The Internet Owes Denise Richards an Apology

[music]. Is this thing on? You guys, welcome to. another Dumblan podcast. I am in studio. with an absolute legend who I have been. wanting to interview for so long and. we're here in LA and I'm finally sitting. face to face with my girl Denise. Richards. How are you, baby? >> I'm good. Thank you so much for having.

me. I'm so excited. >> No, the pleasure is mine. Like, thank. you so much for just, you know, making. time for me in your day to come out and. do this interview because I'm just like. I'm so excited. I went down a wormhole. about you last night and [clears throat]. >> Oh, well, >> no, [laughter] girl. I've got them, too. So, don't worry about it. But, no, I. literally went down a wormhole and what. I discovered was is there's two Denise. Richards. There's one that the tabloids. have painted and then there's the woman. that is actually Denise Richards who has. the hugest heart and is just so kind and.

so sweet and so loving and I'm hoping. that today at the end of this interview. everybody gets to discover that one and. not what the tabloids say. >> Thank you. Thank you for saying that. >> Absolutely. But first off, we need to. talk about what's really important here. >> We got to talk about this facelift. >> Yes, >> sister. Cuz I'm I'm seeing it in person. now. It looks so good. >> So does yours. And I was so happy to see. that you were open about yours, too. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I first of. all, and this is no shade to anybody in. the industry, but if you're going to get.

work done, just [ __ ] be honest about. it. >> Yeah. And I understand if there's some. that don't want to say anything, but if. you're asked about stuff, I think. to say I couldn't say nothing, you know. No, I feel like I feel like our job, quote unquote, as people that are online. and pushing a narrative of our lives, I. feel like we owe that to the public. That might just be me, but I just feel. like we as especially as women because. there's such a false beauty standard of.

like trying to like uphold and I never. want a little girl to look at me and be. like, I want to look just like her. It's. like, girl, I don't even look like me. you know, it's like, so I always want to. be honest. >> and the pressure of other women too, seeing other women and I I wanted to be. honest with that, too, because I also. want to know what's everyone using, what. are they doing? And you know, even my. sister, she lives in Montana and she. works at a hospital. She has a. completely different job than I do. And. and you know, I'll tell her certain. things about other people that I know.

she'll keep a secret. and [laughter] she. said I it made her feel so much better. to see that more and more women um. coming out and saying different things. because I had I got my implants when I. was 19 years old and I was so private. about it. I never said anything to. anyone and I think the very first time. it was even out was Howard Stern asked. me a question and some people were. saying well you never spoke about it. I'm like well no one ever flat out asked. me you know. >> Yeah. So you didn't lie. >> right? I didn't offer the information.

>> and but then when somebody did you were. honest. >> and um you know so I I love that you did. and I you know I I think it's good to. share you know what we're doing and. different you know serums and peptides. or whatever you know someone does. So. and yours looks so good. >> So does yours your I'm like looking at. your face it's immaculate. What exactly. did you have done because I I I'll tell. you what I have done also. >> So I told So I went to Dr. Ben Tally and.

originally I had been thinking about. doing just my neck and then. >> it's the neck that always goes first. lady starts with the neck always. >> And then a friend of mine, she's very. wellknown and she's not public about. hers and she said to me, "You have to do. the whole thing." And I'm like, I don't. want to do the whole thing. I was. scared. I've never done anything. I've. done a little Botox and then I did some. fillers. I felt like I looked like 300. lb. >> when I did those. >> No. And me too. Well, I'll emphasize on. that whenever you are done telling me.

about your story cuz fillers I don't. think people realize they fill up with. water and they literally like expand. your face. >> Yeah. I was Yeah. So I so I didn't do um. didn't do much and then when I saw Dr. Ben and he explained things to me and I. thought you know what it's uh the only. analogy I could give is like if you. remodel a house and you do one room and. the room looks great but it doesn't. match the rest of the [laughter] house. And so I told him, you know, you're the. artist. His work was impeccable. I saw.

so many before and afters. And I just. said, "Do what you want to do." I was. terrified, but he did everything. He did. the lower, the neck, the lower um face, the upper, the brow lift. The only thing. he didn't do were my lower lids. He did. my upper lid. But I mean, he did the. whole thing. And I'm sorry. I don't know. if you had the brow lift, but that is no. freaking joke with the pain. >> Yeah. And okay, let's talk about the. pain because my recover I'm still numb. Are you still numb? >> I'm numb um on my under my chin here.

I'm good. When did you have yours? >> I had mine done in March. >> Okay. I had mine Oh, so you're still So. I had mine done exactly a year ago. >> Oh, okay. Okay. >> In end of June. >> So it gets better. >> It get Yeah. And that was the other. thing when I was told, "Oh, it'll it. gets better as you heal." And I'm like, "How with gravity? How are we going to. get better?" And it does. It's like your. face settles or something. It's I'm so. It was the best thing I did for myself. >> No, it looks phenomenal. And I I I don't. think people realize how big of a.

surgery it is. >> Like the recovery. I thought that I was. going to be up and walking around in. like a month and No, I mean I was down. for the count. I had to like go into. hiding for a little bit. Like it was a. lot and so freaking painful. >> It's painful. Did So with your brow. lift, were your incisions up in here? >> Yes. And then you had to pull those. things out. Did you have to pull the. stuff out of your head? >> No. I went somewhere though. He makes. his patients go to a recovery place at. least a few days and I stayed a week and. I'm so glad that I did. I don't know how.

anyone can take care of themselves after. even have someone. It's scary. You look. frightening. >> Yeah. No, it's Frankenstein. I had my. whole team had to take care of me and. every day they looked at me and they. were like [laughter]. the right I'd wake up and they'd be. like, "It looks it looks better." I'm. like, "No, it doesn't." I know it's uh. it's I trusted the process and I he um I. feel like that was the most painful. I. wasn't prepared for that pain. No. >> And I feel I have a high tolerance of. pain. Yes, ma'am.

>> Um but he explained though cuz some. people that get the brow lift, their. incision is right here and you could see. it. So I love that it's up in here about. [ __ ] balls. Does that hurt? >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] No, it's. terrible. Mine was the um the neck I. felt like I was choking. Did you get. that sensation where you felt. >> I think my head hurt so bad I didn't. notice the neck. [laughter]. >> She's like girl I had other problems. [clears throat]. >> Um but it didn't that that pain well I. heard right before I went in oh your. head could hurt and I was like oh how.

bad can you know I was a little nervous. about that and then when I was told I'll. be all wrapped up and I thought what am. I going to feel claustrophobic but. you're so out of it from that surgery. It's like I didn't even know my head was. wrapped really [laughter] until the next. day and he took it off. But um yeah, it. was it's a headache that you can't. explain. It's not like a migraine. Um. >> it's like you just had your face peeled. back headache and unless you've had your. face peeled back, you don't know what it. feels like. >> I know. Um but it does, you know, the. first night was the roughest for me.

Yeah. >> I don't know for you. >> Mine was the first night because of the. anesthesia just didn't agree with me. And I was under for like about 6 hours. and it was when I was two. >> Yeah, it was brutal. And then I think. like around day se six or seven I was. just like I want off this ride and my. doctor was like you're on it for the. next year. [laughter] I was like [ __ ] I. went off this ride. Um but circling back. to the the filler situation. Um I just. want to for the girls at home that are. listening that do get filler, just be. careful when you get it in your face.

because it literally it expands. It it. gets lumpy. it migrates to other places. in your face and then you end up having. to get it melted and getting a facelift. anyways. So, if I were you, I would just. do minimal Botox and then when the time. comes, get get that stuff peeled back. Yeah. >> And you know, I always thought I. wouldn't get a facelift and I'm one that. says never say never that. I was like, "Oh, I'm never getting cuz I I didn't. want to not look like myself.". >> But I think you look amazing. Like you. look you look like just refreshed and. like you look young. Like it looks so.

good. I'm going back on the ETH cuz he. didn't do under my eyes either. And so. I'm going back on the ETH to get the. skin pinch under the eyes and some more. fat transfer. [laughter] So I'm like, and then I'm done. I swear. >> You look amazing. And that's the thing, too. I feel when you go to someone good, it's um and that's the thing. just. because someone's a surgeon. This is the. other thing that I think it's important. for girls and young uh women and women. that aren't as young to know that it's. it's you have to go to someone really. reputable and skilled. Just because.

they're a plastic surgeon doesn't mean. they're good. Um. >> you need to look at their work um the. before and months after. Don't look. right after. Look like 6 months after, a. year after. Like you want somebody who's. going to do natural work. You don't want. to look like cat lady when you're coming. out of. >> coming out of and you look like you. But. same thing, refreshed and. >> Thank you. I appreciate the. >> version. I feel like it's never enough, you know? Like I feel like we're our. worst critics cuz we're always looking. at ourselves on cameras. [laughter].

Yeah, for sure. We're women. We're never. happy. >> And if we don't make comments on it, someone else will anyway. So your flaw, you'll see it. >> Listen, I'm so tired of the [ __ ]. internet, man. I'm tired of it. All. right. So, let's circle back and let's. talk about um before Hollywood. got a hold of you. You were born in. Illinois and your family moved to. California and you were a cheerleader. Can we like go back to, you know, when. Denise was just before Denise was known. as Denise Richards? >> Yeah. I grew up in Illinois. My dad.

worked for the phone company. We were, you know, my dad was just a hardworking. We didn't have money. Um my mom was. stay-at-home mom. They got married. My. dad was 21. My mom was um I think 16 or. 16 or 20. They had me at 17 and 21. So. he was just out of Vietnam. And uh you. know like they were young parents. >> Wow. He was a Vietnam vet. >> He's a Vietnam vet. Yeah. Right after he. got out uh he and my mom got together.

and then got married. Um. >> and had me and then my sister were a. year and a half apart. And so we just. grew up. We were I just had you know I. don't even know what normal is but just. a well we were part of the Neielen. family for people that don't know back. then that's how they saw which TV shows. were popular. They put a little Neielson. box on our TV. We were your typical. all-American family of four so they. could see the ratings and things. So you. know my mom had dinner at six o'clock.

every night. We had to make sure we were. there. Weekends were family time. We. went to church every Sunday. I was. raised Catholic. And then my dad saw a. TV show um Battle of the Network Stars. It was this competition show for people. that don't know in the late 80s um of. celebrities that would compete and it. was in January. My dad could not believe. cuz he was climbing telephone poles in. the winter in Illinois with blizzards. and stuff and he just got so tired of. the weather and. >> up and moved our family after he saw. people were wearing shorts in.

California. [laughter]. >> Don't you love how simple life was back. then? Yeah. And literally moved us. I. was had just finished my freshman year. in high school. It was such a hard move. for me to make that transition. >> And then in high school, my sister and. I, we both all we always had the same. job together. We worked at Hognaz and. BaskinRobins. I bag groceries at. Albertson's and did all that. And then. my mom entered me into a model search. and I came in second. And the an agent. from LA saw me and signed me. And so I.

started driving up to LA and started. modeling, doing teen magazine and stuff. like that. And then I went to New York. or Japan right after I graduated high. school. I can't even believe my parents. let me go. I mean [ __ ] if they knew. really [laughter] how that was. But how. was it? How was it? >> You know, I was so naive. I was just I. was a very sheltered My parents really. sheltered my sister and I. My mom was. raised in a very abusive um family and. my dad um you know his brother had a lot.

of drug addiction and so they really. sheltered my sister and I my mom said my. mom passed away years ago but she said. before that she did that you know on one. hand she felt that she sheltered my. sister and I a little too much cuz I was. so I was so naive. I was I was always. had a good um good gut instincts about. people and had a good head on my. shoulders like I never got into any you. know drugs or alcohol or the wrong. people. I was just I was too scared cuz.

my dad put the fear of God in us with. that. And so I when I started modeling. in Japan, it was what's interesting is I. was I was very flat back then. I. couldn't even fit into a Victoria's. Secret brain. And yeah, I was really. tiny. That was the model look back then. also. That's what people wanted. >> And well, actually this was No. Yeah, this was um kind of like it was. >> Kate Moss before Kate Moss, but it was. like Cindy Crawford, the voluupuous. body, the Cosmopolitan cover that all.

