Michael Eric Dyson FULL EPISODE | EPISODE 7 | CLUB SHAY SHAY

hello i'm shannon sharp host of club. shay shea i am the proprietor and the. host of club shay shay and my guest. really doesn't need an introduction he. is a sociology professor he's a reverend. he's a friend he can watch politically. about religion about race about the. hip-hop culture and he's also the author. of the book tears i cannot stop. dr michael eric dyson. all my life been grinding all my life. sacrifice hustle paid the price. wanna.

[Music]. grinding all my life. [Music]. hello welcome to club shay shay i am. your host shannon sharp and today's. guest is extraordinaire. he's a sociology professor at georgetown. university. he's. hip-hop culture he's sports culture he's.

a minister he's a pastor he's a reverend. doc when you when i prefer when i refer. to you do you prefer to be called a. minister a pastor or reverend. shaysay's friend. daddy scarf's friend that's good enough. for me like eric dyson from the. dog great friend and. i don't use the word i don't use that. word friend lightly great friend we have. conversation we pick up the phone and. talk to each other we're just not.

friends because we're doing this. interview we actually converse. on the telephone frequently often so. people need to understand the depth of. our relationship. absolutely i'm so honored and that is. telling the absolute truth and we talk. back and forth i learned so much i get. it all for free i ain't got to pay for. i it it all for free like i said doc. thanks for coming on today and let's. jump right into it the current state of.

america and i think the biggest thing. that we see is the racial divide between. the black minority community and our. white counterparts and we see the. unarmed killing of black men and women. in america george floyd tipped it off. and then we see uh the blake situation. we see ahmad brooks we see sandra bland. we see walter scott doc we can go on and. on. what do you think. got us here. no it's a great point and you laid them.

out there rashard brooks ahmed aubry. george floyd i mean and and. unfortunately and tragically i mean when. we add sandra blake or rakia boyd or. brianna taylor we can we're going to add. more names after disappears that's part. of the tragedy right right and what got. us here is the persistence of white. supremacy what got us here is that from. the slave plantation when the slave. patrols were sent out. after black bodies. bring them back if they escape bring.

them back if they're out late at night. because you know black people could get. a pass to go to visit their girlfriends. or wives or husbands and the like from. plantation to plantation but if they. were disobeying any rules or if the. slave owner didn't like what they were. doing they would send those darn slave. patrols out they were the predecessors. to the police. right so in the early 1700s in virginia. and other places. the police have essentially. been trying to arrest black mobility and.

to stop black freedom. and as. as bad as that sounds we've been there. from day one 1700 to what's going on now. in 2020. but doc then they didn't have rules and. regulations get them back by any means. necessary and if they disobey you have. the right to use force even if that. force is deadly for it now you would. think that as we progress as a society. at least i'd like to think we progressed. as a society that the rules would not be.

in today's society like it was back but. back then why can't they see us as equal. why can't they treat us as equal why. must they use deadly force as a first. option instead of a last resort. you and i as you eloquently just put it. there you framed it we should be able to. have evolution and progress. of the perception of white people of. black people but. is it really any progress. is there i mean they're still killing us. in the same way yeah as you said back on.

the plantation they had some ostensible. rules but not really you know now if the. slave master got mad you killed one of. my best negroes i'm going you better you. owe me let me tell you what the only. time reparations has basically been paid. is for that you cost me some labor with. this negro that that you messed up and. you you hurt his arm you hurt his leg or. you killed him i want reparations ain't. that a trip so. the reality is is that we've been. dealing with this from the get-go. that you would think there would be.

rules but qualified immunity means is. back on slave plantation time qualified. immunity means that the constitution. gives. to local authorities especially police. people. an exemption. from personally being liable for say a. murder. or police brutality. so even when these cops do it people. keep asking don't they know they're. being recorded what difference do it. make. correct. at the end of the day. they know that there is no prosecutor.

that is really going to hold them to. account. and that very few people in the. government are willing to step up and to. suggest that what they do is murder or. manslaughter or the like so we know. we're living in a society where yes. you're absolutely right the rules the. conventions the laws uh what police are. supposed to do and not do we are. supposed to be recognized as full. citizens of the american polity we are. supposed to be recipients of the full. benefits of american society but it.

