What Really Happened to Spencer Irwin in Fresno?

Hi Crime Junkies, I'm your host Ashley. Flowers. >> And I'm Britt. >> Today's story about Spencer Irwin is one. that I know you've never heard before. because it's never been reported on. before. And that's probably because if. you were to ask Fresno police, there's. no story to tell. Or at least they would. have said that for a while. Spencer was a 30-year-old man they found. naked covered in dirt at the bottom of a. loading dock back in [music] 2024. They initially assumed he was homeless, assumed he died of a drug overdose,

assumed there was nothing they deemed. worthy of investigating. So they didn't. But boy, were they wrong. [music]. Because Spencer Irwin was none of the. things they assumed. And he has a mother. in his corner who has been doing all the. investigating they weren't. And now. she's got us in her corner. >> [music]. >> And you won't believe what together we. found. This is Spencer [music] Irwin's story.

From the moment Kelly Irwin first got a. call from the Fresno County Deputy. Coroner telling her that her son was. dead, things felt disorienting. It was. just before 11:00 a.m. on Friday, August. 2nd, 2024 when she was told that her. 30-year-old son Spencer had been found. the day before naked near some. dumpsters. And they couldn't say for. certain yet, but based on the fact that. there were no external signs of trauma, they were pretty sure that he died from.

an overdose. Kelly never knew her son to. use drugs and she had no idea why he. would be naked or why he was found where. he was. Honestly, part of her was sure. that this was some kind of huge. misunderstanding. Like, it had to be. someone else and everyone was just. confused. It had to be. Kelly wanted to. go down to the Fresno County Sheriff. Coroner's Office to see him for herself. But they tell her that she can't. They. are sure it is Spencer and she's going. to have to wait five agonizing days. while they get him cleaned up and.

transferred to the funeral home before. she can see him. But five agonizing days. later, that doesn't even happen. Now. Kelly knows the guy who works at the. funeral home and he stops her. He's. like, "Listen Kelly, I'm not going to. let you see him." Because Spencer was in. such an advanced state of decomposition. that they wanted to spare her from that. being the last mental image of her son. So instead, she asked to see at least a. picture of a tattoo that Spencer had. When they gave her that, she finally. believed them. It really was her.

firstborn that they found. But she still can't understand how. According to the medical examiner, they. were still waiting on the toxicology. results to come back, which they were. pretty confident were going to confirm. what they'd been thinking all along, that Spencer just died from an overdose. Like I said, Kelly had never known her. son to do drugs. And I don't mean that. in like a naive parent way where you. think your kid is like some kind of. saint and you're like oblivious to what. is like actually going on in their life. Kelly is the first person to tell you.

that Spencer struggled with alcohol use. and was currently in a period of. recurrence. He was really open with her. about his struggles. But he wasn't the. party with drugs type of guy. She said. that he would drink alcohol, beer or. vodka, but typically at home in sort of. like a self-medicating type of way, by. himself. Now the thing you got to know. about Kelly is all she's after is the. truth. So even though drugs didn't make. any sense to her, she wasn't even ruling. that out. She was just asking herself, "Why now? Who would Spencer have gotten.

them from?" Like, "Is it possible that. someone else drugged him? Was there. something that they were all just. missing here?". >> And did the autopsy show anything at. all? >> Well, no, because there was no autopsy. done. >> I'm sorry. What? I mean, how are we even talking. about tox screens, but there's no. autopsy? >> The ME's office told Kelly that Spencer. was released without one because they. didn't think he needed one. >> How do you even know that at this point? >> Because they just said they took some. blood samples to do a tox screen.

>> Like a tox screen to confirm the. conclusion they already made even though. you can't actually make that conclusion. without the results. >> Exactly. >> Okay. >> And listen, Kelly didn't just sit back. and take this answer. She knew that they. should be doing one. She was pushing. them over and over to do one. Except the. more that she pushed, the more she said. that the coroner's office refused. And. the deputy coroner tells her like. "Listen, we've seen this before. Based. on how we found him, we are confident he. took some kind of illegal drug,

something that made him so hot he. stripped down naked before he died." And. they point out that there were no. footprints in the dirt around him. They. only saw what they call a quote-unquote. snow angel pattern around his head and. arms that they suspect he made while. overdosing. They tell her that there are. several other people who have died in. this same manner. And Kelly's asking all. the right questions. Like, "Okay, I hear. you. If he took something and removed his. clothes, then where are they? Did they get.

collected? Do you have pictures from the. scene to confirm if his clothes are. around him? No one's turned clothes back. over to me, so like where are his. things?" But Fresno PD are like, "You. know, I don't know. Didn't collect. anything.". >> Because there was nothing to collect or. because you just didn't collect things. that were there. Like those are two. pretty different things. >> That is what I'll be attempting to. answer throughout this episode. I. believe some of his things may have been. around there. And it's a real shame that.

they didn't try to collect more. Because. near the end of September, Spencer's. toxicology results do come back. And. they do not make this the open and shut. case that Fresno PD thought it was. Based on the coroner's report that Kelly. got and shared with us, Spencer did have. alcohol in his system, but only at the. level of .03 and only two drugs showed. up, a barbiturate and gabapentin, but. neither of them were at toxic or lethal.

