What Made Stephanie Casberg’s Case So Unusual?

Hi, Crime Junkies. I'm your host Ashley. Flowers. >> And I'm Britt. And the story I have for. you today is one that has hung over a. corner of Wisconsin for decades. In the. summer of 1969, a teenage girl walked. out of a restaurant after her. waitressing shift and was never seen. alive again. What turned up later, scattered in pieces across Racine. County, told investigators that they. were dealing with someone who had skill, patience, and time. Since then, this. case has pulled detectives [music] in. every direction from a co-worker whose.

own family has been pointing the finger. at him for years to a man who terrorized. his children by claiming he was the. killer. And just recently, a new lead surfaced, one that came straight [music] from a. Crime Junkie episode to a detective's. ears. This is the story of Stephanie Casberg. [music]. Wednesday afternoon, July 9th, 1969.

was a great [music] time for fishing in. Racine County, Wisconsin. The day was. overcast, low 70s with a little drizzle. If you found just the right spot on Root. River, you might catch a ton. One family out that day chose to set up. near an old steel trestle bridge on 8. Mile Road. The bridge had actually been. condemned a few weeks earlier, like shut. down to traffic because it's basically. falling apart, but that hasn't stopped. people from coming by, including this. family. At some point, while they're out.

there, their 10-year-old son makes his. way down the riverbank to fish or just. explore, whatever, but something on the. water's edge catches his eye. It's hard. to tell what it is from afar, just looks. like this weird lumpy pile of something, but definitely not natural to the river. Any kid would be curious. So, he inches his way closer and closer, but he stops himself when he realizes. what he's actually looking at. It's a foot.

And it sends him running back to his. parents, but the totality of what's. there is so much worse. In several piles. along the riverbank, half covered by mud. and in a mix of torn brown paper bags. and newspaper, were the dismembered. remains of a teenage girl, or at least most of her. What police. realized when they came to process the. scene is this girl's torso and left leg.

were missing. And even a river dive. never turns them up, which to police. isn't all that surprising because based. on the condition of the remains and how. they were found, investigators are. leaning toward the theory that they were. likely dumped there, not like that they. washed downstream. Now, despite what's. missing, there are other clues that have. been left behind, like the newspaper. used to wrap sections of the girl's. body. It was a Milwaukee Sentinel dated. June 24th. And pressed into some of the.

newspaper folds are cigarette butts. On. top of one of the piles, police collect. a brown leather shoe, and under the. remains were burned paper match sticks. Though none of the remains or the paper. itself actually looks burned. What had. been partially burned was a military. style jacket with all of its patches. removed that was like 8 ft away. And was. there blood or anything on the jacket? >> No, it was like caked in mud. It looked. like it actually might have been there. for a while, and it was an older style,

not something like current service. members would have been issued, more. like a fashion thing almost, like the. kind of things showing up in thrift. stores at the time. >> Okay. But that's pretty much all they. have to go off of as far as what is. found at the scene. What tells. investigators far more is what the. pathologist finds when he examines the. remains. He sees two small puncture. wounds beneath the right side of her. chin and a large cut across the back of. her neck. Most of the cuts are precise, almost.

scalpel-like. So, her probable cause of. death is listed as a neck wound, a. severed artery, but really, with no. torso, no organs, like that's just a. best guess based on what they have. Now, what the pathologist can determine is. that the dismemberment [music] happened. after she was already dead, and the cuts. at each joint are deliberate, methodical, like this is the work of. someone who knew what they were doing. Now, the level of decomposition suggests. that whoever this girl is, she died. within the last 24 to 48 hours of being.

found. And even though no one matching. her description has been reported. missing, it turns out that someone had. been missing her. Because that same. night, around 11:00 p.m., officials get. a worried call from Charles Casberg over. in Milwaukee. According to Journal Times. reporter Michael Osan, he and his family. had just been about to report their. teenage daughter Stephanie missing when. one of his children heard a news. bulletin about that had been found at.

Root River. They gave like a vague. description over the broadcast, but. Charles tells them about this small mole. on the right side of Stephanie's face, something that they hadn't mentioned was. on their Jane Doe, who. obviously isn't a Jane Doe anymore. Cuz. by the early hours of July 10th, Charles. confirmed that this was his daughter, Stephanie Casberg, whose 18th birthday. would have been the very next day. Her dad and even other members of the. family when they talked to them have no.

idea who would do something like this. Stephanie was hardworking, she kept out. of trouble. I mean, she just graduated. high school, and she was like eager to. be out on her own. She'd gotten a job. even before graduation, this part-time. job waitressing at a chain restaurant in. downtown Milwaukee called Mark's Big. Boy. And listen, more than just like. staying out of trouble, Stephanie was. kind. Our reporter Nina spoke to a woman. named Romaine who lived in her. neighborhood, who actually would later. marry one of Stephanie's brothers, but. she said that she has clear memories of.

Stephanie even though the two only. crossed paths briefly. And to Romaine, she was like that older girl who looked. out for the younger kids, the one who. made sure that everyone felt included. Stephanie did have a secret, though, that she had been keeping from her. parents. Detectives learned that Stephanie had. been seeing and actually gotten pretty. serious with a 22-year-old serviceman. named John. And was she keeping it a. secret because of his age? >> No, she was keeping it a secret because.

