IHIP News: 🚨 CHAOS ERUPTS After Trump Makes FATAL Move EXPOSING His Plot to NEVER LEAVE WH!

You teach at the college where Charlie. Kirk was assassinated. >> I now get to see all sorts of hot takes. that I know are demonstrably wrong. >> [music]. >> I think silence by white folk like you. and me is capitulating to the fascist. violence. >> The fake news that we just talked about. >> I want to be careful though here. When. you [music] say fake news, that's. something that Trump uses a lot. So my. [music] are you a Trump supporter or you. >> So. um.

Goodness, where where do I start again. with this? >> Joining me today on I hit news is Greg. Jackson. He is a historian and host of. history that doesn't suck podcast and. author of a new book Been There Done. That. Professor, how are you today? >> I'm doing all right. Yourself? >> Fantastic. Um you in your new book, you. argue that America's problems at the. moment aren't unprecedented. Make the.

case for my listeners who read the news. every day and feel like this is like an. abusive show. that this isn't the worst it can be. >> Absolutely. Look, as I state right out. the gate, I am not saying that things. are copacetic. Um. what I am saying is that we tend to. romanticize the past and we lose sight. of the fact that a liberal democracy. requires constant fights and it has been. constant fights. And so I go through. over a century of American history. taking us from 1790s up to 1900 regaling.

you with tales of fake news, uh of contested elections, and political. violence that I think will make most. people's hair stand on edge. >> So is your purpose of that to let people. know that if we are engaged and if we. participate it can hold. >> Yes. In fact, my that's what I drive to. in the conclusion is that look. what I've encountered as I've traveled.

the country as this. as my career took this odd turn. I'm a. university professor, right? Like let's. start there. I have a PhD. I'm a tenured. history professor. And then my podcast. history that doesn't suck it blew up and. the next thing I know I'm touring the. country. I'm getting to speak with. people that I otherwise never would have. met. And the question I get at Q&A after. Q&A is are we at the end? Is this. falling apart? That's what drove me to. say. I'm going to I'm going to do it a deep. study, put my historical skills to use.

and really interrogate the question. And. this book is the product. And what I. came away with as I stared into the. deepest darkest abysses of our history. was the realization that. our institutions are stronger than we. tend to think they are in the moment. and that our better angels, if I can use. a Lincoln phrase, do tend to come out of. the woodwork. That's what we've had. happen over our course of 250 years. But. that isn't a Pollyanna everything's. going to be okay. The message is that.

those better angels do have to show up. And what I want to demonstrate is that. previous generations have fought similar. battles. And the point to that isn't to. say, oh so everything's great, but. rather to say, look, you've won these. battles before, right? If if you if we. personify America, Uncle Sam is in the. ring. He's fighting an old contender he's. beaten before. So this lack of hope, that cynicism is my biggest fear, Jen. Cynicism is what will kill the Republic.

So that's what my point is. I'm I'm not. here to say everything's easy, everything's fine, don't sweat it. I'm. actually saying, yes, sweat it, but. you're strong enough for this. That's. the point. >> You read you write in your book about. political violence kind of being baked. into this country's history and I. completely agree with that. And you. teach at the college where Charlie Kirk. was assassinated. So when politician when politicians. clutch their pearls and say this is not. who we are, historically, we have been. a a a a country that, at least in my.

lifetime, and you know, my parent that. values the profits that gun makers make. over safety. of its citizenry. We value the profits. that health insurance companies make. over the treatment of somebody with. cancer. We really have a. a a violent history, whether that. violence is active, meaning an active. shooter that shoots somebody, or. passive. The passive um.

bigotry of of not standing up for sick. people and standing up to corporations, there's a real reckoning that I think. like Trump's kind of like late-stage. Versailles stuff, it's really exposing. to the electorate that you're talking. about that's looking for hope. Like. we're starting to diagnose what a lot of. the problems are that during the '90s or. the early 2000s, we were kind of on. cruise control, especially if you're a. white person and you make pretty good.

money, um politics didn't really affect you. much. We're all starting to be open our. eyes a little bit to these problems that. have been simmering that perhaps prepped. the psychological soil for fascism to. take hold. And as you see, as you're professor, and. you see this administration attack. universities and attack education, are. you concerned about those attacks and. other universities that have capitulated. and bent the knee to this regime?

