Tupac Shakur murder trial continues in Las Vegas

Y we're on record in uh state versus. Davis C377407. Anything we need to address outside the. presence of the jury? >> Not from the state. No, you are. >> Okay, let's bring the jury in. >> Stand up for the jury.

The party's appeal to the presence of.

the jury. >> Yes, sir. >> You may be seated. All right, welcome back ladies and. gentlemen. I hope you had a restful. evening. We are still in the state's. case and chief. So, at this time, I'm. going to turn to Mr. Djakamo. Uh, who's. your next witness that we're going to be. calling? >> We're going to finish that recording and. then call a witness. >> Okay, sounds good. You may proceed.

Yeah, okay.

Okay, I'll go back and ask you a. question again. Uh, while you were there. in the parking structure and you heard. the commotion of people running would be. south on Fairfax or back in toward the. parking area. Uh, did you recognize anybody that um, my. concern is that may have been further. north on Fairfax on a sidewalk may have. seen the shooting or heard something? >> Anybody that you saw? >> I seen, right? Yeah.

>> Uh they was they were standing there. with me. Uh Kean Johnson, the football. player. >> Okay. >> And uh Ricky Bale, >> uh the uh. >> the singer. >> And they were with you or they were. >> they were standing there with me waiting. on his uh. >> Oh, they didn't run around the corner. They were with you. Yeah. But anybody as far as around the. corner, you didn't recognize anybody.

that you might know, singer or anything. Okay. That that was. >> Yeah, we saw K and some of the pictures. that were taking inside and Ricky. >> Yeah, I was on the pictures with him. I. had on the blue jump, >> you know. I now that I I see in person. because. you were like 6'2. guy. >> Yeah. Right. >> Thought you were bigger. >> Yeah, I did. I said, "Now I I'm looking at you." I I. think I do remember seeing those.

pictures. >> Yeah. >> Um. uh I don't know what you want to ask. tonight. I'll pull it out. Did you see. anybody with the stereotype, considered. a gang banger, dressed down, anything. like that in the party? >> I don't see any. >> Okay. What about outside in the park? either parking your car and coming to or. going back to your car park there.

>> Okay. >> I just wanted to verify some. things. Okay. the parking structure. You see some. people running. >> running towards. the you know coming in from. >> Fairfax.

>> So and you from there are you in your. car this time or are you outside then? >> I'm outside. >> Are you near your car? >> No. They was pulling up cars. Everybody's waiting. >> Okay. You had as you went for valet to. bring a car up. >> Correct. >> Right. >> Okay. When the car comes up. I mean, when was the first time you. heard that Biggie had been shot? Was it. there in the parking structure? >> In the parking structure. >> Did what? People were saying Biggie's.

been shot or any particular person tell. you. >> They were just running. The crowd was. there. The whole crowd. got shot. Big what? Okay. Then you were directed by the uh. as you're leaving. directed by a police officer to turn. right as you're coming out on your fair. >> He's directed every car.

Okay. >> Okay. You left. You're going down. What. did you go all the way through. Wilshshire Boulevard? >> No, I made a right. We made a right. time. Turn on Wilshire. Okay. So, you're uh northbound Fairfax. to you made a right turn. So, it would. be uh eastbound then or westbound.

Eastbound. >> Eastbound. Eastbound. Okay. That's. right. Eastbound. Eastbound. Wilshire. Okay. Then did you go all the way down. Wilshire or what? Was there another turn. that you made? >> Did you make a left or a right? >> Right. >> Right on. Then where did you go. to 10?

10. >> 10. Went to 10 freeway. Okay. And you went directly to the. marina to go eat. Yes. You window. >> wonder. >> and wonder Mike. Jerry's Deli. Okay. You were at Jerry's. Deli about what time were you there?

>> Yeah. Cop. about uh. What time did I get there? >> Yeah, >> there was I was on the uh. >> I'm sorry. >> Well, you and I were speaking with. defense attorneys. I think Mr. Fall, you. were there. >> probably. So,

>> and I were talking about homicide. investigation. >> I think you were there. >> Yeah, I think so. Uh, rags rags. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I you know I had I'm. trying I was just searching my mind. >> And uh your son uh went to elementary. school with my son when you lived in. Phillips Ranch. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. >> I remember seeing you there. >> That's true. >> You no longer live in Philips Ranch now. >> Yeah. >> That was years ago. That was 91 or. something. >> I still have a house there though.

>> Oh, you do? You rent it out? >> Yeah. I didn't sell it. have the members. leaving. >> Okay. Uh just want about what time do. you think you got to let's what time did. you leave the parking structure. approximately? Do you recall? >> Well, watching you said you arrived at the. party about 11 or 11:30. you were inside. the party for about an hour.

and then. >> okay so that would either make it uh 12. or 12:30. and uh. when you left the party so and driving. time from there to Jerry's deli. they were right around what 1. >> about 1:00 you would you say.

1:00 a.m. Okay. >> About I say about 1:30. >> Between 1:00 a.m. and 1:30. >> Okay. And how long were you at Jerry's. daily? No, it's been an hour. Okay. About 1 hour. So that would make it at. this point uh.

>> about 2:30. >> Okay. Well, that mean if you were at the. deli about 1 hour, it would. be 2:00 a.m. to 2:30. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Now you got to drive from the. marina where you you went. off in the same area. >> Okay. Then you dropped off. >> Wonder. >> Wonder Mike.

in Compton, right? >> Yeah. >> And then I'm assuming Wonder Mike and. Wind. Okay. >> Wind. in Compton. About what time uh would you estimate. that to be. if you left Jerry? >> I got home about 2:30. >> Okay. 230 [clears throat]. 230.

approx approximately 2. watch. times. Okay. And uh when you got home, was. there anybody up like your mom or. brother or sister or girlfriend or her. mom? >> Her mom came over the door for you. >> Okay. So all his mom opened the door.

>> Yeah. >> Was she up already or was she She was. >> You had to knock on the door. blue. >> Okay. >> You know that Michael Jordan jumps that. blue one. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. Uh, when she opened the door, did. did you talk with her? >> I mean, did she did you tell her. anything about the events that happened. like Biggie had been shot or anything? >> She's uh 73 years old, you know. >> Oh, so. directly? >> No, >> she was the only one up at that time. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Did you then would you go head. straight to your bedroom and go to bed?

>> Yeah. >> Did you talk with anybody. Upon entering the house, did you speak. to anybody either. in person or on the phone at all when. you when I talked to Paula? I told her. that I was speaking of. >> Okay. You and Paul slept in the same. room together. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you told Paul. said he got killed. I don't know whether. he got killed or not.

So, did you talk to anybody else besides. Paula? >> Just us. Us two. >> Okay. Wonder Mike and Weedle. >> Yeah. We was like, "Dang, I'm messed. up." You know? >> Okay. From the time uh you were at the. was about ready to leave the party to. the time you arrived home, the only. people you talked to were Wonder Mike,

Wendell, uh Paula's mom. You may not have said anything to. Paula's mom. Okay. Then you then you. talked to Paula. >> Was there anybody else that you talked. to? before we left. Uh John said he was. going to some other party and I'm going. home. >> Okay. Which party was that? >> I don't know. You know.

>> what party that was? >> Did Keshan ask you to go to that or. >> No, he just said he was going to the. party. >> Which party was that? Was this another. >> after after party? >> Yes, another after party. >> Okay. Do you know who who held that. party? Was it a star that had the party. or. >> I don't know. some mansion or something? >> At a mansion.

>> Yeah. And we're at. that just be inver. >> Okay. And you you had no idea where that. party was? >> No. >> I don't mean to rush, but you know, I do. have an appointment downtown at 6. >> Okay. >> Okay. If uh We want to have the key.

call you. >> Sure. >> And also. >> Yes, sir. >> Um. I have a. Keith's sister-in-law, her name is Gina. Davis. He said that police have been. going to her house, knocking her door, looking for her, and she has nothing to. do with this thing. And she expressed. >> Yes. >> She expressed concern about.

you know worth getting around. She's. one. So if if if I I told her I'm going. to let me ask you a question. >> Actually no. >> So So I said I was going to check with. you guys if you guys want to talk. over there. >> Yeah. You've been over windows. everywhere. >> Yeah. So Oh, Norwalk. >> Yeah, he's in Norwalk. >> Long Beach or Norwalk? >> I think that's Norwok. Have you Have you. talked to Detective Cooper? >> Yeah. He said, "Man,

>> we know you ain't did it, but we think. you can clear up the air or something.". I said, "Man, I can't get you know.". >> When was that? When did you speak? >> That was uh the day that you went over. our house. >> The day. >> you went in when you remember y. >> Oh, you tal you talked to. >> I called. Okay, that's right. >> Yeah. Now, the point with Gina Davis is. that I told her I'll check with you. guys. If Detective Cooper goes there. looking for her, she's not going to talk. to Detective Cooper. I want Cooper to.

know that if someone wants to talk to. her, just call me. Okay, >> I'll make her available. But if someone. goes there without, you know, being. class, she's not going to talk to. anyone. >> Okay. We have 15 people work on this. >> I can't I didn't see nothing or nothing. All I did was hurt. >> Okay. >> Real quick and we'll get Okay. This is. This north up here, this is the museum. right here. Let's say this is the. parking structure. This is Fairfax going.

north. This that street you said you. were going south on Fairfax, then you. pulled into the parking lot when you. first got there. >> Legal term. Yeah. >> Yeah. Right. >> Give me a ticket right now. Said that. he's not a traffic cop. So, >> okay. You turned in here. >> and you said was a valet park. >> Yeah. pull up in here and the man was waiting. right here with the violin. >> Right. Okay. So, you got out here then. you went out up to the party.

>> There's a lot of people here, >> right? >> Top of a path. Went on in here. >> Okay. Now, when you came out, you came. out the same way? >> Same way. >> Okay. Down this door. >> That was It was the stairs with the. rails, >> right? >> We were standing right here. >> Okay. When you came out, was uh Big E. down here already? >> Yeah. Big E was in front. They was. getting in their car. >> Okay. They were parked here in front. Okay. >> Suburbs, >> right? Okay. Most suburbs. And you know. which one Biggy got into? >> He got in trouble and uh the boy got in.

the bathroom. Then uh the man Freeman. was behind him too. >> Who was. the man? Uh the little guy. Uh. >> oh. Uh. >> you know. >> his little crew. Yeah. They. >> in a different car, right? >> Yeah. I know some of them dudes there. was holling at them. When they left out, me and Kan was standing over here by the. cars here waiting on the man to come. >> Everybody ran here. I didn't even hear.

no shots. I just see the crowd running. I was like, man. >> Okay. Had you received your car yet? >> No. >> Okay. So, you were going around. >> Did you see them leave the area? Piggy. and his entourage. You see him pull out and. >> not really. I just I just seen a lot of. cars just leaving. >> Okay. So you saw them there and you just. continued over my car. Yeah. >> Okay. And then approximately how long do. you think it was when you saw them take. off? Uh that you saw these people come.

wrestling back in there between the five. and 10 minutes. It was quick. >> And then. that's when it comes running around. here. Okay. Were you in your car or you. still waiting for? >> I'm still waiting. >> Okay. Uh, how long did it take them to. get your your car? I'm talking about somebody inside the. crowd. It took you to rest out. >> They pulled over Tan first, then they.

pulled over. >> Okay. >> We, you know, came together. >> Okay. So, you're inside here. And when. you leave, did you go out this way or. did you. >> out this way? Standing right here. This. where you were standing right here. >> Okay. >> You making sure they go right though. >> Okay. you know, cuz I knew it was an. illegal attorney. You turn it up. >> Okay. Uh, you said this individual was a. police officer. >> Yeah. He was he was tall, about 6'4, blonde hair, real tall. Yeah.

And he just waved the car. Now, he. weighed about 50 cars up out of here. [panting]. You know, >> did you see any policeman there uh in. the parking lot? say. as you were leaving the museum, had the. shooting already gone down or was it. until you actually got walked a little. ways inside the parking structure? >> Okay, I was I was coming down the. stairs. >> Okay.

>> Well, I was there seeing Big. >> Okay. >> Later, you know, they got on and uh I. was over here. We was talking about. football, you know. education. I'm talking that's right here. Wipe your. cards. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Then uh uh move the crowd around. >> How long were you stand uh standing. there when you exited that museum? How. long. uh time span. >> from the time you.

>> 10 minutes when you saw people rushing. in? >> Yeah, it was about 10 minutes. >> Okay. Did you see any policemen. uh anywhere around any LAPD uniform. officers? >> Any uniform officers when you came out. >> 27 times? >> All I've seen was uh that's that's what. I seen right here. >> And it was more they was pulling up. They was coming real, you know, coming.

in coming. A whole lot of cops was. coming. >> Okay. Uh people were rushing. Okay. 10. minutes between the time you exited and. uh. and the time that people were were. running into the parking structure. Then. how long from that time did it take you. to finally get into your car and start. pulling out? >> I'll say about 6 to 7 minutes. >> 6 to 10 minutes. >> About 6 to 10 minutes. Yeah.

>> Okay. And then how long did it take for. you to. exit the structure? Is that. >> It was like bumper, you know. >> Okay. So, you're finally in your car. >> Yeah. Then we leave. >> I mean, did you have to wait for a long. period of time because of. >> No, he was. >> he was pushing through pretty fast. He. >> was waving them through. Yeah. So after. the crowd started moving in, the policemen were there within what six.

minutes. >> He was running in he got killed. Lord. have mercy. You know, I had been in one of them before and uh. over there in Englewood and they made. everybody spend the night at that hotel, interviewed everybody that was there. >> Okay. This was at the farm. >> about that shooting you talking about. >> Yeah, with the shooting and all. You. know, that was kind of strange for him. to be waving people out. So, you know. what I'm saying?

>> Okay. >> Okay. I appreciate your time. >> Okay. Again, if you need to show it to. him because. I tell you when I first got word that. you were interested in talking to him, my advice was don't talk to the police. I told you I I won't hide it. I said. don't. But he insisted that he wants to. make this old talk to you. So he's doing. this on his own. >> He wants to talk. >> That's why we had no problem with with.

you. It was all I checked. out. Sean. Sean what you talking about? >> He said the FBI is all over me, man. I. don't want you you guys catch his mind. He stay away from you. >> Who said this? >> Sean. >> Oh yeah. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> Did you you know this little C? Did you. talk to him? >> Well, he that's where that's the person. that slid the invitations.

in. >> Okay. You got the invitation from Little. C? >> Yeah. Him and him and a manager. >> A manager. >> Him and a manager. >> So he a lot of braids. You seen him? >> Oh yeah. where the start, right? >> Said comb said FBI is all over me. >> Yes. >> That was. uh so with little C was just high and.

>> Yeah. He he he gave me a picture. >> This is before you went in. >> Before I went in and I went up there, they was drinking. Gave me a bottle. watch. Did you talk to little C inside? >> Huh? >> Did you talk to little C? What did you. guys talk about? >> I mean, you met before, right? >> He just said, "How you doing?" You know. what you. >> How long had you known Sean and Little C. before this event? >> Maybe a year. >> A year. Where did you.

>> years? He had gave a half the party at uh the. Soul Training Award. What year? >> That was 96. Um. Uh, one night did a guy get killed at. the Elray. What year was that? He got. beat up. I'm sorry. >> That was 94. >> That was the year. >> Okay. So, that's three years ago.

>> Yeah. Okay. I would make this phone. call. >> I appreciate it, Keith. I appreciate you cuz I'd like to talk to. you again and we'll call your attorney. and you have no problem. >> I got no problem. >> I just.

No call. Good. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Okay. >> You want another.

Friday, you know? Otherwise, I'll talk to you later. Yeah, I'm at the police department.

Throw You're taking.

All right. Who's your next witness? >> Thomas.

You do swear the testimony you're about. to give in this action shall be the. truth, the whole truth, and nothing but. the truth. So help me God. >> I do. >> You may be seated. >> May I please have you state and spell. your first and last name for the record? >> First name is Thomas. T H O M A S. Last. name is Kern K E R N. >> Thank you, sir. Whenever you're ready, Mr. Duck, you may proceed.

>> Thank you, sir. How are you currently. employed? >> I work for Customs and Border Protection. at the Chicago Laboratory as a lead. fingerprint examiner. >> Uh, I'm going to take you back 30 years. ago. >> Okay. >> 30 years ago, what were you doing for a. living? >> Uh, I had just started here as a crime. scene analyst. Uh, it was in my first. year. >> What does a crime scene analyst for the. Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department. do? Basically, it's a response to like. crime scenes to recover evidence that. were that was potentially left behind. during the incident. Things like. burglaries. We would go look for.

fingerprint evidence, maybe sometimes. broken glass, those sort of things, and. we would collect that from the scene and. bring it back to the lab for potential. use later. >> Did you have a field training officer in. on September 7th and or September 13th, I guess it is, of 1996? >> I did. >> And who was that? >> Uh, David the Master. That's L E M A S T. E R. >> Um, do crime scene analysts respond to. the coroner's office for autopsies to.

document the body and collect any. evidence that the doctor pulls out. during the course of an autopsy? >> Yes. >> And were you present uh at the autopsy. with Dave Lamaster for the autopsy of. Tupac Shakur? >> I was. May I switch? >> You may. I'm going start with state proposed. exhibits 44 to.

look like 56 there. Just want you to. flip through those.

So. I can't remember what my first number. was. 44 through 54. Are those all uh.

depictions of uh Mr. Shak well his body. bag as well as uh Mr. Shakur during the. course of the autopsy documenting both. tattoos and injuries to Mr. Shakur. >> Yes, sir. >> And then 50. five and 56. it is. two sides I'll say of what looks like a. bullet and a fragment that was removed. from his body at time of autopsy. Is.

that correct? >> That's correct. >> I'm going to show you what's been marked. as stage proposed exhibit number 128. From looking at that, >> does that appear to be an impound done. by Dave Lamaster from the autopsy of Mr. Shakur uh in September of 1996? >> It is. >> And flip it over here. Why don't you.

explain to ladies and gentlemen the jury. how how evidence is collected? Uh so. this is a typical evidence collection. bag and on the front there's information. that you would complete and fill out. that would be relevant to the. investigation you're working on. Uh if. and so I know that this is David's uh. paperwork. We are assigned a personnel. number when we start the job and David's. personnel number was 4243. That's his. first initial last initial and that's. about here in the center of this. information. Um when we collect the. evidence we're supposed to put a seal on. the reverse and the seal has to remain.

intact uh throughout the investigation. of that. So that also has David's. initial and personnel number and the. date that was collected. >> And so it appears that nobody's opened. this since David impounded it 30 years. ago. >> That's correct. >> Judge, I offer 44 through 56 and 128. >> Any objection? They will be admitted. >> Thank you. I pass the witness. >> Okay. Cross examination. Mr. Stamped. >> I have no cross. >> Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, any.

questions for this witness? Seeing none, thank you so much. Have a. good day. You are excused, Mr. >> See, who's your next witness? >> Dr. Lisa Gavin. >> Okay.

You do solemnly swear the testimony. you're about to give in this action. shall be the truth, the whole truth, and. nothing but the truth. So help me God. >> I do. >> You may be seated. >> May I please have you statements about. your first and last name for the record?

>> Good morning. I'm Dr. Dr. Lisa Gavin, L. I S A G- A V I N. >> Thank you, Dr. Gavin. Mr. Dejako, you. may proceed. >> Dr. How are you employed? >> I am a forensic pathologist medical. examiner here in Clark County. >> What does that mean you do for a living? >> We determine the uh sudden the cause of. death and the manner of death and sudden. unexpected deaths. And in order to hold. the position that you do with the. coroner's office, uh, do you have. certain education, training, and.

background? >> Yes. >> And explain that to ladies and. gentlemen, the jury. >> I went to medical school at the. University of Connecticut School of. Medicine. I did a pathology residency at. Hartford Hospital in Connecticut. I did. a surgical pathology fellowship at. Hartford Hospital in Connecticut. I did. a forensic pathology fellowship in the. office of the medical investigator in. New Mexico. and then I came here to. Clark County. I have a medical license. to practice here in the state of Nevada. and I'm board certified in anatomic.

pathology and forensic pathology. >> How long overall have you been a. forensic pathologist? >> This September it'll be about 17 years. practicing here. >> So I'm going to guess that 30 years ago. you were not at the autopsy of Tupac. Shakur. >> No, I was in medical school. Uh I was um. have you in the past had to come in and. testify to your opinions as to cause and. manner of death in cases where you. weren't the actual examiner at the.

table? >> Yes. >> Explain why that would happen. >> Uh we have people that have retired. We. have doctors that have died. Uh we have. doctors that have gone to other. locations in the country. So when you are asked to review, what is. it that you get to review in order to. form your opinions and conclusions? >> Most often it would be the investigation. report from our office. Uh it would be. the autopsy report from the forensic.

pathologist that did the case. It could. be photographs associated with the case. Could be medical records associated with. the case. uh could be any consultations. or the like associated with the case. >> In this particular case, did you have do. you know who the examiner was? >> Yes. >> Who was it? >> It was Dr. Jordan. >> And Mr. Dr. Jordan is no longer with us. Correct. >> Correct. Dr. Jordan had passed away. In addition to what the medical.

examiner's office had, did you also get. a copy uh of the photographs taken by. crime scene analysts during the course. of the autopsy? >> Yes. >> And did you utilize those as well to uh. uh to render your your opinions? >> Yes. I'm going to. start with uh what's been previously. admitted as states exhibit number 44.

Now, as long as you don't click that. mouse, there should be a nice little. arrow that comes up and you can point to. it. Um, what are we looking at in states. exhibit 44? Uh, in the background is a. green body bag. And the way that we uh. sealed the body bag to preserve the body. as evidence is we put this little blue. tag through the eyelets of the zippers.

as they come together to demonstrate. that the body was received, placed into. that sealed body bag and then received. in the office with that seal intact at. that time. Uh similarly we also attached. onto that area what will become the toe. tag the identifying marker for that. particular body that particular. individual. And if I zoom in on that, we're able to see that the name was.

Lasane Crooks aka Tupac Shakur. Date of. death 91396 at approximately 1600 or 4. p.m. >> That's correct. 45. >> What are we looking at, doctor? >> This is just opening up of the body bag. and then the one of the first photos.

that was taken at the time that the body. bag was opened uh demonstrating uh the. deedent and uh the condition that he was. received in and and the body bag. And. from reviewing the medical records uh. that were part of the coroner's office. uh file, uh did it appear that uh Mr. Shakur had survived his wounds for some. period of time? >> Yes. >> And a lot of what we see on these. photographs are evidence of medical.

intervention. >> That's correct. >> Um. 046. Is this a facial shot? I know there's a. ruler in the way, but this is a facial. shot of Mr. Shakur. >> Oh, that's correct. >> And then. we're not going to display all of his. tattoos, but he there [snorts] were. photographs taken. This is 47 to.

identify. uh his photo uh his various tattoos. >> Correct. So we can see on his. right stomach there that says thug. and then if we go to 48. on the other side it says uh life. Correct. >> Correct. >> Okay. So now I want to get to his. injuries. Um and I'm going to start with.

well I'll start with 49. What are we looking at here? >> This is the right side of the body up by. the chest area. You can see the right. axilla or armpit in in that region. And. then uh you could see some of the. sutures of what they call a thoracic. incision where they've cut into the side. of the chest. And then just below that,

this is an entrance gunshot wound. And then just below that thorottomy. chest, there appears to be a stitched up. area. I can move my mouse too. Right there. What What is that? >> Uh that's a sutured chest tube site. >> So that he had a tube there to help. drain some of what was going on in his. body. >> Correct. And in the previous one that. had all the medical intervention, you. could see from the left side, there was. a similar chest tube on that left side. From your review, were you able to.

determine sort of the path of this. particular bullet? >> Yes. >> And what was that? Uh. >> it entered here in the right lateral. aspect of the chest just below the. axilla the armpit and then went across. the right chest space went across the. right lung and then ended up coming to. rest uh in what we call the sternal. notch. The sternal notch is a location. if just between where your collar bones. uh kind of meet up towards the center of. your chest. So just beneath that, the. projectile was recovered.

>> The nature of that type of wound, um. what did it physically do to him? Uh his. ability to breathe and those types of. things. >> Um so the injury to the lung would have. collapsed the lung and also caused the. lung to bleed. And so it was documented. within the medical records that he had. about two liters of blood in his chest. cavity when they put in the chest tube. to try to save him. And uh similarly.

they ended up removing that lung to try. to save him and kind of clamp off the. bleeding uh and then already had already. had multiple episodes of not becoming. responsive. So he didn't wasn't able to. breathe. He was bleeding out in that. area from that injury. Additionally, I guess I should ask this. when I was back on some of the uh prior. pictures. Um, we're going to see a lot. of pictures or we have seen some.

pictures of Mr. Shakur while he's alive. We're going to see some video of him. alive. He certainly looks a lot skinnier. in those pictures than he does in these. pictures. Is there a reason why he's so. bloated in these photographs? uh after. they've been on uh the life support. system, you end up not being able to. circulate the fluid in the body that. they're trying to give you. And so it. kind of um kind of seeps into the. tissues and it makes your tissues look. kind of bloated and uh kind of uh. literally bloated.

I'm going to move on to his next wound. States exhibit number 51. >> What are we looking at here? This is the. right lateral aspect of his body. So his. right flank and his lateral aspect of. his right thigh. >> and the. >> and then his uh back back side of his. right hand is also within this uh. picture. >> The ruler though is identifying what. >> the ruler is is around the uh right.

lateral aspect of his uh thigh. So the. right thigh on the lateral side. >> and what is that? And that's an entrance. gunshot wound. >> And can you tell me the path that that. bullet took? >> Yes. >> And go ahead. >> Uh that bullet entered in the lateral. aspect of the right thigh and then went. upwards into the abdomen and damaged his. intestines. Uh they ended up uh. operating there and removed a portion of.

his intestines. And then during that. surgery, they recovered another. projectile. states exhibit number. 52. And you can see it in 51, but now. the ruler is on Oops. Try that again. Now the ruler is on that lower mark. Describe that for us. This is like the. lateral aspect of his body or his uh.

right flank. And this wound uh does not. penetrate into the body, but it kind of. causes this deeper abrasion in this. area. So, this could be from like a. spent projectile that might have hit. something else and then hit his body. So, it lost its momentum to be able to. penetrate into his body further. So, it. kind of hit this area and created this. wound on the side of his body. >> Were there evidence within the medical. records that m Mr. Shakur had received.

bullet wounds sometime prior to the. injuries that caused his death. >> Uh he had some scars in other areas of. his body that were suggestive of that. >> States exhibit number 53. >> What are we looking at? Uh this is the. back of his right hand and on the ring. finger he has an entrance gunshot wound.

This uh path goes through the uh hand. and goes through that finger and then. fractures that bone right by the ring. finger area. >> And then 54. 054. What are we looking at? This is the exit. aspect of that wound that we saw the. entrance to on the back of the hand and. it kind of exits out the underside and. partly in the webbing between those. fingers. >> Now you mentioned that during the.

surgery. uh UMC would have recovered one bullet. and then autopsy another bullet was. recovered. >> That's correct. Um, and so as it relates to the autopsy, showing you safe exhibit number 55. What are we looking at here? >> This is the projectile that was. recovered during the autopsy. This was. the one underneath the sternal notch to. which I referred earlier.

>> And just so the jury understands these. when they hit the back room, that's the same bullet. It's just taken. from the opposite side. Yes, we take uh. multiple angles of those projectiles, >> photos of multiple angles. Hang. >> on. Just for the record with exhibit. numbers, >> uh Mr. D. >> 56. >> Okay. >> Um. now Dr. in addition to not only the photographs,

were there other records identifying Mr. Shakur within the coroner's office. records? Uh we have both uh some medical. records and some photographs as well as. the autopsy report, the investigation. report and uh the toxicology report as. well. >> Uh did you also have an affidavit from. Mr. Shakur's mother indicating that's. her son and he's dead? >> Yes. >> And were there also postmortem. fingerprints taken to confirm that.

information? >> Yes. After reviewing all of those records, do. you have an opinion as to the cause of. death of Mr. Shakur? >> Yes. >> And what is that? >> He died of gunshot wounds of chest and. abdomen. >> And uh do you have an opinion as to the. manner of death? >> Yes. >> And what is that? >> Homicide. >> When a medical examiner uses the term. homicide, [clears throat] what does that. mean? >> Uh the simplest form is death at the. hands of another.