John was black. And while she had met. John's family and they seemed to openly. accept her, she apparently was afraid of. her parents' reaction. Sneaking around. with John is probably one of the reasons. Stephanie had been out of the house more. recently. So, her dad said that it. wasn't unusual that summer for her to. spend a few days at a friend's house. That's one of the reasons that they. hadn't called to report her missing. sooner. They'd seen her around the house on. Sunday, July 6th. Unbeknownst to them, John had dropped.

her off at home at like 4:00 in the. morning that day after a party the night. before. And when police talked to John, he says. that's the last time he saw her. Now, we. know she left her parents' house. sometime on the 6th between 5:15 and. 5:30. This is Sunday evening. [music]. And John was supposed to pick her up. from work when her shift ended around. 12:30 a.m. But apparently, he'd fallen. asleep. Co-workers said that Stephanie was mad. about it. I'd have been mad if my. boyfriend fell asleep and forgot to pick. me up. And so, the last they knew is she.

walked out the front door of the. restaurant with her brown leather purse. slung over her shoulder, maybe headed to. catch a bus. But that is truly the last. anyone saw her. And like I said, when. she didn't come home on Monday, her. parents figured that she was staying. with friends. And she was scheduled to. work that day, but she was a no-call, no-show. Though it doesn't sound like. anyone notified the Casbergs that first. day. Though I will say John had come by. the restaurant looking for Stephanie, which might have signaled that something. was up because the next day, Tuesday,

when she's a no-call, no-show again, that's when her supervisor called her. family to see if they knew what was. going on. >> [music]. >> And that set off this chain of family. calls looking for Stephanie. And then. before they could report her missing on. Wednesday, that broadcast came out. So, the 12:30 a.m. departure from the. restaurant becomes the last confirmed. moment anyone had eyes on Stephanie. And. as they start working outward from that. last known sighting, they do find a trail, but it's not.

Stephanie's. It's her killer's. Quiet coastal towns may seem peaceful, but they can harbor dark secrets. I'm. Kylie Low, host of Dark Down East, a. podcast that tells true crime stories. from my own New England community to. help victims and families get justice. Listen to Dark Down East wherever you. get your podcasts. >> [music]. >> The day after Stephanie's remains were.

discovered, residents in the nearby city. of Franklin, which is like 6 miles north. of that riverbank, they turn over a. cluster of items that had been sitting. along a rural road for at least two. days. There was this gold clutch style. purse, a blue appointment book, and. plastic wallet insert still holding. Stephanie's social security card and her. driver's license application. And mixed in all of that were pictures, like a couple copies of her graduation. portrait, and a photo of her father in. his Air Force uniform.

And then, ripped into fragments [music]. were pictures of like they're like a. photo booth style strip showing a young. woman who is alone in the photos. But. what's hard to tell is if the photos are. pictures of Stephanie. Like there is a. clear shot of this girl's face, and like. the dark-haired woman could very well be. her, but for some reason, no one's been. able to confirm that. That seems. bizarre. And all of these things, like. would that have all fit into the brown. purse that she had when she left the.

restaurant? >> Yeah, so the lead detective on this. case, Racine Sheriff's Lieutenant Brian. Van Sock, he told Nina that Stephanie. had this habit of bringing extra clothes. in her bag [music] and like swapping out. for her work uniform if she was going to. go somewhere after work or like even. ride the bus. So, while I haven't seen. the brown bag, I think the brown bag is. like a decent size and it gives at least. the assumption to investigators or what. the assumption that they've made is that. these are all things that would have. been in the purse that Stephanie had. with her when she first went missing. Which tells investigators something.

important. Someone was moving between. Milwaukee, where Stephanie lived, where. she worked, where the newspaper that her. body was wrapped in was from, and then. Racine County, where her remains were. dumped. And then they seem to have been. like shedding evidence along the way. And the window for when that happened. narrows when an attorney [music]. contacts the Sheriff's Department. He. says that on Monday in like the late. afternoon, early evening, he and two.

colleagues were out at the condemned. bridge doing a detailed ground survey. for a lawsuit. And he is adamant, if. remains had been there, they would have. seen them because they're not far from. the bridge. So, combine that with the. fact that witnesses in Franklin say that. the roadside items were there as early. as sometime on Tuesday. I think it's very likely that sometime. Tuesday to Wednesday morning is when her.

killer disposed of her. Which makes the. sighting of a man on Root River on. Wednesday just hours before Stephanie's. remains were found very interesting to. me. A few miles from where her body was. discovered, a man near another small. bridge over on Root River spotted. someone below. It was a white guy in his. late 40s down at the water either like. putting something into the river or. pulling something out. Whatever this guy was doing, he.

definitely wasn't fishing though. Right. And it stood out enough that this man. took the time to get a good look at this. guy. He was able to describe him to. police as a white guy about 5'11, 175. lbs, reddish hair, said that he was. wearing a white t-shirt and he had some. kind of bandage on one of his hands. >> that description we know that that. person isn't John. >> No. And this witness even clocked the. man's car, too. A white early 60s. Chevrolet parked just south of the.

bridge with what he believed were. Wisconsin plates, which by the way, isn't John's car either. He had a green. Camaro that was in the shop at the time. [music] And even then, he was driving. his sister's blue Mustang. And when he. gets asked, he lets police search his. car, his home, whatever. Nothing points. to John being involved in Stephanie's. murder. But there is this theory that. Stephanie might have been murdered. because of him. You see, this rumor. catches fire that Charles Casper, Stephanie's dad, somehow found out about.

