IHIP Next: Trump RAMPS UP Fascism as He Grows WEAK; Expert Breaks Down Why HE WILL FAIL!

Welcome to this special episode of IHIP. News. I am joined by the best-selling. author of Strong Men, Ruth Ben Gillot, a. historian. Ruth, welcome to IHIP News. >> Thank you. >> I want to cover some very important. information regarding what's happening. in the United States because all of. this, and you say this a lot, is new for. the United States to have this form of. government. And I read your lucid. substack and listener, you should read. it as well. Um because when you're armed.

with information, when the government is. abusing its citizens, it can be. cathartic and therapeutic to know what. is going on. And Ruth, you speak a lot. about the government, the Trump regime. is intentionally. weakening the government. Explain to my. listeners why would you get power and. then want to weaken the government that. you operate within? Yeah, this is this is one of the most. tragic aspects of uh what's going on now.

and I was calling it out um in Lucid. like in February in March um you have uh. somebody who's a head of state who. really long ago internalized um Kremlin. and other authoritarian uh views of the. world that see democracy as the problem. And then the question is why would you. kneecap your own country, >> right? >> And um authoritarians do that so they.

can more easily grab control if you have. an impoverished diseased. um population. They're less likely to be protesting in. the streets. Um, and if you care about. profiting off of uh governance and you. really don't care about the people you. are supposed to be governing, and. remember uh President Trump did the AI. video of him like um dumping excrement, >> yes, >> on American people and protesters. That.

kind of shows you the mentality. And. they're all like this. They despise the. people they govern. And so sometimes the. bad outcome economically is over time. and it's a result of incompetence. Here. everything has happened so fast and and. you know taking away vaccines, doing. things that will increase the likelihood. of mass disease, things like that. Um. they are part of really a mentality that.

wants to create the conditions to be. able to rule more easily in an. authoritarian fashion. And is it that in. a democracy historically. we think the power is within the people. of the people by the people for the. people we've learned that mantra you. know from from school age on and is it. to take the power away from the people. and consolidate it in this regime. >> Yeah. And it works in different ways. One is of course and this has a long.

long racialized history of voter. suppression. So we have a long precedent. of some of these authoritarian practices. and I consider the Jim Crow South a kind. of regional authoritarianism. So we have. that precedent but we can't really um. only define authoritarianism as in a. legal way which which is important. So. the executive wants to get as much. power. That's why Trump has marginalized. Congress. That's why he keeps doing. ruling by executive orders. He's made.

the judiciary, the Department of Justice. into his personal like revenge tool. All. of that is like by the book. >> But I think we also need to see. authoritarianism as a process by which. um you deprive the many of their rights. and you create hardship for them to. allow the very few, the billionaires, the oligarchs to have unlimited. liberties to plunder the workforce, to. plunder the environment. You roll back. all the regulations including moral. regulations that kept people behaving.

ethically. You take all of that out of. government and that's going on too. And. that's one again it's very tragic. Um. but it's all preceded very quickly which. is one thing that's that differentiates. what we're living through. If we feel. like our heads are exploding every day, >> it's because the pace of change, it. doesn't really resemble um other um. states where the authoritarian came to. power via elections. So, that tease up.

my next question. A lot of people say. we're in the middle of a power grab and. is it a power grab if this candidate was. democratically elected? A lot of the. things he's doing, >> he telegraphed that he was going to do. >> during the campaign. He was going to. root out the enemy from within. >> And so, will you please talk to that and. also speak to the role that the.

oligarchs are playing in this specific. power grab in the United States of. America. >> Yeah. And you're right that he did. campaign on this. At one point during. the campaign, he said to um an ev. evangelical Christian group, "I'm going. to fix it so good that you'll never have. to vote again. If you only vote for me. now, you'll never have to vote again.". And so today, we have the something. called electoral autocracy. So in the. old days, you declare dictatorship or. you had a coup. And so that's that's it.