levels. >> So then, what killed him? >> We won't ever know because by the time. these results came back, Spencer had. already been cremated. Authorities. wouldn't do the autopsy, so when. Spencer's body got released, Kelly, Spencer's dad Dave, and Spencer's. girlfriend Kate got together and decided. that Spencer would have wanted to be. cremated. And then after they did that, they had a service to honor his life. And get this, Kelly didn't know that. private autopsies could be requested. So, she just took the coroner's office.

at their word. >> Right, because like they're the. authorities. It's their job to handle. these situations properly. Like if they. say like nothing to see here, you. want to be able to believe them. >> Exactly. Why would a family be read up. on like this option of a private autopsy. without reason? And it was heartbreaking. for us to be the ones to tell her that. that was an option. There's even a. really easy phone number to remember. that Kelly hopes people listening to. this will pay attention to in case. they're ever in this unimaginable.

scenario. Super easy. 1-800-AUTOSPY. >> Yeah, I remember we learned about this. in the Amanda Wenkoski case, right? >> So, you guys, commit this to memory. 1-800-AUTOSPY. Maybe a private autopsy would have given. Kelly the answers that she was looking. for. Because she is stunned to see in. the report that not only did her son not. overdose, the coroner's report. ultimately rules her son's manner of. death as natural and his cause of death.

as probable sudden cardiac death from. chronic alcohol and tobacco use. >> Okay. I'm going to need you to like walk me. through this. If he just had some random cardiac. event, why is he one, naked, and two, at a loading dock where he, unless you know differently and haven't. told me yet, had no business being. Like. this is like a pretty random place for. him to be. >> That part has zero explanation. [music].

The report just focuses on his past. medical history of alcohol abuse, his. high blood pressure, elevated heart. rate, among other conditions. Yet when. Kelly actually sat down with the. coroner's office to go over all of the. results, she says that they admit to her. that since they couldn't find a clear. cause of death, their only option was to. call the manner natural causes. >> Okay, I'm not a coroner, but I'm pretty. sure that wasn't their only option. >> You could be a coroner, though. Remember, in many places you don't need.

to have a medical training to be a. coroner. >> Which is still wild to me. >> The sheriff coroner on these reports, John Zanoni, doesn't have medical. training. He's got a BS degree in. criminal justice with a minor in. agriculture business. >> I feel like with my history I could also. be a coroner [laughter]. with with those like credentials. >> been a career law enforcement guy who. was voted into the position. >> I mean, great reminder to pay attention. to local elections. >> You need to be voting for the person who.

you would want in charge of solving your. homicide, not the person with your. preferred color tie. And I keep saying. I'm done with right and left, it is. about right and wrong here. But here we. are. Kelly has the coroner's office. telling her that this is the best they. can do with what they have because they. don't have an autopsy. But this version of best is just not. good enough. So Kelly goes to meet with. the Fresno PD detectives and begs them. to do a real investigation. She's like,

"Listen, I just need answers and. everything you've been telling me about. my son is wrong." Like listen, she was. patient. She tried trusting everyone, gave them time to do all their tests, but now something different needs to. happen before more critical evidence is. lost out on. And in response to this. impassioned plea, she says that one of the detectives on. the case is like listen, your son died from natural causes. There's no evidence of a homicide here. Case closed. Your son struggled with alcohol use. At.

least now you don't have to worry about. him relapsing. >> Okay, Ashley. [laughter]. I've been in recovery for 4 years, and I. hope to God that you would prefer me. here and like doing well, but maybe. struggling here and there than I don't. know, dead? >> If someone dared say that to my face, so. help me God. And we reached out to the. Fresno PD for comment, not just about. this specific interaction, but any. comment about this case as a whole, and.

they declined. But Kelly is a better. woman than me because she told us that. even though it was jarring for her to. hear that, and obviously it stuck with. her. >> Yeah. >> She didn't have any ill will against. that detective. She's had a lot of. people say strange things to her after. her son passed, so she could look past. that. What she couldn't look past was. the case closed, no evidence of a. homicide stuff. >> Yeah, we don't have evidence because. we didn't do anything to collect. evidence. Like.

that's that's the issue there, right? >> But if they want evidence, fine. Kelly's. going to give them evidence. Cuz little. did they know, just days after Kelly. learned that Spencer had died, she. started doing her own investigation. And. there is nothing like the power of a. mother on a mission. >> Quiet coastal towns may seem peaceful, but they can harbor dark secrets. I'm. Kylie Low, host of Dark Down East, a.

podcast that tells true crime stories. from my own New England community to. help victims and families get justice. Listen to Dark Down East wherever you. get your podcasts. >> [music]. >> Thankfully, Kelly Irwin is a Crime. Junkie. So, when she found herself in. the impossible situation of having to. investigate her own son's death on her. own, she knew all the right. documentation to collect and what leads. to follow.