Stephanie and John and that like they. were dating. and maybe like killed his own daughter. over the relationship. And does he fit. the description of bridge guy? No, he. doesn't. But at some point, I mean, this. rumor like gets big enough that like. investigators do go to him and they just. ask him point-blank, [music]. "Did you kill Stephanie?" And his. response took me aback even just like. reading it on paper half a century later. because. he apparently like chuckled and told.

them something like. "If I had, you never would have found. her.". Which is like. that's. I know. That's not the answer you should. be giving here. How long after they find her is he. saying this? I mean, she's found on the. 9th and then he is having this. conversation with detectives like on the. 11th. So. >> Oh my god. It's definitely odd. Yeah. But there doesn't seem to be anything to. back up these rumors beyond talk or.

whatever. Like the Casper house was. always full of people and Charles worked. second shift as as a dispatcher. So, presumably he was like on the job during. the overnight hours when Stephanie most. likely vanished. I'm sorry, presumably? >> I was just I was just going to say, although. I don't know if the police ever actually. like confirmed that, like got like his. actual like time cards or records or. whatever. There's actually another. Charles related rumor that made the. rounds. Romaine, who married Stephanie's.

brother, remember, she told us that. Charles was known to be a gambler. And. there was also some speculation that. maybe Stephanie's murder was like some. kind of violent retaliation for unpaid. debts. >> Uh this isn't feel like an unpaid debts. hit [music] to me. >> I agree. And it doesn't seem like that. or like the her dating John thing, like. either theory related to Charles, none. of it ever gains much traction with. investigators. What they keep circling. back to is Mark's Big Boy, the. restaurant that Stephanie worked at. It.

was like the anchor of her routine, set. hours, familiar faces, a world they could map. But that world. turns out to be. messy with reports of staff drinking on. the job, managers hitting on waitresses, shifts that ended late, >> [music]. >> and a cast of men who knew Stephanie's. schedule and routine. Like one of the managers who puts. detectives on alert almost immediately. with his eagerness. Like he wants to.

know if any of Stephanie's clothes were. found with her remains. He volunteers. unprompted that a woman on the radio, sort of like a psychic from the sound of. it, predicted the killer's initials, which by the [music] way happened to. match his own initials, which are RS. Okay. >> And then at the restaurant, there's also. this 20-year-old cook named Michael. Bartelt who catches their attention. [music]. Like John and a lot of other young men. at the time, he'd recently come home. from Vietnam. Now, Michael's version of.

the [music] night tracks with everyone. else's except for one detail. He says that Stephanie left work through. the restaurant's back door when she was. done with her shift, not the front. It's not a huge discrepancy, but what's. interesting is before they're even. finished with him, he asks if it would. be all right for him to like go ahead. with this trip that he had been planning. to Hawaii. He says like, "I've got the. plane ticket already. I've had it since. early July. Like I'll be leaving in a.

couple of days." And he's like, "By the. way, I've already quit my job at the. restaurant." But he is like letting them. know cuz he doesn't want like them. thinking he is guilty of something if he. just like takes off. Okay, he quit his job for vacation? It Well, it sound like from the sound of it, it. sounds like he plans to be gone for a. while. Maybe I should call it like a. temporary relocation instead of like a. just a vacation. He's I don't know how. much Yeah. And how long after. Stephanie's death is this? Like where in. the timeline are we? >> We're still within like days. So, police.

interview him on Sunday, July 13th. And. he says that he he didn't even quit that. day. He had quit the previous Friday, so. a few days even before that. >> And is Michael white guy? He is. >> And what does he drive? Nothing. He. doesn't have a car. I want to say like. did he sell it for the vacation? Like. now I'm questioning everything. >> Yeah. But they did check this guy's. record. They find nothing more than a. couple of like drunk and disorderly. incidents as an adult, so they clear him. to go off to Hawaii. Cuz I think really.

like at the time they're looking for. someone with like a darker history. Someone with more motive. So, they're. much more interested [music] in pursuing. a story that they hear from a former. waitress. She tells investigators that about a. month before Stephanie was killed, she. was [music] attacked while leaving the. restaurant at around 2:00 a.m. She said. a man grabbed her by the neck and told. her that he would slit her throat if she. screamed. So, she shoved him off, he. punched her in the stomach, and thank.

god another coworker actually came along. and beat this guy with her purse until. he took off, like miracle. Now, even. though this waitress was injured with. like a deep cut to her throat, she did. not report the assault because she. didn't think that she could identify the. man. Her and the other coworker just had. the same vague description of him. White. guy, maybe early 20s, 5'5 to 5'6, light. blonde hair, wearing a white jacket and. shoes with cleats. But they're telling. police now, and what really stands out. is the MO cuz there had been, it turns.

