Could the Masked Intruder of Melbourne Still Be Out There?

Hi Crime Junkies, I'm your host Ashley. Flowers. >> And I'm Britt. >> And our story today begins with a little. girl. alone in a closet counting to 100. I'm going to call her Eliza because her. identity has never been released, but in. 1987, >> [music]. >> a masked man broke into her home while. her whole family slept. What happened to her over the next two. or so hours was unthinkable, especially in the place that she was. supposed to feel the [music] safest. But.

at least he left her there, told her to. count to 100 before she moved or went. looking for her parents. So she did. 1. 2. 3. Other girls wouldn't be so lucky. The little Eliza wouldn't have called. herself lucky as she sat there counting. cuz she had no idea that the man who. attacked her would go on to earn the. name. Mr. Cruel. A soon-to-be murderer that would prey on.

young girls in Melbourne, [music]. Australia for years to come and elude. police for even longer. She probably couldn't even comprehend. that. She just had to keep counting. 31. 32 33. 34. 96 97. >> [music]. >> 98 99 100 When Eliza reaches 100, she. unties her restraints and runs into her.

parents' bedroom praying every step of. the way that her parents and her little. brother are okay. And by some miracle, they are. Her brother is blindfolded, gagged, and tied to part of the bed. while her parents are found the [music]. same way but locked in a closet. together, much like she had been. But. the man who put them there didn't do the. same things [music] to them as he did to. Eliza, things that she didn't even utter. until the police showed up. They came as. soon as they got the call from dad at. 6:00 a.m. By then, the intruder was long.

gone after spending roughly 2 hours in. their home. And Dad told police that he. was woken up at 4:00 a.m. to a man in a. balaclava standing over him and his wife. in bed. The guy had a knife and a gun. and forced them to turn over so he could. restrain them. And then, he went and got. the two kids. Sources conflict a little, but Eliza is either 11 or 12 years old. at the time, and her brother is between. 6 and 8. But the intruder took measures. to ensure that everyone couldn't see or. scream or run. Like I said, he locked.

the parents in the closet, tied the. little boy to the bed, and then he took. Eliza with him out of the room. So, Eliza is the only one who can say. what happened [music] next. The most. detailed account of this is published by. Keith Moore with the Herald Sun many. years later. Eliza said the man covered. her mouth and eyes with tape, took her. into the bathroom, >> [music]. >> and switched on the radio to station. 3KZ. And he turned the volume way up to drown. out the noise of him assaulting her. When he finished, he made her take a. bath and brush her teeth.

So, she cleans herself up. Then he drags. Eliza to the kitchen so he can get a. snack and eat from the fridge. [music]. And when he's finished with that, he. brings her to a room that they call the. lounge and assaults her again. After this second assault, he leaves to. go check on her parents and her brother, presumably to make sure that they hadn't. [music] gotten free. And then he moved. Eliza to another room and bound her feet. with nylon rope. He said the attack was. over, that he was going to leave, but he. wanted her to count to 100 before she. untied the ties on her feet and freed.

her parents. So, that's when she began. >> [music]. >> counting. Now, a crime like this could. not have been more shocking to this. family. They live in a nice little town. [music] on a nice little street in the. area of Lower Plenty, which is known for. its big houses and leafy sidewalks. The. people who live here are largely. affluent families just raising kids. Basically, this is the kind of. neighborhood where very little crime. happens. And this family was presumably. as unassuming as they [music] come. Like.

I said, their identities have never been. revealed, but based on the ensuing. investigation, this is a family that. doesn't have enemies or any reason to. have a target on their back. And clearly. not for something like this. I mean, while the guy made off with a few things. from the house, [music] it seems clear. that he was there for Eliza. And they. couldn't think of a single person who. would their young daughter. >> So, you said some things were taken. What all did he take? >> He took some of her dad's clothes, like. a shirt, parka, pants, even a razor of.

his. And he also took an engagement. ring, this one that was gold with a. single diamond that had the numbers 4132. stamped inside. I mean, and that was. worth, you know, a good chunk, about. $2,500 back in 1987. And he also snagged about $250 in cash. And as far as I know, none of those. things have ever [music] been recovered. And that ring in particular, I mean, I. wonder if someone might recognize it. I. I wish I knew more about the diamond. shape or the size. I just know that the.

diamond was held to the band with like. four like little gold prongs. [music]. Now, what he took doesn't tell them. much, but what he did might. Because the. family shares some of the strange things. [music] that he did while he was in the. house for those two hours. Like at some. point before he took Eliza into the. bathroom, the man apparently made a. phone call from the landline in her. parents' room. It sounded like this. intruder was threatening someone on the. phone. But, this is the really strange part.

When police tried to look into this, because this would be an amazing clue to. try and track who he was or who he. knows, >> Who he was calling, yeah. >> there was no call. He was. >> [music]. >> faking it. >> So, what's the point of that? Like, is it. just like a red herring just to throw. people off? don't know, either that or. he's like messing with the family, trying to seem more threatening, which. like mission accomplished. I so I don't. know. >> The other clue that they give [music]. I think is much more telling. Even.

though this man made a point to. blindfold everyone in the family, they. were able to get a good look at him. before, or rather his disguise. The. composite sketch that's released of him. a week later in an article by Greg. Burchell shows a white guy. They say. maybe 5'9, average build, wearing a. balaclava with his eyes in the picture. they look scratched out because. apparently even though he had this, which like would leave part of his face. open, >> Mhm. >> he had some kind of fabric that actually. covered his eyes. I mean clearly he.

could see, but they couldn't see his. eyes. Now in the black and white. newspaper photo, you can also see a. small [music] tuft of dark hair like. sticking out the top. But in later. reporting by Keith Moore, he says that. this hair was described as grayish white. with white spots, maybe dandruff, and. that this guy had grayish white eyebrows. to match. But before you go thinking. this is maybe like an older man, they. were clear that this guy was actually. younger, maybe in his 20s. Now nothing. was super standout about his clothes,

but they say that his breath smelled. bad. Musty was the word that they used. His gloves were rubber and he came with. his own materials, handcuffs, tape, blindfold, robe, weapons, all of it. So police took this sketch out pretty. quickly asking for the public's help to. locate this guy. And from the jump, they. began wondering if this man could. possibly be connected to other attacks. because as Jim Tennyson reported, police. were describing him as {quote} super. cool and super cruel.