>> So, >> [clears throat]. >> goodness. Um let let me start with your. your pointing out, as I rightly do in in. my book, the violence that is rampant in. our history. >> Yeah. >> Um. yeah, and. >> [laughter]. >> that is one of the big takeaways I I. I got from this book, which pushed me. into political thought. Um, obviously, I do that already for a. living, but I ended up going far deeper. than I expected to. Which, that's the. mark of a good book, right? It It takes.

you places you don't mean to go. Um, I feel like I really faced down just how. violent our species is, and I did come. away with more faith in liberal. democracy in that I believe even with. our many episodes of violence. And, this. is not to say that any of it's. acceptable. This is the hard thing that. we need to be able to grasp, is that. progress and. in in doing better than other. Churchill, right? Democracy is the best,

or excuse me, the worst form of. government apart from all the others. Right? This like acknowledgement of um. the imperfection that is there. And, you. know, I. I went into the Baltimore riots in in in. my book. This instance where. Jeffersonian Republicans literally. murdered Federalists because they. disagreed over um a war declaration, and. tortured them. Um, held their eyeballs open after beating.

them senseless and dripped candle wax on. them, and convinced themselves they were. doing this patriotically, right? That's. the [snorts] sort of thing I do want. Americans to realize that's in us. That's in our uh ability to to do, even. with. uh our our institutions, our ideas as. great as they are, that human nature is. still there. Um, so we we have to look. to those better ideals. Uh, as you mentioned, yeah, I teach at Utah Valley University. Um, my career's been built here. My wife.

teaches here. Uh, this is my community. And, um I was not on campus that day. I was actually writing, as it happened. >> [snorts]. >> Um, that. for for being an event I was not at, it. sure has impacted my life. You know, our. entire campus community feels it. >> [snorts]. >> Um and. again, fake news that I. I discussed in my book. Well,

uh. I now get to see all sorts of hot takes. that I know are demonstrably wrong. uh by. members of of the media. I'll say. probably would be members of the media. >> Like what? What's an example of a take. that's demonstra- demonstrably wrong so. my viewer and I know? >> Yeah, you know, I'll go ahead and name. one. Um. Candace Owens. Um. and I couldn't uh I I I couldn't even. begin. to. well, I don't want to begin to be honest.

to list the the things that you know, the clips that that get sent. Um but you know, incorrectly identifying. people um. in roles that they don't have. The the. uh. Well, I said I wouldn't. I'll stop. there. Um [snorts] but you know, that these. have very real impacts. So, um. >> You know what strikes me most about uh. the brutal murder of Charlie Kirk is. that nobody that loves him.

or supports him. is speaking out against gun violence. They're speaking about everything else, but they're not speaking about the thing. that killed him. Which is America has a crazy gun problem. and it's very unique to us. And it it it it's. it's amazing to me that we all witnessed. such a brutal murder on the phone and. not his wife, nobody in politics that he. worked with, nobody in Turning Point, not one person. mentions.

the senseless gun deaths. And what a. disservice does that do to Charlie Kirk, but to all of the other people who have. been killed senselessly because we value. the profits of the gun. uh. system and all of the the profiteers. that make all of these guns. We value. their profits more than we do other. human beings. So much so. that we all saw somebody get murdered. who I completely disagree with almost. everything Charlie Kirk said. I found. him to be racist. I found him to be uh.

homophobic. I found him to be a. religious bigot of the highest order, but I don't think he should have died. I. don't think he should have been brutally. murdered at that age. Uh at any age. And. he Nobody will speak to the fact of what. really kills him. And that's just And. this in this era of Trumpism where we've. ushered in all of this. uh anti-intellectualism. that nobody can really peg what really.

