3 Missing Person Cases That Don’t Add Up

Hi Crime Junkies. You know that we. always go a layer deeper. And this week. the team and I have been working on a. case that just keeps unfolding. Like. every time I think I've reached the end, there is another twist, another detail, another question that needs answering. So that episode is coming out this week, but because I just keep learning more, I. need a couple extra days to make sure. that I can bring you the full story. So. while you wait, I have pulled together. some of our most chilling, mysterious. disappearance cases. Episodes that will.

keep you guessing and maybe make you. even rethink [music] everything you. thought you knew. Settle in and make. sure you're subscribed with that bell. notification on so you are the first to. know when this week's new episode drops. Hi Crime Junkies, I'm Ashley Flowers. >> And I'm Brit. >> And this is Chuck. The Chuck of audio.

chat. Please forgive us, but our. 14-year-old man wanted to cuddle today. and I'm I'm allowing it. Totally. And. it's not going to keep me from telling. you an incredible story. And that story [music]. is a mystery right out of our home state. of Indiana. I've heard this story, but. listen Brit, the circumstances of this. are so foreign but always felt so far. away to me. We're talking horse. mobsters. Illegal medical boats. operating out in open waters. There has. been no.

>> case like this before or since. And. that's why it's one of Indiana's most. infamous cases. The work day has barely started on. Monday, July 4th, 1966 when Indiana. Dunes State Park, which today is. surrounded by Indiana Dunes National. Park, like it's like a whole thing, anyways. Superintendent William Spedick. is getting a panicked call on his office. phone. The caller ID's himself as Harold. Blau, and he's like, "Look, my daughter.

and her friends were at your park on. Saturday. It's Monday now, and they. haven't come home. My wife and I are. super worried. You know, these are three. young women.". Harold's daughter, Patricia, she's 19. Her friends, Ann Miller. and Renee Broll are around the same age, like 21 and 19, respectively. >> Okay. But, Patricia still lives at home, and. she wouldn't leave for days without. giving her parents a heads-up. And. Patricia had even told her mom Saturday. [music] that morning when she left that.

she would be home that night for dinner. And the other girls were supposed to be. home, too, but none of them returned to. their Chicago homes just [music] over. the state line. Swedek tells Harold, "Okay, listen. I'll look into it." But, this uneasy feeling starts to creep in. his belly because he might already know. something about the missing girls, and. it could be bad. You see, 2 days before, on Saturday, a park ranger had brought a. bunch of random items into his office. saying that there was things that had.

been left on the beach of Lake Michigan. by three women who went into the water. and boarded a boat around noon that day, but then never returned. >> How did they know that? Because there. were witnesses. There were some. teenagers nearby that had seen them get. onto the boat. They saw them leave their. stuff, and then they alerted the ranger. when they were like those teenagers were. getting ready to go, and the stuff was. still there because it seemed like this. is the kind of stuff that you like. wouldn't you would leave only if you. were planning to come back, right? Like. there's like the thermos, there's some. sunglasses, lotion, those kind of.

things. Even more significant items, too, like cash, a purse, clothes, a pair. of shoes. Like they should have been. back. >> Right. Now, at the time, the ranger. wasn't especially concerned when he. collected these things. Though, the. Chicago Tribune reports that he [music]. did get a description of the boat, at. least, which they said was a small boat. with white exterior and a blue interior, maybe turquoise-ish blue. And it had an. outboard motor. They even gave the. ranger a description of the driver.

Which they say was a tan, dark-haired. young man. But listen, people leave stuff on the. beach all the time, especially on. crowded days like the Saturday before. the 4th of July. So at the time, he just. gathered the things up and dropped them. in Svedics office. But no one was like. out manning a massive search or trying. to find the owners of these items at the. time. Now everyone kind of thought that. whoever it was that owned these things. would eventually come looking for the. stuff at some point. But now with this.

phone call, a darker thought washes over. Svedic. Lake Michigan is notorious for. its strong, unpredictable currents. Like. it is not outside the realm of. possibility that the women, maybe even. their captain, too, had gone for a swim. or gotten into an accident and found. themselves outmatched by Mother Nature. Like we live here, so many people. underestimate Lake Michigan. >> Yeah. Yeah. So once he hangs up with. Harold, Svedic starts rifling through. the items. He's looking for clues. And I.

mean, to be fair, he doesn't even know. that the women who left these things. were Patricia Ann and Renee. It just. like to him feels too much like of a. coincidence not to be. >> Mhm. But that's the first order of. business, right? [music] Now when he. finds a keychain with car keys and a. miniature Illinois license plate and. realizes that the plate has what looks. like a pretty legitimate plate number, he gets this idea. He calls a few. employees, sends them out to check the. parking lot near the dunes. And sure. enough, there is a car with that exact.

plate in the lot. And sure enough, when. they run down the plate number with. Chicago PD, Svedic gets the confirmation. he needs. The car in the parking lot is. registered to Ann Miller from the. Chicago suburb of Westchester, which. makes this official. He has got a triple. disappearance on his hands and [music]. something of that magnitude is above his. pay grade. So, that's when seasoned. Indiana State Police investigator, Detective First Sergeant Edward Burke, steps in to help [music] the. investigation. And he doesn't waste any.

time. One of his first moves is to go. through the purse that had been left. [music] on the beach and it turns out. that purse belonged to Renee. And he. knows it's hers because inside he finds. this rather intriguing letter. Now, Anne. and Patricia lived at home with their. parents, but 19-year-old Renee is. actually married and lives with her. husband at the time. And this letter. that they find was addressed to him and. >> Is he like away somewhere? >> No, so they live together. I mean, I. assume they see each other like on the. daily, but it seems like maybe they were.

a couple that like to get thoughts down. on paper when there were like big. things, which I think is what this was. cuz basically in this letter there are. some issues that she brings up. Like her. husband spending way too much time with. his buddies tinkering with hot rods, which is like sounds light and almost. cute, but it wasn't either of those. things to Renee. She even threatens to. split up over this. But it looks like I. mean, maybe she had second thoughts. about giving this to him because. according to the date scribbled on this. letter, it's like 2 weeks old by that. point, like when he's seeing it.

So, Sergeant Burke isn't quite sure what. to make of it, [music] but he also. doesn't have time to really ponder this. Feeling like Svitak might be right about. the woman's fate, he calls the US Coast. Guard to search the lake near the park. way at the southern end. And boy, does. the Coast Guard have their work cut out. for them because Lake Michigan is. enormous. I said, you guys everyone. underestimates it. Lake is like not even. the right word. Over 22,000. square miles enormous is how big we're. talking about. And even if you've seen.

the lakes on like a map in school or. geography or whatever, like it doesn't. give you a sense for it. >> No, like standing on the shore, it. honestly looks like an ocean. >> yeah. I mean, you can get out there at. some point and literally not see land on. any side of you. It is huge. So, it's. not all that surprising when they end. the day [music] empty-handed. So, first. thing next morning, Sergeant Burke gets. a huge ground search going to complement. the Coast Guard's efforts. He wants. every last square inch of the park. covered and also a good stretch of.

shoreline beyond [music] the park. It's. a hell of a task and for it, he. assembles a hell of a search party. A. bunch of troopers and park rangers, obviously, and even soldiers from a. nearby base, deputies from Porter County. Sheriff's Office, citizen volunteers who. will eventually be joined by their. bloodhounds. And with the Coast Guard. still at it, they're searching literally. plane, train, and automobile here. And. maybe not literally, but almost. You get. what I'm saying. And by the end of the. day, the searches have covered 40% of.

the park almost and still there is just. nothing. Now, the Chicago Tribune. reports that while the search is put on. hold overnight, Sergeant Burke orders a. patrol to man the shore until sunrise. [music] thinking if the women maybe. drowned, their bodies could wash up. soon. And while drowning from a boating. accident is only one theory, it's not at. all out of the question that they also. could have met with foul play. So, they. got to find this boat like if they're. going to know either way, right? And. while there are some sightings of white.

boats with blue interiors, they don't. find a boat that could have been in the. area like the boat when the girls went. missing. Are they sure they even got on. a boat in the first place? I know we. have that one sighting of the three. girls getting on the boat, but did. anyone else see that happen? They're not. sure of anything. I mean, you're right. All they have to back up even this boat. story like from the beginning is just. the word from those teenagers who. alerted the ranger. But, I will say over. the first couple of days as this goes. on, like when the story starts making. news, people start coming forward, they.

start getting some more witness tips, and that does seem to support the boat. story. More people who say they saw the. women climb onto a white boat with a. dark-haired well-tanned man that day. And actually, there are even a few. reports of them being seen on a larger. boat, like this time with three men. And. that was at some point that same [music]. afternoon. But for some reason, I think. that like those are mostly discounted. So, a few days into the search, the idea. of some sort of fatality-causing boat. accident starts [music] to gain.

traction. But according to more. reporting in the Chicago Tribune, random. boat debris starts washing up on shore. not far from the park. Pieces of seats, Styrofoam, scraps of metal, plywood, turquoise plywood. And they can tell. that this wreckage came from what the. reporting refers to as a {quote}. "outboard. motorboat." And like I said, this stuff. isn't washing up hours away. It's. washing up like 3 mi away near some sort. of power plant. Now, at this time, there. haven't been any reports of a missing.

boat, no reports of a crash, or of. missing or injured boaters, which some. find kind of strange. But it also might. just mean that the guy who owned the. boat isn't around to report it missing, or couldn't call it in before something. happens. >> Right. Or destroying the boat was. intentional because they find something. weird among the wreckage. The debris is. strewn with cans [music]. of oil and gasoline. Some of the plywood.

is even drenched in it. So, it feels like something fishy is a. foot. And yet, pretty quickly, authorities announce that the wreckage. couldn't have anything to do with the. missing women because there were no. reports of a boating accident. >> All the more reason to be suspicious. I. mean, something clearly happened here. The boat didn't douse itself in. gasoline. >> And it only gets worse from there. because the Terre Haute Star reports. that soon, authorities announce that the.

wreckage [music] is from a. rowboat. A metal rowboat. A metal rowboat that was also made of. turquoise [music] plywood and collided. with something with enough force to just. completely disintegrate it into pieces. Yes. Right, like it feels like there's some. tunnel vision going on here because the. Terre Haute Tribune reports that when. investigators are asked about three. different [music] possibilities, right? So like drowning, foul play, or a.

planned disappearance, their response is. telling. They say that there is no. evidence of drowning or foul play. >> So now they think the women pieced out. on purpose? Well, at first they play it. coy, but by the one week mark, Sergeant. Burke is like, "Yeah, we're pretty sure. this was all orchestrated.". >> The boat stuff, too? Like they blew it. up or that's unrelated? >> Still unrelated. They're not even trying. to make sense of the wreckage. And I get. why they start doubting the drowning. theory. Like, maybe a little premature,

but I mean they've devoted so much. manpower to searching the southern end. of Lake Michigan and from like every. angle, too. They've got those ground. searches, boat searches, whatever. Like. divers are even in there. And with. everything, they're thinking like if the. women did drown, like someone should. have found something by now [music] that. indicated that. >> Okay, so not drowning, but no evidence. of foul play based on what? On the fact. that that there's no evidence. But. there's also no evidence that it wasn't.

foul play. >> I feel like we've done this like dance. before. Oh, Chuck's getting up. What do you want to do, Bubba? You can get down. Good job, buddy. You were a star. Anyways, the the whole idea of it not. being foul play cuz there's no evidence. of foul play. To me, that's bananas, especially when the one thing that might. have been the evidence of foul play has. been discounted. >> Yeah, and listen, I get that walked off. on their own is always a theory when you. have a person go missing. But to me, it. seems super far-fetched to think about.

three women with three different lives, three different sets of circumstances, all committing to disappearing at once. on purpose. It's not not possible, it's. just. >> it's way less likely. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think mostly they think. this because there start to be some. supposed sightings, I guess, like near. and far. One like on a bus or like in a. bar or a club or whatever. And these are. like miles and miles away with strange. men. Sometimes they're even saying like.

hitchhiking, according to the Chicago. Tribune. And all of these, like they. never turn out to be legit, but. investigators run each one down, and. they keep coming in. So, I'm sure that's playing a role here. But I also suspect that it has a lot to. do with the letter that they found in. Renee's purse, the one to her husband. >> So, what about the hot rods? >> Yeah, they decided basically that she. may have wanted to just skip town on. account of her marital discord. She. didn't even give him the letter, though.

And that does nothing to explain the. other two disappearing with her. I know. And they obviously questioned the. husband, by the way, like he's in the. clear. So, her loved ones are like, "Okay, we hear you, but also, are you serious right now? Like she's 19 years old, and her. feelings were hurt over like. something you can probably work. through.". >> Right. And that was weeks ago. And. again, you say it has nothing to do with. why Ann and Patricia would have left. Like, they're not giving up their lives.

in what, solidarity over a husband's. hobby? Not maybe in solidarity. The. Chicago Tribune reports that according. to Sergeant Burke, all three, Ann and. Patricia included, have, quote unquote, personal problems, but he wouldn't say. what those are. Which isn't to say like we don't know. what he's getting at, because long story. short, what we know is that Patricia's. sister Janice tells Dateline in a recent. interview. So like we find this out way. later, that Patricia had been. connoodling with a married man. And Ann.

had supposedly told friends that she was. 3 months pregnant and might enter a. {quote} home for unwed mothers, which is. very much a thing in 1966. But it is such an antiquated concept in. like the year of our Lord 2025, well at. least for now, that um I asked you to do. some digging and give the Crime Junkies. a quick explainer for the young folk. listening. Can't know where you're going. unless you know where you've been, right? So being a pregnant unwed woman.

in the '60s, give it to us. Obviously, like you said, like I knew about the. concept, but I wanted to read up a. little bit before this episode. So I. found an article on Scary Mommy, which. I'll link to if you want to go deeper. There's even like a book on this. But. basically, there were these homes where. families of unmarried pregnant girls and. women. hid their daughters away while they were. pregnant, so no one would have to see. them because God forbid. God forbid. What a shame. Where were the men who got. these women and girls pregnant? Obviously, they were out there living. their lives. The women were the ones.

forced to wear the scarlet letter in the. form. >> [music]. >> of that baby bump. Then once they gave. birth and their babies were adopted out, voluntarily or otherwise, then and only. then could the women and girls be. returned to polite society. >> Love it. So these are supposedly some of. the personal problems that Sergeant. Burke is referring to. Although put a. pin in that because we're going to. circle back to it later. But personal. problems or not, the women's families.

don't agree. And they are just more. convinced by the day that the. disappearances weren't by choice. And on. July 14th, this is just 12 days in, that. fear starts to gain traction when a. brutal crime captures the attention of. well, everyone. Now it's very different, but it involves multiple young women. being held and killed at a single time. by a single person and from the same. area where the women are from, Chicago. It at the time does feel worth looking. into. And let me just give you a little,

like, the SparkNotes on this case. Corky. Siemaszko reports for NBC News that. around 11:00 p.m. on the night of July. 13th, a man armed with a gun and a. hunting knife climbed through the first. floor window of a Chicago townhouse. [music] where six student nurses were. sleeping in two upstairs bedrooms. He. crept up the stairs, [music] woke up all. six, and corralled them into a third. bedroom, binding their hands behind. their back. And he spent the next few. hours walking them out of the room one.

by one. >> [music]. >> and killing them one after another. Some of them by stabbing, some by. strangulation, and some by a combination. of the two. And I don't know why this. next detail bothers me so much, but his. victims weren't even just the six women. in the house when he broke in because. three more residents had the great. fortune of being gone when the bloodshed. started and the even greater misfortune. of coming home while it was unfolding. Siemaszko writes that eight women were.

tortured and killed over like four and a. half long hours that night. At least one. victim was sexually assaulted, although. I would wager that she probably wasn't. the only one. >> But wouldn't it be nine victims? If six. were already there and then three came. home? It would have if one woman didn't. have the right combination of courage, quick thinking, and [music] honestly. maybe sheer luck to survive. Her name. was Corazon Amurao, and seeing her last.

chance at survival, she actually crawled. under one of the beds while the killer. was out of the room. And from her hiding. spot, she heard each of her roommates. get marched out of the room followed by. what Shamasko describes as muffled cries. and then silence. And somehow, he just. didn't notice. Like there were so many. victims that this dude lost count. And. so when Corazon crawled back out around. 6:00 in the morning, it was just. carnage. Shamasko writes that she was so.

traumatized and so terrified that she. [music] climbed onto the ledge of a. second story window and just started. screaming. I mean, for all she knew, the. killer was still inside somewhere. So. once she was safe, she gave police a. pretty damn detailed description of the. perp, right down to his Born to Raise. Hell tattoo. And that ends up being the. key, because just 2 days later, a. Chicago physician feels his blood go.

cold when he sees the same four words on. a patient's forearm. This patient was. 24-year-old Richard Speck. Having grown. up in Texas, Speck is new to the Chicago. area where he's been staying with his. sister and her husband. And like so many. killers before him, he's like, "No, officers. I swear to you, I you have the. wrong guy. Absolutely not." Which, like. they absolutely do not because his. prints are all over the crime scene.