And so in Japan it worked because they. well they wanted me to do lingerie. And. it's funny years later I did Playboy and. all of that, but back then I remember. calling my dad. I was 18, but I looked. 15. I was I looked so young. >> And I told the agency, I'm not going to. model bras and underwear. And they. almost dropped me, but I was making. money with some of the other um jobs. that I did there. So, they kept me. My. dad was ready to fly out there and bring. me home cuz he thought it was like.

something else. And. >> did you go out there by yourself? >> I did with the modeling agency. Like, they came and scouted girls in LA and. then brought a bunch of us out there. But I flew there by myself. I Which I. can't believe it. Like I didn't know. anything. I was just so naive. >> Downtown girl on a on a flight to Japan. >> Yeah. They don't take care of us the way. they I think told the parents that they. do as far as security and stuff like. that. We were really on our [laughter]. own. Um and then I went to New York. after that and but I always wanted to.

act and so I just um moved back to LA. I. moved to LA and then um I you know lived. in several different places and just got. an agency. I was signed with the. children's division, Harry Gold, Tracy. Gold, the actress who was on Growing. Yeah. Her dad had an agency and um and I. played like 14, 15 years old. And. because I was over 18 at that point, I. was like 20, I was able to work long. hours without having to worry about. that. And so I just did build my resume. doing even one line here. Um, uh, what.

was the, um, Save by the Bell was one of. my first jobs and that's how I got my, um, SAG card between that and Zoogie. Hower. I got Tafted Heartley with one. and then the SAG card with the other. >> Your lore goes on forever. [laughter]. Like when I discovered like you did. Married with Children, Saved by the. Bell. I mean like you 90210 like this. was like the icon. This was like when. Hollywood was like Hollywood. I feel. like it's not the same anymore. And I. feel like you got to be a part of just.

history. >> I'm so grateful for that time. And I. think a lot of other actresses and. actors that I know that, you know, we. would it's such a nostalgic time driving. around with our Thomas guide. There was. no, you know, ways back then. And yeah, I would just we would just go there was. like a pilot season, you know, and. during that time of year, you would hope. you book a pilot. And because I was able. to build up my resume, I was able to, you know, audition for other jobs, but I.

was so green and but I was so focused. like I was so really loved doing it and. had my acting classes and then Married. with Children, the producers um cast a. pilot and I auditioned for that and got. it. Didn't we thought, oh, Married with. Children, it'll go to series. Um it. didn't. And then uh Aaron Spelling did a. pilot and this was around the you know. Melrose Place and 902. >> God I loved Melrose Place. I was a huge. Melrose Place fan.

>> I was too. And the 90210 I did both of. those shows as a guest star too and I. was so scared working with all the. actors. I was so intimidated and it was. harder for me to do a line. >> and just like. >> I was terrified really. >> Yes. I was just so nervous. Um, yeah, cuz sometime like a lot of those jobs I. only had a line or two, you know, and. that to me was harder to do than a scene. >> because you had to like really nail it. >> Well, yeah. And it's like you don't want. to overdo the one or two [laughter]. lines, >> right? You don't want to be too.

overzealous, >> but Yeah. But and then I So, we booked. the pilot with Aaron Spelling, a bunch. of us, and it shot it was called Pure. 66, and it shot in Florida, and we. thought this is going to be the next. Melrose Place, and it didn't get picked. up. Uh what does that feel like like. when you pour your all into like a role. and then it doesn't get picked up? Is it. like hard? >> Yeah. >> First of all getting the job like at. that time I was no one knew who I was. and so I'd have to audition several. times to you know read with other. actors. So then you get the part and.

you're so excited and then. >> especially at the level of Aaron. Spelling who has you know everything. television and same with the producers. of Married with Children at the time. Married with Children was doing so well, you'd think, "Oh, this will get picked. up and be a huge hit." And um and then. it didn't. And it's just such a let. down. But I always felt too every job. that I didn't get, that one job that I. did, it was so worth like, >> you know, busting my ass and just. working really hard and learning and.

even doing one line on set. Sometimes. I'd wait around for 12 hours before they. even got to me. And I would really watch. the other actors and try and learn and. cuz in acting class I felt like they. didn't teach us hitting your mark and. doing the one that I went to and those. are the little things that were great. for me to watch other actors and really. try to learn. And then um Starship. Troopers came. We just Paul Verhovven. actually I auditioned for. um I came close with Show Girls and then.

>> Oh with um Elizabeth that movie I to. this day is still one of my favorite. movies cuz I'm a Vegas girl. >> I know. >> So like you know during my generation of. growing up I'm 46. That was like you. know me being a dancer and stuff like. that. So that was like my um Withering. Heights. [laughter] I right. >> You know, like that was like my iconic. movie that you look up to whenever you. think of like movies growing up. >> And where were you when that came out? Like. >> I was in Vegas. Yeah. And I think uh. What year did that come out? Do we know?

I might have already been. >> 90s. Okay. So like 9596. >> So uh I think it came out in 1995. We. had them look it up. So I was 15, but I. was on my way to being a stripper, you. know. So grow growing up in Vegas back. then dancing was so much more glamorous. than it is now like and it wasn't so. oversaturated. So I always say that if. you grew up in Vegas in that era a lot. not everybody but a lot of girls wanted. to be either a show girl or a dancer and. if you couldn't make it being a show.

girl you became a dancer. So that what. what role did you. >> Elizabeth's role? >> Oh wow. Okay. Um, so when I I auditioned. for that and then um then when Starship. Troopers came around uh auditioned for. that obviously and. >> that was a long process over a few. months. They went everywhere um casting. and then it came down to like I went in. probably five or six times, Casper and I. at the end it was just us screen or. yeah, we did a screen test together and. we were like uh we found out it was just.

us. We're like well if we don't get it. we really [ __ ] [laughter] up. You know what's so crazy is that um. initially the movie didn't do great, but. then now it's like known as one of the. greatest theatrical sci-fi films ever. made. Like it's a cult classic. >> I know. It's so funny how I just started. going to ComicCon's about a year and a. half ago with them with the cast from. Starship. And it's just so humbling. meeting the fans and how their kids. watch it. I My kids haven't even seen.

the movie. I [laughter] don't even I. think for a long time they didn't even. know I was in it. I think it's because. you're mom, you know? So, I was like, "We see you every day. We don't need to. see you on the [laughter] movie screen.". It's like when I wrote my book, my. family didn't even read it until I was. like, "Can you guys read the book, please?" You know, >> but I think it's because they're just. they know the real us. So, it's like. they don't need to, you know, see our. art, I guess, is what you could say. >> I agree. It's funny cuz they don't even. know half the stuff I've been in. Sammy. saw a TikTok of me on Friends and she. was like, "Mom, you did Friends?" And I. said, "Yeah." She goes, "Why didn't you.

tell me?" And I said, "Well, what am I. supposed to say?" Oh, by the way, [laughter]. >> I did Friends. >> Let's Let's pivot real quick um as. before we get into the your your Wild. Things era. Um and talk about your girls. because I follow um is it's Sammy. I. follow Sammy on TikTok. I love her. She's spicy. >> She's very spicy. >> She But you know what I feel like, and. we can cut this out if you want me to, but I feel like she's kind of Charlie's. karma in a way. [laughter]. >> You don't have to cut it out. I feel like she gives him a run for his.

money, you know, and he needs that. I. >> um he does because she out of all the. kids I feel stands up to him the most. >> And um you know, and he does need it, >> you know, we all do. And but uh yeah, she's uh she's I love that she I wish I. had her confidence when I was her age. However, I do wish sometimes she. filtered herself [laughter] a little bit. when she's saying stuff. Sometimes.

>> you're like, "Can we not have another. headline, please?". >> Right. But I'd rather her be the way she. is than, you know, have to I love that. she's not afraid to be who she is, and. that's something that I really admire in. her. And she and Lola could not be more. opposite. >> It's so opposite. And that's what I was. just about to say. She's so like sweet. and loves Jesus. And then, you know, we. got Sammy over here who's OF model and. like doesn't give a flying f of what's.

going on. So, yeah. No, how did you. raise such polar opposite children? >> I don't know. [laughter] That's the. thing. Well, and my dad reminded me, my. sister and I are very opposite, too. >> Um, but. >> I don't know. I They don't even look. alike, my girls. >> No, not at all. [laughter] Not at all. >> Looks like I was with the milkman or. something. It's crazy because they both. look like both of you in different ways. It's really crazy if you see like I. watched an interview with the three of. you guys uh you and your girls yesterday.

and you can see like the mannerisms, the. eyes, the like facial structure like one. of them like you can see Charlie and. both of them. You can see you and both. of them. So, it's like I don't know. It's like a perfect mixture and they're. both beautiful. >> A thank you. >> Yeah, of course. And you're just such an. amazing mom. You really are. >> Thank you for saying that. raising. children in the limelight is not easy. I. haven't had to do it to the extent that. you have, but um considering everything. that you've been through and had to. bring those babies along with you is a.

testament of the woman that you are. because they're such good. They're good. kids, you know? Like Sammy's not hurting. anybody. She's just on TikTok, living. her life, you know? And. >> it's funny. Sometimes she'll say. something. I'm like, you posted that? Yeah. I'm like, all right. [laughter]. What is your relationship like with both. of them? >> I have a good great relationship with. both of them. Right now they're living. together. >> Oh wow. >> Or staying together. I shouldn't say. they're living together. They're staying. together. >> That's amazing because I did see a. little they had like a little tiff.

online a couple months ago and she's. like, "Oh yeah, it's normal.". >> I [clears throat] know. They'll um. Exactly. they'll get into it, whatever, and then I'll they'll call me from. lunch. And I'm like, "I'm so glad the. sisters are [laughter] getting along. right now." Um, yeah. No, we It's funny. because I have a They're more open with. me than I was with my mom when I was. their age. And I had a great. relationship with my mom, but I think I. was always afraid of being judged and I.

was always very um, you know, careful. Even when I did interviews and stuff. like that, I just was. >> not 100% myself a version like a part of. me. there was things I held back and. stuff because um I was just such a. people pleaser and I love that the girls. are just and I don't know if it's. because of their generation that they're. so exposed to so much online and that. sort of thing or if it's because they. were raised in Hollywood and um you know. and that's something too they both have.

said to me that it's hard to be kids of. famous parents and and I can't even. relate to that because I grew up in. Illinois and I didn't have to deal with. you know from the time they were babies, the paparazzi were at the hospital and. so you know to them it's normal but it. has effect had an effect on them. Um. >> not necessarily ne you know negative. it's different from how some of their. other friends and how I was raised. >> but um and I can't imagine you know.

being now for them to even even stuff. going on in my life for them to hear. about it. It's weird, you know, and with. with my divorce with her their dad, they. were so little. I thought, okay, by the. time they're older, >> they're not going to hear anything. Well, the internet has changed. tremendously since they [laughter] were. >> Yeah. And it's like they'll bring up. [ __ ] from 20 years ago and it goes viral. and you're like, "Wait, what is. happening?" [laughter]. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You can't hide anything. But I. think to circle back to what you said. about um that they're more open with. you. I think that shows that you've.

created such a safe space with them that. they are they feel safe enough with you. to come to you and tell you everything. So that's amazing also. >> Thank you. I I try to raise them in that. and my mom did raise me that like my mom. was never judgmental for me. It was more. of being a people pleaser. But I've. tried to raise the girls to not we don't. judge. We may not agree with people's. choices but to not judge. And I may not. agree with certain things they say or.

do, but that I'm not making it's hard. like I just I'm not saying you can't do. that or don't do that or don't be who. you are. I might not agree with certain. ways just like they don't agree with. certain ways things. Believe me, they've. told me things that [laughter] I do. >> You're like, I did it for you. you know. >> Um, so when it comes to their. relationship with their father, which. we'll get into Charlie in a little bit, um, can we touch base on both of their. relationships with Charlie and like how. do you encourage them to have that. relationship? Cuz to me, and this is me.

speaking freely, is that he seems like. he's kind of hard to get along with. So. just from what I've gathered from. Sammy's Tik Toks and stuff like that, too. >> Well, I think so. During our divorce, which was so public, I. I wanted the girls to have their. relationship with him without. um you know any negativity around it. I. wanted. I wanted them to know their dad as dad,

not as Charlie Sheen, because there was. many years where I didn't know if he was. going to be here. And I didn't want the. kids to only know about their father. from what they were going to read about. him. And so every any time he was in a. good space where they could spend time. with him, I encouraged it. I never spoke. badly about him in front of the kids, I. never would. Anyone that was hired in in. my house, I like the [ __ ] stays out the. door. You don't we don't talk negatively.

about him at all. and to the point where. they've discovered things later like why. didn't you tell me this about you know. and I'm sure there's things that they're. saying to their dad why didn't you tell. me this about mom so it goes both ways. and I know that but um I really wanted. to protect the innocence of the. fatherdaughter relationship as much as I. could and there's no handbook for it too. and I didn't know that was such a crazy. insane time it got more insane actually. after we were divorced like during.

