IHIP News: Trump DROWNING in the Polls As ALL HELL BREAKS Loose! Expert on Voters WEIGHS IN!

All right, I think it's finally might be. happening. A poll is showing that Trump. is underwater with white working-class. voters. Pop this up. Trump reaches negative net approval with. working-class white voters for the first. time ever. I mean, when you dive into. the poll, it says 66% of white. working-class voters went for Trump over. Harris in 2024. And now only 49% approve. That is a drop. of 17%.

for one of Trump's core bases. And here. to discuss this with me, why do. working-class voters vote for a man. whose services exclusively millionaires. and billionaires is Dr. Jonathan Metzl. He is the director of the Department of. Medicine, Health, and Society and. Professor of Sociology and Psychiatry at. Vanderbilt University. Just a all-time. underachiever we have here. An author of. seven books including the protest. psychosis, dying of whiteness, and most.

recently what we've become living and. dying in a country of arms. Jonathan, welcome. Thanks so much. It's great to be here. I'm so happy to have you. So, this whole. phenomenon, like when I first started. voting, the Democratic Party was the. party of working-class. And in my time. of voting, I'm 51 years old now, there's. been a really big shift. And now the. working-class voters vote for the. Republican Party and exclusively for.

Donald Trump. I mean, he's like their. icon. What do you make of that? I've been researching this phenomenon. for. about 15 years now. I'm I'm speaking to. you from Tennessee this morning. I've. done a lot of work in rural Tennessee. and rural Kentucky and Missouri where. I'm from and Kansas where I where I. partially grew up. Um and talking to. people who seemingly voted against their. own interests. I've interviewed people. who vote against the Affordable Care Act. because, you know, it would give them.

free government health care. I've voted. I've interviewed people who voted for. politicians who are defunding the kid. the schools that their own kids go to. Um my research doesn't really find that. people are crazed or irrational. I think. that. no surprise to probably many of your. listeners, people are voting out of. fear. Politicians are telling them, uh. if you don't vote for me, no one will. protect you, that other people are out. to take what's yours. Um conditions of. austerity, people feel like there are. limited resources, and they're in a.

tribal fight against other groups for. resources. And so, I've kind of seen the. whole spectrum of this. Um and it's been. fascinating of my research because the. extent people will go to vote for those. politicians. I mean, in Dying of. Whiteness, I interviewed people who were. literally dying of medical conditions. that would have been covered by the. Affordable Care Act, um had their. politicians supported the Affordable. Care Act, but uh they they were not. willing to go there. So, partially this. is about voting, and partially it's. about identity, and I can just say it.

it's very deep. So, the the title Dying of Whiteness, is. there a component that people are fine. um taking policies that don't deliver. materially for them if they also don't. deliver for minorities? Is that why you. have whiteness in the title? I mean, partially. So, obviously I'm a. white American. I'm a a white. Southerner. I was doing focus groups. >> Yeah. And and so, I'm not trying to I'm not. trying to say like my own people are.

crazy or rational. I mean, they are at. times for for for certain voting. patterns and things like that. Um but I. would say that there was a kind of. emphasis on a kind of tribal identity. politics, a kind of sense that um. there's only so many resources, and if. you don't get them, other people are. going to take them. And so, I've been. seeing this. I mean, obviously we have a. long history in the South of. the Civil War and other horrible moments. of our of our history, but more. recently, when I just I'll never forget.

I was doing research around the. Affordable Care Act and I was doing a. focus group and I was interviewing one. man and I said, you know, he was quite. medically ill and I said, you know, if. the Affordable Care Act goes through in. Tennessee and your politicians support. it, you'll get dialysis, which you need. to stay alive. And he said, you know, I. realize that's probably the case, but. I'm not going to vote for and the quote. he used is, I'm not going to vote for. any system in which my tax dollars are. going to support Mexicans and welfare. queens. That was the quote quote he. used. And so, the idea was basically,

there's only so much resource and either. I'm going to get it or undeserving. others are going to get it. And I've. just seen how that narrative was. manipulated. to make people feel like they were in. competition with each other when in. fact, as a doctor I and as a health. policy expert, I can tell you, we're. much better off if we collaborate. I. mean, health care systems as one example. from my work, work much better if. everybody's kind of rowing in the same. direction. And so, in a way, trying to. get people to feel like they weren't in.