out, a string of attacks across downtown. Milwaukee following this kind of same. playbook. Women targeted while walking. alone, a man with a sharp object, threats involving cutting and sexual. assaults. In fact, one happened not long. after Stephanie's remains were found. This woman was attacked in a parking lot. and then stabbed in the shoulder before. the culprit fled in her car. Which by the way, made him an easy. catch. They catch the guy. Again, this is days.

after Stephanie's found. He's a. 17-year-old busboy from Milwaukee's. south side. But they can't tie him to the Big Boy. attack that happened before Stephanie's. murder and they can't seem to tie him to. Stephanie's murder either. And he never. admits to either even though he. confesses to violent crimes against four. other women. >> Oh my god. Now, police search this guy's. house, but without his confession or. evidence linking him to Stephanie, like nothing comes of it. They move on. >> And if he was 17 then, like.

where is that guy now? Oh, I checked for. sure. He. >> [laughter]. >> He Well, so he got convicted of rape. He. spent the next like [music] 6 years. cycling between like prison and a mental. health institution, but as far as I can. tell, now he's like alive and out in [music]. the world. But the only record he has. since then is like for some traffic. violations. And listen, like that's not. even the only. that they look at, by the way. At one. point, detectives get two urgent calls. from an anonymous tipster who insists. that an 18-year-old who killed Stephanie.

after some kind of argument is about to. flee town by [music] bus. Sure enough, they find this guy, nab him. at the bus station right as he's about. to board, but he swears that he's. leaving because of a family matter, not. because he's like running from anything. [music]. And he says that he doesn't even know. Stephanie, though he does know her. boyfriend, John. Police, like obviously. keep this guy for a little bit. They. question him. They end up verifying that. he was working during like this key. window of time when Stephanie like left.

work and they think something happened. And so they let him go. And this is like the wild part. They. actually come to believe that he was the. tipster that called the tip on himself. >> Wait, what? They said that he did it or. they think he did it as some kind of. ploy to get attention or sympathy from. this girlfriend that he'd been arguing. with, which is like a weird level of. manipulation and like like devious that. is, to me, right on par with like. physical attacks.

>> Yeah. >> So I wasn't surprised to learn that. though this guy likely had nothing to do. with Stephanie's case, he did turn out. to be a dirtbag. His record after 1969. is a long one. Armed robbery, sexual. assault charges, in and out of Wisconsin. prisons for decades. So, long story short, police are chasing. down everything in the first couple of. weeks, but they are getting nowhere. There are no sightings that are coming. up of Stephanie like filling in that.

like lost time where we don't know where. she was. Her purse, that brown leather. shoulder bag style thing, still MIA. And there are three agencies trying to. coordinate efforts. You got Milwaukee, where she went missing, Franklin, where. some of her belongings were found, and. Racine, where some of her remains were. found. The place that they still didn't even. have, though, was a crime scene. Everything about the crime points to. someone who had time, who had control,

and privacy. Not just to dismember her, but perhaps, they wondered, to keep. missing parts of her. Though they would. find out within weeks that actually. wasn't the case. It didn't happen until. Monday, July 21st, but that's when a. couple on a farm, about 4 [music] and. 1/2 miles from the bridge, finds bones in their yard. Their dog, I guess, had been like. dragging them home for a couple of weeks.

by then. But it was the human pelvis that made. someone realize these weren't just. animal [music] bones. And detectives, when they get brought out, they end up. locating this weather-beaten white. cardboard sun-kissed box half buried in. heavy brush just off the side of the. road. But it's only like 250 feet or so. from this family's farmhouse. And at the. bottom of this box is a dirty towel with. pubic hairs on it. And inside and then. scattered around it, I mean, they find a.

lot of bones, a rib cage, a spine, like. other missing parts of Stephanie. Cuz. these definitely belong to Stephanie. They fit together perfectly with the. rest of her. But even still, there are. parts that are still unaccounted for. Her upper right leg from like her hip to. her knee, and then her entire left leg. Though I will say like it's possible. they were there at one point, but then. over the course of like the two weeks. before this is found, maybe they got.

carried off by those family dogs or even. other animals in the area. But like. think about what this means. This is a. second deliberate disposal site. >> Yeah, I was going to say like why not. leave this with the rest of her by the. river? Like now you're miles away and. kind of super close to someone's house. >> what I'm like this person is like making. multiple stops, multiple decisions. It's. someone comfortable moving through rural.

backroads with a body in pieces. >> Well, and then like there's evidence. other places, too. I know. So like when. you're looking at this, the distance. between the farthest points, so from Big. Boy to the farmhouse, it spans nearly 25. miles. Whoever did this seems to know. the area or at the very least like moved. through this area with habits. >> So if you take that with what the. pathologist said about this person. knowing what they were doing in the. dismemberment, this starts feeling less.

and less. like a one-off. But that's the thing. They don't have anything else around. their area at the time that looks. exactly like this case. According to. Journal Times reporter Barbara Heffling, in the years surrounding Stephanie's. death, there were multiple unsolved. killings across the region. Young women. who were stabbed or bludgeoned, their. bodies left along railroad tracks and. rural roads in Racine and Milwaukee. counties. I mean, one victim's. decomposed remains were found like. stuffed in a bag even along railroad.

