Larry Birkhead | Part 1 | Dumb Blonde Podcast

Is this thing on? What's up, you sexy. girls? Welcome to another episode of. Dumb Blonde. Today, I am super excited. about the guest that we have. I think. this man has. gone through a complete media hurricane. and somehow managed to be come this.

amazing father and I just really am so. grateful and thankful to have you here, Mr. Larry Birkhead. >> Thank you. Thank you. Well, what a what. an intro. Thank you. >> I mean, it's real though because I feel. like everybody is like, "Oh, it's Anna. Nicole's ex." And it's like, I think. you're so much more than that. I think. you survived a shitstorm and literally. chose to raise a daughter over profit. and I think um. just your testimony and stood the test.

of time. Uh there's so much that we're going to. dive into that I learned about you and. then I rewatched the documentary last. night that we're going to kind of. dissect. uh. while we're on the podcast together, but. I mean, just starting off, you grew up. in Kentucky. I was really It was really. crazy and Is this right information cuz. sometimes I Google stuff and get like. wrong information. You have a twin. brother? >> I do have a twin brother, yeah. >> Do you guys look like identical? >> We don't actually. We don't look alike. We're like we're we're fraternal, but I. had we looked a lot alike, I would have.

probably used him as a decoy during a. lot of my craziness, but. >> Dude, that would have been so cool, right? I That was going to be my next. question. Like if you had a twin. brother, why did you not just like you. guys could have totally played the. media? >> Which is it's weird because I have a. twin brother, but my dad's name is Larry. Birkhead. So or was. He passed away, but. he he um. when all this stuff came out in the. media, he had a lot of fun with his. friends telling them that he dated Anna. Nicole and he would. >> Oh, I bet. you don't believe me, just. look at the paper. There's my name. So,

yeah. >> I love that. That's awesome. So, I your. family has had to stand beside you. through this whole craziness, which. we'll get into later, but I want to. learn a little bit more about you. So, tell me a little bit about you. You want. You grew up in Kentucky. I know that you. went to college and high school like and. you're still in Kentucky. >> Well, we what we did I grew up, you. know, um when when I was young our my. family moved just months old from. Pennsylvania to um Louisville, Kentucky. and then we I grew up there um and you.

know, it was a it's it was a great place. to grow up and while I was there, you. know, going through high school, I. started wanting to get into journalism. and things like that and um. so, I actually started uh you know, taking classes with photography when I. was in college. I took um a lot of. journalism classes and that was my major. and everything. And so, basically um. kind of just wanted to um. go down that path, but I didn't really. know kind of where I wanted to fit in. the in the whole journalism thing. So, I.

started getting interested in like um. celebrity photography and some stuff. like that. And so, I. actually started out um writing and um. and when you're in Kentucky, there's not. a ton of stuff when it comes to like. celebrity stuff. So, you have to either. travel to Nashville. >> Unless you're into the Judds. Shout out. to Wynonna. >> or you know, you go you know, you travel. to the big cities and you do work. So, I. kind of like. carved out a little, you know, spot for.

myself to where um. you know, my career took off when I was. like just in the right place at the. right time. I had a um I was doing a lot. of volunteer work for the Derby Festival. and they were recruiting people to come. in for the Derby and things and it was a. year that um. I was kind of like you know, like Mr. Haney on Green Acres, you're doing this. but you're also doing that. You know, so. >> Jack-of-all-trades, >> it was kind of like at the same time I. was trying to break into the photography. stuff. So, there was a situation where.

um there was the whole movie Titanic. craze, you know, it just happened and. um. there's always a steamboat race for the. Kentucky Derby and as a part of this. 2-week festival, they'll race anything, dogs, beds, you know, whatever. It's. like. >> Yeah. >> So, uh. >> I want to do the Kentucky Derby. I'm I. want to I he keeps inviting us and I. want us to go. I think it would be so. sick if we can make it work in our. calendars, we will. But, I I'm excited. I want to do it. >> be awesome. But, um. So, yeah, so that year um.

I want to say it was like 1998, I uh. the the one of the steamboats that were. racing against the other steamboat um. had just sank and some what somebody a. worker got mad, they got fired and they. pulled something and the whole boat went. under. So, they just brought the boat up. at the time of for this whole big. festival for that week and um on the. boat was Gloria Stuart, which is like. the the the old lady from the Titanic. that threw the necklace in the ocean. >> Yeah. >> You know, and uh she was there.

>> She's like a She's like a history. artifact. >> Yeah. >> I'm like seriously in human form. >> I remember because I had like my little. microphone, my little tape recorder and. I had my camera and stuff and I had. never had a picture published. I'd never. written a story. I was I was taking. classes, so it was kind of like hyper to. get out there before I really should. have. >> Yeah. >> And um. I managed to get her to come up to the. edge of the steamboat that just sank and. she put her arms out like, you know, the. king of the world and I snapped the. photo and I don't know. I mean, it's.

probably wasn't the greatest photo. I. remember like one of her fingers got cut. off, but it did at the at the time it. was like the beginning of like digital. >> But, why is she always around boat. sinking? >> I I I don't know. >> going on with this lady? >> to be honest, I'm glad she was that year. because it what it did for me was. um I got my first byline and it to other. people you know it was like okay. whatever but to me it was enough to. energize the spark in me to say hey this. is something cool that I want to do so I. kind of parlayed that into. um.

trying to get into this big Derby party. it's it's happens every year and I would. see it on television it's the Barnstable. Brown Gala and it's like a diabetes. fundraiser and it would to me growing up. it was almost like getting a ticket to. the Wonka Chocolate Factory. >> right like the golden. >> news they always yeah they show these. gates and you don't know what's going on. behind it but everybody's talking about. it but you can't get in. >> right. >> so I was like that was the only. celebrity stuff that was happening cuz. that when the Derby happens a lot of the. celebrities come in and stuff and that's. really if you're going to be in.

entertainment news you know area that's. like where it's at so. I had called before you know to this. hostess of this party and asked if I. could cover it prior to me getting my. picture that year and I got hung up on. like every year like you know buzz off. you know you know and so basically. after that byline came out and I thought. you know I was bigger than you know. anybody going I took I went over there. >> in your sail.

>> I went over there and I had it laminated. and I dropped it off on the front porch. and then I went around the corner and. got on my cell phone was probably like. this big you know like the bag phones. and stuff and I was like hey you know. it's me I you know I got my. name in the it was USA Today was my. first ever article first ever byline so. to me that was. >> aw that's awesome though. >> well and I I I I. only because a lot of people have to. work their way to get to there for me it. was just kind of being in that right. spot because when I called the editor. like okay we want this don't give it to. anybody else and so that particular um.

just that happenstance moment got me um. into that party. >> mhm. >> and I worked my way through that party. every year and I was kind of like the. go-to guy for all like the weekly. magazines and the celebrity things and. the newspapers. And I actually had it to. where um I don't even know how I did it, but I would always be covering for like. three or four magazines, two newspapers, you know, and and everybody wanted their. own exclusive. So I was like but I. wasn't really like a paparazzi. Like I.

didn't stand and like like wait, you. know, hide. >> was that was going to be my next. question. Was it more like paparazzi? But you were interested in the. journalism side of it, which I think is. awesome cuz I love journalism and I feel. like journalism is such a dying art, especially now with social media. So I. think that's really cool. >> Well, I started out um. uh you know, the even though the. photograph was one of my first things. along with a little byline or whatever. Um. I remember uh. after that I started, you know, doing. the written reports. So I would go on.

like I went on tour with like um. different music artists. They'd they. would assign me to like uh the Lilith. Fair with the Dixie Chicks and all that. Remember all that? >> Of course. That was like what a time to. be alive. >> Yeah. >> Like it was awesome. >> And then they um I got on this they. stuck me on this um. Ricky Martin thing where everybody was. like going crazy about, you know, it was. like the whole Livin' La Vida Loca. thing. >> Give me give us some Ricky Martin tea. >> Well, you know, honestly, the thing with. the um. Ricky Martin, I mean I mean he was. always really cool to me. They always.

let me go backstage. I had really good. access and stuff. The thing that. happened to me is I wrote an article. and after like the 15th concert I was. like, you know, what else can I say? But. you know, that you know, when your. editor is telling you what to do, you're. like, you know, hey, I've got to do. this. So. >> Mhm. >> I remember um. we it was around Christmas and I had I. think I was all the way up in like. Columbus or something and there was a. Christmas show and there was a one of. there's a lot of stuff that happened. I. don't think that anything was like, oh. my god, crazy, but it was like I was. like saying, okay, here's what happened.

to the editors and and I turned my story. in. Well, they took um everything that I. wrote and then one little sentence that. I wrote that was said um, that a male dancer gave Ricky a kiss on. the cheek. So, that was the headline. >> And ran with it. >> So, then I started getting calls from. like Ricky's publicist, and she was like. saying, you know, oh, he's, you know, what he's what's going on, you know, I. was like, so I mean, I don't want to get. into like too much of cuz it's really. wasn't it wasn't my as far as like the. >> intention. >> It wasn't my intention, and then I was.

at the the mercy of like a newspaper, but like after that I I um, because of I understood where they were. coming from of like, you know, why did. this happen when there was this and. this, and um, I kind of changed my focus. I was like, and I had a couple run-ins. I can't name. the name of but I had a celebrity run-in. that I had where um, I had to stand up for the truth of what, you know, my interview was, and that led. to uh, me just getting kind of a sour.

taste in my mouth about like the written. part of it. >> Especially back then. >> Yeah. >> Because I mean, we have clickbait now, and but it's nothing like it was back. then in, you know, the early 2000s where. the paparazzi and the um, Enquirer, and. like all those tabloids were just. insane. They were looking they were like. vultures. They would literally I've had. so many guests so celebrity guests that. are on the couch and talk about how you. know, back then they would pretty much. blackmail people and say, you either.

have to do this interview with us, or. we're going to run our version of what. we. care to tell the world. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's It's but they um, I I I mean, there there was always um, you know, I guess after those stories and things, and and it wasn't specific like about. um, anyone artist. I just kind of felt. like it was a it was a need to kind of. transition to photographs, cuz I felt. like. the photographs, they're not going to. edit my photographs. I mean, they could,

but they're they're, you know, they. speak for themselves. >> they didn't have AI back then, so they. couldn't like contour. >> before that, yeah. That's how ancient I. am, but like, you know, it it. >> Same. >> It it uh. >> We have the We share the same birthday, which I love. >> Yeah. >> that you're born on January 22nd, cuz I. don't meet very many people who are born. on January 22nd. >> same day. >> Yeah. >> You know, and Anna Nicole Smith Daniel. was born the same day. >> I do know that. I do know that. We'll. talk about that in a little bit. I went. and visited their graves in the Bahamas. whenever I went there. Um yeah, it was I've always been a huge.

Anna fan. Um so, moving on from that, what what was your most Besides, you. know, meeting Anna Nicole, of course, but who was your favorite celebrity to. work with and who was your least. favorite if you could tell us? >> You know, I honestly I I don't know if. it's just because I I try to be nice to. everybody and that's just I was brought. up in a way, you know, you know, open. doors for, you know, people and help. people cross and not to be cliche. >> Yeah, well, thank you, but I I I never. really um.

didn't have a whole lot of beef with. people. I I I will say that um. one of the sweetest people that I. actually met way back before all my. craziness and then had and then I. wouldn't say met again, but they didn't. really remember me again, but we. developed a great relationship and. Dannielynn. uh was really um. just loved this person was Loretta Lynn. >> Aw. >> Just the sweetest. >> That's amazing. >> And Dannielynn actually looked up to her. like she was a grandmother, you know, type figure and we can talk about it. later with the absence of, you know,

Anna's mom being a um. that grandmother type, but but um yeah, so that was one of the nicest, I would. say. But I like I had I went on tour. with like Tina Turner concerts and a lot. of different really. >> so cool. Like no not many people can say. that. Like you went on tour with Tina. Turner. Like that's amazing. How was she. as a as a human? >> she was nice. I I honestly didn't spend. a ton of time with her. It was just to. be in the presence of someone with.

>> Yeah, to even see a show from her. Like. that's amazing. >> But I like I I kept finding myself in. these weird situations. Like I would be. sent from one job to the next and I was. kind of on a roll. And it did a lot for. my self-confidence cuz I wasn't really a. big I wasn't always confident about. myself and I I was this always like the. lanky kid in school that was like, you. know, like stuffing my shirts with like. fake muscles or something or double. layering the clothes. So for to me it was like, you know, it. it did a lot for me, you know, myself. and my confidence for all that. But I.

I just kept moving into something else. I remember like one time um I was out in. LA and I don't know how this happened, but I was covering. a There was a reporter that canceled for. what a major news organization and I did. the red carpet for them. And um I was backstage when Halle Berry. won her award for the best actress or. whatever. >> For Monster? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it's weird because she came I I. guess she did some press in a different.

area that I wasn't at. She came back off. the stage and she ran off the stage and. I was like happy for her. I'd never met. her in my life. And I opened my arms and. and like she was like, "Oh my god." And. like she hugged me and then it it was. like a good probably 10 seconds and she. started to go like this. Like. >> She's like, "All right, enough, buddy. Who are you?". >> Yeah, because it was like like the. reality set in is like, "I don't know. this guy." And but you know, it's like. >> You guys were both so caught up in the. moment. Like what a sweet moment. >> I was happy for her and you know, I'm sure she probably doesn't remember,

but it was like to me it was like just I. I just kept finding myself in weird. spots. >> Yeah, well, you were meant to be there. for a reason. Even though you might not. know why, you still were meant to be. there for a reason. She needed that hug. >> I I um But after that I I I went on and. I I continued to do the Derby Beat every. year. And that's when in um. 2000 and I'd say 2002 it started getting. really crazy. There were a lot of like. crazy celebrity happenings. There was a. time when Pam Anderson came. She was.

dating Kid Rock at the time to this um. the Barnstable Brown Gala and it was. like this. a real chaotic and like celebrities go. to it's like a back door backyard bash. but a like a really cool gala. And it's. like for diabetes so people are doing a. good thing but also having a great time. and it's like so Pam Anderson's there. It's a new relationship with Kid Rock. and um. you know and. I guess the a lot of the media started. spinning things from the night into. different tales. >> Wow. >> And and and yeah and it was like by the.

end of the time when it was done she was. on the ground licking like some bald. head's fans head or it was you know and. then all of this stuff came into like. >> happen? >> Well there was some crazy things that. happened. It was a year like when Anne. Heche the actress was there and you know. and like there was a lot of like crazy. things and. I I don't I you know I don't want to say. every single thing but I'll say that um. out of that some of the stuff that was. reported that whole thing got caught up. in Pam Anderson I think in Tommy Lee's. divorce or something was going on at the. time and it was going back and forth and.

and and uh I don't know or or some. divorce case she was in and so basically. uh. it was like um. news. So the following year. you know. um. it was 2003 and um I was back on the. same beat again and um all these. celebrities were announced of who was. coming and one of the celebrities was. Anna Nicole Smith. And I was going down the list of the. celebrities with my editors and they're. like okay.

good good good good you know and they. were just like telling me what we want. me to do and they're like okay Anna. Nicole's coming don't leave her side. And I was like okay all right yeah. whatever you know and I. >> So okay pause right there. Were you a. fan of Anna before meeting her? >> I I had watched mean, >> she's like every guy's fantasy, but you. know. >> obviously like, you know, uh. posters, you know, when she was, you. know, when doing Guess and stuff and all. that I had that and and uh you know, I. seen her in the magazines probably long. before, you know, like I should be, you.

know, I'm like going through magazines. in my dad's room and stuff. >> Yeah. >> You but but like. >> I mean, I did, too. >> The. >> She was hot. >> Yeah. Um so, yeah, I knew of her, but I. also knew of like the headlines, the. things that people had said about her. >> Right. >> So, I you know, had. >> being in that industry, like you still. believed headlines because you knew how. they worked. >> Well, I really don't I don't know that I. believe them. I'm I'm always like open. to like, you know, finding out for. myself. >> Got you. >> But I was, you know, look it's it's uh.