And it's here, like if this is seems. like from then on that name sticks, Mr. Cruel. Even when they rule out. connections to some of the other cases. But just because like he has a name, and. just because they're talking about this. case, Mr. Cruel wasn't a household name. yet. So, nearly a year and a half later, just after Christmas, when a man breaks. into a Ringwood home and goes looking. for another young girl, it is unlikely.

that she or her family knew that they. were dealing with Mr. Cruel. In that. case, his target is a 10-year-old girl. named Sharon Wills. Mr. Cruel, whoever. he is, was clearly watching and stalking. her family's home because the family. didn't get home till late that night. And by the time mom and dad got the kids. in bed, laid down themselves, it was. like 1:00 a.m. But, dad couldn't sleep, so he gets up again. He was like doing a. puzzle, didn't come back to bed till.

like 4:50 in the morning. And 30 minutes. after the lights went out is when he's. woken up by the sound of his bedroom. door just bursting open. So, he was like. clearly watching, right? Waiting for. that moment. And even how this guy got. into the house, it's like he knew. because there was apparently a key that. they would leave in the lock, like on. the inside of one of the doors. So, what. this guy did is he put a newspaper under. the door, stuck something in the lock to.

like push the key out, and then when. [music] it fell onto the paper, he just. slid it under the door and unlocked. [music] it, which is terrifying. So, like again, how would he know that it. was there unless he'd been watching them. is the thinking. Now, he got the parents. to initially comply by holding a gun to. dad's head and telling him he just. wanted money, saying, "You're not going. to be a hero, are you?" And then he tied. them up with copper wire and takes. something like 35 bucks. But again, obviously that is not all he. wants because he quickly moves on to the.

next bedroom where four girls are all. sleeping in bunk beds. Now, it only. takes Sharon's dad about 15 minutes to. free himself and his wife from the. restraints, at which point he runs into. their daughter's room only to find three. girls, not four. Sharon and some of her. clothing are missing. Now, you know this, when a kid goes. missing, the prospect of them returning. is grim. So, police start mobilizing to. do whatever they can to find her, but.

they actually don't have to do much. because against all odds, 18 hours. later, Sharon reappears wandering around. near a high school not too far away from. her home. And her return is more than. just good news for her and her family. If this case is connected to Eliza's, Sharon might be their best chance at. getting this guy. I mean, she spent the. most time with him, went somewhere with. him. What did she see and smell and. hear? Like any little detail could be.

critical. And the first detail that she. can give them. >> [music]. >> is a crucial one. It was what she heard when the man woke. her up from sleep. >> In the parks and forests you love, there. are stories waiting to be told. I'm. Dilia D'Ambra, the host of Park. Predators, a true crime podcast that. reminds you sometimes the most beautiful. places hide the darkest secrets. Listen. now wherever you get your podcasts.

>> Sharon tells police that she pretended. to be asleep when she heard her parents. scream. [music] And when a dark figure. came into her room and put a flashlight. in her face. She kept pretending to. sleep when he left and then came back. calling for her by name. >> So, he was targeting and targeting. Sharon specifically. >> And there is a theory about how he might. have known her name. So, just six months. earlier, Sharon's house had caught fire.

and there was a newspaper article where. her mom was interviewed talking about. how she was able to rescue her four. girls. Then she called the fire. department. They were able to put it. out. No one got hurt. Like, great piece. But that article was accompanied by a. photograph of the mom and her daughters. with the captions of their names. And. there's Sharon. This adorable. 10-year-old girl wearing big glasses. [music] and a polka-dot skirt. And in. fact, there is a theory that the first. girl, Eliza, who we're calling her from. Lower Plenty. They think she might have.

been targeted from a newspaper article. as well. Because apparently she, too, had her photo in the paper a few days. before the attack happened on her. So. this guy clearly [music] targeted. Sharon. What does she remember about where he. took her? So she remembers a decent. amount. Like, as she was taking her out. of the house, apparently he grabbed some. of her clothes from her room and wrapped. them in this big T-shirt that he found. in another room. And then on the way out. of the house, he grabbed one of her. dad's coats to put over her cuz she was. just wearing her her pajamas like a.

nightgown. Now, she said she tried. screaming, but he put a rubber ball in. her mouth and only took it out when she. promised that she wouldn't make any more. noise. That's when he blindfolded her. and carried her out of the house and a. ways away to like a car that he had. waiting. And she actually remembers a. ton of detail about the car that he put. her in. She was on the floor of the. passenger side and she could tell that. there were bucket seats in the front and. some kind of like hump in the middle. where like the gearshift was. And she.

said it seemed like kind of an old car. I think based on like the sound of it or. whatever. And when she was able to see. around her blindfold, she said that the. floor was all cream-colored carpet. Now, she knows that this man drove her for a. bit before they arrived somewhere. It. seemed like a house, maybe, because. there was a driveway and it was quiet. But she says Mr. Cruel then carried her. inside. [music] Now, she couldn't see. anything by the time he's carrying her. because at some point during the car. ride he realized that she could like see.

out of it and so he had put like more. blindfolds or tape or pads or whatever. like changed it so she couldn't see. anything. But after being brought in and. after she was assaulted at some point. she did get a peek of the bedroom where. for most of the time she was kept. leashed to a bed. Apparently Mr. Cruel. had left her alone at one point and so. she moved the coverings on her eyes to. get a look at where she was and she saw. that she was being held in this small. bedroom [music]. with I mean I would say little. furniture. There was the double bed that.

she was on that had a peach colored. headboard or bedhead as it was called in. Australia. There were two nightstands. One of them had a lamp on it. The lamp. had a peach base and then a yellow. lampshade that had like white stripes on. it. And the only window in the room was. covered with like floor length peach. curtains. And there was also some kind. of like dresser cabinet bookcase thing. that was like on the other side like. across from the bed. But there was this. big dark blanket that was over it. So. she didn't know exactly what it was. It.

was just like the general shape of like. that, you know, dresser kind of thing. >> Yeah, and like when furniture is covered. I think of like moving or storage or. painting. But like that doesn't seem. like the case here. >> I know. I read somewhere that one of the. things they theorized that that maybe it. had something really distinctive like. something on it that. >> Everything was like really recognizable. and identifiable. >> Right. Something that you would want to. cover that if someone saw could like. bring them back to you really easy. Again, I don't know if it's I wouldn't. think it's something on top of it cuz. you can just like clear that off.

>> But like if it's on the front panel or. something or the color or the shape. >> Yeah, but it also might have to do with. something else that she mentioned. So. she said that she caught a glimpse of a. tripod that was possibly for filming. >> It's a terrifying thought. >> Yeah, so maybe I don't know this for a. fact. It seem It sounds like the tripod. would have been set up on the floor, but. it doesn't say that specifically, so. maybe like that area has to do with that. or something because like in the picture. that ends up getting drawn of this room,

the tripod isn't anywhere. So, I don't. know. But here's the thing, knowing that. that this tripod or whatever is in her. statement, that could mean that there is. proof out there if they can find this. guy. Or maybe the other way around, if. there is the video, maybe that video. could lead to him. >> And did he keep his mask on during the. entire attack? >> She doesn't know that. So, she got that. one quick glimpse at the room when he. was gone, but he had warned her that if. she took her covering off over her eyes.

