The Mary Yoder Case Is Not Over

right now there's a lot of things un. unanswered questions that we have right. >> um the Gmail account and some other. things and like you said those don't. point to that they point to that phone. >> I know. >> you need to help us clear you. >> hi crime junkies I'm your host Ashley. Flowers. >> and I'm Brit. >> Last episode I walked you through the. first 5 months following the death of. Mary Yodar 60-year-old Mary was happy. healthy and beloved by her friends. family and patients near Udica in. central New York where she and her.

husband Bill were chiropractors with. their own practice. But out of nowhere, one Monday afternoon. in July 2015, Mary became violently ill. Her son had become sick with the same. symptoms a few months before, and it. took him a while to heal, but he had. So, initially, she and her husband. thought this was the same thing, some. kind of stomach bug. But in less than 48. hours, Mary was dead. And when. toxicology results come back, they. revealed something no one knew while.

Mary was alive. She had lethal levels of. a drug called cultine in her system, a. gout medication that she had no reason. to be taking. As it becomes clear that. Mary was poisoned, suspicion fell on her. husband, Bill, who had started a. relationship with one of Mary's own. sisters just two months after her death. But just as detectives were getting. started, an anonymous letter arrived at. their office, pointing the finger.

somewhere else entirely. The tipster. claimed that Bill and Mary's 25-year-old. son, Adam, had killed her. And there was. proof. The cultine bottle was still in. Adam's Jeep. And sure enough, when. police went looking, there it was with. the receipt of purchase emailed to Mr. Adam Yoder 1990@gmail.com. It all seemed just a little too perfect. for Anida County Sheriff's Lieutenant. Robert Nelson and investigator Mark.

Vanam. An anonymous letter that just. happens to lead them right to the. evidence. They had to wonder, was. someone trying to frame Adam? And if so, who? His own father. Police clearly. didn't have a full picture of this. family yet. So, they brought in one. person who knew all of these players, 22-year-old Caitlyn Connley. Katie had. dated Adam on and off for years, and she. was the office manager at Bill and. Mary's practice. But she was more than.

an employee. Mary considered her family, and she was even named in Mary's. obituary. And soft-spoken Katie didn't point the. finger at Bill. Instead, she told. detectives how suspicious she was of. Adam. But the more she talked, the more. convinced they became that Katie sounded. a lot like their anonymous letter. writer. So after that first meeting in. December 2015, detectives walked away. with a new question. Not did Adam do it,

but who is Caitlyn Connley and what have. we been missing? It turns out a lot. You. ready to dive in, Brett? >> Let's go. As soon as detectives found the cultine. with the receipt in Adam's car, they. began trying to trace where it came from. and who it was shipped to. What they. found is that the 1 g bottle of powder.

was mailed from a company in California. to the Yodar's chiropractic office in. February 2015, addressed to Adam. But. the person who signed for it was the. office manager, Katie Connley, which. isn't unusual, right? She signed for. most packages at the practice. What is. unusual is her connection to the email. address that ordered it. Google records. show that the email used to buy the. cultine, that Mr. Adam Yoda 1990, it was. accessed from the Conley's home IP.

address where Katie lives with her. family. Then in late November, that. entire Gmail account was deleted using. her phone. So just a few days after they. spoke with Katie, investigator Van Amy. and Lieutenant Nelson asked her to come. back in and they confront her with what. they found. You say you've never heard. of Mr. Adam Yoder 1990 email address, but it was deleted from your phone. How. do you explain that? At first, Katie. suggests maybe Adam accessed it using.

her cell at some point, >> like logged in or deleted it. >> Logged in, which you get it. It doesn't. explain the thing investigators are. actually asking about, >> right? >> So, eventually she admits that she is. the one who deleted the account, but. only after she just stumbled across it. The thing is, even that doesn't really. make sense because when you delete a. Gmail account, you know what? You need. the password. Yeah. So detectives push. her. You knew the password at some. point, Katie. What was it? She says she.

can't remember. Now they humor her. though, not going super hard because. they can tell that she's building. towards something. And finally, she. comes out with it. Adam confessed to her. and told her that he ordered the. cultine, had it shipped to the office, poisoned his mother, then stashed the. bottle in his jeep. She says Adam. regrets it, that she thinks he killed. Mary by accident, mostly because she. doesn't understand why he'd want to hurt.

her. But she also claims that he asked. her about cultureine about a year before. Mary died, wanting to know how to get. his hands on some. >> How do you accidentally plan something. for like a year? >> This it's not adding up. >> It also sounds a heck of a lot like the. anonymous letter that they got. Like. word for word, he regrets it. Did he. stash the bottle in his jeep? Bingo. And. and remember, they don't just think that. this letter came from a tipster trying. to do the right thing. Before they ever.

can tie anyone to it, they felt pretty. confident that the letter was written or. the letters, there was two of them, they. were written by Mary's real killer to. throw off suspicion. >> So, they press her on it. You wrote it, didn't you? And once Katie admits it, investigator Van Amy starts recording. In the footage, Katie is sitting at the. side of a desk in a small office. She's. quiet as she waits for Van Amy to come. back into the room.

