Miguel Performs & Talks Beyoncé, Rihanna, J Cole, Drake, Jamie Foxx, Kendrick Lamar & New Album CAOS

Of all the artists that you've worked. with, who would you like to collab and. do an album with? >> Man, [music] I was just texting Cole. >> Really? >> Oh, bro. I'm sitting here on Shay Shay. >> Tell him welcome anytime. >> in the interview [music] real quick. But. Shay say what up? [laughter]. >> All my life been grinding all my life. Sacrifice hustle paid the price. [music]. Want a slice. Got to roll a dice. That's. why all my life I've been grinding all. my life. [music]. All my life been grinding all my life. sacrifice hustle paid the price a slice.

like to roll a dice. That's why all my. life I've been grinding [music] all my. life. Hello and welcome to another episode of. Club Shay. I am your host Shannon Sharp. I'm also the proprietor of Club Shay. Stopping by for conversation on a drink. today is a Grammy award-winning singer, a multiplatinum selling songwriter, an. R&B superstar. A career that spans over. two decades, his music has transcended. generations. A creator of timeless. music, a pre a premier genre defining.

progressive artist, a global pioneer, a. visionary, a trailblazer, a talented. musician, guitarist, stage performer, producer, sought-after collaborator. He's here to perform two songs off his. new album called Chaos. The first song. is titled Always Time. Here he is, ladies and gentlemen. Miguel. Broken glass, [singing].

piercing words. [music]. You change so [singing] fast, yet it hurts. Rocky past, [music] lessons learned. [singing] Don't. say it's too late. I thought there was. time. And you love [singing] this hard. and you try this hard,

but it's still not enough. [screaming]. Maybe this time love means [singing]. letting go. Letting go. Letting. [singing] go. Maybe this time love means letting. [singing] go. Letting go. letting go. [music]. Maybe this time love [singing] me. [music].

Letting go. [singing and music]. Private truths, [singing]. [music] public woes. All my favorite. songs [singing]. are highs and lows. Laugh [music] with the world or cry. alone. [singing]. No, it's too late. I thought there was. always. time. [music]. When you [singing] laugh this hard.

and you cry [singing] this hard, but it's still not [singing] enough. Maybe this time love means [singing]. letting go, let it go, [music] letting. go. Maybe this time love means letting go, let it go, letting go. [singing].

Maybe this time love me. [music]. Oh, when you cry and you try, cry and. you cry. Fight and you fight. All [music and singing] the opposite. ways that you grew. May this time love [singing] me. [music]. [music]. Letting go. Let.

go. [screaming]. >> [music]. >> Let go. Oh, [music]. broken glass. [music]. You change so fast. Yeah.

Rocky, lessons learned. I know it's too late. I. thought there was always [singing]. time, [applause]. >> man. That's amazing. >> This episode is brought to you by Prize. Picks. The hard-hitting football action. is even better with Prize Picks. The. weather might be changing, but the. feeling right now never gets old. So,

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>> I can tell when someone sings a song and. it's coming from a place of hurt, >> when it's coming from a place of. disappointment because you pour all. those emotions into that song. >> and I could feel it. >> when you perform when you How did this. song come about? >> Yeah, this is uh and thank you. That's. um that's the goal, you know, is to to. make music that still. carries the the the. emotion in it, right? Um that's why we.

love music. We love music. Uh. >> um. >> especially we can we can relate, >> man. It's a trip. [laughter]. It's it's really a trip. Um because I. grew up always, you know, I'm a very I'm like loyal to a. fault kind of kind of. >> that's how I know how to love. That's. how I've taught been taught how to love, you know, is. >> um love covers all things, you know. It. it. >> bridges all things, heals all things.

And um and I think for for. this song, it tracks all of the growth and the and. the learning about love. >> in the lyric and in the message because. it started out as a man Shannon, I. started a song as like a it was a. positive song, >> right? >> It was a song like there's always time. and because of love there's always time. It was a hope, you know, it was a.

hopeful song. >> It there's a lot of faith in the song. And um and um over time I I think I've. learned, >> you know, that love sometimes actually means. caring so much about and loving someone. more than yourself and what you want. um so as to act on behalf of them to. protect them, you know. And I think the. song. It's crazy the song kind of evolved like.

that and I realized that maybe we were. growing in, you know, I was growing in a. different direction. >> and um and I and it's it's it's a trip. The song kind of it it it encapsulates. like a a whole relationship, you know. >> Normally when we love something so much, we want to hold it closer. We want to. pull it to us. We don't want to let it. go. But you say this time maybe it means. letting go, letting go. letting go. Maybe I love you so much.

>> Maybe the best way that I can show you. that I really love you is to let you go. >> Mhm. That's it. >> That's a it's a hard it's a it is lesson. >> because you see you understand how. that's. >> oxymoronic. >> is that [laughter] normally normally we. we love something we want to hold it. We. want we don't want to let it go. >> It's counterintuitive. For sure. For. sure. especially when you're raised that. to to you know again like I said like. you know love really covers all things.

you know and so. >> um yeah it's definitely one of those. ones as a as a human being that I've I. learned um over the course of a of a. long span of my life you know a period. of my life where uh there's a lot of. growing and learning in real time. >> right you have a song reflects. How hard is it to end a relationship. when you do love someone? >> I always think, Miguel, that a.

relationship, ending a relationship is. easy if you the one that want to end it. >> Valid. >> It gets difficult when you don't want. to. Yeah. You on the other end. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> But how hard is it? Because you know, like you said, it's it's that tug that I. love you, but I got to let you go. because uh. >> I mean, we we've um. we've all had to let go of things that. we didn't want to. That's just a part of. life, you know. I think when it really. gets hard is like.

>> when it's become a part of um when it. becomes a part of your everyday reality, you know, it's reality. It's like um it. makes it really challenging. and and it is like one of those ones. that I think proves proves real real um. consideration. and. care um to to be able to go you know.

what actually. nope can't I can't I can't um fulfill. what is deserved. here, you know. >> Um, and. it's a song like this that actually. helped me heal. Always time actually. really helped me heal. And and and. hopefully like all the songs on this. album, it. it really actually helps people.

understand that like we all have things. that. we're trying to clarify in life. and. we're all trying to do the best that we. can and um sometimes some things we get. and it comes very naturally. I took to. walking and running and riding a bike. completely naturally. You know, >> I've realized over time that like. ironically communication is not my. strong. >> You would think that as a songwriter and. as a musician, you know, that my.

communication skills would be I thought. they were so much stronger and better. than they actually are. And it took some. it took some time. this song being one. of the indications and the writing of. this album that I that I learned that. there was a lot of work to be done. there. And um and that's I think. everybody's got their own things that. they're they're clarifying and working. on. But that's one of the ones. So I'm. really happy that it came together on. this song cuz I don't think I've been. able to put it together like that um. before like that.

>> What if you're communicating in a. language she doesn't understand? >> Man, isn't that the crazy thing? I just. learned about um not just because we've. heard like love styles, right? That. people have different ways of like. communicating, but. >> I just learned about apology styles. Like I didn't know that there were. different styles and that we receive. apology in different ways. Yes. Right. So like me personally, what I've learned. is that I'm a um by action, planned. action. So like um when I apologize,

it's best for me and it's the most. meaning for me to say, well, you know, I. I what I what I'm understanding you say. is I did A, B, and C, and that made you. feel. >> A, B, and C. >> And so next time when this happens, what. I'm going to do is do this, this, and. this. >> Okay. >> How does that feel? You know, that to me. is how. >> I I've learned now is the most. >> that's um.

>> the most impactful way of me saying I'm. actually really. >> I'm really a I'm really a I'm really. sorry, you know, action and vice versa. I receive it that way. >> So, um. >> so I've been learning so much, man. We. we're just learning and and um I do. think that like look it wasn't like it. was given to us you know everything we. we got a lot of great teaching and then. we got some things that need to be built. on and you know so. >> these are definitely ones that that have. made a difference for me. >> You and your ex your wife you guys dated.

from the time you were 19 until the time. you were 36. >> Man we really jumped into this one. >> I was asking for it. [laughter]. >> I was asking for it with the song. >> Yes. Because. >> is that what you mean when you've. invested so much? You talking about 19, you're a teenager and here you are in. your late 30s. >> Yeah. >> And having to walk away after you've. invested so much time. And this is what. I tell people, Miguel, is that. >> the more you invest in something, the. more it hurts when it doesn't work out. >> Man, that. >> it hurt me to lose because I know how.

much time I invested in lifting those. weights and meetings and the way I ate. and the discipline I had of not going. out and denying myself certain things. So you damn right it hurt when it didn't. work out. When you spend this amount of. time with someone, >> you think, "Okay, this is it. I got I. got someone that didn't when I didn't. have anything, >> right?". >> And she see this maturation as we go. through this thing called life. >> And damn. >> Yeah, >> baby. What? >> And I'm sure you're asking yourself, "What? What? Where did I go wrong? Where.

did we go wrong? What happened?". >> No, I know. I know where I went wrong, though. Okay. I wasn't whole though. I was And. I'm not saying that I'm like, "Oh my. god, I'm I'm I got all the answers now.". >> But um. >> even being able to say and admit that. I'm not whole. >> and to and to come to it, it completely. changes the the way that I approach. things. you know, >> it's more as a student. is more at a. from a place of well what I do know is.

this is where I'm leading from and this. is this is what um is guiding and and. >> and. directing my decision making and. um it's such a domino effect when you. can't start like that you know at 19 and. especially at 19 and coming into. um into really wanting to focus on your. career and all of that.

>> Um, >> I was in not I wasn't in the headsp. space to be with anyone and I didn't. know how to I didn't communicate that, you know. >> So, there's a lot of things that I did. wrong. I did I set up with with my ex I. set it up. >> I didn't set it up properly, you know. I. didn't I didn't build. just build the the the the trust as a. just a friendship to protect that later. on. the the the becoming a relationship. >> the way that I could have, you know, I.

think if I was to do it again, I would. have I would have really said, "Hey, I'm. actually not ready right now." You know, >> but it also is a trip because, you know, when you meet someone, you're like, "Man, I really there's something special. here.". >> So, I can see where my where where. everything happened. I was young and I. was excited that I had met someone that. I felt was significant, you know, [clears throat] and that we had a real. connection and we did.

>> Yes. >> And um and I think that's what makes it. the hardest now because, >> you know, in there I could have. protected it by by saying, you know, maybe this is too early. This is too. soon. >> And I didn't. But um. >> it's all clear in hindsight. You know. what I mean? >> It's clear in it. >> Yeah. So when you go to her and you say, "Babe, >> I don't think this is working anymore.".

>> I'm sure she probably said, "What do you. mean?" Um, you're like, "Babe, I just. because you're a different person at 19. than you are at 36.". >> You're a different person at 25 than you. are at 35. you know, the the the real. thing is, and I don't want to spend too. much time on it because [snorts]. >> I know that um. I know that we both have a tremendous. amount of love for each other. >> and we're working very hard to.

um. not make it about. what was, >> you know, what what it was, you know, and. >> you know, I think a lot of people. liked the vision of it, you know, and. like the aesthetic and like the and and. ever after. >> Yeah. They there I think we all, you. know, want to there's a part of that. that I think lives in a lot of in a lot.

of the memory of it and the the. symbolism, right? It is like it's a song like this that I. think that allowed me to kind of. look at myself and go, you know, I made a lot of mistakes, man. >> I'm not perfect. Never been perfect. Never said I was perfect. And. >> I'm a much more aware person now. And I hate that I had to learn it the. hard way, >> but we must continue, you know, and this. is the this is the thing in life. though.

I think this song represents always time. represents and that's why when I sing it. >> I'm happy to be in the moment in the. presence of it as honor to the. >> time and effort and the sacrifice that. >> she put in it and and myself I put in it. too. >> um through all of the. just the honor of the whole thing. because it was through time and effort. that we both really had to come to. letting things go and um and And.

she's um she's an amazing person, you. know. She's an amazing person and. deserves deserves the best. >> to move on. >> We all do. >> To move on from this. >> Yeah. >> When things don't go as planned, how did. how does one move on? Because I'm sure. you had Forever After. >> in your plan. That's why you use Wither. for that length of time. And careers. grow blossom growing and everything is. happening. And now how should people how. do people because I I think it's.

different for everybody that you. transition like damn I got I can't just. lie here and wallow and like oh this. didn't work out. I I got to move on. I. got to live. Tomorrow is coming. >> Everybody got to Everyone has to move. move forward. >> Um I mean I'm I live through my music, you know. I'm not I think that's another. thing I think is. >> music decorates time the way that fine. art decorates space, you know. And. every moment of the music that I've.

given is a reflection of that time. Uh, and I like to keep it that way. So, I'm. um, what did Lauren Hill say? If it's. not growing, it's dead. >> Wow. >> I'm a I'm I'm um. I'm just trying to do it better. You. know what I mean? Every day I'm trying. to do it better. So, that's the music is. a reflection of that. And the song is is. really my real letting go, you know? It's my real going. >> Hey, like I've really come to a place.

where I've I understand my mistakes and. I'm um I have remorse for these mistakes. and I've learned the lesson. I've taken. the time to absorb the lesson. And as we. as we know, like you just if you make a. mistake and you don't really learn the. lesson, you're just going to keep it's. going to keep coming back and you're. going to keep hitting the same wall and. and it's going to cause the same pain, right? And so, um, the song means to to.

kind of like be like, you know what, I. got it. Okay. It's time to it's time to. let go and it's time to um it's time to. grow, learn from it, take it. I heard a. guy say many many years ago, lessons not. learned in blood are destined to repeat. themselves. >> But this is our life's work though, right? Everyone everyone has a bit of. their, you know, the things that we.

we've received from our past, from our. family, from our upbringing. >> All of that all that shapes us though. >> Yeah. Pass. It's passed down and we we. we take it on and we make it a part of. our identity. >> And at some point you got to kind of. like. >> take it off. >> Take it off and like look at it and go. like, "Oh, I kind of assumed all of. this," you know, and [clears throat]. then I'm like, "Well, is it do I really. need that?" Like, is it extra? Is it. just extra? Is it just dead weight? Is. it. >> um. >> that's the refining process, man. That's.

that's a part of it. And anyone who's. done anything, I think people who are. doers understands, right? It's like that. journey is a it's a refining process. that continues and continues and. continues. So. >> the road get bumpy sometimes. >> Hey, >> it's not straight either. >> Oh, no. That Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's nonlinear. >> You get a flat tire and the engine run. hot. [laughter]. >> You're you are going to hit the pothole. You going to swerve sometimes. [laughter].

