What Did Investigators Miss in Alyssa Romine-Olson’s Case?

Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley. Flowers. And I'm Brett. And welcome. back. Last episode, I told you about the. mysterious death of 30-year-old Alyssa. Romanine Olsen. Her case has all the. hallmarks that to a crime junkie scream. foul play. She was found outdoors in a. Gilbert, Arizona nature preserve. She. was naked, face [music] down in shallow. water. Everything she came to the park. with, her clothing, journal, cell phone, keys, it was all missing. [music] And. what police did find in the park were.

some footprints, shoe prints, [music]. and a latex glove. But for some reason, this got spun to and through the media. [music] like a possible suicide. Now, they couldn't outright say that that it. was a suicide because the ME ruled. manner and cause of death as. undetermined. But the insinuation. [music] was there, backed by some softly. worded statements from the police who. told the press [music] that there was no. threat to the public. All of this was.

shocking to Alyssa's family because up. to that point, they were very much under. the impression that police were. considering this foul play. They had. even been asking them for a list of. people that they thought police should. look into. But that's not the direction. the investigation took. Alyssa's sister. Michelle told us it felt like. investigators took one look at the. lifestyle Alyssa and her husband Braden. Olsen lived, heard about their beliefs, and instantly wrote them off as. religious lunatics. And to be fair,

Braden did himself no favors each of the. three times he talked to police. But. from that point on, Michelle believed. the investigation was driven by a. [music] simple assumption. Either Alyssa. did this to herself or her husband. Braden did it to her. [music] And if. they found something that didn't fit. neatly into that box, they seemed to. discount it until the case eventually. just ended up cold. And listen, if. you're hung up on Braden, hearing about.

the other very viable leads in this case. might change your mind or at the very. least present some pretty significant. reasonable doubt. So, this is the rest. of Alyssa Roman Olsen's story. I want to break up this episode by. theory. The media suggests Alyssa may.

have died by suicide because she was. depressed or had health issues, but her. family firmly disputes that. >> Also, nothing about the scene is giving. suicide. No, I don't think she hid her. clothes and her journal and keys and. phone and walked into a nature preserve. and died [music] by some means that an. ME couldn't even determine. Makes no. sense. Plus, the family says that police. from the very jump were using terms with. them at least, like foul play, crime. scene. >> But they seemed to focus heavily on.

Alyssa's husband, who it turned out had. a rock solid alibi. He [music] was out. of state. So, when that didn't pan out, it seems like the investigation. slowly tapered off, >> which is easy for that to happen when. you don't have the media banging down. your door asking like when you're going. to solve this case when it's like. [music] just a just a suicide. >> It makes the positioning in the public. look very strategic, [music] doesn't it? So, let's walk through the other.

theories that [music] I think are worth. exploring. The first is actually one. that, as far as I can tell, police never. even looked into, the last [music]. reformation theory. Now, this got our. attention because of something Alyssa's. sister, Chelsea, told police early on. It's in [music] one of their reports. She asked them if Alyssa's death could. have been caused by one of the members. of her church, specifically someone. offering to baptize [music] Alyssa in.

the water. And that one line made me. think back to something else that I read. in the file. So early on when police. collected the computer that Alyssa used, she had a number of searches on June 6, [music] so this is shortly before her. death related to a religious movement. called the last reformation [music]. or TLR. So last episode when we were. talking about Braden and his like, you. know, not really having a motive, I. mentioned that he and Alyssa were. actually planning a trip together that. would have been like a couple of weeks. after she died. They had talked about it.

on their long phone call the night. before Alyssa died. Well, that trip was. to learn more about TLR. [music] And. when police collected the tablet that. Braden had been using, they actually. found three deleted PDF files seemingly. related to TLR, which [music]. by the way not only places a strong. emphasis on baptism, but reportedly. requires new members to be rebaptized. and engage in like on the spot baptisms. And the more we venture down this rabbit.

hole, the more [music] interesting. connections we found. For context, the. last reformation is a global Christian. revival movement that was launched. [music] in Denmark in 2011 by a man. named Torbin Sundergard. [music]. It teaches that modern Christianity has. become too polished, too institutional, too dependent on buildings and pastors. and routines. So instead, followers are. encouraged to return to what they. believe is the raw supernatural faith of. the early disciples in [music] the New. Testament. And that means that things.

can get a little intense andor hit a. little too close to home for anyone who. grew up like we did and like didn't get. out or like did get out as we did. [laughter]. We're talking public healings, speaking. in tongues, deliverance sessions, what. many people would call exorcisms, and. [music] public baptisms in lakes or. kitty pools. Now, followers are taught. to cast out demons, heal the sick, and. evangelize to strangers wherever, whenever, even if that happens to be a.

parking [music] lot. Now, the movement. exploded online through YouTube videos. showing dramatic healings and emotional. conversion stories, but it also raised. some major red flags. So, the movement. has been connected to claims of curing. autism by casting out demons from. children as well [music] as freeing. people from cancer through prayer. And. in 2016, six different Danish government. agencies investigated the movement. following worrying public claims about.

