What Led Seven Missing Women to the Horsch House of Horrors?

Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley. Flowers. >> And I'm Brit. >> And the story I have for you today is a. case that's unfolding right now in North. Philadelphia. At the center of it is a. house that people have compared to. something out of a horror movie. Connected to [music] at this moment at. least seven missing women. As of this. recording, nobody has figured out where. these women are or exactly how the two. men who lived in that house could be. connected to their disappearances, if at.

all. [music]. But there is still a lot to wrap your. head around. And I think this might be. one of the biggest cases of the year. So, since all of you have been in our. DMs asking us to connect the dots and. see what we could find out about Eugene. and Raymond Horsch, this is the still. developing story of the Horsch House of. Horrors. Okay, Brit, before we jump in, like just. a little bit of a caveat. So, like every.

episode, our investigative reporters and. producers were pounding the pavement, like pulling records, reaching out to. sources, but this one is a bit of a. different game for us because we're not. telling a story that is complete or. [music] happened decades ago. We are. literally getting new information every. [music] single day. But I'm going to. tell you what we know so far. So, this. whole thing started unfolding just a few. months ago on Friday, June 19th, 2026.

That's when a park ranger is near. Independence Mall in Philadelphia, just. [music] like steps from the Liberty. Bell, when he spots this black BMW. parked somewhere it shouldn't be. So, he. walks over to check it out, and that's. when he hears a woman's voice from. inside the car saying, "You're going to. hurt me." Now, he gets even closer so he. can look through the car's window. And. in the driver's seat, he sees this. middle-aged man and then the woman. And. just one look at them tells this ranger. that this is probably going to turn into.

more than just like a simple request for. them to move their car because both of. them have visible soores, like the kind. he knows sometimes comes [music] from. drug use. They also have some drug. paraphernalia that he can spot through. the window. So, he asked them both for. IDs. [music]. And this is where things go from routine. to the bizarre because what they end up. learning is that both of these people. have [music] fake IDs on them. The. Mayans is a fake DEA badge which is like.

no good. >> This is definitely not just like a hey. move your car situation with a fake. [music] federal badge. But the woman's. is somehow even more concerning because. even though her ID looks legit at first. [music] glance, like with her picture on. it and everything, when the park ranger. runs it, it turns out that the. information on the ID belongs to a woman. named [music] Blair Tanzelli. And Blair. Tanzelli has an open missing person's.

case [music] on her. The real Blair was. last heard from more than 3 years before. this in August of 2022 and then she had. been officially reported missing in. February of 2023. Now they identify the man that she's. with as 44year-old Eugene Horsch. So. this is now officially above the park. rangers pay grade. So police get called. in and they bring in the real DEA. agents. And once Eugene is taken into.

custody, he admits to officers that he. is a convicted felon, which makes the. other stuff that they find on him and in. his car real bad news for Eugene. He's. got a switchblade and a glass pipe on. him. And in the car is crack cocaine, another switchblade, a cattle prod, a. collapsible baton, and a set of. handcuffs. Oh, and by the way, two. loaded guns. At least one with the. serial number filed off. I mean, I was.

going to say huge red flag, but that's. like a barrage of red flags one after. another. >> Now, authorities learned that Eugene. owns a house at 417 West Chu Avenue in a. neighborhood called Alni. So, within. hours, law enforcement's headed there. with a search warrant in hand to see. what else Eugene might have going on. And listen, moral of the story, sometimes you can judge a book by its. cover. Because even from the outside, this house, a crumbling three-story. brick [music] twin, is bad vibes. I.

mean, the second and third floor windows. are boarded up. There are bars on the. first floor windows, and there's a. security camera pointed right at the. street. But truly, as bad as it looked. from the outside, I don't think anyone. could have imagined that what they were. walking into would be so disturbing that. this house would become infamously known. as a house of horrors. Cuz this was not. a quick in-n-out search. Police ended up. securing the whole neighborhood.

Investigators in hazmat suits were going. in and out of the house over the course. of days, which gets the attention of. local news and social media. [music]. Eventually, Deputy Police Commissioner. Frank Venor gets in front of cameras for. a press conference. Venor says that they. found [music] some stuff that I think. would be pretty normal for a search. involving the DEA, right? Like a gun, over a 100 pieces of ballistic evidence, [music] a marijuana grow operation. But. then there were other things that they.

couldn't quite [music] explain. Hidden. compartments, a makeshift laboratory. setup of some sorts in the basement. I. mean, so many chemicals that. investigators say some could be. dangerous if the wrong ones got mixed. together. And a 55gallon drum hooked up. to the water lines that like ran down. into a hole in the ground. What does. that even mean? So what was going. through those lines or where it was. going, nobody has officially said. Venor.

called it a quote strange setup, but I. think Eugene could have maybe been. making something, maybe irrigating. something. I mean, remember, we've got a. grow operation. So it could have just. been part of a system for watering. plants. I mean, this early on, they. can't say what any of this means. They. just started processing this [music]. house, and they still have a lot of work. ahead of them. I mean, there are a. thousand questions from reporters and. from the community after this, but few. answers are [music] given, at least not.

that day. But the slow drip of. information doesn't always come from. behind a podium. Local reporters, working sources begin to shine a light. on the [music] true scope of what was. found in that house. Now, Max Marin over. at the Philadelphia Inquirer spoke to us. for this episode. He has been working. with this core team of four, including. him, who have been dedicated [music] to. this case. So, it's him, Ryan W. Briggs, Ellie Rushing, and Barbara Laker, among. others. Now, Max told us that when this.

first broke, they honestly thought that. this was going to be some big drug case. But once the details started coming in, a missing woman's ID, a 55gallon drum in. the basement. He said it was hard to not. let your mind go to dark places. [music]. And the more that kept coming out, the. darker it got. Sometime after that first. press conference, police [music] sources. tell reporters that they found something. else. What looks like a significant.

amount [music]. of blood. No other detail. There are. also five urns containing cremated. remains. Now, one of them has a name on. it, a relative of Eugene, >> but the other four. >> mystery. Venor said that it could be. other relatives, but truly they didn't. know. But this other thing that comes. out is a bit harder to just like explain. away. They find a handwritten [music]. letter, like real disturbing stuff. It. describes hurting people. It references.