Shamasko reports that the assistant DA. who eventually prosecutes him for eight. [music] counts of capital murder gives. him the dubious distinction of being the. country's first random mass murderer. Random being the operative word since. organized crime was definitely a thing. in Chicago before this guy, but you get. what I'm saying. So this random massacre happens to a. group of women from the same area just 2. weeks after the Indiana Dunes women go. missing. And everyone's like, "Hey, maybe you should look at this because.

you got Truly, at this point, nothing. else other than they walked away, and. nobody's buying that. ISP Superintendent. Robert O'Neal. he's like, "Yeah, listen, we're checking. on it, but like don't get your hopes. up." And Sergeant Burke is even blunter. saying like there is no suggestion Speck. was near, let alone at Lake Michigan the. day that the women went missing. And. even if he was, let's just say that in. addition to not being a criminal. mastermind, Speck isn't [music].

tall, dark, or handsome. And he doesn't. have resources to get his hands on a. boat or even to charm or lure three. victims aboard a boat. I will admit that. it's a little intriguing that he worked. as what the Chicago History Museum calls. a {quote} {unquote} apprentice seaman, but I won't waste any of your time on. him. Like at the end of the day, it is. decided by all that this is just an. intriguing coincidence [music] and. nothing more. So, the next theory that comes up, it. might even be more of a stretch, I guess.

is what I should say. And [music] it all. starts with this guy named Dick Whaley, who according to the New York Daily News. was supposedly the first reporter on the. scene the morning that the women were. reported missing. Now, he only covered. the case briefly. It's not like [music]. he was deeply involved. And within a few. years of the disappearances, he quit. journalism altogether and jumped into a. career in law enforcement down in. Florida. [music]. But he couldn't get the disappearances. out of his mind. Like they became his. own personal Roman Empire, if you will.

So, Dick Whaley believes. Are you ready for this? I'll answer it. for you, no you're not. He believes that the women died aboard. an abortion boat. A what? Whaley is. absolutely certain that the. disappearances can be traced back to an. abortion boat. >> You just keep repeating that like it's. going to make more sense the second time. around. What the. is an abortion boat? It's exactly what. it sounds like. He He says it's a boat. on Lake Michigan where illicit abortions.

are performed. Is that a real thing? If. you ask Dick Wylie, yes. And the theory he has behind this. abortion boat is wild. Now, we know that. Anne may have been pregnant and that. Patricia may have been seeing a married. guy, right? >> Mhm. Well, Wylie posits, what if Anne and Patricia were both. pregnant by married men? Nothing to back. this up, I assume. Just kind of a. combining of their two possible. scenarios? It seems that way. I like.

like he doesn't give any explanation. other than like a what if. >> Okay. I'm not sure how or why, but. basically he just says that in the. course of his personal investigation, he. learns that that's the situation. [music] Now, he says that puts them both. in a pickle because it was 1960 whatever. and years before Roe v. Wade gave us, you know, brief bodily autonomy before. controlling women became everyone's. [music] top priority again. And we've. already talked about what a moral stain. out of wedlock pregnancies were back. then. And in all seriousness, back alley.

abortions absolutely were a thing in. 1966. Botched back alley abortions were, too. So, basically Wylie believes that. there was this married couple operating. an illicit abortion clinic in Gary, Indiana. For those of you who don't. know, that's what like on the coast of. Lake Michigan near Chicago and the. Indiana Dunes. So, like right in that. area. >> Can we prove that that part is real? That this duo and their clinic? >> had the same question. Google couldn't. tell me, so I reached out to the Indiana. State Police. They were were super duper.

helpful and they confirmed that the. couple he's talking about was a real. couple. Their names are known by police. But, as far as the whole illicit. abortion operation part of it goes, police don't know. They say that they. have never been able to substantiate. [music]. that part of Wylie's story. But, the. story goes that one of the women's. procedures went south. Either Anne or. Patricia, they died. And with this being. an illegal enterprise, the other two had. to just be disposed of.

>> Is he saying that they did this. procedure on the. boat? Like or like the boat that picked. them up and was supposed to take them to. where the abortion would happen. >> Well, so okay, so supposedly that young. dark handsome captain was actually this. couple's relative. And the thought is. that he escorted them to a larger boat. And remember if you like a couple of. witnesses saw them on [clears throat] a. larger boat? And the thinking is maybe. like that's where the procedures. happened or were supposed to have. happened. Where is Wylie getting all. this from?

>> This is the thing, we don't know. And we. tried to get to the bottom of it, believe me, because all you got to do is. spend a few minutes on Google to realize. like how wide this theory has spread. Not so much in traditional reporting, more like in blogs and on web forums and. all of that stuff. And so of course we. thought like, okay, what better way to. evaluate these claims than to go. straight to the source. >> Mhm. I mean, Dick Wylie is still alive. and kicking. So we did our damndest to.

talk to him about this case. Our. reporter Courtney was like straight up. giddy at the prospect of interviewing. him. And she reached out to him on. Facebook. She called every number she. could find. No dice. Like there was one. person she even got on the phone. We got. like a very like gruff wrong number. before they hang up. So all we know is. that he claims to have interviewed more. people more times and with more tenacity. than the actual investigators, he says. And based on those interviews, this is. what he has uncovered. But the more we.

dug in, the more it seems like all roads. on the abortion theory just lead back to. Wylie himself. Like this man talks a big. game. There is no doubt about that. But. I don't know if he actually has. the work to show like show your math, right? Like how did you get the answer? I I think he's been able to do that. And. he supposedly had plans to publish a. book on this case like since the early. aughts. There's even an Amazon listing. for it still. It's called Life and Death. Through the Lens. And it had like a.

publication date way back in 2004, I. think. Except the book is not available. Not on Amazon, not anywhere else in the. worldwide web that we could find. And. there is a 2012 New York Daily News. interview with Wylie that references a. 120,000 [music]. word manuscript. But here we are like 13. years later and that manuscript has yet. to see the light of day. So, if you're going to believe this theory, you just have to like take him at his. word. And his word, like I don't know, I.

think it it it bears emphasizing that. Wylie seems to be blessed with a very. active imagination. His Facebook persona, for example, is. like very much conspiracy-obsessed angry. grandpa who posts like in all caps. Cool. And you know, your girl loves like. a good conspiracy theory. Like that's my. jam. It's who I intend on being a little. bit when I'm older. But I also don't. want to sugarcoat the fact that his. posts get really ugly at times, to put. it mildly. And the man specifically.

seems to have a mild fixation on. reproductive rights in general, which I. think is relevant [music] considering. his theory. And I I have to give you. just a little bit of context. So, I. printed out one of his posts. This is. one of his public posts that he made on. May 9th, [music]. 2021. It's made of his own hand. Just so you know, I'm thrilled about. having my voice recording this. >> [laughter]. >> Okay, this post is in all caps. >> Literally. Want to wish all mothers a.

last Mother's Day. Yes, I said last. Mother's Day. Just now, over TV, the name has been. changed to Birthing Person Day. I hope. all you women {slash} mothers see the. respect the Democrats have for your kind. of devotion to America's youth. Let me. be one of the first to announce support. for renaming all abortion centers, abortion doctors, >> [music]. >> and Planned Parenthood groups killing. centers from this day forward as a last. vestige of true patriotic Americanism. Our mothers. Yesterday, my dear Aunt.

Shirley was buried at 90 years old. The. devoted mother to four wonderful. children and the surrogate mother of. more than 30 foster children in her busy. lifetime. She was more than a birthing. person. She was God's angel sent to. Earth to become a mother, not to be a. murderer of children or killing centers. where confused women go who don't have. the ability to be a mother. Thank God. she was already in heaven today and. didn't have to bear being demoted from a.

truly loving mother to just another. person the Democrats can add to their. voter rolls as a person. Sort of like. changing the name applied to an illegal. criminal alien to a poor undocumented. person. [music]. Wow, Ashley. What? And listen. >> [laughter]. >> Not to make this episode about Wylie or. getting like to extreme ends of like. either side or getting people fired up. Like, I don't know. I'm having a hard. time holding my tongue these days, you. guys. I got to say [clears throat] like. this inflammatory.

like I think we're all over it, right? Like everyone's working to divide us as. a people because the truth is we're. stronger together. And if we're. distracted by issues like what things. are called, like we can't come together. on issues that matter. Like who gives a. flying. what the day is called. It's not hurting. anybody. It doesn't take away from me. I'm a mom. Like live your own life. Worry about your own damn self. Like if. it makes someone like feel included, great. Why would I care? I care about. things that actually affect my life, my.

daughter's life. Like the fact that. insurance companies are like us over. right and left and basic health care. isn't considered a human right. I also. don't care if it's called the Gulf of. Mexico or the Gulf of America or the. Gulf of. whatever. And while we're on the topic. of meaningless rhetoric intended to like. pit people against each other, there is. even a proposed resolution in the house. right now that expresses support for. pro-women's health centers. Like I. posted about this, I don't know if you. saw it. And I [ __ ] you not, it says that. like these health care centers are.

supposed to address the needs of men. For women's health care should address. the needs of men. And who by the way is. Wiley? Is like that's who we're worried. about. Like. >> Right. Right. Anyways, >> [music]. >> so I know I got a little sidetracked, but I wanted to show you who Wiley is. while also saying like Give us some. perspective and I wanted to show you who. he was with but also saying like let's. not let the thing that Wiley said take. over this episode. Like I swear to God. if all the comments on this episode. become about Mother's Day, I'm going to. quit. So like I need everyone to stay. focused.

So to bring it back to Dick Wiley, that's who he is. He hasn't shown any. proof of his findings that could be. verified by other journalists or police. While his theory might be one of the. loudest ones on the internet, it is not. the only one. Because what if I told you. that there is another theory out there, one that is every bit as wild, every bit. as fantastical, every bit as. conspiratorial? And it is the one that seems the most.

likely to be true. Now to explain this. theory, I need to tell you a little bit. more about Ann Patricia and Renee and. their shared love of horses. I know, you're a horse girl. I'm in. In fact, the Chicago Tribune reports that while. Patricia and Renee had been high school. classmates, Patricia met Ann at the Oak. Brook Polo Club where they both boarded. their riding horses. And Ann also worked. there. In fact, at the time of the. disappearances, Patricia owned a. racehorse named Hank and he was one of.

the biggest reasons that her dad Harold. never like bought into the idea that the. women would have like gone off on their. own. Even if all of the other weird [ __ ]. could be explained away, which it can't, so like there's so much that doesn't. make sense. Harold knew that his. daughter would not abandon Hank. It. wasn't possible. It was something that. he said over and over and over again, including to Sergeant Burke. Like she. would never have left that horse behind. You guys know how much I like Charlie. Charlie's like my mini horse. That's how.

I feel. I just say I am a horse girl. I. grew up with a horse that I would have. never, in a million years, left behind. for anything. He was my baby. >> girls are next level, too. So, anyway, so remember how I told you to put a pin. in the women's personal problems? Yes. Okay. So, Renee's were the marital. issues that we know, and was this. potential pregnancy. And I think Patricia's had to do with. the wide world of horse racing.

So, when her sister Janice sat with. Dateline for an interview in 2023, she. talked about some weird stuff going on. with Patricia at the time leading up to. her disappearance. Like how she was. acting strangely the day before she. disappeared, scared even. Although. Janice didn't elaborate. She also. described this conversation they had had. recently or like before they went. missing. And Patricia was crying, which. alone is super out of character. Now, some people are cryers, some people. aren't, and Patricia was not. And she.

told Janice that she was in a lot of. trouble. Janice's mind immediately went. to the married boyfriend we know that. she might have had. So, she asked if she. was pregnant. >> Don't tell Dick Wiley. >> I know. But according to Janice, she. wasn't pregnant. That's not it. Whatever. it was was worse in her mind than that. because her response was quote, "I wish. it was that easy.". >> Which is saying a lot in 1966. >> I know. And Janice wasn't the only. person close to Patricia who noticed.

something was off before she. disappeared. A friend of hers had told. Sergeant Burke's team way back at the. beginning of the investigation about. this weird situation in March of that. year when Patricia had some sort of like. bruising on her face. And the friend was. [music] like, "WTF, what actually. happened to your face?" I mean, it. looked like she got straight-up clocked. And according to the Chicago Tribune, Patricia said that she was in trouble. with some {quote} "syndicate people.". Like the mob? This is where the horse. mob comes in. So, get this.

And I'm going to give you a little. backstory for just a sec, but I promise. we are like coming back around and. you're going to want to know this. So, apparently, the 1960s equestrian scene. in Chicago was run by a rough crowd. known as the horse syndicate. And at the. center of this horse syndicate was a man. by the name of Silas Jayne. Silas had been playing fast [music] and. loose in the industry since the late. 1930s when he opened a place called the. Green Tree Stables and embarked on a. long and storied career of lying,

cheating, and stealing his way to the. top. And defending his interests by any. means necessary, including, possibly, by. ordering a hit on one of the nation's. wealthiest heiresses in 1977, by the. way. Now, most of his brothers were cut from. the same cloth, but one of them wasn't. His much younger half-brother, George. And that infuriated Silas. By 1952, according to the Chicago Tribune. magazine, George had also joined the.

stable business. And the thing was, whereas Silas made his money kind of in. the shadows, George made his by being a. generally competent business owner. And. now that the brothers were competitors, that was something Silas just could not. have, which led to poor George having. some seriously bad luck. Like in 1952, when his house went up in flames for who. knows what reason while he and his. family were out of town. Brotherly. relations took an especially dark turn. after George's horse beat Silas's horse.

at a jumping competition in the early. 1960s, and before he knew it, it wasn't. just George's property at risk. A hit. was carried out on one of his best. horses, and George himself was surviving. brushes with death damn near on the. weekly. Everywhere he went, someone was. trying to run him off the road or blow. up his house. Like no joke, one day he. and his wife found dynamite affixed to. their back door, and it had actually. fizzled out before it could cause any. damage, but clearly a message was trying.

to be sent, clearly by Silas, and George. wasn't getting it. Now, 1965. is when really hit the fan. By this point, George owned Tricolor. Riding Stables, and one day in June of. that year, George asked one of his. employees, a 22-year-old named Cheryl. Lynn Rude, to move his car for him. So, she hopped into the driver seat, turns. the key in the ignition, which is when. the car exploded in spectacular fashion. It had been rigged with dynamite,

[music] which meant that George had just. survived his most dramatic brush with. death yet. But Cheryl wasn't so. fortunate. She was killed instantly, and. for once in his life, Silas came so. close to paying for it when. investigators convinced his hired. henchman to turn state's evidence. But. fast forward to March of 1966, on the. eve of Silas's trial on conspiracy. charges, the whole case gets dropped. when the prosecution's star witness, one.

of Silas's henchman, was struck with. what the Chicago Tribune magazine. reporters called a quote baffling attack. of amnesia. Now, this is where the women. come back in. So, March of '66 is when. Patricia had a busted face, the one that. had to do with the trouble that she was. in with some syndicate people. And by. the way, no one questions that the women. were acquainted with these guys. We know. for a fact all three women rode at. George's stables, and Indiana State. Police confirmed that for us. But is.