Today, they come to power via elections. That's what happened with Putin, with. Orban, with Erdogan in Turkey. And then. you use the system and you actually. hollow out elections. You you use voter. suppression. You use intimidation. You. do everything possible. So you keep. elections going. So you can say like. Victor Orban, "Oh, I'm not a dictator. This is illiberal democracy." That's his. phrase. But there's nothing democratic. about it. Um and elections, so you keep.

them going, but they mean less. and and. the Trump administration is very uh. worried about this now because Democrats. have had unbelievable successes. electorally because there's a blowback. to what's going on. And so there's going. to be a push to perhaps do something. with elections, but that doesn't mean we. shouldn't keep registering people to. vote, right? because um the elections. are the last thing that you have. sometimes. Um and that's true in Turkey,

that's true in Hungary, and you have to. use them. >> I read somewhere probably on Twitter. that I really shouldn't be on, but we. all peek over there from time to time. Yeah. >> That um rarely do authoritarians or. autocrats or dictators, whatever we want. to call him, rarely are they voted out. >> What do you have to say about that? That. terrifies me. >> Yeah. I mean, one of the biggest cases. um in Chile where Pinocha, it's one of. my cases in my book and I interviewed.

people. I did a lot of work on Chile. Um. he came in via military coup and then he. lost power over the time. He was there. for 17 years and the United States which. um had backed his coup, Kissinger and. Nixon, they made it possible, right? They lost faith in him and they actually. the United States went from taking. democracy away to helping it come back. And so Pinish lost so much power he had. to agree to a referendum, an election.

basically whether he would stay or. leave. So he's a case and he lost. And. he's a case where the dictator left and. didn't want to leave but he left. Um but. often if they come in via coup via coup, they leave via coup. um or something. happens to them uh they have to resign. like Assad and if they're lucky they go. into exile somewhere. Um now I I would. hope that we would have an electoral. outcome uh so that uh Trump would leave.

office peacefully but the the track. record on that is not very good as we. saw from January 6th. >> Right. >> Right. He packed his. >> toys up after he threw a giant temper. tantrum um that we all saw and then was. very fragrantly flagrantly uh pardoned. the loyalists. >> that committed these felonies. And that. type of um I describe it as the rules.

that apply to everybody else don't apply. to us. >> and they it's like a neon sign with. these guys and they you see what's going. on in Minnesota right now and after um. Renee Good was shot after she was. murdered by an ICE agent our logic as. Americans being part of a civilized. country we would think there's going to. be an investigation they're going to. receive. The opposite has happened. Christine. Noma said, "We're sending hundreds more. in." Now they're in Targets. They're in.

gas stations. They have accelerated. this type of terrorizing the public. They are terrorizing. And I think. Minnesota, Minneapolis, Canada. I'm. thinking about border protection. I'm. thinking, okay, why aren't they in. Florida or in Texas or Arizona or on the. California border? They're all the way. up there. And it doesn't take that much. of deduction skills to assume this isn't. about immigration. This isn't about the.

border. This is intentionally. to terrorize the citizens and even more. insidiously to prime us. >> to be scared of their power. Mhm. So, um. [clears throat] it's the immigration uh. has been very important ideologically. uh because they do want to create a. white um Christian male-dominated. ethnostate and that's been ever since. Bannon was talking about that in 2015.

And um but but immigration has always. been an excuse to build an. infrastructure of repression. and ICE is. like they remind me of like the fascist. militia. When Mussolini came in, that. was the original stuff I studied for. years. Um, which is how I recognized. Trump uh in 2016 for what he for what he. is. Uh, and and Mussolini came into. power and he wasn't sure and he came in. through a lot of violence with his black. shirts. Um, and he was before Hitler,

right? and Hitler learned from him and. he didn't really trust the um armed. forces of Italy and they were under the. command of the of the king. So he. created a militia, the fascist militia. and when he became prime minister and. then he became dictator later, he put. all the thugs, all the black shirts, all. the killers um into the militia and then. guess what he did? He pardoned them all. Because the authoritarian mentality is. why would you have perfectly good.