zip ties, a drum, and serial killer Ted. Bundy. And this is when people start. [music] going wild and the story begins. to spread beyond the Philadelphia area, which is why Deputy Police Commissioner. [music] Venor moved fast to shut down. some rumors spreading online because. already people were saying that there. were bodies in the house. But he assured. reporters nothing like that had been. found anywhere on the property [music]. that they know of yet. But the truth is.

what they had found had them make the. decision to have homicide detectives. leading this up. [music] So you can. imagine that nothing really quieted. down. The public was clamoring for more. information about the man at the center. of this and about the missing woman. whose stolen information seemed to. really kick this investigation off, Blair Tanzelli. Now, among all the. things at the house, investigators also. found several [music] fake IDs in her. name, plus bank cards for her. And when.

they'd spoken to the woman from the car. who had been carrying the ID with. Blair's name on it, she tells them that. she doesn't even know Blair. [music]. She says that Eugene is the one who made. the fake ID for her using her own. picture and Blair's name. He told her. that she could use it if she ever got. pulled over because she had like her own. warrants out on her. But she said there. was something odd about the way that. Eugene talked about Blair. Something. that made her think that something bad. might have happened to her. Oh, and by.

the way, she also said that although. Eugene never actually hurt her, he did. [music] once tell her that he knew the. chemicals needed to dissolve human. bodies. Oh, by that point, investigators. [music]. have to be having the same fear that. this woman did, that something bad. happened to Blair Tanzelli, maybe even. in that house. >> And when they look into her missing. person case, they see a potential tie.

that had [music] been there all along. So, by the time Blair disappeared in. 2022, she [music] was estranged from a. lot of her family. She had struggled. with opioid addiction for years and she. had cycled in and out of jail on drug. charges and [music] charges related to. sex work. So it was not unusual for her. to go MIA, which is why nobody really. worried at first when she kind of just. dropped [music] off. But when months. went by without so much as a sighting of. her, a friend decided to report her.

missing. [music] And according to. reporting by the Philadelphia Inquirer, when they do, they tell police that. Blair was last known to be at the house. of some sketchy guy who apparently. scared her. And where did Sketchy Guy. live? The friend gave police the exact. [music]. address of the horse house in the Alni. neighborhood. Ding ding ding. >> Now, who was that sketchy man? The. friend who made the report didn't give. [music] a name.

So, let's start with the name on the. house, >> Eugene Horsch. Now, nobody has said that. he is the man Blair's friend was talking. about, but since it's his house and all. this started in his car, >> investigators start digging into him. So, here's what we know about Eugene. He. grew up in Bucks [music] County, and by. all accounts, at least as a kid, he. seemed pretty normal. His childhood. friend, Jeremy Perry, spoke with one of. our reporters and said that Eugene was.

actually one of the smartest kids that. he [music] knew. Jeremy lived down the. street from Eugene back in the day, like. not in the Aln neighborhood, but in an. area called Shaondant, where Eugene. mostly grew up. The two hung out. constantly growing up. And Jeremy said. that things were all good right up until. high school. That's when Eugene started. gravitating toward harder drugs, started. hanging out with a different crowd, and. the two of them [music] just kind of. drifted apart. But sometime before they. did, there is this thing that happened.

that has always stuck with Jeremy. At. some point, [music]. and it's a little unclear exactly when, Eugene's childhood home in Sha caught. fire. It got [music] completely tore. down, rebuilt from the ground up, which. like, okay, happens. But it's what was. added during the rebuild [music] that. was always strange to Jeremy. He. remembers this like steel door built. right into the basement walls. So, of. course, he like had to ask his buddy. about it. And he was told that it was.

just going to be a safe room, like a a. panic room, which was odd to him, but. >> as a kid, he didn't really want to push. Right now, after Jeremy and Eugene. drifted apart, it seems like Eugene kept. drifting farther and farther from. [music] center. According to 6 ABC's. reporting, in 2004, Eugene pleaded. guilty to aggravated assault after a DUI. crash. In 2013, a separate [music]. traffic stop led police to that house in. Alni. He's living there by that point. And inside, they discovered a marijuana.

grow operation worth almost $2 million. Then in 2025 when first responders were. responding to a fire at the Alley house. >> Wait, another one? >> Yeah, different house now, but like. another house fire, but I I don't I. don't know what it means. Anyways, while. firefighters are tending to that, they. expose yet another grow operation plus. three guns with the serial numbers. removed. [music]. So overall, he has spent about five or. so years behind bars spread across his.

entire adult life. And by 2026, he was. on probation. So Eugene is far from. squeaky clean. [music] But when his. attorney, Jerome Brown, started speaking. up, he says that this whole thing was. getting overblown. Quote, "Much to do. about nothing." Says that he would be. shocked if police found any real harm. tied to the house. But he kind of. insinuates, you know, if they did, that. still doesn't mean anything for his. client because he says he thinks that a.

lot of the chemistry stuff belonged to. somebody else entirely because, as you. know, Britt, there was another person. who also lived in that house for a long. time. Somebody with what attorney Brown. calls a very interesting past. Dark Down [music] East began with one. microphone and a simple idea. There's. always more to the story than what made. the [music] news. As a lifelong New.

Englander, I wanted to uncover the. details, unexpected turns, and human. stories behind the cases that have. stayed with our communities for years. [music]. I'm Kylie Low and this is Dark Down. East. The person with a very interesting past. [music] who Eugene's attorney is. referring to is Eugene's very own. father. [music] But he's deceased by. 2026. >> Yes. So Raymond Horsch, also known as. Ray or RC, died in 2025, like a year.

before any of this exploded. But this. dude, now this is the kind of guy that. you would expect to live in a house with. chemicals and drums and letters about. Ted Bundy. But I want you to just like. read his author bio for people. This is. what is on some of his books, including. a book that he put out in 2003 called. Erato. So his bio. like he has a hand in writing describes. him as quote [music].

an artist, filmmaker, composer, writer, porn performer, drug smuggler, sometime. political activist, [music] art forger, counterfeitter, pot grower, air show. pilot, [music] army deserter, fugitive, sociopath, ex-convict, [music]. and allout villain. The thing is, this. is not just something that he wrote for. a [music] book jacket either. We tracked. down this reporter at Philly's NPR. station, WH YY News. His name is Peter.

