IHIP News: Stephen Miller CRACKING Under Pressure As His EVIL Plan BLOWS UP In His FACE!

Every time there's an election. >> Yeah. >> Caravans, migrants. >> Always. >> They're all these criminals are coming. across the border. >> Trans migrants. That one That one is the best one it is, yeah. They're going to eat you. Yeah, yeah. >> All right, Paola Ramos is an Emmy. Award-winning journalist, contributor. for MS now Telemundo, and author of. Defectors: The Rise of the Latino Far. Right and What It Means for America. She. also hosts a podcast with her dad, Jorge.

Ramos, called The Moment, and she joins. us today on I Hit News. Paola, did I say. it right? >> You got it right, actually, yes. >> Oh, good, good, good. That's one of my. favorite because where I come from it's. Paola. >> I know. Look, they call me Piola, Paola, all. sorts of things, so you did very well. >> I think what we have to And we don't. cover this that much, but. there are segments of the United States. where we have people that are here and.

they're not going anywhere. We have. a an Arab Muslim population. >> Yeah. >> We also have this fabulous, growing, multicultural Latino population that I. love, that I think is just such an asset. to America. And this voting block is not. a monolith. >> No. >> And everybody's jockeying for their. vote. Everybody's trying to understand. So, Trump got 46% of Latino voters in. the 2024. election. What do you think. >> He is one Latino man. He won that vote.

>> What do you think they see in him? >> I mean, so right before the election, right before November 2024, when they. asked most Latino voters, do you think. that Donald Trump is talking about you. when he's insulting immigrants? Like, do. you think he is criminalizing you? The. majority of Latino voters said no. Like, the majority of Latino voters did not. make the connection between Trump's. words and them. Is I think now, fast. forward to where we are, I think a lot. of people are coming to terms with this.

idea that regardless of how many. generations you've been in this country, and regardless of how American you feel, in Trump's America, you don't belong. Now, that doesn't mean that that's a a. vote for Democrats at all, which I think. that's where Democrats get it wrong. And. but what it does mean is that that 48%. saw something in Trump, and I think I. mean we can get into the what it is, but. I think the what I always remind myself. is that to be Latino or an immigrant. does not make you immune to.

anti-immigrant rhetoric. Like it does. not make you immune to anti-blackness. Does not make you immune to transphobia, which it was also a big issue. And the. the painful journey of assimilating in. this country and wanting to belong so. badly in the in-group, like that's. something that we go through a lot in. our own home countries. Is I think in. Trump, they saw power, and they saw. an entry point, you know, into. whiteness. They saw themselves as as part of a.

group because they didn't want to be. cast with those other bad immigrants, you know? They wanted to prove to this. Trump world that they were not those bad. guys. So, there's. it to me it goes beyond politics, right? There's a lot of psychology there, there's pain. >> Okay, so let me ask you this. Now, we have we're going to have a. generation of people just from these. close to 18 months. The where. children's memories are going to be. hiding. They're going to have a memory of their.

parents sitting them down and saying you. can't go to school today, or they're. going to have a memory of coming home. from school and a parent is gone. And we're going to have we have victims. of bigotry in the like. legalized systemic. targeting. Uh it's called the Kavanaugh. rule. Judge Kavanaugh, he doesn't like. his name associated with that, which is. why I like to bring it up every chance. that I can get. That you can pull. somebody over who looks or sounds. Latino. So,

after that, after you these this group. has fallen. prey to the horrors of systemic targeted. >> Yeah. >> racism, where do you think this leaves. Latino voters? And again, I know they're. not a monolith, but this is. really targeted racism. >> I think there's there's like three. different scenarios that I see. Number. one, I think maybe you can see a similar. story to what we saw in Arizona under. Joe Arpaio. I remember those days of.

like SB 1070, right? Where you had this. entire generation of Latinos that grew. up watching their parents being. criminalized, and then stopped, and and. deported, and self-deported. And then. what happened, right? That generation of. Latinos, many of whom were US-born, or. many of whom were dreamers, then became. the organizers that helped transform. Arizona into a purple state. And so. there's a there's a lot to learn from. what happened in Maricopa County. You can have that scenario. What I'm. also seeing are and this is this is a.

sad part that we never talk about. There. is a group of Latinos, some US-born, many that live in. mixed-status families, that have had. enough. That have been living in the. shadows not just under Trump, but also. under. an Obama administration, and a Biden. administration, and previous Democratic. administrations that promised. comprehensive immigration reform time. and time again. And I cannot tell you the amount of. conversations I've had with people that. wake up every day and say, "Is it time. to go?

