Who Knew Brittany McGlone Was There That Night?

Hi Crime Junkies, I'm your host Ashley. Flowers. >> And I'm Brit. The story I have for you. today takes place in small town. Winnsboro, Texas, where everybody knows. everybody, or at least they think they. do. You know who's trouble, you know. who's got a temper, who to tell your. teen daughter to stay away from. So when a 19-year-old is found dead in. her boyfriend's bed, it doesn't feel. random. You can practically hear the. gossip at the gas pump, the church. parking lot, echoing through the. checkout line. There are men with.

motive, men with violent past, men the. town already talk about. But here's the. thing that I'm hung up on. Only a. handful of them even knew where she. would be that day. And when the circle. is that small, someone inside knows. exactly what happened. This is the story. of Brittany McGlone. It's mid-afternoon on May 4th, 2007,

when mom Patricia gets a call from her. daughter's boyfriend, Jeff Stogner. And. that alone is kind of strange, because. Patricia's not exactly Jeff's biggest. fan. So they've never been like on. casual calling terms. But she answers. anyway to a concerned Jeff asking, "Have. you heard from Brittany?" And Patricia's. like, "What do you mean have I heard. from her? She's supposed to be staying. with you." But he's saying that he left. early that morning to pick up his. grandma a couple of hours away, and. every time he tried to reach Brittany,

she hadn't been picking up her cell. Whatever is happening feels wrong to. Patricia. So they hang up and she tries. Brittany's cell over and over, but she's. not answering for mom either. So she. ends up calling Jeff back, and as she. does, it sounds like he's pulling up to. his house. And he gives her the last. moment of relief she may ever have, cuz. he says, "Never mind, her truck is still. outside the house, she must just. sleeping really hard. >> And this is at what time? This is like.

3:30 in the afternoon. >> Oh. But Brittany just had worked an. overnight shift at the Lowe's. distribution center. So, like normally. when she gets off sometime before like. 5:00 a.m., she would like go home, shower, sleep, maybe see Jeff later. But. this day was different. So, instead of. going home first, she went straight to. Jeff so that they could hang out a. little bit before he had to go pick up. his grandma. So, it seems like it would. be normal for her to like sleep in. So, yeah, cuz she worked overnight. I. guess why is he calling her mom so soon. then? Well, so yes, normal for her to.

sleep in because she could have used the. extra sleep, but she rarely got it. So, in addition to her overnight job, she. also had one at this place called Alco, which is a discount store. And she was. doing both jobs because she planned to. save up money for nursing school. So, again, could have used the sleep, but it. was pretty unlike her to be asleep like. that all day, which it seems is maybe. what made Jeff concerned enough to call. her mom to begin with. And it turns out. he had every right to be concerned.

Because when Jeff walks into his. bedroom, Brittany is still in his bed. where he says he left her. But she is. not sleeping. Brittany is completely naked, and there. is blood. everywhere. On the sheets, on the. pillow, cast off on the wall behind the. bed. Like the kind of pattern you would. see when someone is struck over and over. again. But the thing is, whatever she. had been beaten with, something that. they later determined to possibly be. like a tire iron or a crowbar type.

thing, that isn't around anywhere. In. fact, nothing other than Brittany's. seems out of place. Her jeans and boots. are still right there on the floor where. she left them when she changed out of. her work clothes earlier that morning. Now, interestingly, Jeff says that she. was wearing a T-shirt and underwear when. she hopped into bed with him. The shirt. not on her, but still there. But, the underwear she had on, that's gone. And here's the thing that really stands.

out to Wood County Sheriff's deputies. once they arrive. In the bathroom, there. are signs that the killer took a shower. Oh, that's kind of like someone who was. comfortable there. >> My thoughts exactly. Everything so far. points to this being close and personal. Someone who could keep composed enough. to clean themselves up while Britney lay. bludgeoned to death in that bed. In that. bed, in her boyfriend's bed, the one. night she broke her routine and went.

there instead of home. And that part is. really important. Like you said, this. wasn't routine for Britney. I told you. she would normally go to her house. first. And apparently, Jeff's mom didn't. like her very much either. Britney. wasn't close with the family. She and. Jeff had only been dating like 6 months, and they'd been on and off in that time. So, to Britney's mom, Patricia, it sort. of felt like too much of a coincidence. Like, okay, the one time that Britney. does this,

this happens. So, who all knew that she. was going to be there? Well, I mean, it. sounds like Jeff and his family would. have been some of the only few people. privy to her plan to crash there. But, here's the thing. This wasn't. Jeff's own personal pad. I mean, he's 21. at the time, still living at home with. mom, stepdad, and younger brother and. sister. And this is a small one-story. home. Now, that morning, brother went to. school, sister had stayed over with her. boyfriend, so she's not there, and I.

guess she just went straight to school. from his place, and stepdad drops mom. off at work, but he's back at like 7:45. or so. And then, he, Jeff, and Britney. are all there until stepdad and Jeff. leave together to go to grandma's at. around 9:00 a.m. So, when they arrive. back home that afternoon, and Jeff makes. this horrific discovery. Supposedly, stepdad is just right around. the corner, close enough to hear him. yell. But here's where something caught my. attention. Wood County 911.