Crims. And back in the day, he did this. like casual interview with Raymond for a. story he was working on about vintage. erotic film screenings around Philly. Like his interview with him happened in. like 2014. And it included like he was. talking to him about a film that Raymond. had made in 1973. and [music] he found. him so interesting that basically he. decided to interview him again for a. book idea about Philly's criminal. underworld in the ' 60s and ' 70s. So.

years later, Peter played a clip of his. interview with Raymond on WHY News's. podcast and you have to hear him in his. own words cuz I think it's chilling. [sighs]. >> I mean, basically. I'm a sociopath, always have been. and. it was a nice way to express. myself. >> What makes you describe yourself as a. sociopath? >> I don't like disagree with society. I.

think civilization. is the uh biggest evolutionary mistake. ever made. >> Even this is not a performance that he. puts on. So during that interview you. just heard, Peter told us that the two. of them were having this totally normal. lunch where Raymond's like munching on. dips. Except Peter said like completely. deranged things were just coming out of. Raymond's mouth the entire time. Surprisingly though, Peter told us that. he didn't find Raymon creepy or.

threatening at all. He said he never. felt like he was in danger. This guy was. just calmly telling him about running a. meth empire he compared to Breaking Bad, fleeing to New Zealand under some. scientist name, crashing a Reno air show. uninvited in a jet that he said he. bought from the author of Jonathan. Livingston Seagull. All well, by the. way, he's like just sitting there eating. hummus. [laughter]. >> Okay, but did did any of that like check. out though? So Peter actually asked a. Philadelphia Inquirer reporter that same.

question once this case broke. And the. answer was mostly yes. New Zealand, a. counterfeiting operation, the meth lab, he even owned a real jet, it all seems. to be confirmed. Now, some of the. smaller, more colorful details, nobody. really knows, but the core of it checks. out. From everything that our team. learned about this guy, he genuinely. seemed like somebody who, like his son, started out as a really bright kid,

[music] but by his 30s, he was deep into. crime. Bad checks, counterfeiting, that. meth lab. He was running out of his own. home in the 70s. [music]. And when it looked like he was about to. get caught, he fled the country. entirely. New Zealand, living under fake. [music] names for years now. This is. right around the same period when his. son Eugene was born while Raymond was. like still on the run. So Raymond. eventually ended up back in the US and. got caught. And according to the.

Philadelphia Inquirer in 1985 as part of. his sentencing, his defense team had him. go through a psych [music] evaluation. And I found their conclusions very. interesting. The psychologist report. painted a picture of a man obsessed. [music] with control, constantly working. an angle on people around him. It said. that he was quote consumed by anger. [music] and the evaluation points toward. bipolar disorder and a paranoid. personality disorder. Now, he got. sentenced to 3 years in prison. And even.

though he would end up getting out. early, for those first few years, Eugene's mother had to raise him mostly. on her own. But you can piece together. that mom wasn't much more of a stable. presence than dad was because the. Philadelphia Inquirer says that she died. of an overdose in 1989 with 7-year-old. Eugene in [music] the room. After that, it was just Raymond raising Eugene alone. in Bucks County in his childhood home in. Shaon, the one I told you about. And you.

can like trace [music] this shifting in. his path, like who he could have become. to who he became. >> I mean, that was one of my biggest. questions with this case, too. Like the. the father's son thing, >> the nature versus nurture, right? >> Yeah. And like what was Eugene exposed. to growing up that made him go from this. like smart, pretty normal kid that. Jeremy remembers to getting like so far. off path? >> Well, speaking of Jeremy, this is. actually where Eugene's former friend, his story comes back in. So, he. [clears throat] told us about this time.

[music]. when they were around junior highish age. and they'd been playing video games on. the computer [music] and Jeremy. remembers something else like popping up. on the screen. It was explicit content, but Jeremy described it as like way out. of what he assumes most people would. think of when they think of porn. It was. actually gore and blood, like torture. [music]. situations. >> And what does Eugene do during this? >> Nothing. That was the part that stuck. with Jeremy all these years. He said. that Eugene barely reacted. He just went.

like, "Oh yeah, that's just like my. dad's stuff." And then they go right. back [music] to gaming. So that is the. environment that Eugene is actually. growing up in. Because at the same time. that Raymond is raising a kid, [music]. he was building an entire career as a. quote unquote filmmaker and. photographer. And for decades, his whole. body of work centered on [music] women, addiction, and violence. According to.

what we learned from the Philadelphia. Inquirer, his whole MMO was built around. one neighborhood in Philly, Kensington, which is one of the biggest open air. drug markets in the country. Raymond's. play was to approach women who were. struggling, who were vulnerable, and he. would offer them somewhere to stay, something to numb the pain. And in. exchange, he wanted them to get in front. of his camera to act out basically like. staged [music] death scenes, hangings, strangulations, drownings. Now, we spoke.

with several longtime neighbors from his. [music] house back in Shaont, and they. all described the same pattern where. like women would just be coming and. going. >> So, were these legit movies is like such. a strong word. Were they like [music]. being distributed or were they like just. for him? >> It kind of seems like both. So way back. in the 70s, he made at least one real. movie that got a real release. They like. ran ads for it in the paper. But over. the years, most of his stuff was. self-made and he had like photo books.

that he published himself, a. documentary, stuff that he posted on his. own website. And in 2014, he even got a. gallery show in Kensington. But it all. seemed like super low budget and it. doesn't seem like it was making him much. money. Neighbors told the Inquirer that. his only income appeared [music] to be. selling drugs. Now, in 2009, Raymond got. in trouble with the law again for a grow. operation in the Shaont house. So, he. got a little over 50 months [music] that.

time when he was sentenced. He got out. in 2013 and he had lost the Sha home. So, he went to go live with his son. Eugene [music] at the house in Alni and. he keeps making his stuff [music] there. The Philadelphia Inquirer describes the. house as basically becoming a porn. [music] studio and years later he was. still posting photos of women acting out. their own deaths on his website. So to bring it back to Blair Tanzelli,

there are a couple of things you need to. know. We know that she spent years. struggling with opioid addiction on the. streets of Kensington. >> where Raymond found women, >> right? And we know that she was last. known to be at the horse house. And even. though the friend who reported her. missing didn't name the sketchy guy that. Blair was scared of that lived there, according to reporting by the Inquirer, another friend did know the name of the. man she was visiting. And it wasn't. Eugene. He said [music] it was Raymond.