tracks the same month that Stephanie was. discovered. We have another one that was. like beaten to death and dumped along a. county road. And when you look at these. like the geography overlaps, but the. methods are so different. And there is. nothing concrete tying or making any. connection between Stephanie's [music]. case and these other cases. So investigators begin watching for like. this specific MO beyond their own. backyard. And the first case that comes. on their radar happens about 7 months.

after Stephanie's murder. That's when a. young woman, 6 hours away in Detroit, Michigan, is found dismembered in a. vacant field. [music]. Body parts are in plastic bags, torso is. missing, >> [music]. >> and there were cuts that were done. precisely with a large knife. And good. news, Detroit police even make an arrest. in that case. Two, actually. Both men. are cooks at a local restaurant there. >> Which feels kind of promising, right? >> Kind of, yeah. And so investigators.

start circulating photos of these two. guys through Stephanie's world. They. show them to her coworkers at Big Boy, friends, acquaintances. The problem is. nobody can say for sure if they. recognize these guys. Stephanie's father. and brothers don't, but the outlier is. Stephanie's mother, who reportedly. identifies one of the two men as someone. who had picked Stephanie up at their. home before. But that lead fizzles out because both. men say that they were working during. the time frame of Stephanie's murder,

and they deny ever being in Milwaukee or. Racine areas. And it seems like police can't find any. evidence actually tying them to the area. even or to Stephanie. And so that is about when the case. begins to go cold. For 19 full years, nothing really. happens, and Stephanie's family have to. figure out how to keep moving while a. killer walks free. Someone who might. have been passing them at the grocery. store or serving them a meal. And it.

probably would have stayed cold for even. longer. if not for one woman. who I'm going to call Pam. Pam calls detectives out of the blue one. day in 1988 to tell them that she thinks. she knows who killed Stephanie Caspers. She believes it was her brother, Michael. Bartelt, the cook at Big Boy who told.

investigators that he last saw Stephanie. leave [music] through the restaurant's. back door. Not the front door like. everyone else said. And Pam says that. she believes Michael might have had help. from one of their other brothers, who. I'm going to call Dan. Now, remember. that trip to Hawaii, the one Michael. told police like he'd been planning, tickets already in hand? >> Yeah. Pam says that was all BS. Never. had tickets, didn't even go to Hawaii, at least not at the time. Instead, Michael took off somewhere with.

friends and was gone for like close to a. year. So. he didn't go to Hawaii, but he did leave. after all. He did, correct, but not to. Hawaii. So investigators wonder if the. story was a way to like make his sudden. vanishing act look planned. And I don't. know, I'm guessing he said like you're. going to go away anyways, why not tell. them where you were going? >> Yeah. I'm kind of guessing maybe Hawaii. sounded far enough that they wouldn't. come knocking. >> like a vaca- it's it's like a for sure. vacation.

>> he didn't want them to know where he. was. And listen, Pam says that their. mother helped sell that story cuz they. did go question his mom back in '69. And. Pam apparently listened in on the. conversation and heard her mom tell. investigators like, oh yes, Michael did. go to Hawaii, even though Pam's like he. absolutely did not. And by the way, she. said their mom told them back then like, oh, Michael doesn't own a gun. They must. have asked him that. No, he doesn't own. a gun. But Pam's like, by the way, she. lied to you about that, too. >> [music]. >> He definitely did own a gun.

And according to Pam, this kind of. behavior from their mom was typical. Like she would routinely lie to protect. [music] her sons. Pam also points out that the Bartelts. have family in the area. Their uncle. lives between the two dump sites, about. a 3-mile drive from where the sun-kissed. box was [music] found, and less than a. mile and a half from the riverbank. Which, by the way, investigators realize. is actually visible from parts of that.

[music] family property. And Pam says. that Michael spent years fishing and. hunting in that area. He knew it well. But beyond all of this, one of the main. reasons that she suspects him, forget. the geography, forget the fact that he. knew Stephanie. She says it's what he. did to his own family. Because Pam. alleges that Michael sexually abused her. and others. And Michael did have a. juvenile charge for indecent behavior.

with a child. >> I thought they checked his record. His. adult record. Now, police knew about the. juvenile charge at the time I found out, but for whatever reason, they didn't. seem to make much of [music] it. And on. top of that, Pam also says that Michael. was running with a gang back then. So, why does she think her other brother. Dan's involved? Like did he know. Stephanie, too? Not that I'm aware of, but Pam basically says that Dan also. sexually abused her and that about a. month after Stephanie's murder, he had. some kind of mental breakdown and had to.

be hospitalized, which. she sees as a potential reaction to him. feeling guilty, which I think is. interesting. But it seems like police at. this time are like much more focused on. Michael. [music]. Who, by this point, has actually. relocated to Hawaii, where he was living. with his wife. But he would have been. wrong if he thinks that they're not. going to come knocking for this. [music]. So, investigators coordinate with law. enforcement out there. And in June of. '88, this is almost 6 months after Pam. originally calls in and tips them off.