Do I self-deport or not?" And I follow. many of those people that are packing up. their bags. and and choosing to go. And the sad part. is. is that there's something very. liberating about saying, "I've had. enough.". And and there's something. dignified of that choice, at least when. it's your choice, huh? So, that's also. happening. And then I think you have the other. scenario, um. which I can sense from organizers that. are finally. kind of still feel mistrust with both.

parties, but feel a sense of belonging, you know, in a sense of they're finding their. voice in this like anti-Trump world, huh? And because they they somehow. and I think you and I feel the same way, they somehow understand that it's worth. fighting for, you know, that this this. going back to this idea like that this. multiracial, multicultural, pluralistic. coalition is worth fighting for and that. it is the only hope to get to that, you know, more just version of this. experiment that we're all living in. And.

so, I see those those three, um. scenarios. You know, I'm I'm sometimes I feel like. I'm the most cynical person on Earth. because, you know, I'm I cover a lot of. these stories, but oftentimes and my dad. reminds me like, you know, there's something that. connects all of us Latinos, whether. you're a Trump supporter or not, someone. in your family, somewhere, someone believed that it was worth it to. come here because of whatever we left. behind and told us that it was worth.

fighting for here and, you know, my dad. is cheesy, I believe him sometimes and I. I. you know, but it's it's um. it's a fascinating, fascinating. community and and it and what drives me. is there's curiosity because we don't. know the answers. >> Okay, so, think let's think about it in. terms like this because you're. everything you're saying is really. thought-provoking to me because I I feel. like in order for us to get through this. fascist, abusive takeover that we're all. living through right now, we have to. build really strong coalitions and I. firmly believe with every fiber.

in my body that none of us are free. until all of us are free. I know that by. picking on and bullying and. marginalizing trans people, that leaves. Latinos vulnerable, it leaves women. vulnerable. It leaves everybody. vulnerable. So, I think we can leave no. one behind. When. survivors of the Holocaust or their. descendants came to the United States, they historically went to civil rights. marches and marched with black. Americans. That was the lesson like, you. know,

first they come for. How do you see. the Democrats? Because that's. I hate the two-party system, but it is. what we have. And I think the Democrats. are the best vehicle to that we can get. to stop bending the knee to corporations. and lift up universal human rights. How do the Democrats get this message to. let the Latino electorate? This linking. of universal human rights. Because I do. know there is a component of this. that Latinos historically are probably.

Catholic and maybe culturally. conservative. >> Yeah. >> Maybe lean on. >> Reagan said all the time. No, Reagan was. always the one that was like, well, Latinos are conservative. They just. don't. >> They they I mean, they might. historically lean towards patriarchal. tendencies. Um. maybe. lean towards um. some homophobia. >> Yeah. >> Because, you know, the Catholicism is. such a ubiquitous. presence. >> And evangelicalism now.

>> Yeah. >> So, Latinos and I know you you talk. about this all the time. >> I hate the Bible thumpers. >> [laughter]. >> I've heard. Um I I I determine atheists. But. anyways, but but that's so it is. interesting because Latinos are the have. the highest rate of conversion to. evangelicalism. More than any other group right now. And. and I think you kind of see a an. interesting story there. When when I. talk to when someone's interviewing. Latinos, now whether you recently. arrived here or they're migrants,

they're mixed status families. And And. you ask them like, what's one of the. first things you do when you when you. come to a country that that still feels. unfamiliar? Often times, they find a. church. Now, they find a church because. it's their way to community. >> And then what happens inside those. churches completely transforms one, no? So, of course there's there's, you know, people find community, they find. solidarity, but I have spent so much. time. in in these churches that. sort of insert these very problematic. pastors.