>> We're human, so we're going to we're. going to judge. >> Yeah. Um. But at the same time, you know, like um. it was it was when during the the her. reality show. >> Oh, okay. >> So, basically, she was in the middle of. shooting reality show. The same year. Jessica Simpson was there. She was. shooting her reality show. I think Janet. Jackson and La Toya Jackson hadn't seen. each other in years or whatever they. were together. It was like all these. weird things were happening. >> I feel like it was such a cool time back. then. Like we don't have that anymore. Like there's no organic like celebrities.

don't talk anymore. They've learned. their lessons because of that era. >> So, but it it's it's it was weird though. that that that night just seemed a. little bit weird. But I will say, you. know, Anna was doing her thing. She was, you know, you know, when they shoot. reality scenes that it seemed like. somebody was kind of telling them you're. going to do this, you're going to do. this or whatever. And totally was she. was busy. I kind of took note of her, took pictures. >> How'd you feel the first time you saw. her? >> I honestly thought um. you know, that she was extremely pretty. I thought she was Now, and I don't mean.

this in any different way, but you know, Anna's weight had gone up and down. This. was when she was at her heaviest and I. looked at her and I thought, "Wow, you know, people were making fun of her. in the press about her weight and stuff. and I still thought I was like. say what you want, but this is like. she's beautiful. Like, you know, and and. um so I there wasn't a lot of. interaction then because I feel like she. with as but as far as between the two of. us, but there was a time when I went. over and um um I just introduced myself. or whatever and um she gave me a kiss on.

the cheek and. it was it wound up somehow making it. into her reality show episode that that. and so my friends were calling me. saying, "Hey, dude, I saw you on Anna. Nicole Smith." So, I didn't think. anything of it and you know, I went. about my life, my business or whatever. and um got some great pictures that. year, but the next year was it was 2004. Literally because the Derby's always the. same day, the first Saturday in May. every you know, so and this is party's. always on Friday. I was literally. standing in the same spot that I was a. year before that and probably pretty.

much every year prior, but and Anna. Nicole was placed at the same table. And. she gets out of this bus first though. This big bus pulls up and I'm like, "What the hell is going on?" And it's. like people are screaming and stuff. It. was like the Beatles had arrived or. something and it was like what what's. happening? And all of a sudden you see. this big black bus go down the side with. Anna's face on it and it said TrimSpa. You know, >> That was her TrimSpa era. >> Yeah, yeah. >> TrimSpa baby. >> So, you know, and for those that don't.

know, I guess it's a it's a diet pill. that Anna was endorsing. So, um. >> That was the era of diet pills cuz I was. on diet pills then, too. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um but the door to the bus opened up. And. I saw like this diamond ring fly out and. like. T-shirts started flying. Like, she was. throwing T-shirts off and like I'm like, "What is she doing?" It's like she. started hitting the ground running with. doing promo. Like, basically she was. throwing TrimSpa T-shirts out to. everybody. >> like she was really good at promoting.

herself. >> Yeah. >> And uh like it says in the documentary, which we'll start talking about in a. little bit, um. she. as soon as the cameras were on her, she. came alive. >> Yeah. It was a different It was. It was almost like a light switch. Like. you know, I think of I was thinking. about it earlier and I was thinking what. the the transition of that, but um. which we could talk about, but. um yeah, so t-shirts were flying and. people were screaming and and and I and. there were a lot of celebrities there. And and.

all heads turned when she got off that. bus. >> Mhm. >> She had on this black dress. It was like. low-cut with these rhinestones and she. had, you know, her hair was all up like. jewelry just flashing every time I took. a picture it was flashing all over the. you know, it was like it was like. it was kind of like an aura. >> Mhm. >> You know, like when she moved through. the crowd. >> Yeah. >> And people were like. but I mean, I was still in the mode. because I had a job to do. I had like. several jobs to do. So, I was like I I. really wasn't like um reading too much.

into it other than like that wow. But also the transition of the year. prior to that. >> Right. >> She had and and lost all of that weight. You know, and now she's this diet pill. spokesperson, but she's still people are. still talking about her even more. She's. like just literally reinvented herself. >> She was polarizing. >> It it and and also like when I saw her. in 2004. I thought she was it was very. distinctively different than she was in. her guest days.

>> Mhm. >> But it was a total different kind of. beautiful. It was just It was weird. It. was almost like a different person. >> Mhm. >> But. >> A different era for her. >> Yeah. And and but I also think she was. exuding something like some different. energy, you know, like if you believe in. like energy and. >> Of course, yeah. >> and I I it wasn't like um. oh hi, nice to meet you when I talked to. her. It was like, you know, she was bubbly and she was and actually. after the fact um. video kind of came out of this and it so.

it exist of actually the time. in 2004 where she actually turns to her. attorney who was on her reality show and. he was yeah and um. she asks us who's that and he says. uh oh that's Larry. and she's like who and it's really loud. in there and he goes Larry and she goes. I she and then she still didn't hear him. so she asked again in this video and um. Howard says who cares you know you've. had such a great year and he was like. pumping her up for like her you know.

that was just part of his job you know. but it was weird that she was going out. of way to ask and I was like uh well. after I've seen that since but at the. moment I still didn't think anything. about it you know so she had this table. all set up and everybody you know booze. is flowing and everything's going and. people are having a good time and you. know um. Kid Rock was on the stage and like. there's all these performances people. just get up and start jamming for no. reason and so she was all into the. performance and stuff but she was. watching me take pictures of her. and she was a master.

at not being obvious but giving me the. poses and stuff that she thought that I. needed. >> Right. >> So it was kind of cool cuz I'm like okay. she gets this cuz it's like we're having. a photo shoot. >> But she's flirting with you. >> Well I you know honestly I I like it. goes back to confidence again I guess. you know I I I didn't I didn't think. that. >> you had a chance with Anna Nicole. >> Never in a million years I would I would. I ever ever in my mind think that like I. literally in fact I was so embarrassed. cuz like she handed me a drink or. something off this table and I don't.

know what I was drinking but I and so I. was drinking on the job which was. probably dangerous taking pictures and. whatever. >> So wait you don't work for them anymore. do you oh wait yeah you do do you still. work for them? >> You know well I don't work for them but. I I my own boss but like at the same. time like I you know it it you know. that's gone. >> It was a different era. >> A different time you know drinking on. the job but uh. yeah so I uh. I I I picked the drink up and and it's. in this video too and I like literally. drink and I I drink much so it didn't it. was like heavy bourbon or something. It's like and almost spit it out, but I. when I look at my reaction on the video.

that I've seen now, I look like, you. know, Don Knotts on Three's Company. It's like, you know, like some bubbling. fool or something. And like I don't know. what it was, but she laughed. And and um. >> Women do love men that make them laugh. That's what I loved about my husband. >> Yeah. And I mean. So something about that moment, I I. guess um. I I got another kiss that this was a. little bit different than the first peck. on the cheek or whatever, you know. And um. I I said to her, I said, you know, I'm. going to be taking pictures tomorrow and.

I just wanted you to know that I'll be. around. So I'm not going to bother you. or whatever and. whatever and um I got this call from. Anna's attorney who said. um Howard who said. um Anna's going to be down the gift shop. shopping for her Derby hat and some. things if you want to, you know, take. pictures. I'm like, yeah, yeah, you. know, so my editors I knew would eat it. up. So I was like got down there and um. I got there and she was wearing this. tank top that said Anna Nicole on it and. um. she uh.

I'm sorry. Sorry about that. Um. >> Mhm. It's okay. >> It's too early to start. >> No, it's okay. I can imagine how you. feel inside. >> But I I um. I. It's it's weird because I see that in my. head um. the photograph that I took of that. Cuz my brain thinks like um. a photographer. So I think in my mind um.

when I think about these things, I see. the pictures that I took. So. anyway, so we're going to. >> No, you're okay. This This is a complete. safe space. Trust me. We'll be crying. with you by the end of this interview, I. promise. Mimi's already crying. >> Um. But anyway, so she. super bubbly like, you know, and you. know, and. she was walking around this. um hat store or whatever. It was kind of. like a pop-up shop or whatever you call. it. And.

she. she said, "What do you think about this. hat? What do you think about this hat?". We went through the aisle and stuff and. and like and she got to this one hat and. she tried it on and um. I had already seen her reality show, so. I knew pink was her favorite color. >> Mhm. >> And so the hat that she had asked me my. opinion on was pink and I said, "Uh. that's it." She put it on us like, "That's it." You know, cuz like it. looked. great on her. And she had not she wasn't. dressed ready ready for the Derby yet, but she just had her jeans and a tank. top and stuff on.

So, um. took some photos, didn't think much of. it. Um. and I got ready for the big Derby race. that next day and or that same day. actually, a couple hours later. And um you know, Kim Cattrall from Sex. and the City was there and I was trying. to get a picture of her and you know, and she I was like, "Can I get a. picture?" You know, I don't go up and. stalk people and say So, I always talk. to their publicist and stuff and tell. them who I'm working for and stuff and. she's like, "Um and Kim Cattrall turned to me and. she's like, "Are you any good?" And like. like Samantha. You know, like you know,

just she said it just like that. I was. like, "Oh, wow.". >> I I I picture Kim Kim Cattrall being how. Samantha is. I feel that's very true to. life. >> Yeah. And it was like I it was like kind. of surreal and I was like, you know, and. then Jessica Simpson was there and you. know, she wasn't near as friendly as. Anna and she was tied up with I guess. she was married to Nick Lachey at the. time and they were doing that Newlyweds. or whatever. And um. so I I was kind of just observing the. room or whatever and and um. then it was weird. It was like.

the sea parted and. I looked down this this hallway. and um. it was like a moment out of like uh. Baywatch. >> Aw. >> You know, where they're on the beach. trying to start or maybe it was just in. my mind or whatever. But I saw that hat come come um. I I saw it come down the aisle way and I.

was like um there there she is. I was. like, "Wow." You know, and I didn't see. her outfit yet. But I we were she was. getting closer to me or whatever and. people were just like mobbing her and. stuff and she stopped and I literally. got my camera out and I zoomed in to see. like, you know, what I could see. And um. cuz I had forgotten what my job was. after I saw. >> I mean, I would, too. I would, too, if I. saw Anna Nicole coming towards me. >> Yeah. And um. so anyway, so she came closer and she.

had on this pink and kind of like. low-cut dress and these gloves and she. looked kind of like a debutante like, you know, like her big hat and she was. playing, you know, the part and. I I it was just um. not to overplay it or kind of. overemphasize it because I've said it. before like the previous night, the. energy was different. >> Right. >> It was like a It was like she was just. kind of like. it was just like rolling off of her good. aura, you know, and people wanted just. to be and I mean like.

>> Well, the stars were aligning for you. guys, that perfect storm and then also. she was on momentum from all the, you. know, stuff that she was doing. >> But she um. you know, she she was still shooting her. show at the time and I think maybe her. show. possibly the series could have ended, but she was shooting specials. And so this was part of a special that. was rolled into like her makeover. special. Um she went up and cussed out the disc. jockey Howard Stern in in the same.

episode and then she comes to the Derby, you know, so um. >> Yeah, just so we can for people who are. listening, when we talk about her. attorney Howard K. Stern, it is not. Howard Stern the disc jockey. >> No, no, not at all. And and and Howard. Stern the disc jockey will be quick to. tell you that is not me. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll actually see him on Tuesday or. Monday. I'm sitting down for an. interview with him, so I'm excited. Yeah. >> So, um. I lost my thought. Where were. >> So, you were talking about how the sea. parted and she just had this energy.

exuding off of her. >> Yeah. So, she um it was just weird. Like. people, autographs, pictures, and she. never said no not to one person. So, it took her forever to get down this. hallway where she was. And then there. was there were rows of tables. um and. she sat down at this table and I had um. there were some seats that were missing. I really wasn't supposed to be sitting. down, but I was talking to people and I. was tired. So, eventually, after she. made her way in there was all this.

hubbub and you know, um. Kid Rock was on one side. yelling at her about her cameras, turn. off your effing cameras, and she was. yelling back. And he's like, "Your. bodyguards overdressed." And he's she's. like uh and she's like, you know, screaming back at him and they got into. it. But, it was like. >> see old Bob hasn't changed. >> But, it's it's weird that but it was. making good stuff for her TV show. >> Right. >> And along with just crazy stuff was. happening. She was getting up. And by.

that time she started having a few. drinks. >> Right. >> And there were tequila trays coming and. all this stuff. I looked over at one. point and like some girl was like doing. a shot off of her chest. You know, like. and of course I got a picture of that. too, you know. And uh. And just so happened to be. And um. But, during all that she. I I spoke to her again. And um. I was sitting at the table behind her. She had her back turned to me. Her son. Daniel was there. They was kind of neat. to watch the two of them and um they.

were you know, she was helping him pick. horses and things and to bet on and um. And just a lot of chaos and noise. And. uh um, she reaches behind the table and she. grabs my she puts her hand out and she's. got this gigantic like diamond rock on. these over top of these pink gloves and. she's like, you know, and it was like. blinding me and she's like grabbing my. hand. She goes, "Come here. Come here.". And um, I got up and she got up and then. she starts. squeezing on my butt.