And guess what? Blair wasn't the only. missing woman whose last known location. was at that house. Between working with our reporters, post-production team, recording, and you. know, running a company and being a wife. and mother, I get approximately 30. minutes for me time every day. [music]. Which means if I want to get a workout. in, it needs to fit in whenever and. wherever I find time. And sometimes, [music] honestly, that's right here in.

my office. I don't have a full gym or a. team to help me stay in shape, but what. I do have is a little bit of space to. move, a couple of weights, and the. ladder app. With the ladder app, it's. like having a personal trainer right in. my headphones pushing me not just. through every set, but week after week. as my training plan builds off the work. I've done through structured training. blocks. And it's not just the elite. level coaching that you get. The Ladder. app offers community and built-in. [music] nutrition tracking, and you get. all of that for less than $1 per day.

[music] Remove the guesswork with Ladder. and get a real coach in your ear telling. you exactly what to do for every. workout. No thinking, [music]. everything planned for you. If you have. an iPhone, head to. ladder.fit/crimejunkie. and take a quiz to find your perfect. ladder plan. Use my link and [music] get. a free 7-day trial with no credit card. and $10 off your first month if you. join. About as quickly as reporters and the.

public were learning about Blair. Tonselli, [music] they were piecing. together that another woman connected to. Raymond Horsch had gone missing with her. last known location [music]. being the only house. Her name's Amy. McCale. And according to what we learn. about her from the Philadelphia. Inquirer, she and Raymond met while she. had been struggling with substance. [music] use. Now, he's about 30 years. older than her and basically gets her. off the streets. Her mother later said. that Amy saw him as her [music] savior.

So, they get married in 2004 right in. the backyard of Raymond's Shaunt House. But Raymond is no one's savior. The. marriage didn't last. [music] They. divorced a few years after that, but. apparently she still hung around even. after Raymond got out of prison and. moved to the new house in only which. brings [music] us to June 13th, 2016. Amy went to the horse house that day. She called her mom from there that night. sounding really drunk. So her mom told.

her to just stay put instead of taking. the subway home. Then the next day, June. 14th, Amy left a voicemail for her. daughter. According to reporting by the. Inquirer, she said that she was at. [music] Ray's and that she was okay and. then that's it. She is never heard from. [music]. again. Like what I don't understand. about any of this is how police weren't. picking up on this pattern [music]. like years ago. >> Well, I think they were at least. suspicious, but Raymond [music].

never pretended that he didn't know. these women. He always had some kind of. like harmless sounding like explanation. And so like with Blair, he claimed that. she worked as his home health aid. [music] And then with Amy, he just tells. everyone, police, Amy's family, the same. story that she was drinking vodka, he. went to bed, and then when he woke up in. the morning, she [music] was just gone. And apparently they like didn't have. enough for a warrant though. Like I. would love to understand the nuts and. bolts of that. Like someone goes. missing. She literally leaves a recorded.

message saying, "I am here. This is. where I am.". >> And like the person confirms that she. had been there and then can't get a. warrant for here. Like that's wild to. me. >> I mean, was her family convinced that he. did something to her like back then or. >> they never came out and publicly accused. him as far as I can tell, but they knew. that she wouldn't just leave. Like her. daughter told the Inquirer that her mom. was, you know, she would sometimes be. gone for a couple of days, but never. longer. She never missed big things like. her grandkids milestones, for example.

And Amy's mom put up signs all over. Kensington looking for her. And there's. actually this one detail that stuck with. Amy's mom for years. So I guess normally. whenever Amy would disappear for a. little stretch or whatever, Raymond. would call her like checking in. [music]. But after this time, there was nothing. He just stopped reaching out completely. >> So Amy's case sits like that for a. [music] decade, unsolved, no real leads. But there's this woman we connected with. named Barbara Rotella. She is or has.

dedicated a huge amount of time to. creating this entire database of. underreported and under reppresented. [music] missing people. >> like in Philly. >> No, girl. Like much bigger. But she does. seem to focus on like the MidAtlantic. with some cases even further out though. I mean, Barbara literally decided that. what's already out there wasn't good. enough. So, she's like like, "Okay, I'm. just going to make my own thing.". >> So, we love her. >> We do. We absolutely love her. She is. one of us. All of our crime junkies.

should check out her work. Her website's. super easy to remember. It is. undergroundmmysteries.com. So, obviously, she had been looking into. all of [music] this and she told one of. our reporters about how she found a. photo of Amy on Raymond's website back. in 2024. Now, the site has since been. taken down, so this was like 2 years. before any of this broke publicly. [music]. She told us that the date in the photo. file put it right around the time that. Amy disappeared. [music] And the detail.

that stuck with her is like Amy is. sitting in a car and it looks like she. had been [music] crying. And Barbara had. sent that photo directly to Amy's. daughter who confirmed that she had. never seen that picture before in her. life. >> So Barbara told our reporter that she. shared what she had with police [music]. back in 2024. A detective did follow up. They interviewed Raymond and he just. told detectives, you know, the same. story and he said that all of his works. were works of fiction. [music] That was. his excuse and Raymond denied any.

involvement in her disappearance. So all. of the story involves Raymond, but like. Eugene is in this house too, right? Like. did they question Eugene about any of. this? >> I don't know for sure. I haven't seen. the files, but I don't I don't think so. about Amy because what I can tell you. with near certainty is that Eugene was. incarcerated at the time that Amy. disappeared. So, I don't know that he. would have any relevant information. [music]. >> Now, as far as we know, he wasn't in. custody when Blair disappeared. And to.

be clear, Eugene has not been charged in. connection with any crimes related to. the missing women. And a lot of what we. know about Blair points back to Raymond. though remember it was Eugene who. allegedly made that fake ID using her. name. And the Philadelphia Inquirer even. ends up reporting that there was at. least one photo of Blair reportedly up. on Raymond's site, too. In it, they say. she was nude with a black eye and a. bloody lip. I mean, you have to assume. that both women at least maybe [music].

crossed paths with Eugene, though, like. if they were in the house. >> This is the problem. I don't think. anything like can be fully answered yet. because things get even more complicated. the more investigators continue to. uncover things from the house in only. because to come back to the early days. of this investigation in 2026. What. police hadn't even revealed publicly. right away [music] was that part of what. they had seized from the horse house in.