>> Okay. >> I will. >> All right. It's all right. And we going to continue. It's like. that. So, uh, yeah, you know, >> yeah, >> it trigs me out though sometimes how. people get really judgmental. You know, people get really judgmental about it. And I say, you know, the if we're moving. forward, >> moving forward and we're trying like. trying and we're doing actionable things. um to make a a difference in the way. that we behave and how it affects other.

people, especially when it's it's um. it's not good. Like I think that's. commendable, you know, and who is who. are we to judge other people? That's why. I don't I'm not I'm not I don't look at. I don't pay attention to um. to to the way that that things happen. right in the here and now. >> Everybody's on their own journey and got. their own. >> [ __ ] that they got to deal with. You. know what I'm saying? So, >> you know, we just try to do it better.

every day. >> Yeah. >> Let's get into this album. Um congratulations. First of all, congratulations on Chaos. It came out on. your 40th birthday, mate. Let's Let's go. a little closer, man. This Hey, >> was that was that by Was that by plan. that you. >> I don't know. Is that Was it a plan? I. don't know. Salute. I appreciate. >> you. You seem like a guy that's very. thoughtful that you playing things to. the team. >> Oh, listen. I definitely am dropping my. album on my birthday for sure. But it. just so happens that I'm also on your. show, you know, around it. So, it's.

nice. Thank you. Salute. Cheers, brother. That's nice. >> Y'all heard [laughter]. you heard what he said. >> What is that in the back on the back end. of that? >> You know, you taste a little. marshmallow, you know. Yeah. >> Went to Kgnac myself. >> Okay. >> That's the way to get it. Uh-huh. >> Uni Blanc and a petite champagne.

>> Okay. >> Oak barrel. You know, you know the the. concept behind Kgnc for it to be called. a Kgnac, >> it has to originate the first two years. in that region. >> I see. >> And so, uh, a VSOP that this is a, uh, a. VSOP, very special, >> four to six years. >> And then obviously you go, you know, XO. and you go 8 to 10, 8 to 12. And so then. they become the XO. Then it becomes. >> Yes. The longer you longer you let it. sit. But we add no artificial colors, no. artificial uh, no preservatives. So the.

color takes on from the barrel. >> Banger. >> So it's uh we think we've done a great. job and and for you to say, "Yeah, I. like that.". >> Man, that's I mean that's a banger. [clears throat and laughter]. Cheers to that. >> Oh man, >> that's nice. >> Yeah. Sorry. What we talking about? We. were talking about uh the VSOP. [laughter] I said, "Okay.". So I your 40s.

>> So what do you hope to accomplish? What. do you think you missed out you didn't. accomplish in your 20s and 30s that you. say, you know what, my 40s, there are. some things that I didn't do in my 20s. and 30s that I got to make sure I get. done in my 40s. >> I would say I didn't miss out on. anything. I actually got really lucky. early on and I focused so heavily on my. career. So much so that I actually. didn't I did the catching up on my.

personal work in the last 8 years. >> Oh. >> So I sort of focused all of my time and. energy. I think that's another insight. that it took some time to really. understand. [snorts]. Um man, being passionate and being. driven about something really is a. beautiful thing. Mhm. >> But um my learning in the past 8 years. being able to do a lot of catchup work, it's been that you know you it's it's so. important to stay locked in with. yourself so much so that you're you're.

never um making excuses on behalf of. your passion. And I think in real like. just for real for real I did a lot of. like avoiding of my own work that I. needed to do to lock in with me in in in. the. journey of being a musician and wanting. to get the music right and dialing in. and like. >> doing all the things that felt necessary.

in the time um to get the music right. came at the sacrifice. Not necessarily, but I actually actively chose whether I. was conscious or subcon, it was. subconscious, right? >> I just wasn't doing the MI work, you. know, and so for the last eight years. and what this album represents is a lot. of me work. And it's why the album isn't. about love and it's not about sex, even. though that's a part of what's in there. Mhm. >> Um it's it's more about how painful it.

is to be human, you know, and that's why. the the opening lyric on RIP is like, man, can I surrender you to you? All my. defenses are down. It hurts to be human. >> Wow. >> And it really is. It's a challenge. Everybody, I'm sure you felt like, man, it this is. really tough. >> Yep. Of course. >> You know, and and it is that's that's a. part of it. Um, in the last eight years, what I've learned is is is better in. bites. You know what I mean? Like do it. incre do it in incre increments and like.

you can it's more manageable. Um, and so that's how my next 10 years. will be. So, so to answer your question, my focus in the next 10 years is really. like staying locked in with me and. locked in on how I want to feel and. devoting my time and attention to, you. know, left the center black, brown, Latino creators like myself who deserve. to be developed and their ideas um. papered. You know what I mean? Basically, like they great ideas. It.

requires a lot of time, energy, and. development. And um I'm building out a. building out a whole um built out my. whole company. >> around supporting artists like myself, black, brown, Latino, came from. underserved, you know what I'm saying, communities who have ideas that could. serve this world, you know, especially. through their art and their IP. So. that's my next 10. >> What about the sacrifices that it take? [clears throat] You said that sometimes. that you denied your music in order to.

maybe it was to appease someone else or. to do something else when you probably. should have been focusing probably more. on the music and you said in in your 40s. >> you're going to get you're going to get. back to that. Can you share what it's like to to have. to sacrifice to because in order to. sacrifice somebody's going to have to go. without. That's what sacrifice mean. Someone or something has to. >> It has to come from somewhere. >> Somewhere. >> It's got to come from somewhere. >> I'm taking from this bucket. I'm taking. from that bucket. I'm taking from this.

But I'm taking from these buckets to. pour all into one bucket, which is to. make Miguel the best he can possibly. >> Right. Right. Right. Right. That's an. interesting one. And I would actually. ask you, I'm like, how do you know. there's there's so much like anyone. who's done the doers know? Yes, >> doers know that you are at some point in. time it's going to come at the expense. your p your pursuit.

>> is going to come at the expense of. someone else. Leadership [snorts]. >> is also at the expense of the whole is. can't make everyone happy. you're. looking at, okay, well, what's the best. overall? >> It's going to come at the sacrifice of. somebody's immediate happiness, but. overall, it's for the better the bigger. >> That is correct. >> vision, right? >> Um, I think I think what I'd love to get. insight from you is like, you know, like. what is the.

how have you learned to navigate that? Because I mean excellence, we're talking. about excellence in in the highest. performing, most aggressive. and and and not just the sport. I'm. talking about the mentality, >> the headsp space, you know, >> um you know, how do you how does one. navigate. that kind of pressure? Cuz then. >> cuz you really got to then sacrifice and. be like, "Oh, no. I am the best. I am. the [ __ ] I am the everything." Yes.

>> And it kind of like, you know, on the. field, >> you have to believe that, >> right? Then when you leave the field, >> it's hard to turn that off. [laughter]. It's hard to turn that off. And I and I. I've said this before, Miguel. I I've. ruined a lot of relationships for the. simple fact that. I'm not I'm good at compartmentalizing. I can't do two things. I can't love you like I love football. I. can't love you like I love the pursuit. of greatness. Yeah. >> And so I sacrificed kids events, family.

events, relationships. >> That's what killed my relationships. I I. >> I'd have been married for for 30 years. >> Had I had I poured into a relationship. what I poured into football, >> right? >> But when I laid in my bed as a kid, being married or having that one person. next to me, that wasn't that wasn't in. my dream. Yeah. >> My brother always say, "A dream is a. gift you give to yourself.". >> The dream The gift that I gave to myself.

was to get my grandmother out of that. thousand foot block home. >> Valid. >> The dream that I gave to myself was to. make sure my family never had to eat. cold oatmeal and eat the type of animals. that we ate when we were growing up. That was the gift that I gave to myself. >> Looking back on it, could I have done. something different? Yes. >> Mhm. >> But I wouldn't have been this, >> right? >> No possible way. And you talk to anybody. that's that's been great, any athlete, any professional, and people's like, "Well, yeah, look at them guys now.". Yeah, Jeff Bezos has that life now. He.

didn't have that in his 20s and 30s, >> man. >> Bill [clears throat] Gates didn't have. that in his 20s and 30s. Larry Ellison, Zuckerberg, >> they didn't have that. Michael Jordan, Serena Williams, LeBron, Kobe, rest his. soul, Steph Curry. >> Yeah. You get to a point and for me, >> money wasn't the goal. Money is the. tool. Yeah, >> freedom is the goal. >> Freedom is always the that's the one. That's it. >> And so. I I can just imagine the tunnel vision.

>> that a Beyonce. >> that are Michael Jackson, that are. Prince, people that you like yourself, in order to be great, you got to. sacrifice something. >> In the Bible, they talk about sacrifice. Then you had to sacrifice a goat. >> You had to sacrifice something of of. importance. That's the only way. >> There's no other way around it. >> Say it. That's the so the so my my. thinking in in this version is you know.

making the communication about the. sacrifice really clear and. >> really like. upfront. because in that way. >> it also keeps it's kept me more um. what is that uh uh when you are. accountable it's it's kept me. accountable because [snorts]. >> what it actually does is it makes me pay.

more attention in real time and I don't. want to ever. >> spend my you know spend another decade. where I'm just so. >> locked in. >> locked in that I'm missing. other things that are really important. and I think in doing that what I'm what. I've learned is it actually mitigates. ates and and actually helps include. people, include my relationships as. opposed to separating them and.

compartmentalizing cuz I'm good at I'm. good at compartmentalizing too. Mhm. >> And I think any anyone that that is. really locked in on a on a goal, on a. purpose, >> it comes with a territory to be able to. go, >> well, I know that the odds are this and. everyone's saying this and I'm coming. from here and it's unlikely in these. ways and who knows if this is going to. happen. You got to be so. >> [ __ ] in the outside work. I'm focused. on a singular goal, a singular task and.

everything that's going on, I don't I. don't even hear it. It's almost like. when you're at the game, you don't even. hear the crowd. All you do is that. you're running the play and it's total. silence, >> man. >> And then you make a play and you get up. and it's it's chaos. >> Yeah. >> So, when I'm locked in on what I'm. locked in on, I don't hear anything. else. And that's that's bad. You said. something very interesting. It's like. you find someone, everybody says they. can be second. >> until they're asked to be second. man.

>> And um I want you to do your do you do. you but the minute can we go out baby I. got to study. >> I got to watch film. >> I got to go take club sh I got to do. night cap. No I got to go to this thing. >> Yeah you ain't got no time. I said babe. I told you. >> See everybody says that until they're. asked to do that. >> It really is a tough it's tough. It's. tough. It's it's it's hard to understand. unless you're in it. It does make you it. does make you um.

it does make one really appreciate the. ones in our lives that kind of can. understand. Yes. You know, I think what. I've what I want my next 10 my next 10 I. want to be more present. >> Mhm. >> And I think it's also like what I've. learned too is that I could be more. present in the times that I that I I'm. supposed to be, >> right? you know, it's like maximize on. the time that I have when when I have it. and make it really count so that it's.

never. >> so when you're present, you're really. present. You're not thinking about, man, I I really need to get back to the. studio. >> Let me check that email or oh man, I had. this idea. Oh, did I get those files? Oh. man, let me reach out to so and so, man, they had these ideas last time. That's. just, you know, or mine going in other. directions, whatever. but to lock in. with the people that I get in the time. that I have in the most um quality way. >> It's hard when you've never done that in. 40 years to all of a sudden ask.

yourself. >> I'm still learning. I'm still learning, [laughter]. >> but it it's it's really helpful. I think. having having um taken the time to. appreciate the opportunity makes it. makes it more um manageable. Makes it. more manageable. Also with my son too, you know, it's like listen, I gota I. want to maximize time with. >> I'm listening to like Scorpio, Siza, Frank Ocean, Sierra, Ellie, May, Willow, Amaran, Maradus. Do you I mean, what is. it about Scorpios? I mean, what is it. about you guys?

>> We're the best. [laughter]. >> Y'all are dangerous. >> Look, don't get me in trouble. >> Scorpios are dangerous. >> I mean, look, we're we're um we're. definitely passionate, >> driven, you know, um again, loyal to a. fault. M uh you know effective I think. that can that can rub people the wrong. way. >> For me communication. is the is the key you know and learning. how better to communicate. I I I. realized this too that I went to music.

because I didn't know how to say how I. was feeling and I didn't feel like I had. a place to say how I was feeling. >> and it became the place that I went to. express myself. Right. >> So, it makes sense now in my in in this. time in my life when I reflect that all. the times that I thought I was. communicating that I wasn't it wasn't. it wasn't effective. I wasn't doing the. thing. >> Well, you was communicating. It was only. a language that you understood. >> Exactly. [laughter]. Or just communicating with myself.

>> If you're a Scorpio, you know, you might. just be talking to yourself. >> You know, you go in those shops and get. your nails and they be talking. [laughter] You're like, I wonder what. they saying. Well, you thought you was. communicating. She was like, I wonder. what he think he's saying to me cuz I. don't get what he's saying. >> Yeah. >> And vice versa, >> right? >> So, you're going to have to learn, you. know, sometime we might have to learn a. second language in order to communicate. with our partner so we both understand. what what she needs and she understands. what you need. >> Also, we speak different languages like. like c like you have you ever noticed. like your friends like or you know who.

whomever just they hear things a. different way. Mhm. >> So sometimes you just got to know like, okay, they're going to hear that like. that, so let me just be cognizant. If I. say it like this, they're going to. receive it like this. That's the. consideration that you have when you. care about somebody, >> you know? You know, you I'm I had to. learn that [laughter] because I'm like I. would say something and I just. automatically assume they would. understand what I'm talking about. >> And I'm like, why can't you?

But what I said was, "Well, you said it. like this and then what what what you. you know.". >> Okay. >> I've I've had to learn. >> Yeah. >> to be very specific, Shannon. They're. not in your head. >> They don't think like you think. >> you don't they don't feel like you feel. They don't see it how you see it. That. was the hardest thing cuz I'm saying. something. I'm like, why you why is. that? So I'm like, >> why is that bothering you? Why why does. that bother you? All I said was this, this, and this. And and I meant it like. this. you know, but but it's learning,

you know. Excuse me. I'm going to. [laughter]. >> let Miguel, what's what's the what's. your favorite song that you've recorded? >> A song called Plato right now. Right. now, there's a song on this album called. Plato, which is about um the sacrifice. that all of our well that we make that. life requires. Again, sacrifice is what. >> that that [snorts] life requires. and. all of the sacrifice that we are the uh. the summation of.

>> Okay. >> Be it our parents and their parents and. their parents before them. It took a lot. of luck to be here and a lot of. sacrifice. And um that song is about how. proud I am to have have gone through. what I've gone through and whether it. was the easy way or the hard way to have. learned what I've learned and to and to. have my soul intact. You know, I think. that's the the thing I'm the most proud. of is that, you know, I've done a lot of. things that I I wouldn't repeat, you.

know, and I've I've um I've. decided that. actionably I will do things like this. and operate like this with a lot of. consideration. >> And um I'm proud of myself, man. And. that song is is about [snorts] the the. fight that we all have to get to that. place of like, man, I'm really actually. proud of myself. I've been through A, B, and C. And. >> you know what? My soul is still. standing. There's a line in there. Um.

Um, which is like the same blood as my. father. >> Okay. >> Um Um. which is broken but soul standing. And. how many times have we all been broken? How many lives have we lived where we've. gone, you know what? >> Let me figure it out and do it better. and done it. >> You got to be proud of yourself for. those times, you know, and. [clears throat] and keeping your soul. intact is probably one of the hardest. things. So,

>> man, that song is one of my I'm the most. one of the most proud I'm the most proud. about that song, especially on this. album. >> Do you feel you've learned more from. mistakes? I wrote a song on my first album called. Hard Way and it's the lyric is like I. always learn the hard way. >> I wish I didn't write that song because. maybe maybe I spoke it into Yeah. There's power [laughter]. there's power. They say there's power in. the tongue. There's power in the pen, >> bro. In the pen, man. It's I It's I've. learned a lot a lot of things by. mistake. Um I hope wisdom.