Thank you. >> I passed the witness. >> Pass examination. Mr. S. >> Yes, sure. Thank you, Dr. G. Good. morning. >> Good morning. >> How are you doing? >> Good. How are you? >> Uh, good. Thank you. U, just a couple. questions. Your testimony here today. revolves really around your view of the. record that was laid out 30 years ago. >> Yes, that's correct. >> And so, fair to say, of course, that. keeping records would be very important. in your line of work. >> Yes. in the event that in the future.

something that you do while you're on. vacation somewhere in the Bahamas could. be testified to by another doctor. >> That's correct. >> Now, with regards to the records that. you saw here, uh, and is it uh Dr. um. >> Jordan? >> Jordan, uh, was there anything missing. in your review of those records in terms. of recordeping or anything like that? >> Uh, no, but we only took a few photos at. the time of autopsy. At that time they. used polaroids or they used film and. cameras and so we had few photos of the.

body itself and so consequently the. crime scene analyst photos were uh. helpful for being able to come to. determination in addition to the. reports. >> Right. So you're. the way we're able to explain it to the. jury today is that you reviewed the. record as well as any photographs were. taken at the at the time of the autopsy. >> That's correct. >> Okay. And and and once again going back again. to my original question though is that. was there anything at all in in review.

of Dr. Jordan's records or keeping that. would have indicated to you something. you that should have been done. differently with regard to Dr. Jordan's. work? >> No. Nothing that I could see in my. review. >> Okay. And fair enough to say though that. you're not really there to critique his. work as much as it is to relay what you. read in the record to a jury like the. people that we have here today. >> But that's fair. Um, and once again, uh, a critical review of someone's record is. a little bit different compared to just. reading what was was done and then.

relaying that to a jury. >> Yes. >> Okay. What is the difference? >> Uh, I think the scrutiny that you can. utilize in those kind of details uh may. be something that becomes relevant for a. particular case. >> Right? So for instance, if there was. some issue uh some dispute over whether. or not he um was given adequate medical. treatment, that would be something for. another day, for another topic. uh and another type of review, right? >> That would be for somebody that actually. does treatment of bodies. I'm a forensic.

pathologist, so I'm a medical examiner, so I review people after they've died. So that would be treatment related to. whomever does that type of treatment. Now, would you have been able to do this. type of review if Dr. Jordan had not. kept an adequate record of his efforts? >> It depends on what you have available. for review. >> Say for instance, there's there's no. record at all. He doesn't do a record. He does some work, but you don't have. anything other than maybe the pictures. in this case. Would that be enough of a.

review for you? uh rec photographs can. be very helpful in terms of determining. what happened to [snorts] the body and. then in terms of where the locations of. injuries are based on my knowledge of. anatomy in the body I can definitely. generate opinions based on that. >> Sure. But with regards to say his work. in general outside of the fact that you. could point out location of where. there's entry and exit wounds for. instance from a bullet outside of that. would you be able to tell this jury. exactly what Dr. um Jordan had done with.

regard to his autopsy. >> uh what he did for his exact procedures. No. >> Okay. And in the event that you don't. even have that, say for instance, you're. you're coming in here today and the. question is, well, did the Tupac Shakur. die of bullet wounds? Would that be. something that you could just tell a. jury like this without even looking at a. record or photographs? >> We would need some kind of record in. order for me to be able to generate an. opinion or some kind of photographs for. me to be able to generate an opinion.

And fair to say then once again that in. your line of work recordkeeping, record. writing is critical to maintain the. integrity of what you do as a uh as a. coroner. >> Yes. >> No further question. Thank you. >> Any redirect? Mr. J, >> ma'am, Mr. Stamp suggested I just want. to make it clear. You're not. regurgitating Dr. Jordan's uh opinions. You've formulated your own opinions as. the cause and manner of death. >> That is correct.

>> Thank you. That's. >> one final question based on and fair to. say though, in order for you to do that, you have to rely on Dr. Jordan's. documentation of what he did. >> Uh I relied on his documentation as well. as the other documentation that I talked. about, which was medical records as well. as uh photographs. >> Thank you. No further questions. >> Ladies and gentlemen, the jury, any. questions for this witness? We have one more that we're waiting for.

And the party's approaching.

All. right, Dr. Gavin, we have a few. questions from our jurors. Were there. any wounds to the head that you or Dr.

Jordan observed or noted? >> No, there were not. >> And then were all the bullets found of. the same caliber? Uh, I don't know what. the caliber of the other bullet was, the. one recovered at surgery. >> Okay. State any followup based on those. questions? >> Do you even know what the caliber of the. bullet was that was covered at autopsy? >> Uh, no. I don't know this caliber. >> Do is that something that is not in your. realm of determination? >> That's correct. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Sam. >> Dr. I'm assuming you're probably going.

to say I don't know, but are are you. aware that if any uh Metropolitan Police. officer or expert came forward to take a. look at those fragments that we're. looking at now or any other fragments. that were recovered from the body? >> No, I don't know. >> You don't know that? >> I don't know whether or not somebody did. that. >> All right. Thank you. No further. questions. >> Okay. Thank you for being with us, Dr. Gavin. You are excused. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Next witness. >> Just before we call the next witness, I. have my hands before number 59 which is.

certified copy of Marian SH Knight's uh. medical records from UMC that night. >> Any objection to the admission of those. records, Mr. Sam? >> No. >> All right. Those will be admitted. >> I apologize. I don't know his name, but. he is the custodian of records for MGM. surveillance. >> Okay.

Don't worry, that's where I put those. >> You do songs where the testimony you're. about to give in this section shall be. the truth, the whole truth, and nothing. but the truth. So, help me God. >> I do. >> You may be seated. May I please have you state and spell. your first and last name for the record? >> Michael Ingram. M I C H A L I N G R A M.

>> Thank you, Mr. Ingram. Mr. Jackman, whenever you're ready, >> sir. How are you? >> I work as an investigator for MGM. Resorts. >> What area at MGM Resorts do you have a. certain job responsibility? Um, I have. responsibilities over uh surveillance. and security surveillance and. investigations. >> Were you requested to come here to.

authenticate some video that was. collected well back in 1996 from the. MGM? >> Yes, I was. >> And have you had a chance to see any of. that surveillance? >> Yes, I have. >> Okay. Did MGM keep a copy as well? >> Yes, they have. >> Okay. So, you reviewed that? >> Yes. Judge I have my hand stage. proposing exhibit number 115 which is. that video I offer. >> Any objection? >> No objection. >> Okay, that'll be admitted.

>> So I have three different camera views. more than three different files I'll. call it that uh um we're going to talk. about. But back in 1996, can you. describe the type of surveillance system. we're looking at? Like how is it what. medium was it originally recorded on. >> at that time? It was recorded on VHS. >> And did MGM reuse tapes every so often? >> Yes. >> And so, uh, when you reuse tape, did you.

lose quality each time you kind of. reused it over and over again? >> Yes, the quality deteriorated. >> So, um, unlike today that's digital, um, some of these views that we're going to. watch, it's going to be pretty hard to. facially identify anybody. Is that. correct? >> That's correct. >> So, I want to start with actually. [clears throat].

this mark next to. I need to switch it over. >> I know. I just remember if it's the top. or the bottom. >> There's two blues. Oh, this one. >> She has to switch it over. There you go.

>> It doesn't work that way. All. right, I'm going to show you the stage. proposed exhibit number 144. Do you recognize what that is? >> Yes, that's the MGM Grand. >> Is that currently the way the MGM Grand. looks? >> The general layout of the the casino or. the the hotel? Yes, it's it's the names. have changed and stuff, but okay. The.

the property is the same. So, we don't. know if this is from 1996 or if it's. from 2002, 2010. When in the last 30 years, but generally. the layout's been the same. >> Correct. >> Put this up. Ladies and gentlemen, the jury, if I. could. >> Oh, I'll move to 144. >> Before we move to Nick, can I just ask a. couple more questions at this point with. regards to this? >> You'd like to order on this issue? You. may. Um sir, with regards to the.

photograph that's been marked as. proposed ex uh state exhibit 144, um. can you tell me if you can read the. locations that are on that particular. map? >> I can read. most of them and. there's one that's a little fuzzy to me. >> Sure. In terms of your review of the. surveillance video from EMG, I'm fair to.

say that what we're about to see would. indicate where the camera location was, including the name of the area that. would correlate with what you have up. there on the map. >> As a general rule, yes. >> Okay. Thank you. We'll have no further. questions. >> Any objection then to the admission of. it? It'll be admitted. State, you may. proceed. >> Thank you. actually two areas on this I want to. talk to you about before we show the. video.

maybe maybe more than that. Um generally. speaking uh events like the Tyson Seldon. fight where where would that have. occurred at? >> Uh the MGM Grand Garden which is located. at the top of the screen. >> up here. Okay. Uh we have an elevator. view uh that uh we're going to see. Where is that located on this? >> Um there's in the middle of the screen.

there's three small boxes. Um. those right here. >> Yes, those are the elevator core for the. MGM grind. And then if there's a camera. that's going to say food court, um that's kind of walking that's looking. down a long hallway. Which hallway are. we looking at? >> Uh the white um white box. Yeah. You're. going to be following that basically to.

the Grand Garden Arena. >> So when you come out of this box, you. can either come down here or across the. casino essentially. >> Correct. So now I'm going to start with if we can. go back to me.

I'll pause it here for just a second. This says food court prominade. So, for. you to hold up for the jury, do you know. anywhere where we are along this white. corridor or could it be anywhere on that. white corridor? >> Specifically, I couldn't tell you. exactly where along that uh that. corridor you are, but you're along that. corridor. >> Okay.

And. I'm gonna stop it. Oh, maybe a little. further. Um, this person right here, we're going. to see in some of our other videos. wearing a Dan Marino Miami Dolphins. jersey. Um, you probably know that, but for ladies. and gentlemen, the jury, that's the. person that we're trying to follow. Is.

Is that accurate or do you know? >> I do not know. Okay. Now we have another. camera view of this long hallway. from this. Can you tell generally where.

in that hallway it is or did once again. we're just somewhere on that white. hallway. somewhere along that way. The. hallway. and Oh, he just flashed. that. So, let me let me stop it here. On these. VHS tapes, cameras would flash between. different hallways.

that technology was in effect during. that time frame called multiplex back in. those days. >> Correct. >> So sometimes we jump from camera view to. camera [clears throat] view trying to. capture what we're trying to capture. >> Correct. We can see the 13 on this jersey right. here with the gentleman walking behind. him.

Now I'm going to take you to 115B. [clears throat]. I don't know why it did that. All right, we're going to use a. different program so we don't watch it.

sideways. And I'll turn my volume off because. there's no volume. Now, this is that. elevator core that we saw. We switch over to me for a second. over. You mean the doc cam? >> Yeah. >> So, as opposed to those other views that. were somewhere in here.

>> Mhm. Now, we're down in the middle of. these four and there's a tree in the. middle of these four. Correct. Is that. tree still there? >> No. And unlike the other camera, this one is. a movable camera that goes back and. forth. >> Correct. >> Go back to you. >> Yeah.

So, this one starts at. 2043 or so, and I'm going to jump. forward to about 2047. This is just people walking through that. elevator area. Correct. Correct.

Close. enough. We'll start at 20 4633.

>> [cough and clears throat].

[cough]. [clears throat].

>> Stop it just here for a second to orient. everybody. So the camera is it being. operated manually by a cameraman so he. can stop it on something that he's. looking at? >> Uh he can stop it at a location but that. movement that you saw was just the. camera in rotation just scanning the. area. But if it now stops and focuses on. someone, there's someone in the control. room that is able to stop and go, "Hey, something's going on." And. >> yes. >> Okay.

[cough]. >> [clears throat].

>> Tell us right now.

The gentleman in white shirts, are they. security guards? And the gentleman in. tan shirts, Metro Police. Yes, sir.

Pause. it for a second. Once again, it appears that the victim. of the beating was wearing that 13.

Marino shirt. >> Yes, sir.

is about 205. or so. And then our final view, this may seem somewhat obvious, but I'm.

going to give you this when you watch. the cameras. after I'm going to ask you generally. where those people that we see um. leaving the area of the elevator after. the fight where they go. This is. 115C. So is that the main casino floor outside. the elevators? >> Correct.

>> [snorts].

>> that they appear to be exiting. Can you. generally tell me where that leads out. to. >> the. if. the lion entrance? >> Is that anywhere near the ballet?

That's the I'm sorry I was. was confused. out to the. hotel registration area and then out to. the port of cashier. >> Do you know whether or not back in6. there was a valet there or not? >> Yeah. What? No, I don't I don't know if. there was an exact valet or what it was. called at the time.

>> [snorts]. >> Thank you, sir. Judge, I pass the. witness. >> Mr. S, cross examination. >> Thank you, honor. Sir, you are an investigator with the.

MGM, >> correct? >> MGM Resorts, the whole the whole. company. >> So, it would be um MGM as well as the. other properties that are on the ship, >> correct? >> Okay. And I'm assuming you're more than. just yourself doing the investigations. >> Correct. Okay. May I have that document? May May. >> Yeah. I'm going to publish this again for the. jury. States exhibit number 44. All right. Um, a couple questions. As the investigator.

or a investigator, how long have you. been doing that line of work for? >> 14 years. >> Did you have any previous law. enforcement experience before you became. an investigator for MGM? >> No. >> Uh, and then with regards to your. training as an investigator for the MGM, are you trained in how to do an. investigation? >> Yes. Okay. And that would be something. that would be not necessarily law. enforcement, but it would just be to. protect the properties that NGN owns.

>> Yes, sir. Okay. So, with regards to the. training that you have, is one of the. things that you do in terms of training. uh learning how to write proper reports? >> Yes. Okay. Can you tell us why that's. important? uh. documentation for future um for future. reference. Uh you're you are. you're timestamping an event.

in that moment that you are. investigating it. >> And fair to say that that that with. regards to report writing, it helps you. later refresh your recollection if. you're ever unlucky enough to be sitting. in this chair facing towards these. people, right? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Uh in this case, you were asked to. uh retrieve this video that was um uh. what you've just what we all have seen. right now, right? >> Yes, sir. >> Uh did you have to write a report for. that? >> No.

>> No. You had shared with us earlier that. you had reviewed the videos. Um anything. about the review of the videos that. would have required you to put it into a. report? >> No. >> Okay. And you were going to I I I must. have cut you off. You were going to say. something. than I did. You. >> I. >> want to finish. >> I did not like you. You said that I. provided this video. >> Yes. >> I did not provide this video. >> Okay. So, and once again, we want to. make sure that we're accurate, right? So, what was what is your role in this.

whole thing and what what you did here? >> The the video that we all reviewed um to. to be able to say that it's it's MGM. Grand's video. that's in GM Grand's. location and whatever you guys want to. talk about inside of the video. >> Right. So, in terms of you verifying it, was it just you looking at the video and. saying, "Yes, that's the casino floor of. the MGM.". >> Yes. >> Uh in terms of the um uh the date and.

time, for instance, you're just relying. on what's datestamped and time on the. actual video that you watched, right? >> Yes. I mean, you don't have any other. way of verifying any of the time and. date in this case outside of what's. timestamped on the video. Correct. >> Correct. >> Okay. And and that's not a trick. question. I just want to make sure it's. clear. Yeah, you're good. Um, but in. terms of the um the the case itself, uh, is there was there an internal number. that was assigned by the MGM property. specifically as to this event in.

September of uh, 200 or 1996? Um, I. I don't know that answer. >> So, in in when you were asked to review. the videos, do you know if there were. any reports that were written by MGM. security or MGM investigators like. yourself on September 7th, 1996 with. regard to this event?

>> I I don't know that answer. Now in in. addition to that um. [sighs] you were asked to look through. the video. Did you were you ever asked. to locate anyone based upon the video. that you saw in this case? >> No. >> All right. And the [clears throat] way. the surveillance worked back then, right? Um I'm assuming you weren't that. was 14 years ago. So that would have. been you were there in 2012. >> Technically I got hired in 2010.

>> 2010. All right. So, this is uh another. take a step back another 14 years prior. to you working there. Uh we we heard. testimony that the recording system was. all VHS based. >> Yes. >> The if you could describe for the jury, right? So, you have a control room, I'm. assuming, with all these monitors that. are on there. >> Yes, sir. >> And there's multiple people that are. probably looking at different quadrants. or areas of the casino. >> They're looking at different monitors. Yes, sir. >> Okay. And some of them are concerned.

with like say cheating on the tables and. that kind of thing. Right. >> That is a different. >> a different team altogether. >> I see. >> You have your security team and you have. your gaming surveillance team. >> I see. So you're So as a security team, you're just tasked with uh um safety on. the premises. >> Correct. >> Okay. And so in this case, when those. cameras are going around, they're going. around automatically until such time as. somebody in the control room looks and. says, "Oh, there's something going on. right here." and then manually focuses.

the camera over there. >> Some of the cameras. Yes. >> Okay. And even if the person in the room. is not seeing it, sometimes you'll get a. call from security saying, "Hey, we've. got a situation over by the elevator. banks." And then that would draw. someone's attention to that monitor and. move the camera over to that area. >> Yes, sir. >> Now, is the person that's operating the. camera at that point in direct contact. with the security team that is down. below like in this case in the uh. elevator area? Yes, sir. So, they would. be communicating back and forth about.

whatever it is that would be going on. that would be helpful for everybody to. know. >> Yes, sir. Okay. Now, in this particular. case, [clears throat]. you have um. obviously a lot of people on the on the. on the property. >> Yes, sir. >> Um. maybe you're too young for this, but uh. I mean this was fight night, right? Mike. Tyson against Bruce Seldon. >> Yes, sir. >> Is is that typical? Like is that is that. a typical amount of people uh on the MGM. property?

>> In my experience, yes, that's a typical. of fight night that you would have, >> right? So nowadays it's UFC or you know. some type of championship thing with uh. somebody I don't know but once again. championship level sort of thing, right? Yes, sir. >> Not an everyday. >> not an everyday thing. >> All right. And obviously there's a ton. of people that are there. Um, we see at. some point the group that is attacked. that attacked the individual run.

>> and they run out of the area and I want. to make sure the jury understands. So, going back here again here to states. exhibit number 144. The area where the. attack happens is right here. Is that. right? >> Yes, sir. >> And this is uh right next to it. Uh, it. just says elevator core, right? >> Yes, sir. Now, we talked a little bit. about where they exited and and um and. you had mentioned somewhere, but I just. want to make sure I'm clear as to where. that would have been. Can you tell the. jury where they exited? >> From what I observed it,

>> um sir, just to let you know, you could. actually take that mouse that's right. there and just move it around when he's. on the back. >> Um. >> I got to point it out. >> Usually they can, but. >> All right. Just uh just go ahead and. just describe it and I'll just point it. out. He appears to have traveled. initially after the altercation. He. appears appears to travel north up into. the casino area. um around that area and then from from.

the the description it looks like he. comes back south and then. turns uh to the. >> to the approach that screen. Oh, thank. you, Madam Clerk. Yes, please. Could you. just. >> just talk louder while you're over. there? >> Yes, you can get up and just point it. out on that big screen if you want. >> Sorry. [cough].

>> The altercation occurs in the elevator. core. It appears that it travels up. through this uh this location on the. casino floor and then. turns here and then comes back down. Um, and it appears that he goes. I would have to watch it again. I'm a. little confused on on the exact. like route. There's only two routes. He.

either went out the port of or went out. the line entrance, but I'd have to watch. it one more time to be able to confirm. it. If we can ask the state to be so. kind as to replay that particular video. back for the witness. She needs to put. it back on me. >> Thank you, M. >> And once again, this would be 115 C as. in Charlie.

[cough].

Did that help? >> Yes, it did. Okay,

>> let's uh show this to the jury then put. this back up if you want to go. for a second. Um showing you again. states exhibit uh 44. Can you explain to. the jury the path that uh was taken? Initially it starts in the elevator. core. They exit the elevator core. They. enter the casino floor. They come down. They pass the cage. They pass the Emerald City U. And then they're out the line entrance.

>> All right. And for the record, the line. entrance is on the corner of Las Vegas. Boulevard and. Drop Canada. >> Correct. >> Thank you. Um, now with regards to how we're able. to determine this, obviously it's um. we're looking at this particular map. here and there's names of certain parts. on here. Did that help you in terms of. seeing where the camera locations were? >> Yes. As well as just looking and seeing. that there was a casino cage and there.

was, you know, you were able to. determine just based upon that where. everything was. >> Correct. Okay. Um, now looking at the. map again as well, can you point out for. us the number of cafes that's located on. the property?

>> Would reading the actual thing help you? >> Yes, I think it would. You want the number of cafes, sir? >> Yeah. Just tell me how many cafes are on. the map. >> One, two,

three. >> All right. Thank you. I'm sorry, coach. >> Oh, of course. You may move. Freely. >> Thank you. Uh showing you again for the. jury 144. if you can just get up and. point to the uh to the map in terms of.

where the cafes are on property in 1996. for us please. Got the Coyote Cafe, this. coffee shop, and. I believe this is also like.

coffee. >> Okay, thank you. I appreciate that. Now, in terms of the number of people um. moving through the casino, obviously. very uh excited in terms of who they. think is going through the casino. Would. that have been something that would have. been unnoticed by anyone? >> I'm sorry, I don't understand the. question. >> Seems like a weird question, right? But. the idea behind it is is that there are. so many people moving through that. casino. Um is it is MGN built in such a.

way where you wouldn't notice that the. noise or the bustle or anything like. that? Yes. No, you wouldn't notice it. >> And in terms of the number of people. that are going through there at that. particular time, um you have camera. angles, right? And they're showing us. where these people are going, right? >> Yes. >> So outside of the casino going back down. here to the bottom of 144, were there. any camera angles out here in the line. entrance to help us see where the. individuals left and what direction they.

went to? Not that I'm aware of. >> And fair enough that that there is. actually cameras that are outside the. property as well to protect the MGM. property, right? >> Generally, yes. I don't I don't know. what that was at this time. >> Sure. And I'm not trying to pin you. down, but the idea behind it would be uh. even now for instance, there would be. surveillance cameras to help protect the. property. >> Correct. >> Now pointing uh directing your attention. over here to you had mentioned this. before. What is this called here? I.

don't. >> the port of cashier. Okay. What is that? >> It's It's a. drop off, pickup, a taxi line, um limo service. It's all. It's basically everything for the the. guests arriving to the property. >> Arrive and leaving at the same time. Yes. Okay. And uh fair enough. Once. again, there should have been or would. have been cameras as far as you would. believe in the hotel registration area.

as well as this porta porter. >> Porture. Yes, sir. >> Thank you. Kir, there would been there. would have been cameras there. At least. now there are. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Now, do you know what MGM's policy is. with regards to events that occur on on. property where um police officers. request video surveillance to be.

captured? >> Yes, I know the policy. >> Okay. What is the policy? Um. the policy when police request video is. they submit a um. what we call an admin subpoena. um with the date time and kind of. information that they're requesting. And. then a member of.

either security surveillance or gaming. surveillance will. will put that video onto a portable. portable drive of some sort and provide. it to the police. >> Right. Uh and with regards to that video. surveillance, is it the entire property? >> No. Okay. What what what typically is requested of. the police officers and what's typically. protected or it's saved by MGM.

>> situations dictate but whatever they're. request whatever they're initially. requesting if they're looking for. a physical altercation that's what. they're going to get is the physical. altercation they. we. We don't provide, you know, a 24-hour like movement of the. persons. It's it depends on what they're. requesting. >> Right. So, in this particular regard,

you have an individual dress in a Dan. Marino jersey that um at some point. leaves the elevator area. Recall that? >> Yes. Now, do you know if there was ever. a request to follow that individual. through the casino and maybe out the off. the casino premises just because he had. been involved in an altercation with. some other people? >> I'm not aware of any request.

>> You have no further questions. Thank. you, sir. Let me read redirect. >> Um, you mentioned one you didn't know if. this was 1996 or not. Correct. >> Correct. Um, you also said you weren't. sure whether or not there was a report. written by security. Correct.

>> Correct. >> Let me show you. That document generally look familiar to. you? >> Yes, it does. >> Okay. And that indicates uh the accuracy. of the times on the generally speaking. on the video that we have. >> Yes, sir. >> And. want to read that description to. yourself?

you can there's more but based upon. reading that. are you comfortable. that the Coyote Cafe uh was present in.

1996? Yes. And uh the report does it. indicate that Orlando Anderson was. trying to end or sorry this person in. the 13 was attempting to push past. security into this cafe when he was. attacked. >> Yes, sir. Nothing further. >> Any recross based on that, Mr. Sam? >> Um and I'm sorry, sir. I forgot your. last name. >> Ingram. >> Ingram. Mr. Ingram, the report that you.

just read, did you author that report? >> No. In terms of the report, uh, fair to. say the report is basically reflecting. what's found on the videos that's been. provided by the state. >> It I'm I'm sorry, I lost track. What. >> the the videos that we watched earlier, is that what's in the report? >> Yes. >> So, in essence, the jury can see the. report for them or see the videos for. themselves to determine what was. happening in terms of actions and what. people were doing. Right.

I don't know if that's completely. accurate. There are things that are in. in report that are written by like. eyewitness that you you can't see on. video. >> Sure. Now, the report itself, do you. know who wrote it? >> I do not. >> Do you know if that person had the same. training and experience that you have. here today talking to this jury? >> I do not. Uh in and in terms of the. report itself, is it um is it a standard. uh report that would have been drafted.

back in those days? >> Yes, sir. >> All right. And there would have been. somebody who would have supervised that. report, I would assume, and reviewed it. >> Yes, sir. >> Um do you know who it is in this in this. document? >> Who the supervisor. >> supervisor is? >> I don't know who the manager at the time. was. >> All right. Uh once again, not you. You. were 12, >> right? Okay. >> I have no further question. Thank you. Just briefly, Mr. Sam said that only. what was seen on the video is in this. report, but there's actually a. description of what Mr. Anderson or.

sorry, what the person in number 13 was. doing before we could see it in video. If you read the first. >> Yes, he. Yes, sir. >> This is a document that appears to be. authored by somebody who was present and. confronting Mr. Anderson.

from security as he was trying to get. into the Coyote Cafe when he was. attacked. And then we see on video kind. of the the remnants of that attack, but. not the beginning of it. Correct. >> I'm sorry. I'm just going to object to. that question. I. the door with that question by saying. >> what's your response on leading? >> Oh, as the leading Okay, read the first. four lines of the report. I'll I'll read. I'll rephrase my. >> Okay, so it's sustained. You may. rephrase.

>> Read the the beginning of the report. >> On Sunday, August 7th, 1996 at. approximately 8:50 p.m., this officer. was in the elevator core when I noticed. a BMA wearing a sports jersey force his. way past the officers. Your honor, at. this particular point, I'm going to. object as this is hearsay and there's no. exception to this particular statement. to be brought. >> Okay. Your response on that one? >> Two things. One, he opened the door by. claiming this report only says it's.

that. Two, it's a report generated at. the time by the person who witnessed it. and it is a record of the MGM uh from. MGM in 1996. All of which would qualify. uh for admissibility. Can I have a. question? >> Sure.

All right. Overruled. This docu the the. statement is not being offered for its. truth. Instead, it's being offered to to. rebut the idea that the only thing that.

the report contains is view viewable on. the video and the jury is to consider it. for such. >> If you could just I I guess start over. start at the beginning there and stop. when at the point you get to this person. in New Jersey getting attacked. >> On Sunday, August 7th at 1996 at. approximately 8:50 p.m., this officer. was in the elevator core when I noticed. a BMA wearing a sports jersey force his. way past the officers.

Chelsea, I can't read the first name. Munz. Roberts. at the North Key checkpoint by Co uh. Coyote Cafe. The un the unidentified BMA. was questioned by myself and officer. uh your screen went black. >> Oh, sorry. I love technology.