Silas the married man or George? I don't. get why the women are made to disappear. in July of '66. >> No, so I I I don't think that either of. them were Patricia's paramour. I think. the guy she was dating was like another. shady character in the horse scene, like. not even related. And we don't know for. sure why someone would have hit her or. threatened her or whatever, but there is. one possible and like the prevailing. theory that I've seen come from the. Chicago Tribune magazine. And it comes. from a quote by retired Sergeant Fred.

Miller of the Westchester PD. What he. says is that there was always a strong. suspicion that their disappearances had. something to do with the car bombing. Namely, that maybe one or more of the. women overheard something or knew. something about that, and that is what. led to their deaths. >> But you think that something would have. happened to them like before the trial. was set to start in March. Yeah, I but I. guess it depends on maybe what they knew. and why or how they knew it. Like I.

think there's a world where their. importance as potential witnesses only. increased once Silas's conspirators were. scared into submission, maybe. Like I. don't quite know. And that's just. speculation on my part, but I think it's. like maybe the best theory because Well, get this. So, among all of the. belongings left behind, and I'm talking. about the women's on the beach, investigators found not only George's. phone number, but also a phone number. for Silas's wife Martha. So, like I. mean, clearly like they have those for a. reason. And by the way, guess who owned.

a blue and white powerboat. Well, actually I don't know exactly who, but like I don't I don't have a name, which would be really helpful right now, I know. But I know that a man, an. unnamed man, who was reported to have. like supposedly once worked for Silas. did own one. And supposedly this boat. that he supposedly owned he often took. to the Indiana Dunes. Did they find this. supposed boat? >> No, they wish. Like the guy's wife told. them that that boat got destroyed in a.

fire, which leads me to the last kernel of. information that we were able to glean. from ISP. They say that as of December. 2024, so like 5 minutes ago, >> Yeah. they no longer dismiss the. possibility that the boat wreckage that. washed ashore way back in 1966 was. related to the women's disappearances. So much for that whole like. spontaneously combusting rowboat thing. >> Right. And I wish I could wrap this. story up with a pretty bow, but what. that leaves us with are family members.

like Patricia's sister Janice, who are. running out of time to learn the truth. about what happened to their loved ones. way back in 1966. So, if you have any information about. what happened that day on the shores of. Lake Michigan, please contact the. Westchester Police Department at. 708-345-0060. And if you are as offended as I am by. House Resolution 7, head on over to. congress.gov/contact-us.

to find your representative's contact. information and tell them that women's. health care should be about women. Novel. concept, right? You can find all the source material for. this episode on our website [music]. crimejunkiepodcast.com. And you can follow us on Instagram. @crimejunkiepodcast. >> We'll be back with another video. episode, but don't [music] forget we. have hundreds of podcast episodes. Just. search for Crime Junkie wherever you get. your podcasts.

The story I have for you today is wild. It has art world drama, it has. mysterious telegrams, a snowstorm, ransom plots. This is the story of. Jennette Bishop May and Gabriella. Guerin. On the morning of Sunday, November 30th,

1980, snow is falling in Sarnano, Italy. It's this medieval hilltop village. turned ski resort tucked into the base. of a mountain range. The kind of place. that looks like something out of a fairy. tale almost. I think my daughter would. call it Arendelle, essentially. [laughter]. But this isn't a picturesque blanket of. snow that we're talking about. Right. now, there is a full-on [music]. snowstorm. One that is worrying a local. surveyor. This guy named Nazareno. Vinanzi. And he's worried because just.

the day before, so that would have been. Saturday, November 29th, two women. walked into his office to hire him for a. project. And in conversation and over. snacks as they like went about their. stuff and talked about what they were. doing, it came up that they were planning to. take a drive up into the mountains later. that afternoon, which he was like, "Absolutely not a good idea because of. the impending snowstorm.". But he was afraid that maybe they hadn't. listened because after they left, he. expected to hear from them again. But it was now 24 hours later,

full storm here now, and he hasn't heard. from them. And are these two like locals. who would be used to the weather, know. what to expect? >> So, one is and one isn't. 40-year-old. Jennette Bishop May, she lives in London. normally, but she just bought a country. house nearby. She was trying to line up. contractors and stuff for a renovation, that's actually why they were meeting. with the surveyor. But her friend with. her, 39-year-old Gabriella Guerin, she. lives in Italy. Like not this part. exactly, but she is there with Jennette. to translate for her. So, when the.

surveyor guy starts getting nervous, he. starts making calls. First to the. boarding house where he knew that the. women had been staying. >> [music]. >> and they confirm his fears. The owner. says that the women never came back the. night before. So then he tries the man. who sold Janette her house. Maybe, just. maybe she decided to spend the night at. her new place. But he says no and he. adds that Janette actually asked to meet. him yesterday, but then she never showed. up. So now Nazareno's really [music].

worried and so he goes straight to. police and reports Janette and Gabriella. missing. And at first police are. probably thinking the same as most. people probably would, right? Two women. unfamiliar with the area, they drive. into a mountain snowstorm and they get. [music] stuck. Maybe they lost their. way, maybe they pulled over to wait it. out. Now, when they're reported missing, like the storm is still raging. So they. can't do anything in that instant, but. as soon as it calms down a little bit, police launch [music] a full search. effort. We're talking helicopter, dogs, ski patrol, volunteers, like they're all.

scouring the mountain for these women or. even their car, which is this small dark. colored hatchback with license plates. from a city called Sienna. And Sienna is. about 3 hours away. So a car with those. plates. would kind of stand out here, right? It's not like they're unheard of, but. like easier to look for. >> For sure. And at the same time. investigators start piecing together the. women's last known movements. And some of it tracks, right? Like. witnesses report seeing their car. heading down toward the mountain [music]. at around 1 p.m., which was like right.

after Nazareno said that they left. But. then either they changed their minds or. they went up the mountain and came back. and like it was just like a quick trip. because somebody sees them again at 4:15. in town. And it's this employee of a. construction store and he knows it was. them at 4:15 because he actually saw. them earlier with that surveyor. They. had like come in to pay an invoice. But. the interesting thing is that he says at. 4:15. Janette is wearing different clothing. than she was before. So I I know that.

that means they did or didn't go up the. mountain. Like I said, it would have. been a short trip. >> But, if she changed, she at some point. in time had to go back to like where. they were staying to change her clothes. >> Correct. The thing is though, we don't. have any sightings of them between 1:00. and 4:15. Especially, like we don't have. anyone at the boarding house who saw. them in that time. There are, however, people who saw them after that. Witnesses remember seeing them heading. to their rooms, and they remember seeing.

their car parked out front of the. boarding house at around 5:00 p.m. And. this is notable because this is about. when the street lights come on. And. around this same time, they see the. women actually like driving away from. the boarding house. So, like we know. they're there after 4:00. We know at. 5:00 they're driving away. But, we don't. know where they go [music] at 5:00. There aren't any other sightings of them. or their car for the next 2-plus hours. until around 7:20 [music] p.m. when. their car is seen heading downhill from.

the town center [music] with two people. inside. Why would they wait until 7:20. to leave then and go to the mountain? Presumably, like this is happening in a. snowstorm. Right. And it makes you think. that they didn't go before, cuz if you. did, then why would you go back in a. snowstorm? Right. And listen, I don't. know for sure if they were going to the. mountain at that time. >> you said, they could have gone up and. come back already. >> Right. Like the way it works is you have. to like go down the hill to like the. base and then go up into it. So, just. cuz they were going down doesn't mean. they were, but it's kind of like the. assumption everyone is making. And to.

your point, it makes no sense to do that. when the storm is like beginning. Like. you know you're going to be putting. yourself in a bad spot. Like you're. already warned at 12:45 when you leave, don't do it. Why would you do it at. 7:20? So, police don't know where they were. going, if it was even them. But, in all. this time that they're searching, there. is still no sign of Janette, Gabriella, or their car. And by this time, it's. Sunday afternoon, and the storm is. picking back up. So, the mountain search.

is temporarily called off. Now, it's. around this time that Jeannette's. husband, [music] Steven, arrives in. town. Now, he's been notified about her. disappearance. He's ready to help any. way he can, [music] starting with more. background on his wife, who turns out is. the ex-wife of Evelyn de Rothschild, one. of the richest men in the world at the. time. Jeannette and Evelyn met when. Jeannette was a model, and they were. married for 5 years. That's actually how. Jeannette and Gabriella met. Gabriella. worked as a cook for the Rothschilds in.

the UK. And even after Jeannette and. Evelyn divorced in 1971, Jeannette and. Gabriella stayed close. So close even. that Jeannette is the godmother of. Gabriella's daughter. And then, Jeannette met Steven a few. years after her divorce, and then they. got married in 1977. Now, Jeannette's. mom said in an interview with The. Evening Standard that her and Evelyn's. relationship post-divorce was amicable. So, if she had enemies, they probably. weren't in her past marriage, right?

But, her being the ex-wife of a. Rothschild is enough to draw attention. and set off a media frenzy, because. abductions for ransom are happening all. over Italy at this point. I mean, like a lot of people know about John. Paul Getty, >> Right. but I had no idea that between. the 1960s and the 1990s, over 700 people. were abducted by organized crime. syndicates. Yeah, in Italy, and they. were held for ransom. So, if someone thought a member of the. Rothschild family was alone in a small.

town village, like that is a potential. goldmine for the wrong person. I mean, and you're not even going to believe. this. So, just a year before this, a. British businessman named Rothschild. was abducted in Italy by criminals who. thought that his name was Rothschild. I. mean, you truly can't even. make that up. I know. [laughter] But the. all that to say, would they even know. that she like at one point in time was a. Rothschild? She hasn't been married to.

one in years, and you can't like Google. her right now. >> Yeah, not just like her walking down the. street or something, but her passport. still says Janette de Rothschild with It. just has like this note that she now. uses the last name May. So, the thinking. is I I believe that if someone would. have seen documentation, right? She. checks in somewhere, somehow they see. her passport, like that's a dead. giveaway. >> Okay, well, um if this is. a ransom abduction, there has to be a. ransom demand. Like has that happened? >> No, that's the thing. It hasn't.

>> [music]. >> And from the jump, Steven's not even. buying this theory. He says that he and. Janette lived comfortably, but they. weren't as wealthy as people might. think. I mean, he works in HR at a. department store. And according to Town. & Country magazine, Janette's divorce. settlement from Evelyn had been modest. Like she got a home in London, and then. a small investment fund. And since then, she's like built a career as an interior. designer, like an antique stealer. >> Okay, but all of that is kind of. internal knowledge, right? Like it's. totally possible for someone to see her.

passport, realize who she is or who she. was married to, and think that she's a. lot wealthier than she actually is. Right. Again, like Steven's saying it. doesn't make sense for them, but I think. the whole point is like if someone. thought she was connected to someone. else still. >> Right, it still could be like something. that someone thought and acted on. Well, and it's especially believable when a. new witness comes forward. He says that. he saw two cars at around 4:00 p.m. on. Sunday. So, this is the day after they. go missing. And he sees them in a town. about 10 minutes outside of Sarnano. He.

said the first car was a bigger car with. Siena plates, and there were two people. inside. One of them looked like a woman. The other person he couldn't tell. And. then the second car was a small, dark. hatchback, also with Siena plates, and. like that matches up with what Janette's. car was. And that car also had two. people inside and one of them looked. like Janette. So, we talked about this a. little bit, but are Sienna plates really. that out of the ordinary like in this.

region? I'm thinking about like seeing a. Michigan plate or a New York plate or an. Ohio plate here in Indiana. It's And. it's a ton, but it's not unheard of. Yeah, and it is a ski resort. So, like. one or two cars with Sienna plates like. it's probably not a big deal. But I. think it's just the fact that they're. seeing them like together, they're. seeing the hatchback, like it's all it's. all the things. And there are a few. people in Saranac that start recalling. this same thing. That in the days before. and after the women disappeared, there. were a lot of cars with Sienna plates. So, it must have been like more than.

usual. Enough that it raises eyebrows. Now, police can't link any of those. specifically like to any of this, but it. kind of gets them thinking. So, what if. Janette and Gabriella. were in two separate cars? Like not that. they brought two cars, but like that. that sighting was real. Like. did someone follow them? Did someone. come like who. >> get separated somehow? Yeah, but. basically and if that sighting's legit. and you combine it with everything else. that stood out to an investigator we. spoke to, like them missing the meeting.

with the homeowner and possibly going to. the mountains more than once, then maybe. this wasn't just a wrong turn in a. snowstorm. Maybe, now they're thinking, they were taken against their will. Did. they ever fully search the boarding. house where the women were staying? Like. was anything missing? So, from what I. like I saw, it like doesn't look from. like what police can tell that anything. had been disturbed. I don't know how. much they actually tore it apart though. and like did a detail search. I get the.

sense it wasn't very much because. something interesting is found there. that like doesn't come to their. attention until December 4th when Steven. finds it. And what he finds in their. room was this handwritten note. seemingly written by Jeanette. And it lists a few phone numbers and it. has a line that just says, "Please do not hesitate.". Hesitate to do what? Yeah, so I I I've.

gone in circles with so many things on. this. This is one of them. One of our. writers I was talking to thought that. maybe it was like a note for the front. desk. Like, "Hey, if these people call, like don't hesitate to. >> Like approved numbers. >> Yeah, but A, why would it be with the. front desk is my question. B, even if it was going to be given to. the front desk, like it just hadn't yet, wouldn't you put someone's name and not. the number? Like if this person calls. >> What if it's like the opposite? Like. maybe don't hesitate to reach out to. these people. for in case of emergency? I don't know.