We've been chatting for quite a while. today about a lot of things. Okay, I want to ask you some more species. I. really appreciate you helping us out and. pointing us in the right direction with. a letter into Adam. Okay. You follow me then? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Why yourselves up? >> Have I been anything less than nice to. you? >> I've been really nice. I just.

really smart. >> Okay. And you've said that to me a couple. times that Adam's really smart and he's. he's not going to let anything come back. to him. I understand that. But myself and my friends in the other. room, the investigators on this case are. really good at what we do. Okay? And we. always get to the truth. I believe you. about what you're telling me, Adam. You know, I just need your help to help. me prove it to Adam.

Okay. You can't prove it to Adam. >> Okay. Well, that that falls on me. Who. do you If you can't prove it's Adam, >> who's it? Who am I going to prove it is. then? Right. >> Who did he make this look like? It is. >> I'm afraid he put it back on me. >> You're afraid Adam did? >> Yeah. >> Why? >> I don't know. So that I can't I can't go. to you for help.

>> Do you know that he did that? Do you know that he's trying to point. the finger at you? But at the office, he said that if. anyone was going to get in trouble, it. was going to be. >> Why would he keep a container? Why would. he keep something that's going to link. him to the crime that he just committed? You know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> You could drop that in any garbage can. and nobody would have been the wiser. He.

put that in a soda cup or soda bottle, put in that garbage. You could have. thrown it out in here and we would have. never known. >> You can get rid of it anywhere. Why? Why. do you think I have held on to that? >> Why you keep it for so long? >> I'm going to ask you a straight up. question. Every time I ask these, I. already know the answer. >> Is it possible that somebody made it. look like Adam did this? >> Yes, but I don't think so.

It is possible that somebody planted. that on because I can tell you right now. in the FBI's studies and everything that. we went back on, guys don't hang on to. the murder weapon because that's why. they get caught, >> right? But guys also don't use poison. >> They say it's a lady's weapon. >> They say it's a lady's weapon. >> No. Now, Vanami has clearly been playing.

good cup. We believe you. We're going to. find the truth and help you. But Katie's. got her shovel and she just keeps. digging herself deeper. Uh, >> no kidding. I mean, poison is a lady's. weapon. Like, does she does she hear. herself? >> I I know it is looking worse and worse. for Katie. So, that's when Van Namy and. Lieutenant Nelson swap out and he gets a. little more direct with the questions. >> Here's some issues I still have. You got. to from you got to look at it from our. point of view. We're looking at one of. three people here. >> The husband.

>> Mhm. >> Adam or you. Okay. You're going to have. to help us. If you're telling us you. have nothing to do with this, you're. going to have to help us rule you out. Just like we got to help out Adam or. Bill, whoever is not responsible for. this, >> which is I'm trying to help. >> I know. Right now, there's a lot of. things unanswered questions that we had, >> right? >> Um the Gmail account and some other. things. And like you said, those don't. point to at they point to that phone. >> I know. >> You need to help us clear you. >> Yes. >> Katie has gone from witness to suspect,

but investigators aren't ready to arrest. her yet. They want to be able to. directly tie her to the culture scene in. a way that she can't like wiggle out of. So, they start digging into the digital. trail to piece everything together. And. there is a lot to unpack here, so just. bear with me. What they find is that the. Mr. Adam Yoder 1990 email account was. created back in September 2014 using the. IP address at the Yod's office. That.

same month, someone opened a credit card. in Mary's name. But the contact number. on that account, Katie's cell. Then a. couple of months later in December, a. prepaid credit card was used to try and. buy cultine online, but that order. failed because the supplier required. paperwork that the buyer didn't have. In. early January 2015, someone tried again. with a second prepaid card from the same. store. This time it went through and. they bought a gram of cultureine from. that company in California. Now to.

complete the order, the buyer submitted. a letter of intent explaining who they. were, why they needed the drug. Now, the. letter was supposedly signed by Adam and. Mary, and it listed Adam as the buyer. and claimed that he needed the cultine. to manipulate plant genetics. and it. also named him as the manager at the. clinic even though again he had not. worked there in years. Meanwhile, on the. front office computer, which Katie used. more than anyone, there were searches. for various poisons, including cultine.

and how much it would take to kill. someone based on their body weight. One. investigator even told ABC News that. someone took Mary's exact body weight. and plugged it into a formula to. calculate the fatal dose, although we. couldn't find that detail in the records. that we have. And what's interesting is. some of those searches happened about a. week after Adam went to the ER with the. same symptoms that Mary would later. have. Wait, is cultine what made him. sick, too? >> Well, at the time they just thought it.

was a stomach bug. I mean, they ran. blood work, they did scans, noted mild. inflammation in his intestines, gave him. medicine, sent him home. Never tied to. cultine because why would you do that. kind of thing unless again you're doing. an autopsy. Anyway, that same office. computer had been used to access the. Gmail account tied to the cultureine. order. So, the office computer she uses. the most has the Gmail account on it, the Mr. Adam 1990, >> which was also pulled up from her home. IP address.

