What Happened During Carmen Van Huss's Final 30 Minutes?

Hi, crime junkies. What you're about to. hear is an episode that we originally. recorded and released in the Crime. Junkie fan club back in January when. this case was still actively unfolding. But in the months since then, there have. been some major developments. So today, we wanted to bring this story to a. broader audience. You'll get to hear the. full episode that has never been. released wide. And then I'm going to. come back in towards the end and pick up. where our reporting in January left off.

to tell you how this case was ultimately. resolved. Hi crime junkies. I'm your host Ashley. Flowers. >> And I'm [music] Brit. And today's story. begins at the Turtle Creek Apartments, part of a gated community on the. northwest side of Indianapolis, Indiana. The complex is made up of two buildings, four wings and three floors per wing. That's 262 apartments in total. And on. March 23rd, 1993, around 1:00 a.m.,

[music]. something terrible is happening inside. one of them. Neighbors who are awake. hear loud screams coming from apartment. 302A. And those who weren't awake before. are now. It's so loud and the walls are. so thin that they can hear what this. woman is saying. Get off me. She repeats. this between crying and banging noises. Get off me. There is no mistaking these. cries for horseplay or teenage antics, even though they know the tenant is.

young, a 19-year-old girl named Carmen. Van Hus. But no one cares. Our reporter. Nicole Kagan spoke to one neighbor who. lived in the apartments right across the. hall from Carmen's and he said, "I just. heard a scream in the middle of the. night. [music] I turned over and went. back to bed. That's all I know. Not a. single person gets up. Not a single. person goes to her door. No one even. bothers to pick up the phone and call. 911. For 30 minutes, she screams and.

struggles before one set of hurried. footprints can be heard, leaving and. disappearing into the night, and. everyone just goes back to sleep. For. decades, people who should have helped. Carmen in life and in death have turned. their back on her. But thanks to one. tenacious man who believes in doing the. right thing, someone has finally been. charged with Carmen's murder. And the. trial that decides his fate is about to. begin.

Though none of Carmen Van Hus's. neighbors could be bothered to call. police or check on her when they heard. her screaming for 30 minutes straight, at least one person did take the time to. call the apartment management and file a. noise complaint. There was a handwritten. note from management tacked to her door. when Carmen's dad, James, arrived a day. later to check on her. He had gotten a.

voicemail from Carmen's friend, Missy, who said that Carmen had been a no- call. no-show for work that day, and she had. tried to go check in on her, but she. wasn't really familiar with where she. lived. She ended up kind of getting lost. on the way to her complex. So, she's. hoping that Carmen's dad could go by and. check on her. He likely saw the note. first, the one scolding his daughter for. being too loud and reminding her to be. more considerate of her neighbors moving. forward. But there would be no moving. forward. He knew that instantly when he.

opened the unlocked door of the studio. apartment. I mean, he had a direct line. of sight to his daughter, clearly dead, lying on the floor next to her [music]. bed covered in blood. And the whole. apartment was a mess. I mean, the living. room table was knocked over. Clothes. were scattered across the floor, and. there was blood everywhere. It was. splattered on the walls and smeared in. the kitchen. I mean, James couldn't bear. to take another step inside. So, he. belineed to the neighbor's apartment and.

banged on the door so he could use their. phone to call 911. When Marian County. Sheriff's detectives responded that. evening, Sergeant David Wils takes. charge of the investigation while lab. techs process the scene. I mean, it's. obvious to them that there was a. struggle inside Carmen's apartment, but. they suspect right away that the. interaction with her killer may have. actually started out friendly because. there's no sign at all of forced entry. And there are some fast food cups and. some bottles of beer that make it seem. like she might have been maybe even.

eating a meal with someone before things. took a turn. >> And how do they know that that stuff is. from that night? Well, I mean, they. don't I mean, not for sure. But food or. no food, they still end up thinking that. things started out friendly with her. killer because after they talk to. neighbors, many of them report having. heard Carmen come home at around 11:00. p.m. and it sounded like she was with a. man. They hear the two of them talking, laughing as they walk up the hall to her. door. >> And then like 2 hours later, she's. screaming for help.

>> Yeah. And Lord only knows what happened. in those 2 hours. But the escalation was. severe. Carmen had 60 stab wounds to her. head, face, body, and genitalia. And the. attack was apparently so violent that. the stab wounds to her head penetrated. her skull. >> And what was the murder weapon? Like a. knife? >> That is actually still unknown. Now, multiple different news outlets over the. years have published that Carmen was. likely stabbed to death with a. screwdriver or a pocketk knife. But.

investigators told our reporter that. while the wounds were consistent with. something like that, something small and. pointed, could have been a screwdriver, could have been a pocketk knife, the. actual murder weapon has never been. [music] found. And neither of those. objects turn up in Carmen's apartment or. anywhere else in the course of their. investigation. There is plenty of other. evidence, though. They collect evidence. from Carmen's body at autopsy and from. the scene. They collect a bedspread, clothing, bloodied items in the kitchen. that the asalent likely touched.