>> his marriage to Yeah tiger blood phase. and. >> yeah, which we'll get into that a little. bit. And um Jesus Christ and then you. know with his poor she's like I'm just. trying to live. >> Oh, it's [laughter] like I would get. dragged into all of that. But you know, I will say even Charlie always knew too. that no matter what I was there for him, he could call me at 2:00 in the morning. and if he needed my help and I would be. there. And. >> I think that's the most amazing gift. that you could ever give somebody is. them knowing that you will always be. there for them. Sometimes it's selfless. on on your part or our parts or women.

who do that. But at the same time, I. think um undying loyalty is just so. special and so priceless. >> Oh, thank you. It was um I wanted him to. be the best version of himself that he. could be and I always supported him. I. always kept his secrets. I never. extorted him. Um it made me sad seeing, you know, some of the people that were. around in his life that were doing. things. It was hard to watch actually. Um, but you know, even if he would get.

mad at me about something or whatever, he still he knew he could count on me. and he knew he could tell me anything. and I wasn't wouldn't judge him. I. wouldn't I would be there. And so we. went through a really, you know, up and. down time um over the years. >> Yeah, absolutely. [laughter] So, when it. comes to the girls, how is their. relationship with him now? >> Right now, it's um. I think it's it's good. Um, it it has. its moments because,

you know, sometimes it's better than. others. Um, >> which is normal, I think, for teenage. girls and their dads, too. I do think. that's normal, you know, and that's how. it is for teenage girls and their moms, too. You guys, there's going to be. sometimes you guys like each other, and. there's going to be sometimes you don't, and it just happens. I do think that. there should come a time um where they. should really. talk to their dad because so much. happened when they were growing up and.

ask him questions and why and and feel. that, you know, because there would be. times where he wouldn't show up on. Christmas and I would I would have to. lie and make up stuff and I protected. him. I would say I wasn't going to tell. them the truth. How do you tell this to. little girls? what's really going on. And some people were would judge me and. they're like, "You got to tell them what. like how do I say that?" You know, they're already. >> um so fragile and going through, you. know, it's even though I try to keep as. much from them as possible, they're.

aware. They pick up on energy and and. also there was a time their brothers. lived with us for about a year, >> so obviously they knew some [ __ ] was. going on there. And um you know, it was. I did the best I could. I it wasn't. perfect. And there's probably a lot of. things I would have changed and done. differently. But, you know, I think that. there's in my opinion, I feel there's. still like the elephant in the room that. >> them they're all not addressing. And I.

hope one day that they feel comfortable. enough and safe enough where they could. just be open and say certain things. Um, Charlie's very, we have a great. relationship. He lives close to us. actually and his boys live with him. right now and um. >> you know I can give him [ __ ] and joke. around with him and. >> you know he respects me and I respect. him too and I want only the best for him. and want him to do well and he knows if. he needs anything I'm here and and I. think it's important for us always to.

maintain a relationship. We have that we. have our daughters and and that would be. something that I think along the way. that was hard for him. I would say, "No. matter what's going on with you and I, let's put our [ __ ] aside and they don't. need to be dragged into anything." Yeah. >> You know, and oftent times that wouldn't. happen and it is what it is, but um at. the end of the day, he knows that I only. have their best interest in his too. >> Yeah. Is there a part of you that still. feels like you might be in love with. Charlie? >> No. And that's the thing like some.

people I think misunderstood like in. with uh I did his documentary. I didn't. see the second part. I saw the first. part. Um, I love him as their dad. >> Yeah. >> You know, I And it's it's not even a. brother sister relationship. It's. >> best. You guys have been through some. [ __ ]. >> Yeah. Um, I wouldn't say best friends, but. [laughter]. >> we're [gasps] friends, >> but but I mean, [clears throat] do you. know what I can't talk to him the way I. can talk to some other friends of mine.

And I I I love him as their I will. always have love for him being their. dad, but as far as like a romantic love, no. Um. >> at all. Um. >> I'm glad we cleared that up because I. did watch the documentary and from the. way they shot the documentary, it kind. of made it they I don't want to say they. made it seem like you still had like. feelings for him, but just there's so. much emotion there with you guys. >> I think there's a lot of emotion because. there was things that he didn't even. know, >> right? a lot that he did not know and.

how I had to like navigate so much [ __ ]. a lot. >> Let's talk about it. We'll go we'll. circle back to the Wild Things thing in. a in a minute, but you and Charlie So, take me back to when you and Charlie. first met. You guys met on um the. filming of Good Advice. >> Yeah, we met um when we did that movie. together and at the time I was with my. ex who he passed away a couple months. ago. um Patrick Mulune. Wow. >> Um he was a friend of mine of 37 years. and we were on and off for like 5 years.

and at the time we were still together. when I met Charlie and. >> and then Charlie was going off to do. Spin City and then a year later I um. Patrick and I had just broken up and. then I did like an arc of four episodes. on Spin City and it was during Spin City. that we started to date. >> and then and there was it was like over. a period of I think two months that I. was doing the show cuz sitcom it's a. couple weeks on a week off whatever and. we thought we're not going to tell. anyone but it was quite obvious that we.

weren't [laughter] dating. >> But like what a hot couple dude. Young. Charlie Charlie Sheen and then you I. mean come on dude like young Charlie was. hot. >> He's very handsome. >> Yeah. No, he's still very handsome. >> Is he? I. uh. >> you know and he's very shy. And when I. met him [clears throat] people think. that oh she reformed the bad boy. That's. not the case. He was I don't know the. person that well I got to know after you. know [laughter] during the tiger blood. days but at the time I didn't know the. person the person I met was had been.

sober for four and a half years went to. AA was very focused and just uh a very. calm nurturing person and that's who I. fell in love with. And. >> do you think that's the real Charlie? >> I don't know cuz I went back and forth. with that too. Like on one hand I do. know that you know whatever went. sideways with our marriage the one thing. I don't doubt is I don't doubt that he. didn't love me. I really believe that he. loved me, you know,

>> but I feel I was also very ignorant and. uneducated in addiction and many people. would ask me when I got together with. him, are you aren't you afraid he's. going to relapse? And. >> I naively said no. And it and I think. part of it I didn't know that person. >> No. Especially because your dad dealt. with addiction, so he sheltered his. brother so much from it, right? Yeah. dealt with the addiction with his. brother, so he sheltered you from it so. much. And then you marry an addict,

which is, you know, it just that just. goes to show that generational trauma. and curses are always at play. >> Yeah. And even being growing up in young. adult in Hollywood, I and I know people. are not going to believe this, but I had. never seen cocaine because I people that. I was close with knew I didn't do drugs. It actually scared me. I was not I. didn't see it until during his tiger. blood days. That was the first time I. actually saw a Coke in person. >> Wow. Tell me about this story. >> Well, there's many with that. [laughter].

>> She's like, "There's not just one.". >> No, there's several. Um, yeah. No, I was. so naive. And then when things went. sideways, they went sideways. But during. his tiger blonde days, I I would, you. know, his security would often call me. to help him because they would get fired. if they knocked on his bedroom door. They would He was just so bad. It was. just really bad. He was like in the the. deep deepest like rock bottom of. addiction. >> And it was actually a shame the people. around him because he was on such a hit. show, made a boatload of money and they.

didn't want, you know, they. almost in a weird way enabled it. >> I feel like any man that has a certain. amount of money, for some reason, everybody around them starts becoming a. yes man. Oh yeah. and nobody tells them. no. The ego goes way out just crazy and. then they're literally spiraling hitting. rock bottom. It's like a tale as old as. >> Yeah. Cuz if they did say no, he'd fire. them, right?

>> So if you wanted to work for him, you. had to do what he wanted. I don't think. he'll care that I'm sharing that. But um. you know it was hard for me to watch. that. everyone turning their head to how bad. he was and almost propping him up to do. his show at that point. >> I feel like during your guys's divorce. back in that time um the tabloids really. villainized you. >> Um. >> how are you feeling during this? Like. you're literally you're you you're 6.

months pregnant, >> right? You file for divorce. What was. that factor of like everybody's always. like oh well what made you leave and. it's like what was your your decision to. just start your life over is how I would. like to. >> I've never publicly said what there was. an incident where I had no choice I felt. to I had to get out. >> and um and that's when I filed um. >> and then. we uh kind of reconciled a little bit.

right after that and part I knew it. wasn't going to work. But I felt, you. know, I came from my mom and dad were. married until death do us part until my. mom passed away. And so that was my role. model and I didn't want to be divorced. So I wanted to know too that if my girls. ever talked to me about it that I could. honestly tell them I did everything I. could to try to keep the marriage. together even though I knew it wasn't. going to work. And so we did. We. reconciled shortly. And then after that, you know, it's a whole, it was a. different time, too. And I was telling.

the girls this, there wasn't on. Instagram where instantly there would be. stories out there. It was a weekly. tabloid. So, and it would run all week. and then there would be another thing. And there was a time I think I was on. the cover of all these tabloids for 2. and 1/2 years in total. >> I'm going through I'm going through it. right now with my divorce. Everything we. do is a freaking headline. And it's just. like it's I couldn't even imagine going. But uh so. >> it was an awful time for me because I. had never gotten bad press before, right?

>> And I felt that I'm I'm just trying to. protect my girls and my it the hard. thing with all that too was that it. affected my career. >> Right. That's what I was going to say. Like what's the hardest thing? Is it. like surviving that situation or just. the people not believing you that are. around you? Um, the people that were. closest to me knew the truth and. >> but then there were people that. >> there were people that worked for me. that were starting to believe the. tabloids and I was so shocked.

>> and I said and and then people came out. >> even though it's how did you sit like. how did you sit so idle and just take it. on the chin like that because that is so. that you are beauty you are grace. because that's like I have the hardest. time cuz I have the podcast so anytime. something comes up I'm like hey guys, you know, like and but you didn't do. that. You sat just so. >> it was hard. I Well, first of all, I. didn't know it would go on as long as it. did. And I think in hindsight, if. someone said, "You're going to have to. deal with this for a few years." I think. I would have said, "Well, [ __ ] that. I'm. going to say something." Um, it was.

very, very difficult because also he was. on a network television show owned by a. studio. >> and he was like loved by everyone, you know. Um, men wanted to be him and. women wanted to be with him. And I was. just. >> But to turn on the woman is so crazy, too. >> I I know, but it happens. And they just. think, "Oh, she's the gold digging [ __ ]. that's trying to take him down." And I. just tr I really just wanted to protect. the girls. And later he thanked me, you.

know, he knew um. >> I didn't know it'd be so public. I was. surprised by that. >> And I really thought, well, this is my. personal life. Why can't we separate it? I lost jobs. I couldn't work. It that. was so hard for me. And at one point I. really had to. form a bubble around myself because I. thought and I have a really good family. Um we're really close and if it weren't. for them, who knows what would have.

happened or my close, you know, core um. friends who are my family too. I could. have gone one way or the other. Like it. was to where I was like I can't go into. a depression and feeling like everyone. >> hates me and this it was awful awful and. >> you know I just had to block everything. out and I told everyone I don't I can't. read anything I can't hear about it at. the end of the day what matters is my. daughters and my family and my core. group and. >> you know when at the end at the end of.

the day what's there for you is them and. do I really have I don't I felt like the. truth will eventually come out. I didn't. want to be the one to say stuff. I only. said stuff um mostly in court documents. Sometimes as years went on in. interviews, I would briefly say certain. things, but I always tried to be. respectful. Um because anytime I if I. did say anything, it would backfire. anyway. You know, >> they twist your words and. >> they twisted it. But then it was. interesting then when stuff went down, then it flipped. And then.

[clears throat] even the studio when. they things happened with him, they. would pull my documents from court and. use that as their defense, which I get, but it was hard to have everyone [ __ ] on. me and to where I couldn't get a job. It. was really tough. >> Do you still hold anger for that or do. you look back at it compassionately now. and kind of like. >> You mean towards Charlie or towards. everyone or the people that were. >> I mean it's like PTSD, you know? >> Yeah. I I didn't have anger at it. I had. hurt that I was so misunderstood, you.

know, and that how could that be. portrayed that way with, you know, I was. just trying to protect my daughters. I. wasn't, you know, trying to um tear. anyone him down. You know, I wanted him. to be the best he could, but I also. wasn't going to put my kids in a certain. situation that I didn't feel was safe. >> Your mama bear. >> Yeah. And so that was just that was a. very difficult time. And then I lost my. mom during that time which was really. awful. And.