killers and bribers and the people who. have the criminal skills you need? Why. would you have them sitting in prison. when they could be useful? >> Oh god. >> And that's why so many authoritarians. pardon uh they pardon people. Pinocha. pardoned human rights abusers. He even. pardoned the concealers, the people who. went through the police records and. wiped them clean. Everybody has to be. pardoned because you need those people. And we're seeing this in the United. States now. And so what's h what.

happened in Minneapolis, I just want to. tell people and it's terrifying, but. it's it's good to know that um in an. authoritarian state for a police state, there is no concept of peaceful. assembly. There is no concept of legal. observer, which is what Renee Good was. doing. And there's no concept of. monitoring people. They don't care about. evidence about body cams because they. are um empowered to act lawlessly. So if.

you look at this an authoritarian. framework they just don't they've. they've completely discarded democratic. notions of law enforcement of public. space of decorum of everything and. that's how they're acting. Do you. remember out of Trump.0 all of the. people that worked around him that put. up guard rails? They came out and said. he's a fascist through and through. >> And then there was that quote where he. had told I can't remember which cabinet. member it was that he wishes that he had.

generals. >> like Hitler had. And as you're talking. about the pardoning of the January 6. writers, for me I thought that's just so. flagrant. That's such a a you know. snubbing your nose at the rule of law. But to hear from you from an historical. perspective there is they're not. universally unique. These this MAGA. regime they're following a tried andrue.

failed. >> playbook that history. >> does not bode very well upon. Which. brings me to my next question and you've. you have spoken about this and I want. you to describe it to our listeners. because it's fascinating to me. We're. seeing a rapid increase of this flood. the zone. They were first um you know. killing uh people in we did with no due. process in Venezuela. Now we've captured. horrible dictator. We've captured. Maduro. We have the the ICE agents. acting bananas. We have the Supreme.

Court bending the need. All of these. things happening so much. It's so. overwhelming and it feels so abusive. And you talk about in your Substack. Lucid about the autocratic gamble. >> Walk us through what that is. >> So the it's like a push and pull with. autocrats. And normally things, as I. said, happen uh a bit more slowly. But. when autocrats feel they're getting um.

becoming less popular, there's blowback. Maybe they're um the elites they depend. on are starting to um be disaffected. That is when they do these um reckless. moves. And political scientists call this. gambling for resurrection. And so. Mussolini did this. Um things were so. bad because people hated his uh Italians. hated his alliance with Hitler that.

[snorts] in 1939 when he was doing um. like public speaking, they had to bus in. people who they paid to create a crowd. for the news reels. And so rather than. retrench, what does the autocrat do? He. doubles down. So he goes into World War. II on the side of Hitler and we know the. rest. He ended up executed, hanging from. a gas station. Hitler killed himself. So, it doesn't have to be that dramatic, but um Putin was in the same uh kind of.

mentality. He the economy was not doing. well after the pandemic. There were lots. of polls coming out in Russia where. young people uh were opposing him, wanted a different ruler. And I saw him. sitting in Geneva in the summer of 21. I. saw him sitting there and I was covering. it uh doing live coverage with M uh NBC. and something about him. He was sitting. there twitching as he sat there with.

Biden and I went home and I wrote that. night in Lucid that he might do. something reckless. and that was the invasion of Ukraine. because that was his gamble for. resurrection. So Trump is kind of in the. same thing where this Venezuela thing. which took everybody by surprise. It was. perfectly planned operationally. It had. been months in the making. But it came. as a kind of uh reckless gamble to say I.