What's the problem right now? What's. exactly? >> his girlfriend's dead in the bed. She's dead? Yes. Okay. It looks like somebody come in and hit. her in the head with something. Mhm, that sure doesn't sound like Jeff. or his stepdad. >> Yeah, cuz it's Jeff's mom. Well, isn't. she supposed to be at work? She was, but. somehow around the same time Jeff and. stepdad are finding Britney, Jeff's mom. is either already back home and just. like didn't like notice Britney, maybe. she didn't go in the room, or she just.

so happens to show up like at the same. time they did to call 911. And if that's. the case, the timing is kind of wild. because I don't think she normally got. off work early enough to be there at. 3:30. But apparently on this day, she. wanted to leave early because she needed. to clean the house before Grandma got. back. Again, they're going to pick up. Grandma, Grandma's coming over for a. visit. And I don't know, this could be. absolutely nothing. There's just nothing. in the reports that explains when mom. got there, how she ended up getting home. because she would have needed a ride.

>> Right, cuz stepdad dropped her off. >> They only had one car. I know our. reporter Madison wanted to ask all of. these questions, but Jeff's mom and. stepdad have both since passed away. since 2007. In old police reports. though, stepdad does vouch for Jeff. They were together the whole ride to and. from Grandma's. So, if Jeff did. something, that really only leaves the. short time they were like home alone. when his mom was getting dropped off at. work. >> Right, well, not even that because his.

stepdad vouches for him there, too. He. says that he saw Britney for himself. sleeping, but definitely still alive and. well before they leave at 9:00 like. after he comes back from dropping mom. off. And apparently they have to. actually like pass through Jeff's. bedroom on the way out the door. >> But are we are we buying stepdad's. story? Like he could be covering for. Jeff. Say something happened, Jeff comes. to him for help. They make up this whole. road trip thing to throw off suspicion.

That would explain more of why. Jeff started calling her mom. Like. they're trying to establish this alibi. >> sound This is the thing. It sounds like. the road trip was planned all along. Like it's the whole reason why Britney. was even sleeping there to begin with. because they knew that he was going to. have to go get grandma. So they wanted. to hang out a bit before that. So if. you're going to theorize that the road. trip was a staged alibi, that has like. far-reaching implications. >> much bigger than that. >> Right. So before we get carried away.

with kind of I think far-fetched. theories, first things first. Detectives. need to verify Jeff and his stepdad's. shared story. Was this trip to get. grandma even real? Now the story was. that they stopped at a convenience store. along the way, picked up grandma, and. then they made their way back home to. Windsboro. So investigators checked that. route. They pulled surveillance footage. from their stop, and the timestamps line. up. Everything checks out according to.

detectives. That feels like too simple. Well, it's just one piece. I mean this. rules out the possibility that they were. lying about the trip, but there's still. a possibility that something happened to. Britney before they left. And how is. Jeff reacting to all of this? Like when. the deputy show up and during all of the. aftermath? Devastated. I mean. distraught. I guess how you would. expect. But they still took him down to. the sheriff's office and went in on him. because according to Britney's family,

there's real motive there. You see, we've talked to a lot of families of the. murdered. And usually when a cop shows. up at their door telling them that their. loved one is dead, most of the time. their first thought is like some sort of. accident, right? Like because that is. just so much more likely. >> Right, like a car crash or something. >> Right, but that was not Patricia's first. thought. She told Madison that the. deputies who showed up would only tell. her that her daughter was deceased at.

first. They would not tell her how or. when, like zero details. But she was sure that her daughter had. been murdered. And her immediate. suspicion was her boyfriend, Jeff. So, what's the history there? It's not deep, but Patricia told us that. Jeff was just like on a completely. different path than Britney. Not as. responsible, no stable job. And like the. way she describes it, she thought he was.

kind of dark, like emo vibes, but not in. like the cute boy band kind of way. So, she actually discouraged Britney from. dating him. But even more than that, I. mean it's the timing of it all. You see, Britney and Jeff had just gotten back. together. According to Britney's mom, Jeff was Britney's first love, her first. of a lot of things, but they had been. broken up the month before and during. that time, Britney ended up sleeping. with another guy. Britney actually told Jeff about it, so.

it's not like he found out from some. other place, but people had wondered if. maybe like that could have been the. thing behind this. Though when. detectives asked Jeff about this, he tells them absolutely not. They were. broken up when this happened. It was. like fair game. Britney did nothing. wrong. >> Was there any abuse in the relationship? >> No. No abuse that her family ever knew. of. So, then what? The thinking is that. he had sex with her like one more time. and then made sure no one else could?

Well, this definitely not that actually. because Jeff told police that they. didn't sleep together when she came over. that morning. Which like I'm sure. investigators probably find a little. hard to believe or maybe they like. believe that they didn't have sex right. away when she came over, but they do. think that this crime is sexually. motivated. I mean, Britney is naked, her. underwear is missing. >> Yeah. They're probably pretty confident. that they're going to be able to tie. someone, Jeff or otherwise, to this. crime through forensics. And honestly, him saying that they didn't have sex is.

great for detectives because if they do. find DNA, like he has taken away any. excuse for his to be there, right? But. Britt, they get the shock of their lives when. an autopsy is done, lab tests are run, and there is no semen found. The sheriff. told us, according to the medical. examiner, Britney actually was not. sexually assaulted after all. So, maybe. Jeff's telling the truth. Well, they. wanted to put that to the test,

literally, and polygraph both Jeff and. his stepdad. They couldn't do it right. away though because. Winsboro, this is out in the country. kind of, so they're going to have to. bring in a polygrapher from another. city. That's going to take a minute. So, in the meantime, they do what they can. to go down other paths, like checking. out this guy that Britney has supposedly. slept with, right? This like in a month. ago or whatever. Now, the guy. cooperates, he sits down with them and. says the same thing as everyone else. Their hookup was just this like one-time. thing. They've been drinking, no hard.