This detective sits down with Michael. And surprisingly, I mean, to me at. least, he is cooperative and agrees to. talk to them. He describes Stephanie as. someone that he barely knew and implies. that he had no interest in her sexually. >> He was already dating a few other women. who like worked at the restaurant at the. time. [music]. Sure, fine, whatever. It's not even like. he said they were close like back then. or anything. But now, in '88, he is. putting major distance between them. Because his story changes. [music].

Before, he says that he saw Stephanie. leave out the back door when she was. done with her shift at 12:30. Now, he says that he typically clocked. out around 10:30, 10:45 at night, which. would have put him out the door well. before Stephanie left at 12:30. >> So, he's saying that he doesn't remember. seeing her leave at all. This is the problem. He's not committing. to anything now. He's just saying that. he probably wouldn't have seen her leave. because he probably wouldn't have been. there at that time. [music] And what.

does he say about the whole Hawaii of it. all? He admits that he didn't go to. Hawaii back then. He says he actually. went to Las Vegas with the manager from. the restaurant, the one that gave police. like creepy vibes, along with a woman. that that manager was dating. >> [music]. >> But he's like, "Listen, I had I had. police's blessing to go." Uh no, they. cleared you to go to Hawaii. No one said. anything about you going to Vegas with. your creepy manager. It doesn't seem. like that answer rubs detectives the. wrong way, I guess because it's not like.

they went looking for him. So, like they don't press him on that. And. the bottom line is Michael denies any. involvement in Stephanie's [music]. murder. All these years later, they. don't have much that they can do to. prove or disprove what he's saying, either. They're like in [music] that. weird spot before technology can even. help. >> Mhm. So, since they only have Pam's. account, the case goes cold again. But. Pam's account includes someone else.

Like did they ever even interview Dan? They did a few times, yeah. But like he. denied being involved in like murder or. like sexually assaulting anyone. So. really, I mean, I think at this point. they're like. they got to wait for technology to. [music] advance. Like right? I mean, '88, you can see it coming, right? Like. it's just around the corner in the '90s. But even with what they have, like. really what they're working with in this. case is pubic hairs, so early '90s can't. do much with that, either. Those don't. get sent off until 2009. And when they do, though, they actually.

get something promising. Even for 2009, when I saw that, I was like, "Oh, it's. going to be too early to do anything.". No, two of the pubic hairs produce two. different partial male DNA profiles. Only one of them is strong enough for. state databases. [music]. No match there, though. Neither is good enough for the national. database CODIS. Okay, but can they tell. if the two profiles are related? >> Not with what.

>> Not with what they have. The profiles. aren't strong enough to make that. determination. And by the way, it. doesn't even mean that two men were. involved. It just means that at least. two different men left hairs on this. towel somehow. >> Right. Where did the towel come from? How did it even get in the box? Where. did the box come from? Is this your. killer's DNA? Maybe, maybe not. But I do. think finding the person who belongs to. these hairs has a very high likelihood. of getting you at least one step closer.

to your killer. >> And by the way, a partial profile is. good enough for comparison to a full. profile. So, you can go one by one and. do direct comparisons. If someone comes. on their radar when the case gets. reinvestigated. Like this can be used as. a tool to help rule people in or out. And the first two people they test are. Michael and that suspicious manager who. gave police the bad vibes back in '69. And both are ruled out. But I will say.

the sample they had from Michael Bartelt. was shaky cuz it was covertly obtained. from a plastic fork that he had used in. 2012. So, even with that, like they didn't have. much confidence in those results. And. then the next person they end [music] up. checking is this guy named Wilbert. Mackie. He hadn't come up at all in the. case file. >> [music]. >> Well, an anonymous caller puts him on. police's radar in 2015. And he's an. interesting lead, for sure, because.

it turns out that he lived on 8 Mile. Road, like less than 10 minutes from. that Root River condemned bridge where. her remains are found. And the story. behind this lead is wild. So, the caller. says that one of Wilbert's son, who. lives down in Florida, has been talking, claiming that his father was a serial. killer who butchered a young woman and. dumped her near Root River in the late. '60s. And that Wilbert forced his own. daughter, who was just a child at the.

time, to help him dispose of the body. Now, [music] police can't talk to. Wilbert about any of this because he. died in prison in 2009 [music]. at the tail end of a 20-year sentence. for child sex offenses. [music] I mean, it sounds like he's a pretty strong. contender right out of the gate. Yes, but in late 2016, investigators do track. down two of his adult children, including the daughter who was allegedly. forced to help dispose of the body.

