Joel Madden | Dumb Blonde Podcast

[music]. >> Is this thing on? My Y2K heart is. beating like a glow stick because I am. so excited that Joel Madden is finally. on the podcast. Thank you for being. here. >> Thanks for having me. >> Dude, I've like I've wanted you on the. podcast forever and then I saw you. started your own podcast and I got. jealous cuz I was like, "Oh man, he's. never going to get on the podcast now. cuz he has his own.".

>> I was always going to come to this. podcast. I've been following it. I. really love what you do and um. you know, I I. uh. I just think I love the I love talking. >> Yeah, what made you start a podcast? Cuz. I got to watch a couple of your episodes. cuz so Jacoby just came on the podcast. >> Yeah. >> Um and I watched you guys' episode. together and I was just like, you know. what, Joel's made for this. Like I think you really are made for. podcasting. >> I think I'm just wired that way.

>> Mhm. >> Um. what I do on the podcast is kind of what. I do in real life. Um. I'm more interested. in probably like. long conversations than short ones even. though little exchanges are nice. Um I'm a pretty. um. emotionally. um. What's the word? In in in introspective person. >> Mhm. >> So, I like think a lot.

>> Yeah. >> And I like to analyze a lot. >> It's the Pisces in you. >> It's very Pisces. Um and then I either. find myself. like a Pisces, there's the lower fish. which is like. more like in introverted and the upper. fish which is extroverted. >> Mhm. >> And I have both cuz sometimes I want to. talk to someone for a long time. >> Mhm. >> And then if I feel comfortable and I. feel like I can be vulnerable cuz it's a. vulnerable thing to do to ask people. questions. Uh and then I don't do well if I don't. feel that way. So, I can close up, which.

I think actually is. the early parts of my career when I. didn't really understand myself. probably, I probably looked a lot. poutier. and a lot [laughter] more like Cuz I was. so freaked out by having to be. extroverted, even though that existed in. me. >> Yeah. >> Um so, it was like a constant wrestling. match between those two. But now I feel. like the podcast. and the show has given me a really nice. outlet to like talk to people, which I.

really love to do. >> Yeah, you do a great job at it. Do you. ever get nervous before somebody comes. on? Cuz I've been doing this 8 years, and sometimes I still get butterflies in. my stomach. And what you were just. saying, there's sometimes that I will. rock a [ __ ] interview, and then. another time I'll bomb the interview. And I'm just like, what happened? And. like I think about it all night long cuz. I'm like, why did I not connect with. this person? Do you get like that? >> I do. Uh I find it going away more and more. and more. Maybe with age, maybe. >> Yeah, I'm here I'm We're the same age.

>> the same age? >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Oh, I thought you were 10 years younger. than me. >> I wish. I I will be after I get this. facelift, I'll be looking 10 years. younger. >> Yeah, yeah, you're [laughter] doing. great. You're doing great. I. >> just turned 46 last week. >> Happy birthday. >> Thank you. >> I like 46. >> It's awesome, right? It's a cool year. >> It's great. >> I feel like we have enough wisdom, but. we're still cool. >> Yeah, and it's different. 46 in 2026 is. different than 46 in like 1996. >> Yeah, it was like Golden Girls era.

>> It is. It's like I used to think that it. was old, and maybe it was me, or maybe. it was actually at the time because of. where we were at. But um I don't feel. like slow at all. >> Mhm. >> And I feel like I'm pretty plugged in. I. I mean, I have teenagers, so that keeps. me in touch, I think. But um. Yeah, I don't know. I think you're as. old as you feel, maybe. >> Yeah, absolutely. I tell my whole team, they're all younger than me and I'm just. like, I don't feel like I'm 46. I feel. like a like a maybe a 28, 29-year-old.

trapped in my body sometimes cuz I still. have so much energy and like I don't. know, I just 46 to me just doesn't seem. old anymore now that I'm here, you know? So, do you feel the same way? >> I don't feel old at all. >> Yeah. >> I mean. and I don't mind being old. >> Yeah. >> I've no I'm not hiding. >> You've earned your stripes. >> Definitely not hiding my age. >> Right. >> But I do feel like I need to be able to. be my age. So, I make decisions that. feel. age. um. >> appropriate. >> You know, like I don't want to go on. stage unless I am 46 on stage.

>> Right. >> Do you know [laughter] what I mean? >> Right. >> Yeah, I don't want to go on stage and. prance around. >> and slam guitars around or knock over. drum. >> or sometimes you do. Like [laughter]. like some however you are on stage is. how you are, but I do definitely feel. like. there's something that maybe I thought. you can only do it if you were young or. something. I maybe, I don't know. But. now I kind of go like, if I can be me on. stage and I don't have to pretend. anything, then I can still go on stage. And. and I think that's how I feel about.

life. Like. >> Right. >> I I want to go if I can't be a. 46-year-old dad of two teenagers who's. You know what I mean? Like I feel like. our maybe our our business, our. industry, our entertainment or even just. maybe. it's my thing. It could just be me. Like. that's I'm definitely open to that just. being me, but I feel like sometimes. the world. it makes you feel like you're supposed. to want to be younger or. or look younger or. >> put you in a box and I'll never let.

society put me in a box. Ever. No, I don't either cuz I I think. we make it look good, you know? And I I. don't think there's any reason to ever. uh what is the word that they that they. use all the time? It's not age shaming, but it's I forget what it is where they. are always like telling you that you. have to act your age and it's like, no, you don't have to act your age. Like we. are a different breed. You know, like we. came We're We're Gen What are we? Gen Z? Gen Z, right? >> Gen X. >> Are we Gen X? Yeah, we're Gen X. >> is very. >> Yeah, yeah. >> You're far off from.

>> It's. >> Because Gen X. >> [laughter]. >> X. >> It goes Gen X, millennials, >> Yeah. >> Gen Z. >> Gen Z, okay, I always get those mixed. up. Yeah. >> Yeah, so. >> I always get them mixed up. >> I believe Nicole is a millennial. >> Is she really? >> so. >> She's another person who has just aged. so beautifully, still looks young. I. mean, like you lucked out. You guys You. guys are a hot couple. >> We I got uh very. lucky with her cuz she's way above my uh.

Yeah, she's smart, she's beautiful, she's classy. >> each other. >> So, she's she's a one-of-a-kind, one-on-one. Like I just feel like uh I I. lucked out with her. But, she's a. millennial. I say it all the time. I'm. like, you're actually a millennial. 81, I think is I think millennials started. in 80, so. >> I'm 80. So, I'm Gen. X. >> No, I think I Are you sure? Give that a. goog. We have to check that. >> Yeah, yeah. Ask Sunny. Where's Sunny? Have you named your ChatGPT yet? >> No. >> I named mine Sunny. We love her. She's.

Well, we think it's a her. We're not. sure. >> She's 81. That's what That's You're. right. >> Wow, so I was I missed it by a year. >> You are You're You're Gen X. >> Right. >> And she's a millennial. >> Yes. >> So, I don't know why that matters so. much, but it does. >> Yeah, yeah. I It's It's just literally. just a few months off. >> of cool. >> I feel like we are like we're OG We're. the OGs. We earned our stripes. So, let's let's let's bring it all the way. back because, you know, Good Charlotte. just you guys really paved the way for. so many people and especially the genre.

of music that you guys did. And we were. just talking about that whenever we. first started that how you guys are like. the OGs and. >> That was nice of you to say. >> I appreciate that, but it's it's real, so. >> Well, >> Um. you guys literally um. have accomplished so much. And for. accomplishing so much, as I was. researching you last night, I realized. how like grounded you are and like how. normal you are. And you know, when you. think of rock stars, you don't think of. somebody who is as grounded and, you.

know, um introspective as yourself, which I really admire, but when you. really think about it, that's what a. real rock star is. It's somebody who can. lead by example and also show younger. generations of how you should be. How. does that feel to kind of carry that. weight on your Is it a weight on your. shoulder? >> Um I think that's very nice. That's a. huge compliment. Um so, it's it So, I I have to say that.

cuz I think uh. I live in my own, I think, little. reality, >> Mhm. >> which is really small. And um. I think. That's a really good question. I think I was different in my 20s, maybe. >> Mhm. >> Um but I I if I It's a It's It's It's. So, it's not an easy answer, right? Cuz. it's um. If I think. >> to it. >> There's layers to it the way the way um.