>> I just felt like. >> I couldn't let my life crumble. I had. two babies. You know, Sammy and Lola. were a are a year apart. >> They're 15 months apart. Irish twins. >> Yes. [laughter]. >> So, you're going through all of this. You're in the you guys are having the. most brutal divorce publicly. And in the. midst of his whole tiger blood era, you. take in his two twins from his other. marriage to uh Brooke is her name. >> And I remember watching that as it was.

happening and I even thought to myself. like this woman is a saint. Like you are. literally getting drugged through the. freaking media and just left and right. You can't do anything right. And in the. midst of it all, you go and you save. these babies and you have them live with. you. You said earlier for about a year. about a year they were. >> what put that what what's going through. your mind as you're taking these babies. in and. >> in this situation. >> they what a lot of people don't know is. before that happened I was watching them. quite often and Brooke whenever she she.

would call me and ask me can you take. the boys um and I would take them and. sometimes it would be like for a few. weeks and then they would go back to her. and so their preschool got to know me. They got to know my dad, you know, we. got them to school and and then she. would take them back and it would just. be pretty um I'd be accused of all kinds. of stuff like and I and then every time. I'd be like next time she calls I can't. do this. It's too much drama. But at the. same time I wanted to be there for the.

boys and it's my daughter's brothers. And then when the state got involved um. that they would ask like the people in. the boys's lives who would be the best. person to take them um and they had said. me and and so then the state asked you. know or there's a whole thing with that. too which is very difficult which I. didn't know um it's a difficult process. to go through and to be part of actually. um so you know I had them for almost a.

year. And uh and then they went I believe to. Brook's brother after after me. >> Um and then I didn't see them for quite. a few years which was really hard. >> So but. >> do you still have a relationship with. them? >> Yeah. Good. >> I do. Yeah. We reconnected a few years. ago and I'm so glad and they remember. they were little. >> but I you know and a lot of people asked. me about that too and it's. >> they're they're my daughter's brothers.

too. So whatever is going on with all of. us adults, it's it is what it is. And. you know that I would. >> I couldn't imagine my brothers or. sisters not, you know, being in the. state system and having to go live with. foster parents that no one even knows, right? >> So I wanted to be there and to help them. even though it was very difficult being. part of that whole system. >> Um but I, you know, wanted to do what I. could for them. >> It's amazing what you did. What's your.

relationship with Brooke uh these days? >> Um I haven't seen her in a long time, unfortunately. Uh you know, she's been. dealing with her addiction. Um. >> and it's uh it's sad and it's tough. Um. you know, I know that we'll talk again. and the. >> Do you have an open door policy? >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah, >> I do. >> Like when you're when you're better, come see me. >> Or call me, you know, whenever. Even. when she's not better, she can call. Um,

I'll still talk to her and stuff. >> Where do you think your compassion comes. from? Because you have so much. compassion for people and so much. empathy even when it's not being. reciprocated. >> Um, I think it's how I was raised by my. parents. My mom, you know, I Charlie. would be like, "Were you raised in a. [ __ ] circus?" like with your. [laughter] family, all of these pe I. grew up, you know, my grandma owned a. bar in Wisconsin and there would be. these, you know, uh, customers that, you.

know, don't they have one leg or. whatever. and [laughter] my my grandpa. had a whole hand and you know and when I. was explaining our relatives and he. asked me that I'm like well [ __ ] I. [laughter] didn't even look at everyone. that way but I think I just grew up with. you know a lot of uh people in our in. the family that had certain things going. on and my mom would always just we just. didn't judge and we just love people and. embrace them and I didn't grow up with. money and so I anytime as I started.

making money too and see people that are. less fortunate or need help with. something, I want to be there and help. But I I think it obviously I think. obviously my mom and dad. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, let's go back to. the Wild Things because we cannot have. the podcast without talking about Wild. Things. Let me get to to it in my notes. because do you feel like Wild Things was. kind of like your breakout that like. kind of made you. >> Yeah. >> a household name? And I know it was. because of the kiss, but I mean I just.

think the whole movie in that whole era. was, you know, freaking iconic. So take. me on this journey with Wild Things. >> So I had just shot Starship Troopers and. audition for Wild Things completely. Oh, and by the way, in Starship Troopers, Paul Verhovven before we started. shooting, we had a big um we got to do. pre-production, which doesn't happen on. a lot of movies, but this one it did. where we had a couple months to prep and. everything. He called me into his office. and he said, "Um, so I wrote a scene and. he showed it to me and you're going to.

be topless in it and this and that." And. I was scared to death. Like I worked so. hard to get this movie. Mind you, I. auditioned for Show Girls, right? >> And [laughter] I said, "Yeah, you been. naked the whole time.". >> Yeah. And so I said to Paul, I said, "Paul, um, I don't I I can't do that. scene. It's not.". >> And he's like, "Well, you would have you. were going to be naked for me in shows.". I go, "Yeah, but that's a completely. different heart. It's a different. >> This is just Yeah. I said, "This makes. no sense for the scene. If I was in the. shower scene with everyone else, okay,

yeah, you're naked in a shower, but this. is just so you could see my tits." And I. said, "I just" [laughter] And I I left. I drove away crying, called my agent. I. said, "I think I just got [ __ ]. fired.". >> Oh, no. >> And then he was like, "What do you. mean?" I told him I was so scared I was. going to get fired. So, cut to I. auditioned for um Wild Things and uh. John McNotton, the director of Wild. Things, spoke to Paul and asked how I. was to work with and saw some dailies. cuz Starship hadn't been out yet. >> And then I just I read with Nev when and.

I got the part and I was so nervous to. do not only is it's not just topless. >> Yeah, you're making out. >> Yeah. Back then I had a threesome with a. teacher. It was like [laughter] so. inappropriate the whole thing. I feel. like the movie was brilliant though and. people. >> I liked the script. >> literally I feel like it was a brilliant. movie and that just because of that. shock value moment it just literally. like just took over the whole movie and. like so I think did you feel like it got. lost in translation because of that.

scene? Um, not really. I because I think. a lot of people thought from the. trailer, oh, we get to see two girls. naked with each other kissing and then. um, you know, threesome with the. champagne cuz there were certain things. that ended up in the trailer. But I. think then when once people saw the. movie, they saw, oh, there's a story. here. There's some plot twists at the. end. And at the, you know, at the time, you know, Nev was off of uh Scream and. Party of Five and Matt Dylan was. Something about Mary and you know these. I was the unknown in the movie and um I.

was terrified to shoot that movie. Very. scared. >> Can you take us to the day of filming. that scene? >> Yeah. Well, the first scene we did. um I believe it was Neb and I was we did. that one first. The fir the pool scene. >> The pool scene was the first scene. No, not the first scene. Sorry. The first. naked scene. [laughter]. >> Okay, I got you. I got you. I was like, damn, they threw you to the wolves. >> Yeah. No, we were we shot for three. months down in South Beach. Um, and it.

was great to film there and be on. location. I was scared again. I was like. the nobody and all these big actors that. I was working with and I was so. intimidated. Um, we waited to shoot. those scenes because the director, he. wanted us to be comfortable and I'm so. glad that he didn't do [laughter] it. right first week up. >> like as you guys worked together and got. to know each other more and stuff like. that. >> Wanted us to be a little bit more. comfortable. Um, I think Yeah. And so it.

was I felt comfortable w with Nev and we. just talked to each other. It was. actually easier to shoot with her that. way than with a guy cuz like with a girl. you can say, "Can you we can share our. insecurities or parts of our body or. whatever." I felt more comfortable. saying, "Do you mind like blocking. this?" But I would feel. >> insecure to say that I don't necessarily. want to point that out. And especially I. was so young and you know it was one of. my first big jobs, too. So I wasn't.

going to necessarily. >> What is Denise Richards insecure about. in this moment? Well, it's No, I mean, I. was in every I mean, I everything. I was. so naive, so young. Um, and. not and intimidated by them because they. were just. >> the big dogs. Yeah. And Matt Dylan was. fine back in the day. >> Yeah. He very. >> That was his era. >> Yeah. So, and also it was and the. content of the movie and back then it. was very risque for the time.

>> and I think because they actually. thought I was younger than I was. They. kept asking and you know you didn't have. to hand over the way you do all your and. I I'm like no I'm really I think I was. 25. 25 or 26 but I was like a young 25 26. year old. >> you still have a young essence to you. like sitting across from you now you do. you're young you appear to be younger. than you are so that's just a. >> beautiful my face left [laughter]. >> it's a beautiful blessing that you got.

in this life sister. But I was also just naive and um you. know I didn't Anyway, there was a lot of. [ __ ] that happened on that. Um. >> what is your favorite scene that is in. Wild Things that nobody ever asks you. about because of the scene obviously. that everybody wants to know about. Is. there like another scene that you love? >> Um. I mean well I'll tell you the people. that I I I always remember like off. camera when I'm working like when even. people ask me what's your favorite movie. and stuff like that. I always think of.

the moments that all of us actors off. camera or a time in my life. Um, I. really enjoyed working with Kevin Bacon. >> and Teresa Russell, uh, who played my. mom. She was awesome and she was so good. at giving me advice. And then, you know, Bill Murray was down the hall. >> I freaking love Bill Murray. >> And he would run, I would see him going. to the gym and he'd run with his cup of. coffee, like a a ceramic cup. It was. like to go cup and going on the. treadmill and I just thought he was so.

funny. Um he was great with me by the. way. It's not him that was. inappropriate. >> Um but uh it was I I really it was great. to work with Kevin and um Teresa in. particular. They were very protective of. me I felt and watched over me and gave. me you know really good advice. Um. >> Kevin's an OG. He he was just in. something new that we were looking. through movies the other night and I was. like Kevin Bacon still acting like. that's crazy. >> I love he had his wife and his kids.

there and he's a family man and just. very professional and very he's a class. actor. >> He seems like it and never never any. weird [ __ ] has ever came out about him. Like he's just like a stand up dude. >> No, he's a good person. So that I I. really enjoyed working with them. And. then but when Wild Things came out, it. was Starship Troopers came out and then. like and we went on a huge press tour. with all of that. And then four months. later, Wild Things. >> Hovind was the [clears throat] first to. call me. >> He was he was very complimentary. He's.

like, "So you got naked for [laughter]. you wouldn't get naked for me, but you. got naked for this movie." And I'm like, "Well, Paul, it's a threesome scene.". And you know, [laughter] it does. warrant, I guess, some clothing to come. off. He was very Look where it got me. >> And very com he was very um he was great. though. >> A. >> Yeah, but that was a a very crazy time. when all that hit at once. >> That's what I was about to say. Like you. hit like the jackpot and it just all of. a sudden that's when you just get. >> you know shot off into stardom. >> Yeah. It's overwhelming too when I look.

back. I think wow that was a lot and I. didn't even realize it. >> But it's like when it's like you're in. [ __ ] fight or flight. you're like in. survival mode when you're going through. stuff like that and like your trajectory. is just going up and up and up. It's. almost like it's so hard to live in the. moment. Do you feel like you didn't get. to live in the moment as much as you. should have? >> Um, no. I What was weird for me was to. see if I I did a lot of press and. different magazine shoots and stuff and. where people were saying I was a sex. symbol. Like I didn't see that girl. I.

saw the girl like in sweats and like you. know hanging out with my friends and um. so that's what was surreal for me look. when I look back now at all of that and. then after that I did Drop Deadad. Gorgeous and then Bond was like yes. >> worldwide I had no idea how the. magnitude of that movie and so you know. when they say like oh fame happens. overnight it's like you work for 10. years and it takes that one job though. that changes you go from no one knowing. you to people knowing who you are And.

that part is I think what's overwhelming. um. >> as a young actress and actor when that. hits. >> Did it ever get um I don't know if the. word annoying is probably the perfect. word to use here, but did it ever get um. did it ever put a bad taste in your. mouth that everybody was so focused on. your looks. >> um. >> and like a lot of pressure too? What was. hard was when I wanted to try and play. other roles of a girl with a little bit.

more substance. And it's like [laughter]. you, you know, I was looked at a certain. way. And I thought, well, I have issues. I have [ __ ] that I'm insecure about. I've had crap that's happened in life. that, you know, just because someone. looks a certain way doesn't mean that. they don't have [ __ ] going on, you know? So that's when it would get hard for me. is when I would want to play this role. like they don't see you that way. I'm. like why I and even though they you know. my agent knew me knew me very well. >> and you know that that was always a um.

you know a battle when I was trying to. play other roles that were more girl. nextdoor or you know something a little. different. I wasn't seen that way at. all. >> Especially back then like the 90s and. the 2000s was like the bombshell era. So. they were just pushing that narrative of. like, you know, hot, beautiful women, which. >> can we bring it back cuz I kind of miss. that [laughter] era, you know, like I. understand that we all we all have. brains and stuff like that, too, but I. just feel like it was such an iconic. time where there were so many beautiful. women and like talented women and I.

don't know, it was just a really cool. >> I agree with you and and going back to. what you said didn't annoy me. I I. didn't realize that the level of being. seen that way. Like I didn't know until. now I do looking back. Do you know what. I mean? I didn't know that people knew. who I was. I never thought of myself. that way. >> Um and having people now I'm like, "Oh, I didn't look so bad. I wish I embraced. that more." Do you know what I mean?

