IHIP News: Lead EPSTEIN Reporter Claims "It's WORSE Than I THOUGHT" as More VICTIMS Surface!

Joining us today is Julie K. Brown, who, as everyone knows, who's been paying. attention, broke the Epstein Files, Epstein probe wide open in 2017 with a. series of articles and investigative. journalism. Welcome, Julie. Thanks for. being with us. >> Great to be here. Okay. So, I want to. start by asking you when this drop came. from the Justice Department, which was. limited, redacted, but one interesting.

thing to me was that they were keeping. tabs on you. What was that like in that. moment? And has there been any followup. with the Justice Department on that? Well, you know, let me back up. I had. somebody point out to me that they saw. my names in connection with a plane. itinerary uh a flight uh itinerary. So, of course, that sounded very odd. I knew. my name would be in there because the. whole reason why the uh Southern. District of New York opened the case to.

begin with was because of my. investigative story in the Miami Herald. So, of course, they're mentioning my. story throughout, you know, did you see. this? Did you look at that? So, I knew. my name, but when someone called me and. said, "Well, there's a flight itinerary. with your name on it." And when they. showed me a copy of it, it had my maiden. name attached to it. And that's very odd. because I don't use my maiden name. professionally. So, I thought, "What is. this?" Now, everything is blacked out, of course, except for my name. So, all I.

know when I first looked at it was this. is my name because I have an unusual. maiden name. And I don't know why. they're doing this because everything's. all blacked out and you can't really. tell. So, it did take me a couple of. days to unravel what it was about. And. what they are saying is they weren't. monitoring me. They were monitoring one. of the victims who I had purchased a. flight ticket for. And the reason why,

and I didn't purchase it, actually, it. was the Miami Herald that purchased it. And I used my company credit card, which. I guess at the time, this was a long. time. This was a a while back, uh, had. my maiden name attached to my company. credit card. But anyway, what they were. trying to say was, look, we weren't. monitoring you. Uh, now keep in mind, my. name's the only thing on this page. practically, so it's hard for me to. understand what it was. So then, of. course, I look at the itinerary. Then I.

had to go back in my emails because this. was from uh you know eight years ago. It. was actually happened also on the. itinerary happened to be a flight that I. was taking the day before he was. arrested. So um so anyway, we we had. planned um my videographer Emily Micho. and I to fly to Arkansas to meet with uh. Maria and Annie Farmer, two victims, and. interview them. Um, Annie lived in.

Texas. Maria was in Arkansas. So, in. order to do the interview, we agreed to. fly. Mar uh Annie to Arkansas so we could all. do the interview in one place. Uh, so. that was what it was. They were. monitoring her itinerary and because I. had purchased the flight, my name was. attached to it. So, they're saying they. we weren't really following you. We. weren't monitoring you. We were really. monitoring a victim who they didn't even. really name on the record, but I knew.

who it was because that was the only. person I had ever a victim I had ever. bought a flight ticket for. So, it took. a bit, but uh it's interesting because. Annie called me. I was so glad she. called me because sometimes you kind of. feel like you're you're in this together. with this story. You know, you're in. this sort of club you don't want to. really be in, but you are. And in some. ways, of course, she's been through, the. victims have been through so much, but. in some ways, I feel their pain, you.

know, and I have to understand their. pain in order to write what I write. So, we're sort of in this club together. where we can commiserate sometimes. And. this was one of those cases because her, it turned out her husband. was also um unredacted in one of those. itineraries. So her husband's name was. out there. I didn't know it was her. husband at the time. She told me, she. said that they had even gotten a flight.

itinerary for her husband uh when she I. guess she was flying with him to some. place and they got his itinerary and the. whole thing didn't make any sense. because the itinerary think about it was. from 2008. 2019. and Annie was involved with the Epstein. Gelan Maxwell situation when she was. young when she was you did. So, it makes. sense they would monitor her flights.

from back then because they wanted to. show that they flew her to uh the the. ranch in New Mexico, for example. I'm. sure they wanted to know her itinerary. then, but why would they be wanting to. know how her itinerary in 2019? So, it's still a little bit um squishy, I think, about exactly what they were. doing, but I I feel pretty confident. they really it was a mistake on their. part that they didn't really mean to. catch me up in this. Uh or at least.

that's what I'm telling myself, >> right? As as the as they're prone to do. now, raiding journalists home. I mean, that's got to be scary thinking that. that's actually happening. being a. journalist on such a hot button case. Has that given you pause in any of this? >> Well, I haven't really flown much since. I saw that. So, I think when I fly, I'm. I it really has occurred to me that. maybe I better do something with my.