We know that story. And that then transform, I think, this. vulnerability into a. And I've seen it time and time again. I've spent so much time in the Rio. Grande Valley and in Arizona and in. California. I've seen the pastors. I've. been inside those rooms and I see the. way that they turn this vulnerability. um into a a political message and that. is all about. the right and the wrong, no? Um all. about um this fight between good and. evil. And and I see I see the way that that.

transforms even immigrants into into. suddenly then seeing their own and being. like, "Well, no, those other immigrants, no, they're the evil ones.". >> Is this intentional? Are they because. the right-wing evangelicals have been. organized for a very long time and they. know how powerful this binary, you know, emotional blackmail is? Are. they intentionally. targeting. >> Yeah, because they they can't survive. without Latinos. Now, do they want them in? That's a. different question, but they know. When.

when Donald Trump launches his um. Evangelicals for Trump. campaign in 2020, where does he go? He. goes to Miami. He goes to Miami, Florida. He doesn't go to any other sort. of, you know, white county. He goes to. Miami, Florida and he goes into one of. the Miami's largest. evangelical churches know that they know. that they have they need a percentage of. Latinos in order to survive. Now, in. order for this like white supremacist. coalition to survive, they need them and. they're there. And so, you know, the the every single.

evangelical coalition, you have these. like white pastors doing these like mass. um you know, programs along along the. southern border. I have seen them. And so, you know, I don't know enough to know if there's. if there's like a real. genuine calling for them to want them. in, but what I do know is that white. supremacy does not survive without a. percentage of Latinos. And then what's. interesting, too, is that these uh. You're going to have to help me with the.

pronunciation. Tele- tele-evangel- No, I. can't do it. >> Tele-evangelist. >> Tele-evangelist. Yeah, there are words I. can't say. So, the the I've seen. these tele-evangelist programmings. now switching into Spanish language in. Texas. Um and and suddenly they're Yeah, yeah, no, and then and it's happening. Um. and if you go to Texas, they're doing it. on purpose. It's strategic. >> Totally. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> God, that is terrible. I mean, I had You. know, I've seen how they do this in the.

Bible Belt. I see how they do this in. rural America. I see how. they have made uh. this a part of community and then and. then somebody's whole ethos boils down. to church and patriotism. And I see. firsthand cuz I grew up in in you know, suburban Oklahoma City, and I know how. strong of a pull this is. And so, the. right-wing white supremacist Christian. nationalist have been so targeted. You.

know, they made abortion an issue. They've targeted gay marriage. They've. target trans. And it's interesting um. the Latino What do they What do does the. Latino community know about Stephen. Miller? Do they know who he is? >> Um no, but it's funny. No. I mean, so I keep thinking and among. my friend of circles, we're always like, "Some Latina must have broken his. heart." Like something must have. happened. >> Totally. I think so, too.

>> in Santa Monica, like. something must have happened because. since like he has been dreaming of this. moment. >> Yeah. >> he was in in high school. Right? Since. he was literally like writing the. Remember like he was literally like. writing letters in his high school. Essentially saying that janitors, the. Latino janitors were there to like pick. up his trash and that they weren't doing. it. And that those other Latino students. around him, they had to assimilate. So. he's been like dreaming of this moment. forever. But going back to.

to this like, you know, white. supremacist thing. in 2022, one of the things that Stephen. Miller does in his group, America First. or America Legal First, um they go. into Spanish language counties in in. Colorado. And they're specifically. spreading out Spanish language flyers. with transphobic messaging. And and and wrapped into the kind of. this like Christian messaging of the. right and wrong, which is it all goes.

back to this like, you know, divine. calling. Like this is our calling. And. and I think Stephen Miller, not to give. him enough too much credit, but I think. they're all betting on this idea that. you that you really pointed out, which. is that. there's something about this Christian. and transphobic message that would. trigger a moral panic that is familiar. among some of us Latinos, right? That. grew up in these. colonized countries where these gender. norms were very much ingrained and the. lines between state and church have.

always been very blurry. And that. something about this transphobic like. Christian language would work. And it. did. And it did. It worked very, very. well. Because. beyond the religious aspects, what that. language does, which is the same thing. that anti-immigrant language does, which. is the same thing that fear-mongering. does, it essentially inspires a sense of. disgust. Right? And the disgust is the. is at the heart of what allows a human. to dehumanize the other. Right, like if. I find you disgusting, like I'm not. going to see you as a human. And that's.

what the transphobic messaging does very. well among us. And the anti-immigrant. message is the same thing. Um but it's. all to me and that's why like. when I write these books or when I, you. know, when I try and make sense of the. things, I talk to scientists and. psychologists because it's not politics, right? It's the feeling. Yeah. It's all. about this like visceral feeling. It's just disgust. >> think there's I've read this before, this isn't my original thought, there's. a bargain that is pitched to people. Like to let's talk about the role white.