I guess if I'm trying to explain uh. how I feel. from my perspective. uh when you put it that way, which is. really which I like again, I say is a. really nice compliment. Um. I think I grew up. in a very simple place and way, and. I had a very. unique. um.

family life, and I think that set me up to. probably go in like one or two. directions. And so I think growing up in. the middle of nowhere, my mom was super. religious, I wasn't allowed to do. anything. My dad left when I was young. All those things kind of like the just. the top line stuff. There's it's a lot. more complicated than that as a anyone. who knows like like life life is so much. more complicated and there's so many. different um. you know, my story will be a bit.

different than my mom's story. Her. perspective, she'd say this, I'd say. that. My dad would have said this. So I. think there's a lot of like everyone's. living their own personal life inside of. a family life. It even even if it's like. tragic or troubled. >> I always say that you can grow up in the. same house different home. >> Yes. >> Because my little sister will tell you a. completely different story of growing up. and I'm like. I'm like where did the you know? So I. get it. I understand. >> is yours. >> Exactly.

>> And your memory is yours. >> Mhm. >> And I think you know, I will So all that to say, by the way, no answer I give you today is going to. be short. [laughter]. >> It's okay. I don't mind. I like. listening to you talk. >> on. >> No, we like it. >> Um. Um but. >> Well, let's do this. Let's circle back. to where this all started and go back to. your home life because that's actually a. like a little tidbit that I couldn't. find cuz I can't find you don't talk.

about yourself a lot. You talk about. Good Charlotte a lot. >> Yeah. >> And when I was researching you last. night, I was like I cannot get anything. on this man cuz he doesn't really open. up so much. So to hear you say that you. grew up in a super religious household. like I relate to that cuz I grew up in a. super southern Pentecostal household. >> were like Southern Church of God. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I never knew that about you guys. >> Yes. >> And everything was. um was was kind of the foundational. belief system was not um. it very cause and effect you know, cuz I.

still have a lot of faith and I would. say that I still have religion, but I. don't believe in religion as a as an. excuse to It's not a get out of jail. free card. So, working on yourself and. growing is something that like. you're going to do either way cuz nature. is we grow. Um. but if you learn how to grow and you. learn what that even means, you can. actually really grow. And so, what I. found in the kind of.

religious structure that I grew up in. was that was the reason for everything. and and so, like if you just pray for. something, maybe it'll happen if God. loves you and if he doesn't. then or it's not whatever. And I think. there's actually this thing about like. building things. You can And so, what. All that to say is it wasn't raised to. know how the world works. >> Right. It's always heaven or hell. >> There's no process. Yeah, there's no. causality, there's no process. So, when. you're raised in a house like that, you. really are.

um. not given any tools or information to. navigate life. And there's no hope unless. And coping skills and all that stuff. And And so, cuz any kind of science or. or anything is is is is wrong. It's. actually not. So, if you don't go to a. Christian therapist, then you're not. going to therapy cuz why would that. therapist who's spent decades becoming. an expert on the brain or the emotional.

or this or that uh be a trusted source. if they don't share the same faith as. you, which I don't believe. I don't. believe that people who don't share the. same faith can't. um. cooperate and help one another and. you know, and and um. and and so, all that to say. that so, if you have the extremely. religious household with coupled with. mental health, addiction, and all the other things that.

were there that contradict each other. >> Mhm. >> Um. it's a very and then also poverty, so. you have money. problems, you have addiction problems, you have mental health problems, and. then you have overtones of like explicit. religious. uh uh all that is like the. >> religious trauma. >> Right. It's trauma and it's like the. perfect. >> have it, too. >> Yeah. Uh so, it's the perfect uh recipe. for someone to go forth into the world.

with a bunch of baggage, a bunch of. issues, a bunch of unresolved things, a. bunch of questions, and know-how. in how the world works, in how life. works, in how what process is, and how. to. how uh how does success work, and. uh. and then also low self-esteem because. when. you know, also neglect in the house. There's all kinds of stuff in the house. So, there was just a big messy uh uh bag. of stuff there, and then I think we went. we left home if fled home essentially at.

like 17, 18. >> Can we pause right there for a second? When you talk about addiction and mental. health in the household, are you talking. about yourself or are your parents? >> Okay, so you're talking. >> my family. So, my dad. >> So, it does run in the family cuz you're. very open about your mental health, too, and I love that about you. >> Yeah. Um my dad was a alcoholic who he. died from it. >> Mhm. >> Um my family members, which I don't feel. it's important to say who. >> Right, right, right. >> um for their own sake and uh but uh lots.

of everybody so many people were. addicted. >> Got you. >> to everything. So, there was. there's there's all kinds of um every. kind of addiction. So, >> you had so many examples of things you. didn't want to be or things that you. were going to be very aware of. >> And I couldn't make sense of them till I. was older and I saw addiction play out. in my career with other people cuz when. you go into music there's tons of. addicts around. Um it's a very uh it's a.

it's a industry that's very uh. addiction-friendly. And so of all kinds, so I was so. surrounded and immersed in addiction um. growing up that it was a very familiar. So I also found myself being very. attracted to and comfortable with uh. addicted people. Um so. um. that was kind of my comfort zone cuz it. was like normal, you know. >> What you call home. >> And then. healthy people. I was like.

>> Safe. It's a. >> Who the [ __ ] are you? Get away from me. You know what I mean? >> cuz a safe safety feel to somebody who. has gone through trauma like you have, somebody who's safe it like sets off the. alarms. We're like, why is there no. chaos going on? We need to tear some. [ __ ] up in here, you know? >> Yes. And so. um. leave home. >> So you got you said you guys fled from. home. >> Yeah. >> that entail? Because I fled from home. too at 14. >> Um. so my brother had ran away my older.

brother had ran away when I was um about. 15 and we were very close. So it was. very painful. Um and then my my mom and. us were always moving cuz we were always. kind of we my dad had left which was. also very painful and I was very angry. And then um my mom who struggled with a. lot of uh health and mental health and. all that um really struggled to. keep it together. So we were always.

moving all the time. There was like we. get evicted or we have to live with. someone or living with some people from. church or we're like so we're moving. around and I got very good at like. moving in like we had this like Astro. minivan that like only two of the doors. worked and the back doors and we would. like load all our in and we would move. and it was like literally like trash. bags, a suitcase, like [laughter] boxes. >> I still pack my houses in trash bags. >> yeah, like put it all in a trash bag.

Some nice trash bags now, but um. >> Yeah, they're strong as hell. >> They yeah, um. >> [laughter]. >> I'm very good at moving, but I'm also. like very skittish. about houses and moving and stuff, so. it's funny. I've worked on it though. Um. >> When you say skittish, what do you mean. by that? Like is like something freak. you out in the house or do things have. to be a certain way? >> I don't unpack for a very long time. >> Aw, cuz you don't feel safe enough. >> feel like it's real. And I it's so funny. cuz we just. built our like forever home, like our. dream home and it took us a long time.

Nicole's very loving, very patient, but. she's had to deal with. uh uh. uh stuff I don't think she's. she she's very compassionate, but she. doesn't always understand and over the. years she's gotten to cuz she knows me. and she knows my story and so that's. what we do with our partners. We. >> Yeah, you learn them. >> And you learn their little quirks and. they come from stuff, you know? And um. she's. uh. been very patient, um but.

I always have to have one room in the. house that's like. still in boxes and it's stuff I can't. and it's stuff I won't throw away or. it's stuff, you know, and it's funny. because like she's. it's it's like my thing. But we have we. have it like it's a beautiful house, but. don't go in that room. >> [laughter]. >> That's. >> Yeah, skip Joel's room. >> room, but it's like it's been I've been. working it out and like we're in a good. place and and it's like it's it's it's. contained. >> to unpack. >> Yes. >> You know, like you got to tell you got.

to go back and hug your inner child and. and let them know that you deserve to. unpack. >> Absolutely and and I've been uh. you know, I've been in therapy now for. 13, 14 years, and. that's how long it takes. for a lot of this stuff. >> Healing is not overnight, and I preach. that on this podcast so much. I'm still. I feel like we're never healed. I feel. like our journey is to learn and to just. keep healing through life. Like it it. doesn't matter if I conquer one thing,

and the next thing pops up, you know? So, I just feel like it's we're always. on this journey to learn and to teach. people what we're learning along the. way. >> Yeah. I think. I think it's self-esteem. Mhm. You know, I think it's. when you grow up. in a place where. there's a lot of unsafety or confusion. or. instability or. whatever it is. And your parents are.

trying their best, or maybe they're not, I don't know. I think mine did. I think. mine were my my parents were honest. people. with a lot of problems. >> And you have to think of how they were. raised. >> And how they were. >> That's where I've had to put myself out. with my parents. It's like. >> trauma. >> Exactly. >> is a real thing. Um. >> Which is not an excuse for their. behavior, cuz we're breaking. generational curses, but at the same. time it does give. it helps us to heal to think of it in. that aspect also. >> think of anything as excuses. I think.

it's just information. >> Right. Yeah, that's a good way to look. at it. >> understand what that thing is, why that. person is. Doesn't mean I have to accept. it. Doesn't mean I have to be around it. It doesn't mean I have to um. I can deal with it or not. It does. That's the thing The lie is that we have. to like like. uh. uh we have to like. make things work or like. >> We have to forgive. >> Or forgive or accept. Like you can. forgive and still never see someone. again if you want to.