weren't in common cause with other. people is partially why our politics are. are so tribal. And so, is the is there. a propaganda component to this? Because. I see the through line, your book was. written before COVID, but there were so. many people who were terrified of. getting vaccinated and then they ended. up in the ER and they're on these, you. know, machines, I forget what they were. called, that turned them all around and. they were screaming, I want can I get. vaccinated now? Can I get vaccinated. now? And there was just an incredible. amount of propaganda done during this.

pandemic. And I'm not saying we did. everything right, but I'm saying that. the efforts that I saw weren't as much. control as they were life-saving. We. were trying to save people's lives. The. ACA is trying to save people's lives. But this notion that a lot of people on. the right have that they would cut their. nose off despite their faces just to. make sure black people or immigrants. don't get it. Um or that the federal. government is controlling them.

It How much does propaganda, the Fox. News, the right-wing media ecosystem, how much does that play into. radicalizing these people? Because I. grew up in Oklahoma City and I This is. just my own theory. And And now I live. in New York. When you live in the. suburbs of a city like Oklahoma City, it's very white. There's not a lot of. culture and so your church and. patriotism become your whole identity. And because there's no focus on arts and.

um other things that might be. thought-provoking. And what it What is. your take on all of that and the through. line with COVID and this and this um. Affordable Care Act person that you. interviewed? Well, I I think there's a. very powerful narrative that um there's. only certain amount of resource and. other people are wanting what you have. or if you don't get it, somebody else is. going to take it to your detriment. Um I. think that there's a very powerful. narrative that says, "I'm the only. person that's going to protect you or.

I'm the only other party that's going to. protect you." So, our politics very. broadly, I mean that the. when I wrote Dying of Whiteness, it was. before the first Trump presidency. It. was happening across the South. And I. was seeing people act in ways that I. found um ir- irrational or or against. what I thought were their own interest. at the time. But the narrative of um I'm. on your side against those other people. is a very powerful message and. particularly when resources start to get. taken away. And so, I think for me part.

of the power of that narrative was. people were in an austerity climate. I. mean, they there wasn't enough money for. the healthcare system um and people were. being told even before the first Trump. presidency here in Tennessee, um it's. because of these immigrants who are. pouring across the borders and you need. to look down and block the immigrants. Um but really the reason there wasn't um. resource in the system was because of. the massive tax cuts that were going uh. so all the money, all the resource that. would have paid for roads and healthcare.

system and schools that would have. benefited most people um. was not I I just wanted to shout when I. was doing the focus groups, you know, you're being taught to look down but. really look up because the issue is uh. the money in the system is going toward. a a very select few. And so in that. regard, it did foreshadow, I think, a. lot of the tensions that were happening. But I think the other important part of. my research in Dying of Whiteness, but. also in the gun book that I just. finished, um. is also that people are being told that. these kind of tribal identities are a.

source of power, that if we just stick. together and we reject the the. government, that the Democrats aren't. going to take control and then they. won't be able to do all these things for. you. And so it's not just straight-up. racism. I I maybe I thought that at one. time, but it's more that our politics uh. really have created a system in which. there's a price to pay for breaking with. your tribe. And so I'll just I'll never. forget like 2013, 2014, I'd ask people, "Why are you rejecting your own. healthcare?" And they said, "Well, if I. do it, um.

the Democrats are going to get more. popular and then our politicians aren't. going to take control and we won't we. won't be able to overtake the Supreme. Court and uh uh. you know, do away with Roe and all these. things." And so people were kind of. aware that this was a price that they. were paying in a way in in in really. what I see as our broken system which. rewards tribalization and. disincentivizes cooperation. So it's owning the libs. Like that's kind of the ethos is owning. the libs. We have this.

uh media ecosystem where um you know, the current president always talks about. the enemy from within. And knowing that. you were getting these answers in. 2013-2014. before he descended on the escalator and. then he starts with the enemy from. within. It sounds like this electorate. was ripe for that type of messaging, this owning the lib style messaging. I. want to switch gears quickly on your new. book about guns and I haven't read it. yet, but I've been thinking a lot about.

how. we're morally collapsing so much right. now and I'm thinking about what just. didn't happen when Trump got elected the. second time. I mean there's been a lot. of. horrible things that we just allow and. then, you know, push back to the corners. of our brain and I can't tell you how. many times now I get an alert on my. phone, mass shooting and I'm so. desensitized to it and we never really. um. write that wrong. And in in my state, my home state of. Oklahoma, there are 7-Elevens that have.

