The Marshland Murders of Massachusetts

Hi Crime Junkies, I'm your host Ashley. Flowers. >> And I'm Brit. >> [music]. >> And this is a story about what can. happen when a case feels solved, even. when it may not be. In Massachusetts, [music] two women from. very different worlds disappeared within. a few years of each other. One was last. seen leaving a bar. >> [music]. >> The other vanished after stepping out of. Logan Airport. Police would eventually say that these. two cases were connected and that they. had found the man responsible.

But after spending more than a year. reporting on this case, interviewing. witnesses, tracking down survivors, and. reviewing thousands of pages of records, we found a story that doesn't quite. [music] sit right. And our question is, was the wrong man blamed for these. crimes? And if so, then is the person or. people who actually committed these. murders. still walking free? These are the stories of Joan Webster.

and Marie [music] Iannuzzi. December 1st, 1981. is a Tuesday, the Tuesday after. Thanksgiving break, and the day that. Terry Webster really starts feeling. anxious about not hearing from her. youngest daughter, Joan. Their whole. family had been together for the holiday. weekend at their home in New Jersey, but. instead of driving back to college in. Massachusetts with her older sister as. planned [music].

on Sunday, 25-year-old Joan left on. Saturday night because she wanted to. make it to a study group. So, her dad. booked her a flight to Boston Logan. Airport. >> And she's at Harvard, I assume? Yeah, so. she is in grad school there for. architecture. And girl works hard, hence. [music] ending her break early just to. go home and study, which is probably. part of the reason Terry didn't stress. out at first when she didn't hear from. her daughter on Sunday. Like, you know, that's study group day. Whatever, yeah. Didn't hear from her on Monday. Maybe. she's just getting settled. But still.

not hearing a word from her by Tuesday. morning, now she knows something is up. And almost at the same time Terry's. starting to spiral, the phone rings. It's one of Joan's friends from Harvard, and right away Terry knows something is. wrong because the friend tells her that. Joan missed that Sunday study group, and. she didn't show up to class on Monday, either. So, Terry hangs up and calls. Joan's older sister. She lives close to. campus, and Terry asked her to go check. Joan's dorm room. But what her sister.

finds doesn't ease anyone's concerns. I. mean, before she even goes into Joan's. room, she sees notes on her door from. friends. And inside there is unopened. mail, and no sign that Joan's even been. in the room since before break. Now, Terry is the one to file a missing. person's report that same day. And by. the next morning, Joan's family has. their first clue. Because a call comes. into Joan's dad's office from a. fisherman. Apparently, he was walking. near the marshes in Saugus,

Massachusetts, which is like 6 mi north. of Logan Airport. And the guy says he. found Joan's wallet on the riverbank. And inside was a driver's license, credit cards, no cash though, but there. was this like card instructing whoever. finds the wallet to call Joan's dad's. [music] office. So, they call him, he. calls the police. And when they hear. about this, they're worried right away. because this marsh area where her stuff. was found, it is a known dumping ground. Like, for trash, for stolen stuff, and. for bodies. So, they go out to meet this.

fisherman, and they search the area. And. not too far from where he had found the. wallet, they find Joan's red leather. pocketbook with her checkbook inside. And this is a bad sign. Because of the. location, because of how the items were. scattered, police wonder if someone. could have thrown Joan's things out the. window of a moving car as they passed on. this highway that runs right over this. area. And if that's what happened, >> [music]. >> finding Joan and whoever took her might.

be even harder than anyone thought. because they're now four days out from. anyone last seeing her and who knows. where she could be now. I mean, at least. they know that she made it onto her. flight and to the Boston area. >> her stuff to be there, yeah, exactly. And they focus a lot of their attention. and early searches around the airport. specifically and that marsh area. And. they really do pull out all the stops. We're talking officers, dogs, helicopters, even scuba divers to comb. the river by the marsh, but there is no.

sign of Joan or anything else. >> And is the marsh area like on the way to. campus from the airport? Is like on that. route? >> No, that's the thing. So, this is like. in the complete opposite direction, which is what I think makes people even. more certain that if someone intercepted. Joan, it was more likely at the airport. than anywhere else because they also. start finding witnesses who say that. they saw her there. Passengers on the. flight confirm that Joan definitely made. it onto the plane. They say she seemed. relaxed for like the whole flight which. landed at Logan Airport around 10:30.

p.m. And then a few Harvard students who. flew that same day tell police they saw. Joan in the terminal, too. One friend. even remembers talking to her at baggage. [music] claim. Joan had this like. carry-on tote, she had her purse, but. she was also waiting on a bag, this like. dark suitcase with unique striping. Now, when the bag comes, she just grabbed it. and headed out to ground transportation. [music] and she told at least one person. at the airport that she planned to take. a cab straight to her dorm, which is. what her family knew her plan to be,

too. Her dad had even given her 70 bucks. in cash for the cab ride back to her. dorm. So, Joan walking to the exit is. the last confirmed sighting of her by. anyone who knew her. But the best lead that police get is. actually from someone who doesn't even. know her at all. Sometime in the first. week of the investigation, this cab. driver comes forward and says that. around 10:45 p.m. that night, a woman. matching Jones' description came up to.

his cab outside the terminal, like. knocked on his window, and asked. Cambridge, right? That's where Harvard. is. Feels a lot like Joan. >> Yeah. But the woman wasn't alone. According to the driver, an older man. was with her. Not like old old, but like. older than the 25-year-old Joan, right? And the driver thought maybe this guy's. like in his 40s. He's a white guy, about. 5'7" with curly hair and a beard, and he. was wearing these like round glasses, which is like I think pretty common for. the time. Now, this matches no one that.

Jones' family claims to know. But the driver said that the woman. seemed [music] to know this guy. >> like familiar. Yeah, or the woman who we. think is Joan. But here's where I think. start to get really weird. So, this. driver's like, yep, Cambridge, I got. you. [music] So, the driver goes to pick. up the guy's suitcase, and it is super. heavy. So, he makes a comment to the guy. about how heavy the suitcase was. And all of a sudden, the man gets really. aggressive. He told the driver he didn't. like the way that he was handling his. luggage, and he told the woman, you know.

what, we don't even need this cab after. all. So, he pulls the luggage back out. of the trunk and leads her away toward. another cab, this blue one. And this cab. driver just kind of like watches as they. drive off in this blue car. So, this. wasn't like someone grabbing her and. forcing her into a car. This is. presumably another passenger, maybe even. like another student if they were both. going to take a cab together to. Cambridge. >> Could be, or at least somebody who. worked at the college or was affiliated.

with it in some way. His age is what. makes me think you got to like broaden. the scope, but yeah, like someone going. where she was going. And it's not like. she had to bum a ride, like she had her. own money. She like could get her own. cab. So, if this was Joan, [music] it. seems to me like this guy was someone. she recognized from the school or. someone she planned to meet up with. But, that's the catch. This is the last. possible sighting of Joan. If that was her, why hasn't that man. come forward? For that matter, why. hasn't the cab driver who took them come.