and saw his face that he would have to. recapture her. So, she hadn't even. tried, not even as he fed her a snack, milk and a Vegemite sandwich, or when he. made her bathe and brush her teeth. >> Is all of this like. cleansing, cleaning up thing is it like. a DNA thing or. is it something else? >> This is the thing, everyone talks about. this like it was him being super aware. and removing DNA or trace evidence, and. I think that's part of it, but I think.

it's part of the ritual for him. Because. Sharon, what she describes is being made. to bathe like three separate times. And. then towards the end of this ordeal, this 18-hour ordeal, before releasing. her, he made her take a shower instead. of a bath, telling her to wash really. well. >> So, maybe the baths are like part of the. ritual or like fantasy room, yeah. And. the shower is more to. clear out evidence or like make sure.

there's nothing left behind. >> That's what I'm thinking. But like the interesting thing to me is. there's no mention anywhere in past. reporting that he made the first victim. shower. We know that he made her take a. bath, brush her teeth, but then he. assaults her again after that. And then. all we know is that after the second. assault he leaves the house. So this. makes me wonder a couple of things. Like. maybe he did make her take a shower and. for some reason like that was never. reported. We're not told that, right? Or. maybe like like he didn't because he's. like in her house and he ran out of.

time. >> Which could be why he took Sharon out of. her house and with him to like a second. location the next time. >> Exactly. Like was that the plan and he. knew he needed them to shower at the end. and like he couldn't carry out that. plan. Or the other possibility is that. maybe he got word somehow that after. Eliza's attack. >> he had to like escalate his process. >> maybe he heard that they got some kind. of evidence off of her. And again, we've. never heard about any evidence so it's. not something that's that's known. I. don't know. Like you know me, I can. spiral. So let's go I just want to go.

back to like what else she told them. because she had one more important. detail to give police. And I have to say. Sharon is probably one of the most. aware, intelligent 10-year-olds I have. ever come across. Because according to. Moore's reporting, she identified the. time that she was in his house using the. radio that he [music] left on. And so. she was able to tell them that during a. certain window of time she was hearing. planes [music]. overhead. >> That is incredible. I don't even know if.

I would like. >> Literally she's like do that. >> I know. It is like unbelievable. Now. when he's finally done with her, right? And she has showered, he dressed her in. a shirt that he had taken from her. house. And then basically placed her in. a garbage bag. Like drew it up to her. neck, fastened it, and then put one over. her head so she couldn't move or see. But he like gave her obviously like a. hole so to breathe. And he put her in. the back of his car, drives for what. Sharon described as a long time, and. then he finally stopped, got out,

carried her to the area where she was. eventually released near this like high. school and neighborhood. Now at this. point, both the Major Crime Squad and. the Rape Task Force at the Victoria. police are working to find out who. [snorts] did this to Sharon. >> [music]. >> And reporting at the time indicates that. they're definitely connecting this case. to the lower Plenty attack targeting the. girl that we called Eliza. But there was. nothing specifically saying that like. like Mr. Cruel was out there targeting. young girls in the community. So I don't.

think there was this like giant public. fear at the time until there is another. attack in 1990. >> [music]. >> And with the next girl, Mr. Cruel gets. even bolder. Mr. Cruel's next target is. a 13-year-old girl named Nicola Linus. who goes by Nikki. Now she lives in a. very fancy part of Melbourne called. Canterbury. Like this is where the high. net worth business people and. politicians live.

And on July 3rd, 1990, Mr. Cruel sneaks. into her home with his signature covered. face, a kitchen knife, and a handgun. With the tap of a knife, he wakes Nikki. up. Now whether he knows this beforehand. or not, I don't know. But Nikki's. parents are out that night. It's just. her and her 15-year-old sister Fiona at. home. And so he wakes Fiona up, too. Ties Fiona up with a wire and after. cutting the phone line, Mr. Cruel grabs. a set of car keys on a hook in the.

kitchen and then he tells Nikki to get. dressed. She puts on her school uniform. blazer over her pajamas and while she's. getting that on, he starts going through. her closet and drawers and taking more. items of her clothing and stuffing them. into a bag. [music] And then he forces. Nikki into her parents' car and drives. out through the driveway. Now not even. 15 minutes later, Nikki's parents arrive. home to find Fiona [music] tied up and. she had a message. She tells them that. the kidnapper says he wants $25,000.

for Nikki's return and they should. expect his call in the morning. Now. their dad immediately calls police who. arrive at the scene that night and they. wait up until daybreak for the. kidnapper's call, but that's a call that. never comes. >> Was there anything in the papers about. her, like the other girls? Like the. other girls had like articles with their. pictures and stuff? >> No, not that I'm aware of. And actually, like this family, they weren't even. permanent fixtures in the community. They were from England and their dad was.

there on a job assignment for the last. like 4 years or so. But they were like. just about to move back. Literally, like. all their stuff in the house was packed. up. That was going to be their last. night in the house before they went to. an apartment for a month and then back. to England. Now, that doesn't mean Mr. Cruel still couldn't have targeted her. though, like in some way. Now, over the. next 48 hours, police [music]. and media are swarming all over this. house. So, it doesn't take long for them.

to spot the family car. It's parked just. a few blocks away. Now, there's nothing. like a crime scene or anything in it, which is good news. So, the head of the. major crime squad goes to the media and. makes this public plea to the kidnapper. to contact them, but it's just radio. silence in return. Then, 50 hours after. she was taken, Nikki suddenly appears. >> 50 hours is. so much longer. Like he's keeping them. longer. >> Mhm. And the time that he releases her,

it's around 2:00 in the morning on what. was Nikki's 14th birthday. Now, she was. dropped near this like electrical. substation near a suburb called Kew. >> So, the ransom was all a ruse. >> Not real at all, right. And Nikki tells. investigators how on the night of her. kidnapping, she was blindfolded and then. driven to a different car that she was. then transferred into. And this is. probably like him driving her parents'. car to one that he had waiting. And once.

she's in that one, the man drove about. 45 minutes to where she was eventually. kept. Now, much of her experience was. identical to Sharon's, being leashed to. the bed, the multiple assaults, and. being forced to bathe and brush her. teeth. According to Keith Morrison's. reporting, he had her bathe as soon as. she arrived and insisted that it was so. there would be no physical evidence. left. But, he did this even before. assaulting her. So, like that part makes. no sense to me. >> unless he's so savvy that he doesn't. want anything from her being left in.

that room, like in addition to something. of him being left on her. >> Well, that's an interesting thought. Like like like she could leave like hair. or fibers. Yeah. And honestly, it makes. me wonder. if he felt like they might come looking. for him or like or like for that room in. particular. Like that would have to be. the case. >> Sharon saw and gave a description of, but did he know that she saw? >> I don't know. I can't be 100% sure. It doesn't seem like he knew that Sharon. saw. In everything that I've seen, like.