>> Mhm. Your honor, maybe we put you again while. Mr. Jac is working on technology, Mr. >> Okay. >> Yes.

Go ahead. I think you were an officer. whose name you couldn't quite figure. out. >> The unidentified BNL was questioned by. myself and officer Gamba on the side of. Coyote Cafe. The BMA was very. uncooperative on answering our. questions. While questioning the BMA, he.

continually kept looking over his. shoulder towards the north. the north keych point. It was it was. seconds therefore thereafter when I. noticed a large group of BMAs. forced their way through the north key. checkpoint. The large group of BMAs, approximately. 20, were running right in our directions. as they got close to.

when they got clo close to the BMA. that was being questioned. started to run south towards the. elevator core. around five or six BMAs. from the group caught up with the single. BMA, grabbed him, punched him, and. knocked him to the to the. >> That's probably far enough. Okay, thank. you, sir. I have no more questions. >> Okay, Mr. Sam, anything else based on.

that? I guess that'd be rere. >> No, your honor. Um but with regards to. my discussions with the state, I'm going. to move for the admission of that. particular um page that was uh read into. the record. >> Any objection by the state? >> I don't. There's a second page. Do you. want to read it all first and then make. a decision? Is it first page or both. pages? Is it the second page? >> At least page one will be admitted. Page. two is still up in the air. Um but what. should would that be next in line for. the state or do you want it as defense.

exhibit? Mr. Understand? >> This will be uh this will be defense. exhibit B. >> Okay. So, that'll be admitted as defense. exhibit B. We'll hold tight to see if. you want one or two pages. >> How many pages? >> Uh potentially two, but right now. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Let let my clerk know. >> Yes, ma'am. Thank you. >> So, nothing further? >> Nothing further. >> Any questions from the jury for Mr. Ingram? >> We do have at least one. >> Okay. Hey, can I have the party's. approach?

All.

right. A question from our one of our. juries. Do you know where the person or. officer who wrote the report at MGM from. the security team. witnessed the person in the jersey by. Coyote Cafe? >> Can you restate that for me one more. time? I can try or I can read it again. >> Yes, sir. >> Where is the officer or person who wrote. the report at MGM from the security team. witnessing the person in the Jersey by.

Coyote Cafe? >> Oh, on the map. It's it's located the. entrance, the specific entrance whether. it's. >> um. >> You think maybe you should stand up and. do it on the big ones? I can understand. that. >> So, from the. what I can read the entrance into the. cafe is located here. [cough]. to the cafe. So this is would be where.

the the initial stop and. talk by the the security personnel would. have occurred at. >> And do you know where the person who. wrote the report um was seeing that. person in the jersey from. >> from from that specific location? So she. or the he she I'm not sure the exact. person but the the security uh describes.

that they're at the position and someone. tries to push past, in which case they. approach and and stop and talk at the. entrance of the of the cafe itself. >> Okay. And then as to the second part of. that question, I'm not going to ask. because that's not something that he. would know why that decision was made. Um Steve say, did you want any followup. based on that question? >> You didn't recognize the name of the. author of that particular report, correct? >> Correct. And you have no idea what. happened to that person in the last 30.

years in their lives, whether they're. alive, dead, locatable, anything like. that? >> No knowledge. Thank you, >> Mr. Smith. >> Yes, your honor. Just a couple more. quick. So, I want to be sure I'm I'm. clear. Did the um MGM during that time. period have those booths set up where. you couldn't go to the elevators unless. you had a room key or something? Is that. what we're talking about in terms of a. checkpoint? the the checkpoint is. it's not a physical location as much as. it's a a security position where they.

would check room keys to get into an. area. >> So, if the report is saying someone was. trying to push through, they're trying. to go past that area into the elevator. area. >> I mean, where are they going? >> They That's the direction that he. travels. his security report spec uh um. states he tries to get into the cafe and. then when the uh when they approach when.

he's approached by the large group of uh. males he runs towards that checkpoint. So he's trying to get out or through the. elevator core down into or where. wherever he decided he's trying to go. But that's the checkpoint. That little. looks like a telephone next. Correct. That That's where he's trying to get. >> All right. So, um, but the report's kind. of weird, right? Because it's not saying. that he's trying to go into the Coyote.

Cafe. He's actually trying to go through. a checkpoint or an area. I I think. that's what you read, right? >> I I would have to reread it again, but I. believe he tried to get into Coyote Cafe. first. >> Okay. So, he's going is there's a ton of. people. They're all leaving the fight. And for some reason, him going into the. Coyote Cafe causes security to go after. him. >> If it's closed or if it's blocked for a. private part, I'm not exactly sure. honestly why they would do it.

>> I see. So I mean um but outside of that. uh your your idea as to why the Kerry. Cafe would not be open to this. particular individual in the Marino. jersey would have been because it's. closed for a private function or closed. completely. >> Correct. >> Okay. No further question, John. >> All right. Thank you. Uh Mr. Ingram, you. are excused at this time. >> Sorry, can I have one follow that? >> Oh, okay. >> Or or the cafe is overcrowded and. they're stopping people from going in. >> Correct. Thank you. >> Okay. Okay, now you're free to come.

>> Thank you. >> Ladies and gentlemen, at the jury, at. this time, we're going to take a. 10-minute um restroom break. During the. recess, you are admonished not to talk. or converse amongst yourselves or with. anyone else on any subject connected to. the trial or read, watch, or listen to. any report of our commentary on the. trial of any person connected to this. case by any mean of information, including without limitation, newspaper, television, the internet, [snorts] and. radio or form express any opinion on any. subject with the trial until the case is. submitted to you. We'll see you guys. back here at 11:15. Please rise for the. jury. Go ahead.

jury exited the room. Anything we need.

to address outside the presence? >> Well, I'll work with the state with. regards to the last proposed defense. exhibit. >> Okay, perfect. Well, and then let my. clerk know what pages you want or give. it to her, actually. >> Yes, ma'am. >> You're going to have to print that out. I guess we'll be in recess.

Okay, back on record in versus Davis. C377407. Anything we need to address before. bringing the jury back in? >> State. >> Let's bring him in. Please rise. >> Rise to the jury.

So the party stipulates to the presence.

of the jury. >> Yes, sure. >> You may all be seated. >> Uh you may call your next witness.

Good morning, sir. >> Good morning. >> You solemnly swear affirm the testimony. you're about to give in this action. shall be the truth, the whole truth, and. nothing but the truth. So, help me God. >> Yes, I do. >> Thank you. You may be seated. And sir, if you please state your full name and. then spell it for the record. >> Kenneth Rios, Ken Nos.

>> Thank you, Mr. Rios. Mr. Djako, you may. proceed whenever you're ready. >> Thank you. Uh, sir, how how did you used. to be employed? Uh, I was employed as a. Las Vegas I retired as a Las Vegas. sergeant for Las Vegas Metro Police. >> And how long were you with Metro? >> 28 years. >> And when did you start? >> Uh, April 17th, 1990. >> I direct your attention to September 7th.

of 1996 at about 900 p.m.ish in that. area. Uh, where were you working? I was. working as uniform patrol at the MGM. hotel. >> At that time, did you learn of a. situation that occurred in the elevator. section of the MGM? >> Yes, I did. >> And did you respond over to that. location? >> Yes, I did. >> And did you have contact with an. individual wearing a.

Dam Marino number 13 jersey? >> Yes, I did. >> I'm going to play a little video for. you. Can we go back? And this is 115B. And oh, I got to play it with the other. program. I don't know why.

I'm going to back up just a little bit. here. When you come in, [snorts]. [clears throat].

start right about here. You let us know when you see yourself. >> I see myself. >> All right. And. which of the three officers we have on. scene there are you? >> The one with the dark hair. My back. Well, it was dark back then. Um my back. is towards the camera facing the. gentleman that has the Marino jersey on. >> Eventually, we watch this video. You.

have a conversation with this this. individual. Correct. >> Yes, I did. And at that time, did you. ask him to identify himself? >> Yes, I did. >> How did [snorts] he identify himself? >> He identified himself through California. driver's license, which security had in. their possession and gave to me. >> Um, back then, uh, this is just a fight. call at least a victim. Correct. >> We thought he was a victim. Yes. And so. did you talk to him about um uh whether.

or not he wished to press charges or be. involved? Describe that for us. >> Yes. I asked him first if he needed. medical assistance and he refused. He. said he was fine. Uh I then asked him. what happened and he told me basically. that a couple of guys that he didn't. know jumped him. And once again I asked. him if he needed medical. He said no. I. asked if he wanted to file a report and. he said no. >> Uh at that point was he released and.

free to go on his way? >> Yes, he was. >> Um later on that evening uh did you. learn about a shooting involving Tupac. Shakur? >> Yes, I did. >> And then were you asked to then draft a. report as to what your interaction was. with Mr. Anderson? >> Yes, I was. Um, and at that time, what. name did you remember for Mr. Anderson? >> It was Orlando. I remember his first. name. Um, would it be is it anything.

unusual that when a victim. gets attacked and doesn't want to uh. press charges or write a report for you. not to have written a report that night? >> No, it's it's not. Basically, if you. don't have a victim, you don't have a. crime. as we put it, um, which isn't. necessarily true. You always have a. crime, but if you don't have a victim, the chances of prosecution, you won't get any information and.

there's so we don't take a report if. there the victim refuses. >> It's [clears throat] only afterwards the. incident that occurs a couple hours. later, you then go back from memory and. write down what you recall from this. incident. >> Yes, I did. >> And you were able to remember his first. name as Orlando. >> Yes. Nothing further. >> Mr. S, >> Mr. Rios. >> Yes, sir. >> Uh, did you review anything in your. preparation for your testimony here.

today? >> Yes, I did. >> What did you review? >> I reviewed uh my officer's report. Uh, I. reviewed my memory. I reviewed also the. um. the last statement that I gave, I. believe, was to the grand jury couple. few years ago. >> Okay. Uh, and I would assume that prior. to your testimony at the grand jury, you. reviewed your officer's report back then. even. >> Yes. Yes, I did. >> Prior to testifying in front of the. grand jury. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Um, make sure we're clear here.

You wrote that report. That's in the. course normal course uh of your duties. as a police officer. >> Yes, sir. >> Um, no exception to in terms of you. conducting your business as a police. officer that you don't ever write a. report. No, there's some instances where. I may not write a report. >> Sure. Can you tell us what those. instances are? >> Uh, not off hand because I It's been so. long. There's just You don't write a. report for everything that you do. Everything's recorded in some way. through the computer or through.

dispatch, I'm sure. But, uh, to sit down. and write a formalized report on all my. actions, no. >> So, in terms of all your actions, are. you saying like for instance, if you get. up out of your cubicle and you go into. your sergeant's office to talk about. fantasy football? Oh, no. I would have. been back then talk about the game. between the Bears and the uh you know. Chargers. We're not talking about that. kind of documentation. Right. >> Right. I would never talk about the. Bears but yes. >> Okay. [laughter]. Uh and there we go. Um and in terms of.

the the way though you would handle like. for instance if you're doing an. investigation or in this case you're. part of an incident that occurs a report. would be drafted for something like. this. >> Yes and no. I it would just depend. It. would depend uh. excuse me it would depend on some. factors. Um. in this case. uh there was no victim. He refused any. kind of help. Um but it was worth noting.

because of his involvement. >> Yeah. And so the state had asked you a. question specifically as to when you. wrote your report. You wrote it after. like after you got off of this. particular shift. Is that when you wrote. your report? I don't recall when I wrote. it, but I'm sure that my officer's. report would reflect that time, but um I. know I didn't write it immediately. after. >> All right. And in terms of your. knowledge that Tupac had just been shot, your testimony to the jury is that you.

had understood at that point that. potentially a person by the name of. Orlando may have been something to do. with that particular case. >> I don't recall if that was the reason. why I wrote the report, if that's what. you're asking. >> Yeah. Yeah. cuz I'm a little curious. like how do you I mean you know there's. a shooting of Tupac Shakur how do you is. it because you heard that there's a. shooting up at Tupac Shakur they go wait. a minute there was an incident occurred. with Tupac on property is that how we. get to this point. >> um back then I I don't recall if that. was the process that I went through to.

make the report I don't believe so I. believe that um there was some other. officers that. probably told me and suggested so that I. write a report because of his possible. involvement. >> Right. So. news goes out throughout the valley. Tupac has been shot and then you're. advised, hey, there was something. happening where Tupac just captured. whatever it is that you remember. Right. >> I don't recall that happening that way, but for most intense purposes.

>> Right. Now, in in terms of your report. and um you writing it, um you're still I. mean you're you're still on property. when you hear that there this incident. had occurred with Tupac. >> I don't recall where I was at the time. >> Okay. Um, would you have ever called. back to the MG and say, "Hey, capture. more video uh of, you know, this. particular incident and the guy with a. Marino jersey, you know, the night of. the shooting to help them with whatever.

investigation could be out there. Did. you do that?". >> Not that I recall. No. >> Do you know if anyone else among the. three officers that were there or any. other officers uh would have done. something like that? >> I have no idea. >> Okay. Um maybe they're all Bears fans. and that's the reason why they didn't do. that. >> It could be. >> Yep. >> Um let me ask you this though. In in. terms of your um. uh this particular night uh extra. officers show up as overtime. They work. overtime. Is that what this is? >> Yes, sir. >> All right. And they're doing it for a.

special event, >> right? >> Yes, sir. >> And in this case, this special event was. the Tyson fight. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. Um, in terms of the, uh, amount of people in, you know, in Las. Vegas, I would imagine there would have. been a lot. >> A lot of people. >> Yes. >> Yes, sir. >> Uh, we see video showing obviously a lot. of people at the MGM. >> Yes, sir. >> And would it just be the MGM where the. fight was taking place or would that be. throughout the strip? >> No, there'd be officers on other. properties. >> Yeah. And once again, these officers are.

on there because of the anticipated flow. of people coming into Las Vegas for the. special event. >> Yes, sir. Sir, I have no further questions for. you. Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. >> Anything further, Mr. Jakma? >> No. >> Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, any. questions for this witness? We have at. least one.

They have pretty. All right, a question from one of our.

jurors. After an incident like that, is. it customary to not follow the people. who did the assault? Is it common for. everyone to stay with who you thought. was the victim? My position at that time, yes, it would. be to stay with the victim because we. had already radioed. to other officers that were on scene. Okay. >> And as well as uh the MGM security had. radioed to their officers up front. So, it would have been my responsibility to.

stay with the victim to make sure that. he wasn't in dire need of medical. assistance or still wanted to file a. report. Okay. Any followup based on. that? Mr. Dejock? >> No. >> Mr. S? >> No, your honor. >> Okay. Perfect. Um, with that, you are. free to go. Mr. Ras, >> thank you. >> All right. Um, state, who is your next. witness? >> William Hedmont. >> William. >> William.

>> [snorts].

>> Good morning. You so swear affirm. testimony about given this action shall. be the truth, the whole truth and. nothing but the truth. So I help you. God. >> I do. Thank you, Mayor. >> Thank you. >> And sir, if you please state your full. name and then spell it for the record. >> Uh, it's William Hyde. William W I L L I. A M and Hyde Meer. H E I D M E Y E R. [cough and clears throat]. >> Thank you, sir. Whenever you're ready, state, you may proceed. >> Thank you, sir. Back in 1996, uh, were. you working here in Las Vegas? >> Yes, I was a security officer at the.

Maxim Hotel and Casino. The maximum these days is now the west. end on the corner of Koval and Flamingo. >> Correct. >> And it's on the northwest corner. >> Yes. Northwest corner. >> Um at a well actually sometime prior to. 11:17 p.m. Uh were you uh engaged in an. investigation with some metro officers? >> Yes, I had two metro officers with me. and we were we were looking for stolen.

vehicles. There were five or six Dodge. Caravans that were stolen out of our. parking garage that night. >> And where were you located uh uh when. something unusual did happen? >> Well, I was on the ramp of the third. floor of the parking garage on the. southeast side of the property. >> And uh while you were there, uh describe. what you hear. Well, the two officers, another security officer and I were. standing around one Dodge Caravan and we.

just suddenly heard a a lot of gunfire. and we ran to the the barrier wall that. was overlooking the overlooking Koval. Boulevard, not Koval, Flamingo. Boulevard, and that's when I witnessed. what I saw. >> So, you hear a bunch of shots. How do. you have any idea how many you heard? It. sounded it sounded like a lot. Um, >> one volley, two volley, >> three volleys. >> Three volleys we heard.

>> And when you say a lot, I mean to some. people, can you put any sort of number. on it? >> I had three to four, maybe even five. each volley. It was a a series of pops. >> Somewhere between nine and 15 shots in a. series, >> something like that. Um, you said after the shots fired, you. guys ran to the the the retaining wall. >> Yes. >> I assume you ducked for cover at first. >> No, cuz I I was just I I was armed, so I.

was leaning over the retaining wall to. to see what I could see. >> And when you look over the wall, what do. you see? I see a line of vehicles in the. the. left straight lane on Flamingo heading. heading east. And there's a several vehicles. There. was a white Dodge Stratus at the front, a black BMW behind it, another dark car, and I believe another car. And then. there was a white Chevy Suburban behind. that, and several more cars.

>> Do you see anybody outside of those. vehicles? Yeah, there were a number of. people standing outside of the vehicles. in the traffic lanes. >> And do you see any of them armed? >> One gentleman was armed. One black male. adult, very young, uh well-dressed. He. was wearing a very bright white 3/4. sleeve shirt, black pants, and a black. uh dress vest. >> And at the time that you see him, is he. firing his weapon? >> No, he's not. But he does have the.

weapon in his hand. It was an automatic. weapon. Automatic pistol. semi-automatic. pistol. >> Yes. >> And is he holding it down? Is he. pointing it direction? >> He wasn't pointing it in any direction. It was kind of just off to his side. >> What do you see this caravan of cars do? Well, I I I looked back because the. metro officers jumped in their cars to. pursue and then when I turned around, everyone was back in their cars again. and they made a Uturn heading west on.

Flamingo towards Las Vegas Boulevard. >> Uh, all of the cars in the caravan. >> Yes. >> And so you see them make a U-turn at. Cobalt and head back towards Las Vegas. Boulevard. >> Correct. And those vehicles, you saw two. the two metro officers you were with. jump in their vehicle to give chase to. that caravan. >> Correct. >> Um at the time that. you're out there and you see somebody. with a gun, you've just heard shots.

fired. Is it the conclusion you. originally drew that that person was. your suspect? >> Yes. Yeah, that that's what I deduced at. the time. And based upon the officers. following that caravan, that's a. reasonable assumption that they deduced. that as well, >> right? Um, and they asked me what. direction they were going. They from. they rolled down their windows and were. asking me what direction everybody went. And so I pointed to make a right and. head towards Las Vegas Boulevard.

>> And those officers then went after the. caravan. Correct. >> Objection. It's a speculation. >> Uh, what's your response? >> Well, he watched him do it. He didn't. test it. Did he testify that? >> Did you watch some more foundation? >> Did you watch the officers go after the. that caravan? >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you, sir. I pass the. witness. >> Okay. Uh any questions, Mr. St? >> Yes, you are. Uh Mr. Hiden Meer, uh. I'm going to show you what's been marked. and admitted as state exhibit number.

>> one. >> One, one. You want two? me. >> Thank you. >> Closer. modern. You're right. >> All right. Uh I'll show you states exhibit number. one here. Um you recognize this photograph? >> Uh yes. >> Okay. Uh just to get to the point, this. is Las Vegas.

>> Yes. >> All right. And I'm just more concerned. right now about the actual streets. themselves. Can you um just. show us? Actually, you know what? If you. can we have if you could step down out. of the witness chair and just go over to. that screen, I'm going to have you point. out for the jury where everything's at. Okay. >> Okay. >> All right. Can you point and and show us. where the Maxim Hotel is? >> The Maxim Hotel, this is Flamingo, would. be right right about here.

>> Let me help you out. >> Yeah, right about here. >> Okay. And uh just for the record, looks. like you're pointing uh in in this area. right here. >> Well, this would be the hotel and this. would be where the parking garage was. And there was parking in front of the. parking garage as well. >> All right. And just for the record, I'm. pointing to the north part of uh this. would be Flamingo that I'm pointing at. Is that correct? >> Correct. >> And that's on the north side of Flamingo. in between. And what's the main streets. that are in between um where the. property sits? >> Uh it's it's it sits on Cobalt and.

Flamingo. The entrance to the parking. garage was over here. >> All right. Uh and so that area is where. the Maximum Hotel was located, >> right? But adjacent to the parking. garage, >> right? And the parking garage, once. again, for my edification is where. exactly, if you could just point that. out for us. >> Right here. >> All right. So, that would be on the. north side of the property. >> Yes. >> So, would that be behind where the um. hotel is? >> No. No, it's beside the hotel. >> Beside the hotel. Okay. Uh and that's. where you were located with the two.

police officers. >> Correct. Now, you were investigating at. that particular time uh stolen vehicles. out of that garage. Did you write a. report uh on your own with regards to. what you were doing that night with the. stolen vehicles? And. >> actually, you know, I turned that report. over to my other co- officers at. security because I was tied up with this. incident. >> Okay, I'm going to zoom in a little bit. better for you here, sir, if I could. Uh. going back again, that's hopefully more helpful. Um, all.

right. So, when you said that you looked. over and you saw, can you explain for us. again [cough and clears throat] sort of. where the vehicles were that you saw? >> Well, the vehicles were on Flamingo. heading east and they were in You have a. left turn lane, uh, two forward lanes. and a right turn lane. And the vehicles. were in the farthest left center lane. >> Farthest left center lane. >> Correct. meaning that they were all intending on. going forward.

>> Correct. >> They're not making that left. >> No, but they ended up making a Uturn. >> Sure. And once again, for our. edification, this is 30 years ago, right? So, you've got three lanes going. directly east. >> and is that a yes? >> Yes. And then you have is it two lanes. that are actually turn lanes uh to turn. onto Cobalt? Is it. >> actually I believe it was two lanes. So. it was it would be from the. facing facing east. It would have been. the third lane that they were in. There's two turn lanes, two straight. lanes in the right lane.

>> All right. And then with regards to the. vehicles themselves, your your testimony. was that there was a white van of some. sort or maybe vehicle in front of the. black. >> Yeah, it was a white Dodge Strat. >> I see. Is that a Is that a van? No, that's. >> it's a it's a twodoor sedan. >> Okay. And then behind it is the M is the. BMW. >> Yes. >> And then behind it are multiple cars. leaning back. >> Yes. >> And your testimony was that you had. identified a Lex is it a Lexus behind. it? >> I think it was a Lexus, I believe. So.

>> And then another vehicle and then a. white Chevy and then it just kept going. all the way down. >> Correct. >> So even though we're identifying these. vehicles, you don't know how many. vehicles were in the in the procession. or the. >> It was several. I didn't count them at. the time, but it was a good 10 vehicles. >> Okay. And all those vehicles are now. making a U-turn and heading back towards. Las Vegas Boulevard. >> Correct. >> Uh you don't see the actual shots being, you know, someone actually pointing a. gun at something and shooting something? >> No, I did not. >> You just heard it. >> Yes. >> The individual that you had identified.

as the uh person with a gun? >> Yes. >> Do you um did you see that individual. shoot his weapon? >> No. >> All right. But you saw him dressed up in. a relatively nice looking sort of. presentation, black pants. >> Yes, he was well dressed. >> Okay. vest and a white shirt. >> Okay. I have no further questions. Thank. you so much. I appreciate it. Yeah, you. can come back. >> Sit down. >> Yeah. Sorry. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> No worries.

>> State. Anything further? >> No. >> Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, any. questions for this witness? Seeing none, thank you so much for being. with us, Mr. Haidimire. You are free to. go. >> All right. Thank you very much. >> You're welcome. State you have one more right before. >> Yes, judge. >> Okay. Who's that going to be? >> Dino Kelly.

Swear testimony action truth. >> I do. >> If you please state your full name and.

then spell it for the record. It's Dean. O'kelly and it's D E A N O apostrophe K. E L O L O L O L O L O L O L O L O L O L. O L E Y. >> Thank you, Mr. O Kelly. You may proceed, Mr. Dej. >> Sir, how are you currently employed? >> I'm a deputy marshal in district court. with Judge Erica Mendoza. >> Prior to become a deputy marshal, uh. well, I guess you've had multiple hats. At some point, were you a Metro Police. officer? Yes, I was for 20 plus years.

>> And approximately what year did you. start? >> September of 1991. >> And then uh when did you retire as a. metro officer? >> July uh 12th of 2012. >> And after July 12th of 2012, did you do. something else with Metro? >> I did for about eight almost eight and a. half years. I I was a cold case homicide. investigator. >> Now, in the Well, let me ask you this.

When did you first go to homicide. >> in 2003. on July? >> Um, so in so on September 7th of 1996, what was your assignment? >> I was a detective in the gang unit on. one of the enforcement teams. >> What does that mean you did for. Metro? What's an enforcement team? So, the enforcement teams are dressed in. greens and and we um usually have five.

or six detectives together and we would. patrol uh known gang areas um and come. in contact with with gatherings that. that involved uh gang members. And then. after enforcement, I did two years of. investigation where I investigated uh. gang related crimes. Um before I get to um. your actions on this particular evening, I want to ask you a little bit about how. the process of report writing uh has.

changed at Metro over the years. Um, you. have handled your own cases since the. early 2000s, but you also were a cold. case investigator, which I mean, I. assume that means you also have. experience with. years and years and years before you. ever even became a police officer. >> Certainly. >> Was there a particular way that cases. were documented. um, up until the early to mid 2000s?

I mean, I think there's been some. changes over time just because of the. digital age and, you know, when I first. went to homicide, we were still using. typewriters that had the little spinning. ball on there and actually typing in. triplicate, those types of things. Um, keeping our notes, you know, handwritten. in in our notebook. And then it kind of. changed over time. Everything went. digital and we started keeping things on. the computer. And so, uh, when we're talking 96, there. was multiple reports written by officers.

as they did things because there wasn't. the same computerized systems we have. today. >> That's correct. >> Modern day, is there something called a. main case report or a main o officers. report related to homicides? >> Yes, there is. >> Explain that to ladies and gentlemen. So, what we normally do and and it kind. of depends on the detective themselves. I mean, you probably worked with people. that have postit all over their desk and. it's a total wreck and you you have no.

idea what you're looking at, but they. know where everything is and they know. how it's organized. We had detectives. that were like that. Me personally, I. would keep everything on what's called a. case management form. So from the very. beginning, from the very start of when. we got a call and we're keeping notes in. a notebook, all that information go into. a case management form. So I wouldn't be. initially concerned with an officer's. report getting started at any point. because I was using that management form.

each and every time we did something. investigatively. If we took a phone call. from, you know, a witness, then I would. document that on that form. And at some. point, especially if you had somebody. that was in custody, you would transfer. all that information over into an. organized officer's report, which would. then have the title at the top. It would. have the date and time and location of. when the incident occurred, who's. involved, who are the suspects, who are. the victims, who are the witnesses, and.

it would be in a chronological order in. an investigation. But initially, everything's kept just basically in the. in the management form. Eventually, you. want to get to the point where you put. together all that information into an. officer's report. And then there will. come a point in time where the. individual detective would make the. decision that the officer's report's. final, right? You would get it signed. off. It'd be signed off by your. sergeant. It go into the case file. And.

then from that point, you would just. basically be filing addendums as new. information came in. You might write. that information down on that management. form and then do an additional officer. report. That's definitely something that. I saw when I went to Cole Casease. Some. of the cases that were, you know, 20. years old, every single step that that. detective did was a completely separate. officer's report. So, you'd get 15. officers report in in the case file. It.

definitely made a lot more sense to. finally get to one point where we had. just one officer's report covering the. case. And in your experience, is it. unusual for an officer's report to be. the very last thing that's generated by. the detective. uh the uh assigned to the particular. case? >> No, that's not unusual at all. I direct your attention back to uh. September of 1997. And I'm going to put.

up really two aerials for you first of. all, but I'm going to start with uh. states exhibit number one. We go back to. me. [clears throat]. >> That appears to be a aerial of Las Vegas. Valley. >> Yes. >> Okay. And uh it's clearly more modern. than uh 1996 because you can see.