Like it was uh to me that was a. character. And but I also it's not you. know I certainly didn't help it by doing. shoots where I mean I didn't exactly. look like girl [ __ ] next door in. these shoots either [laughter]. >> so I didn't you know and but I think I. was I shied away from it too. I don't. think I embraced my sexuality. um at that age and during that time I. was very careful with interviews and. being a people pleaser. I don't want to, you know, that was the other thing when.

I did Bond, when we did this big press. tour, we had to do media training and. that actually made it worse. I felt like. I felt like, oh god, I have to be. rehearsed so much. Yeah. And I felt like. I couldn't be myself. You know what the. silver lining with my divorce with. Charlie and having so much bad [ __ ] said. about me. That is what freed me to be. myself because I was like, well crap, if. I'm being careful and people are saying. this, then I'm just going to be myself. and who cares if someone doesn't like me. or they say something. So, that was the. one good thing that came out of uh all.

that bad press was I got to be my me and. not just. >> being careful what I say in interviews, you know? >> I also feel like that's growth because. as women, I feel like when we're in our. 20s and even 30s, we're like so people. pleasers. We're like so unsure of. ourselves. We care about what everybody. thinks. And then you hit your 40s and. your late 40s and your 50s and you're. just kind of like, I don't give a [ __ ]. what anybody thinks about me. Like, I'm. just going to be me. And I think that.

that that is the beauty of aging, especially in this industry, is because. we develop so much wisdom and people get. to see that, you know, more so with you, but they get to see the growth through. all the years. >> I agree. I think as we get older, we. care glass about that. Yeah. Um, and. that's what I like about my daughter. Sammy is she has the confidence to just. be herself and I wish I had that back. then too, you know. >> Absolutely. >> So, let's talk about Eloise a little. bit. Um, you take me on this journey.

with her and adopting her, bringing her. into your life. >> Um, how did motherhood. change with you and the girls, but then. also raising Eloise? So, I've always. wanted to adopt and after my divorce. with Charlie, I didn't want to I didn't. want to not have another I knew I felt. like there was another soul and that um. I wasn't done and I wanted to start the. adoption process on my own and I.

thought, well, if another man comes into. my life, I don't know how long this is. going to take, then you know, it is what. it is and otherwise I'll do this by. myself. And she was um there were quite. a few different situations that um it. was a closed adoption. I wanted to do um. a closed private and she was number 13. >> Lucky number 13. >> And yeah and um when she was born she. special needs and we I did not know you. know and and it wouldn't have changed.

anything. I still would have you know. become her mom. Um, but it was really. hard to diagnose her. And uh, but when I. first adopted her, the girls, the Sammy. and Lola were six and seven years old. when she was born. And right away they. felt like. >> I had her and they still they say it and. they just such great big sisters. They. would feed her. They loved um, from day. one. It felt like she was their sister. She is their sister. And but as Eloise.

wasn't meeting certain milestones, um. because I didn't give birth to her, I. you know, we first thought, okay, she's. just a late developer. Um if I had given. birth, we would okay, this isn't. typically genetically with my other. girls. Um, but then it was really tough. trying to figure out what was going on. and all these tests and uh went to. Children's Hospital and finally did like. a genetics test on her. It was so.

expensive this test. >> and with insurance it was $15,000. Wow. Yeah. And then um then they had to test. her a couple times after they narrowed. down um the genes that they were. testing. So, she was diagnosed with a. chromosome disorder where she's uh got a. deletion of chromosome 8 and the genes. that were they gave me this whole print. out of all these genes that she doesn't. have in chromosome 8. Um, and when the.

specialist told me and gave this to me, I said, "Well, um, can I talk to maybe. some other parents?" Because she said. they didn't have a lot of information, much information at all. She's like, "Well, she's the only one." And I. thought, "Wow, at Children's Hospital, she's the only one." So, no, she's the. only one in the US database of this. particular um there were other children. that had a chromosome disorder in eight, but not the specific genes that she had. the deletion. >> So, I was like, "Oh, well, [ __ ] now.

What do I do?" Like, you know, like. >> she's one of one. >> Yeah. And so, it's been challenging, but. such um. >> what comes with that? Um if just part. I don't know. >> Oh, yeah. No, she didn't crawl until she. was a year and a half. >> Okay. >> Um, my other daughters were around six, seven months old when they started. crawling. And then she didn't start. walking until 2 and a half years old. She was almost five when she was. completely out of diapers. And it was. terrible. Like in the beginning before I.

was public about what was going on with. her, people would make comments, oh, she's still carrying her daughter in the. parking lot at the grocery store. And. I'm like, if I put her down, she will. bolt. It was just she just didn't know. that there's a car right there. And and. so there's a lot of development delays. with her muscle tone with that stuff. And then also, she's primarily. non-verbal. She can only say. >> like a handful of words. She can't do a.

sentence. And when she says words, except for no, she says that clear. [laughter]. She can say ma, not mom. Um, and the the. other word she says is like a whisper. >> And so she has had speech therapy. It. doesn't, you know, as a matter of fact, it kind of shut her down. Um, I have a. private teacher with her that works with. her and uh, it's um, it's kind of like. she's a at times it feels that she's 15.

now. >> Mhm. >> And she's still I still have to help her. with getting dressed. um like putting. her shoes on two different feet, putting. her clothes on backwards. So, I still. have to help her and she'll need care. the rest of her life. Like I she's never. she wants to, you know, she points at. blue cars. Blue is her favorite color. And it's sad because she's never going. to be able to drive, you know, because. one minute she seems like she's her age. and then and then she's like a toddler,

you know, but she's so aware and she's. very um caring and compassionate. She. loves animals. For instance, we were. Sammy went out of town and I to feed her. cats and I told Eloise, now you got to. remind mommy to feed her cuz I wanted. she likes having a job and so she has a. cell phone and I FaceTime her. I can't. call her without I have to see her face. So, she gives me a thumbs up, thumbs. down. I understand her. Yeah, >> we tried sign language. She has her own. We tried the [laughter] ASL. It did not.

work. >> Um for us and um but you know, she had. in her phone an emoji cat next to. Sammy's name. She pointed and I'm like, "Oh, good. We have to go feed her cat.". So, she understands so much. And I also. feel she sees um spirits. >> because I'll see her mouthing to someone. or dancing. Patrick Mold, my friend that. passed, she had such a deep connection. with him and she even felt oh god I'm. going to start crying that you know he.

came to her and she could see him and. stuff. So, you know, she has this gift I. feel that's on another level, but she, you know, she's never going to be a. normal kid. And I worry like as she gets. older, >> you know, and when I'm gone. >> Yeah. >> You know, so I wish that, but we don't. know what she'll, you know, this is kind of where she's at. and it doesn't improve, right? You know.

>> what do you think the biggest lesson is. that she's taught you in this life? >> Um. the simple things. >> like the simplest things make her so. happy. You know when the girls fight. about stuff she goes like this like. they're crazy [laughter]. >> and she. >> I love how aware she is. >> Oh very almost she's so aware like on. another level. Not to sound woo but you. know what I mean like I feel that she. >> I 100% believe that. >> Yeah. And I I've asked her and she she.

will if she doesn't know something or do. something, she's she's fine saying no. And I asked her, I'm like, "Do you see. spirits or can feel spirits?" And she. has nodded that she does. But um you. know with the girls and I tell them like. look at Eloise is so happy just to like. her Barbies the one dog always chews. them [laughter] up and the arm will be. off and she loves her. My older girls. would be like I want a new Barbie. You. know that kind of thing. and she. embraces the disabilities of these. [laughter] dolls from the dog like me.

>> Yeah. And she's just simple and just um. takes in all her surroundings and that's. like stop and smell the roses is what. she's taught me. And I think the older. girls too. >> Again, it's a testament of who you are. You know, you're taking in these babies. You um adopted a special needs daughter. Like you just have so much love that you. pour into people. And um I I just hope. that one day you find your person that. will be pouring love into you. Or you. know what? At this point I'm not even. gonna say that to people anymore because. I'm going through it too. I feel like we.

we're here to pour love into ourselves. >> I agree that I will do. Um I won't get. married again. >> No. Never. >> Never. Ever. Ever. Which we're about to. start talking about that in a second. But let's talk about your stent on. Housewives. [laughter]. How was that? because I I remember. following it a little bit, but then it. got a little crazy and I just almost. felt so bad for you. I was like, I can't. watch this. >> Yeah. No, it was um. >> was you and Brandy, right, Brandy? >> Yeah. I think it So, in the beginning.

when I did it, I was again naive to it. because I just wanted to be myself on. the show. Uh because a lot of people. know me as an actress. They've seen me. do interviews and I feel I'm like I'm. not going to create a character. I want. to be me. Um, I feel that people would. see through that and. >> they do and the cameras cameras pick up. the fakeness. Do you feel like the. housewives are real like the ones that. are on there or do you feel like some of. them. >> I feel that for the most part I feel. though some are um different on camera.

and off camera and so that's confusing. Actually, when I met with the producers, I wore Guns and uh Roses t-shirt and. jeans. I did my own hair makeup and I. told them I said they said I was the. first probably the only still gone in. looking like that, you know. I said you. guys can see on the red carpet you can. pull up a picture of me all glammed. This is how I really dress and real life. unless I you know have somewhere that I. have to get dressed up for. And I asked. them I said.

>> if you want me to do that I I can do. that because I still am acting. I'm. still going to events. And so that part. I felt was still authentic and truthful, that part of me. But um at home, if you. want this and they wanted me, they're. like, "No, stay who you are.". >> Yeah. >> So I think at first the housewives were. shocked by that that I. >> Which is crazy, but that's what shocked. them. Well, I'm also the stupid idiot. because when we went to the Bahamas, which was a weekend of me filming, literally I packed like I think the.

night before, morning of, and I was just. meanwhile, I didn't know they were all. like planning our outfits for probably. two [ __ ] months. And I was like, "Okay, we're going to the Bahamas." And. I I didn't organize all my damn outfits. I just wore what I would go if I was. with a bunch of real I thought I was. such a dumb [ __ ] [laughter] I swear to. God. Oh man, I was just Anyway, I was. myself. And then so then the second.

season, I was so um hurt by Lisa Rena. because I knew her for 20 years and I. was shocked and I didn't even know where. it was coming from. And um I didn't even. watch a few of the episodes because it. was so out of nowhere. And um I had done. a movie with Patrick Moldun. again. He's. like a friend of forever. Like we were. more than even brother and sister. It's. like we had such his family's my family. and he's just I've known him. We've.

known each other before anyone else knew. who we were and I was 18 years old when. I met him. And so. >> we were doing a movie together and she. heard that he was in it and she had a. huge crush on him and she's like, "If I. um if if I can interview you for my. podcast, can I interview him? I've had. such a crush on him." and I said, "Yeah, I'm sure he'll do it." And and I didn't. know her well at all. I had met her um. through an agent briefly and then I.

filmed one thing with her and then that. was it. And so we did the podcast and. that I did my interview with her and. then she did with Pat, but I'm like you. gotta like tone it down like and so. Brandy was doing a podcast at the time. [clears throat] and so then I did an. interview and then um then she. interviewed Pat and I wasn't there for. the interview and then it was like a. year and a half later. >> uh this is brought up on the show and. >> but I remember Teddy saying something to. me. Um oh she said you guys had sex. I.

thought she was talking about me and Pat. because she would say to me like, "I. know you're sleeping with him." I'm. like, "I'm not sleeping with him. [laughter] We've been broken up for. years." I said, "He's my best friend and. Aaron's got to be like pissed off and. whatever." And I said, "He's not like he. knows my relationship." It actually was. a dealbreaker if you don't embrace him. and forget it. >> Yeah. >> So, um that So, I thought she was. talking about him at first when they And. then when I was like, "Oh my god, for. [ __ ] sake." Really? I feel like.