>> Absolutely. >> really believe in autonomy. >> Mhm. >> And I think that you deserve to have the. life you want to have and live in and. >> your peace at whatever cost it is. >> boundaries and. I think the goal in life is to. get to a place where you need nothing. cuz you have. yourself. >> Yeah. >> And that takes. there's like a a piece of like like.

you want to have deep. connected meaningful relationships but. you want like I want that let's say like. with my marriage you want to have a. you want to be together you both have to. want to be together. >> Right. You choose each other. That's. what Jay and I say. We choose each other. every day. >> Absolutely. And. you know. it's it's more complicated. I probably. make it sound like it's but but like cuz. there's. >> No, I love that you said that because I. think a lot of the youth needs to hear.

that because especially with. this healing culture that we have like. on Tik Tok and all that stuff. Everybody. is like forcing forgiveness down. people's throats and I think somebody. needs to say it like guess what? You. don't have you can forgive but you can. also forget that person and they don't. have to be in your life. >> Yeah, or and and forgive is it even such. a. such a specific word like you can make. peace with it. >> There you go. Even better. >> You know what I mean? And you can that. version of whatever you want to call it.

forgiveness is more like you don't have. to carry it with you always. >> Yes. >> You know? And so. um. that being said. I. I came to the. I think I came to the um. realization with my parents that I I I. didn't feel I needed to forgive them cuz. I just didn't think they did anything. wrong. I think they were negligent and.

they they didn't know what they were. doing and I came to an understanding of. them that made me. really love them. >> Mhm. >> And um. >> That's powerful. >> It is and but I can also be honest with. them. >> Yeah. >> And. show them what I've learned. And hope that they. could. I also believe in sharing something if. we figured something out with people. So. if we figured something out that worked. for us or some information that really.

enlightened us that we should share it. and like that's. I have a great relationship with my mom. now because it's very. honest and I can share with her. Like. hey I I kind of realized this. And then she can take it. I'm like do it. don't you don't need to tell me what you. think about just take that and. meditate on it and see like maybe you'll. something will come to you and you'll. share it with me. And like we have a. very kind of we've we've got an evolved. relationship. um.

And and then my dad we had a really. great relationship. We we we we reconnected and and. reconciled. um the last 10 years of his life and um. and we had a really nice I really loved. it. I had got so much joy out of it. >> Yeah. >> Um. and when I had been angry at him for so. long. um but I came to understand him. >> Mhm. >> You know and accept him. And um. And and then and then I think I got a. lot out of that because I think I have a.

really nice relationship with my kids. and it's like a living vicariously cuz. I'm getting to feel what like that. relationship would have felt like. >> You're getting to be the dad you never. got. >> Right and it's cool. >> Yeah. >> Uh. >> Which I want to talk about that later. too because I I love love love love how. you and Nicole kind of like. I don't know if the word saved each. other is the the right terminology but. it just seems like when you guys united. as one, you literally just became the.

best versions of yourself and the best. parents. And that is because she was. going down one trajectory, you were. going down one trajectory, and then it's. like you guys have your baby girl, and. you know, somebody asked earlier, "What's Nicole doing?" I said, "She's. being a mom, dude.". >> Yeah. >> I was like that. And that's like the. coolest thing you can do. I'm sure she's. doing more than that. But it's like. that's like the coolest thing that you. could say about Nicole Richie and you is. that you guys literally just really. buckled down with each other and just. created this safe space of your family.

>> Yeah, I I think um. I appreciate that. Um. It's just sacred ground. >> Yeah. >> So. you know, the narrative is going to be. the narrative. I'm super aware of the. way the world works, and the narrative. of what Nicole or who she was before uh. the the. the the us, right? Because I understand. also we live i- i-. in people are interested in in.

these things. Um. I don't fight it, but. I. I do I will say that Nicole has always. been the person she is today. >> Yeah. >> So I'm very I'm very um. I'm her biggest fan, and I was the. from the first time I met her because I. see someone who's very strong. and has been through a lot, >> Mhm. >> and has the integrity and the self.

um respect above. to not have feel like. I I what I don't know the word, but it's. like there's an elegance to. um. and a bit of a class. to. being above. a narrative that everyone else has. chosen for you and she was never that. narrative regardless of some mistakes. that she made when she was young like. everyone.

they got to run run wild with them in. that time period because it was so. disrespectful it was very disrespectful. to women women were not protected what's. the word. and. at the time we all saw it too like at. the time like that was it was but there. was no. there was no wait. the public didn't have a say so the. narrative would become the narrative and. the people in that were reading it could. participate in it or they could be like. I don't believe that and certainly just. like but now people can say it so things.

can build and there can become like the. the court of public opinion is real now. where it wasn't really back then like. there was there was no social media so. whereas today when there's a narrative. that feels like maybe that's not the. whole story. people can speak up and there's like. these Tik Tok sleuths and there's people. you know there's all this stuff. you what Tik Tok is like the FBI you. could really see. you could really you could really like.

so that being said the person that I met. is the person that I'm with. and so I didn't save her. at the time I also think we were young. we were in our 20s and and I was. especially emotionally. I still like really underdeveloped and. like not functioning as high. as. I. I was immature. and so I had my own work to do but.

I think. it was very clear and easy when you meet. the person that you love and when you. have. the the things that I valued always in. my core was like I want to meet a nice. girl and. and settle down and. have some kids and hopefully have a nice. family. It was kind of the dream I. always had cuz I didn't know what that.

felt like. >> Right. >> And so it was kind of like a. a far-fetched dream for me but I still. kind of like really hoped for it and um. and then you know we got together and we. had our kids and we now 19 years or this. year will be 20 years. in like December. >> Crazy. >> years since we you know met. >> Yeah. >> And um. >> Which in Hollywood that is unheard of. You know I mean it happens but it's very. rare that you guys have this. long-lasting love and I think how.

protective you are over her like in. every interview that I've seen you're. always very protective of her and like I. don't know you guys just didn't live. your lives. um. out loud. You guys kind of like. sheltered yourselves and I you can see. the big shift when you guys get. together. So yeah maybe saved each other. wasn't the right word but in a sense you. guys really buckled in with each other. whether you guys went through behind. closed doors none of it got leaked. Like. nobody knows any of the drama and I. think that's so cool because that's.

almost impossible to do with people that. are of you guys a stature. >> Uh. I agree. I I do but I also. >> He's like I don't know how we did it. >> [laughter]. >> But I think like you know I think you. guys are probably the same. >> Oh honey. I listen I blast our [ __ ]. everywhere but I can I own what we've. been through you know and like I talk. about my past and I talk about things. that my husband and I have been through. but. >> But I think you guys are coming from a. when you share I think you're coming.

from a place of helping people. >> Absolutely. Yes. Absolutely. >> a lot So I think it's the same kind of. integrity. >> Yeah. >> I I don't think that I think that we're. um. we live in the world where. completely aware. of. how. of what the world is and we know that. um. if we're not. protective of our our kids and our.

family. that everyone else can just run. can tell stories that will get. memorialized and become things that like. even when you look on our like Wikipedia. pages, they're not half of it's it like. you know what I mean? >> those. I don't. >> But like that's what people do. They. like look up and they go oh this this. they get information and you're like and. like half of that's just kind of like. what a press a tabloid story was a. headline and then it got someone added. it in or something. I don't know exactly. how it works, but it's like kind of [ __ ].

and I think you you become. acutely aware of. of what could. when you're responsible for your kids. especially like you're just kind of like. you're just trying to protect them from. the world a little bit and at the same. time you're trying to teach them how the. world works and how we. have to move through the world and it's. not because we think we're this or we. think we're that, we're just aware of.

it. >> Yeah. >> And um. >> It's respectable though how you guys do. move. Yeah. >> I think we just kind of manage. that part of uh our life. >> Mhm. >> as like a stressor. >> Mhm. >> that we just try to manage with care and. like um you don't get it all right. Uh I. think when we were younger we were like. we felt like we had to do some things. that we I now looking back at the time. it was different, but now looking back. you're like. I wouldn't have [ __ ] done a magazine.

of our wedding or our baby pictures, but. at the time it felt like. >> like the thing to do back then. >> Well, also they were hunting you. So, you were kind of managing you didn't. have Instagram to go like, "Okay, here's. the picture." Now, they. it was just felt like it was this big. tornado of just trying to So, it was. like a weird thing to experience. >> do it or they were going to do it. without your consent. >> you couldn't control it and it was like. it was just weird. It was such a weird. >> The paparazzi bullied.