triple trumpers. The bargain for them is. these are capitalists with no capital. But the Republican Party says, if you. vote with us, here are. immigrants, trans people, and gay. people, and black people that you get to. demonize. We're going to give you a. permission structure. So now. to the Latino community, is it here's. the bargain. You come to us and then. here is who you get to be better than, these gay people, these trans people. because this is back to the psychology.

and I agree with you, a lot of this is. psychological. It's and and these. powers, really nefarious powers know. this and they know how to tap into. this weakness and in in the face of the. Democratic Party. not standing up against genocide, not. standing for universal human rights, it. leaves this vacuum. >> Exactly. Well, yes, but also if you if you take a. step back and and you look at who.

Latinos are today versus like who they. were say when like when my dad was like. starting his career in in in the United. States, we've changed so much, right? Like the majority of Latinos right now. are the majority are US-born. The majority speak English, not Spanish. Um it's third generation Latinos are the. fastest growing segment among us. And so. what that means is that we are so much. more Americanized and assimilated than. what people think. Now, I think. there was a story, you know, 10 years. ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, that.

really centered our solidarity among. this like. immigrant story because it was it was. closer to us. And it made sense and we. were community, we were tribe. But that. kind of is disappearing, you know? And. we are more American. And my my. siblings, my brother barely speaks and. my dad hates it like he barely speaks. Spanish, right? [laughter] Like. so And so all this to say that that I. think Trumpism also bets on that idea, you know, that there is a small segment. and a growing segment of Latinos that. are so Americanized that that they too.

can sort of. um, buy into the us versus them game, to. your point. And it is true. And then on top of that, um, I do think. that there are certain kind of like. psychological and like historic things. that we have as Latinos that we never. talk about, right? All the racial. baggage that we carry from Latin. America, like it's so complex, right? Like we come from countries where like. the Spaniards and the colonizers. institutionalized caste systems, right? Where where we have been taught.

to to to sort of see. ethnicities and race and and very. problematic ways. Like we we we do this. like racial dance all the time. We've. our countries, we come from places where. we can like reclassify race and always. claim whiteness, you know, because of. the Europeans. Like I can't say the. amount of times that I've interviewed. like right-wing Latinos from the Proud. Boys, like Enrique Tarrio, all these. guys. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That we need to. >> What's going on with that? >> [clears throat]. >> Okay, so Enrique Tarrio, when you talk. to Enrique Tarrio,

he'll tell you, "Well, I'm 60% black.". Right? Because he's a a black Cuban man. and that's their way of shielding. themselves from being called racist. But. then he always says, "And I'm 40%. European.". Right? And that's that is typically when. you think of like the right-wing. like Latino manosphere, the entry point. into these like white supremacist. bubbles is always this like European. Eurocentric. um. direct lineages that we get to claim.

And they always do that, and that is. literally their way into that bubble. What's going on? Did he get that deal? Nothing. He's still a loser. And. >> [laughter]. >> No, no, but that's the. >> think I mean cuz I think about this with. like Clarence Thomas. I think about it. with Pam Bondi, you know, and she just. had her image taken off the Justice. Department thrown in the trash can. I. think about it with Scott Bessent. I. think about it with Tim Cook. I think. about it with all of the people that. think that they are the exception. because I growing up in white. suburbia. White I I went to a public high school.

and there was. hardly any diversity. I mean hardly any. I know these white supremacists. I know. them. 50 years I spent around it. I know. that there is the same way that they. judged Barack Obama, whose mother was. from Kansas Kansas, a heritage American. if you will. I know that Enrique of the. Proud Boys, I know what they think. I. know they're going to call him a W E T B. A C K because I've heard it my entire. life. I know that they see him as.

somebody, well, we'll get this Hispanic. to do it because we can get him to do. this job cheaper. >> That's exactly it. >> I know the way they view him. >> That's it. And that's it that's it. So, I was I was in Miami. when Trump. pardoned the the Proud Boys and pardoned. the January 6th insurrectionists. And I. was there for Enrique Tarrio's welcome. party, like literally, right? So, I was. I was not only I was. >> You were at the party? >> I was at the party, of course. So, at. the party, but I was at I was I was in. the press, right? Um but I I was.

covering the day before. this Latino insurrectionist pardon watch. party that they were hosting as Trump. was being inaugurated. Some people were. even wearing their like court-ordered. ankle bracelets. And they were all. waiting to be pardoned, and I'm saw it. And then they were waiting for Enrique. Tarrio's release. And the story will. make sense in a second, but essentially. Enrique Tarrio, you know, Trump pardons. him. Enrique Tarrio gets to Miami, where he. is essentially seen as this like. anti-communist hero and was the martyr.