Notably, a bloody white paper bag in the. kitchen trash can. But because this is. 1993, DNA testing isn't very widespread. or readily available, and there's. nothing I can find showing that these. things go to a lab for testing back. [music] then. They do dust the apartment. for prints, and they find a number of. latent smudges, but there are no matches. to anyone in the system. And it's not. even clear if these prints belong to an. attacker, they could have just belonged. to someone that Carmen had over. We.

don't even know if they're relative. >> We have no idea when the prince got. there. >> So, with everything they have at that. point, [music] evidence of a late night. meal, noises of laughter in the hallway, and no forced entry, investigators feel. pretty certain that Carmen's attacker. was someone she must have known well, someone she trusted. So, investigators. start making a list of Carmen's. boyfriends, current and former. And it's. not a short list. Carmen's sister, Pam. Francis, who we spoke to for this. episode, said that in her eyes, these.

relationships were just Carmen's way of. seeking acceptance. She had this innate. desire to be loved by everyone, which. Pam says was likely a result of her. upbringing. You see, Carmen's family. situation was a bit complicated. When. she was three, her biological parents, Gail and James, sent her to live with. her aunt, Gertie Shot. Gail and James, like weren't together at the time. Carmen was their first child and they. just knew that they weren't going to be. able to give her the upbringing that. they wanted. So Carmen joined the shot. family as the youngest of eight.

children. And listen, by all accounts, they raised her as their own. Carmen. considered all of the shot kids her. siblings. She called Gertie and her. husband Bob mom and dad. >> And did she still see her biological. parents at all at that time? >> Yeah. So the shots actually even like. you can tell how much they loved her. They moved from Illinois to Indiana when. they took Carmen in so that she could. still be close to her dad, James. But. according to Pam, who was like the next. youngest girl in the shot family, James. lived a very different lifestyle. So the. shots are very like by the book. They're.

loving, they're rule following this. Catholic family. James' life was much. less structured. I mean, he had some. substance use problems. Carmen is her. dad. She loved him regardless. She. idolized him even. And in Pam's eyes, straddling these two completely. different environments was really. difficult for Carmen. She would try to. imitate the things that she saw her dad. doing to feel closer to him, smoking, drinking, living on the edge, which was. okay around him, but then not so much.

around the shots. And to add to all of. this, when Carmen was 14 or 15, a third. household came into the mix when she. reconnected with her biological mother. And so for a teenager bouncing back and. forth between these different lives, it's a lot to navigate. And Pam says. that this need to be loved by everyone. like Carmen carried it with her all her. life. She had a large group of friends. that were into punk rock and skate parks. and sometimes recreational drugs. So she. got into those things, too. But. according to Pam, these friends were.

obviously more aligned with like. Carmen's dad's lifestyle. And so Carmen. kept them and her various boyfriends. pretty removed from the shot family. So. there's a lot happening in Carmen's. formative years. She never finished high. school, but she did get her GED. And at. the time of her death, things were. actually starting to really fall into. place for her. I mean, after a stint of. living in her own car, she finally moved. into a studio apartment. She had a. boyfriend of about a year who she was. totally in love with. And along with.

working a stable job at Pizza Hut, she. was following her passion by taking. classes at the Heron School of Art and. Design. Pam said everything finally. seemed like it was working. But early. on, at least, Pam feels like. investigators. see the crowd of people Carmen hung out. with and they kind of just brush her. death off like, well, this is the. lifestyle she chose to live sort of. thing. And so in their minds, it's just. a matter of finding out which friend or.

ex-boyfriend is responsible, >> which is incredibly frustrating, especially like does the family feel. like they should be looking somewhere. else? Like is there another direction. the family wants them to be going in? >> It seems like they don't know what to. think. I mean, even her friends don't. really know which direction to point. investigators in. But as they start. watching the sheriff's office pull. Carmen's circle of friends in one by one. for questioning, Missy and Pam both said. that everyone was suspicious of one. another. Even the funeral was its own.

traumatizing experience because they. spent the whole time looking around like. wondering who among them was a killer. >> 911 emergency. For 40 minutes, [music] a man held six. women captive inside Elaine Bryant store. in Tinley Park, Illinois. [music] Five. were executed and the killer escaped. >> The search continues for the gunman. >> Authorities have his face, voice, and. possible DNA. But 18 years later, this.

case is [music] still unsolved. >> There was no doubt in my mind that we. were going to get this guy and I was. wrong. >> I'm Dileia Dera and this is Counterclock. season 8. Listen now wherever you get. your podcasts. To try and figure out who was with. Carmen the night she died, police needed. to retrace her last movements. What they. pieced together was that on Monday. night, March 22nd, Carmen spent the. evening visiting her grandmother in the.

hospital with her dad, James, and James'. three-year-old son. Carmen drove them. there in her boyfriend Rob's car because. hers was in the shop and she dropped. them off back at home at around 9:30. p.m. Now, before she left, James asked. Carmen to just stay the night there with. them, but she told him she needed to get. home to wash her Pizza Hut uniform for. work the next day. Now, the drive back. to her apartment would have taken about. 30 minutes. But I think she got home. quick because when they talked to her. boyfriend Rob, he tells them and call. logs confirm that he spoke to Carmen.