>> And eventually the account gets deleted. altogether, but from her phone. >> Correct. But just staying with the. office computer for one sec. in November. 2015. So, this is around the time that. the anonymous letters were sent, someone. installed software on it to mask IP. addresses, a way to hide like what sites. had been visited, but it didn't work. The clinic's antivirus program logged. the activity anyway. And what it. recorded was that someone on that. computer during business hours was. downloading the masking software first,

then using a private browser to log into. that same Gmail account. So, whoever did. this took steps to cover their tracks. before they ever pulled it up, >> was trying to hide it in the first. place. >> And listen, there's also a typewriter at. the office, and the ink ribbon still had. faint impressions of what had been. typed, which matched the anonymous. letters sent to the ME in the sheriff's. office. Then on Katie's phone, investigators found a deleted note with.

lines that read 1990 at lowercase G and. capital A is gay. They figured that this. was shorthand for the email address. that's at the center of this whole. thing, Mr. Adam Yoder 1990@gmail.com. and maybe its password, which turned out. to be Adam is gay. Now, that same email. and password were also used to set up a. document scanning app on Katie's phone,

too. The app had been deleted by the. time they got to it, but the cloud. storage was still accessible, and in it. were scanned copies of every document. sent to the supplier, the order forms, the letter of intent, all of it. There. was also a letter of recommendation that. Mary had written for Katie with Mary's. signature on it. Implication being that. that could have been used to forge the. other documents. And there were other.

notes on Katie's phone that suggested. she had been like workshopping how to. frame Adam, drafting the language for. the letter, even references to legal. standards like what police need from an. informant's tip before they can use it. to get a warrant. Now, contrary to the. mountain of evidence they find on. Katie's phone, when they search Adam's. devices, those all come up clean. No. poison research, no suspicious searches,

no sign that he ever tried to buy. cultine. And the physical evidence tells. a similar story. Katie's DNA is. consistent with being a major. contributor on the cultine bottle, on. the cultine bottles wrapper, and under. the stamp on the letter sent to the. medical examiner. Adam's DNA doesn't. show up anywhere. So on February 5th, police bring Katie back in and. investigator Van Amy confronts her with.

something major. Some cases fade from headlines. Some. never made it there to begin with. I'm. Ashley Flowers and on my podcast, The. Deck, I tell you the stories of cold. cases featured on playing cards. distributed in prisons designed to spark. new leads and bring long overdue. justice. Because these stories deserve. to be heard, and the loved ones of these. victims still deserve answers. Are you.

ready to be dealt in? Listen to the deck. now, wherever you get your podcasts. When Katie comes back into the sheriff's. office in February, Vanami doesn't just. hit her with all the digital forensic. evidence. Like, he's got her on that. What he wants is to tie her to the. actual prepaid cards that were used to. buy the drug. So, he bluffs. He tells. Katie that police have surveillance. footage of her buying the prepaid credit.

cards. >> If you purchase them, you are involved. in this. I'm telling you, Kitty, there's no way. around this. Okay, I've let you sit. here. That's why I asked if I could show. you this. Okay, I let you tell me. I don't know how they. got on my phone. Okay, >> we're in a crossroad now. Okay, because. I know all along I don't ask a question. I don't know the answer to. Okay, >> you purchased those credit cards, didn't.

you? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, she admits to buying the. cards, but she is still insists that she. didn't actually buy the culture scene. And the only explanation she can offer. is that somehow Adam must have used. them. Even though, according to. investigators, cell records show that. Adam was nowhere near Katie on the day. that she scanned the documents needed to. make the purchase. >> Those documents were scanned in your. phone. I know that. And you were in. possession of your phone.

We're at a crossroad right now, Katie. And I'm going to be honest with you. You. lied to me earlier when you said you. don't know how those were scanned. I. know for a fact that you were in. possession of your phone when they were. scanned. >> Yes. >> You're saying you purchased this credit. card and it was immediately used for the. payment within a day. Who did you give. that credit card to then? If that's the. road we're going to go down, let's keep. rolling the snowball. That's not the only hole in her story.

You see, investigators had found a draft. of the anonymous letter saved on the. Google Drive connected to that Gmail. account. It had been edited in November, right before it was sent. So now, if. Katie admits to writing that letter, she. is also admitting that she had access to. the Gmail account. And if she was the. one using the account, she is the one. who ordered the poison. But what do you. mean if she admits to writing the.

letter? I I thought she already admitted. to writing it. >> She did, but now she's saying that she. didn't write this letter, the one that. was drafted in November. >> What? >> Yeah. She claims she sent a different. letter to police like back in September. >> We can prove without a doubt that it's. typed in November. >> Okay. >> Okay. We we know that. That's not even. that's not even a question. Okay. I'm. telling you in the one one of the last. times I talked to you, you told me about. sending the letter in November.