And that's the way that he was received. He comes down, there's like. you know, photos of him in the airport. He finally has a press conference. What. I found interesting is that Enrique is. sitting there, you know, with his like. little glasses, and he was always this. like tough guy, but joking, he says, "Well, you know, maybe Trump is going to call me because. maybe I'm going to get a job at the. White House. Maybe I'll go to DC.". And there there in that voice, and I've I've covered him for a long. time. There there was something in me.

that said, "Oh, you really believe that. you will be called. Like you really. believe that he likes you. That you're. in the in-group.". No one has ever called him. He's still in Miami. And and and that's that's the story of a. lot of these people that in, you know, in the Proud Boys, Enrique saw. a boys club that made him feel cool. And. then suddenly the Roger Stones of the. world call him, and Trump calls him. because they need a Latinos for Trump. warrior. And then he becomes radicalized.

by that power, and he feels cool. And. then he becomes the literal soldier that. enlists everyone. to go into the Capitol. And then he serves a longer sentence. than anyone else, and now he's lonely. He has nothing. And. it goes back to what you said, in 2020 when Trump loses the election, all the Proud Boys look at Enrique. Tarrio, and the white men say, "The West belongs to the white race and. the white race alone, and we owe nothing.

to you.". And they kind of like turn their backs. on him. And it's exactly what you're. saying. It's all a game. It's all a. power game. >> Totally. >> Yeah. >> Um let's talk shift gears about the lady. that um. she did the rally in Miami and she saw. salsa dancing. I will vote for Donald. Trump and then fast forward and it's. really sad and I don't enjoy um. human suffering. Like I I don't really. like triple trumpers. Yeah. I don't want. to hang out with them.

But I don't want them to die and I want. them to have health care. All right. >> Um so this lady she is you know, I mean. it is high time she's campaigning for. Trump. She's having salsa rallies and it. is just you know, all grins and giggles. and then fast forward into Stephen. Miller's um. machinations of his plan to deport 100. million people so he can have an easier. route through the emergency room. Somebody she loves. >> Yeah. >> was deported and she's on camera snot.

slinging. and crying. Speak to. >> Yeah. >> the Latino voter who believed that they. were the exception and then somebody. they love. >> Oh, yeah. >> has been. >> It's happening everywhere. >> separated or damaged and and where what. is going on with her now? Is she still a. trumper? >> You know, it it so I am. I was just in Miami um. and so in Miami it's interesting, right? Because in Miami you have. the heart of Trump's Latino coalition. which are Cubans and Venezuelans and.

many of them truly truly believe that. they were untouchable, right? I cannot. tell you. the amount of Cuban voters who who are. the most loyal Trump voters out there. How now for the first time ever. they're now being impacted by. immigration. Like I I I am I have text. conversations and I'm on the phone with. with this one Cuban woman who voted for. Trump. rallied for Trump, campaigned for him. Her husband is who is also Cuban.

was detained and it was then deported to. Cuba, which is just like the hypocrisy. there, right? Of like you vote for this. man who promised to be the liberator, no, of the like communist regime and. then sends your husband to Cuba. And now. this this Cuban man is now essentially. in in in Mexico. And so that is happening everywhere, no? These these these Trump supporters that. are realizing that they too are being. racially profiled, no? And that they too. have family members that are now. impacted. And and it's very hard for.

Latino to not know someone that is being. impacted. And so the question is now. what? I I do think that there is some type of. of remorse, right? Like I I I do This. woman that I talked to, um, she doesn't. just feel guilty, she feels a lot of. shame. A lot of shame. And and to the point that like, you. know, she's bullied online and people. are like, "What, you know, you deserve. this." And so I think now what's. interesting for Democrats, right? That.

I'm also kind of seeing the way that. they're organizing, that's the moral. question for them, right? Do you bring. them in? Are you welcomed back in? Or are those already like if you already. voted for Trump once and you believed in. the message, can can you bring them in? And I don't think I don't I don't know. that they figured that out, no? I don't. I I'm not I'm not sure. >> I think the answer to that, Paula, is. I think accountability is important. >> Me too. >> And I think that if a a Latino person,

um, and I understand the dynamics of. trying to navigate. the United States in the racial. structure of it. >> Yeah. >> And, um, even though I'm a woman, my. skin, my accent, everything has put me, you know, ahead in a lot of ways in this. country. And if a Latino person found because. both parties have failed us and they. found some sort of home 77 million.