from where he was in Arizona at 9:49. p.m. Eastern time on March 22nd. And. interestingly, when they spoke, she told. him that she had run into an old friend. that night. >> When did that happen? And who was the. friend? >> Rob says that Carmen told him she didn't. remember this friend's name. No. As for. when though, I don't know because it's. not like she would have had time to stop. anywhere, >> right? >> If she's talking to him at 9:49 p.m.,

she had to have gone straight home. Not. even enough time to stop and get fast. food. Carmen sister Pam Francis told. Nicole that she thought the food or like. the stuff in her apartment. [clears throat] might have been from. Subway. And she was pretty sure she. remembered hearing that there was enough. food for three people, but she didn't. know who picked it up or when or how. many sandwiches it was. if there were. sandwiches at all. But knowing the. timeline that we're working with, to me, one of three things seems possible. Like, one, the stuff in her apartment.

really was old rappers or cups or. whatever. It's not from that night. >> Two, someone else brought it to her. place. Or three, she had to have gone. out again after she got home, after she. talked to Rob, maybe while her laundry. was going. Now, she didn't have her own. washer and dryer in her unit. So, she. would have needed to go to the communal. laundry room in her building to get her. uniform washed. I'm guessing this would. have been around 10:20 after her. 32minute call with Rob. Now, the big.

question is, does she do this? Does the. laundry get done? >> God help me, but this is a question I. cannot seem to get answered, but it. feels like it should have been an easy. one to answer. Was her clean uniform in. her apartment? Did anyone go check the. laundry room? From the information we. have, it seems like the laundry room. kind of just gets ignored, which is wild. considering that it is very possible. that is where she could have crossed.

paths with her killer. >> Whatever she is doing from 10:20 to 11, we [music] don't know. But by 11, that. is when she's heard walking up the. stairs in the [music] company of someone. else. Well, and another big question is, is that the same someone who was there. at 1:00, or did the guy she was with at. 11 leave and someone else just sees an. opportunity? Exactly. But if these are two different people, then why isn't 11:00 guy coming forward?

>> Oh, >> no one is admitting to being with Carmen. that night. And if you're 11:00 guy and. you didn't kill her, >> what's the Harmon coming forward? >> Come and talk to police. It seems more. likely that we're actually looking at. someone who's like one and the same. >> And her boyfriend, just to be clear, is. for sure in Arizona, >> 100%. He had flown to Arizona with his. family on March 19th to visit his aunt. And he'd actually called Carmen a number. of times from a call-in card while he. was there, including that call like just.

hours before she died. So, no way he was. in Indiana. Pretty rock solid alibi. So, with Rob pretty much cleared, it's on to. Carmen's most recent ex-boyfriend, who. we'll call Josh. According to her friend. Missy, investigators really gave Josh a. hard time. Almost as hard of a time as. they gave her. >> Wait, why are they giving Missy a hard. time, >> dude? I'm not kidding when I say they. looked at everyone in her circle, even. like women, girls. Missy was one of the.

first people that they looked out. And. it was just because they found a pack of. Missy's cigarettes in Carmen's car with. the word death written on it. And like. [music] I can't imagine being her. She's. probably like the same age as Carmen, right? She's like 19. She's in this. detective's like interrogation room or. wherever they're talking to her. >> Like set down this pack of cigarettes. that say death on it. >> She has to explain to them that her. boyfriend at the time hated the fact. that she was a smoker. And so she wrote. death on her cigarette box in an effort. to like try and get herself to quit.

She's like, "This isn't a threat of any. kind.". >> Like her own reminder of this wasn't. good for her. >> It was just this weird, terrible. coincidence that she did that and then. happened to leave it in Carmen's car. like before this happened. But anyways, so they're looking at Carmen's ex now, Josh. They had heard somehow that Josh. was upset because of Carmen's new. boyfriend. But other than him being a. recent ex, there is nothing else I can. find to really make him look suspicious. at all. They say that he's got an alibi.

The motive ends up really not being. solid. So, they quickly pivot to another. ex. We'll call him Peter. And this is. the first suspect where there actually. seems to be a real red flag because the. year before her death, Carmen had called. the police on Peter. Now, it wasn't for. anything violent. According to police. records, Peter had taken Carmen's car. and just wouldn't return it. Now, he was. stopped and arrested by the Lawrence. Police Department, and Carmen got her.

car back. But dude was busted in more. ways than one because when Carmen went. to go pick up her car, she found that. Peter had left this little gift bag. inside with a card for her. Like, how. sweet, [music] right? Well, there was. also a card in there addressed to a. different girl. And different girl got a. set of Beasty Boys concert tickets in. her card. So Carmen, like not one to be. played, I take it, takes the tickets and.

goes to the concert herself. >> Okay. [laughter]. >> But apparently that really pissed Peter. off. So much so that he was going around. telling people that he was going to. quote get revenge. >> So the theory is that Peter brutally. murdered Carmen over. >> BC boy tickets. >> People have done awful things for way. less. But yes, this is the motive. they're working with. Only thing is just. like Rob, Peter has a rockolid.

outofstate alibi. A representative from. the Social Security office in San. Francisco vouched that Peter was in her. office over 2,000 m away on the day that. Carmen was murdered. And it's the same. story with a handful of others, friends, boyfriends. One by one, they're. interviewed and they're cleared. And. shortly after that, the case goes cold. Pam's dad, Bob, and then Pam herself. continue calling investigators at least. once every year for updates, [music] but.