phone or something. I'm I'm just. concerned that I might end up somewhere. where I'll be taken aside and someone. will want to see what's on my phone. So. um you know I I I do have to be mindful. some of the things I have done recently. I I wouldn't want the government to know. who I'm talking to. >> So yes, it has given me a lot of pause. and it is making me more careful. I'm on. signal now more than I ever was before. So yes, because I'm I'm still.

investigating this story and I'm finding. out stuff. you know. >> what um I've heard and seen you talk. about this issue with the Epstein files. not you know they're being redacted so. heavily we're missing stuff but that you. have seen I'm sorry you've had. >> victims still coming forward contacting. you. >> ones that we hadn't even been on the. radar before this I mean that just makes. me sick to my stomach.

>> yeah it is it's astonishing and that's. why I I've said, "This is bigger than I. ever thought." Because, you know, what's. basically happened is this um movement, the the Epstein victims movement has. taken flight. And all these women have. their own little chats together, their. own little support mechanisms. They. never had this this organized before. >> So, they are talking to each other and. comparing notes and saying, "Oh yeah, I.

was with that guy. Oh yeah, I was on the. ranch then and and they're they're sort. of their own little investigative squad. where they're putting pieces together. and you know I am in contact with some. of them. So they are telling me what. they're hearing and how they're getting. you know of course all this is off the. record which makes it very difficult. because I can't really report what. they're saying. Uh, but I feel like it. gives me, you know, the encouragement to.

keep going because I know that this is. bigger and it's it's more than what most. people understand how big it is. And I'm. not sure how I can nail it because a lot. of them don't want to talk publicly and. these are some really powerful people. that are involved. Have has the Justice Department because. we saw that Pam Bondi said, "I'm. reopening the investigation. Have any of the victims you're in. contact with been contacted by the.

Justice Department if you can reveal. that?". >> I thought it was I thought it was. too. She's just saying that so. she can withhold documents. >> They don't want to know. They don't want. to know. They don't want to know. And to. be honest with you, I suspect that it's. this this has been the case all along. It's not even just a Trump. administration thing. I really think. that they they just really didn't take. this case as seriously as they should.

have from the get-go. And while there. were points in time I think they. reopened it and looked at it again and. tried to do more investigation, I think. that then it kind of got quiet and then. they moved on to something else and then. it came up again. So, it's been fits and. starts with this whole uh case and as a. result, if you don't really take it. seriously, you're not going to get to. the truth. >> Right. Well, and the people are so. powerful that are involved in this,

politicians, rich people. I mean, we. don't know how far it goes. What if you. were investigating and you had the power. of the Justice Department, where would. you be investigating? which which uh. offshoots of this would you pursue? >> I would talk to these victims. They're. the key. You know, that's number one. Because if they felt secure and safe and. protected, that would be the first thing. I would do as an in as a prosecutor I or.

FBI investigator. I would make sure that. they were so protected, you know, and. then I would I if you would talk to them. like I talked to them, you would be able. to put these pieces together. I mean, you would have the evidence. You would. put it together. You know, I think a lot. of these victims have, you know, besides. saying what happened, um, I think a lot. of them have evidence like photographs,

emails, uh, texts, uh, you know, other. people that they told about. I just. think you could put this together if you. were really dedicated to doing that and. you could do it uh, through the victims. At least part of it could be built. through the victims. But these victims. don't trust the FBI or the government. right now. So they're not going to, you. know, then I don't think that they want. to talk to them because they're too. scared. >> Well, and why wouldn't they be? You see. Gain Maxwell, what has been, you know,

her being shipped off to the country. club prison and dogs everywhere, you. know. So what when they saw that when. you know Galain is now in this posh. prison with dogs, how did that impact. them? I mean it that's another piece of that. makes them feel like they distrust the. government. That that might even be the. biggest sign not to talk to the. government for them because the. government in some ways I mean look they. haven't tal you know Bondi hasn't talked.

to the victims but yet she sent her. second in command to talk to the person. that prayed upon them that sexually. abused them that trafficked them. So. think about, you know, what that looks. like. You know, that you're giving. you're, you know, you're giving these, you know, this benefit and and the. benefit of the doubt and the, you know, you're moving her to cushy confines and. doing all these things and you won't. even talk to the victims. I mean, it's.

just a bad look. Well, it looks so favor, you know, like. so much favoritism. And I when all this. was starting to boil up, my first. thought was bring in the victims to. Congress. You don't need to depose Gain. Maxwell or Bill Clinton, bring in the. victims. And I find it interesting that. that has never been on the table even. between Democrats or Republicans. They've spoken with the victims, but. they don't want to know what the victims. have to say. They don't It's It's a.

