Lena Waithe | Good Hang with Amy Poehler

Hello everyone. Welcome to another. episode of Good Hang. We are very. excited about our guest today. It is. Lena Waithe. Writer, producer, actor. Lena does so. many things so well and she's the. coolest and we're going to get into how. cool she is today. We're going to get. into the way she likes to work. We're. going to talk about our love of Chicago. We're going to talk about Blockbuster, a. place where you had to go and rent.

videos in person. We're going to talk. about the fact that she is the first. black woman to ever win a Primetime Emmy. in comedy writing. We're going to talk. about couple's therapy. We're going to. get into it. But before we do that, um. we always have this section of the show. where we speak to somebody who knows our. guest, who wants to speak well behind. their back and give me some questions to. ask. And joining me are the two. directors, Tony Award winning directors, um of Cats the Jellicle Ball, the show.

that is out on Broadway as we speak and. that Lena is a producer on. And so let's. hear from Jailene Levinson and Bill. Rauch. Gentlemen. Hello. All right, if you've been putting off. car shopping because it sounds like a. whole thing, buying your car online on. Autotrader makes it way easier. Like. almost easier than ordering your coffee. easier. Really. You can shop tons of.

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Autotrader's got options that fit how. you want to buy. Buy your car online on. Autotrader. Really. >> [music]. >> Hi Bill. >> Hi Jaylen. Nice to meet you. By the way, congratulations. Tony winners. >> It did happen. Thank you. Thank you. >> Before we talk about our guest, just.

talk me through the evening of the. Tonys, which is my absolute favorite. award show. >> Yeah, it was very surreal. I was there. with my. mother and my partner. And. me and Bill sat by each other and we had. to keep playing musical chairs cuz we. Bill had family, I had family and we. wanted to like share the time that we. sat by them during the award show. And we were lucky. >> Wait, hold on. Let's I'm going to pause. right there. You guys were making sure.

that you gave everyone in your family. enough time. >> Oh, yeah. >> We need to talk. This is why you can't. bring family to award shows. >> [laughter]. >> Well, for those people that haven't had. the pleasure of coming to Broadway and. seeing Jelicle Ball, can you just. explain what it is? >> It is Andrew Lloyd Webber's musical Cats. set in the ballroom scene. that grew out of Harlem. and. so our cats are not cats, they're human.

beings competing in in a competitive. ball and. I have never been part of a project in. my whole life that more people love. Like whatever your age, whatever your. relationship to ballroom, whatever your. relationship to Andrew Lloyd Webber's. musical, people who love it, people who. think they hate it, everybody has. just. an overwhelmingly positive experience at. the telecobalt. >> And Jaylen, can you explain when you say.

ballroom what that means? >> Yeah, so so ballroom is an underground. queer culture. that really started in New York around. 1970, 71, 72. And and really the main architect at the. very beginning was a a powerful, beautiful. woman named Crystal LaBeija who was a. trans woman of color who had felt. rejected by the queer pageant scene.

>> Mhm. >> And left that scene to start what we. know to be ballroom. And when I say. ballroom as a culture, much like hip. hop, it has multiple elements. So. ballroom is both an artistic way of. expressing oneself. It is competition, it is vogue, it is all of those kind of. aesthetic things that we understand. about the craft, but it's also a chosen. family structure that's been organized. since 1972. And the structure is.

centered around the house and the house. mother and the house father. And really. springs out of a need for young queer. kids who needed family at a very. specific point in their coming to. themselves to catch them when maybe. their biological families were not able. to do so. >> It's such a great transition into Lena. Waithe because her work. and her life is kind of a living example. of sharing herself with the world, trying to figure out how to mentor other.

people, try to make people feel seen and. and feel included. And you know, as a. black queer woman, she is like breaking. barriers everywhere she goes. She's the. first here, she's the first there. She's. like supporting and giving her voice to. to all different kinds of projects, and. she is a producer on your show. >> That's right. >> How did that come to be? >> She saw it when we did it downtown. She. saw the off-Broadway production, and she.

flipped over it, and she brought Cynthia. Erivo to see it, and she just let us. know. if this thing can happen on Broadway, I. want to be part of it. I want to be part. of making it happen. And she was present from. one of our first rehearsals in the. rehearsal room, right on through. previews, right on through the run. She's been a actively engaged producer. in a beautiful way. >> What does a producer on Broadway need to. do? >> Well, they need to find us some money. >> [laughter].

>> Exactly. >> That's a big uh. >> Exactly. >> part of it. >> [laughter]. >> Um the the art of the commerce. Um but. but apart from that, also Lena is, you know, a public figure with a. platform and is able to to. shepherd eyes to issues that she really. cares about. And I know one of the. things that Lena really cares about in. this season in her life is like how to. get people off their phones and into a. room together. And so, um I'm glad that.

Cats is a show that she feels is within. that mission. I know she's starting to. do a lot of theater work herself, but um. yeah, letting people know that this kind. of getting up out of your couch, leaving. your house, and being in a room with. strangers, as weird as that kink is, might be the only way um for us to make. it through the next few years. >> I feel like New York is is often like.

leading by example how it feels to be. among a lot of people, right? New York. is always bustling, and even just the. recent Knicks win is a great example of. watching people, you know, literally rub. shoulders and enjoy something together. >> You can get the high from the Knicks. winning. every day at Casa del Fuego bar. >> [laughter]. >> It is that. It is that exciting. It is that. thrilling. It builds community in that. direct way.

>> [laughter]. >> Not untrue. >> And uh what is she What's Lena like as a. person? Cuz I I I like to speak well. behind people's back and I have found. Lena to be really, really like. charming, curious, kind. What's it been. like to get to know her? What kind of. person is she? >> She's so dope. She's so cool and. >> This is the thing I'm a little worried. about. She's so cool. >> Yeah, she is. It that is true. >> Like I already put on my outfit today. and I look I just before I came in, I.

looked in the mirror and I went, "Oh, [ __ ] Jesus Christ." Like. >> [laughter]. >> she's You cannot beat You can't beat. She's just so cool. >> I know, but you're cool, too. >> Oh my god, I'm not fishing, but thank. you. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> [laughter]. >> She's also she's so at ease with herself. that it that it puts you at ease. So, it's It'd be so fun to hang out with. her. >> So, we have a thing here where we we ask. uh to get a question for our guest. And. you guys have been working with Lena. You know her professionally.

We're going to get into a bunch of. different things that she does, but is. there anything that you think I should. ask her? Big, small, silly, important. that you'd want to hear her talk about. >> When did you first know in your soul. that you were an artist? >> Great. It's such a theater question. >> Yeah. >> That is such a theater question. I love. it. Well, let's all get in a circle. Let's. ask each other this. Direct eye contact. >> While we while we give each other back. rubs [laughter] in the circle. >> Yep, love it. >> One is like I've also seen Lena a lot on.

the dance floor. And you know, however cool she is in. life, she is a hundred times cooler on. the dance floor. And I'm always like. trying to think about how to maintain. coolness on the dance floor, and I would. ask her who does she like to see on the. dance floor? Like when she goes out, she's like, "Ah, that person's here. I. know the party the the dancing is going. to be on 10." Um so I'd be curious to.

know what that list is for her. >> Ah, these are incredible questions. You. guys are such good directors. Well, thank you guys so much for this. time. I know Lena will be thrilled that. we talked and um it and it means a lot. Congratulations again on your success. and on your artistry and the great work. that you do and the way that you're. putting. like you said uh so much joy into the. world. >> Right back at you, Amy. Right back at. you, Amy. You're doing really joyful. work and we need this podcast and this.

platform in the world right now. >> Absolutely. >> Thanks. Let's just keep trying to do it. against the rising tide of nonsense. Thank you both. Pleasure to meet you. both. >> Thank you, Amy. >> We love you, Lena. >> [laughter]. >> Bye, guys. >> This episode is brought to you by. Subaru. There's something about being on. the road that has a way of leading to. those unexpectedly memorable little. moments. And in the all new 2026 Subaru. Hybrid, it's like the destination isn't.

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Illinois. I was really, really looking forward to. today cuz just cuz we get to hang out. I. mean, come on. >> We like to do this when we're not on. camera. >> I know. Well, it's been um Lena Waithe. is here, everybody. Very exciting. How's. your mic? >> Good. Good. I'm just like placing it. I. don't have a hat on, which I was like. debating, like do I wear a hat? I'm I'm. feeling good about the no hat. >> Yeah, I like I mean, Lena, everything you wear is so cool. >> [laughter]. >> It's like Lena. >> Like everything you wear, how you take.

it off, it looks cool. It looks. >> [laughter]. >> so cool. Come on. >> [gasps]. >> Coolest hat ever. >> own clothes. This is my own. [ __ ] right here. >> Yeah, I mean, it's it's like I want to. get into that actually cuz it's kind. [clears throat] of. I want to talk to you about your your. look, your style, and also just the fact. that like. you're like the. my coolest friend. >> [laughter]. >> We'll get there. We'll get there. Okay. You're the best. >> Um so, I heard you say something in. another podcast that I love, and I've. been thinking about it a lot.