Alni [music]. included digital evidence. And we're not. talking just like a couple of pictures, [music]. >> right? We are talking around 50 hard. drives with over 600,000 images, [music]. more than 70,000 videos, and over 10,000. [music] pages of writing, >> right? Like not just a computer. This is. like a database, a person's entire life. >> Now, look, by this point, investigators. already know that this case [music] is. dark. They've read the letter. They know.

about Raymond's whole career staging. violence for the camera. They have heard. from witnesses. So, you would think that. they would walk into this digital. evidence somewhat prepared for what's. coming. But actually sitting down and. going through hundreds of thousands. [music] of files trying to figure out. which ones are staged and which ones. might be legit [music] is something else. entirely. >> I truly cannot imagine having that job. just like how much it would like mess. with your hair, >> wear on you. Do you remember? We did an.

entire show on this actually like. >> Yes. >> But someone has to go through this stuff. because within these hard drives full of. files that he called fiction. >> are glimpses of the truth that tells us. at least [music]. some of this might be real. This realization does not reach the. public until August 12th, 2026. That is. when police call another press. conference. [music]. An inspector named Raymond Evers stands.

in front of the cameras and says. something that nobody's heard yet in. this investigation. [music]. He says two women are now believed to. have been killed inside that house. [music] But it is not the two names that. we already know, Blair and Amy. It is. Marbel Fres reported missing in [music]. 2018 and Gabrielle Amirando missing. since 2012. The reason they were announcing this now. is because as investigators were combing. through a mountain of files. [music].

They found images of these two young. women and at one point both women appear. alive and then in other images contained. [music] within those same files they. both look dead. >> And has it ever come out how they were. able to ID them? >> So police never said but this was. actually a question that we had while we. were reporting on this case. So we. reached out to a guy named Adam [music]. Scott Want. He is an associate professor. of public policy who specializes [music]. in digital forensics and he didn't work.

on this case. We just wanted to like. understand in general how something like. this typically works. >> And he said that the likely tool that. was used was some kind of facial. recognition software [music] which pulls. from everywhere. Driver's license. photos, social media, all of it. And he. said that matching somebody in that way. isn't difficult at all these days. So. that is his best [music] educated guess. But back to the press conference. So, along with naming these women, who by. the way, police are clear they do not. have bodies for, they say that the. material that they're having to review.

is quote graphic and [music] dark, though they won't say what it shows or. how the women may have died. But even. the medical examiner's office has. weighed in and they say that the women. are dead if the [music] images and the. videos are real and not altered in any. way. And in this AI age, that's like a. big if. I mean, even in like 2012, 2014, 2016, like 10, 15 years ago, we had. incredible Photoshop tools.

>> And you know, and and you know, uh. Raymond considered himself an artist, so. it's totally possible, >> right? [music] Outside of the pictures, are there other ties to like either of. the guys, either horse, like. >> not like Amy and Blair? No. So, they. just have the images which police. believe were taken inside that house. Like that is what ties the connection. >> Yeah. Now, even though the pictures came. from the search of the house in Alni, and we know Eugene and Raymond lived. there, and we know that Raymond was. known to be the one who captured the. stuff like this, police have stopped.

short of blaming either of the horses. Inspector Evers actually gets asked this. question pretty directly, [music]. like, were they involved in these. women's deaths? And here's exactly how. he answered it. Quote, Eugene lived. there. He lived there for a long time. [music] His dad lived there for a long. time. End quote. >> Okay. >> Exactly what I told you. >> Did the pictures have dates on them or. like any of the metadata that could help.

them find the bodies? >> So, here is where things get real. interesting. Yes. [music] Investigators. would later go on to say that they. pulled the metadata and that shows that. both images were taken in [music] 2017. But we. >> I know. So Gabrielle went missing in. 2012. >> I mean, more [music] concerning, I. think, is that Marbel went missing after. 2017, like in 2018. Is [music] is the. date fake? >> Marbel was reported missing February. 2018. So I wonder if maybe it's possible.

that she had been MIA for longer. Remember how kind of like Blair was? Or. maybe somehow that 2017 date is just. off. Because you're right, there is a. huge gap between 2012 and 2017 for. Gabrielle. Now, Marbel and Gabrielle were the first. two [music] women that police openly. said like they believed were dead. But. there was also a caveat that left all of. us feeling like there was going to be. more press conferences to come. Because.

at that point, what they said is they. had only gone through about 5% of what. is [music] actually on those hard. drives. And as expected, the more they. viewed, the more potential victims. [music] they've identified. Hi, crime junkies. Brit here. I know to. many of you guys I might just be a voice. in your headphones or a face that lives. inside your screens, but believe it or. not, when this episode ends, I continue.

to exist. I know. Wait, what? And while. I'm doing that whole existing thing, I. am so much more than just your favorite. podcasts co-host. I invest time in my. family, friends, work, interests. I love. to crochet and cook. I listen to music. and podcasts. I like to travel. All. things humans like to do. And YouTube. has found its place in pretty much all. of it. And that's why I'm so excited to.

share with you how YouTube Premium has. taken my daily life and made it. absolutely seamless. YouTube Premium's. ad-ree experience means I don't have to. pause my latest crochet project while I. wait for ads to roll or scramble to wash. the sticky mess off my hands mid. sourdough loaf to hit skip. And I love. that I can indulge in all the niche. interests living rentree in my head and. dive down deep rabbit holes like. Applejack's role in My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic or watch hours long.

video essays learning everything about. anything completely uninterrupted. Anyone else? [music]. Just me? Okay. And that convenience. doesn't stop when I'm on the road. One. of the most important steps on my travel. prep checklist is downloading YouTube. videos and shorts to keep my kids, my. husband, and myself busy on long flights. and road trips. And when I'm traveling. alone, I can load my phone up with. episodes from some of my favorite shows. like Vibe Check and Good Hang with Amy. Polar, so I don't have to worry about. what I'm going to listen to while I'm.

running to catch my next flight. And as. if the endless video content wasn't. enough, with YouTube Premium, I can. stream all the music I want on the. YouTube Music app, adree. And with mixes. and playlists tailored especially to my. tastes, I never fall into a music rut. So yeah, turns out I have a whole life. outside of Crime Junkie. Whatever I'm. into and wherever I am, YouTube Premium. is right there with me. Stream Crime. Junkie and the rest of your favorite. creators without limits on YouTube. Premium. [music].

