Maggie Haberman reveals who Trump berated on election night

Maggie, what are you hearing from sources. about what. drove this decision. by the president to replace Susie. Wiles with Stephen Miller? Before I get to that, I just want to remind people. that when the president says he's. not going to fire someone, it doesn't usually mean. much, and often, in fact, means they're going to be fired. pretty soon. So this has been brewing for some time. This was not a surprise. My colleagues. and I reported earlier today. This is not just in recent days. The president has been incredibly. critical of Susie Wales. behind the scenes, to her face, to other people. over the course of the last,

I would say at least six months, if not longer. There have been a bunch of people. inside the administration. undermining her as well. Now, Stephen. Miller is actually not somebody. who I'm referring to in that category. I think that Miller, as allies, made clear that he was fine with Wales. if she stayed on as chief of staff, but they thought that he should get it. if she left. But there were a number of people. who had been raising questions about her. with the president. And yes, the president. berated her in front of other people. on election night in the East. Room, blamed her for the losses. He had also been very critical.

in other circumstances. of James Blair, her close associate. When you have a wave, Caitlyn that. sweeps seats from Mississippi to Maine, that's not really. a tactical campaign decision. And this is a white House. where the policy is. largely set by the president. He does not want to be reined in. He wants decisions to be made. by a small number of people. And he's been berating her. for months. about not finding the quote unquote, leak. related to his travel to Turkey. During the NATO summit over the summer, when he was.

put in the refrigerator, when he was. put in the refrigerator truck, and they told everybody. that he was actually on a plane. that president members. and cabinet members were on, and including Stephen Miller, by the way. Yeah. Well, he was aware of the situation. at minimum, but, they are, at least I should say. But separately, he has been very angry. that there have not been further. prosecutions against, people he perceives. as his political enemies, and he's been complaining. about that for months. So I think this is an aggregate. number of events. This puts a very controversial. and very polarizing figure. now as chief of staff,

and it is coming at a time when Democrats. are a little different. than the Congress. that came in in January of 2019. when those Democrats got elected. These folks have been much more. focused on an economic populist message. about this president, and I'm not sure. what this looks like going forward. Well, and I should also note. that you and your colleagues. were on the verge of reporting. about Trump, right? Talking about replacing Wiles. When the president posted on Truth. Social today, the president had called. a number of people and said.

that he was planning to replace her. He had asked people specifically. what they thought about Stephen Miller. and to a lesser extent, Jay Clayton. But it was very clear. that Miller was in the lead position. for a number of reasons. And yes, after Tyler. Pager and Jonathan Swan. and I reached out for comment, the president. shortly put this out. after a meeting with Susan Wells. I feel like Stephen. Miller was always on the short list. for chief of staff. No one is surprised by that, but I actually did hear. a lot of surprise today. that he actually pulled the trigger. and went with Stephen Miller, just given, of course, the role he's played.

You know, what. he's done. inside the Trump. administration obviously is. very loyal to the president. But what do we think. two years of Stephen Miller. as a chief of staff. looks like potentially. So it's interesting. It reminds me a lot of any time. that the president has faced. some kind of a loss. or some kind of an embarrassment, let's from the Access. Hollywood tape, right. where his response. was to bring Bill Clinton's. accusers to the debate. in Saint Louis in the 2016 campaign, to after he lost the November.

2020 election to maintain that, actually, he had won it. and do everything that he could. instead of seeing what voters. said as a rebuke of this president. and his administration, which it absolutely is. And the Iran war. is obviously front and center. and a lot of it, but it is certainly not all of it. It is a number of events, one of. which is the immigration crackdowns. And so what it tells me is that President. Trump has one move, and it is always more MAGA or more Trump. And this is what you're saying. Do we know how Stephen. Miller lately,

what his view of the Iran war is? We have heard mixed things. I mean, I think that what you saw. very clearly wasn't just Pete. Hegseth standing by, Stephen Miller behind the scenes, our understanding is that Stephen Miller. and Pete Hegseth have been allies. for quite some time. Actually, Jonathan and I wrote about that. in Regime Change. Stephen Miller was key. in putting together this cabinet. And a number of cabinet. officials came into the job, and we were told this by number of people. during our reporting, understanding that Stephen Miller. was somebody who they really needed. to eagerly work with or.

be concerned about crossing. That goes for headset, that goes for talk. launch, that goes for Marco Rubio. And we saw them. working together to Marine One, Marco Rubio and Stephen Miller. I think this might be Pete. Hegseth some time. Pete Hegseth, however, had been known inside. the West Wing. as the biggest champion to the extent. there was one of the war early on. and when most of Trump's. advisors were against it. And he's going to get. impeached, potentially, as soon as next week. And there is the question of. even if he doesn't, there is the question. of passing the defense spending bill.