>> No, in September. >> You, Katie, I'm telling you, you didn't. There's no way you sent that letter in. September. >> That's what he told me. >> You didn't send the letter in September. You're the one saying Adam told you that. he did this. So, nobody else is is. involved in that. Your letter, nobody. else sent us a letter. We got one. letter. You said you sent us a letter. That's your letter. I'm confused. >> The way my brain almost exploded as I. tried to like untangle this. >> I mean, basically, if she wrote the.

letter, she owns the suspicious Gmail. account. And if she owns the account, that's it. I mean, did police get a. letter in September? >> No. The only letters anyone received. were the two in November. One to the. sheriff's office, one to the Emmy. So. investigators are starting to develop a. pretty clear picture of what they think. happened, including a firmer timeline. Cultazine poisoning typically shows. symptoms within 8 hours, but a large. dose can hit a lot faster. Their theory.

is that Katie laced Mary's afternoon. protein shake around 1 to 1:30ish on. July 20th while they were both at the. office. >> But why? Well, prosecutors theorize that. it all goes back to Katie's tumultuous. relationship with Adam. In their view, Katie is a scorned ex and Mary is just. collateral damage. Either revenge on. Adam or some kind of twisted attempt to. pull him back after he dumped her. supposedly for cheating on him. Either.

way, basically like an if I can't have. him, I'll hurt him or I'll be the. shoulder that he cries on after like if. I secretly create a tragedy. They also. say that this wouldn't be the first time. that Katie did something dramatic to win. Adam back, that she once faked an. ectopic pregnancy. She said that she. required a medically necessary abortion. which led to them rekindling their. romance. And according to prosecutors, it worked again this time because after. Mary died, Adam leaned on Katie and.

that's when they briefly got back. together. It's a compelling narrative. with compelling evidence to back it up. Which is why nearly a year after Mary's. death on June 13th, 2016, Katie gets. indicted by a grand jury on charges of. seconddegree murder, falsifying business. records, seconddegree forgery, and petty. larseny. The falsifying accounts are for. the documents that she allegedly created. to make it look like Adam bought the. cultine. And the other charges came out.

of the investigation. I guess the. forgery is for a parking ticket that she. supposedly signed with Bill's name and. then the larseny is for about 90 bucks. that the investigators say she stole. from the office. Now, the assistant DA. knows that most of the evidence that. they have is just circumstantial, but. she still firmly believes that the case. is really strong. Except not everyone is. convinced. According to ABC News,

Katie's arrest sends shock waves through. their small community. The Yoders and. the Connley's are both well-known. families, and this case creates this. real divide. In fact, some of Mary's own. sisters side with Katie. They are still. much more suspicious of Bill even after. all of this comes out. >> Yep. I'm I'm presuming not including the. one dating him. >> Oh no. Yeah. So, uh the ones who are.

suspicious are still the same trio that. I mentioned before. Janine, Sharon, and. Sally. And even though authorities say. that there's no evidence implicating. Bill, that is exactly the argument that. the defense makes when Katie's first. trial begins in Onida County Court in. April 2017. Katie's attorney, Christopher P, says that Bill had. something that Katie didn't have. real. motives, a troubled marriage, money. problems that went away when Mary died, and possibly an affair with Mary's own.

sister. Starting with the marriage, P. says that it wasn't as solid as Bill. claimed. Before they even tied the knot, I guess Bill had suggested keeping. things open, which they decided against. And Bill says that he never cheated on. Mary, but at some point he started. disappearing to hotels on various. weekends. those solo trips I talked. about supposedly to write. And so they. kind of pose this question like, was. that really the only reason he would.

take these trips? And then there's the. Kathleen of it all. What kind of guy. takes up with his dead wife's sister at. all? Let alone 2 months after your wife. dies. And how do we know they even. waited that long? I mean, sure, Kathleen. and Bill say it all began in September, but a neighbor of Kathleen's testifies. that she saw them on Kathleen's front. porch, all snuggled up, looking very. much like a couple the week before Mary. died. And don't forget about the money.

