IHIP News: Young Women are DITCHING MAGA in DROVES as They Become DISGUSTED by Trump & Fuentes!

We are joined today by one of my. favorite new finds, journalist and. writer Sam Adler-Bell, who is also the. co-host of Know Your Enemy, which is. about the right, and the whole thing. fascinates me. So, your latest piece in. New York Magazine is fascinating. I. devoured it immediately, and it's called. The Women Leaving the Right. And I was. particularly enthralled by the art that. came with the piece cuz it shows Pete. Hegseth, Andrew Tate, Nick Fuentes, Elon.

Musk, and Tucker Carlson. So, it's like. that's just an interesting cast of. characters. And so, the two things that. really stuck out to me are women leaving. the conservative movement, and then the. influence of Nick Fuentes and all of. these, you know, right-wing influencers. So, start by, if you will, describing. your piece and the women that are. featured. >> Sure. Well, there's main There's two main. subjects of the piece, a woman who I. call Anna because she does not want to.

go by her actual name, and a woman who. went under her her own name, Alex. Caschuta. Both of them were really. prominent pundits on the MAGA new right. A lot of the work that they did was. about really criticizing women, talking. about how women are unwell, and that. feminism has diverted their natural. motherly instincts into a quest for. worldly success, and that now that women. have it, they're using their new-found. authority to punish and fetter men,

imperiling civilization in the process. This all sounds kind of crazy and awful, but this is the kind of thing that has. become totally normalized on the right. And these women, you know, in different. ways and to different degrees were. involved in kind of being mouthpieces. for that message over the past. 10 years. But they, over the course of more recent. time, started to realize that they were. really, you know, selling the rope to. hang themselves with. And the movement that they were part of,

really the MAGA movement, has become, if. you can believe it, even though it. started from a very sexist place with a. figure like Donald Trump at the top of. it, has become even more openly sexist. And a lot of the sort of currents of. misogyny that were somewhat below the. surface have come out to the forefront. And they have decided, and that's how. they came to me, that they'd had enough, and that this movement was no longer. really redeemable. That there was a form. of it that could exist that wasn't. sexist. And they decided to leave. And.

in the case of talking to me, you know, call it out. >> Okay, so what's interesting is I grew up. born and raised by super evangelical. Christian and Republican. So that's what. I did. And there's just a certain amount. of. internalized misogyny and sexism that. you just tolerate as you just don't even. realize it's happening. And then the. Bible is very patriarchal. Are Were. these women also involved in the.

Christian part of the right? >> Yeah, one of them, Anna, very much was, and is still a. believing Catholic. But she was. raised. very in a conservative. um. conservative religious environment. I. think that's a big part of it. But one. of the things that the sources, not just. these two, but other people I talked to. for the piece pointed out was that in. some ways the old Christian patriarchal. traditionalism that was the mainstay of.

the right for many, many years, that's. changed. You know, I mean, the people. who are leading the charge of sexism on. the right these days are not just these. sort of old school Christian patriarchs. Because, you know, and this is. steelmanning perhaps the sort of. biblical Christianity a little bit, but. those people, those men thought of. themselves as protectors, you know, that. they had to give something up in being a. part of, you know, the the patriarchal. family. Uh and mainly what they had to. give up was this, you know, their.

aggression in in in, you know, in. exchange uh for, you know, the things. that they get from being a part of, you. know, a heterosexual couple, a marriage. Um the thing that we have now is that. men the men who are leading the MAGA. movement they no longer think of. themselves as having responsibilities or. some kind of reciprocal reciprocal. obligation to the women who they have. control over. They expect these women to. be under their control, but that they. don't have to be even good patriarchs um. in exchange uh for that submission. And.

I think that's something that came. through really clearly in my. conversations, that in some ways the old. patriarchy part patriarchy was more. tolerable. uh than what we have now, which is uh. people like Nick Fuentes, who is who. he's not saying, you know, I love and. respect women and their you know, their. important role in society. Um he's. saying women are, you know, disgusting, odious creatures who are my political. enemies. I mean, that's a big that's a. big change. We don't want to give too. much credit to the old patriarchs, but.

at least they had this conception of. themselves as protectors of women, not. as this fundamentally hostile, violent, domineering. uh force in women's lives. >> And there's also a part of the movement. that wants to punish women they as a. right, like an Andrew Tate style person. >> Yeah. No, that's true. I mean, a big. part of the trajectory we're talking. about here is that the conservative. movement used to have some. there used to be some significant. difference or somewhat of a difference.