>> Jesus. Who Who does? >> No, but I think it was another podcast. or. or TikTok probably, but. >> Okay. Not on there. >> No, but that that's where I get all my. information, but. >> you and everybody else. >> Yeah, I know. But, you said like if. you're You said something that I love, which is if you're afraid that people. are going to steal your ideas, you. should have more ideas. >> That is true. I did say that. Probably a. podcast. >> And it's such a great. it's it's I I totally agree. Can you. tell me what you mean by that?

>> Okay, this is a really good way to kick. off such a great question. Cuz you. that's why you have a Peabody. Um. >> [laughter]. >> Here's the deal. There's this. interesting debate that happens where a. lot of. up-and-coming writers, if you will, talk. about how do I protect my ideas? Should I get them copywritten? Should I. like register them with the WGA? And I. always have a very I guess it's a hot. take response, which is I don't believe someone can. steal your idea. >> Say more. I love it. >> I just feel like if I tried to write my.

version of Parks and Rec, >> Mhm. >> it wouldn't be Parks and Rec. It would. be something else. Even if we all have the same like idea, is it's going to be different because. it's coming from two completely. different writers. There's no way to. copy and paste. an idea. And also, artists, I believe, are oftentimes in the same wave. There's. a reason why sometimes you see There's a. lot of vampire stuff happening right. now. There's a lot of horror going on. over here. And and it's just because.

artists are sort of in their their their. silo, they're doing their thing, and. then they kind of decide, "Oh, I'm going. to write this." Or this is or this is. this is very similar to this thing. I just don't buy it. >> Well, what I love about it is it's like. it's the opposite of grasping energy, right? Which is like I have this idea, the idea is so important, it's my one. idea. And also, I I as I've gotten. older, I feel like the idea is part of. part of it, but so much of it is people. and process, too. Like An idea can only. go so far. >> Right.

>> And it's just and thinking about the. theme for this pod today, I was thinking. about just that cuz I feel like that. statement kind of defines your career. Like you you do so many different. things. You produce, you write, you act, you know, you're you do a podcast, you. you're in a theater, you're in TV. Like. you have this. this way of moving through the world. creatively that doesn't feel like your. last idea was your best idea and that. you're grasping too hard on any one. thing. Would you think that's Would you. say that's true?

>> Yeah, I think that's really beautifully. put. Thank you for saying that. I. receive it. I think that I think you're right. I. think people want to protect what they. have. >> Yeah. >> And there've been like big cases about. people saying this was stolen from this. There's this was stolen. There's those. things out there. But I just sort of. feel like I'm always evolving as a. person. So therefore the work should be. evolving as well. I feel like sometimes. you see artists and they just keep kind. of doing the same thing and they're sort. of similar. And sometimes that works for. people, but I think for me I want my art.

to always reflect where I am in my life. >> Yeah, and I want to be in a different. place in my life. And you're. you're never a snob. >> No. >> But you know, like you like what you like and you like. it passionately and then you make things. like you kind of high low in in what you. do and what you make and also what I. love about you is you love TV. >> I am obsessed with television. Yeah, I. mean. >> I know cuz it it raised us. It It raised. me, too. >> It was like, you know, I'd say. two-parent household, my mom and the. television. I mean and.

>> watching when you were young? Like what. was the on TV? >> You know, it's interesting going like I. was a kid in the '90s and I think that. was a really interesting time for. television. There was a lot of sitcoms. happening. >> Yeah. >> We had Perfect Strangers. You got Okay, The Cosby Show, A Different World, obviously. But also you had stuff like. Martin and and Living Single and also In. Living Color. Um and also we had Nick at. Night where we could watch the old shows. like Dick Van Dyke Show, like, you know, obviously The Mary Tyler Moore Show. which. >> Were you watching that? >> You know, it's interesting. I didn't.

really It's interesting about like. certain music you can't hear. Like when. you're young, jazz doesn't make sense to. you. >> Yes. >> You can't hear it. And I think with Mary. and especially as I got older and I. started to watch Friends and Will &. Grace. Will & Grace has a sort of speed. to it. And um I think with Mary Tyler. Moore it it took me a beat because it. was a little bit like jazz. It was it. was kind of slow. Like I mean like. Chuckles Bites the Dust is one. punchline. Like like they're like we're. going to hold it's like edging for. comedy. [laughter].

They're like we're not giving this to. you until the end. >> not know that you produced a Mary Tyler. Moore documentary and you and I talked. about this because we were both working. on on like comedic legends. I did one. about Lucy and Desi. And. and. Mary Tyler Moore. is just this great example I think of. like what. what you talk about which is TV that. felt. like ahead of its time and also just. super cozy.

>> Yeah. >> What did you when you got to know her. and and and and her work like more it's. so well said it's like a sound you you. have to get used to like a music you. have to get used to. When did you start. to understand her music and what made. you want to do that project? >> Well, I think I didn't really understand. it until I was in college when I had to. sort of watch it cuz if you I studied. writing and producing in television at. Columbia College. I did all that. >> wanted to be a a TV writer at seven. >> Yes, I did. >> How did you know that WAS A JOB? >> [laughter].

>> YOU'RE LIKE LENA, WE THOUGHT PEOPLE WERE. JUST ON THE TV TALKING. >> Like there was like veterinarian and. astronaut. >> and fire person. Um I uh you know, I. think I just I would see names in the. credits and that's why when I see Susan. Fales Hill and Debbie Allen I knew their. names before I knew their faces. Um I knew that Lee before she was about. Lee Bowser and then of course I came to. know all these women, thank god. Uh but. I just saw that show and I said I want. to be a part of this. And also I was. aware that you know, my mother, my. grandmother, my aunt, the neighbors, we.

would all gather in my grandmother's. bedroom cuz that's where the TV was. >> Yeah. >> And we would just sit and watch TV and. it was it was very communal. And so. that's why I think I knew I wanted to be. a part of it. But with Mary, I didn't. get it until I was in college and I got. the box set on VHS and like watched the. the best episodes and things like that. And I just sort of was fascinated by her. as a human being as I read her memoir. after all. when I was in college, and that's what. really kind of sent me down a rabbit. hole. It was before you could just like. Google somebody. >> Totally. >> You had to read about them, and her.

memoir is so well written. It's I think. it may be out of print. They might have. brought it back, but anyway, After All. is a great memoir where she talks about. being an alcoholic, being the daughter. of an alcoholic. She talks about losing. her son to an accidental suicide, losing. her brother to cancer, losing her little. sister to a suicide. I mean, she the. woman that turned the world on with her. smile dealt with a lot of dark things in. her life. And that to me that that sort. of juxtaposition was really fascinating. And I was just fascinated about this. person. I think, you know, for what she. did for women in comedy, there was. something dainty about her,

>> Yeah. >> but not precious. >> Yes. >> And I definitely think you're you're one. of the descendants of Mary Tyler Moore. in terms of someone who. >> for saying that. She was really. important in my house. My My mom I, you. know, I had a young mom, and my mom used. to just like love and laugh love that. show and laugh at that show. And it is. really interesting when you're a kid. you're paying attention what your. parents are laughing at. >> Absolutely. >> And she Mary Tyler Moore was. reminded me of my mom cuz it was like. she was like. getting more, you know, what is it? Like.

getting more flies with honey than Like. she was sweet, but she got her way. And. that And her and Lou Grant like Nick. Offerman and I would talk a lot about. how Leslie Karon had a very similar kind. of like, you know, gruff and, you know, but Mary Mary was like And she was so. like. she was You could tell she was genuinely. funny, and that ensemble on that show. was so funny. >> Yes, and I think that speaks to why. you're such a descendant of hers because. she knows what it is to allow people to.

shine around her. To not make it all. about her, even though it's her show. But. >> she wants everybody to shine, >> Yeah. know, but I think. >> Carol Burnett was like that, too. Is. like that, too. >> yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. >> Like she always talks about wanting. people to to win and succeed. >> to give them the scene if you need to. >> I I love that you were producing that. and you and you mentioned about watching. it on VHS and I want to talk about VHS. because you used to work at Blockbuster. >> Yes, I did. Okay? [laughter]. >> And people There are going to be. >> don't know. Okay? >> There are going to be people listening. right now that don't understand.