Torbin's practices and activities. [music]. Now, those specific government inquiries. found no actionable wrongdoings, [music]. but that didn't stop public outcry. So, how does Alyssa factor into all of this? Well, we know that Alyssa held religious. beliefs that friends and family. described as extreme or intense. But. admittedly, the Roines didn't know much. about Alyssa's faith [music] toward the. end of her life because it sort of. became a topic of conflict. Alyssa would. encourage her family to become more.

faithful and she would get animated if. anyone tried to push back. Chelsea said. that much [music] like Braden, Alyssa. would compare those who tried to slow. her religious progression to the [music]. devil and question why they were keeping. her from learning about God. discussions. were likely to end in an argument. So, Chelsea knew very little about TLR, but. she said that her family had [music]. their suspicions about it possibly being. a cult. Now, when it comes to this. [music] theory, I think there are a few.

possibilities to tease out. The first. one is what Chelsea suggested in her. conversation with police, a sort of. baptism gone wrong. [music] Now, we did. some digging here and found a podcast. called The Cult Vault that explored the. last reformation movement. In one of. their episodes, the host interviews a. man who explored the movement himself. after one of his family members joined. [music]. And some things that he said really. stuck out to me. So, the man described a. TLR meeting that he went to where a.

member told him that they believe every. person in their faith [music] is a. disciple. So every person in their faith. can make water holy, can do baptism, can. [music] cast out demons. According to. him, one of the first things that they. have new members do is get baptized. again. [music] And interestingly, one of. the group's practices was to go to. Walmart and to try and convert people in. the parking lot. Like according to this. man, they would bring a pickup truck. with a raised bed in the back that they. would fill with water and do baptisms in.

the [music] parking lot. Now, remember, we don't have any footage of Alyssa or. her car parked in the parking lot of the. public library where it was found. because it was out of view. >> Could someone from the movement have. approached her? And before you question. like, oh, were there even like TLR. members living in Arizona? I can tell. you right now that the answer is [music]. yes. And I know that because on the. movement's website, there is this. interactive map where members can share. their locations. And there are multiple.

plot points in Arizona. Are you thinking. that there might have been like a a. planned meetup or is this something more. like happen stance? >> I can't say anything for [music] sure, but one thing noted in the police file. is that Alyssa's text message log showed. exchanges with an unidentified number. the day and days before she went missing. [music] and died. >> So, this is someone other than Braden. >> Well, I mean, the number itself is. redacted in the document. So, like I. couldn't look it up, but I know that.

it's not Brighton's because officers. note that when they tried to call this. number, there was no answer nor an. option to leave a voicemail. And we know. that Braden did receive a voicemail. message on the device that he was. borrowing from the Phillips. >> Right. >> Officers also text the number asking for. a call back, but they never got any kind. of response. [music] And speaking of the. Phillips, their daughter Samantha. expressed some concerns to police about. the [music] last reformation movement, saying that it was like very weird and. she could see them doing something like. that, like just taking somebody. Now, as.

far as I can tell though, there was. [music] no follow-up done with this. phone number that like she was in. communication with, which like by the. way, it would take all like 20 seconds. for me right now to track someone to. that number like with what I have. available to me. I'm not even the. police, but I can't cuz it's redacted. >> Right now, there is another possibility, which is that Alyssa was not the one. being baptized, [music] but maybe the. one offering baptism. Like, she could. have been encouraged by a movement, the. movement, whatever, to approach someone.

to minister to them or to baptize. [music] them. Or in Chelsea's word, she. might have quote bothered the wrong. person about God. According to the. police file, both Ed and Barbara, her. parents, said that Alyssa was very. friendly and she liked to talk to. strangers, [music] particularly to. minister to them, which her dad Ed said. was a scary habit. And actually, one of. the friends of Alyssa's that we spoke to. told us that his top theory is that. Alyssa was evangelizing to someone in. the park who then pushed her into the.

water causing her death. Now, who. [music] this person might have been, nobody could say. And that's like where. that theory just like falls off. Okay, but like is she naked when they push her. in? Like otherwise that would make no. sense. >> It it also makes no sense to me because. like we there's no water in her lungs. She didn't drown either. So like I I. agree that that theory doesn't. necessarily like or that piece of the. theory doesn't make sense to me. Now, maybe if the police had alerted the. public about the possibility of this. being a homicide back in 2016, if they. had tried harder to track down that.

unidentified number or done a. neighborhood canvas, [music] they might. have gotten some leads. But that didn't. happen. And now we can't go back in. time. So, [music] with that, on to our. next theory. The man in the green. 4ERunner. It was Chelsea and her sister. Tammy [music]. who first encountered this man on. September 30th, 2016. Chelsea told us that they were at the. Riperian dropping off flowers for Alyssa.

when a strange man just like [music]. emerged from the bushes near where they. were standing. And they're just like. they're sharing memories of Alyssa. But. it seemed like this guy was like. listening to them. And according to. Chelsea, he was [music] acting very. weird and sort of like scoping the place. out. So the two decided to just like. keep an eye on this guy, except it sort. of seemed like he was watching them. back, which like creeped them out enough. that they were like, "We just need to. get out of here.". >> Yeah.