Sharon's account of what she saw wasn't. published yet. Like they just talk about. her being blindfolded. So, like we don't. find out about the room until like years. later. Now, after 50 hours with Mr. Cruel, Nikki was forced to take a shower. just like Sharon was before being. dropped off. >> Did she get her clothes back or was she. in a trash bag or trash bags like Sharon. was? >> She was wearing the same clothes that. she was abducted in. But, I'm assuming. that he kept some of the clothes that he.

took because like reporting at the time. starts talking about how Mr. Cruel had a. thing for stealing girls' clothes. And. it seems like the uniform jacket in. particular, the one that he made her put. on was of particular interest to him. because Mr. Cruel actually told Nikki. that he had a schoolgirl fantasy and. that he followed her home from school. >> Did Nikki see anything? Like his car or. the room that she was in like Sharon. did?

>> It seems like she did because she. describes this house that or wherever. she was as having like four rooms or at. least four separate areas that she knew. about or like that maybe she had been in. in her 50 hours with him. So she. describes a bedroom, a kitchen, a room. with a toilet, and then a separate. bathroom. But it's only this separate. bathroom that I've ever seen described. in detail from Nikki's account. There's. actually a sketch that they end up. making of this. >> And do we think that this is the same. place? >> I So here's the thing. I don't know.

everything police have, but the way that. they talk about this is like like they. talk about the bedroom that Sharon saw. and that they draw a sketch of and then. the bathroom that Nikki saw that they. take a sketch of as like one unit. >> Okay. >> But I see how they're like connecting. the dots because when you look at like. the totality of what we know, Nikki ends. up describing almost the exact same car. that Sharon described being in. They. both kind of describe the same general. area, same quiet neighborhood, both. describe a driveway, and most. importantly, they both end up describing.

planes flying overhead. Now because. Nikki was there longer, she ends up. describing hearing between seven and. nine of them while she was kept there. And the number of planes and this. timeline that she has is even more. specific than the details they had. before. So police take this and they're. able to start mapping out the areas in. Melbourne that correspond with airports. and flight paths and to like fast. forward to the details and get you the. goods. Basically, they narrow it down.

and figure out that what Nikki had to. have been hearing were planes coming in. or out of Tullamarine Airport. This. airport is about a 35-45 minute drive. depending on traffic from the suburb. where she was taken. So those 45 minutes. or so that Nikki spent in the car would. add up. And they even pinpoint it down. to two specific flight paths of planes. that were landing at this airport. But, these two flight paths cover a huge.

area. So, yes, they narrowed it down, but like it doesn't actually narrow it. down all that much. >> So, are they sharing all of this. information publicly at this point? Like. what area are they looking at? What the. room, the bathroom look like? >> No, not right away. I mean, they do. finally tell the public that there is a. serial predator targeting young girls, and that's when they encourage people to. take extra safety measures to protect. their own families. But, they do not. share the descriptions of the rooms,

which I'm sure they're looking at as. like hold back information to protect. the investigation. >> and like I think like once this gets. out, someone's going to be doing some. redecorating. >> Well, yeah, like like on one hand you've. got this guy, you don't want him moving. or redecorating or realizing like that. you're narrowing in, but at the same. time the public could be your biggest. resource. >> Like, do you recognize this house? Do. you recognize this furniture? >> Especially with all that like peachy. matchy-matchy furniture. Like, I don't. know I don't know how differently things. would have gone if they would have like.

approached this differently, taken a. different tactic. But, they chose to. keep that to themselves at the time. Though, I wonder if they came to regret. that decision. Because I don't think. anyone was under the illusion that this. maniac was going to stop. They assumed that he would strike again. They just didn't know when or where. The rest of 1990 passed without another.

case being linked to Mr. Cruel. [music]. So, it wouldn't be surprising if some. people had begun to let their guards. down. Maybe he was in prison for. something else. Maybe he died or moved. away. But, just when Melbourne might. have been feeling [music] safe again. on April 13th, 1991. the attack on 13-year-old Carmen Chen. happened. and everyone knew that Mr. Cruel was. still out there and he was more. dangerous than ever. When the attacker. broke into her house wearing a mask and.

wielding a knife, she was babysitting. her two little sisters while her parents. worked at the [music] restaurant that. they own nearby. The attacker forced. Carmen's two younger sisters into a. cupboard and took Carmen, but as soon as. he left one of the girls called their. parents and their dad rushed back to the. house and called police. And I have to. imagine that even before they arrive on. the scene, investigators are already. making assumptions about who they're. dealing with and how they're going to. get Carmen back. [music] Any kind of.

ransom is most certainly out of the. question. I mean, the ransom demand that. Mr. Cruel left with Nikki's sister was. totally fake, but [snorts] the message. he left here. doesn't even have an ask. Spray-painted. in graffiti on the family's car are the. words payback, more to come, and [music]. Asian drug deal. Now, they have to look. into this, but they have to almost run. that in parallel with an investigation. that assumes this is just another form. of Mr. Cruel trying to like throw them. off his tracks, which in hindsight seems.

to be the case because the family. insists they have no idea what this. message means and when police dig into. them, they are squeaky clean. And. interestingly, in this like Mr. Cruel. path, what police realize is that Carmen. actually went to the same school as. Nikki Linus, a place called Presbyterian. Ladies College. It was a private school. for girls. So, people are speculating. like did Mr. Cruel follow these girls. home from school? >> Which is what Mr. Cruel told Nikki.

>> Nikki, right. >> Or even scarier is this thought like is. he someone who works at the school? So, everyone is. hoping. >> [music]. >> and waiting for Carmen's return while. police are like working in the. background. I would think looking. closely at their school. But the details. of their investigation are scant. It was. 18 hours for Sharon to come back, 50. hours for Nikki. They don't know what.

they're in for, but they will do. anything to bring Carmen back. So her. parents actually do a TV interview where. her mother Phyllis is sobbing on camera. pleading for their daughter to come. back. It is absolutely heartbreaking to. watch. >> Please. bring my daughter Carmen back to home. because all my family love her really. much and the two sister couldn't sleep. and really upset. Your favorite dress here Carmen. Come.

back AND DRESS IT. PLEASE. RELEASE my daughter. >> Carmen's little sisters even write. public letters to the kidnapper begging. for her return. But 50 hours pass and. then hundreds. And over the course of. weeks the family starts writing even. more open letters to Mr. Cruel begging. him to bring Carmen home. And every. single letter I'm telling you about they. are heartbreaking. In some they try to. reason with this guy. Like you released.

the others, please just release our. girl. They try to appeal to some kind of. him that might be good telling him how. her sisters are sleepwalking at night, calling out her name and waking up at. all hours of the night looking out the. window hoping that she's going to come. walking toward the house like the other. girls did. [music] And some of these. letters that her sisters write just like. show you their age and like how much. they're like hoping their sister is. going to come home. I actually have one. right here from her sister Karen.