feelings, like it didn't become more. And that's it, they cross him off the. list. I mean, let's go back to the fact. that hardly anyone knew that she would. be over at that house. Like, who who are. those people again? That's like Jeff, his family, like I guess her mom, but. like who else? Well, that was one of the. questions they first asked Jeff. And. Jeff brings up this guy named Cody. He. admits that Cody is his weed guy, and he. says that morning before he left, he'd. put cash under this garden gnome outside. their house. This was like their little.

system. Leave the money there, Cody. would swing by later, drop off the weed. Except, he says this day was different. because by the time Jeff got back that. afternoon, the money was gone, but there. was no marijuana. So, detectives go and. track this Cody guy down, and his story. complicates things. Yes, he admits that. he sold weed to Jeff, but he says he. didn't that day. He says that Jeff was like blowing up. his phone, texting him, like, "Did you. drop it off yet, dude? Like, did you go.

by the house?" And Cody admits he like. got annoyed, so he just texted back, "Yes." But, he says he didn't actually. go over to the house. So, either Jeff's. telling the truth and he left the money, Cody went there and took it, putting him. at the scene, which means he's lying. about being there. >> Mhm. Or Jeff could be lying when he says. the money got picked up because he's. trying to place someone else there. Or option C, whoever else in this small. circle of people who knew Britney was. there alone.

maybe also knew about this garden gnome. arrangement. Now, within about a week. after Britney's murder, her family and. friends gather for her funeral. And if you've ever been to a small town. funeral, you know how they feel. The. whole place shows up. People you haven't. seen in years, people you barely know, people whispering about who may have. done it. >> And probably people you don't even want. to be there. >> Uh-huh. And although detectives seem to.

be moving farther and farther from Jeff. the more they dissect his alibi, Britney's family makes it clear. Jeff. and his family are not welcome. Emotions. are high. Nobody knows what happened. yet. All the trust is thin for good. reason. But them showing up anyway isn't. actually the only drama that sticks with. Britney's sister Hope at the funeral. because there somebody else shows up. Someone she actually might be more.

concerned about in this moment. And that. is their grandfather, James McGlone. Now this isn't their grandfather by. blood. It's their dad's adopted father. And Hope told us that at one point he. walks up next to her, like puts his arm. around her, and says, "Have you gone to see the body. yet?" And she froze because this wasn't. just a grieving grandpa asking an. awkward question. See, no matter how. many people are there at the funeral,

she knows something that no one else. does yet. A secret that Britney had been. keeping that was big enough to be motive. for murder. Quiet coastal towns may seem peaceful, but they can harbor dark secrets. I'm. Kylie Low, host of Dark Down East, a. podcast that tells true crime stories. from my own New England community to. help victims and families get justice.

Listen to Dark Down East wherever you. get your podcasts. Britney had confided in her sister Hope. before she died that their grandfather. had been sexually abusing her. This went on from the time she was young. up until fairly recently. It was. devastating for Hope to hear, but at the. time she didn't push Britney for more. details. And trying to be a loyal. younger sister, Hope hadn't told anyone.

right away. She wanted to leave that up. to Britney to do when she was ready. But now that Britney's not there to. speak for herself, now that grandpa is. over here talking about the body like it. doesn't belong to someone she loves, Hope felt compelled to come forward. thinking that there might be a chance. that he had something to do with what. happened to Brittany and she was right. to do so because other family members. were able to fill in more of the blanks. and it comes out that Brittany had told. her aunt about how grandpa would make.

her feel uncomfortable like he would. show up at her work and stuff and it. seemed to be getting worse once she. started dating Jeff. >> Like he was triggered by her having like. her first real boyfriend? That or like. now that she was getting older now that. she has a boyfriend maybe he was worried. that Brittany was going to start telling. people what he'd been doing. I mean we. know now she already was. >> if he'd been showing up at her work and. stuff. do we think he may have been.

following her too? So here's the wild. part. James McGlone actually lives in. the same community as Jeff like right. across the lake. So maybe he didn't know. Brittany was going to spend the night. that night. >> But he could have easily seen that her. truck was there. And seen that everyone. else had left. When this revelation makes it to. investigators they find out that even. Jeff knew about the grandfather's abuse. Apparently Brittany had confided in him.

too. >> So grandpa's biggest fear is becoming a. reality. >> Yeah. Now the question is did he know. that or not or did he think that she. still held his secret and getting rid of. her might make it go away. I mean you. want to talk about motive this is. motive. So they check grandpa out and. pretty quickly they come to one. conclusion. He couldn't have killed. Brittany. I guess time card showed that. from 7:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. on the day. she was murdered he was at work. Now.

James ended up dying in 2009 but. detectives feel pretty confident that he. didn't commit this crime murder against. Brittany. But the whole ordeal coming to. light so suddenly made the family. realize that Britney may have been. surrounded by more than just one person. capable of pure evil. That's a hard pill. for them to swallow. And the mystery. only deepens once polygraphs are. administered. Weed guy, Cody?