>> But that's not where the story ends. [music] So once Chelsea and Tammy got to. their parents' house, they were outside. in the front like discussing whether. they should like tell their mom or maybe. even tell the cops about this. But. before they could do anything, something. they saw on the road made their heart. stop. [music] It was this like forest. green Toyota 4Erunner like slow rolling. down their street. [music] And when it. passed their house, the vehicle's window. rolled down. And Chelsea could see clear.

as day that the driver was the same man. from the riparian, like as though he. followed them the five miles home. >> What? And it's not like this is just. like a straight shot on like some main. street or something like this isn't a. coincidence. The fastest route involves. at least six turns to get to their. parents' place. [music] Now, Chelsea and. Tammy did bring this information to. police. Per the file, 4 days [music]. after the encounter, they went down to. the station and relayed this whole.

story. Police asked Chelsea to rate her. certainty on a scale from 1 to 10. That. both the man at the Riparian and the man. who drove by their house were the same. person. >> At the time, Chelsea said seven. But she. told us that she was 100% [music] sure. of it. >> So sure, in fact, that her first thought. at the time was actually that that guy. must have been like an undercover. detective or something who was like. monitoring the area or them or whatever. >> Did she ask police about that? Oh yeah,

and definitely not the case here. They. confirm that they had nobody following. them. So the detectives ask her to. describe this guy, right? And that's. when she describes this Asian man in his. mid30s [music] to mid-40s with thick. medium length hair that she thought. looked like quote weird, like it was. maybe even a wig. And she says that he. stood about 5'9, had a muscular build, but not like [music] athletic, and he. wore thin small glasses, a white plain.

t-shirt, and khaki [music] pants. And so. police take this down, but they don't. really do anything with it. It just kind. of gets like filed away. But they didn't. see [music]. what I saw. So when I read that. description, I genuinely thought I was. having deja vu. Like I swore I had seen. those exact words in the file before. And sure enough, I had. Hi, crime junkies. Brit here. I know to.

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me. Stream Crime Junkie and the rest of. your favorite creators without limits on. YouTube Premium. [music]. There was an interview in the case file. that happened about a month after. Alyssa's [music] death. It was with this. guy named James. And this is not like. the the people that Braden stayed with.

James. >> Totally different James. >> Yeah. No, no, no. They talked to him. because they discovered him during one. of the initial thermal imaging searches. um where they were like had the. helicopter over the preserve. Now, at. least one other officer recognized this. guy because James was unhoused and was a. regular there. So much so that the park. rangers refer to him as the eyes and. ears of the parks. [music] So when they. realize who he was, like they see him. sleeping in the park, they just like. escorted him out of the park. >> and then they waited a month to. interview him.

>> I know. I get the sense that police were. like so familiar with him and his. behavior that like [music]. >> he wasn't a concern. Okay, but he's got. eyes and ears. >> I know, but he like appears in the file. more as a trusted eyewitness than a. person of interest. Same thing though, but like if if you're the eyes and the. ears, I would love to talk to you day. one. They talk to him a month later. >> Now, at one point, they did straight up. ask him like, "Did you have anything to. do with her death?" To which James. [music] says, "No, absolutely not." And. like that seems to be sufficient for. them. But he does bring up something.

interesting [music] in this interview, or rather someone. So, James said that. he learned someone had died in the park. about a week after Alyssa's [music] body. was found. And that's when he was. talking to his friend Sammy and he was. asking Sammy if he knew anything like. why are all the helicopters and stuff. like what's all that about like last. week and [music] Sammy told him that a. girl had drowned in the lake. Now. according to James Sammy was a transient. who spent most of his time between the.

riparian and like this other local park. that he would bike to. [music] And he. sometimes hung out at the library and. the main lake in the riparian where he. liked to fish. Now, when the officer. asked James [music] if he knew how Sammy. had heard about the death, James said. no. Here comes the deja vu moment. According to James, Sammy is of Thai. descent, stands shorter than 6 ft. [music] tall, has medium length dark. hair, and speaks with an accent. Okay, so this is like matching that.

description. But reading the file, I. genuinely wonder if we are the only ones. who have put this together because. Chelsea told us that when she went to. police with her tip in October, detectives were like, "Okay, you know, thanks. We're going to make note of. this. >> Just write it down.". >> That was it. They [snorts] didn't seem. concerned. They didn't seem suspicious. [music] of it. And I cannot find a. single page of investigative followup. into anyone matching Sammy's name or. description. No composite sketch, no.

search, no flyers, no nothing, which I. cannot [music] explain. As far as I can. tell, to this day, Sammy has never been. interviewed. So, if anyone out there is. familiar with someone named Sammy, S A M. Y, someone who matches the description. that I just gave, who lived around. Gilbert, Arizona, [music] email us. tips@auudiochuck.com. I want to keep looking into this. Now, while the first two theories could.

involve people, we don't have names for, this next one, I have a lot of info for, so buckle up. [music] So, a full year. after Alyssa's body was found, her. sister Chelsea ends [music] up getting a. private Facebook message from a woman. who wants to tell her [music]. about some suspicious activity that she. observed at the Riperian. The woman says. that there was this man hanging around. the park who was like eyeballing her.

daughter in a way that made her look. very uncomfortable. And not one to brush. that kind of unwanted attention off, the. woman decided to follow the man when he. left the park. She followed as he walked. down the road for over a mile to a. Circle K and then shoved his backpack. into one of the nearby black power. boxes. [music]. When he did that, something caught this. woman's eye. She thought that she saw. pieces of clothing [music] in there. And. for some reason, that's when it all just.

like connected for her. She knew about. the discovery of Alyssa's body the year. before. And here was a suspicious man. lurking in the same area, storing. clothes and potentially more items in a. power box. So, she was reaching out to. Chelsea to sort of say like, "Hey, I saw. this. I don't know if this means. anything, but maybe you should bring it. to the attention of police," [music]. which Chelsea does. On June 14th, 2017, she goes to the police station with her. dad to explain the whole situation. And.

that's when detectives tell her that. they'd actually already heard of this. guy, spoke to him even twice by that. point. [music] Once the day after. Alyssa's body was found, and then. another time just months before they. were getting this report from Chelsea. The guy's name was Luis Bueno. [music]. And sure enough, there he is right there. in the case file early [music] days. From the reports we have, it looks like. right after Alyssa's death, he.