>> Exactly. Like reach out to them for like. It doesn't give enough information. Like. and it doesn't add up. Doesn't even make. more sense after they find out who those. numbers belong to. I guess one was to a. beach club 2 hours south of Rome and the. others went to like three different men. who they were able to or they were at. least able to find two of them that I. know of. And it doesn't seem like any of. them have anything to do with any of. this. >> Mhm. And it doesn't seem like any of the. numbers or people connected to the. numbers get tied to an incoming telegram.

that gets delivered to the boarding. house from Rome shortly after. So, this. telegram is addressed to someone named. Jeanine May. And this is where things. get so weird. I mean cuz right off the bat, like the. telegram itself is strange. Like it. feels like it's for Jeanette May, but as. far as police know, nobody calls her. Jeanine. So, like where did that come.

from? >> Yeah, that's off already. All this thing. says is, "I am waiting for you.". And then it's followed by a Roma dress. and it's signed by someone named Roland. And is this address a house, a a. business. Does it Does it exist at all? Yeah, I. know. So, this is where things get super. weird. Not only does the address exist, they don't even have to look up the. address to know that it exists. >> They know it. Because the address is. already on their radar in connection to.

another crime. On December 3rd, so a couple of days. after the women disappeared, but before. that Janine May telegram was [music]. received, another mysterious telegram. was the center of an investigation. unfolding in Rome. This one was sent to a director of the. famous auction house Christie's at its. Rome headquarters. And it said something. like, "Recovery is possible." And then. it directs them to the address that was.

on the Janine May telegram. But this one. was signed by someone named Rodrigo. Okay, but recovery of what is possible? Probably art. At least that's what. police think because. >> Because of Christie's. Yeah, and because. the night after Janette and Gabriella. went missing, there was a major art. theft at Christie's in Rome. Like things. are feeling like a little backwards, but. art probably. Wait, so. these two women were somehow tied up in. an art theft operation? Is that what. you're saying? >> I don't know if they're tied up in it.

necessarily, but it sure like seems like. the two events have to be connected in. some way, right? Right, we have this. address. >> Same one being used. I mean that alone. is enough to sell me on it, but on top. of that, it turns out that Janette does. have some connections to the art world. through her interior design work. So, it's not like it was a completely. foreign, right? Like it's not like if. all of a sudden people are like asking. for ransom and tying me to the art. world. Like. >> [laughter]. >> But then things get more complicated. because while police are trying to wrap.

their heads around a connection between. these two telegrams, they learn that. three more have been sent to families of. prominent people who have been abducted. in Rome. And again, they instruct them. to go to that same address [music] in. all of them. And. they were addressed to the family. members telling them again, specifically. to go to this address or was it like. Janette's where it was like addressed to. >> go. So, I know one of them was addressed.

to the family members. I don't know. about the other two. So, I know one is. different than Janette's. I don't know. about the other ones. >> And it's weird because like they when I. say ransom, they weren't even making. straight-up ransom demands. They were. actually like more similar to the. Christie's telegram saying like go to. this place if you want answers kind of. thing. [music]. And I don't know if those families went. to the address or what happened if they. did. I just know that one of the people. who'd been abducted, this industrialist,

is eventually found dead. He had been. shot in the head even after part of the. $450,000. ransom had been paid. The other two. people, however, did eventually get. released. But police are probably. feeling like time is running out to. track down whoever sent these telegrams. Like how dangerous are these people? Now, they're able to figure out the. addresses that the telegrams were. supposedly sent from. [music]. And there are like a couple of different. from addresses. But surprise, surprise,

when they look it up, they're able to. figure out that the addresses that the. telegrams were supposedly sent from cuz. they're like they're from address, there. were a couple different ones. They were. different like numbers but all on the. same street. They don't exist. >> Or like the numbers don't. The street. itself, though, does exist. And so. police obviously like search it except. they don't find anything or like find. anyone who knows about like the person. who would have sent this. Except when. they're doing this like canvassing, they. do find, interestingly, that another.

director who works for Christie's art. house or auction house. actually lives on that street. >> Oh. Yeah, which is. you know, a huge red flag. And police. search his apartment, where they find. illegal firearms, they find narcotics. They also search his girlfriend's place, and according to Corriere della Sera, there they find a diagram of Christie's. alarm system. So, it's looking more and. more likely that this director may have.

sent the telegram to the other director, as well as maybe even planned that. heist. But, even like with all the weird. things they collect, apparently there's. nothing concrete to prove that this guy. was [music]. involved, and none of the art that was. taken is ever recovered. So, they can't. tie this director to any of the. telegrams or the ransom plots, either. And even though police do arrest him, he. is eventually released. And all the while, police are still.

wondering if he has any connection to. Gabriella and Jeanette's disappearance. I feel like the key to all of this is. this address that everyone was told to. go to. >> like that it was involved in all the. telegrams. Which I told you was real. Yes, okay. So, when they go to this. address, it does not disappoint. According to the Manchester Evening. News, they find at this address a group. of South Americans living there. One of. whom is a woman out on bail who had been.

charged in 1976 with abducting an. ambassador to Rome. Oh. >> I know, like kind of the thing we're. looking into. Yeah. So, she and everyone. else in the apartment end up getting. arrested when they find like narcotics. in the place, right? They can't tie them. to the abductions, yes, but they like. Any connection to the Christie's. director with narcotics at the other. address? No, so like Different, okay. Well, I don't know that it's different, but I just know they didn't find any. connection to him. Like except for the telegrams. Like. But on paper, no. No connection except.

for all the connections. Got it. >> Right. So, but when police start digging. into the people who live there, they. uncover this whole other layer. So, they. learn that two people in the apartment. had some kind of beef with another. woman, and that she might have sent the. telegrams to set them up. Like she knew. police would investigate and that they. would get raided. >> Okay, but you got to be real lucky if. you just like. guess addresses that tie back to the. street where the connections lived, and. that guy also turns out to be shady.

Like that's a lot. I agree. I I will say sometimes things can be. stranger than fiction because when they. start like going down this road and. looking into this woman, what they see is that the Peruvian. embassy was on the same street as that. like shady Christie's director, and this. woman that they suspect was the sender. was from Peru. So, they're like, I mean, it's a street she.

would have been familiar with. >> Or she's connected to the guy, too. Two. birds, one stone. Police don't think so. They think that she probably saw these. big cases in the news and took advantage. of that because she had some kind of axe. to grind. [music]. And police just write it off. Like just. like that. I mean, So, >> [laughter]. >> just to recap what they're writing off. >> Mhm. Finding a known kidnapper at the address. that the telegrams referenced. Mhm. Finding a director of the auction house.

where the heist like where the heist. happened on the same street as the other. address referenced. Mhm. Oh. I. All coincidence. I'm having trouble I. know. like processing that many. coincidences. I know. But police now are of the mindset that. the telegrams were just some kind of. hoax. And so they put that line of. investigation to the side. And maybe. because at that point they have a. bigger, better lead.

Almost 3 weeks after Jennette and. Gabriella went missing, we are now. December 18th, the women's car is found. It's spotted by police on a snowy. roadside about 20 to 30 minutes from the. boarding [music] house. And truthfully, I don't even think they know it's a car. at first. Like it's almost completely. buried under a pile of snow. There's. just like this part of it that was. reflecting the sun, which is what caught. police's eye when they were up in a. helicopter. But when search teams dig it. out, they know for sure it is Jennette. and Gabriella's car.

Doors are locked, but they can still see. the keys inside along with some. valuables. The car is in neutral with. the handbrake pulled, and when they. later examine it, the car is totally. fine and working. And importantly, when. they got to it, they noticed that the. wheels are on top of asphalt, not a like. huge layer of snow, which means that. whoever drove it was driving on a at. least clearish road. They stopped. intentionally on that road and left it.

there before the storm came down. And is this like up the mountain or like. down in the valley? Like on the way? Okay. Yeah, so it's up a mountain road. about 4 miles or like 12 minutes from. the closest town. And not too far from. where they were staying. So, okay, the car is parked on again, clearish road at least. If it wasn't. snowing so bad, why would they stop? I don't know. And I.

mean, I should clarify. Like just. because like they're not on top of a ton. of snow, doesn't mean that it wasn't. getting bad. Well, but you I mean, you. know, we're in Indiana. Like it takes a. minute for for ground to actually freeze. up hard enough to hold snow, especially. on a road that's being driven. So really. like what police are thinking is that. they pulled over because it was getting. really bad. In my mind it had to have. been really bad for them not to be able. to go 12 minutes back to like the. nearest town. You know what I mean? But. they talked to some workers who say that. they got stuck in a snowbank on the same. day that the same women went missing.

near where Gabriella and Jeanette's car. was found. Police think that [music]. like they saw it getting bad, they like. stopped, they pulled over to kind of. like wait it out cuz you are in a. mountain. Maybe you don't want to like. drive down in whiteout conditions. I. mean fair. >> But then why leave their fully. functioning car to venture out into the. snow? You and I are super familiar with. snow. You don't just like get out of a. car to wander, to go someplace to like. maybe find something TBD. I know. So [music]. yes, like I understand that sitting and.

waiting kind of. If they decided to go. in what is a snowstorm, they're 12. minutes away from the nearest town. because. not too far off the road. It's like a. short walk from where the car is parked. Police end up finding this house. So. they learn that the owner of the house. used it as a place for shepherds to stay. during the summer, which is like. a line straight out of the Bible. >> [laughter]. >> But in the winter, it's typically empty. And the house owner even confirms that.

it should have been empty that. November/December because repairs were. being done on it. Except when police go. to this house, they search the house, there were signs that someone had been. there recently. Like the fireplace is. full of ashes and there's burnt. furniture and there are used plates and. silverware. Are there any like. fingerprints or DNA? So there's actually a note about them. finding unknown fingerprints in the car. that they sent off to agencies across.

Italy as like I mean they sent Interpol, Scotland Yard, all of that. And they. never say if anything comes of that. Though I know Jeanette actually borrowed. the car from a guy, could be his, blah. blah blah. All that to say, they never. say anything about Prince in the house, which I think is kind of weird because I. know they searched it pretty well. Like. enough that they did find hair in the. bathroom that they think might belong to. Janette or to Gabriella. >> Mhm. But in 1980, it's not like they can. say for sure it's theirs with DNA. They're just doing like a visual. comparison. >> Yeah, maybe under a microscope or.

something. So they think that the women. had been there. Like again, they pull over, they go to. this house. They even think that maybe. they tried to signal for help by. lighting fire on the balcony because. they found burnt wood out there, too. Which how would all the searchers miss. that? Well, from what I can tell, this. house is in a remote spot. and I think it got buried in snow during. the storm. Like I don't even know how. long a fire outside would have lasted. Okay, but there's fire inside, too. There You said there's like ashes there,

like smoke from the fireplace inside. >> Yeah, but if you remember, like they. don't start the search right away and. even when they do, they have to call it. off for a little bit because the storm. like picks up again. And so like maybe, I don't know, I'm just guessing, but. like maybe like when there is a fire. going on, there's no helicopters to see. the smoke, no one out there to see the. smoke and then by the time that second. storm passes through, like everything's. buried in snow, you're not setting fires. on anything. >> Mhm. So because they're not there, then. police wonder like, "Okay, did you see.

that like all your options for like. sending for help are gone?" [music]. Did they possibly try to venture out on. their own like to one of those nearby. towns, right? Car's buried, can't use. that. So they go to this like other. local town, which is another ski resort, to try and piece together what other. locals might have seen. But that. honestly ends up muddying the waters. even more. because no one reports seeing Janette. and Gabriella after the storm. Instead, there are even more reported. sightings from the day they disappeared.

Two hunters tell police that around 3:00. p.m. that day, they saw three people, two that they think were women, standing. near a dark-colored car close to where. their car ends up being found. And then, the manager of a hotel in town claims. that he saw Jeanette and Gabriella three. times that same day between 10:00 a.m. and 2:00 p.m. when they came into his. hotel for a drink. And when they left, the manager noticed Jeanette speaking to. a man outside in a car. Now, I don't.

have a full description of this guy, but. Generale Carlo Felice Corsetti. That is a mouthful, but he was an. original investigator on the case. Told. us that the manager described this guy. as well-dressed in a way that stood out. to him. So, we've got that. And then. around 8:00 p.m., the manager was. driving down the mountain to Sarnano. when he passed three cars, one of them a. dark-colored car like Jeanette's. Now, this doesn't totally add up.

because police double-check with. Nazareno and the owner of the boarding. house, and they both say that the women. didn't leave the boarding house until. around 9:45 a.m. Which automatically doesn't make that. that manager's timeline work. If he's. saying he starts seeing them at like. 10:00. And because of that. inconsistency, police decide to toss his. whole statement. Which sends them back to square one. But. I think that that sighting of her at. 3:00 is interesting because is that. where they went in between Right, cuz we.

don't have them in Sarnano between 1:00. and 4:00. Right. So, is is that possible? Is that where they. went? Maybe not up the mountain. Doesn't. explain why you're still going up there. at 7:20, but it could be why no one saw them in. that town. They're at this other ski. resort. I don't know. >> Mhm. But that sighting of her at 2:00. p.m. I think is really interesting. because we don't Like right, we have. that window. >> It's in the middle of that like 1:00 and. 4:00. >> Right. So, is this where they went in. that time? Did they not go up the. mountain, but they went to this ski. resort at that time. For what, I don't.

know. Now, at this point, Jennette's husband, Steven, had to go back to London. So, police traveled there to talk to him. In. the time since he's been back, he's been. looking into Jennette's finances, [music] and he tells police that she had. a few bank accounts, some in England, some in Italy, but there hasn't been any. activity [music]. in any of them since the day she. disappeared. And none of the travelers. checks that were issued to her in. November had been cashed either. But in. this meeting, he also mentions that. Jennette did some business with a.

gallerist living in London who happens. to share a last name with a Sicilian. crime family. And this starts to make. police rethink those telegrams. Even if they still can't make a clear. connection to the Christie heist. This is like, I don't know, another red. flag. >> Mhm. They know mafia bosses apparently. used stolen art to launder money. So, did Jennette somehow get mixed up with. the wrong crowd? Which, don't get me.

wrong, I would love to go back to these. telegrams because they're. >> [laughter]. >> very interesting and I have so many. questions. When it comes to Jennette, everything. else seems to be pointing to an. accident. >> It's almost like police are going around. and around, [music]. like in circles, right? Like. back and forth between theories because. even in accident, like there isn't one. single theory that totally fits. Accident, why stop the car? Why take. shelter? And then if you're going to. take shelter, why leave?

And then what are those like possible. sightings of them with other people, other cars? Then why do they find stuff. at that house? Where did What if they. were like held there, though? I mean, that makes just as much sense as. like anything else to me, but by who? Right. That's what they can't get a firm. grip on. And listen, they keep getting. tips about possible suspects, >> [music]. >> and they run them down, but then it ends. up being nothing. Like there was one. woman who implicated her ex-boyfriend, said that he was a Brazilian gem dealer.

who bragged to her about killing two. women, but they end up arresting him on. something else. They show his picture. around to people. None of those people. can confirm that they ever saw him with. the women, and they end up releasing him. because, according to a Scottish. newspaper, the ex-girlfriend eventually. even admits that she made it all up to. get back at him for their breakup. And. amidst all these bogus allegations and. false leads they're chasing down, probably the most promising one gets. totally missed.