It says, "I miss you a lot of time. >> [music]. >> I am very scared in the dark and mom and. dad miss you very much. Mimi is sick. because she misses you, too.". Mimi was their dog. "Love from Karen.". >> [music]. >> In other letters, they try to bargain. They like even at one point give him. instructions to appeal box. And this is. like in apparently code that they say. only Carmen would know. But as time goes. on, the letters just [music] become. desperate pleas. I mean in one, Carmen's. mom offers to exchange her own life for.

her daughter's. And I would imagine that. all along police are trying to reassure. this family that Mr. Cruel is going to. return their daughter like he always. does, right? But privately, I suspect. that they're worried that this time. might be different. So, they're going to. have to do something different to find. this guy and hopefully to find Carmen. So, a little more than 2 weeks after. Carmen's disappearance, police create a. task force dubbing it Operation. Spectrum. Posters are created featuring.

the face of Carmen and Nikki and Sharon. and they're distributed at every police. station in Victoria where Melbourne is. located. And they make mass appeals to. the public for tips and they also do. this huge letter dropping campaign. mobilizing 5,000 volunteers to. distribute brochures all around the. area. And I want you to just like pause. for a second to visualize that. Like. this is an army of people going all the. way to New South Wales and South. Australia dropping more than a million.

pamphlets, [music] talking to neighbors, doing everything they can to raise. awareness about this girl. [music] And. by this point, the media is in an. absolute frenzy and this case is making. newspaper headlines all over the. country. And to put it into perspective, like this is in the '90s before non-stop. coverage of missing women on cable news. was kind of the norm. Even now, decades. later, people remember that this time. was so scary to live in Melbourne. I was.

was at like Reddit threads about this. and one person posted about how their. gym class was canceled. And for 4 weeks, the police taught them self-defense. [music] lessons instead. Another person. said that you couldn't even leave the. house without seeing Carmen's face. plastered everywhere, trains, billboards, bus stations. >> [music]. >> And a third commenter remembers how. suddenly everyone was getting picked up. from school by their parents instead of. walking home. And when they were home, I'm sure it wasn't unusual to get a. knock at their door from a volunteer or.

to see a sniffer dogs and helicopters. patrolling because police were estimated. to have knocked on 30,000. doors. >> But at this point, they're still not. telling people. >> [music]. >> that they have a description of what the. house looks like inside. >> Mhm. But they were focusing their door. knocking heavily on that part of. Melbourne near the airport that they had. honed in on, where they think that this. guy lives or where he's keeping the. girls. And it's almost like now they're. especially not going to release the. interior stuff. Like it would be extra.

dangerous to do that. Or at least that. seems to be the line of advice that they. were getting from the FBI early on. because they actually consulted them for. a profile, which came back right before. this canvas. [music] And even in the. profile, the FBI's like, "Look, you. don't want to go out with this profile. unless you have to because your goal is. to get him to release Carmen. So if he. feels like he's backed into a corner and. he can't release her, he might do. something drastic. So hold the beat, and. if in a couple of days she's still not.

back, [music] then you should use a more. proactive approach and go out with. this." And they say the same for the. house. They don't want this guy to move, right? Or to your point, like redecorate. or whatever. But the thing is for some. reason, they don't go out with anything for a. long while. It seems like they just use. this profile and like the pictures and. stuff internally to hone their potential. list of suspects. And I want to go over. the profile cuz I think it's really. interesting. Now, in the profile that I. saw, it was dated April 24th, 1991.

[music] And they say that they believe. the offender lives in the same area. where the first attack occurred. And. that's near the suburb of Lower Plenty. And they think this because where. Carmen's family lived is, I guess, close. to that area, too. And they think that. this guy was, quote unquote, returning. And when they see that, they call it. clustering. And it usually indicates. that that area holds some kind of. significance for this offender. Like I. said, he either lives there, or they say. there's a potential that he is employed.

[music] near there. Now, the other thing. they point out is they think there is a. high probability that the offender is. involved with a school, which makes. sense. [music] Three of the attacks. occurred either during school holidays. or just around the time that school was. supposed to end. Yeah, which I didn't. mention. Sharon was right around. Christmas. Nikki was right at the. beginning of winter break. And Carmen. was abducted right after a school break. began. And there also seems to be this. preoccupation with school uniforms, all.

right? And both Nikki and Carmen went to. the same school. We know that, as well. They say that the offender is someone. who has an intense interest in children, especially within the age range that. he's assaulting. >> [music]. >> Now, they say that, like when people. notice him or like interact with him, this may come off as just like a. dedication that has maybe even won him. award or recognition. Coach of the year, teacher of the year, something like. that. They also say that he will have. filmed or photographed his assaults and.

still has the proof of that. He likely. will keep that stuff unless he thinks. law enforcement knows about them. So, they specifically recommend not. saying this part out loud because this. would be highly valuable evidence if. they ever catch this guy, and they don't. want to, like, prompt him to destroy it. Now, they say that they think this. offender is highly functional, most. likely polite. This guy's a good. neighbor. He's probably got a steady. job. And he's someone that's going to. appear normal and above suspicion to.

those around him. Then they go on to. list some of the specifics that you. would expect, right? Like people close. to him may have noticed a change in. behavior right after these incidents. Like he may have missed work right. after. So, >> looking at these profile points, like. who does that. fit? Right? Like with this level of. resource being thrown at these cases, like. they had to have turned up something by. now. >> yeah, they're fielding like literally. thousands of tips from the public. And. at some point we learned from the media.

that Operation Spectrum has led to the. arrest of like 73 people. But a local paper calls these ancillary. arrests. Like they're being charged with. things like child sexual abuse material, blackmail, extortion. But importantly, not for kidnapping and assault. In other. words, of these 73 people they arrested, Mr. Cruel is not one of them, or they. can't prove that Mr. Cruel is one of. them. And according to media reports at. the time, they still have about 30. different suspects that can't be ruled.

out. Lead Inspector David Sprogue. relayed to the media that, quote, "In 25. years with the Victoria Police, he had. never tried to track a cooler, more. calculating criminal with such an. extensive knowledge of forensic. science." End quote. Meaning. they haven't gotten any physical. evidence? >> Well, I mean, I know all these years. later that they did process some. physical evidence from the car that Mr. Cruel briefly stole from the Linus.

family, right? We know they were in. there for just a little bit. According. to this guy David Wells, who was a. forensic physician with the Victoria. Police back then, I mean, he just. recently came out and said this. He says he found some forensic evidence. Now, I don't know what that is or how. long they've had it, but I know that. they weren't saying anything about this. at the time. I mean, and really we're. talking about like late '80s, early. '90s. There wasn't much you could do. with something that you had any I mean. aside from like direct comparison. So,

that's what they're focused on. Their. focus remains on finding Mr. Cruel and. looking for Carmen. But, it turns out. that she would end up being found just. by complete accident. [music]. Just days before the first anniversary. of her disappearance, a local alerts. authorities to this human skull that he. found while walking his dog near an. electrical substation. >> That's the second time you've mentioned. electrical substation. I guess I don't. really know what that is. >> Oh, so those are those areas like where.