matter of They're trying to cover it up. They're They don't want the truth. really. They want to cover it up and. that's why they're doing it the way they. are doing it. I mean, and by the way, the American public isn't stupid. They. can see through this. They know exactly. what's happening here. Um, that it is a. cover up. I I hear that word more often. than I have ever heard it concerning. what's going on now. And And as the. cliche goes, the cover up is almost.

sometimes worse than the crime. >> Yeah. you know, because when you're. trying to cover it up, you make. mistakes. There's still people that know. out there with the Justice Department. that knows. Um, you know, I one would. hope that someone would finally come. forward and say, "Look, they're they're. hiding this or they're hiding that." Uh, but, you know, I we'll see. I mean, this. whole thing is so chaotic the way that. they're doing it that I think it's being.

done this way on purpose, right? To keep. the information from coming out, >> keep people confused, offguard, uh, you know, just kind of not knowing. I mean, it's hard for me to figure out. these files. So, if it's hard for. someone like me, could you imagine? I. mean just the regular public or you know. a media influencer who doesn't know the. history of the case. It's even more you. know difficult to find out what's. important here. [snorts] What about did.

you learn anything from the Epstein. drop? I mean I know they were. ridiculously limited. They're not all, you know, not all the pages have been. released, but did you have any did you. find out any new information with the. drops that were dropped other than that. you were being monitored on your flight. logs? Well, what I saw was, you know, when I. started this this whole case way back in. 2016, and as I investigated, I could see how.

these victims were betrayed. consistently, not only, you know, by. Epstein and its lawyers and the private. investigators that tailed them and made. their life hell, but in some cases, even. their own lawyers in some cases betrayed. them. Their families betrayed them. The. prosecutors betrayed them. The FBI. agents who promised them that they were. going to arrest him betrayed them. And. now what I can see in here is. they told me that. Okay, there was some.

evidence of that that I could show in my. original reporting, but now I can see it. even more. I mean, there there is an. email in there from the lead prosecutor. in Florida, and this really breaks my heart. I hope. I don't cry, but there is an email in. there where she says to one of her. bosses, "We've got to get support for. these women. They they want closure on. this case." I just presented it before.

the grand jury and I had to take a break. and I I took a break and I came back in. the grand jury room and I overheard a. grand juror say, "Wow, I'm really glad. they're presenting this still because I. thought they were going to whitewash. it." Right? Even the jurors knew that. that that there was a good chance. And. then she's saying, "I've got to get help. for the victims. They want closure. One. of them tried committing suicide this. past week." Could you imagine you're. handling a case and one of your.

witnesses tries to commit suicide? I. mean, if that's not, you know, a sign. that you that this the the Justice. Department was, you know, not doing its. job, it's that because these were girls, remember back then? They were, you know, 14, 15, 16 year old girls and they had. no virtually no counseling, no victim. support. They said that they had gotten. a grant to get someone to help them and.

the people that were assigned to the. case were based in Maryland. >> That seems odd. So, there was going to. be Zoom or was it just We can offer. [clears throat] this back in 2005. This. was 2007. So, no. I mean, but doesn't. this also show that they weren't serious. about this case. >> if they're not protecting the victims? you know, they were never serious about.

this case and or Epstein made it so that. they um sort of pressured them enough to. just sort of let the case go, you know, whitewash it, which is what they did, which is exactly and I feel like we're. still continuing to see that effort. Did. you find anything in your reporting that. Jeffrey Epstein was connected to the. Israeli intelligence service? I think. I've asked you that before, but I was. just Well, he was very close to Aub. Barack uh who was a former Israeli prime.

minister. Um in fact, you know, it in. court records we have seen that he's. been accused of being involved with some. of these um young women and girls. So, he has denied it. Um he has also made it. very hard for journalists to report it. He's very on top of whatever is written. out there and and has his lawyers. immediately um get, you know, mount a.

campaign anytime someone tries to really. get close uh to that piece of the story. But beyond that, he was doing a lot of. business with Epstein. And you know, I I. I think he was involved to some degree. I don't think that he was a spy per se. I think just like everything else. Epstein uh said he he you know did or he. knew or uh you know he was very much of. a guy who liked to brag about his. contacts and I think that he liked to.