On January 30th, 1981, so this is almost 2 months exactly after. [music] Jenette and Gabriella. disappeared, someone calls the Daily Mail's Rome. office late at night claiming to have. information about the women. The tipster says that his name is Ian. Sayre, and that Jenette got a telegram. the day she disappeared. >> Another telegram? Well, no, no, no. This. is. This is the first telegram that she got. But he says he he says that he knows.

about the telegram, and then he says. another telegram has been sent to. Christie's. The important part of this. is that none of this had been made. public yet. Now, because it had not been made. public, the editor didn't take this. seriously. So, like, we know this is. important. >> editor who took the call didn't and was. like, "LOL, what are you talking about? Bye-bye.". >> Yeah, thank you, but no thank you. So, this kind of just stays in the back of. this editor's mind. Doesn't even mention. it to anyone. But as more and more time starts.

passing, [music]. as police start getting hard up for. leads, and they eventually start telling. the public more and more about the case, >> he finds out about the telegram. >> Yes. And that's when he's like, "Oh, shoot.". So, the editor first tries calling this. Ian Sayre fellow at the number that came. through on his old school telex. The number was for an Austrian hotel. And magically, Ian is still there. He is there researching a book with two. journalists. But get this, when the.

editor has a reporter reach out, this. Ian guy tells the reporter, "I have no idea what you're talking. about. I didn't call you. I don't know. anything about missing women in Italy or. telegrams or Christie's auction house.". But whoever made that call had to have. made it from the hotel that Ian was. staying at. It's not like they could. just like say that because. the way that it came through on the. telex like I was talking about, >> [music]. >> it's basically like a fancy typewriter. that automatically records the number.

that the message is coming from. Oh, so. it's not like the guy even like left the. number. It came out of the machine. >> Yeah, you can't fake it back then. >> Right. So, when they're kind of just. like like stumped, right? Like they're. like, "Okay, what do I don't know what. this means." That's when the editor. eventually passes this on to police who. go and question Ian and the two. journalists that are with him trying to. establish some kind of connection. between him or Christie's or the women. or freaking anything in this story. And. it turns out Ian grew a door-to-door. parcel business into this huge logistics.

company. Christie's was one of their. clients. But they had like tens of thousands of. clients. So, like that doesn't seem like a a good. enough connection. >> Yeah. His wife was a model like Janette. was at one point in her life, but he. told police and us cuz girl like the. team put in the work on this episode. They were making international phone. calls. >> [laughter]. >> He said that he had never met Janette or. Gabriella who who by the way like.

Janette met Gabriella like long after. her modeling days. And while we couldn't. talk to the other two journalists that. Ian was with because [music] they've. since died, their statements are in. court documents and both of them say. that they had never heard Ian even. mention Jeanette or this case until. after that call from the Daily Mail came. in. >> Yeah, cuz he was like, "Dude, this is. weird." So, they've got nothing here. And it like. it kind of just goes away, but they. still will like follow up and question. him for years afterwards. [music].

Like just seeing if this makes sense, like seeing if they missed something, seeing if stories change, but eventually. they they completely move on from this. tip. >> Which I kind of agree with. I feel like. we can cross him off the list, right? Ian didn't have anything to do with. this. He doesn't like it seems super. bizarre that he's even involved, but. I mean someone staying at his hotel knew. about those telegrams. They called. >> somebody like passing through. I mean, they don't have to be staying at the. hotel, but they had to have like been. around.

>> Yeah, even if they're just passing. through, how do you know. Ian's name to give? >> This is what I'm saying. It feels like. such a spider web. Like it's no wonder. people get tangled up in this case. Cuz. you want to just say like, "Oh, someone. maybe knew Ian and knew he was staying. there and used his name.". No, like we know it had to have come. from the hotel, so someone had to like. know he was staying there and be there. >> So, what is this person doing in Austria. then 2 months after the women go. missing? It's not even like this is like. a bad hoax. This person had to have.

actually known legit information that. wasn't public. >> Right, because the telegrams weren't. public yet. Okay, so did police look at other guests. at the. hotel? Did the hotel like keep records. of who did what calls? Were any of the. employees looked at maybe? Geraldo. Corsetti told us that he like straight. up flew to Austria. Actually, he flew to. many countries as part of his. investigation, but he actually couldn't. say much more than that. So, I don't. know what that entailed. I have to.

imagine you look at like everyone who. was in that hotel or whatever. Especially if I'm thinking like. employees who are at the hotel would. have access to the phones, would have. like. >> there? Like Who knows exactly who knows. who's staying there. From the court I. will I will say I don't know what they. did. From the court records that we. have, the things I can actually see, it. seems like police were focused on Ian. [music]. I don't know how much they checked out. other possibilities if at all, and I. just know that Ian doesn't go anywhere. So, months pass, the snow melts, seasons.

come and go, winter comes again, and there is still no Jeanette or no. Gabriella. So, on January 14, 1982, Steven decides to make a broadcast, like. a public appeal for information. And. Brett, I'm going to have you read the. sections for me, one sec. It has now been a year since the. mysterious disappearance of my wife, Jeanette, and Gabriella Guerin in the. mountains above Sernano in the Marche.

region. Gabriella's [music] two small. children, 12-year-old Ottavio and. 4-year-old Gioia, lost their father. almost 4 years ago in a car accident. Now they have been without their mother. for over a year, and it is not fair to. ask them to go on living in the. uncertainty of what might have happened. to her. My wife's family and I, too, have. endured the anguish and false hopes of a. year marked by uncertainty. Despite repeated searches and police. investigations, and despite the generous. help of volunteers and local residents,

this tragic disappearance remains a. mystery. What could have happened? Surely someone must be able to release. us from the torment and uncertainty of. not knowing the truth. Was this disappearance the result of a. terrible crime, or is there another. explanation? So, I'm really glad that he. brought up Gabriella so much in this. statement, cuz it really does seem like. all the focus has been around Jeanette, especially when it comes to like all the. foul play stuff. Did police ever really. dig into Gabriella's life? >> So, this is one of those other things.

where it's like if they did, I don't. know about it. Like, it's not in any of. the official documents or the reporting. that we looked at. I think that police were much more. heavily focused on Jeanette because like. the world that she was in, right? The. Rothschild, the It was my It felt much. bigger. Right. Like, the world she moved. in just had more connections to what. they think could be possible. Like, I mean, Gabriella lives a relatively. simple life in comparison. Like, she. provides for her kids the best she could. after her husband's death. She didn't.

have enemies. She wasn't moving in the. same world. So, it seems like the consensus was that she. was just in the wrong place at the wrong. time. And we even tried to reach out to her. family to ask like some of these. questions, but we couldn't get in touch. with anyone who knew her or her kids. well. So, this statement goes out. because if anyone is still holding on to. tips, police [music] and Steven want to. know. So, Steven offers up a reward of. up to 100 million lire, which is like it. would be today like $235,000. And he's basically looking for any.

information that will help solve this. case. And he says there'll be even more. if it leads to finding Jeanette and. Gabriella alive. And [music] this money, this is everything Steven has to his. name, and he is willing to give it all. up to bring them home. And. maybe that's what it took. Because. within 2 weeks, on January 27th, he gets. his wish. But not what he'd actually hoped for. Hunters hiking up the mountain. find objects [music] scattered across.

the snow in a ravine in this like. densely wooded area about 8 miles from. where the cabin was. They're finding boots, purses, clothing, and then bones. When police get there and do a formal. search, right away, they zero in on a. couple of things. First, they find a fork that looks just. like the ones at the house that they. believe Janette and Gabriella sheltered. in during the storm. The second thing.

was inside the purses, which by the way, nothing is missing. from, [music]. they noticed two watches that they. believed belonged to the women. According to a local Italian newspaper, Janette's watch is manually wound and. Gabriella's is like a battery-powered. watch. Janette's stopped on December [music]. 12th, 1980 at 7:20 a.m. Gabriella's stopped a week later, December 19th at 7:30 a.m. So, a week and 10 minutes apart.

Exactly. >> Kind of spooky, I know. And when was the. car and the cabin found? Uh so, December 18th is when they found. those things. So, basically, Janette's manually wound. watch stopped two weeks after they went. missing. Gabriella's battery one stopped three. weeks after and just one day after the. car was found. So, I mean, if they would. have waited just a little longer, they might have been found. Maybe. If. you want to stick to the theory that.

they took shelter from the storm in the. cabin and then they ventured out to get. help, which is clearly what this is. meant to look like, but there are some real problems with. that theory now that they have located. the women. First of all, if the bodies were there. the whole time, why didn't anyone see them? The investigator that we talked to said. that that area that they were found in, it was outside of police's official. search radius. But, a local veterinarian.

says that he had set a fox trap less. than 15 ft away from where they found. the remains, but he never noticed a smell there. >> [music]. >> I mean, he even remembers the exact spot. when he goes back with police and sure. enough, there is still a bit of trap. sitting tied to like a nearby shrub. Also, like okay, fine, the guy didn't. notice them. What, they both just laid. down and died in the exact same spot? Like I mean animals had like gotten to. the remains, right? Like some of them. had been scattered like bones, but like. they're still pretty much intact in.

their clothes with their bags. Nothing. seems to be missing. >> Well, and I'm thinking also they were. found in January and like not that. January. Like time had passed. Like you. said season had seasons had changed. Again, I think it's weird that they. weren't found, but I'm just like I also. like you think about two women, okay, we're going to venture out to get help. They just Like what are the odds I'm I'm. saying that they like even like succumb. to the elements at the exact same spot. together and lay down. Like what if I I. can see one of them was like, okay, well. I'm going to keep going and I'm going to.

get help because now the situation is. even more dire. Right. And like you need. help, I need to be able to bring people. back to you. And like the even the watches. I mean. maybe it's because one was wound, one is. battery, who knows. It's I just like I. think about other cases we've done where. people have where they think that they. die in the snow. They're they're not all. found like in the same spot. >> bodies are found together, it usually. means they died together and that seems. really unlikely when exposure is the. cause of death.

>> Yes. And then more holes are poked in the. exposure theory when police talk to a. mountain rescue volunteer who helped. with the original [music] search. He. remembers that when the searchers went. out, the snow was so deep that they. could only get through on skis. So, again, the women are waiting until. after the storm theoretically to venture. out to get help because they don't think. anyone's coming. He doesn't think the. women could have even physically made it. to where they were found in that ravine.

on foot. Especially because by the way, didn't mention this, Gabriella was. wearing a skirt. So, I don't think she would have made it. 8 miles and I go back to like the fact. that they're found together. Jeanette is. not wearing a skirt. Like she was in. pants or something. So, theoretically in my mind she could have. gotten farther if they did at least try, but I don't think they get the 8 miles. to begin with. And there was even still. some uncertainty over whose remains were. found. Like there's no DNA testing yet, so Janette ends up getting identified.

through dental records. There aren't any. on file for Gabriella, so it seems like. police are. mostly just relying on her clothes and. stuff to identify her. And eventually. forensic testing confirms that the. remains belong to a woman, but that's. like it. I mean police seem pretty sure. it's Gabriella. I mean, that's who went missing with. Janette and they have Janette, but they. also don't like look at any other. possibilities based on the court. documents that we read. But that ends up. being like a huge open question to her. family. Well, Yeah, and again, I have questions about.

all of this. Honestly, especially these hunters that. found them. Like they just happened to. stumble on these remains conveniently. right after a reward was announced. >> which they fully expect to cash in on by. the way. Just 2 days after finding the bodies, one of those hunters writes a demand. letter to Steven's lawyer for the reward. money. Remember, like all the money to. Steven's name. And Steven's lawyer is. like, "No.

You legally have to tell police if you. find human remains. Like that's a civic. duty, not information." Yeah. And even. though Steven's still willing to pay. them a portion of the reward, the hunter. ends up suing [snorts] him for the full. amount and wins. He He sues this. grieving husband who put this money up. Yes. to find his missing wife. >> And he Like I said, he ends up winning. He gets the full reward plus interest, but it doesn't seem like police ever.

look into any of the hunters as. suspects. And. maybe that's because at this point. they're not looking at this as a murder. at all anymore, especially when the. medical examiner's report comes in on. April 3rd. It shows there's no physical evidence of. trauma. So, like no blunt force. injuries, no stab [music] wounds, bullets, and which again, we're just. probably dealing with bones, but you can. see that on the skeleton. And so, going. up with what he has, the medical. examiner thinks that the cause of death. is probably just exposure. And based on.

what quote-unquote he says is logic, he. believes that the women likely died. sometime right after they went missing. But there's no way, he says, to tell how. long the remains had been in the ravine. where they were found. So, the ME rules. their deaths as accidental deaths from. exposure to snow. Steven gets permission to fly. Jeannette's remains home to London, where they're cremated. Gabriella is. buried in her hometown. And a prosecutor moves to close the. case.

Close the case with so many open. questions yet? Mhm. I'm with you. Steven is with you. According to Town & Country magazine, in. 1982, he reaches out to two journalists. at The Sunday Times who have been. reporting on the case. And he like he can't let it go. So, he. asked them to do their own. investigation. And after months of work, the. journalists come up with a brand new. theory that they publish in this 20-page. feature on November 7th, 1982. You.

ready? Sure. So, they think that Jeannette [music]. set up a meeting in the mountains to. sell an antique. Who she thought was a buyer was actually. part of a Sardinian abduction ring. And they abducted Jeannette and. Gabriella. And when the abductors. thought that the women knew enough to. identify them, they killed them. Right? Like we know there's no ransom note. >> Right. But the journalists allege that. if a note went to a family like the.

Rothschilds, the journalists say that. they would keep that kind of thing. quiet. Why? Partially for safety. Like I mean they. have money to hire people outside of law. enforcement to advise them on things. like this, right? Like so. why risk getting police involved if. kidnappers are threatening. who they think is your family member, who was your family member? >> of keep it in the family. Yeah. And like. plus like I remember this from the Getty. kidnapping. The Gettys didn't want to. publicize or pay the ransom at all.

because they thought that that would. lead to more family members getting. >> Oh. kidnapped. >> Yeah. I would think that like at least. they would tell Steven, but again maybe. Steven would tell police because it just. kind of seems wild to me to like protect. your whole family just like. like leave her family wondering forever, but this is the theory. And whether that. theory is true or not, it gets enough. attention that investigators actually do. take a deep dive into the evidence and. re-interview witnesses. So like closed. no more. This time around they notice. another problem with the initial like.

theory or ruling or decision. And it. comes to something so basic. It turns out the women probably couldn't. have seen the house from the road where. their car stopped. >> I had this question to begin with cuz. like they pull off on the side of the. road because it's so bad. >> bad. And they don't want to stay in. their running car. I've driven in really. really bad snow and visibility is like. zero. It's so bad they don't want to. drive 12 minutes back to the town. Right. But they can. see. like they get out of the car because.

why? >> Mhm. In theory, they're going to seek. shelter in this house. But if it's so. bad that they can't drive the 12 minutes. back, how can they see the house? >> They can't. >> So they're just getting out of their car. into the white void of a snowstorm? Yeah. So So when you put it that way, like yes, they would have left their. perfectly fine running car to just walk. into the woods in a snowstorm. Which is bananas. >> Bonkers.

All that to say, when they're found and. their stuff is found, there is a fork. from the house. >> house. And there are hairs in the house. They make it seem like they were there. >> Right. So, how did they get there if they went. there? >> Or who took them there? Because you. would have had to know that this house. was there to get from the car to the. house. >> a snowstorm. >> It makes me wonder like, is the house. not a shelter place, but like a meeting. place? Mhm. So, it was like a pointed. place that they were going to. >> Or someone took them to right like like.

someone took them there. >> point. >> Uh yeah, I don't know. I don't know. So, listen. Okay, so they're looking. into this now cuz they they've realized. they had this big flaw in their initial. theory. Yeah. And when they dig, like. when you actually like go down this. road, the police end up learning that there. may have been a connection between. Jennette and a very dangerous man, who. they discover also has ties to the. Christie's heist. Christie's is back.