Brandy, and I'm going to be very choosy. with my words here, I feel like Brandy. um leans into the villain character a. lot and sometimes it might become her. reality and that's why she drives it. home so hard. I I felt actually bad for. her because no one was talking to her. and I'm like the one person that was. nice to you [ __ ] do that to you know. what I mean? Um, and so yeah, know it. was really weird and out of nowhere. And.

when I say the bravo, bravo [ __ ]. bravo, it had nothing to do with that. It was something else where they were. also for every time I'd go to dinner, they would bring up some [ __ ] about. threesomes or this or that. And I'm. like, they thought I was mad at them and. I'm like, I'm not mad. Like, can we move. on from it was like I don't know why. they were wanting to make such an issue. All I I just said made one comment at a. dinner we had saying I just didn't want. them to talk about that with the kids. right there. Yes. Do I do stuff and then.

later it's on film? I'm like yeah I hope. my kids don't see it but if they do they. do but while they're sitting right there. I don't want to talk about stuff you. know. >> But um yeah know it was a really weird. >> jealousy too, you know, cuz you were the. new girl and it's like I almost feel. like it's almost like a hazing that they. put people through. I I just thought I. >> I thought, you know, this probably isn't. going to land well, right? >> You [laughter] know, like, >> you know what I mean? >> And then I'm like, >> also, I'm I'm open about a lot of [ __ ].

Like, it would have been easier to say, "Yeah, and you know, I'm like, should I. have lied and said certain things or. whatever?" But. >> it was just such a weird thing. I was. but I was more so more than anything I. was so hurt by Lisa Rena. That was. >> what happened with Lisa? >> Well, she's the one that was I believe. she just was pushing that and this and. she knows me and um. >> So you guys were like homies like like. off camera. >> Okay. >> Hey, I knew her for 20 years.

>> Wow. >> So, do you guys not anymore? No. No. No. >> So, that ruined you guys' friendship. Oh, I hate that. Yeah, it was uh it was, you know, we've talked a couple times. since, but I mean, >> if she reached out and apologized and. like genuinely meant it, would you guys. rekindle? Because a 20-year friendship. is a lot. >> Yeah. Well, I think you find out about. people. I always say you find out about. people when you work with them, live. with them, or travel with them. I had. never worked with her until this show. So, I found out I don't really want to.

be friends with that person so much. But. that's okay. She doesn't want to be. friends with me either, so that's fine. Um, but it is what it is and I don't um, in hindsight I probably should have. stayed on this show. Also though I think. things are going really bad with my. marriage too, >> right? >> Yeah. And so. >> I was also concerned about certain. things. Um, and COVID happens. It was. like a combination of stuff. Um, in hindsight, I probably should have.

stayed on and but I was like, everyone. hated me and it didn't seem I didn't. want it to not feel genuine either. Like. we're supposed to be friends on this. show and I was friends with someone now. I'm not. And then Garcel, thank God I. was friends with her. But it was a it. was also a weird time too of what's. going on with um COVID. Yeah. And not. knowing if we're filming and then. everyone hated me and then things. weren't so great with the person I was. with. So was a combination of things. >> Okay. So moving on from the housewife.

stuff. I did hear you say in um in the. middle of that that you were going. through some stuff behind the scenes. with the person that you were married. to. [laughter]. >> Yeah. We won't name. >> We're not we're gonna say no names. today. >> I was just to pick people. Um, no. With. Aaron, who the person I'm divorcing, yes, there was some stuff um that I was. dealing with, but I didn't know I was. really dealing with it back then, if. that makes sense. I just knew stuff. wasn't right. And. >> when you say that, can we have some. examples of like what was going on?

>> Well, I I feel. I. mean, obviously, I was in an abusive. marriage. Um, it didn't start out that. way, though, >> physically. physically. >> um and and emotionally, financially, all. of it. Um he was a completely different. person than the person I married. >> and um. >> do you feel like you were conned? >> Absolutely. Definitely. Yeah. That's the.

hardest part of it. >> is that, >> you know, we were together just over. eight years, married, a little over six, and. >> it's um. I never thought I would have been in. this situation ever. >> I And now I get it like when you know. it's easy to say, why wouldn't someone. leave or um you should have known, you. should have seen these things. And a lot. of people ask me that and it's I didn't. I wouldn't have married the person, you.

know. Um so I I've learned so much of. who he is during the separation. Um we. split a year ago, Fourth of July. weekend. We're still not divorced. >> What was the [sighs and gasps] Okay, so. let's bring it back to the beginning. Um, so where did you guys meet and how. did how did he come into your life so. that people who don't know the whole. story can kind of get a picture and then. we can paint the entire uh situation.

that's happening for everybody. Aaron. had a business of what I would call kind. of like a wellness um healing place. It. was a lot of stuff that people are just. now I think um seeing on you know. Instagram and stuff like that like the. biohacking and frequency toxic men. >> that the ones that push the healing and. wellness. >> [ __ ] Well Jesus [laughter and gasps]. >> it seems to be a trend. Uh he so I I a.

friend a mutual friend wanted to set me. up with him and I had met him in passing. and I'm like he's not my type and no not. really interested and then I started. after my mom passed away she um had. renal cell carcinoma which is kidney. cancer and seeing what she went through. I really wanted to learn more about like. preventative and health and wellness and. all of that and So, uh, I wanted to, so.

I went to Aaron. He had a like a place. where, um, I became a client and I was. the perfect, uh, like. woman. prey for him because, you know, I had. had my divorce with Charlie. I'm a. single mom. I had my youngest daughter. I just found out her diagnosis and I. felt like, oh, I'd been single for quite. a few years and I was ready to like, you.

know, meet someone. He was the last. person I ever thought. And it's so true. like when they say, oh, when you least. expect it. I've never had a situation. like this either where I was became. friendly and then turned into um a. relationship. It was always that instant. chemistry and all of that. And so you I. got to know him over four months while I. was a client. and we we knew some mutual. people and then, you know, started to. date and he just seemed like a really.

good man that he was very low-key. Didn't come from money. Always. This was. also probably a big [ __ ] red flag to. saying, "I don't care about your career. that way or you know how much money. I'm. very low maintenance." And and his. actions even showed that too. And you. know, he seemed like a manly man, like. he could help me with stuff, but in a in. a nice in a relationship way, not where,

you know, it's hard to explain. It just. seemed like a good a good man to like a. guy's guy, a good man, and just very. seemed very nurturing. And um you know. we had we were together I would I think. around. almost 2 years before we got married and. and no signs of anything that would be a. red flag for me. Right. >> And then it was after we got married,

still good. And looking back, like. really trying to see where I was trying. to really see where when did this really. start? And. um he's Canadian and he uh has a green. card because being married to me. And I. I when I think about it, it's like. that's really after he got the green. card was kind of when things started to. shift. >> Wow. And then um. >> how so?

>> Um verbally. >> abusive. And it was a slow burn. This. wasn't overnight. It was like slowly. chipping away, putting doubts in my head. about certain things. Um and then I'll. never forget the one time when he first. hit me, I was so shocked. I was like, >> "Oh, [ __ ] There's no going back from. this." My dad always taught my sister. and I, he always said, "If a man hits. you once, he'll hit you again." And I. told him, I said,

>> "I I don't know. I don't know how to. what to do.". >> He hit you in your face. >> Hit my face. >> Oh my gosh. >> Yeah. Slap me across the face. >> Wow. >> Yeah. And it was. shocking and startling. And I out of. like he got so angry and just hit me. And so. he was crying and please forgive me. I I. don't know what happened. It'll never. happen again. And it's the typical thing. that you hear from women who come out of.

relationships like this. And I never. thought in a million years it would be. me. >> And that's the thing that I think is. hard. Don't be hard on yourself though. because it's um. >> those types of relationships are. normally like very passionate and that's. what we get addicted to is the cuz I I. was in a severely abusive relationship. also and what women get addicted to in. those is the push and pull of the abuse. >> You see who they were that you fell in. love with and that they're so. remorseful. He was so remorseful and to.

the where I felt bad for him, >> right? You're like it's not that bad. I. played it down after I got through the. initial I don't know what to do. My dad. has always I've always heard my dad's. always said this and I can't I cannot be. an abusive relationship. I didn't know. even the mental part of it at that. point. But looking back, it was. happening. I just wasn't aware of it at. that time. He knew little things to say. to me to put doubts in my head to make. me feel insecure. I'd be going. everything. Yeah. like um choices I was.

making, things that I was doing. I was. also in between like business managers. A lot of I don't know if you've had this. experience and if you haven't, thank God. you haven't, but some of us in. entertainment have had situations with. business managers who have done certain. things and that you not, you know, not. the greatest. And so I was in between. some things and I was also working a lot. and he was like, I'll help you. I'll. take care of I'll help you with your. finances. That was the biggest mistake I.

made. >> And so I I stupidly put him on as a snee. on my one account and. >> that was really bad. But but going back. you know I thought okay he's really he. had my best interest. He made me believe. he was taking care of me and you know. wanted to build a life with me. >> That's what abusers do. >> Yeah. I really felt like we were. building a life together. >> and was so close to Eloise. Um Sammy I. think she well she knew from she did not.

like him from day one. Lola she was. sweet and she liked him. She liked him. for me. She believed him too. I believe. >> Yeah. >> Um until the end. >> I love that Sammy saw through him. though. >> She saw through him. >> Yeah. >> But I'm like you don't like anyone right. now. Sammy. >> that's the one that's the one you keep. close to you though. The one that. doesn't like anybody keep close to you. >> It's true. And she's the one I had to. lie the most to with him with the. everything. And it was just, you know, it's hard. It It was slow, but it was a. chip away at me to where I felt like a.

piece of [ __ ] And then. >> um. >> he's breaking you down because men. abusers love to break down strong women. >> Yeah. No. And I was broken. And he then. he would slowly the the physical started. more and more. >> Then he moved his family down from. Canada and told me they were just. staying for a while. And that I said I. it was his mom, dad, brother. Then it. turned into another brother and a. sister-in-law that neither one of us had. married. Five people. This was during.

COVID. You're It was 2021. Like towards. the end of it, they made up some. [ __ ] excuse. Came down. Two Great. Danes, two pitbulls, two cats, and five. people. >> What? Yeah. >> In your house? >> In my house. A house that, by the way, I. was leasing with Aaron. I had sold my. house in Hinn Hills. And then thank God. I did not buy a house with him, >> right? >> So we were leasing this, we leased it. >> and uh so I didn't own it. We didn't own. it. Um so I'm very respectful of you. know um that was 5 years ago. The.

brother with the wife left after 4. months and then the others are still. here five years later. >> Wow. >> It was after they moved down I feel is. when he really shifted. I I was seeing a. man that I didn't even know and I kept. And then it would be like parts of that. with the abuse and then he would back. off and apologize. I'm so sorry. I just. I'm feel pressure, my family, the this. and um he told me all these business.

deals that he was um putting together. And then the borrowing the money started. with me and pulling money out when as. soon as I would fly somewhere to work, he would take money out of my accounts. that I didn't know. And it was it was. and I take responsibility that I wasn't. watching that stuff, but at the same. time I loved him and I trusted him and I. felt like he had my best interest and. that we were building a life together. I. co-signed stupidly right before we got. married his lease on his place in Malibu.

where he moved to center and because he. wasn't uh he didn't have his green card. at that point. Um and that wasn't smart. Um, he ended up I ended up having to. pick up all the rent on that. It was. just terrible. It went from bad to. worse, but then the physical started so. much. Um, and it was when that was it. was stuff that I could hide, you know, like on my arms or something. And then. he gave me a black eye and that was. where I was like, "Oh, oh [ __ ] How am I.

going to what am I going to do now? What. am I going to tell people?" It was. awful. It was awful. >> And it was something his cousin was. there. she worked for him. She was right. there and saw it happen. He started to. um he had these plants uh by a woman. that gave uh she gave to him and I later. learned some things about that woman. So. >> he was having an affair. >> Yeah. >> Oh my god. And uh I didn't know at the. time, but he made up some [ __ ] thing. with saying there was like listening.

devices in these things and he got crazy. like he would show put a device up to it. and it would I'm like all right let's. just put them outside then on the. balcony drugs or was it a peptide he was. taking or. >> No, I think um I I mean I learned that. part after um. >> he just was. I think I was seeing the real person. Wow. >> You know, and. >> um he he started to fight or argue and.

stuff and then the a cop showed up at. his place and he took went into the. kitchen of his place and then uh his. cousin and I had to answer the door and. the cop said someone heard some arguing. or screaming or something and played it. down. He left and then I sat down and. Aaron came out and just looked at me. goes, "You [ __ ] bitch." and he used. this part of his hand and gave me a. black eye. >> And at at that moment I was like, "Oh my. god, I think I thought is my eye okay.".