And so the question becomes. exactly how you do that while insisting. the Pentagon is not a, well, agency. There is one well-funded agency. in this government, and it's the Department. of Homeland Security, which Stephen. also has a lot of involvement with. But this might buy Hegseth time. We'll say. you described the president. the other day. as being in a processing state. One thing that is clear from this move. today is his. What seemed like denial. of what happened on. Tuesday is wearing off, and that he is coming to terms. with what has happened.

and is increasingly unhappy about it. Remember, after the November election, for the first day and a half, he appeared almost in shock. and was saying sort of muted, conciliatory things. to people around him like, we did our best, you know, we really tried. It took a little while. Not not tons of time, but it took a few days for him. to get to the point of actually, you know, do not declare Joe Biden the winner. and let's fight for it. I think you are seeing something. similar like that here in terms. of, by the way, to answer your question. on what Stephen Miller's. view of the war. is, you know,

we don't quite know. exactly what he will do, but we have been told by multiple, multiple people in the administration. is that Miller has been privately clear, that he knows that the Iran war. has been viewed very, very negatively. by the president's base voters. Yeah. And so, in terms of. where the president is on this, I mean, he's also raising the question. that other people. are on the chopping block, not just Susie Wiles here. and undefended Pete Hegseth again, which again, doesn't mean much, but I don't think. I do think he likes that. Personally. I don't think the president. wants to get rid of access.

Who else? It could be. there are any number of people. There are not a number of agencies. that he actually really cares about. I do expect other changes. Well, he cares about two jobs. Chief of staff or the press secretary. One of those is unfilled. Still, in terms. you were nodding your head along. when I was talking about how it is. So Trump won, like inside the West Wing right now. I mean, you really can't. overstate the factionalism. and the fighting of people. who are jockeying for power. or unsure. where their power. kind of lies in this moment.

It has been said for days, months, weeks, I don't know, I think they're all one big, big day. at this point. But it's been. most of this year. has been people describe. sort of the reverting. to the mean. of the infighting. of what had really been. It had always been below the surface. And there's a particular version. of the Trump administration, but they were all kind of unified. in wanting to see him succeed. Or there were a number of people. who were very loyal to Siouxsie. Wiles in The West Wing. And so all of that. created a very different scenario.

for the first year. as we got into this year, and as the president. got more and more frustrated. and as he didn't want to be told no, he wanted. people who were going to help him. get to a yes. You started seeing more. jockeying for power. I will say, of Stephen Miller, it's. not a binary, by the way, in terms of sort of the. the Wiles faction versus. the Miller faction, Miller. is very good at cultivating relationships. inside the administration. Very he was very close with Steve Bannon. at one point in term one, but he was also very close. with Jared Novak. in term one and remained that way. And so I think that it's not quite.

where these lines clear, where these lines play out, but it is ugly and a lot of it. in other areas. right now in terms of the fighting. And it's spilling out onto social media. in a big way. Yeah. I mean, the statements alone. are saying so much, right? Jared Kushner did praise. Stephen Miller. and to do. so to the whole cabinet. in a statement. that the white House put out. Adam, I'm going to start with you, double down. That is what the president is doing here. That is a signal that he is sending, by putting Stephen Miller. into the most powerful position.

in the white House, apart. from the president himself. What do you think is going on? And what do you think it signals? Yeah, let's look at some numbers. here for a second. Republicans just lost Latino. Americans by 28 points. Swing towards Democrats. They lost Asian-Americans. with a 17 point swing towards Democrats. People are rejecting Donald Trump. And after this overwhelming rejection, he decided to double down. and promote the most extreme, hateful, white nationalist, insane person. to the chief of staff.