killed this guy. Utah State University. should not have had a gun on campus that. day. Period. >> Well, Jen. you know, this is. I mean, again, this is a kind of exactly. why I've I've written this book is I. want to facilitate better conversation. Um I want uh Americans to to realize. that. uh we've got to be able to talk across. the aisle. Um and I know that might. sound like a platitude, but. um. for for each side to tell themselves how.

much they agree with each other, that. doesn't move the needle. There's got to. be uh. there's got to be that discourse that. that happens. And moreover, um you know, the the idea that this stuff is unique, that is that is the thing that I want to. take to task and and that I have. That. this sort of violence. is there. That the fake news that we. just talked about I mean, this example. in and of itself it encapsulates. >> though here. When you say fake news,

that's something that Trump uses a lot. >> Yeah. >> And he uses that to dismantle expertise. and to dismantle facts. >> Yeah. >> And he is he's weaponized that phrase. And so if we you define when you say. fake news what you're referring to. >> Yes, I mean I'm referring to intentional. misinformation. That's how it's defined. by the New York Times. That's how it's. defined by Psalms. And I state that. clearly in chapter one. And that's. specifically why I do not label. James Madison and Alexander Hamilton's. complete slams against each other.

They're gross misrepresentations of each. other in their newspapers as fake news. because they believed it. So, arguably we could say that. that many of the things a lot of us call. fake news today. are not that. We need to know the intent like libel. and slander. So, that's where I come. down on that term. Also, it's not a new term as I. get to in chapter eight. Fake news has. at least been in existence since 1894. That's when it first showed up.

1894. >> That's what gets me about a lot of this. stuff is how painfully unoriginal a lot. of stuff that Trump. says. Make America great again was first. coined by Ronald Reagan. You're saying. fake news was coined in the 1800s. A lot of his playbook um. and a lot of Stephen Miller's speeches. are eerily reminiscent of Hitler or. Joseph Goebbels speeches just translated. from German to English. The hunting you. know, his campaign promise that he's.

going to get rid of the enemy from. within. And now he is. launching a lot of McCarthy era style. red scare tactics of getting the speaker. of the house Mike Johnson to ask. Congress for an additional $350 billion. in funding to fight communism within. the United States of America. A lot of this stuff has already been. tried and defeated. And yet these morons. are trying it all again. And as far as.

you talk about talking to people across. the aisle, I'm not really interested in doing that. with people that triple Trumped. Now, if somebody voted for Mitt Romney, who I disagreed with, I wouldn't have. any problem. sitting down and talking to somebody who. voted for Mitt Romney three times cuz. Mitt Romney was a decent person. The dehumanization, the murders of. Rene Good and Alex Pretty, the. deporting of people that are immigrants.

to countries that they have no. affiliation with, making a place called. Alligator Alcatraz, uh the dismissive nature of trans. people, of gay people, of black people, of immigrants is so abhorrent to me. I. don't want to sit down and talk to these. people. Now, this is where we differ. They want. to call me a libtard and they hope that. I die or move out of the country. I. don't wish them ill will. I hope they. have health care. I hope that they have um.

can send their kids to a school where. their kids don't have to do active. shooter drills. But I don't want to sit. down and talk to these people because I. think they're crazy and I think. they're in a cult. I think these people. are cooked. I think you they morally. broken themselves so much. um that I think the best way to. communicate with them is positive policy. that impacts their lives. >> I Look, I. It's that that that's an entirely fair. uh take. Um I'm not saying that, you.

know, we all Again, I I. None of my answers are simplistic. They. they really aren't. Um I'm not saying. everything's uh hunky-dory and I'm not. saying that if we all just had sat down. and had a good chat, we could have a. Kumbaya moment and feel good and hold. hands. No. In fact, my whole point is that we. have violently, viciously disagreed with. each other. We've lied to each other. The lies stated in the election of 1828. were so bad, they literally put Rachel. Jackson in the grave, for God's sake.