approached police [music] in the CVS. parking lot, the it's like across the. street from the riparian. And he told. them that he was homeless and he hung. out by the preserve from time to [music]. time. But it's what he said next that. caught their attention. He said that two. days before, so [music]. that would have been June 9th, >> the day that Alyssa was reported missing. >> and presumably the day that she died, but we don't know for sure. [music]. >> He says that he was in the parking lot. of the LDS church that's across the. street from the preserve [music] and he.

heard a gunshot. Now, Luis couldn't tell. where the shot came from or remember. exactly what time he heard it, but he. said that it was quote right before all. the cop cars arrived, which I'm assuming. were the officers responding to Ed's. missing person report for his daughter, Alyssa. >> So, that's like pretty late at night. >> Well, I mean, that's the only time that. I know of where the cop cars showed up. to the preserve that day. But reminder, Alyssa didn't have any gunshot wounds.

And Michelle said that when they were. out there looking like that night, they. definitely didn't hear any shots. [music] So, what is this? I don't know. Now, Luis said that he didn't know. anyone who regularly visited the park, but he did have something else to share. He says, "You know, one or two days. before I heard the gunshot, I saw this. black guy walking around the park, which. he thought apparently was unusual. because he had quote never seen a black. male walk around the park before." end.

[music] quote. Which just an FYI, Michelle said this is not consistent. with like her experience of the park. Regardless, they don't do [music] much. with this at the time. Like no one else. seemed to have heard a gunshot. The. story just kind of felt like nonsense. probably. But Louise pops up again in the files. about 2 weeks after that conversation. And by this point, it's June 25th. >> Okay. So, the investigator writes that.

she would like to interview him again. about Alyssa's death, but that doesn't. actually happen for another 9 months, which if you ask me, might have. something to do with the fact that. investigators were charging like full. steam ahead with their investigation. into Braden. Then, >> finally, in March of 2017, detectives. picked back up with Luis. This time he. was interviewed on the patio of the. library right by the riparian which. investigators wrote is an area that he.

is known to frequent. [music] And if you. remember this is also where Alyssa's. like her dad's car was parked and the. library borders the riparian. Right. >> So in this interview the detective told. Louise that he was investigating the. death that happened in that area [music]. and before he even said Alyssa's name. Louise responded, "Oh, you mean the lake. here? I'm the one that came to the. officers to report something. Now, the. first thing the detectives asked Luis. was [music]. when exactly he heard the gunshot that.

he mentioned in his first conversation. with officers. And Luis responded just. when that thing took place with that. woman that drowned in the lake. But they. said that was a suicide. >> Okay. Who's they? [music]. >> I don't know. I would assume the media. is who he's talking about. >> Okay. Do we know if Luis even had access. to like news reports? >> He probably did. He told detectives he. had this like 5-in television and like. that's how he heard about the death. >> Okay. >> Now, at this point, the detective had. already told Louise that he was not. under arrest, didn't have to speak, and.

was free to leave at any time. >> But one of the first things Louise asked. was, "You don't think I had anything to. do with it.". >> And the investigator didn't answer this. He just [music] asked Louise to describe. what he observed that was so suspicious. And here we get this same story again. about this like black guy walking the. paths within the preserve. Louise says. that he couldn't remember which path, just that it was like deep within the. preserve and that he saw him while he. was riding his bike going down the path.

And this only made less [music] sense. when Louise told the detectives that he. quote hardly goes to the preserve. So. [music] it was just a coincidence that. he happened to venture in there the one. night that a woman might have died. >> I guess so. And I think at this point. Louise might have realized the hole he. was kind of like digging for himself. because he says, "I give you my word, sir. I had [music] nothing to do with. something like that." Louise said that. he just reported the suspicious activity. because it was his duty as [music] a.

Christian. And then Louise sort of. changed his tone. According to the. police file, he accused the detective of. hassling him. [music] And this is where. the police file starts to read as a. little bit combative. The detective told. Louise that he believed he had more. information than he had shared. And he. [music] asked Louise if he had ever. spoken to Alyssa. And Louise said, quote, "You're going to take me in, huh? For something I didn't do." So the. detective asked again, "Have you ever. spoken to Alyssa?".

This time, Luis didn't even answer. [music]. And when the detective continued on to. say that Alyssa was a very talkative. person, Louise said, "Oh my gosh, you're. gonna turn me in because I'm a sex. [music] offender.". >> I'm sorry. [laughter]. Come on. Like, what? >> This is true. And it's not news to the. detective talking to him. He did his. homework. Told Luis as much when Luis. started telling him about how he spent. 17 years in prison for attempting to.

assault two women at the same time. But. Luis insisted that he wasn't actually. guilty of that. >> Except again, the detective already read. the police report. He knew Luis was. downplaying the situation. >> And he brought up another case where. Louise was arrested for attempted sexual. assault. And so Louise conceded that. while he was claiming he was innocent of. the first attempted assault, he was. responsible for the second. And then I.

guess feeling the need to explain. himself, Louise launched into [music]. this personal history about how his mom. like put him on something when he was. like [music] 16 or 17 and he had what he. calls an explosion like or an explosion. went off in his head like fireworks. And. he said when that happened, he. immediately turned to crying. >> What did his mom put him on? >> All of the files are redacted. I don't. know. But like based on the way Louise. talks like later, he kind of insinuates. that it was like an anti-depressant. [music] And he says that there are.

countless stories of anti-depressants. causing people to quote go off. >> Was this his [music] way of sort of like. admitting. some sort of responsibility? >> No, I don't think so because Louise. suggested that that was the old him, but. he has control now and is quote normal. [music] again. Now, this first official. interview with Louise ended with him. asking if the detective [music] wanted. him to take a polygraph test. >> Uh, yeah. Yeah. Please.