>> Yeah. >> like and my face turned beat red because. when I looked up I had three reality. show cameras pointed at me. >> Right. >> And I was. >> she was in the crack. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I've seen the video. >> Oh, [ __ ] You've seen it? >> I've seen the video. Like yeah, it's. like how I wish Jay would let me rub his. butt. All right. I mean. she was groping you. >> My actually my daughter saw that and she. said it was cringe. >> Yeah. >> But um, yeah, so.

sh- I I would I said something stupid. like there's nothing back there to grab. or anything I could think of. Just cuz I. was like so embarrassed, you know. And um, so she was just having fun and you know, at at the time I I said uh, I said last year you were here and you. gave me a kiss on my cheek or something. I I don't know. Something stupid I said. And I go, "My girlfriend wiped it off. cuz she was mad." She goes, "Oh, come. here. We'll do it again." She goes, "I. need a picture of this." And she turns. and she tells people to take the. pictures of us, you know. And so she. starts kissing me and like and her.

bodyguard's sitting there, you know, like this. He's got like one of those. Janet Jackson headsets on and he's like, >> Did she have Mo at the time? >> a whole 'nother thing, but yeah, yeah. So he was there and like, you know, and. I was like I was like I wasn't worried. about anything, but I was like at the. same time I'm like I did have a job to. do, you know. >> Right. I mean, but you're literally. getting groped and just um, immersed in. Anna Nicole. So I mean at that time I. can understand why you wouldn't want to. do your job. >> Yeah, it was it was definitely a.

a different day at work that day, but. um, >> Did you have the same girlfriend at this. time? >> No. Not No. And and. uh didn't mean I didn't call her and. tell her that I got another kiss. >> Yeah. Just turn Just twist it a little bit. more. >> you wiped off last year? I got another. one. I got more this year than that one. But, uh. No, but like So, after that, um you. know, then my pictures came out. It It. was like another I wrote another article. for USA Today, different magazines and. stuff. >> Well, wait. How does that night end? She's rubbing your butt.

>> Well, honestly, so. I I was. It was weird cuz I I am so I'm so shy. when it comes to like that. I'm not like. I'm the really an introvert. Never in a. million years would I think I have the. courage to even talk to Anna Nicole. I. wasn't really going to ask her on a date. or anything. But, in a way I kind of. did. I was like, "Hey, so some And this. is all captured on video. I was. embarrassed about it later when I see. it, you know, today. Cuz I was so cheesy and like. >> your shot, baby. >> And I I was like, you know, "Hey, some. friends are going down to whatever club.

and, you know, do you if you think you. want to go?" And she's like, "Yeah, yeah, you know." But, it was kind of. like I didn't. I didn't want to like be pushy. I didn't. know like what was going on. I really. you know, like I said, confidence was I. didn't read a bunch into it. And I was. like, "Okay, another night. That was. fun. That was cool." And uh. I didn't know, you know, if I would ever. see her again. And so. >> Were you hoping that you saw her again? And did you want something more out of. that? >> Honestly, like I Yeah, I've been saying. Anna Nicole, you know.

>> Right. >> But, but it did again, I still because I. was watching her like, you know, have. some girls doing shots off of her with. tequila and some guys talking to. >> a room, yeah. >> I I feel like I was just one of the. people that got lucky to be in that kind. of orbit, you know? And it was like a. fun type of thing. It doesn't mean like. like I still remember it like wow, and I. was like taken back by it. But, I I. don't know that I still with everything. considered of how she was acting with. everybody that it it was like a anything. special. >> Right, right. >> You didn't feel. >> So, I um. >> That goes back to your confidence,

though. >> Yeah, I mean, what do you say? I'm I'm. working on it. I'm working on it. We'll. talk about. >> Yeah. >> Uh. but at the same time I like the the the. the the pictures came out uh from that. and like, you know, and um it was. positive stuff for Anna like, you know, how she great she looked and it and I. think um her attorney saw it, took note. of it and I I got a um call from him and. said, "Hey, Anna's going to be at this. kids camp. um for charity for um kids that are. impacted by HIV.

and um would you mind. coming and taking pictures?" And I was. like, "Sure, you know." And I literally. >> think that was Anna having him call you? >> I I don't know. Honestly, I know I don't. really know. I I know that his job was. amongst many things, you know, um her attorney, you know, he kind of. was her publicist, manager, everything. was to kind of keep things going for her. and I think because she had always. gotten a negative, not always, but a lot. of the times gotten negative press. >> Right. And so, what you were doing for.

her was giving her positive. >> I I I I want to think that's probably. why I got the call. And um. so, like I literally um. started throwing things in my bag, you. know, when I got the call. I was like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure." And, you know, um took off to Nebraska and um. met the whole crew and she had an. entourage there. Her assistant was. there, her son was there, her dogs were. there. She's back on the bus again. She. had some other people there, you know, floating around. And I um. I was watching her that week because it.

wasn't like the the diamonds, all the. makeup. It was really like a. stripped-down version of her. >> Which I think was the most beautiful. version of her. >> Yeah, it really was. It was like uh. I was like, "Wow." When I saw her with. no makeup on, I was like, "How can you get prettier?" You know, it's. it happens. It's like, you know, I don't. mean that in a any that in a. disrespectful way. >> No, I get it. I'm the complete opposite. I look like a walrus when I don't have. my face painted on. No, she Anna was. like I'm telling you when she didn't. have makeup on she was so gorgeous.

>> It was just It was kind of refreshing to. see because we were kind of in the. sticks somewhere. I went through. cornfields like for hours just to get. wherever I was and. all these kids were like, you know, um. you know, around the circle and she was. meeting these kids and I don't even know. if any of the kids actually knew who she. was. >> No. >> You know, because they were so young or. whatever. I think by the end they all. knew who she was because there was just. a ton of high jinks that happened, but. like. um. but watching her in those moments spend. time with these kids and she started.

getting attached to like a lot of these. kids and she she um. would want to spend time and and um. she would get contact numbers for them. and stuff and it was just such a. different type of Anna. If I were. writing that story, which I did write. something about it and I took pictures. and we were there for like a week. Um it. was. it was kind of like you would never. think that that was a headline that. would come out from Anna like her. spending time with these kids and stuff. And it was I really That was when like.

not just the derby and how pretty and. like kissing and groping whatever. happened with that. It was that moment that I started. feeling like, okay, this is she's. there's something special about her, you. know? >> So, tell me about that week. Personally, work aside, was she happy to. see you when you showed up to when she. first saw you and knew that you were. there to take pictures? How would how. did she react? >> She She was really nice. I mean, I. didn't know, you know, if she would. remember me. I like I you know, I didn't. know if she you know, like I did.

honestly like when you're. when you see the volume and amount of. people that like she interacts with I'm. sure you guys get a. >> My husband She's a Sagittarius. She was a Sagittarius, right? I believe. December. >> November 28th. >> Yeah, she's a Sagittarius. My husband's. a Sagittarius. They remember everybody's. names. They are people. I mean, it is crazy. I I call my husband. a politician. He's not really a. politician, but I he's like the way that. he shakes hands and kisses babies all.

day long and like will remember people. from 10 years ago. It's wild. And Anna. strikes me as the same type. Like she. might not remember people's names, but. she just always makes people feel so. welcome. Even though. >> Everybody felt like they knew her. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. And she was relatable and I think. that's what. people gravitated towards her. Not just. because she was pretty, but also I think. because. >> She was warm. >> She was. She was. But um. during that week at camp, I mean, you. know. I don't know if it's just you know, the.

way I'm wired or whatever. I I literally. A was focused on my job, but also I was. excited to see her, you know, at the. same time. And to be completely honest, like, you know, I'm. you know, at the time I'm I'm um. making good money, but like I know I'm. going to make good money off of this. You know, this is not I'm not you know, the the pictures are you know, I already. had like exclusive. >> Yeah, for sure. >> it's what I do, you know, to. >> You're like you're kind of like becoming. her personal photographer in this. moment. >> started it start it started to feel like.

that, you know, after this event during. that event and after that event, it. started to feel like that. But I um. I um just remember just. kind of like playing it cool, you know, and cuz again, she was she was also. shooting a special Anna goes to camp. >> Right. >> So, you know, and there was there were. storylines that were kind of like I. don't know if they were preset, but they. were in the works and they were I didn't. want to be in the way of it. Um. >> Were you also ever scared that you would. become a storyline with her, too? Was.

that kind of why you were guarded? >> No, you know, the not really, but the. first day in journalism school, they. tell you don't you know, don't become. the story. You know, don't don't it's. hard when you cross that line, you know, So, I I was trying to be like because I. was still doing written work on her at. that time. >> Right. >> And you know, flirting aside or. whatever, like I had a story to write. It wasn't like I was doing this. hard-hitting like 60 Minutes piece. It. was a if you know, a fluff story for a. weekly magazine. >> Right. >> still wanted to stay, you know, like you.

know, neutral and and and and kind of. just observe. >> Yeah. >> And um and so, basically that's what I. did, but I I I I remember um. after the week progressed and there were. activities and stuff, she started asking. me to do the activities with them. And. so, like I would put my camera bag down. and I would like start repelling and I'd. start, you know, you know, they had like. a day where they would do a talent. contest and she was uh Whitney Houston. and she was like this white dress on she. was going to be like in The Bodyguard.

and then her bodyguard comes in and. rushes and saves her. And then the camp. told her her dress was too you know, too. low-cut and there was a whole thing for. the reality show that kind of played. into that, but. so, there was a lot of stuff going on. and I just kind of tried to stay out of. the way, but since she invited me into. that space and she's like, "Why don't. you come in?" And even though they were. filming, I even I was hesitant, shy. I. didn't like go out of my way to like. start talking to the cam, you know, and. and make myself a presence in it. I. just, you know, it was like kind of cool. hanging out and doing stuff. And um.

we got to the last night of the camp and. it was starting to wind down. They had. activities and they were. they reflect on like how the camp. changed you. And it was really a it was. a for me, Anna aside, it was like a a a. really kind of moving week to see the. kids and how they it was either kids. that were um that had HIV or were. impacted by it some way. >> And um. that to to have them in a a a setting. where they felt safe. and to watch, you know, Anna interact.

with them and how she was doing, it it. was a weird it was a it was a cool thing. and I think in my mind she got points. because I thought whatever you've heard. about this girl previously, >> Mhm. >> you know, this is this is a little bit. different than what you've heard, you. know. >> Yeah. >> Um. you know, Anna always was the gold digger, you. know, we'd always hear things like out. of control, train wreck, things. This. was so far from that. >> Right. >> Um. >> Was she sober during these trips that. you were on? >> Yeah, I mean, aside from like um.

well, up to this point, yeah, she I. mean, I'd only seen her like a few. times, but um the camp Stone Cold's. over. >> Okay. >> Uh and like there were there was no. drinking allowed at the camp. I mean, she was like I mean, she was digging in, doing art, painting, and like I mean, and it was enough to you could see it. was kind of exhausting her, like she. worked herself up even though she was. filming and doing stuff. I felt like she. still um. it was just special. It's hard to. explain. But um. after that we left, we went to a um a. a retirement center, and.

where she started just talking to all. these like the old people in the. retirement center, and she brought her. dogs and was passing them around, and. and that part wasn't filmed. So, it. wasn't like this was a setup for. something. It was like some just random. moment, you know, and uh. and I just remember watching her going, "Wow, you know, like this is something. different and something cool." And um. I was getting my stuff together cuz they. were getting ready to get on the bus, and um. she was in her room, and I came into her.

room, and she was dipping. um. lollipops in pickle juice. >> Oh. >> And like And I go, "What are you doing?". She goes, "Having some pickle pops." I. go, "What?" She goes, "Pickle pops." I'm. like, "Oh, okay.". So, I'm like, "Never heard of that." She. goes, "Why don't you try one?" I'm like, "All right." And you know, so I was. trying one, and. um. and her attorney's buzzing around, and. like people are trying to get all of her. her assistants trying to pack her stuff. up, dogs are barking, and. and um. she's signing some autographs for people. to give to them before she leaves us, you know, kind of a parting thing, and.

you know, and um. I was like uh, eating this. pickle juice something or whatever and. she. >> How how did it taste? >> You know, that at first it wasn't great, but then. she. she decided she wanted to play a game. with the pickle pops. So she put her. pickle pop in her mouth and she told me. to twist it in my mouth. So we were. playing like spin the bottle with the. lollipop or pickle. >> Oh. >> So. it was just like she was kind of a kid. at heart, you know. >> Oh, she's very childlike. >> Yeah. >> Mhm.

>> And um, and out of that the pop dropped and then. of course there was some a couple more. kisses and stuff and then you know, I. was getting and then I got like a couple. little bad looks over my shoulder from. you know, like you know, the entourage. like oh my God, what is you know, what. that guy doing? Get him out of here. whatever. And so um, I didn't want to wear my welcome out and. I was like, you know, thank you so much. for this opportunity and I appreciate it. and I'm you know, I'm going to turn this. stuff in and I think you'll like it. I what you did with this week was great. and.

and she was leaving and she goes here, let me. write you one of these and she wrote to. Larry and I was like trying to figure. out what she write. And I was like um, and she hands me this. It's like her an. 8 by 10 like glossy. promo shot of her trim spa stuff with. like a. She's like basically shirtless with a. towel holding up to her and like. and I read it and it says to Larry my. pickly pop and I'm like p i c k.

l a is like it was spelled wrong it's. like and I was like I was like all right. and then below that it said love Anna. Nicole and I was like. um, I was like oh, thank you so much. I. appreciate that. I'm like I'm going to. put that in my room and you know, I was. like still embarrassed and I don't know. what to say. And um, it was like we were like. 18 years old like like that's how we. were maneuvering through this, you know, and um, so basically she gives me this and I and. I said, "Well, you know, hope to hear. from you sometime and if there's.

anything else coming up." She goes, "Oh, hold on a second." And she sticks the. Sharpie and she starts writing. these numbers down. She wrote her number. on the. the picture. >> Aw. >> And I was like, "What's that?" And she's. like I was trying to play dumb. I was. like, "What's that?" And she's like, "My. number." And I'm like, "Oh, I'm sure. it's the wrong number." She goes, "Well, call it, dummy." So, I called it and of. course it's ringing right there and so. she's like And she goes, "Well, now I. got your number, huh?" And so like and I. was like, "Yeah.". And um. again, you know, I went home, did my. thing, this my story came out.