Pass. Jeff's stepdad? Pass. Jeff? They say he passes with flying colors. So, what now? Police are probably shocked. and a lot stumped. I mean, I know. polygraphs aren't perfect, but these, combined with other verification that. they've been able to do with people's. alibis, it really is looking like none of these. people were involved. So, detectives go. back. What had they missed? Who had they.

missed? And it turns out there was just. one more person. Someone easy to gloss over because his. role in Britney's life seemed so. insignificant and almost non-existent. But he was the only other person that. for a fact knew Britney was in the home. alone that day. Someone who was close. enough to the family to know that there. might be money under the garden gnome. And his name is Chad Carr. I mentioned that Jeff had two younger.

siblings, a brother and a sister. Well, his sister, Velva, is dating Chad. And. included in the original timeline that. Jeff gave deputies of the day that. Britney was murdered, he mentions that. around 8:30 in the morning or so, as him. and his stepdad are fixing up their car. to leave, Chad stopped by to pick. something up for Velva. And the. interaction they have is like pretty. brief. Like, he didn't even go into the. house. They actually told him not to. because Britney was there sleeping. So, he gets what he needs from them and.

leaves. Oh, why isn't he also at school. at 8:30 in the morning? Oh, because Chad. is a grown ass man. He isn't in school. anymore. He's 25 years old at the time. dating Jeff's high school sister. >> I'm sorry, absolutely not. >> To make it even worse, people we spoke. to told us that it wasn't just her age. She also may have been mentally. vulnerable, too. So, Chad wasn't there when they left the. house. And like I said, he has almost no. connection to Brittany other than the. fact that they're like dating siblings.

They don't even really hang out and. there's no beef between them. Like, there were people with far more motive. But now, they're realizing that maybe. he's the only person who checks a lot of. most of all of the boxes. >> did he have a key to the house? He. didn't. And like there was no forced entry, but. he would have known that the family. didn't usually lock their doors out. there in the country where they live. So, now that they're looking at Chad in. a new light, they're going back through. every page of the file that they have.

Did we like miss anything else? Like, does he show up anywhere else? And they do find this one report that. stands out. It's from a deputy who was. there on scene right after they had. found Brittany. And sometime after. school, Velva and Chad show back up at. the house. And Chad is acting. straight-up weird. He is shaking. He's. visibly nervous. He's all fidgety. So. nervous that Velva actually tells him to. chill out, that the deputy's a nice guy. And maybe they chalk it up to the stress.

of the situation. Like, this is a. situation most people don't find. themselves in. So, they didn't do. anything with it at the time. But now, now they want to have another. conversation with this Chad guy. He's. reluctant to comply at first. But when. he does, he gives detectives a. play-by-play of his entire day. Like, he's extremely detailed about every stop. that he made. Almost like he's trying to. establish an alibi before anyone even.

asks him for one. And here's what Chad. lays out. He says that after he stopped. by the family's house that morning, he. drove to Alcoa where his aunt works and. she asked him to pick up breakfast for. her at Sonic. But instead of going. straight there, he says that he went. home first to change clothes for what. law enforcement later remember as being. like some weather related reason. Like. maybe it was like too hot or something. Then he goes to Sonic. Then he goes back. to Alcoa to drop off the food. And then. after that, he says he arrives 15.

minutes early to his 10:00 eye. appointment. And then he left the. doctor's at around 11:40 or so. From. there, he picks up Velva from school at. 11:55. They go to the bank, they go to. lunch, and then after lunch Chad and. Velva go back to the eye doctor's at. 1:30. Why did they go back? I don't. know. It's probably It's not in the. report so we say I'm I'm assuming to. like pick up a prescription or glasses. or something. Whatever. But after the eye doctor, they go to the. insurance office and then a flower shop, then another store, back to Alcoa. >> That's a lot of stops. I know. And then.

finally, that is when Chad and Velva end. up at the crime scene shortly after law. enforcement. So let's call that. somewhere between like 3:30 and. 4:00-ish. >> Okay. And when investigators start trying to. verify his timeline, it does check out. Sort of. So Chad did go to his eye. doctor appointment that was scheduled. for 10:00 a.m. However, he's saying he got there early. But according to two staff members, Chad. actually showed up late at 10:20. And. they remember this clearly because he.

even called to give them a heads up that. he was going to be late. Said that he. was having car trouble or something, which like. weird. I don't think he mentioned any. car trouble to detectives. Well, like. maybe he was just like using excuse at. the doctor's office like to like make up. for the like, you know, just to get out. of it, you know. >> Sure. But then why was he really late if he. didn't have car trouble? Great question. And remember how Chad. said that he went home and changed his. clothes that morning cuz it was like too. hot, whatever.

>> hot. Well, sure. Maybe that was the. reason, but we pulled the weather. reports and it was fairly mild for Texas. that May morning. High 60s, low 70s. So, detectives told us that they found that. excuse for why he might have been in. different clothes when people saw him. And when he showed up on surveillance. footage, weak. And they know Britney wasn't just. killed, right? She was beaten to death. in a small room. Chances are that her. killer was covered in her blood. Like,

you can't be walking around like that. And don't forget, one of the earliest. flags to detectives was that the shower. in the house appeared to have been used. >> Right. And as they keep digging into. Chad's story, they realize that even. though he is accounted for for a lot of. the day, either by people or with. surveillance video, there is this small. window of time where he wasn't. From. around 9:21 when he shows up on. surveillance footage leaving the Alco. store until about 10:20 when the.

doctor's office says that he finally. shows up for his appointment. >> So, he would have had to do all that. driving, commit the murder, and clean himself up. in like an hour? Yeah, but all the. stops, I mean again, it's it's just like. the stops he made in that that that. little window, they're like in a super. close radius. Like, from the Alco to the. crime scene, it's like 6 minutes. >> Oh. So, they give Chad the same. treatment that they do everyone else. Bring in the polygrapher.

