IHIP News: Trump Gets DIRE WARNING Over the Future of AI! He's OWNED By Tech BILLIONAIRES!

listener and viewer, as you know, there. are so many things going on with big. tech right now, particularly AI and. these monopolies that are forming within. the media. So, we have asked former. assistant deputy attorney general who. was in charge of antirust and current. professor Jonathan Caner on the podcast. Jonathan, thank you for coming on and I. am desperate to find out what's going on. with all this AI stuff. So you're have.

an expertise with big tech and you've. fought big tech and won. Can you explain. to me what the AI situation is currently. and what your fear is going forward? >> Okay, it's the way to start is the word. antirust. The trust in the word. antitrust goes back to an era where you. had a bunch of these oligarchs. Think. Carnegie, think uh Rockefeller. And they. had interests in all the companies, all. the railroad companies, all the oil.

companies. It was this tangled web of. control run by a small number of really, really rich oligarchs who essentially. controlled society. And uh Congress and. the public said enough is enough. We. want laws to prevent this. And so they. uh enacted the antitrust laws. Here we. are over a hundred years later. We have. the exact same thing happening. We have. oligarchs who have interests all over. the place. Open AAI and Nvidia and.

Microsoft and Google and uh and Amazon. have investments in Anthropic. Nvidia. has investments in OpenAI. Open AAI has. investments in AMD. All of these. companies are tangled together. Um, and. it's a small number of them owned or. controlled by these massive billionaires. um, who have the same kind of influence. on society that led to the creation of. the antitrust laws in the first place. >> Now, it's terrifying. And is it the job.

of the Justice Department to go in and. seek litigation regarding the monopolies. and the antitrust, or is it done by. civil litigation? Because I fear we're. not going to get any help from the. Justice Department. Well, that's the. problem. So, when I was at the Justice. Department um as a for antitrust, we. sued Apple, we sued Google, we sued. Ticket Master Live Nation to break them. up. We sued American Airlines, we sued. Real Page for increase in housing. prices. We sued Visa. I can go on and on. because these companies were too big.

And for over 20 years or 40 years, frankly, since the early 80s, we were. asleep at the switch in terms of. concentration our economy, which is. affecting the daily lives of average. Americans. Um, so well, we went in and. we took decisive action. Um, I'm afraid. we're not going to get that same level. of decisive action now. So, what's going. to be left to state attorneys general. who are great but underresourced and. private plaintiffs, but there's a real. risk right when we need antitrust most. at this time of change with AI, we're.

not going to get it. No, I don't have. And have are you aware of the. legislation that Trump is touting that. would limit the state's ability to. regulate AI? And that's number one. And. why do you think he's doing that? >> He's doing that as a handout to those. companies, right? So, what think about. um we have for people who trade. securities, we have the Securities. Exchange Commission, we have the. Department of Agriculture for. agriculture, we have health and human.

services and transportation. When it. comes to tech, we have nothing. Zero. The main law that controls privacy was. written in 1914. Congress has had a whole bunch of ideas. Um, and there's bipartisan support and. public support, but because of lobbying, Congress hasn't been able to do. anything. We have invented the. equivalent of cars and trucks, but we. have no stop signs, no lines on the. road, no traffic lights, and no speed. limits. So the feds because of the. gridlock in Congress, notwithstanding.

actual bipartisan support, haven't been. able to do anything. So it's going to be. up to the states. So in the absence of. the Fed stepping in, we need the states. to do something. Um the problem with the. executive order and this moratorium bill. that didn't get passed in Congress is. that it wants to basically eliminate the. ability of the states to do anything at. all while at the same time the feds have. no plan and no intention of doing. anything which leaves us in a complete. wild west. >> Talk about how AI and these social media.

companies how they disrupt our society. you know micro and macro if you will. Yes. So, I I love dogs. Um and um in I. take my dog for a walk and some people. have fences in their yards like we do to. keep their dogs from going out. Others. have electric fences where the dogs have. a little thing on their collar and every. time they get to the edge of the yard, they get a little zap so that they know. not to go out there. We're all dogs with. collars being zapped all the time. We're.

being in ways we don't even realize it. We're being conditioned to see things, to click on things, to think things, and. we're being manipulated in ways that we. don't even understand and cannot detect. Um, and we're and then is happening. almost every aspect of our lives. And it. is changing the way society functions. And when that control and that power is. handed to a small number of players, it. gives them a massive um um control not. just over what people think and do, but.

policy and politics. And it's a very. very dangerous thing. >> My guess is and I read that the. radicalization of people has come due to. obviously isolation and loneliness, all. of those things, but the algorithm is. feeding you. Is there a way to stop. that? >> We need lines on the road, stop signs, and traffic lights. We need we need not. just a little bit of transparency but we. need to understand um and go at a pace.

that um reflects the actual effect that. this is happening h having on our brains. especially children u but we also need. and in my view we need more players out. there we need more competition when it's. a small number of folks who are creating. these algorithms whether it's YouTube or. Facebook or Instagram uh or Tik Tok it. is having a massive effect on what we. see and think and it gives a lot of. control, too much control to a small. number of players. >> And.

on that topic, you have the news media, social media, streaming, you know, Paramount, CBS, all of these things are. now going to be owned by one entity. When I first started reading about that, I'm an attorney, but I only did divorce. law, so I'm not near smart enough to be. able to talk intelligently about. antirust. But my first thought was th. this is an antitrust violation. Um what. is your thought on that? >> Yeah. So I have very um significant.

thoughts on this. First let me say like. let's take a look at the whole Warner. situation right it is a sad statement on. society when when Warner Brothers which. owns the you know storied library of. movies HBO the crown jewel of media. streaming CNN and all these linear. channels when Warner Brothers is too. small and too subscale to be a. competitor on its own what does that. mean to the small business mean for the. small business in Iowa uh or the startup. coming out of a a university in Ohio.