forward? >> Wait, they never found the other cab. driver, like the one that that was like. in a blue car? >> Nope. The guy who saw them get into the. car clearly. Yeah, he couldn't tell which company the. cab that cab was with or who was driving. it. Just that the cab was like blue in. color. But, did did Joan say anything. about meeting anyone when she was home? >> No, I know a guy that she was seeing. planned to visit her over Thanksgiving. break and they ended up canceling. But, like her parents knew about that guy,

like that didn't seem like a big deal. Also, that guy was closer to her age, wouldn't be mistaken for 40-something. like this other guy. And I assume no one. else they know fits this. 40-something-year-old guy's description. >> Well, I don't know for sure because the. strangest thing happens. So, police take. this account from the cab driver. seriously enough to make a composite. sketch of the man described. But, as far as we can tell, that sketch.

was never publicly released. We actually. spoke to one of Joan's professors and. even other students who were at Harvard. at the time with Joan, none of them knew. that this sketch even existed all these. years later. Yeah. And it's not really. clear why. But, Joan's [music] professor. told us that early on, it felt to him. like police just assumed that Joan left. and that she was going to come back on. her own eventually. Which like I don't. even know where that assumption comes.

from because to me, all of the signs. right from the jump are pointing to some. kind of foul play. Like it's not like. they were hearing things from like the. family that would make them think she. walked away. Everyone who actually knew. Joan didn't believe that for a second. They know that she's a good student. She. was a resident advisor. She's super. responsible. >> And look at how you found her stuff. Like why would she walk away and dump. her stuff in this marshy area off of an. overpass? >> Exactly. I don't know if it was. ignorance, if it was negligence, or.

something [music] else entirely. But. there is something so wrong about the. way this investigation was run. Like I. said, we spoke to one of Joan's. professors and they told us that police. were coming around at first. They were. meeting with students. They were meeting. with faculty. >> They were not showing them the sketch. Not showing them the sketch. Yeah, to. see if they recognized this man who also. wanted to go to Cambridge. But also, they were telling everyone. that interviews are happening. They were.

telling everyone that leads are being. followed. But here's the wild thing. During these. like meetings where they were like. talking to people and bringing people. together, they caught the officers in a. straight-up lie. So police are in this meeting. They're. saying they're interviewing everyone. They're specifically saying that they've. interviewed everyone who was on Joan's. flight. But then someone in the room is. like, "Um hi. Uh. I was on Joan's flight and you never. talked to me.". Oh. Like egg on the face, right?

But even if this was like a simple. slip-up, it was a big Yeah. Like if investigators. missed someone that obvious, it raises a. bigger question. What else could they be missing? >> Mhm. So this is why when Joan's. classmates start getting the feeling. that police think she just like ran away. on her own, they get right to work. They start. calling newsrooms all over New England. They contact local papers. They work the. phones non-stop. They're passing out.

flyers. They're just trying to keep. Joan's story in the public [music] eye. It would have been real nice to include. a suspect sketch in those appeals to the. public. >> the life of me, I cannot figure out why. this wasn't widely distributed. >> or distributed at all, widely or not. Like this Even if you don't want to call. this guy a suspect, even if you think. there is a chance that that might not. even have been Joan, until you can say. "We know it's. >> we found this guy, we talked to him, we. know it's not him.". >> that wasn't Joan or whatever. Like I. feel you have to show it. Like you have.

to find the guy who has this unusually. heavy suitcase, last seen with a woman. who looked like your missing person. But. they. don't seem to do anything to find that. guy. Instead, most of the press pick up. just features Joan's family, who by this. point have flown to Boston themselves to. help out with searches and speak to the. press. By January, even with a $10,000 reward. offered for any information, no one. knows where Joan could be. She and all.

of her luggage are still missing. But little did anyone know, Joan's. luggage had actually been hiding in. plain sight since just [music] hours. after she walked off that plane. And where it's found could be the. biggest clue in this case. In the parks and forests you love, there. are stories waiting to be told. I'm. Delia D'Ambra, the host of Park.

Predators, [music] a true crime podcast. that reminds you sometimes the most. beautiful places [music] hide the. darkest secrets. Listen now wherever you. get your podcasts. On January 29th, 1982, [music]. police get word that Joan's missing. luggage has been found, but in the. strangest of places. Her suitcase is. found at a Greyhound bus terminal in. downtown Boston. This is around 5 miles.

from both Harvard and the airport and. about 10 miles from that marsh area. where her wallet and purse was found. And this is how they find it. So, this. employee was working at the bus terminal. said that they found the suitcase when. going through all of like the lost and. unclaimed luggage that they had in their. storage. Basically, it was their job to. take everything that had been sitting. there like, you know, piling up for a. while and they were supposed to take it. to a warehouse in New York. Now, I don't. know how they made the connection for. sure, but I assume that there was like, you know, those tags or whatever. >> Yeah. and that they recognized her name.

from the news because they knew to call. police when they came across her back. And what police learned when they had. the facility really dig into their. records is that the locker that her. suitcase was found in was rented about. 12 hours after Jones flight [music]. landed. So, like right around 10:30 in. the morning on Sunday. Now, those. temporary lockers are rented for 24. hours. So, the way it works is basically like when. the time is up and no one came back for. it, like. >> gets opened, you take the stuff out of. it, it goes into storage or whatever.

>> Right. Where it had been sitting for. [music] two months. And does anybody. remember who rented that locker by. chance? From the records it doesn't seem like. it, but I don't think this is a place. where you like go and like pay someone. It's It was one of those places where. you like go and you just like put 50. cents in and you like get a little key. and you come back for it. If you're not. back in 24 hours, the lock basically. turns red, employees know that they can. use their master key to open it, take. all the unclaimed stuff out. [music] And. if it's. Joan who rented it, that doesn't make.

sense because we know she planned to go. straight to campus. >> Right. Also, why store your suitcase, but then. like toss your purse and your wallet? >> And was this like her big checked. luggage, like the one with the stripes. or was it her carry-on? >> It was the checked one. The carry-on. actually has never been found. >> Oh. I mean, I guess you could make an. argument that like if this was her, wherever she's going, she's just like. traveling light. >> Okay, but why. check the bag and just like not ditch it. once you get to wherever you you need.

it? Like Like I don't understand why you. take it you take the checked bag to like. the storage area. And then you're like. again tossing the wallet and purse. Right. And this is like the weird thing, too, is like it doesn't seem like. anything was taken from the checked. luggage. Like all of her clothes are. still in it. So So. someone else had to have checked it in. at the bus terminal. You would think, but why? Why run the risk of being. spotted? Just like dump it somewhere, burn it. Like I mean like this clue is.

so confounding to me because like did. they want to keep this for some reason, but then they couldn't come back for it. cuz there was too much publicity around. Joan's case by then? Or was this some. kind of like sick game they were playing. hoping that someone would find it half a. century later and reporters and. podcasters would be speculating about. what it means? Like I think what really. gets me. >> [music]. >> is. that Joan wasn't reported missing for a. few days, right? >> was like Tuesday and this was checked on. Sunday morning. They could have gotten. it by like Monday morning. >> That's what I'm saying. So So someone,

Joan or someone else, they would have. had time to anonymously come back, get. the stuff, even if they had to go ask. staff for it. Nobody knows Joan is. missing in that first 24 hours, like. what before the locker turns to red. But. no one comes back for it. So if you're. trying to get rid of the luggage, again, why not just dump it with the. wallet and purse? Why not just dump it. anywhere else? >> it like the wallet and purse, not even. in the same area. Yeah. Trying to like. figure out the plan or like the logic. behind this, like it makes my head spin.