>> They did. They ran You know they were. with Nicole I remember when she was. at the time. I think um. my son had just been born. Um. and he was in the like it was like weeks. after he was born a paparazzi rear-ended. her. >> Mhm. >> at a stoplight to try and have to get. her out of the car. Like they did that. >> Wow. >> crazy at the time. >> With the baby in the car? >> Yeah.

>> That's insane. If they did that now they. would get arrested. >> no one give about it. >> Wow. >> Now, there's like there's there's. there's been enough like lawsuits. There's been enough. and there's public outcry when people. see something wrong and and that. actually does affect how. >> people move. >> how people move and and what things. could go to court or not. Like literally. just on based on if something picks up. steam or whatever. Like that [ __ ] is. real. Like the social media of it all is. a real thing. So, at the time.

no one give a about that. >> Yeah. >> She'd even complain about it. It was But. she was just like. you know those kinds of things that was. the time the 2000s the early 2000s was. like. >> insane. >> insane like that. But anyways, I we. digress. I think that like we have. always just tried to. um. navigate it. cuz. it to protect our family while also kind. of being aware that um if we complain.

about it we would. you're. you can't just be so out of touch that. like. you. you can't feel sorry for yourself cuz. it's not that's not how we feel. It's. been more just like try to protect as. much as you can so that your family has. a shot at like some form of like. uh. a nice private life where your kids get. to just grow up and be as normal as. possible even though I wouldn't say it's. been totally normal. >> [laughter].

>> Um. >> How do you feel about um your daughter. being in the press lately for wanting to. change her name? >> Well, that's the thing, too, is like. that again, like that's a narrative. everybody ran away with because it gets. clicks. If you I even saw it and I was. like, "Oh my god, like" I think it was. like the Daily Mail or something was. like, "Her transformation.". She's been going by her middle name. since she was in like first grade. >> Aw. >> Like she chose it. She went to school. one day she came home. or we went to we went to the.

uh. open house night or whatever and the. teacher was like, "Kate's uh. doing great. Uh she's so nice." And. we're like, "Who's Kate?" And they're. like, "Your daughter, Kate. That's what. she said her name was." We're like, "Oh, she's going by her middle name now?" And. then [laughter] we went home and we're. like, "You you go by Kate at school?". And she goes, "Yeah, I like it." And we. were like, "Okay, great." And then we we. everyone who knows her calls her Kate. As long as you've known Kate uh if. you've known her since she was uh 7. >> Yeah. >> she's been Kate. >> I love that you guys accepted it though. and be yourself.

>> Yeah, it wasn't a big deal. It was her. middle name. So, I thought it was cool. I would I always said I want to get a. tattoo her name tattooed on my neck, but. like. it wasn't a big deal. It was just like, "Oh, cool. Like that's that's cute. You're going by your middle name. That's. sweet." And then. there was no discussion. It wasn't a big. deal. And then as long as. uh you know, for 11 years now she's gone. by Kate. So, everyone knows who as Kate. If you know her, you know she's Kate. >> Right. >> And people that don't know her would.

call her Harlow. And it was always kind of funny because. like she. is kind of smart actually. She She knows. like if someone called her Harlow like. they don't really know her. >> Yeah. >> And uh it's kind of interesting. >> alias. >> A little bit, yeah. But she just did. that when she was in first grade and it. was never even a discussion. >> Crazy how that headline just popped up. >> So they made it a headline cuz that was. I think that was like probably the most. interesting thing about her turning 18. >> Yeah. >> Was. >> Oh, I didn't think of that at all.

>> going like who's Kate cuz they've always. called her Harlow. But I think because. she hasn't been out there. maybe it's interesting. But um. it's just funny. I know when in our. we none of us cared. She doesn't care. >> Yeah. >> But it was funny cuz like. it's a big deal she's 18, you know. Um. she's extremely uh she's such a nice. girl. She's really smart. She's a lot. like her mom. She's uh. >> She is her twin. >> She's like her Yeah, she's.

she's beautiful like her mom. She's. smart. She's sharp. She's uh and she's. incredibly talented with. you know, what what she loves which is. like fashion and design and things like. that. She has a great eye. And um I'm. excited to see what she does what she. chooses to do. >> What is it like being a dad? Like what. like becoming a father just you know, and we're going to get into the Good. Charlotte stuff like that. But I just I. want to get to know you, you know. Um. you know, you're this rock star and. you're having these babies and you have.

a little girl to start. Like what is. that like when you hold your little girl. for the first time? >> Um. I've always been in awe of her. >> Mhm. >> Ever since she was born I've been in awe. of her. She's she's really special. And I felt incredibly uh. uh. always felt incredibly. um. uh what's the word? >> Lucky? >> Lucky is a word, but it's beyond that. I.

feel. uh. I've always been in awe of her. She's. special. I've always Ever since she was. born, first time I held her, I was the first person to hold her. >> No. >> Um. and um. I knew she was special and I felt in awe. of that and that I I got to be. uh the person who gets to. uh say I'm her dad and call her my. daughter. I feel like uh it's been. I always say like my kids have made it.

They've made it so easy. >> Mhm. >> to be a dad. They are such easy people. Uh they're they're and um so it's it's. not been some big sacrifice to be their. dad. >> Yeah. Well, they're a product of their. own environment. >> Yeah. And it feels to me like I was given a. gift from God, these kids, cuz they are. really cool, easy, um. fun, and they make me They make me happy.

They make me smile. They make me And and. I've never worried about them. I mean, you worry when they're little about. maybe they're. You just be Becoming a parent is is can. be nerve-racking or whatever and you. just want to keep them safe and all. that, but they're so smart. They know. who they are. And um I always give their mom I Nicole. is is. Nicole's like that. When you get to know. her, you're not you're not worried about. her. She's She's so sharp and she's so. strong and I feel like they got that. >> off [snorts] those vibes for sure.

>> Yeah, she's. >> give her off any damsel in distress. vibes. >> No, she's. she's definitely doing what she wants. and um. um I feel like my kids got all that from. her. >> Yeah. >> So, I I I just feel lucky. I feel like. I've been the luckiest guy in the world. um with my wife and kids. >> I love hearing you talk about your. family. So, let's circle back to you. fleeing home. That's where we left off. >> Fled fled home. >> How old were you when you left home? >> I think I was 18. Just turned 18.

>> Okay, so you guys had already started. the band though. Didn't you start the. band at 15? >> Yeah. >> Okay, so take me into the bedroom with. you and Benji forming this band. Where. Where did music come into play for you. guys? Was that your escape? >> Uh yeah, I think um. it was really hard at the time. My dad had left. Um a lot of turmoil in the house, a lot. of money problems, school was hard. Um. and. I think music.

was and and you know, it's tough like. you're a teenager and like. you're just trying to figure out who you. are. Uh and at the you know, I'm not a huge. guy, but I I was especially not like. tall or or cool when I was 15. Uh so it. was a. >> I don't think any of us were. >> Yeah, I was like. so lonely man. Um so I think when we we we we started. to discover music and it really I felt. like for the first time. when I found like these bands and stuff.

I started to identify with like. uh. like. I could dress that way. and feel cool. And the music. >> alter ego. >> Yeah, and the music made me feel cool. and it gave me somewhere to kind I think. it gave us somewhere to escape to. >> Mhm. >> Where it felt like there was also like. immediately we started dreaming. Immediately the very very first day we. started Good Charlotte was just me and. Benji in our bedroom. >> Yeah. >> We're like, "We're going to start a. band." and we started thinking of names. and we came up with Good Charlotte. And.

um. and then we had a dream and then we were. full fully focused on that and it was. like escape from all the stuff. And then. that became the mission and then I think. the mission gave us. um. a lot of hope and a lot of purpose and. we just started working on it every day. We started writing songs. If we weren't. writing songs, we were looking at we. were reading magazine articles. We were. trying to figure out how to they do it. And we were like from day one we were. focused on like how do you do that?