Pam says that it's always the same. answer. The file is sitting on my desk, but we don't have anything new. So, the. years keep passing, and Carmen's case. gets handed from one investigator to the. next as people either retire or take. other roles. Now, over time, some of the. initial persons of interest are. interviewed again, but nothing really. notable happens until 2013. That's. [music] 20 years after Carmen's murder. That is when someone not employed by the.

Indianapolis Metropolitan Police. Department's homicide or cold case unit, takes an interest in Carmen's case, Sergeant Bill Carter. [music]. [laughter]. And he is, by all accounts, the last. person anyone expects. Not because he. isn't this brilliant investigator, but. because he has exactly zero professional. cold case homicide training or any. homicide training at all for that. matter. He actually started his law. enforcement career as a state revenue. agent. >> You don't need to tell me. I mean, you. can tell them, but I already know Bill.

Carter because you're kind of. >> Have you heard me talk about him before? >> Only for how many years? You're kind of. obsessed with him. >> This is true. Uh, so anyone who listened. to our episode on Amy Widner back in. 2018, you guys will know why I love. Bill. But like just a quick refresher. So he was in the state revenue office. Then he moved to domestic violence and. then nuisance abatement, which basically. is a department that investigates. community disturbances like underage. drinking or animal cruelty. Love a guy. who protects animals. And while in that.

position, he kind of just like stumbled. into a cold case. So he's the guy in. Nuisance Abatement who knows like the. Facebook bath Ben. And one detective. needed help getting into one of those. like memorial pages of a case that he. was working on, Amy's case. >> They wanted to like monitor comments or. whatever. So, Bill helps them get in and. then, you know, you get sucked in. He. gets like super interested in the case. >> So, he starts reading the whole file, digitizing it, talking to family.

>> He basically starts his own. investigation like in his spare time. >> Yeah. And he told our reporter Nicole. that when he first started looking into. Amy's case, there was this note in her. file that literally said all that could. be done was done. Well, hold his bear. because in a matter of months, he solves. the case. Now, Brit, you know this. probably too. Does he get cheers and. accolades for solving a cool case that. no one else could? Not exactly. Not even. an invitation to come join the team.

Whatever. [music]. Not why he did it. Amy's family is. thrilled. Bill is happy to play his part. and he goes back to nuisance abatement. But then he gets approached by an IMPD. officer who went to high school with. Carmen. And this person's basically. like, "Listen, I saw the amazing work. that you did on Amy's case. There is. this other case that has always haunted. me. I would just be forever indebted to. you if you could look into it." So, of. course, Sergeant Carter dives in head.

first. He digitizes Carmen's case file. and starts going through it page by. page. And there are no big misses, per. se. He comes to the same conclusion that. they did back in 1993, that whoever. killed Carmen was likely someone that. knew her. But at this point, it's 2013. and Sergeant Carter has DNA testing on. his side. >> Wait, so no one's gone back before this. moment and done testing? >> Not necessarily. They by this point had.

entered Carmen's DNA into like state and. national databases. >> And when you say Carmen's DNA, you mean. like the DNA evidence found at Carmen's. crime scene? >> No. No, I don't. >> You mean Wait, you mean the victim's. DNA? >> Yeah. And we asked Carter about this. He. didn't know why that was done either, but her DNA had been entered into. databases. That's all that had been done. at this point. So now in 2013, as you. can imagine, there's like a ton that can. be done. So, he assists a cold case. investigator in sending off evidence. from Carmen's case to be examined. And.

the lab comes back with [music] good. news, a great news actually. Not only. were they able to develop a partial male. profile from swabs containing semen that. was collected from Carmen's body, but. they also got a full profile from the. blood staining on the white paper bag. that I mentioned at the top. >> And do these two profiles match? >> They both match. And that full profile. is suitable to be put into COTUS, which. they do, but no dice,

which and this sucks, but it actually. is, you know, partly good because it. clears persons of interest who were. already in the system. I guess there. were some, but there were plenty more. that weren't. So that's when. investigators begin the painstaking task. of tracking down everyone who could have. crossed paths with Carmen to get samples. from them for comparison, one by one. And by the year's end, through voluntary. and covertly obtaining samples, they are. able to conclusively eliminate at least.