pretend that he was a spy but I don't. think he he that was his uh I think he. just used it to make money you know his. connections with foreign intelligence. and maybe shared shared some information. that he had uh but I mean we really. don't know because we haven't seen those. files. >> Okay. I have two follow two questions. Number one, did you see that Mark. Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein's brother,

which I have such complicated. relationship about what I think about. him given his brother, but anyway, that's a whole different story that he. is releasing an autopsy that said. in February that he procured that. Epstein was murdered. And what are your. thoughts on that? [snorts]. >> As I understand, it's funny, I was just. looking into this yesterday and uh as I. understand it, now I haven't really. gotten to the bottom of it yet, but as I. understand it, it sounds like he had. some more forensics done on the setup.

there, you know, at the jail. Like, you. know, think about I've always, you know, I'm in the position that he did not. commit suicide. Okay. So, >> you know, when you do a crime scene. investigation, one of the things that you do do is sort. of this forensic examination of the. crime scene. So, as I understand it, that is what he has he's had some people.

do, and that's what they're going to. release, I think, in February. So it. might be sort of a a sort of like a. diagram or a reenactment of this to show. that it he couldn't possibly have. committed suicide in the way that they. say he committed suicide. So that's what. my understanding so far anyway. I'm. still um you know picking away at it, but that's what I think he did. In other. words, he's doing the job that the. Bureau of Prisons or the Just andor the.

Justice Department should have done from. day one. He's hiring the people that are. really looking at the crime scene, which. is going to be especially challenging. because they never sealed the crime. scene there. It was contaminated. They. let people in there. They didn't take. photographs. They didn't never took. samples, you know, DNA samples or uh, you know, they didn't even I don't even. think they saved the so-called uh noose. that he used. I don't even think they. saved that.

>> Is that incredible? I mean, really, that. is incredible how badly it was botched. >> Botched or maybe done. >> like that on purpose. You know, it it's. you know, they should have treated it. like a suspicious death, a potential. crime from the very beginning, and they. didn't. And they took it. It was too. short amount of time before bar. announced it was a suicide. I mean, you. don't do that. It's it's you do an. investigation first. You you say.

something like, "It looks like a. suicide, but we really don't know until. we really examine all the evidence and. interview everybody." But that's not. what they did. >> It really is just I mean it you want it. defies logic how badly the cover up has. gone on this like death all the way up. You know you have Alex Aosta who is the. US attorney in charge of the. investigation. Well, I didn't read the. victim statements. It's like.

>> this case was handled. So I mean. malpractice across the board on every. single stop. Well, let me add one more. thing about Acasta because that's. another that was part of the Epstein. files that I was really particularly. interested in is his testimony before. the uh office of professional. responsibility that investigated this. after my series happened. And he not. only said that he didn't read the victim. statement, he admitted in there that he. wasn't aware of how many victims there.

were. >> So, can you imagine? I mean, there is a. big difference if you have three victims. and but they had almost 40 almost 40. teenagers. And he said he didn't know that. How. could you not know that? You're making a decision whether to. prosecute a man who is one of the most. prolific pedophiles in history. And by. the way, there's a lot of argument over. the word pedophile pertaining to him.

because uh technically the definition of. pedophilia is someone that really goes. after children as in under the age of 10. preuberty. Uh but the reason why I am okay with. calling it that is because the the women. the girls I'm sorry the girls that. Epstein prayed upon weren't just girls. They were girls that looked like, right? They were 12, 11, nine. He did not He.

didn't like developed girls. He wanted. the innocent girls that were scared. because that's what he liked. He got off. on the fact that they were scared. That's why he didn't go and pay the $300. he was paying these girls to a. prostitute because he could have. afforded the most high class prostitutes. ever. Think the the derangement that he. had was that he liked the scared little.

girls. He liked that. I know it's. horrible to think about, but it's. important for people to understand that. because a lot of people think, and. including the original Palm Beach State. prosecutor who didn't really even want. to prosecute him at all, they considered. these girls to be prostitutes at the. time, >> which is so gross. >> It that is in of itself. It's also when. you think about the per pe the girls. that he prayed upon, it's even worse.

because they were clearly not. prostitutes. They were just girls that. didn't haven't found their way yet in. life and were still struggling in many. ways uh with either um their families, you know, some of them were homeless. even. So, you know, it's important to. understand and that's sometimes what's. lost in Alex Aosta's. um list of excuses for not following.

through with prosecuting him. >> Yeah, I just don't think there's any. excuse for any of this behavior. And. please let the victims know that we will. continue to support them. If they want. to, you know, have a platform to speak, we would love to have them. Julie, I. would love for you to come back. I find. every time I have a conversation with. you, I learn something and it's. interesting. So, thank you for being on. and I hope you will come back again. Thanks for having me.