T-Mobile over here and some other. things. Is that correct? >> Quite a bit different today. Yes, that's. true. >> And then I'm going to go back and show. states exhibit number two. This is a much. earlier [cough and snorts] rendition of. the Las Vegas Valley because T-Mobile's. not there. Is that is that accurate? >> That's correct. >> Okay. Um and identified on states.

exhibit number two is where the Oh, I. can't move. Oh, I can move the mouse. away. Uh, where it says Monte Carlo, that's generally where the Park MGM is. today. >> That's correct. >> And at the time back in 1996, there was. a club called the 662 club on Flamingo. Is that correct? >> Yes, very familiar with it. >> And is that referenced in States exhibit. number two as well? >> It is. And is that generally in the. location where it's at?

>> Correct. So, now I want to jump back to 1. at about 11:17 p.m. uh on September 7th. of 1996. Where were you? >> We were uh conducting enforcement. activity uh kind of northeast of of the. location of Kobalingo. >> And did something catch your attention? >> Yes. Uh as we were out with the a couple.

of two, three gang members. We heard. over the radio an officer um rather. excited, certainly under a stressful. situation, reporting uh shots being. fired and requesting a code red on the. radio. Uh we were we weren't very far. away, so we cut the guys loose that we. were with, got in our vehicles, and and. uh with lights and siren, we went over. into to respond to that area of the. Maxim Hotel. When uh an officer calls out code red,

what does that mean? What what is he. trying to do? >> The code red uh is so that no other. radio traffic is coming across except. for what those officers are going. through. So it's trying to keep the the. the radio traffic to a minimum. Um so we. didn't even announce that we were in. route. That's not important for dispatch. or really anybody else to know that we. were on our way. um because we're we're. waiting for updates from that officer or.

from the officers involved. So, we stay. off the radio. It's it's a sacred thing. You don't break the code red unless you. really have to get on the radio. >> And where do you respond to? >> We responded to the intersection of um. Koval and Flamingo right there at the um. at the Maxim Hotel. Now it's called the. the Weston. Um but we went into the. parking lot on the south side of um the. Maxim and where we saw a patrol unit.

>> Um at some point do you walk out onto. Flamingo? Uh well, let me ask you this. When you first arrive, is there traffic. still driving eastbound on Flamingo? >> Yes. I mean, nothing nothing's changed. at so far as traffic at that point. because whatever had happened was. several minutes before that. So now. people are still just driving by. We we. got to the parking lot. Um my sergeant, Sergeant Cindy West, had inquired as to.

where the shots had come from and we. were able to look out into the street. there on um on Flamingo, just west of. Koval. And I I saw in the headlights. just little glints of light and. recognized that. have spent plenty of. time on on a firing range and I know. what what brass looks like on the. ground. So, we we were able to determine. where uh several cartridge cases were. located in the in the street uh west of.

Koval on Flamingo. >> I'm going to approach and show you. states proposed exhibit 34 to 41. As you look through those, I'm going to. grab something from the clerk.

Do you recognize those? >> I do. >> And how do you recognize those? When we. spotted the cartridge cases in the. street, I at the time my enforcement. vehicle was in a Chevy van and we had a. whole bunch of cones. So, as we located. the cartridge cases there on the. roadway, we took a bunch of cones out of.

the of my vehicle and actually placed. them in the photographs, you'll see it a. little bit different, but we placed the. cones on top of or over the cartridge. cases. So the cones protected where they. were located because you could even see. there was at least I know one for sure. maybe more that had already been um run. over by traffic so it was a little bit. mangled. Uh so we protected the crime. scene and we also uh popped a couple of. flares on the um north side of the.

number three travel lane where the the. cartridge cases are located. Uh, and this fairly states exhibits 34. through 41 fairly and accurately. represent that situation. >> Yes, it is. Move to admit. >> No, >> to admit it. >> So, I'm going to put up 34. And can you just describe for us what. we're looking at? >> So, um, you can see the the, uh,

cartridge cases are kind of straddling. the two lanes. >> I stop you for a second, Mr. O Kelly. Yes. Um, >> there's a mouse sitting right there. >> Don't click it. It just uh it'll freeze. up the whole system, but you can use it. as a pointer. >> Exactly. So, these two cones that we set. up here were more or less to protect. where the cartridge cases were located. These other cones are covering the. actual cartridge cases in the roadway. The one that's closest to uh to us in. this picture is a bullet fragment. It.

was the furthest away from Cobalt. And. then the other cones are all uh spent. cartridge cases. Um uh Winchester Smith. and Wesson 40 caliber cartridge cases. >> Do you know uh a person by the name of. Dan Ford? >> Yes, I do. >> How do you know Dan? >> Uh Dan Ford is a senior crime scene. analyst that um I worked with quite a. bit. Um, we started on the department. right around the same time. Um, and ran.

into him several times on cases that I. worked with in the gang unit. investigations. Um, we also utilized him. on the RICO task force that I was on for. a couple years and then he responded. count countless homicide investigations. um during my career. >> Eventually, does Mr. Ford leave the. crime scene that was at Harmon and Las. Vegas Boulevard and come and is he the. person that takes these pictures and. winds up collecting these items? >> Yes, he is. Fortunately, um Dan was.

already dispatched to the area of the. Maxim for the patrol units that had. called out on the radio the shots that. were fired. They were taking um report. for damaged vehicles that were there and. and Dan had already been dispatched to. that. So he wasn't far away when the. shots rang out and he was requested to. come to that scene. >> Sitting there in front of you. is states proposed exhibit.

129. Um. >> looking at the state proposed exhibit. number 129. Do you recognize what that. item is? >> Uh yes I do. Um, I've seen and reviewed. the handwritten uh, evidence inventory. that was authored by Dan Ford. I can see. that that's his handwriting. It's also. his initials and P number that are on. the package for the uh, Winchester. cartridge cases.

And then. there's a red seal on the back of here. uh, that would have been placed on by. Mr. Ford. Correct. The red seal is not. So it's Oh, it is. It is marked up here at the top for his. P number. This doesn't look I don't. know. Oh, that he wrote the date on. that. So 97 of 96. So he initialed in. the top corner and then put the date. down in the bottom corner. Yes. >> And all these blue seals are the times. that the forensic lab has opened this.

package in order to look at these items. and potentially do some testing. >> That's correct. But I do remember from. the uh evidence inventory that uh that. Dan had indicated that these cartridge. cases were were checked for fingerprints. at the time with negative results. >> So I'm going to have Well, I guess I'll. move to admit 129. Judge, >> no objection. >> Okay. So admit [cough and clears throat]. I'm going to have you cut this not along. a seal. There's a place left to do.

>> I think you can cut right along there. You can pull those items out. >> Oh, yeah. Down here at the bottom. I can. think we have to go too far. Do that. Just pull those items out.

And these. um well they will eventually be marked. uh 129 a. G a through g but I'm going to show you. um this one which has a 14 on the top of. it.

And you said you remember at least one. of them was mangled. >> This one's flattened on the on the. opening opposite of the the head stamp. It's flattened. So, it's been run over. >> And there appears to be at least one. more of these that has some damage to. it. Several of them have damage to them. Is that correct? >> They're definitely misshapen. A couple of them are. This is actually. the the closest that I've seen them. because when we came out, we just put.

the cones right over the top of them. Didn't mess with them at all. So, I'm. able to now uh look at even the the. primary impacts, which is significant. >> Why is that significant? >> Because um the a Glock pistol has a. rectangular opening for the firing pin. It's vertically oriented on the um front. of the bolt face for a Glock pistol. And. you can tell by looking at the primer. impact that that's roughly the shape of. the impact on the primer.

>> So that suggests to you that the weapon. was a Glock 40. >> That's correct. >> Now, detective um or I guess it's Mr. O'Ketley now. Detective retired. I don't. know. >> Deputy Marshall. >> Um yeah, Deputy Marshall. There you go. Uh. while you're at the scene, are you. getting updates on the radio as to. potential uh suspect vehicles that you. should be looking for?

>> Periodically, again, that code red is in. effect for quite a while, so there's not. a lot of radio traffic that was going. on. Um the the call came in. initiating the code red at at 11:17. We were only we were short distance away. and we went code but we ran code so we. did light lights and siren. It didn't. take us very long to get there. I know. that we that Sergeant West waited until. there was a complete lull in the radio.

traffic and announced that we were in. route and arrived at the same time and I. believe that was at 11:26. We had been. there before that. So we were there. within I mean before 11:20 we were we. were already there at the scene. So at. about um a little bit past 11:30 we got. an update on um the description rough. description of of a light colored.

Cadillac. I know it some point on the CAD report. it said late 90s. It had to be late 80s. right? This is 96. And there was also. some indication that it was in good. condition which would say that it was an. older vehicle than late 90s. Right. So. we were looking for a a light colored. possibly white um Cadillac with two uh. black male occupants. And there was a. report that it was northbound on Audrey. which um now Audrey Lane is the link,

right? It's the link lane. So it's on. the west side of the Maxim going north. Um there was some report that possibly. that's where the suspect vehicle had. gone. >> So initial reports says light color. Cadillac last seen northbound on Audrey, >> right? With two black males at that. point. >> Okay. Um do you wind up getting updates. throughout the evening as to the vehicle. you're looking for? We did um I'd say um.

it was about. it was about an hour or so about quarter. to one maybe right around that time that. we got an update that we that we were. looking for that same. white um Cadillac in in good condition. but potentially occupied now by four. black males and was southbound on. Cobalt. that laid made a little bit more. sense to us, especially that we were out. on the eastbound lanes of Koval, right.

just short of the the intersection and. that the the. Cadillac had to have been to the south. of the BMW and it made more sense that. they would have made a right turn. So, that definitely clicked when we were. told they were southbound on Cobalt. Uh. does there come a point in time when you. uh do what's known as an ATL or attempt. to locate that particular vehicle? >> Yes. >> Uh thankfully because um Dan Ford was.

not too far away. Um we were able to get. relieved from our protection of the. crime scene where the cartridge cases. were located. And it was I think we. cleared exactly an hour after the. initial code red was called. And that. was the first thing that we did was was. make every we went south on Cobalt. We. checked areas that we frequented um in. the gang unit looking for potentially.

really any. light colored Cadillac. We were talk, you know, the kind of the yellowish. lights that we have in town, the street. lights that they use for low, you know, uh, you know, so it's not too much light. in town. Uh, those can kind of throw you. off on color. So, we were looking for. any light color. We'll put back up say. exhibit one. During all this time period that you and. your partner uh, ATL for this white. Cadillac, did you ever drive into the. parking lot of the carriage house?

No, I can say that in my 35 years, I've. never been in the I've never been in the. carriage house. >> Thank you. >> I'll pass the witness. >> Okay. Cross-examination, Mr. S. [clears throat]. >> Sorry, sir. What's your last name again? >> O Kelly. O apostrophe K E L L E Y. Mr. Kelly, thank you for being here today. um your testimony obviously uh I would. imagine before you. were here you probably reviewed your. reports whatever it is you wrote during.

that time period I didn't write any um. certainly um even after I went to. homicide I wasn't involved in in the. investigation for this case um I did. review the CAD report the computer aided. d dispatch report noting those times I. don't have that great a memory so I'm. going to have to tell you that um and um. that handwritten uh evidence inventory. by Dan Forward. I al I have both copies. right here in my notebook. I see. So um. at the time you retired, you retired as.

a homicide detective? >> I did. >> And then at that point you came back to. work as uh in the cold case unit as an. investigator. >> I did. Yes. >> All right. Now, a couple things. First. of all, when you retired as a detective. with homicide, were there any. outstanding reports that you had not. drafted when you left? I can tell you. that as and people love me. So they got. a limousine and we had a big party. So. as there was a limousine [laughter] out.

in front of. uh headquarters at 400 uh Martin Luther. King, I was typing I was typing the last. officer's report that I needed to. personally finish. I was leaving a a. partner behind whose name is also Dean. Uh, so he was able to, you know, tie up. any of the cases that we had at that. point. But I would say. there were, um, but the ones that I knew. I needed to get done before I left, I.

got done. >> And, and the reason why you prioritized. those ones is because I would imagine. they're still open investigations and. you're handing it off to the next person. to continue with your work. >> That's correct. It makes it easier for. them if it's tied up as best we can. >> Right. Did you take any of your um any. of those cases with you when you went. over to the cold case unit? >> I when I came back to cold case um that. was the the original reason that I even. agreed to do cold case homicide.

investigation was because of. unsolved cases that I personally had. investigated one in particular. So, as. soon as I came back to a cold case. homicide, the very first thing I did was. go and and pull uh Jamie Sheldon's case. and bring it over to my desk. That's the. first case that went there. And we're. able to work was able to work, you know, I was honored to be able to work on. cases like that and others that I have.

been a part of when when I was a. detective. Yes. >> So, in terms of just explain to the jury. what a cold case is, u can you explain. that? Certainly. So, a court case is. officially cold when the detectives who. are originally assigned to it are no. longer there, whether they transferred. out or they retired. Um, if if there. isn't an original detective assigned to. the case, it's considered cold, right? No one's assigned to it. Those cases can.

be handed off to other detectives that. are still in the unit. I remember, you. know, when Marty Wildman left the. department, he came over to me. personally and said, "Hey, I'm I'm. handing Teresa Insana to you. Can you. take this case on and and continue to. follow it up?" It's considered cold. because he's gone. Right. As soon as he. left, it's officially a cold case. Um, but if there's a detective. who was originally assigned to the case,

it's their case until they're done. Right? You're not going to go stepping. on toes and just pulling cases and start. working on other people's stuff unless. they asked you to do it. >> And with regards to the cold case unit, uh I'm assuming there's probably two. detectives who are the official. detectives for the unit. Then you have. investigators, retired homicide. detectives that help with the. investigation. >> That's correct. Initially when um. Sergeant Hefner, Sergeant in homicide, but then came back. with me at the same time. So the two of. us came back and we were on our own.

Like we had a sergeant that was assigned. to us that basically they were a. signature block. We could do we could. pull any case that we wanted and work on. those. The department saw um thankfully. a lot to do with the work that we were. getting accomplished where we solved 20. 25 year old cases and you know the. department's able to go to the media and. say look you know we we're not giving up. after all these years. we're going to. continue to follow these cases and solve. them. Because of that success level,

then the department dedicated two. full-time detectives u that were still. in homicide um to the cold case unit. And then we had I want to say three, four more uh cold case investigators. that were assigned uh to us. I think we. had a total of five or six at one point. plus the two detectives and a and a. dedicated uh sergeant to the cold case. unit. So in terms of your work in the.

cold case as an investigator, you're not. an a detective, right? >> No. >> So there is a difference in terms of. your responsibilities versus the. responsibilities of a detective. >> Correct. >> Because the detective would be the law. enforcement officer. >> Certainly. and you are the person. helping the law enforcement officer. >> essentially. I mean, we're we can still. steer the investigation where we want it. to go. We're doing in we're doing. interviews. We're doing those things, but say authoring a search warrant. So, we run into a situation where we need a. search warrant done. It's going to be it.

may get written by one of us, but it's. going to be sworn to as an affidavit by. a detective on the department who's a. sworn police officer. >> [clears throat]. >> Have you ever drafted a report, I don't know, eight years after you. started an investigation? >> Well, because a cold case, yes, certainly. >> But just just as a police officer or. detective, have you ever waited, say, years to draft an actual report on. something? I don't know what would be my.

uh recordbreaking. delay in in authoring a report, but I'd. say yeah, if you're dealing with a case. where there's nobody in custody, like. you haven't arrested anybody. Um. I mean, I probably pushing two years. before I finally said, you know, and. even reluctantly said, "All right, I'm. going to I'm going to close this. officer's report. I'm gonna it's signed. off because we've run out of. investigative leads. We're to that. point. There's really nothing else.

coming in and now that's officially. done. Then there could be maybe somebody. calling up or we could have somebody. that gets in a jam right where they're. now looking at serious time. This has. happened to us in cold case where now. that person says, "Hey, I I have. information on a murder." So now it's. completely open. Now the case is back up. and running and there would be a new. officer's report uh started at that. point in time to complete that. investigation. I know where the gun is.

I know who did the shooting and and now. we've got a a solid case after 15 20. years. >> Now have you ever delayed writing an. officer's report after going to the. grand jury and presenting evidence on. that same case? Uh yeah, I would say. that I've I've gone to grand jury before. officers reports are done. I I would say. that I've gone to grand jury before I've. started an officer's report again. because for me personally and for a lot.

of the guys that I work with, I'm not. completely OCD, but I mean certainly. there's things that I I need to get done. or I'm not going to be able to sleep, that kind of thing. You may feel that. way, but I always get the the case. management form started and maintained. up to date. It's going to be up to date. If you make a phone call to me, I'm. going to document a date, time, phone. call, right? That may not that may not. go into the ultimate officer's report. because it's superolous information.

Didn't mean anything, but I'm going to. keep that record in the CMF. I might not. even start the officer's report for. months. and grand jury may have already. happened. Now, I feel now some pressure. to get that done, right? Because. somebody, if I'm going to grand jury, more than likely, we have somebody in. custody and I want the district. attorney's office to have the benefit of. a completed officer's report, although. it's not necessary, >> right? And so, in if you had submitted.

it to the grand jury or had done your. grand jury, you're telling us at some. point you could delay finalizing your. officer's report? >> Yes. Okay. Now, um would you delay that. that officer's report uh until after you. retire? >> Well, because I still have a partner. that hasn't retired, I can have. confidence in doing that. You know, I. definitely we definitely did have that. happen. I I recall specifically a double. murder that was not the officer's report.

wasn't done when I left. Um because I. knew Dean was going to be Detective. Rates was going to be continuing on with. it, >> right? So you knew that the other. detective would still be the detective. handling the case through because you. are now retired. >> No question. >> But what if you didn't have that. detective there that you're a partner? Would you have delayed after you retired. to draft your officer report? >> I would I would I would not. How about. that? >> I mean, I wouldn't be able to do it, right? I mean, I just know that I. wouldn't be able to do it. That's why.

when you know the limo's out in front of. headquarters, I'm typing an officer's. report. I literally left the I got the. officer report done and then went. downstairs. I was done. I was retired. >> Now, can you explain Can you explain to. us I'm sorry for interrupting, >> but can you explain for us a little bit. about why reports are so important to. you in your line of work as a homicide. detective? reports document everything, right? I. mean, you need to document your. observations. You need to document uh.

evidence. and and for us in in homicide or even in. the gang unit before that, we did that. with officers reports. Officers reports. don't become evidence, right? Officer's. reports are so. anybody picking up that case file can. walk through the investigation from. beginning to the last part of an. officer's report as a conclusion. Right? So it may be a conclusion as to what you. believe happened and you don't have.

somebody in custody. It can be a. completed officer's report where the. case is insolved. It's still open, right? But you can, it's. at that point when you're doing the. conclusion, it's more or less your. opinion. This is what we believe based. on the everything else that precedes it. in the officer's report. >> Okay. And that would of course help you. later if you ever were called to testify. in in front of a jury to recall what. happened. >> Oh, absolutely. That's the that's the. go-to.

document for somebody who's preparing. for trial is that officer's report. I. mean, it can be lengthy. I met I've. written officers reports that are 70. pages long. >> And um with regard to those reports and. being 70 pages long, fair to say that. details are super important when you're. doing this kind of investigation. >> They are. And that would be helpful for. you to remember details in the future, right? To write a good report, >> right? The more extensive and the more. detailed your report, the the better off.

you're going to be, the more prepared. you're going to be. In addition to that, you could be documenting things that you. observed or that you knew at the time. you were doing the investigation that. you don't realize were important, right? So, I could document something in a. crime scene that seems like it's. innocuous, you know, something that's. just doesn't seem like it's that. important. And then later on when maybe. a suspect's in custody or you know the.

investigation's furthered then you you. find out oh that one item that you made. a note of now becomes important because. the suspect touched it or that was the. murder weapon that was cleaned up and. stuck over there and nobody realized it. Now once a now you're let's shift gears. a little bit here. So you're no longer a. detective. You're now working with a. code case. Have you taken on any cold. cases that weren't yours to begin with? >> Certainly. >> And what is typically the standard. operating procedure when you are. starting your investigation as a cold.

case investigator? >> So, you're pulling the case file, right? And it can be extensive depending on the. on the murder, depending on the case. that you're looking at can be rather. extensive. Some of the cases that we. were pulling had pouches in them with. VHS tapes, right? There were separate. boxes that had VHS tapes in them. We. probably may even know what a VHS tape. So, and we had um cassette tapes, right?

Actual physical cassette tapes. So, we. were having to we had to maintain a V a. VHS player in homicide to be able to to. review those things. So, we had some of. the archaic methods to to review. evidence. We would go through the entire. case file and that would give us a. starting point. As you might imagine, what we're looking for in cold case. because the advances in technology is do. we have any trace evidence that wasn't. analyzed? Do we have any fingerprints. that were analyzed? Do we have any DNA.

that maybe, you know, this precedes DNA? We were we looked at some cases that. were before I was born. Okay, it's my. 65th lap around the sun. We were looking. at cases before I was even on this. planet. So, um, you go through. [clears throat] the entire thing and you. try and make as heads or tails of where. the detective took that investigation at. that point. Sometimes that could be. difficult, especially if you're dealing. with one of those Post-it people, right? You're dealing with one of the ones that.

were writing notes on cocktail mat, you. know, napkins and stuff and keeping them. in the case file. We had we'd pull. little notes that were like, I have no. clue how this relates to the. investigation at all. Don't know if they. talked to this person, didn't talk to. this person, does was this a witness? Was this a secondary victim? You know, we didn't know. So, we'd have to try and. track those down. And some of the cases. were so old that, you know, people. people that we were dealing with, they're deceased. >> Did you have any success with what you. did on the cold case unit?

>> Oh, certainly. Yeah, we closed quite a. few. So, uh, when you say closed, meaning. that you were able to find out basically. the information you needed, you know, the suspect or case wise? >> Yes, absolutely. All the way through to. an arrest and prosecution and. conviction. Yes. >> And with regards to the success you had. on the cold case, did any of those cases. um not involve some type of. technological thing like either a trace, DNA, or fingerprints?

I think I I'd say there was. none come to my mind that we didn't have. something that was redone and reviewed. um and then came to a conclusion or. pointed to a specific person that we. were then able to go and interview. Um, we had a couple, we have one, we had one. where. we flew to Toledo and we got a. confession on a murder that happened uh.

here in Las Vegas. Um, because that. person was already doing life without. there for another murder that he had. committed. Um, I don't recall that we. had any physical evidence in there that. we um that we needed. He he confessed to. it basically. >> What do I have to lose? I'm already. doing life without. So he basically was. in custody ready for a murder in another. state and basically confessed and said, "Hey, I I'm confessing to this murder in. Nevada.". >> Correct. >> So it wasn't like you found, you know,

we did I mean there's you know we you. look at some of these case files and. they're they're definitely pointing. towards a specific person, right? We. everything every indication is that this. is who you're dealing with, right? And. that it just didn't you couldn't get it. [clears throat] across the finish line, right? And like Jamie Sheldon I brought. up earlier, you know, I know who did. that murder, but it's whether or not. there's enough to get across the finish. line with that piece of evidence that's. going to be where the district attorneys.

are willing to take that case to trial. and you're waiting for that one more. thing, right? So, it just stays there. waiting for that one more piece of. evidence to come in. Um, and that. happened with some of the Cole cases. where it's like, hey, we we knew who. this person was. I remember one. specifically where we had a guy where we. knew in the gang unit who we were. looking for and then I got to homicide. and then looked up case files and saw. that that person had never been charged. Like how did he how did he never get.

charged? We knew who it was and we were. able to then um put enough together to. arrest him and get a conviction. >> And the arrest was because of either DNA. or fingerprints or something along those. lines. >> On that one? know, we had uh we had. video surveillance um that existed at. the time on a VHS tape from a 7-Eleven, you know, back when they were recording. over them every seven days. And so it. was grainy and you're like trying to get. a clear enough picture. Um but we were. able to and we had physical evidence at.

the time that existed at the time. connecting him to other cases and we. were able to get a conviction on that. particular case with nothing new. >> Okay. So I just want to make sure I'm. clear. So that requ that that was video. surveillance with some other physical. evidence that helped you solve that. >> cartridge cases. Yes. >> Okay. All right. Uh and then in terms of your. work. the night of what happened here and if I. could just ask over.

Are you uh does this help a little bit. here about just zoning into what's uh. zooming into where this thing happened? >> Right. That um the red triang or the red. rectangle there is where the cartridge. cases are located um in the near the.

intersection. I think the closest piece. of evidence was 60 uh 60 60 feet away. from um Koval and they were out in the. travel lane um probably 14 15 feet away. from the south curb. Okay. So my. question is to you very specific u you. mentioned a little bit ago about um uh. what potentially would be a white. Cadillac traveling north on Audrey or. Aubrey. Can you just you could step up. uh Dean if you want and just actually. point with the you can just point at the.

screen from over there so can see that. >> So this is coal. this is the now the west right used to. be an accent uh and this is the lane. going down here is street that cuts over. it actually cuts south and goes all the. way over the. initial that we had this light colored. Cadillac to occupied by TV that went.

north on Audrey. So they would have to. with the entourage and everybody had. turned and got this direction. They. would have to follow and then turn right. to go up on there's really no way for. you to get from eastbound uh flamingo at. coal. to northbound without making a U-turn. >> Okay. And just you could stay there for. [clears throat] a second. Um the the. other part here is that I'm just. pointing again with my pen and that. would be the area where you found and. located the bullets. Uh the cartridge.

cases. >> cartridge cases. Yeah. In the eastbound. lane. I think the number three travel. lane um primarily kind of straddling the. lane there a little bit um right here. before you get to. >> Now if you can describe for us the. street. So on that street right there. and I'm just pointing to the um the part. of Flamingo that's uh I guess west of. Koval and then before or between Aubrey. and and Kovalt this area here. >> Is there a concrete divider that's in.

that area? >> There was not a concrete divider. No. And I think now it's like those uh. yellow plastic cones that are every. every two feet now separating it when. you come up because. on eastbound flamingo, there's two uh. two left turn lanes to go north on. Cobalt, three travel lanes, and then a. right turn lane to go south on. So, for. instance, if cars are going to make a. Uturn and turn around and follow, like. say for instance, the black BMW, right?

The other cars could just basically just. make a left-hand turn and go right back. They don't have to go in procession. around and keep going. Fair. >> Yeah, I would. Well, now they would be. hitting all those yellow cones. So, I. don't know. Um I don't think back then I. think you Yeah, you could probably just. just right there. I mean, you know, it's. a violation of the law. >> It is. >> Yes, you could certainly make a U-turn. >> because um my understanding is those. cones that you're talking about are will. be actually on coal uh to prevent people.

like I guess it's like to stop uh. traffic from merging or having too much. lanes or traffic in that area. Do you. recall that? I know all the yellow cones. are because I took um a fellow Marshall. to the airport yesterday and the lady in. the box actually took me north on Cobalt. to pass that intersection. So I was able. to see um all the yellow plastic. permanent cones that are there dividing. the north or east and westbound traffic. >> Right. But at the time your recollection.

back in 1996, you don't know if there. were cones up at that point. >> I don't know there wasn't. I know there. wasn't. And there wasn't a jersey wall. So, I think the item could just make the. turn. There might have been a curve. >> There might have been a cement curve, but I don't see that in the photo and I. don't have an independent recollection. of it. >> Gotcha. So, those cars are, you know, if. we're we're trying to envision the BMW. getting shot at and at some point it's. making a U-turn. There's some discussion. about rims on the vehicle being messed.

up because of possible. And then as it's. going down, the other cars would have. just either just turned around and made. a left immediate left. >> I know because I we never went to to. Harmon Boulevard. >> You I have no further questions. Thank. you. >> Anything further, Mr. Jac. >> briefly? I don't know if you retired on a Friday, but. if you uh knew when you retired on.