I have all the power. I am omnipotent. I. can even depose a dictator. Um that kind. of thing. And so that's the gamble. And. the more they feel their backs are. against the wall, the more they do. reckless things and they double down. That's the key for us. We have to be. prepared. They never retrench. They. never say, "Oh, I'm sorry. I have been. to extremists." They become more more. and more. And so does this impulsivity,

this lack of impulse control where they. escalate and does it backfire versus if. they really wanted a long-term ruling um. white Christian nationalist regime. >> It's like a frog in water. You know, you. incrementally. slowly get everybody adjusted to the. temperature of it. And right now we all. have whiplash and horrified and. >> terrified which is the result they want.

So does their impulsiv impulsivity and. does their acceleration. backfire on them because they have no. impulse control? I believe in this case. um the Trump administration has acted so. recklessly on every front so quickly. that there will be this um process I. call autocratic backfire. We see this in. the rising numbers of people protesting. You know, in Minneapolis,

even as people are being terrorized, there's an uptick in people registering. for um non-violent action training. And. that's kind of a microcosm of what is. going on in the country. Protest has. risen and risen as they have become more. repressive. Um because ordinary people. from all walks of life are realizing. also that that Trump is not doing what. he promised. It's not America first, it's Trump first. um it's Trump and cronies first.

and and that that is a recipe for. blowback. So he ran on this um uber nationalist. uh nivist. America first and in flyover states. where people are isolated from diversity. and their main sense of culture, their. main avenues of culture or church and. their main identity is being an American. and there we have this, you know, really.

fantastic military that has done these. heroic things that we see in movies. So. they attach a lot of their identity to. that. But since he has taken over Trump. 2.0, we see $40 billion to Argentina, Venezuela. Um apparently he's asked his. generals to draw up plans for Greenland, whispers of Cuba, whispers of Colombia. Uh he has even, you posted this, that he. even posted he was the acting president. of Venezuela. Lindsey Graham was on Fox.

News with Make Iran Great Again. And our. heart goes out to everybody in Iran. right now. But it seems that there seems. to be a complete global realignment with. this where we used to have kind of a. competition and cooperation within. democracies and I feel like we're moving. towards a competition. of autocracies. >> What are your thoughts on that? So we. are in a moment where autocracies are.

working closer together. Um Russ, you. know, people don't realize that Russia. is economically dependent on China now. And Russia is not doing well. It's a. failed state. It's a kleptocracy. And. they had to call, that's why they had to. call North Korean troops in to help. them. That's not a good sign of a. well-run military. Everything, all the. all the institutions are are hollowed. out, ravaged by corruption. So they're. working together uh more closely because. they're weaker individually many of.

them. That's the thing we have to. realize. Um now the Trump administration. marauding around the world um is really. significant and and awful because we. have this thing where parallel to. destroying the rule of law at home. The. goal has always been to um advance is. very important in this to destroy any um. adherence and allegiance to democratic. internationalism to visions of. international relations where diplomacy.

is diplomacy not like shakedowns and. thuggish moves. And Marco Rubio has made. himself the agent of this thuggishness. And so the instability um you see is. hugely increased by the United States um. acting in this lawless fashion. And um a. lot of this is economically oriented. They want to plunder. I have a quote in. strongman from 2019. and Trump this thing about buying.

Greenland or getting Greenland is old. and Trump started talking in 2019 about. getting Greenland and Mike Pompeo this. is the quote in my book as climate. change uh proceeds that precious. minerals of which Greenland has many. will be liberated and so that's why they. want Greenland and we saw also in. Venezuela they got rid Maduro in. exchange for supposedly being able to. exploit Venezuelan oil and it's all.

about the oil companies. And so there's. a history of this also in Iraq under. more democratic leaderships. But right. now the plunder aspect is is really. important because that's what they do. That's what the axis uh in World War II. was about. It was about uh plundering as. well as uh the Holocaust. And we always. have to think about plunder and. self-enrichment. and and that's why they're doing so many. deals with other autocrats all of them.

lawless including Saudi Arabia. Oh yeah. Um is it a part of the personality type. for these strong men? they, you know, Hitler came in, uh, Germany had economic. problems and, um, he they were, they. felt ashamed for World War I and he, um, ignited this nationalism, but then he. just couldn't help it. And then he had. his sights on all you know on conquering. >> and Trump America and even uh Steven.