And it's why I keep coming back to like. this was some kind of game. Mhm. And in. the end, this mysterious clue doesn't. actually bring police any closer to what. happened to Joan. And they do even try. testing the luggage for prints and get. some. But without anyone to compare them to, like back in the day, like it doesn't. mean much. So, despite having local, state, and federal authorities all. circling this case and following leads, each working off of slightly different. theories, nothing is paying off. But.

then, like manna from the heavens, that. same year, in 1982, [music]. the Suffolk County Assistant District. Attorney, this guy Tim Burke, he's the. one who is assigned Jones' case. He gets this out of the blue call about. a totally different case that changes. the trajectory of Jones. Now, this call. that ADA Burke gets isn't even about a. case in his jurisdiction. [music]. This woman is calling from the next. county over hoping that someone in the.

DA's office in Boston can give her the. help that she isn't getting on her. sister's case. And her sister is Marie. Iannuzzi. She was murdered about 3 years. before Jones, but her case has never. been solved. And listen, she doesn't. even know if she's calling the right. guy, but someone suggested to her like. she just try. [music]. And her ask is simple when she calls the. ADA, "Will you at least take a look and help. me, please?" So,

even though it's kind of a side quest, the ADA does a preliminary look into. [music] Marie. And so, he has the lead. detective in her case walk him through. some of the basics. And as they did, both of them were struck by one aspect. of the investigation. >> [music]. >> Marie's body was found in that same. marshy area where Jones' [music]. things were dumped. And I don't know if. it was just that one detail or if they. got further in, but pretty quickly ADA. Burke has kind of married this random. case that he got a call about to the.

white whale case that he is already. working. Maybe they're connected. And. from that point on, that becomes almost. like fact. And I want to pause here. because the way that this case, this. story gets told even now says a lot. about who gets centered and who doesn't. Joan was a wealthy Harvard student who. got immediate attention from the media. and [music] from the public and from. powerful people who made noise. Marie.

was working class. She was from East. Boston. She didn't have an Ivy League. school behind her or a dad in the CIA. >> Whoa, Jones' dad was in the CIA? >> Yeah. Yeah, so like the big guns were on. her case and I think that's part of why. it got so much attention. But while. Jones' case had been everywhere, Marie's. case only got attention because of. Jones. >> [music]. >> And even then it sort of faded into the. background. And they're just connected. because of this like known dumping.

ground area. Well, well that's the thing. that grabs Burke's attention, right? ADA. Burke. But there is another big thing. that actually links the two forever. But. let me lay out a little bit more about. Marie's case [music] so you'll hopefully. see what they did. 20-year-old Marie. Iannuzzi's last day was Saturday, August. 11th, 1979. Again, this is 3 years before Joan. That was her dad's birthday. And Marie's sister told us that they.

grew up in East Boston in this like big. close-knit Italian family. And even. though their parents tried to shelter. their kids, like they'd really been. through a lot. Like Marie's brother had. actually been murdered, too, in like a. totally unrelated way. But Marie was. still trusting and loved to have fun. So. she wasn't suspicious of the world. around her. And nothing about the day. that Marie died tells me that she. thought she was in danger. She spent the morning with her parents. [music] and after Marie went with her.

boyfriend David to his cousin's wedding. Now, at the reception, David ripped his. pants, [music] which is like what good. wedding reception doesn't have ripped. pants. But he at that point was like, I. want to go home. But Marie wanted to go. to this after party at the groom's. family's house. So, her and David end up. having this argument about this. Witnesses we talked to who were at the. wedding [music] didn't describe anything. violent, just this like disagreement. David ends up leaving and Marie finds a. ride to go to this after party. This is. like around 5:30 that evening. Now by.

10:00, the after party was winding down. So, another guest named Candy agreed to. take Marie home. But on the way, Marie. asked Candy to just drop her off at a. bar instead, one near Logan Airport, which Candy did at around 10:30 p.m. Then Candy went back to the after party. where her boyfriend Lenny was waiting. for her. Now at some point, I guess. Marie had supposedly left some things in. Candy's car and so Candy and or Lenny. delivered those things back to Marie at.

the bar. And they were like two separate. trips where they saw her. And the last. time was after midnight. So, it would. now be August 12th. And that was their. story at least. Lenny says that the last. time he ran in to give her a set of. keys, he offered to give her a ride. home, but she said no because she was. meeting someone. He said they walked out. of the bar, he went to the car where. Candy was waiting, and Marie walked. around the corner and that is the last. that he saw of her. [music] And a. girlfriend who had met up with Marie at. the bar backs some of this up. She says.

that Marie was like making a phone call. right before Lenny showed up for the. last time. And as Lenny was leaving, so. was Marie. But Marie told this friend. not to leave because she was going to be. right back in like 30 minutes. Though. this friend's like, I you know, I don't. know where she was going. It wasn't. totally clear. But this woman confirmed. that she saw Marie walk out of the bar, same as Lenny, but then she never came back. That was. the last they saw of her. So, her family. reported her missing quickly, but it was. already too late because a A.

on August 13th, that's when her body was. discovered in the marshy area behind. this lobster company. Now, when she's. found, she's fully clothed with all of. her jewelry on. The only thing missing. were her shoes and stockings, which were. never found. But everything else was in. place, even her body suit that she was. wearing. Now, an autopsy determined that. she died from ligature strangulation, probably about 12 hours before her body. was found. And there were signs of a.

struggle, bruises and scrapes like on. her face and her arms, her legs. And the. medical examiner said there were no. clear signs of sexual assault, but it. was obvious that there had been some. kind of sexual activity between the. night that she went missing and when she. was killed, because the ME found sperm. after doing a vaginal smear. So, after she's found, like in the first. like, you know, early days of this case, there were basically two suspects. >> [music]. >> And that was Marie's boyfriend, David,

and Lenny. But investigators had quickly. zeroed in on Lenny, right? I mean, he is. the last person seen with Marie. He. would have known the marsh area because. turns out he's a fisherman by trade, actually sold fish to the very lobster. company near where she's found. >> Oh. And Lenny had a pretty long rap. sheet, including the abduction of a. 16-year-old girl and attempted rape of a. college student that he offered to drive. home. Now, he served prison time for.

that second crime. And Burke told us. [music] that to him, past behavior, especially sexual violence against. women, is one of the best indicators of. future behavior. He thinks Lenny got. bolder in his crimes as the years went. on, and that his psychology lined up. with the type of murder or murderer in. Marie's case, a murder that was sexually. motivated. Now, when police originally. interviewed Lenny and Candy, their. stories stood out to them. I mean, they. both had the same story that when Lenny.