>> make me [laughter] cry. Don't make me. cry. >> Don't understand how important. Blockbuster was. Well, first of all, what was Blockbuster? >> [laughter]. >> Because you were like it was like a. paradise. >> okay? >> It was a paradise. >> A library of film and TV. Uh it was everything. I used to go there. all the time. That's where you had to go. to watch old stuff, sometimes see new. stuff. This is the crazy thing. Now you. just sit on your couch and hit a button. Then you had to go you had to go hope. that in the new release wall that they. weren't all gone. You had to go up and. say, "Oh, did somebody return, you know. what I'm saying, uh.

Face/Off? Did somebody return Face/Off?". No. >> And I remember you go for you young. people listening, you would go it was a. big date. >> Get your popcorn, get your candy. >> Yeah, you'd buy it there. >> Yeah, you would. Yeah. >> And you'd go often with like friends or. date and you'd stand in front of a giant. wall of titles. >> Yeah. >> Just the sleeve. >> Yeah. >> And you'd bring the sleeve over to the. thing and like if it was there it. usually meant that they had it, but. sometimes they didn't and they were. like, "We're out.". >> time they didn't if it was a popular. movie. You coming in late on a Sunday. like, "Do y'all have uh. >> [laughter]. >> Do you have Jurassic Park?".

>> Jurassic Park? Do you have the latest? No, I don't. I got the old one. Okay, cool. >> You were and then and then you'd look. and you'd want to get Face/Off and you. wouldn't they wouldn't have it so you'd. be like, "What other genre movies and. stuff do you have?". >> Okay, what other do you have? [laughter]. Like, "Okay, cool. You got Powder?". Okay, what's happening? I don't know. Like, it's just like the most random. It's It's how I got my taste. I would. just like rent things on based on the. cover. I'm like, "I'll rent this. I'll. watch this.". >> have to deal with like the Blockbuster. guys who like the you know, there was. like. like the mini Quentin Tarantinos of the. world [laughter]. who came or who were like who were like. directors or want-to-be and they wanted.

to talk to you about film and mansplain. you. >> [laughter]. >> Not in Chicago. Like, okay, and they're. like, "And that makes sense." They were. like more so just like very obsessive. with whatever they were obsessed with, but it was interesting people coming in. there. You know, it's like it was. families. We also get moms saying like, "Can my son watch this?". >> [laughter]. >> And you're like, uh, wow, huh. Like, is. he into violence and sex? I don't know. I don't know if he should be watching. [laughter] Jungle Fever. Um, I don't know. But no, a lot of parents. really were concerned about what the the.

movie was and what was happening. And I. just was like, it depends on how you. want to raise your children, [laughter]. to be honest with you. I don't want to. be a part of this conversation. >> And you got Blockbuster. You were so. tight with Blockbuster. You were so good. at being a Blockbuster person. [laughter] You at Blockbuster and. Blockbuster employee. Wait, did you guys party? Did the. Blockbuster employees party a lot? >> The one in LA, we definitely got into. some trouble. Like, the one I. transferred. >> transferred? >> Well, I asked to be transferred. I mean, this is which is insane. That speaks to.

[laughter] who I am. I said, "Look, I. want to keep this job. Transfer me to. the one in LA.". >> [laughter]. >> And they did. >> did. >> And it's like they. >> You must have been an awesome employee. >> Oh, I was the best. I was like on top of. it. Come on. I'm like going through the. return bin, making sure it's empty. >> Yeah. >> You know, talking to people about. movies, making recommendations. Like, the LA one was popping. >> And then you get to LA because why do. you want to go to LA? Because you want. to be acting and writing and you want to. >> I went there because there's a semester. in LA program through Columbia College. in Chicago where they send like 12.

students to go to Los Angeles to be on a. a Hollywood lot. You're writing spec. scripts. People don't do that anymore. where you write a script of a show that. already exists to see if you can match. the voice. And the crazy thing is I. could never crack Parks and Rec, but I. did a 30 Rock spec and I did a Modern. Family spec. And I loved Parks and Rec, but I just could not I couldn't grab. that voice. I could I just sort of. couldn't do it. And and I did not for. lack of trying. But what you have to. kind of do is sit in your. apart your studio apartment and try to. like come up like, like what's the A. story, what's the B story, what's the. this, and I was able to kind of like.

play with those characters a little bit. more on 30 Rock, and I kind of figured. out how to write a joke. >> like speaking of rhythm, had like a. really percussive, very funny joke per. ratio kind. >> Yes. And I had a lot of fun with the Tracy. thing, you know what I'm saying? Like. [laughter] I think my my story for him. was like he he he promised that Obama. was going to be at his birthday party. >> [laughter]. >> But yeah, that got me out to LA, like. writing those spec scripts and stuff. like that, and. being on lots, and being an assistant, and and being an intern.

>> Well, then you assisted Gina. Prince-Bythewood, who is. >> she said there's no L in it, it's like. Python. I said when I was her assistant. for 2 years, I had to always help people. say her last name. It's the most intense. Okay, like it's like think about Python. and wood, and put a B in front of it, Bythewood. >> you were an assistant for Gina. Prince-Bythewood. >> go. >> Okay, Gina. I love your work. >> Come on. >> [laughter]. >> She's going to be so happy. >> Come on, Love & Basketball. The Secret. Life of Bees. Let's go. >> We had Regina Hall on. We had Viola. talking about Woman King.

>> on. When is Gina getting here? >> I would love to talk to her. >> she did Children of Blood and Bone. >> Oh. What what did you learn from her? Like what did you learn about being a. boss from her? >> so much. So much. >> Okay, so Gina is very cool, and I would. watch her navigate certain situations, and she would never raise her voice, she. would never lose her temper. >> Yeah. >> Um and I think also, it's so funny. thinking about Mary Tyler Moore at the. top of that documentary, this guy is. asking her this very offensive question, like can a woman have it all, can a. woman be married and have a child and. have a career? And the thing is is that.

Mary kind of just sits there in the cut. and just responds in a way that's so. eloquent and beautiful. Gina was a. version of that for me in terms of in. person, in real time, where people would. challenge her authority, or would ask. her if she really knew what she was. doing, and Gina would just never be like. frazzled by it. She would just sort of. be calm, respond, and show up, and let. the work speak for itself. And so, that's what I really learned from her is. like, don't lose your temper, let the. work speak for itself, and yeah, just.

don't ever lose your cool. >> Um, you talk about Aziz. >> Yes. >> You talk about getting the part in. Master of None, which is where most. people met you. Like, the world kind of. got to know you. >> Mhm. >> But, you've mentioned Allison Jones. >> Oh, well. >> So, Allison Jones, who is Allison Jones? People don't know. >> She's a iconic casting director, and. she's someone who's discovered many. talents, and I'm one of them. Um, I give Aziz credit, for sure, but. he, in a really cool way, when he was. casting the what it would used to be. called the Untitled Aziz Ansari Project,

he said, "I want to just meet with. people before I read with them." Um, and. he said, "I want to meet interesting. people." And and Allison had met with. me, you know, like, that year, earlier. that year, cuz she saw something I put. on the internet, which was like this. pilot presentation, which would. ultimately become Twenties, >> Yeah. >> which I was not in, because again, no. desire to be an actor. Uh, but. >> Why no desire? >> I think because and it's still my. biggest goal is to be a great television. writer. >> Mhm. >> That's that's really all I ever wanted. to be. Obviously, yeah, started from. when I was young. I never thought I.

wanted to be on the screen. I think I. always wanted to be the person writing. the words that they said. >> Yes. >> And that was just always what it was. And I admire actors a great deal. I love. a great TV star, a great movie star. I. just didn't want that pressure that came. with it. And and all that comes with. that. >> Yeah. >> Because it's a lot. >> Yeah. >> And um, and so, I. I when I wrote the pilot presentation. for Twenties, it was it was a. I was writing a a thinly veiled version. of my twenties and myself and what and.

my friends and all that. And so, it got. it got a little, you know, buzz, and. people were talking about it, and I got. a call that Allison Jones wanted to meet. with me. I didn't even know who she was. >> Mhm. >> I didn't. I was like, "Why does a. casting director want to meet with me? I'm I'm not casting anything.". >> Mhm. >> And when I went in the when I walked. into her office, of course, I walked by. the poster for Freaks and Geeks. I. walked by the poster for Veep. I walked. by the poster for Bridesmaids. And I'm. like, "Okay, this person [laughter]. she's clearly she's. she knows when the star walks into her. office." And so, I sat with her and we.

talked about television and what we like. to watch and and what I think what I. kind of understood in that moment is. that Allison kind of picked up on my. taste being very varied and sort of. well-rounded. We talked about Maude. We. talked about Ann Martin. And we talked. about all these different things and she. was like, "Okay." And then she asked me. had I have any desire to be an actor and. I said, "No.". And she said, "Okay, do you mind if I. bring you in for some things?" And I. said, "Sure.". And she did. She brought me in for an. episode of Veep, which I completely. failed cuz Julia Louis-Dreyfus was in. the room and reading with me and I was.