True, Mary didn't have any life. insurance, but Bill had recently. inherited that close to half a million. bucks from his dad. And after Mary died, he told one of his daughters, Tamron, that while it wasn't enough for two. people to retire on, it was for just. one. And what's up with Bill's behavior. after Mary died? Why did he ever. cremated before anyone knew what the. heck was going on? Why wasn't he more. curious about what killed her? Why. didn't he push investigators for. answers? Cuz it sounds like he was. moving on and was in love with someone.

else. >> Yeah. And it seems to be the thing that. people have a problem with. Mhm. >> There is also a strong possible link to. the poison. Maybe Mary ordered it for. gardening and Bill then used it against. her. Or maybe he bought it. Either way, he would potentially know what to do. with it. I mean, remember how Mary's. sister mentioned that Bill had. experimented with growing marijuana back. in the 80s. >> Actually, the letter of intent to the. supplier to get the cultine was all.

about manipulating plant genetics. I. >> and that was Bill's world, not Katie's. So, the defense is saying that she. didn't know anything about that. >> I mean, sure, maybe she didn't, but how. do they explain away all of the digital. stuff tying Katie to the culture scene? Like, there's so much. For her defense. attorney, Py, he goes after that, too. He says that the state's forensic expert. is unqualified, uncertified, a college. student who cherrypicked data to fit his.

theory. And he argues that the digital. trail isn't as solid as it looks. I. guess the Conley's home Wi-Fi, which. Adam actually set up, wasn't password. protected, so anyone nearby could have. used the IP address. So theoretically, they're saying someone could have been. outside the Conlay's house and connected. to their Wi-Fi. >> Yeah. If the range was wide enough or. somebody who would have been over at. their house, but didn't they check all. of Bill's devices to see if he did.

anything like that? Eventually. I mean, they had his phone records pretty. quickly. But here's the thing. When that. Adam letter came and then they started. looking at Katie, for some reason, checking Bill's devices got put way on. the back burner, which I think comes. back to bite them during this trial. because apparently right after Mary. died, Bill told his daughter Tamron like. not to touch either of their home. computers because they had viruses. But.

investigators didn't collect any of this. until September 2016 and then some data. couldn't be recovered at all. Plus, Bill. was apparently no stranger to computers. He managed the network that connected. all the chiropractic office computers. for years, and a lot of the stuff was. done on the office computer and with. office supplies, right? Typewriter, envelopes. Yeah, sure, Katie used all of. that the most. But the defense points. out that it was Bill's office after all. Like, he could use any of the equipment. he wanted, including envelopes that.

Katie had pre-stamped. So they're trying. to argue that even though her DNA was. found under one of the stamps that she. could have done that at any random time. >> Yeah. And he just like grabbed one. >> Is there any physical evidence pointing. to Bill? >> Uh so DNA results on the cultine bottle. were inconclusive. So the science could. not rule him in or out. >> I thought the DNA on the bottle was. Katie's. >> It was. But there was actually at least. three profiles. So Katie was the only.

one like or the only match that could be. like fully identified and they were able. to completely rule Adam out, >> but for some reason not Bill just based. on I guess the sample they had or. whatever. And listen, there is also a. problem with the prosecution's theory. that Katie poisoned Mary's protein. shake. Mary's medical records from when. she was admitted to the hospital say. that she had a protein bar and grilled. chicken that day. There was nothing in. there about a shake. Okay, but where's. that coming from? Like, did she tell.

them during intake? >> Yeah, this isn't like stomach contents. or anything. She comes into the. hospital. Mary's telling them herself. She was still like coherent when she. comes to the hospital. And sure, right? Like she's in like the worst position or. like the her the worst spot. She's so. sick. Maybe she misspoke. Maybe she had. both. Maybe someone wrote it down wrong. But P offers another idea that maybe. Bill could have slipped the cultene into. Mary's food on the morning of July 20th. and possibly given her a second dose.

while she was still at the hospital. So. they're saying she was poisoned twice. Well, the experts can't rule it out. Apparently, there's no way to know. exactly how much cultine Mary ingested, but the fact that it was in her stomach. fluid during the autopsy indicates that. it got into her system orally rather. than through like inhalation or. injection. And keep in mind, this was. after 2 days of vomiting. So, the. pathologist says that the levels in her. system were actually rising when she. died, like her body was still absorbing.

it. Now, the prosecution has an. explanation for that. They say it has to. do with the way that drugs can shift. around in the body after death. And. their toxicologist says a second dose. would have triggered a fresh round of. symptoms, which did not happen. But the. defense pushes back. Mary was on. anti-nausea medication at the hospital. So they are saying that could have maybe. masked new symptoms. And so it's just. like this pingpong back and forth at. trial. But you said in part one that. Katie was at the hospital with Mary and.

the family. So, if there was a second. dose, who's to say who actually gave it to. her? Like, what about it is tying Bill. to this theory and not Katie? Well, because Katie wasn't there at the. hospital until Wednesday, like closer to. the time that Mary died. Bill was the. only one there with Mary on Tuesday. before she took a turn for the worse. And Mary wasn't supposed to eat or drink. or anything while she was hospitalized. But Bill admitted that he brought her.

cough drops and an inhaler from home. when she asked. So either one could have. theoretically been laced. But it's not. clear if those things were ever tested. Although, as far as I can tell, they. weren't. >> My head is. >> spinning. I know you're you're not the. only one. This trial stretches on for. over 3 weeks with dozens of witnesses. The jury goes on to deliberate for. nearly 24 hours, over 5 days, but they.