>> And the detective tries to set it up. immediately. He called the polygrapher, made the arrangements, and drove Louise. to the police department where, quote, he was provided with the opportunity to. take the polygraph [music]. test. >> Love that phrasing. >> Yeah. But I don't think he did. Oh, I. don't know why exactly or what happened. because it's redacted [music] in the. file, but there is no mention of any. polygraph results. Or maybe it's the. results that are redacted. Who knows? I. just know that Louise was subsequently. released. And [music] so then fast.

forward 3 months, that's when Chelsea. comes forward with her tip. And when she. does, it's not just some random like. guy. She's like, I saw this guy. And. they're connecting the dots. He has. Louise's name because the woman who told. her about this whole thing literally. like looked up the sex offender registry. list and like [music] IDed Louise. >> She's out here like doing the most but. like in the best way possible. >> Total crime junkie. Yeah. And she did. even more because not only did she share. this tip with Chelsea like, "Hey, you. might want to share this with the.

police. You might want to check this. out." She actually did go straight to. police herself with this information 3. months before in March. Is that what. spurred them to talk to him like the. second time? >> No. Because jurisdiction made it so that. this tipster's call got routed to Mesa. PD. So when Chelsea is going to them, they're like, "Okay, yeah, we know this. guy. We want to talk to him again." But. by then they can't find Luis.

>> Okay. Everything you've told me about. him, he like frequents like [music]. three places in a onem radius. >> I know. What do you mean you can't find. him? >> I don't know. I can see a note in the. file that says they sent out like over a. thousand flyers with his information. Like they're doing something to [music]. look for him. But the thing is like I. don't know where they're sending all. those flyers because it couldn't have. been or doesn't seem like it was the. library. >> where he is all the time. >> And that's where they find him in.

November of 2018. And when the detective approaches the. library manager, like when they have him. this time and they're like, "Hey, can do. you have a room or something that we can. use to like interview this guy?" The. library manager says, quote, "He comes. to the library almost daily.". So like there he was. >> So then where were they looking for him? >> It feels like maybe they weren't cuz. when they sit down with him, he says. that he'd offered to take a polygraph in. the past, but then he was never. contacted again.

>> So I mean there's that answer. The. detective says that's why he's there. now. Okay, like let's we're going to. have a second official interview. >> In it, Louise relays the same story. about this like black guy that he sees. in the preserve. But then the. investigator quickly like turns [music]. the tables. He tells Louise that there. are people that believe he [music] was. involved in Alyssa's death. And Louise. is like, "How? Nobody searched my. backpack.". Sir, no one [laughter]. >> not the answer that you like are.

expecting here. >> Nope. And he's kind of right. Gilbert PD. never searched his backpack. >> We didn't know we had to. >> Yeah. What backpack? But Mesa PD had. searched a backpack of his when that. call got routed to them in [music] 2017. And you are not going to believe what. they found inside of it. On September 7th, ID presents a new. documentary event, OJ Unseen:

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happened in 2017. Now, it doesn't seem like [music] the. dots are connected right away, but by. the time Gilbert PD is interviewing Luis. in 2018, they have at least Mesa PD's intake. report, which talks [music] about what. they found in the backyard. >> So, the detective who's talking to Luis. now begins to go through the list with. Louise one by one, asking [music] him. about each item. First up, pair of.

gloves. And Louis is like, "I'm. homeless." But the detective is like, "Yeah, no, I'm looking at latex surgical. gloves." And that's when Luis is like, "Oh, I worked at PETA Jungle." And so, like, I would take the gloves home. >> But surgical gloves, >> that's what he says. >> And correct me if I'm wrong, there were. latex gloves found at Alyssa's crime. scene. >> There sure were. Mesa also found a. woman's hair tie in his [music] bag. And.

when asked, Louise says like, "Well, I. must have just had long hair at the. time.". >> Is that true? >> There's no description of Louise in the. file, nor photos of him in 2017 when the. bag was recovered. But our reporter did. get a hold of the woman [music] who like. followed him, found the backpack in. 2017. And she said back then he did have. longer hair, like it fell just below his. chin. But she said that she never saw. him like wear [music] it pulled back. into a ponytail. So, okay, whatever. Next, the detective brings up [music].

some religious writings that Mesa found. in the back. >> Like religious writings that could be. connected to the woman we know. >> looking for a Bible every day to pray. with her Bible. >> But not according to Louise. He says. that those writings were [music] his. He's a Christian. He writes like that. all the time. In fact, he says he has so. many writings about angels and demons. that if they want even he can show them. So the detective is like, "Okay, great. Would love to see where." And then.