you see like a bunch of electric. equipment like transformers and power. lines surrounded Usually, they're like. surrounded by a fence or whatever. >> Oh, yeah. >> And like this isn't like a office. building or they're not manned by any. >> like gated and fenced and like off to. the side of the road. >> never really like Honestly, I don't pay. attention to that. I'm like like for. most of us electricity just shows up at. our house. We like don't ask questions. So anyways, she's found near this area. and when police come out and do a. search, they find even more remains. beyond just the skull. And after some.

comparisons, it is determined that. police have finally located Carmen Chan. >> She had to have been out there for a. while if the remains they found were. just skeletal. >> Yeah, and this is the heartbreaking. thing. The forensic physician believes. that she had been there for up to a. year. So basically, like the. >> time everyone was looking for her. Can. they tell at all how she died? >> Yeah, she was shot in the head three. times execution style. I I see your face. like I was shocked as well. This is a.

huge I feel like surprised to me because. like at least like when I'm looking at. this case and like what I know of other. cases, this doesn't seem to be in line. with what we know about Mr. Cruel and. how he treated his alleged victims. Like. this is new. >> Well, and I also feel like we don't see. this in a lot of child abduction cases. that end this way. Like I don't have any. stats to back this up, but. I feel like. when this happens to a child, it's. a lot closer. Like blunt force trauma or.

strangulation. Like execution-style. shooting? >> Right. I like I what you're talking. about, I think you see that when the. murder wasn't intentional, but they were. killed like during another act or. because things spun out of control. This. definitely seemed planned. Like maybe. not planned when he abducted her, but. like this was intentional, right? And the leading theory when when people. talk about this is that maybe Carmen saw. something she wasn't supposed to, like.

Mr. Cruel's face. Maybe she fought back. Maybe she removed the blindfold or his. mask. >> Or maybe she recognized him. >> That is what would make sense to me. >> And I assume they had to have looked at. people at her school. I mean, it was the. profile that they were kind of. going with, right? >> They had to have. But again, I don't. know the specifics of the investigation. or who they looked at or what schools, but also maybe the profile was wrong. Because here's the thing, even though. they end up finding Carmen, even though.

they think they know the type of person. that they're looking for, it does not change the state of the case. ever. I mean, they keep working it, of. course. And in 1992, they do end up releasing. some information from the FBI profile to. Bruce Tobin at The Age, this like daily. paper. And I don't know if the FBI. profile was updated or what, but this. article includes even more information. than the official report from the year. prior. And in this one, they say that.

they think Mr. Cruel would be obsessed. with cleanliness. That he had a steady. job and that he is quote creative and. visually oriented. But when that doesn't. lead to their man, that's when they finally release the. illustrations of Mr. Cruel's bedroom and. bathroom in 1993. And they say within a day, they get over. 400 calls, which result in even more. interviews and even more checks. But. still no arrests. And without that or.

any more kidnappings, over time the cost. and resources eventually just get too. high to justify the task force anymore. So, it ends up getting disbanded. >> He never attacked again? >> Nope. Or at least not with the MO of Mr. Cruel. >> I mean, do you think he got scared after. Carmen and stopped? I don't know what to think. I mean, that's the reason that people are still. so obsessed with this case, I think. Like some say, "Yeah, having to kill. Carmen spooked him and he stopped." Some.

people say that this guy's probably. dead, or some say he moved away from. Melbourne. And all of those who think. he's still alive wonder if he's out. there somewhere plotting his next. attack. But no one knows who to look out. for because they know almost nothing. about this boogeyman or the. investigation into him. Everything has. still been so tight-lipped. Though I. will say, there was a leak in the system.

come 2016. 25 years after Carmen Chan's. disappearance, we get a peek behind the. curtain when journalist Keith Moore. publishes an investigation in the Herald. Sun revealing brand new information from. the task force Operation Spectrum. The. stuff that had never been published. before. And you've probably caught on by. now. I referenced Keith's reporting a. lot because he [clears throat] did a ton. to shed new light on this case. Well, his work revealed the existence of. this dossier called the Sierra files,

which is a list of seven suspects that. more than two decades after Operation. Spectrum disbanded, still could not be. ruled out by law enforcement. Now, even. though the Herald Sun got their hands on. this list, the Victoria police asked. them not to name the suspects publicly, which Moore agreed to, but he knew the names of the suspects, and so he went and tracked at least one. of these people down. And lo and behold,

this ends up admitting to him that he. was grilled for 12 hours about the case, and that he knows the former task force. lead thinks that out of everyone they've. looked into, he was their number one. suspect. Now, even though Moore doesn't. give this guy his name in the article, he does say that this guy was a former. Melbourne University lecturer. And per a report by psychology lecturer. Dr. J. H. Court, there was one former Melbourne. University lecturer who he does name.

that is also a convicted sex offender. So, let me tell you a little bit about. this guy who some people are like. drawing like links to. Between 1972 to. 1974, this guy attacked six different. young women and girls. He was known for. tying his victims up, threatening them. with a knife before assaulting them. He. pled guilty to at least one rape charge. and was sentenced to 10 years for his. crimes. So, he was out by the time that.

the Mr. Cruel attacks started happening, but he was never charged in connection. with the crimes of Mr. Cruel. And the. unnamed man interviewed by Keith Moore, should he be the same man or a different. one, I don't know, that guy denies any involvement in the. cases. >> Well, I assume if it were him or even. whoever this unnamed guy is, we would know. Like, if they have DNA, like you mentioned, they had to have. compared it by now, right? So So this is. the part that is so confusing to me. So,

when I said it came out recently, it. wasn't until August 2025. that we ever even heard there was. potentially forensic evidence in one of. the cases. So, like I said, this comes. from David Wells, who was a forensic. physician with Victoria police back when. the attacks were happening. And he just. went on Crime Insiders podcast and told. the host that he had personally. collected crucial genetic evidence. But, they needed someone to compare it to.

Now, to me, it seems like those seven. people who haven't been ruled out. >> a list of seven people. Where do you. start with? >> you start, right? Like So So I don't get. it. Unless the one of the only things I. can think of is like God forbid they. lost it, which would explain a lot of. the hush-hush silence around this. >> not known that there was ever evidence. to begin with. >> But like praying that's not the case, the other option I was thinking about. was like. they could have maybe gotten some kind. of profile from whatever was collected, and maybe they tested that against.

people. But maybe this profile is just. from like one case, right? And the. people don't match that one profile, and. they're like keeping their options open. that there is more than one offender, or. like just because you're ruled out in. this one doesn't mean you're ruled out. in all of them. I don't know. This is. This is something that I've like just. gone around and around like thought a. ton since I've been deep in this. >> When you say it might not be the same. person, that's like multiple people. But. the MOs are exactly the same. >> I mean, when you say exactly, they're.

exactly the same I think for Sharon and. Nikki. But let me hear me out. So, in. 2016, Keith Moore published that Eliza's. case, our very first victim, she and her. family described Mr. Cruel as having a. slim to medium build. And they say that. the way that he spoke made him sound, they say, uneducated. In Sharon's case, our second victim, they describe a guy. who has a thin to medium build, well-spoken. [music]. Now, in Nikki's case, they said this guy. had a beer belly, and he sounded, quote, "not really educated." So, here's what I.

started like. come down the rabbit hole with me, are. you ready? So, what if. these are like two to three different. guys sharing notes? Like, it is all. connected, but it is not just one Mr. Cruel. I mean. >> That seems so far-fetched. >> You mean a world where pedophiles have. one coordinated network, and that. ripples through like all echelons of. society? Like. >> I mean, I stand corrected.