We're going to do it and figuring it. out. Then we found our band members. Uh Paul, our bass player, uh. >> Were these childhood friends? >> They were in school. We were asking. around. We were like is there anyone. >> Like anybody can join the band. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I knew his sister. and then he was he was a grade under us. and he he was a bass player and he was. like do you want to be in our band? And. he was like sure. >> [laughter]. >> That was it. And then we had our first. band practice and it was like that. We. were just putting it together and um I. think it just gave us. >> first practice like? Cuz I'm sure you.

guys did you guys have any musical. experience? >> No, we had no. >> [laughter]. >> So you guys were just in the garage just. hammering away on whatever. >> have any instruments. You know, we. >> [laughter]. >> Then we got a guitar this like guitar. and Paul taught Benge like three chords. >> Aw. >> Benge had three chords and we started. writing songs with those and then a guy. at church gave us like a bass he and we. had a little karaoke machine and um this. like old little karaoke machine that had. tapes and we would like plug a guitar in. and a mic in and we would make little.

songs on it. And that's how we wrote our. first songs. >> Wow. >> And. it was it was crazy. >> days could never even imagine the [ __ ]. that we had to improvise and come up. with. >> The amount of work. >> [laughter]. >> that it took. >> that it takes, yeah. >> to. even just get places. >> Yes. Yes. Cuz now you can make a video. and it goes viral and you have a record. deal. >> it on your phone. >> Yeah, it's crazy but back in the day. like you guys had to do what you guys. did. >> It was so hard. >> [laughter].

>> But it wasn't hard at the time. >> Right. >> exciting. >> Yeah. >> But if you. >> Gave you something that gave you hope. >> Yes, and but if you said okay, now you. have to go back and do it again the same. way." [laughter and clears throat] I'd. be like, "Hell no, I'm not doing that.". >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, cuz you were on the journey. You were just you you had those blinders. on and you were just like, "I have a. goal and this is what I'm going to do.". >> Yes. >> So, take me on this journey. You guys. form Good Charlotte. You guys are in the. garage making music. You and Benji, you know, twins, best. friends, I'm assuming, obviously. >> And we'll talk Yeah, we'll talk about.

you guys' relationship in a minute, but. take me on this journey with Good. Charlotte because I love the fact that. you guys picked out the name Good. Charlotte because just from I you know, my husband's been in the music industry. a long time. I've been around the music. industry a long time. >> Yeah. >> And I've never heard one bad word about. you guys. >> Oh, really? >> I have always He said, "Oh, really?". >> [laughter]. >> That's a nice thing to hear. >> No, I swear. I always hear how you guys. are always trying to lift people up and. always trying to help people. That's one. thing I've always heard about you guys. >> I'd agree with that.

>> Which I think is really cool. Um. I love Like I was saying, I love that. that you came up with the name Good. Charlotte. But so, take me on this. journey of. leaving home. You guys are 18. You're. still doing Good Charlotte. Are you. playing shows? Where are you at in this. moment? >> Um. So, at that point, we'd had the band for. a couple years. Um we were graduating high school, barely. >> Just so you know, I'm looking at notes. over here. I'm not over here playing. like. >> No, I like that. That's smart.

>> tests or anything. >> smart. I should have one of those for my. podcast. >> Oh, it's the best. And you can just you. sit there and you just scroll through. >> How's my mic level? >> Does it have to be so low? I'm so used. to hiding behind my microphone at my. desk. >> [laughter]. >> I like to hide, too. >> Me, too. I She'll be I'll be in the. middle of the interview and she'll be. like, "Put the mic down." And I'm just like, "Right here.". >> I'm [clears throat] a detail guy. >> Yeah. >> come to my set, which you have to come. sometime, every angle has been carefully toiled.

over. >> Curated. >> Yeah. >> That's how I am, too. >> not going to I'm not going to lie about. it. >> [laughter]. >> So, we're 18. We're going on this. journey with You guys have had the band. for a little while. >> So, we were 18. I think we had just. graduated. >> Mhm. >> Which barely happened. My mom really. wanted me to graduate. Um and I was I. was I'm I have all kinds of uh learning. disabilities and ADHD and all that. stuff, you know, the the the um creative. stuff. And um.

but at the time, you know, in Southern. Maryland, you're you're there's there's. not a lot of. you know, >> Back then. >> resources for. >> Back in that time frame, nobody cared. that we could pay attention in school. I. was the same way. I literally could not. I would rock back and forth in my desk. Like I just couldn't do it. >> Uh and getting an understanding of like. dyslexia, >> Mhm. >> learning stuff, ADHD in my older life. helped me actually. understand and be way better. Had I.

learned it then, I think I would have. excelled in in in in really. But it's a. different time. So, anyways, barely. graduate. We're getting evicted for like. the last time. And we kind of just say to our mom, "We're gone. You just take care of our sister who's. still at at home.". Uh my younger sister who's a year and a. half, 2 years younger. And um so, we. just left. And we we lived down in the. really far down in the country. And we.

like walked down this like country road. to this country store that was at the. end of the road. And there was a. payphone. And we. called cuz there's no cell phones. Or at. least we didn't have one at the time. >> Well, I think we had beepers back then. We had beepers. >> Yeah, we didn't have them, but like they. there were beepers. We called my friend. who had a car. He came and picked us up. We went and stayed at his house.

And then. um. and then we started figuring it out. We. were like we I I remember our first. little apartment we got cuz I we always. worked jobs. So I always had to help we. always had to help our mom with the. bills and stuff. So we were always. working like 40 hours a week like since. we were 14. >> Wow. >> always worked. So that was that that was. like never a problem. >> a heavy load to carry as a teenager. >> Yeah, it was it was it was at the time. it was just all we knew and I really.

loved working. So I actually really. enjoyed my jobs. >> Yeah. >> So like we worked at a pizza place, I. worked at uh Food Lion, I worked at. Golden Corral, I worked at all these. places. Um. and I actually really enjoyed it cuz I. love working. So. I felt like I was doing something and. then like paying bills and stuff made me. feel really good about myself. >> Aw. >> Um so I never minded working. >> Mhm. >> Um. and my dad worked really hard my whole. life. I remember just seeing always.

working. He was like he was a. butcher. And then he would paint houses. on the weekends and he was always doing. stuff like side jobs and so I always. like understood like you have to just. work. And um. so we left home. We got an apartment. over a funeral home. It was like this little. little apartment they were renting out. like they had like two or three little. apartments above this like funeral home. and this family like it was really.

weird. >> Were they cooking people down below? >> They were like. preparing bodies like. >> What Yeah, like were they cremating. them, too? >> Uh maybe, I don't know. >> Does it smell like refried beans? >> Uh you know? >> [laughter]. >> Cuz I've heard that before. >> I don't know. I think I blocked it out, but it was [laughter] like our first. apartment. >> But I mean congratulations for sure. >> And it was weird, and [laughter] they. had like a um. an uh they had like an adult son who. lived in one of them who who managed the.

apartments, but it's he was a drug. addict. He was like weird, and he's like. partying every night, and he he would. get like out of his mind on like. whatever, and he would like beat on our. door. And it was like very traumatic, cuz we had never we hadn't [laughter]. even been out in the world, and like. we're so our first apartment was like. this. >> this. >> [laughter]. >> Anyways, we. we we start. living on our own, and we just start the. whole focus is Good Charlotte. Everything is about Good Charlotte. So, we're working jobs, and we're we ended.

up moving up to Annapolis, Maryland, where we um where there was a lot of. bars, so we started playing all the. bars, and that's the we moved up there. for that, cuz there was like a local. like music uh like bar scene. And we. started playing acoustic sets at bars. all the time, and we were saving our. money, we were buying band equipment, we. were. booking shows, and we just started. trying to make it. It was the '90s, you. know, so it was all very. make a demo tape, you're passing it out, you're And then um. somewhere in there.

we started to kind of like build a. little local. following, you know, and and and um. and then we. we just. stayed on it, and we we built this kind. of local thing. >> yeah. >> And then we started getting, you know, like opening slots locally when they. needed to sell a few hundred more. tickets at this venue for this band, they would throw us on shows locally, cuz we started kind of And then from. there, we started regionally getting. shows in Philly, getting shows in New.