and Marie walked out together, Candy was. waiting in the car, Lenny offered Marie. a ride home, but she said no, she's. meeting someone, and she walks off. around the corner. But, police noted. that like Lenny and Candy's stories. matched up almost too perfectly. Like, the case file says word for word. I. mean, I I get what they're like wink. wink nudge nudging at here, but if their. stories didn't match, I think that would. look bad, too, right? >> Totally. Again, I think it's like the. word-for-word part. Like, I To them, it.

seemed rehearsed, I guess. And in the. report, it says that Candy was really. nervous, like she was shaking when she. talked to the police. Now, she'd been. with Lenny for around 8 years, since she. was 18, and people we talked to who knew. them said that she would do anything for. [music] this guy. And he would push her. to do a lot. Because, guess who was his. alibi witness for the attempted rape. case that he ended up being convicted. of? Candy. Candy. Problem is, there was. nothing here in Marie's case to disprove.

their story, and nothing else to really. go off of. So, the case went cold for. nearly 3 years. Which brings me back to 1982. and this call from Marie's sister to ADA. Burke. So, now that he has gotten up to. speed on the details of Marie's case, and he's wondering if he could be. looking for the same perp, he goes to Jones' case file looking to. see if there's anything that might tie. Lenny to her disappearance. And sure. enough,

what do you know? Burke learns that a tip had come in. January. that ties everything together for him. In January of 1982, a week before they. found Jones' luggage, a woman had called. police to tell them about this scary. incident that she had with a man years. before. She never reported it and admittedly. there are. >> [music]. >> plenty of differences, right? Like but.

when she heard about the circumstances. of Joan's disappearance on the news, she. felt like she needed someone to know. about this thing that happened to her. Our reporter Malika Dollywall actually. tracked this tipster down back in 2025. so we could hear her story firsthand. And this woman claimed that years before. Joan disappeared, when she was in her. 20s, she had been out at a club one. night and this guy that she knew from. her neighborhood was there. And when she. was going to leave, he convinced her to.

give him a ride saying that he was like. sick, he needed help getting to the. hospital. But once she was in the car, he told her to go somewhere else, like. somewhere out by the water. And when she. realized that they weren't going to the. hospital, he pulled out a gun and tried. to assault her. Now, she said that she. was able to talk her way out of this. situation, reminding him that people had. seen them leave together. So, like they. knew she would be with him. But she said. this was the most terrifying moment of. her life and she just could not shake. this overwhelming sense when she saw.

Joan's story on the news, like what if it was him? What if he. wised up over the years, went after. someone that, first of all, he wasn't as. closely tied to. >> one could like confirm that he had been. with another person that night. >> at a place, right? But the airport where. so many people are coming and going, they might not remember who left with. whom. And here's the real thing that. made her sure she had to call police. She'd heard rumors that the guy who. pulled a gun on her was now driving. [music] a cab around Logan Airport, not.

through a company or anything, just kind. of like picking up rides unlicensed. So, that is what made her pick up the. phone and give police the man's name. Leonard Lenny Paradiso. Now, that tip didn't seem to go anywhere. at the time. But now that ADA Burke sees it, it means. everything. This is the same Lenny. from Marie's case. So, he kind of strong-arms his way into.

Marie's case and takes over even though. it's outside of his jurisdiction. Cuz if. he wants to get Lenny, he has a much. better chance of nailing him for Marie's. homicide. Mostly because Jones' case. isn't a homicide. They still haven't. found her. So, he throws himself into that one. And. listen, this isn't a slam dunk by any. means. It's mostly circumstantial. Even. the car that Candy and Lenny say that. they drove that night is long gone. >> Was it a a blue car by chance? No, it.

wasn't. [music] And it doesn't even. matter. I highly doubt he even had the. same car years later when Joan went. missing because over the last like three. or four years, Lenny and Candy reported. eight cars and like two boats stolen, damaged, or sunk for basically insurance. claims. So, I don't think it was and the. same one blue or not, but it wasn't. blue. I know that. Now, one of the. things that Burke finds to help his case. is a set of notes from Lenny's parole. officer. According to the notes, on.

August 13th, 1979, at around noon, this. would have been a few hours after. Marie's body was ID'd. Lenny told his. parole officer that he was worried about. police questioning him about her. Which. is like not something I worry about when. body turns up. >> Same. But, I mean, I might be if I was. the one last seen with her or seen with. her the day before. I mean, it's not. like it's some random person. He had a. connection to her. So, I don't know. Of. everything that Burke's got against.

Lenny, this is kind of like the least. concerning to me. Now, there is one. problem standing in the way of bringing. charges against Lenny. And that is David. Which is Marie's. boyfriend. Yeah. A good defense attorney would offer up. the boyfriend. Right? Like remember, he. was an early suspect. They were fighting. that night. He still hadn't been ruled. out. And actually, there was a lot of. suspicious stuff around him, too. According to police reports, David and. Marie argued the day that she's last.

seen alive. [music] Apparently, she was. seeing someone else, so there was motive. there, too. And he had been abusive to. her. He'd even strangled her just a few. months earlier. And it left her so. scared that she moved out of his place. [music] and stayed with a friend. Not to. mention, the morning after that wedding. they were at together, David called. Marie's family saying that she didn't. come home and asking if she was with. them. And that even struck them as odd. because he didn't usually check in like. that. Ultimately, ADA Burke decides to.

put this all to a grand jury. And he. does this in March of 1982. He's going. to present what they have in Marie's. case and let them decide whether to. bring charges against David or Lenny. And in his opinion, David was a. sympathetic witness. He answers [music]. every question. He owns up to what he. did. And he claims that he cried for. Marie when he was alone. And most. importantly, according to Burke, David. didn't have any connection to where. Marie's body was found. [music] But.

Lenny did. Again, he sold fish to that. lobster company. And I guess [music] the. grand jury agrees because they chose to. indict Lenny. And on July 6th, [music]. 1982, he's arrested for Marie's murder. and remains locked away until his trial. is set to begin. [music] And that time. between arrest and trial proves to be. invaluable [music] for ADA Burke because. an inmate named Robert Bond comes. forward in early '83. And he tells Burke. that Lenny had been doing some talking.

in jail. Bond said he got close to Lenny. when he was moved into the same jail. cell as him. And they'd actually serve. time together at the same prison before. And they got so close that Bond claims. Lenny confessed not to just one murder, but two. Both Marie's and Jones. In a letter to Burke, Bond writes that. Lenny told him that he drove back to the. bar Marie was at without Candy and. convinced Marie to get in Candy's car by.

telling her he needed to pick Candy up. But instead, he drives her to the. marshes, sexually assaults her, and he. says that during a struggle Marie. scratched Lenny. And so he made this. like specific comment that he didn't. want investigators scraping under her. fingernails for skin cells. Now, as for. Joan, Bond claims that Lenny told him. that on the night Joan disappeared, he. was doing his unofficial cab thing, picked her up at Logan Airport after she. got off her flight. And Bond says that. Lenny claimed he told Joan he needed to. stop by his office to like pick up some.