>> I'm not just reaching because we're in. like a post-Epstein files world. I want you to see this article that I. found on the front page of The Age, dated June 7th, 1992. This is just a couple of months out from. when Carmen's remains were discovered. >> Oh, this is a front page? >> the front page. >> The biggest headline here is, quote, "Child Porn's Secret Society.".

>> Dude, I. I went like I can't Okay, so, let me. just tell you about it. >> Yeah, like how did we get here? >> Journalist Caroline Wilson, she. I was going to say she infiltrated this. group, but it's like not even that deep. This woman just shows up to this. basically pedophile club to report on. it. She found that this group met every. Friday in Melbourne. And they had this sort of uniform. They. all show up wearing balaclavas.

>> No. >> You not. And listen, the guests are all. men, though they hide their faces, even. though they say that what they're doing. is totally normal and okay. And they're. like open about the roles and positions. that they hold all within like polite. society. Like, Wilson writes quote, "On. this particular night, they include a. psychologist, a publicist, a telecom. technician, and two car factory workers. recently retrenched, which we would. refer to in the US as like laid off. At.

least three others are former scout. leaders." End quote. And then she goes. on to mention others throughout the. piece like a charity official. And she. says that the group has more than 100. members. Now, not every person is there. for the same reasons. Some of these. people she says are there looking for. same-sex encounters with other adults. But, quote, "Among tonight's guests are. a number of pedophiles and child sex. offenders. One male couple are facing.

police charges for kidnapping an. 8-year-old girl and filming her. blindfolded." And at this party, they're. apparently exchanging notes and names of. minors and child sexual abuse material. >> this is front-page news, clearly the police had to have been. aware of it. >> They were, but Wilson said that their. operations to stop this were just like. scratching the surface of what this was. Surprise, surprise, that this is like a. this goes deep, right? And that's.

because it was so prevalent. In her. words, quote, "Wherever there are groups. of children, there are pedophiles. And. where there are pedophiles, there is. likely to be child I would call it. sexual abuse material." And she. clarifies that even though most people. would want to believe that people were. like making it for themselves, most of. the time they were making this abuse. material to sell, distribute, share, trade. And listen, this article is so long, it.

is so informative, but here are my big. takeaways like that relate to this. episode. I've got like a ton of broader. thoughts about the prevalence of this. and like where they target children and. how like truly the foundation of the. systems that we thought were in place to. help kids are actually used to traffic. them. So, stay tuned and stay informed, people. Here in the US, most of us are. begging for the child abusers listed in. the Epstein files to be arrested and. those who aren't are probably abusers.

themselves, right? Like it feels pretty. black and white to me. But, what do I. know? I just talk about crime all day, every day and I grew up being told that. sexually based offenses are considered. especially heinous. Like, whatever. Back to the takeaways for this this. episode. Number one, the balaclavas are interesting to me. knowing that that played such a. prominent part in this case. Now, sometimes you see in reports that like. in some of the cases there was a ski.

mask, not a balaclava. And like any. person doing this is probably going to. hide their face, right? But, like still. interesting coincidence. >> Yeah. >> Number two, something that stood out to. me was that the family said this guy was. wearing a tweed sports jacket, which. like. I don't know. I thought it was so weird. even before I knew about this like. social club. It feels very like. >> buttoned up. >> Yeah, he had like he had like pin and. I'm like that's not to me when you're. like going under cover of night and. you're going to like. >> sneak into someone's house.

>> It it yeah. >> in a sports coat. >> Doesn't like I feel super bizarre. >> it's so odd to me. So, like in my mind. like that attack I'm like you could. almost be either in this girl's home or. you could be at this like social club. >> Yeah. >> Now, the other thing that I noticed was. that there is one account in the article. about a girl who was filmed in what she. called or they called a safety house, which got me wondering if that's what. the room and like bathroom if that's. what we've been looking for, right? Like. this would make even more sense why this.

guy wouldn't want any trace evidence. from the girls left behind, not just. them taking evidence. Like maybe this. isn't a place that he lives and gets to. watch over day in and day out. Now, listen, I know that police looked into the world. of like child sexual abuse because a. March 1992 article in The Age said that. more than 50 {quote} ancillary arrests. spun out of their investigation. And by. May, they confirmed to reporters Paul.

Daley and Caroline Wilson that they're. investigating these rings specifically. in relation to Carmen's case because. they learned that offenders are known to. trade information on future victims. And. here they even speculate that more than. one person was linked to her death. But the literal next day that that. article was published, there's this like. tiny little blurb that ran on page three. of The Age that said the head of the. Spectrum Task Force denied pretty much. everything that was previously reported.

But the editor of The Sunday Age stood. by the accuracy of the report. And then it's like the end. Like. that's when we stop talking about it. Granted, like that's when they stop. talking about it in relation to Mr. Cruel. That headline that I just showed. you ran in June after that. Now, in. later years, I feel like this theory. gets the least amount of attention, but. it is the one that makes the most sense. to me. Though, to be fair, when people. talk about specific people, they don't.

necessarily rule out the idea that they. might have been involved in something. sinister like this. But most of the. prevailing theories, even the way that. police talk, it's like they all know it. was just one guy. But I don't know how. they know that or how they could all. these years later. >> Well, and who else has been named over. the years? >> You're not going to believe this, but. actually. uh one of the most recent suspects that. got named was Joseph DeAngelo. >> The Golden State Killer. >> That's the one.