Americans did when they voted for him. But the message from that is. I screwed up and here's why. And like. recently I'll tell you, you know, I I. realized that I contributed. to a lot of this. I voted for. Hillary Clinton in 2016. >> I voted for her in 2016. >> Yeah. You know, I and and I at the time I. remember my son called me a a centrist. and I was like, I'm not a centrist. You. know, I'm.

so liberal in all of these things and I. don't dislike Hillary Clinton. I agree. with her probably on 90% of everything. but I realize now my lesson is. I was able to vote for Hillary Clinton. because I was a wealthy white woman. I. didn't have to worry about working class. Americans that didn't have health care, that didn't have dental care, that their. wages weren't going up because my wages. were going up. >> Right. >> And so there's an accountability that I. think is important and I think.

the answer to a lot of this is we all. have to be engaged politically and have. robust conversations. about all of it. >> About all of it. Yeah, you're right. I think the one of the questions that I. think is dividing the party and I think. it goes back to the kind of like the the. Hillary and and and Bernie division or. tension will be the ICE question. Like do you do you want and I think. candidates will be forced cuz one thing. is to to rally behind immigrants now now. suddenly like everyone cares about the. raids. But then the the moral question for the.

party will be like do you abolish ICE or. not? And I think that's going to be kind. of what, you know, where where where you. see the courage or not because what the. data shows you. and this is what like progressives are. talking about. What the data shows you. is that that messaging doesn't work. The abolishing ICE It doesn't work. That's That's That's like the the. numbers that I've seen is that the data. shows you that people don't want or. don't feel comfortable with that. language. That they want a sort of broader like,

you know, we want a comprehensive immigration. reform type of messaging. However, what. the organizers will tell you is that. they know that the right thing is to. abolish ICE. Like that is the North. Star. Right? Like that that as an. institution, as the history of ICE like. it is corrupt. No, take it down and start over with the. vision that you want. So that's to your. point. Like do you do the safe thing or. do you do the right thing? And what. strategically do you need to do the the. sort of the the politically right thing. in order for this long-term goal? I I'm.

of the belief like you, particularly now when so many people. feel politically homeless and like these. like bargaining chips. Like you you you. you fight for the waiting. Of course. >> Cuz I feel like. >> that they'll do that. >> I don't know either. Cuz I feel like, you know, focus group politics. and the Democrats are so disciplined on. that. And I feel like it it feels like right. now when I hear a corporate Dem talk, I. just want to go shut up. >> I know. I know. >> Stop it. >> I know. >> Believe in something. >> Yeah.

>> So do Latino voters or is that abolish. ICE? Or is it just as as nuanced as it is. when you get to the the the last the. last. >> I'm with you completely. The last um. you know, numbers I saw from from. political consultants is that they. they're not with it. And but I I also, you know, I I think this is where like. the Harris campaign really failed. I. think I think in in 2024 they also bet. on this idea that if if they too were. hardline on immigration, if they too. somehow tried to like out-Trump Trump at.

the border and be the ones that were. like, you know, but we actually mean it, that that would resonate with Latinas. And it didn't. So I think we spent, you. know, time talking about Trump, but the. truth is also that there is this deep. deep deep disillusionment among so many. Latinos that are so tired of being. promised the same things and that have. nothing to hold on to, right? Like no. real vision from Democrats. I think they. want more and they desperately want more. and I don't I don't believe that the.

that this like anti-Trump. a movement is enough. >> No, it's not. Not even not even. >> You need you need more. Of course not. You you need more. You need a vision and. that's where I go back to these like. stories that are heartbreaking, which is. the the decision to leave or not. Right? And the numbers show you that for. the first time in decades, there are. more immigrants leaving than coming. And. I don't think we understand as a society. like the profound long-term effects of. what it means to have generations of. immigrants that then go home and that. then tell the other family member like.

it's not worth it anymore. Right? Like. that American dream that like drove. everyone here, like that's gone. Like I. don't think we wrapped our heads around. like what that means and how that can. like transform this country. And that's. that's what I see, too. >> Okay, I also last question, I just want. to ask you about this. So, the. Republican messaging and you see it. every time there's an election. >> Yeah. >> Caravans, migrants. >> Always. >> They're all these criminals are coming. across the border. >> Trans migrants, yeah.