Louise says, "Oh, actually like I only. carry essential items with me." So like. I I can't show you [laughter]. >> essential items like surgical gloves and. hair. I say a hair tie for the long hair. you don't currently have. >> Right. [music] Now I don't know the. exact contents of these writings. I know. Mesa PD impounded everything that they. collected, that bag and everything in. it. So, we filed a foyer for the intake. form, any photos, like anything. Yeah. But Mesa PD told us that no photos were.

taken from the incident and there was. like not even body cam footage. All they. gave us was the incident report and the. catalog. >> Okay. But to me, even more than what the. religious notes say. I feel like the. handwriting itself would tell you. everything you need to know. >> I know. But like I said, no photos. And. Gilbert PD doesn't get to expand on Mesa. PD's report because Gilbert PD never got. to actually see the items either [music]. because per a note in the file, the.

items got destroyed by Mesa PD in May of. 2017. Quote, in accordance with their. policy. So like not that long after they. No, not that long after they collected. them. >> And did anyone test this stuff in. relation to Alyssa's case? Like there. was no time to. Mesa PD is the one that. responded. Like. >> they never connected the dots. >> No. All they knew was that they were. holding on to items that like a local. resident said like it seems suspicious. Someone put it in there and they were. like unclaimed items. [music]. They did not know that those items could.

be connected to a crime that Gilbert Py. was in charge of. Bottom line is [music]. if there was anything in that bag that. could definitively tie Louise to. Alyssa's death, we will never know. Cuz. by the time Gilbert PD pieced it all. together and inquired about the bag, it. was too late. Everything was gone. But. let's go back to the Louise [music]. interview. No, Gilbert PD didn't search. the backpack. but they know Mesa PD did.

and there was enough there written in. their report to make them suspicious. [music] Now, at this point in the. interview, Louise again brings up his. sex offender status, [music] but. restates that he was innocent of his. assault charges. And he elaborates more. this time and tells the detectives that. he committed a burglary where two women. fell out of a window. But then they went. to court and claimed that he sexually. assaulted them and the only reason he. plead guilty was because he went to.

court chained to a lot of men who wanted. to do bad things to him. So, he was. forced to is what he says. Do we know. anything about this case? >> Well, I wouldn't just from Gilbert's. report. There is nothing there, but. obviously I am here trying to solve a. mysterious death, not to just like tell. you a story. So, we foyed the Maricopa. County Superior Court. And according to. those files, [music]. the first incident involving Louise took. place in June 1990. He would have been.

just around like [music] 20 at the time. And the file says that he ambushed two. sisters while they were asleep at home. and that he was already naked when he. jumped on them in their shared bed and. attempted to assault them. >> And this is what Louise is talking about. when he said two women [music] fell out. a window. >> I am not 100% sure because we weren't. given the full incident report, only the. court filing. So like it's possible, but. there's like no mention of a window or. anything that I can see. Now, the second. incident took place in February of 1991,

[music] and we actually do have the full. incident report for it. It says that. Louise forced his way into a physical. therapy office naked, [music] found a. woman as she was leaving work, and. forced her to the floor where he tore. her clothes off, and attempted to. sexually assault her. Louise hit her in. the face several times, threatened to. kill her if she didn't shut up. But. right then, the burglar alarm sounded. and the office phone rang. So, Luis ran. off. [music] And how did they know it.

was Luis, you might ask? Well, according. to the file, he defecated at the scene. But I don't even know if they like had. to test that because he also left his. photo ID there as well. Now, what's. interesting about all of this [music] is. the prosecution moved to try both crimes. at the same time, citing that, quote, "The offenses charged therein are of. [music] the same or similar character, are part of a common scheme or plan, and. the evidence in each [music] case is.

admissible in the other for purposes of. proving intent, plan, knowledge, and. identity." In their motion, the. prosecution noted that in both cases, while already naked, Luis [music]. ambushed unsuspecting victims that he. didn't know prior and attempted to. sexually assault them. Louise said that. he got the urge to rape victims [music]. shortly after seeing them and then just. acted spontaneously. He got convicted on all three counts of. attempted sexual assault and he went to.

prison for 17 [music]. years. So, now let's circle back to Alyssa's. [music] case because there are a lot of. dots here that kind of connect. themselves. [music] For one, we know. Alyssa was found naked and some of the. clothing that was found nearby the crime. scene [music] was torn. According to. reports, Alyssa's DNA wasn't found on. any of that clothing. But I can't help. but think back to the original woman who. messaged Chelsea on Facebook. She. mentioned seeing Louise put clothing in. the backpack in the power box.

Obviously, all of it would have been. destroyed by Mesa PD if it was even. still there by the time they collected. it. >> Now, we know Louise was at the library. every day, according to the librarian. >> Almost every day. >> Alyssa gets there very early in the. morning before the library is open. before anyone is around. Does Louise see. her and get a spontaneous urge like he. admitted to having in his [music]. previous crimes? Someone took Alyssa's clothes and her.

journal with her religious writings. Louise has those kind of writings in his. backpack. [music]. He has a woman's hair tie. He has latex. gloves and latex gloves were found at. [music] the scene. So, knowing that, let's circle back to that November 2018. interview at the library. Once again, Louise and the detective start [music]. discussing a polygraph test. Luis asked. the detective what good a poly would do. if it wouldn't 100% clear him. [music]. And the detective says that it would at.

least help eliminate him, right? So then. for the second time, a polygraph is. scheduled like not [music] right then, but it's scheduled for the end of the. month, November 29th, 2018. But before. it can happen, Louise calls to reschedu. for December 4th, because he will no. longer be available at that time in. November. >> I I'm like dying to know what he's so. busy doing. >> I have no idea. So December 4th comes, Louise and the officer, they do meet, but it seems like the meeting is just. for the officer to relay to Louise that.

the polygrapher won't be available now. until December 27th. So Louise agrees to. meet the detective then, [music]. but on that date, the detective shows up. to the library, waits for an hour. [music] and 15 minutes, and Luis never. shows. He never texts, he never calls. And from the files I have, that seems. like the end with [music] Luis, there is. nothing to show that he has ever been. interviewed again since [music] 2018.