>> Golden State as in the. >> US, in California. >> Yeah, apparently after his arrest US. authorities realized that the year after. the Golden State Killer attacks stopped. in California, that's when Mr. Cruel. emerged in Australia. >> Okay. >> And after looking into it, the US. authorities like found that Joseph. actually had spent some time in. Australia like on a tour of duty during. the Vietnam War. >> Which. >> Yeah. >> I know what you're going to say. This is. not. >> Which was not in the 1980s. >> Yeah, timing. >> They're kind of thinking, well, you.

know, he has some connection to this. place. Maybe he could have like. gone back, returned at some point. They kind of have similar MOs, like the. breaking and entering, wearing a mask, claiming to rob their victims before. committing sexual assault. And like the. idea that they're like meticulous. planners. And not even that, like both. of them at one point paused during their. attacks to like eat food out of the. victim's fridge. But as like incredible. of an ending as that would be to this. story, I have to break it to you that. like pretty quickly Victoria police rule. him out as a suspect. I don't know have.

the details on how they rule him out, but we do know that Victoria police. investigated this theory, decided there. is not much to it. But if we're looking. to the Victoria police for a name, maybe. we should trust the guy who worked for. them for ages, who's been telling the. public about a suspect that was brought. to him years ago. In 2022, a pretty well-known Australian. homicide detective named Ron Iddles. starts becoming vocal about a potential.

theory of who Mr. Cruel could be. He. says that the man's identity was shared. with him by a career criminal that he. helped put behind bars. Ron went on a. podcast called Life in Crimes with. Andrew Rule, where he tells the story of. his conversation with a notorious armed. robber [music] named Alfred Gay, also. known as Alfie. >> And why is he talking to a podcaster and. not other police? Like no shade. >> No, we also want the story. >> No, I assume he did. Um,

this is coming out like I said in 2022, but he heard the story back in 2004 when. he was still working at the agency. So, like just a quick backstory. Alfie Gee. was this pretty infamous. >> [music]. >> crook. He was involved in several big. heists in Australia in the 70s including. the notorious MSS robbery where he and. his gang posed as fake security. officers, stole the entire weekly. payroll for workers at a Ford Motor. Company in Melbourne. Like 250k big. [music] at the time. And then he was. involved in the great bookie robbery. where a heavily armed gang stole.

anywhere from 1 to 15 million dollars. from a sports betting club. So, long. story short, Alfie comes to Ron and he's. like. there's this guy who was involved in. some criminal stuff with me [music] and. he admitted to me that he killed Carmen. Chan. The name he gives Ron is Norman Lung. Lee. He went by Normie. And when you. look at the circumstances surrounding. Normie, there are some really compelling. reasons why this very well could be.

true. So, for one, Alfie says that Normie had. a fetish for school girls and. specifically school uniforms, which like. check. >> Mhm. >> Second, Alfie tells the detective that. Normie had a house close to Lower Plenty. where Eliza's attack took place. And he. apparently owns a dim sum factory in. like the northwest suburbs which is out. in the direction of Tullamarine Airport. So, he would have been very familiar. with that area. And the shallow grave where Carmen was.

eventually found, apparently that's like. right in between his factory and where. he lived. Now, over the years some have. speculated that Mr. Cruel might be. someone in law enforcement because he's. just so good at covering his tracks and. getting away with crimes. But, you know what other class of. individual is really good at covering. their tracks? >> Career criminals. >> Exactly. Also, one of the biggest. mysteries of all in this case is why Mr. Cruel suddenly stopped attacking girls. after Carmen. Well, in July of 1992,

just over 1 year after the disappearance. of Carmen, Normie Lee was involved in. another big heist and he was killed by. police as they chased him. Now, just to. reiterate, the story I've just told you, while like cinematic as hell, is purely. circumstantial. Normie Lee was never. charged with any of the crimes. associated with Mr. Cruel and police. never named him as a suspect. And the. other thing I'll say is he doesn't. really fit at all with the FBI profile. But I do have one more theory to run.

down with you. As you can imagine, this. case becomes an obsession for many. online sleuths. You know, someone's got to keep these. cases alive. And a couple of them have. landed on a completely new theory that. has really taken hold online. At some. point, people started mapping out all. the different locations of Mr. Cruel's. attacks and the places where his victims. were released, and they realized that all of his.

victims were either kidnapped or let go. near electricity infrastructure. Not just like power lines like you see. everywhere. Specifically, >> Like substations. >> Yeah, terminal stations and substations. like the ones I mentioned earlier. And. they're almost all ones that power the. areas relevant to this case. Suggesting. to some that maybe this man had deep. knowledge of electrical infrastructure. Maybe he spent time in the areas. which could have exposed him to the.

girls. Now, interestingly, in 2022, 60 Minutes. Australia's Under Investigation program. interviewed a girl who lived on the same. street as Sharon Wills. And for the. first time publicly, she shared a story. her family gave police back when Sharon. first went missing. Apparently, about 6. weeks before Sharon was taken, this. girl's brother was out in this like big. grassy area behind Sharon's house. playing with like his friend when they. spotted some dude like creeping around.

the power lines near Sharon's fence. She said, quote, "The area the houses. are around is specifically for the power. lines. No kids would play up there apart. from my brothers. There's no reason for. anyone else to be up there. It's. dangerous." End quote. Now, this guy. wasn't just standing around, either. [music] He held a JVC camera and was. filming into Sharon's yard over the. fence. But, as soon as he realized that. the boys spotted him, he like took off.

Now, the devastating part is that even. though they reported this pretty soon. after Sharon was taken, police didn't. come knocking to interview them until. years later. And even then, they got. like a very quick statement from them. and just left. But, even now, they. remember this guy vividly. They said he. was unkempt, balding on the top with a. beard, and they're sure that if they. could just get everyone's attention to.

look at the sketch that was made up of. him, someone would have to recognize. this guy. But, it's 4 years out from. that release, and that man who was. filming her backyard has never been. identified, >> [music]. >> and neither has Mr. Cruel. In 2024, The. Age published yet another update profile. in an article by John Silvester. In this. new profile, they doubled down on the. earlier theory that this guy is obsessed. with cleanliness and hygiene, and they.

say they think he's a chameleon and a. planner. [music]. He might also be into photography and. could be known to carry around his. equipment. >> [music]. >> And though it's not emphasized in this. article, old reports zeroed in on. specific words that he would use during. the attacks, Bozo and Missy. But I kind. of wonder if maybe that was something he. used to try and throw people off because. most of the profiles say that he's of. above average intelligence, including. this new one. Sylvester's article also.

lists these attributes. His primary. intake sense is visual. However, he has. an extremely strong auditory sense as. [music] well. He has a history of breaking and. entering along with theft long before he. attacked and abducted young girls from. their homes. His criminal past would. also include sexual assault and stalking. the victims. He may be extremely angry with the. parents of the victims for personal. reasons. He carries a personal anger. towards his parents possibly for a lack. of parenting and neglect.

He misdirects his anger onto his primary. victims' parents. He has a problem with. being social and intimate with women in. his age group. And Sylvester writes, quote, Detectives speculate he may have. killed himself, died of natural causes, or moved overseas to a country that is. lax on child exploitation. End quote. So though Mr. Cruel may have. been Australia's boogeyman for many.

years, the truth is he could be anywhere. So Crime Junkies across the globe, if. you have any information surrounding the. crimes of Mr. Cruel, you can submit a. tip anonymously through Crime Stoppers. in Australia. crimestoppers.com.au. And if you want to reach out to us about. anything mentioned in today's episode, email tips@audiochuck.com. You can find all the source material for. this episode on our website, [music]. crimejunkie.com.

>> And you can follow us on Instagram at. crimejunkiepodcast. >> We'll be back next week with a brand new. episode.