40 men. That's including Carmen's. boyfriend, Rob, her exes, Josh and. Peter, even her neighbor across the. hall. >> So, there's a chance that this isn't. someone that she knew after all. >> Maybe everyone's wrong. There's only one. way to know. They have to widen their. search pool. Sergeant Carter makes a. plea to the media for coverage, and he. starts looking way beyond the initial. persons of interest list, interviewing. friends of friends and distant. associates. He tries to track down the.

repair shop where Carmen's car was at. the time of her murder, thinking, you. know, maybe if the people working there. had her car keys, maybe they could have. also had the key to her apartment. He. even takes the time to look into all of. the police runs that happened the night. of Karma's murder to see if anything. there sticks out. Like maybe her. attacker went on a crime spree or ended. up needing medical attention. And. Sergeant Carter actually does find a man. who police interacted with that night. [music] who had stab wounds that looked. very similar to Carmen's. But neither.

that guy nor any of these other guys. that he ends up talking to match the DNA. from Carmen's crime scene. And at this. point, is Carter still doing all of this. in his spare time? Like, does he. officially get put on the case at this. point? >> Oh, no. According to the files, he is. technically only assisting the cold case. detectives, which I mean, in my opinion, just doesn't capture the extent of the. time and effort that he's putting into. this. And Carmen's friends and family. recognize that, too. With Sergeant. Carter at the helm, it feels like for.

the first time, they might actually be. getting closer to justice. Unlike. previous detectives, he's not looking. into this case because he has to. He is. looking into it because he wants to. And. take it from someone who has seen both. play out many times, there [music] is a. big difference. >> But wanting to solve a case [music]. isn't everything. And as hard as Carter. works, as many people as he gets DNA. from and rules out, he is just not.

getting any closer to the answer. So, in. 2014, he works with investigators to get. some additional DNA testing done to see. if the lab can figure out anything more. about Carmen's attacker to help him. focus his investigation. But what no one. knows at the time is that this $1600 DNA. test, which the city organizes and pays. for, somehow ends up spurring a. departmental controversy that throws.

Carmen's case into jeopardy and lands. Sergeant Carter in a bucket of hot water. with IMPD. The controversy in Carmen's case all. started in 2015 when the results from. the DNA test come back. Carter remembers. the cold case sergeant coming by his. desk and saying, "Well, you know, we got. a problem. Our killer is a European. female.". >> The original profile was developed from. a seaman sample. How is that even.

possible? >> It's not like it turns out the city sent. the wrong sample to the lab. What they. likely tested was Carmen's own DNA. >> Uh, I'm sorry. How does that even. happen? >> Not totally clear. I don't know if this. has anything to do with the fact that. like early on they sent her profile to. COS. >> That's like where my mind immediately. went. >> I know all Sergeant Carter can assume is. that the people who sent off the DNA. somehow got mixed up. Whatever. Human.

error. People make mistakes, right? Luckily, this isn't one where we like. used up the last sample or anything. we. just like go back and do it again. >> Yeah. >> Well, when Sergeant Carter asks for. another test, he gets shut down. Officials tell him that they won't pay. for the test, that they don't usually. cover this particular kind of testing. anyway, and that the first time they. did, it was actually a mistake. And this. would typically be the point where most. investigators would give up or move on. But if it's not already clear, Bill.

Carter is not most investigators. He gets this idea to crowdsource the. funds for the DNA tests himself. He knew. that the police department had. crowdsourced donations in the past when. a police horse with skin cancer needed. surgery. So he thinks, I mean, if we can. do it for a horse, surely we could do it. for Carmen. Like the logic is sound, right? >> Yeah. >> So Sergeant Carter creates this GoFundMe. page and in just 7 hours he raises over. $1,200.

He only needs 996 for the test. So he. says that after paying for the testing. pays the bill, he'll donate the rest of. the money to Crimestoppers. But he never. gets the chance to give any money to. anyone because almost as quickly as. Sergeant Carter raised the funds. IMPD. makes him send it all back and they. remove him from Carmen's case. Why? Like what is happening right now? He's like the only one doing any.

considerable work on this. >> So, according to the Indianapolis Star, IMPD says that Sergeant Carter's removal. had nothing to do with the GoFundMe and. he was removed after a review of. departmental assignments and procedures. >> Interesting timing. >> Officials go on to say that Sergeant. Carter is not a member of the cold case. squad and quote, "We just want to make. sure that people stay in their lanes. We. have cold case investigators and we want. to let them do their job." end quote. [music].

>> Stay in their lanes. Just Just to be clear, correct me if I'm. wrong, no one was working on Carmen's. case, right? Like that lane was pretty. empty. >> You are not wrong. >> So, he's literally doing the job that no. one else wanted or had time for, you. know, just to get a murderer off the. streets who might still be out there, no. big deal. Help a family and all in his. spare time, right? Like free time. This. is dude should be getting a promotion. >> Well, there's no promotion. It actually.

goes the other way for him. He gets. slapped with a 10-day suspension. Carter. told our reporter Nicole that before. this, he had never been disciplined. before. I mean, this guy was by the. books, hardworking. I mean, he'd only. taken 4 hours of sick time in his entire. career. And now he is getting punished. for what he thought was doing the right. thing which like to be fair was the. right thing. >> And this is the bull politics of. policing that I have zero patience for.