Miller you know during that Madison. Square Garden rally that they had. leading up to uh the 2024 election a lot. of uh America first America only type. language and then immediately we start. expanding to they're abandoning and I. think what you say intentionally. weakening the population. >> and is that a personality trait? of this megalomania where it's just they. get it's like a shark in the water. They. get a little taste of it. And I when.

Trump I saw him on Fox News, Ruth after. the Venezuela thing and you could tell. he was like Pavlovian's dog. He was just. or Pavlov's dog. He was salivating on. Fox and he said, "I watched it. >> and it was like watching a movie. Our. military was so fast and violent. It was. incredible." And I thought, "Oh, God, now he's gotten a taste of this and he's. going to be off of his decorating. projects. >> and now he's going to be turned on by. the by this military might. >> and because he seems like he has a short.

attention span to me, Trump." And now he. seems to be advancing, you know, globally everywhere. Well, yes. And this. is when they make unforced errors. because there's this whole process where. first they surround themselves with. sophants and loyalists and they get rid. of anybody who's going to tell them. anything objective. And so they start over time and in again. in our case it's just happening real. quickly. They start to believe their own. propaganda. They start to believe in. their own genius. And then their.

megalumania is just totally out of. control right now. But you know what's. interesting is the Venezuela thing is. actually connected to the ballroom. because in fact when Trump had a recent. um uh meeting with oil executives and uh. somebody from Exxon spoke out uh in a. very he was very disturbed because Trump. was meandering and wandering and he. interrupted the meeting which was. supposed to be about Venezuelan oil to.

wander to a window and start talking. about his ballroom because the ballroom. is about donors and more money coming in. to him and his ego and so it's actually. all connected. It makes sense from the. demented very particular autocratic. mentality that he would interrupt a. meeting about um plundering the oil of. Venezuela to he feels so powerful. because it did go off beautifully in.

terms of military operations. It was. perfect and it was well rehearsed. It. was, you know, like a perfect I've. studied military coups and stuff like. that. It was really well done. But he. feels puffed up because of it. And so, of course, he's going to wander to the. window and start talking about his. ballroom. Uh, which made the executive. of Exxon very uncomfortable. And now Trump is saying, "Well, Exxon's. not going to be involved." So, it's a. whole cycle. Yes. And then then he he's. very upset that somebody pointed out.

that, you know, he's maybe uh not as. focused, shall we say, as he could be, and now they're going to be uh he has to. take revenge on them. Regarding the. ballroom, he always says something super. interesting. He says, "It's going to be. great. We're going to have the. inauguration in there.". >> Mhm. >> And we will have drone proof ceiling and. bulletproof glass. And he keeps. projecting. >> Yes. to the inauguration. >> and and that's so.

um I have some quote in strong men. somewhere that they're what mo what what. motivates strong men is fear. They're always worried about they know. people hate them and they always are. worried about people who are going to go. after them and that's why they build. these palaces. They build these bunkers. and the White House has become Trump's. bunker. It's become his world. Um, and.

that's why he wants to expand it and. redo it and put his own name on it. And. so it's very telling that when he's. projecting something which is illegal. because it would he can't have a third. term um that he would be talking about. making it drone proof and bulletproof. and fear dictates almost everything the. autocrats do. Um usually again this fear. builds slowly because they've been doing. this incrementally.