>> Okay, hold on now. So, you're walk you. walk out of this room, you have Anna. Nicole's number. How are you feeling in that moment? >> You know, honestly, I it the whole week. was so kind of crazy and and emotional. with the kids and. um. you know, and it was it was a contrast. from the Derby which was crazy and this. was kind of like low-key but like still. things were going on and. um I I I don't know. I I might be just dumb. I just I was I.

did I still thought it was cool. >> Yeah. >> And I I thought I liked this girl, you. know, but I. >> weren't sending any you up texts at 2:00. 8:00 2:00 in the morning or anything? >> honestly, I I it I I went home and I I. was scared to call it cuz I thought. maybe she just kind of felt guilty about. and gave me the number, you know, I felt. I I just feel like I wasn't entitled to. it, you know? And I still felt like part. of me was like not that I was working. for her but I had just done this story. and things and I was like This is. I was in my head thinking, you know,

that my journalism teacher was talking. saying, you know, "Be a blah blah Don't. blur the lines." And. >> Yeah. >> So, anyways, it was it was fine but I I. left, I went home and um. um I was literally little ways down the. road and I get this call from Anna. and she's like, "Do you want to go out. to California and. work on some calendars and some photos. for me. I'm want to jump-start my store. And I'm like, "Sure, you know, what I when?" And she's. like, "Right now.".

So, literally, I wanted up going. straight from there. I said, "Well, I said, 'Listen, I've got. to go home. I'm but I definitely want to. do this.'" And um I went home. and I said, "Can you give me how when. will you guys be in in um town?" And. she's like, "Well, it'll take us a few. days to get there with the bus.". Went home um. she calls and she's like, "Well, there's. a something is come up. I need you to go. to Vegas." So, I wound up getting. rerouted to Vegas. >> Yeah. >> Um there was she had a party out there.

Um. and after all that, I wound up going. back to her house from all that. And so, it was like a. it was like this whirlwind thing that I. didn't know what was happening, to be. honest. >> So, let's pause right there cuz I want. to ask a couple questions. Um. being around her crew. >> Mhm. >> and seeing how they all interacted and. stuff like that, what was the vibe that. you got from like Howard K. Stern and. just her crew that she had around around. her? Did it feel like they were very.

enabling? Did it feel like they were. controlling? Or at this point in time in. the story. was it kind of like copacetic? >> You know, at the still at this time, it. was kind of so early that I I I was. you know, I I. I was kind of getting used to what. the hierarchy was. >> Right. >> And and and knowing that like who did. what and what was expected of this. person. I think that um. I I don't know that the beginning that I. got the idea that anybody was.

controlling her. I think that people were um a lot of. people were. telling her things like. um. yes answers to everything. Like, you. know, yes men and you know, oh, you. know, should I do this job? Yes. You. know, this is going to be great for your. career. Do this. >> Yeah. >> And it was like a lot of advice that she. was getting from people. There was also. like, you know, a lot of people jockeying for her. attention. >> Right. >> You know, all the time. And everybody,

honestly, that um. that was around her, I felt like had a. different interest. >> Right. >> You know. >> Somebody is. Somebody It was just different ulterior. motives all around. >> Yeah, and then I don't And I don't mean. that always really in a negative way. Like somebody could be like in love with. her or obsessed with her or they could. be in a in or just dedicated to her. You. know, but she had people at her beck and. call. >> Do you feel like Howard K. Stern was one. of the people who was obsessed with her. and in love with her?

>> At first, I didn't think that because I. knew what she told me about him. >> Mhm. >> But it wasn't until. um I didn't get a feel for any of this. stuff like in detail where I started. making like. um. mental notes of like what people's. agendas were, what they thought about. different things, until I actually. came to her house with her. She said, "Come on." And I I brought some of my. stuff out. I did I I still had a place.

back home. I didn't like get rid of my. stuff. I wasn't moving in. I was just. coming out there to work on the calendar. and. >> was the first night that you guys had. spent together when we paused. >> The first time that we were in um. in Los Angeles and together, yeah. >> Take me Take me on that journey, the. first night you guys are together, and. then we'll kind of intertwine it with. what you learned by being in her house. >> Well, the. Backing up in that that trip in Vegas. was one of the first times that we were. together together. I had actually um you. know, the fastest version of it is is.

that I actually. >> We don't want the fastest version, Larry. >> I I. >> We do not want the fastest version. >> I was. To get ready to go to that trip that put. me to Vegas to meet her, I actually fell. in the bathroom and I like hurt my back. in Kentucky and I didn't think I was. going to make it. >> Oh, no. >> literally getting ready to cancel the. trip. >> How did you fall in the bathroom? >> like was running into the bathroom, slid. in some water or something and and just. fell down straight on my back and. crashed and I was like, "Okay, this is. it's over." You know. >> Larry. You poor baby. You're just having.

a rough go over here. >> I I. I um. I got I I was like, "I'm going to cancel. them at No, I'm going to try to do. this." So, I got on the plane, I went. I. get to the um hotel in Vegas where they. were at the Hard Rock in Vegas and um. I I let. um her assistant know that I'm there. Come up to this room or whatever I was. told. I got a you know, I have my. suitcase or whatever and I get there and. um.

I go down this hallway and it's like. this gigantic suite or whatever and. um. I get to the back room and Anna is in. this. bed. She's in the bed watching like. Nightmare on Elm Street or something. You know, it's like it was like a scary. movie. She's like, "Oh, hi." And like literally. cuz I see things like from a photography. standpoint. She. the she was in a totally white bed with. white sheets, pillows and everything and. all you saw was her face like in all of. that. So, in my mind I was framing up a.

shot, but I I remember it clearly. because I was like um. you know, and and without thinking for a. millisecond I'm like, "Wow, I'm in Anna. Nicole's bedroom." Like where she was. at. And um. she saw me kind of walking weird with my. suitcase and she's like, "What's wrong?". I go, "I'm sorry. I have like I I hurt. my back." And "Oh." You know, she's like. um. "Kimmy, get something for him for his. back." And I don't know. They gave me. some I don't know what it was, but I I. conked out for like I well, I was. getting sleepy. >> Oh, so they just handed you a pill and.

you were like did you have questions. about it? >> I don't think it was like anything like. major. Like I I don't know really what. it really remember what it was, but like. anyway, I was like. go get him something for his back. And. I'm like she's like, "Let me call a. massage a masseuse up here for you or. whatever." And I was like, "What's going. on right now?" I'm like, "Where am I. supposed to put like Can I take this to. my room first?" She goes, "Oh, just sit. it over here." And I go, "Where?" She. goes, "By the bed." And I was like, "Oh, okay." So, I was like I put my suitcase. down. The next thing I know someone's. knocking at the door. There's like this. lady coming to give me a massage. I'm.

like like trying to figure out like. she's like, "Well, just take your. clothes off and come in here." And I'm. like So, I'm like going back in the room. and I'm like I go, um, "Okay." And I'm. like I'm like. >> Larry, you notice Larry doesn't say no. to anything. He's like not questioning anything. He's. like, "You know what? We're just going. to go with it.". >> do it. So, I I literally um. I was literally going to take my pants. off and I was I paused for a second. I. turned around. I'm like, "Oh, [ __ ].

There she is on the bed." She's like, "It's okay. I like small penises. You. can take your pants off." I was like, "What?". >> Sounds like a challenge to me. >> Yeah, yeah. >> She wanted to challenge you. She sounds. like she was a ball buster. >> Yeah, and um. so, after that massage is over or. whatever and like I literally conked. out, went to sleep, and I woke up. It. was like the next morning and is still. watching Freddy Krueger movies. >> Okay, who passes out in bed next to Anna. Nicole Smith? >> know if it's some That's what I'm. saying. Like say I don't know if it was. something that I when I took it, I. passed out.

>> Right. Or you were just so exhausted. from the travel and. >> My like I literally couldn't move my. back. Like literally if she wanted to do. anything, I would probably be like. Like it was probably better that like. nothing happened that night. >> the back feel in the morning? >> It was I I was actually feeling better, but I had problems with it for a while. So, after that happened um they were. getting. >> was still watching. >> When I woke up, she was still watching. Freddy Krueger in the like it was like I. think she was on like the third or. fourth trilogy or something like the. movie or something. >> Wow. >> So, um. yeah, and she's like, "How's your back.

feeling?" I was like I was like, "What. the Where the [ __ ] am I? Like where am. I?" Like I feel like I was in a dream or. something. Like I looked back and I'm. like, um. But I you know and again it was like. >> I love that she laid next to you though. while you were sleeping. >> And and. um. And there was knocks at the door. It was. really chaotic. It wasn't like even. though we were in that room together. Dogs were being handed to her. "Your dog. wants to see you." And like what did. they say that or did you It's like hey. No, it was like But you know and the.

people "Here's your food." And like the. dog room service were coming for the dog. and she's like, "Can you sign that bill. for the dogs?" And I'm like looking at. the thing. I'm like, "$800 for like. steaks for the dogs to And like bottles. of like special water and stuff." And. I'm like. I feel like I was in like like I fell. down like a rabbit hole or something. Like I didn't know where I was. Yeah. >> And um. So anyway like you know she she ended up. being to do I photographed that. She we we um.

That's when she asked me like can Hey, do you want to come back to the house? And so I went back to the house. >> So when you woke up did you guys make. out? Was there any hanky panky? Like. when was the first. >> Not really because after she woke up. that morning there were That's when like. people knocking on the door. People were. coming in for fittings. There were people doing her hair, makeup, you know, and all that stuff. And I really kind of felt like um. when her assistant and some people came. back in the in the room I was like I. felt like um.

I I I. I just got a different feeling like I. don't know if they. want me to be here. >> Right. >> So I don't know that I So I was trying. to like be respectful that she had a job. to do. Um At the same time like you know I'm. just stupid me I'm like, "Okay, you. know, um. let's move on to the next stuff." Right. Nothing really crazy happened until like. she's like, "You do want to go back to. my house?" And I'm like. "Sure." And um. So. um. >> Larry's got long game.

>> We got No, actually no, I don't. That's. why this is so This like. >> I'm I'm totally playing with you. >> of my life has been from even. um. going back to like. breaking into journalism, just being in. that right spot. >> Yeah. >> Some people might say I was in the wrong. spot, but. >> No, but I think your intentions are pure. and that's why you end up in these. situations because you don't have an. evil spirit about it. Like you really. just want to. love people and you know, show them in a good light. You're not.

trying to show these people in a. negative light and I think that that, you know, God and the universe has. placed you in these people's lives for a. reason. >> Thank you. I appreciate that. I um. But I'm still, you know, like I'm I'm. I'm the we we took the bus back. and. >> This is still in California, right? Or. is it Vegas? >> on this bus. >> Got you. >> In this TrimSpa bus and stuff. And so it. has all these bunks in it, you know, side to side and you know, um and. there's like a room in the back and I. grabbed one of the lower bunks and.

they said you can take that one or. whatever. And not the low bunk on the floor on the. ground. >> low. It was. >> Oh, okay. >> I mean, that's probably where I deserve. to be cuz I was like the low man on the. totem pole as far as like the the group. >> like they did you wrong if they put you. on the bottom bunk. >> I was kind of like I remember I was up. like in the middle and then I uh Anna. was getting her stuff and of course. she's always being briefed on stuff. Like tomorrow we're doing this, tomorrow. we're doing that. Like people coming in. and I was kind of like trying to stay. out of it and stuff. And again, I still. felt like I didn't earn my place on the.

bus. I don't know if that's just, you. know, >> No, I get it. I understand that. >> And I I I I I was kind of like uh. I remember closing the curtains and I. was like like. trying to like I was watching a movie in. front of me that was on the bus and um. and finally I was like. it was what's going on here? Like I. still was in kind of disbelief that this. was happening, you know. >> Yeah. >> But I wasn't like because I'd been and. I'd covered celebrities and stuff, I'd. never had this situation. I I I think it. helped me like deal with what I was I. wasn't like my god you know I'm like. >> Yeah.

>> So it was like I was real. kind of cool. Probably not as cool as I. was you know trying to act but um. but. you know I woke up in the middle of the. night and the bus is all jumping and. stuff and you know and um I open my. curtain and I look across and Anna's in. one of the bunks across the way and I'm. like. wait I thought you know she stays in the. back you know. And um. she's watching a movie and stuff and. she's like. she just starts talking to me and stuff. And I was like in the middle of a text. and stuff and she's like who you. texting? And I'm like oh just back home.

to tell you know this girl to watch my. stuff. What's you got a girlfriend? What's her name? You know what's She was. like getting involved in my story and I. was like oh no not really she's just a. friend you know watching my apartment. while I'm gone and you know and she's. like oh cool okay you okay you know. But. I could tell she was kind of like you. know it was kind of weird you know. >> you out. >> Yeah I think and I was like so I was. like um. you know. we were just talking and stuff and had. like talk about we were like talking. over like um.

stuff from like. you know childhood and different things. not not deep stuff. It was kind of like. surface-y stuff like you know and I. didn't really ask her too much about her. stuff. She was kind of asking me you. know about my family and different. things and I was like telling her. And um just like little conversation and. um you know that happened nothing really. major. We get to LA and she lived in. Studio City and the bus wouldn't go up. her hill or canyon or where she lived. and so we stopped in this parking lot. and I remember getting out of that bus.

and thinking are they going to blindfold. me now like in that where I don't know. where I'm going to like the Batcave you. know and like. you know and it was I had that weird. just kind of like. you know feeling. >> I saw it when you walked in here. You're. very suspicious like you like you like. to know what you're walking into. >> Yeah I I I I. well part of it's probably PTSD and like. stuff from like just crazy stuff. happening from my situation, but yeah, I. do like to kind of like and I'm always. scanning when my daughter's with me. Like.

I like a security guard. Like I scan. around. >> Oh, you have to. Yeah, absolutely. >> And I know the people that want to take. pictures. I know the people It's where I. think because I'm ADD, but I'm also I. feel like I'm a little bit. semi-intuitive because they say people. that are ADD, you know, they have. heightened, you know, senses. >> awareness. >> feel like that I um. read the room a lot and I can tell BS. when I see it. >> I'm sure. >> tell all the liars. I I knew I mean I and so I do I kind of. scan ahead, but I I was in this moment I.

was still kind of like. the new kid on the block, you know, and. feel like I didn't deserve to be there. And um. >> Still kind of wondering why you are. there, too, I'm sure. >> Yeah. I mean I you know, I I had planned. on going home. It didn't happen. So you. know, I'm now I'm in in Los Angeles at. Anna's house and um. So. we get into the house and um. and I'm I'm thinking I've seen this. house on reality show. >> Mhm. >> I I you know, I and we were we would sit.

back on, you know, Sundays or whenever. it came on and we would laugh at it, you. know, the show and we would hear some of. the crazy [ __ ]. did and you know, and like and you know, and and um. it it was. you know, it was just like you saw it on. television, but there were actually it's. like the studio is there's like working. lights still set up. So like if you go. under like a catwalk and then there's. like strips of light and there's cords. and different stuff. So like you kind of. feel like you walked onto a hot set, but. you were like in her house.