are hopelessly deadlocked. Reportedly 10. to2 in favor of a quiddle. So on May. 18th, 2017, the judge declares a. mistrial. No verdict, no closure. Katie is in. legal limbo, still charged with murder, and prosecutors aren't about to let. things go. 5 months later in October, they bring Katie to trial again. Now, the theory is the same, but this time,

the prosecution has a new ace in the. hole. As they prepped for round two, investigators re-examined Adam's laptop, and they realized that one of the phone. backups on it wasn't from Adam's device. It was from Katie's. In August 2015, so. just weeks after Mary died, Katie had. plugged her iPhone into Adam's laptop. and without meaning to, she triggers a. full backup, preserving everything on. that phone at the time, including stuff.

that she later deleted. What they found painted a picture of. someone doing their homework. In the. fall of 2014, Katie started researching. different poisons and screenshotting. articles about how deadly each one was. By December, she seemed to land on. cultine. She was researching chemical. suppliers, looked up the prognosis and. treatment of cultine poisoning, and then. ordered it using those fake documents.

that she'd scanned with her phone. To. prosecutors, this is a smoking gun, and. they're feeling good. as everyone crowds. back into the courtroom. But I don't. think they are expecting the curveball. that Katie's new lawyer is about to. throw at them. Katie's defense attorney for trial. number two is a guy named Frank. Policelli and he has a whole new. approach. Instead of accusing Bill,

Polelli lays the blame on Adam. This. time, the defense says that Katie. actually tried to help investigators see. what was really going on. But they were. so focused on her, they dismissed. everything she told them, including her. claim that Adam had confessed to her. According to Pichelli, here's what. really happened. Adam was desperate, volatile, and had a strained. relationship with his mother. And when. he couldn't hold on to Katie, he.

concocted a plan to poison Mary in a way. that would make sure Katie took the. fall. Think about it from this angle. Adam actually studied computer science. in college and he had way more digital. knowhow than Katie. He had used her. devices in the past. Was it really a. coincidence that her damning phone. backup was on his laptop? >> I mean, you got to find a way to explain. that new evidence. In Bolichelli's view, Adam could have planted or manipulated. any incriminating data. He had access to.

the Yodor's office, too. Even had his. own key, which he claims he lost. And. when police searched his Jeep, they. found goggles and gloves and a face. mask, the kind of stuff that you would. want if you were handling something. toxic. But investigators never collected. those things, let alone tested them. And. yes, the relationship between him and. Katie was toxic. No one disputes that. But Policelli says that Adam was the. problem, not Katie. She had moved on. She had a new boyfriend and she was.

making plans for a future while Adam. couldn't let go. Apparently, over the. years, she had lent him thousands of. dollars that he never paid back and she. was scared of him. By his own admission, he had gotten physical with her. Said. that he slapped her in the face a few. times at a party in 2013. if he's. willing to do that in front of people. You know what's happening when no one's. watching? And then there's the sexual. assault allegation from 2014 that Katie. told the detectives about in their first. meeting. Remember that? Now, Adam denies.

it, but he also admits that he was so. drunk that night, he doesn't remember. anything. So, how can you deny something. you don't even remember? >> Well, here's the thing. Prosecutors. actually don't even believe Katie about. it either. She had given police photos. of injuries that she said came from the. assault, but when investigators pulled. the data, capture times told a different. story. Some were taken nearly a year. before the night in question, others. were months after. None of them matched.

up with when she said like they were. supposed to have happened. >> And so, just like this, for almost every. argument the defense tries to make, the. prosecution comes back with a one-two. punch. And they insist via expert. witnesses who did the data extractions. that there was no digital tampering or. modification and nothing pointing to. Adam at all except for Katie's word. They are confident that the right person. is on trial. But they do start to worry.

that some jurors might believe Katie. didn't intend to kill Mary, just make. her sick, like the way Adam got sick. before from who knows what. Which by the. way, even back then, like when he got. sick, he made sort of a joke, question. mark, that Katie poisoned him, cuz he. said that he got sick right after taking. some supplements that she had given him. Uh, >> can I just say that if that thought even.

crosses your mind when you're in a. relationship, run, >> get out. Yeah, but that half joking, did. she poison me thing, that's something. that we know from Katie's original. interview with detectives and messages. that she and Adam exchanged. And at. trial, the defense actually brings up. Adam's illness, too. But they suggest. that Adam poisoned himself for attention. and then later did the same to Mary. Or. maybe he bought the cultine to grow. marijuana and then got sick while. handling it. But either way, this ends.

up backfiring. Like I said, the. prosecution's getting a little nervous. So, they go and ask the judge, "Listen, instead of just guilty or not guilty for. seconddegree murder, can we give the. jury an option? Can we add firstdegree. manslaughter? That way, it won't be an. all or nothing on seconddegree murder.". Now, the defense tries to keep the. lesser charge off the table, but they. can't because by floating the theory. that Adam poisoned himself and then.