>> At Christie's is back. So, as they're. interviewing and then re-interviewing. people for this new investigation, police speak to one of Jennette's. friends who they show photos of people. that they think she might have known. So, they end up showing her pictures of. some guys that they think might be. connected to Jennette. And the friend. recognizes one of them, this guy named. Sergio Vaccari. He is an Italian antique. dealer and reported drug dealer who'd. lived in London until he was stabbed to.

death in his apartment on September. 15th, 1982. Which is after. the women have like disappeared, whatever. So, police in London were still. investigating Sergio's murder when they. searched his safe deposit box and found. photos of stolen antiques, some of. which, by the way, were taken during. Christie's heist in '80. They shared. that with the Italian police looking. into the heist, which is how Sergio got. on their radar. So, thank god they had.

reopened this investigation cuz I almost. wonder like if it had been closed and. nobody was thinking about it like would. this have ever been like brought up, tied back together? >> So, they keep going down this road. I mean, this finally feels like it has. some real weight to it and like maybe. can explain the things we couldn't. before. And it keeps getting more solid. Through. a man who knew Sergio, they find out. that there was a name written in. Sergio's diary. Janette. No last name, though. And that guy remembers that next to her.

name, he saw a phone number. Problem is police can't track down. Sergio's diary, so they can't track down. the number or tie it to Janette in any. way. But even without the diary, the. more police look into Sergio, the more. they think they may finally be on the. right track. Because Sergio may have. been involved in another mysterious. death of an Italian banker. So, I know I'm getting out a little bit. of a tangent, but like you got to. understand who this guy is and like the. world that we're operating in.

So, a British journalist tells police. that a source, he can't say who, but it's someone in the antique dealing. world who has come up in the. investigation before. This source told him that Sergio had. something to do with the death of man. named Roberto Calvi. Roberto was the. chairman of a Vatican-backed bank. [music] that collapsed in June 1982. after an investigation showed that the. bank had committed massive [music]. financial fraud involving like secret. offshore accounts, unauthorized loans,

and I mean, they had ties to mafia. groups. [music]. After all of that, this Roberto guy fled. to London and then he's found hanging. under a bridge 12 days later. His death gets ruled a suicide, like all. that. Now, this journalist source says. that he knows Sergio is connected to. Roberto's death because once when he was. in Sergio's car, he had opened Sergio's. bag. This is the point where he's like. alone in the car with the bag. And he. says a few photos fall out. One of them. was Roberto.

And then there was another photo. of Janette. And the journalist tells. police that the source was still in the. car with the pictures when Sergio came. back. And Sergio actually told him that. he was involved in Roberto's death. What. did he say about the picture of Janette? According to the source, nothing. Which. makes this a great lead. that they can't do anything with. >> Right, that's kind of a dead end. Even. though they're are now more convinced.

that the women met with foul play, they still can't say when or how. Even. the why still feels fuzzy. Mhm. And they. definitely can't say who. So, without any suspects to charge, even though like they feel like. something different happened, the case. still gets closed out in October of. 1989. Uh okay. Do police ever retest the. physical evidence from the house or the.

remains or anything? >> Not that I can tell. I mean, certainly not before '89. Like. there was a whole lot new they could do. I know that according to an Italian. daily newspaper, so in uh 2005, a. biology professor actually reached out. to Gabriella's family asking to analyze. her remains. Like I think they were. hoping once and for all to confirm. whether or not the remains belonged to. Gabriella. Remember there was kind of. like a question about that. So, her. family lets this guy exhume the remains. They also give him a DNA sample. But this is so weird. When he runs the.

tests, it's only Gabriella's DNA that is. present. No one else's. Which like feels like you're like, "Yeah, so what? No big deal.". You would kind of expect something from. Janette. Right? Because like back in the. day, Right, this is it. >> in '80, so they're kind of just like. pushing everything together. But not. even pushing everything, like even with. how they were found. Like animals like. could have moved stuff or whatever. Back in the day, like what they had. wasn't advanced enough, like the their. type of tech or whatever to like.

separate the remains when they were. processed, right? You have like certain. bones and and you can probably guess. based on height or whatever. But I think everyone kind of expected. some mixing. And like we said, like. Jeanette's remains end up being. cremated. And Steven refused to provide. any samples. Though like like I don't. even know like what samples he would. have. So answers about like what what. what could have been hers or not hers, like that's long gone. It's just like a. weird thing. Again, I don't know that it. means anything. It's just like strange. and if you like look into this case, you're going to see it pop up. And for.

people who want to get really. conspiratorial, I think it it lends to. that, like what what was Jeanette. actually dead? Again, they they ID'd her. though through dental record. I don't. know. I don't know. But it's like things. I've seen people spiral on. So this. testing gets done, but it doesn't bring. police any new leads. And the case again goes cold and. interest wanes until 2013. That's when a photographer named Marco. Accetti makes some wild claims.

Which brings the Vatican back to this. case. And an old Crime Junkie episode. So we. did a fan club episode about the 1983. disappearance of Emanuela Orlandi. She. was a 15-year-old girl who went to a. Vatican City school. I'll link to it in the show notes if you. guys need a reminder. But Marco is the. guy who claimed responsibility for her. kidnapping. While he was already in. prison for running over a 12-year-old. boy. So.

when police had questioned him about. Emanuela, Marco says that in the '80s he. was involved with this secret group that. acted on behalf of religious figures who. opposed mainstream Vatican politics. They. And he says, like back to this case, that they wanted to recruit Jeanette for. some kind of blackmail plan. Like they wanted her to falsely accuse. the president of the Vatican bank. And this is the bank that Roberto Calvi.

chaired. They wanted her to accuse him of sexual. assault. Which so he throws that out. there and then he makes a 180°. turn and says that. they never actually got in contact with. Jeanette and that her death doesn't have. anything to do with him. So So why bring her up at all? But okay. Is there any connection between Jeanette. and Emanuela? Or does this guy just. confess to everything for fun? >> don't Like I If I remember correctly, like he They never actually found a.

connection. >> No, I don't think there's any connection. besides like him, right? Like in He's. just like bringing it up. >> In both his versions, like Jeanette and. Emanuela were like tangential pieces in. his group's Vatican blackmail plot. And. like when I try to like see if there's. any like ties, like the only thing I. could find was that Stephen hired. [music] the same lawyer as Emanuela's. family. But that's about it. And Emanuela's family has been clear. that they think Marco made up the. allegations involving their daughter for.

attention. So if that's true, it's very. possible he's doing it again. Mhm. But I mean. it's a clickbaity story. So it's no. wonder that the media just kind of runs. with it when it happens. Which like. you know, it's like double-edged sword, right? Like it's. It's media attention, but it's like the. wrong kind. It's the wrong direction. >> bring attention back to the case. And. maybe because of that, maybe because of. something else that's happening that we. don't know, I do know that just in.

November of 2024, Jeanette and. Gabriella's case got reopened as a. double murder investigation. [music] And. the one thing they said is they did this. based on inconsistencies. that they found in witness statements, which like Which witnesses? When? Yeah. Would love to know. But like we're seven, eight months now. into the reinvestigation and they. haven't shared much more than that. Like. I spiral and I'm like, okay, are we. talking witnesses that get tied up in. this? Like are whatever are we talking about.

like. The people in the town like there's so. many options for I know. witnesses. [music] I know. And if what we need is. stuff from witnesses like time's running. out to get to the bottom of this. mystery. Steven is still alive as is Gabriella's. daughter Gioia. But so many people, some witnesses. included, maybe even suspects are being. lost. Two families have been waiting for. answers for over 40 years now. And. according to what Gioia told an Italian. news outlet last year, hope is a hard.

thing to have anymore. I mean, she's. been let down too many times. But she also said that knowing the. truth, like whatever the truth is, it. might finally lift her burden that she's. carried for over 40 years. So if anyone. listening has information about Jeanette. and Gabriella's case, it's not too late. to come forward. You can contact the local prosecutor's. office in Italy. >> [music]. >> and we are going to list their contact. information right in the show notes. You can find all the source material. [music] for this episode on our website.

crimejunkiepodcast.com. You can also follow us on Instagram. @crimejunkiepodcast. [music]. We'll be back next week with a brand new. episode. A woman named Twania is getting kind of. nervous. She and her 23-year-old. boyfriend Marcus Rutledge were supposed. to meet up, but he's a no-show. [music]. So when Twania pulls up to Marcus's. apartment, his car isn't there.

She's actually convinced that something. is up. So, she reaches out to Marcus's. best friend and he's just as concerned. But, this is where they encountered the. first big twist. It turns out Marcus has been keeping. some major secrets from his family. So, it's the afternoon on Monday, June. 8th, 1998 and a woman named Tawania is.

getting kind of nervous. She and her. 23-year-old boyfriend, Marcus Rutledge, were supposed to meet up, but he's a. no-show. Not even answering his cell. phone. She's like calling him and. calling him, but she's just not hearing. anything back. And when's the last time. she spoke to him? So, it actually hasn't. been very long. I mean, he had spent the. night at her place and then took their. 2-year-old daughter to daycare around. like 10:00 that morning. And they've. even honestly talked on the phone since. at like 1:00, 1:30 that afternoon. So, truly very little time has passed. It. might not even ring alarm bells for some.

people, but the thing [clears throat]. is, this is totally uncharacteristic of. Marcus not to answer his phone. And if. he did miss a call, he would get back to. whoever tried him like ASAP. So, right. away, she knows in her gut that. something just doesn't feel right. So, she reaches out to Marcus's parents, David and Geraldine, known as Jerry. And. she's just trying to see if like they. have heard anything from him. They're. not local. They're in Southeast Michigan. while Tawania and Marcus both live in. Nashville, Tennessee. Marcus had. actually moved to Nashville to attend.

Tennessee State University, TSU. But, even with the distance, like his family. talks to him pretty regularly. So, Tawania is hoping that they might know. where he is. But, it turns out they. haven't heard from him either. Now, according to what his dad, David, told our reporter, Nina, when he got. that first call from Tawania, he. understood her concern. Like, Marcus. going MIA, even to him, is unheard of. But, you know, he tries to reassure her. at first. Maybe Marcus [music] just got. held up somewhere. It'll be fine. Just.

like give it a beat. >> Right. But, Towania says that she wants. to go to Marcus's duplex apartment to. just check on him. So, David tells her. like, "Okay, just like keep me posted.". And meanwhile, he and Jerry start making. a series of unsuccessful calls to Marcus. themselves trying to reach him. So, when. Towania pulls up to Marcus's apartment, his car, this red 1995 Plymouth Neon, isn't there. But, instead of that. reassuring her like, "Oh, he's just out. for some reason." She's actually more. convinced than ever that something is.

up, and she needs to get into his. apartment. Now, even though they've been. together for a little bit, it doesn't. look like she has a key to his place. So, she devises this plan to call. Marcus's best friend Ethan Gibbs Jr., who basically helps her just break into. the place. That feels like a pretty big. leap. I guess. I mean, I think it's. it's the unanswered phone calls that. just again, I I I can't. >> unlike him. >> him. Even when she calls Ethan, like he. doesn't think she's overreacting. He's. just as concerned. So, when Ethan gets.

there, he and Towania break in through a. back window. And what they find inside. just kind of confirms for them that they. made the right decision because even. though there's no sign of a struggle or. foul play, Marcus's Rottweiler is shut. in his bathroom with no food or water. except like the water in the toilet. >> Oh. And they can tell that he's been. there for a while because he had eaten. part of the bathroom carpet. And they. know that Marcus would never leave his. dog like [music] that, not even for a. short amount of time, let alone for.

however long it took this dog to start. chewing on the rug. [clears throat]. So, there's no indication that Marcus was. planning for any kind of trip, [music]. right? Like his clothes are still there. There's no bag or suitcase that's packed. or even missing. Like nothing is. standing out to them. So, with David and Jerry's. encouragement, Tawania calls the. Metropolitan Nashville Police Department. that very night. And an officer comes to. take a missing person's report. Now,

initially he gets some basic details. about Marcus. He puts out a bolo for his. car, which should stick out because like. it has not only is it red but like has. Michigan plates still. >> local. >> Right. Now, even though there is nothing. in his apartment that is obviously out. of place. [music] Like it doesn't appear. that he was even robbed, nothing like. that. David told us that something was. taken from Marcus's apartment that day. that police do kind of check out. So, Marcus's landline phone was taken, but. there's no mystery about who took it. It.

was Tawania. Why? Uh she says apparently it was her. phone and she wanted it back. Question. mark. Why did police let her take anything? I. don't know. I don't know if they didn't. realize that she even did at first. Like. we actually got to speak with Nashville. cold case detective [music] Matt Filter. He is the one heading up the. investigation now, although he wasn't on. the force when this all started, but he. told us that Tawania actually took. Marcus's caller ID because apparently.

she wanted to look for numbers that she. might recognize. Like I don't know if. the caller ID is like built into the. phone. I don't know why she would take. it instead of telling police. >> I was going to say, but couldn't she. have checked it right there at the. apartment? >> this part like doesn't totally add up. for me, but for whatever reason, she. took it with her. Police do though get. it back from her pretty quickly. Like. once they realize, but it's useless to. everyone because Detective Filter says.

that when she unplugged it at Marcus's. house, all of the numbers were. automatically erased. >> It's like factory reset. So, if she was. trying to see something, that. information is now gone. And that's just. one of the things weighing on David and. Jerry's minds as they make the 500-plus. mile drive to Nashville the next day. >> [music]. >> So, when they arrive, Tawania's house is. their first stop. Now, Tawania isn't a stranger to them. On like a past trip to Nashville, David.

and Jerry had taken her and Marcus out. to dinner, but this time they're not. here for a friendly visit. Like, they. want answers from her. >> Yeah. But, Tawania tells them she has no. idea what could have happened to Marcus. or where he might be. And the only. person she can think of who Marcus spent. a lot of time with is Ethan. So, Marcus's parents arrange to meet up with. him at their son's duplex, but he. doesn't have any insight to share. either. He says he is just as lost as. they are and he wants to help them find. Marcus any way he can.

However, David and Jerry can't help but. notice that their son's friend seems. awfully nervous. Like, he's. literally sweating. He can't sit still. And there's just this uncomfortable. energy that is like vibrating off of. him. Had they ever met Ethan before? So, they actually know him pretty well. because up until a few months ago, Ethan. and Marcus shared an apartment. They. were roommates.