Trump has done everything so fast that. and he knows perfectly well what people. think of him and that's why he is is. conjuring the idea of his own safety his. own safety and self-preservation. motivates autocrats more than anything. they will even prolong wars um Netanyahu. is has always everything he has done is. motivated by self-preservation. if they have um if they so I'll give you. an example a regular politician if they.

are under investigation, they they don't. want to run for office because the. journalists will start poking around, >> right? >> If you're an autocrat, you feel. compelled to run for office. So, you can. get into power and shut down the. investigation. And a list of people who. were under investigation when they ran. for office, beer several times, Trump. three times, Putin and Netanyahu, and. I'm sure there are others. So this is. because of their fear and they watch.

what happens to other autocrats. And. it's really interesting a Russian. analyst said that Putin watched in in in. 2011 12 when he had a lot of protests. going on against him. He kept watching. the tape of what happened to Gaddafi who. ended up in a hole in the ground and. then he was executed because he had a. 42-year long dictatorship and Putin kept. watching this this footage and he was. like very and then he did a crackdown on. on Russians. So they watch what happens. to others what they get away with but.

also when it doesn't go well because. they're motivated by fear. [snorts] Did. you see this week? You know, I think. it's safe to say that Trump lives in a. literal bubble and a virtual bubble. I. mean, he is always around sick of fans. He's great. Everything's Trump branded. And he goes um off the reservation to. tour a Ford plant. And a Ford worker, not all heroes wear capes, screamed at.

the sitting president of the United. States, you're a pedophile protector. And Trump, you can see he says, "Fuck. you.". >> And then he flips the guy off and now. this guy has been. >> Mhm. >> suspended from his job because I'm sure. Trump pitched a fit. But what can you. say about the the the fragile ego and. the feardriven um autocrat when he's. faced and heckled by somebody who in his.

mind he would think, "Oh, this is just a. mere peasant." What type of humiliation. and exposure and how damaging is. something that I would think if you're. going to be a big boy and you're running. for president, you better have thick. skin because everybody's going to say. everything about you. Like Barack Obama, people called him the n-word, hard r all. the time. And he never showed any sort. of ruffled feathers. But here we have. this thin skinned. >> man. What do you suspect studying all of.

these types of strong men? How did that. episode impact him? >> Oh, it's huge. He probably thought about. it for hours afterwards because the more. they surround themselves with sick fans. and the more um they create these. bubbles around themselves also with real. estate, the less um they're prepared to. have any kind of um narcissistic ego. injury. And the whole Nobel Prize thing. is part of that, too. He's still.

obsessed with the with with the not. getting the Nobel Pri. >> So what I didn't say in the the when I. told the story of Putin in 2021, he was. in the Geneva summit with Biden. >> and he was exposed to American. journalists, some of whom asked him. really hard questions and that I could. see him like being extremely rattled by. this because nobody would do that in. Russia. You can't, right? He's killed. He's had journalists killed. He doesn't.

have open press conferences. And that's. why he sat there afterward and he looked. really rattled. You can't tell, but I've. studied him for years. And that's why I. wrote that night that I think he could. do something reckless. because any kind of confrontation is a. narcissistic ego injury. And what is the. response to that? It is repression. God, that's absolutely terrifying. So, the strong man, you know, during Trump.

1.0, he had energy. Um, he has a. non-stop uh type of personality like an. inj Energizer bunny. You know, he. campaigned non-stop. It seemed like he. just had oodles and oodles of injury. I. mean, energy. Now there is reporting. that his staff have told him to look. less sleepy. >> in meetings and there are cracks in this. machisimo facade. The strong man from my.

v sides of it. He has physical. manifestations of aging um on his hands. that he's covering up with makeup and he. has these cankles falling asleep in. public. Um, I've observed, and I'm not a. medical doctor, just an armchair stroke. expert, if you will, but I've noticed. his lip, and it seems like the strong. man is becoming frail and weak. Historically, what happens when the. strong man is not so macho and strong.

and alpha any longer? >> Well, that's when this whole process of. their fear and being more repressive. kicks in. it kicks into goes into. overdrive because and especially. somebody like Trump who is really so. skilled at creating images, >> right? >> He's a skilled propagandist and he knows. the stakes of him not um appearing. omnipotent anymore, all powerful and. they're all remember the fear thing. They're always worried that somebody's. going to come and get them. Strong men. don't like talk about successors because.