Um, what does it say to the average. person who wants to start their own. business and fulfill the American dream. when they can't? If Warner Brothers is. too small to succeed on its own, we have. a problem in this country and that. problem is um in order to be big, you. have to be big and um and so you creates. this massive gap in wealth um and it. creates a massive gap in opportunity. Um. and and and so my concern is yes, there's the concentration, but there's.

this tendency toward bigness um that is. destroying really the essence of the. American dream, which is the in my view. the ability to start your own business. uh and to own your own house. and home. ownership and and small businesses are. being crowded out of society in a way. that I think is is um you know not only. harming the American dream but making. people feel like they have no hope and. no opportunity which creates anger um. and that anger can be harnessed into. division and that division can be.

exploited through algorithms and through. um thirsty politicians and that's the. world we're in today. You bring up. algorithms and I've always wanted to. know so these algorithms are developed. by these companies and then I've seen. like whistleblowers before Congress. What is the ability of the government to. go in and find out how are you creating. your algorithm? >> The government has subpoena authority. They have the ability to go in and. understand everything that's happening. When I was at the Department of Justice.

running the antitrust division, I. created a data science unit. And so for. example, we did an investigation into a. company called Real Page. uh which we. alleged um was fixing rents using. algorithms. And so all the landlords. would get access to this algorithm that. would help them set prices which was. optimized to raise the rent and reduce. the amount of apartments that were. available for rent to make it harder and. more expensive. Um and so we subpoena. the algorithm. This is all public. We. subpoena the algorithm and we had our. data scientists do a line by line review.

of the code to figure out what was. happening. we discovered exactly what. was going on in terms of the effect on. the American public and then we brought. a lawsuit and we said so um these we. need in in one of the deficiencies we. have in our government is that our. leaders one are too old um and they. don't understand this stuff uh and our. agencies are illequipped to uh actually. do the kinds of investigations necessary. to get to the bottom of what's happening. um in these technology markets and so we. need to rebuild the agencies to make.

sure that they are fit for purpose in a. modern economy and have the expertise. in-house to do this kind of stuff. I. >> I completely agree because I don't. understand how this is all trending, but. I understand it's dangerous. And I saw. that Australia recently limited use by. minors. Do you think that's where we. should be heading? I know it's where not. where we're heading, but do you believe. like the AI and social media that there. should be limits on that for the young. person whose brain is not fully.

developed? >> Absolutely. I mean it this is in many. respects very similar to kind of tobacco. um where you know it used to be that you. know kids would smoke in high school and. um or you know it would be glorified and. these are the kinds of things that are. having a significant effect on the. health of our children and and in this. case it's the mental health of our. children and um I know a lot of schools. and I support this are are banning the. use of cell phones and phones in schools. um people need to learn how to interact. with other humans um they're lonely.

um they're losing the ability to relate. socially and it's creating a sense of. loneliness, despair on top of the wealth. inequality, on top of the algorithmic. manipulation which in totality is. creating this divisive sad society um uh. which is highly vulnerable to. demagoguery. >> It certainly is. And like you said, it's. the same demagogues over and over and. over. Um, in terms of resourcing, are. there private groups? Because we, in my.

opinion, the federal government is not. going to stop this because Donald Trump. wants the money from big tech. That's. why they're giving him prizes and all of. those things. Are there private funds. that can help these states regulate this. because they are so underresourced and. not experts in this? >> Yeah. Yes. Right. Not enough. Right. There are some really good nonprofits. and foundations that are trying to do. this, but one of the problems we have is. is the zone is flooded. Um, we're like.

dogs in uh in the yard chasing. squirrels. Every day there's something. new. There's a new scandal. There's a. new overreach. And the it's the it's the. irony because if it were just one of. these kinds of scandals in government. that you talk about so eloquently on a. regular basis, it would be able we'd it. capture our attention. We'd be able to. dissect it. we be able to address it. when it's something new every day. We. can't keep up. And so what's happening. is not only are we allowing a lot of. this pernitious behavior, this bad.

behavior that is antithetical to our. democratic way of life um uh occurring, but we're not investing the kind of. resources we need to build the. government agencies that are fit for. purpose to do this kind of work on. technology. And so it's such a. distraction that we're falling short. went when we one of the most interesting. things that's happening right now. particularly post Doge is the New Deal. era is over right all of the. institutions that we had in government. were really a product of the New Deal.

era um that's been stripped down to the. studs all the norms all the resources. all of the continuity in those agencies. in Washington and elsewhere have. essentially been ripped down um we're. going to have to rebuild it from the. ground up when we finally get the will. and and the political will and the. public will to do that hopey sooner than. later, we're going to have to start from. scratch almost. Um, and so we're going. to need new ideas. We're going to need. new people. We're going to need new. voices. And that's one of the things I. think we need to do in this country is. we need to figure out not just how do we.

stop the demagoguery today because we'll. never get to a good place if we unless. we do that, but also how do we build and. how do we actually build a government. and a society that works for everyone, not just for the 1%. >> I completely agree. You Jonathan, thank. you so much for being on. I'm going to. have you on again because you break it. down like the stop sign and the traffic. lights. I get that. I can understand. that. So, as we navigate this, I hope to. have you on again. Thank you so much for. being on. >> It's my pleasure. Thank you.