September 16th, 2026, police hold. another press conference. Deputy. Commissioner Venor says that while going. through the digital evidence, investigators have identified three. additional women who may have been. harmed. Two are described the same way. They were found in recovered images. unconscious [music]. with visible injuries. Now, one of them,

they say it was a woman around 25 years. old, but they don't release her name out. of respect for her family's wishes. [music] And the second woman was still. unidentified is still unidentified as of. this recording. But the third Venor goes. further than anyone has so far when he. describes what it was they found. involving her. He said they came across. a [music] video, not a photo, an actual. video from not one but two cameras. One.

of the cameras, police say Raymon was. controlling himself filming as a woman. used drugs. Then he says Raymond Horsch. hands her money, handcuffs her [music]. to the bed, and then using a tool, basically like a pair of pliers, he puts. a zip tie around her neck until she. looks lifeless. [music]. Now, police don't identify this woman in. the video publicly, again, out of. respect for her family, but there is a. man [music] watching that press.

conference on a live stream who already. knows who she is. [music] Because just a. few hours earlier, detectives had been. sitting in his mom's house making the. death notification. You see, this man is. Jonathan Howerin Corin, and for the past. few years, he had been looking for his. cousin Nicole [music]. Fousaro. They'd been close growing up. He described her as one of the sweetest. girls you could imagine, but like both. her parents, she struggled with. addiction. [music] Now, the cousins lost. touch around 2011 when Jonathan was.

living overseas for work. And he. actually lost touch with a lot of. family, which is why he didn't realize. until 2020 that Nicole had gone missing. He was just searching her name on. Facebook and found a group created to. help find her. And in that same sitting, one of the first posts he reads tells. him that Nicole's mom, Diane, who had. been the one like spearheading the. search for her daughter, Diane had. already died 2 months earlier. So. Jonathan decided to pick up where Diane. left off. [music] He was back in the US. pounding pavement in Kensington where he.

found out she was known to frequent. And. the same name kept [music] popping up. for him. Rey. this guy known as a. pornographer and photographer who puts. ads out on Craigslist looking for. models. >> And this is years before any of this. broke, >> years. So, his ears perked up right away. when the first news articles were coming. out mentioning Raymond Horsch. He. started tracking the case closely. [music]. And then on September 10th, a family.

member called him. They had gotten a. notification from Philadelphia police. that Nicole [music] was dead. connected. to what they called the quote Ray Horsch. case. Now, this first notification was. to Nicole's father's side of the family, and apparently they had requested that. Nicole's name not be publicly disclosed, which is why police initially didn't. [music] say it at the press conference. So, fast forward 6 days later, detectives showed up at Jonathan's mom's. place to give her a notification, too.

And Jonathan was there when they. arrived. [music] So, they tell his mom. that Nicole was killed, strangled, and. they say there was a videotape. And. [music] Jonathan tried to ask them more. questions about what was on the tape, but he said that they got super short. with him. They wouldn't tell him since. he was not technically the next of. [music] kin. And they apparently said. something like, you know, we know all. about your advocacy for the other. victims. Because by this point, like as. he had learned about this investigation, he had been like petitioning for.

additional FBI involvement in the case. >> Okay. so sorry for caring. >> Yeah. And and listen, he told them he's. like, "I've got other leads that I want. to hand over, but at least to him, he. said they didn't seem [music] to like. want to hear any of it. They they didn't. even give him like an email or a name to. send his [music] tips to." And so then. fast forward just a few hours later, there they are telling the whole country. what's in the video, which is like what. he was asking. They said they wouldn't. say, "But you'll tell the entire. public." Like that really rubbed him the. wrong way. And he said watching that.

presser on the live stream, he told us. he just felt anger [music] and sadness, but Nicole's name, even though they're. not saying it, it doesn't stay secret. for long. So that soon gets [music]. leaked to the media. Nicole Fusaro, missing since July 2018, 27 years old. >> And did police say when she was killed. or when they believe she was killed? Well, they say that like Marbel and. Gabrielle, the metadata [music] says. 2017, but just like in those cases, that's.

weird with what we know, right? Like for. Nicole, in her case, we actually know. that she was alive and like spoke to her. mom in 2018. >> So, [music] the date has to be wrong, >> I think. So, and Jonathan said that they. did say something interesting to his. [music] mom. So when she asked like when. this happened, they allegedly told her. that the camera's date and time had to. be set manually by [music] hand. So they. don't even know if the date on the video. was accurate. >> So going back to like the question we.

have about all of them, honestly, we. might as well just like completely. scratch that date until we know more. Though Jonathan did tell us that. investigators have since told him that. his cousin's digital evidence was sent. to a specialized FBI lab and that the. videos confirmed to be real and not. [music] anything like a deep fake. So, I. don't know if they're going to be able. to like pull more data or or what. >> Yeah. And do we know if any of the. digital evidence so far has connected to. like Amy or Blair?

>> No, not as far as we know. They have not. come up. [music] What about all the. physical evidence from the search of the. only house like that we talked about. from the beginning like blood the drum. like does anything connect to any of. these women. >> as of everything we currently know today. also no that significant amount of blood. that they found early on got tested. [music] turns out it's not blood at all. I don't know if it's like fake blood I. don't know if it's something that just. like looked like blood [music] or maybe. it's something from one of Raymond's. like quotequote projects. >> and like all the chemicals the the.