And finally, they get their first big. fat fail. Obviously, this doesn't mean. everything, but along with the other. circumstantial evidence, it is something. >> Yeah. They just need something more cuz. I think the thing that was partially. haunting everyone. was why. Because when they talked to Britney's. family, they say didn't know this guy. from Adam. This was the first time they. were ever even hearing the name Chad. Carr. And according to Britney's mom and.

sister, he and Britney seemed to just be. like ships passing in the night, like. orbiting each other from time to time, maybe, sure, but like simply. acquaintances. He was just Jeff's. sister's boyfriend. And this isn't just. coming from them. No one they talked to. could connect Chad to Britney in any. meaningful way. And even in all our. reporting, the only thing we were able. to dig up is that Britney had mentioned. Chad before to an aunt. Not even by. name, just calling him Velva's. boyfriend. But she said that he gave her. the creeps. And listen, when you talk.

about motive, like we know nothing from. the house was stolen, so it's not like. he went to the house to try and take. things while she was sleeping and then. she surprised him. Someone went to that. room to kill her. That was the goal. here. I mean, to me there has to be some. kind of sexual component though, like. with her being naked and her underwear. being missing. >> I agree, but it's just that no one can. point to anything that Chad ever said or. did that would be a precursor to this. At least not to Britney, but when they.

did look into Chad's past, there was. something hard to ignore. You see, years. earlier, in 2001, a woman reported to deputies that Chad. assaulted her by hitting her in the head. with a jack handle, which I don't know. if you're familiar with that, but. >> Yeah, it's a like a tire iron. >> Yeah, the kind of weapon that Britney. was possibly killed with. The weapon. that they've never been able to find. And listen, once you hear the details of.

this other attack, it's hard not to draw. some chilling parallels. According to the report we have, it's a. couple of days before Christmas in 2001, in the same small town of Winnsboro, Texas. a woman we're going to call. Debbie was working the second shift at. her parents' video store in town when. Chad Carr drops by with his wife. >> wife? Yeah, he'd been married before. He's obviously divorced by the time he. was dating Velva, by the time that.

Britney was murdered, but apparently he. had gotten married pretty young, like. when he was 18. Now, Debbie knew Chad. He was good friends with her soon-to-be. ex-husband. So, they get to talking and. she mentions how her parents have a. bunch of people in town staying at her. place for the holidays. Space for her. and her daughter was getting tight, so. she was actually going to spend the. night in The report just says "the. trailer", so I don't know if this was. like her old place with her husband or. if her family owned it or what, but her. and her daughter were going to go there. so that they didn't have to sleep on the. couch. So, there's nothing to this. Chad.

and his wife leave. Debbie gets off work. at 10:00, picks up her daughter and her. pup from her mom, and then goes to the. trailer at around 11:00. Now, Debbie says she puts her daughter. down in bed and then she stays up. watching movies and she was kind of like. dozing in and out. So, finally at like. 5:30 in the morning, she went to the. bedroom to sleep next to her daughter. But, shortly after laying down, her dog. starts barking. That's not normal, so she kind of like. sits there still for a second.

and then she hears leaves crunching, like footsteps, and then knocks on her front door. So, Debbie gets up and as she's making. her short walk to the front door, she. could see who was standing outside. It's. Chad Carr. He's like looking through the. glass and she could tell that he spotted. her. So, she goes to the door and opens. it and asks Chad the obvious question, like, "Why are you here. >> this hour?" And he says, "Oh, I was just. in the area picking up a coworker.".

Okay. But, her spidey senses go off. Like, she knows this coworker that he. mentioned, like, he gave her a specific. name, and that person doesn't live. around here. So, she says the name kind. of skeptically, like, "You're picking up. that guy?". >> Him? Yeah, and that's when Chad like. backtracks. Oh, like, no, not that guy. It was actually one of that guy's. friends. Like, it doesn't matter. He's. not home anyways, but that's neither. here nor there, he says. I stopped by. because I saw someone outside your. trailer. And as I pulled up, this small.

car sped away. Now, this obviously. worries her, so she's like, "Okay, can. you just like stay here on the front. porch, keep an eye out. I'm going to. like get my daughter together, get our. stuff. We're going to go back to my. parents' house.". So, she goes to the bedroom to get her. things, and when she comes back to the. living room, she sees Chad standing. there, very much not on the front porch. like she asked. But still, she doesn't. seem concerned because. Chad's there to help, right? So, she. told him again, like, "Listen, I'm just. going to get my things together." And. she goes to like move past him, and she.

kneels down on the floor for something. And then Chad asks her this chilling. question, "Are you sure there's no one. else here?". Like, of course she's sure. Like, what. do you mean? >> Yeah. And then came the blow to her. head. This didn't knock Debbie out, but. it stunned her. So, she like jumps up. and yelled, "You just hit me in the. head." And when she flicked on the. light, she saw Chad with a red jack. handle that had a rubber grip. And Chad. seemed stunned, too. He was saying, "Oh.

my god, I'm going to jail. Please don't. tell anybody.". >> What? >> And I don't know if she meant it at the. time or if she was just in shock or. survival mode, but she told him that she. wouldn't. She just needed to get her. daughter. But when she went to the room. and like bent down to pick up her. daughter, she felt blood dripping down. her neck. And so, she like reaches back. with both hands, touches the spot where. she'd been hit, and when she looks at. her hands, they are covered in blood.