position in the white House. He is doubling down on the hatred, doubling down on the extremism in rallies. and trying to reach out. to the minority voters. that he just lost in huge swaths. He is deciding to go down. that path even further. It's going to be a dark few years. and Americans. are going to reject this Libya. I mean, to Adam's point, it does seem like. Stephen Miller is Donald. Trump spirit animal. I mean, it's. it's like his ID unleashed in some ways. He could. have made a number of different choices. that might have signaled.

a different path. But instead, he really chose. someone that is widely disliked. and isn't known for his conciliatory, overtures to the left. So first, there is some important context. On election night, Trump actually. kind of extended an olive branch. that he wanted to work with Democrats. And then in the last 72 hours, we've seen, you know, the base just wants to go. after this son of a bitch. As Carville. said, we've seen numerous tweets. about lawfare putting people in jail. And so I think that. has certainly informed.

Donald Trump's decision. He recognizes. he need. somebody who's going to be a fighter amid. all of these investigations. One other point on Stephen Miller, you know, obviously. we know him. best for his fiery moments on television, but he is actually involved. in a lot of different. facets of the administration. He's well-liked by the Ma group. He was involved with UFOs. Some of the DOJ's efforts, and he's been on Capitol Hill. He understands the ins. and outs of policy. He spent his entire life doing this. So I think he is an important asset. for the president.

One other point I want to make, you know, obviously, following a bloodbath for Republicans, there's a moment. where I think the reevaluating. what did and, more so what didn't work? Are they. citing the DOJ effort as a success? Yes. I want to make one point. I want to make this. very clear. that the war on terror. for the corruption, the cost of living were. that's the reason why Republicans lost. If you if you look, if you look at the immigration issue, surprisingly, that was one issue.

where Republicans were trusted. more than Democrats. Yeah. Not all, not there, I think. No, this exit. these were in this publicans. discard immigration at their peril. I think look the way. that that has been enacted, particularly under Christie. No. Where you have. deportation Barbie. taking photos in front of prisons, that was not effective. If Miller can actually get this. agenda done in a effective way, what. does that rely on? Small. That's what agenda. Lydia. What agenda is Stephen Miller?

Actually, I'm. waiting to the exit polling. that shows voters. prefer, shockingly, Republicans. like me on the issue, but only on immigration. But I think you need to dissect. that immigration policy. No one, I don't think, will disagree. that yes, people did like the way Donald Trump. secured the border. And there have been Democrats. in that. that won this cycle that said as much. But you cannot sit here. and honestly think. that the killing of Alex Peretti,

the snatching of people, the man who did family separation, which in the first Trump administration. is when, polling started to go against. Donald Trump on his policies, immigration, that is, Stephen Miller. And Stephen Miller also is a part. of the immigration. overreach that they went into cities. and they snatched nannies. and they took kids away. from their parents. and they separated families. That is Stephen Miller. And that is, I think, also a part of what. we just looks like a Terry. I mean, what I'm curious about here. is that you have had a historic loss.

I mean, this is. just not even a shellacking. This is. I don't even know the word. that we can use anymore to describe that. Now, 75% of the country. is going to be governed by Democrats. This is an enormous rebuke. And the president. seems to just be impervious to that. What is he. what is he thinking. is going to play out here for him? Well, I think one of the things he wants. Stephen Miller to do is fight. the oversight that's coming his way. And Miller will do that. is he's a lawyer. and he's going to be ferocious. and just turn down. and and try to tear apart.

any effort by the Democrats to get at. what was one of the top issues. in the campaign, the corruption. The other thing. he's trying to do. is give a shot of energy. into a demoralized movement. that he began. ten years ago, that he saw disintegrating. in front of his eyes. And the way to do that is to say. we are still here. The problem with Stephen Miller. being the guy for that. is that, you know, corruption, affordability and corruption, the top two issues. But within that, if you listen to people, the craziness. Yeah, the daily Wagnerian Götterdammerung,

you know, of of insanity, of rage, that politics is dead. And Stephen Miller. was the public face of immigration. until the president looked at polls. and realized people hate this guy. Yeah, well, then the Democrats. should be celebrating this, because at the end of the day, they've got control of the House. and they have the control of the Senate. What I think the pushback is from. Democrats is the fact that. they actually have. to go up against this guy. He does, in fact, get the base of the MAGA. movement excited.