>> But But here's here's here's where I I. think. we need to discuss. Yes, these things happened in history, and we can go and it's and it's good to. know and it's comforting to know we. overcame them. But we have a a monster. at the door at the gates right now, and. it is materially. affecting Americans' lives right this. very moment. And to not identify it as. the the savagery that this regime is.

doing seems dismissive of the people. that are experiencing the very abuse. abuses that this administration is. purposefully. extolling on them at because of their. desire for recreational cruelty and to. plunder the country. And so I think that. in order to get through we have to with. very clear eyes call it what it is, fascism. As clear-eyed as we possibly can. Recreational cruelty, bigotry,

homophobia, Christian nationalism. And. we have to be explicit because I have. found when I experience anxiety. and there's something I don't know, then. not knowing makes me even more anxious. And so knowing things, knowing what. we're up against is so important. And. while this interview's been great, you've tiptoed around identifying in. clear terms what we're up against and. what Trump is and what what has been. ushered into America right now. And I.

think that we all have to be explicit in. calling it what it is. Otherwise, it's. just a passive form of. gaslighting. >> Interesting. Um. so. my mind goes to Paxton's Anatomy of. Fascism. Uh right the foremost scholar. on on fascism. Um and he makes a few points. Uh. again, historian, academic.

Well, I don't want to dance, but I. definitely want to get meaty here. Um. he he points out that a number of the. things that we identify with fascism. Um. Uh it's basically a form of extreme. national I always think it's it's. valuable to define these sorts of. things, right? >> Right. >> Um so fascism itself itself, my working. definition of that is that it is a form. of extreme nationalism. It glories in. blood and uh military conquest. >> Check. Check.

>> That it um. uh it doesn't have a a clear economic. policy. Um. >> Check. >> It uh will do whatever's in in the in. the good of the state. >> [snorts]. >> Um. cult of personality with a one-party. system. And uh. so th- th- those are those are all. factors and this is where Jen I I feel. like perhaps. and I don't want to put words in your. mouth, tell me if you think I've got you. wrong. I think you're you're speaking. like we're past 1933 and I'm saying. we're not. That uh we're past the Acerbo.

Law, if we go with the Italy comparison. >> I'm saying we're in the epicenter of it. And I think that. he is making moves right now to. intervene in the last guardrail that we. have, which are these midterms that are. coming up. And he is making moves. He has already. been talking about having ICE at polling. places. Well, who did Brett Kavanaugh. rule that ICE could harass with. impunity? People that look suspicious or had.

accents. The Kavanaugh rule, which is. systemic racism. So I'm very concerned. that we have three branches of. government and. two of the three have capitulated to the. executive branch. I'm very concerned for. the safety of my black and brown fellow. Americans, particularly those that might. have an accent, that can legally vote, that are going to try to go vote, especially when we've seen somebody was. just murdered yesterday in Maine by this. regime. Um a guy was pulled out of his car, shot.

in the head with his three-year-old. daughter. And so I would say we're at the. epicenter of all of that stuff right. now. And. >> Well so forgive me epicenter. >> people of fascism. >> So you. When I say when I say past 1930 I'm not. trying to like. >> I know that you what what my listeners. are looking for in my show. >> Yeah. >> is. hard-hitting. acknowledgements as to what we're up. against. And I I appreciate so much that.

we our history has been violent and and. for black people I would argue they've. lived in a fascist America for a very. long time. Um. What what we what we saw happen to Renee. Goodman and Alex Preedy. was new for white people to see, but. that was not new for black Americans to. see the state um arbitrarily execute. somebody. >> Sure. Um 50,000 plus lynchings in the. reconstruction era, yeah. I take I take. your point. >> Yeah. And I feel like we're escalating.

to such a place right now that. we all have to sound the alarm bells. about how important this next election. is because it is the final guardrail. because he's surrounded by a bunch of. morally rotten, corrupt. And there's no other way to. dance around it. I'm not trying to be. cute. I'm not trying to be patronizing. to them. That's what they are. This is. not America's best foot forward. These.