between the conservative movement and. what what was called sort of the. manasphere or the red pill side of the. internet, the sort of world of the. incels, you know, you know, these men. who think of women as basically like. co-conspirators in a plot to deprive. them of their, you know, God-given rights to domination. and sex and status. Um that part of the movement, you know, the the patriarchal conservative. Christian part of the movement has. merged in kind of a significant way with. this more virulent, angry, young incel.

part of the right that's represented by. people like Nick Fuentes and the Tate. brothers. >> What's interesting to me is like in. these circles, you hear that like the. women caused all the problems. We're mad. and we'll boil it down to women causing. the problem. And I I found that to be. interesting and fascinating. >> Yeah, it is it is really fascinating. I. mean. I I something I found just sort of like. really wading into the waters of.

right-wing sexism today is that if you. look at every problem they diagnose at. the center of it, really, is a woman. with too much power. So that you have. this whole theory uh that goes by. different names, you know, uh this sort. of anti-feminist woman figure. Helen. Andrews wrote about it as the. feminization of uh America, of public. life. Uh but then you have more people. on the far right who call it the. longhouse. And the idea is basically. that like. women have, as they've grown in their. numerical dominance in various fields,

in education, in the law, in healthcare, um that they are changing the norms of. these spaces and making them more. womanly. And what that means to them is. that is that women are, you know, congenitally, you know, liberal and empathetic and motivated by. emotion instead of reason and all of. these ideas. And that is what's That's. what caused, for example, wokeness from. their perspective. That's what caused. all these major problems in our in our.

collective life. Um and so for for the. right-wing MAGA misogynists, it's really. women who are undermining American. Western civilization in general at this. point that we've engaged in this sort of. massive experiment in allowing women to. have too much power and that's what's. causing all the problems in our. collective life. I mean, this is this. seems totally crazy, awful, straightforwardly sexist to me, but there are a lot of young men on the. right who are compelled by this and. they're compelled by it frankly in a.

similar way, I think and this is. something one of my sources pointed out. to me in a similar way to the way that. they're compelled by anti-Semitism. because this is a this is a theory of. the world that explains why you don't. have what you're supposed to have that. there's some kind of secret power. structure that is constraining you and. preventing you from getting what you. want and in the same way that. anti-Semitism treats Jews as. simultaneously these like weak creatures. and disgusting creatures, it also treats. them as all powerful, somehow both all.

powerful and weak and women are taking. the place of the Jew in that sort of. anti-Semitic paradigm for a lot of young. men right now on the right. >> Okay, this is an interesting thing in. the article. I just could not wrap my. head around this. You have Nick Fuentes who I would say is. a nut. He is openly anti-Semitic, he. hates women, he makes no bones about it. But you think he's super fringy. In my. mind, he's super fringy. You know, he's.

not close to power. You hear about the. Groypers and you know how crazy it is. In the piece, please tell the audience. how much influence or how prevalent Nick. Fuentes is in this White House's circle. and on Capitol Hill. >> Yeah, this is something that really. shocked me, too. I had thought of him as. a fringe figure. I mean, obviously he's grown in. prominence over the past year. He was. allowed back on Twitter. His number of. followers on X was grew, you know, by.

many folds. But what I heard from sources on on Hill. and sources who work in the White House. in the administration is that the young. staffer class, you know, people under. the age of say 35, many, many of them. listen to Nick Fuentes. Uh whether. they're big fans or just, you know, have. to pay attention to him because he's a. big enough and influential enough figure. with the men that they're trying to. reach uh is a different is it, you know, varies. Uh but yes, I talked to a source.

who is a former administration official. who said it's certainly the case uh that. the young staffer class, many of them. listen to Nick Fuentes. Um and I and I. heard from uh several people who work on. the hill uh that it's totally normal for. um people in his milieu to listen to. Nick Fuentes, to repeat the things he. says on his show. Uh so this is He is no. longer We cannot, you know, kind of tell. ourselves the comforting story that Nick. Fuentes has no influence. He's a major. figure on the right today. >> Uh that is just so stunning. That is.

just stunning to me. And then you have. you have this whole group of people that. you know, misogyny has now turned into. this hatred of women. And they're in. leadership positions like. >> Yeah. >> Project 2026, they don't want women in. the workplace. And that the root of all. evil is women. Then I see someone like. Pete Hegseth who just goes all through. me and and I that's why I liked the art. for the piece.

