Vanessa you are incredible. I think you masterfully go between. warmth and confidence. I can't now we've.

spent two hours together. No I mean it. it's. I I think the work you're doing is. amazing and and I think it's so needed. in a time when. a lot of us are dealing with low. self-esteem. low confidence we think everyone else is. impressive and we're not. and. and we're lonely. and we're lonely. and we're underestimated yes. and we look around and we think we're. the only one struggling. when the reality is someone just had the. chance to develop a few of these skills.

maybe in a workplace maybe in college. maybe their parents had some of these. naturally. and you don't have to feel that what you. have now is all you have. that's it and um. not everyone is going to be your flavor. you don't have to let everyone like you. in fact it doesn't it's impossible so I. would rather you go into conversation. finding your people the people who like. your weirdness the people who like your. awkwardness the people who truly value. what you value everyone else wish them. well.

but like life is too short to spend time. with people that we're ambivalent about. life is too short to not say hey like. it's too short. absolutely and and it's there's this old. meme that I love that people post and it. says. confidence isn't everyone will like me. confidence is I'll be okay if everyone. doesn't. that's it. and that I've always loved that because. I think we think confidence means oh. everyone likes them. And A, that's not true for anyone at. all. And B, it's no, I'll be okay if.

they don't because. I know why I did that. I know why I. showed up that way. I know why I said, "Hey." Because life's too short. Right. I know why I made eye contact because I. wanted to form a real connection. I know. why we went on a road trip because I. wanted to make sure that someone was not. just being a script. with me. Yeah. It's like I did all of that and I. know why I did it, even if it didn't go. the way I wanted it to go. Yeah. Vanessa, thank you so much for showing. up in your full self. We end every. episode of On Purpose with the final.

five. These have to be answered in one. word to one sentence maximum. I'm just going to not going to overthink. this. Okay. Vanessa, your first question is what is. the best advice you've ever heard or. received? Don't say yes to everything. Good advice. Question number two, what. is the worst advice you've ever heard or. received? Just be yourself. Mhm. Doesn't help me. It doesn't help. Yeah. Because you don't. even know what you're capable of. When people would say that to me, what if you don't like yourself?

I had a long time where I didn't like. myself. So when someone said, "Be. yourself.". that was like the worst way to be. And. so I had to figure out something else. And so I think that. that was a hard that was the worst. advice cuz it actually didn't help me. Yeah. I love that answer. Question number three, and you can. expand on this a bit because I think. it's really important. I feel like right now we're losing a lot. of these cues. because most of us are on a dating app. and we're messaging. So you don't even get to see what. someone's looking at. You don't get the.

hey. Hey. You don't get that. Yes. You don't get the smell. Yes. You don't get the ability to give 29. You know, you don't get it. And so what. are we losing? And how How we navigate it? What we're losing is freedom. Because they're so narrow, those apps. It's like, how do you look? Okay. Now, what are these five questions that are. on your profile? How did you answer. them? Oh, now we're going to text in. this very weird limited way about and.

forth. And so, we lack the freedom to be. like, "So, like, what brings you here to. this gym? Oh, you come here a lot? Oh, I. saw you with your friend." Like, we need. more freedom to find our people. I don't. dislike dating apps because I think. they've created a number of beautiful. friendships. And but what I think that. is really important is you don't use. them as your only vehicle for dating. Make them be one vehicle. But then, if. you're dating and you're really serious. about finding your person, make it your. part-time job. Mhm. And go to the places where your person.

would be. So, one of my friends is also dating and um. she has a dog. And I was like, "Sure. Do the apps one, you know, 30. minutes a day at the most. Otherwise, I. want you to go to every dog park within. a mile of you every day after work.". And just look around. Talk to everyone. Talk to men, talk to. women, and just start talking to the. people at those dog parks. You know why? They live within a mile of you. They are dog owners. And you can see them with their dog.

Yeah. And she was like, "Oh." And I was like, "That's your part-time job." So, just. make sure that dating apps aren't your. only way. That you're going to the. places where they might be and you're. spending more time there than on the. app. I love that. It's great advice. Did you. find someone yet? Not yet. Not yet? Okay, well, that's good. I like that advice. I do like that though. I really I really. like that. Um. Where do I want to go? Question four.

Question four. How do we get comfortable. with awkward pauses? Oh, no. Mhm. So, actually, here's how we do it. Powerful people pause more. Pausing is a signal to someone that. you're not rushed. So, one, if someone else has paused, you. have made them comfortable enough where. they don't feel like they have to rush. with you. Gift. If you are pausing, you are giving space. to say, "I'm okay for just this second.

to pause.". And so, pausing shows you're doing. something right. Mhm. I love that. I do it all I did I. did it just then even to come up with. that question. Because. I was trying to figure out where we. wanted to go. Yeah. And I didn't want to just do this what. I'm doing now, which is like, "Oh, I'm. I'm thinking of an answer to ask you. next, and I'm not sure where to go with. it, but I'm thinking about it. Like, let. me just think about it for a second. Is. that okay?" And it's just. Filler. It's just filler, and we're lost, and. it's like, "Well, no, I actually didn't. know." And I thought about it for a. second, and it was there. a moment to take a breath, and we both.

feel comfortable. And I was like, "Okay, this feels comfortable." So, do I. Yeah. And and it's okay to do that. Fifth and. final question, we ask this to every. guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that. everyone had to follow, what would it. be? Mhm. Okay, if I had to create one law that. everyone had to follow, it would be no. more fake smiles. Ah, I like that. No more fake smiles. If you like it, like it. Heck, yes, like it. If you. don't like it, don't pretend. We would. be so much better off with with no fake. smiles cuz we would actually know what.

people like and don't like. Mhm. I like that advice. That's good. That's good. Mhm. Vanessa Van Edwards, everyone. Thank you. so much. That was. so much. Thank you. in dating, work, communication cues. Uh. I really hope you come back on the show. I would love it. And I hope we get to spend more time. together. And everyone who's been. listening or watching, I want you to. tell me I want you to tag me and Vanessa. on Instagram, on TikTok. I want you to. share with us what you're testing, what. you're trying, what you're experimenting. with. If you said hey to someone, right?

Whichever one of these that you did, I. want you to tell us that you're doing. it. I want you to share with us what. you're trialing because that's where we. learn together. You're going to inspire. so many people who follow you and. connect with you, your friends and. family, to learn about how they can. master the secret language of. charismatic communication. You have the. ability, everyone else you know does as. well. It's just about finding it and. building it. Vanessa has the blueprint. Go and follow her across social media, grab her books, and tag us both when.

you're listening to this episode. If you nod at someone and you end up. that they're they're your soulmate and. you come to Austin, Texas, I will marry. you. Okay, like let's create some soulmates. Let's make some on purpose babies. I love that. That's so. you. If you If you hate someone and they. hate you back, mhm, I'll marry you. That's brilliant. I love that. That's so. cool. Hey everyone, if you loved that. conversation, go and check out my. episode with the world's leading. therapist, Lori Gottlieb, where she. answers the biggest questions that.

people ask in therapy when it comes to. love, relationships, heartbreak, and. dating. If you're trying to figure out. that space right now, you won't want to. miss this conversation. If it's a romantic relationship, hold. hands. It's really hard to argue. It. actually calms your nervous systems. Just hold hands as you're having the. conversation. It's so lovely.