Mary, they'd basically open the legal. door and the state just walks right in. If Katie was behind both poisonings, maybe she just expected Mary to get. better since Adam had gotten better. So, was it ever confirmed that Adam had. cultine in his system or could he have. just been really sick unrelated?

>> We don't know. Investigators tested the. supplements from like the ones he was. taking when Adam got sick. Those came. back clean, but they don't even know for. sure if they were from the same bottle. that Katie gave him. So, like it that. part is all just still a big mystery. Either way, the question of intent is. now in the jury's hands, and in early. November, they start deliberating. At one point, it looks like they won't. even be able to agree. And everyone's. kind of like holding their breath, wondering if this is like going to be.

another mistrial, but they're able to. work through it. And after 2 days of. hashing it out, the verdict comes in. not guilty of seconddegree murder, but. guilty of firstdegree manslaughter. According to Observer Dispatch reporter. Jolene Clever, Katie's bail is revoked. and she is taken into custody. Even. after two trials, some of Mary's sisters. still don't believe that Katie did this.

When she is sentenced in January 2018, they ask the judge for leniency. And on. the other side is Bill with his and. Mary's children who all stand by the. conviction. To them, Katie took Mary's. love and repaid it with poison. And. Adam's voice, you can hear it break as. he talks about the guilt that he carries. for bringing Katie into his family. A. family who welcomed her because he once. loved her, but not anymore. He tells the. court he hates her for what she has. done. But Katie maintains that she.

didn't do anything and that the system. got it wrong, though the judge isn't. moved. The fact is Mary died in agony, never understanding what was happening. to her. And so he sentences Katie to 23. years. That was in 2018. So. realistically, she could have been in. jail until like 2041. But then an attorney named Melissa. Schwarz takes on her appeal.

and she zeros in on the warrant that. police used to search Katie's phone. Law. enforcement had permission to take the. phone, but apparently they didn't have. permission to dig through all of the. data inside of it. Schwarz argues that. Katie's trial attorneys should have. fought to get that evidence thrown out. They didn't. And that failure cost Katie. her freedom. And so just last year, the. appellet court agreed. In late January.

2025, Katie's conviction was overturned. And a few days later, she walked out of. prison free for the first time in 7. years. Now, you know, this overturned. doesn't mean exonerated. Prosecutors can. try again, and they're planning to do. exactly that. But almost immediately, they shoot. themselves in the foot. You see, when. Katie was released, her attorney asked. the judge to seal the case records,

which Schwarz told us is a pretty. standard for a conviction that gets. tossed. What's unusual is that the DA's. office didn't object. And so now all of. the evidence, police reports, witness. statements, digital records, all of it. is locked away, not just from the. public, but from prosecutors, too. Oh. Uh, why wouldn't they push back on that? >> I don't get it. Maybe they figured that. the seal only covered the conviction and. not the actual evidence, which like not. true.

>> And they should have known. >> Mhm. So, even though they got like a. whole another grand jury to do the whole. song and dance again, even get to the. point where they call Schwarz to. schedule Katie's arraignment because. they expect a new indictment soon, they. get blocked cuz it's at that point when. Schwarz is like, "Wait, did you unseal. the case first?". >> Right. Cuz like, what are you even going. to bring to this grand jury? Cuz it's. all tucked away. >> Yeah. And that's when the DA's office. has this like oh moment. They had been.

using evidence that they had no right to. touch. >> The judge orders them to stop and now. they're just stuck. They can't even ask. to unseal the records themselves because. only law enforcement can do that and. they can only do that if there's an. active investigation. But police have. admitted that no one is currently. working on Mary's case. So from there, it just spirals. The DA's office tries. to get the judge removed, accusing the. judge of bias, claiming that at some.

point she said that she thought Bill. killed Mary. The judge denies it, refuses to step aside. Then the DA files. multiple appeals. All of this back and. forth over months, which brings me to. right now. >> Oh, she's still out. >> Oh, yeah. This is active and ongoing. There is actually a hearing coming up in. April. But Schwarz says that the state. has been fighting the wrong battles that. they have been focused on whether the. judge was wrong when she ordered them to.

stop using the sealed evidence. But. again, even if they win that, everything. is still sealed. >> Yes. It's like arguing you shouldn't be. able to stay out of a room that you like. cannot get into in the first place. >> So, they're not even getting at the real. issue here. Plus, even if they do get. the records unsealed, most of the. evidence might be worthless. >> because of the. >> the appeals court decided that the. search of Katie's phone was illegal. Right. >> Right. They shouldn't The evidence. that's there shouldn't even be there.

essentially. >> Yeah. Anything that came from it, including the backup on Adam's laptop, the statement that Katie made based on. what cops found, all of it can be. tossed. >> Wait, why the laptop backup? Didn't they. have a a warrant for his devices? They. did, but there are a few problems with. it. Like for one, the only reason they. even knew to look at it was because they. had Katie's phone first. >> The fruit of the forbidden tree. >> Exactly. On top of that, there's a. question of whether Adam should have.