vending machines where you can buy ammo. Like um. seems like uh guns and at least in my. state they certainly have more rights. than women do. Um so how do you link this violent gun. culture that we have where you see these. mass shootings? Like I think about Sandy. Hook all the time, those kindergarteners. and they were in one closet with a you. know, a semi-automatic weapon and within. like 5 seconds, you know, a dozen of. them are dead. and we don't do anything about that. Does that set the psychological soil for.

this continued moral collapse we see. right now when you hear about the school. in Iran. and these girls get killed. and that was just kind of like, you. know, a blip and now we're just still. going on. Yesterday, you know, the. president wakes up and it's we're going. to wipe out a civilization. What How. much do you think our obsession with. guns has eroded our morals in this. country? Well, in the book I tell the. story of a mass shooting that happened. here in Nashville in 2018, the Nashville. Waffle House mass shooting and it was.

for me one of I mean there's so many. mass shootings. There's more than one. mass shooting a day in the United States. right now statistically. We have more. guns than people by quite quite a long. shot. Um, and so part of the story I. tell in the book is about this horrific. mass shooting that happened in the. middle of the night in a Waffle House to. incredibly just innocent people who were. out enjoying a meal, which was fraught. with all kinds of racial and political. tensions the shooting was. And and is. it's exactly what what you're asking in.

the question in your question, which is. I ask this question of It was really I. I've I've studied guns now for quite. some time, and this was one of the. clearest examples of how a shooting. could have been stopped by red flag laws. and background checks and assault. weapons bans. And instead what happened. after the shooting is what we see happen. after pretty much every mass shooting, which is that half the country says, "We. need more guns." And half the country. says, "We need more laws." And we're. literally talking about really different. different languages, different.

responses, different notions of safety. And so part of the story I tell in the. book is. what have we become as a democracy? It's. really a threat to democracy for me not. being able to address the problem of. mass shootings was a flashing sign a. decade ago about the failure of our. democracy that we couldn't come up. together um to keep people safe in. schools, in in in workplaces, places. where you shouldn't have to worry about. about dying. And so part of the story is.

about the failure of our democracy to. find common cause after these horrible. moments. And so part of what I ask is. what have we become as a democracy if we. can't keep people safe uh in this way. Uh and the other part is um in line with. exactly what you're asking, what have we. become when we habituate violence like. this? I mean, who habituates shootings. and violence like this? It's it's. soldiers in wartime. Um but in the. United States, we've habituated just the. dead the daily flow of I mean you hardly.

even hear about it on the news anymore. You know, and so the other story is what. does it mean for our country that we've. normalized this kind of violence and I. explore a bunch of different avenues in. the book that have to do with politics. and race and finance and region and. really try to lay out a plan for how we. can do better as a country and I feel. like if we if we fix the gun problem, it'll make it easier to fix the the. democracy problem. Yeah, I think so too. Somebody that I. love very much that worked for me. He.

died in October of 2024. He was shot and it they it was a. attempted robbery. in a parking lot. Beautiful. person. and this was at the election and I just. thought okay, I want Kamala to win so we. can really tackle this gun problem. because I think if you live in America. long enough, somebody you love. will get shot. Those are just the. statistics and it happened to me.

and now I feel like you I heard or read. an article that Trump's civil rights. division in the DOJ, they are going to make sure everybody. has more gun rights. It's just this insanity and I just can't. help but think there there is just a a. massive through line in the moral. erosion of. kids getting killed in Connecticut and. then kids getting killed in Iran and. they're just alerts on our phones and we. just keep moving.

What other countries. have any similar gun laws that we have? Are there any similar. >> Well, you know, in in the book I study. you know, Australia is often used as an. example. I've done a lot of research in. the Middle East where there are a lot of. guns. I've. looked at Scotland. I think the kind of the common through. line is that country isn't There's no. one policy, especially in the United. States right now. I mean, we've got. about 330 million people and.

probably about 450 million civilian. owned guns. So, we're not going to fix. this with any one policy, but I think. the common through line of countries. that have in the past addressed this. directly is that they've had a first of. all a political process where people. will get together and make compromise. and say, "Look, we're going to lock. ourselves in the room." Like even. Australia, for example, it wasn't like. it was like, "Okay, we're just going to. have gun control tomorrow." There was a. lot of contested feelings on all sides, but people said, "Look, we're going to. put the country first." And so, it's a.

sign of a healthy political process. that people are willing to compromise. So, that's part of it, but in the book I. actually I come to what were for me some. unexpected conclusions, which is that. again, I'm a policy person, but I. It's not like I've given up on policy, but I think given the number of guns we. have and the incredibly polarized. feelings about guns. and the ways that gun sales go up. after you know, after a protester is. killed in Minneapolis, all of a sudden. liberals are buying guns. And after.