>> Mhm. Now, she describes a father who was. cruel and abusive, like in every way, physically, sexually, psychologically. She says that he was obsessed with. Stephanie's case and with like true. detective magazines. He would make the. kids read what he called Root River. Killer stories out loud and then tell. them everything the stories got wrong, which he says he knew because he was the. real killer. And his daughter says she. does have this early childhood memory of. being forced to throw heavy, sticky bags.

into Root River. And her father told her. to make sure that they sank. Afterwards, she said Wilbert scrubbed. his car clean. And their family property. was overrun with dogs, like more than a. hundred of them. And when they got sick, Wilbert would kill them, butcher them, and then feed them to the other dogs. I'm telling you, like this dude was the. stuff nightmares are made of. But as. damning as all of this sounds, none of. it was provable. Investigators nowadays.

can't even confirm that, you know, he. called it the Root River Killer. Like. they don't even know that as a real. moniker. Like it was never used by the. media, it was never used by law. enforcement. So, there's a world where. Wilbert just invented it to terrorize. his kids. And listen, moniker aside, they do get a DNA sample from one of. Wilbert's sons to compare against the. pubic hair. No match. Although, that son tells police that.

there are rumors he may not even be. Wilbert's biological child. So, like. there's this moment where they're like, "Does this mean anything?". >> Yeah. But luckily, there was still a sample of. Wilbert's DNA in CODIS because of his. [music] record. So, they do end up doing. a better comparison. It's still not a match. So, he fades out of the picture. But. speaking of families pointing fingers at. their own, just a few years ago, one of Michael. Bartelt's brothers came forward claiming.

that he, too, was suspicious of Michael, just like Pam was. And I'm assuming this. brother is not Dan. No, this is a. different brother. This guy reaches out. to Romaine after she was interviewed. about Stephanie's case for a news. segment. And he tells Romaine that he is. confident that Michael killed Stephanie. And that like the whole family has a. theory about what happened and why. Certain members of the Bartelt family.

have always suspected Michael to [music]. be Stephanie's killer. There was even a rumor within the family. at some point that Michael's wife found. one of Stephanie's earring in the car. that he'd been using and that she had. been holding it ever since, like stored. in a safe deposit box that her sister. has, [music] using it as leverage over. Michael or as like an insurance policy. or maybe both. Now, this is a little. confusing to me because it doesn't seem. like Michael was involved with his wife.

when Stephanie was killed. They didn't. marry until 3 years later. And like she didn't go with him to. Vegas. So, when or how she would have. found this earring doesn't make a whole. lot of sense in my mind. [music]. But this does hold some decent weight. for investigators because when Stephanie. was found, she did have an earring in. one ear but not the other. So, the. theory that this family has goes like. this. Michael borrows a car. Remember, he didn't own one. >> Right. [music] He lures Stephanie into. it by offering to show her an apartment.

for rent. And we know for a fact that. after graduating, she was wanting more. independence and her and John were. supposedly even talking about trying to. get a place together. So, this would. track. And a lot of people knew that she. was like itching to get out of her. parents' house. So, I'm sure this is. something that she probably even talked. about at work. So, after he got her in. the car, the family believes. something went wrong. He may have made. advances toward her or drugged her. And. then after he killed her, he disposed of. her in areas that he knew well.

near where that relative of theirs. lived. Oh, where would he have killed. and dismembered her though? That's the. part they don't know because he was. living at home at the time. So, it couldn't have been there. Maybe on. their uncle's property? Question mark. But like like that is a big gap I think. in their theory. Now, when this makes it. to the current investigator, Lieutenant. Vansock, he goes back through the file. and he finds something that will make. you want to pull your hair out. That.

thing about the earring Mhm. that was. part of Pam's story when she came to. them in '88. For whatever reason, I. guess the detectives just like didn't. hone in on it. You said they needed a. thing. Like that's. >> That's that's the thing. >> That's the thing. >> I know, but there might have actually. been a good reason that like no one. clung onto this. I found out that in. early news coverage, it mentioned that. she was found wearing only one earring. So, in theory, anyone could have known about. that. But still, like even all these.

years later, when Vansock is like. reading about this, he's like he's still. intrigued. And with little else to go on. in an ice cold case, he and other. investigators start trying to chase this. down. This was in 2023. But Michael's wife, now [music] his. ex-wife, tells police that she has no. idea what they're talking about. Meanwhile, her sister, the one who. supposedly had the earring in in her. possession in that safe deposit box, [music] seems genuinely bewildered by. the question. And when they subpoena. bank records, they confirm the sister.

didn't even have a safe deposit box, at. least not at any bank. So, that trail. goes nowhere. But Vansock keeps pulling. at the Bartelt thread. And there's a discrepancy buried in the. old records that's hard to explain. So, remember how Michael told police in. 1969 that he saw Stephanie leave through. the back door of the restaurant? [music]. Yes, but also that he probably clocked. out at 10:30. Well, apparently not that. either.

Because according to his time card, he wasn't even working that night. What do you mean? How is that not caught. right away? How Why was I. I have no idea because investigators had. everyone's time cards. As a matter of. fact, police reports from 1988 say that. they confirmed Michael was working that. night during the same hours as. Stephanie. The schedule seems to be one. of the main reasons police were even. interested in him in the first place. >> But think about how much more suspicious.

it is if the time card is accurate and. he wasn't on the clock because then he's. not just like a co-worker who happened. to be on the same shift. He lied his way. into the narrative and made himself one. of the last people to have seen. Stephanie alive. [music]. Still, before Lieutenant Vansock goes. straight to Michael in Hawaii, he decides that he needs to like. strengthen his position for the courts. out there. So, he sends the hair. evidence he has back to the lab hoping.