like, "Oh, no, I I can't. No, this is. not about to happen. I don't know what's. going [laughter] on.". >> Were you Were you nervous You were. nervous? >> I didn't know Julia was going to be in. there. >> Right. >> And so, I was like, "What?". >> Right. You walked in and then you were. like, "Oh, no.". >> I since became friends with Julia. I. love her. Her voice is the most adorable. thing. We're dog buddies. Grateful. She's amazing. Let's work together. Okay, bet. But but what was cool about. Allison Jones is that she's like, "Okay, I'm not worried about that. Bring you in. again for. the Comeback, season [clears throat] 2.". And I'm a person that had the the. Comeback season 1 on DVD, watched it.

with the director's commentary, listened. to Lisa and Michael talk about their. process and picking out all the chairs. So, I was studying. Okay? >> Uh-huh. >> That series and all that it was cuz I. knew when I was watching the Comeback. when I was in college in Chicago, still. living with my mom. I was like, "This is. uh something different and new and this. is crazy that she's coming from Friends. and then he's coming from Sex and the. City and they're doing this.". Understood. Got it. I I I got that at. that moment. >> depiction of of television writers IN. THAT SHOW. >> [laughter].

>> IT'S LIKE, HOW MUCH ARE YOU ARE Y'ALL. TALKING [ __ ] LIKE, what's going on? [laughter] But also for for I'm going to. say Valerie for a Lisa Kudrow to to also. give you a version of what an actress. can be, an aging actress and what that. can look like, and how that can feel, and the insecurity. It was crazy. So, she called me in. First, it was. interesting cuz she was like, "Do you. know what Do you know what The Comeback. is?" And I said, "I I Yeah, I'm. Yeah, I'm obsessed with it." And she was. like, "Okay, well, they're doing a. second season." And I said, "Okay, what?". >> [laughter]. >> And she was like, "Do you want to come. in? They're doing a press day. There's.

going to be like a bunch of reporters. I. think you'd be cool." So, she comes in. Luckily, Lisa and Norman Lear and. Michael Patrick King are in the room. Thank God. >> Literally, yeah. Lesson learned. Don't. be in the room. >> Don't Don't let them be in there. So, she's put me on tape. I said like a. line, and then I got the call that. Michael Michael was directing that. episode. And so, he picked me. Thank. God. And that was actually my TV debut, me being like one of the reporters for. her press conference or whatever. And. so, me being on that set. was it to me that was one of those. moments, one of those God moments. That. was a big moment for me. And I remember. I had a pitch for my line, of the way I.

could say it a little bit better. And. that's always [clears throat] a tricky. thing cuz I'm like, "Oh, don't be that. person. I got one line. I have a thought. on it.". >> [laughter]. >> But But Michael Patrick King, to his. credit, who I love, and he's been a. wonderful mentor of mine. He's also kind. of, you know, gotten on me a little bit, too. He thinks I'm being a little too. big for my britches. But he He He heard. it, and he said, "Yeah, that is better. That's better. That's better." And then, of course, later, um Allison was talking to Aziz, and she. He said, "Who are some interesting. people?" And she said, "Oh, well, I. think you should meet Lena Waithe." And. that's how I literally went to his home. Literally pulled up to his house, walked.

in, sat with him and Alan. >> Yeah, Alan Yang was a writer on Parks. and Rec. He created Master of None with Aziz. >> mean, those two. And I just sat with them. And I think I. was prepared for that moment cuz it was. weird because I was so used to doing. staffing meetings. >> Yeah. And So, what for people that don't. know, like a staffing meeting, when. you're a writer and you're trying to get. a job, you kind of do like a general. meeting. >> Yeah. You sit and talk about yourself. And you like, you know, you they've. often read a script of yours, whether it. be a spec or an original, and they talk. about that, talk about your life. And I. just sat in front of them, and I was not.

unlike this. I was very comfortable in. my skin. I had just fallen in love with. somebody. I was talking about all kind. of stuff. And I and they just were kind. of we talked like 30 minutes and three. of us and then that was it and then I. got a call that he wanted me to come. read with him. >> It's so interesting you're talking about. writers taking meetings cuz I think for. people that are listening like I don't. think enough people know that writing. for television a lot of it is about like. will you be a person that people just. want in the room? >> That's right. That's right. You got to. be chill. You got to be laid back. You.

got to be a team player. You got to know. when to be quiet. You got to know when. to speak up. You got to know the. hierarchy. You got to know the politics. of the room. >> Have you always known how to do that? Cuz you were so naturally good at it, Lena. >> I mean I'm I know how to how to play my. position. And I've been I've been I was. a staff writer twice before I sold my. own show. So when you're a staff writer, you really are there just a you're a. you're a helping hand, you know? And you. can't You also what I learned is that. it's not your job to fix the show. And a lot of people come in there going,

"Okay, I got it. I know [laughter] how. to get us that Emmy." You know what I'm. saying? It was never never that. Even. when I did get handed an episode to. write obviously in season 2 of Master of. None which ultimately became the. Thanksgiving episode. >> Which won the Emmy. >> I well I'm very grateful. First black. woman ever. I'm a stand-up writing comedy series. COME ON. AZIZ KNEW WHAT WAS UP. YOU [clears throat] KNOW, I DIDN'T. ACTUALLY want to write that episode. because I wanted to keep it separate. I. was A lot of people were like, "Oh yeah, you wrote on Master of None." I was. like, "Well, season 1 I didn't write on.

the show at all.". Now mind you, you know how it is when. you're in between takes and you're. talking and Aziz is like Aziz is like, "Oh, I'm putting that in. I'm throwing. that in." I'm like, "Okay, cool.". >> Yeah. >> But with season 2 and then the him and. Alan asked, "Well, how did you come. out?" And I told them the story. They. were like, "Okay, that's an episode. We. got to do that." And I was like, "Okay, cool. Y'all write it." Um I'm going to. do the Spielberg movie. And Aziz, I'll. never forget he said he said, "If you. don't co-write this, we're not doing the. episode." I just was feeling like. not overwhelmed, but I was about to go. do Ready Player One and I was going to. be in London and that was my first.

feature and I didn't want to mess that. up. I mean, come on. >> Come on. Where do you go from there? >> But he came to London to his credit and. we weekend when I was not working and we. sat in the hotel room, his hotel and. just like two days. >> Cranked it out. >> Knocked it out. >> When when you were. when you were like digging deep for that. story, your story, did you have any like. did you think about what you wanted to. keep for yourself and what you wanted to. give to the show? It's it's tricky,

right? Like. I mean it's such a beautiful episode and. it's so um. and it and it really spoke to so Angela. >> Oh my god. Angela Bassett? Are you. kidding me? >> Come on. Just talk about. >> What? I told her she was I was like she. was going to say no. I was like there's no way she comes on. the show. >> not met her. You didn't. >> I had not met her. Obviously obsessed. with her. You know, Aziz and I both are. obsessed with Jackson 5 American Dream. That's why we named the character. Catherine, like but I just was like. she's not going to do it, bro. I was. like you're nuts. Melina Matsoukas. directed the episode beautifully. Can. Whitley is an episode. What did I want.

to keep? I I think what I wanted to do. was be as vulnerable as I could on the. page. >> Yeah. >> And I think what was so interesting. about it, which I think surprised Alan. and Aziz, they thought that religion was. a big part of my story in terms of why. my family wasn't really uh that. embracing of my sexuality. But it really. it was more about what would the. neighbors think, not what what what. would God think. >> Right. >> And that was something that was unique. and one of my favorite moments in the. episode was uh not unlike in real life.

when I told my mom I was gay, she looked. around to see if anybody heard. Like I. we were in a diner. It's like these are. strangers. Like who who cares what these. other people think? And I think that. spoke so much to I don't know, like who. I am. It doesn't I don't think me being. queer makes me more noble, more special, more interesting. >> Mhm. >> And it's just a part of my humanity. >> Mhm. >> And I think that's what I'm really. trying to do in that scene is trying to. show my mother her own child's humanity. >> Yeah. Yeah, beautiful. I mean,

so beautifully done. So recognized for such like it was it. was recognized for such special work. Congratulations on winning that. I mean, beautiful speech to you. I mean, your. speech is so good. You're so cool and. relaxed, Lena. YOU'RE UP THERE LIKE. LIKE YOU JUST LIKE NO NERVES. >> YO, I mean, well look, it's it's you. never know you know how this goes. >> OKAY, BUT. >> [laughter]. >> LIKE YOU NEVER KNOW. AND SOME people it. would there were it's interesting cuz.