And by doing that, she was able to lay. out for us a clear timeline of Spencer's. last movements, going all the way back. to the month before his death in June. 2024. That was the month that Kelly. first noticed Spencer had started. drinking again. She kept an eye on him and he was still. going to school at Fresno City College, maintaining his grades, but she could. just tell. And those fears were. confirmed in the beginning of July when. she found out that Spencer had to go to. the hospital and get stitches after he. drank too much, fell, and got a pretty.

big cut on his [music] forehead. After. this, he was open with his mom about. wanting to get help and he planned on. checking into a local rehab, but he had. to wait for a spot to open up and that. wouldn't have been until the end of. July. Now, anytime Spencer started. drinking again, it made Kelly nervous. She she's a mom, right? Like she worried. about him. But they'd made it through. this before and Spencer had been pretty. good about communicating with her when. he was trying to get back on track. Now, in the time before he was set to check. into rehab, Spencer tried detoxing. He. told his girlfriend Kate that starting.

on July 10th, he was going to go to a. detox program for like a week so he'd be. off the grid. But I know his sobriety. didn't last because Spencer went to the. hospital on July 24th with abdominal. pain, nausea, and a headache. The same. symptoms that he had come to the. hospital with before when he was in. withdraw. Now, the report says that. Spencer told them he last drank alcohol. 2 days before that, but he was trying to. detox again so that he could start a. rehab program on July 29th. Now, he was.

discharged from the hospital that same. day and in communication with Kelly in. the days that follow. Like there were. things that he needed to get in order. before checking into rehab. Number one. on his list was getting his phone fixed. Like. it had been randomly like turning off. and he needed it because he was going to. still be able to keep doing his classes. at Fresno City College while he was. checked into rehab like through his. phone and online. On Saturday, this. would have been July 27th, Kelly knows. that Spencer walked to a Verizon store. This would have been like a 4-mile walk,

but unfortunately, it was closed when he. got there. So, he had to walk back to. his apartment. The next day, Sunday, Spencer called Kelly and asked for a. ride to that same Verizon store, but she. told him that he need to wait a little. bit before she could give him a ride. And he's like, "Listen, no problem. I'm. just going to head out before it gets. too hot. I'll walk again.". >> Wait, whose phone did he call from if. his phone wasn't working? >> I think he used a buddy's phone, this. guy named Angel who he had met in that. like July 10th detox place. And Angel, I. guess, was actually going to be checking.

into rehab with Spencer on the 29th. >> Okay. >> And just to make it clear, like his. phone it obviously wasn't working this. time cuz I know he called from Angel's. phone, but it wasn't like totally broken. from what I could tell. It just kept. turning on and off or whatever. >> Yeah. So, shortly after 8:00 a.m., Spencer walks out of his apartment. carrying a black backpack. He's got a. black hat on. He's wearing jeans, a. white shirt with black shoes. And Kelly. confirmed these details with Spencer's. landlord, and she also got a still image. of him leaving. So, we have like visual.

proof of what he looked like when he. left. Now, the exact route that he took. is unknown. Now, Kelly asked detectives. to look at traffic cameras in the area. along the route that she was pretty sure. Spencer would have taken, but that. request was ignored. So, there's no. concrete evidence to prove his path. The. best Kelly can do is map out the most. likely route, which would have taken. Spencer along this busy street through a. mostly residential area. But somewhere. along the way, Spencer's path had to. have diverged. Because when Kelly tracks.

down the Verizon employee that was. working on Sunday, they told her they. never saw anyone matching Spencer's. description that day. Plus, Spencer's on. Kelly's account, so she would have had. to authorize any kind of like. transactions that he would have made. >> And there's no footage of Spencer coming. back to the apartment. >> No, he just vanishes somewhere after. leaving the apartment around 8:00 a.m. >> And then his body is found. when exactly? >> His body is found Thursday, August 1st. But the thing is like no one can tell. her when his body actually had ended up.

there. Because on the coroner's report, Spencer's day and time of death is. listed as the day and time that they. found [music] him and responded to the. scene. And we know that he was already. showing signs of decomp by then. >> Right. >> So like had he been there the whole. time? Less time? Is there like time. missing? We don't know. >> wouldn't he have been found if he was. there the whole time? >> Not necessarily. So when you see. pictures, he was kind of tucked back. behind this building. And this wasn't a. super busy loading dock. And for most of.

the day, he would have been in a shaded. area. So even if someone was driving by. on like the parking lot part above the. loading dock, >> Mhm. >> I don't think that like he would have. stood out. But the thing is even in a. shaded area, an expert that we talked to. who said that the thing that they would. expect was for him to have been more. decomposed if he was there for all four. days. So I don't know, I think there. very well could be missing time that. like we need to fill. >> And in relation to like.

his apartment, the Verizon store where. he was headed, where is this loading. dock? >> Not on the way. I mean, it's closer to. the store than his place, but there's. like no direct path to the store that. goes by this area. And actually, the. next piece of the mystery clicked into. place when Kelly actually went in person. to see the area where Spencer was found. So, this is like a storage area for a. waste company in Fresno. This is. basically where they store dumpsters and. stuff, and it is not heavily monitored.

at the time. Now, when Kelly was there, she was looking for places with cameras, and she found multiple, but most of them. gave some kind of excuse for why they. couldn't help. They were either like, "Oh, we don't like have tape or. whatever, or tape erases after 24 hours, or if you want our tape, you got to. bring the police back with you." But. thankfully, there was one business that. still had footage, and they were willing. to let Kelly see it. And this camera is. pointed in the direction of one of the.

two gates that allows people on and off. this property. [music] And just to like. orient you, so like imagine you're. overhead looking down on a rectangular. building running vertically. At the bottom, you have like the main. road, and to the right and left of this. building, you can enter what's basically. like a parking lot that runs like a U. around the building. And the loading. dock where Spencer is eventually found. is like in the very back. So, from the. vantage point overhead, the camera is. pointing at the entrance on the left. Now, Kelly spends hours going through.