George Floyd, black Americans are buying. guns. Guns become a response to feelings. of uncertainty. And so, in the book for. people Hopefully, people can get through. it by the end. I argue that this isn't. just a public health problem. It isn't. just a. a policy problem. It's also really a. call for us to come together and build. structures where people feel. structurally safer around one another. I. lay out a kind of 10-point plan for why. why I think we need to do that because. people kind of need to feel safe around.

their neighbors. Or else we're just. going to keep repeating this cycle, which isn't just a cycle about. shootings, which is horrific enough in. itself, but it's also spikes in gun. sales targeted to particular audiences. after any particular news cycle, which. is you know, also scary in in different. ways. Okay, last question. We recently saw in the mayoral election. in New York City, you saw people. come out and vote for a man that was. polling at 1%, a man who platforms.

universal human rights, a man who. ran on taxing the wealthy. And in this. instance, you saw the inverse of what. your book Buying. of Whiteness. claims. And you saw white people in. Manhattan in very wealthy neighborhoods. voting against their economic interest. And so, do you see that as a template. for our way out of here in teaching. moral clarity and that trickle-down.

economics don't work and that we need to. such a lie and that we need to lift up. you know, the most marginalized in our. society and that be the baseline. How. did How did that whole race? Cuz for me. it was really. I have a lot of hope about that. And so, how do you interpret that into all of. your analysis? And I know they're. different electorates. You're talking. about New York versus Southerners. But this idea that if people see their. government deliver materially for them.

that maybe we could have change. Well, um. you know, I could talk another whole. show about that question. because I think there are a couple. important points. First, I I make very. clear when I write and when I talk that. I'm I'm not talking about whiteness as. like a biological or a genetic category. I'm talking about it as a kind of. historical category of people who feel. like they are threatened by the advances. of other groups of people. And so, in that sense, I do think that.

there is hope for I mean, again, I'm. speaking to you from Tennessee this. morning. It's not like whiteness has. always meant the same thing in. Tennessee. We've got the Civil War. whiteness in Tennessee, but we've also. got, you know, Al Gore and a state that. came together to build the first public. private health health system in the. '90s. And so we're all kind of in this. cycle right now where I I guess the the. way to summarize this is I do think that. there is a common cause center that kind. of struggles to get out right now where. we say, "Look, government isn't working.

for everybody or infrastructure's not. working for everybody. So let's invest. Let's reallocate. Let's build better. roads and schools and bridges and safety. systems." And in that sense, I did a lot. of encouragement in the New York. election because I did think that people. were saying, "Look, let's let's create infrastructure. that's going to work for people." I know. my own feelings about the promise of. health care reform in New York were very. great about addressing inequalities. But. I also think there's a caveat which is. that we're all part of the same kind of.

media cycles that push the extremes and. try to marginalize or silence the. center. And so my my research really. shows the importance of people coming. together in common cause. And and really trying to figure out how. government can work. So I like you, I'm. very hopeful for New York. I hope that. things change and I again, I think it's. going to there's always going to be this. kind of tension between fixing things. for the most people and seeing. government work which I think is a great. model for the US and for the world, but.

also resisting the everything is. somebody else's fault. I mean, for. people who know my work, I really try to. resist stereotyping any group of people. and try and try to say like let's. understand people's drives and motiva-. motivations so that we can see who's an. enemy and who is willing to collaborate. with us in ways that we might not. expect. This has just been fascinating. So. listener, make sure you go buy Professor. Jonathan Metzl's books. There there many. and I want to thank you so much. I'd.

like to have you come back on again. I. think this is a time where we need to. have smart people and experts on. television or on YouTube at all times. because it is so important we listen to. the people that have actually done the. work. Um, thank you so much. It's my. honor. Thank you very much.