55gallon drum. >> the police haven't even offered covered. anything up related to those. [music] At. the same September 16th briefing, a. reporter directly asked for an update on. the chemical testing. And the answer is. basically like nothing to report yet. Still ongoing. [music]. So really, they have the digital stuff, but no physical [music] evidence, no. bodies, no remains like you're saying. connecting to these women. >> So I mean my question is like are all. the women [music]. actually dead?

>> Exactly. There are seven women that we. have [music] talked about, five that. police have said are on pictures or. footage in some awful way. So, a. reporter actually asked point blank like. you have five women who are on video or. like you got pictures of them that they. appear to be dead. Is that right? And. the answer that's given is quote, [music] "Well, we know they're. unconscious. We know they're not there. people [music] looked at them, but as. long as everything we see is accurate. and we can't say that yet." [music] End.

quote. So, like the same hedge is like. applied to all of them at once, >> even though they're out there making. like death notifications to family. members. >> Yeah, I guess so. >> So, what about the urns? >> Oh, they've they've been digging into. those as well, metaphorically speaking, and [music] investigators believe that. three of the five are accounted for as. of now. So they think one is Raymond, one's another relative, and one is a. friend. But that does leave two that I.

think we're still unsure of. >> I mean, can you even DNA test ashes? >> From everything I know, not reliably. Like, it's my understanding that. cremation burns at temperatures so high. that it destroys most of the DNA that. like testing depends on. I mean, sometimes labs can pull something from. like a surviving bone fragment, but it's. really difficult. So even if one of. those two unlabeled [music] earns like. belong to one of these women, they might. never be able to prove it. Especially if. there aren't any like usable bone. fragments left.

>> No. And there is a chance this could be. the Achilles heel of this whole case. because as it turns out [music] those. Philadelphia Inquirer reporters that I. told you about, Ryan W. Briggs, Max. Marin, Barbara Laker, and Ellie Rushing. Well, they figured out that at one time. Raymond had real documented access. [music] to an actual crematorium. So, back in 2014, Raymond did this art. show in Kensington. And the finale was. this video that he claimed shows a real.

woman who died of an overdose. And the. footage shows her body being loaded into. an incinerator and cremated. and he. wrote in his own promotional material, quote, "The medical examiner totally. botched the autopsy and didn't even. bother to sew her up properly. My. horrible photograph [music] is all that. is left of her, the only trace of her. short, sad existence." [music]. And it gets just more disturbing because.

according to a law enforcement source. [music] and people who knew him. personally, this wasn't just Raymond. being shocking for the sake of it. He. genuinely had access to a real. crematorium [music] connected to the. Garzone funeral home which got shut down. over an actual illegal body parts. trafficking scandal years earlier. Completely separate from this case. The. Garzone brothers and a business partner. were apparently caught selling close to. like 250 bodies worth of tissue and. bones on the black market. sometimes.

leaving bodies unrefrigerated in an. alley behind the funeral home for days. before parts were harvested. And all. three ended up [music] getting. convicted. The brothers, Lewis and. Gerald Garzone, they plead guilty in. 2008 to running a corrupt organization, conspiracy, [music]. theft, and abuse of corpse. And they. were each sentenced to 8 to 20 years in. prison. Now, their partner in the. crematorium, James McAffrey Jr., also. plead guilty to running a corrupt.

organization, conspiracy, [music] and. theft. And he was sentenced to 3 and a. half to 10 years. That whole thing, honestly, is like a horrifying case all. on its own. >> Yeah. And how did Raymond have access to. this place? Well, so according to people. who knew Raymond, who then talked to the. Inquirer, he got into that building by. paying somebody off, allegedly giving a. guy named George Nuome drugs and cash. just so that he could get close [music]. enough to film actual human remains. And. I say allegedly because George died in.

2014, so like [music] no one's been able. to confirm it. And the Garzone. crematorium itself actually closed back. in 2007. From what the Inquirer. reported, Raymon's access there goes. back to the early 2000s though when it. was still operating. [music]. And that 2014 art show, Raymond said. that it was shot somewhere else entirely. at a Kensington warehouse where the city. morg sent unidentified remains. [music]. Now, when our reporter spoke to. journalist Max Marin about this, he made. it clear this isn't like a here's where.

the bodies went kind of situation. It's. more like this is just proof that. Raymond had a real established pattern. of seeking out actual human remains for. what he referred to as art way before. any of this became a criminal. investigation. [music] And police are. now actively looking into his connection. to that crematorium as part of their. broader investigation. But Max made sure. to emphasize the timeline surrounding. [music] Raymond's access to the.

crematorium doesn't directly line up. with any of the women that we know. about. At least [music] not the ones we. know about so far. >> Right? So what are we missing here? Like. where are the remains? Where are the. missing women? >> That is the milliondoll question. It. [music] is something that haunts me and. I don't know, dude. I just cannot stop. thinking about the old horse house, the. one in Shaon in Bucks [music] County, because think about it, Raymond lived.

there for a long time before Ali. >> And what we heard from neighbors there. only adds to my uneasiness about [music]. the whole thing. Like none of it's. actually proof of anything. But one. neighbor we spoke to described seeing a. hired groundskeeper. >> and they were like constantly moving. dirt and stone with a wheelbarrow like. into the backyard. And their point was. like that yard never showed any signs of. landscaping. It was always a hot mess.

No garden, nothing to show for all that. work. Yeah. >> And something nearly every neighbor we. spoke to brought up was that they all. described seeing barrels around the. property. And remember Jeremy Eugene's. friend from growing up in the. neighborhood we spoke to. >> He guessed that there were at least. [music]. 15 total barrels at one point. And he. believed at least some of them were full. of something because he and Eugene would. climb on them as kids and they didn't. like tip over. And when he even asked. about it at one point, he remembers.

hearing that it was like dark room. chemicals for his like photography or. something. But like looking back in. hindsight, he's like, "Why would you. need that much of like a dark room. chemical?". >> I mean, that could at least explain. maybe some of the stuff they found at. the house in AliE too. I mean, even. during like the most recent raid. >> Yeah, but emphasis on some. >> Right. While our reporter was talking to. Max Marin, he brought up the fact that. both Raymond and Eugene were also into. like horiculture and [music] growing. stuff, chemistry, like those were their.