>> But you're relaxing. You relax people. >> Wow, I appreciate that. >> Because you feel relaxed. Is that true? Are you relaxed inside your head? >> I don't even mean Yeah, I know what you. mean. I think there was a lot of talk. He's I was up against two episodes of. Atlanta, by the way. One, okay? And that. was like. >> Those were tough years. Competitive. years. >> Okay, but I'll give it to Donald Glover. We were at the Chateau. I'll never forget it. THE NIGHT BEFORE. YOU KNOW all these parties. The night. before and Donald said to me with very.

confidence and the cool about him that. he has. He said, "You're going to take. the writing one. You're going to take. it." And I was like, "I don't know, man." I was like, "I don't know." He. said, "No, you got it." He's like, "You. got it." And. Sterling K. Brown was like, "You're. going to take it." So I'm getting this. weird People are like, "You got it. It's. yours. You got it." I'm going like, "Oh, I don't know.". >> And it's yours to lose now. >> I know it's yours to lose. I'm like, "Oh.". And then, you know, the history that. came with it. To be, you know, and then. you just had Mindy here. She's one of. the first woman of color to be nominated. in that category for outstanding writing. in a comedy series for episode of The. Office. And and Wanda Sykes won but for.

sketch comedy writing, which is for for. Chris Rock's show. And so when they told. me when the Academy said, "No, you're. the first African-American woman to ever. be nominated for an outstanding writing. in a comedy series for the Primetime. Emmy Award." I was like, "Oh, huh. Okay.". >> Mhm. >> And I think that just it it brought a. different level of weight to it. And I I. what I wanted to do I did think about. Halle Berry. winning that Oscar and I remember. watching and crying [snorts]. and it was I was I was in Chicago so it. was late as hell. It was like my mom had.

gone to bed and she said I hope she will. hope the black woman wins. I was like I know, we'll see and and I. remembered that speech and she was very. emotional and and rightfully so but I. loved how she sort of channeled the. women that had come before her, you. know, and I think what I wanted to do. was to honor Susan Fales-Hill, Debbie. Allen, Yvette Lee Bowser, Gina. Prince-Bythewood, all these women that. had been in television writers' rooms. that had influenced me and and also. wanted to be a moment for the queer. community as well for us to be seen and.

um and just for for black women that. want to write TV comedy. It's like. >> And and you know you you spoke about. this too which is like comedy which also. just you know, I think like any any. person that feels like they have to um. any person that feels like they're. representing a lot of history and a lot. of people. >> Yeah. >> that isn't always the easiest thing for. comedy. >> Right. >> [laughter]. >> Because comedy it's like there's nothing. worse than me like I'm going to write. something very important. >> Oh god, right. What?

>> Like you know, you're like I'm going to. write a classic sketch. >> [laughter]. >> That's for white women everywhere. >> Yeah, I'm going to change some minds. with my comedy is like. >> [laughter]. >> I'm glad that that episode meant so much. to so many people and and. >> must have people all the time coming up. and talking to you about it, right? >> Yes, yes. >> That's cool. Really nice. >> People you wouldn't expect. A lot of. straight white dudes say they love it. which is always fascinating to me. >> you have a lot of straight white dude. fans. >> I do interestingly enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cuz they love Master of None, they. love Ready Player One.

>> Yeah, exactly. What was it like working with Steven. Spielberg? >> Oh my god. >> We got to interview him for the Colman. Domingo episode. He gave Colman a and. ask. and. um. I I was saying to him like. you know, there's thanks for giving me. all of my memories. >> Yeah, thank you for giving me all of the. happy childhood memories. >> like all everything you've ever done is. in my head forever.

But what was he like to be What was it. like to be directed by him? >> He's like the best dad you could ever. ask for. Um and I always say he's a. giant that doesn't make you feel small. >> Mhm. >> That's that's who he is. He He's very. aware of his. of his bigness. He's aware of the. history that walks into the room when he. does. And he's really good at disarming. people and uh and making you not be. nervous about it. And he was not in the. room as well when I auditioned for Ready. Player One. Thank God. He hired me off. of a tape. Like you know, like I came in. obviously for um Ellen Lewis uh who's.

also another iconic uh casting director. And I could tell when I walked in the. room I was just very comfortable that. she saw something. >> Yeah. >> and then brought me in again and and I. think she had a conversation with Steven. and I think. >> [snorts]. >> that was a part of how I got in that. film. >> Yeah. >> But he [clears throat] just he took to. me and it's so funny there's a level of. trust that was there before even getting. on the set. And he one day he said, "Lena, I could tell you to like run off. this cliff and you would do it." I said, "Yep.". >> [laughter].

>> Yep. That's how much I trusted him and. you will you will you'll follow him till. the end of the earth because you know. that his heart is in the right place. You know that he wants to make something. classic, something iconic. >> feel like you like when there's like a. strong leader. >> I do actually. >> Yeah, and I I I sort of like when a. person is leading with their heart. >> Yeah. >> You know, and. um and and just sort of has everybody's. best interests, you know, in mind. >> Are you the kind of person if there's no. leader it'll be you? >> I you know, look, it depends [laughter]. on the It depends on the situation. It's.

like, do I need to get in here? Cuz I. don't want to feel like I have to. control everything. I don't want to be. that person. >> Why not? >> [laughter]. >> Cuz you're like uh you don't um. >> you seems like you know how to do it. >> I mean, somebody's got to do it. I mean, I I so the first of all, a lot of my. friends have been like, "Oh, really? You. don't want to control everything?". >> a like a like a like a trip. If you're. going on a trip with your friends, are. you the person that plans the trip? >> to sort of curate the experience more so. than control it. I would This is the. same thing. Okay, God, I'm in therapy. right now. Got [laughter] it. This is me. creating words.

>> You're like, "Linda, you're you're. controlling. You're curating." But see, I love that because I I to That's your. love language. >> Right. I want to make sure we have a. good time. >> want to talk about Shy for a second. Congratulations on it. Like you're now. it's done. >> Yeah, almost. Like it's a little. Whenever this airs it will be out. >> it will have been done. >> Wonderful. Perfect. >> And you are going to be like you will. have, you know, successfully wrapped. eight seasons of a show which never. happens. >> did Parks and Rec go? You can't even remember. >> a good question. Um.

>> that you don't know off top. >> Uh seven or eight. >> me everything I want to know. Is it. seven [laughter] or eight? This is why. we had to stop because people were like, "You could have went 10." You not. knowing is everything I want in life. Okay? I know Mary Tyler Moore went seven. seasons. The first. iteration of Second City went six. Uh Will and Grace was eight seasons. >> I think I think we did. >> This is what happens when you make. television. >> Also. >> You forget. >> This is called menopause, baby. >> Okay. >> [laughter]. >> I'm Perry. I'm Perry. >> Here we go, Perry.

>> I'm Perry. >> Hey, come on [screaming] over. >> Come on. So fun. >> Look, my sweats. Oh my god, it's so. great. >> My sweats, baby. >> Parks and Rec had seven seasons. >> Wow. So you're very Mary Tyler Moore, okay? I'm one more one more than you. >> And yet and you guys did eight and you. know, um people might not know. >> season season six was 16 episodes. >> I That that I I've heard you talk about. that where they were like, "We love it. more." And you're like, "This is so. great. Yeah.". >> Nightmare. >> Because people DON'T UNDERSTAND. >> OUT. IT FREAKS me out. I'm like, "I like.

10, baby. I like 10.". >> I mean, it is. >> Cable. What are we doing? >> It When you do We should to do 20. We we. had really uneven seasons like. we had six seasons six episodes the. first season and then I think it. >> 21. and then 24 and then 16 and then. >> at the time we were I think we were in. the 20s and to do 20 episodes of TV. as people will probably notice from. episode 14 [laughter]. 13 and 16 got a little goofy.

>> A little goofy. >> Cuz you you start an arc that ends like. you know at about episode 11 or 12 and. then you got to kind of start another. one that's going to take you to the end. of the season and in between you're like. let's have an episode where we're all. like you know. >> Just when did treat yourself happen. though? >> Great question. >> Just cuz like that feels like as an. audience member you wonder is that y'all. just being tired and landing on. something iconic or is [laughter] it.

like we're this is something we we we. think could actually really take? >> Season 4 episode 4. So we were a little. fresh. We were still a little fresh. >> Yeah, that that feels about right. >> Yeah. >> Cuz that that was something that just it. just stuck and it's still I still get. those gifts from people like they're. just like treat yourself. >> Come on, man. >> What? >> [laughter]. >> And we still like we will say it like we. will. >> Written by Alan Yang that episode.

