Bill Gates calls AI ‘the most dangerous technology’ ever invented

Open AI CEO Sam Alman says the world should  accept some bad things happening in order to. get the benefits of AI. The latest bad thing on  Friday, rival AI company Anthropic revealed that. its AI agents went rogue and accessed government  websites applying for State Department visas, even submitting a false tip about a homicide to  Philadelphia police. My next guest is a tech icon. who says we're not doing enough to prevent some  of these bad things from happening. And joining.

me now is Microsoft co-founder and chair of the  Gates Foundation, uh, Bill Gates. Uh, thanks so. much for joining us. We've already seen these AI  models go rogue and hack platforms and government. websites. These are just the incidents we know of.  I I can't imagine there aren't many, many more we. don't know about. You know, many of these tech  leaders personally. Do you think they're being. fully transparent and fully sincere with the  public when it comes to their own concerns and.

fears with this technology and the true risks?  Well, I don't think there's any industry that's. ever been as open about uh their concerns. The  imbalance we have is you have a lot of concern in. the industry but then academics, policy makers,  uh politicians, they have far less awareness of. how complex and how powerful these tools are. And  so as that awareness develops, the a lot of policy.

sophistication will come in. For example, should  kids have an emotional relationship with the AI? uh how can the AI complement the teachers in  school and uh you know be more of a a thing to. drive curiosity than just a tool basically for  cheating on an essay or a paper and you know. if you look at various countries China's banned  you know children having relationships with the.

eye there's some that are are much further ahead  and some of the the negatives uh that uh I think. the industry is is trying to get attention to. You  have called AI aliens created in a lab that could. evolve almost as a species of its own and become  to us what quote we are to dogs or cats unquote. And you've said this isn't just a technological  leap. It's a quote evolutionary event. That sounds.

scary. That sounds ominous. Yes. The arrival of AI  is both fantastic uh for things like health care. and new tools uh you know really unbelievable  but it's also something that has such profound. power and really changes uh life in a pretty  profound way that I always worry when people.

look back at previous technological advances, you  know, like I was involved in the personal computer. and the internet, those were a big deal. Uh, but  nothing compared to this. You know, this changes. the world more than all uh previous technologies.  And we got to get everyone on the same page about. what a big deal this is. And you've warned that  AI could make it much easier for bad actors to.

develop deadly boweapons. You said the risk  of having a bioteterrorist attack is now 50. times the risk of a natural pandemic. How soon do  you think that nightmare scenario could happen? Are we talking imminently? And are our leaders  doing enough to make sure it does not happen? Well, no, we're not doing enough. The front that  we'll probably see most dramatically in the next. year is cyber attacks because there there's a  known business model where you know you threaten.

to do something and ask somebody to pay you for  that or you you know create a disruption that. changes something in the stock market or some  uh betting thing that you go and do. And so, uh, the real danger right now is not the AI  getting out of control. We need to work on that, but that's, uh, years away in terms of the  the big impact that might have. It's really.

bad people using AI, particularly in AI where you  can take out all the safeguards. You know, we put. in safeguards to try and avoid you doing cyber  attacks. We put safeguards in to avoid you doing. uh bioteterrorism, but right now you're allowed  to take all those safeguards out. So when you. have bad people, no safeguards, and then the the  latest models, that's where over the next year,

primarily in the Siberia, we are going  to have a a a lot of negative surprises. Sam Alman called some of the scenarios  that people are envisioning about AI. quote so dystopian that they sound like the  plot of bad science fiction movies unquote. He warned against people falling into quote the  trap of doomerism unquote. Now you've called AI. the most dangerous thing ever that makes nuclear  weapons look like nothing. Sam Alman it sounds.

like would suggest that you are falling into  the trap of dumerism. How would you respond? Well, all responsible AI leaders uh including  Sam Alman, including including Dario Amade, uh they are telling the world this is very  concerning the way that gets articulated in. terms of potential negative scenarios. Yes, it can  get overblown when people act like all of humanity.

is at risk in some intimate way. That is going too  far. But say compared to cars or planes or drugs, you know, all things that I think we're pleased  that we have significant regulatory capability. to try and keep people safe. This is more  dangerous than any of those. And so, uh, you know, there are, uh, some grim possibilities if we  don't don't maintain control. And I do think the.

industry is doing its job to raise the alarm bell.  Uh but uh this idea that if if we're judicious, we can minimize these risks. Uh maybe that's not  coming across particularly because the government. sometimes, you know, goes to the extreme of  let's not have any safeguards or let's completely. stop this. you know, finding that middle ground  like we did with planes and cars and medicines,

uh, that we don't have a lot of sophistication  right now, but I do believe that middle ground. exists. So, you talk about planes and cars  and medicine, there's regulatory models uh, and and organizations for all of that. Uh,  planes, there's the FAA, medicine, there's the. Food and Drug Administration. Exactly. Exactly. We  don't have anything like that right now. And what. we're hearing from our leaders in Washington are  these organizations should should self-p police.

uh and the FBI and Justice Department, you  know, making sure that crimes don't happen. That's sufficient. I think there are a lot of  people, I'm sure yourself, who think it's not. sufficient. Are you concerned at all about this  self-governing idea? I think over the next year. we'll move beyond self-governance. The idea that  for the most dangerous technology humans ever.

invented that that's the final word word that  just the companies themselves uh are the only. check that society has particularly when this idea  of what safeguards do you need? Uh you know it's. clear we're not doing enough. we see through these  incidents. So I do think over the next year uh the. idea that government has to get more sophisticated  and we will have uh safety groups like we do for.

those other domains. I think that'll become  quite obvious to people. I'll certainly be a. strong voice for that. One of the other concerns  obviously is what this uh AI means in terms of job. losses and you've said that the the breadth of  job losses from AI across virtually all sectors. is going to be unprecedented. You're calling for  certain occupations in in education and health. care for for instance to be reserved for humans.  Do you think that there's any appetite among our.

political leaders, among our business leaders to  do that if there is money to be saved or made? Yeah. I think this idea that you have to  reserve things for humans, uh, you know, because I'm looking at how fast these models  are improving and what the incentive is to. use the AI in place of human labor. You know,  I'm looking out and saying in the years ahead,

we really do need to make a decision as a society.  How do we tax AI usage or robot usage and where do. we want to make sure the human jobs are preserved?  Until people get their mind around how powerful. this is and therefore what it's going to be  doing to these jobs. The idea that you need. to reserve things for humans may sound bizarre,  but in fact, you know, we will get there and then. we will decide politically uh are there things  that we think only humans, you know, should be.

allowed to do. Before you go, sir, just quickly  um since you've been making your concerns known, especially have have you heard from President  Trump or any of the leaders in Washington? Well, I've certainly heard from a a number of  politicians. Uh, and you know, I'm hopeful in. time I'll get my chance uh to talk with President  Trump and his key people. Um, you know, I the more.

time that's spent on this, the better because  we are not yet where we need to be. All right, Bill Gates, thank you so much for your time and  your expertise. We really appreciate it. Thank.