hobbies. So again, could there be an. innocent explanation for all the. chemicals and stuff? I don't know. Has. anyone actually gone back and searched. that first property? >> So this is the big thing for me. As of. this recording, which is happening. Tuesday, September 29th, 2026, Philadelphia police have confirmed that. they have not searched the Sha property. as part of this current investigation, which is why like we like me and the. reporters have been obsessing over this.

because this house is [music] like. everything to me. >> It feels like where it started. >> Yeah. And here is something that makes. this feel even more urgent. Something. [music]. that I think is honestly huge and hasn't. gotten nearly enough attention. Remember. that 2009 bus, the one that sent Raymond. to prison. >> A retired New Britain Township police. chief actually went on the record with. six ABC [music]. News about that search recently. And.

what he confirmed is wild. In his own words, quote, "As a part of. the investigation, firearms were found. There were also IDs [music] of various. females. There were a few of them. The. DA's office took them [music] and were. going to follow up. I really don't know. what happened after that." End quote. Ashley, who are these women? Nobody has. ever said whose IDs those were. Nobody.

has confirmed if they were ever actually. investigated or if they even still have. them stored somewhere at this point or a. list of them. Like, were they simply. left behind by guests? [music] Or is it. something more sinister? Like, it's been. 17 years and that thread has never been. publicly closed, which is unreal to me. since this whole thing started with the. ID that had a missing woman's. information on it. Again though, technically when it comes to the.

timeline at least with the names of. these women we know so far and the dates. we have so [music] far, none of the. victims we know like match up or could. be linked to the Shaont house. Like the. timeline doesn't [music] work. Raymond. lost that house sometime after his 2009. arrest. And every one of the seven women. we've talked about today have known. disappearance dates from like 2012. [music]. onward. So after that, >> right? But is that because there was. nothing before that or because nobody's.

ever said what happened with the. evidence that they do have like I don't. know the IDs. >> that Yes. [music] So our reporting team. was going hard at this house. Remember. that steel door that Jeremy saw during. the rebuild? The one that he was told. was like going to be like a safe room or. something? >> Well, it sounds like Jeremy's memory. checks [music] out. One of the neighbors. we spoke to told us that the family who. lives there now found what they referred. to as a large safe built [music] right. into the basement foundation. So big.

that they can't take it out without like. tearing up the foundation. Now they. opened it when they bought the house or. whatever. It was empty. Nothing left. behind in it or anything like that. But. this neighbor said it's not the kind of. safe that you necessarily keep things. in. like it's big. Big enough that they. say people could fit inside. And that's. not the only thing that was hidden in. that house. Other neighbors, a couple. who live across the street, told us that.

they heard this story about how years. later after this house was sold to new. owners, those residents were doing. renovations and they found something. hidden inside the garage walls. Homemade DVDs. They just assumed that they were like. old family movies, so they just tossed. them in the dumpster, which like I don't. know if that's like the normal person. move. >> You would never do that. >> There is not a world in which I would. not have popped in every single one of.

those DVDs and watched them start to. finish looking for some like mystery to. solve proactively. But that's like the. crime junkie in me. And also like. homemade tapes or videos were in like. the live show that we did like we're. like very in tune to them. >> and I come back to like. >> what could have been on it? What other. >> could have been on them? >> Yeah. Like [music] do we even want to. know? Especially knowing the kind of. stuff that would pop up in front of his. own kid and his like his kid's friend. >> Mhm. >> I can't imagine the kind of stuff that.

Raymond was working hard to hide in. garage walls. It would be hard to look. at. God, it would have been worth it if. they could have and maybe it could help. connect investigators to more potential. women. [music] And I have no doubt that. there are so many more women that we're. going to hear about. [music] Though, not. every woman on a video or in an image. met the same fate. [music]. Deputy Police Commissioner Venor said at. that September 16th presser that out of.

everything they'd reviewed so far at the. time, which was still only like a third. of it. They had identified close to 60. [music] different people in the footage. and images. Now, five of them are the. women that we've already talked about, the ones who appear lifeless. 10 of them. were IDed but found to have died of. overdoses since, but at other locations. entirely, not the only house. and after. whatever was captured of them on the. hard drives. 16 were found alive,

interviewed, but apparently weren't. cooperative. [music] Another 25 are. alive and at the time of this presser. were scheduled for interviews. So, I. don't know if those have happened yet. And finally, three people actually. called police themselves just to say. like, "Hey, you're going to see us in. the footage eventually, but we are not. coming in.". I mean, I feel like this is just like. the tip of the iceberg case. >> Totally. Because, by the way, that list. of close to 60 I just mentioned, as far. as we know, didn't include the two.

missing women who were last seen [music]. at the horse house, Blair and Amy. But. again, I want to remind everyone that. Eugene Horsch has not been charged in. connection with any crimes related to. the [music] images, videos, or the. missing women. As of this recording, he. faces two federal charges related to the. search of his vehicle. So, possession of. a firearm by [music] a felon and. possession of an unlawfully produced. document and authentication feature.

[music] And while his attorney, Jerome. Brown, didn't get back to us, he has. said, quote, "We believe Mr. Horsch is. innocent." [music] We reached out to law. enforcement agencies involved in this. case for comment, too, and they declined. because this is a very active and. ongoing investigation. We also tried. family members of all of the women that. we discussed in this episode, but most. of them were either unable to speak with. us at this time or didn't [music] get. back to us. Investigators have gone. through a fraction of one house's.

evidence and already found what we've. talked about today. >> More people in that [music] same footage. are still just faces in a file. So, this. is where we need crime junkies to pay. attention. [music]. If you have anything, a name, a memory, a bad feeling you never said [music] out. loud, please reach out to the. Philadelphia police or FBI's [music]. Philadelphia field office. Because right. now, neither of the two men who might.

actually have those answers are talking. Eugene himself hasn't commented. publicly, and Raymond never [music]. will. He's dead. He'll never have to. answer for any of this, whatever this. turns out to be. >> [music]. >> And that's even if we ever learn the. full truth. Per the Philadelphia. Inquirer, in one of his own books, Raymond once wrote, quote, "Would it. surprise [music] you to learn that I'm. lying?". Well, at this point, I think the scarier. [music] question might be, would it.

surprise you to learn that he wasn't? Crime Junkie is an audiochuck. production. I think Chuck would approve.