Friday that on Monday you were going to. be right back there as a cold case. investigator, you wouldn't feel or would you have felt. the need to finish that Friday before. you got in the limousine? >> I think I would have been okay to let it. go. Yeah, that have been all right and. uh skipped that part. >> Yeah. Let me ask you this. Had there been at. least one case case with you and I in. fact where there was never an officer's. report that was able to be completed. Debbie Flores Nias and um is there any.

requirement that there be an officer's. report created? No. Again, officer's. report is not evidence, right? It's just. kind of a guideline to go through uh the. case file itself. there was in the case. that we're talking about a case. management form that went all the way. through the investigation. So, it really. wasn't necessary to get uh to put it on. a trial and get a successful conviction. >> Um you mentioned as well that old case.

files uh you've looked at, you said case. files from before you were even born. >> Yes. Um, uh, you don't know if all of. the reports that were ever generated. were in that file or not in that file. when you get the case. Correct. >> I could say that we there were some case. files that we pulled that were they. weren't even in three- ring binders. anymore. They were in accordion files. and there was definitely uh there were.

definitely things missing right over. time. Um the frustrating part of coal. cases, you know, going to pull evidence. and seeing that it had long been. destroyed, wasn't even available. anymore, which shouldn't happen. Um but. it sometimes does. And so, you know, you're trying to piece together the case. even without some pieces of evidence. that you think it's crucial. >> So despite not having maybe everything. that the original detectives have, you. don't just give up. You still try and. solve the crime. >> Exactly. Well, you go redo it, right? I.

mean, if there's indication, like again, if you got a cocktail napkin with a name. and a date of birth on there, but you. don't know how that was involved, then. you you know, if that person's still. still around, you know, you you go. interview them. And you know, we ended. up doing in cold case, we ended up doing. a bunch of traveling to where we would. go do those interviews and sit down with. people and, you know, they have I mean, being being a witness to or being. involved or even connecting remotely to. a violent incident like that or a. murder, that's called a significant.

emotional event, right? You're going to. remember very specific details. I'm sure. in your own life, you had that where. something really significant hits and. you can remember what you were wearing. You can remember the smell. you can. remember where people are standing. So, we were able to just go back and and. redo that um interview and then put that. into the case file even though it was. missing. >> And you sort of said this, but in a lot. of those case files, law enforcement knows what they believe.

to be the story. They just don't have. the witnesses. to present in a courtroom to establish. the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. Oh, no question. I I I would say especially. in during my two years in investigation. in in the gang unit, also the two years. on the RICO task force that we were. involved in, we were dealing with gang. related crimes and there were many cases. where we had something happen with, you.

know, we knew 50 people around, right? There were 50 people there and you start. talking to witnesses and everybody has. the same statement. I heard shots, I ran. and the police stopped me for no reason. Right? So you don't you don't get that. level of cooperation. Um because people, you know, people are afraid, right? People maybe think because they think. gangs might be involved, they don't want. to say anything. They keep it to. themselves and you know, they live with. the fact that they didn't help, right?

But then with Cole case, we were able to. come back to to some of these older. cases where now that you know that young. gang member that might have had 7% body. fat back then and was, you know, in his. prime and was scary is now an older. toothless, you know, um, bulldog, you. know, that's resting in the shade. So. people were not afraid to now come. forward and say, "Yeah, I was there. I. saw it. I know exactly who did it, and I.

can prove it." So, we were able to solve. some cases like that, which was good. >> And you even mentioned the situation. where you read through the file, you're. like, I know who did it. You flew to Toledo. and he confessed. >> Correct. And that can happen in cold. cases as well. >> Yes, it does. Thankfully, >> nothing further. >> Mr. Dejakmore, were you moving to admit. uh exhibits 129 A through G? >> I was. I was going to have her remark. first before I offered. >> Okay. Was there an objection to the.

admission of them? >> No, your honor. >> Okay. They will be admitted um and you. may mark them. >> Jessica and Mr. St. Questions. >> Okay. >> Sorry, I was thought I was done before. No worries. So, with regards to the um. this uh incident, I want to make sure. I'm clear here. Um you thought you you. thought you had a suspect. Um what did. you do? Send him a letter and say you. need to confess to this crime. I mean, how did how did that work out with the. thing that happened in Toledo? point in. Toledo.

>> Yeah. >> Uh we had put together enough of the. case to to to know, you know, with every. bit of confidence that that it was him, even to the point where we were able to. author an arrest warrant for him. And. then we were in contact with the. correctional facility that he was in. custody and let them know that we wanted. to come out. Um they actually approached. him to let him know that detectives from. Las Vegas want to come out and speak. with you and he agreed. Right. It means.

sitting in custody for, you know, serving life without for actually. killing two people uh a child and and um. uh the child's father. And so, you know, I think probably just for entertainment. value alone, he agreed to to talk to us. and uh we were able to come out there, sit down with him. Um they pulled him. out of his cell obviously and away from. the rest of the inmates and uh we we. talked to him for a couple hours before. lunch and then we broke for lunch and. then after lunch he he he told us he.

did. So you put together information. here in Las Vegas that was all. corroborated, right? I mean you had. information, you had evidence that you. were putting together, right? >> Correct. And all that evidence pointed. towards this particular person, did it? And then at some point you said, you. know, we just don't have enough. We. would want to hear from this guy. himself. And that's when you went out to. Toledo to confront him on it. >> I I think that we would have been able. to get a conviction without him telling. us that he did it, but why not? I mean,

if we if we went there and and he said, "Pound Sam, I'm not going to tell you. like you flew all the way out here and. now I'm not going to tell you that I did. it." I mean it we still would have gone. forward but it certainly you know. bolsters the case to have him say yes I. did it and this is what I did before and. after which is what he was able to do. >> Right. So in the in the case you were. developing you had corroborating. evidence here in Las Vegas and this was.

just the final. >> you know cherry on top to actually hear. him say the words that yeah I did it. >> Agreed. Now um the corroborating. evidence you had here though was your. investigation. And I would assume they. had some physical evidence, witnesses, that kind of thing to it. >> Okay. Um, and your testimony here right. now is literally you don't necessarily. even need his. his confession, you could have just done. it without. >> Yes. Now, in addition to that, um obviously.

if um if you didn't have those things, you did, you suspected somebody, but you. don't have DNA, you don't have. fingerprints, you don't have an. eyewitness, you don't have surveillance. video, you don't have anything at all. that would tie that person to whatever. the crime you believe has occurred, that. would mean at that particular point, you. don't have it. Right. >> I would agree with that. Now, in. addition to that, your testimony here is. um and I want to make sure I'm clear, you were a gang um person before, and. those field interview cards would be.

helpful if you were looking into a. potential crime where someone is accused. of the crime. Like, look at those field. interview cards, right? >> Field interview cards are very valuable. Did I worked bike patrol before uh the. gang unit and we filled out probably. more FI cards, field interview cards, than a lot of the gang detectives did. um that got me balling told to test for. gangs. And so um yeah, field interview. cards are very very valuable piece of. information because you're contacting.

somebody in a non-threatening, non-arrest, non-custodial. environment and they're and they're. telling you they're giving you. information that you're able to. document. >> And if you can explain to the jury a. little bit what a field in card is. So. that like was talking to about that stop. that we were on before the code red was. called. So we were talking to some gang. members that were gathered out in in a. neighborhood that we were familiar with. with gang members that we were familiar. with and um so each time they're.

contacted. um we would do a field interview card. little small you know 3x5 card. This is. a this is a rights card but it's about. just like this. it's white and it has. all of their pertinent information. Um, name, date of birth, all you know, height, weight, eye color, all those. things, where you're contacting them. And there's a narrative portion on the. back. And, um, you know, most of the. gang members in that type environment. would say, "Yeah, hey, I'm, you know, I'm 18th Street." I'm like, "Whatever,

you know, for life. I'm 18 Street for. life." So, you document that. That's. 18th Street for life. because that's. maintained in the what you've heard the. gang file for a period of time until. that person says no I'm not I don't I. don't affiliate with them I'm not stop. I'm not doing that anymore I'm away from. it and then if that stays consistent for. a certain amount of time then that. person's no longer in the in the gang. file. >> is every time that that person comes in. contact with law enforcement that a new.

gener a new card is generated because. it's a physical thing. >> a new card is gen well pretty I've. always did. It documented my stop. It. documented my activity. It documented. our work. It documented me and I would. plus it starts the time clock every. time. Right. So every time that person. admits, every time that person's in in. the the company of other known gang. members and then it starts that that. time clock so that they stay in in the. gang file until that until that time.

expires. So you want it you want the. clock to continue to start over. >> Okay. And just one last question, and I. hate hammering the head out of this. report stuff, but in terms of the um. example that was given to you by the. state, they said, "Well, you know, if. you retire and then you go into cold. case, you can continue on with the. investigation if it's a cold case, right?". >> I would. Yeah, definitely. >> Um how about the district attorney's. office? Um you're an investigator. district attorney's office. Does the. district attorney's office have a cold.

case team? I we didn't have anybody. assigned to us at the time at the time. because I left in 23, January of 23. At. the time, we didn't have anybody that. was catching our cold cases. specifically. So, I I couldn't tell you. one way or the other. Right. So, you. were testifying that Metro has a cold. case unit to which if you're a detective. with homicide and you want to take a. case with you, you could have done that, right? >> Certainly. But with regards to taking. your case as a [snorts] homicide. [clears throat] detective and now.

working for the for the district. attorney's office, that's not how that. typically works. >> I I wouldn't know how they they function. with it because I know, you know, we. would do we put a case file together and. we submit that case. It gets approved by. the DA's office and that they're the the. district attorney may recognize certain. things that need to be cleaned up or. need to be followed up on that maybe. wouldn't come back to the detective in. homicide. Because keep in mind, if we're. working a big case, we're still catching. new cases. It's not, you don't catch a.

big case and then all a sudden, you. know, you know, time out, I get to do. this, work this case. You're still. catching new cases. You know, we worked. one weekend in 2003 where we had six. murders in one weekend. So, you were up. going into the weekend and up come up on. rotation coming out of the weekend. because everybody all all the teams. caught a case. And so just for the jury. so they understand, Metro is the police. department. They do investigations. >> Correct.

>> Once you're done with investigation, you. develop a suspect. You then submit that. request to the DA's office and the. district attorney's office for. prosecution. >> Correct. >> The district attorney's office, on the. other hand, do not have investigators. that initiate. cases to be charged. Right. I don't know. how the DA's investigators run their I. know I had contact with them multiple. times over the years. Um. because now we've involve the DA's. office in what we've produced because we.

we seek the truth. DA's office seeks. justice, right? So there but I know. there may be some incidental things that. come up that an investigator will handle. rather than taking it back to to the. homicide detective for followup. In your. experience throughout law enforcement, uh, even up to currently, have you ever. seen an investigator with the Clark. County District Attorney's Office be the. primary. officer on a case? >> No. No further questions. Thank you,

honor. >> Anything further, Mr. Dma? >> Any questions from the jury? We do have. at least once. Can I have the parties. approach? Except we only have one.

All right. Um, question from our jur. There are eight cones, but only seven. glass bottles and evidence. Was there. another bullet not accounted for in the. envelopes or are there only seven cases. located that or were there only seven. cases located on scene? >> Good question. So, that the cone that. was closest in the picture at the, if. you remember, I said that was a bullet. fragment. So underneath that cone was just a piece. of a bullet mostly just the lead and so. the bullet fragment plus the seven.

cases. >> Any follow-up questions based on that? Mr. Deco, >> detective, uh, you opened the seven. casings, correct? >> Yes. >> Showing you with the marked the states. proposed exhibit number 130. These appear to be all the bullets and. fragments that were collected by Dan. Ford. >> That's correct. They were also listed on. the evidence inventory that I've seen a. copy of. I recognize the handwriting and. initial and P number for Danfor.

as. once again there's also a blue stripe on. here. I'm not going to open this one. There's also a blue stripe on here. indicating that they were forensically. tested as well. >> Yes. I'll move to admit 13. >> Any objection? >> No objection, honor. >> Okay. Any other questions that you have? >> No.

>> Uh, Mr. Stamp, questions on this. question? >> No, you're not. >> Okay. Perfect. All right. Uh, you are. free to go. >> Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, at. this time, we are going to take our. lunch break. During this recess, you are. admonished not to talk or converse. amongst yourselves or with anyone else. on any subject connected to the trial or. read, watch or listen to any report or. commentary on the trial of any person. connected with this case by any mean of. information including without. limitation, newspaper, television, the. internet and radio or form or express. any opinion on any subject connected.

with the trial until the case is. submitted to you. We'll be in recess. until 1:45. >> So 145, guys.

All right. uh jury sectioned. Anything. we need to address outside the presence? Hang on. From the state, >> we'll be in recess. Thanks, guys.

We're back on record in state versus. Davis, which is C377407.

Uh, is there anything we need to address. outside the presence before we bring the. jury back in? >> No. >> Okay, sounds good. Let's bring the jury. in. Please rise for the jury, guys. The funny thing is if you stand up with. one of these screens on, you can't read.

[snorts].

>> [snorts].

[snorts]. >> The party stipulates to the brothers of. the jury. >> Yes, sir. >> Yes, sir. >> You may be seated.

>> Right. Welcome back from lunch, ladies. and gentlemen. We're still in the. state's case and chief state. Uh, who's. your next witness? James McDonald. >> McDonald or McDonald? >> McDonald.

You do this for the testimony you're. about to give in this action shall be. the truth, the whole truth, and nothing. but the truth. So, help be God. >> Yes. >> You may be seated. >> May I please have you state and spell. your first and last name for the record? >> James McDonald. J A M- S MC D O N A L D. >> Thank you, Mr. McDonald. Uh, Mr. Cole,

whenever you're ready. >> Thank you, honor. Mr. McDonald, it's. fair to say that you're here because of. a court order. Is that right? >> Correct. >> Um, that you didn't volunteer to come or. anything like that. >> Not at all. >> Okay. Um, uh, but you were instructed by. a court that you had to attend? >> Yes. >> Um, I want to ask you about September. 7th, 1996. Were you at club 662? >> Yes. >> What was club 662? >> It was a club that you bought and we.

operated it uh when he opened. I was. head of security. uh through the neighborhood. Um just a. place to go and hang out. >> Uh did the number 662 mean anything? Well, to the new guys, that was part of. our neighborhood 662. >> Okay. >> Mov. >> Okay. Mob. And when you say Mo, um, there used to be, uh, before uh, Apple.

iPhones and those types of things when. you had to have to have landlines and. you press numbers. >> 662, there would be letters under those. numbers and M and O would be under six. Is that right? Correct. >> And B would be under two. >> Yes. >> So 662 would be M O B. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um. was some when you talk about Suge, are. you talking about Suge Knight? >> Yes, sir. >> Uh how do you know Shu? >> Uh he lived in my neighborhood.

>> Um and is that in Compton? >> Yes. >> Um. when you were at Club 662, you said you. were head of security. >> Yes. Um, was somebody by the name of. Reggie Wright Jr. there with you? >> Not at that time. >> No. >> No. >> When When was he with you? >> I I got out of prison in 1988. Shield came and got me in 1988, like 4. days from from coming home.

Started another company, uh, Burnhill Records. Then Death Row. Records came. Um, soon as Death Row was launched, Reggie. came a few months after that. >> Okay. So, we're talking about the start. of Death Row Records. Reggie wasn't part. of Death Row Records initially, but you. were. >> Yes. >> And then Suge Knight, uh, was he the. boss of Death Row Records? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, was Suge from the same.

neighborhood. >> from the MA? >> Yeah. Um, I wouldn't say SH was. uh he was guilty by association. >> Okay. >> He wasn't from the neighborhood. He. lived in the neighborhood. Uh, we looked. at him as somebody from the. neighborhood. When he started death row. and start to recruit. us, then yes, he's he he from the hood.

So, I guess there's a difference between. living in a certain on a certain street. versus being from the hood. >> Yeah. >> And how would you describe that. difference? >> Um, I look at it, you have three different. type of. friends in the neighborhood. You got. gang members, you got gang me gang. bangers, and you got men that just. guilty by association from being living.

in that area. >> Okay. And can you tell me what the. difference between a gang member and a. gang banger is? >> A gang member hangs out. A gang banger. handles his business. Put in work. Do do. what the gang did what the gang do. >> Um, and what was your role with uh death. row? I was I was the guy that if. something happened, she would would. have you uh take care of that. Um.

like Snoop Dog trial, there was issues. up there. I was sent up there to make. sure those problems didn't happen again. And are those problems and I'm not. asking you to get specifics, but are are. those problems meaning issues with other. people who might be gangbanging or might. be trying to threaten folks at that. type? >> Right. Yes. >> And you are somebody that Suge relied on. to be able to protect his um roster of.

music artists and other things like. that. >> Correct. >> Um and after you were asked to help out. with Snoop, did Snoop have any other. problems? No, we didn't have one issue. at court. >> Now, um I'm going to ask you, uh fast. forward a little bit to uh were you. familiar with the Southside Compton and. Crips? >> Yes. >> Uh would you say they were somebody you. were in alliance with or a rivalry with?

>> Rival. >> Okay. Um and would sometimes those uh. that rivalry get violent? Anytime you're dealing with gang, the. gang life is going to be violent at any. given time. >> Um, are you familiar with somebody by. the name of somebody that went by the. name of Tupac Shakur? >> Yes. >> Uh, how are you familiar with Tupac? >> He was assigned to death row. >> And when he was signed with Death Row, um, was he also uh, would he also hang.

out with you guys? >> Uh, he hung with my brother now. Yeah. >> Not me. >> Who is your brother? uh out of McDonald. Bry. >> Do you went by Buntry? >> Yeah. Okay. >> Um now during this time, is it fair to. say that Mr. Shakur um had an issue with. rappers from the east coast? >> I think Tupac inherit the be between SH. and P. >> Okay. That was your perspective of it. That. >> that's that's all it was. And we all.

fell. the some of us fell victim to it because. we allowed ourselves to be a part of the. the BS should I say and that was a. situation between. uh record companies not not gangs. So. technically it wasn't our business, but. when you had. 20 men just fresh out of prison and.

didn't have a way of getting the things. they wanted, getting a paycheck from SH, we did almost anything and everything to. get that paycheck. >> Um, now was there another gang that was. associated with Bad Boy Records? the. East Coast record company that Puffy. had? >> The only one I know of is Southids. >> and did that escalate the tension. between Mob Pyu and Southside?

>> At the time we wasn't. there was no at war, no it was peace and. when. the two record companies got into it, Bad Boy went to KPDM. and SH came to us. So that intertwined. everything and we uh yes we had issues. >> Um do you recall any instances where. that you were at where there were issu.

those issues manifested itself in terms. of violence? >> Are you serious? >> Don't ask me that right here. Um, I I. [snorts] can say that on both sides. when when each neighborhood met each. other, there could have been. there was a lot of tension. I'd say. that. >> Okay. Um, now I want to talk a little. bit about September 7th, 1996.

>> Were you in Las Vegas on September 7th. of 1996? >> Yes. Why were you in Las Vegas. >> to to run the security at 662? Uh we were having issues. with with individuals that said that. they were coming. for whatever reason they was coming for. and to come to 662. My job was to not. let that happen.

>> Similar to the kind of security you. apply uh you were asked to apply in the. whole Snoop Dog situation. It didn't have nothing to do with Snoop. Dogg. It was everybody came. Well, Shield Bunchingham, his entourage, everybody went for the fight. My job and. all of my people were there to to make. sure nothing funny happened at 662. So,

we were the fall guys. So, if something. happened, we was the one that's going to. go to jail for it. prepared to do that. So nobody else was gonna come up there. and disrupt it in that manner. But if if. anybody remember that night, it was so. many metro and everybody there. No, neither side could have did anything. So. it was calm. It was peaceful. >> So when you say there's so much metro. there, you're talking about so much. metro at Club 662. >> It was police all over the place.

Um, now you said you were there to be on. the lookout for uh something. What were. you. >> You said I was on the lookout for. nothing. >> I apologize. You were there uh you were. there uh in order to ensure there. weren't any problems. Is that fair? >> To make sure everything was good. >> And because you had heard there might be. some issues, >> correct? >> And what were the issues that you were. concerned about? uh individuals coming. up there creating. a issue we was having with with.

different sides of from what. with Crips period. >> Yeah. So you were worried about Crips. Not worried. I I'm sorry. You were uh. you were there providing security to. ensure that Crips did not initiate any. violence at Club 66. >> Not just Crips, that nothing would. happen. >> Okay. >> Period. >> Okay. And then when you were there, uh, was Reggie Wright Jr. with you that. night at September 7th, 1996 at Club.

662? >> Yes. >> What was Reggie doing there? >> Reggie's job was to watch me and make. sure I don't get in trouble. Everybody knew how I was. >> So Reggie, everybody else went to the. fights. Reggie was there to watch me. with the people that was there. And I'm guessing that you were not the. only person there making sure there. wasn't any problems at Club 66.

>> Positive. It was 30 45 rooms there. >> And again, that was to make sure that. there wasn't any violence that occurred. at Club 66. Um. when uh at some point that night, do you. learn that Tupac or Suge had been shot. >> that night? Yes. >> Can you tell me how you learn about. that? >> Well, people was coming back and was. explaining that Tupac and SH just got. shot. Everybody was in a uproar. A lot.

of people start leaving trying to get. over there on Kov. um we couldn't leave. because. we didn't paid to do this here. Um it. wasn't too long after people start. coming back like Haron. came back and went to the hospital. The. majority of the people was coming was. leaving and then coming back because. that night they said Tupac was going to. be all right. And even Shield came back.

with a little bandage on his head and uh. we thought everything was good. People. kept partying. >> So, and when Suge came back, you said he. had a bandage on his head, but he. >> I mean the dude said he got shot, but he. was grazed a little scar. A little scar, but nothing penetrated. >> Some people would describe being shot in. the head even slightly. >> Describe that that I mean, you're wrong. All right. Um,

so, uh, when you, uh, when you, uh, find. out, well, let me ask you this. Were was. Reggie with you when you found out that. Tupac and Suge were, uh, shot? >> Yes. >> And did it appear to you in any way that. Reggie Wright Jr. was coordinating, uh, the murder of Tupac Shakur? Um, impossible. I. >> mean, and I say this because you're.

aware that there have been some. conspiracy theories that Reggie Wright. Jr. is responsible for the murder of. Tupac. >> and and and it's so not true. His father. was implicated and his father has. something to do with it. Reggie Wright. used to be a police officer and and here. again, I've been knowing Reggie Wright. over 50 years. his daddy as a police. officer. patrolling my neighborhood. He done took. me to jail many times when I messed up. Um.

if if if Reggie killed Tupac, then death. row is over with. Tupac was the the money source. Tupac. was was that guy in death row. So it's. Reggie would have had a problem if. people would have did that. And Suge I I. truly believe SH would have opened his. mouth if Reggie betrayed him like that. So. people say what they want to say.

[clears throat]. >> Um. after that night, do you stick around in. Las Vegas or do you go back to Compton? Well, I stayed in Vegas and we left that. morning because we knew it was going we. was going to have neighborhood issues. and everybody left and went back to the. country. >> Why were you thinking you might have. neighborhood issues? Well, you guys need. some um.

the issues that we was having was heated. and Compton was on fire at the time and. things were happening and. me personally standing in Vegas wasn't. worth it. That man in the hospital, it's. time to go and and protect your home. front and be prepared for whatever. happened there. You know what I'm. saying? Like the other side was being. prepared and was prepared to do things.

because. Orlando got beat up in there. And that's. something you don't tolerate. So you was. going to get some repercussion from that. and everything else that was going on. So living this life, you got to be. ready. If you not, you might as well. just lay down. Now, you weren't there for the uh. beating of Orlando Anderson at the MGM, were you?

>> No, I was. >> Yeah. Like we talked earlier, you were. at 662. >> Yeah. >> Um but uh. do you are you aware of why Orlando was. targeted? >> I'm aware of a lot of things. um things that was going on. People ain't talked about it in 30. years. Today ain't one of them. Um.

[snorts] I I don't mean to be funny, but. here's the thing. A lot of a lot of. things happened that night. A lot of. things happened weeks and weeks after. that night. me or anybody else bringing up the dead. is wrong. Uh, a lot of people got hurt. behind. this situation in itself. Um,

living the life in and how we lived in. Compton, uh, is one thing. You bring back all of the guys that made. it like me. I'm 61 years old now. To to. rehash and relive this situation again. I I told every attorney in here that. tried to get me to come here. You better. treat me as a house to witness. And I. think that's where I'm about to go now. cuz you asking me questions. I can't.

answer those questions. >> Okay. Well, let me ask you this then. I'm not going to speak on Orlando. Um, let me ask you something about yourself. That was a rumor that Tupac had uh. knocked you out one time. >> I'd have killed him. >> That would have been your response if. that happened. >> Yeah. I'm being honest with you and. everybody else. I said it on my podcast. show. Him, Suge, and my brother. I'd. shot all three of them if he touched me. >> Why? >> That's how I was living. >> Why is that? >> That's that's what I was back then. And.

so is it fair to say that your. reputation and your standing in the. neighborhood would require uh you to do. something if you're going to get punked. by somebody like Dupac? >> You don't have a choice or or you you. can't be there. >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. [clears throat] We. they're doing some we're doing some side. talking. >> No, that that's my fault. Uh uh I asked. uh would that being in the life that you. were if somebody like Tupac is punking. you like by punching you in the face.

something like that you would have to. retaliate or you would lose your uh. place in the neighborhood. >> You would have to go back home and fight. everybody that called you a punk. You. you would have to go um there's some. rules that you roll with and some rules. you just got to handle. certain things. need to be dealt with, adjusted, living that life. And when I was living. that life, it wasn't no if ends or buts. It wasn't no, oh, you get a pass. No,

out of shot of you to be honest. Um, so then you had mentioned, I'm not going. to ask you to go into any specifics, but. you had mentioned that after after what. happened here in Las Vegas, there were. issues between the neighborhoods. Um, how long did that last for? Was it like, all right, one day we're good, everything's done, or did it last for. longer than that? No, it was it was. tension and air for quite a long time. until I guess both sides and he might.

agree just said let that go because. it really was an RB. This was between Su. Knight and QPD and. people put themselves in situations like. myself. I ain't I ain't I'm guilty as. everybody else like myself. I put myself. in the situation to protect something. and somebody that didn't have nothing to. do with me. I did it for a paycheck. I.

did it on suggest because I'm older now. I get it. But we did things for all the. wrong reasons at that time in them days. >> [snorts]. >> Uh, your honor, state will pass a. witness.

>> Okay. Cross- examination. Mr. Sim, >> sir, have you ever met me? >> Excuse me. >> Have you ever met me before? >> No. >> Have you ever spoken to the district. attorneys prior to your testimony here. today? >> Once. Um, and is that the what you're. referring to is the time that you told. them like, hey, any attorney here is. better to treat me as hostile because. >> Yeah, I told them I didn't have nothing. to do with it. >> Now, couple questions for you, sir. This.

is more for clarification. So, on the. night of the murder, you were working as. the head of security for 662. >> Yes. >> Um, explain for us a little bit about. the club. Was was that Shook's club or. was that somebody else's club? >> SH to mine them. >> Okay. And um when you were there as head. of security, were you there uh had you. worked there as head of security prior. to this particular night? >> Uh we did an event there once before. Yes, same thing.

>> Okay. And on this particular night, was. this was this an event like a like some. type of uh uh fundraiser or something. for police officers or anything like. that? You recall what the event was for? >> We wouldn't have been there. >> Okay. >> No. >> The What was the reason for the event? >> It was Mike Tyson fight. Tyson was. coming back. Tupac was supposed to. perform like other people and we was. there for that. >> Okay. Can you describe for us how big. the club is so that we can.