papers [music] or something and that. after that he'd take her to Cambridge. But he didn't. He drove Joan to this. pier where he kept his boat, the. Malafemmina, which means evil woman in. [music] Italian. And Bond says Lenny. took Joan onto the boat, offered her. drink, and when she said no and rejected. him, he hits her in the head. Specifically on the right side of the. head with a whiskey bottle and sexually. assaulted her. And that is when he took. the boat way out and dumped her body in.

the water. So, he tells investigators. that Lenny claimed there was a lot of. blood on the boat after this. And so two. days later, he took the boat out again. and just sank it. Bond says that Lenny. showed him pictures of the boat on his. like wall that they had. And he said. there were two. There's a smaller one. and there's a larger one. And the larger. one is the one that he sank. He even. describes the registration numbers. And. this all feels like ultra specific and. provable if it's true. Yeah. And around.

this time, another inmate comes forward. and backs up Bond's statements. He. claims that Lenny confessed to him, too. So, if investigators can find this. sunken boat, they might have a real. case. So, in the summer of '83, Jones'. parents announce this reward for any. tips that will lead to its location, and. investigators are searching the harbor. They're bringing in divers, and it takes. till September 27th, but that's when. they find the Malafemmina. They raise it. from its watery grave, but there's no.

evidence [music] found. Now, I don't. think this makes anyone believe the. story isn't true. I mean, like, the. thing's been underwater for almost a. year at this point. Like, I don't know. that you would still see a bloody crime. scene. So, unfortunately, without. anything to strengthen Jones' case, Burke has to like just focus on getting. justice for Marie. And Lenny's trial for. her murder begins on July 9th, 1984. By. then, Burke had secured another inmate. who says that Lenny confessed to them. And even though he doesn't have any. physical evidence, he argues that the.

similarities and consistencies [music]. between the two informants' statements, the two people who said that he. confessed to them, he says like because. they're so similar, it it makes them. more credible. So, did they end up not. doing anything with the vaginal smear. from her case? So, on the stand, the. lead detective says that the slide. wasn't refrigerated. And when the. bodysuit was tested, there was no like. seminal residue on that. So, that was. all [music] a bust. Wait, did they ever. test her fingernails then? Cuz isn't.

that what Lenny told Bond he didn't want. them to do? No, they didn't, which for. me would have been like the first thing. They'd go straight to the fingernails. Yeah, but for some reason, they didn't. I don't know if they just like thought. they didn't need it or what, but they. don't test that. [music]. And maybe they were right, because on. July 21st, the jury comes back with a. verdict, and Lenny is found guilty of. second-degree murder in the death of. Marie Iannuzzi. He's also convicted of. assault with intent to rape and. sentenced to life in prison. And for.

Marie's family, there is relief, but it. is complicated because while there's a. conviction, they can't help walking away. feeling a little used [music] because. the way it all played out, they never. really felt like it was about Marie. They always felt like Marie's case was. just a way to get Joan justice. >> stepping stone. It wasn't justice for. Marie, it was justice to find Joan. justice. Like they they they they could. use this to put this guy away while they. look for the smoking gun in the case. that like really mattered to them all.

along. Now, ADA Burke told us that. Marie's trial focused on her case and he. avoided bringing Joan's case into that. trial beyond like the cross-examinations. involving Lenny's girlfriend or. whatever, but. >> But still, that's how Marie's sister. feels. And that's like a pretty yucky. feeling to walk away with. >> It is, right? And I don't know if it's. the trial she's just talking about or. even the fact of like how the like the. fact that the case got taken on it all, but I agree like that was their. experience walking away and that's a. terrible feeling [music] and. complicated. Like would her sister do.

anything differently? No, probably not. because Marie had long been forgotten. like altogether before this, but it. still sucks. And at the end of this, it's not really like they got Joan total. justice because Joan's family is kind of. in limbo and no amount of media coverage. or attention from the prosecutor's. office is changing things. They're. basically told that until we have a. body, we have nothing. So, that is the. thing they have to hope for now, but. everyone knows that chances are slim. I. mean, per the confession, Joan is like.

out at sea somewhere and the reality is. they may never be able to properly lay. her to rest. And I don't know if that. reality gets harder or easier to accept. as time goes on, but I imagine either. way their world gets flipped upside down. when Joan is found in April of 1990 and. not in deep waters or washed up ashore. Where she's found calls into question. the entire confession that their theory.

has hinged on for the last eight years. Joan's remains end up being found by a. woman walking her dog in Hamilton, Massachusetts. [music] Now, she. initially spotted what she thought was. this deflated volleyball in a drainage. ditch, but it was a human skull. And after an extensive search by police, they end up locating more bones and a.

shallow grave buried beneath a pile of. logs. Dental records are what confirmed. that it is Joan that they found. [music]. And it's so weird because there were at. least two layers of logs and debris that. were laid on top of her body at two. different times. >> Which means someone's been like coming. back and checking on things. Making sure. that she stayed hidden. Now, the. glaringly obvious thing here is that. Joan, in fact, had not been dumped in. the ocean off a boat like Robert Bond.

said Lenny confessed to. But, I will say. there is a large fracture on the right. side of her skull. Which does match what. Bond said. >> Right. Was that a lucky guess? Was Bond. lying? Did Lenny lie to Bond? I don't. know. What I think is so interesting is. [music] the area where she's found and. what that could tell us. Hamilton is about an hour northeast of. Logan Airport. The marsh area where her. purse and wallet were found is like in.

that general direction. >> Oh. So, it could make sense that someone. dumped those things as they were driving. to Hamilton. And someone, Lenny or. otherwise, clearly had this Hamilton, this like specific place in mind because. where she was found was this quiet rural. road that winds through the woods. I. mean there were houses, but it's like. the kind of road that locals use because. they live there or because someone knows. it well enough to feel okay stopping. there without being seen. Like enough.

time. >> this. You have to go out of your way to. find it. >> cuz you cuz you also know that you can. have time to like dig a shallow grave, right? Come back and like and nobody's. going to spot you. Like you're not going. to be seen. But. here's what's really odd. We found. [music] out that there was a massive. fire in the area around the marshes that. caused roadblocks and evacuations on the. night that Joan went missing. So like. [music] even getting to that place would. not have been an easy path. I mean it. clearly didn't stop someone though. No,

but I think my question is like. was that someone really Lenny? The. location of Joan's body doesn't seem to. change much for investigators though. Like or for 88 Burke. I mean it changes. his plan probably. Like he can't take. this to trial because the only thing he. had to go on were the stories from these. jailhouse informants. >> Which don't match. >> No, but like oh well. In his mind the. case is already closed. Now they've at. least found her. I mean truthfully. people probably could have seen this.

coming because he seemed to be. disregarding anything he considered bad. facts along the line. Bad facts being. those things that didn't fit his like. Lenny did it theory. I mean at one point. it's realized that the night Joan went. missing was super stormy by like the. harbor. Like there's no way anyone could. have gone out on a boat that night. [music] And Burke had to even publicly. admit that. Also, plot twist, Lenny. didn't even have his boat when Joan went. missing. What do you mean he didn't have his. boat?