ain't so as my man said it ain't. necessarily so the things in the bible. they just might be liable that's what he. was saying. and the stuff in the law books might. just be something you cooked up because. it doesn't apply to black people and. even if it's on the books. if it doesn't get applied when you are. face to face to a police person it's a. piece of paper that has no meaning. because when you mention qualified. immunity and you laid it out it means. that the servant a civil servant can't.

be held liable unless you can prove that. it was so egregious that he that he. violated you in the most in the most. heinous of terms but they've made that. burden so high doc there's no way on a. consistent basis that you'll be able to. clear that bar. i mean you can't clear the bar you can't. clear the drinks you can't clear the. bartender you clean clear the darn. establishment ain't nothing you gonna. clear and to give you an example tell us. when it has been done.

i mean if it has been it's extremely. rare right. the bottom line is it's been very rare. that cops have been held to account when. they fired those four cops that killed. george floyd. in uh. minneapolis that was a rare thing a few. of the cops have been fired uh here and. there but for the most part qualified. immunity has exempted them from the kind. of stringent barriers that you and i. would face and stringent penalties that. we would confront if we had done.

something even looking like you heard a. police person boy if you heard a cop in. this society and god bless them i don't. want anybody to be heard i don't want. cops to be hurt but at the same time if. they if you hurt their eyelashes there. is a hunt throughout the land. one of them hurts our children our. mothers our fathers our brothers our. sisters our aunts our uncles our cousins. there is hardly anything to be done and. they go on with impunity and go back to. work and continue to draw their salaries.

doc i remember when i was when i was a. kid growing up and i would hear about. these because this was never and this. was like in chicago you hear about him. in la you hear about in detroit and i. remember when my grandmother my. grandfather would watch something like. this on television the first thing they. would say is what did he do to cause the. police to do that and now that since. we've had the advent of cell phone. we know now there was a lot of times. they didn't do anything to justify dying. they didn't do anything to justify the.

treatment at the hands of the police in. the street. i so disagree with you let me tell you. what they did they breathe. they breathed. they existed they were black and. speaking they were black and human they. were black and had the nerve to look at. a cop they were black and had the nerve. to inhale and exhale they were and my. god don't get to the point of i can't. breathe let me breathe oh my god you're. off limits and and i'm being facetious.

brother shannon but you know you're. you're absolutely right there is no. provocation there is no. you know thing that they've done to. precipitate or warrant the kind of. nastiness the vicious reprisal the. hatred the taser the gun the stun gun. the rubber bullet the the baton nothing. you and i both have been subject to that. i know i have been i know you have been. i mean for no good reason stopping us. throwing me against the car calling me.

the n-word putting a gun to my head. knocking me on the ground and i'm a. well-behaved negro i'm not one of these. causing no trouble you know and what. difference does it make though the ones. who quote cause trouble get treated the. same way as those who don't so you're. absolutely right no provocation and what. these films show you know and i i get so. upset with some of my white brothers and. sisters i wish you would just obey. let me show you the white people who. didn't obey. you mother.

you know and how. we saw that the other day white boy. in his getting in this truck. and the man went there with the gun if. that would have been me for pow pow pow. pow pow yeah they would have held his. white t-shirt and then shot him in the. back seven times i know that would never. happen. that a cop would hold a white t-shirt. and then shoot the guy seven times and. god bless him he lives but he's. paralyzed from his waist down white boys. white men white girls white people white. women white white folk.

with impunity they have qualified. immunity it seems themselves that no. matter how. horribly they misbehave. most cops are not going to over respond. shoot them or engage in other nefarious. and violent activities that will cost. them their lives or make them more. vulnerable i've seen white boys with. machetes. right i mean literal white boys i know i. don't want white men to get upset does. he call this a white boy michael and see. what i'm talking about white boys under.