>> Right. >> and and I was like, okay, this is. different, but whatever. And who am I to. say anything, you know? >> Yeah. >> And. we're up in this canyon, and I remember. and. I remember thinking I mean this is nice. This is a cool house and you know, whatever. And I was nervous still like, you know, and I. cuz it was kind of like when the door. opened for me to come in, the. everybody's demeanor dropped. You know, not Anna's, but everybody else, I felt. like the the mood was flat. Um and I was like, okay. And then Anna.

was telling her assistant, go do this, get Larry, show Larry this and whatever. So. Anna's room is upstairs. Her. >> Please, just to pause you right there. Do you think they did it because they. were jealous of Anna's attention going. to you? >> Yeah, honestly, at that point I I I. didn't know. I knew that um. and I'm friends now and we can talk. about that later with all these people. >> Mhm. >> But I in that moment, I felt like they. might have felt like they were.

threatened because I was getting um the. attention from her that they wanted. >> Right, exactly. >> And um and I felt like that um maybe. it was just awkward, you know. >> Right. You're the new guy, so they were. probably, you know, like, you know, what. what's going on with this situation, too. Trying to figure you out. >> So I um. I I I remember taking my suitcase and I. was going upstairs and there's. three two uh an office and two bedrooms. upstairs. Downstairs was.

Daniel's room, the lowest level, and a. art room. And they kind of showed me around or. whatever. So I'm looking around at the. time that they're showing me going, well, where the [ __ ] am I going to. sleep, you know, like going thinking, you know, like, you know, I don't see a. bedroom that's open. >> Yeah. >> And I'm like, my back's still [ __ ] up. and I don't know about the couch, but. I'm like, I'll like I said, do what I I. have to I'm told to do, you know. >> Right. >> So I I get upstairs with her and she um. she shows me um you know, this this is. my room, this is a and I you know, and. we've all Did you watch her show? >> Of course, yes.

>> Okay, so remember when she had the big. the pink and white fluffy wall and I. think, you know, uh. um decorator did it for the show and. stuff. So, and there was like clouds on. the ceiling with penises in the clouds. and like all this weird stuff. And then. like there's this gigantic pop art. painting of like her old husband on one. side and there's like all this stuff. Dogs are barking, yapping, you know, and. stuff just hung everywhere, clothes and. um, and um, a real chaotic time, you know, when we.

first entered there and I was like she's. like, um, you can put your stuff in the. office. And I was like, "Okay, I'm going. to the office." She goes, "But, you. know, but you can stay in here.". And I go, well, first I went in and I. said, um, is. is there like a um, thing I can put on. the floor for there's like cuz there's a. desk in there, you know. It wasn't that. big. And my my suitcase was in there, but she also had extra clothes in there, too. There was clothes everywhere, on. like racks and racks and racks. So, I was like, "Okay, maybe this is. where, um, I'm going to stay. So, I want.

to be respectful." And I was like, you. know, um, I was like, you know, is there something. I can put on the floor. um, no, she and Anna said, "No, you're. going to stay in here with me." I was. like, "Oh, oh, okay. Um, yeah, okay.". And uh, yeah, so I that's where I went. And so, um, she was territorial about her. closet. And I guess a lot of women, you. know, are and so. my my stuff was put in one room, but I. was allowed to stay in her room with. her. And um,

so, I you know, it was one of those. things where, um, I I you know, I still feel was kind of a. little bit disbelief and I was honestly. nervous, to be honest, because if you. think about, um, it Anna Nicole and like everything she. was and and you know, and seeing her all. this time. And. not like that I was like obsessed with. her or like growing up or whatever. I. knew I was aware of her and I thought. she was like this beautiful, just like. Pam Anderson and all these other women. just like her. And um,

I but I I I I don't know that um I. didn't I still. I I don't even know you might think I'm. the dumbest person in the world. I still. honestly thought she wanted to hang out. and I I know she was being flirty and. I'm not stupid but like at the same time. I didn't want to I didn't know her. enough to know where she was coming. from. >> Right. >> You know, I'm not stupid. I know like. you got you're getting invited to the. bedroom but also I was nervous. There. were so many different emotions going. on. I was trying to be like. >> so much chaos too. So you're like. >> I was walking on eggshells like you know.

in the house kind of. um her dog was sugar pie was like. snapping at my ankles and like attacking. me, you know, it was like you know and. and um. but anyway so like things kind of. settled in and and um. we just started talking and like kind of. like connecting. >> Mhm. >> And and. I learned a lot about her in in those. next few days like you know, and but she. still is forward as she was out in.

public and like grabbing on me and. stuff. She didn't give the same vibe off. where we were in that moment. >> Mhm. >> So like it wasn't like I I thought well. maybe I've done something wrong or maybe. I'm like not like maybe she doesn't like. me maybe you know, I don't know, you. know. So. um but she wanted to talk a lot and she. wanted to sit up and like watch TV and. like paint stuff and do like. crafts and like it was was like really. weird and I'm like okay. So I'm I'm. playing along I'm like you know, you know, it's like.

>> You're in bed doing arts and crafts. >> I still have a stack of paintings to. this day from that that that time but. like yeah um. yeah, it it uh. it was just like I I feel like I was. having fun like she was I almost kind of. on honestly though I feel like um. in that room. the oil man's picture and there was one. on the on the dresser. and she started talking about him and. she started getting emotional about it.

and to where I felt like there was. something there that she hadn't let go. of yet like that she wasn't like even. interested in in anything else from me. I thought you know she's saying she's. saying one thing she might be doing. another but then you see this real. emotion. >> Right. >> from her about like how she felt about. this man and. >> about her ex-husband. >> Yeah, she. >> already passed by then, correct? >> He had passed um in the 90s I believe. and he um you know was this crazy rich. oil man and then she was fighting.

forever you know for for his estate to. get what she said he promised her and. that was going on and on and on and she. had talked a little bit about that. I. didn't get into too much because here's. the problem. You know when I um. first came to her house. she um. you know there was there was um. she was quick to let me know I was a. member of the press. And that in her head. she couldn't get past that in a sense. >> So she was kind of scared.

>> skeptical like I think she liked me and. she knew she she saw I had good. qualities I think I don't know. Um but I think that. she would and maybe it was a jab or. something she's like oh yeah she goes. you know you're you're a photographer. you're a reporter. Uh I got to be. careful what I say around you and I'm. like no you don't and it took me a while. to get over that hump of building that. trust up with her. And I saw things a lot of crazy stuff I. witnessed stuff in the house that just.

and and I also was privy to things that. weren't like as crazy but things that. I'm sure any magazine would print if I. wanted to talk about it. >> Right. >> and I and I felt like I would it was a. test I was having to pass or something. >> Right. >> And I felt like. >> so on her part because you know she. couldn't trust anybody. >> Sure. >> Everybody was and during that era was. trying to just have a piece of her. >> Well, and she had she had gone. um. um to your point, she had gone like to. hospitals and people had called and said.

she's in the hospital and then her. medical chart was released and then you. know, or she had, you know, stalker. ex-boyfriends who came to the her house. with a knife and was going to So, she. had a lot of just crazy stuff happen. Um. She also had a file folder in her house. from different people that mailed crazy. stuff and then she'd give it to security. and they would have to vet it. So, I look she was extremely. um. I say paranoid, but also like she Some. some rightfully so and some a little bit. because of her situation made her a.

little bit more extreme, you know, on. the side of paranoia or or alert, I. should say, you know, maybe both. >> Yeah. In those moments that you guys. were having those private conversations, what do you What is something that you. could tell the world it was the biggest. misunderstanding about her? Because. you've actually got to spend one-on-one. time with her alone. >> I I I think that. um. that in in many ways that she was kind. of misunderstood, you know, about um so.

many things in her life because she. projected this persona of um. of Anna Nicole. And. even though I called her Anna Nicole, I. never called her any other name, you know, other than Anna Nicole. Um Her legal name was Vicki. And so, I. felt like I was getting to know Vicki, but it was, you know, it was Anna that. was when she went out, you know, and as. soon as the light came on, as soon as.

that last, you know, drop of lipstick. went on, it was it was, you know, it was almost like she it was a. different person, you know. It was it was wild, but um. >> Well, her idol, Marilyn Monroe, was the. same way. And I think a lot of women. that grow up idolizing Marilyn, you. know, you learn how to turn it on. >> And I I think when she what part of what. um. Anna her. in in the way that she was. misunderstood, I think her story is a. survival story. You know, she was she.

was always in survival mode. And I think. that what she did with. the time she was here on Earth. is that um. she. she was a she dreamed big. You know, she lived, you know, fast and. and and hard in so many ways and and but. at the same time um. she built this. um wall around herself and her outlet. was to.

perform. for these people, for everybody. And she. told me once, she said, "I gave myself. to Hollywood." So, she really believed. that you know, they had a lease on her. life and that basically that. um that's why she signed every. autograph. That's why she did what she. did. But, I think that this. um. you know, she was renamed Anna Nicole by. the founder of Guess after she was in. Playboy. >> Right. >> So, that name for her was another outlet to. be somebody totally different.

>> Like an alter ego. >> It was and I think that she went back um. and she um. was able to. feel safe in that moment and get the. things that she didn't get. She had a. really fractured um. childhood a a family relationship with. all of her you know, I won't say all but. a lot of her family. Her mom. a totally another crazy, you know, situation. >> Which I would like to touch base on. especially when we start talking about. the um You Don't Know Me documentary on. Netflix. Um that is an unauthorized.

>> Yeah. >> documentary that you actually turned. down. >> Yes. >> And why did you turn that down? >> Well, the thing about it is uh with that. at the time listen, I have if I had a. dollar for every time somebody called me. and said they're going to do show about. Anna Nicole and will you participate, you know, like you know, there would be. no worries you know, in life but but the. problem is is that I had set back and. watched, you know, time after time.

people. kind of do the same show over. >> Right. >> Same cast of characters, you know, they. go back through talk show transcripts of. that time when Anna passed and that was. the time when like a lot of different. vultures came out and they were. rewriting history. People's checks that. dried up they went out and they'd say. this or that. One day they'd say one. thing you'd be the greatest person the. next day you know, you'd be the worst. person or you know, whatever and the. stories kept changing and evolving and. nobody was like checking anything and. vetting it. >> Nobody was doing real journalism.

>> No and so what to me was it it got a. little bit um. disenchanting to kind of see like the. end result of these things. So when that was presented to me I said. um. >> And you said that it was repetitive. people aren't vetting stories. >> Yeah no nobody was really you know, checking into anything like you know, in. a lot of these past projects and I got. tired of seeing the same people. and um. >> Can we talk about some of the characters. that were in here?

You know, at the end they they do bring up her mom. and they do say cuz you were just. touching base on her mom so I kind of. want to rope that in. Her mom says something in this. documentary where she pretty much is. shooting down everything that Anna has. ever said about her and saying that Anna. said well, mom it's Hollywood. This is. my life. >> Yeah. >> When you talked to Anna about her. relationship, what was her with her. mother? What was her side of things that. she told you? >> Well, that was one of the things that.

was a lot of the times in early on in. the relationship when I went to her. house, you know, that was off limits. that you didn't talk she's like no no. no, I don't want to talk about it.". >> Mhm. >> I don't want to talk about it. But, it. got to the point where when trust was. built up and she started, you know, talking that you know, different things. and disclosing things, um. she would tell me like some really crazy. stories about her childhood and and. having to deal with her mom and things. and. they were so crazy that I was like, you. know, are these real stories or. whatever? But, I would see.

like the fear in her eyes and like the. the emotions that these just telling the. stories would invoke, you know, in her. And so, I. I didn't ever really push it too far on. that, but she when she brought it up, I. would definitely, you know, listen and. talk. But, the stories about um. her mom, the fact that here's the thing. with the Netflix to back up. So, the. problem with the Netflix show was after, you know, um. seeing a bunch of and being disappointed. in in a lot of the different projects. and stuff, they.

were. um. they came to me at a time when I was. helping my mom through chemo and. radiation. >> Mhm. >> And they started coming on really strong. and pitching saying, "Hey, we'd like for. you to do this. We'd like for you to do. that." and stuff. And I said, "Well, you. know what? Right now, it's not really a. great time for me, but I'll tell you. what I'm going to do for you." I said, "I will tell you in a list, if you want. to write down names or whatever, of who. the good people are to talk to and who. the bad people and who who who really. didn't play a part in her life, who's. been on these other things." And that's.

why I'm leaning towards not doing this. And they were like, "Oh, oh, well, you. know." And they got on the phone in a. Zoom call with this director and and. they were giving me the pitch that this. was going to be a female director who. would totally give Anna a totally. different look about one of the most. misunderstood iconic women in in pop. culture history. And I was like, "Well, now you got my attention, you. know." But, I'm still dealing with this. personal thing with my mom. And so, I. said I I just don't know if this is. going to fit right now. And then it was. kind of like, um well, we can help you.

with your mom's cancer. We can help you. or one of our producers or whatever's. connected to a doctor's and stuff and. they are big cancer specials. And I was. more worried about my mom at the time so. I was like, "Oh my god, there's hope for. my mom, you know?" As I'm pushing her. wheelchair, you know, through, you know, radiation stuff and I'm like, and she. ultimately passed away after this but. like during this like my focus was laser. on her. And I was really juggling, you. know, still being a dad and and taking. Daniel into school and all these things. and you different things that I was. doing for her and trying to keep.

everything normal there. So it was it. was a a combination of things of timing, um the right people and it just that it. just didn't work out. So then they. started saying, "How much would it cost. for us to get you to do this?" I They. knew I had a ton of archives that no. one's ever seen. >> Right. >> I had like all of Anna's journals that I. discovered. I even discovered more. recently and it's like they were like, "Wow, wow." And I had like video tapes, audio tapes. and like things that no one has ever. heard or seen that would totally show a. complete like legacy piece which was.

what they were talking about. >> Right. >> So when I actually said no and they were. playing higher and lower what would it. take for you to do this? And let me just. be honest like the those things belong. to Daniel Lynn. So if somebody wants to. use those things, I'm not letting them. use them without giving her something. for them. >> Absolutely. >> Because those are her things. >> And rightfully so. >> And so why does anybody get to use and. and think they could do that for. nothing? So but I didn't really get into. negotiations with them. They said, "Okay, we're going to go back to. Netflix. We're going to do this. We're. going to do this and we're going to come. back to you." And I was like, "Okay.". And I never called them heard back from.

them or anything. >> Wow. >> I think there was like a couple texts. about, you know, um they came back to me and said, um. it was no longer like would you. participate? It's um this director got. on the phone she's like, "Hello, love. It's, you know, so-and-so. I'm want to. come over and throw us a spot of tea.". And you know, like it was like real. chummy and stuff. And they were nice at. first and stuff but as I started pushing. back and say I just don't think this is. to happen." It was weird. I started. seeing um on um.