the footage, which seems to only capture. when it's motion activated. But she's. hoping to see some sign of Spencer going. behind the business between July 28th. and August 1st. And while she doesn't. get any confirmed footage of him on this. camera, there is something that catches. her eye. The timestamp on the footage. said that it was just after 10:00 p.m. on July 29th, when a car pulls up to the. entrance. The security gate is already. open, so this car can drive right.

through. But as it does, it turns off its lights. Now, the quality isn't great, and what. we've got is a video that Kelly took of. the original footage on her phone, but. you can see that the car pulls in, goes off screen, and then it's out of. sight for less than 15 minutes. Then, it. comes back and just leaves the way it. came in. After the car leaves, there's something. else that is captured. Now, I only have. a short clip of this, but the video.

starts with someone standing by the. front of the building alone and in the. dark. And then, they walk off like out. of frame, but in the opposite direction. than where the car came and left from. But, Kelly finds it odd that anyone is. out there in this area at this time. >> she tell anything about the car that was. driving in and out? >> Well, the footage is too blurry to make. out any kind of license plate, but the. good news is the car is distinctive. enough that you can very clearly tell.

the make and model. It is a white Kia. Soul. >> Oh, those are like super boxy and. identifiable. >> Yeah, which gives Kelly hope that maybe. if she can find a connection to anyone. involved in Spencer's life who has. access has a white Kia Soul, maybe this. is going to be some kind of link that. will like lead her to what happened. Cuz. though she can't prove anything from. this video alone, she feels confident. that something happened to Spencer on. Sunday the 28th. And whatever that car. was doing back there on the 29th had.

something to do with how his body ended. up back there. After Spencer's death, Kelly would go. back to that area and look around at the. back of the building where he was found. looking for anything that might resemble. evidence. And oddly enough, one of the. first few times she went there, she saw. a pair of dirty underwear laying at the. bottom of the loading dock. And I'm. using the term like loading dock kind of. loosely. Basically, there was this. platform and then like three [music]. steps down and you were on the ground. level. So, it's not like this big pit or.

anything. But, she took a picture of the. underwear because without a doubt to. her, she believes these were Spencer's. Kelly told our reporter, Taylor Day, that Spencer wore a specific brand with. unique designs on them. He had like 30. pairs of these things. Now, Kelly didn't. collect them at the time, and she wishes. she did because when she went back. another time, they were gone. >> And I assume that it wasn't the police. who went back and got them. >> No. She told them about the underwear, though. She's giving everything that she.

finds to Fresno PD as she finds it. But, what they do with it at the time is a. mystery to us all. Kelly believes that. Fresno PD just wrote Spencer off from. the beginning because they just didn't. want to investigate. And when I say from. the beginning, I mean right there at the scene. Because. guess what else she saw on surveillance. footage when she kept combing through. it. She saw officers respond on August. 1st. And she said she watched a police. car drive back there real slow,

then an ambulance, a crime scene unit. van even pulled up. But, they didn't go back there. It just drove away. >> The The crime scene unit didn't even. drive back to the crime scene? >> Nope. >> Uh The more you tell me, the more pissed. off I'm getting. Like, they didn't know who this person was, what his history was, what had I mean, they don't even They But, they don't. They They shouldn't even need to know. that to do their job. >> Right. This is their job.

>> That's what I'm saying. They wrote him. off and never gave him the courtesy of a. proper investigation. Now, remember, their excuse at the beginning was like, "Oh, we see this all the time. We get. calls like this. Man on drugs strips. nude." That's why they handled it the. way they did. >> Okay, but did they? >> Well, this is This is the question. We. requested records for calls of service. within this like triangle around where. Spencer was found. When our FOIA came. back, it turns out Spencer was the only. death of a person call that came up in.

the year leading up to his death. >> So, it's not like they were getting like. multiple calls like this. >> At least not in this specific area. Now, I'll say their jurisdiction is much. bigger than just this small area, and in. this area, there were quite a few. welfare check calls, like sick or. injured people. There were three. suicides, but like nothing like this. So, Kelly takes all of this proof, what. she feels is important evidence, and she. has a sit-down with detectives. And. she's like, "Listen, I'm going to walk you through this, and.

then you tell me if at the end this all. sounds like natural causes." And. hypothetical after hypothetical is. disproven. On drugs? Nope. Tox results. came back with no red flags. So, her. detectives are like, "Well, you know, like maybe he had a mental crisis and. took his clothes off and was like. walking around naked." But Kelly's like, "Okay, but like probably not because. wouldn't that have been reported?" So, they say, "Well, you know, maybe he got. hot and went back behind the building to. cool off and then just like passed.

away.". But Kelly's like, "You're telling me. that Spencer walked over 4 miles to that. loading dock to cool off?". >> What? That literally makes zero sense. >> And then they point back to the fact. that there were no other footprints. around him in all that dirt. There was. just that snow angel pattern. And then. Kelly's like, "Okay, but then riddle me. this. How did he end up there if there are no. footprints?". >> No footprints are no footprints and. there's someone here, so like. he didn't just appear. >> Every time Kelly pushes back, detectives. are like, "Well, you know, yeah, you're.

right. This doesn't make sense." And so, Kelly keeps advocating for Spencer. And. eventually, finally, Fresno PD opens a formal. investigation. At this point, they're. like 6 weeks behind, and so much. evidence has been lost. But. Kelly has developed one more lead that. she hands them. And it's the one in her. mind that is the best place for them to. start. You see, before Kelly got the.