>> Yeah. >> because you just have all the offenders. Andrew Tate, Pete Hegseth. These men. hate women. It's just so obvious. There's this rage. Did you get any clue. from these women why there's such a. groundswell of anger towards women? >> Well, um one thing that people talked. about a lot was, you know, this kind of. like the sort of psychic dimension of. this um that a lot of these men are. people who. they had some kind of, you know,

primordial experience or indelible. experience of being humiliated by a. woman, whether it's a teacher, a. caregiver, a woman who wouldn't have sex. with them, um, their mother. I mean, there's. there's an You don't want to, you know, reduce people's political ideology to, uh, psychoanalysis entirely, but when. you when you watch these people, when. you watch somebody like, uh, Pete Hegseth on television and talking. about, you know, women in the military. and how they're undermining, you know,

our war fighters or whatever, uh, and. you see this kind of like boiled, coiled. rage and sort of impotence that you. that, you know, is such a just such a. feature, such a signal feature of his. self-presentation, you can't really you. can't really you can't believe. psychoanalysis out of it, you know, and, uh, I I think that. >> audience. >> Something that really brought this home. for me, and that ended up being sort of the. conclusion of the piece, was when, um,

Renée Good was was shot and killed in. Minneapolis. And there was this sort of. unbelievably like unanimous. message coming from the White House, from the press secretary, uh, and then. from all of their foot soldiers on the. internet, that the reason that she was. killed was she was a bad mother, uh, that she, you know, I remember. seeing this image. I don't remember if I. don't know if you saw this that was like. that was shared thousands of times. It. was a picture of Renée Good and it was. the message was, "I've been condescended. to by a woman who looks just like this.

countless times.". >> Mhm. >> And so, the idea it, you know, the. the whole project in the in the. aftermath of Renée Good's death, her. murder, uh, was to say, "This woman is dead because she wasn't. acting like the right kind of woman, like the right kind of mother." And in. fact, you know, this movement is. encouraging men to not feel bad or even. feel titillated by her death because, you know, this is just the kind of woman. who's treated you badly throughout your. life. And that message was just so.

clear, uh I felt and you know, in the. aftermath of her murder. And uh I I. think that you can't you really can't. set that aside, this aspect of like of. encouraging these resentments and these. petty grievances uh and these these deep. feelings of sort of lack and humiliation. that these men have experienced or that. they feel that they've experienced uh. and that that motivates a lot of this. politics. >> You know what's interesting to me is you. have this old man, I mean this old guy.

that he doesn't know where he is, he. talks with marbles in his mouth, he. makes no sense. And he's the leader. Everybody's just. cult of personality around him. So, I was naive enough to think, well, it's the Fox News, this guy will be. gone. It seems like what's coming after with. the youth and the Nick Fuentes and. Andrew Tates, that it seems worse. Like it's going to. be worse, their ideology for women, for. black people, for immigrants. It is.

getting crueler. >> Yeah. >> By the evolution. Did you get any sense. of where we're going from here? >> Yeah, I mean that's certainly the fear. Um I think I think that, you know, it's. crazy. I mean it's an unbelievable to. think like, oh, we we had it good when. it was just Trump. But it's possible. It's possible, you. know, I think you know, Tucker Carlson. um is a major figure in this world uh. and he, you know, he talks about how he.

doesn't want to run for office, but um I. think that I think that if if J- if he. decides that J.D. Vance doesn't have the. juice, I think he might. Um. and um I think. that one sort of important aspect of. this whole debate that I'm talking about. in this piece. And this this, you know, to a certain degree this is a debate. that's internal to the right. I mean. we're looking in on it from the outside, but there are people within the right, obviously some of the women I talked to. were saying, you know, this has to stop, you know, and some people are saying it. who are still more inside the movement.

than people I talked to are saying this. has to stop because we're going to lose, you know, you can't you can't say half. the country are sort of like subhuman, subrational creatures and win. um you know, a national election. I think that what's going on here is an. awareness that Trump is losing his grip. on the movement. They understand that. Trump, you know, is senescent and. marble-mouthed at this point and that he. is not going to be the leader of this.

movement uh forever. Uh they don't like. admitting that if they're really still. hardcore MAGA because Trump doesn't like. to hear it. Um but I think that what's. going on is that there's a there's a. mild fear that after Trump, yes, the. deluge of of the maniac, hateful, cruel, and to a larger degree than Trump, really unsympathetic forms of of of. violent hatred. Um you know, we don't think Trump is.

sympathetic, but Trump's sort of irony, his campiness, this quality of, you. know, it's a little bit of a joke. When. you see Pete Hegseth, you don't think. this is any part of this is funny. Any. part of this is a joke. Um and I think. there is a fear on the right that when. Trump leaves the scene, they will be. left with a movement that is shaped in. his image in the sense of an image of. cruelty towards women, towards people of. color, towards immigrants, but they will. not have a leader who has the Teflon.