>> um leads in my next 10. [laughter]. >> I hope I leave it wisdom, you know. Uh, sure thing. That's what that that song. >> One of those ones, man. >> That's really good. I drink my skyline. I'm like, man, that's really good. >> That That's Well, I appreciate I. appreciate. he turned his life over. >> So, he ain't [laughter]. switch my whole sneeze.

>> See me with the VSOP. >> Yeah. >> So, hold on. Sure thing. If you be the cash, I'll be the rubber. band. >> Right. >> You be the match, I'll be the fuse, >> bro. >> Yeah, >> she had she had you like that. >> Y'all were No, y'all were like that. >> Um, my pen was like that. [laughter]. >> How could I Look, I'm going to be honest. with you, man. I will um I'm a dreamer. I think every every artist knows how to.

dream their emotion, you know, and. they're pulling from emotion to to make. the dream. real in in their practice. >> And um I was 19. There was no way I. could experience I could have I never. knew love like that, >> but I knew that I wanted love like that. >> Okay? And I knew that um. you know I was in a relation you know wi. with with my significant other we were.

we were. we I feel like even early on we felt. really like oh no like this is special. >> Mhm. >> So I always feel that way you know. I. always I always [snorts] have that. regard. It's in that song but I didn't. necessarily know what that meant when I. was writing it. I was I was that was my. pin. Yeah, cuz I was like, damn. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I I actually still carry my money in a. rubber band. So, you dig?

>> I do. >> I actually I actually do. Um, >> a lot of times, you know, you you hear. you hear artists say, you know, they get. this from an inspiration, uh, you know, a relationship or this. something in their childhood. But you. said at the time you just wrote that you. weren't I mean obviously you had just. started with your significant other that. you was with for an extended period of. time. But I'm like y'all you felt that. like that's what you wanted. You wanted. someone that like I'm the fuse. You're.

the match. I'm the rubber. You're the. cash. I'm the rubber band. We're locked. in. We're connected just like that. You. wanted that at that young of an age. I. mean like again like and this is not to. take away like I'm not I don't want to. downplay or like u minimize anything. That's not at all what I'm doing. >> I'm being real when I say man I was I. was 19 years old. >> right? >> I'm only now really learning new levels. of love. >> Okay. >> Um [clears throat] and I said this more. recently in another in another. conversation another interview. I'm like.

man I'm I'm learning how to love myself. Like the depth of what I understand love. can be is evolving. So what I was. writing was aspirational. I was aspiring. to have love like that. And it doesn't. take away that in my life I had someone. that showed show showed me that that's a. possibility, you know. So I don't want. to take away. I want to say that. >> maybe I didn't experience it then, but I. was looking for it. And I did have. someone that I was like, man, maybe this. could be the kind of love that we we.

have. You know, >> 19 years old. What you know about love. at 19, man? like. >> yeah, yeah, I'm marrying this girl. >> Yeah. [laughter] You know, >> and more power to anyone who does. >> Yeah. I mean, some. >> I think that's I think it's very rare. That's what I'm saying. >> Guys that been with their girlfriend. since sixth, seventh grade. >> and through high school and through. college and and they're together, I. commend them for that. >> But more times than not, >> at that age, you don't really know what. you want.

>> Yeah. I I I. >> You're you're not really developed or. experienced enough. But some people to. kudos to those that do. >> who have it who who have that man that's. incredible. >> also. It's that's lucky. >> Yeah. >> So lucky. >> Yeah. For sure. >> man. >> to find someone to. Well, I shouldn't say luck. Luck is what. happen when preparation meets. opportunity. >> But I think I look at it like this.

>> It's easy if you're physically attracted. to someone. >> Like football was easy to me. Mhm. >> But I still had to work. >> I had to train. I had to eat right. I. had to study. >> So I had to do I had to practice. So in. other words, I had to work at it. >> Still had to work. >> A lot of times in a relationship, we get. the things that bring us to the. relationship, >> you forget there's still work to be. done, >> bro. Key. >> What that mean? [laughter]. >> Key. That's a that's like that's a bar. >> That's the thing. People don't realize. >> you may show up naturally disposed like,

"Oh, no. It's actually there's there's a. natural thing doesn't negate that you. still have to work. You have to work. >> requires and it also requires like it's. a teamwork. >> Yes. >> It's like so one can work and if the. other's not working it's it's. >> it's two people against a problem. >> Yeah. >> Not me against you cuz a lot of times we. think it's it's me against you. >> Man, I should have got him as a. therapist. [laughter]. >> Should have got Shannon. >> No. Well, I should have listened to my. therapist. Had I listened to my therapist, I'd.

[laughter] be I'd be in a better place. But I think the thing is is that. >> But I think the thing is is that. [laughter]. >> you don't. >> when you're in it, when you're living. it, >> it's you don't see it. >> You can't see it. It's hard. >> And then when you get out of it, you're. like, "How did I [laughter] miss that?". >> Yeah. It's It's so true. In retrospect, it's so easy to kind of identify. >> You know what? >> I wasn't putting in the work here. again. the so I can Yeah, it's definitely one.

of those ones where I I can see in the. songwriting I was aspiring. >> for. I was aspiring for it was it was an. aspirational. thing but um. >> do you remember where you were when you. wrote that when you was thinking about. that song? >> So I wrote the song I wrote the. beginnings of that song and the chorus. in the car. I was li I was leaving a a I. left a Yo, shout out to Happy Perez. Happy Perez invited me to a a session.

just down the street from where we are. right now. Okay. Just a few short. blocks. [snorts]. >> Uh and I go into this session and it's. for a group unknown. Actually, never. really I don't think the group ever made. it out. >> Wow. >> But the ANR basically was like, "What do. Who are you? You know, you know, this is. a session. This is a close session." And. I was like, "Oh, I'm here." Um, I was. invited by, you know, Happy Perez. He's. the producer. >> They're like, "We're sorry. We don't. have you here and you can't be here.".

>> Hap was like, "Man, don't worry. They. tripping. Whatever." He was like, "But I. got some beats. I'm I'm going to give. them to you and like maybe we can link. later on the week.". >> Wow. >> Gave me a beat CD. This is back when CDs. were [laughter]. >> were a thing. >> Were a thing. Burned me a CD. I jumped. in the whip. First beat that came on. Sure thing. and that chorus. No, the verse. If you. be the cash, you be the rubber band, be. the match, I will be a few all that in.

the car. >> And I actually wrote a completely. different course actually in the car by. the time I got to the crib. >> Got my inbox out for anyone out there. who knows what an inbox is. You know. what I mean? You've been doing it for a. long time. >> Yeah. It's just it was like the early. home recording. >> Okay. >> Kind of kind of ProTools. >> Okay. hardware interface. Um, went to my. room and I cut it. Whole different. chorus and Happy has it somewhere. It's. not nearly as good as the course, but I. I was like, I feel like it should be. something else. And I rewrote the chorus.

and the rest is kind of history. >> Wow. Did you know like when you writing. this song like I mean because he gave. you the beat I mean you thought you was. going to go hang out and like you. couldn't be here. It's a private session. and then you go home and you listen to. it on the way home and you get home and. you write it. Did you know that you had. something special? >> I think when the song was done, when I. finished the song, I knew the song was. special. Um, I didn't know how special, right? >> But I knew that there was like a there.

was a. there was something in it that felt. new. >> and cool, >> right? you know, it just felt like, no, this feels like now, like this is how. our song should be written, you know, and um and at the time it was like that. It was actually a very like forward, it. was a very. in terms of the approach, it was a it. was a a new approach in terms of R&B. >> You do realize that there probably some.

women out there probably thinking that. song is about their right. where. [laughter]. >> you know just so you know just so you. know. >> in many ways like there's listen the. best part about being a musician and. writing songs is like how many people. have found themselves in the details. >> of the pen and I think what makes that. song special is those details you can. see them and they're vibrant and like. who doesn't want like what woman doesn't. want to be with trash in the. >> rubber that was me that was me girl. >> you're like. >> yeah like up yeah [laughter].

It wasn't, >> you know, you know, I don't know how. many how many got slayed to that song. that it wasn't [laughter] actually. really meant in the way that it was. written, but you know, it just gets it's. what happens. >> Is it true the record company tried to. get her to Usher? >> So, I submitted that record for Usher. >> Oh, you tried to give it to him? >> Yeah, man. I was a I was a starving, you. know, starving artist. I was a. >> unknown, obscure, grew up here in. Englewood and San Pedro and like didn't.

have connections like that. So, it was a. song that I was like, "Yeah, I'm willing. to give it up if it's going to mean. getting to the next level." Yeah. >> He didn't want it or they you couldn't. get it to him or how did it. >> What I what I understand is like it was. I think he had the song for some time. and he liked it but just never it didn't. really make sense with. >> everything else they were doing. >> Okay. And so he never really cut it, but. it worked out. >> Did the art Did uh your label try to. give any of the other songs to artists?

>> No, not really. I think after that they. were like, "Nah, we just going to let. him rock. We going to let him cook. [laughter]. We're just going to let him cook. He's. he's a weirdo. Let him do his weird. songs and like just do do [laughter] his. thing.". >> Um. I know Michael, did you ever meet. Michael Jackson? >> No. You know the interesting to that. song, I played that song for a couple. people and there was a point where I had. gotten word through my publisher at the. time.

>> and some people that I knew were kind of. associated and around Michael. >> that he had interest in Sure thing, but. I don't I can't I can't really confirm. that. That's what I was told. It could. have just been hearsay, but. >> um. >> that would have been crazy. Wow. That. would have been amazing. >> That would have been a dream. This song. kind of blew up like on Tik Tok and to. hear it. So now you put this song out, you're like, I think I got something. You don't really know. >> I mean I mean I'm sure there's no way.

that Michael Jackson thought Thriller. would do 100 million copies. He thought. he had some good songs on there, but. [clears throat] to go to that. >> Oh, he was aiming. But I, [laughter] you. know, Mike was mad. He was like, he was. like, "No, I'm about to have the biggest. and be the biggest.". >> Yeah. But I mean probably at that time. what maybe the Beatles maybe what 15. million copies or Elvis or something. like that. >> when you do I mean in an era I mean you. do. >> 15 times that that album is 100 time uh. 100 times platinum. >> Yeah. It's like. >> you know you you you know you 10 14 15.

times diamond. That's crazy. I don't. know if we'll ever see another album do. that. >> Not likely. It's not likely. It's not. likely. Um, >> but do you know like when you do a song, do you know, man, this a banger? >> Oh, yeah. I know when I know when there. are songs that. I'll take I'll take that back. I know. when they're bangers to me. >> Correct. Yes. [laughter] Yes. Yes. >> I'm like, "No, that's a banger." But, you know, I have my taste is that's why.

there it's my album. I can do what I. want. But, um, >> some some of them I don't know, honestly. Like, I'll be honest with you. I have to play it for people close to. me. Like Drew, right? Drew over here. called Skywalker early. He walked into. the session. We're also close by. He. walked into the session and he heard. that he was like, "That's the one." And. he's called it a couple times. >> Wow. >> All I Want Is You. He called Come. Through and Chill.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Skywalker. He called. >> all the early ones. Quickie, he was. like, "That's it. That's it. Those are. the ones." So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not. always I'm not always um key to the ones. that are going to be like bigger, >> but I do know when they're special. >> So, did you you end up making money? You. that that was that was you made some. money for that one, huh? >> We did good. We did good. I think the uh. I I always say I I got lucky. I have an. audience who's really down to ride. because none of my albums are the same.

Mhm. >> And um and I know that I'm I'm not like. the obvious choice, you know. I think I. think. >> that's where I built this course. >> Um we were recently invited to be. scholar and residents at NYU. >> and I built the course around what I've. learned not being the obvious obvious. choice and. >> and what it really is. The the course is. called speaking chaos to power, but it. is about taking the uncertainty of the. systems that are in front of us and.

finding ways to guide and direct them in. ways that are more equitable for. artists. And I think it can be applied. to anything, but it's about really. connecting with your audience. >> And um I got really lucky to do that. early on. And um and what my next 10, you know, is are about is really helping. other artists do that and become not. just financially free, but also have. creative freedom and to do it in. parallel. I think often what we find and. what what I've seen that I got lucky um.

how I felt the most lucky is that I. didn't that I got both you know by. accident somehow you know and I had and. I had great people who were kind of. mentoring me you know. >> um. so what we need I think now especially. for for art is to reflect the times I. think it's is really important um music. was big part of the movements that we. know changed the course of this country.

you know, um, when you hear Nina Simone. say that it's it's important for artists. to reflect the times like. >> she was actively that strange. >> change going to come Sam Cook Bob Dylan. song with the. >> Sam Cook is the like one of the. [laughter]. so so we look at these times that always. had music and art and all part of it. >> you know what's going on. >> if we are really wanting to change I. think it it's a holistic.

thing to expect the art to reflect the. the um the desire. >> and the need that that has changed and. then obviously organization and you know. [clears throat] mobilizing of a lot of. people. So the course is about that and. and you know making money is is one of. those things that I've got to learn. through a lot of mistakes, >> right? um that I feel like is just.

teachable. It's teachable for for. artists. So that's my next 10. My next. 10 is really dedicated to again black, Latino, brown voices, storytellers left. the center like myself who deserve. development and capital to build out. their ideas so as to affect the kind of. change in the systems and culture that. we deserve, the kind that we deserve. And I'm not being like I'm not acting. like I'm, you know, try I'm I'm I'm it's. all altruistic, you know what I mean? It.

is for profit, you know? Um, in the. system that we live in right now, that. is how we're interfacing. Maybe one day. it'll be different. >> And I hope if we can, we get to inspire. some of those voices that maybe change. the way that things work in this. paradigm. But until we get there, I want. to help I want to help artists like that. come from similar places that I do to to. get their to lock in without. >> without it being at the expense of. their, you know, relationships and all.

the things that are that are sustain. >> Is that really possible? >> I think it is. Can. >> I'm talking about can you reach that. upper that upper upper upper that. Michael Jackson, Beyonce that the I'm. talking about the upper paradigm of the. Tom Brady, LeBron, Michael Jordan, Serena Williams. Can you reach that. paradigm? >> You know, I'm I'm not there. I'm not. there. Um, >> but you still sacrificed to get to where. you says, "Okay, Shannon, I'm not. there." But I'm here, but and I still.

had to sacrifice. And [clears throat]. you said you probably should have. sacrificed more because you did devote. some time. >> Well, I didn't say I should sacrifice. more. I think. >> I think what is important is like. however I did it to get here, I could do. it better. And I'm not going to get. there doing it the way that I did it. before. >> Okay? So, I want to believe and maybe. I'm crazy. Tell me. This is a. conversation we'll have to keep. [laughter] having. Maybe I'm crazy, but. I have to believe that there's a better. way that there is a holistic way to to.