>> when Chad saw it, he just began. apologizing. There wasn't time for apologies, though. She told him she needed to get to a. hospital now. He needed to drive her. And he did. She had to get three staples. in her head to close the wound. Now, I. don't know what exactly she told staff. at the hospital or if Chad went in with. her, but I think that she was still trying to. make sense of what had happened. So, before going to police, she actually.

went to Chad's wife first. And she's. told by her that when Chad got home that. day, he was acting really off, upset. And when she asked what was wrong, at. first he would say that he had just done. something really bad. But she like kept. pressing him. I'm not going to let my. husband be like, I did something really. bad. >> like, "Okay, cool. Thanks.". >> What was really bad? And he finally told. her. Though what his exact words were to. his wife, I don't know. I just know that. the day after Christmas, Debbie finally. worked up the courage to report what had.

happened to police. But when they go to. Chad, he says, "This was all a big. misunderstanding.". And he has like this whole story. So, he says that on some previous date, he had met some guy at a gas station. where he normally eats breakfast. And. that guy wanted to talk to Chad's boss. about a job. So, Chad was going to pick. this guy up the morning of the 22nd and. take him to his work. But this guy, who by the way, he can't.

even name, he couldn't find his house. So, he took this rural road that went by. Debbie's house like back to wherever he. was going because it was a faster way. Now, he says that he saw a small car. parked in front of her place. So, he. went to see if she was all right. And is. he stopping at like every house with a. parked car? Cuz like. >> Okay, there's a car there. She's there. We know that. But he's like, "So, I got. to the door see if she's all right." And. she's like, "Oh, you scared me because I. heard somebody walking." So, he says.

that she was scared. She was going to. follow him back into town, so he waits. in the living room while she went and. gathered her things, but then at some. point he gets startled by some person. walking by and hits them in the head. with the jack handle and realizes, oh my. god, I accidentally hit Debbie. Debbie, the person that you're there. specifically for, you've talked to, you. know is there. >> in the This is a trailer. We're not in. like a 5,000 square foot home. We are in. a small trailer. You know it's her. there. Well, and also like. the jack handle? Why do we have it to.

begin with? I don't know if he like. showed up at the door with it. It's like. there's nothing mentioned in. operate with like a jack handle in his. hand. So I don't know if he like came to. the door with it. Again, his whole. thing, at least according to Debbie's. story, is like, oh, I saw someone. around, so I don't know if he like had. it initially. I don't know if he went. back out and got I have no idea where. this thing came from as far as like him. bringing it into the trailer. I do know. that it comes up that his wife says he. actually borrowed this thing from a. friend. So it's not even his, which I don't know.

if it's just like a coincidence that he. has this thing or or he's using it. because it like. like as a weapon because it's not his. >> Like this, yeah. And also like, why was. he there in the first place? Like. I I don't I don't understand why he. would stop why he like why he exists in. this like space at all. Well, so here, plot twist. I originally thought it. seemed like there wasn't a motive for. this. Like kind of like in Britney's. case, right? Like it's like, why Why.

this person? Right, because there's. nothing in the police reports that goes. to motive. Is it just because you knew. she was going to be alone? Is it like. you're her. almost ex-husband's friend, like. whatever. But then we learned from a. couple of people close to the situation. that what was in the report may not be. the actual full story. Surprise, surprise. Allegedly, Chad and Debbie had been. having an affair. And apparently, Debbie. was about to spill the beans to Chad's. then wife. And obviously, he was not.

happy about that. Which. that makes way more sense why she took a. minute before filing any kind of report. >> if that's true, it all kind of clicks. into place for me. But, it actually is. the one thing then that really. differentiates this attack from the. attack on Britney because. >> he has a connection here. Right. And we. we asked and nobody thought cuz I cuz. the first time I heard this I'm like, "Oh my god, do you think there was. anything with Chad and Britney?" And we.

asked everyone. Nobody thought they had. anything going on. His connection to. Britney is still pretty much nada. Now, Chad doesn't commit any more offenses. for the next 4 years. But, that's. because he ends up serving time for this. attack on Debbie. He pled no contest to. the assault charge he was eventually hit. with, and he stayed in jail until early. 2006. But, just a few months after getting. out, he's accused of sexually assaulting. his ex-wife. Ex because she had.

obviously moved on while he was in jail. and for all the Debbie stuff. And then. less than a year after that, Britney is. brutally murdered. And he becomes the main suspect. With. that past, a shaky alibi, and a failed. polygraph, detectives have enough to get. a search warrant for his aunt's place. where he'd been living. They're looking. for anything to physically link him to. the crime. Bloody. >> clothes, a murder weapon, Britney's. missing underwear. Yeah. And they do.

find and take some interesting items. into evidence. Like a pair of white. shorts with what appears to be drops of. blood on them. And a white t-shirt that. also appears to have blood on it. A gray. ski mask. And women's underwear. Two. pairs. One is pink, size seven. The other is white, size five. There's. no blood on either pair or anything like. that. And we know Chad is dating Velva. then, right? Like could be hers. So they.

go to Jeff's mom and she says the pink. ones, the size seven ones, those are. Velva. She knows that. But the size. five, no one in that house seems to. claim those. So then they go to Britney's mom and. sure enough she tells them that the size. five is the exact size that Britney. wore. So they've got Chad. Not quite. This search didn't happen until more. than two weeks after the murder and. according to law enforcement it seemed. like the underwear had been washed by.