are all people that have failed forward. that he intentionally, and I've had. Timothy Snyder, Ruth Ben-Ghiat, and. Jason Stanley, all historians and. experts in in fascism on this. podcast, and they've all rung the alarm. bells about all of the steps and. machinations that Trump and his army of. obsequious sycophants are colluding to. do right now. And I think that all roads. look to trying to rig the election so. that he can stay in power because their.

dream these guys is to make the United. States a Christian nationalist nation. >> And my argument isn't to dismiss the. concerns that you have, Jen. Um it's to point out that as extreme. as. this moment feels, what I'm saying is. that Americans have felt that extremity. generation after generation. And there. is value, uh very meaningful value, to us.

understanding that that pressure is more. the norm than abnormal because this is. you know, as as James Madison tells us. in Federalist 51, that men are not. angels. That power is. a constant thing that that nefarious. actors will will reach for. >> what I'm I'm not getting from you that. is kind of. unsettling. >> Okay. >> is any critique of Trump and this. regime.

As a historian, as I'm just not seeing. that. So, my are you a Trump supporter. or you. >> I I'm not. Um and I will I will tell you candidly I. I have been very um. non-partisan in the history that I put. forward, uh not in a dance-around way. To me, it's highly disciplined. It is. >> Do you think that's helpful to be. non-partisan now as a white person that. when we see all of these immigrants and. marginalized people, LGBTQ+ people under.

attack, don't you think that's the for. us to stand up and use our privilege and. our microphones in the most vociferous, helpful way we possibly can? >> I think that as a professor um that. being a a voice that the. that the middle is that is still. um. unsure where they are going. >> middle? >> Well,

it it's not like center left and center. right disappeared, Jen. Uh they. that they disappeared from the center. >> with Here's I agree in in 10 years ago. we had that, but right now. as we're seeing a man who has abysmal. approval rating, something in the low. 30s. Um there's been zero investigation. um of the murders of Alex Pretty, Renee. Gooder, any of the other people that. have died in nice custody, zero. They. have done all of this stuff with. impunity. Um Trump is talking about the Save Act,

which would disenfranchise. millions of women and their ability to. vote. In my home state of Oklahoma, women have lost their right to abortion. care. And some are dying because they're. unable to have a private procedure with. their OBGYN. So, these issues are. existential right now. They're not um. For me, and pardon the pushback, but I. think that these conversations are. important and healthy. The middle.

>> is a place where somebody with your skin. color and my skin color and our income. can sit because it hasn't affected us. yet. But if you think about what Trump will. come for, his people tried to kill Mike Pence. They built. a gallow and a noose, and he was white, Christian, Republican, Trump ass-kisser extraordinaire, and they chanted hang Mike Pence. So I.

believe this moment we're in is ex-. existential and I think silence by white. folk like you and me is capitulating to. the fascist. violence and I don't think it's helpful. and I think we all as Americans, whether. it's me with you on this podcast or. people in our families or people in our. social circles, this is not a middle. The middle is a luxury that your. complexion offers you. This is a time to. stand up and fight with every American.

against these injustices. and. encourage each other to to turn out so. that it is too big to rig because there. is so much suffering right now. Black. and brown communities, LGBTQ+. communities and my. my moral compass is with them. >> So. um. goodness, where where do I start here. with this? Thank you. Uh I I appreciate.