>> that you can do it without the kind of. sacrifices that it's going to take. Maybe denying a wife or denying kids uh. uh recital or football games or soccer. games or. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, not at all. But. what I'm saying is that it doesn't have. to come at the total sacrifice of your. relationships and your your um being. whole and being real. It's going to. require sacrifice. I do think there's a. better way where that than I did. >> um whereby your relationships stay.

intact, that you stay locked in with. them and whole with all of your. relationships and that. >> those things keep you sustainable. I. think that's actually what when I when. I've kind of like taken a break, it's. the relationships with my family and my. friends. Those are the ones that. actually really came around me and and. >> really helped. >> bolster me. >> Yeah. I think what type of woman do you. want? If you want an independent woman, >> you have to understand. I had someone. say, "Shannon, do you know why movie.

stars marry other movie stars?" I say, "They like each other." He's like, "Yeah, that's a part of it." He said. because the other know what it's like to. live in that world. So if you get if you. want a housewife, understand you're. going to have to take care of her, >> right? >> If you get an independent woman, she's. going to think independently. Exactly. >> So the question is, if you going to do. all that, what type of woman are you. going to get. >> because she's going to have to. understand and she understands. Savannah. James, Aisha Curry, they understand. Most of the time, someone that has a a a.

wife or significant other. >> that does that, they're not they don't have their own. They're not working because I can't I. can't because I can't focus on me and. give you. >> Yeah. >> So, Miguel, what do you you know, you. say. >> I don't know. I thought we were talking. about individual [ __ ] but. >> Yeah, but I'm saying that No, that is. individual. You said you think you can, you know, sacri do it differently this. time while keeping the relation keeping. the the partner intact, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean all. relationships, but in in answer to my. answer to your question is personally I. always want to be with someone who is. able to dream a dream. >> and also have their own dream. I the one. thing I cannot h be I can't be with. someone who doesn't have a vision for. themselves. I need someone who also has. a passion and a purpose that they feel. so deeply. >> that they're on their own mission as.

well. So in the way that you kind of use. the analogy or the example of like an. actor may be with an actor because they. understand that. >> the lifestyle is going to demand time. away and this and that. Mhm. >> I think I think at my core I will always. need to be and I'll always be with. someone who um a person who has their. own vision and their own purpose and. it's deeply like believes in it and is. also effective and and. >> so you don't understand that she's not. going to always be there for you and. every time you're begging call, right?

>> That's why it's great. I'm a Scorpio so. I be like leave me alone anyway. You. feel me? I in my space. You know what. I'm saying? >> Yes. Yes. >> That's me though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so it kind of works out. Kind. of works out. >> Let me ask you this. I I I've been. always want to know cuz I've gotten so. many different answers. [clears throat]. Streaming. >> Now, I'm sure Drake and and Taylor Swift. and The Weekend, they cool with. streaming. >> Yeah. >> They doing billion billion billion. billion. But where where is Miguel on. streaming? >> Miguel currently the real numbers are.

like 27 million a month. Uh. every million translates to about $4,000. currently. So do the math. >> That ain't no bad money. >> Okay. So So. >> I mean I can I can make it work, >> right? But. >> I could make it work. >> We can make it work. However, when you. look at what. >> kind of money would be made with a. purchase. >> Mhm. >> That's when all music is all available. at $9.99 a month at all times. So we're.

fighting for attention. Well, streaming. as it is, as a paradigm, devalues. the art and the the sacrifice, the time. >> of a lot of people, not just the. artists, but the engineers, the writers, the all of the ecosystem of really. making music. So. the way I see it is that streaming is. not in and of itself the techn the.

offering is not in and of itself. a threat. The idea is fine. It's the. ownership. It's the equity. It is the. payout. It is the pro. It is the the. mechanical way that it works on behalf. of the art that empowers it. That is the. lifeblood of it. >> that is that needs to be corrected. And. personally, I think the answer really. comes in. somewhere in in ownership, artist.

ownership of and I don't have no answer. to this. I'm not invested in any. company. I've heard of a couple. I have. a lot of interest in companies like. Subvert. Big shout out to Subvert. Love. what they're doing. Um there's a couple. companies out here who are looking for. better alternatives whereby the artist. has ownership in the company itself, streaming and obviously their IP. It's. an it's an important issue that I think. um once answered will. revolutionize.

not just the business part but the. actual quality of the music. >> Okay. >> And um and until it becomes something. that's owned by artists, artists owned. and there's equity there for artists at. this stage of the. >> of. the paradigm that we live in because we. know too much now, >> right? We know that we've been taken. advantage of for decades, for centuries. as as artists when it comes to writing. and and owners of ownership of masters. and whatnot. >> And we've seen great examples of.

ownership of and retaining ownership of. masters. Um Allah um Birdman and and uh. and No Limit. >> We've seen it do really well. Mhm. >> that the only next step is for there to. be an artist owned to me an artist owned. streaming platform. When it's artist. owned and protected and maintained to me. that then gives it a whole other level. of it is for us by us. >> Mhm. You know, and I think personally.

what I would love to see in the next. five is for there to emerge an artist. owned, not not one artist, but a. collective of artist owned. >> streaming platform. And I think with. that leverage, it will it will probably. benefit the people who create the music. and that's what we deserve. But will we. ever will it ever be like it was in the. 70s and 80s and the 90s when people. actually go purchase hard copies of. albums?

>> I hope so. You can go get my vinyl right. now. [laughter]. >> scla. Uh I hope so. I think people are. still I still buy vinyl. I still buy. music, you know. >> Yeah, but you have to go to like what? Like one of those little specialty shops. like Right. Cuz there's no more Tower. Music and uh you know what was the other. one? I forget the other name of the. name. They used to go and you know you. go through it. I I remember back in the. 70s you go and like could you play this. for me and they they would put it on and. you listen and you listen to it like. yeah this okay I'm I'm going to get this.

>> bet. >> You know it it will it ever will it ever. be a time like that again? >> I think it'll be novelty. I think that. version will be a novelty experience. which is which is dope. Like I still. love to go to a record store and put a. record on and go like let me listen to. it in headphones. Yeah, that man. >> It's dope. It's a dope experience. And. that will be there just the same way. like people still go. >> go jump. [laughter]. >> People will still go ride horses. Like. we had the car. We the car replaced the.

horse, but the horse is still an. experience, you know, and there's a. market for that. >> It's still something about having. [clears throat] that physical copy of. that album. >> Yeah. But we are people. We're we're we. like convenience. You know what I'm. saying? like this VSOP is is the product. of a lot of hard work, >> correct? >> And development and all of that, but. you're trying to you having that. available at all times is the goal. Yes. When it's on demand, like you want to. have it, you can't hold it. >> When we originally had it only came out. e-commerce, but we didn't really start.

taking off until we got it in the. packaging shop, >> right? >> You know, the lease liquor, the you. know, the total wine, the ABC. >> Yeah. >> So, I I I definitely get what you're. saying. And people have made everything. so convenient. That's why Amazon is what. it is because hey, >> they give it to you the same next day, they might give it to you that day you. really want it. >> Listen, if it's not on Prime, you might. just not buy it now. You know what I'm. saying? Like if it's not Prime. So, so. you know, there's a there's a part of. that experience that's just a reality. So, I don't know that we'll ever fully.

go back to just hard copy. But I do. think that um as it affects the music, finding a way to take back the value and. and are re reaffirm reestablish. the value of music. >> um is something that to me is top of. mind because I love the I love this art. form. This is not just my this is not my. livelihood only. >> I'm passionate about. >> music. I I love music and.

>> it's changes. We We don't do anything. without music. >> No, >> there's an intro to to this show. >> with music. Every film has music. Every. experience that was significant to you. Well, maybe not every, but we've got. plenty of memories that. >> Well, we grew up around it. We cleaned. the house on Saturday. We listen music. >> Listen, the toilet would never be as. clean as it is if there was not music. You know what I'm saying? Like, we clean. different with music. is. >> yeah. >> So, um I I do think that there's a. there's a big discrepancy between the.

real value and the and what it means to. people in life and actually how that how. that is reflected in how we show that. it's valuable and um and there isn't. there is a better way. It is my I. believe that that can be in uh evolved. and be more equitable for artists once. there's an artist platform. >> Right. What have you learned about the. music business being in it for two. decades? >> What have you learned about the music. industry?

>> Uh, all of it is, you know, money is a tool. and it is motivated by money. >> Um, I that's why I don't take things. personally. You know, it's like even the. Grammys and I I don't mean to to remove. anything from from um the significance. of winning a Grammy at all. I'm being. having one has changed my life. So So. >> um I can't wait to perform on the.

Grammys again if it should ever happen. or win a Grammy, whatever. But the Grammys, any award show, all of. that is still a part of a larger. economic. effort. >> to make money. >> Yeah. >> So that program that you watch when you. see your favorite artists on the stage. performing. >> is really to make ad dollars. Crazy. The. NFL. >> Mhm. the the every single advertisement you.

see on during the Super Bowl, they. making billion millions for 30 seconds. >> So, it's this is all this is all to say. that like my understanding of the music. business is that it's really been in the. interest of the the people at the top. again. And. in the same thinking of of the. conversation about the streaming. platforms, it's really like at what. point are we going to take the savvy.

that we are accumulating over social. media and the information being shared. and what we've learned in history to. really take ownership of our of the of. the opportunity is to to. >> really be directly connected to our. audience. >> I think plenty of them are. That's why. you see Tyler. That's why you see Billy. That's why you see certain ones go cray. I I mean these are artists I love. >> who have really tapped into their. audience and really connected deeply. with their audience in a way that.

whatever they do wherever they go. products they make. >> they are locked in you know. >> Yeah. You mentioned something earlier. you said in your 40s you want to be able. to help people young black brown Latino. >> communities. What advice? You've been in. this thing two [clears throat] decades. What advice are you going to impart uh. on the youth coming up that want to do. what you did? >> Be your own hero. Operate by your.

values. Um if you don't know the answer, go with. the best go with the best. uh option. >> and adjust. Um overthinking will stunt the growth. and um that's it. Live by your values, be your own hero. Make the best decision. right in front of you and adjust as. necess as needed. If you can operate. from your values, you'll always get to. the feeling that you're actually looking.

at looking for. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> What is money? What is what have you learned about. money? >> Um. you got to make money work for you. Um the saying is true often that you. know you got to you got to s you got to. put up big money if you want to wig win. big money. >> Yes. >> Um debt is good. >> It's crazy. >> Yeah. [clears throat]. >> The right debt,

>> right? >> Um. and of course like what like like you. said, I love that you said this early. that it's a tool. The the great thing is. that even though I was raised really. religiously, somehow I didn't ever feel. that money was bad. It was the pursuit of money that was. bad. Yeah. And and I think a lot of. >> my um friends and I think culturally. often what we get is that money is the.

root of all evil. And it's actually. >> it's actually not it's just a tool. >> It's the pursuit of money and making. that. the thing the all. >> end all be all. >> seeing allbeing. goal. >> that's what becomes the root of all evil. is the pursuit of that. >> at any expense so. >> you know just remaining remaining. balanced and the in the perspective that. it's a tool and that the ultim ultimate. like you said is like freedom it's like. what we're really looking for is freedom. and what does that actually mean and.

everyone has a different definition of. what that is right. >> how about you like what's the what is. money for. I buy very little for myself. A sister, a mom, a brother, my kids. >> I live, I got a house. >> Um, I got two cars. Hadn't bought a car. in five years. Probably going to be. another five years before I buy a car. cuz I. >> I just get in a car and drive the same. car over and over. My battery is dead in.

my car now cuz I haven't driven home. So, so me that that's that I've always. I'm a I'm a provider. >> Mhm. >> I've always been that. From the time I. was five or six years old, I was working. in the field. I would come home and give. my grandmother $10. >> Mhm. >> $10 back in 7576,77. was a lot of money, >> but it was the fact it made me feel a. sense of accomplishment. >> Yeah. >> So, I still feel that now that I'm able. to provide for my family and take care. of my family. So, that's what it that's.

what it for me. That's what it. >> provide. >> Yes. I I've got to provide for my. family. I got to make sure they're okay. >> Me, I'm going to be fine cuz if I got to. eat ketchup with a knit needle, that's. what I'll do. >> Word. >> But they. >> cereal with the fork. >> I I just need I just need to I don't. ever want my family I never wanted my. grandmother to worry. I'll worry. >> I never wanted her to worry. I never. want my sister, my kids, my brother, my. mom. I don't want them to worry. Let me.

stay up at night. I don't sleep anyway. I got insomnia. So, let me worry about. all that stuff that you guys get to rest. comfortably. >> Worried about. >> Uh, it's like Colonel Nathan Jessup said. when he had Cathy and the thing, hey, >> you need me on that wall here. >> Mhm. >> They need me on that wall. >> so they can rest comfortably. >> Word. >> So, that's what So, what what are some. of the purchase when you got some money? You like, damn, >> growing up in Inglewood and San Pedro, you like get me some bread. What I'mma.

do? What I'mma do? [laughter]. >> I've never in the in the same way. though. I've actually been kind of the. same same vibe. Like growing up, first. job as soon as I could, 15, I was a. tutor. You know, my my my parents were. split up. >> Mhm. >> And my dad was a teacher. >> Um but my mom quit her job to make sure. that we were on a we didn't get we. didn't go too far. >> You didn't get sidetracked. >> Yeah. We didn't get and and I was a. knucklehead. I wasn't like bad, but I.

was mischievous. >> Yeah. >> And so sometimes I would find myself. >> in the wrong crowd. >> Uh and my mom just wouldn't have it, you. know. And I think when she caught wind. of that, >> my tendency to kind of like, oh, like. let's, you know, let's go have some fun. this and that. She was like, no. So, in. a lot of ways, I took on responsibility. early on to help with my brother, to. help with my own, to and and I've in the. same way been I've taken the same view. So, I don't really buy a lot for myself.

>> Um, man, the only car I bought I bought as a. gift I did as a gift to myself. It was a. old F430 Ferrari. It's a car I wanted. when I was younger and um it was already. old. Yeah, it was already old, >> but it's the only car I've ever bought. and it's still there. Still got it. I. drive it every once in a while, but I'm. not really big on a um on. >> You're not big big on material things, huh? >> I'm not really a big I don't collect.

watches. Um. >> you when you see me, it's pretty pretty. chill. >> I do I do care deeply about how my. family is. So, I think my biggest. accomplishments, the the biggest things. was buying my mom house, like you said, like that's a I think all of us is like, you got mom house, you got. >> getting getting, you know, out of. poverty, >> bro. Like fixing fixing this thing at. pop's house or like let's you know what. I mean? Like, oh, you want that? Okay, bet at the crib. Got you. Let's do that. Or my cousin needed to bail my cousin.

out or hospital bills or I actually feel. more. >> Yes, I am. I feel more um accomplished. being able to do those things. >> Yes. >> Um. >> especially because it means so much more. with your family. We're los I feel like. I'm like losing my family so fast and. >> when my grandmother's p when my. grandparents started to pass and I. started to see like my I really started. to pay attention like everyone's getting. older. >> Yeah.

>> Um. >> I feel the same way cuz I'm at the I'm. at the age where man they old. That's me. now. >> Yeah. We're the same age. [laughter]. That's me. I'm like, "Oh, wait. That. ain't old. All of a sudden 50s is not. old anymore. It used to be, >> man. You got so old." Yeah. Yeah. >> You have a hundred. >> You're almost there. >> [ __ ] You almost. >> Now all of a sudden, man, that's a long. way, man. That's. >> You got plenty of time. >> Yeah. >> So much time. >> That's how we look at it now. >> It's real. It's real. But yeah, that.

those are those are my more my um I I. prefer to save my money for those. things, >> right? And then in the meantime, again, in terms of like I want to put it to. work, you know, I want it I want it to. work. So when things happen, >> you're able to do it. >> Okay. >> If you could go back at any point in. time, I'm going to give you a an a pen. or an eraser, right? >> And you can go back and erase and do. anything over, would you? >> No. I think everything that I thought.

was kind of one of those ones that I was. like, ah, I I. would do it differently, it's built character and it's actually. fortified my my sense of self and it. gave me an opportunity to um prove to. myself that. >> I'm proud of myself, >> right? >> To do things that make me proud of. myself, >> to hold myself accountable or to to go, "Hey, that wasn't right, man. get it. together.