So, as far as I can tell, he was never. even given that polygraph examination. that he apparently agreed to, said he. would do. >> Okay. It's It sounds like he had a. phone, though. like call him, reschedu. like. >> well like apparently all you have to do. to get off Gilbert Py's radar is like. >> ghost them. >> not call them which is like great. >> I mean is it like that they like somehow. can't find him again? >> I don't know for sure, but if I had to. hazard a guess, I would say that this. guy is probably just like in the same.

oneb block radius that he's been since. the [music] start. Like. >> if they really wanted to pin this guy. down, I just don't think it would be. that hard. >> Yeah, it seems like they like aren't. even trying. >> It doesn't even seem like they're. interested in talking to him again. because it's not that they can't find. him. You know what? I actually know that. because we requested a list from the. Gilbert PD of all the police records. involving Luis Bueno. And he's most. definitely been in contact with police. officers [music] since 2018. like. records show that he has been named in.

reports for traffic violations, urinating and defecating in public, trespassing, [music] and more. We tried. to reach him for comment, but we never. heard back from any of the numbers that. we tried, including those in his court. records. All of those have been. disconnected. So, I think next step. would be a visit to the library. Right. The way I see it, there are a lot of. things that don't look great for Louise. in this, but there isn't any hard.

evidence they have, but I also like I. don't feel like it doesn't feel like. they're looking for it. Doesn't feel. like they're really trying to get to the. bottom of this. It feels like the case. has stalled and nothing is [music]. happening. So, we reached out to the. Gilbert PD to see what [music] is. happening with this case. And in the. 11th hour, of course, always they gave. us this statement that I'll have you. read.

The initial death investigation. involving Alyssa Romanine has been. thoroughly investigated by Gilbert. detectives. While the Maricopa County. Medical Examiner determined the cause of. death as undetermined, [music]. investigators have exhausted all viable. leads and available evidence at this. time. This case has not been forgotten. [music] This case has remained under. periodic review since its initial. closure and is currently assigned to a. detective [music] for additional review. and may be reactivated if new. information becomes available. Gilbert.

PD also continues to monitor. advancements in forensic technology that. may assist in case evaluation. There you. have it. >> If they're still monitoring forensic. advancements, that should mean they have things to. test, right? >> I I maybe I mean, we know all the stuff. from Mesa's gone, >> but the one thing that I keep coming. back to are the latex gloves they found. [music] Like, they found a full one and. they found a piece of one. I can see. that they were both tested back in 2016.

[music]. The results though are pretty redacted. But all I can read is that the full. latex glove had male DNA present. They. also seemingly found male DNA on [music]. there was this like black phone case. that they found too, but conclusions and. like other like testing results, whatever are redacted as well. >> I feel like you would have told me this, but like do we know who that DNA belongs. to? >> We do not. I can't even tell if anyone. that we've mentioned in these episodes.

has been tested [music] against it or. did they get a good enough profile to. put into COD, >> right? >> I mean, as we know, there is a lot that. is redacted in the file, but the reports. start really trailing off after 2019. In. 2020, I know the PD renewed search. efforts for Alyssa's missing belongings. in the riparian, which were. unsuccessful, [music]. and they sent a sample of Alyssa's liver. tissue collected in 2016 to a private. lab for expanded post-mortem forensic.

examination. >> Okay. What were they looking for? >> It said that they were just doing like a. broader talk screen. [music] So, >> Okay. But didn't they already do a talk. screen? >> They did a talk screen. I don't know if. there was something specific they were. looking for. I don't know if they found. anything because there are no results. mentioned in the file. I don't know if. this is part of like them being like is. there a reason, you know, what the. family keeps telling us is like it feels. like they're looking for like she did. this, right? Like even though they're. calling it foul play, they like they've. always had this [music] like impression.

>> that kind of this kind of fits into. that. >> It's just like this undercurrent in the. whole case. Now, I know in 2021 there. was this like moment where they. interviewed a wildlife photographer who. frequented the riparian, but she turned. out to have no relevant information. And. then in 2022, the case was documented as. being [music] under a formal FBI cold. case review. But the only reason we know. that is from a singular status line in. the file with no additional context, no.

followup. Alyssa's family wasn't even. aware of the FBI review until our. reporter told them. But what's even. stranger is that when asked, the Gilbert. PD representative told us that. regardless of what the file says, the. case actually hasn't been sent to the. FBI. >> So, the line in the file is a lie. The. rep said that his guess is that there. was maybe just like a discussion between. the detectives at the time, but [music]. like whatever they were discussing about.

sending it to it just like never came to. fruition, but it literally says like in. the file, quote, "Currently under FBI. cold case review," end quote. So, >> right, not like we're thinking about. sending this. >> maybe having a I don't know. I really. don't know. >> Which makes me like [music] distrust. everything else in the file. Well, while. we're on the topic of trust, do you. remember from our past Gilbert, Arizona. episodes, so the Arizona Attorney. General's office was looking into.

allegations about Gilbert PD destroying. [music] police records, right? >> Well, just a few days before this. recording, I haven't told you this yet. >> [music]. >> They put out a statement saying that. their review found that the files in. question were deleted as a result of. what do you know an administrative. error. >> You know, it's always that. >> there's so many errors and thus there is. no evidence supporting the likelihood. [music] of a successful prosecution. So.

no criminal charges will be filed. Of. course, >> we have heard from the people in Gilbert. loud and clear. The status quo ain't. working. Something's got to give. The. people of Gilbert want more from their. public servants. Also, like if there is. like no repercussions for like any. heirs, I've said this before, like every. other like job and profession. I feel. like when you have people's lives in. your hand, like there's a standard. say.

even if you don't like there are still. like expectations and things that you're. responsible for [music] to do well. >> You can do whatever you want. You can. just apparently you can do whatever you. want and like as long as you like check. a box and say you're trying and like. oopsie it doesn't matter. According to. Alyssa's sister Chelsea, the last time. investigators spoke to her mom was in. 2019. And from what I can see in the police. report, it seems like that conversation. was to inform her that Alyssa's case. would be reassigned to a new detective.