I appreciate your passion and I I think. we agree more than. than you might be thinking. Um [snorts]. but but yeah, I I think we we probably. do have some disagreement here as well. Um. I think that it's valuable to have those. who. those who are fighting vociferously and. I also think that it's valuable to be. able to build trust um as an expert. Yes, you know, being being able to say,

"Look, I want to lay out the history for. you to let you be able to see what's. happened without telling you. what conclusion you're supposed to. make." I've been in the classroom for. over a decade and having all sorts of. conversations. >> true that the government shouldn't. arbitrarily deny people due process and. kill them? >> Of course, [laughter] I'm I'm not okay. with that. >> we are. You know what I mean? Like I. think that. I I think that that's just where we are. and it does a disservice to not call it. out. And I I don't know if you're.

fearful because of the university that. you teach at and I'm sure it's probably. pretty mag leaning in Utah. It's as red. as it gets and I understand those people. because I grew up. >> Now you UVU is I mean it's university. Um. I I wouldn't read over read into that. We have faculty of. you know, every different sort of. uh persuasion you can imagine. >> Uh-huh. >> It's it's a very welcoming community. >> Well, I just I thank you for your time.

today and I just hope that as we all. have microphones and I'm so proud that. your podcast has blown up and then. you're willing to offer people hope. I also think we have to offer them our. unconditional support, especially the. most marginalized among us. And I say. this to you as an atheist who has never. had any religion in my life. I feel a. moral calling in sharing this earth with. other human beings to stick up for the. most marginalized and those people. happen to be the scapegoats that this.

fascist regime is using to distract from. the plundering that they're doing with. all of our systems right now. And so. um I encourage you to go watch my. episodes with um your colleagues Ruth. Ben-Ghiat, Jason Stanley, and Timothy. Snyder because they're really experts in. this and sound the alarm bells as to. what we're up against which is scary, but it's also therapeutic to know the. truth of what is exactly happening right. now and the people that we need to.

advocate for the most are the very. people that this regime is bullying. >> Well, thank you. Uh I'll be happy to to. to give that a listen. Um I also think. that. >> [snorts]. >> you will uh find and I don't mean this. in a change of mind sort of way, Jen. Um. I I think you'll find chapter seven very. interesting. Um. that is the chapter in which I walk. through. the Supreme Court decisions that lead. Mike Pence.

to uh excuse me, Supreme Supreme Court. decisions and uh. congressional decisions that. lead Mike Pence to. say on January 6th. I don't have the power to to count these. votes. That that history. I think is really important for. Americans to understand and that is what. I seek to calmly explain. So, I think that if you dive into that, you you may see. you're going to walk away thinking. okay, maybe there's a.

>> I walk away from that thinking J.D. Vance is a million times more correct. than Mike Pence with. >> mean walk away from my chapter, not. January 6th. >> Right. I know. I know, but I'm just. saying the one thing. >> understanding. >> The one thing Trump learned from Trump. 1.0 is how to be better at. self-preservation. He learned to not have a Mike Pence. He. learned and he got somebody who Peter. Thiel was able to buy. So, think about. how morally rotten J.D. Vance is. He. said Trump was America's Hitler, opioid. an opiate for the masses, and then he.

does a complete 180 and Trump humiliates. him every single day. Made him the fraud. czar. I mean, in a in a completely. humiliating move. So, I have zero faith. right now in the institutions because. these corrupt men are upholding them. >> I'm not saying you should have So, you. have faith in them or or any of that. What I'm trying to say is that we have a. history that tells us these sorts of. things have happened before and they. contain lessons for how we approach it. in the present. And I.

that's what my hundreds of pages lay. out. >> Okay. I hope I hope that that there is a. Mike Pence style person that exists in. the Trump regime that upholds because I. love this country and I think it's. beautiful and I think it's full of so. many beautiful people. So I hope that. your premise is true. I just I don't. trust these people at all. I think this. is something different. >> And I'm not asking anyone to trust any. regime or politician. I'm not asking us. to trust the people. I'm I'm encouraging.

us to be engaged. So I do want to be. very clear as as we wrap up. I get the. impression you might mistakenly think. I'm somehow writing an apology letter or. an approval thing. Uh no, I'm trying to. very clearly, starkly say this is what. we've done in the past. These are things. we've gone through. We've overcome them. We can fight them today and I deliver. it. Yeah, I'm I'm a very uh measured person. in my words. But I think you're going to find a lot. of precision and scalpel cutting that.

you'll enjoy. >> I like it. All right, have a great day. Thank you. >> You too. Thanks.