17. i've seen white men with machetes. and knives come at police people and. have no reprisal no consequence. they try to talk to them or they run. i've seen cops run i saw that you saw. that yeah what's in the car and runs. because he's so afraid because he. doesn't want to hurt the person and you. got the gun you could have shot that. person so we know that there's a. different standard of perception we are. existing in different universes of. perception rotating on different axes.

and and you know we saw this in the o.j. simpson case y'all saw one thing we saw. another thing y'all hear this we hear. that and never the twain shall meet and. i'm afraid we haven't progressed too. much more even since then in 95. doc why is it. is that they're able to show such great. restraint and strength as you mentioned. it when dealing with our white. counterparts as opposed to. it's hard for them. and the thing that that it burns me it.

makes me see is that when they say i. don't see color stop lying because if. you don't see color you don't need to be. a policeman you can't drive because that. means you're colorblind and you run stop. signs and you run red lights so we know. that you see color yeah. that you see the color and the stimuli. black skin versus white skin triggers. something different it's a collective. unconscious it's muscle memory i wasn't. joking when i said this tracks back to. 1700's this if you've been doing that.

stuff repetitively and repeatedly. over over a couple three centuries you. know it's deeply ingrained and then you. pass on those stories and you see what. your grandfather did and your great. grandfather did and they tell you. stories and your great great great great. grandfather told your great great great. grandfather and your grandfather what. the deal was and they pass that on to. you it's a collective inheritance it's. like the declaration of independence. it's a document that articulates noble. ideals and in this case it articulates.

ignoble ideals and people absorb that. stuff man and as you said the stimuli of. the skin you know whether it's conscious. or not and at this point what difference. does it make whether you are. unconsciously biased or consciously wise. the thing is you still got the same. results your intentionality doesn't. exhaust consequence what your intent was. my past used to tell me a mosquito don't. want nothing but blood but it can end up. giving you malaria it's intense draw. blood its consequence. fill your body with malaria right so the.

reality is is that many of these cops. don't even understand that when they say. i don't see color first of all you lying. as you said secondly if you don't see. color that means you don't see. responsibility because if you saw racial. color and racial identity you'd have to. see the way in which white and black and. brown and yellow have been mistreated in. this country or treated differently that. white people have been treated. differently than black brown red and. yellow people so how convenient you know. i don't see color oh when it comes time.

to to taking care of your responsibility. i don't see color so therefore i don't. believe in affirmative action i don't. see color therefore i don't believe in. reparations i don't see color therefore. i don't believe in compensating for. historical forms of oppression that have. been um directed toward african-american. people so how convenient when you don't. see color you don't see responsibility. you don't see culpability you don't see. complicity and you don't see how you've. benefited from being a white guy or a. white woman for 400 and some odd years.

so when you don't see color it's a way. of denying your responsibility as a. citizen of these united states of. america but doc how do how do we get. them to see when you brought when you. brought the slaves here in 1619 and you. told him he was less than you treated. him less than you robbed him of his. dignity you robbed him of his humanity. you put him in chains you said this is. what you are and then you told him no. matter what you can never be equal to. roger twain and dred scott said a slave.

can never be a citizen that's what he. said plessy versus ferguson said you can. have separate we can do we do equal but. it's got to be separate so it's like. when i tell people a tv is only going to. be a tv because that's what we've been. told for 75 years that's what it is well. if you tell someone they're less than. they're treated less than for 400 years. how do you ever see that person as equal. to. you can't. that's the point. and people try to deny it they try to.

put it away as a fallacy or a mythology. it's not true it's not real but it is. how you gonna tell folk all of a sudden. to treat people like equals who were. never seen as equals the people who were. never seen as. you know uh regarded as your peer and as. you said the supreme court justice in. the mid eighteen hundreds he said in. that dred scott case. that black people have no rights that. white people are bound to respect.

and he said this ain't for you the. constitution wasn't written for you. declaration of independence wasn't ready. for you you didn't lie. first of all the founding fathers they. were all white they all owned land and. the majority of them had slaves so when. they wrote the constitution they were. writing the constitution for people that. looked like them that were like them. slaves had no land they were they. weren't free for the most part so how am.

i going to write a document for you when. i'm not talking about you. you better believe it and they and they. promoted it when they wrote that. declaration of independence they put it. on plantation graham they didn't have. instagram back then they had plantation. gram they put it on plantation gram and. on twitter and they and they sent that. darn thing out there with their quills. and their pens and their documents. and they articulated their beliefs that. black people were subservient read the. declaration of independence. where it talks about savages that are. indians and black people who are.