>> and then to go, okay, I'm going to do it. like this now. And to have the. conversations and to go, you know, I'm. deeply sorry when I was um to when I. make, you know, when I anything that I. felt was like, oh, I wish I could do it. better. I look at it with so much. gratitude now, more so because I've. taken time to kind of go, I've learned a. lesson from it and I have an actionable. way by which I will do it different. Now, will that yield the result that I'm.

looking for? >> I'm learning in real time. But I know. one thing. I'm proud of myself at paying. attention to how I am. >> to see things that. >> adjust. Like I said, when you're when. you're saying um whatever advice that. you were given, it's really like look at. your look at look at my my um my morals. and my the things that I'm operating. from, you know, and that's what's. actually informing all of all of my. action now. So, >> no, I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't. take that eraser. >> Yeah. >> Cuz who's to who's to say that I would.

ever get to this point where I would be. like, >> "No, >> I was thinking the same thing. Had I if. I could go back and change some things, >> I don't go to Savannah State, I probably. don't meet the people that impacted me. the most in my life. I had some great. professors at Savannah State. >> from Haynes Walton to to to Norman. Elmore to Joanne Green to. >> Joyce Mike Lammore. I I I don't meet. these people. and maybe I don't go on. the path that I'm on. So, I don't want. to change it. Even if I even if I could, I I don't want to change it.

>> Right. You miss all of the all of the. great things that you got in. >> that shape and make me make us who we. are. >> Super. It's it is probably the coolest. thing in looking back now because I. think before when I would look at things. like with a little bit of sadness. >> I think in the beginning of the eight. years between my last album and now. >> looking back was painful. >> and I think now it's with so much like. okay gratitude I see where I was. I see.

what I was doing. I understand. Took me. some time to really like uncover like. what was going on there. Mhm. >> All right, Mike, you were you were going. through this. You had resentment about. this. >> You really were trying to figure. yourself out here. >> And to look at all of the things and go, man, through the chaos, through the. chaos, you've actually found a part of. yourself that is worthy of celebrating. and building on and preserving. And look.

at you. You're a good human being, man. You're able to address your your wrongs. You're able to stand up on the things. that you're right about and you fight. for what you believe in. You speak out. about what you see that's not right. >> You're deeply passionate. You're deeply. happy. You have a puress about what you. do and how you approach things that mean. that you care about this world and. preserving something that it it matters, right? that there's real hope and. there's faith that is to be to be like.

nurtured regardless of what's happening. >> and somehow you've been able to do all. that. Damn, you got a great family. Your. dad is the best. >> best teacher. Your mom is the most. beautiful, incredible like supportive. person in the world. >> You got a great Latino family who gave. you all, you know what I'm saying? You. got poured into like. >> all of it. You're not like your grand. like your nan just sacrifice. You just. thought I go I go back now with so much. more like. gratitude. Uh I I couldn't take that.

eraser today, >> right? >> Couldn't do it. >> Do you ever find yourself sitting back? Um I find myself and I I really do it. like when my brother and I talk because. we talk a lot about how we grew up and. growing up and him being there and he. was always there for me. Do you find. yourself looking back and like, damn, I come a mighty mighty mighty long way. Even even in that dream, the gift that I. gave to myself, >> it wasn't this good. >> word.

Say that. Cheers to that. [laughter]. >> That cheers to that. I will say, man, third and center. I grew up on Third and. Center in in San Pedro. I don't know if any anyone from LA, most. people from LA don't even know where San. Pedro is or where that is in terms of. like how deep and how far away that is. from. this that we that we're experiencing it.

It's. >> one of the most obscure. places. And um and from there. by way of like delusion and passion and. nurturing, >> right? >> Lots of bad decisions, >> lots of great decisions. >> Yes. >> A lot of lost sleep and sacrifice that. we've talked about, man. I look at it. and I go, who who could have ever imagined? And. yet. >> I knew.

>> Yeah. and and how dope it is like when. you when you work with young upand. cominging talent on the field off the. field how important it is to have that. and I think that's like the I think why. I watch you know Shay Shay. >> Mhm. is I love to see. how incredibly delusional everyone had. to be and all the things they. accomplished and the greatness that. they've achieved to be to sit here. across from. >> from you who in your you know what I.

mean it's like we've we've devoted. ourselves and everyone that we get to. work with is why when I step into a room. >> I I never I don't treat people more or. less. Everyone is the. >> Yeah. Everybody's here for a reason. We. all have a real purpose and that's the. that's the beauty of this whole thing. and that's why. >> you know. >> I'll never want to take the eraser and. you know and do it you know. [clears throat]. >> we we worked hard to get here and. >> I believe it that's a that's that's what.

this whole thing is about. You know what. I'm saying? It's about looking at all. the chaos, all the chaos that we. experience in each iteration of our life. and taking that and building on it and. refining and honing on what is valuable. and what's worth preserving and what's. worth letting go. >> Right? >> So, you know, whether it's whether it's, you know, becoming the kind of voice. that says, "Okay, this is not right in. in the world or what have you." or if.

it's just about every day going this is. not right right here let me address it. >> right. >> I think the purpose is is always we're. getting better and we're doing it better. and I'm so blessed to be around so many. who do it. >> every day every day you know what I'm. saying that's that that's the best part. >> you work with Kendrick Lamar JCole. Travis Scott Mariah Carey Alicia Keys. ASAP Rocky Lil Yachty Wall. obviously [laughter] that's a a very. eclectic very very different group. >> all bangers all came.

>> So when you so when you when you go work. with somebody, what's your what's your. mindset? Okay, we going in. So today is. today is the day and tomorrow I'm going. to meet with Mariah. I'm going to meet. with this Alicia Keys or I'm going to. meet with this person. So what's your. mindset the night before you go meet. with said person to sit down and and try. to come together on a project? >> I don't even I never I'm more like I'mma. walk into a space. I'mma be myself.

what whatever happens. That's all we. ever did. >> Yeah. >> That's all we ever had to do is to just. go in and go, I did the work. >> Trust I trust the work, you know. I. trust the work. So, I've been really. really um fortunate to kind of like. get these moments where with people who. also believe in their craft in the same. way. And also tr there's a lot of trust. >> Yes. >> It's like when you get on the line, you. know what I anytime you line up and. everybody's on the same accord and we. like, "All right, well, [ __ ] We done.

rehearsed this. We ran this play a. million times.". >> Nothing better than when a plan comes. together. >> Hey, I trust you. I trust you. We Let's. go. We going to do it. You know, and so. I think there's a little bit of all of. the work that gets anyone into a session. that leads to them being in that room. and going, "Hey, I [ __ ] with you. I I. love what you do. Trust what you do. It's going to be dope. I'm going to do. what I do. It's going to be dope. Let's. >> let's let's make the best [ __ ] that we. can." Yeah. So is that so I read that. you and Alicia you your project you guys. were in Jamaica. So how how does that.

how does that how does that work? So. tell so when you guys come together they. they invite you. They say Miguel we want. you on this we want you on this project. So. >> do they tell you before you get there. what they're thinking is what they're. trying to do. You don't realize what's. go you don't understand what the the. direction that they want to go until you. actually get there. Yeah. >> And then you hear their vision for this. project and you're like okay okay. Yeah, the like for that for what in that. example, this is different because. Alicia's she's gonna she's like bring.

you into her world, you know? And so at. this time, >> we got on the plane and we got on a prop. plane. Me and Drew is on the plane like. the dude with the with the. >> the dude took our bags. He was like, "Welcome. Thank you very much." Took our. bags, put him in the back of the plane, took off the the the the vest, I mean, jumped in the pilot seat and we looked. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. >> Are we going to be all right? Hold on. [laughter]. >> We understand that Jamaicans have a lot. of job, but this ain't what we This.

ain't what we. >> I love that they're hardworking and. everything. >> Yeah, you take it back. [laughter] And. you flying the plane? >> Well, I said, "Okay, wait a second." Uh, we prayed. We prayed a prayer. [laughter]. >> It's a threeperson prop plane. And we we. go and finally we get there and and of. course Alicia is there with the biggest. smile and she's super welcoming. Swiss. is there. we eat great food and she. brings you into her world. That's a. different thing. She she's um she has a. you know a vision and she's she's for.

her she's an artist. She's a album. artist. Yes. >> You know what I mean? And Alicia. obviously has had massive songs and of. course but. >> she's one of those artists that is like. >> she's crafting. She's really cheffing. when she gives you an album. That. experience is different than, you know, when you go in and it's like, okay, we. trying to make a like we trying to make. a a banger. We want we want a song. that's going to hit everything and. everybody and they're going to love it. and they're going to go crazy. Different. headsp space. >> Um, but I always I always go in with.

like. >> what's what is the um what is the what. is at the fringe of what you want to say. and how you want to feel and like how. can I actually just be the person to say. it. Mhm. >> Um, and that always has worked out. So, yeah, I just want to want to I'm an. enabler when I step into a room. Yeah. Even if I'm not on the record, right? >> When I step into a room, I'm an enabler. I'm like, >> what is the what is the most potent, wild, pure, honest thing that we could.

say or you could say right now that is. like, >> no, we want to hear that. We want to. feel that as a fan, you know. So, that's. I I step in. I read you said Kendrick is. one of your inspirations. >> I mean I think Kendrick's from Compton, right? >> Yeah. >> Compton. You were from like Englewood, grew up in San Pedro. Um did you know. Kendrick before? Like were you familiar. with him before? >> No, no, no. I met Kendrick through music. and I would say like he's one of one of.

many, you know. I would say a lot. I'm. inspired by my peers in the in the sense. that I love watching them grow. I love. watching the the world grow. um. because of them. >> Mhm. >> You know, I think Kendrick put a lot of. people on to Compton in a different in. this generation. Yes. >> You know what I'm saying? >> And um that's real that's the world, you. know, knows about Compton and he reps it.

super hard. But it's the same way that. there's plenty of artists who rep where. they come from and have put those places. on the map that I just I just go like, man, I'm inspired by that. I love I love. the education part of bringing people. into your world. >> And um and yeah, I'm working constantly. to to refine how I do that. So yeah. Yeah. >> Of all the artists that you've worked. with, who would you like to collab and. do an album with? Of all the artists. that you've worked with, they say, "You. know what? You know what, Miguel? You.

know what? Let's Let's Let's do this. album, >> man. I was just texting Cole. >> Really? >> I was just texting Cole this morning. [laughter]. >> I think a collab album with with Cole is. like one that they're they've been. asking for. >> Oh, bro. I'm sitting here on Shay Shay. [laughter]. >> Tell him welcome anytime. >> Yeah. >> In an interview real quick. But Shay said, "What up?" [laughter].

Um, I think Cole would be would be. special. Um, I want to do another. project with Blue. I did a project with. I was I'm on a project with um with. Blue. I don't know if you know who Blue. and Exile are. >> Blue. Uh, I met Blue when I was maybe. like 14. We were We went to high school. together. >> Yeah. Okay. I thought you were going to. say Blue Can Trail, but clearly you're. talking about somebody else. >> No, no word. But um but Blue is like has.

a classic hip-hop album. Blue and Exile, Below the Heavens. Shay, listen to this. album. >> Okay, I'm going to take it out. >> This is a one. This is like when you get. on the plane, you can listen to this. >> Yeah. See, I I like to slow it down. I I. mean. >> Yeah. And it's. super it's it's. >> it's a good one. And it's like it's a. headphone album, so it's good for. travel. I know. You know, so when you go. back to the the crib. >> Yeah. >> and have to charge your car back up. >> Yeah. [laughter]. But it's a but I want to do it I want to. do another album with Blue. >> Okay.

>> But I want a proper album. >> But I love it doing with um with Cole. I. think Cole would be really really. special, >> especially because we're we're um I. think we're aligned in a lot of the um. human human ways, you know? It's like. no, like we're trying to be good. >> human beings, you know? >> Not that anyone else isn't, >> right? But I just know I know him enough. that way, right, >> where I'm like, "Oh, no." Yeah, it'll be. it'll be dope. Yeah. >> Are you the king of uh hip-hop collabs?

>> I don't know. I I wouldn't say I. wouldn't I wouldn't say the king. I. think there's a I'm I'm I'm definitely I. definitely have some special ones. I got. some special ones for sure. Yeah. >> Like you wrote for us, I think. Did you. write for Usher? Mary J. Jaheim. >> Yes, I did. Uh-huh. Jaheim. Um, Mary. >> music soul child. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh, we've done some ones. >> Did I? I don't think I did it for I. don't think I did for um music though.

>> You didn't do anything for music? >> I think so. Can we double check that? There might be records I've written. records and I don't even. >> Wow. >> It's true. >> Make sure you get that credit now. >> That's why I turn when you turn 40 you. forget things that you [laughter]. >> Make sure you get that credit. Um, how is it? Because it's very interesting. to me because like like when I get a. script, let's just say I got to read. something for this pro this product. >> and it comes out a certain way, but I. have to add some of it. I add live. because I needed to sound like I talk.

>> Yeah. It's you. It's you. >> So, when you write, let's just say for. the sake of argument, you're writing for. Mary Jay. >> You're male. She's female. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> or Beyonce. >> Beyonce. >> How? Because it's it's funny how you're. able to do that. Cuz I look at I look at. uh Hoveve, right? >> He wrote Steel Dr. E for Dr. Dre. >> You couldn't tell me Dre didn't walk. didn't write that cuz it found you. I'm. like, how the hell that takes a special. talent? >> Yeah. >> To write a song.

>> that you're not going to sing. Someone. else going to sing it, but you're. writing it in their voice. >> Valid. Yeah. Valid. And it takes a. special talent to be able to take that. and make it their own. >> Yes. Um, so there's a there's a there's. an art to that as well. >> Um, >> I think I always I think in terms of. like I said, I'm an enabler. >> I'm a I'm like mischievous though. Like. I'm I'm your friend that's going to be. like, "Yeah, we should though." Like, "Let's go." Like like if you have an. idea and you're like, "Man, I don't know.

if I should do this." Like, but I kind. of want to go do this. >> You're that little thing on the shoulder. like, "Yeah, we should do this." I'm the. friend, [laughter]. but not in a way that's like I'm I'm. also I'm also realistic and I'm also, you know, I'm I'm paying attention to. all the things, but I think that there's. something special about excitement. >> Mhm. >> And um I honor excitement, right? >> When you're excited about something, that is an indication that you're it it. re it's like hitting your.

uh spirit. Yeah, >> it's like you're like I'm like I want to. do this, you know, and and I think. >> more I didn't realize this one. Sorry, >> it's Cole. Sorry. Uh. >> he calling. >> Yeah, I just told him I was I was. >> calling. He just he just [laughter] uh there's. something about excitement that's. special and I I really do honor. So, um, I I think about what excites the artist,

what would excite the artist, and I'm I'm a fan first, so I'm thinking. about them in a fan way, and what I know. about them, and what they seem to. resonate with the most, and I'm thinking. of anything that may excite them, and. then I'm thinking of what their audience. may be excited by. So, like, like, for. example, for Rocket, for Beyonce. >> Yes. I was going there the next but. >> let me sit this ass on you.