That one that one's the best one is, yeah. They're going to eat you. Yeah, yeah. >> So, I lived during all of this time in. Oklahoma, not that far from the border. I mean, it's you know, there's Mexico. Texas is a big state, but we have a huge. Latino population in Oklahoma. And it's. fantastic. I mean, I love I I worked in. an as an interior designer for 25-30. years and so my. as glamorous as that sounds, the. majority of my job I'm on a job site and.

I worked with immigrants every single. day, the same crews house after house, project after project, people that I now. know, have known for two decades that. are my friends. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> I never experienced any sort of. mass uh. uh immigrants running around with guns. and buses. being fairly close to the border. I. never experienced any of this. Is Is. that. >> It is. Of course it is. >> I mean, but is it like the. numbers of because.

if you talk I always know when I was. talking to somebody that watched Fox. News cuz they'd be like. you know, this immigration problem. I'm. like, you live in a gated. community that's all white. Every house. is a cracker. Assaulting cracker. Like, were the numbers so much higher with. Biden? >> They were high. Yeah, there there were a. lot of. >> What about deportations? >> They they were not as high. It It is It is true that there was a. high high influx of asylum seekers. coming in, but the way that the media.

talks about it. >> our economy? >> Of course it did. But but but but this. is why like and and when I'm on TV and. and when our colleagues are on TV like. I'm so careful with the language, right? One thing is calling it. and even MSNBC sometimes would call it. this way. One thing is saying there's a. border crisis. The other thing is saying. there's a humanitarian crisis, right? One thing is saying. >> So good. And that's And that's so. important because yes, there were. hundreds That is true. There were. hundreds and thousands of asylum seekers. that were coming. >> asylums is the problem. >> I'm going to say non-criminals, but.

people that in this country. have a constitutional right to seek. asylum. And that is true, there were many. And. it was mishandled and the and the Biden. administration mishandled it not for the. reasons that Trump will tell you, but. for the reasons because it was not. framed as a real humanitarian crisis. And that's what it was. And so, you know, it's and that's why. it's it's very you can call them illegal. aliens or you can call them undocumented. immigrants. You can say it's a border. crisis or a humanitarian crisis. You can. say that they're criminals or that they.

have a a legal right to seek asylum. And. and and and yes, it was a mess, but. Trumpism um thrives off the. fear-mongering. You know, it it it. thrives off those images. It thrives. off, you know, telling everyone that the. danger is imminent, that it's in your. backyard, it's about to be here. And to. be fair, what was interesting about. living in New York during that time. is that for the first time. New Yorkers that suddenly saw asylum. seekers in the streets were faced with. the reality, okay, so so what does it.

mean to be among immigrants that need. help? And sometimes the answer wasn't. what you thought it was. Remember that Trump made a lot of. interest in New York. Like he really. did. And so I think, you know, it one. thing is to talk about it and the other. thing is to be exposed to it like you. were every day, right? And to and to and. to really understand what you're talking. about and to find the real empathy and. curiosity in you to want to understand. and to not be led by the fear-mongering, which is so easy. And so, you know, I I I think now the.

interesting question is like. now that the fear-mongering is gone, now. now now that finally Americans of all. walks of life have been exposed in their. front yards with the raids and with who. immigrants really are, which are family. members and their dads and their moms. and their children. That might might change the. conversation. Perhaps. Again, I'm cynical because we've been. here before. Yeah, yeah. People cried. when family separation happened. The. whole country was morally outraged. And.

then we went back to Trump. So I'm only. I'm very cynical. >> I don't I I honestly don't blame you. We've elected this man twice by other. rising specifically immigrants and. living in a in the state that I did the. majority of my life, I know how powerful. it is to scapegoat like so much. I know. people um who triple Trumped. Ladies. that I know, rich white ladies that I. raised my kids with. That probably. thought, "Oh, Jennifer's a nut. She's a.

crazy atheist liberal." And then I get. these text messages. "Thank you so much for speaking out for. immigrants. My housekeeper's husband was. deported.". >> Right. And then he feels different now. >> You know, and so I mean, as grotesque as that is, that that that's what made them get. there. Um. I do think, you know, when I think about. that little boy, Liam. >> Liam, yeah. >> With his beanie. >> Yeah. >> And the little ears on that. And I I. think about the importance constantly of.

connecting. all of us. Universal human rights. Don't. leave anybody behind. Don't trust. politicians that that try to leave. something behind. And I think your. point, and I'd never heard this before, Paula, of calling it a humanitarian. crisis. The propaganda that we're sold. all the time and the way things are. labeled is really. it's the uh soft bigotry. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, that that really sinks in.