But, like Marcus had recently decided to. get his own place, so he moved out, like. moved into this duplex that they had now. looked at. >> Did anything prompt that move or was it. just like kind of growing up, wanting. your own space? >> Yeah, I think you can call it that. I. think the two just had like roommate. issues, but stuff that like two people. who live together might encounter, little things that just like get under. your skin. Marcus. >> you and I have never lived together. Preach. [laughter]. Marcus had I guess vented to his family. about Ethan. He's messy, his bills. weren't getting paid on time, like that. kind of thing. But, even after Marcus. moved out, he and Ethan stayed really.

close friends. So, like, there is no bad. blood between them. And honestly, Marcus's family had always. liked Ethan. He is a respectful guy from. a good family. They never had any cause. for concern about Marcus being around. him. And even now, they're wondering if. his reaction is maybe just because of. the circumstances. I mean, his best. friend is now missing, seemingly. vanished into thin air. But, Marcus's sister Felicia notices the. same strange vibe when Ethan takes her.

driving around to look for her brother's. missing car. She's like, "Ethan's acting. tense. He's not saying much." Like, other than like suggesting places where. they should maybe look for the car. He's. saying that he's worried about the whole. situation. But again, nothing like incriminating. It's just like it could be chalked up to. the same thing, right? Now, as. detectives start digging in, they begin. to learn more about Marcus's life. He has two children, a nearly 4-year-old. son with a former girlfriend in. Knoxville, and a 2-year-old daughter.

with Tawania. He is super involved with. both kids, always checks in with his. son, but that child and his mom haven't. heard from him either. According to. Tennessean reporter Beth Warren, Marcus. had last seen his son in May when they. went to the zoo, and they had been. planning a big party for his upcoming. birthday. >> Was there any relationship drama? No. No, he gets along well with both of his. children's mothers, so like. that feels like a quick dead end, which. is when they turn to his school. Maybe.

someone at the university there can help. them piece things together. >> Right. But, this is where they. encountered the first big twist in their. investigation. It turns out Marcus has. been keeping some major secrets from his. family. So, police learn that Marcus actually. dropped out of college the year before, back in 1997. >> What? >> Yeah, he's basically been pretending to.

be a student ever since. >> And his family had no idea. Mhm. In. fact, the last time Marcus visited his. parents, which was just a few weeks. before he went missing. This was for. Memorial Day. He was there for a. cookout. He said he left early because. he had to study for an exam. >> Did Tawania know? I don't know. So, the. detective we talked to didn't know. either. And Nina tried calling the. number that Marcus's dad had for. Tawania. We're not sure if it's still the right. number for her anymore. Like, long story.

short, we haven't been able to talk to. her to figure that out. But either way, his family [music] was shocked to find. this out from police. Like, going to TSU. was the entire reason Marcus moved to. Nashville in the first place. I mean, both his parents went there. He wanted. to follow in their footsteps. I mean, the wild part is they thought he was. close to graduating. It's not just that. he was going there. They were expecting. to go to a graduation soon. But, that's. not the only surprise in store for the. family. Because even though Marcus doesn't have.

a criminal record, investigators also. learn that he'd been selling weed. And. they think that he might have started. when he was still a student because his. clientele seems to mostly be other. students. Like, it doesn't seem that he. was out on the streets dealing. And. we're talking a small-scale stuff. Like, not some big-time operation. And Ethan. actually admits this to police. He says. that he and Marcus both sell weed. Although, I'm not sure if they work. together or what. And I don't know if. Ethan is the first person that they hear. this from or if he's just confirming.

this info that they learn or already. had. But, he doesn't try to hide it. I. think it's the main point. But, that. could be why he's acting so strange. around Marcus's family. He knows they're. all going to find out about this and be. upset about the drugs. >> Maybe, yeah. But, here's the thing. Even. while he's being honest about the weed, investigators still can't shake this. feeling like Ethan is holding something. back. They just don't know what. Cuz. like, I don't think that all that stuff. like just stops after they learn the. thing, right? Or what they.

think could be the thing. Did he know. that Marcus had dropped out of school? I. assume he knew because they spent a. decent amount of time together. I mean, like. I think I would tell you things I. wouldn't necessarily tell my parents. like when I was his age, but there. doesn't seem to be any solid. confirmation of that. Like. it it's kind of like with Towania. I. mean, and even his other ex, I don't. know what any of them did or did not. know about him dropping out of college. But, I do know that both women, Towania.

and his other ex, seem to be aware that. he was selling weed. I know that much. In an interview with Dateline NBC. reporter Josh Mankiewicz, his son's mom. said that he was doing it to help. provide for their child. And Towania. tells detectives the same thing that. this was just a way he could make enough. money to support everyone. But, whatever the reason, his parents. are hurt and confused to find all of. this out like this. Like it completely. goes against his upbringing. Like they. raised Marcus and his sister in this.

solid home they felt that like centered. around family, it centered around. church. David is actually an elected. official. Jerry is an elementary school. teacher. So, like. selling drugs, lying about being in. college, all of this is the last thing. they expected [music] from their son. However, speaking of secrets, this. wasn't the only time Marcus had kept a. big one from his parents. They actually. didn't know about their grandson until.

he was born. And Marcus was only 19 at. the time. I don't know how like churchy. they raised him, but I can see that. maybe being a reason why he hid it. Yeah, I mean, I think he was probably. just afraid that David and Jerry would. be disappointed in him, right? >> And that's probably the reason he kept. the school thing to himself. Like the. disappointment that like he's al-. Not only is he disappointing them, but. he's already disappointed them. so it's. like one more thing. Had they noticed. any changes in Marcus's behavior like.

looking back like knowing or finding out. about all this now? So, at that Memorial. Day cookout I mentioned earlier, his. sister Felicia thought that he seemed. unusually stressed. But when she asked. him about it, he just said that he had a. lot going on in Nashville. He didn't. really elaborate and as far as his. parents knew, everything was fine. Like. you can chalk stress up to the finals he. said he was going to go study for. >> schooling, yeah. >> Right. So, you can imagine how. overwhelming this is for his family. They are already dealing with him being.

missing, but then to discover that he. was living a life they really knew. nothing about. It was a lot. And David. told us it's like walking through a. nightmare. And as investigators dig. deeper into Marcus's life, more. concerning details emerge. He had gotten. into a couple of altercations. One. reported to police when it happened. about a year before his disappearance, and then another just a few months. before he went missing. Both incidents. were apparently related to him selling.

weed, although Detective Filter won't. share specifics about those. altercations. >> Were there people after him? Like was. there anybody like. Not that investigators can tell. I like. I don't think there's anyone specific or. if there is, they're not sharing that. It seems like from everything they look. at, they can't find any immediate. dangers in his life. No one is saying. Marcus owed them money. No one has been. like making threats to him. But they do discover something. interesting. Back in mid-May, Marcus,

they find out, had rented a car for like. 10 days. And this stood out because they know. that he didn't get into an accident or. anything. So, it doesn't look like his. own car was out of commission or. anything. >> So, why rent? >> Right. Now, did he drive back and forth. from Nashville to Knoxville a lot to see. his son? You know, that's like 360 miles. each trip. Maybe he didn't want to put. the miles on his car. But Detective. Filter pointed out an alternative. possibility.

He says that when you're doing something. illegal, you might not want to use your own car. to do that. But they don't know [music] if he was. doing something illegal with the car or. what he was using it for in those 10. days. They truly just have no idea. >> Right, he just had a rental for 10 days. >> Right. So they find that out, but then. beyond that, not much turns up. There is. a recent traffic ticket, some receipts. from a car wash, like nothing that. points investigators in any real. direction.

here you have this devoted father who. has suddenly stopped checking in with. his kids, which seems completely out of. character. But they've also just learned that he's. been living this whole other life that. his family knew nothing about. And they. really can't tell if he left on his own. or if something happened to him. But their thinking starts to shift on. Tuesday, June 30th. That is when a maintenance man at an. apartment complex more than 20 miles. from where Marcus lives spots Marcus's.

missing Plymouth. And this guy tells investigators that. this car has been sitting in the same. spot at Riverwood Apartments for at. least a couple of weeks. Why is he just. calling about it now? Well, according to. David, the guy contacts police because. he saw something on the news about. Marcus's disappearance and the car. So. maybe he had only just realized I mean. again, it's not like anything bad about. this car. It's just kind of been there. And then once they make known what car. everyone's looking for, he's like, "Oh, that's the car." Does Marcus know.

someone who lives at this complex? >> that's the thing. As far as anyone. knows, Marcus has zero connection to. this complex. And while investigators. don't find any signs of violence in the. car when they look at it, like there's. no blood or anything like that, the fact. that it's just sitting there abandoned. makes them think something bad must have. happened to Marcus. I mean, if he wanted. to take off and start a new life, like. How's he going to get there? >> is the thing you need, right? Like or if. you're going to leave your car behind,

like just leave it parked at your place. Why drive 20 miles and then ditch it at. this random apartment complex? >> Right. And what's even more wild is apparently. someone had been driving the car around. The maintenance man tells detectives. that he saw this middle-aged guy. occasionally using it before it was left. there for good around mid-June. So, somebody who was definitely not. 23-year-old Marcus. Now, Detective Filter says that they. never identified who this mystery driver.

was, but he also says that there could. be explanations that. don't necessarily include this driver. being the one who did something to. Marcus. Like he says. like there is a world where someone. could have just handed this person the. car without telling them anything about. Marcus. Like could have been someone who. didn't realize what they were driving. around until they had like found out it. belonged to a missing person and then. when they did, like that's when they. left it there, didn't go back for it. >> And was it locked up? Were the keys. there? >> It wasn't locked, but Detective Filter. couldn't find anything in the reports.

that indicated if the keys were in it or. not. >> Mhm. And the maintenance man had no clue who. the driver was, by the way. Like hence. the vague description. And this is a. guy, the maintenance guy, he's like. around a lot and he's like, "I don't. recognize him. I hadn't seen him around. before. No idea why he was in the. complex at all." But it makes you feel. like the driver had to have lived there. or was close to someone who did live. there if he like was at the complex like. back and forth a couple times. Like he. was there and then he wasn't and then he.

like. >> would think, but all I know is that. according to David, police canvassed the. complex and that didn't lead them to. Marcus or to anyone who knew Marcus. Yeah, but what about the people who knew. the driver? I know we don't know who he. is, but like. he doesn't live there, but that guy has. to have a tie there. To me, it. like. it's a chain, right? Like the person in. the complex leads you to the driver, the. driver leads you to who gave him to the. car. And like if they're that goes all. the way back to Marcus and why he.

doesn't have his car and where he is. >> And if they did have something to do. with it, right? And it's not just like a. car that was given to them. Or even if. again they now know it belongs to a. missing person. Like I don't think. they're going to be like fessing up to. knowing him, right? Right. I don't know. So, it's possible. all the things are possible. It's also. possible that the canvassing they did. was just light. Again, maybe people were. lying. Or option C, I just truly don't know. But, they're hopeful that now that they. have the car, maybe they can find the.

driver another way. And maybe through. forensic evidence. So, police have the. Plymouth towed to their lab and inside. they find a gun that's tucked under the. driver's seat. Now, is this more. evidence of Marcus's double life? Like. did the gun belong to the person who was. driving the car? Did it belong to Marcus? Like couldn't. tell you because it doesn't look like. the gun was actually registered to. anyone. Though it seems like from, you know, what we learned from Detective Filter. that everyone assumes the gun was.

Marcus's. They also managed to lift two. fingerprints from the car. One from. inside the driver's side window and then. another from a rented VHS tape that they. find in the car. Now, the print from the. tape leads nowhere. The detective told. us they confirmed it belonged to an. employee at the video rental place, which is like give me an older sentence, right? And the fingerprint on the window. they eliminated. They or they eliminated. Ethan and Tawanya as the sources of it,

but they didn't like eliminate anyone. else. They couldn't determine who it. belonged to. Here's the wild part to me. They said it. could be Marcus's because Detective. Filter says they don't have his prints. on file. But like here's where I get a little. skeptical. Like sure, Marcus was never. arrested, so his prints weren't in the. system. But they have access to his. apartment. Like. couldn't they have lifted his prints. from there to compare? I mean you'd. think. So. those two prints were the only prints in.

the car. Right? Like I guess I thought you were. saying that those were the only prints. that weren't his. >> Those are the only prints that were. identifiable. So Detective Filter like. smudged or smeared or incomplete. >> Yeah, Detective Filter told us the car. was examined meticulously is what he. said and that it didn't appear to be. wiped down or anything like that. That's. a question we asked. But he says he also. can't say for sure. Again, he wasn't on. the case back then. So from what I can. tell, those are the ones that were they. were able to pull. And here's the thing,

prints aside, what really concerns. investigators is what they don't find in. the car, which is any proof that Marcus. was alive after June 8th. All of the. receipts, everything in the car predates. his disappearance. Meanwhile, so they. find this, Marcus's family is back in. Michigan at this point trying to process. their new reality. To David and Jerry, each revelation about their son feels. like another piece of the puzzle, one. that they never thought they would have. to solve. His student loan notices are.

starting to come in the mail, which is. just this reminder of a life that he was. supposed to be building. And. there's something else that's coming in, something far stranger than student loan. bills. Shortly after their son goes missing, Jerry and David start [music] getting. these strange phone calls on their home. phone in Michigan. The phone will ring. and ring, but when they pick up it's. nothing. Just silence on the other end.

And. Jerry, they don't just like say hello. and stop talking. I mean, Jerry pleads. with the caller. Like, Marcus, if this. is you, please just say something. But. whoever is on the other end never. speaks. And Felicia remembers it happening like. two or three times in those first couple. of months. And according to an article. by Jax Miller for Oxygen Network, Marcus's son's mom was getting the same. kind of unsettling quiet calls. Did.

police try to trace these calls? >> Not that I'm aware of. Like, I. I don't know. if they even try. to begin with I or if the problem was. like they From what I can tell, there's. no pattern to this or anything. So, I don't know if they just think they're. weird and if or if they just didn't care. enough to do it. I don't know. But these. calls do give his loved ones hope that. Marcus is still. out there maybe, maybe still alive. >> Mhm. Investigators though, they're not as. optimistic. The calls are, like I said,

super sporadic. Months will go by. without a single one. And in that time, the leads are even. fewer. So, almost as quickly as it all begins, the case goes cold. Police don't have. enough to work with, no real trail to. follow. All of the fragments that. they've uncovered about Marcus haven't. even fit together into any kind of. coherent picture. No one they speak with. seems to have the whole story. Well, almost no one.

They're still pretty sure that Ethan. knows way more than he's letting on. Maybe he doesn't know exactly what. happened to Marcus, but Detective Filter. believes that he had some idea of what. happened or who might have been. involved. Cuz even though he was upfront. about, you know, selling weed, for. whatever reason, after that and beyond. that point, it appears that he kind of. just shut down. And while it's possible given time, he. might have decided to share more,

that is a chance that he doesn't get. Because little do detectives know, they. are about to have a new case to work. And their victim. will be Ethan. So, let me take you to February 1999. By now, Marcus has been missing for. about 8 and 1/2 months, and the case is. at a complete standstill. Investigators. are convinced that Ethan knows more than.

he's letting on, but he's not talking. Now, around this time, Ethan is tied up. with someone new. This brand new. roommate of sorts, this guy named. Charles D. Brown, Jr. [music]. And this new arrangement. is raising some eyebrows, especially. with Ethan's brother, Jonathan. Jonathan. has been staying with Ethan, but as soon. as Charles moves in, Jonathan's like, "I'm piecing out for a bit." just wants. to get away from the guy, [music]. because. Charles is one of Ethan's closest. friends, but Jonathan has never approved.

of him. He didn't think that Charles was. the type of person his brother should. hang out with. And there was definitely reasons for. concern. So, according to articles in. The Tennessean by Kirk Loggins and Kathy. Carlson, Charles had past arrests for. aggravated assault, unlawful weapon. possession, and selling and possessing. weed. He had also been shot and shot. someone during the attempted home. invasion that happened. Interestingly, that attempted home. invasion happened 1 day after Marcus.

went missing. >> Mhm. You know we don't believe in. coincidences anymore. >> Right. So, let me rewind real quick and. tell you about this home invasion, because the details are. interesting, to say the least. So, in the morning on June 9th, 1998, three or four masked men broke into. Charles's apartment. And at the time he. was living with his girlfriend and two. young children and everyone was home. when the intruders broke in. They. demanded money and then they started.

shooting. They're like spraying bullets. everywhere with at least two guns. >> [music]. >> Charles gets shot five times and somehow. not only did he manage to survive, he. also returned fire and hit one of the. gunmen who then took off. And John Yates. reported something really intriguing for. the Tennessean. Witnesses told police that they saw the. suspects flee from Charles's place in. two vehicles including a red one that. they thought looked like a Chevy.