>> 30 years ago I. >> a little bit bigger than this room. >> So it's a it's a it's relatively it's. not like a twotory. No, it's small. >> And in terms of the um the club itself, you were there and you were you were. sharing with us that there were other. people that were there. >> Yes. >> Um uh law enforcement as well as uh I. don't know people from your side of. town. >> Oh, law enforcement was outside. They. the metro would say, "Why y'all put in.

my mouth?". >> Sure. >> They were outside. >> We were on the inside with no law. enforcement mingling with us. So, as far as you know, law enforcement. wasn't hired by Reggie Wright to provide. additional security. >> No, this was Metro posted up all over. the place. >> And so, they were there specifically. just to like what? Harass or just send a. warning or what? >> No, they were there like when you have. events in Las Vegas, everybody know you.

going to see Metro here, here, every. block. >> Yeah. >> They was posted up, which they do all. the time. But you're telling me that as. head of security, you do not know or you. don't believe that Reggie Wright hired. the Metro officer? >> I know for a fact he didn't hire the. Metro Police. Okay. >> Do you know how many people were on the. payroll that night from your security. team? >> Well, y'all do y'all do paperwork. different than we did. [laughter].

Our paperwork was getting cash money. My. paperwork was what they call under the. table. We had at least 30 40 of my. homeboys there. Reggie Wright Jr. and. his his security his company the people. work for him didn't have nothing to do. with what SH paid us for for working. So. that was two different entities. Reggie. and SH. the homies was there for SH night.

Reggie Wright hired his companies to. watch over shield night people, >> right? >> So his security. did. like the the right thing. My security. did what they ain't going to do. >> You get what I'm saying? >> I get it. >> The police going to walk you out of. there. We going to drag you out of. there. >> So it was a difference, >> but not on the same paper. Sure. And.

once again, the intent was to protect. 662, right? To protect the club, protect. the patriots that were going to go. there, that kind of thing. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Now, um, in terms of your, um, knowledge of what happened on that. night, fair to say you weren't present. when the shots had rung out. >> No, I went there. >> Okay. And your testimony is that you had. heard from other people initially that, hey, Tupac had been shot. >> Yes. And you had thought maybe other. people were maybe relieved thinking. like, okay, he's going to it's not that.

big of a deal. He's going to be okay. >> That's that's what came back to 662. People that went to the scene and. everybody said Tupac was talking. So. everybody came back to the club saying. he going to be all right. So people just. went back to, you know, me. >> right now. In in terms of the um. that night, you go back to Compton. You. live in Compton.

>> Yes. >> You still live in Compton? >> No. >> Uh at the time you live in Compton. You. go back to Compton and you tell us that. um there was a lot of tension. Um. was there Can you describe that for us. when you went back in terms of what kind. of tension we're talking about? You sure. you want me to answer that? >> Um, >> is it going to be graphic? >> No, I ain't gonna I got to raise the. word in it, but you asking me a. question. I don't And and what I. explained to them, I don't want to send.

him to prison. >> Sure. >> Even though we don't like each other. >> Sure. >> I don't want to send you to you to. prison. So that's why I'm I'm I'm here. where I'm at and the way I am because. I I changed my life. I'm I'm raising my grandkids, teaching them never to be like their. papa. And here I am. explaining to people what I used to be. And I'm not proud of that. I'm not proud.

of that at all. And you asking me. questions that can can hurt him. And I. like I told them, I'm trying to avoid to. answer the questions that they might. look at me and say something is wrong. >> Well, let me let me let me put this way. Let me help you with this. >> Okay. >> So, these people right here, what they. want to know from you is did you see who. shot Tupac? >> I told you no. >> Correct. So outside of that question,

right, the next question I'm asking you. is when you went back to Compton, was it. like a a Southside crib shoots a pyro. blood and then a pyro blood shoots a. southside crib? Is that the tension that. we're talking about? >> Do I answer this? >> That's a straightforward question. That's a yes or no answer. >> When Okay. >> Did you see that? when when when I was a. part of that like I was a part of that. and and I was no because you asking.

something that's going to hurt this dude. and. >> when I when when Okay, let me let me. stop and once again I want to I want to. ask. >> when we when we got back to. >> okay. >> it was a gang war. People were getting hurt. >> Okay, >> people was being sought. People was. being people were looking for certain. individuals from his neighborhood. >> Okay. >> As well they did mine. >> Okay. >> But Orlando, him and certain other people were being.

assaulted because people wanted to kill. them. >> Sure. >> Were they the only ones that they wanted. to kill? >> Am I the only one up in this in here? >> No, they weren't the only one. is his. neighborhood in particular, >> but they were the main subjects of of of. of a gang war. They was in the middle. such as me. >> So, you're telling us that people back. home somehow had some type of. information that said that that guy is a.

bunch of other people who were involved. in what? >> In the murder of Tupac. >> Okay. But my question to you, >> my question. stop. >> Can you focus on me for a second, sir? Yeah, I will. >> And I apologize. I just want to make. sure that we're clear. Okay. For these. people, in terms of that information, none of those people were there, right? >> What people we speaking on? The people. that was already in the neighborhood or. the people that lost left Las Vegas that.

same night Tupac was shot to go home, bear their arms, and go to somebody. else's neighborhood to look for. somebody. >> They had to pay it back. So once again, my question to you is is. that the information that I'm asking. about is the people that back home, what. you're saying were eyewitnesses to this. >> How could people back home be eyewitness. to something that happened in Vegas? No, that's not what I'm saying. >> The people that were here in Los Listen. to my question, sir. The people that. were here in Las Vegas, you're telling. me were eyewitnesses to what happened.

and went back home? Is that what you're. telling me? >> I'm telling you the people that was at. 66. >> Answer my question, sir. Yes or no? >> You can't answer that without a without. a what you call. You trying to tell me. to say something that you're not going. to understand if you let me explain to. you. >> No. Answer my question. >> I'm not answering nothing. I don't know. what you're talking about. >> Okay. >> Okay. Mr. McDonald, focus for a second. >> Oh, I am focused. Very. >> focus on this. My question to you is. this. You didn't know what happened that. night cuz you weren't there. >> I was at 662.

>> Right. Do you know who was that was. there? >> I know everybody that was there. >> Okay. Like who? >> Talk to your lawyer, man. This dude is. tripping. I'm not going to explain that. I I can't. I can't answer that. >> Okay, let me ask you this next question. then. You are telling us that people. back in Compton for some reason knew. what happened here in Las Vegas. >> A a phone conversation. People found out.

when people left Las Vegas the same. night Tupac was shot, went straight back. to con, it only take two, three and a. half hours to get home. >> Sure. >> Yes. It was did it wasn't a problem for. people to find out what happened. No problem at all. >> Um they got on their phones, they text. people, they let them know what happened. here on the night of the shooting. Yeah, they had they had walkie-talkies. They. had all kind of phones. They had ways to.

call people to say whatever. But when. people left Las Vegas that same night. after they found out and got in their. cars and went home because it was a. situation. Pac was shot. >> Retaliation is a mug. Come on, man. You. got like like it was for real. For real. All of this was for real. Now, the night. of the U shooting, did you have a. walkie-talkie, a next thing or something. like that? >> No. >> Did Reggie, right?

>> I don't know what he had. I don't know. how much money he had in his pocket. I. don't know what he had on his head. >> But you were the head of securities. But. you're telling us you did not have any. right. Uh, rightway security has nothing. to do with the the gang banging security. par whatever you want to call us. They. had nothing to do with us. The phones. that Suge had for certain individuals, they had the phones like the guy that. was supposed to was bodyguard with Tupac. that night. Like some of the guys that.

was at the Tyson fight, like SH Knight, certain individuals had phones. Yes, they did. >> Okay. So, >> all right. I get what you're saying. You're not there, but you're saying. other people were. >> Yes. I'm saying it was a lot of people. there. >> A lot of people were there at the. shooting that took place. >> That was in the entourage. Yes. >> Uh let's see.

Okay. Just one final question. You're. here today and I think the state had. asked this question under a subpoena. You're ordered to be here today, right? >> Yes. Um, in terms of that subpoena, for instance, is that that that's the only reason why. you're here is because of that subpoena. >> I don't have no other reason to be here. >> Yeah. Uh, in order for you to get that. subpoena, you were served that subpoena. back in California. >> Yes. >> By a police officer. >> I don't know. He He wasn't in uniform. >> Okay. And that order required you to go.

to a court in California. >> I had to go to court in Victor Bill. >> And then that court in California said. you have to show up here. And in that. court, I cussed them out and told them, "You can't make me do nothing." Right? And in that court, they told me that I. would be in attempted court. Me raising. my grandkids, I'm not going to put my. grandkids in the car. I move somewhere. so y'all can't find me. So, all that. running and living a different life, I. ain't doing it. So, I agreed to come.

And I, like I explained to everybody in. here, you ask me something, I'm going be. honest about. You ask me something I. don't want to talk about, you're gonna. have a problem. Treat me as a hostile. witness. You're not gonna talk to me and. tell me as a grown man what I have to do. up here. I'm not going to send him to. prison. You are. >> So the accusation now is because of the. fact that we're trying to ask you. questions, you're blaming it on me. >> You you asking me questions. If if I. just like answer your questions, we we.

going to have a problem in here. misunderstanding and and you're asking. me something that. wouldn't be good for him, >> right? And once again, I just want to. look, we're just trying to figure out. who shot Tupac. You're telling us that. you care the scene. That's all I want to. know. At the end of the day, that's it, right? >> Was I in the entourage when Tupac got. shot? No. >> Okay. Nothing else, right? >> I was in 62. I mean, I ain't That ain't.

hard. That I mean that's easy map. >> No further question. >> Anything further state? >> Jes. >> All right, got one more phase and then. we'll let you out of here. >> Okay, >> ladies and gentlemen of the jury, any. questions for this witness? Seeing no hands? Oh, we do have one. Okay, hang on one second.

>> [clears throat]. >> All right, I have a question for you. from one of our jurors if you can answer.

it. Did Reggie Wright Jr. instruct. security to not have firearms the night. of the fight? >> To be honest, I don't know if Reggie. Wright told his people or the police. officers not to have guns and I don't. know why he shouldn't tell us cuz we had. ours and that's the honest truth. >> All right. Uh, any followup based on. that state? >> No, your honor. >> Defense. I just want to clarify what the. witnesses said. You're telling us that. you had guns that night? >> Yeah.

>> I just want to know. >> But you had guns that night, right? >> Yes, we did. >> All right. Thank you. >> All right. See, I know you don't want to. be here, but thank you for coming out. >> Okay. Can I say something? I want to. apologize to everybody, but I I I find. this kind of funny and and and. truthfully, what you going through, brother, is what. you going through. I didn't want to be a. part of that. and I'm not a part of. that. So I I I appreciate everything and. I apologize to all of you guys.

>> Okay. Thank you, Mr. McDonald. You are. free to go. >> State's next witness. >> Yes. Say calling Reggie Wright Jr. All right, Jordan's investigating the. burning smelling.

the burning smell. >> maybe. [clears throat]. If anybody's smelling something burning, it's a burnt bagel from back there. So, don't worry. We're all. >> right.

Are we able to. Is this good? >> I think he was leaving like that to. swear and then we'll turn them off. >> Okay, perfect. Got it. All right. We'll. have you swear then, Mr. Right. Raise. your right hand. >> Raise your right hand. >> You do so for the testimony you're about. to give in this action shall be the. truth, the whole truth, and nothing but. the truth. to help you, God. >> Yes, ma'am. >> May I please have you state and spell. your first and last name for the record? >> Regginald Liurn Wright Jr.

R E G I N A L D. Liurn is L I L B and. boy U R N right is W R I G HD and I'm a. junior. >> Thank you, sir. Whenever you're ready, Mr. Paul, you may proceed. Okay, great.

Thank you. >> Good afternoon, sir. >> Good afternoon, sir. >> Do you mind if I call you Reggie? >> Of course. >> Okay. Um, sir, where did you grow up? >> I grew up in the city of Compton,

California. I was born and raised um. there until about the age of 19. >> And who is your father? Who's your. father? >> My father is Reginald Wright senior. >> And where did your father work? >> He worked for the city of Compton Police. Department. >> And at some point had he uh risen up the. ranks of the uh Compton Police. Department to become a lieutenant is it. of gangs? >> Eventually captain, but. >> during most of his career was a. lieutenant. Um,

where did you uh did you ultimately. become a police officer yourself? >> Yes, sir. >> When was that? >> I was a civilian jail jailer from 1985. until 1989 and then I became a police. officer from 1989. until I retired in 1996. >> And why did you retire? I received a. medical uh retirement for a uh I have. vascular vascular necrosis in my right. ankle but that's not why I'm like this. this is a result of co.

um. after you left for left the compton PD. or took your medical retirement. um where did you next work? Well, to be. honest, my last year or two of of being. a police officer, I was employed as def. uh head of security and also had a. private security company. >> Now, was that something that was called. like moonlighting that officers would.

moonlight when they were off duty? >> Yes, sir. >> Can you explain to us what moonlighting. means when you're off duty? Well, moonlighting is pretty much just working. off duty on your off duty hours, working. for different companies. I worked for. several companies. It wasn't just that. row. I worked for choking companies. doing security, worked at nightclub, the. Raiders club. Uh that was inside of the. Compton Hotel. Uh. worked sees. this. This extra money on the side for.

all duty. >> Compton PD wasn't paying good. >> Guess I was a little young and greedy. >> Yeah. Um and and then at some point you. said one of the jobs that you had was. moonlighting for Death Row. Is that. right? >> Yes, sir. >> And can you tell us what Death Row is? >> Death Row Records is a record company uh. that was based out of Beverly Hills, California. And um yeah. >> And who ran Death Row Records at that. time? a gentleman that I actually uh.

grew up with uh in elementary school, junior high, and high school by the name. of Marian Suge Knight. >> And when you say Suge, is that what he. would go by? >> I call him Suge. Um. so after you retired, did you Well, actually, let me take a. step back. As part of your role as a. police officer in Compton, were you. familiar with the different. neighborhoods and the members of. different neighborhoods?

>> Yes, sir. >> Was that part of your job to know what. areas uh were associated with what. gangs? >> Uh, pretty much your job. And like I. said, I started in like 1985, so kind of. got familiar while I was working at. jail. And um, it was something that was. curious to me. uh you know being that my. father was active with with the gangs. and it uh it was something that was. intriguing to me as well. >> Uh so when uh you said you grew up with.

Suge did you grow up in the same. neighborhood that Suge grew up in? >> Yes. Uh about two blocks away. >> Was that considered Ma Pyru territory? >> That's correct sir. >> Were you so when you were growing up. were you familiar with the M Pyru? >> They came on eventually later. It was. really a loser park area. But in guess. when I was about in the uh seventh. grade, which would have been like 19. 78, maybe a little later, 80, uh they.

started calling themselves the Ma Pyu. >> Uh so they were Lutters Park uh Pyu. before and then they transitioned to. being called Ma Pyu. Yeah, we pretty. much divided it. Uh everything uh south. of uh of um Rose Cran was mob and. everything north was um or the other way. around. North was mob and south were uh. lud area of Rose Cran Avenue. >> Were you familiar with a gang called the.

Southside Compton Crips? >> Yes, sir. >> Um why how were you familiar with the. Southside Compton Crips? Well, growing. up in the city of Compton, we all u. played sports together and heard of them. when I was playing at Kelly Park uh. baseball, little league baseball uh at. Compton Northern and then my time in '. 85 as a jailer and then I worked in the. streets of Compton as a police officer. from 1889.

>> Were you familiar by with somebody by. the name that went by the moniker Kefi. D? Well, heard of him. Had no personal. uh interactions with him at that point, especially as law enforcement. Heard of. him, knew of him, but I had no personal. contact with Keith at that time. >> So, he was somebody that was on your. radar, even though you had never met. him, any had personal interaction with. him. >> Heard of him? Uh he was mainly known as. a. well at one point he was known as a. crackhead but then later on he be was.

known as a u a drug dealer and I mainly. was a gang guy and didn't really enforce. on the the level of narcotics he was. working. >> All right. So then you had mentioned. that after um you had left the uh. Compton PD you were you formed a. company. Can you tell us about that? >> Yes sir. >> So in '94 initially I was using a uh.

private security company because I was. kind of in charge for security for death. row called code four. But once I saw I. was about to get retired, I opened up my. own private company called Rightway. Protective Services. And that didn't. really get started until about 1995. But. in '94, I was using another private. company. >> Um, and who were your cl was your client. just death row or did you do anything. else? I had a couple of clients u like. Honda Pasadena which was a u automotive.

dealership. uh a dealership in Compton that that. they were repoing people cars and they. needed a car but my biggest 95% of my. clients was clientele was death row. records. >> Now tell me about that. What were you. doing when you're saying your security. or you're a security company that's. working for Death Row Records or getting. contracted by death row records? What. does that mean? Actually, it grew over a time period in 94. Uh it.

was just mainly this special events. Uh. and then I have a couple of off studio. retired police officers hanging with the. artists in 94 95 96 it got a little. bigger. have security at the office at. the recording studios. Uh driving Mr. Knight around uh. two with uh Mr. Shakur, two with Snoop. Dogg, um Mr. Roas, uh and other artists.

when they went to promotional events. like that. So I could pretty much have. um about 10 officers working a day. And. when you say 10 officers, were the. people that you would contract with or. work for you in this uh in this world, were they largely offduty police. officers? >> Off duty or reserves or retired? >> Um and why is that? >> Because they were able to carry guns. concealed. uh you know where it's not exposed. We.

had exposed uh officers at the studio. but mainly the bodyguards were carried. their weapons concealed. >> and we heard. >> and for the training as well. >> Um we heard from James McDonald just. before you uh hit the stand. Um was it. fair to say that there were uh mob pyu. gang members also around death row. records? >> That's correct. mob lutters west side. generally part rules from the city of.

count. >> and are these u gangs that are generally. associated with the bloods is that right. >> that's correct sir. >> okay and so and the crips are I mean. there well let me ask you crips and. bloods are they alliance or are they. typically in conflict. >> typically in conflict however different. was a a unique situation because one of. their main artists prior to Mr. Shakur. coming to the label was Snoo Dog who was. a known of Long Beach and they all.

seem to had a a great working. relationship prior to my arrival and. even during my arrival. [cough]. >> All right. Um I want to ask you about. um Bad Boy Records. Are you familiar. with a company called Bad Boy Records? >> Yes, sir. I am. >> Um and who to your knowledge was running. Bad Boy Records in the mid 90s? Uh P. Diddy, uh Sean Combmes, Puffy, I don't know what name he's going by.

today. >> All right. So, we'll go with Mr. Combmes. for now. >> Okay. >> Um uh so Mr. Combmes was running uh Bad. Boy Record. And then who would you say. his most prominent artist at that time. was? >> Christopher Wallace. Big Small. >> Okay. And then um was there tension. between Death Low Records and uh Bad Boy. the Bad Boy Entertainment label? >> At what time period? >> Well, you tell me. At any point did uh. tension develop between Bad Boy Records.

and Death Row Records. >> Initially, when I was around in '94, there wasn't. Uh however, um some things. happened. 95 that started um tension between Death. Roll and Bad Boys. Um there's a famous. uh speech that uh Mr. Knight gives at. the Source Awards in uh New York in. 1995. Does that contribute to it? >> Yes, sir. That was August the 6th, 1995. But yes, sir. That that was when he let.

the world know. >> And then um there's another incident. where uh one of Suge's associates was. killed in Atlanta. Is that right? >> That was in September. September 25th, I. believe. That's right. >> [clears throat]. >> And then uh is it fair to say that the p. your perception of uh a security for. Death Row Records was that somebody. associated with Bad Boy Entertainment. may have had something to do with the. murder of one of Shook's friends in. Atlanta. >> That was always the story that was told.

to us. Yes, sir. And so did the is it fair to say by um. 1995. uh the end of at the end of 1995 that. there was tension between significant. tension between bad boy and death row. >> Yes sir. >> And to the extent that even it even. involved violence. with regards to shight's friend being. killed. >> Correct. That was the first time. something escalated to that point. Yes. sir. as security for death row. How did.

you handle this? >> Well, we was always on some type of. tension when it came to death I mean bad. boys or going to the east coast which. Suge and I continuously went to the east. coast cuz he had a lot of business. His. distributor uh the main distributor was. located out there. The big trade like the magazines and. stuff was out there. So, I can honestly. say he and I will and maybe a few of his.

homeboys went out there at least uh once. a week u each once a month, I'm sorry. Uh during that time when Mr. Shakur came. home, we went down a little bit, but we. were still going out there, but we. didn't come go as much. And when you say when Mr. Shakur came. home, at some point did Death Row um. sign Mr. Shakur to its record label. >> Uh there's it's debated how that.

happened. But. >> I'm not asking about the how. I'm just. saying did it happen? >> Yes, sir. Um I believe he came home. October the 12th of 1995. >> Now a as a security for death row. Were. you aware that uh Mr. Shakur was. actually out on a bond, an appeals bond. from prison from New York? >> No, sir. And um the I believe the. allegation has something to do with. sexual misconduct. Is that right?

>> Yeah. >> You don't if you don't know if you don't. know. >> I mean something like that. I don't I. wouldn't call it that but yeah. >> Okay. Whatever it was some kind of some. kind there was some kind of issue. Mr. Shakur is in prison in New York and then. Mr. or then uh Death Row Records posts. an appellet bond for Mr. Shakur. >> They missed some other companies but yes. sir. >> Okay. Um, and then does Mr. Shakur comes. to does he move to where death row is or. does he stay in the New York area or.

where does he go? No, I remember I. actually I picked him up from the. airport, me and one of my security guys. named Kevin Hackey. And uh we took him. immediately uh we went to Monty's. restaurant and ate. Then we went uh to. the studio, the recording studio that. night and from that point on he uh we. got him into a room, took him to the. Peninsula Hotel where he stayed for I. believe a month or two and he got a spot. on Wilshire and later on a house in. Calabasas.

Um were as the head of rightway security. which was contracted by death row. records uh were you responsible for two. security? >> Yes sir. >> How did you handle Tupacore security? >> Uh well I had uh two guys that were. primarily always assigned to him. One. guy was a guy by the name of Kevin Aki. who was with him a lot at at the. beginning. uh. later on towards the end uh a gentleman. by the name of Frank Alexander was the.

one that worked with him as well and. then I will always have additional guys. uh like a Al Giddings is one of them. they'll fill in for him when those guys. wasn't available but generally always. had one security guard with him after. this particular sale came out about May. or June we updated the two security. officers. >> now you mentioned a particular song came. out that changed how you handled Tupac. Shak Tupac Shakur's security. What song.

are you talking about? >> It was a song called Hit Up. >> Um and is it fair to say um. that in that song Tupac is. aggressively expressing his dislike for. the members of Bad Boy Entertainment as. well as other artists. >> That's fair to say. And as a result of. that, you decided to change the security. for Tupac or increase it. >> Well, I was a part of the discussion and.

ultimately had to prove it, but I'm sure. Mr. Knight and possibly Mr. Shakur and. maybe the security officer that was. primarily with him, we all agreed that. he probably need another guy with him. Um, were you aware during this time of a. [clears throat]. gang from Compton being used by Bad Boy. Entertainment when they came to the West. Coast? >> We had heard those rumors and we were.

familiar. >> And uh, what gang was that? >> The Southside Crips. >> Now the Southside Crips, that was the. same gang that you had told us earlier. that Mr. Davis belonged to. Is that. correct? >> Yes, sir. >> And and by Mr. Davis, I mean Kefi D. >> That's who I believe he is. Yes. >> Yeah. And then um was there ever a time. where Death Row and uh you and whatever. other unofficial security uh Death Row.

had had a clash with Bad Boy and the. Southside Compton Crips uh at all? >> Yes, we had it at a Soul Train Music. Awards. Uh, I previously stated that Mr. Davis was with him and I even think I. may have even said that he was one of. the ones close to the guy with the with. the gun. Never said he was the one with. the gun, but there's been out there, you. know, social media where a gentleman has. came out and admitted that he was the. one that actually had the gun, that.

particular incident by the name of C. Gutter. So did you do you remember well. I'm going to ask you what your. independent recollection is your tell us. about that incident. So it's a soul. train what is it the Soul Train Music. Awards. >> Soul Train Music Awards. >> and approximately what timeline are we. looking at? >> Uh. April May of 95. >> of 95. >> I'm sorry 96. >> Okay. Of 96. I'm sorry. >> Um and is you had mentioned before the.

song hit him up. Was this before or. after the song hit him up? Uh that was. before Hitimok. >> Okay. That was before Hitmon. >> Okay. Tell us what happened at the Soul. Train Music Awards. >> Uh we pulled in originally. Um we had an. entourage of about 50 people with us, but they only allowed two of us, two. cars of us to get back in the back. parking lot because that's where they. had all the uh the setup and the u motor. homes and stuff like that. So u we drove.

um in the back u Mr. Knight um. Mr. Shakur and a few of the outlaws was. inside of a Hummer and myself and Frank. uh which was Tupac security that night, Mr. Shakur security that night. He um we. drove in behind them as we was getting. out of the vehicle or getting you know. getting ready to park. Mr. Shakur saw. Christopher Wallace and um and group of.

people a few guys that I recognized from. the southside uh in that entourage. as they were u Mr. Shakur immediately uh. became a rage and it started yelling and. and confrontation between Mr. Small. Biggie and uh Mr. score took place to. the point where one of their guys. brandished a weapon and then that's when.

I pulled my firearm and towards him and. begged with him, pleaded with him not to. raise the gun. Uh there was some. security from the Nation of Islam there. They got in the middle of it, broke us. up. The gentleman took off and ran uh. towards the uh street uh in the parking. lot. >> I'm sorry. Who ran towards the street? the gentleman with the gun and several. couple of the people that was with him. took off and ran. >> Now, you said that uh that Southside was.

providing that type of backup. >> They were with him in Rochester. Yes, sir. >> Do you recall uh whether Dwayne Davis. was one of those people? >> Believe he was. I I know he was with. them, but like I said, I don't believe. he was the one with the gun. All right, let's fast forward to uh. September 7th, 1996 or that weekend. Um, when do you come to Las Vegas for that.

for that weekend? >> I came out that Friday. Uh, I believe. that was the sixth. The Friday was the. sixth. I think the seventh is the day. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, I came out that Friday. out. So, we had a nightclub that was in the. process of being open. And out here, I. guess there's some type of cars that. everyone that work around people just. having alcohol, I think they were called. town cars or something like that at the. time. We had to I had to get all my. security guards uh to have those.

particular cards for that night because. the attorney that was assisting us and. getting the club open, I said, "Hey, y'all got to be really on y'all y'all. peas. We got to have everything on point. because if everything goes smoothly. tonight, there's a good chance we're. going to be able to get the permits. transferred from the the previous owner. to Mr. Knight's uh name. >> And so I want to stop you there. >> Okay. >> Um first you're talking about you got. advice from an attorney. Do you remember. who that attorney was? >> Yes, sir.

>> Who was that attorney? >> Uh George Kiss. >> Okay. And then when you got the advice. from the attorney, uh the attorney was. generally telling you you got to be on. your P's and Q's, so to speak. >> Yes. Um. what um when you're when you're talking. about getting being on your P's and Q's. so that the club could be transferred to. Shogun Knight was club 662 at that time. in Mr. Knight's name? >> No, it was perceived that it was people. believed it even because of the name. change,

excuse me, but it hasn't officially been. uh the paperwork hadn't officially or. never was completed. It was never done. Now, you talk about the name change. Explain to us a little bit about the. name change. >> Well, we had a sign and all of that. called club 662. >> Explain to us what 662 means. >> 662 on a keyboard of your phone. It. would spell out the word M O which mean. members of the bloods. >> Well, nobody has keyboards on their. phones anymore. >> I forgot about that. >> Um, and so, uh, the club itself, the name of.

the club itself rang out that it was a. blood affiliated club. >> That's correct. Now, what advice did Mr. Kesus give you. uh regarding being on your P's and Q's. for that night in order for SH Knight to. be able to obtain approval for running. that club? So he advised and the main. thing that came out of that meeting was. he advised all of my security guards. even though that they were authorized to. carry guns being offduty police officers.

and stuff. that we shouldn't have guns on our our. possession inside the inside of the club. on that night. So your understanding was. or at least the advice that you got was. inside those two if you're working it. for rightway security. >> correct. >> don't you're not carrying a gun. >> Yes sir. >> Did you communicate that to the people. working for you? >> So we had a meeting in Mr. Kiss um. office.