>> And this is what I'm saying like before. So they were like disregarding the stuff. before Joan's even found. He told. investigators this early on. He said. that the rudder was broken and it had. sank. He even filed an an claim like he. was known to do for it. And court. records for a federal bankruptcy trial. show that the judge in the case believed. that the boat was sunk by August of. 1981. This is months before Joan went. missing. But like was it actually. though? Because insurance claims on cars. and boats and things like that was kind. of his his racket with Candy, right?

>> Yeah, but when they recovered his boat. like it it the story lined up. The. rudder was broken just like he said and. it was found right where he said it. would be. And either way we know nothing. is actually found on the boat. Like it's. [music]. >> No. Like finding the boat is like okay. cool. >> It doesn't even matter because now. everyone agrees that he didn't kill her. on the boat. So they say like oh so. sorry we got that part wrong, but. everything else is still right. Okay, what is everything else though? No one. can really say for sure, but Burt. continues to publicly insist that Lenny.

is responsible for Joan's murder even. though he's never been charged. Honestly, this insistence might help. explain why the suspect sketch in Joan's. case never became more publicly tied to. the case. I mean it doesn't explain to. me like the first month or so. >> Wait like like the initials like. searches and interviews and stuff. >> after they lock in on Lenny it feels. like they just like write this guy off. completely because it like it doesn't. look like Lenny, right? Sketch is a. white guy curly hair, beard, 5'7", he.

was in his 40s. Lenny is 6'2", he's. heavy set, didn't have curly hair, didn't wear glasses. Like dude's a hard. guy to miss. He could have been the. other cab driver though. Maybe, but even. that gets a little murky when you dig. in. So the tipster who called and had. that bad experience with Lenny told us. that she heard word on the street was. that he was driving that unlicensed cab, right? We couldn't find any evidence of. that. When he picked up the hitchhiker. that he assaulted, he didn't introduce. himself as a cab driver. And in Bond's.

statements, he never claims that Lenny. drove a cab either. Wait, then what's. the story of how he got Joan in his car? >> Just that Lenny picked her up at the. airport. But like he doesn't. specifically say like he was driving a. cab or pretended to be a cab driver or. whatever. As far as I can tell, he. didn't really give other specifics. around that. And like it is a big. question for me, too. Like well, how. would Lenny get her in the car? But I. don't think anyone was pressing him for. those details. So, I don't [laughter]. know. Okay, so say Lenny was doing this. like unmarked cab thing.

>> Mhm. There's something that I just I. cannot make sense of. Her luggage. Like. if he's pretending to be a cab driver, I. don't think he convinces her to. Check her luggage or like gets out and. does it and leaves her in the car. Like. instant red flag. >> It would have been. And like here's I. mean we know whoever checked it didn't. do it right away, right? Like it. happened the next day at 10:30 a.m. So, theoretically, like one scenario could. be like someone picks up Joan, they kill. her either in Hamilton or then they take.

her thereafter. And whether she's. already buried or not, her luggage is. driven back. Like back south to downtown. Boston and then left at the station. Or. Joan is still alive at 10:30 and she did. it for some unknown inexplicable reason. And if that's the case, then she's not. with Lenny. Like she had zero ties to. this man. He would have been a stranger. to her. So, I I really believe someone. else did it. And the more I think about. [music] it, I keep coming back to I. think whoever did it wanted it to be. found, but maybe not to play with.

people. Maybe they wanted it to look. like Joan. was got like caught a bus somewhere. Like think about it. Like earlier I said. that her wallet could have easily been. tossed on the way to Hamilton. But what. if it was on the way back? Say Joan's. killed in Hamilton, just like ditch her. stuff, right? Why drive all the way. back? And if you're going to, why not. put all her stuff together? They. separate the purse and the wallet from. the luggage because that kind of makes. it look like she took those things with.

her. And why would you need to make it. look like she took off if you have zero. ties to her? If you knew her. Especially if you were. last seen with her. Wait, didn't you say. they got fingerprints from her suitcase? Like do we know whose those are? Oh, so. here's another thing. Those are not. Lenny's. They tested him against those. right away in 1982. Not a match. I don't. know if they've ever been entered into a. modern database. We would have loved to.

ask but the Essex County District. Attorney's office didn't respond [music]. to our requests for comment. But I know. they tested them against at least one. other person over the years. But whoever. that was, that wasn't a match either. I. mean, I say start there, right? Like it. it seems like it could be pretty. freaking important. Could be. I mean. like at the same time it also came from. an airport where it's being handled by. other people. A stranger could have. touched it thinking it was their bag. Like it might not be the thing. >> even like someone put it in the locker.

but then someone had to take it out of. the locker, put [snorts] it into storage. and they were sorting it in like in. storage to put into further storage. >> where I'm like, I pray to God they like. checked the people who worked at the. Greyhound bus or whatever. But like I. don't know. Like yes, it might not be. connected but like that sure feels like. something. >> Yeah, it feels like something you want. to like know or rule out. Did they get. anything usable when they found her. remains? Like was there anything other. than her remains with her? >> By that point, it had been so long. I. don't think they got much. I mean, I. know there were like a few hairs found. at the scene but like I mean, those may.

have been Jones. We couldn't confirm if. those have ever even been tested. I. mean, it was 1990 when she was found and. they had a suspect. >> So they didn't compare the hair to Lenny. even? Oh, no, they did that. It wasn't. his. That's why like. >> That's where the answer is like who. knows? Probably Jones. >> Yeah. So. It's like giving tunnel vision for me. Like I assume no one's racing to exhume. her to see if there is anything else. they could use. There is not even an. option to do that because after Joan's.

body was found, her family quietly and. quickly cremated her. Which actually, technically, is illegal. I was actually. about to say that. Like, cuz the case is. open. >> Yeah, it's technically still open. And. according to Massachusetts law, you. can't cremate a body that's part of an. open investigation. And I listen, I. don't say that to insinuate anything. shady. They had been grieving her loss. for a very long time. Like, they. probably didn't even know that. But, it. seems like something the investigator. who was working her case should have. known. But, I think they were so set on.

their theory that like when they're. like, "We're going to have her cremate.". Nobody stopped them. Does Joan's family. believe that it was Lenny? Well, we. couldn't talk to any of her immediate. family. So, her parents have passed and. we reached out to her siblings, but they. haven't gotten back to us. But, we did. talk to Joan's former sister-in-law, Eve. So, she was married to Joan's. brother back in 1981 when Joan went. missing and they were still married when. she was found in 1990. According to her, Joan's parents and brother kept telling. the same story. Lenny killed [music].