that implies they're not going to be. there forever. And they never appoint. anybody around them who has any. charisma. And so um that's why you know. JD Vance who's there as a proxy for. Peter Peter Theal and all the the. technofascists but he has no charisma. He's he's not very wellliked outside the. the hardcore base. And that's by design. Um because as they age, as they become.

more vulnerable and he knows perfectly. well that his body is is he's a certain. age and and but that they want to grasp. on to power all the more and so I don't. think he can people can his his. adviserss can tell him not to fall. asleep but I don't think he can pro he. can help it, >> right? Um, so it's a recipe for grabbing. everything you can while you still can. >> Have you heard anything about this? Um, you know, the there's leaks that come. out of the administration that he.

intentionally. plays J. D. Vance and Marco against each. other. >> Yes. >> Purposely. >> This is called divide and rule. >> Okay. >> Like literally everything. It's so. crazy. I've been studying this stuff for. decades and it's like check check check. check everything they're doing. So. divide and rule is when the autocrat. pits people against each other, cabinet. officials um whoever it is so that they. won't conspire against him. And here we.

go back to the the fear that somebody. will there'll be like a palace coup. Um, and remember when you're in. authoritarian territory, things that. seemed unthinkable in a regular. democracy, they're not they're not. democrats. Like he's not a Democrat. He. thinks in terms of authoritarian and. somebody getting him. So that's why um. he pits them against each other. And. that's the other the other thing that. autocrats do. It's um which happened a. lot in the first uh administration with.

Trump. [snorts] It's like a revolving. door. um cabinet officials and people. come and go partly because they're never. loyal enough, but also everybody has to. be humiliated and be made to seem that. they're dispensable, that only the. leader matters. And so if they start. getting too much power, um and autocrats. love to fire people in public or in. humiliating ways. Um, so Rex Tillerson, who was briefly Secretary of State, and.

he was put there because he's a friend. of Russia and he, uh, is in the oil. sector, he learned that he'd been fired. while he was scrolling through Twitter. in the bathroom. Um, uh, other real like. dictators like Mabu and Pino would fire. people on television, they fire people. in public. And so you're standing there. with at some rally and he tells you that. you're fired just to humiliate you. and. and Trump is an expert in this kind of. ritual humiliation. >> Yeah. So his um administration since the.

uh murder of Renee Good, they have we t. spoke about this earlier, but they seem. to be doubling and tripping down and. tripling down. Now they are using. straight up Nazi propaganda translated. from German [snorts] to English and it. feels very intentional. It feels like. they are taking a victory lap on all of. this. And is it intentional? Is this. type of use of propaganda to terrorize.

the public and link it back to does this. backfire in a country this big and this. diverse? >> It is intentional. Um they, you know, government agencies don't uh message. without knowing what they're doing, >> right? Um, Trump campaigned on this. He There's. a very interesting uh c campaign video. he released in 2024. I wrote about it. also for CNN that was done in the style.

of 1930s news reels. and it there was a frame of it and it. came back twice uh saying that he would. be creating a quote unified Reich with. the R capitalized. Um, and again it depicted him as a kind. of little bit Church Hill but mostly a. Hitlerian figure, somebody who would. make America strong again. Um, and all.

there's a whole we all know the Nick. Fuentes the kind of normalizing um. fascist style rhetoric dehumanizing. people. this was a feature of the. campaign. Um and and so now they feel uh. empowered that they're actually um you. know doing social media messaging based. on um Nazi style and fascist style. rhetoric. >> and it's all part of so propaganda um.

isn't just about getting people to. believe this or that lie, even a big lie. like Trump won the 2020 election, right? It's really about changing the way. people feel about themselves and others. and the world. So, it's inculcating, educating for a world view. And the. Trump administration and Trump going. back 10, we've been 10 years into this. now where he's been trying to put forth. a worldview where violence is acceptable. way of settling differences. He's.