even had the backup on his computer. But. even if prosecutors can use it, it's. weaker now. I mean, at trial, they. verified the backup by comparing it. against the physical phone. basically. like matching digital fingerprints to. like prove nobody had tampered with it. with the phone suppressed now. They. can't have that. >> They can't even do that anymore. So, you're left with like a backup file that. they can't independently verify just. sitting on Adam's laptop. And think. about what the defense argued at Katie's.

second trial. Adam is techsavvy. Adam. had possession of the laptop. Adam had. every opportunity to manipulate what was. on it. Without the phone to prove that. those searches also existed on Katie's. actual device, the defense can say that. the only place this incriminating. evidence lives. >> is on the computer belonging to the guy. >> that they think did it. >> Yep. >> So, even in the best case scenario for. prosecutors, that backup is nowhere near. as powerful without the phone to back it.

up, for a lack of a better term. Actually, it could even hurt their case. But no matter what the path they want to. take is, the clock is ticking because. unlike murder, manslaughter has a time. limit. Swart says that prosecutors have. maybe three more years. And if they. can't retry Katie before then, it's. over. I mean, she got acquitted on the. second degree murder, right? They cannot. go back with that. All they have is that. manslaughter charge. And even if.

investigators wanted to take another. look at Bill or at Adam, which they. seemingly don't, they're out of luck. because they both got immunity when they. testified before the grand jury. >> What? I had the same reaction. Apparently in New York, that's routine. >> Routine. >> It doesn't protect you from perjury if. you lie. But it does mean that neither. of them can ever be prosecuted for. Mary's death, which as it stands, there. doesn't appear to be any evidence for. anyway. As of right now, the case is.

officially unsolved, but only on paper. Police are sure that they arrested the. right person. Prosecutors are sure that. the right person was on trial. >> And what does Katie say? >> You know, she actually did an interview. within the last couple of years with ABC. News for that docu series I mentioned in. the first episode. And I will say her. attorney told us that she feels that. when it came out, it lacked important. context in how some of it was presented, but the way it was presented, there were.

parts that I found kind of odd. Like. producers asked her if she ever searched. for lethal poisons on her phone. And. instead of just saying no, she told them. that she doesn't even have a reason to. search for poisons because she's not the. type of person who could do something. like that. And her parents who were also. interviewed said that when they asked. her straight up, did you kill Mary? Again, the answer is not no. She. basically told them, you know, I want a. family someday, so why would I. jeopardize my future? Which again, not.

not a denial. >> Like, no is right there. >> I know. But to answer your question, Katie says that she goes back and forth. Sometimes she thinks it was Bill. Maybe. Bill and Adam. She just knows it wasn't. her. Okay. I'm still confused about the anonymous. letters. Like, >> oh my god, that's like it's like the. murkiest part to me. >> Does she admit that she wrote them or. not? >> So, some people think that her initial. confession to police about writing those.

letters was coerced and that she didn't. actually write them at all. >> Okay. >> But during her second trial, Pichelli. said that Katie did admit to writing it, but then when ABC News asked her about. it, Schwarz stopped her from answering. So, you've got these like competing. claims. Either Katie wrote the November. letters, which ties her to the Gmail. account and the cultine order, >> or she wrote the letters, but somehow. the digital trail leading to the cultine. isn't as airtight as investigators.

claimed. Or she wrote a different letter. entirely that just never got to police. Or she didn't write any letters at all. and her confession was coerced. Well, >> that clears up absolutely nothing. Welcome to my world. I'm honestly not. sure anyone has a straight answer on all. of the letter stuff. I mean, so much. about this case is still up in the air. And our reporter, Nenah, reached out to. Bill and Adam, but we never heard back.

What we do know, though, is that Mary's. loved ones still feel her absence every. day, and the divide between them may. never heal. I don't know if Bill and. Kathleen are still together, but Mary's. other sisters that we've mentioned have. remained some of Katie's biggest. supporters. They even teamed up with the Conleys to. fight for her release, but they live. with the guilt of being the ones who. pushed for an investigation in the first. place, never dreaming that it would lead. to a woman that they now think is. innocent. Of course, the Yoders have. their own burdens. Tamron told ABC News.

that she struggles with the fact that. she once even suspected her own father. And she said that Adam, who didn't. participate in the show, may never stop. blaming himself for bringing Katie into. the family in the first place. No matter. what you believe happened, one thing is. certain, and it's really the most. devastating part of all. Mary wasn't. killed by a stranger. She was killed by. someone she loved, someone she trusted, and someone that she never saw coming.

You can find all the source material for. this episode on our website, crimejunkkey.com. And you can follow us. on Instagram, crimejunkie podcast. >> We'll be back next week with a brand new. episode.