Joan. But, that's a story that she never. really believed. I mean, so much so it's. part of what caused a rift with her and. her husband. And they've since [music]. divorced and she's like made it her. life's mission to get people asking. questions about Joan's case again. And. she's been doing her own investigation. Even hired a PI to help her pull records. and interview witnesses and review trial. transcripts. And she sees a lot of the. tunnel vision I think that we do. And. she validates the way that Marie's.

family feels. That her case was a lot. about Joan. Like, apparently, they even. did a search of Candy's place. [music]. Again, Candy's related to Marie's case, but the items that investigators hoped. to find were ones tied to Joan. So, what's Eve's stance on Marie's case? Does she think Lenny did one but not the. other or. >> Well, she feels like both investigations. left loose ends, albeit a lot more in. Jones. But even in Marie's case, she. still has questions, mostly about David,

the boyfriend. And I wish I could tell. you a lot about the conversations police. had with him. I should be able to. because they did over 20 interviews with. the guy. >> Oh. But when the lead detective took the. stand in Lenny's trial, he admitted that. he didn't take any reports on any of. those 20 interviews. What? But I bet. they were illuminating because he was. just acting straight-up. odd after her murder. Like on Monday.

morning, shortly after Marie's body was. identified, family members went to. David's house to pick up a dress for the. wake. And according to court documents, they found Marie's belongings all packed. up, and what they believed was blood on. the stairs. Now, ADA Burke told us that. he doesn't believe that David's home was. processed at the start, but he says once. he learned about the staircase that he. had a lead detective inspect it, and. they determined that it was paint, not. blood. But Marie's family also testified. in front of the grand jury that they.

noticed scratches on David's hands. And. the explanation for the scratches kept. changing over time. Like first, he said. it was a cat, and then it was like work, and then it was a car accident, then a. bar fight. And we're not talking like. small marks. These were like deep. gouges, and Marie had long fingernails. Now, as far as we know, just like Jones'. family, Marie's family believes that. Lenny was her killer. Still, one family. member remembered something else that. stuck out with them. On the drive to.

Marie's wake, David asked if he should. start dating again. What timing. And. when he got there, Marie's family member. claimed that David threw a joint into. Marie's coffin, which like just felt out. of place to them. Now, David said in his. grand jury testimony that he struggled. with substance use, though. So, that. might explain some of this behavior, but. it doesn't make it any easier to. understand for Marie's family. And then, there's what happened just before. Marie's funeral. David never showed up.

to the funeral because he had flown to. New Jersey under Marie's stepbrother's. name, and he ended up getting arrested. in Newark Airport for stealing luggage. What? It's weird, right? Like yes, but I. don't even know what to like make of it. >> Like what does it even I don't know. It. only stands out in my mind because of. Joan's case. But, if you divorce the two, like what. the hell was he doing? Yeah, like I'm.

trying to even come up with something. that makes sense if you don't divorce. the two. Like it still doesn't really. work for No. Joan's case. >> No, it doesn't really make sense. >> And if he didn't have any connection to. Joan, the only thing tying them together. was Lenny. Well, so here's the thing. So, he didn't know Joan personally, but. guess what a local newspaper reported. David worked as a shuttle bus driver at. Logan Airport. So, he has a connection. to the airport. Yeah, a loose.

connection. But, to me, about as loose. as the idea that Lenny just like swung. by the airport and picked Joan up. >> Right. Does he look like the sketch? So, not to me. That's a good point. So, he's. in his 20s at the time. Which is younger. than like. >> Yeah, the 40-year-old guy they saw her. with. And listen, I know that they. looked at David for Joan's case at least. a little bit, but investigators say that. he was ruled out. They just don't say. how he was ruled out. And I need to say. David did have an alibi for Marie's. murder. He lived with his mom, who told.

police that he came home from the. reception without Marie around 4:30 p.m. He went out briefly that evening, was. back by 9:00. The issue all these years. later is we spoke with wedding guests. who remembered David returning to the. party later that night. And no one ever. placed David inside the bar where Marie. was last seen, but his house was only a. few blocks away. You know, if you were. just going to like walk over and be. right back in 30 minutes? Totally doable.

Could have been who she called from the. bar to see if she he was home. >> Would have been nice to know, but those. records were never pulled or not in the. files that we have today. But I didn't. see anywhere where David admits to. getting a call from Marie. He said that. he didn't think he was going to see her. that night at all because Marie told him. that she was going to go like stay at. her parents. But apparently she told her. parents that she was going to stay at. David's. But at the end of the day, she's still last seen leaving with. Lenny, who was already a bad dude before.

this. For sure. Her friend last saw her. leaving with Lenny. But apparently one. of the bar owners told police that he. remembered Marie being there like near. closing time at around 1:45 in the. morning. Then another person we spoke to. who was at the bar that night remembered. that last call was around 1:25 and Marie. was still there. And he doesn't remember. seeing Lenny at that time. And if Lenny. and Candy were telling the truth, that. might make sense. So,

if she maybe came back after leaving. with him, then really all investigators. have is jailhouse confessions and the. fact that Lenny knew the Marsha's. And. like jailhouse confessions by the way, that like don't always add up. Yeah, and. by the way, turns out you could say the. same thing about David. One man told. police and later testified that David. confessed to killing Marie at some party. in 1981, saying that Marie was seeing. someone else and he, quote, did what he.

had to do. And that same witness also. claimed that David tried to kill him. twice after he went to police. And it. turns out that those marshes where she's. found is near a trash dump site, like. this local landfill. And David worked in. garbage collection at the time. ADA. Burke told us that he asked the lead. detective to follow up on the allegation. that David confessed, and [music] that. witness was determined not to be. credible.

But I have real concerns when I look at. the documents in Lenny's case. Because. after his conviction, there are a series. of sworn affidavits submitted alleging. that witnesses who testified in front of. the grand jury were pressured to change. or soften their testimony about David. before the trial and even threatened. with arrest or losing custody of their. children. So like this idea of like, oh, I put both of them in front of the grand. jury and the grand jury is who chose. Lenny.

Was it? >> Based on the testimony of. coerced people. >> Yeah, and listen, Lenny's defense lawyer. told us that he could imagine pressuring. or at least like them changing. witnesses' minds. Like telling them that. like. >> want to do the right thing? >> don't you want to get like a bad guy off. the streets? ADA Burke told us that the. safeguard against witness intimidation. at the time was the court. He said that. any witness who felt pressured could. just like bring it to a judge. >> Oh, okay. But I ask, could they really?

Like I get it, on paper, yes, but in. practice? >> Yeah. Cuz according to an investigation. by the New England Center for. Investigative Reporting, in the years. surrounding Lenny's prosecution, Massachusetts prosecutors were. repeatedly found by the state's. appellate and supreme court to have. violated defendants' rights to a fair. trial. Judges overturned at least 120. convictions since the mid-1980s in part. or entirely because of prosecutorial. misconduct. Things like withholding.

evidence, >> [music]. >> failing to disclose information that. could undermine witness credibility, or. misrepresenting evidence to juries, which makes you call into question even. those supposed confessions. Those. [music] two informants may have had. something to gain. Like when it comes to. Robert Bond, in one sworn statement, another inmate says that he personally. saw Bond with Lenny's court papers, copying information into a yellow legal. pads. And then after that, the inmate.

says that Bond started talking openly. about how police were trying to tie. Lenny to the Marie Iannuzzi murder and. Joan Webster's disappearance. And that. he planned to write the district. attorney claiming that Lenny confessed. He says that Bond talked about money, talked about legal help, and getting his. own case overturned, and even asked this. guy to like go along with the story, but. the inmate said no. And then there's a. whole another story from a different. inmate that's like very similar to that. one. The other guy who snitched on Lenny. had an even fishier story. Like I won't.