It's kind of like when people call uh. uh sexual abuse evidence. >> That's right. >> child porn or kitty porn. You know, and. that goes on and on and on. And it. there's a dehumanization to all of this. type of propaganda. Okay, so. last question. What do you think the Democrats. >> Mhm. >> message. is it is it specific to Latinos? Is it. specific to. immigration? What is the message for the. Democrats moving forward in the.

midterms? >> I mean, I think there's a lot to learn. from from Zolan, right? Like I. There's so much to learn from him. because because he he was and I know, you know, you know him, but he he was he. was capable of of of doing, I guess, what, you know, I meant them. He was capable of. of getting the the Trump supporters and. getting the Latino immigrants and the. Muslim Americans like he he was able to. build a coalition based on. a sense that everyone.

is worthy of belonging in a place, right? And like that is you know, then. you can get into the immigration stuff. but there's no no one is left behind and. you don't even have to like call people. out but it is it is like everyone is. worthy of this thing of this dream. >> Yeah, even the universal child care. If. your child's undocumented, they're still. getting. still getting a lunch. >> Sure. And and you can and if you and I. you know, I'm not a I'm not a political. strategist but I do believe in like if. you feel inspired right? Like if you if. you feel like.

you know, it's it's what I felt when I. was a graduating from college here in. New York and I worked to and I went to. go work for Barack Obama. Like I felt I. felt it. >> Yeah. >> Right? And people ask me all the time. like what does it mean to be a Latino or. Latina? Like I don't know but I know. that it's a feeling, right? Like I know. it's like it's something that I feel. when I walk into a space. I don't know how politicians think about. us but I know that it's like it feels. good. And I and I think that's it's like going. back to like a feeling of like man, yes. Like I I can get with this. So I don't. know off maybe the next time I'll have a.

better answer but I know. >> No, I I think that you know, we we often. say like oh I'm not I'm not a political. strategist but my podcast has gotten. super popular because I think political. strategists have kind of failed us. When. we look at how did we lose to Trump. twice to competent educated women with. experience and resumes that are out of. this world. >> That's another story. >> for us to lean into other perspectives.

other than just this. boring focus group polling. type stuff and I think that you know, I. was so happy to have you on because the. Latino. Latinos are here. They are a part of. America. You you you hear now people are talking. about we can't have Sharia law and these. Muslims all over the place. Arab Americans are here. Muslim. Americans are here. They're not going. anywhere. Latinos are not going. anywhere. Stephen Miller can try all he. wants to deport 100 million people. It's.

not going to happen. He's going to. deport some and he's going to kill some. That's going to happen. >> yeah. >> But these policies are widely unpopular. and so I just every chance we can build. coalitions and and connect us all. because I really believe we're all so. connected. >> too and that and you know, one one of. the things that I learned the most when. I reported in Latin America and. particularly the feminist movement of. Latin America, what is interesting to. study about them is the way in which all. of the different struggles are.

intertwined and woven in together, right? Like I've been covering people. that are protesting and then those are. the women that are then literally. running the like underground abortion. networks. I've seen them like wrap. abortion pills to send them to the. southern border. Those same organizers. are then the lesbian organizers that are. part of the LGBTQ rallies that are then. the ones that have that have like. you know, their cousins and aunts. connected to the crisis of the. disappeared women. And so there's. something to your point of like the way.

that these struggles are like. intertwined and like how do you get all. of these organizers to to go back to. that universal value? That you see a lot. in in Latin America. Despite the kind of. you know, the the the pendulum swings. there are insane, you know, from like. anti-colonial movements to fascism. The. constant is that like real real profound. like universal value that unites. this resistance movement. It's it's I. love I love going and seeing that. >> I love it, too. Paola Ramos, thank you.

so much for coming on. I hope that I can. have you on again. We're both in New. York now. >> Now I know now, yeah. Welcome. officially. >> Yes, thank you. Thank you. >> [music]. >> Oh.