>> Come on, Alan Yang. That's a good one. >> And um congratulations on a incredible. run. >> you so much. >> it it just not happen anymore. >> I know. >> And it is. >> last of the Mohicans. >> Yeah, it's so true and and. you know like. you also you. we didn't even really talk about it but. we know we both spent time in Chicago. You were born in Chicago. >> Yeah. >> It's such a love letter to that city and. it's also. like just like the city it's over the. past eight years the show and its.

relationship to the city has changed. Like. >> Oh, yeah. >> It it's it's. It. Do you have people from Chicago feel. like real ownership of that show? How do. they talk to you about the show when. they talk to you about it? >> they're mad that it's going away. They're like, "What? This is going to do. it forever." I'm like, "I don't know if. I can do that." [laughter]. I was like, "Well, this is one of the. stuff.". >> Yeah. >> But, they feel like these characters are. their family. >> Yeah. >> And uh they feel very connected to them.

I remember when Parks and Rec went when. I went uh you guys closed the curtains. and you guys were doing all the press. and and I remember watching all those. interviews and and watching all of you. cuz I was a person that watched the. entire series, it does feel like a part. of you is like not going to be there. anymore. And so and. >> going to miss the characters. >> You're going to miss the characters. I'm. going to miss the people, the writers, you know how that is. It's just It's a. family. It becomes a family even though. it's a could be dysfunctional sometimes. and it's work, but you realize how.

special that is to make something that. the world watches and that people care. about. >> to do a very quick speed round about. Chicago. Coldest you've ever been? >> Oh my god. Let me tell you something. Winters, as. you know, in Chicago are just. relentless. They're They They. They They test you. I think it's why I'm. so cool. >> I I I think you're right. I think that. there's like a Midwestern thing. First. of all, nobody ever talks about the. weather. Because it's like What's the point?

What's the point? >> like accept it. Deal with it. >> Yeah, but no one walks around saying. it's cold like. >> I'm waiting on a bus in Chicago, okay? And on the train. >> Yes. >> In the cold. weather walking from the train station. to my home. >> Yeah. >> Like you don't don't don't don't talk to. me. Like I don't I'm nothing scares me. Like I'm not bothered by you or your. attitude. Like I've had to walk in snow. to get to where I had to go on a train, on a bus, like waiting on a bus in the.

cold. >> Yes. >> Don't talk to me, man. Don't do it. >> Okay, best concert or best music you've. ever seen there? >> The best concert Oh, see here's the. deal, I got to do two. >> Okay. >> Prince and Whitney. >> Oh, my What? >> I know. But, here's the deal. Talk about musicality. Here's Here's the. deal a big influence my mom had on me. She did not like the fact that I. couldn't hear Prince when I was young. >> you talk about this. I love this. Say. that Say that. Say more. >> I just didn't get it. And she would play. Prince a lot. >> Well, you might have also been like Like.

nobody wants to like be into what their. mom is into, even if they have the. coolest mom [laughter] the coolest mom. Like If you're like, "This is really. great." Your kids is like they want to. be their own person. Maybe was that? >> I don't know. I don't know. And. she would play him a lot, which like. makes sense now if you think about it in. the car, in the house. And I just was. like a young person that just said, "I. don't What is this? What's happening?". And so now, fast forward, he's coming to. Chicago. And I'm in college, and she's. like, "You're coming.".

>> Mhm. >> And I said, "Why would I want to go to a. concert of somebody whose music I don't. like?" And she said, "Because you don't. understand, and you need to understand. And no child of mine is not going to be. a fan of Prince." I mean, this [snorts]. is really She's not joking. And her her. friend, Monique, they're in the front. seat, I'm in the back, upset. And we're. going I think it was like United Center. or something. I don't know. And we pull up and I go into this. concert, and I am like baptized in a way. by his music, and I hear it for the. first time.

>> Wow. >> live. And I'm like standing with my mom. and her friend, they're just having the. best time, and I'm just. just in awe. And And And And we have a I. still have a T-shirt. We got a T-shirt. from that concert. I still have it. And I walked out of there different. >> Mhm. >> And I went and bought all the Then you. can go to record store. I went and. bought all the records and was like. listening to everything. >> [laughter]. >> Went and. >> watched Purple Rain. I just really was. educated and it was one of those things.

where I was really grateful that she was. like, "You need to know what this is.". And then fast forward, I'm in LA and. he's got to do a whole like, you know, a sit at the Forum and for a while and I. would go to those concerts and like. listen and and I have a tattoo on the. back of my leg now. Like I have a Prince. tattoo on the back of my leg. And then. Whitney Houston, which I also have her. tattooed here on my arm, paparazzi photo. of her sticking her tongue out. Um I'm. just I've been a a Whitney girl since,

you know, I heard Greatest Love of All. and I'm not alone in that, you know, growing up in the '90s and being born in. the '80s. She was it. >> She was it. >> There was not There is no one else. There is nothing else and I just. remember finally like being in the same. space and she was and it and My Love Is. Your Love really was like a comeback. speaking of the comeback. >> Yeah. >> It was her sort of coming back and. saying like, "I'm not done yet. I'm not. done.". >> Yes. Yes. >> We We going to We I'm I'm still here and. I still have a voice and I still matter.

And I didn't even understand the. significance of that, you know, as a. young person, but I remember like, "Oh, Whitney coming out with new music? What? Oh man, it ain't it ain't a greatest. hits. It's just she coming out with some. new stuff." And and that was even really. important for me to see that for her to. say, "This is where I am now in my life. and I'm going to be rocking with Wyclef. and Missy Elliott and Rodney Jerkins and. Lauryn Hill." Um and these people are. who they are without me being who I am. And and I remember that album and those. videos and and me just feeling really. And I have a t-shirt from that one.

Which I Which I wear often and I It's. something about those those those shirts. and those When you go to concerts like. the grab grab a t-shirt. Do something. cuz you never know. >> So many concerts I like I regret like my. one of my I went to like New Edition was. one of my first concerts. >> Come on. That's That's love you. >> God, I would. >> You can come to the cookout. You're. coming. You're there. You're awesome. Come on. You're you're you're you're. you're with us. We love you. >> [laughter]. >> Come on. >> Um but. >> [laughter].

>> But man, I wish I had a t-shirt. >> I went to a Janet Jackson concert in. Chicago, the Rhythm Nation. I still have. that one. Like the the merch shirts, there's. something of it's a it's a piece of. history. The fact that I can still fit. my damn. >> That's a classic. Well, can I talk to. you about the way you dress for a second. cuz I. >> [laughter]. >> Do it. >> Because I love it. >> Thank you. >> And you have such good style. Honestly, a lot of times when I see you. at events, I'm a little jealous of how.

comfortable you look compared to. everybody else. >> of being a lesbian. >> There's so many perks. >> Yeah, so many perks. We don't have to. deal with men. Like I mean, that's the. main one. We really I'm LOOKING AT Y'ALL. >> [laughter]. [laughter]. >> I MEAN. >> OOH, THAT BELT EATING ON. >> [laughter]. >> GOT Y'ALL EXHAUSTED. >> IT'S SO TRUE. And like your style, I. love your style. And and and it's very.

you. It's really like. it's it's um all it's always changing. It's always interesting. It is like. always. right for the event that you're at. But. you are never like it's just like you as. a person, you're just never trying too. hard. >> Sure. >> And it's always cool. >> Thank you so much. >> And do you have a style that you pick. all this stuff yourself? >> Well, it's so funny cuz I do I Jason. Bolden, who is Cynthia's like he's. actually her style. He would joke and be. like, "Lena, I'm your stylist too. sometimes." But he they actually do it. real work. They like doing stuff and. having conversations. It It's so RuPaul.

always says that everybody's in drag. >> Mhm. >> And and I think for me, I want to feel. how on the outside I feel on the inside. And I just feel comfortable in in the. way that I dress. and I always want to. feel comfortable. >> Me too. >> I never want to feel like I'm trying to. be something I'm not or make someone. else feel comfortable. I don't want I. don't want someone else's comfort to to. to be a priority. >> When did you figure out your own style? When did you always have it?