Your toes and your fragile egos. What is. the right thing to do by Carmen? What is. the right thing to do by her family? That's what matters. Everything else. that's in the way of the right thing is. the wrong thing. I am so sick of this. world playing sides and angles. There is. right and there is a wrong. And I am. losing my mind watching everyone lose. sight of that. Especially with my tax. dollars, >> right? >> And however upset I am, [music] Carmen's.

family was infuriated tenfold. Carmen's. brother is quoted in the news saying, "The only person that's ever made any. progress is Bill Carter. And if Carter's. off the case, the case is over. So. coming out of this, Carmen's family. actually makes an online petition to get. Sergeant Carter reinstated, which. quickly gets over 500 signatures. And. IMPD doesn't say whether it's this. petition or something else. But within.

days, they totally walk back on reports. that they pulled Sergeant Carter from. the case and say that he's still working. it. >> And see, this is why public pressure and. attention matters. like holding public. service agencies accountable like it. makes things happen. >> But pay attention to the details people. We what do we say? Always go a layer. deeper. >> because that one shiny article that says. never mind nothing to see here isn't the. end all be all. Sergeant Carter is back.

on the case. But like back on is very. much in quotation marks. IMPD still. returns all of the donations that he. raised, saying that they will look into. whether or not the test is really. needed. And at this point, Sergeant. Carter wants to help, but I mean, he. also doesn't want to lose his job, you. know? I mean, he'd already interviewed. tons of people, gotten dozens of DNA. samples, and without this next test, there is not much more he can do to. actually work this case. He keeps.

collecting samples when he can and he. gets a list of everyone living in. Carmen's apartment complex when she was. killed. But this is the point where the. case kind of stalls. But this is where. we have to work [music] together, build. off each other's work. Carter might have. felt like he failed or that the system. was against him, but it was against him. in such a big way that it got my. attention. The news about him having to. give the money back and no testing being.

done is what made me pay attention to. this case before Crime Junkie was a. thing or actually it was like right at. the time we decided to make this a thing. as I was working on our first episode. I. don't know what undeserved confidence. came over me, but I just cold emailed. this man on October 17th, 2017. And. >> we were in the thick of it then, [laughter]. >> dude. I went back in my emails and I. found it. I wanted to die.

>> I'm going to have you, Of course. I'm. going to have you read it. This is like, >> okay, this is my paper. Detective. Sergeant Carter, which by the way, I. don't even know if he was a officially a. detective. He's a sergeant. >> You're just going for it. I love it. My name is Ashley and I am on the board. of directors at Crimestoppers. You were very proud of that. [music]. >> Obviously, it's like it gave it's like. only you [laughter] had. >> I'm working on a new type of media. outreach for them to draw attention to. cold and unsolved cases in Indianapolis. There are two cases high on my priority.

list. Carmen Van Hus and Linda McDaniel. I know you are not a cold case. detective, but your name has been. mentioned in media articles regarding. both women. I wanted to see if I could. buy you a coffee or beer sometime. [music] I'd love to tell you what I'm. trying to do. And if you think you can. help, great. If not, no harm in a. meeting. Would you be open to that? Girl, >> I know. [laughter]. God bless. That man met me for lunch. >> There wasn't much he could do back then.

Like the water was still hot. >> But talking to him about Carmen's case, like what needed to be done, that is. what planted the seed. It took years to. grow, but that conversation was the. inspiration behind Season of Justice, the nonprofit that I founded. How could. we be this close to progressing a case. and have funding be the only thing. that's stopping us? So, when I started. Season of Justice, I told our director. at the time like, "This is the case. We. have to get IMPD on board to let us help.

fund testing." [music]. Well, little did I know they had already. started in 2018. They sent a DNA sample. to Parabon Nano Labs to get a genetic. genealogy assessment and do like one of. those snapshot things. Tell me the. physical traits of our per. And in 2019, one of the cold case detectives shares. with Carter, who's now a lieutenant, that as a result of the testing, Parabon. is able to conclude that the DNA sample.

belongs to a black man, which helps. narrow down their suspect pool. So, Lieutenant Carter, who [music] has no. genealogical background, by the way, starts trying to build out his own. family tree for this based on the DNA. matches from Parabon's profile. And over. the next year, he spends his time. traveling all over the country to talk. to people and try and get reference. samples to continue narrowing them down. But the DNA matches that he's working.

with are like very distantly connected. to Carmen's attacker. We're talking like. fourth generation distant, he said. And. one of these trees has 2800 people on. it. But he is still desperate to figure. this case out. So by now where he's at, it's 2020. And turns out Season of. Justice can help after all. SOJ steps in. with a grant to fund 15 hours of. genealogical research and cover the fee. to upload the suspect's DNA profile to.

another online database. And that is how. after almost a decade of working on this. case, Lieutenant Carter finally gets. what he calls the magic hit. On June. 2nd, 2023, Parabon reaches out to. Carter, now a captain. >> At least someone's recognizing this. guy's work at this point. >> I know. And Parabon says that they may. have found a close relative to their. person of interest. Apparently, a great. niece, once removed from the suspect,

had uploaded her DNA to 23 and me. But. that's as far as they could go with the. grant. And again, he has no genealogical. training whatsoever. So he taps IMPD. nuisance abatement analyst Meera Patel, who is more familiar with open- source. databases, and she starts investigating. this relative and her family. And this. work brings the investigation the. closest it's ever been to a name. Mera. concludes that Carmen's attacker is.