And that was a key issue. going into these midterms. where they weren't as enthusiastic. And today, if you look at. how the MAGA base has responded, they're quite enthusiastic. They like this. And the other issue here. with Susie Wiles, number one, it's. not unheard of, obviously, that you make changes. after a midterm loss. So pushing that part aside, Susie Wiles is not comfortable. going on camera. She's not comfortable. fighting for the president in public. She does a lot of the work, all of the work in the background. Stephen Miller quite the opposite.

And you might not like his policies. Yeah, he's a policy wonk. and he knows how to put together. policies. One of the thing I'll say. is that do. the Republicans like this, though, that they do the Republican Party, you're talking. Well, let me just say this. After the election, a lot of people came on and said, I think this is the end of MAGA. Well, if we're still trying to revive MAGA, everyone the 25 for the remaining 25%. that are still in Congress, because the senators. who weren't on the ballot. Right, the governors. who weren't up this day,

Stephen Miller helped them in 2028. Does he help JD Vance? Does he help Marco Rubio? Does he help Ted Cruz? Does he have Josh Hawley? He actually helps JD Vance. But I don't think JD. Vance can ultimately be, is it. not in the short term, I we're talking about this. as if there's some big master plan. And I, I'm a little skeptical of this. I want to play. what actually Trump said about. why he wanted to elevate Stephen Miller. There's people describing Stephen Miller. as your wartime Consiglio.

All right. Do you agree with that characterization? He's a great fighter. He's been with me. right from the beginning 2015, from before 2016, 2015, and. he's very loyal, smart. He has a great job. He's been an MVP every year. He's been just great. So we're very happy with him. I mean there it is. It's he's an MVP. He's a fighter. And you know what we do understand. But let me let me finish. What we do understand is that Trump.

still wants to pursue his agenda. and wants to do it. through executive action, sort of bypassing the Congress. There's reporting to suggest that. And if that is your view, you don't want to cut deals. with the Democrats coming in. You don't want to. you want to pretend that this election. basically didn't happen. I guess Stephen Miller's your guy, but but none of that is accurate. He he said he wants. to actually negotiate, but the Democrats have indicated. just within the last two days. that they're actually not interested. You don't have to. you have to have happen.

is have someone there ready. to enact your agenda. if you need to enact it. in a more aggressive way. This idea that, of course, he wants to go down the executive, what you want. Yes. Because he doesn't have control. of the Congress. I think he's going was. it was this a mandate on Tuesday? The Democrats get a mandate, I think no, I don't believe in mandates. in the sense that you're talking about. Okay. And when again, when you look specifically. at the exit polls. and when you look at. what actually passed, there was a. is undoubted that I don't. you don't have to persuade me. whether it was man,

I just want to know where you are. Yeah. Do you think Tuesday was a mandate. No. Did you think for divisive ideas. No. I think the. the election was about. was a rebuke of President Trump. and the agenda. 2024 was a mandate. No, I like it. So the way I generally do think. and 20 what. any politician. who thinks any victory is. a mandate is very. So you remember that 2024 was a mandate. Adam, I, I think it's shortsighted. you're elected to serve the people, to think that you are. I,

I don't buy that you believe. that it's a mandate. for the Democrats to pursue, you know, whatever policies. that they would want to pursue. over the course of the next few years. But again, if you look at the specific issues. in which people actually voted, I think it's something you have to do. You have to deliver for three. blue states, Colorado. and Washington state, saying no to biological boys. competing against girls. You have voter ideas that were passed. Let's remember you have a California. California sending me. you chief of staff right now. I Stephen Miller California saying no.

to a billionaire to hold on. some of the biggest Democrats. Oh, no, Jason, we're rejected. You are using the same points. that just cause Democrats to win Texas. You were repeating the same. The same point. as telling you. how they voted when the issue was in you. Let me point out in a number of blue. Let me point out really quickly. Steven Miller is appointment. as chief of staff. is going to backfire on Republicans. Americans voted for corruption. and celebrate unity. Just let me finish. James Talarico is running on. He ran on a message of unity in Texas,

and he hoped the ass of your guy.