>> what's so interesting because I'm doing. a clothing line right now called I know. called proximity, all right? With with. the designer, her name is Knox and she's. from New York and she. you know, I like to wear her cuz I just. want to wear designers that reflect who. I am. She's a queer black woman and. we're friends and. we were like and this is, you know, a. part of what what she's doing. Like she. made this for me and I wore this to a. premiere of him. I'm wearing it again. I. like repeating things as well. I'm just. letting folks know that like every. outfit doesn't have to be new or. different. Um but I think I sort of I.

used to I used to wear those t-shirts. where they would there was a whole time. people were wearing t-shirts with like a. whole paragraph. It was like a little. funny joke that they I was doing that. was a thing I was doing so much. I was. like, "Lord, help me." I'm so glad I. grew out of that. But then I got into. vintage like stuff like vintage shirts. and things like that that meant. something to me and I was like, "Okay, cool." And then I got, you know, make a. little bit of money. You're like, "Okay, cool. I get a little designer thing. here." There there was a thing where the. you wanted the designer brand there like. that so people know you're wearing. Valentino. Then you get older and you. realize I don't want nobody to know that. I got Valentino on. Just let it be, you.

know, as Rashida does quiet luxury. >> Yes. >> the the the the white t-shirt cost $500. >> listen, I'm always asking Rashida. I'm. like, "What Where does this. And she's like she's right now she's in. the biggest clothes I've ever seen. >> Okay. >> Everything is gigantic Japanese. >> Oh my god. >> Everything she she walks in. I'm like, "Is this what we're doing now?" It looks. incredible. Everything she's wearing is. incredible. >> She's so chic and just easy. Like I I. took a lot of stuff from her. I was. like, "Okay, the little plain little. jacket, little this, little that." I.

steal I steal a little bit with Rashida. I'm like, "Okay, Rashids.". >> [laughter]. >> But I think you I think style is not. unlike your voice. So you have to try. different things, find it over time. But, I do think my queerness does lend. itself to my style. And a little big. part of it is because I don't live under. the male gaze. I don't have this desire. to. to impress dudes. Or really even impress like women. I'm. just sort of I'm like, what looks good. to me? >> Well, this this is kind of a segue, which is you're you're you're the.

producer right now on a show that is. like all about people who are. celebrating the way in which they've. discovered who they are. And it is. [clears throat] a show called Gelical. Ball. >> This is true. >> And that is The Gelical Cats The Gelical. Ball. You're a producer on it. >> Yes, one of the co-producers. >> And talk about um. watching in real time people like. figuring out like how I want to how I. want to be in the world. Not only how do. I want to dress, but how I want to move, how I want to. be an artist, like um how did you get.

involved in working with that show? What. When did you first see it and why did. you want to be part of it? >> Well, thank god Cynthia saw it first. She was here in New York and um went to. see that Pack when it was off Broadway. and and she called and she said, you got. to see the show. You got to come down. You got to come to New York to see it. I'm like, okay. >> I bet people might be like a little. intimidated when Cynthia Erivo's in the. audience. That's a That would be I would. be like. >> they were very excited and ready to show. off their uh [laughter]. their skills when she was there. She. guest judged over there at Pack and so.

she called me and she was like, there. was there's something there's a level of. intensity in somebody's voice where. they're like, now you need to come. And. so I was like, okay, so I came, saw, and. was blown away, and said, okay, well, this should transfer to Broadway. I hope. and if it does, I said, I think we. should be producers on it. And it wasn't. the easiest thing I think cuz you know, there's a lot of producers on in. Broadway shows and they there's certain. requirements and things that people need. and we just said, trust us. Like we need. to be a part of this cuz we want to make. sure everybody knows about it and we. want to get out there and like wave the.

flag and be on this amazing podcast and. talk about it and all that that stuff. And so we were grateful to the lead. producers who they said, "Yeah, you guys. should come on and be a part of this.". And you know, speaking of Blockbuster, I. watched Paris is Burning that. documentary because it was on the shelf. and I saw it one day and I said, "I'm. going to watch this doc." And I never. stopped watching it and I kept. re-watching it again and again and. again. And I was seeing what I wanted to be. I. was seeing these people with these big. personalities and saying funny things. They're hilarious. We go back and watch. Paris is Burning there's just joke,

joke, joke. They're not even trying. They're just being hilarious. >> And I mean, that's that to me is like. real love language is when people like. tease each other. >> gosh. >> It's like it's. real shade. >> black version is throw shade. You know. what I'm saying? It's like we're. throwing shade, we're like being fierce, we're talking trash. And so I just loved. that how the what that Paris is Burning. really obviously helped to influence, you know, Kiki and Jameela and also. influenced Pose and things like that. But to see Junior LaBeija who was in the. the documentary and a lot of people in.

the documentary have since passed away. For him to be on that stage every night. and being able to feel that love and. receive it. I'm honored to to witness it. and I've seen it twice obviously on. Broadway, obviously once on off-Broadway. and it's something that just brings me. so much joy. >> Well, we got to talk to the directors. >> Oh, come on. >> Tony Award winning director. >> That's what they are now. >> They're the best. >> And um we got to talk well behind your. back with them. >> Oh my goodness. >> Because.

>> These two? The dynamic duo. >> [laughter]. >> First of all, I was very stressed. I. felt like they brought way too many. relatives to the Tonys. >> [laughter]. >> Well, come on. What do you. >> a lot I don't know if they had a lot of. people in those seats. And at one point. they were saying they had to talk to. everybody and I was like, "No, you. don't.". >> Look. >> It's your night. >> Yeah. >> Um. >> [laughter]. >> but they but they but they spoke of. course so beautifully about just what. you were saying which is that you guys, you know, you and Cynthia like used your. currency to get this show where it. needed to be and you saw something right.

away that that that meant so much to. them and that you know that is kind of. you in a nutshell Lena like you are you. are an artist who really loves other. artists you really support and like you. like what you like and you when you like. something you really want people to know. about it like you are. you know you're a mentor for so many. people and you're also just like never. forgetting that you're a fan and a. student at the same time it's awesome. and they love working with you and they.

had a couple of questions for you. >> Oh my goodness ebony and ivory. >> [laughter]. >> Okay and so Jaylen's question was who is. the person that you see on the dance. floor or what kind of person do you see. on the dance floor that gets you excited. that makes you think this is going to be. a good party. >> Oh like who do I if I see them on the. dance floor it's going to be a good time. >> what I mean who are you. looking for. might not even be a specific person but. a kind of person.

>> Wow. >> of party. >> You know what's interesting cuz I I love. I love to dance but I don't necessarily. need to be in the center. >> I know cuz you're cool so you just. >> [laughter]. >> I don't need to be in the center I know. I know. >> that's what cool people do [laughter]. they stand on the side they dance on the. side. >> I'm going to cut you know what I mean. doing the TWO STEP. OH. OH IT'S SO GOOD. >> MOVING LOOKING GOOD. I GET. >> I'm breaking a sweat. >> You mean you're not break dancing in the.

middle like the person that's like up in. a puppet going for it. >> [laughter]. >> But you know what though I [ __ ] with. those people though. >> Yeah yeah yeah yeah. >> Cuz you need that person. >> party pumpers. >> you need to be on say. >> I'll tell you what I can bring to a. party. >> What's that. >> the first one on the dance floor. >> Yeah you will cuz you're not you don't. have any qualms about it. >> somebody's got to start it and nobody. wants to and we've been to like industry. parties where it's like, there's a great. DJ, nobody's dancing. We got to start. this. Like, what are we going to talk to. each other? >> [laughter]. >> Like, enough of that. Let's go.

>> I'll sacrifice myself and be number one. With hopefully a friend. >> But, you know what? This is why you're. so cool. This is why I love reading. Bossypants. I love that section about. you when Tina says like when Amy got in. there, I was like, "Oh, things have. changed. Things are going to be. different around here." Such a great. passage where she talks about you coming. to SNL. And I think that's some. reflection of you at a party. Like, you're not afraid to. >> Well, I I I'll be embarrassed. I don't. care. >> Which is what makes you amazing. >> But, what who who do you like to see?

What type of person? >> What type of person? >> Or like, is there a friend that you're. like, "Okay, they're here. It's going to. be fun.". >> I like a person who can actually dance. Like, I like like I'm I'm not skilled. You're not taught. We're just going off. of the vibes. >> Who's a good dancer? >> Well, a lot of the cast from Cats. Like, we had an after-party and. I'm like, "Oh, yeah. I'm not I'm. [laughter] not even doing a two-step. over here. I'm like, I'm going to let. y'all do what you're doing." Um. Um Like, yeah. I think a lot of the drag.

queens like are are doing a different. kind of vibe cuz they cuz they know. choreography. >> Yes. >> That's the thing. Like, dancers who and. performers, I really I really love. watching them cuz cuz there's an art to. it. There's something to it. >> saying earlier that it's like magic. >> It is. >> It is. >> I like watching people dance. That's why. That's why I don't I I I'm like, I don't. want to get in the way. I don't I want. to just like catch a vibe, be a part of the groove, but I love. watching people that actually know how.

to dance how to dance cuz I could watch. them all night. >> Okay, and the last question today is. what do you cuz I know you love I you. you're like a culture vulture. You keep. up. >> Yeah. >> What right now are you watching, listening to? What are you into? Give me. some recs. >> Woo-wee! >> It could be a video that you can't stop. watching. It could be. And like let's let's let's let have it. be funny, okay? I can't watch anymore. I. know you were going to say. Exactly. I was about to say you were. going to go half man and baby reindeer.