He said it. Mr. K said it. My guys probably wouldn't have did. anything if I didn't echo it today. I. can't say I echoed it and agreed to it, but I'm sure I did. >> What you're saying is you don't have an. independent recollection, but you think. you probably did echo Mr. Police's. advice. >> Yes, sir. >> And when was this meeting? >> That. that Friday that Friday uh after the. they had all came from the town cars uh.

meeting because I took them all the. Fridays and we went and ate that Fridays. after that meeting. So, it was that. Friday. Okay. And then uh so the process. was with your with your folks, people. working with you, was that they had to. get their TAM cards or whatever. temporary work cards required to do the. work that you needed them to do in 662, then have a meeting with uh the. attorney. The attorney tells them, "Hey, we're trying to get this uh club. transferred to SH's name. Let's keep it. clean and don't carry a firearm.". >> That's correct. Um,

>> did you uh do anything else that night. that Friday at all relevant to uh the. events that occurred on September 7th, 1996? >> We have the club actually open on. Fridays and Saturdays, but for some. reason we didn't get a big attendance on. Friday nights, but Saturday night, it. was a different night. >> So, you knew that uh that that night, September 7th, 1996, was the night that. Mike Tyson was fighting Bruce. Is that. correct? >> Yes, sir. And was that part of the.

reason why you guys were going to have. the club open because because of that. fight? >> That was the only times the club under. Mr. Knight, you know, the club 662. banner. Uh we only did that about three. times and that would have been the. fourth time. And so we only opened those. four times, those the Friday and the. Saturday. And then we did it one more. time where Mr. Shakur and um Snoop Dog. did a St. Ives commercial which was just. a promotional.

private uh video shoot for a commercial. >> Now uh who was in charge of the security. for club 662 that night? >> Well, ultimately I am, but I had a um on. um site. uh supervisor by the name of Al Giddens. He was actually in who I considered in. charge of the club, but ultimately as. the owner I I was.

>> And then uh we heard from James. McDonald. He's he's suggested that he. had a role uh in security as well. Uh. maybe different than uh your role in. security. Were you aware of James. McDonald being there uh at the club? >> Yeah, James was a headache for my. security. They hated him. But he and I, we've been knowing each other over 52. years, you know. [clears throat] So, uh, I mean, that was like my brother. So,

he, uh, James used to do it as a hustle. What. James would do was go outside, get guys. that looked like they had a bunch of. money and bring them to the front of the. line. And that drove my security crazy. But James was just out there working the. door. Sugar have a bunch of his homeboys to. come and be on the lookout, you know, still, you know, blood related, pyro. related to be around, but James was. mainly doing little side hustle.

>> Um, now in terms of uh as the person in. charge or the person contracted to be in. charge of death row security, were you. aware that Tupac Shakur was going to. come to the fight on September 7th, 1996? >> Definitely the plan. Uh that was. definitely the plan and there was a. reason that I knew he had to come but. that was definitely the plan. >> Okay. Well, tell us the reason why he. had to come. >> So we uh Mr. police who um he had um.

something worked out cuz that's why we. had off duty police offic. they were in uniform so I don't know if. they was working off duty or they were. on duty but we had my guys were. responsible from the door inside where. the police officers were responsible for. the door and the street traffic control. and the parking lot and so I guess how. they got that approved who was um. >> well, if you're guessing, I don't want. you I don't want you to guess. Were you.

were Were were you the person. responsible for whatever uh event. control or traffic control that the Las. Vegas Metropolitan Police Department. did? >> No, sir. >> Were you the point of contact? >> I was the point of contact for the club. Yes. >> Yeah. But you were the point of contact. for the club. And then the person, is it. fair to say that the person dealing with. whatever traffic control or event. control or population control, whatever. it was, was that the attorney, George. Glaces, >> he was the one that got them there. >> Okay.

>> Made the call to get them there. >> Okay. So, you you weren't the one that. called Metro. >> No, sir. >> Um, so anything that that you would have. said regarding that is just kind of you. trying to put the dots together, assuming what that conversation might. have been. And and only reason I say. that because I knew we was we promoted. it as a. uh a benefit for a retired boxer uh for. police or retired he was a retired. police officer that uh was promoting or. had something to do with the boxing for.

the for youth or something like that. >> So that kind of got is adding to the P's. and Q's that make Mr. Knight look better. when the transfer of when trying to. transfer this club. were also holding a. benefit. >> that and also Mr. Mr. Shakur was trying. to work off some uh community service. hours that he needed. I don't know how. they they made it happen in LA County. >> And so. what Mr. Shakur was scheduled to perform. that night at Club 662. Is that right?

>> Yes, sir. >> And so you're telling us that it was. your understanding that uh Mr. Shakur. performing at Club 662 at this benefit. would help him accumulate hours for. community service. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. >> So, when was Tupac Tupac report supposed. to come to Las Vegas? >> Well, they always came up on that Saturday. Uh. I know that I know that they arrived. about 400 p.m. on that Saturday, but if.

they were scheduled to come out earlier. or not, I'm not sure. And then at some. point um well who's the security for. Tupac vet that Saturday? >> Uh Mr. Alexander but he was out there. with me uh getting the town cars and. everything. Mr. Skore actually rolled up. uh with I guess his fiance and um a few. members of the Outlaws. >> And who are the Outlaws? Yellow is a is a bunch of people. actually, but it's a group of u rappers.

um that works with Mr. Shakur that he. was trying to help get their careers. going. >> And was uh Malcolm Greenage one of the. members of the Outlaws? >> Yes, sir. >> And I think he goes by the name Edin. >> That's correct, sir. >> And Qatari Cox, was he one of the. members of the Outlaws? >> Yes, sir. >> And then Aula, and I always get the name. wrong, but Mr. Aoola, was he also one of. the members of the Outlaw? >> He was as well. >> Okay. Um, and you said Mr. Alexander was the. person that was supposed to be working.

security or the person assigned for. security for Mr. Shakur. Uh, but that he. was with you. So on Saturday, was. anybody with Mr. Shakur? >> No sir. >> Um, and you had mentioned earlier that. after the uh song hit him up had come. out and that was probably what three. four months before this. >> um you had assigned two security. officers to Mr. Shakur. >> That's correct. Uh, so where's the other. one? >> Well, that was Mr. Hackey, Kevin Hackey. He was scheduled to also be uh attending.

and writing and that's who I actually. thought was going to be with him, coming. up with him cuz he normally was. with him, you know, him and Mr. Alexander, they kind of worked out who. would be with Mr. Shakur and um some. reason he he didn't show up. me now. telling me he had a late arrest and he. was stuck at the hospital all day. dealing with her arrest. >> Um, so the uh the fight night uh arrives.

Where are you? >> You go to the fight. >> I went to the parking lot of the fight. So it was kind of hack act um hectic to. get inside but also uh got a call from. Mr. Giddings, Al Giddings, who was my uh. supervisor at the club, and they was. having some logistic problems, some. problems there, and I elected to go and. uh get things in order at the at the. club.

>> So, you get to the parking lot of MGM, see, it's a little crazy, and decide to. head over to Club 662. >> That's correct. >> Um, and was Club 662? It was on uh. Flamingo, is that right? >> So, Locka Flamingo. Yes, sir. Okay. Actually, can I see exhibit two? Going to publish exhibit two, which has. already been admitted. All right. Actually, Mr. R, you're not. in position great for uh any of this. But uh there there we have Can you see. 662 up there?

>> I don't have my glasses. [laughter]. >> No, no worries. I'm sorry. >> I got you. Mr. Brooks. >> Oh, yes. >> Freely. >> Thank you. Um,

>> you see uh clubs. There's a red 662 club. on this map. You see it? >> Yes, sir. Is that accurately. representing where Club 662 was? >> Yes, sir. >> So, you leave the Las Vegas strip and. head over to Club 662. >> That's correct, sir. >> Um, was it did you handle the logistical. issues at Club 662? >> I guess. [laughter] I'm sure I'm sure we got it.

worked out. Yes, sir. >> And then was Club 662 Did you stay at. Club 662 or did you head back to the. strip that night? No, I stayed there um. the whole time until, you know, until I was contacted by some. other individuals. >> Okay. So, we'll we'll start uh before we. get there. How was 662 super busy that. night or was it kind of less crowded? >> The clubs generally didn't start getting. crowded till about 11:00 p.m. I think we. were there like 8 8:30. So, it.

eventually got there, but I wouldn't. call it super super crawly at that. point. >> And then you said you were there and. then you uh uh something changed. Well, we all know that on September 7th, 1996, Tupac Shakur was shot and Mr. Knight was. uh at least grazed in the head by a. bullet. Um did you find out about that? >> Yes, sir. >> How did you find out about that? two. gentlemen, uh, Buncher,

true name was Alton McDonald, and a. gentleman by the name of Neckbone. Well, his true name is Roger Williams, but his. mind Chris Neckbone. They came inside the club and came. straight to me. It was like, Reggie, Reggie, Sugar, and Pop just got shot. down the street. I thought they were messing with me. because they like, "Where Reggie at?". You know, cuz I wasn't there with him. But then uh Mr. Kisu was standing near. me. I guess he talked to some of the.

officers that was working out front and. he kind of verified to me that something. happened and then by that time I see. about four or five other units that were. working at the club. They started taking. out heading that way. >> Um now you mentioned two people uh. Buntry Alton McDonald. Is it does Buntry. have any relation to James McDonald, the. person that testified before you? >> That's his um little brother. Yes, sir. >> And then you had mentioned uh Neck Bone.

Roger Williams. Um were these people. employed by Rightway Security? >> No, sir. >> Uh were they part of M Pyro? >> Yes, sir. >> Is it fair to say, as we talked about. earlier, that SH would have members of M. Pyro? >> Correct. And while they weren't official. security, would you say they provided. a different form of security? >> That would be a fair um.

>> Yes, that's correct. >> So upon hearing the fact that well at. that time when. Suge Knight and Tupac Shakur were headed. to club 662, were you aware of their. movements? Were you aware that they were. headed over to the club at that point? >> Not at that point. I hadn't heard. anything. Uh Frank hadn't communicated. anything with me and I just knew they. were eventually will get there. But no, I I hadn't had I didn't know any. movement where they were at or when they.

were coming to towards our way. >> Oh, you had said uh Frank hadn't told. you anything at this point. Had Frank. met up with Tupac? Oh, >> I'm sorry. Frank was with um Mr. Shakur. uh since about um 4:00 p.m. on that day. 4 to 5:00 p.m. on Saturday. He was with. him on that day. >> So he didn't drive out with Mr. Shakur, but he eventually met up with Mr. Shakur. >> That's correct. [snorts] Him and another. gentleman who initially was with him by. the name of Michael Moore. >> And was Mr. Moore also a member of.

security? >> He worked for Rightway as well. >> Okay. And so um then you have Mr. Shakur, Mr. Knight headed to Club 662. Um to your knowledge whether other. people headed over I guess we already. heard about um Neckbone and Buntry were. there whether other people headed over. to Club 662 with uh Mr. Knight and Mr. Sheport. >> on that in on driving over there was it. more than one car or there a number of. cars driving over to Club 662.

>> and only I can only speak on what I know. now. >> Okay. Okay. Well, no. And back then, did. you know? >> I just know who normally what they. >> um. so after uh Buntry and Neckbone tell you. that uh [cough] Mr. Shakur and Mr. Knight had been shot and you seem to get. some confirmation from uh the attorney. What do you do? >> Me and Mr. Kiss and Michael Moore who. was with Mr. score earlier who who got.

you know his primary job was to work at. the the club. He and I uh jumped in the. car with Mr. Kalis and headed towards. the scene but when we were told Mr. U. Shakur and Mr. Knight was however in. route Mr. Khis was on the phone and was. notified that they were headed to UMC. >> So did you go to UMC then? >> That's correct. [clears throat]. Now, uh, taking a step back, did you see.

the car that, uh, Buntry at Neckbone. arrived to Club 662 in. >> eventually? Yes, sir. >> And, uh, did you notice anything notable. about that car? >> Yes, Mr. um, Buntry, uh, he had a Toyota. Supra that was black and he had one. bullet to the, uh, the driver side. fender. >> Now, let's go back to You're on your way. back to uh, or you're on your way over. to UMC. What happens at UMC? >> Get there.

Of course, you know, Mr. Knight and Mr. Sho was in the emergency room. Uh, I. didn't get to see Mr. Knight until about. 3 hours later. I saw him. But it was a. lot of people gathering. Guess people. would heard what happened from the club. They started gathering there and people. just starting to gather and. >> in the parking lot outside of the. hospital. >> Was uh Mr. Mr. Knight held at UMC for a. long time or like for weeks or what. happened with Mr. Knight?

>> No, Mr. Knight was released. Um, I left. prior for I don't know why I left. I. left prior to him getting released about. 4:00 or 5 that morning, but I know I was. back at his house. I went and got his. home secured. And uh I know I was back. at his house about 6 a.m. to 7 a.m. that. morning and was with them all that day. Um, after all this or sometime during. this, do you make contact with your. father? >> Yes, sir. >> How do you do that?

>> By phone. I called him a couple of times. through throughout that night. Uh, told. him what just happened to Suge and um, Mr. Shakur. You know, it's kind of. stressful for me. Um, called him a few. times that night. >> How are you calling him? >> By cell phone. >> Oh, you had a cell phone at that time? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Um, and uh, did you was there. anything that you felt you had to relay. to him in order to uh, let him know what. might be happening the next day? >> Well, during that night or that early.

morning, I was getting information for. people in the parking lot and around. that, hey, you know, they got into it at. the MG with some guys from Southside. Count the Crips. And so I relayed that. to him. didn't tell know who who the. people were, just that they got into us. with some guys from Southside and um I. told them, "Hey, it's going to be trouble back in in. Compton.". >> When did you go back to Compton?

>> When did you go back to California? >> Yeah, about two weeks later. >> So, you were in town while Mr. Shakur. was at the hospital. >> The whole time he was at the hospital. Um, and that following week as well, >> uh, what was your role while Mr. Shakur. was in the hospital, >> uh, I had two guys assigned outside his. door the whole time he was fighting for. his life and they were there just, uh, we had problems with I remember a candy.

striper trying to sneak up and take a. picture of him while he was lying, fighting for his life and we're just. trying to keep people out. Of course, M. Shakur, his mother was in charge, but. just mainly trying to keep people out. that she didn't want in or got her. permission to come in come in to see Mr. Shakur while he's fighting for his life. >> Um, and then you had said uh uh after.

Mr. Shakur had passed, you stayed in. Vegas for another week. >> That's correct. >> Why is that? Well, I'm the one uh that. actually received his uh ashes and had. one of my security guys by the name of. James Green uh fly back uh with the. ashes and um eventually delivered them. to u someone in the family. I believe it. was the mother. Um but if it wasn't her, it was somebody that she authorized to. receive the ashes. >> But you were the person that delivered.

the ashes. Jesus. James Green was. >> you received the ashes and then gave it. >> to James. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> you know, want to ask you this just straight. Did. you have anything to do with the murder. of two? >> Absolutely not. >> Um,

As a result uh of the uh beating of. Orlando Anderson at the MGM Grand, were. there any legal proceedings that. involved Mr. Knight? >> Yes, sir. >> Um is it fair to say that Mr. Knight was. on probation at the time of the beating. at the MGM ranch? >> He was. Actually, can we show uh 115? Actually, I don't even know that uh Mr.

Wright can see. We can take the computer up to um I just. have to open it. off the screen though if I take it off. here. You want to do it on the on your. computer so he can see it up close and. I'll play it for the jury. I assume you won't. You want the.

>> [snorts]. >> I'll show it to you up close, Mr. Wright, while Mr. Dejakamo shows it to. the. members of the jury. and Mr. Jacqu. start. >> Yeah. Uh for the record, this is uh. states exhibit 115B at 7 minutes and 4. seconds. >> Okay.

>> Actually, before we start playing, um Mr. uh Wright, have you um have you. seen the MGM video before? >> Yes, sir. You fair to say you've seen it. more than once. >> Uhhuh. Yes, sir. >> And partly because it was part of a. revocacia proceeding that involved. shogun night. >> That's correct. >> Now I'm going to show you 115B.

starting at 7:04. I'm clicking. One. second. Not just yet. I'm clicking. right. >> Is this the video that you've seen. before? >> That's correct, sir. Pause. Starting at 7:20.

7:20. Um, uh, did you recognize the folks that. were hitting Mr. Anderson there? >> Hitting or kicking? >> Hitting or kicking. Yeah. Yes, I do. Uh, who are they? >> The gentleman in the white with the. black hat on. was um. try and coordinate this again.

>> Can you see it? >> I can see it. Yes. >> Oh, okay. Well, then the uh can you tell. us the people who are involved in this? >> That gentleman right there in the white. is uh Budrey um Alton McDonald.

There appears to be somebody in a gold. shirt. Who is that? >> That appeared to be Mr. Shakur. >> [snorts]. >> There's a person in uh uh gray on gray. looks like uh outfit. Do you know who. that is? >> The one that I saw that's right in front. of M Mr. McDonald right now is Roger. Williams. >> Okay.

>> I thought it was blue. I saw. >> maybe I'm talking about the wrong. >> Yeah. shot. Okay. >> Well, that's Mr. Knight and then that's.

Mr. Williams. >> So, you see Mr. Williams, Mr. Knight, Mr. Shakur. Uh, those are the people that are. evident to you in this portion of the. video. Is that right? >> That's correct, sir. >> And then we have another video of. everybody leaving. >> Can you see that?

>> See it? But. >> that's fair. Okay, I'm going to show Mr. Right. 115 C.

and Mr. core. Mr. Night, Mr. Wills. Don't seem to I don't see Frank yet.

Okay, there you go. Mr. Alexander is the. one with no sleeves on his shirt. and he's leading the pack now. You. >> see Trayvon Lane? Uh.

I don't see Mr. Lane yet. Know he had a hat on. I've seen him. before. I don't see him right now, though. Let me look again. Frank, this is Shakur.

[clears throat].

I'm sorry. I don't see this. I'm sorry.

Sorry.

[snorts].

>> [cough and clears throat]. [clears throat]. >> I'm going just ask you to focus on the. people leaving now at this point. >> Okay. right there. Upper right. Yeah.

>> So you see him. >> Yeah. He has the hat on. Upper right. corner is Mr. Lane. >> So you see him leaving the scene, but. you don't actually see him during the uh. >> altercation. He actually hitting. >> No. >> Uh Mr. Anderson. >> I didn't see him do that, >> but he's with the group that's fleeing. the beating of Mr. Anderson. >> That's correct. Um. going to show you. what's been marked as state proposed. exhibit 60.

>> Do you recognize who that person is? >> That's that's Mr. Lane. >> Do you recognize the person in St. Ghib [laughter] too? >> Yes, I recognize him. That's Mr. Davis. >> Okay. I'm going to show you the person. depicted in states exhibit number three, >> Mr. Anderson. >> And lastly, I'm going to show you what's. been marked as states exhibit 72. Do you. recognize what's in that? >> This is J. Yes.

>> I want to move these exhibits into. evidence. >> No. >> So admitted. Can you uh show uh number six? >> Sorry, this is Mark.

>> Is that the person you identified as. Trayvon Lane? >> Yes. Yes, sir. Mr. Paul, um, is this a Can you could. you take it? Is this a natural stopping. point? >> Yes, we can do it later. >> Okay. I think we need one of our jurors. needs to come for you. Okay. >> All right. So, at this time, we're going. to take a recess. During this recess, you are admonished not to talk or. converse amongst yourselves or with. anyone else on any subject connected to. the trial or read, watch, or listen any.

report or commentary on the trial of any. person connected to this case. Find any. need of information including without. limitation, newspaper, television, internet, and radio or form express any. opinion on any subject. for the visa. submitted to you. We'll have everyone. back here at 3:40. Please rise for the. jury.

For the record, the jury has exited the. room. We'll be in recess. Mr. Right, did. you need any water bottle or anything? I. have one. Thank you very All right. No. problem.

Back on record in state versus Davis. C37747.

Anything we need to address outside the. presence? >> Mr. Sam, anything we need to talk about. before we bring in the jury? >> No. >> Awesome. All right, let's bring in the. jury. We're on the record and.

>> the party stipulate to the presence of. the jury. >> Yes, your honor. Yes, sir. >> You may be seated. >> You may proceed. >> Thank you, your honor. Um, Mr. Wright, would it be I I would be easier to look. at the monitor on the witness stand or. are you able to see that better? >> Pictures this size, I can see both ways. >> Okay. All right. Uh, so, uh, you're now.

looking at states exhibit number 60. Who. is that? >> That's Trayvon Lane. Right. And, uh, and. Mr. Dejak, do you mind putting on 62? showing you states exhibit number 62. Who is that? >> That's Mr. Davis. >> Uh, you might bring up 63. Showing you. states exhibit 63. >> Who is that? >> That's Mr. Anderson. >> And then we had talked briefly about it,

so I want to just uh show it. Showing. you states exhibit 72. >> What is that? >> That's a defin medallion. And we'll touch on that in a minute, but. we were talking about the uh uh beating. of Orlando Anderson at the MGM. Uh Mr. Knight was on probation at the time you. had mentioned. Is that correct? >> That is correct. >> And then um after you guys got back from. Las Vegas back to the Southern.

California area, did Mr. Knight have a. legal problem as a result of his alleged. participation in that beating? >> That's correct, sir. And can you uh. explain that to us? >> Uh they've already man initially they've. already man they said for a 30 test for. u um that he had did with his probation. officer but um while he was still in. custody they then added the charge of u. of um he violated his probation for um. assaulting Mr. Anderson. So he's on.

probation. He's on video uh at least. what appears to be participating in the. beating of Mr. Anderson. Um and so he is. charged with violating his probation. >> That's correct, sir. >> Um and uh do you participate in any of. the preparation for Mr. uh Knight's. hearing on his probation violation. >> with with his attorney, Mr. Kenner? I. attended several meetings. Yes. And then.

uh are you aware of a meeting with Mr. Anderson? >> That's correct. >> Can you tell us about that? >> So we met him at his attorney office, Mr. Edie Fall. Uh was in Seal Beach, I. believe, where his office was. And um. we met with him. the attorneys had an. agreement where um I guess they were. will make a settlement or something for. uh uh.

and Mr. Anderson to come and testify on. Mr. Knight behalf where I believe the. settlement was of about $60,000 because. some of the death people had assaulted. him and some would say for him coming up. and testifying on the behalf of Mr. Mr. Knight. >> Okay. So, just to be clear, prior to um. Mr. Knight's revocation hearing, there. was a meeting with Orlando Anderson, the.

person who was beaten in that video. Is. that right? >> That's correct. >> And then there was an agreement. that $60,000 would change hands between. Sugge Knight or Death Row or some aspect. of that side to Mr. Anderson. Is that. correct? >> That's correct. But that was made. between the attorneys, Mr. Kenner, who. was also present, and Mr. Paul. >> Okay. I'm not saying that you're the. person that did that. I'm just saying. you that. >> I was at the meeting, myself and Norris. Anderson, who was the general manager of.

the company at the time. >> Okay. And then. uh at that probation hearing, is it fair. to say that Mr. Anderson said that Mr. night was just trying to stop the fight. and not participate in the fight at all. >> That was his testimony. Yes. >> And that was after he received the. $60,000. >> That part I don't know. >> That was after the agreement for the. >> It was agreement in place. So, >> okay. And then.

is is it fair to say that uh um the. judge disregarded Mr. Anderson's. testimony and revoked Mr. Knight's. >> parole? Um, sustain. >> Well, did the judge believe Mr. Anderson's testimony? >> Well, Mr. Knight was subsequently. violated police for his probation and. received 9 years um sentence. >> And as a result, when Mr. Knight was uh. imprisoned for those nine years, who was.

running death row? >> Uh after about four or five minutes of. his incarceration, I became um u the. general manager of the company. Okay. Um, we show the uh death row um. uh what do you what do you call that? Uh. >> pendant. >> Pendant. We show the death row pendant. Uh can you tell us about the. distribution of death row pendants to. various people that were associated with. death row? >> Mainly the uh artists uh received them.

Uh and and then u people close. associates of Mr. Knight. They were. given out [clears throat] to different. people for Christmas presents. uh of 1995. >> Yes. >> Um were you aware of whether or not. Trayvon Lane had received a death row. pendant? >> He was one. Yes, sir. >> And is it typically wore on a chain. around one's neck? >> That's correct, sir. >> No pass. >> Okay. Mr. Samp cross examination.

>> Thank you. Mr. Wright, have you and I. ever met? >> Uh, no, sir. You [clears throat] have a podcast, I. believe, right? >> Uh YouTube channel that I that I talk. on. >> Uh I'm sure you're probably anticipating. the next question. Um in your YouTube. channel, you have spoken a little bit. about uh me for instance, right? >> Uh that's correct. >> Um. >> and you have spoken about me as well.

>> Yeah. So in terms of um your podcast or. YouTube channel um And once again, I. don't think it was anything derogatory. It was more like uh he's never tried a. criminal case or I think Hollywood ass. attorney. I think you had said something. like that, right? >> Well, yeah, did about 10 interviews in. the last two months. So, I may have said. something like that. >> Now, in terms of your um podcast stuff, it's uh it's very this pretty good. point. At some point, uh you had. actually instructed Keith that hey, he. can actually make money doing the.

YouTube stuff. Remember that? Uh, it didn't go quite like that, but I did. pass his number to uh a few YouTube. channels after he and I had this. discussion about doing u something on my. channel, but I refused to pay him cuz. I'm not giving someone I believe is. Tupac Killer money. >> Sure. Um, you had a interview with uh a. Mr. Mog. Do you remember that? >> Detective Mog. Yes, sir.

>> Was he a detective at the time? He was. >> okay. So, he's a detective at the time. and he sat down with you and you had a. conversation with him and you basically. told him that you had advised KPD about. the I don't know how much you can get. paid doing YouTube stuff. You remember. that? >> I don't remember that though. >> Now, um you don't remember that or you. don't believe that? >> I remember Kevin C. But to say you can. make $5,000 or $10,000. I didn't have. any conversation like that with M.

Detective MS. >> Okay. So, you don't know or you don't. remember? I just want to make sure we're. we're different here. >> I remember meeting with Detective MS. I. know I am the one that. started passing Mr. Davis now around to. do more interviews to get him to talk. Yes. >> Okay. So you when. you volunteered to detective Mog KPD's. number, you said I set him up with a. couple of interviews, right?

>> And because I promise you if you all. ever listen, I promise him I would. You. know, we talk bad about each other, but. you know, I'll hook you up. I'm kind of. I'm kind of uh know all these YouTubers. out here and so I kind of hook people up. with them. Quote, "You want to make some. money?" uh nword unquote and then. question was asked by detective mog. So. what do you get paid for your. interviews? And you respond, oh I get. about 2500 3,000 a show. You remember.

that. >> Uh that's that's accurate. So I might. have said that. >> Now you also said 5,000. I got my f He. was crying about his taxes. You were. referring to Kefi in that, right? He was. crying about his taxes. Kei, >> not sure. I got him about to go blast. him next week. He's getting 3500. So. they pay you because they get views. They get paid, man. YouTube, every. million views you get, you get about. 6,000 to 10,000.

And then. >> that's the channel, >> okay? >> Not the person. >> And then once again, I'm talking about. the YouTuber. And so if you do a bunch. of them and you get a 100,000 and they. break them up into like five or 10. minute segments and you can get a. 15-second segments from me and you get. 200,000 people to view it, you can make. $8,000 to $10,000 off of me. And you. just gave me 2500 3,000. Do you remember saying that to Detective. Mock? >> I'm I'm sure that's doesn't sound like. accurate statements. So.

>> I'm sure I did. And and once again, it's. it's clear to show that there's a. business with YouTube, right? >> That's correct, sir. >> And so when you post something online, you're posting it online with the hopes. that you're going to get paid for that. >> Yeah. And that didn't start until about. 2021. Sure. Or 2020 after co. Yes. >> Now, with regards to um your role here, you were the head of security for. Sugite, >> correct? >> Um and and I want to make sure I'm. clear. Where did you grow up? in.