Facebook, social media, different. things, a couple people that I had on the no. list had posted the fact that they were. going to be on the show. One person I didn't have on any list cuz. I didn't really even know Anna that that. that well, you know. I heard the name. but or whatever. Um. and I went back to the producers and. said, "This is the reason why I'm not. doing your show. This is a clear, you. know, here's the receipts, you know, these people are saying you're doing. it." So, they were like, "Well, oh no, this person could talk about this and. this person could talk about that.". Well, the person I said that person.

doesn't know Anna. They're like, "Well, that person could speak to her reality. show because they were on one episode.". And I was like, "Okay, is that where. we're going with a legacy piece, you. know?". >> a hit piece. That's not a legacy piece. >> So, I just I I sat back and I was like, "Okay, you know, and I went back into. daily life with my mom and everything. I'm doing, you know, daily." And I was. like, "All right.". So, um. I guess over time back and forth there. were a couple communications. I got a. call from an auction company, which we. did an early auction of a few overflow.

things of Anna's, and um did some stuff. with charity, and Anna actually had. creditors, you know, when she passed. away. So, the court said, "Some of the. stuff, why don't you just get rid of and. sell it?" So, we gave them some things. that were like, you know, the Bobby. Trendy couches from the reality show. and, you know, some things. And a lot of. fans got a lot of cool things. And it. was kind of it served, you know, a few. purposes. But, um. somebody in the production went to the. auction company was asking for how much. was made off the auction, and it turned. into like they were investigating me.

And I was like, "What the you know, like. I didn't make anything, you know, like". >> Yeah. >> And literally like I, you know, uh was. just. >> felt gross, right? >> Yeah, and it really felt gross cuz I. remember I you like I I spent like. $60,000 on a headstone for Anna in the. Bahamas. You know, and I think you said. you went to Yeah. Like I had that design. in my hometown of Louisville. We flew it. on FedEx over to the Bahamas, had a. crane had to lift it off of the truck. down and you know, place it in place. And um you know, when Anna passed away, her house was in um.

her mortgage was behind. You know, we'll. get to like the bomb stuff later, but. like. >> Yeah, we'll get to all that. >> They they turned their back on stuff. And so like I walked into like a lot of. stuff that like I had to pay for. So to. hear someone say like, you know, what is. this or what is that? So they didn't. really come out and accuse me of. anything, but I could was hearing from a. lot of different people. Then the show. actually hit a bump. Um that show was announced at one point. and then Pam Anderson's documentary was. announced way after that. >> Yeah. >> Well, and like, you know, fast forward. Pam Anderson's show aired even though it.

was announced way after Anna's show. And. I was hearing from people that they were. having trouble getting people close to. Anna to participate. >> Right. >> So it was kind of like, you know, and so. you know, I didn't think anything else. of it. I got a couple requests from that. same director if I would license them. photos of Anna. and Daniel and the hospital that were. circulated before in the press. And I. said, "If you can guarantee me that this. is the show that you said it was going. to be when you pitched this to me,

um then I. I'll think about it. Yeah. Let me know. What do you want?". >> Yeah. >> She and I said she goes, "Um all right, love. Have a think on it. I'll get back with you." and hung up. I. knew then that this show was not going. to be the show that they had told me. that the show was going to be. So I. mean, with all that being said, I um. I sat back and then. it's they started running promos for it. And I saw some of those people that I. said, "This person shouldn't be this. person." Not all of them, but a most.

most a lot of them there shouldn't have. been. Like they had the sister of. Howard, the attorney. >> That was going to be my next question is. like, you know, how. there's so much that we still have to. unpack, but you know, how are they going. to have his sister like did he authorize. that for her to go on there? >> I mean you know I uh. I. I don't think so. He didn't really know. that she was going to be on there. I. think you don't have to I guess because. it's a documentary people are free to do. whatever and say whatever I guess. But. like the thing is is that.

it was like an uncle that wasn't close a. the person and they didn't tell that. some of these people like the the the. situations behind the the scenes with. these people. Like this person was a. strange and hadn't seen her since you. know whatever. This person you know met. her a couple times. It was just kind of. like people were given they were. elevated. >> Yeah. >> And I when I I I started seeing all that. come out I was like wow. And then I. remember um. the show came out and I didn't really. want my daughter to see it and I was. like um.

because when I saw some of the people uh. I was like okay it's going to get. probably get ugly you know you know on. here. And I was like I remember sitting. back and I watched it one night when she. went to bed and um. I I. I was like. I I was I pretty much frozen. I was like. wow when it got to different parts. >> Right. >> Um. you know and it was a the show was kind. of a slow burn so I was like sitting. there going. okay okay. And I in my mind I'm thinking.

you know selfishly I'm like okay they're. going to get to me next. They're kind of. you know I'm coming you know like it's. going chronologically here and so it's. something's coming. But like the show. the problem that I had with the show was. for two things. One is Anna's fans reach. out to me all the time and there's tons. of them all over the place. >> So for sure. >> And and they still love her and they. hold her in high regards. And people. know that she wasn't perfect and they. they. >> That's why people love her though. >> Yeah and I think when people were um. literally they're just waiting for a new. photo that no one's ever seen. They all. fight over it on Instagram and they.

start water marking stamp and that's. mine that's mine you know. And so like. when this came out people were like oh. my god there's this new Anna Nicole. thing you this is going to be crazy and. and um. and they everybody had high hopes for. it, but the problem was. um. the two main problems that I had with. the show was that they they took the the. um. they they used. the thought that. um there was a girl who danced with Anna. in a in a club. >> Missy, right? Was that her name? Yeah,

that was going to be my next question is. she said that she was Anna's assistant, that she was in a sexual relationship. with her. >> And here's the thing that I've learned. because I you know that I'm sure we'll. get to later, but like I don't want to. ever say. that Anna didn't have a relationship. with someone that predated me cuz unless. she told me otherwise or I have some. kind of written proof or something in. her archives. Um and there's a lot, you know, like in. her journals and stuff, but I I don't. want to take that part away from that.

girl that said that. >> Right. The problem that I had with what. that girl said and that what the show. was totally wrapped around and framed. around was that Anna. >> hijacked her life. >> Right. >> And took every story that was about this. girl, the most, you know, crazy nasty. tawdry things that you could think of. >> childhood. She said that Anna was. stealing her childhood story, which I. thought was really kind of crazy to say. about somebody. >> Yeah, and I and honestly like. um. I I I I was like, what? First off, I'm.

like, who's this girl? Cuz I've never. heard Anna even. you know, she never mentioned her. Not. that she would mention everybody from. her past, but. >> Right. >> I I know a lot of the people, you know, from her past and and I was like, okay, uh this is weird, you know, and I was. watching as this whole show was framed. around you know, Anna supposedly. hijacked this girl's life and I'm like, it kind of made it sound like kind of. like single white female movie, you. know? >> Right. >> And I'm like. >> it was a bunch of people who were in. love with her and obsessed with her, even her own family members.

>> Well, I mean I mean that it's. interesting that you say that. I mean I. just because I'm like, why do are these. people getting a platform. >> Right. >> for this show? >> Mhm. >> And. >> The brother doesn't even seem like he. knew anything about her. >> Who's that? >> Her brother. >> Yeah, so like literally I think you know. I I. I I don't want to like. What I'll say to this cuz you know again. >> Well, I I don't want to discredit but I. also want to be sensitive because I know. how it feels to be in the shoes of. saying that you weren't in a. relationship with you know Anna or you. didn't do this. So, I want to be.

sensitive to those people. >> I understand. >> But I will say to you that based on. everything that we have in in Anna's. archives it paints a totally different. picture from what every one of these. people are saying. >> Right. >> And and this and this predates this girl. and it postdates this girl. >> Wow. >> So, if Anna was you know hijacking a. story how can she hijack the story that. she wrote years before she met you? >> Yeah. >> I have her stuff way back when she's. still Vicky. I have her school stuff. when she was a kid. >> Wow. >> talking about her biggest dreams. I have. all kinds of things that like if I were.

to have done the show with Netflix that. >> Um. >> that it would have been a totally. different show. Not because I would have. tried to like um you know manage it or. whatever. >> Right, but her she's written her own. story. >> It it she had they had the opportunity. for her to tell her story herself. >> Exactly. >> long after she passed and it would have. it was such a unique story because. whether it's Marilyn Monroe or Michael. Jackson all this stuff and all those. people left things behind. But the. things that Anna left behind because one.

she was a hoarder. >> Mhm. >> and she kept every single thing. I mean. I have. >> If you watched the reality show you knew. she was a hoarder. >> Yeah. And I I mean and and um. it's been my job to kind of be the. curator of that stuff for my daughter. all these years and so basically I I. I've gone through it and I'm still. finding stuff. I'll open up like a old. purse you know, Dannielynn might say dad. that's not in style really but I you. know, I you know, I don't want to offend. you know, mom but. >> sweet. >> You know, and I'm like honey, it's. whatever you want of this stuff you.

know, like so basically like of that. stuff. >> Save it though because those vintage. purses will come in She'll trust me. She'll want them later on in life. >> Well, it's weird because 5 years ago I. asked her questions about storage and it. was like. where's Daniel's Pokémon cards? Or, you. know, like 10 years ago, you know, that's what she wanted, like the video. games. And cuz his stuff's there, too, you. know. >> Yeah. >> And um. >> And we'll talk about how you inherited. all of that stuff once we get to, you. know, >> But anyways, going back like to the Netflix and and. and that um. the the promotion of it it it promised.

like these bombshell revelations. One of. them was the girl Missy who said that. basically, you know, Anna hijacked my. life. The And then they said and then in. the final fourth, you know, quarter of the show, we're going to have. the bombshell of them all that tells why. Anna was the way she was. And that was a. video of Anna's mom. And the video, like you said, it was. like basically Anna saying that she made. everything up. Um and that good stories. don't sell as well as bad stories.

>> Right. >> Well, they left out a few things, you. know, in from that. you know, discussion in the in the tapes. and the promos of that. For starters, that video from her mom, her mom had long passed since after. that. >> Mhm. >> Um her mom filmed that video in. retaliation to Anna. being upset that after Anna's son died, her mom came down to the Bahamas and did. a bunch of photo ops in the Bahamas. >> I remember that. >> And it made Anna furious. In fact,

there's a whole. there was a whole um Entertainment. Tonight video of that have now been. labeled the Mommy Dearest interviews. that Anna comes out and she just. tears into her mom. >> Right, sorry. Yeah. >> And that's because and she says, "And. you came down here and you laid your fat. ass on my grave." And you know, and. you know, I I I just think that that. wasn't like the the problem between. them. There was long There were long. problems. >> long childhood trauma. >> But when Anna.

when Anna's mom um when An- when. Anna and Daniel passed away. um. Anna. I you know, I wasn't around at the time, but I remember. when Anna would open up about her family. and we had those moments where I felt. like it was safe for her and she felt. like it was safe to talk to me about it. Um she would. long for her mother. >> Aw. >> And she and I actually tried to play. peacemaker and say, "Hey, why don't you. call her?" And she would just start.

shaking, you know, and it wasn't it. wasn't that wasn't on the table. So, I I. would go as far with it as I could. >> Mhm. >> Because for me like I come in from the. south and like we you know, we get we. get-togethers, you know, everybody gets. together on you know, holidays, things. And Anna I felt like that was a part of. her that was missing when I met her. >> Mhm. >> That it was just like she was kind of on. autopilot. >> Yeah, she was trying to create her own. family around her. >> She was collecting. Like I felt like I. was a part of a collection. >> Mhm. >> You know, like she pulled me into like.

you're going to be this and you're going. you know, like she had a a role in her. mind that everybody was. >> So, in the documentary they actually say. that Anna had sought out and this is. going to tie back into you guys'. relationship. Um that she had was. seeking a ba- a father. She wanted to. get pregnant. >> Yeah. >> When. you guys, you know, are having these. conversations and you guys are getting. to know each other and we're on this. journey, did you guys talk about having. a baby together? >> Oh, sure. Sure. So,

um. obviously like you know, as things. became intimate like you know, like. we're we're I'm just literally in her. room every day basically, you know, and. we're literally a couple, but I can't. tell anybody. You know, and and and. um you know, and still having the. tensions from the outside, you know, outside the room really, you know? >> Mhm. >> It. um um. basically, you know, um. we we talked about having kids. Anna. thought it was um.

Well, one of the first nights I was with. her, she said to me, "I I think that you were sent here by my. husband as an angel to protect me.". >> Mhm. >> And I don't know if it was the biggest. pickup line in the world, you know, uh or what. But then she was. reduced to tears. And it was a time when. like, you know, um. you know, I'm pretty you know, modest. for like it was a time when like things. could have like heated up in the.

bedroom, but it was like that stopped. that moment because she's crying about. her husband. >> Right. >> So, I'm like it was one of those things. that I had to deal with. Like, you know, like. you know, and and um. you know, it's like you're rolling. around in the bed and you turn this way, you know, like woo, you know, and like. you know, you you you look up and. there's a pop art painting of J. Howard. Marshall. When you turn over the other. way, you know, put your arm around her, you. >> That'll get anybody's mind quiver. quivering. >> And like you turn around put your arm. around her the other way and you're. knocking off like a a picture of J.

Howard Marshall in a wheelchair, you. know, it's like that's got like, you. know, this whole thing on her like a um. this tribute thing on her her. nightstand. So, >> think she genuinely loved him like. romantically or as a girl who was in the. industry myself, I had love for men that. took me out of terrible situations and. like you have a love and a respect for. them that is never replaceable and it's. almost like a I don't want to it's kind. of weird, but it's almost like a. father's love that you never got. Do you. think that's how it was for her and uh.

Mr. Marshall? >> I you honestly, there's so much, you. know, like. um. that she said privately that I've got. we're working on some things that are. coming up that like are going to come. out of that, but I will say to this in. in general like basically that um. she. from what I thought about her. relationship with him is that. um and I'm speaking about this from like. my perspective.