the time that investigators got a hold. of them. So even though they do send. them off for testing, nothing comes back. that would definitively link Britney to. the underwear. Okay, did Jeff remember. her underwear being white that morning. when she got into bed? Like could could. he have ID'd them? >> This This was my question too, but in. all of the documents we have there is no. record of anyone specifically asking. Jeff this. So. I don't know. And Madison tried reaching. out to him to ask about this along with. a lot of other things, but as of this.

recording, we haven't heard back from. him. Okay, but there was other clothing. like the shorts and the shirt. Like. whose blood was on those? >> I don't know. It sounds like the testing. didn't come back with anything useful on. those either. Like either it was. inconclusive or maybe it was Chad's, but. like it didn't give them anything to go. on. What about all the stuff at the. actual crime scene back at Jeff's house? Like. this was a violent scene. I I think that. there would be. something there. Like maybe under her.

fingernails, just Well, >> the fingernails, so we asked about. those. Apparently Britney's were too. short. So like nothing helpful there. But to your point, yeah, you think there. would be something somewhere at that. scene especially because they think that. this is a killer who apparently sticks. around long enough to take a shower. before leaving. And that's one of the. reasons that they actually test the. shower including the drain. But here's the catch. According to the. sheriff, there's only one bathroom in. that whole house. So, it's a really. shared space then. Even if they can.

place Chad in that bathroom, it kind of means nothing. >> Well, except for the fact that it it. kind of might if they can place him. there because apparently Chad makes a. specific statement to authorities that I. find really interesting. When they tell. Chad that they're in the process of. testing evidence, he says something. like, "My DNA will not be on that girl. or in that room.". I honestly was expecting him to like. preemptively explain why his DNA was. there.

>> that's why I was like surprised, but he. doesn't do that. In his original. statement, Chad says that he never went. inside that house. Is he talking like just that morning or. ever? I I mean, I think he's just. talking about the day of the murder, but. like still. So, assuming like that, I have to wonder. like come from. like the confidence from being so. meticulous about cleaning up after. yourself or from being innocent? I mean, I know what a defense attorney would. argue because in the early days, most of. what they find at the scene seems to.

belong to Britney or people living in. the house. Nothing that clearly. identifies an outside attacker. Okay, but would Chad technically count as an. outside attacker if he'd been at the. house at some point? I mean, I know. Like I feel like I'm like dancing. around. So, I feel like I'm being a. little cryptic here and that's because. investigators were tight-lipped with us. surrounding DNA stuff. But from what I. could gather, if they did have anything early on, it. was either inconclusive or too limited.

to point to like a sure suspect. So, in. that early time frame, like the. investigation starts to slow. way down. You're kidding me. Like they have so. much. >> No. And where is Velva in all this? Like. this is her boyfriend they're accusing. of murder. You know, I don't I don't. think she's saying a lot initially. I. mean it sounds like they're really only. talking to her at the scene that day. because like she was in school when this. happened, right? And then after they're.

like focused on Chad, it doesn't seem. like they circle back around to her at. least like in any real formal way. Maybe. she was still with him for a little bit. and they thought that she would take his. side. I don't know. But she doesn't stay with him like. long-term. Like I know that for sure. And sometime after they break up, she. does actually seek out police because. she wants to talk to them because she. thinks that she has information that. could help them.

About 8 months after Britney McGlone's. murder, Velva asked to have a. conversation with police about Chad. She. tells them. there were things about that day that. now looking back don't sit right with. her. She says that when Chad picked her up. from school that afternoon, something was off. Like he seemed. nervous and there was this. distinct smell that she remembers. It was her body wash, Softsoap Ultra.

Rich Shea Butter. And this is chilling to her because to. her knowledge, Chad hadn't showered at. her house that day. There would have. been no reason to because by the way, I. told you she hadn't even stayed at her. house the night before, remember? The. two of them spent the night together at. his aunt's house. She went straight to. school from there. And when he dropped. her off, he didn't smell like that. So. she asked him, like did you take a. shower? And he says yes. So then she.

asked the natural follow-up question, did you shower at my house? And he just doesn't answer according to. her. And sometimes silence speaks. volumes. Now, they went to her house, right? And the scene was unfolding. It. was understandably distracting, right? So, maybe like you don't press in on it. then. And we know at least one deputy is. flagging how strange Chad is acting. But. Velva says that he was acting odd the. rest of the day, too. Like he didn't. want to be alone afterward. And at one. point, she says that he even called his.

aunt to like come be with him. >> Which all of this seems like a little. bit dramatic when he acts like is saying. everyone agrees that he barely even knew. Britney. >> Right? Yes. And then Velva gives. investigators something that they have. been struggling to find. A possible. motive outside of just a propensity for. violence. She says that Chad had complained before. that Britney was allowed to stay. overnight at Jeff's house, but he.

wasn't. Wait, that's it? That's That's. the motive. >> That's all she can come up with in the. last 8 months. And look, on its own, it's not a strong motive. It might not. even be the motive. And quite frankly, it doesn't even really make much sense. to me because from everything we learned. from Britney's mom, Patricia, sleeping. over after the night shift wasn't even. something that Britney really ever did. Wait. If he. wasn't allowed to stay over, wouldn't that take away any like. innocent explanation for his DNA to be.

in that like some specific places of the. house if they were to ever find it? If. But whatever they do have, it's. apparently not enough to make the people. in charge think that they should move. forward. So, even after Velva gives her. statement, nothing much changes. For years. And the longer it sits, the more leads. dry up. The colder and colder her case. gets. Until a new sheriff comes to town.