Compton. >> I mean, my address is 1628 East Pine. Street, Compton, California. >> Where where's that at in terms of uh. because we're assuming and you could. tell this jury otherwise that wherever. you grew up or whatever your street was, you by default was part of a certain. gang or color. >> I never gave a always to be a police. officer growing up. However, guys that I. grew up with, was in the sandbox with, played sports with, yeah, they were mob pyro affiliate.

>> Okay. >> Some some police officers, some football players, >> several type of people grew up in our. community. >> And at some point, you get yourself out. of it. You become a police officer. >> I never was in it. >> Okay. You Oh, thank you for correcting. me. You become a police officer for. about five years. Uh 90 to 96. Six. years. Yeah. >> Six years. And you you have to retire. medically. >> Correct.

>> And you had shared with us earlier that. you created the security company. You. were moonlighting sort of doing your job. during the day and then doing this other. side hustle at night. >> That's accurate. >> And that side hustle became your. full-time gig when you were no longer a. police officer. >> That's correct, sir. And so in terms of. who you were, the main service you. provided services for would have been uh. death row records. >> 95%. >> That's correct, sir. >> And in essence, I mean, this is was your. number one client, right?

>> I agree with you. >> And. and you spent a lot of time with. eventually that grew, but yes. 94 not as. much. 95 96. Yes, sir. >> Okay. And you're providing services for. Suge in terms of security, right? >> For Suge or his company. >> for the death row label. >> That's correct, sir. >> And you created you actually had created. a company specifically for the security. aspect of it, right?

>> That's fair. >> And that's uh the right. >> right way. >> Right way. >> protective services. >> Protective services. Okay. Now, as. you're going about doing that, you had. shared with us a little bit about um. some of the things you had done and you. shared [cough and clears throat] with us. that hey, there was there was something. that happened at one of the awards. ceremony. You talked about that, right? >> At the soul train. That's correct. >> And you said that at that soul train uh. incident that my client was present when. some other guy flashed the gun or.

something like that. >> That's correct. >> But it wasn't. >> it wasn't your client. Okay. And and. once again, your security, your former. police officer, did you ever report that. incident to police? >> They ran. Actually, police detained the. subjects uh outside the gate or towards. the gate. What happened to him, I don't. know, cuz I was more interested in. getting my clients inside the war show. >> And your father, just to correct my. memory, is a lieutenant at the time with.

Compton. >> Or was he Captain Comp at that time? Lieutenant, a lieutenant, sorry. >> Yes. And his role and what he was. responsible for was the gangs in comp. >> That's correct, sir. >> So, it would have been information he. would have maybe picked up or you would. have told him. >> That's what people get confused about. law enforcement. Compton is a city about. 8 to 10 miles away from. Well, that's by USC is where this. incident happened. That's about 20 miles. away from Compton. And so Compton PD and.

LAPD don't share information with each. other like people think in um in law. enforcement, >> right? But you're talking about someone. who's from Compton. You're saying that. that guy right up there who's from. Compton was present at that particular. event. >> Wasn't a big thing. It was just a guy. that was some guy that Branders were up. >> Right. So in your mind, it's not about. this idea that this is a gang sort of. thing. It's just some idiot with a gun. flashing a gun. Right. >> I agree with you. >> Okay. Uh, and so.

>> but they were also protecting bad boys. records. >> Okay. Well, we can talk about that in a. second. Um, in terms of. your role though and your company, you. at some point, um, you obviously are now working with. Suge and there's this idea with the. death row or death row records that. there may be sort of, you know, tension in the air. Was there anything. going on during that time period prior. to, you know, September of 1996 that was.

happening that was telling you, hey, I. need to make sure that death throw. records is protected. >> You always had an element um because of. incidents when you go out to nightclubs, um the party scene was always some. issue. >> Yeah. Unfortunately, >> and because you're dealing with someone. like SH Knight and at that point, any of. his other people that was working for. him, like say the entertainers, right? You're talking Snoop, you're talking. Tupac, that you would have adequate.

security to protect him, right? Say, from fans and that kind of stuff. >> I called it my seal was to be good with. witnesses. Mr. Tonight I just went. through a situation with one of his. artists, Snoop Dog, that was on trial. for murder and um they end up beating. the case, but they had got a large. judgment mainly because of the uh. qualifications or the lack of. qualifications of the security officer. that was acting as security officer that.

shot him and and killed the person. It. was and so when you have a big company. like Mr. I had I to thought it was best. and he thought it was best or maybe his. attorneys, I don't know, his label that. let's get some professional people. around you. >> And so for the most part, your practice. was to hire people that were either off. police officers or retired police. officers. >> That's correct, sir. >> And you did that because they were. properly trained and you could trust. them in terms of their judgment. >> That and my sale was to be a good.

witness. >> Gotcha. >> Yes, sir. Uh but with regards to their. roles, their roles obviously at the end. of the day were to protect the people um. that were your clients that would have. been death row records and whoever you. assigned them to do. >> as best you can. >> Yeah. So in in terms of what happens. here in Las Vegas, right, your testimony. is you arrive here to Las Vegas and. you're here on Friday, >> correct? >> And you're here to get ready for what's. happening on Saturday. Friday night there the coat club did.

open. Like I said, it wasn't majorly. attended, but definitely for Saturday. night. Yes, sir. >> Yeah. And in fact, um, Tupac and Suge. didn't arrive until Saturday. Anyways, >> they didn't come up until Saturday. That's correct, sir. >> Uh, and they drove up. >> They drove up. Yes, sir. >> So, they drove up. You're there. You're. working. And you're at 662, right? >> I'm at 662. Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, uh, I'm going to show you here.

an image and I'm going to ask the clerk. to mark as proposed defensive next in. order. >> See, I think. >> yes. >> C. >> Yep. >> May I? >> You may. >> Do you recognize this? >> That's close 662. Yes, sir. >> Okay. >> Um, and with regards to I'm sorry. And. with regards to that photograph, um, would that been accurate depiction of. 662 around the time period that we. talked about here. >> I agree with you, sir. Yes, sir.

>> Now, um. honor, at this point, I move for the. admission of proposed defense exhibit C. >> Any objection state? >> Nope. >> So, you may. >> I'll show this to the jury here real. quick. So, this is a picture of. 662. Now, you had shared with us a little bit. about um what was happening on Saturday. night. Attorney basically says, "Hey, we.

really want to get this club, I guess, pass in terms of its licensing. Maybe we. do something that helps the community at. least does an outreach." Is that what. we're doing? >> I think that was mainly to get the. police officers there. >> Okay. And uh with regards to that. particular night and so forth, you said. it's something to do with boxing. This. is a Barry's boxing benefit. Is that. what that was? >> Correct. Yes, sir. >> Okay. So this picture would have been. taken pretty much at the time of when. this event had gone down in September of. 1996.

>> I believe that [clears throat] night or. >> Yeah. >> or that week. Yes, sir. >> Um and uh with regards to Barry's. boxing, do you know anything about what. Barry's boxing is about? >> Just that he was a retired police. officer that um was helping young kids. in the area. with boxing. that was about it or you. know association or foundation to raise. money for youth coming up is is what I. remember. >> So Mob James just testified a little.

while ago. >> Okay. >> If his representation was there was no. event like that that was happening in. September of 1996, would he be wrong? >> Let me just say this. Um. they don't know like that. you know, we're not as transparent as maybe we. should be with with, you know, the. homeboys. >> I mean, but obviously this is sitting on. the front sign of the uh entrance going. into the facility, right? >> I went in that club at night and I ain't.

never noticed that. >> Well, let me ask you this though. In in. terms of what was happening, um, was Mob. James the head of security that night? So James responsibility is he he he had. a lot of juice with the with the the um. homeboys. and they had something they call red. where. everybody come out and and support each.

other. And um James was that person that. you know she looked to even during the. Snoop trial when Snoop was having. problems with u his homeboys coming up. there you know messing with him and. stuff. They were hired to be outside the. courthouse to keep them away and u that. was James Ro. So, and James was with SH. at the beginning and um. quite frankly, he might be a little.

upset that my guys kind of took a lot of. their roles or their responsibilities. >> Right. So, on this particular night, there's actually Metropolitan Police. officers that were were they hired by. you to be on the outside? >> Well, well, I will say Club 662 or under. Mr. police [cough and snorts]. and the person that was running the club. under their direction. I knew they were. going to be there, but I didn't speak to. anyone from the police department to. say, "This is how much y'all going to be. getting paid. I need you to do this." I.

just knew they were going to be working. from the door out. >> Yeah. Okay. And really the concern at. this particular point that you had as. well as I'm assuming Mr. Khis as the. attorney is you wanted to make sure. everything was going to go well for the. club. >> That's fair. >> In essence, and to help show with. passing of this particular clip. Right. >> That's correct, sir. >> So, one of the things that had happened. that you had shared with us is that. Friday you meet with police and you. learn and you're instructed that your. people are not to be carrying firearms.

>> inside the nightclub. >> Right. Inside of the nightclub. >> That's correct. >> All the way up until the time that they. get to that door, they're not supposed. to be carrying firearms. >> inside that club. >> Are you aware that the um Red Alert. people from Mob James were all carrying. firearms that night? >> Well, I had problems with um with that. Um my. guys were strict law enforcement. They. didn't care about they didn't have a. relationship with James and as I did.

And so um they would search them and um. if they got one in, who knows. Uh but. there was always issues with with them. about being searched. But my guys would. still they were like, "Hey, if you want. us here, we searching everybody coming. in this club.". >> Right. So that was important for you. But M James says otherwise. He said. everyone's. >> if they still come in. >> and it happens. >> And yeah, and with regards to your um.

meeting um with Mr. Klesus once again. you're there and do you have at that. particular point any ownership interest. at all in um death row records. >> none. >> so you are a separate entity you are. just the security company hired to. provide security for death row records. >> my company rightway was making money but. I also received a salary from death. >> okay so and you're in this meeting and. once again the meeting is to help Suge. get this club approved so he can make it.

That's correct, sir. >> And your job is really honestly is just. somebody who's providing the security to. the club. >> On that particular night, Dad, but I'm. more. so say at one point Sugar right-hand. guy, but my main focus was Sug Knight. entities. Wasn't just the recording. artist, wasn't just the record club, it. was everything that Mr. tonight was.

trying to invest in at the time. >> So, you're telling us that not only were. you providing security, but you're also. like an employee for uh dep records? >> I was both. >> Okay. Were you drawing like a uh like a. paycheck every two weeks as an employee? >> I was, sir. >> There wasn't no under the table stuff. like Mob James would have been telling. us. >> I we didn't do that the right way to do. that. And with regards to um Mob James. being paid, you're telling me that he. would have been paid the same way with.

uh with employee checks and so forth. from death row records. >> Bob James wasn't one of those employees. Like I said, he was just called on. special events. I only think James made. his money by guys in the line that were. ballers or shot callers or whatever that. he would bring to the front of the line. So, uh, just drawing your attention back. to, uh, the, you know, let's say around. four o'clock of Saturday. That Saturday.

>> Okay. >> Where were you? >> At the Luxor Hotel. >> Okay. And did you ever uh, what what. happens after 4:00 for you? >> Uh, I didn't head over to the club until. Well, I about 7 7:30. Got a call from. um, Mr. Alexander and Mr. Shakur Makur. was very upset that night because uh. missed the night always late and um he. was really.

he actually took a taxi cab I don't know. most people know over to the fight. because he was like tired of always. coming to the fight late on SH calling. me because most people call me because. they know I usually can get a hold of SH. and they they used to have phones in the. hotel lobbies. uh back then. And I remember him and Mr. Alexander calling me and he told me he. got on the phone cuz he was so upset. Tell we we we taking the cab over there.

We going over there right now. We'll. meet him over there. You know, he had a. the song was uh the entrance for Mr. uh. for Mike Tyson to to to enter the ring. on and he wanted to be there and he got. impatient with Mr. Light been late. Now, um, up until this point, you had. developed into the person that if you. wanted to get a show, they would call. you, right? >> In the streets, meaning when we out and. about. He had office staff assistants, Mr. Anderson and Mr. Tes Roy that were.

in the office. But generally, um, if I. call you, he'll pick up. >> But with the with regards to you, usually you would have been with SH in. order for the call to be made, right? They're calling you and like, "Hey, where should now? He's right here.". >> That's correct. So on this particular. night, Tupac is upset because Suge is. obviously late. He calls you. >> His bodyguard Frank called, but he got. on the phone. >> Yeah. >> You know anything about Mr. Shakur? He. he's a hands-on guy. >> And he eventually just said, "Hey,

you can't get a hold to him, we gone.". And they took a taxi over to the fight. And so you you have uh Frank Alexander, you have Tupac, and no other bodyguards. protecting each other or Tupac that. night. >> Yeah, Mr. Kevin Hecky was supposed to. attend, but he didn't. He wasn't there, and I didn't know that he hadn't shown. up yet. >> But you are aware at that particular. point, Tupac was the most famous rapper. almost in the entire world, if not the.

entire world. And you only assign one. person and another person calls him. sick. He didn't call us. He just didn't. show up. But um uh yeah, I mean it. wasn't unusual for Mr. Shakur to roll. around with one guy and his outlaw guys. >> But once again, you're telling us it's. only Frank Alexander that's coming from. your from your office, right? >> That is correct. And you also share with. us that there's other people inside of. 662 who are patting down the Mob James. crew, but you can't send any more people.

over to be there for Tupac. >> If I knew there was going to be an issue. that eventually happened, of course I. would have. I would have asked them to. stay stay in the hotel. I knew what was. going to happen. >> You you are aware that this was fight. night. this was Mike Tyson and that. everyone in the world would show up to. Las Vegas to be there for the fight, right? [clears throat]. >> There's so many people. >> Yeah. >> And in your opinion, only if you believe. that Tupac was somehow going to get a.

fight or something along those lines, would you have provided more than just. the one person? I'm just asking for your. clarification. >> I would have had an army around him if I. knew something like that was going to. happen or suspect something like that. was going to happen. But the gentleman's. that were with them and the ones that. you seen kicking on that on Mr. Anderson, those were security as well. >> That was who security. frozen style. >> But once again, that means you're.

unclear. You at this particular point. only have one security guard with all. these other people from, I don't know, from Death Row Records who are not. security guards. They're all gangsters. Mairoo. >> Yeah. >> I trust more than I trust my security. Yes. >> So more than you would trust cops and. offduty cops and retired cops, you trust. those M pyro guys? >> I do personally. >> Okay. Now, [clears throat] in addition. to that,

after. they go in for the fight, right, I'm. assuming that Frank Alexander probably. didn't have a ticket. You know, that was always an issue with. Mr. Knight. Yeah. >> He promised everybody that they can go. to the fight and when we get to the door. is always an issue, right? >> But one thing about him, he will get his. at least Mr. Shakur one security in if. not both and myself. He will make sure. we got in.

>> Okay. So they all get in for the fight. and then for some reason Bruce Seldon. takes a phantom punch, falls to the. ground in the first round within a. minute and 45 seconds. Right. >> You call it phantom if if you say so. >> I'm just looking at the tape, right? All. we got is a serious. So So he falls to. the ground, the fight is over, they leave the fight, right? >> Hyped up. You see him? >> Yeah. And Tupac was very hyped up. hyped.

up. >> So, did you get a call from Frank. Alexander saying, "Hey, the fight ended. early. We're on our way.". >> Not one. And that's not and that's. normal. >> Okay. And um I want to make sure we're. clear about the type of communication. you had. So, cell phones, I'm not sure. were available to everybody. You had. one. >> Pretty much everybody had cell phones, but they were expensive. You called me. after 7 o'clock, right? >> Back then, >> but uh. [laughter]. >> he doesn't get everyone.

But I did have next cell phones. We had. about eight to 10 of them that did dual. jobs. They my guys knew it better be. emergency to to pick up that cell phone. >> But the two-way walkie-talkies on the. next hill uh you could use it on the. call. That's how we communicated on that. picture with Bunchery. You'll see one. hanging out of his pocket. Uh that's. that's what the type of. >> Okay. next cell phones we had. >> And so going back again to what Frank.

has, Frank does have one of those. radios. >> He had one, but later learned, you know, after we do Monday back quarterbacking. and stuff that it was dead. >> So he is there. He doesn't call uh when. you leave the fight. Now, does he call. you after the situation happens with uh. Fernando Anderson? >> No, sir. >> Um. they all rush out, right? They all go. back to I think uh to Luxor. >> That's correct.

>> But you don't know that because no one. calls you. >> I haven't heard anything. Didn't know it. was an issue. >> So, you're still sitting over at 662. You're worried about making sure the. club passes inspections and you're there. and you're waiting. In the meantime, people get picked up at the Lux store. and then they're transported all the way. to Sh Knight's house. >> I mean, >> but again, if you don't know, you can. just assume. I. >> You. don't know. I don't know. Now, at some. point, they're traveling [clears throat] down.

flamingo and the shots occur at that. particular point, right? But you don't. know, >> correct? >> And so, you're sitting at the club and. you don't know. >> I wasn't sitting, but yeah. >> Oh, well, whatever. I mean, I'm sure. you're working, right? So you're working. and your concern is making sure the club. passes and that the club passes for Shai. even though his attorney's present all. these cops are on the outside and you. have the security proficiency of Mob. James on the inside right. >> and about 25 to 30 of my guys.

>> and once again yes 20 to 30 of your guys. >> correct. >> retired police officers or off duty. police officers. >> and they're all [clears throat] there. >> correct. >> and at some point you get notice that. that Tupac had been. Right. >> I got notified. Correct. >> Um, was it during the next walkie-talkie. stuff? >> No, sir. >> How did that happen? >> Mr. uh Williams and Mr. McDonald ran up. to me and told me. >> Okay. None of your people, but two of of.

the people that were associated with the. um with the death row people, >> okay? And they're the ones who told you. that, hey, something went down with uh. with Tupac. >> Correct. And so at that particular. point, what did you do? >> Uh like I said, I didn't believe him at. first initially, but we talking seconds. now. Uh Mr. Kis uh somehow, you know, verified that yeah, something's going. on. And then me observing a few of the.

uh police cars that was assigned at the. uh work the parking lot or the taking. off license sirens going towards that. way. made me believe that something's going. on. >> Now, shouldn't I ever appear at the club and. continue partying that night? >> I don't know. Um, but I have heard James. say that before, but. >> what about what just from your Monday.

night sitting down with your people. going over what should have been done. better, was there any conversation or. any way that you learned that Shook. Knight actually showed up to party the. night after the shoot? The party was. over. The party was over. It probably. they probably was still there at the. club, but it wasn't like no partying. going on, especially after people heard. what happened. I can see that. Now, um, we talked a little bit about the the. death row chain. Do you recall telling Detective Mog when. he visited with you that you sold your.

death row chain because of hard times? >> That was I had a platinum one. That's. correct. Now later on when you're. testifying to the grand jury, you. remember doing that? >> I still have my gold one if that's what. you ask. >> So uh when the question is asked in the. beginning uh about your death row. change, you never tell Detective Mog for. instance that it's a platinum one, right? >> Um. >> I don't know. Let me just.

wait. >> The camera's on. You want to turn the. camera off? Oh, sorry. So this will be page 20 21 council of. the uh surreptitious report or. recording.

So you say. question that was asked by detective. mob. Uh you were describing the chains. as cheap. He said you got he had asked. you got a $300 chain. said, "Yeah, one. of those cheap little chains." Because. they were messing around with the same. women and they got one and they got mad. about it. My presumpt. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> So what what did expensive ones look. like? Do you have a picture of those? And you said, "Yes, sir. I can show you. the one that Tupac would have." And then.

the questions asked of you by Detective. Mog. Did you ever get one of those. chains? And you respond, "Yeah, I had. one." And then the question was, "What. happened to it?" And you said, "Shit, hard times hit." And Detective Moog. commiserates and says, "Yeah, I hear. you." You said, "Got to get rid of it. somehow." And then Detective Moog asked, "What did you get for it?" And you said, "I got about 5,000." Right. >> Yeah, that was the platinum one or they. or the white gold one. I You can watch.

and I'm sure you have several. interviews, pictures of me with my gold. chain on it. I I wore them on several. YouTube videos, >> but fair to say, of course, that you. know, when you said you had one, it's. not one gold, it's not one platinum this. book. Right. >> Like I said, the one I sold was the. platinum one. >> Now, in addition to that, later on when. you're testifying before the grand jury. question that was asked by one of the. jurors was, and I want to make sure I'm. clear because I don't want to mess up. the I want to be accurate with you,

your improper. forement. >> Let me let me just do as a refreshing of. his recollection. Your honor, I just. didn't want to. >> So, it's sustained. So, he I don't know. that he said he doesn't remember. >> Okay. So, let me ask you this. You were. asked by a juror. >> Again, that's I think you have to ask.

the substantive question first. >> Mr. You're going to have to. Okay. I'm sorry. I think you have to. >> you approach. >> I can stand. I apologize, your honor. >> Everyone approach.

Sorry. Sorry. Were you asked this. question by a grand juror? >> Again, your honor, I think again the. you have to ask the predicate. He's he's. trying to impeach and or refresh. recollection about something of. substance. You have to ask procedurally.

You have to ask the substantive question. first, not where you were asked this. >> Are are you talking about the chain. question? >> Yes. >> We've gone up and down about the chain. >> And so I believe what he he's already. answered the chain things. I don't. understand. Are we impeaching or. >> No, he's impeaching saying that he's. given an inconsistent statement in the. past. So overruled he can proceed. >> Do you recall being asked a question by. a grand jury? You still have your death. row pendant. >> Correct.

>> And you had said yes, you do. >> I do. >> You didn't say there was gold. You. didn't say it was platinum. You just. said I had my death row pendant. >> That's correct. >> Okay. Now, one of the other issues that we've. talked a little bit about. is. [clears throat]. and and and once again, I apologize. Maybe the state can refresh my. recollection because maybe I was.

thinking about something else. Um, you. have been convicted of a crime. I am. >> And uh with regards to that crime, it. was a felony. >> It was sales of marijuana. >> Oh, no. Back up here real quick. It was. sales of marijuana and it was also. embezzlement. Is that what it was? >> No. >> Money laundering. >> Money laundering. Ah. >> Money going. >> And uh with regard to those two um. things that happened in California? >> Uh no actually. Well, they have the. reason why I got in trouble because it. went across state lines to Memphis. It's.

actually Memphis, Tennessee. And because. it was across the state lines, it was a. federal police. >> Correct. >> And that happened way after you were a. police officer. >> Yeah, that's 20 uh. 2019. Well, 2017, I believe. >> Okay. And at some point you become the. general manager of Death Row Records. >> That's in 1997, sir. >> 1997. >> Yes, that's correct. So Suge Knight is. in Las Vegas.

and you were with him every single day. and in September of 1996. he just happened to get in this spray. and next thing you know he's going to. prison, right? >> I'm sorry. >> Why? Let me ask you this. >> Why did Chub go to prison? >> He violated his probation. >> Right. So you knew of course that he was. on probation right before he. >> the whole time I was with him. >> You did. >> from 1994. Yes.

>> Yeah. And so you knew that the person. the number one person from death records. the primary principle for you um. potentially could go to prison if he got. into a fight for instance. Right. >> Correct. >> And on this particular night you weren't. around for him when he was in this quote. unquote fight. Right. >> I was around with Mr. night about 70 to. 80% of his life. So I guess a lot of 20%. I wasn't with him. >> Okay. >> Public even though I say that I mean.

public cuz a lot of times he laid up. sleep with somebody and I wasn't with. him. >> So in the most important time or should. Knight's life having your protection you. weren't there for? >> Unfortunately not. That's correct. >> And then you became the general manager. of death row records. >> by his calling not anyone else. >> All right. No further question. >> All right. state. Any further questions? >> Last point. Um, in terms of who. determined who was going to run Death. Row Records while Mr. Knight was in. prison.

>> Sorry. >> I'm sorry. Who determined who made you. in charge of death row records while Mr. Knight was in prison? >> He did and um I visited him four days a. week during that time uh while he was. incarcerated. Nothing. >> Anything further on that, Mr. Sam? >> Just one clarification. So, Sug Knight. made you general manager when he was in. custody. >> That's correct. >> No further questions. >> Anything else? Ladies and gentlemen of.

the jury, any questions for this one? Of. course. All right.

All right, Mr. Wright, I have a couple. questions for you from our jurors. >> First, if they knew the cell phones were. for in case of emergency, why wouldn't. they call once the shooting took place? Why did you find out later in person? >> I sure don't know why they didn't call.

me. Mr. Alexander's um responsibility. and I didn't hear from him. Didn't hear. from him. >> Okay. Was there anything in writing. regarding the transfer of management. power to you over death row records? >> I wouldn't call it power just you know. dealing with the day-to-day operation. Uh the one that. signed people artist for him. Um I mean. I I did everything for him. I deal with. his women. I deal with his parents. I.

dealt with pretty much everything while. he was incarcerated and generally. because I was going back and forth. seeing him, you know, the four days. I. spent hours on the phone with him and I. was just his point of contact person. >> So, was there anything in writing. regarding that? >> Uh, not to my knowledge of there. >> Okay. Were there any witnesses to it? >> Well, there's a young lady sitting in. here right now that I signed uh, you. know, while he was incarcerated to the. record label.

There was a a writing. >> Oh, sorry. >> You signed. What did you say? >> You don't sign her as order. >> Okay. Um, state any questions based on those. answers? >> State. >> defense. >> I do. >> Okay. >> Um, all right. So, I want to make sure. I'm clear. You become the general. manager of Death Row Records. And what. was your job responsibilities? >> I did everything to be honest. Um, I. brought Miss Shakur up to the prison to.

to meet with him. I was help talk to uh. several u you know putting the albums. together. Uh went and met with. met with um Jimmy I who was our. distributor at the time. Negotiated. deals with them. U. everything I did was approved by Mr. Knight. Uh, but I was his point of. contact. >> Did you ever have a uh power of attorney.

signed by Mr. Knight to sign on his. behalf? >> No. Um, what I would do is have. everything generated and u I would um. send it his attorney would come visit. him on Tuesdays. if it was something. real important, uh, he would sign it on Tuesdays and if I. need it before then, uh, he was qu he. was married to a young lady by the name. of Mr. Lelay, at least they she thought. they were married and, u uh, she was.

signed. She he had the power of attorney. to sign uh, but she didn't deal with. anyone. And then we also had a rubber. stamp that uh two of his um female. friends had to sign checks or to um sign. some contracts if they would take them. >> So if there was anything wrong with the. bank account, for instance, you have to. get someone else to handle that, not. you. >> I dealt with the bookkeeper generated. the checks, but his two female friends were the ones.

that stamped them. And with regards to. his two female friends here were the. employees of Deco Records. >> One was an artist, Mr. Le, uh, and then the other one, Miss. Hawkins, she was just a girlfriend. >> Now, you are aware that at the time that. um, Mr. tonight show was involved in. this thing that happened at uh in Las. Vegas and finally gets revoked on. probation that his record label was.

valued somewhere around what $500. million. >> I heard three but. >> okay. >> it was up there. >> All right. So it's a pretty significant. asset. Right. >> Correct. >> Now out of all of this you are the. general manager. You have access to all. that. >> I guess I was the one he trusted at the. time. No further question. >> Okay. All right. Thank you, Mr. Wright. You are excused and you're free to go. >> Thank you both. >> You're welcome.

>> All right, ladies and gentlemen of the. jury, that's it for the presentation of. witnesses today. We'll be in recess. Um, we're going to come back at 1:00 p.m. tomorrow uh because I have a calendar in. the morning. So, I'm going to read the. admonishment and then you're excused for. the day. During the recess, you are. admonished not to talk or converse. amongst yourselves or with anyone else. on any subject connected to the trial or. read, watch or listen to any report of a. commentary on the trial of any person. connected with this case by any medium. of information, including without. limitation, newspaper, television, internet, and radio, or form or express.

any opinion on any subject connected. with the trial until the case is. submitted to you. We'll see you guys. back here at 1 p.m. tomorrow. Thank you. Go on the river.

I think maybe. >> the record the jury has exited. Is there. anything we need to address outside. their presence? >> Not from the state. >> No, I'll be asking the state tomorrow. >> Okay, sounds good. We'll be in recess. then. See everyone back at 1:00.