>> is the first line. >> damn [laughter]. >> what me which one of us is not thinking. and I'm sorry this is this is a long. time ago don't also the whiskey kind. [laughter] the uh the what's it called. might might have me you know speaking um. but uh. I'm thinking in terms of like as a man. listening to Beyonce. >> what do I want to here what excites me. and then I'm going what is she trying to.

convey and at the time I think she was. wanting to she was from what I. understood is that she really wanted to. lean into the fact that she's a grown. woman and she was in you know what I. mean so. >> I'm listening to her tell me like okay. this is where I'm at I'm going okay bet. bet bet bet bet bet bet bet bet bet bet. bet bet bet bet bet bet bet bet bet bet. >> what's exciting to her exciting was. showing that she's like you know leaning. into her feminine and she's being sexual. womanownrow and I'm owning my sexuality. and this and that. >> and I'm going well [ __ ] I'm a fan and. I'm what guys like what do we want to.

>> and what do girls. >> what would you do. >> even what do women want to hear say what. what do her audience want to say for. themselves too. >> what's exciting. >> [ __ ] let me sit that let me sit this ass. bet I'mma go with the thing that sounds. the most exciting so. >> that's where quickie came from um that's. where. >> do you ever get afraid that you're going. to write I'm like, "What are you. thinking?". >> No. >> Yeah. Uh, that's why a lot of songs are.

not out. That's a lot of [laughter]. >> We'll keep those in the vault. We'll. keep that in the vault. But, um, but no, I think that's where I come from. excitement like what's to say. >> because that's interesting because. writing a song for a woman when you're a. male. >> and I not say obviously there are a lot. of there are a lot of male songwriters. that write for for women but. >> how how how difficult is that. >> because you you don't you don't think. like they think you don't see things how. how they see them but. >> right. >> on this song I've got to.

>> right um it's only I've only written. four four specifically maybe like again. the um like beautiful. I didn't start. that song thinking about writing for. Mariah Carey. >> I wrote that song actually as a song for. my album. >> and it actually didn't it didn't fit the. tone overall. >> Um and then I we adapted it to better. fit Mariah. Um and she wrote on the. record to make it fit better, right? Um, same thing with with Be, but Bee was a.

little closer because she was telling me. like and she was telling all of the. people that she was working with where. she was at and what she was looking for. So, I think it's a it's just it just. depends on the situation. >> Um, >> and I think with with female, which is. one of the things like I want to explore. more. >> is working with more like collaborating. more with. >> just artists in general. But like I feel. like there's an EP with female artists. like in in there. >> Um. >> writing in on their behalf I think is.

about the conversation that we have and. what they want to communicate. So it's. more about them and what they want to. say and then me enabling that. >> Was uh rocket inspired by D'Angelo's. rest your soul. >> Rest in peace D. >> Yeah man. >> How does it feel? >> What ballad at this point is not. inspired by Untitled like Yeah. There's. really. I think we'll always go back to the. church of D'Angelo and that song is a.

it is uh. some some artists have songs that are. like statements of their artistry and. what they represent. And that's a that's. his that will forever be like a. mainstay of the power and soul and funk. in connection to the legacy of all of. those things in his predecessors, our. predecessor,

>> right? >> That live forever in his music and also. his ability to do it in his own new new. way. It's what makes him Yeah. It's his. it's a what is the word for that? There's a um word for when things are. just theirs, >> but it's it's one of those, you know, it's it's that. So, >> feel free. >> Yeah, for sure. I I mean, there's. probably not a session that I don't go. into where we're not like just even in. conversation talking about.

>> right. >> untitled and voodoo. >> Yeah, it is. It's so sad that. >> such a young man. >> gone at such a young age. >> But isn't this crazy though? Like our. health is. this this could go in a million. different directions, Shay. Like we. could talk about how systematically, you know, our health is being tampered. with every day. Um, and it has been for. for decades, especially amongst blacks.

Mhm. >> You know, you know, the Tuskegee those. those experiments, we are we're all. aware about that, >> but are we paying attention to how the. water is being tampered with? Are we. paying attention to how the the the the. produce in this country is not nearly at. the level of the uh of the potency in. terms of vitamin and and all that stuff. >> It's not as potent as it was before. decades ago. Um, we've got things in our. air that are being sprinkled from above,

um, aluminum and so on and so forth, and. that's that's verified. We have our. weather being manipulated. We have, you. know, it's a lot of things that have to. do with our health that is crazy, >> right? You know, it's and and so when. when I when we hear. an artist like this being, you know, having passed so early because of. cancer,

>> what is it? >> What's this? That's crazy, man. >> It is. >> It's crazy. Also, it says a lot about. how we we got to we we should. >> we should be talking about our health. more often. I think there's a big big I. mean look I want to talk I haven't I'm. turning 40. I have yet to go do like. prostate. >> all that stuff. I'm late. >> I'm a prostate cancer survivor. [clears throat]. >> man. >> But I go. >> when did you find out? >> Well I started getting I started getting. tested early. Uh I started getting.

testing at the age of 35. My dad died at. 39 and he. >> from prostate cancer. >> No he had oral cancer. Throat cancer. >> Okay. So it was. >> and uh he had two brothers that didn't. make it to 50. So it ran in my family. So let me I started getting tested at 35. >> and went in for a routine colonoscopy. and. >> they. >> the my doctor I knew something was wrong. with my doctor then called me back. >> Mhm. >> I was like. >> it's only been it's just it's already. been some days. >> Yeah. And this was in 2016. I was.

diagnosed in 2016. Had the surgery in. 2017 and I've been I've been clear ever. since. >> Wow man. >> Yes. >> Oh man. I I go to the doctor now. >> I go to the doctor for what they call. what this premium cost or I'm going I. call Let me go to the doctor. >> Listen, but hey, I'm going to take. advantage of it for real. Like listen, come on. >> It's it's crazy. We It's not a part of. the conversation. My, you know, in my on. both sides of my family there, there's.

been cancer, so I should be paying. attention. And yet I know and I have. not, you know, and why is it not. something that we are talking about. more? It's crazy. Well, we couldn't. Well, growing up, there not a whole lot. of blacks that could afford insurance. So, we didn't go to the doctor unless. unless Jesus was sitting on the foot of. the bed. >> That's valid. >> Yeah. I mean, okay. I saw him at the. foot of the bed. I got to go to the. doctor now. >> But before then, we weren't going cuz we. didn't have health insurance. We w you. you put your family in debt forever and. forever to pay those bills. >> And we weren't going to burden We didn't.

We looked at it as a burden. The one. thing we're not going to do is burden. our family with debt. >> Yeah. >> So, we wouldn't go. That's it. >> Yeah. So now I'm going. >> Mhm. >> I'm going I I go through my deduct. First two months of the year I'm going. through my duck book. >> Let's run it. >> Go down. Let go. >> Run it. That's why you got to go to. Thailand and get all your [ __ ] checked. out. [laughter]. >> Not too much. >> Look it up. I'm telling you for real. >> Uh [laughter]. you wrote for Titi Tiana Taylor. >> Did I?

>> No. You uh she covered your song The. Girl with the Tattoo. >> Yeah, that's right. >> How does that feel? Let me ask you. How. does that feel when when someone covers. one of your songs? >> You just That's ultimate. That's That's. ultimate like nod, you know? It's like a. >> tip of the cow. >> Yeah. It's a It's a really dope nod. And. um and also she she's her voice is. incredible. Yeah. >> Yeah. I love I love. >> She's incredible in everything. >> She's like, >> she can do it. She can sing, she can. dance, she can choreog. >> I honestly think when I [snorts] I think.

she's gonna act Oscar is in. >> Yes. Tiana's that's like. >> she can really she can she can. theoretically she can get a EOT. >> for sure. >> Emmy Grammy, Tony, Oscar, she can she. can do it all there. There's really. nothing she can't do. >> Exactly. Like creative directing too, I'll be like, man, she's shooting other. people's videos, directing other. people's videos. I'm like, >> she's talented, >> man. Um, when you when someone covers a. record or like even even when they're. asking for like a you know, they want to. clear clear a sample or a song,

>> I think that's like a nod to. I I. talk to my younger self. >> Yeah. >> And I go, see, you were right. And then. that in itself is like a. >> keep going. Whatever you're doing now, just keep going. >> They'll figure it. They'll it will it. will it will be heard and felt by who. it's meant to be felt by. And um and. that's what's what's the most like. gratifying.

>> You covered uh uh scissors the weekend. Would you would you like to do something. with sis? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why not? Why not? I. would love that. I think the fans would. love that. >> Yeah. >> Um but there's a lot of people I think. there's there's a lot of like I was. saying, there's a lot of collabs that. should happen. There's there's a lot. that should happen. >> Do you have do you have your people. reach out to their people or if you bump. into them, let's do something together? >> It's always like that. Everyone's always.

like, "Let's do something together.". >> But you know, sometime they just be. playing like, "Hey man, give me a call. Hey, here's my number." And you change. the number tomorrow. >> It be like that. [laughter]. >> Like that. Come on, man. It's like that. in every all of our industries that. people be like, "Yo, yo, I'm going with. your boy.". >> Look, I'mma tell you, I've done it. before myself. >> I have also been the one that's been. like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, cool, cool.". >> Yeah. >> That's not going to happen. That's not. going to happen.

>> I don't know that fool. >> You know what though? I I've I've. actually decided in my life now that I. don't want to make music with people. that I can't go have coffee with or have. a drink with. >> Okay. >> I'll probably be more likely to be like, "Shay, let's jump in the studio.". >> That's what I'm talking about. You got. we having a drink together. >> You feel me? Like. >> it'll. a couple drinks now. >> Yeah. Yeah. than I would with some some. artists because what I've learned is. like what happens is you get in the.

studio and then you start to learn the. motivation is different. >> Their motivation is what they're looking. for out of this out of this thing. >> may be different than what you're. looking for. What you're actually. showing up for. >> And then once the music is made, then. you got to show up for the video. And. then you got to show up for, you know, you want to you want to promote it and. this and that. And then if the song. isn't really representative of what you. both actually are like if there's not a. real thing that you really are like oh.

no we're try we're trying to make music. that matters right. >> if they're like no I just want the hit. >> and you're like well I want to say. something that is different interesting. or like hasn't been done before you know. whatever oh wow look would love to be. impactful but I'm not chasing that. Well, then you come out with a product. that ends up being some some weird mix. and then you still have to promote it. and I'm not there yet for that [ __ ]. Yeah. [laughter]. >> You did uh you did a karaoke of Rihanna, my girl. >> Mhm. >> You want to work with me?

>> You know what? We've talked about. working so many times, bro. I would I. would kill it. Like I would produce an. entire album for her that would go. crazy. >> You think, man, Reed Reed, she like. really in her family. She got kids now. I don't know. I don't know if she I. don't know if she's really into it, right? Really like that. And actually, what would be crazy, I would EP an album. for her and Rocky. That [ __ ] would be. insane. [laughter]. >> Cuz I have both, >> right? >> I have both. I can do like the energy. I'm like, "Oh, no. I And I've I've.

>> I would crush an album for both of them. for sure.". >> Yeah. >> I know. You saw when Jamie did uh Sure. Thing and Blame It, >> bro. [laughter]. I just saw uh Jamie at the Blue Note, too. >> He uh You know what? It's funny. We used. to have a a a southern spot at Savannah. State called the Blue Note where you go. get fried chicken and and and and. gizzards, livers and fries. Uh it's in. Thunderbolt, Georgia. It's right rocking. distance from Savannah State campus. So,

when you said the Blue Note, it made me. think of that. >> Bro, did you For real. Gizzards for. real? >> Yeah. >> Oh, you don't eat gizzards? >> Not really. >> Not really, huh? >> I've never had gizzards. Really? >> How are they prepared? Fried. >> Everything fried is good. You like. >> daddy. >> the right. [laughter]. >> Hey. So, man. Man, what is that? It's. fried. Okay. It's good. >> It's good. >> Yeah. >> It's buzzing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> But, uh, would you do something with. Jamie. >> Fox? >> Yeah. >> In a in a That's also one of those.

people where you can sit and talk like. Jamie is one of the coolest. >> He is. All he want to do is joke though, man. He got K. We have a conversation. without you joking all the time. >> Yeah, but I mean it's the best. It's the. best. It's the best. >> He unbelievable. I would I would love to. write write with him, work with him. Um. I think he's he's also one of those ones. that's like he's one of our talents that. I feel are. even still unrealized in terms Yeah. People don't realize how it is. >> their impact.

>> Yeah. >> Like Jamie on the Jamie Fox show was. incredible. >> Yeah. Jamie before that. >> living. >> stand up on in Living Color and standup. incredible. Then you move forward and. you're like his his career as an actor. Yeah. Incredible. >> And then in music, incredible. So you're. just like, oh man, this. >> Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. He. might be one of the most talented people. that's ever been created. >> and and not really like trying to be. like, no, I am I'm the.

>> No, no. He really heard, too. But like you said, I mean, from. standup to to to acting, I mean, when he. did Ray, >> uh, and he did uh uh what is it? The. pianist with the piano when he was the. uh the guy, the homeless guy. He I mean, what can he do? >> He's um Yeah, the uh the range that. range is like. >> I don't know if we've seen someone with. range like that. It's like when we say.

acting range, when you look at a Tom. Cruz or you look at Robin Williams, rest. his soul, you look at a Samuel L. Jackson. >> guys that I'm talking about can make you. laugh, can be serious, [clears throat]. >> Robin is actually a great one cuz that's. like Yeah, cuz cuz that's the the kind. of like. >> he could do a kids movie and he could be. a villain. >> and he can make you laugh like it's your. your your family, you know? It's like. it's it's crazy. Uh he was he he was. incredible. Uh.

>> what's your favorite song right now? Like what who you listen who who is. Miguel listening to in the car? >> Right now I've been listening to Show Me. the Body, which is a um and I'm waiting. for them to put new music out. I think. they just dropped the album, but Show Me. the Body is a is like a punk band from. New York. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So you got a very eclectic taste in. music cuz I I mean a lot of you. >> were not I was like you were not. expecting that. >> No, I was not expecting that. I cuz I. some of the the groups that you're. naming I like I ain't never heard of. >> you know what the new um the new.

Turnstyle album is fire. >> What? >> Turnstyle. >> No. >> Um punk band. Yeah. Um. >> so you're you're you're in the punk. band. >> I grew up in San Pedro which is a art. punk haven. So when punk music was. really like kind of hitting its peak, San Pedro in the United States was a. place where like the more avancgard punk. music was really like flourishing. >> Okay. >> There's a band called the Minute Men.

that come from San Pedro and I grew up. maybe four blocks away from like one of. the premier venues that they would come. and play. It's also like a it's also a. big skate city. >> so a lot of skaters would come to San. Pedro. And I also grew up kind of at the. apex of where all of that comes. together. So punk music, classic rock from my from my father's. side, and then soul music all have a big. influence and just alternative music. overall have a big influence on the.

sound. And that's why you hear a lot of. like heavy guitar and my music. Why even. melodically I approach music the way. that I do. >> Would you do a cover song? >> Yeah. Uh, what did I cover more recently? I. covered um Careless Whisper for the Rock. >> George Michael. Huh. >> Yeah. [clears throat] Yeah, we did that. >> But like on record. >> Yeah, because I mean you got Hey, look, you got to be done. You got to be really. really good when you do a cover cuz. people going to say, "You should have. left that alone.".