York, and we started, you know, making. our way. um. on the East Coast playing, and then and. then by '99. um. the labels were all kind of. you know, one label guy had found our. thing, gave it to another guy. So, then. by '99 we were we were like some we were. we were made a name for ourself. And then the the typical kind of classic. local radio station plays us, all the. labels then kind of jump. Then there's a. big thing, bidding war, all that stuff,

and we end up getting signed, and we. signed to Sony back in like '99. And uh. and then we just never let up. >> Yeah. >> Once we got that opportunity. >> Put on their necks. >> Yeah. We just. It It That was easy work from the jobs. we had had and the hours we put in at. our real jobs. The opportunity to get paid to to make a. living and um. you know, um we. signed a big record deal, signed a big. publishing deal, uh.

bought our mom a place. >> Aw. >> Uh. and then just got in the van, started. working, and then. >> Nobody knows what the van is like. I'm. telling you. Jay and I had a van, too, when we first started off, and it is. rough. >> Yeah, it's real. It's real. You're just. you're you're you're you're you're. you're slogging it out. And then um by. 2002, you know, we had our second. record. That's the one that uh everyone. kind of knows us for. >> Yeah. >> And um. >> Well, in 2000, you guys started getting. a buzz with the song "Little Things.". And that's kind of where you guys got.

your buzz, and then you opened up for. Was it Blink 182? And was that like your. big first break? >> Uh. >> Or did I misread that somewhere? >> Well, we did open for Blink on in like a. on a like a local show. >> Mhm. >> Um I would I would say it probably. contributed It's one of the bricks. I. think there was a bunch of that. We got. offered the Lit tour when they were. doing the East Coast. We did that. We. did Eve 6. We did a bunch of like those. radio um bands uh bands in the '90s, uh.

all that all that stuff. So, we were. doing all that stuff. And um the all. Yeah, I would say those were like all. big breaks. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Take me into the album of Lifestyles of. the Rich and Famous because I mean this. is when you guys exploded everywhere. I. mean you couldn't look anywhere and. there wasn't Can we bring guy liners. back? >> MTV era. >> Do you wear eyeliner anymore? >> No. >> Damn it. I love guy liners. Like I I'm. from the 80s era though. I'm from the. 80s hair bands, you know, like I love.

guy liners. And every time I talk about. guy liners on the podcast everybody's. always like what's a guy liner? I'm like. you had to have lived it. >> You had [laughter] to be there. >> You had to have been there. >> it. >> When How did Yeah, were you guys. inspired from the 80s hair bands with. the guy liner stuff? >> No. >> No, it wasn't more punk? >> It was like punk thing. Yeah. It was like. Yeah, I don't know what it was. It was. just like. >> [laughter]. >> Guess that's how I felt something. >> back. Bring it back. I love that. >> it all messy like you've been crying. >> Oh, love it. My favorite. Yep. Don't get.

me excited over here. >> Yeah. >> All right, so Lifestyles of the Rich and. Famous was 2002. um from young The Young and the. Hopeless. Take me on this journey. because this is where you guys pretty. much like catapult. Were you like. mentally. um. all of that? >> Um I think we had been running so hard. and so fast at it that when it when that. record broke through. um.

I don't know if we even looked up to. understand or realize at the time. Obviously now at my age I understand how. big that moment was. And it was big but. it it it was so the years we spent. before. which I think most artists that have had. this experience could probably relate to. is we were. so relentlessly working towards success. Um. >> And you guys were in survival mode.

>> Yeah, and we were in survival mode and. and then. there's two parts, right? There's the. experience that everyone else is seeing. So, you're. watching it on MTV or you're seeing it. even if you're. in the industry and you're in another. band and you watch a band. All that is just a perception of someone. else. It's the experience everyone else. is seeing. And then there's the experience you're. having. And then there's layers to that. >> Yes. >> Because.

um. I think the short answer everyone wants. to hear is like, "Yeah, it was great.". And it was. >> Yeah, I don't want to hear that. I want. to hear the real stuff. >> But, I think we were so overwhelmed. and. also so afraid of. losing it. when we got it. It was almost like we. caught a whale and we were just holding. on to try and and and and. that was the.

I think that's the. the perception of if this is just dumb. luck. >> Right. >> Which is not. >> Do you think every artist has that? Because I know my husband goes through. that also, where it's like you There was. a moment where he ran himself into the. ground because he was just chasing, you. know, and he you kind of have to step. back. Did you have that moment, too, where you were like running yourself. into the ground trying to chase this. dream? >> We ran ourself into the ground many.

times. I don't think we were old enough. or mature enough to actually. think we could step back. >> Yeah. >> So, one of the things I think when I see. another artist having great success. is. my. two thoughts I always think I always go, "Oh, that's great.". Second thought is, "Oh, man, I hope. they're okay.". >> Mhm. >> You know? Cuz. there's. the. if you're not.

if you if you don't. um. Let me Let me think about how to say it. because I I'm not. No one should ever be conflicted about. their success. >> Mhm. >> Cuz they earned it. But they should be thoughtful. and they should give themself the space. to decide. uh. what what they want to do, how they want. to participate, uh how fast do they want. to go, how much do they want to do, and.

not feel like. they owe. their success anything. >> Mhm. How long did it take you to figure. that out? >> Uh like probably I was 40. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So. I think one of the um you know, one of. the things I love about um. your husband. >> Mhm. >> is. I think he had to take a long winding. road to get to his success. So I do.

think he is. more. aware. of. um. I think he's more mature. And so he can actually. stop even though it's hard to sometimes. cuz you're overwhelmed by the the the. the flow of information is just so much. The deal flow is so wide and and and and. far and reaching and it's all coming at. you from all the that the experience of.

of success feels so something like that. It's like it's coming at you from all. angles and and you don't want to um. you know, the old saying make hay while. the sun shines is real. Like there is a. real there's opportunistic moments where. you have to take a. uh you have to you you have to be in. that moment and you want to be um. ready and able to capitalize on. opportunity and and what other people. will call luck is more just like you. were down going down the road for so.

[ __ ] long and then you hit this. moment where. um. all the work you did stacked up and. there was like a momentum thing, there's. a bunch of things. You have to have. talent, you have to have. uh smarts, you have to have work ethic, you have to have all that to get to that. moment. And then. and then you want to be able to. show up for that moment. But then that. moment can overwhelm you. So you do have. to find a dance and you do have to be.

aware of of like. of what makes you happy, you know, you have to be aware of. yourself and you have to be able to. take a knee. here and there so that you don't burn. out and just completely implode and. um become. uh bitter or become so. passive-aggressive because you don't. feel like you have a choice or become um. a shell of a person because you've just. given everything to the world and um and.

so I think the. the that's the complicated nature of of. fame, success, and all of that wrapped. up, right? So. in your 20s, I think. this is the good part about it happening. in your 20s. You're kind of naive. >> Yeah, and I feel like more more. resilient in a way. >> in that way cuz. >> I don't know. It just doesn't sink in. >> Now, there's more novelty in your 20s. In your 40s, there's less novelty. >> Right. >> So. you know, it's all novel in your 20s.

You you've you you haven't seen. anything. >> Right. >> And especially us, we were from nowhere. So we had never been on a plane till we. were 19. So we were like everything was. amazing. >> Yeah. >> Um. and so. the there's a bit of a drug in that. where. you'll go anywhere and do anything. because you've never been to Australia, you've never been to Japan, you've never. been to Europe. You've never been So, there you're you're prime to go and work. and take over the world. And we ran. through, you know, from the day we.

started the band at 15 to. probably 31 and 32, we just ran. Nonstop. We would come home for 2. months, make a record, go right back. out. And like. But then right around the, you know, um. when I had my kids, I was 29, 30. And um. that was the first time where I was. like, "Whoa, I don't have. Nicole and the kids and stuff." That was. the first time where I was like, "Oh, like maybe the this feels more important.

than that." And then then I stopped and. started kind of reflecting on like, "What are we doing? How do we work?" All. that. But in our 20s, I think we were. just so focused. when 2002, when the record hit, um. we knew it you know, we could feel it. But if you ask me to recall some. memories, >> [laughter]. >> I don't think I could. >> Yeah, like just even like where was your. mental health in that that era? Were you. >> [clears throat]. >> Not good? Just literally Did you ever.

deal with addiction issues or alcoholism. or any of that? Cuz I feel like I've. never seen any of that in the headlines. >> had an addiction thing. I had a. a very complicated kind of. uh. like. strange relationship with alcohol. because it was And and cuz it was so. it had destroyed my family and the. extended family and and I've seen so.

much bad that I I never did I never had. I never like I never did cocaine. I. never did. any cuz they terrified me cuz I've seen. so many people in my life growing up. that had in some way, shape, or form. ruined in life from. cocaine, heroin, obviously late in the 90s Oxycontin. started in the 2000s. All that stuff I. stayed away from it cuz it was like I. saw it first hand and it always was like. so familiar and so bad. Um.