call from the coroner's office, she had. been looking for her son. She hadn't. heard from him in days, which was. unusual. So, on July 31st, she had. called his landlord and asked her to do. a welfare check. And the call that she. got back on that same day was weird. The landlord said that she had checked. Spencer's apartment and Spencer wasn't. there, but someone else was. Kelly told us that Spencer was part of.

something called the Hope Program, a. housing initiative designed to help and. support Fresno City College students. experiencing homelessness. The program. also provided substance use counseling. for those dealing with addiction. And. part of the agreement with Spencer's. college and the program was that the. landlord had full authority to go into. the tenant's apartments to make sure. that nothing bad was going on. And so, on July 31st, when Kelly couldn't get a. hold of Spencer, she asked them to go in. and check on him. So, when the landlord. called to report back, she told Kelly. this strange story. She said that when.

she entered his door code and walked. into the small studio apartment, she. didn't see anyone. So, she was about to. turn around and leave, but then she. heard this sound come from the bathroom. So, she goes over and opens the door and. there was this guy just in there. And. she's like, "Who are you?" Because she. knew it wasn't Spencer. And this guy's. like, "Oh, uh you know, I'm Spencer's. cousin. He's letting me stay here while. he's in rehab.". But the landlord doesn't think that's.

true. Like I said, she like knows. Spencer, she knows Kelly, she's also. seen this guy around. She didn't know. who he was. She was pretty sure he. wasn't Spencer's cousin. And Kelly later learns that this guy's. name is Angel Gonzalez. >> Angel, that's the guy whose phone. Spencer used to call his mom, right? >> Correct. >> And I guess that's what I'm getting at. Like, Kelly knows that like Spencer and. Angel were supposed to be checking in on. the 29th, right? >> Right, exactly. It's not adding up. Angel was supposed to check in, too.

He's not supposed to be there. So, Kelly. asks if detectives can look into this. guy. But, Fresno PD just tells Kelly, "Listen, we'll keep you posted." And. they also want her to stop doing her own. investigation, especially in that part. of town, because they tell her it's not. safe for her. Naturally, though, Kelly. doesn't stop. >> Thank god. >> Day after day, she shows up going from. business to business asking anyone if. they've seen her son. She shows them. Spencer's picture. She also goes into. different homeless encampments along the.

route that he would have taken from his. apartment to that Verizon store, but she. doesn't get any leads. And to Kelly, even after the police start. investigating, she says it feels more. like detectives were trying to do. everything they could to prove their. conclusion rather than look into whether. or not foul play could have occurred. Like, they spoke to Spencer's. girlfriend, Kate, months after his. death. And in their quick 15-minute. interview, they basically tried to. explain how meth could cause someone to.

die in the manner that Spencer was. found. Our reporter spoke to Kate, and. she told us that she was adamant with. detectives that Spencer was never known. to use meth. Yes, he drank, but he did. not use hard drugs like that. >> And his tox results prove that. >> Yeah, so Kate is saying like the. detectives were trying to tell her that. meth may or may not show up in tox. results. And she said that they told her. it wouldn't have been impossible for it. to be in his system without showing up. in the results.

>> Is Is that true? I mean, I guess I've always been under the. impression that if you die from meth, I. don't know, meth is in your system. Like, like. >> that seems like a one-to-one. Like, that's what happens. >> Yeah, and listen, I was like, I felt. like I was losing my mind. I felt like I. was being gaslighted with them. I I. tried finding something definitive, and. I did find a couple of studies. There. was one from 2015, another from 2024, and everything I'm reading indicates. that if you got meth in your system, it. would show up. Basically, Kate feels.

like they were telling her this so maybe. that she would convince Kelly that. that's what could have happened, and. maybe this whole thing would just like. go away. I mean, if you're Kelly, I have. to imagine it feels like you're like. losing your grip on. >> reality. >> Gaslighting you, right? That's what I'm. saying. >> Everything seems so black and white cuz. it it is, and the people who are. supposed to be helping you, like you. said, they're just telling you not to. like believe your own eyes and ears. >> Yes. >> That's what led Kelly. to our website at the end of last year. to fill out our case suggestion form.

asking [music] us to help her. So, I put one of our reporters, Taylor. Day, on it to help Kelly. >> [music]. >> And together, they have still been. uncovering new information, including. finding a witness who is near that. loading dock the morning that Spencer. was found. They were there when officers arrived, and they told us that to them, it looked. like a homicide right away. Now, the. witness who was at the loading dock the.

morning that Spencer was found asked to. remain anonymous for a number of. reasons, but we verified their identity. and the reason they had for even being. in that area, which was completely. unrelated to Spencer in any way. This. person told our reporter that they were. there when officers first arrived, and. they said that the officers were. immediately super dismissive, basically. just like, "Oh, another transient that. OD'd." Now, they may have jumped to that. conclusion because this place was an. area where sometimes transient folks.

would be. And on a few occasions, unhoused people would use that area to. camp out in. But the witness said that. they don't even know how they jumped to. that conclusion about Spencer because he. didn't have any of the telltale signs. that he was living on the streets. And. they took even bigger issue with the. fact that they were writing this off as. an overdose because this witness says. that they saw marks around Spencer's. neck, specifically a purple mark on the. back of his neck. And the witness said. that they spoke up immediately saying to.