>> That's valid. That's valid. [laughter]. That's true. They they get real like. Yes. >> And I'm I'm also protective of my. favorite artist. You should have left. that alone. Don't touch that. Like that. about the guy that did the cover and you. like he sounded better is Luther. or Whitney cuz Whitney take your song. You like. >> Whitney took a dollar. >> You should not you should it took Dolly. I'll always love you. That was Dolly. Parton. >> Come on. >> And and Luther took like seven or eight. You're like I don't know who sung that. before Luther, but they should have left.

that alone. >> I don't think I have the voice for that. Obviously, I don't I don't I'm I don't. think that I'm um even but see like. D'Angelo covered he always had a cover. on his records, >> you know. >> Um Cruising. >> Yes. >> You know, Smoky Robinson. Yep. >> You know, um Africa, >> we're looking we're listening to records. and Africa on Voodoo is like. >> A1. It's a It's. >> very It's like I will always go to that. record on a Sunday, you know? I don't. know. Um, I don't know that I have the.

the voice for it, but I I would I have I. don't know if I have I'm brave enough to. put it on [laughter] record. >> Yeah, cuz Hey, cuz people say you should. leave that alone, man. I. >> It's rough. [snorts]. >> Like, what would I cover? That's a good. question. >> Let me ask you this. When when people. cuz it's funny cuz I talked to LL and I. talked to a lot of different people that. have had people do their songs or sample. their songs and I say, "Let me ask you. this. When someone comes and says, "I.

want to do this." Do you have to hear. their song before you like you give it. clearance? So if somebody came to you. and they say, "Man, Chase Brown, I want. to I want to I want to do this. >> Take your song and do with it. Do. something with it." Hell yeah. No, [laughter] I got to hear it. >> Nah, >> cuz I had Bobby Brown on it. Bobby said, "Man, if I had known, I wouldn't let. Britney do my parag." [laughter]. >> I said, "Come on, Bob." Like, nah, I'm. bad. I mean, it kind of fit though. Yeah, it kind of fit. I I get it. I get.

it in terms, you know. You know, also, >> but I mean, he probably like the check. though. >> The check was probably nice, you know. Listen, we not mad at the bag. But yeah, sometimes that's not really worth it. But I Yeah, I do have to hear it, right? >> I got to hear it cuz sometimes they they. are not. >> Yeah, they be joking. They be trying to. joke on your song and I ain't for that. >> No, we can't do that. No, [laughter]. you're not about to take this. Nah. >> Have you ever had a song stolen? song stolen? No, but I've been a part of like some.

songs where I didn't get credit that I. thought I should have. Nothing that I. would I would I'll never say it, but um. but you know, I came up as a writer, >> right? >> Um it was the way that they they. explained to me that I would actually. make my way to being an artist was, you. know, people what you're trying to do is. two too left. you're no one knows what. you look like or or what you are like. you're too ambiguous and you know [ __ ]. you weird dressing weird and [ __ ] So.

>> they were like write write be a writer. and that's how you'll carve a path for. yourself. >> Um and in that process I definitely. missed some credits that I should have. gotten but um but there's always get. back you know I think all it always. comes back. So, um, yeah, you know, it's. just a part of the part of the thing. And that's why that's why I I started. S1C. I started S1C for the same reason.

For the same reason of like don't want. people to be taken advantage of. Be. educated about the industries that we. are that are a part of making our work. seen and that that. really um enable the stories to be told. but go in with leverage and knowledge. about how they work, >> right? >> So, we're never agreeing to or. acquiescing to things that in the long. term don't benefit the creative freedom. or the financial freedom that we. deserve, you know?

>> So, let me [laughter]. was your introduction to mainstream. reality TV when you was on BET? >> Yes. Well, I'd already seen we had seen. like, you know, the real world. There. were a couple seasons of real world. >> That that was that was the first. introduction of reality TV. The real. world. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But um but in terms of. being on television and being a part of. that process and like. narrative, being [clears throat] a part. of someone's narrative that you have no. clue about. I just. >> Well, they don't paint you as favorable,

>> bro. I was I was the villain. >> Yeah, but they tore you up. >> Yeah, they did. >> But you know, I I again I always say. like it always comes back like it always. works out. That's why when you asked. earlier, you were like, "Would you take. an eraser to it?" I'm like, "You know. what? No, >> because in the end, I always end up the. the truth always is always like, look, >> when I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong. >> I was wrong.". >> Hey, and look, if people are going to. hate me for that when I was wrong,

that's their prerogative. That's cool. Everybody that's supposed to be with me. and pay attention and and support and. whatever, they here because they really. care and that's what they want to do. Mhm. >> I actually would be wasting my time. trying to convince people who don't want. to. Correct. So cool. That's great. That's fine. >> But it always comes back around. I was I. was on this show and they painted me as. a villain and they told me that I was. walking into a situation that they were. looking for a lead singer. >> Huh? How you go from a lead singer to a.

villain? >> So I walked in and they're like, "Yo, so. we're looking to to like bring in a lead. singer. We found all the supporting. members. We just need a lead singer. And. I'm 14. >> I'm like, bet. 15. I'm good. I'm like, >> you got the right one. >> All right. Bet. I'm down. I'm ready. I. never considered being in a group, but. I'll be a lead singer. Bet. >> So, I go in and um and yeah, it's it's a. thing. They were they had already had. their group together, and to them it was.

painted as this guy's coming in to take. someone's spot. >> Oh. So, we don't know who it's going to. be, but we're going to see. And one of. you is going to have to go home. >> Really? >> And so, their whole interfacing with me. from Jump was like, "Who's this?" Like, who's who are you coming in? We've been. hanging out. We've been we earned our. spots here and who are you to come in. here? And that was the position that. they took. It's so crazy that that's. kind of like still one of those things, but yeah, that was my introduction. I.

learned very quickly the uh it's TV and. editing, right? You know what I mean? It's editing. >> So, they made you look really bad. They. cut they they they they tore you up, though. >> I don't think they made me that look. that bad, though. >> They did. [laughter]. They did. >> They did. >> But, you know, [ __ ] [laughter]. >> We here. >> Uh, so your image when you first came. out, they had you with tall TE's. >> Yeah, >> bro. [laughter].

You're not a rapper. >> Yeah, definitely not. >> But that was the image they wanted to. portray. >> I think. >> if they thought that that's what would. sell. >> Um, man, I think even I was like, okay, I'm this is me at, you know, >> bro, you trying to get on. You accepting. everything. >> 19. I'm I'm I'm looking at it like, okay, well, [ __ ] I'll put on a like I. was already wearing like big T-shirts. >> Okay. >> You know what I'm saying? And it wasn't. like it was like I all of a sudden. became a different person,

>> right? >> But um when you look at what I was. choosing in that time versus the real. person behind the music and like all of. the things that informed like who I my. identity, who I am. >> It definitely was like one of those ones. where I was like, "All right, I'm trying. to figure it out.". >> But I mean, >> how did you dress? >> Yeah. >> 20 years ago, you know? It was like, uh, >> good and terrible. >> You know what I'm [laughter] saying? Good and terrible. That's how that's. how,

>> you know, I I think the thing is like. when you get some, you have an idea of. how you want to dress if I ever got some. money, >> right? >> You know, um, >> I wore summer clothes when I was a kid. I wore summer clothes year round. Some. of my brothers, some of my uncles, some. of my cousins, you know what I'm saying? So, I had summer clothes. So, I always. said if I got me some money, I. [laughter]. >> will get I will give me something nice. And so when I when I when I started. making money, I dressed, you know, you. know, hey, I went through the fad where. I had all the throwback jerseys, uh the. Dave Winfield, the Kareemes, all that.

stuff. And then you go through the big. oversized jeans, the the red monkey. >> That was the era. >> Yeah. And so you go through that faith. and then you realize like, bro, >> leave that for them young kids, man. You. you in your late 30s. You you can't be. dressing like the kids. And so now, you. know, you just I dress I'm comfortable. Everybody, man, [clears throat] you. dress like a yoga teacher, bro. I'm 57. What I'm supposed to dress like? >> I'm relaxed. >> You mean what? I'm just trying to figure. you you want me. >> I earned this. You want me to dress like. what? You want me to dress like.

Kendrick? You want me to dress like you. know who am I supposed to dress like? >> I'mma dress like a 57 year old. >> Right. Right. >> And so that's that's the thing. It's. just like, okay, just accept who you are. and and and and dress what makes you. feel comfortable. I think the the the. key was was really figuring out like my. I was figuring out my voice even as a. writer as an artist at the time and um I. was working with a lot of people who. again I was telling you I was like. coming from being a writer. >> it was a lot of people who are like you. should do it like this do it like this.

and just trying to find my identity and. find my way. So yeah, when I started. out, you guys are I mean, anyone. watching, you can go back, look at the. get your hands up video, you know what I. mean? I've got I've got the fitted on. I've got big big shirt on, big um big. pants on. But you know, everyone every. artist has their journey. That's that's. where I was at at the time. Um the. journey is everything, >> right? >> The whole journey is everything. It's. about. >> it really is about like honing and and. refining, right? >> Have you ever been starruck?

>> Yeah. That first time I met um Jay for. sure, I was like, man, this is like. reasonable doubt. This is. like, whoa, okay, >> blueprint. >> I'm I'm and I'm a I'm a I'm a student of. hip-hop. I come from hip-hop, like. really. So, >> I think the one of the biggest artists I. met at the time, you know, one of the. first was meeting Jay and I was like uh. and it wasn't it wasn't um that I was. fumbling. And I just was like, "Oh [ __ ].

I've I'm really in this room.". >> Mhm. >> With Jay-Z. >> Wow. >> With Ho, I'm You know what I mean? And. it's It was It was a Oh, I'm The work is. here. It's put me here. So, it was It. was cool. Also, Yay was there, you know? It was It was a lot. It was a lot. >> How hard was it? I guess the music industry looked at you. like, "Here's a guy. He's half Mexican.

He sounds black. He looks Filipino. >> Right. >> So So So what So what we doing here? [laughter]. >> That's the That's That's been the hurdle. I've been I've been I've been, you know, trying to trying to clear this whole. time. Uh. look, man, I'm um I would say I'm like. on the cutting edge, man. >> What can I say? >> Yeah. >> Shout out to my parents. They were. forward thinking. You know what I'm. saying? [laughter]. >> Big shout out to my parents. They were. way ahead of their time, you know.

>> Um, >> your mom is black, your dad is Mexican. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But you got coming up being biracial, >> you're not black enough, you're not. Hispanic enough. >> So, you kind of in purgatory like like. where I mean, how did you how did that. like as a child? Because you know, a lot. of biracial kids, especially if you're. black or white, you're not black enough. You're not. >> you're not white enough. Well, it it I'. I've gone through a lot of my life. >> trying to um.

trying to figure out how to make. um. make. to get myself to a place where I felt. like I was enough. Enough is the right. word because that is the feeling. It's. like, well, um I wrote a whole song. about this called um What's Normal. Anyway? Um on Wild Heart, an album I put. out called Wild Heart. And um. it very much starts too proper for the. black kids, too black for the Mexicans, too square to be a hood. What's normal.

anyway? You know, and it's. >> um. that that was the that's how it felt. growing up. >> I think now I don't I'm really proud to. be both. I'm so proud to be like, man, I. get to I'm repping for both. I I don't. feel like I have to um. I don't have to be any more or less, >> you know, than anything. Um. >> I think there's a tremendous amount of. work in that feeling. So, I'm I'm.

grateful for that. And and man, shout. out to everybody out there. You know, multicultural is it's it's definitely a. um. >> it's a challenge because the way that. we're the world is it feels like you're. supposed to choose. Yes. >> And sometimes it's insinuated that you. have to be a certain way. >> But um what I found in the in these last. eight years was a tremendous amount of. acceptance.

>> first and foremost like of myself which. allowed me to see that I was already. accepted as both from both. >> You know what I mean? It was already. there but I had to claim it for myself. >> right. >> which is um which is an important. learning. So yeah, >> Bad Bunny perform at the Super Bowl. halftime. >> Thank God, >> bro. You know, a lot of people ain't. happy about that. >> Uh yeah, and and watch the money flow to. where he's performing.

>> The the real thing is like we're seeing. how it's really all about money. When. you were asking about money, I wanted to. talk about this, >> but my view of money is that is the. that's the motive for everything. And. >> understanding that it can't be the daily. >> the goal like that can't be our. motivation for money, but understanding. its. its significance in the paradigm and how. that that affects everything. So it.

trickles down when we hit money, when we. touch the money and and when we when we. stop viewing things and then it starts. that's why when you see Jimmy Kimmel. >> and they cancel him. >> and they bring him back because the. viewership goes down crazy that hit the. money. >> Yeah. >> You see you feel what I'm saying? >> So you know the the Super Bowl having. Bad Bunny, they're probably going to. make the most money they ever made. Yeah. I I almost would go on whatever. betting site and be like, I bet you they. make the most money they've ever made. >> to date.

>> Yeah. >> Because of his performance. >> Um but ultimately the whole thing is, you know, it it really comes down to the. money. And when they see that, bet you. they bring another Latino on. [laughter]. >> On your on your new album, Chaos, you do. a couple of songs in Spanish. >> Mhm. Um, >> why' you do it this step? Why' you do. >> that's like that? That's the. accepting and feeling accepted and.

discovering a a new like. >> um it's discovering a new sense of. identity, a more. >> proud sense of identity that feels like. I can be proud to be this, you know, and. that I don't have to prove anything. I am, you know, that felt. natural. >> Mhm. >> And um I think also that has to do with. becoming a father really does give you a.

different appreciation for where you how. you were raised and your parents and. your upbringing and looking at Well, it. has for me. It it's made me look at my. my experience growing up with so much. gratitude. And um in that is my my gratitude for my. for the culture I was given on both. sides, >> right? >> And that made me feel even more. empowered and more like no, this is very. natural for me. >> And what it did was writing in Spanish.

unlocked saying some some things that I. didn't know that I needed to say. >> Some things that that paid homage to. like my family that I needed to say. >> You mentioned touched on it. You're a. father now. [clears throat] Got a new. baby. >> Uh and you posted it on social media. >> Blurred out the face. But. >> uh but you didn't. >> Why? Why? Why? I mean, what made you. what made you decide? Because a lot of. times when people they they don't post. their kids or they blur out the face,

but you like, "Hey, >> it's like, >> hey, here's my offspring.". >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the um so in the in. the album, not just in the album, in my. life, it was having my son that really. triggered a lot of the the work that I. needed to do. >> Mhm. >> And. the the. realizations that I kind of had, >> it really triggered a lot of things that.

make this album whole. And it wasn't. [clears throat] until writing Angel Song. and seeing him for the first time and. forgetting the madness that's playing. out in front of us that I felt a. different kind of hope and faith that I. haven't felt in a long long time. And so. that really just gave me a whole other. perspective of life and it made me be. able to finish some songs.