>> Right. >> I was lucky in that way. >> Yeah, cuz some people go one way and. some people go the other when they've. been exposed to as much as you have. >> Yeah, so. alcohol was something that I probably. abused. in some ways without knowing it because. I think I was medicating like some deep. uh PTSD, trauma, depression, that kind. of stuff. So.

I found that out later because when I. started working on myself any want or. need or. because I never went out like oh I'm. going to drink but then I'd find myself. in some moments like. like how did I get here? How did I get. blacked out like. >> like that happened in the 2000s a lot. >> Yeah, so. >> [laughter]. >> but there [clears throat] was a lot of. pain that was masked and and you didn't. know how to. unpack it. >> Yes, absolutely. >> Um. and then in my 30s I I I did that work. and and now I can say like I don't drink.

and I have not drink but I don't drink. >> Yeah. >> So it's not that I. keep myself from drinking I just don't. have a I think I'm just like in my body. >> Yeah. >> So I don't like feeling out of my body. >> Mhm, I don't like it either. Now that. I'm sober I can't I can't do it. >> And I think part of why we drink and use. drugs is to get out of our body because. we you know so I think there's a big. thing with that. I think if it's painful. to be in yourself you want to be out of. yourself and so I think. um.

it's a in my adult life that's not. something I relate to but in my 20s I. think uh. I always had to go a. a conflicted relationship with alcohol. cuz of my dad so. I'm always something I. was. never really comfortable with, but. found sometimes of course I. >> Do you ever laugh at the fact that the. song. um criticizing fame is the one that gave. it to you? >> Um no, because if you listen to the song. we are saying kind of give it to me.

>> Right. >> [laughter]. >> I want it. >> Yeah. >> You know, explicitly saying like let's rob them, but. >> [laughter]. >> but really saying like if it's so bad, right? Um. a naive a naive view, but it was honest. >> Right. >> Um. I realize now fame isn't real. It's um. it's a byproduct of uh. of uh lots of things. Uh you can.

manufacture fame, you can buy fame, you can uh uh fame is not something that. I think is valuable, >> Mhm. >> but I think it's I think it's something. you have to. um. >> It's a necessary evil for depending on. what you are trying to do. >> I think it's something that you have to. manage. And I think that it's. when. it's Yeah, it's it's it's it's it's it's. un- it's not even like I don't even say.

like unfortunately, it's something that. comes with achieving. um. things. >> Mhm. >> And so you but in the modern world. everyone's famous, so you can have you. can So then then you start to kind of. look at like, well, what kind of fame do. you want to have? >> Right. >> Right? You could be like. >> Yeah, you could be uh um uh uh. There are internet personalities that um.

make fame for themselves by pissing. people off. >> Yeah. >> There's people who make fame for. themselves by. uh degrading themselves. There's the and. it's all a choice. I I I've come to like. a more like surgical. feeling towards it. Like um. you can choose it. And you can also choose. to. um. avoid it sometimes. >> Yes. >> And so I think.

I always tell my kids, I'm like, "If you. trust me, you don't want to be known. for. um. uh. don't be so in a rush to be known. >> Yeah. >> Like you will be happy if you're known. for doing something you love. >> Yeah. >> It's so much more sustainable and. enjoyable when you're doing something. you love. You can deal with the fame. once it gets old cuz it gets old. And. you they always say like you think you. want to be rich and famous, try getting.

rich first. Like it's really true. Like. but fame is this novel the experience of. like, "Oh my god, you know who I am.". That's a that's a real everyone who's. interested in that feeling, go for it. I'm not saying no but like it'll get old. and then you'll be navigating it and. you'll be managing it and it and it and. and it turns on everyone. But um it's a. double-edged sword. >> Yes. That's so real that it turns on. everyone. I'm going to use that from now. on. I'm stealing it from you. >> And it is just what it's the nature,

right? It's just the nature. So to sit. here and. and feel one way or another about it is. is a is a is a is a lost cause. It's. unproductive. >> Yeah. >> Uh but to acknowledge that it's a thing. and that there are moments where it can. uh be useful or it can. you can shine a light on something. that's you've you're passionate about or. you can help people. Sure. >> Yeah. >> But these days anyone can help. If you. get a a a GoFundMe trending on Twitter,

you can help people and you'll get a. little famous. So, there it kind of like. this. abstraction that is not to me like. um. it's we have to update what we call. fame. >> Yeah. >> Because the old idea of fame is like. from the '80s. Like, he can't go. anywhere. No one can go anywhere. >> Yeah. >> If you do some [ __ ] there in the world, someone's going to film you, and you'll. be famous. >> Yeah. >> Or you'll you'll like this the world we. live in. So, I think we have to update.

how we look at fame. >> Mhm. >> And is it good or bad? Uh it's both. Uh. it it it in any given day, you know? And. I also think that like. it's just an antiquated idea that like. like. all of it's kind of like. But, I would say this, I'll bet you any. amount of money that like. uh. if Jelly Roll. wants to go out to. >> [laughter]. >> a restaurant.

>> Yeah. >> he's got a measure the cost. >> Mhm. >> So, what's the cost? Well, if I'm. feeling like um tired, I've been going. for weeks, I uh I give a lot when people. talk to me, I I listen, and like there's. different levels of what you give. Some. people don't. Some people don't listen. Some people are but it's different, you. know? So, it depends on how you how you. move through the world and what you want. to give. And and. and so you have to measure like what's. that going to cost me if I go if I just.

want to go to that restaurant. Well, I'm. probably going to have to talk to every. person. >> [laughter]. >> That's not bad. >> Right. >> Like, we say it it sounds bad. It's not. bad. It's just real. >> don't think it sounds bad. >> So, I I look at it more just like real. >> Yeah. >> um. um and. >> dropping gems of wisdom here, and I. really think that a lot of people need. to hear what you have to say because. it's honestly refreshing to hear, especially in a world that chases. nothing but clout. Um to hear your. perspective on it is. I like it.

>> Well, I I feel like I just am a normal. guy. >> Mhm. >> who found himself in a an an an abnormal. place and I observe everyone and I don't. really have an opinion on how anyone. should live other than like. how they live and. what what they decide and um. I just feel like. uh it's it's a funny place to be, right? Like. I'm surrounded by people who who have.

all different levels of successes. and. um. I've gotten to observe a lot of stuff. and um. and I feel like. I've learned at this age um. just how to be myself. And um. I try to just be honest and say what I. think. And um and and I think the world needs. to define things all the time and as. good or bad or this or that and I think.

fame is a funny one because. like if we re-calibrated. what we consider fame. um. everyone's famous. >> Yeah, absolutely. What is it like having. Lionel Richie as a father-in-law? Cuz I. am a huge Lionel Richie fan. >> Yeah, I am too. Everyone's a everyone's. a huge Lionel fan. Um [laughter]. >> How can you not be, you know? >> What a what a what an incredible. um. force of of nature.

>> Yeah. >> Lionel is. >> Mhm. >> Um. yeah, I mean. to be his son-in-law is one thing cuz. there's a real person there. who's got a lot of wisdom and a lot of. experience and a lot of um. I he's just unique. I've never met. anyone like him. And the fact that we're. we we have a really nice relationship. So, um but then he's also like this. legend and he again like another person.

he's. he can't go in the world anywhere. without everyone. It You very rarely you see those. phenomenon type like I feel very lucky. cuz I get to move through the world a a. lot. >> Yeah. >> Once or twice a day someone comes up to. me and is like and it's more like. they relate to me from another time. So, it's actually very. for me very comfortable. >> Yeah. >> Um I don't need to feel relevant. to to the modern culture. I don't need.

to feel relevant. I feel very like happy. to have had that experience, but now to. exist in a place where I get to um. have like a. a lot of normality. You know, I can move. through the world and it's it's pretty. easy. Um. but I see Lionel and he's he he. everywhere he goes he he's. it's everyone loves him and and he's. that guy. He loves he he gives he gives. and gives and gives. So, sometimes I.

feel bad for him. Um I think he's been doing it so long. he's. um. it's all he knows and I think that he's. got such a legacy and it's such an an an. overwhelmingly kind of. the size of it is so big that I think I. mostly just kind of always worry about. people that are living under the. um. pressure of that, you know, and. especially my family, you know, someone.

in my family. I I would say the same. thing about Cameron. I like see what. she's. you know, she she definitely has figured. out a way to move through the world, but. she can't go anywhere without everyone. going, "Oh my god, that's Cameron." You. know, and um. so there's the privacy is hard and. privacy is such a wonderful thing. >> Yeah, it's it's. it's a treasure. >> Yeah, to be somewhere and not have any eyes on. you and to be. >> That's why we're getting a house out. here cuz in Nashville we can't go. anywhere, but out here we move around no.

problem. >> Right, it's easier for you guys to move. around. >> So much easier out here. So, I couldn't. even imagine how we're nowhere near. Lionel's legendary status, so I couldn't. imagine how that poor man has to move. >> Well, I would actually say that I think. um. I I would say I think that Jelly Roll is. about as big as you can get right now. >> [laughter]. >> Well, I'm married to the guy, so I don't. think he's that cool. No, I'm just. kidding. I'm totally kidding.