charisma and this sort of magnetism that. Trump does to pull the whole project. together. And so, part of what's. happening right now, the the. conversation about anti-Semitism, the. conversation that I've surfaced about. about misogyny, there is a a dawning. awareness on the right that they might. have a problem. They might have a. problem if this is the main message. people are getting about what Republican. and conservative politics is. Uh I hope they do have a problem because. the alternative is they don't have a. problem. These people are in charge uh.

and they do unimaginable things uh to. vulnerable vulnerable people in this. country. >> That was a question I have for you. These women who are now saying, you. know, we were used by this movement. We. we were propped up, we drank the. Kool-Aid, we were all in and now they're. turning it on us. And one. part of I think it was Anna's story, I'm. sorry, Alex's story where she made a. comment that was somewhat against the. man at the table and he got up and he. pounded the table and he screamed at her. and nobody defended her.

>> Yeah. >> So, was there a sense that. okay, I realized they're doing this to. me. >> Mhm. >> We see anti-Semitism coming out of the. White House. They want to make all these. policies with universities, yet the. junior staffers are all in on Nick. Fuentes. Okay, whatever. But it's every. group. Were they able Was there a. dawning that it's not just women? They. are doing this to immigrants, they are. doing this to black people. Everybody. that's not them. Was there any awareness. of that?

>> I think that it's it's dawning. I mean, for for my sources, I think that the. first step and it's often the case that. the first step is to realize that you. yourself are in danger and then you can. go from there to, you know, that's. that's sort of the like prerequisite for. solidarity is to realize that you might. need some protection from other people, that you might need some. uh you know, strength in numbers. Uh I. do think that and a lot of readers have. pointed this out and they're entirely. right that it is it doesn't really.

flatter these sources that they didn't. mind any of the racism or. uh other kinds of bigotry that were just. so transparent about this movement. It. was only when they realized, oh, they're. coming for me as well as a white woman. that they turned on it." So, I think. that's that's, you know, that's just. that's a true thing about this story for. these women. And I think, you know, to. their credit, they feel a lot of shame. and guilt now. But for readers who read. it and go, "Oh, you're just finding out. now because it hurt you.".

I totally understand that reaction, too. >> Yeah, and I having been inside, not to. the extreme, there is a part. of being raised in it that you're immune. to it. That you're above it, you're. entitled. For me, it went along with the. evangelical Christian thing. So, I I can. see where it dawns on you slowly. Okay, last question, I'll get you out of here. because I know you have lots of other. stuff. What is the Is this something all women. in MAGA are talking about? Is this.

widespread? Is it isolated? And is there. anything going to change moving forward. that you can tell? >> Yeah, it's a good question. It was one. I, you know, tried different ways of. answering in the piece, you know. The. people who came to me obviously were. self-selecting, and then the people that. they put me in touch with were also. people who they knew. But one of the. sources who I spoke to, who was very. involved, one of my one of my main. subjects, was very involved in very. prominent outlets working in. conservative institutions, said to me,

"Every single woman working in. conservative politics knows what I'm. talking about. If she says she doesn't, she's lying." So, that does mean that, you know, from her perspective, they all. know about this problem. Whether they're. responding to that problem by talking to. New York magazine about how much of a. problem it is and defecting from the. movement, that's a different question. Some women are still making the. calculus, "Well, it's worth it. I have. these other political commitments, or I. have a career, or I have an income.". I would say that there is no doubt that. this is growing as a fear. And you see.

some glimmers of it come out even, you. know, just in on Capitol Hill. You know, you have the women who've criticized. Mike Johnson for his leadership in. Congress saying that he's too. patriarchal, he doesn't listen to women. You had the revolt over the Epstein. files that was led by Republican women. It's not a whole lot, you know, you wish. it was a lot more, but I think that at this moment it's. mostly subterranean. It's it's beneath. the surface. My hope is that it'll come out. I mean,

what what my sources said was that, you. know, these conversations are taking. place primarily in private, in in the. background, in the group chats that. everybody is in. All these women are. talking to each other, comparing notes. about, you know, bad conservative men, and talking about, you know, what they. can tolerate. And I hope that more of. them you know, make the decision that. the sources in my piece did, and that. moving forward we can have, you know, a. reckoning about this. >> I hope you're right. Listener, follow.

Sam Adler-Bell, his podcast where he's. the co-host Know Your Enemy. It's. fascinating. It's like, what's going on. behind the scenes on the right. It's. very interesting. Thank you for coming. on. I so enjoyed it. I could talk to you. for hours, but I will let you go. And. thanks again for being here. >> Thank you so much. This was a lot of. fun.