>> Correct. >> I felt like that. I was held to that standard of J. Howard. Marshall. >> Aw. >> And I felt like that um. in some ways not not the ways that you. might think you know or maybe so but. like she felt like that. he was a saint. >> Mhm. >> And he got her like you said out of a. situation. >> Mhm. >> So it wasn't like oh my god I was. lusting over this you know 90-year-old. man. It was like he helped me out of a. way. >> Like I don't know that like in and and.

you like I feel like you can relate to. this in so many ways because you know. like when you um like you said your. experiences and things that you've dealt. with but I think she was just trying to. survive. >> Mhm. >> And this guy comes along and can help. you get out of all this stuff. >> her. >> You don't have to take your clothes off. You don't have to talk to these people. You don't have to do you know crazy. dances you know and all this stuff. And. you know you're literally at um you know. Harry Winston's buying jewelry and all.

this other stuff and this is a totally. different thing for her and she was. getting attention but she also felt like. I will say this that she was serving a. purpose for him because he had lost a. previous wife that died and. >> Right. >> and she was bringing him happiness. It. wasn't an even trade. >> And I I I think that it was um. a mutual thing. I think it was it's one. of the things that's kind of um she got. a lot of slack for every night talk. shows and monologues for late night. shows. >> I mean that's people do that to me and.

my husband you know like I have been. called a gold digger my whole life. I. feel like that is what. it's like a tale as old as time and it's. like it gives people something to talk. about and it's like a subject that. everybody is like interested in for some. reason. >> Yeah. >> And that doesn't necessarily mean that's. how she was or who she was. >> Well, had I not seen like listen, I had. heard the rumors beforehand. In fact, I. mean this is like a. I I told Anna this and she smacked us. but. some friends we were actually.

Jay I was Jay Howard Marshall in a. wheelchair for Halloween and some girl. was Anna Nicole like we made fun of it. >> Right. >> She's like, how dare you and but she. thought it was funny later and stuff. It. was a joke like because of the age. difference, you know? >> I mean people are still doing that. Halloween costume. >> and and I mean some singers are doing. it. There was an album cover, you know, and recently Danny Lenz showed me that. and and um. um. and so basically like it had a night. scene. behind those doors in that room. >> Yeah. >> You know, like and I say that room in a. way because it represented like.

um. it was kind of like her's place within. her. >> Yeah. >> Her safe space. >> And. um I mean she never hardly used the. other parts of the house. It was like. that's where the that's where it was. I. mean like I was, you know, I and I I. winded up dating her for like 2 years. >> Mhm. >> So that was where our time was spent. >> I think a lot of people don't even know. that you guys were together for 2 years. >> Well, and the reason is because. um. the the problem with that is is. when um.

when when Anna always did interviews and. you can find dozens of them out there. Um her big stick was she was this. available goddess. that people desired to be with. And so she when she went out on a red. carpet. that was what she projected. >> Mhm. >> Like you would want to be with this. woman, you know, if you could be with. this woman. That was part of her image. So she would like if she was on a. an interview I mean I.

there's tons of them out there. I. haven't had. years. I haven't like, you You I oh my. god, no guys asked me out. I've no, you. know, I don't no one goes on a date, you. know, all that stuff. That was part of. her thing. >> Yeah. >> She said it just because she wanted to. appear to be available. >> Right. >> And and for you to think that you could. have a chance with Anna Nicole. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> And so um. but she also did not want uh because she. had some weird situations and she had. mistrust issues with people in a. previous uh relationship and then in.

like some stalker, he got a lot of press. off of it. Sh um. I will say this and it took me a while. to um unravel this in my mind. that she did not want to share the. spotlight that she was getting and that. attention she was getting with anybody. else. >> Mhm. >> Because that was where she felt loved. >> Aw. >> And you're taking a piece of that love. away when you take a piece of whatever. away. >> Right. >> So that you know, that um. you know, that's where I think that you. know, she was the way she was and that.

what what what motivated that. But I. might have got off track with what you. asked me. >> No, you're good. So you guys being. together for two years, you were around. enough to start figuring out characters. in her life. >> Yeah. >> So I. kind of have a bad taste in my mouth. about Howard K. Stern and it's only. because I met Anna. Um I met her at the. Palms. >> Yep, I met her at the Palms um in Vegas. and I was walking and she grabbed me and. she's like, "Oh my god, you're so.

beautiful." And like she asked me for. >> Uh-huh. >> And. and I was like, "Yeah, I have. of course.". >> You're so pretty by the way. >> We're instantly besties, you know? And I. get Howard trying to protect her, but he. was just his energy was so dark and so. evil and he literally put his arm out in. between us cuz we were like this close. together. Put his arm out in between us. and pushed me and was like, "Anna, no.". And like pushed me out of the way and. like to the point where she was like, "I'm so sorry." Like she was apologizing.

for him. >> I mean, I've seen that, you know, I've. seen him do that. um to different people in different. events. But just as a. a question. to you on that, um was it do you think. it was because she you say she asked you. for medicine or was it because he didn't. want you near her? >> Now that I'm out of it, it's probably. because she was asking for Xanax. Um and. I mean, you don't want anybody just. giving anybody pills. But also, I think. it came from a a place of I don't know. I just.

really I'm like you. I can read people. And I mean, in the first 5 minutes of. being in their, you know, energy. And to. me, he seemed like he was in love with. her. And it was extremely controlling. And I don't know. She just seemed like a. little kid who was getting literally. carried away by her shoulders. And she's. looking back at me like, "I'm so sorry.". You know? >> I've seen that look a million times. Like, yeah, yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, I mean, here's the thing I'll say. about this. Um obviously, when I first came to the.

house, there was, you know, I would, you. know, I when I I would come to the. kitchen, hang out, you know, like it was. like the common I I kind of feel like it. was. I don't want people to like run with. this, but like it kind of felt a little. cult-like, you know? Like we were in. like some kind of cult, >> Like the Anna Nicole love love boat. >> Yeah, I mean, like I was resistant to I. didn't want to be an entourage member or. whatever. So I maintained independence. I tried to as much as I could. I I still. worked and did my own thing. I I wasn't.

asking her for money, you know, I would. that that kind of stuff. But I I will. say that, you know, um you know, the people in the house, they were having their bills paid. But. at the same time, the people in the. house were working for. And I I will say. this, I had my own issues with Howard as. far as like him stepping into. um the relationship territory between. myself and Anna. But at the same time, on the flip side of things, I watched. him like work tirelessly, you know, and. negotiate all of her contracts and not. take a fee. You know, an agent would. take, you know, 10% or whatever, a. manager would take this. Nothing was.

taken out of it. Everything went to her. >> Yeah. >> You know, and it was fiercely negotiated. for her benefit. Like, you know, it was. and I but I would also see, you know, um. him spend time with Anna's son, Daniel, kind of a father figure. >> Right. >> You know, and take him out to learn to. drive and do things like that or take. him out to a restaurant when Anna was. just so exhausted that she didn't get. out of bed for days, you know? >> Mhm. >> So, I saw like both sides of it and the. side that I saw that didn't bother me. was the side of where he's helping. Daniel and this stuff. The side that. bothered me was when he got involved in. our relationship.

>> Mhm. >> And there there came became petty stuff. like um you know, Anna I was telling you. she was painting, I was painting. Um you. know, Anna, Howard, whose whose painting. is better? Well, Anna, yours is better, you know, and I'm like, so it was like. kind of like that kind of stuff, you. know, like, okay, let's get Kim in the. room. Kim, whose painting's better? I'm. like, it was like a round two, you know, and you go and it was like just like. some childish stuff going on. I look. back and I was like, you know, Anna was. in her 30s, I was in my younger 30s. I'm. 5 years I was 5 years younger than Anna, so I was, you know, I I want to say I. was like 30 maybe when I was there right.

at 30. And um and basically, we were all. operating, even myself included, a. little bit the maturity level wasn't to. where people in their 30s, you know? >> And I I feel like Anna liked to. triangulate people. >> Yeah. >> That was her thing. >> Well, and you know, like the thing about. like um. you know, what 30-something year old woman puts a. trampoline in her house and tells you to. jump off the rails and it was almost. like we were um. you know, you hear about celebrities who. didn't have a childhood like Michael.

Jackson these people and they tried to. recreate stuff. So, it was almost like. we were kind of going along with the. gag. Like, oh my god, today we're going. to jump on a trampoline, you know, you. know, tomorrow we're going to be, you. know, paint faces and paint So, it was. like it was like activity time, you. know? >> Yeah. >> And um and between that, you know, obviously we had our own personal time. But in the house when that was happening. like Howard slept on the couch below. which we auctioned. Thank god we got rid. of it. But um. but our Anna's room was right above. that. You know, and everybody kind of.

had a room and stuff. And so he really. didn't have room, but he would stay. around and stuff. And it was like a. little bit uneasy for me because like. he'd bring the dogs in. The dogs want to. see you again. I'm like, okay, you know, the you know, and or here's what we're doing today and. it and some of it was necessary, but. some of it I think was kind of like. to get in there to figure out what we. were doing and stuff. And but in his. defense and it took me a while to kind. of like. I don't want to say mature up, but also. to kind of reflect on it. His he was the cleanup man for a lot of.

the past stuff. >> Right. >> For our relationship. So I don't want to. make excuses for him because in the. moment it hurt what he was doing to me. It hurt like my feelings and hurt like, you know, this the relationship and it. it suffered because of it. But on the. flip side of things, if you look at from. his perspective where, you know, could he sit back and watch this person. take advantage of Anna if he thought or. whatever? I don't know. I mean, maybe. I'm giving him too much credit. I don't. know what somebody else might say. I I. try to see everything from both sides, but I I I do know that it became a.

difficult to just exist in the. relationship with her and it wasn't just. him. It was literally like when people. would come over there was like I mean, there's like um. um. but going back to the Netflix show, there's two of these people that that uh. dressmakers that came out and took. swipes at me and said Anna hated me. They were never in the house one time. with us. >> Right. >> Like one of them came and I think one of. them put a a tape measure around her and. I saw them one time and they never came. back or whatever. >> Right. >> You know, but now we're her best friends. and and we're her this and we're her.

that and, you know, and and whatever. And um. it. in that show, you know, those people, you know, Howard aside, those people. took swipes at me and was like you said. and said that I was I want to go back to. that just if I can real quick. >> Of course. >> Just the she was looking for a person to. have a baby with. >> Mhm. >> Well, that was partly born out of like I. said that she would say she's not dating. anybody. So, there was a mystery who. she's dating. >> Right. >> So, when she actually got pregnant and. not to jump ahead of what you're you.

know my aspect but like. it created a mystery of well, who the. hell's the father cuz she said she ain't. dating anybody. >> Right. >> So, you know, that was a whole thing where. um. the tension started to build because and. uh her show it ended she still was the. the diet pill spokesperson. She we knew. she was pregnant. She came to me and. told me she was pregnant. I was actually. getting ready to just close up shop and. say I'm done because I couldn't deal. with a lot of the stuff. We actually. >> So, yeah, let's not gloss over that. Um.

so, when she found out she was pregnant, how did she tell you and where were you. guys at in your relationship? >> Well, we we had previously had a. miscarriage. >> Mhm. >> Um and and she had um. a difficulty with um I didn't think she. was able to get pregnant to be honest. Not that I'm like not that we were. trying not to or really were we weren't. >> hard for her to get pregnant. >> Well, and we really weren't sitting down. going oh my god today at first. We. weren't saying oh my god today we're. going to let's have a you know, we. weren't really it was just like we were.

just. being ourselves and you know, you know, it's like whatever. And um. I was convinced. after hearing so many stories from her. that like she had like some. um I want I don't want to say it wrong. the the. >> endometriosis. >> No, the the type of pregnancy that um. ectopic. >> Oh, ectopic pregnancy. >> Pregnancy, yeah. So, she had something. like that in the past and stuff. She had. difficulty with that. And so, like when. she did talk about wanting to have a. baby, she had an ovulation meter by the. bed.

>> Mhm. >> And she was like I mean I literally. would be sitting there in the bed oh my. god it's time it's time it's time. And. it's like it's like clothes start flying. like like you know, it's like to it's. like she really she was laser focused on. wanting to have a baby. But what she did. with me was she said, um. after saying she thought I was sent. as an angel to help her, she then she. thought because of Daniel's birthday. being the same as mine. that there was just too many signs that. this was something that was meant to be. >> Mhm.

>> And then she went a step further and. said, "You know what? You actually kind of look like Daniel. And I think that, you know, if we had a. kid together. >> Mhm. >> we. we'd have some kids that look like, you. know, Daniel and you know. And she. always wanted a a girl. I mean, years. and years of collecting like baby girl. clothes. >> Yeah. >> Even dressed Daniel up as a girl when. she could because, you know, because she. wanted a girl so bad, you know. >> Poor Daniel. What was your relationship. like with Daniel? >> You know, I honestly I I.

I uh. I feel bad because I think in all of. this, you know, after Daniel passed away. and his his mom and the paternity stuff. that he gets forgotten, you know, in so. many ways. He was a really, really, really good kid. Um. and I think that um. sh- super shy, you know, if you ever. watch the show and you know, and then. finally they took him off the show. And. then he he did home school and stuff and. there was some kind of like, you know, tension whether he should be on the show. or not. He didn't want to. And then, you.

know, as he got older and when I came. into the picture, he was kind of warming. up to like even doing some modeling and. some things like that. Um. and kind of coming out of his shell a. little bit. But, he was like super quiet. to himself. Um but, I would go down. because he was the only person in the. house that I could talk to who would. talk to me at some points because we got. to a point in the house that when you. went to the kitchen. and you got something to eat you were. not supposed to talk to the person you. saw in the hallway.

It's like, don't talk to her. You don't. talk to him. >> Why? >> Because she was telling people in the. house different stuff. >> Okay, I got it. >> didn't want anybody to compare notes to. what she was telling them. >> Wow. >> So. >> Wow, what a crazy way to live. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I. >> And everybody has to abide by it because. she's the breadwinner. >> Well, they did the the people the. employees had to. >> Right. That's what I mean. Yes. >> Maybe her son. But like she would. actually get to the point where. sometimes like she would come to me and.

I would listen to her talk to employees. in the house and she'd say, "You're back. talking me." And then, you know, fast. forward to us and you know, you know, in. the bedroom or wherever and so she's. like, "And you're back talking me." I'm. like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I. am not your employee.". >> Yeah. >> don't put me in that pocket. When you do. that, then this goes to a different. level. And so I stood my ground for that. and so she was like, "Oh, shit." You. know, but it was kind of like a little. bit of respect I got from doing that. But it took me to say, "Hey, I don't I'm. not You're not paying my bills. You're.

not this. I don't want your money." You. know, I don't you know, like literally I. didn't I didn't ask her for anything. Like, you know, she bought me this necklace I'm wearing, you know, like literally that's the only. thing that other than like holiday stuff. or whatever. And you know, I've I've. never I don't take it off. I think I. took it off once I went into a MRI. machine. You know, >> Tyler Henry. Is that the one that you're. wearing on Tyler Henry? Yep. >> And I don't I don't take it off. But I. Listen, the thing is is that um. with Howard, with all of that, with him,

you know, I had my problems with him. that you know, um. he had a job to do. I didn't really fit. in that whole thing. The irony of it is. is that he was one of the ones that. actually brought me into the fold. Why. don't you come and take pictures and. stuff? So I mean, he's probably kicking. himself when he saw where I was versus. where he might want to be. >> Were they ever intimate? >> No. Never to my knowledge. In fact, when. I talked to Anna, she's like, "That's. gross. That's this. That's that." You. know, and then. >> But I mean, you can't really trust what. Anna says because she's telling the. world she's doesn't doesn't a boyfriend.