the officers that this did not look like. an overdose. Which, if that's true, changes. everything. >> Yeah. >> So we knew what we had to do. Our. reporter goes to Kelly. >> [music]. >> and gets her to put in a records request. for the crime scene photos. >> Wait, so there were photos taken? >> There were photos. This is the one thing. they did do and did it well, it seems. [music] Now we had Kelly ask for them. because departments will often release. more information to families than they. will to media outlets. And sure enough,

they were willing to give them to her. Now she wasn't ready to see them, it's. why she had never requested them before. So she, as soon as she got them, forwarded them right along to us and. Brent. If this case wasn't confusing. enough, these pictures add a whole. 'nother layer. But one thing is clear as. day, and that's that Spencer's cause of. death is not clear. And there absolutely. should have been an autopsy to determine. how Spencer Irwin died. Now the photos.

we got are essentially. fully unredacted. So I could see a lot. of detail. When Spencer was found, he. was face down on top of a thick layer of. dirt and surrounded by discarded trash. He's fully nude and just like. investigators said, clear as day, there. are what look like snow angel marks. around the upper half of his body. But interestingly, nothing around the. lower half that would show like similar. movement. And we talked about decomp.

earlier. Spencer definitely had been. dead for at least a little while before. these photos were taken. Cuz when they. roll him over, you could see that. lividity was present and all the blood. had pulled to the front of his body. But. weirdly, his arms and his head were much. darker than the rest of him. Though it. was like kind of hard to tell like what. was dirt, what might have been decay. I. didn't know what that meant, but here is. the thing that I honed in on because. they got for high-quality crime scene. photos. I was like zoom zoom like. zooming in on his neck trying to see.

what this witness saw. Now, I couldn't. tell much from the back like his hair is. kind of in the way. But when they roll. him over, like right freaking there is a. line across Spencer's neck. Now, here is where I have to take a step. back. Like I've been doing this a long. time. I've seen my fair share of crime. scene and autopsy photos now, but. I don't want to do Spencer or Kelly a. disservice by getting carried away with. my opinion. I needed like a real. seasoned forensic pathologist to look at.

these pictures and tell me what we were. seeing. So, we got a hold of Dr. Priya. Banerjee, a board-certified forensic. pathologist who was gracious enough to. help us make sense of all of this. First. and foremost, the fact that Spencer was. found face down, nude, and [music]. outside is a red flag enough that an. autopsy should have been done. That's. what she said, full stop. >> which is what Kelly has been saying. >> Yeah. And Dr. Banerjee's next comment. was on those snow angel marks.

She said those didn't make sense to her. And honestly, she brought something up. that I hadn't even thought about. One. that the coroner's office surely didn't. think of. And it's that the marks could. have been completely unrelated. She says. this is a high-traffic area with. dumpsters like moving around and she. says the marks are almost too. symmetrical. She says it's like too. circular, like maybe something else. caused those before he was even there. And we asked her all of the things, of. course. I'm like, well, what if like. someone was on his back like holding him.

down and he's like flailing around, like. could that cause what we're seeing? And. she says, "No, still. It's too. symmetrical." And so then, you know, I. was like, "Well, you know, he abused. alcohol." And one thing that has kind of. like loomed over this case is the. possibility that he died of something. related to that. Like, could he have had. a seizure or something? And she said, "Nope. Like, with these marks, like, same thing. Like, >> [music]. >> you run into the same problem with them. being too symmetrical. That's not him. flailing.". >> him having some kind of medical. emergency related to his alcohol abuse. doesn't make any sense to me because. he's naked.

>> Agreed. And even in an overdose. situation, Dr. Banerji told us that. stripping down isn't something she. typically sees. The paradoxical. undressing, as she called it, is. typically seen in situations where the. body is super cold, like hypothermia. >> Right. I've seen that before. >> It's July in California. Like, it is not. cold. No. Him being undressed, though, helped in a huge way with Dr. Banerji's. assessment, because she could see. almost all of him. She could see that.

there were no signs he'd been in a fight. or in a struggle of any kind. There were. no bruising on his knuckles or anything. Now, the one thing I asked her about. specifically were his head and his arms. I told you they were a lot darker. And I. thought this like meant something. Thank. god we talked to an expert. She said, "No, this is actually something pretty. normal to see like when a body decays.". So, basically, when looking at it all, Dr. Banerji said, "There is a world. where she could see this being.

unsuspicious death. There is no external. trauma, you know, like the sheriff's. coroner is saying. So, maybe no foul. play." But she said, "The only way to. know that would be to do an autopsy.". She said, "You have to to connect the. dots, to rule out other options, or to. even prove their theory right.". >> Which their theory, we know, is wrong. because of the tox results. >> Yes. And listen, she clocked that same. straight line mark right under Spencer's. jawline that goes straight back. But she.

said there is a world where it isn't. suspicious. She said it might just be a. skin fold from like how he was laying. But it also could be a ligature mark. >> And the only way to know for sure would. be. >> Be an autopsy. Yes. So Dr. Banerjee. can't tell us from the pictures what. killed Spencer. But after her. consultation, what I am confident of is. that his case was mishandled from the.

jump in a way that would have serious. implications for its solvability down. the line. >> Did. In these pictures, did you see any of. his clothes or like other things? >> No, there's actually like a couple of. clothing items up on the dock itself, kind of like above Spencer, but we. showed images of just those to Cali and. she said those didn't look like. Spencer's things. So as far as we've. been able to tell, his stuff is still. missing, including that phone that we.

know he had on him when he was headed to. the Verizon store. >> Oh. >> But you want to know something weird. about that? >> Sure. >> Kate told our reporter that sometime. after Spencer's death, she was on. Snapchat and she saw Spencer's name pop. up as like a suggested friend. Like cuz. it's people in her contacts or whatever. But under his name is what stopped her. in her tracks because it was a username. she didn't recognize. It started with smiley and then it had.

six numbers after it. And when it hit. her who that could be, it stopped her. dead in her tracks. The six digits in the username that. popped up on Kate's phone. were an exact match for Angel's. birthday. Angel, whose middle name, by the way, includes. Smiley. And they know this for a fact because.