that like modern technology can pull a. stronger profile than the partial one. they had from years earlier. It's going. to take a little bit more time, but it. could be well worth it. >> Yeah. Well, it turns out that was a. risky gamble in a case so old because. Michael died of sepsis on June 3rd, 2024. before detectives could get to him. But. at least now, a DNA sample from him was. easy to get. And maybe things wouldn't.

have changed much even if he had gone. sooner or the DNA had been faster or. Michael wouldn't have died because. his DNA doesn't match the hair. Now, remember, DNA exclusion doesn't necessarily clear. him or anyone. A non-match just means. that that specific hair didn't come from. him. But it's worth noting that Michael. and that manager aren't the only ones. who have been excluded. Investigators. also ruled out Michael's brother, Dan. So,

them plus Wilbur Mackie, right? Yeah, they've all been eliminated from the. hair. So, I kind of want to go back to something. that you mentioned at the top. Like with. all those rumors that were floating. around, did they ever test it against. Stephanie's dad? I know it's like. sensational but like nobody really seems. to believe that he was involved in any. way. And all they have is this this. these hair samples, right? Like could. they test the cigarette [music] butts or. the the newspapers or anything else from. back then? >> did test the cigarette butts. There was.

no DNA on them. There was nothing on the newspaper, like. no usable prints or anything like that. They even tried recently using a wet. back extraction system, like M-Vac, on. the military jacket. Like that was like. found by the river. >> like burned, yeah. Mhm. They did it on. that and they did it on the towel that. was in the Sunkist box. And the initial. results from those showed male DNA on. both but the quantities were too low to. actually build a full profile or to even. determine if any of them like matched. each other or the partial that they were. getting from the hair.

>> samples, yeah. So, right now, they're. just waiting on further testing. [music]. And they're hoping that the same. advances in DNA technology that have. cracked other cold cases. means that maybe they'll be able to. crack this one one day. Or at the very. least get that partial profile to a. better spot that they could put it in a. national database. And that's really. important because even though Lieutenant. Vansock thought of Michael as a really. good suspect for a while, his current working theory is that. Stephanie was killed by a stranger. He. doesn't believe that Michael had the.

skill to do what was done to Stephanie. [music]. He thinks that it's more likely that. Stephanie left the restaurant mad at her. boyfriend for not picking her up and. gotten a car with someone that she. didn't know. >> [music]. >> And that person. took her somewhere, sexually assaulted. her, killed her, and then dismembered. her. He doesn't know who that person is. yet. But a new name was added to the case. file just recently. One that actually started with us.

So, last summer, Lieutenant Vansock was. outside doing some yard work listening. to our episode on Kristen David. And at. the end of that episode, if you. remember, I did this call out. And for. anyone who doesn't remember, Kristen was. a young woman who went missing in 1981. while riding her bike on a highway. between two cities in Idaho. We're not. even talking about Wisconsin. >> Right. But her remains were later found. in garbage bags in and along Snake. River. Like Stephanie, she'd been. dismembered with surgical-like precision. and she'd been wrapped in newspaper.

And and one of her legs was never. recovered. Well, and if I remember. correctly, the call out at the end like. you specifically have been looking for a. guy who. was military that the FBI was looking. into for like connections to other cases. across the country. And you were like, "Hey, like are there more?". >> Right. Because the FBI opened an. investigation into this guy but like. nothing came of it. That is something we are still. investigating but I thought more cases. might be the key to cracking some kind.

of pattern. And I know I've told you this before but. when Lieutenant Vansock heard that call. out, he basically like dropped his mower. because it sounded like this case. [music] to him. And when he contacted us. to compare notes and he learned that. this man has major ties to the Midwest. and possibly Wisconsin, he got he's a chills. I'm going to call. them full body chills, yeah. >> Now, Nina has actually been out to. Racine since then to meet with. Lieutenant Vansock and he's making the.

hero wall because like I'm still not. ready to name this other suspect yet. He. is still alive as of this recording and. we're still trying to get a handle on. the scope of his potential activities. And now, all that's been ongoing for. more than a year now. But Lieutenant. Vansock has been like moving heaven and. earth in that time to see if this man. can be definitively tied to anything. [music]. And it has been an uphill battle. Logistics, bureaucracy, jurisdictional. barriers at every single turn but I have. never seen anyone put up the kind of.

fight that he has. And he gets people to. move. It is incredible. Now, I need to. say Romain Casper still believes that. Michael killed Stephanie. And listen, nothing is off the table. This case is. not closed and Vansock isn't letting it. sit. So, his goal is to rule everyone in. or out definitively and eventually solve. this [music] case. Solve it for. Stephanie but also solve it for her. family. Romain's son, Nick, was born more than a.

decade after Stephanie was killed. So, he never got to meet his aunt. But he. told us he felt the emotional toll that. Stephanie's death took on his dad, her. brother. I mean, this is the kind of. loss that doesn't stay in one. generation. It ripples forward. >> Mhm. So, if you know anything about what. happened to Stephanie, the Racine County. Sheriff's Office wants to hear from you. You can call their Detective Bureau at. 262-636-3225. [music]. But if you'd rather stay anonymous, you. can reach Crime Stoppers at [music].

888-636-9330. I'll also give you a way to text in the. show notes.