So, they apparently weren't informed. that in 2020 the [music] case got. reassigned again. After this long, the. family deserves more answers than what. they're getting. >> What does the full autopsy report say? What has or has not been tested? And. after they learn everything that has. been done, the question then is what. else can be. >> right, >> police should continue to push on. Louise. I think it would be worthwhile.

for them to find this [music] Sammy guy. And it's worth looking into any members. of the last reformation movement that. Alyssa might have had contact with. It's. worth finding out who that number was. that she was in communication [music]. with. And these are only the leads that. I was able to identify or connect from. the file, >> the heavily redacted file. >> There are other possibilities out there, ones that the family even suggested to.

police early on, [music] like one of. Alyssa's ex-boyfriends, who, according. to Michelle, never got over Alyssa. Michelle said they split years before. her death, and he knew that she had. moved on, but he was still quote. obsessed with her. he was still reaching. [music] out to her and trying to get her. back or trying to get back in her life, I should say. And not only that, but. Michelle says that he was abusive to. Alyssa while they were together. When we. asked Chelsea about him, she said that. she has a vivid memory of being like 12.

or 13 and overhearing a phone call. Alyssa made to her parents house where. she was screaming that she needed her. dad's help because this man had [music]. severely beaten her. Michelle told us. his name, but that name never comes up. in the police file. Even though Michelle. said that she and her mom specifically. told investigators they should interview. this guy. [music] It also happens that. shortly after Alyssa's death, according. to Chelsea, this same ex-boyfriend.

started seeing one of Alyssa's little. [music] sisters. What? Mhm. And. interestingly, that sister said that. [music] at his home, this guy had. something stuck to his fridge that said. Braden killed Alyssa. Why? He told. Alyssa's little sister it was because he. knew Braden did it. Now, we reached out. to Braden for comment, but as of this. recording, we have not heard back. According to Chelsea, this ex-boyfriend. passed away just last year. [music] But.

as far as anyone knows, he was never. questioned about Alyssa's death. And. this is just one more thing contributing. to the Roines family's lack of trust in. the [music] investigation. Their biggest. frustration from the jump was the lack. of communication from Gilbert PD. Chelsea told us [music] the onus fell on. her family to reach out for information. and eventually her mom just stopped. calling because she didn't have the. energy to be told again and again and.

again that there was just nothing new to. report which like listen I get [music]. not sharing details with the public that. like you know could jeopardize the. investigation but I mean I think the. family has the right to [music] know. I. know. But like not only like. what's wild to me is that like it's not. even like they like weren't telling them. like just some things. Like pretty much. everything that I've told you today, Chelsea said that her family had to. piece together on their own. Like they.

were sharing nothing. >> In 2018, Gilbert Police Sergeant Mark. Marino was at least willing to hint at. the possibility of foul play publicly. basically saying that they don't want to. release anything because they don't want. to jeopardize the case, but also there. is no threat to the public, but also. there might be they don't know they're. still working on it. Even in 2019, when. Gilbert PD got a new legal advisor and.

finally decided to release a highly. redacted version of Alyssa's. investigative file for the first time, the sergeant was just as wishy-washy. He. said Alyssa's was the most unique case. he'd seen. And even though it was. undetermined, they were working it as a. homicide, but also quote, "We don't have. clear-cut evidence to show that someone. else is responsible for her death. We. don't have clear-cut evidence to show. this was [music] an accidental death.". End quote. >> Okay. Tell me how on earth this was an.

accidental death. >> [music]. >> He just says, "At this point, we don't. have a predominant theory." There was a. little bit more to the statement that. they gave us, and I'll have you read what else they. [music] said. Quote, "We recognize the profound loss. Alyssa's family and loved ones endure, and our thoughts remain with them. We. remain available to the family [music].

should they have questions or wish to. discuss the case further. The thing is Chelsea says that many of. her family members have all but given up. hope that they'll get answers in. Alyssa's death. In 2023, Alyssa's dad, Ed, told the Gilbert Sun news, [music]. quote, "They never told us if they have. a suspect. It's all a big mystery. No. more information made us think not much. effort is going into [music] it. Chelsea. said she is still desperate for closure.

and she believes her family has grieved. in silence for too long. [music] So for. her sake and the entire Roine family, it's time to blow this case wide open. Time to change the narrative about the. death of Alyssa Romanine Olsen and. finally get answers about what happened. to her in that park in 2016. >> [music]. >> So, if you know anything about the death. of Alyssa Roine at the Riparian Preserve. in Gilbert, Arizona, you can contact the.

Gilbert Police Department by submitting. a tip at gilbertaz.gov/submit. a tip. Make sure it's in reference to. case number 16-9745. And as always, you can reach out to us. by [music] emailing tips at. audiochuck.com. Crime Junkie is an audiochuck. production. I think Chuck would approve.