bog you down with all the details, but. basically the inmate helped a lawyer. with some like legal work, and the. lawyer that he worked for represented. Lenny. And court records and that. inmate's sworn affidavit show that after. he cooperated with prosecutors, including testifying against Lenny, he. was allowed to plead to a lesser charge. in his own murder case, and he was. released after about 14 years, even. though he originally faced a life. sentence. None of that context was.

shared with the jury at Lenny's trial. So, does Lenny have a lawyer fighting. all of this? He did for many years, but. it didn't get anywhere. And in 2008, Lenny died in a prison hospital, maintaining his innocence. You know, he. had a daughter, and she told us that she. knows her dad hurt women. Like that's. not like up for discussion. She doesn't. excuse that. But what she does push back.

on is the idea that he committed these. murders. And she says that once police. zeroed in on her dad, their minds were. made up. In the months after Lenny's. arrest, she told us that she was. followed and questioned by undercover. officers. She was approached at Logan. Airport and then later at her workplace. And they were pressing her to say that. she knew something about her dad. And. she said it got so overwhelming. she left the state for more than a year. just to like get away from [music] it. But it seems to her like it is just her.

and Eve who believe that Lenny didn't. get a fair shake. To them, the rest of. the world seems satisfied that the right. man was put behind bars. ADA Burke actually published a book. expanding [music] on the case that he. won at trial. And in it, he claims that. Lenny wasn't just responsible for Marie. and Jones' murders. He suggests that. Lenny was a serial killer who committed. more murders than he was [music] ever. charged with. And listen, in a.

courtroom, a prosecutor is bound by. rules. Like there's the standard of. proof. Outside of court, those standards. don't really exist the same way, especially when you're talking about a. convicted murderer. About 20 years. earlier, Lenny tried to sue Burke for. libel in connection with an article he. published calling him a suspect in. Jones' murder. But Lenny lost. Not. because the claims were proven true, but. because the court ruled that Lenny. didn't have any reputation left to. protect. Now listen,

I don't know if Lenny was innocent, but. I do see real problems with his trial. and the investigation, especially the. investigation into Jones' case, which. got no trial. >> So, if not Lenny, then who? I don't have. an answer to that. I can tell you where. I would start looking if like I had the. badge, though. First of all, I'm not. convinced these cases are connected. So, first things first, I would treat them. as two distinctly separate cases. In.

Marie's case, I would want to know a lot. more about David. I would want to know. if Marie really was seeing someone else. I would want to know who did she call. from the bar that night? For Joan's. case, I would be looking close to. Harvard. Someone she knew. That area. where her body was found, where someone. visited to make sure that her remains. would stay buried. Like you had to know. it. And guess what we found out? The. area where Joan was found was actually.

close to Harvard-owned property. And the. woman who found Joan's skull was married. to a man [music]. who had connections to Cambridge. I'm. sorry. That seems super relevant here. Yeah. Now, according to Eve, that guy. was cleared. But like. knowing how hard they focused on Lenny, I'm like, you know, let me just like. >> mean? >> Yeah. Let me just see who this guy is. and if he's done anything wild or.

committed any crimes in the last 50. years, you know? This is like I usually. do this in a lot of our cases. I'm like. I just like do background checks on like. the people involved. >> yeah. You'll get surprised. So like I. was fully ready to go down a rabbit hole. on this one. >> are. But this is where it got stranger. for me. So the man who lived near the property. owned by Harvard was this guy named Dr. Jonah Turken. He was a social sciences. professor at a college in Maryland in. the 70s, even ran for mayor of the.

college town at some point before he. resigned without really any statement or. explanation in 1974. By the time Joan. was at Harvard in 1981, he was working. there as an administrator, not in Joan's. school and no connection between them as. far as we know. But this is what's so. weird. There is like. nothing. on this guy online. I mean, not nothing. Like I found a book written by him that. only existed on eBay. So like I bought.

it. It just came in. I haven't even got. to read it yet. We'll report back. And. there were like a couple of old. newspaper articles about his early. career. Like a few blips in 1978, maybe. one thing I found in '86, like some. property sale if it's the same guy in. Florida. But then this dude just does. not exist. And I'm not just talking. about on Google. When we searched databases, this guy. does not come up, which I hardly. ever see. Now, maybe he went off the.

grid, he and his wife, cuz by the way, I. couldn't find anything for her, either. And I think this is extra weird because. like there were in in the few articles. I've seen about him, it talks about how. he has like all these academic. accolades, these multiple degrees, that. he was, you know, wrote that book, he. was like publishing a paper that people. were talking about. And then just like. poo, nothing. And so I like I had this. weird, probably wrong idea. But listen, call me crazy, but it's 2026.

in a world where we still aren't getting. everything in the Epstein files, and. there have been zero arrests, and I. trust the government about zero percent. Here are the things I know, and the. things that I find strange. when you put them all in one pile. Yes, yeah. Jones family had confirmed ties to. the CIA. Mhm. It is pretty well documented that during. the Cold War and into the 1970s and. '80s, the CIA recruited on college. campuses through academic departments,

through research programs, and. administrative roles. And to me, it's like when you dig into. this case, Jones case, you keep just. like running up against dead ends, just. like missing records, unanswered. questions, and entire chapters of. people's lives that just. stop. Like Jonas. And that kind of. murkiness makes it harder, not easier, to ever be certain. about what really happened. Now, even.

though he was in his late 30s when Joan. went missing, I don't know that Jonas. looked much like our sketch. Based on at. least like the two pictures I could find. of this guy online, which notably are. from years before. >> Not from like around the time. >> Yeah. Joan was murdered. Yeah. And. again, to be extra clear, police later. told a private investigator that Eve. hired that this guy was ruled out as a. suspect in Joan's case. But like Jonas,

Jonas' family, if you are out there, like send me a smoke signal. Like let me. know you're real. Let me know you're. alive. I would love to talk to you about. who else was on that like property, knew. that property by where you lived. Like. who would come and go? I have all of the. questions. So, Joan Webster's murder is still. unsolved and open. Marie Iannuzzi's case. is considered closed. And the man. convicted of her murder has passed away.

Is that the truth of what happened to. her? Maybe. But I don't know because of. how both cases were handled. Joan and. Marie both deserve investigations based. on evidence, not assumptions. So, my. question isn't just who killed Joan and. Marie, it's why didn't anyone want the. truth? But I think someone out there. knows what happened. Maybe the man who. drove that blue taxi that Joan got into. Or maybe it was someone who was at the. bar the night Marie was last seen alive. Just because this episode ends, doesn't. mean we stop. We never stop. Like you.

know that. So, if there's anyone out there who might. have any bit of information to share. about the cases of Joan Webster or Marie. Iannuzzi, email us tips@audiochuck.com. [music]. You can find all the source material for. this episode on our website. crimejunkie.com. And you can follow us on Instagram at. crimejunkiepodcast. [music]. And we'll be back next week with a brand. new episode.