Okay, I'm looking to laugh. Even though I think that's technically a. comedy. Are you a couple's therapy girl? Okay, couple's therapy. LET'S TALK ABOUT. COUPLE'S. >> [laughter]. [gasps]. >> OKAY. OKAY. OKAY, first of all, who do we WANT. TO TALK. >> [laughter]. >> WHAT? I'LL TAKE IT AWAY FROM THIS. SPECIFIC couple and just say in general, what is so good about couple's therapy?

I think is that you watch it and you're. like. I got these two. You think [laughter] you think you Like. you're always proven a little wrong. I am anyway. Like it's like I know what. this problem is. This person this. [laughter] person You think you're good. Like therapy. And then they start to. talk and you're like, "Oh, they're not. here for that. They're here for the. other thing." And also, I don't know. what I'm talking. You know, like I Like. we don't know anyone's [ __ ]. Exactly. [laughter].

Like I want. Exactly. Like I love being proven wrong. cuz I was like, "That guy is not right. for her and she's too whatever.". >> [laughter]. >> And then it's like, "No, you're not You're wrong. Like you're not. you don't know. And the way in which. you watch how communica- how different. everybody's communication styles. Whoa. Couple Everybody should be watching. couple's therapy. I agree. Absolutely right. And you learn so much.

about yourself. And those couples are awesome for. participating in it. Truly. Because what I also learned is. that we all have childhood traumas. Usually comes out around episode four. >> Uh-huh, yeah. And it's never what you. expect. >> Nope. >> Ever. [laughter]. Um and and you see how that is playing. out in their relationship. >> Yeah. >> And my hope is that I also, you know, I've I've been therapized. I'm in. therapy. I'm not saying who my therapist. are. Everybody relax. But I.

I I've learned a lot about myself in. terms of how I show up as an adult based. on how I was raised. I mean, it's so it. sounds very simple and easy to. understand, but you sometimes have to. really question your own behavior. Like, why did I do this? Why did I behave this. way? Why am I struggling with. boundaries? Like, what is that it? And. it's like, oh, because I didn't have No, my mom didn't have boundaries with me. when I was a kid. And so now I have to. learn that for myself as an adult. Or. my partner um has an abandonment wound.

And so when [clears throat] I go quiet. or I leave without saying goodbye, >> Right. >> it it triggers her in a way that I. wouldn't think it would. And so and and. that's why I think um learning in. therapy that vulnerability is a. strength. >> Yeah. >> And a lot of people want to protect. that. Or I don't want to tell you this. this hard thing. And the thing I learned. too is like, truth does no harm. >> Mhm. >> And that and so I've had to get really. honest with like people I love or or say.

like, hey, this is a part of me that I'm. ashamed of or I'm embarrassed by, but I. want to say it out loud and see where. you stand. Not to test you to see if. you'll stay, but rather so you know. exactly who I am and you can make an. informed decision about whether or not. you want to stay. >> It's that's so well said. And and. you Lena, you just said something that. like. I watch it a lot to just get scripting. for how to say things. >> Wow, that's good. >> Because it's like sometimes I like break. the window when there's a door right.

next to it that's open. Like, you want. to get something out, but the way you. say it. it's like it's it's good practice just. what you just said. Like, "Hey, I want. to share this thing with you and I want. to know how you feel about it." Like. just the gentle way into the. vulnerability is like just practice cuz. if you don't see it, you know, if you. don't see you don't have tools or. practice to figure out how to talk to. people about how you feel, then it just. can be like either shocking or like you. said like we withdraw or we like over.

It's It's humans are fascinating. >> They We really and I think that's why I. love the show so much. And it's so. interesting because, you know, I hear. sometimes single people particularly in. this current case of single women who. have a certain age and they're like, "I'm single and the only way I want a. relationship is if it brings joy to my. life or if it makes me happier." And. it's so funny cuz I always think. that is not how a relationship feels. >> [laughter]. >> Like that's not. how that goes. I was like, "If you. expecting somebody to come and bring.

just joy and happiness and fun and. romance, like no. It's like imagine. looking in a mirror all the time.". >> Yeah, a a real true relationship makes. you confront the stuff in yourself. >> run away from. >> Totally. We are fascinated with the. beginnings of things. We're fascinated. with the like young people, >> [laughter]. >> young love, people falling in love. We're just. so into it. And then everybody gets. there and then we never ask them another. question again. We never talk to people.

who've been married for 10 years and. like. going, "What's going on? Whatever.". We're just like interested in who people. are dating or when they break up or. whatever. But the middle, the in between. is like nobody even Nobody talks about. it. >> They don't. >> any questions about it. And it's the. same way with like I'm finding the same. way with like middle age. Like people. really fascinated with like you know, young people on the rise and they're. fascinated with like the gravitas of. being a the legend. And I'm like, "There's There's.

of middle here. And there's a lot of. things happening. >> That's true. You know, I mean like I'm. 42. And so I think. >> [laughter]. >> Little baby, little tiny baby. 42, so cute. >> Okay. >> [laughter]. >> No, no. No, 42? 42? >> 42 is interesting. Yes, it's. interesting. >> Millennials are old now. >> [laughter]. >> But it's weird. >> I feel it. I've like I'm a young elder. I'm a childless by choice. Um have a no desire to raise children.

Um but I think we're just saying in. terms of the the falling, the the. newness of something. I think that to me. is something. I I do get a little frustrated with. We. romanticize the meet-cute. >> Oh, yeah. >> And and the meet-cute is cool. It's. great. But I think what I'm learning so. much is the comf- being comfortable in. the boredom. >> Yes. >> Comfortable in the quiet. >> about this? What is contentment? Like. what is contentment? Like. >> Cuz familiarity breeds contempt. >> That's right. And ooh. We could talk.

about this forever. >> I know, we got to land plane. >> there's there's [laughter] nothing like. I mean, I'm sure you watch couples. therapy. We'll we'll we'll wrap it up by. saying couples therapy can kind of feel. like almost like a board game where. you're watching after many seasons and. then something like a a person will say. something and their partner will be like. And roll their eyes and you're like, and. there it is. >> [laughter]. >> Couples therapy is so good. >> It's just great. Like everybody should. watch that. That's my big thing, couples. therapy. And I'm trying to think if. there's like. >> Everybody just watches as much therapy. as they can. >> And like music, I'm trying to think I.

don't have my phone, but like please. listen to um Tems, T E M S, amazing. singer, phenomenal. She's great. >> That Lauryn Hill tribute. >> Phenomenal. >> She's just great. >> Lauryn had to get up there. Lauryn said, I can't let y'all do a tribute without. being being a part of it. >> I know. She. >> She said, let me get up here and do my. song. One album. But technically people. sleep on Unplugged. Go listen to Lauryn. Hill Unplugged back when MTV used to do. that. I love that album. that record. is. like scratchy and she's real. She done. been through some stuff. >> Yeah. It's like the It's the album post.

success. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Telling you about some [ __ ]. >> But God, it would have take I would have. I wish I could I wish there was like 10. more albums from her. >> Cuz see, here's the deal. We can't. demand labor. >> I know. >> [laughter]. >> We have to We got to get out of here. We. got to get out of here. I know. I'm. probably late for another hang that I. was supposed to have and they're like, "What were you doing? Hanging with Amy?". >> [laughter]. >> Classic. This is what we would do. >> Thank you for coming and doing this. This is so fun. Thank you so much, Lena Waithe. That was. so fun. I could have talked to you. forever. And we talked about so many.

great things. And so for this Polar. Plunge, I just want to remind everybody. how incredible Debbie Allen is. If you. haven't seen her work, Debbie Allen was. Well, she kind of broke into the scene. for us anyway in a in a show called Fame. where she plays this incredible dance. teacher. And Debbie herself is a. choreographer, an actress, and producer. And she was Lydia Grant who was telling. Leroy to find the soul within him to. learn how to dance. And she has She's. She did a million episodes of A. Different World. You can catch her.

talking to Lena Waithe on her podcast. Legacy Talk. They have a a incredible. conversation. And she's the sister of. Phylicia Rashad from The Cosby Show. I. mean, talent family up the wazoo. So, Debbie Allen, if you're listening, I love you. Uh thank you for being um so talented in. so many things. Thank you for listening. Thank you for doing the podcast, Lena. And thanks, everybody. And we'll see. you. Bye. You've been listening to Good Hang. The. executive producers for this show are.

Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss-Burman, and. me, Amy Poehler. [music] The show is. produced by The Ringer and Paper Kite. For The Ringer, production by Jack. Wilson, Kat Spelling, >> [music]. >> Kaya McMullen, and Aleia Zineris. For. Paper Kite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell, and Jenna Weiss-Burman. [music]. Original music by Amy Miles. >> I I I had a one who was. really good. hang.