definitely built a leader cult. That's. been going on. and he's been recycling. he and his associates have been. recycling uh fascist worldviews and. Steven Miller is really important in. this and he's like the the um the kind. of brains behind it and he and the. ideological fanaticism and he's very. he's a very smart guy he's very versed. in the fascist playbook and if you. listen to what he says a lot of about.

saving you know western civilization. it's the same stuff that Muslim ini. said, Mussolini was saying this stuff. before Hitler got into power that. Mussolini I have stuff in my book about. this that Mussolini said um the entire. white race um is the white civilization. is being submerged by and at the time he. said uh brown, yellow and black people. And so this he was constantly talking. about whites being overcome uh being. extinguished.

So it's great replacement theory, >> right? and the administration is has. made great use of that. And so now um. delivering these coded messages, meaning. all neo-Nazis and fanatics will know. that they're taken from Nazi rhetoric is. part of this. Um now the last question, you've studied all of these. authoritarians, dictators, if you will, and a lot of their countries are. smaller. um they don't have the u expansive.

territory that the United States of. America has. They never have had as much. diversity. >> as this country has had. >> And our diversity has really been woven. into our culture. If you think about the. Statue of Liberty, you think about I. mean I remember grade school, we're a. melting pot. And. how difficult is this ambition of. theirs? >> Like Mussolini had the ambition, Hitler.

had the ambition with everybody being so. spread out and then you have 50. different states and then after that all. of these localized governments just you. and I are in New York City right now. You walk down the street and it is a. mult beautiful multicultural experience. walking two blocks where you might hear. three or four languages and you see. every shade of skin imaginable. >> and you might see somebody walking. around in go- go boots and nobody cares. It's no big deal.

>> How big of a swing is this? Yeah. for. them with this style of country. From. your expert opinion, when you think. about how small Germany is in. comparison, Chile is in comparison, Italy is in comparison. >> Yeah, I'm one of my maxims is never. underestimate the American people. And I. am an optimist. I think that it will not. be possible to dominate and transform. America into a white Christian. ethnostate. It's not who we are. And the.

reason they're working so hard right now. also all the anti-Dei. stuff is because uh we were on a. trajectory to be a world example. We. were already a world example of a. successful multiffaith and multi-racial. democracy. And that's why they have to. work so hard to take it down. But they. will not succeed. In fact, you know, the. 2022 midterms, we elected more and more. people who were firsts to be, you know, the first black governors of certain.

states, the first this and that. And we. were on a trajectory, which is also what. Kla Harris represented. um in her person. >> Yeah. >> A multiffaith, multi-racial democracy. And I believe that we will prevail. It. may get worse before it gets better, but. I believe that we will prevail because. you can't erase all of that. And indeed, we are far more complex, far bigger. Now, that poses um organizational. problems to having a unified.

pro-democracy movement. And today, often. protest um and it it's been like this in. the United States is decentralized. You. know, in other countries, you see. everybody descending on the capital. >> Um Budapest recently, >> yes. and Georgia, it we we may have. marches on Washington, but um it it's. decentralized. It's community up and. that is actually very effective and you. we we you simply can't take away um for. hundreds of millions of people this.

identity uh who they are and a politics. that expresses that. So I believe that. um they will not be successful. ultimately in transforming us into some. kind of fascist state. All right, Ruth, thank you so much. I know for me it is. so disturbing watching the government. abuse my fellow Americans and um it's. cathartic to know that these guys are.

not originalists, that they are playing. a failed. >> playbook, that they're incompetent in. executing it. And I think it helps all. of us stay engaged so that we don't. descend in denialism and that we like. you said really prompt everybody for. voter registration and we have to have. such a turnout that it is too big to. rig. So I thank you so much for joining. me. I always enjoy it and uh please. check out Ruth's um Substack. It's.

called Lucid. It will be very. therapeutic for all of you guys and. intellectually intoxicating. I promise. Thank you for joining us. >> Thank you. >> [music].