Literally. Well, kind of literally. In. 2021, there is a new sheriff, Kelly. Cole. But, he'd actually been there from. the very beginning, working in law. enforcement in the same county where. Britney was killed. He knew the details. He knew the. mistakes. And now, he has the authority. to try and make it right. So, he does. try. Alongside Captain Mike Chilson, they. start going back through everything. Old.

reports, old interviews, old evidence. And at the center of it all is the same. name they had before, Chad Carr. Because in the years since Britney's. murder, Chad hasn't stayed out of. trouble. He went on to serve 10 years. for sexually assaulting his ex-wife. And that matters because now. investigators aren't just looking at a. suspect, they're looking at a pattern. A. pattern that frustrates Britney's family. because Chad didn't even end up having.

to register as a sex offender after. this. And I know we've been searching. for a strong why here when there might. not really be one at all. So, maybe the why is just an appetite. for aggression. And not just with women. Court filings that we got our hands on. alleged prior incidents of animal. cruelty. One involving a cat and another. involving multiple stray cats and. kittens. As Sheriff Cole and Captain Chilson are. taking their fresh look, it doesn't. appear like they uncover some brand.

spanking new evidence or anything. They. just ultimately believe that there had. been enough to move forward with an. arrest all along. So, the previous. administrations just. didn't even want to try then. Sounds. like it. So, over 15 years later, it is now 2022. Chad Carr is arrested for capital. murder. While describing that moment to us, Captain Chilson said that Chad didn't. even seem surprised, but rather it felt. more like he was he believes maybe.

relieved. And without anything ever even. coming up about DNA, we were told that. Chad was already changing his story. about not being inside the house that. day. He preemptively starts indicating. to a Texas Ranger that he'd been in and. out of there all of the time. So, he was. thinking that they found something then? Maybe, I don't know. But he's booked into jail and for the. first time in years it feels like this. case is moving forward.

And for Britney's family it's. overwhelming. It's hope, maybe even the. start of healing. But in cases like this, we know that an. arrest isn't the end. It's just like the. next step. Especially in Texas because before a. felony case can go to trial, it has to. go through a grand jury. Prosecutors. have to lay out what they believe. happened and why Chad Carr should stand. trial for Britney's murder. A decision. takes just about the full 90 days that. they're given to decide and then the. grand jury returns.

a no bill. Meaning there will be no. trial. How is that possible? I mean, this is. to me like far from a weak case. >> Listen, I especially like you're not. convicting him. You're saying there. should be a trial. I agree. >> According to Sheriff Cole and Captain. Chilton, they say the problem wasn't the case. itself. It's that they say the grand. jury never heard all of their case. They. say. >> They say that key testimony including. their own was never presented and the.

process ended before the full picture. could really be totally laid out. But it. like it doesn't matter now. The results. are the same. Like. >> And Chad just walks away a free man. And. Britney's family is left right back. where they started. Okay, just to be clear, double jeopardy. it doesn't apply to grand juries, right? Like just actual trials and verdicts. So. >> So Chad Carr could still stand trial for. this case if it ever went to a new grand.

jury and they chose to indict, which is. why like this no bill didn't stop. detectives from working this case. They're still reviewing evidence. They're still looking for a way forward. And when it comes to the forensic side. of things, the sheriff is careful with. his words. He makes it clear. a lot has already been tested and most. of what has come back makes sense. It's. either Britney's or people living in the. house, but then he says something very.

interesting. He acknowledges that there. is DNA they're still looking at. DNA recovered from the shower that. doesn't belong to someone who lived in. that house. He won't go into more detail. than that, at least not yet, because in. his words, there are still things they. have to protect. Still avenues that. they're going down. Still evidence that. could matter. Which means this isn't.

over. Not for investigators and. definitely not for Britney's family. The. question now isn't if something else. comes. I think it's when. We tried. reaching out to Chad Carr every which. way we could. Phone numbers, Facebook, even sent a letter to where we think he. might be living now. But as of this. recording, he hasn't responded to us. The number one question that I wanted to. ask him directly. is did you murder Britney McGlone? Because to this day, Captain Chilson.

says that he doesn't believe Chad Carr. has ever explicitly denied murdering. Britney. Oh. He said things like, you. won't find my DNA. I couldn't have done. it. Mhm. But never a flat-out denial. Britney McGlone's family was a recipient. of a Season of justice grant. I don't. know if you knew that in 2025. They put up a billboard just northeast. of Winnsboro in Sulphur Springs, Texas. asking for tips. It's been up for a year, but it's. scheduled to come down any day now,

which is why I wanted to make sure that. this episode went up right on the. anniversary of Brittany's murder so that. her family's plea for help could always. be heard, not just by the people of Wood. County, but people all over the world. And sure, Brittany's loved ones would be. grateful for a confession or some shiny. new piece of evidence, but the. heavyweight lies with everything they've. had to live without. Because while investigators can go back. over timelines, maybe retest DNA, they.

don't get to go back. They don't get. more time with Brittany, just more. missed birthdays without her. And in a place where everybody knows. everybody, you would think the truth. would be easy to find. But sometimes the smaller the circle, the easier it is to keep things in. And for Brittany's family, that close. circle hasn't given them more answers. It has just left them on the outside. still waiting. So, if you know something, you could be someone to finally get.

through that circle. You can stay anonymous by calling the. Wood County Crime Stoppers at. 903-760-1008. or you can contact the Wood County. Sheriff's Office directly at. 903-763-2201. You can find all the source material for. this episode on our website. crimejunkie.com. And you can follow us on Instagram at. crimejunkiepodcast. We'll be back next. week with a brand new episode.