>> That's true. So but the thing that I. would think what I would say to that was. is that the only thing that I can attest. to is that like there was in no. circumstances was like she getting sex. from me and going downstairs on the. couch and getting sex from him or going. >> but I mean even before you or like after. you. >> don't know. I mean I can tell you that. we had. you know, so many private conversations. about that that. um. she that that she. >> wavered. >> She would never she would never say. anything but we're just he's like my. brother or he's like my friend. He's.

like yeah. You know, and I'm like okay. I mean I didn't have any reason to think. that they would have. So, I didn't. really go further with it. it until later. >> Right, after the baby was born. >> Um. >> So, take me on that journey of her. telling you that she's pregnant and. where you guys are at and then you. >> No, you're it all ties in together, I. promise. >> and the thing is is like like I said I'm. like. >> There's so much lore, it's hard. You. know, you're going to have to go down. different avenues just to tie it in. together. >> And like I said I'm ADD so I'm like go. back and then I'm like oh [ __ ]. >> It's all making sense, I promise.

It may not feel like it, but it is. >> Um. So, honestly like at a time when um. we had just kind of got off got over the. miscarriages several months prior to. that and then. there were some rough patches we hit and. and um. and I just was like I'm I got to go. I I. I I got to go home. I wasn't. >> the rough patches? >> Well, it was like. um. you know, I mean like she expected so much out of.

me. that I I was. I was drained honestly. Like I was it. was it it was and I I honestly like like. I said I'm hyper. I like I have things. I've got to get done. I I I literally. would go we would go to an event and we. would um say New Year's Eve in Vegas. >> Mhm. >> And like I was like okay, that was fun. the next day, but she needs to sleep for. 2 weeks. to watch movies and stay in the bedroom. and do whatever. And um. just to recover from it.

>> Mhm. >> So to me I was like I felt like I was. just sinking into the bed. >> Right. >> like I was And and and and some people. are like, "Well, what's your complaint? You know, it's Anna Nicole." But but I. mean after so much like mentally I was. like I I. I because also it wasn't just that, it. was like I was told like um I I. I had nieces and nephews I was super. close with you know, uh when they were. growing up and I never missed one. holiday party with them or birthday or. whatever. I she There was one time I. wanted to go home for my niece's. birthday and she told me no. And we had.

to get a um. birthday cake. And she. put my niece's uh she sent her assistant. to go get it. Go get a birthday cake. that says happy birthday Amber. And I'm like, "Okay, um". And then her assistant comes, brings it. in. She goes, "Now, go get your camera." And. she says, "Here, you take a picture.". Told her assistant, "Take the picture.". She gets in the bed. She. she's got it like a um a white fluffy. hat. Remember the hats the girls were.

always wearing in the flights, you know? And but. she wanted me to send this picture back. to my niece. But she did I wasn't. supposed to tell anybody that I was. dating her date my family or anybody. So. what she did which was weird was she. puts glasses on. She makes me put glasses on and a. sombrero. So I have a cake, a sombrero, and she's got all these things on. And. I'm holding this cake up that says happy. birthday Amber. And she goes, "Okay, now. it's done. You had a party." I go, "What?" And stat she. she said, "You're not going back home.".

Christmas came up. >> No, you can't go home because she didn't. have anybody. >> Yeah. >> So she felt like I was abandoning her. when I said I need to go just take care. of normal things. >> And she wouldn't go with you because she. didn't want people to know you guys were. dating. >> For some time we got to a point where. she finally got over a little bit over. the hump of that by it was actually out. of no it was a. it was by mistake, actually. >> Mhm. >> Um. we were in a Hooters restaurant in. Burbank. And we had just went shopping for It was.

around Christmas time and uh Anna had. all these people's charity. She You. know, those adopt-a-families on TV you. see and like there were so many families. that were like she was giving things to. and stuff and we were getting gift cards. and stuff to send. And um. we went by Hooters afterwards and she. was like. uh there was nobody in the restaurant at. all. And so they came over waited on us. and stuff and all of the sudden the. paparazzi shows up at the window. And I have a feeling somebody probably. inside called them or whatever because. it was like.

it the where we were there's just really. not a lot of paparazzi in that area. >> Right. >> So. um. the waitress is waiting on us and Anna's. looking out the window at the paparazzi. and I'm telling her look and I had. already taken pictures inside with her. doing like dances with the Hooters girls. and stuff and um. we were just having lunch and stuff and. um. and I was always to take my camera bag. because I always had to look like the. photographer. >> Right. >> So it was like I was playing a role. within my relationship of really being. something that I would actually was. So.

>> Right. >> you know. So. um. I the the paparazzi's outside and the. waitress comes over and she's like um oh. my god, she goes I love your earrings to. Anna and she had these like star. earrings with a star on. She's like they're so so pretty. She. goes oh my gosh and your son is so cute. And she's looking at me. So Anna. immediately. turns her back to the waitress. She looks at me and we both had beers in. our hand and stuff. The paparazzi's.

outside still. We were still dealing. with that. And she takes a swig of her beer and I. and um tears start coming down her face. And she says. um. "You're going to eat five meals and. you're going to lift weights and you're. going to get big and no one's going to. think you're my [ __ ] son and blah. blah blah blah blah and I'm like I. you know I but she'd already told me I. look like her son. You know what I mean? So it was like she. was taking that and going now it was.

being used against me and I was like I. didn't really think we looked anything. like other than like it was cool we had. the same birthday but whatever, you. know. And so. >> Well, I think what happened in that. moment was it. it was a an ego hit because you're her. dude and you know, she's like what are. you trying to say? Like I look old? Like. what's happening? >> Yeah. >> She and she was always sensitive about. she was always sensitive about criticism. about you know her the way she looked. and she was she was used to being picked. apart and she had just kind of you know.

um. transformed herself you know back and. this was like the trim spa era where she. was like you know um. and and she thought all of that for this. to you to say that and then obviously no. nobody wants to. feel like they look old and stuff like. you know women especially like you know. so it's like I I I didn't know what to. do in that moment cuz I was like the. paparazzi's out there tears are. streaming down her face. She's you know crying and. um. I I remember I I didn't want I my my.

instinct was to obviously like to. comfort her and to hug her but I I. remember the paparazzi's there. and I'm like um. so I kind of froze and so she turns and. she takes her arms and puts them around. me and she's still crying and um. and I'm like and I know this sounds. petty cuz like but. from what it was it hurt her feelings it. hurt me to see her hurt but at the same. time. um that particular incident. when we left the Hooters restaurant.

then they started taking pictures of us. leaving. I'm holding her my camera bag I'm. holding one of her dogs bags. and she's trying to compose herself and. she's. flipped the switch again and she's like. she's got her leg wrapped around a pole. and she's leaning back and doing poses. and stuff and she's really she's working. the camera on the way out because that's. she's trying to recover in that moment. And those pictures wound up um. I I think they came out in a magazine. who's Anna Nicole's mystery guy and blah.

blah blah and I was like oh [ __ ] And so. um. she really didn't get that worried about. that. It because. it it didn't I don't want to say it was. like breaking major news. It was it was. in magazines and stuff and it was like. it next you know next week's edition's. coming out next or whatever. >> Right. >> But it to me um. later on that would be a moment that um. would actually come back and be a piece. of evidence that would prove that I had.

a relationship with her after the. paternity stuff hit. >> Wow. >> Because Howard her attorney went out and. said that I didn't date Anna and that I. just had about 15 pictures with her and. that we're not going to respond to every. Tom Dick and Larry that goes out and. says they had a relationship with Anna. and you know and so that was part of the. paternity stuff when news broke about. her getting pregnant and people were. trying to figure out well who's this and. who's that and so. um. but that particular moment in Hooters. was a mistake that actually kind of put.

Anna's foot forward to say. okay that wasn't so bad you know he. didn't he wasn't trying to get the press. and it was my fault. She recognized that. there's nothing really that we could. have done to get out of the moment. um. but she uh. and moving forward you know there was. um other things and other times that. would test whether she was open to me. being seen with her or not and I never. forced that because I was always. respectful of the fact that this was her.

image. >> Yeah. >> And you know and I didn't want to be um. I also felt like I would fail that test. >> Right. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah, yeah. >> Like I felt like I was always somebody. was always waiting for me to [ __ ] up. >> Exactly. >> and and and when and that happened, I. felt like um then it's the it's game. over, you know, and to me it was more. important because I I I was in love with. her at that time. It was we had these. big moments, these things that like I. never experienced miscarriages and. things like that that brought us like it.

was hard, but it brought us closer. We. got over things like all couples did, we. you know, like you know, cheating and. you know, not me, but she cheated on me. and like you but she expected. exclusivity from me and you know, >> Who did she cheat on you with? >> Um you know what? I I. I would like to say it maybe happened. once, but I think, you know, maybe you. know, a couple times, but I think. >> get away from you to cheat? Just like. business trips and stuff like that? >> There was a time when I actually we went. to Australia for um.

the MTV Music Awards. They were. launching the Australian network and it. was. um Sharon Osbourne was there and Ozzy. Osbourne and they. >> I just had Sharon on the podcast. >> that and Anna loved Sharon and she was. like she actually. called Sharon mom. >> Aw. >> Because she needed that mom figure and. um. and they were all over there and Carmen. Electra and stuff and so there was this. whole big thing and. it was a whole big thing that we filmed. that's never been seen, but like it's.

like this whole big um thing where Anna. was trying to outdo all of the other. people that was slated to perform and. stuff. And so um during that trip, there. was. she was over there to do some business. Um there was a guy who was flirting with. her. I was forced to take pictures of. her flirt flirting with this guy. >> Mhm. >> And really every time that we went to. every event, everybody that flirted with. her, I'm having to document my. girlfriend being flirted with with. somebody else, you know? >> Right. >> And it would girls, it would be guys, whatever. Like it whoever was taking up.

that time, you know, that was like like. it's it was a weird spot to be in. >> And they they had no idea, but you did. and you had to just bite the bullet. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, that's wild. >> And um. So anyways, I. What were you asking me? Sorry. >> No, um I actually forgot what I was Oh, how did she get away to cheat on you? >> So so during that Australia trip, there. was a guy flirting with her. Li- uh. you know, um. there was a business deal on the table. Um.

We I flew 24 hours. We were. We were And And Anna was there. We. filmed the whole thing. No one's seen. that, either. And it's like all this. behind-the-scenes craziness. And And. basically. um. there was a a situation where the guy. came up to the room that we were. supposed to share together, and I was. given a key for the room next door. Like. I was now the help. And I was like, wait a second. Or you. know, I was like I didn't belong in that. room. And so. there It It It, you know, she denied it.

later. I, you know, you know, but. out of that, I you know, I I I I feel. like something probably happened to. where I like I obviously wasn't in that. room, but. I had to put my foot down from that. point. That's when I That was like I. said all this This is all bull-. I don't give a [ __ ] what your public. persona is. I don't give a [ __ ] if. you're this. I I had enough. >> Mhm. >> Like, you know, like And. um. I was. you know, I flew all this way, you know, and I was with It was just me, Anna, and.

Howard. And then we met people there. from the different events and stuff. And. um. you know, Anna was looking forward to. this. Like this was She's like, "We're. going to the most one of the most. romantic places in the world." And blah. blah blah. And And it was supposed to be this time. And um still like again the miscarriage. was fresh on. my mind. We didn't talk about it. >> Right. >> We She didn't want to talk about it. And. um. she somehow far along. >> when you guys lost the baby, do you. know?

It was a few two three months, I think. Yeah. Um. but. somehow she turned that into. the. my suspicion about her cheating to. denial to. she wanted to talk about that. And I. don't know if that was just it was a. brain switch or a maneuver, but that that thing was wiped away. We. were now on to something else. And. that's what happened in that in in her. world really. You go from one thing to. another. You don't have much time to.

spend on it. But I was told in that. moment that I did not get the big. picture. That that you don't get what this is all. about. >> Right. >> You know. >> Sort of gaslighting you. >> Well, it like I like that I wasn't a. part of that picture. Like and I wasn't. like and and and I understood the. business aspect of it. I understood like. what I was supposed to do and say and. not do and say and all that stuff. But I it that trip which was um. it was a turning point for many. things for me to put my foot down for.

respect. And the odd thing was Anna's. show was over, so we have it all she was. still filming. >> Right. >> So, she filmed everything after. So, and. like all this stuff has just been. involved since stuff. And so, like it. just shows us totally different picture. of what if I would have taken all of. this stuff that we have that it's never. been seen and dumped it in the courts. when all the paternity stuff was going. and all these different the doctor. trials and all the different things. They would it would be okay. This all. makes sense now. But I I didn't. we didn't do that and and um.

and so, you know, people because I have. taken the high road in many ways. that has worked against me and my. relationship with Anna. It also worked. against me after she passed away cuz. people think that they can rewrite. history that I'm not going to say. anything because I haven't said. anything. Doesn't mean I don't know. anything or I don't have the receipts. and all the archives and things to show. to totally blow everybody out of the. water. >> You also had to protect. >> It that was the main thing. It was you. know, my daughter is just now she you. know, Dannielynn's 19. She'll be 20 in.

September. She's at the at the point. where now it's kind of like, okay, um there's some questions here. You. know, I have this or why is this person. saying this? But she did she sit back. and she did not watch the Netflix show. Um but she watched. the pain that I had from it. >> Mhm. >> And she felt for me in that moment where. I was actually feeling and I will say. honestly I it hurt me what they said. about me. I was. more afraid that she would hear some of. the things that they said about her mom. >> Mhm.

>> And and and. that not not because um. there's things that she um they're not. all great things. They're not bad. things. They're not things that like. uh I'm not putting myself on a pedestal. and saying that I you know, I haven't. done bad things or whatever. But what I. was more afraid of is that. the discrediting of her life story was. taken down. >> Right. >> in a two-hour show. for the purpose of what? You know, for. somebody to make money, to make ratings, to make try to get awards. The. vindication in that was that the show.

was called um Anna Nicole you don't know. me and people said and you never will. after you watch this show because blah. blah blah. So I was like, yes yes yes. And I was watching the Rotten Tomatoes. score and it was like way down and I was. like, let me frame that and send it to. that [ __ ] over there. You know. >> So. So take me on this journey of when. she does tell you that she's pregnant. because you guys are beefing and we'd. learned why. Um. tell me about this journey because this. is like right before she moves to the. Bahamas, correct? Okay. >> So.

the the I guess the the thing with um. me I you know, I got to the point where. I was like kind of fed up and um.