Kelly found Angel's driver's license in. Spencer's apartment with his full name. and date of birth. So, let's go back to Angel for a second. It turns out, we know he only knew. Spencer for like 3 weeks. Like I said, they met at that detox program that he. went to on the 10th. After that, Spencer. let Angel stay with him while they. waited for their spots to open up in the. rehab center. Angel was experiencing. homelessness, and Spencer had made it. his life's mission to help people in. similar situations to Angel. Now, when. Kelly was telling us about Angel and the.

way that he was basically integrated. into all the different aspects of. Spencer's life, you could have made us. believe that Spencer had known this guy. for years. And listen, being an. associate doesn't make him complicit. Neither does him being found in the. apartment the day before Spencer's body. is discovered and likely after he was. already dead. >> If that white Kia is really involved. >> Right, if. But, Angel lied about. Spencer's whereabouts. Like he's saying. that he checked in to the rehab place, which like doesn't make sense to me.

because they've been doing everything. together. You know Spencer's not coming. home cuz you're there. You didn't check. into rehab. So, like, what's up? >> And Spencer was on Kelly's phone plan, right? Like, did she pull the logs? Was. there any more activity? >> Oh, yeah. Again, she's a crime junkie. That's one of the first things she did. There was no outgoing activity after the. 27th. And only two numbers had like been. incoming after that. So, the phone. basically had stopped using her phone. plan. And in case you're wondering, yes, of course, police have all of this.

information, too. Initially, Kelly said. Fresno PD couldn't locate Angel to. question him despite getting his mom's. address where she heard that he spent. time. Now, Kate said that she was able. to talk to Angel through Facebook, and. she asked him if there was literally. anything he could tell her about could. have led to Spencer's passing. And. Brett, I'm actually going to have you. read his response. >> Ugh, I completely understand and I was. kind of expecting this message. To be. honest with you, I don't mind at all.

opening up to you. I just feel like it's. not fair to Spencer to talk to you about. this in the state/frame. of mind I'm in. And if it's okay with. you that we pick up on it tomorrow. Probably in the morning should work for. me. I just want to be in a more sober sort. of more genuine state of mind. I feel. like he deserves at least that. I have. nothing but good to say about him. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Except he doesn't follow up. Kate sent. us screenshots and she asked him about. the area where Spencer was found. She.

told him it didn't make sense why he was. over there. And Angel did respond to that, but just. with this short message. He said, "I've. never been there with him. That's odd. why he was over there. He's never. mentioned it.". So Kate messages him back asking about. Spencer's like state of mind, if he ever. saw Spencer hanging out with somebody. who drove a white Kia Soul, but nothing. Ghosted. Never got a response. And let. me tell you, Angel is not an easy guy to. track down. Our reporter has called so.

many numbers associated with him or his. mom, but they all led nowhere. Though I. will leave you with this one little. glimmer of hope. As we were wrapping up. our reporting, Kelly sent us an email. saying that Fresno PD located Angel and. interviewed him. And it was thanks to. that screenshot of the Snapchat. She. said they also got search warrants. signed and subpoenaed Spencer and. Angel's phone records to see if there is. any helpful location data. TBD on those. results, but like this more than.

anything to me feels like like progress. for the first time, right? And I'm. hoping that they're even looking beyond. just Angel because there is someone else. that Kelly has questions for. I told you. there were two numbers that had. contacted Spencer's phone after he. disappeared. Well, one ended up being. his therapist, but another they couldn't. identify. So, Kelly and Kate sent a text. to this number asking if it was Angel. And the reply was, "No, this is Happy.".

And this is where things like start. falling into place a little bit. Because. when Kelly and Kate were canvassing the. area trying to find people who had seen. Spencer, they had stopped at this one. smoke shop and were showing pictures of. Spencer. But, they had also brought. along a picture of another guy, one of. Spencer's neighbors who Spencer told his. mom he was having issues with right. before his death. This guy's name is Tyler. But, the person behind the counter looks. at that picture of Tyler and is like,

"Oh, that's Happy. He's a bad guy." Now, Tyler lived next door to Spencer, and he. was also in the Hope Program. And the. reason they'd been carrying around his. picture is because 2 weeks before. Spencer's death, Spencer allegedly told. his mom he was pretty sure that Tyler. broke into his apartment while he was in. the detox program and stole his money, his PlayStation, and a laptop. And at. the time, he was sure it had to have. been Tyler because he knew his door.

code. >> Is this someone that he had trusted? >> So, I don't think so, but for some. reason he told Kelly that Tyler was like. the only one who knew his key code. So, I don't know how he got it. >> Tyler and Angel. >> Well, yeah. Angel, but like I'm pretty. sure Angel came after his stuff was. already stolen. >> Got it. >> Now, Spencer didn't call the police at. the time. He wanted to like handle it. himself. And all we know about how that. worked out comes from Spencer's landlord. who said that after he accused Tyler of. stealing a bunch of guys came over with. knives and bats, I guess to like. intimidate Spencer.