>> [laughter]. >> journey. >> Yeah. >> And it kind of expands like that when. you're on the whole thing and you may. not eat sometimes you may not be aware. of how how big it is sometimes, but um. but but I would say with with Lionel I. see him and he handles it with with. class and he's super graceful and he's. very generous with people. Um but I I. think um. you know, in the quiet moments.

uh when we spend time together it's at. home. So, I do feel like I get to. >> Is he like the dad you never had? >> Um. you know, in some ways. it's interesting. I always felt like I couldn't have a. dad. So, I don't know if I had let anyone be. my dad. >> Mhm. >> But he is the only dad I have. >> Right. >> Um and uh rest in peace to my my my dad. who.

um. we had a we we had a really nice. relationship when he passed away and I. do feel like. when he. when he died. the last uh it's been 7 years. It'll be. 7 years in March. Um. I've been closer to him than I ever was. Like it's so it's interesting like. spiritually it's actually made me I feel. like a more spiritual person cuz I do. feel like deeply connected to my my dad.

Um but Lionel is my only dad. >> Earthbound dad. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> Um. but there are other. there are a couple other men. that. um. are like father figures to me. >> That's amazing. >> And I would say I'm really lucky I have. a couple. Um. my brother-in-law his dad um. there's a couple guys who I who I who. who I love deeply. >> Mhm. >> and have been incredibly supportive and.

um. I feel very very lucky uh to uh to have. them in my life. But Lionel's yeah. Lionel is is all. he has been. He's been the dad um. he's been a lot of ways and um. I think. uh I'm lucky to have him as a. dad-in-law. I've heard horror stories. about father-in-laws. >> Yeah. >> And it's not been that with him. He's. From day one he was a he he he was like. just wrapped me up. uh always supported me always loved me.

and um. we have a really nice relationship. >> Good. >> We have a friendship. >> So let's talk about you and Benji's. relationship. I I heard you say in a uh. in an interview that he's kind of like. the leader of you two. >> Yeah. >> How do you guys establish that? >> I think it's natural. >> Yeah. >> I think I'm more like. um. I'm I'm it's not that I'm more friendly. but I am a little bit more like. searching out and he's a little bit more. like building.

>> Mhm. >> things. He likes to stay in one place. and like build up build the thing we're. working on. >> Mhm. >> If if that makes sense. >> What What are you guys' similarities and. what are you What are you guys opposite. in? Are you guys more alike in ways or. you guys more opposite in ways? >> I am I mean, we're alike a lot, especially if you saw us together. We're. twins, but um. and I do think that we both have the. same values like. both been married a long time, both. >> Yeah. >> super focused on that.

>> You guys both married Virgo women, too. >> Virgo. >> Which is soulmate signs to Pisces. >> Yeah. >> So. >> It's very Virgo, by the way. Like. [laughter]. Virgo wasn't a word to me until I. married Nicole and now it's like such an. important word. Um. You know how someone's a Virgo? >> best. >> You know how you know someone's a Virgo? >> How? >> They tell you every [ __ ]. >> Yeah. >> [laughter]. >> Uh. day. Um. Uh but. So, we're very similar in that way. I'd. say he is more of a builder.

>> Mhm. >> And I'm a little bit more like a. dreamer. >> Yeah. >> And together we kind of work like we. lock in. >> Yeah, that's the perfect combination. though to have, especially as twins and. that have the same passion in building. this. >> Yeah. >> band and everything together. So, yeah. No, I admire you guys' relationship as. well. And I'm going to ask you one more. question. If everything disappeared. tomorrow, fame, money, and legacy, who. would Joel Madden still be? >> Easy. Would have no problem. >> Yeah.

>> I would just be a dad and. a husband. and um. a brother. and a friend. And I'd be super I'd be fine. >> I love that. >> I I I I have no problem. I I can get a. job tomorrow doing anything um. that I literally anything I have to do. to take care of my family. Um I'm lucky I get to do what I love, but I don't I'm not precious about it. Um I think it's been incredibly.

uh it's been an incredible blessing to. do music for a living. It's easy job. It. has its moments. There's silliness you got to deal with. sometimes, but. and I care about the songs. I want to, you know, artistically I. want to have a legacy, but if. if it got thrown away, if it got taken, I don't care. I care about my kids. I I care about my. wife. I care about my friends. I care. about actually just being happy and like.

I could go fishing or I could have a cup. of coffee or I could go um. you know, move to a the middle of. nowhere and be happy. if I have to. I'm going to do this as. long as I can because I believe we're. supposed to work as hard as we can with. like. the opportunities we have. We should try. and I think we should try to do the best. we can, but like if you told me. I'm taking it all and you've got to go.

uh be nobody, I'd be. totally fine. I'd be happy to be nobody. So, uh whatever nobody means. I'm just. saying like I think um. I do value this stuff. I respect it, but I actually just care about being. you know, someone that my my family, my friends, and people that I meet every day like. real people that if we're at a. restaurant or a coffee shop or wherever. I'm at uh respect.

uh when they meet. >> Yes. >> So, I'm not up against some I I I don't feel. like I'm up against anything. I just I. want to work the best I can. I want to. do the best I can, but I don't care. I. really don't. I I care about it to in. the sense of wanting to achieve, but. like if you said it's all gone tomorrow, I'd be fine. >> I think you've built quite the legacy. and I think everything's going to be. just fine and I'm so proud of your. growth and just getting to sit here and.

talk with you has been really amazing. >> It's I'm such a fan of of of of you. guys. >> Thank you. >> are such a. Um that's why I came. >> Thank you. >> think that seeing a couple. two [snorts] people building a life, building a family, building um. you know, and finding themselves and. working on themselves. You guys are very. open about it, which I think is really. good. Sets an example for people, and I. think we all come from similar places,

and. it we all make mistakes. We all have. like or call it whatever you want. Like. it's just real. And I think that like it's a beautiful. thing, and I'm really I've I've I've. always been rooting for you guys. >> Thank you. >> And I just I'm really proud of you guys. I think that it takes a lot of work. >> Yeah. You know, if anybody knows, it's. you. I mean, you guys you've been with. your wife for how long and just the. journey that you guys have had to do. together, so. >> show up. >> No, we appreciate the kind words, too.

Like we we appreciate having people on. our side, so. >> Yeah, I I'm such a fan. I just I'm I'm. always rooting for you guys, and I'm. always happy. >> What's that? >> to get Jay on your podcast. He does. everybody else's podcast, so. >> what? It [laughter] says it's a. >> I always bust his balls, too. >> It's an open door. It's an open door. It. always happens when it's meant to. happen. It's an open door. I will love. that, but also like it'll happen. >> No, he's a actually it's so funny cuz. he's so in tune with everything that I. don't think he's in tune with, but he's. like, "Who's coming on the podcast.

today?" And I was like, "Joel." And he's. like, "Oh, yeah, he's like the one with. Artist Friendly and Good Charlotte.". He's like, "Guideliner." And I was like, "Yeah.". >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> So, he loves you, too, and we support. you guys. Yay, I love that. Well, we'll. get you guys together because you guys. have to meet for sure. >> Well, when you guys move out here, >> Yeah. >> tell us. >> Okay. >> We'll have dinner. >> Awesome. >> date. >> Yeah, that'll be fun. Yeah, that'll be. awesome. Joel, thank you for coming on. the podcast. I appreciate you. Thank you. guys for tuning in to another episode of. Dumb Blonde. I'll see you guys next. week. Bye.

>> [music].