possibly related to these two brothers. with the last name Shepherd. and. Shepherd rings a bell. Remember that. list Captain Carter got of the people. who lived in Carmen's apartment complex. at the time of her murder. Both brothers are on it. Captain Carter. and Meera actually go out to the. apartment complex to see just how close. their apartment would have been to. Carmen's. It takes them [music] like 30. seconds to get from one to the other. I. mean, the apartments are connected by a.

common area, which by the way includes. the laundry room. So, she probably did. make it there that night. >> I think that makes the most sense. because from speaking to her family and. friends, the only connection that these. two brothers had to Carmen was living in. the same complex. So on February 7th, 2024, Captain Carter meets with the IMPD. cold case unit to share what he and. Meera have found and to suggest that. they get warrants to obtain swabs and.

fingerprints from Dana Shepard. >> And why just the one brother? >> Well, according to Captain Carter, they. only started with Dana simply because he. was living closer. He was living in. Missouri, working as a university. custodian, and his brother had moved. even further south. So, they'll start. there, right? IMPD's warrant is granted. by the Boone County judge in Missouri. and on February 15th they serve it to. Dana on the University of Missouri. campus. Police tell him that they need. to eliminate him as a suspect in an.

assault case. And according to police. records, Dana is like visibly shaking as. he reads the warrant and he tells police. that he has not done anything for a long. time. And then he keeps asking if this. warrant is from Missouri. And at this. point, it sounds like they went to the. right brother first. [music] 4 months. later, they're sure of it. Dana's DNA. matches the DNA in Carmen's case. So on. August 30th, 2024, 31 years after.

Carmen's death, Dana Shepard is arrested. in Missouri on charges of murder and. rape with deadly force. When the charges. are announced at an IMPD press. conference, Carmen's younger brother, Jimmy Van Hus, gets the chance to say a. few words. >> From the bottom of my heart, and on behalf of my dad and our entire. family, I want to say thank you to Bill. and Meera. and every single person that had a hand. in this. There's a lot of people that put in a.

lot of work for a lot of years and to. every single one. We're all very, very. thankful. There's a lot of people that miss Carmen. all these years. She had a lot of. family, a lot of friends. She had cousins that loved her like. sisters. She had aunt and uncle that. loved her like a daughter. She wasn't able to experience her. college graduation or have a wedding. or any of life's events that she missed. out on.

We were coming a lot closer just as she. was taken from us. For my dad to have to. find his [snorts] daughter after what. was brutally done to her makes this day. bittersweet. I wish he was here to see. it. She was taken from me when I was a. freshman in high school. And I'm thankful that finally the man. that did it is where he needs to be. I do have hope that any similar case. with DNA can get this same treatment. with the genealogy and the.

uh everything we have available today. I. want all of them to get the same. attention and get maybe we can have some. more outcomes like this. Thank good. Dana plead not guilty at his arraignment. and as of this recording he has been. extradited to an Indianapolis jail where. he's awaiting his trial. that is set to. begin right around the corner, January. 26, 2026. [music]. And in a huge win for Carmen's family, the prosecution recently decided that.

Captain Bill Carter will be the lead. detective for the prosecution in this. case, rather than one of IMPD's cold. case unit guys, which the family is. thrilled about because they know that at. this point, nobody knows this case as. well as Captain Carter does. [music]. >> Well, and he's really the person who. cares the most, too, right? >> Yeah. I mean, their their best chance is. with him. He's going to he's going to. get on the stand and like there's going. to be no himhawing ums. Like he knows. this case. >> Yeah. Do you think there's anything more. that's going to happen at trial? Like.

any more of a connection, any more of a. there's never a reason, but like any. more of a reason? >> I don't know. I'm finding more and more. with these genealogy cases that get. solved that there are [music] no answers. or like no satisfying ones at least. But. I don't know what the trial is going to. reveal. Carmen's family and friends that. we spoke to had never even heard Dana's. name before. But after Pam learned that. he lived in the same apartment complex. as Carmen, she said that it made sense. to her. She told our reporter Nicole. that if Carmen ran into somebody in her.

building, she would definitely have been. friendly with them. So her guess is that. Carmen and Dana had probably seen each. other around maybe a few times. and she. can imagine a scenario where on the. night of the murder the two ran into. each other maybe in the laundry room and. Dana who was 20 at the time about the. same age asked to hang out. Pam said. that it wouldn't have been surprising at. all for Carmen to agree and let him come. to her apartment. >> And what about the like possible food. for three? Is there someone else in the.

mix here that we might not know about? Well, Nicole asked Captain Carter about. that and he said that there were two. Subway cups on Carmen's table and then a. bag from a pizza place, but he said it. wasn't clear to him that those items. were purchased that night or even that. they were used that night. Investigators. didn't find any actual food at the table. and no receipts or anything were found. either. So, if they were found or stuff. like that was found, nobody documented. it or collected them. So, when it comes. to the official record, the details of.