But, Kelly said that Spencer locked. himself in his room, and then nothing. happened. Now, Kelly feels pretty. certain that Tyler did take the stuff. because as fate would have it, Kelly was. going through Facebook Marketplace and. she typed in Tyler's full name and sure. enough, there was a sale posted on. Facebook for a 2012 Lenovo ThinkPad, which is what Spencer supposedly had. There's even a picture with the specs. and Kelly showed her husband, Spencer's. dad, who is like an IT guy. Apparently, he like fixes and builds laptops all the.

time, so he's got like an eye for these. things and he tells Kelly he's pretty. confident that that laptop is the one. that he gave to Spencer for school. But, here's the thing, if Tyler took [snorts]. that stuff, that was back on like the. like 10th or or during that time, >> Yeah. >> it seems like he got away with it. because like nothing happened after. that. So, I don't know what motive Tyler. would have to do something to Spencer. >> And Kelly gave all this information to. police, too. >> Yeah, of course. She says that like. basically what she got back is they told.

her there's no connection or even proof. that the laptop like that he even stole. the stuff because they're like, "We. can't do anything without the receipt. for the laptop." Now, I don't know where. police stand with Tyler or if they're. investigating him at all. To me, like. I'd be like trying to run this laptop. down. Like, who has it now? Who did he. sell it to? You could probably do like a. forensic audit to like prove it was. Spencer without the receipt. I don't. know. Again, these are leads, but. they're still not proof of anything. And. there is a very real possibility that. we're looking at this all wrong. Maybe.

Spencer was in the wrong place at the. wrong time, which would take this. investigation down a completely. different path. Maybe Spencer died because of. complications related to his abuse of. alcohol. The problem is enough wasn't. done to prove anything, which. feels like a crime in and of itself to. me. That for almost 2 years, Kelly has. had to fight, to wonder, to investigate. lots of times on her own because the.

proper actions weren't taken early on. enough in the beginning to actually to. give her like an answer or peace. So, she has been looking for answers on her. own ever since. Reaching out to us was. one of Kelly's efforts to do that. She. also connected with a medium. Kate did, too. And their experiences were pretty. similar. It's not physical proof of. anything, but it has been helpful for. them. Both Kate and Kelly were told that. three people may have been involved in. Spencer's death. And the message that.

Kelly got from Spencer is that he wasn't. doing anything [music] wrong. It was. just wrong place, wrong time, wrong. people. The medium said Spencer wanted Kelly to. know that he was sorry for what. happened. And above all, he wanted her. to be careful. Kelly's being careful, but she is also. been a relentless investigator and. advocate for Spencer's story, not taking. no for an answer. And now that's starting to pay off. Kelly tells us now she's incredibly. hopeful for the work being put in by the. current investigator, Sergeant Antonio.

Rivera. She said that he is following up on. leads, contacting the right people, and. taking her seriously. The tragic irony of it all is how. Spencer cared so deeply and wanted to. help people, especially unhoused. individuals. Spencer talked a lot about. how if he could just save one soul by. helping someone through addiction, then. his own suffering would have been worth. it. And Kelly told us about this one time. when Spencer said he met this young guy. named Louie while he was walking on an.

outdoor trail one day. Spencer saw that. he appeared to be unhoused and he. stopped to talk to him. And Spencer said. that he wanted to give him hope. Spencer. even went back and took him some. clothing and some food. And this. happened like several years before. Spencer passed away. Well, a few days. after Kelly found out that Spencer had. died, she was sad, she couldn't sleep, so she opened Facebook in the middle of. the night and she had gotten this. message. And I'm going to read it for. you. It said, "I only knew Spencer briefly. I was. homeless and going through a very tough.

time in my life. I met Spencer at a park. one day and we chatted for a good while. and even hung out once or twice after. that. He was sincerely a shining light. in those dark times. One of the reasons. I made it through was because of people. like him who treated me so well and. pushed me to make things better. I've. since then been doing fairly well for. myself and can say I grew a lot. I never. would be able to say that if it wasn't. for him being the person he was. I cannot express my sorrow for what has. happened. I sincerely hope it brings.

comfort to those close to him to know he. helped save one soul. May he rest in. peace and may you all cherish in the. memory of him. >> [music]. >> as I will.". >> Mhm. Wow. >> Kelly has no clue how this guy found her. or remembered Spencer's name, but. that was the reminder she needed to see. that Spencer's life was purposeful and. he helped so many people along his. journey. Because to Spencer, everyone. was valued. But yet in his death,

responding officers assumed he was an. unhoused individual who overdosed and it. doesn't seem like they valued him at. all. They wrote him off immediately, ruining his chances at a proper. investigation. Like I said, Kelly has. been championing her son's story and I. truly believe that together, Crime. Junkies, we can get answers. I feel like. we are on the edge of a major. breakthrough. So if you have any information regarding.

the mysterious death of Spencer Irwin, you can contact the Fresno Police. Department directly at 559-621-7000. Or if you want to remain anonymous, you. can contact the Valley Crime Stoppers by. texting Valley to 738-477. And you can always reach us by emailing. [music]. tips@audiochuck.com. You can find all the source material for. this episode on our website [music]. crimejunkie.com. >> And you can follow us on Instagram at. crimejunkiepodcast. >> We'll be back next week with a brand new.

episode.