>> It was so significant. Then also I know. that I've lived out a lot of my. um my relationship in the public. >> Um and this was a this was so. significant that I felt if I didn't. express the immense like how proud I was. to be a father, how impactful it's been. on my life and also how impactful it's. been on my creativity.

I would have never I I couldn't put out. an album if it honestly I couldn't have. put this album out if I didn't have my. son. >> Wow. >> I wasn't going to do another album. I I. was I don't think I would have had the. um. >> at the the way that I was moving. >> Mhm. >> or avoiding the work that needed to be. done. I would not have had the fortitude. to put another album out. And that's. because, you know, the moment you do. something in the public, you become. public scrutiny. Everything you do.

becomes public scrutiny. >> And I'm tremendously sensitive about my. work. And the last time I did this, I. just was like, man, you know what? I. could see my influence and not just. mine, but the influence of me and my. peers in the work now. And at the time, they said it was I was a weirdo. They. said this and that. And I had all these. feelings and all these emotions. >> And I said, you know what? I've been. lucky enough to do this and I'm okay. I.

can provide for my family. I bought, like I said, bought my mom a crib. I can. look out for my I'm doing, you know what. I'm saying? I can provide for myself. All of these things. If anybody comes to. me, I can I can do, >> man. I did it. Do I really want to deal. with everybody. about this and that with no context with. with also the the insensitivity of like. I'm a human being just like you. >> I've actually at every point I've given.

myself to this and I put it in front of. you just because I'm like man I'm I want. to live it out out loud and that's um. that takes a lot of energy. Anybody that. you've met here knows that. You know. that. You know that. Yeah. >> So, I didn't know that I want to do this. again. And it was him that actually gave. me the fortitude. It was him. It was. having him that gave me the It was the. domino that made me look at myself, that. made me. find the that the the the pride and the.

and the gratitude that I needed to push. me into prioritizing. this is what's the most important moving. forward to finding that I want to give. my time and attention to things that. >> are impactful. >> to other people. So when I am away, I. can justify it and go, "Daddy, >> Bobby was away, but you know, we got to. do this for these people and look, look. what we're doing. >> and look at the time that we spent. You. know, I'm so sorry I was away, but this.

is how it I can justify that, >> right?". >> You feel me? >> Yeah. >> It was the domino. And I I found so much. learning and empowerment through it that. I couldn't not keep it a secret. >> Wow. >> I There was no way. It was such a it's a. it's a it's such a significant part of. my growth. So yeah, that was. >> aside of money. >> Yeah. >> How different. are you raising your son to what your. dad did for you? >> Money aside, do you see similarities and.

things that your dad said to you that. you now say to your son? Obviously, he's. very, very young. But how different or. how similar. >> are you going to raise your son to way. you were raised? I would say similar. I. would say my dad was like and is my dad. is like. my dad was like my um. he didn't have the most support. >> Mhm. >> from his father. >> Not that I I don't think my thought my.

grandfather didn't want to support him. I think there was a lot of they're very. similar so they butt heads. >> But man, I see you get emotional when. you talk about this man. My dad's the [ __ ]. >> He's your hero, isn't he? >> He's the [ __ ] man. Mr. P is the [ __ ]. man. You know, he's he's. he really believed and he always told me. I could do it. >> He g you a lot of things, but I think.

the thing the most thing that he gave. you was confidence in you. >> That's right. >> Of all the things that he's given you. >> Yeah. >> Your life. And he was your father. He's. been in your life, but he convinced you. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> That you could do this. >> It's valid. It's super valid. He never. took away. I think we we're born with. the convincing that we need. >> Mhm. >> That we deserve and that we are everyone. all each and every one of us, you know. But my father was um he was aware enough. in his youth. He was only 23, 22 going.

on 23. He was aware enough to not rob me of. that, but to m but to reassure me that I. could. And I mean that makes me one of. the luckiest people in the world, you. know. >> Do you always want kids? >> Yeah. I always thought I because my dad. was so dope. And look, my mom is. amazing. Don't get me wrong. But I think. very often we we um.

we forget that that that dad is you know. when we have I I was lucky you know so I. just I. >> cuz everybody's like hi mom happy. mother's day we do all this stuff we do. all this stuff for the moms and we. should I I don't want to say but but. sometimes the day. >> the [ __ ] my mom is the [ __ ] I like my. mom is especially now in my life I'm. like it's it's a whole different kind of. >> I I I I I love her in a way where I felt. maybe I couldn't have even unders I.

couldn't have understood the sacrifice. of her body, of her time and her, you. know, that she put in. >> Um, but yeah, my my my dad was this [ __ ]. in terms of like this vision and me me. being. >> the man that I am and becoming who I am. A lot of it is from from him, you know, a lot of that. >> both my parents, but my my dad believed. heavy, >> right? >> And said verbally, you can do whatever.

you what do you want to do? Like he was. like, what do you want to do, puppy? Do. you want to go to the you want to be an. astronaut? You want to you want to be a. fireman? You want to be a teach? What do. you want to be? You can do it. Whatever. If I said today, if I said anything, he. would be like, you can do that. >> Wow. >> You can do it, >> right? >> And he'll be real about it, you know? So. I have a tremendous there's a special. thing about my father. He's just he's. the [ __ ] man. >> You going to get married again? Your ex. you and your ex you dated 10 dated 10. years before you got married. You was.

married for eight nine years. You see. marriage in your future again? >> The real short answer is no. Probably. probably not. I'll probably never get. married again. Mhm. >> Um I think. I'm I'm open to it. >> Mhm. >> If I feel that the real. partnership is supports it and that's. really the thing. But right now I'm very. happy to love someone and I'm very happy.

to be loved, you know, and and to really. be able to lock in, especially on behalf. of our son. Um, so where even though I. may not believe in the construct of. marriage because of what it actually has. become as a marketing thing, >> yeah, >> I believe in the in the partnership. part, right? >> You know what I'm saying? So I may not. call it marriage, >> right? >> But I do believe in locking in with. somebody and having partnership, >> whatever that means for anyone out. there. You know what I'm saying? However.

that looks, right? >> Yeah. You're going to bless us with a. new another song from the track uh on. the on the album Chaos. It's called New. Martyrs. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We got to do it. Let's do it. [music]. >> Yeah. [music]. I got a chip on my shoulder. I [music]. got the blick on my waist. I check the. time on my phone. I put this [music].

mask on my face. If you tell me that. you're with it, babe. Are you with it, [music] babe? Tell me that you're with it, babe. Cuz I'm with it, babe. [music and singing]. I got my pride on my sleeve. I got my. seed [music] on my [singing] mind. If. this [ __ ] don't go, it's planned. Swear. I [music] won't leave you behind. [singing]. If you tell me that you're with it, babe.

Oh, are you witty, [music] baby? [singing]. Tell me that you're witty, babe. Cuz I'm with you, babe. She said I [singing] ride for you. [music]. I'll ride [singing] for you. [music]. Oh, I ride [singing] for you. [music]. Tell me that you're with it, baby.

Cuz I'm with it, honey. Yeah. Yeah. [singing and music] Yeah. Now, here we go, babe. Ready? I put two [music] shots in the air. Tell. everybody to drop. [music] They hit that. silent alarm. Just keep your eyes. [singing] on that clock. I'll watch them. while you get it, babe. [music].

Yeah. Get it, babe. [singing]. No matter what they [music] call us, lawless, a new mus. [music]. They say [singing] God never gives. any [singing] more than we. can. >> [singing]. >> How.

much can I lose without. [music and singing]. changing who I am? [singing]. Yeah. Yeah. [music] Give me what's mine. Oh, we going to take it. Take it. Yeah. Yeah. Give me what's mine. [singing] Oh. And if I hear sirens. outside [music] and I can see the lights. [singing] flash, let me kiss you. goodbye.

You know I'm ready to blast. And she. said, [music] I'll ride for you. [music] Yeah, I ride for you. Oh, I. ride for you. Tell me that you're with it, baby. I'm with it.

[music]. [singing] The love can't be silent when. the system made me. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Banger. >> New Marts. >> Yeah. >> How did that song come about? That song. is just about um being angry. It's about. being angry with all of the. all of the injustice that we're seeing,

especially like on a human level. >> and like how we're also seeing extreme. action being taken that's relatable that. feels. um that could be felt as like justified. Mhm. >> Um I think we're going to see more and. more of that as we go on because we're. just watching the systems by which we're. meant to express our wants um our. demands.

>> what we deserve in this out of this. country. We're going to see as we're. seeing that fail. We're going to see. more and more people taking extreme. action. I mean it's it's it's wild to. watch people be killed on tele you know. in the news you know people who are. making decisions that affect people on. an everyday basis. um making decisions that affect their. pockets at the expense of human human. beings you know so it's um I think this. song comes from just that anger of. watching that happen in front of us yeah.

>> how difficult is it to see a lot of. people some people have been here 10 15. 20 years, 30 years, hardworking people. that have paid taxes and families being. ripped apart. >> Man, there are people being pulled out. of their homes. We're talking about. citizens being pulled out of their. homes. This is like. >> this is like a stopo type [ __ ] that. we're seeing. And [snorts] the question. is, what does it look like not today and.

tomorrow, but what does it look like in. a year from now? >> How does it look 10 years from now? And. what does that mean for us? You know, that's the question. Um, when you look. at. the parallels in terms of um Nazi. Germany and the the just the signs that. were kind of like. pointing towards where the where the. energy was was going.

>> Um, there's a lot of parallels. It's a. lot of parallels. the the institution of. kind of a private. force, >> kind of enforcing the the. >> right. >> the uh enforcing that um nationalistic. sort of um narrative that immigrants. shouldn't be there, you know, and to the. point where they were it it was it's. it's it's very similar. It's very. similar. So, you know, it's a scary.

time. It's it's a trip. >> As a society, are [clears throat] we. becoming more desensitized? It used to. be when we saw something on television, I can't believe that we were shocked. It. would shock the very conscience of our. soul. Now we see it and we just like, oh, okay, man. Everybody got a million. things going on. So, it's easy. And then. the scroll is so it's just like, you. know, this is every day. >> It's not impacting me. So, I just keep. it moving. That's how and to a degree. you can't really This is systematic.

though. >> We have to like pay attention to the. fact that it's like been systematic. It. wasn't always like this. Exactly. It's. just every, >> you know, just a new update, new. >> new thing. They're rolling out a new. initiative. It's a new thing. It's just. inch by inch then you figure out then. you realize how far away you were from. the goal, you know. So, um. I do think it's it's with intention and. I um and it's with a long view, you.

know. I think this is. >> this is not a short term. No, no. >> Yeah. This is not a short-term play. So, um look, I'm not I I don't pretend to be. like I'm I know all the history and all. that, but I I've I've done a little bit. of research and and I know how I feel. And that's where the song really. actually comes comes from. It comes from. man, you know, it's really feeling like. something's off, >> right? So, and I and I would I would. wager most people feel like something's.

not right. You know, something's not. right. So, >> you know, the song is really meant to. just reflect the angst I think that. we're all feeling um. that we deserve better. >> And um and I'm really happy that, you. know, we're able to perform it today. So, yeah. Male, you're you're you're. part Hispanic. When you see Hispanics. for Trump and you see what's happening. in your community, like you said, some. law-abiding citizens, some people have. paid taxes for 20, 30 years, and some. this is this the only home they know.

>> They don't know Mexico or wherever they. came from. >> They know this. Yeah. >> And they're being pulled apart. When you. see Hispanics for Trump and you see. what's happening in your community, do. you feel a certain type of way? I'm not here to judge anybody, you know. I think everyone is is allowed their own. perspective. That's the whole beauty of. what was supposed to be, you know, a. democratic system in America, right? Listen, you're free to believe and, you. know, believe as you as you will and. express, >> you know, with the due process your your.

opinions, right? Um I do think that. there's um. there's so much information that it's. hard to see the truth and even the truth. you have to do a lot you have to search. for where the truth is coming from I. think also systematically how we get. information is being controlled what. information we get. >> and um. >> and seeing seeing the information in its. pure state uncut unstepped on.

you you feel me? >> It's so it's it's a it's a task and. we're already so tired. So, I understand. that people can be it's easy to. uh maneuver people and and skew skew the. truth in a way that maybe appeals to, you know, certain people. Um. I don't judge anybody for how they feel. Look, I'm going tell you, I have. Democratic beliefs and I have, you know.

what I mean, Republican beliefs. That's. that's and I think the bipartisan system. overall is really at the core of the. look, we a lot of that is is it's rooted. in a lot of the same spirit executed in. a different manner, you know, and so, >> but we used to be able to talk. >> Now we can't now we can't even talk. Oh, you over there? We stay over there. I'm. over here. I'm going stay over here and. I'll just speak to you over the cuff. You got your It used to be okay, we. agree to disagree.

>> Now we can't disagree. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> Yeah. >> We disagree, I hate you. >> It's become it's become too sensitive. Everything I think is everyone is very. sensitive or or overall there's a. sensitivity that actually works against. getting to a solution. Um and and the. greater the greater ones always say that. they're willing to come to the table. that they want to have conversation in. order to find solution. And I think. anyone who takes a strong stance. >> in terms of our representatives so as to.

it to to sort of like rule out having. real conversation, constructive. criticism and conversation around issues. is a red flag. You know, >> I'm gonna get you out of here on this. Your father was black. >> My father's Mexican. >> Mexican. Your mother's black. >> So, you're. biracial. And then his mom, your son's. mom is Asian. >> Chinese. Yeah. >> So, >> are you going to sit down and explain to. him,

>> you're part Asian, you're part Hispanic, you have the best of both worlds, you. don't have to choose a side. >> You got the best food from all places. [laughter]. They're like, "Yeah, you about to have. all. you got the enchiladas and you got all. your Yeah. >> Um, I will I will do my best to. instill in him the. the fact that he is more than enough and.

he's human. M. >> and from what I've learned through art. is that this whole experience is about. humanity. and. all of the things that people think are. different about you are a reflection of. their interfacing with this world and. with this thing. But really what I hope. to instill in him is that he will have. to find his wholeness and and and.

in in this whole thing or maintain it. And I'm more than anything want to. bolster that. I want to I want to. protect that he always feels whole and. never feels any question. But um. >> but no one can make anyone feel. >> uh uh more or less. >> that they don't decide to subscribe to. You know what I'm saying? It's like, >> so what I hope to do is just instill in. him that man, he's he is everything, all.

powerful, all knowing, all ready, you. know what I mean? He's got it in him. He's a he's a reflection of. >> the source. You know what I mean? We are. made in his image. >> And as long as I. >> can uh can help protect that by just by, >> you know, reminding that he's everything. is possible. All things are possible if. you can feel it and see it and and and. imagine it clearly. >> and to move in that direction with like. real principle. >> I think we won. You know,

>> this is Miguel. His album drops Chaos. Make sure you go stream it and buy it. Grab your tickets for his North American. tour which kicks off February 10th of. 2026. >> And he's a scholar at NYU. Miguel. >> That's right. Thank you so much, man. Thank you, man. Appreciate it. All my life been grinding all my life. Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price, [music]. want a slice. Got to roll a dice. That's. why. All my life I've been grinding all. my life. All my [music] life been. grinding all my life. Sacrifice, hustle,

paid the price. Want a slice. Got to. roll the dice. That's why all my life. I've been grinding all [music] my life.