I was so scared. >> Yeah. >> So scared. >> So, you know, it's when people asked me. too like the other times it happened and. then it was just all the time, you know, doing stuff, but they asked me, "How. come you never called the police?" I'm. like, "I didn't call the police and they. showed up and that's what happened to. me." So he had always told me, you know, I would. >> Well, they control the It's not easy. when you're in an abusive relationship. I People are always like, "Why didn't.

you leave?" They It takes a woman, they. say, seven times of leaving before they. can actually really leave their abuser. Um, it's it's not easy for a woman, especially if they have money, especially it doesn't matter. It doesn't. matter what walk of life you're in. If. you're in an abusive relationship, you. will never know what it's like unless. you're in that. And to ask somebody, well, why didn't you leave? I feel like. that is just kind of like. >> I I know. >> Yeah. It's. >> I don't I I know. I feel And this is the. opposite. Like I'm the one that made the.

money, right? And I was scared to leave. because also he had his family here. >> and um you know and I'm afraid of them. too. I actually moved out of the house that. that we were leasing and everything and. but it was for towards the very end it. became where it was my normal like as. far as if a couple gets into a. disagreement like okay are do you guys. yell or does one walk away or whatever? Our normal became where I would be hit.

or pushed down on the ground or some. threat of something and that became. almost my normal. And I and it I. >> I knew it was wrong, but I was so beaten. down and that I. >> I didn't know how to leave. >> I really did not know how to leave. >> You're almost not in your right mind in. those situations. It's a chemical. >> survival, you know, because he's such a. big guy. I've never laid a hand on him. I My god, I would not be here right now.

>> Yeah, you're tiny. I couldn't even. imagine you laying a hand on anyone. >> Yeah, he's a big guy and very. um intimidating and. >> you know, he had he has guns and stuff. and would threaten me with that too. And. so I was [ __ ] scared um to to leave. >> And um. >> So he ended up filing though. >> He filed. Um, >> did he file because you moved out of the. house or. >> No, he moved in. I rented like ended up. being three town houses altogether. I I.

first moved out with my daughters and he. because I it got so bad. His family knew. what he was doing to me too and. >> and nobody stopped it. >> They didn't stop it. >> That's learned behavior too. Probably. completely it is. And so I moved in with. the girl. I moved the girls and I hid so. much like all this usually would happen. at his office um or uh when we would. travel and that would be it got back. where I'm like I can't have you with me. you know.

>> um and for someone who accused me of. cheating it was him and. >> which is whatever but. >> um. >> you know so then I so I stayed in a. townhouse with the girls and then I. rented another one that I could use as. like my office when I was like trying. like what are we going to do about this. house? I packed up all my stuff and. needed to but I didn't want to just they. were destroying it and they're whatever. and so I kept hearing they're leaving. next month, next month, next month. Well, they still haven't left. They're. still here [laughter] and I was having. to pay the rent there plus his office.

plus the town houses plus everyone's. pay. It was just out of control. And so, >> um, you know, so I hid that. So, and so, um, I had my breasts. I had to have them. redone and I had surgery. And then, like. 3 weeks later, I had my faceelift. After. I had the surgery on my breasts, he uh. that night he was taking care of me at. the Four Seasons. And I was I had a. seven and a half hour surgery cuz it was.

a rupture. It was a whole thing. and he. ended up hitting me while I'm on the. toilet. And it got to the point though. where he would and I'm like crying and. I'm like I just got out of surgery. I. was like this. It was awful. And. >> he's a disgusting human. >> When that's when that moment like I knew. for I was trying to convince myself once. his family leaves he'll be back to cuz I. felt like they were but they had never. he had no intentions of them ever. leaving. I thought he did. And but when.

he did that to me, being that. vulnerable, >> I knew this is. >> he's gonna kill me, >> you know? And so. >> he hates you [clears throat] and he. hates himself. And when men are like. that, there's no. I call it shark eyes when they get like. that. It's almost like their eyes go. black and they become like a different. human. And that's the scariest thing. that you can ever experience as a woman. is watching a man have zero emotion or. soul behind his eyes and them putting.

their hands on you. >> And to do that to you after surgery. after surgery. >> Like it's terrible that he was doing it. to you anyways, but especially after. surgery, too. Like. >> so vulnerable. >> Yeah. Like that's insane. >> It was insane. And that's again people. are like, "Why didn't you call and do. what?" I'm sitting there like I. [laughter] can't even pick a phone up. I. couldn't even go to the bathroom by. myself. And then I had my facelift three. weeks later and I told him I'm it was so. bad. I'm like we've got to I can't do. this anymore. Um he had found text.

messages and like a few months prior of. me and a guy that I did a show with and. I had never se seen this guy again and. they were inappropriate texts that I. sent and I own that. I never saw him. though in person and I he even saw the. text of me saying I can't cross this. line and see you. I obviously things are. not good in my marriage and Aaron saw. those or the person I'm divorcing and. asked me and he said did I lose you? Do. you want um I I and I I said I cannot.

stay married like this. This is I can't. do it. I didn't want to get divorced and. go through what I'm going through right. now. Well, I mean, you also went through. one of the most public freaking. divorces, so you probably were scared to. death what was going to happen when the. news hit. >> Although, I did not think this would go. down the way it did. But I I said, "This. is what needs to happen for us to stay. married. You need to go to anger. management. You need to stop all your. substance abuse and you need to get your. family out of here because I cannot.

support everyone. This is insane.". >> So, when did you find out about the. substance abuse? Um well I found out. found out [ __ ] after we split. >> Oh my gosh. >> Yeah. You would have thought I would. have known more but um there was some. other things that I had knownish. Uh but. I'm like whatever you're doing you need. to stop you know. >> Um. >> but then he got worse after that and. that's when and then I had my surgeries. and then I told him I said I I think I.

need to reschedule my face lip. Like I. was like, I I've never this is a major. thing. I cannot have anything. And he. said, "No matter what happens with us, I. promise you I'm going to take care of. you and work get you through this." And. it was horrendous. Thank God Dr. Ben had. me go to a place cuz at least I had. nurses. Yeah. And I stayed there for a week and. he was trying to put on, you know, his. whatever. And I get home and then it was. 10 days later, Fourth of July weekend.

He was just so volatile and he even had. his dad come over who had never been. there showed pictures of me with this. guy and I text messages I you keep. bringing up the same ones like and. you're showing your dad and they were. threatening me and it was just. >> trying to create a narrative. He's. trying to create [snorts]. >> for months he was I didn't even know it. but yeah. >> but meanwhile he's having an affair. >> Yeah. with the plant. >> several people. Oh, >> and then um that was she was earlier. There were several and then he was. >> it's always it's always it's okay when.

they do it but when we if you do it it's. a whole thing. >> and I and I did. >> but you didn't even do anything. >> Yeah. I mean the I should not have text. another man and I. >> I knew that our marriage was over. Just. the fact I even did that because I've. never cheated. I've never I'm very loyal. and you know I I couldn't and um but I. knew it was over when I did that but I. was trying to convince myself things. will change. Well, he was trying to. convince me and they just didn't. It. went from bad to worse. But um and that. weekend while I'm 10 days after my.

facelift, fourth Fourth of July weekend, I told his mom my text I'm like, "You've. got to get your husband and your son out. of here. I cannot do this. If not, I'm. going to file a restraining order. this. is so abusive. I am trying to heal from. two surgeries. So eventually they left. and then bad weekend and then Aaron um. the person I'm divorcing uh filed that. online that weekend and doesn't tell me. and has texted me like on a Monday like.

nothing and I. >> couldn't even I didn't even want to see. him or anything. And my daughter Sammy. called me and she's like are you okay? Cuz I stayed the night at her house on a. Saturday night cuz I just was so scared. to stay there. um I was afraid he was. going to do something and so I stayed at. her place and even at that I still. didn't tell her everything. Um but she's. like well that [ __ ] filed for. divorce. I was like what? Why? Like he the worst thing he could. have done while I'm healing from a. facelift.

>> because that they just always wanted so. vulnerable. >> Yeah. And uh I talked to him. Uh I uh he. called actually and I said, "You filed. for divorce?" Well, yeah. You told my. mom you were going to file. I said, "I. didn't mean Monday.". >> Yeah. >> I said I didn't say I was going to file. I said, "We have to get divorced. This. is just crazy with your family and the. abuse and everything else. I can't do. this.". >> And I was trying to beat you to the. punch. >> Yeah. And I said, "You don't realize the. circus you just created." And now with a.

facelift, with my head [ __ ] wrapped, I have to go find an attorney and deal. with this. And he said, "Uh, he was. just, you don't need an at I'm like, you. want over 100 grand a [ __ ] a month. What. do you mean I don't need an attorney?". >> Is that what he filed in the divorce. papers? Wow. >> Mr. Oh, I don't want your money. I said, "You could go [ __ ] yourself." And that. was the last time I spoke to him. And. then he same thing. Please take me back. Texting everything. I never talked to. him again to this day. >> But. >> you don't need to talk to him. He. doesn't deserve any evil.

>> No, it's actually I'm terrified of him. And then I and I was so scared to file. the restraining order. >> [ __ ] balls. I was terrified because. I I just He's dangerous and. >> he doesn't have anything to lose, you. know. And same with his family. I was so. scared. >> Um. >> does he still reach out to you and try. to get. >> No, he can't. No, he can't. >> Um. >> but it's been hell, I'll tell you that. And but the worst part is.

the betrayal of. for him like right away, you know, sell. pictures of me to Daily Mail and put all. these stories out there, all these lies. about me and trying to destroy me. You. know, even when I filed the restraining. order, I just wanted to protect my. safety. I didn't put [ __ ] in there about. them that just to be mean. Um, and. that's the thing that was while I was at. my most vulnerable to try to ruin me. just to after everything I've worked for.

my whole life to, >> you know, just be so brutal and. everything that I've discovered just in. the last year. Like people come out of. the woodwork. >> Oh, >> his friends, these people telling me I. was like, how could I have been so. naive? And. >> you know, finding out that I was paying. the salary of. >> at least one that I know in particular. and the other one I uh was earlier, but. an employee that he was having an affair.

with and her severance and all this. stuff. It's just. >> and right away moved in with a woman um. as soon as we separated, had her testify. against me. She didn't know me, didn't. see anything about me. And it was just. it was brutal. It's been brutal. I. can't. He won't sign divorce papers. He's trying to come after me for spousal. and and I get it. I know that in normal. marriages, whoever makes more money, you. know, that's you pay. That is what it. is. >> And you guys didn't sign a prenup.

>> No, that was that was um mistake number. 50 I made this [laughter] marriage. >> Girl, you're just a lover girl. You're. just a girl. It's okay. >> I'm so stupid, you know. Well, it ain't. happening again. Yeah. No, I was a dumb. [ __ ] I didn't do a prenup. But I do. want to say that I am so proud of you. for speaking up because if anybody looks. at your track record, you have not spoke. up ever. So for you to finally speak up. and say your truth is amazing and I'm so. proud of you. >> Thank you.