Carmen's last night are still. technically unknown. And what do we know. about Dana? Like, did he have any kind. of record or history? I mean, was this. guy truly like squeaky clean? I mean, not squeaky, but nothing like what you'd. expect knowing what happened to Carmen. [music] I mean, the sample from Carmen's. case before it was tied to him never. matched any other cases in Cotus. And. Carter did go through and check to see. if there were any unsolved cases not in. Cotus that Dana might have been. connected to, but there was nothing that. he found. What I know is that Dana was.

arrested a few times in like the '9s and. early 2000s, mostly for non-violent. offenses, though in 1996 he was arrested. for battery on a woman who he'd had a. child with four years earlier. He was. found guilty, but walked out free with. time served. After that, he moved out of. Indiana, got married, had more kids, grandchildren even, and then started. working as a custodian at the University. of Missouri. >> And what does his family say? >> Well, so he's got a big family. Dana is. the youngest of 10 children. Nicole was.

able to speak to his mom, Jesse, and. then two of his sisters, Denise and. Evette. And when they heard about Dana. being charged, they said they were. completely shocked. They had never heard. of Dana doing anything like that before. or being violent towards anyone. And. they also said they had never heard of. Carmen until Dana was arrested. >> What about the siblings who lived in the. apartment complex with him? Did they see. him that night? >> So, there were actually four shepherd. children that lived there in total. They. all had separate units, though. The. brother that Dana was closest to, didn't. want to talk to us for this episode, but.

Denise, she was one of the ones who. lived there. She told Nicole that she. doesn't remember seeing Dana or Carmen. that night or hearing anything out of. the ordinary at all. And she said to her. knowledge, Dana didn't use drugs and. said that she doesn't think that he. could be capable of something like. Carmen's attack. And I only mentioned. the drug thing because um the attack at. the time, it was so brutal that they've. kind of always assumed that whoever. killed her was on drugs. But. >> I mean, they also thought Carmen knew. her killer. So maybe the drug thing was.

wrong, too. Dana's mom just reiterated. everything that his sister said, and it. seems like they believe he's innocent. I. mean, have any of them asked him about. it? Like, straight up? >> They have been talking to him in jail. over the phone, but they said that they. don't talk about the case. And we tried. reaching out to Dana's attorney for. comment, whether they, you know, would. let us talk to him or the attorney would. say something, but as of this recording, we haven't heard back from him or his. attorney. After almost 33 years, Carmen's family is the closest that they.

have ever been to getting closure. But Pam said that strangely with all. that's happening in the media and in the. courts, she has felt farther from her. sister lately. Almost like her memory. has become her murder. So recently she's. been trying to reconnect with Carmen the. person rather than Carmen the case. And. she does this by reading her diary. entries and looking back on photos that. they have together. And to make sure. that no other families have to endure. the pain of waiting for answers that.

feel like they're never going to come, Pam is actually working to get a bill. passed in Carmen's honor that will. create a formal process in Indiana for. families, not just law enforcement, to. request advanced DNA testing in their. loved ones cold cases. So, what you just heard was right around. where we ended our original episode. And. now I'm hopping in with two major. updates. First and foremost, if you. follow us on social media, you know that. we were all set to cover this trial in.

person when less than a week before the. jury selection was slated to begin in a. move that no one saw coming, Dana. Shepard decided to take a plea deal. On. January 23rd of this year, 2026, our. reporter Nicole was in the courtroom. when Dana plead guilty to one count of. murder and was sentenced to 45 years at. the Indiana Department of Corrections. While handing down the sentence, the. presiding judge actually said this case,

Carmen's case, was the worst he's seen. Now, what this plea deal means is that. Dana accepted responsibility for. Carmen's murder in the eyes of the law. But per the agreement reached with the. state, the second murder charge and the. charge of rape with a deadly weapon were. both dropped. The plea also means that. Dana doesn't have to ever get on the. stand or make his case for what exactly. happened on March 23rd, 1993.

Which still leaves us and more. importantly Carmen's family with a lot. of unanswered questions. They told us. it's sort of bittersweet. In a. statement, Carmen's sister Pam said, quote, "While this plea deal was not our. first choice, we are grateful that after. 33 years, the man responsible for. Carmen's brutal rape and murder is. finally being held accountable. For. decades, the perpetrator was able to. live a normal life after taking that. right away from Carmen and from our. family. Nothing can undo that loss or.

erase the injustice of him living freely. for so long. But we are thankful that. the truth has finally come to light and. that he has not escaped [music] justice. That justice is what has been fueling. Pam. Justice for Carmen and justice for. other families who are in the same. position she was. Which brings me to. update number two. That bill that Pam. was working on to expand access to. advanced DNA testing for cold cases, [music] Carmen's Law, it was passed.

unanimously by the Indiana State Senate. And in March, it was signed into law by. the governor. That means that there will. now be an established framework for. private funding of advanced DNA testing. in all cases that have gone unsolved for. five or more years. And it's due to the. tireless efforts of Carmen's sister, Pam, who championed this bill, not only. on behalf of her sister, but also for. all of the other families out there who. will no longer have to feel powerless. like her and her family did for so long.

We are going to link to more information. about this bill and all of the source. material for this episode on our. website.