Corsica. And when I Googled a red Chevy. Corsica, it looks an awful lot like. Marcus's then missing red Plymouth. Which I actually have the photos to show. you because it's just too bonkers. Okay, so this one is the Corsica. And this is the. Ashley. They're like identical. They're. kind of like the same car. They. definitely look incredibly similar.

>> like if you weren't like a car person. Right. Or like I I'm not even a car. person but like you knew your makes and. models I you could easily mix those up. >> you're just like an eyewitness to. something and say like yeah, I saw a guy. in a red car. It looked a little bit. like this one. >> Right. Either of those cars. >> Right. So one of the two cars in that. whole thing was this. Anyway, within an. hour of the home invasion, a man named. James Cowan shows up at the hospital. with multiple gunshot wounds. Cowan. tells police some story about getting. shot from a car but court records show.

that the bullet recovered during his. surgery matched a gun that the shooters. left behind at Charles's apartment. So. I'm guessing that Cowan was hit by maybe. friendly fire during the chaos cuz again. it didn't come from like Charles's gun. Supposedly it was a gun left behind. [music]. Now this Cowen guy was no stranger to. detectives. He was actually a potential. suspect in six homicides. Oh my god. Yeah, as far as I can tell, Cowen was. never arrested for murder. He was, however, arrested and convicted of.

attempted first-degree murder, especially aggravated robbery, and. aggravated burglary for the home. invasion on Charles, and he was. sentenced to six [music] decades in. prison because of the violent nature of. the crime and his extensive rap sheet, which included multiple drug-related. felonies. Now, [music] in connection to. all of this, Charles wasn't arrested. since he was acting in self-defense, but. investigators didn't believe that Cowen. and the crew he came with just randomly. chose Charles's house to rob. Did they.

arrest anyone else in connection to it? I mean, it's It was more than one. person, right? >> but as far as I know, they didn't like. arrest anyone or charge anyone except. for Cowen. Did they recover the gun used. to shoot at Charles with? So, that's not. totally clear from the court records. They say they recovered two guns. They. recovered a 9-mm found in the backyard, and they had Charles's gun, which is a. .357 revolver, but there were at least. three guns involved because according to.

testimony, at one point during this. struggle, an accomplice of Cowen's threw. him a {quote} "big gun" when the first. gun that he was using ran out of. ammunition. What about the gun in. Marcus's car? Well, so at the time this is happening, I mean, they're not going to find that. for weeks, but when they do find it, I. know that they run the bullets through. their database to check for links to. other crimes, but nothing comes up. So, I don't think that gun was used in this, >> Okay. >> what you're getting at. >> Yeah. Okay, so that happens. Now, let's. jump back to February of 1999. According.

to Kirk Loggins, on the 18th, Ethan. informs his brother that Charles is. going to crash with him, right? And so, this is when Jonathan's like, "Don't. like like guy. I'm going to peace. [music] out.". A couple of days after that, Ethan tells. him that Charles was {quote} "going. crazy." Like apparently, he was super. paranoid. He was saying that his. girlfriend was trying to have him. killed. Uh Jonathan had the exact right. idea getting out of there. But it's not. like Jonathan moved away. I mean, I. don't think Charles was supposed to be a.

permanent fixture. He just needed to. crash for a couple of days. So, the. night of [music] Tuesday, February 23rd, Jonathan comes back to the house. And. when he pulls up, the door to the duplex. is wide open. And when he makes his way inside, there. on the floor, he sees his brother, Ethan's body, stiff and cold. He had. been shot multiple times. Now, police. believe that Ethan was actually killed. days before he was found, sometime. before noon that past Sunday. They also.

think that there might have been more. than one weapon used, and shell casings. that they find appear to be from a .40. caliber gun. Now, they don't see any signs of forced. entry, although they do notice that. something is missing. Ethan's white. Pontiac Grand Am. But the next day, someone spots this vehicle in. Nashville's Inglewood neighborhood, which is like 18 mi from Ethan's. apartment, and they recognize it from. the news reports. >> Mhm. This is feeling too similar. Right?

And Ethan's aunt tells Kathy Carlson. that his family doesn't know of any. connections that he has to that area. >> Now, obviously, the biggest difference. between Marcus and Ethan's cases are. that Ethan's is clearly a homicide. He's. been found, while Marcus is still a. missing person. >> Right. And while detectives are still. basically in the dark about what. happened to Marcus, they've got a pretty good theory forming. about who might be responsible for. Ethan's murder. >> It's got to be Charles. Yeah, and mostly.

because an Inglewood woman IDs him as. the guy that she saw leaving Athens car. on her street the day before his body. was found. Wait, how old is Charles? I'm wondering if he could have been the. one seen driving Marcus's car? >> No, that they thought that guy was. middle-aged. Charles is like Marcus's age, so like. 20, early 20s. Right. But still, police. can't ignore how sketchy his behavior. gets. Kirk Logans reported that Charles.

skips Ethan's funeral and completely. ghost police when they try to question. him further. A friend who hung out with. Charles and Ethan over the weekend tells. investigators that Charles was seriously. worried about his own safety, possibly. because of that home invasion that we. talked about. Now, Charles was apparently so convinced. that someone was after him that he was. wearing a bulletproof vest around and he. had at least two guns in his SUV, including a .40 caliber, like the shell. casings found at the scene.

So, talking or not, they do have enough. on him to charge him with Ethan's murder. in early March. And after a few days on. the run, he ends up turning himself in. Hold up. What's the motive? Charles got. paranoid and then just snapped on Ethan? >> No, so not likely. Detective Filter. actually refers to Ethan's murder as. drug-related cuz he believes that Ethan. was selling weed when he was killed. So, he was wrapped up in what could have.

been a dangerous crowd. Although, if he. was I mean, he was clearly keeping some. secrets of his own from certain family. members because his aunt says that Ethan. was working as a tax consultant at his. father's like income tax business. So, I don't know that they're connecting. it to like Charles's paranoia like it or. if they're saying the paranoia is. separate and Charles did it because it. was a drug thing. I don't know, it's a. little like convoluted and muddy. Either way, at first investigators. suspect that there could be a connection.

between Ethan's murder and Marcus's. disappearance. And when the Rutledge. family hears about Ethan's death, they can hardly believe it. Marcus's. sister, Felicia, is devastated [music]. cuz in her mind, Ethan was the one. person who could fill in maybe someday. all the blanks about her brother, and. now he's gone. But Charles's arrest is a. hopeful sign for Marcus's dad, David, because he figures that once police. start like pushing on Charles, maybe the. dam will burst, and maybe they can.

finally find his son. But, here comes another unexpected. twist. I wish I could tell you more about what. investigators learned from Charles, but there is not much info available. We. know that a preliminary hearing is held. later that March. Charles is emotional. He's sobbing at times and like shaking. his head throughout the proceedings. The.

judge finds sufficient evidence to send. the case to a grand jury, but it doesn't look like Charles is ever. actually indicted. Or if he is, the DA. decides not to pursue it because the. murder charge just disappears. What? How? I guess there just wasn't enough to. move forward. I mean, the headline for. Kirk Logan's article about the prelim. was literally "Hearing Short on Evidence. in Bellevue Slaying." So, the evidence.

presented by the state, I mean, we know. was mostly circumstantial. Like, I mean, they had witnesses who could talk about. Charles's behavior. They could talk. about the fact that he had guns, but. they couldn't actually connect him to. the murder itself or even, like I said, establish a clear timeline or motive. But, I thought his gun was used to kill. Ethan. >> No, he just had the same type of gun. >> Oh. >> as the one used to kill Ethan. What about that witness who ID'd him.

dropping Ethan's car, though? Not. enough. Detective Filter thinks that the. DA. in the end just like wasn't confident. that they could get a conviction, so. they just dismissed the charges, probably hoping that they'd be able to. build a stronger case later. But for. whatever reason, that never happened. Ethan's murder is still considered. unsolved today. And when it comes to any. connection between Ethan's murder and. Marcus going missing, while there might. be some witness overlap between the. investigations,

police say they've never been able to. establish any direct link between the. two. Though it's interesting, Detective. Filter says that as far as he can tell. from the case file, investigators only. really looked at Charles. Like there's. nothing showing that they ever dug into. Cowan or his associates in connection. with Marcus's disappearance. And then we. asked him about it, he told us like, "Yeah, you know, that's an angle maybe. worth exploring." Which like, yeah. But. no one has in oh, about three decades.

>> No. I mean, um, to me the timing alone, the home. invasion a day after he went missing, not to mention the red car stuff. >> I know. It definitely raises like a couple of. questions at least. >> Right. Plus, we know that Cowan was. already being looked at for other. violent crimes at that point, right? So, I don't know, we'll have to see we'll. have to wait and see if Filter pursues. that lead. Oh, and we actually did try. and to get in touch with Cowan, who was. actually released from prison more than.

a decade ago and is out there on parole, but we couldn't reach him. And Charles, who has been in and out of lockup over. the years for various crimes, he is in. prison now on drug-related charges, so. we couldn't make contact with him. Now, whether or not any of these guys. were involved, police still believe that. Ethan knew more than he let on and that. he took some secrets about Marcus's. disappearance to his grave. Do they have any theories about where.

Marcus could be? I mean, as similar and connected as these cases. seem, it's. it stands out so much that Marcus just. vanished [music] while. Ethan was just shot and left in his home. on the floor. Like, why the difference? Well, I mean, they don't have any. theories on a connection because they. can't prove the cases are connected at. all. So, like, without that link, you. can't even build upon that, right? Like, they're just stuck.

So, that was pretty much it. Like, years. passed, tips aren't coming in, media. coverage is minimal, and the case just. sits there. But, around 2010, something significant. [music]. does happen. The Rutledge family learns that Marcus. had another big secret. They find out that he had a daughter. With who? Tawania. A- another one? No.

But, they never knew he had a daughter. How is that even possible? I mean, didn't investigators know? So, they did. I don't know how this happened, but it. looks like they never communicated that. to his family, which like, why would you, right? Like, I can maybe they thought like, oh, surely they know about this grandchild. >> no need to bring up something so. obvious. >> Right. But, like, wouldn't it come up. when the police were getting basic.

information? Like, if his parents had. mentioned their grandson, wouldn't. someone have said like, oh, and what. about your granddaughter? >> You would think, but it didn't happen. >> [music]. >> And I guess like, the part that I can't. get over is like, the fact that Tawania. never mentioned it either, which makes. you wonder like what other secrets she. had because that feels like a secret. It. doesn't feel like something that just. like gets missed, right? Like they come, they have dinner with her before. They're like. they're all. >> She's like a main contact when Marcus.

goes missing. Like they're. in communication with her. >> Yeah, you would think when she calls. them to be like, "Oh, he's like he's not. answering his phone. Oh, when's the last. time you saw him?" When he went to drop. our daughter off at daycare. That's how. we started the. >> Yeah. >> story. So, it feels like something that. got intentionally left out. >> Mhm. I don't know. [music] I wish we. could talk to her, but we haven't been. able to get a hold of her, like I said. I mean, how did they even find out about. their granddaughter? I don't know the.

exact details of how this unfold. I just. know that Marcus's son somehow connected. with her on Facebook, and then. that's when the rest of the family found. out. So, like it's it's fuzzy. But, this. is one of those that even though it's a. shock, it's at least a good surprise. >> Mhm. >> like they have another little piece of. Marcus to hold on to. And despite Marcus. keeping her a secret, I have to imagine. that even he'd be happy knowing that. they all have finally found each other. And just in time because in 2015, Marcus's mom, Jerri, passes away.

And then in 2020, Detective Filter, who. is in the Nashville PD's Cold Case Unit, he This is when he picks up the. investigation for what started as like a. pretty routine reason. Basically, they. were doing like DNA housekeeping. They. only have DNA from one of Marcus's kids. in CODIS. So, Filter wanted to get more. family profiles into the system so that. they can be prepared if they ever need. to make comparisons, if they ever find. remains. >> Did something specific prompt that? Like. were there remains that could have been.

his that were found? >> Nothing like that. I think he just. wanted to be proactive. He was making. sure all of their bases were covered, and that DNA update was going to be the. extent of it. But, once he started. talking to David and learning more about. Marcus, he just like. I don't know, the case like latched onto. him. He like kept digging. He wanted to. see if he could help the Rutledges like. get some answers some way. Hi, me. Uh big update. So, that was kind.

of where our episode was supposed to. end. Britt and I wrapped it up, did the. usual call to action, but literally just. this last week, like right as we were. about to release this episode, something. huge happened. A major break in the. case. On January 31st, police announced that. Marcus's remains have been found. There. was a skull that had been found by a. hunter back on December 8th, 2010, in. some woods near Ashland City Highway and. Pecan Valley Road.

>> [music]. >> That is nearly 13 mi from where Marcus's. car was found and 30 mi from his. apartment. Now, the sequence of events is a little. baffling for me, and I'm sure. frustrating for Marcus's family who are. still coping with the news. And I say baffling because DNA from this. unidentified skull wasn't uploaded to. CODIS until a month after we interviewed. the police. So, we interviewed them in. October, and then the ME submitted the. skull DNA to CODIS in November. This is.

a 2024, and we don't know why it took so. long. Marcus's DNA had been in CODIS for. years. And you heard right before our. like record scratch moment that even. more of his family's DNA had been added. by Detective Filter to ensure that there. would be enough to get a match to any. unidentified remains that might surface. The DNA match that they got was a match. to DNA collected from Marcus's [music]. daughter. It's just a shame that it didn't come 14.

years sooner. Cuz it puts detectives even further. behind than they would have been in. 2010. Detective Filter told us it is unclear. if police searched the woods thoroughly. at [music] the time when the skull was. found. So, he is planning to do a search. of his own hoping to find more. Because unfortunately, even though they. now know where Marcus has been, [music]. the skull hasn't told them much. There. were no wounds or markings on it that. gave a clue as to how Marcus was killed.

But, detectives are clear that they do. believe Marcus was killed. And this. missing person's case is now actively. being worked as a homicide, which Filter. believed was the case even before. finding Marcus's skull. He believes that Marcus's involvement in. selling weed likely played a role in his. death. The problem is, even after this. major breakthrough, police still have not gotten a single. solid lead. I'm not kidding you, not. even one. And Detective Filter doesn't.

think this case is going to be solved by. science. What they need is for someone. who knows the truth to finally start. talking. Now, Marcus's family, they were. holding out hope for so long that he was. still alive. Like, they held out that. hope till the very end. It's what our. whole ending was about. So, this news was devastating to them. But maybe now that everyone knows where. he was and where he was found, it could. help connect some of the dots about what. happened in those crucial days after. June 8th, 1998.

They are convinced someone out there. knows exactly what happened to him. And maybe you're that someone. So, if you have any information about. the death of Marcus Rutledge or even. Athens murder, contact the department's. Crime Stoppers division at 615-74-Crime. That's 615-742-7463. >> [music]. >> You can find all the source material for. this episode on our website,

crimejunkiepodcast.com. Make sure you hit subscribe, follow us. [music] on our socials, and we will be. back with more episodes here on YouTube, but also you can find hundreds of. episodes on our podcast feed. Just. search for Crime Junkie wherever you get. your podcast.