>> Because like I said, your track record. shows that you literally have eaten [ __ ]. and protected everybody. And now you're. finally saying, "No, I'm choosing me. I'm going to tell the truth about this. man so he can't hurt another woman the. way that he hurt me." and also your for. yourself just to even be able to get. that off your chest and be able to say. look this is my truth take it or leave. it is it just speaks volume so I am. proud of you. >> thank you I also want to you know. because this has been going on for a. year and I feel it's been hell like. every turn I discover something new or.

something else is filed and you know we. have no custody to deal with we don't. have a home to sell he's taken. everything of mine. >> he's not going to let you go. >> and he's not going to he won't let it go. So, and that's the part that's brutal. But I also, you know, I want to. if I could even help one woman in my. situation if it could happen to me who. I'm the one that was the bread winner. I'm, you know, and. >> it's a slow burn. It was a slow burn and.

it's terrifying. Um, you know, this. happens so much and many women don't. make it out alive and and I think if I. wasn't in the public, I I wouldn't be. here right now or if I did call the. police on him, I would not be here. Um, I really believe that. And. but to be put through hell with this, you know, I had to go through a five-day. trial to get I have a permanent. restraining order. So, after you file. it, then you have a trial and see if you.

want to extend it. and I got the most. you can get. And it's not just because. it's not because who I am. I had to go. through this trial and he kept doing. interviews and putting lies out there. hoping I would break. And I almost did. to pull it because I didn't know I would. have to it would be public where the. media could be in there and I would have. to sit there and. >> it was the hardest thing I think I've. ever had to do. >> But I did it and it was over a few. months. It would be like three days then. I'd wait have to wait a month and go.

again again. It was so devastating to. also testify against this person. >> who I had thought I was building a life. with who I loved and in a second he. showed no remorse, no love at all. Like. to turn on me the way he did publicly. and do all that [ __ ] about me. It was. such a that was more devastating the. betrayal that he had towards me than any. than hitting me. It was the that was the. worst.

And you know, early on I also tried to. have, you know, private judge. A lot of. celebrities have private judges just to. keep things private. It's not. necessarily you're hiding anything, but. who the hell wants. >> saving yourself? >> Yeah. And also, I'm a single mom and I. don't want I've youngest daughter and. it's like I'm I need to protect myself, too. And. >> um and so he would not have a private. judge. In the beginning, he said that I. would have to sign a one-sided NDA and. have to pay him $250,000 per breach. And.

so I was like, "All right." And I was. actually, at the time, he didn't know. his cousin was testifying against him. And I was trying to also protect that. side of things. I didn't want to destroy. the person, but I wanted to protect. myself. And so he he wanted it public. He wanted well it was an opportunity for. him too to talk to the media the way he. did after each time he would go in there. and um but it was hard it's hard it's. still hard he won't stop and then we had. to go to court for spousal and I was. quite shocked that the um this is a.

different judge that she awarded him. temporary spousal and legal bills. I was. he has felony charges against him for. domestic violence regarding me and um a. permanent restraining order. And I was. so surprised by and shocked actually. that I would have to pay him after all. of this and that um. you know cuz I think it sets a bad. precedent for other victims afraid to.

leave because what if they can't afford. it and then this case could be an. example for other cases coming well she. had to pay you know and I I was really. you know I respect the court but I was. very disappointed ointed in the decision. that I went 5 days with this trial all. this stuff and then in you know a very. short time I don't even think it was an. hour to make that decision and now what. I've been going through with it and I. understand like if it was other. circumstances I would have say okay.

that's the law I have to do this and pay. spousal I get it but under these. circumstances I don't understand and. what I'm being put through to have to. defend myself is been brutal cuz we're. not done. She won't stop. [laughter]. >> God, Denise, my heart breaks for you. It's like, how do how are you supposed. to love after this or try to even look. for love after this? You know, it's like. >> I don't know. This one's a doozy. I'll. tell you cuz I like I said, I've always. said never say never. I will never get. married again. Never. I can't do the.

divorce. The divorce sucks. [laughter]. >> Yeah. I can't do it. I will never. >> It'll kill me. I think I just can't. I. can't. Um I would have a partner. >> Yeah. >> And you know, it's like. >> I think like Kurt Russell and Goldie Han. figured it out. >> Said that today. Yeah, I think I would. do that. Um, but you know, I haven't. been with anyone. I haven't dated and. it's been a year, which is a long time. Like, I envy you. I wish I could be more. like you. I mean, I haven't been with. anyone. I This has hurt me so much that. and because I really loved him. I. thought I was building a life with him. And it's just, you know, I have to heal.

just. >> I feel like I can compartmentalize and I. >> am not one that's woe is me wallow. But. with this, I've discovered things. um. in the year that's almost been worse. than during the marriage. >> Well, the betrayal is the betrayal is. very when I when I had gone through a. situation with an affair, I think. >> uh it's not the act that hurts you, it's. the lies. >> It's the lies. >> and you are just it's like whiplash and.

the people who are involved in it and. the people, you know, like you feel so. it's slimy. >> It's very slimy. >> and there's no way to feel good about. that. betrayal trauma is literally like. it rewires your brain to not trust. people to just feel disgusting because. you're the last to know and it's like. nobody wants to ever be the [ __ ] last. to know and when you are it's just it's. a different kind of hurt. >> and also I think. >> this was he didn't love me there's no. way and so it feels like this was all.

when you asked if I feel conned 100% and. how I could have not seen it is What's. hard? But my closest friends and people. in my life are like he had us fooled. too. But that's the part that's the hard. actually of anything everything is my. daughter Eloise because she loved him. and for him to completely disappear from. her life the way he has in the beginning.

I would have you know if set up. visitation with through my dad or. something but he just did not care about. her and that's what's the most hurtful. thing he says stuff public the only time. he mentions her is publicly to try to. get sympathy he never tried tried to. adopt her once I think he knew I would. marry him without a prenup. That was. like off the table and you know his. family started a GoFundMe page to try to. get money from the public and say our.

poor granddaughter. No one has even. tried to see her and and that is what's. more than anything is so hurtful that he. completely completely disappeared from. her life and. >> it's like a whole family of scam. artists. >> Yeah. No, they are. It's exactly. I. mean, it's so deep and there's so much. there and so much [ __ ] that it's. [laughter] like it's a lot, but it's uh. um. >> Well, you didn't deserve any of it. >> Well, thank you. >> You didn't because you you went into it. with a genuine heart and good intentions.

and like you just wanted to be loved and. you know, this guy took full advantage. of a woman who's been through some [ __ ]. and has a tattered heart and you know, maybe in the beginning he did love you. I don't know him. But then like you know. people change as years go on and it's. just it's disgusting. >> I think I was I he didn't love me. He. really you know set out to pray on he. knew what he was doing. >> That's so disgusting. >> Especially you know finding so much. stuff out and it is what it is. But it's. I just want it over, you know.

>> Yeah. How does it end? How can we get it. to. >> I don't [ __ ] know. I I know we have. some court dates coming up. I don't. know. It's like. >> he's just going to keep it's like you're. going to pay so much money in [ __ ]. lawyers fees more than what you're going. to he's going to end up getting in the. end, you know? It's like just [ __ ]. >> I don't understand because he was. ordered also to return a laptop of mine. that he took. And I don't it's not the. laptop so much. It's the information. that's on there. Ordered to return my. late mom's things. Refuses. Oh, I don't. know. And that's like, oh, come on. You.

won't even give me my mom's things. >> Yeah. Like that's disgusting. >> It's disgusting. And so gross. I just. have to hopefully, you know, whenever. it'll be over soon. But but I going. through it though, I'm like, okay, there's obviously a reason even though. it's so painful. Um. >> I always say there's a blessing and a. lesson, >> right? So I'm trying to find that. But I. So that's where I think, okay, if I can. I want to be able to do what I can to. help. >> other victims. And then also, you know, there's some holes in our system too.

that I think need to be fixed as well. Not that I have the power to do that, but at least, you know, start raising. awareness about it. >> Exactly. I was going to say people can. use your case as an example, you know, and that that's the first step. towards change and being able to change. things is people seeing it actually play. out in real life and then being able to. be like, "Oh, you know what? That's not. right. We need to look into this and fix. it." So, >> and there's so many things, I mean, you. know, with your divorce, too, that. people have an opinion or they think.

>> they know everything. >> Yeah. or or he's put stuff out there and. um. >> there's nobody know the only people who. know what's going on inside of a divorce. or a relationship no matter how public. they are is the two people that are in. it. >> All these other narratives that are. created are not real and people need to. stop believing headlines. It's just not. what it is, you know. And I think uh. people have been conditioned so much to. like read the newspaper and you know. what's going on, but nowadays these. headlines come from like Tik Tok or like. you know like it's not the journalism.

that it used to be. And I think people. need to know that there's two people. that are involved in this situation and. that there's always two sides to every. story. I was really genuinely. so touched that how much support I do. have because I was scared to file that. the restraining order and then go. through the trial and then have him put. stuff out there and it it is um. >> it's nice to I'm so grateful for fans. and people that have really been really.

truly genuinely supportive and I'm so. thankful. Well, your track record shows. the the woman that you are. And I think. people know that you're not just going. to file a restraining order on somebody. unless there's a reason. >> And you know, I I'm thankful that people. were able to see past all the [ __ ]. and the lies that he was putting out and. actually see you for the person you are. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, absolutely. Where are we going on. vacation, Denise? Exwives. >> That's the other thing. Yeah, [laughter]. we need to go somewhere. >> Where are we going? We both need a. break. Let's do it. >> Yeah, because you're single now, too.

>> I am, baby. Right. >> So, we need to do a single girls trip. Let's do it. I'm so down. We'll have so. much fun. And I All I want to do is. travel. That's all I want to do. >> I love traveling. >> now that And now that I'm here in LA, we. got to go out to dinner and hang out and. stuff like that, too. I know. Me, too. I. It's been a long time coming. I've been. trying to get to LA for a while, and so. now it's finally happening and we close. on our house next week. And. >> Congratulations. >> I'm just excited. So, we'll we'll be. here. But, um, >> do do you think that you have forgiven.

everyone besides the person that you. were married to? Do you think that. you've forgiven everyone in your life. that has caused you any sort of hurt and. pain? And where does Denise go from. here? >> Um, caused me. Yeah, I mean I Yeah, the. I I feel too like in relationships like. even with Charlie, I feel that was our. journey. I am so grateful for him. because I wouldn't have our daughters, you know. So, I don't think of.

um it is it is what it is. And I'm so. grateful that we're able to be in a. place that we're in. And of course, I. forgive the hurt there, you know? >> Well, even with the media and stuff like. that, you know, I mean, like they were. not kind to you. >> and that's got, you know, that's that. was a big part of your life. And I mean, look how traumatized you were to even. file for divorce this time even though. you were in the most abusive. relationship ever. >> And he actually filed. I wanted to work. things out on the side or. >> but then when I had to do the. restraining order, there was no.

>> doing that nicely. So, no, it was it's. really hard. I I am a very forgiving. person and um. >> I. >> that person I would I I'm friends with. all my exes, too. That will never ever. ever happen. But. >> I um I'm not, you know, I do want to. find love again. I want to meet someone. I want to have fun. So I don't feel. bitter at all. Yeah. But I'm just gonna. be a little cautious about [laughter]. who I meet. And you know, I think this.

was an extreme pase that I Yeah. Uh but. and obviously I had to go through it for. whatever reason, you know, as painful as. it is. But I think I just have to keep. >> the h the gl the glass is always half. full and stay that way and not become. bitter or you know um change who I am in. a negative way. And so I I feel like I'm. back to myself before I married him, but. only wiser. And you know, um, but I like. to have fun and I want to I would like.

to have like a girl's vacation. >> Let's do it. >> I love that you said that you're friends. with all of your exes because that's. such an Aquarius trait. I'm an Aquarius. myself. You're January 22nd. You're. February 17th. Yeah. So when you said. that, I was like, you know what? That. has to be an Aquarius thing because I'm. friends with all of my exes, too, except. for the one of them that was abusive. And it's like it's impossible to be. friends with him because he just can't. be normal. Yeah, exactly. >> That's so funny. I did not know you're. Aquarius. Okay, so you have your head in. the clouds, too. >> Oh, I'm Listen, I'm a lover girl at. heart, too, baby. So, I get it. I.

understand you so much. [clears throat]. >> You do, >> Denise. Thank you so much for coming. here today. And I hope this is not the. last of our conversations. I would love. >> We're going to go on vacation. >> Okay, I'm going to hold you to it. >> I will go. >> All right. We're We're putting that on. the calendar, guys. We're going on. vacation. >> We have to think somewhere fun where we. can go. Okay. Um, thank you Denise. This. interview I have been wanting to do with. you for so long and I just got to sit. across from you and feel your energy and. you're just the most beautiful human and. please do not I know you won't because. life has not torn you down but please.

don't let anything tear you down because. you're just such a beautiful soul. >> Thank you. >> I appreciate you. >> Next time I'm going to interview you. >> Yeah, let's do it. I'll be [laughter]. your first guest on podcast. Do it. I'll. do it. Thank you guys for tuning in to. another episode of Dumb Blonde. I'll see. you guys next week. Bye. >> [music].