disloyal. this is in the document itself. so when you read the founding documents. as you said three-fourths of the signers. of the declaration of independence. owned enslaved people. and not only did they own the enslaved. people. um they denied. black people and all women. and people who were non-property holders.

the ability to vote. so you know you you don't wrote the darn. document. well all people are created equal all. men but all women all people creative oh. except women. and except black people and except. non-property holders you you were you. were putting an asterisk on there to. begin with and whenever you read. something with an asterisk you know your. ass is at risk so you know if you're the. one if you're the one who is the victim. of that asterisk you are vulnerable and. you will not be able to sustain an.

argument about the necessity for your. equal treatment so from the very. beginning it's been deeply entrenched. and deeply rooted so of course. people are not going to just know. overnight that hey um we're supposed to. treat them equally. we're supposed to regard them with um. equal uh passion and equal observation. and equal uh regard that that they are. our brothers and sisters and what we. have they should have no.

no and even when it formally ended with. jim crow and the 64 voting uh 64 civil. rights bill 65 voting rights act 68. housing act all kind of informal stuff. all kind of stuff even if you denied the. law of the old testament the law you. still had the spiritual realities that. were persistent although even up north. people think oh they had it better than. those down south they were doing. horrible things up north as well so to. be black in america meant you caught. hell white people didn't see you.

differently and to this day. look at that i don't know if you saw. that uh. i don't know if it was on twitter or. some social media where the two white. guys are cuz you in word you inward you. in don't come this far you inward i mean. use it about 19 to 20 times the cop is. sitting right there the cop doesn't say. stop calling these people the n-word the. cop doesn't intervene uh this is one of. the i don't know if it was either. portland or maybe no i was outside of. kenosha i think where the naked blade.

happened and there was no attempt. to interrupt this why because the cop is. part and parcel wolf and warp of the. same system and structure that. reinforces white supremacy we see it. from the white house with stephen miller. and white nationalism down to the. everyday level of the cop we see it from. donald trump. who goes to. kenosha. and doesn't meet with jacob blake lies. and said he met with their pastor they. ain't got one dog they don't go charge.

sorry. and you lied about that and then you you. justified. a 17 year old. allegedly. who who murdered who allegedly murdered. two people and shot a third. and you defend him but you call black. protesters thugs yes look at the. inability of many white brothers and. sisters to separate themselves from the. vicious. uh white supremacist ideology that.

permeates their unconscious can't even. help it. dog you said something very interesting. that that people thought the north was. different than the south but what they. failed to realize that it was america. and america treated everybody the same. and they tried to deny blacks not try to. they did deny blacks the right. for fair work to vote fair housing civil. rights civil liberties so this notion. that oh everybody because. i read with dr king he ran an apartment.

in 1966 in chicago. and he said the vitriol that he got in. the north was worse than what he got in. the south and he didn't know if the. non-violent protest in the north would. work like it did in the south come on he. said that he got hit up here just uh hit. up outside the head with a rock he was. out there it i'm trying to remember that. cicero. i've never in my life seen such violence. as i've seen in chicago i mean there it.

was doc he's not been to mississippi. alabama. georgia. bull connor done dealt with audition and. up. south because that's where it was up. south in the north renting an apartment. on the west side of chicago. trying to highlight. uh the criminal levels of poverty that. were in this particular area. and showing that black people were not. capable of enjoying the same freedoms as.

their white brothers and sisters up. up north. uh in a way that was proclaimed even. though we know down south they didn't. get much but they they were honest about. it they lied about it remember what they. used to say. that down south. they love black people as individuals. but not a group but up north they love. you as a group but not individuals. to my wife up so it's very interesting. how that played itself out in the. physical geography in the political. geography of discrimination and racism.

in this country. you know what doc i find very. interesting is that we hear our white. counterpart says okay as long as you're. peaceful protesting that's fine would dr. king peacefully protest he still had. water cannons turned on him he still had. dogs unleashed on him he still got sit. upside his head and then when black. started writing about what happened in. harlem and what happened in detroit and. what happened in l.a well we won't hear. you because you're destroyed so what is. it that we can do.

to get your attention. attention to help us. advance to give us equality to see that. we get justice when we've been wrong. that's what we can do just kill. ourselves. because the point is they don't want us. they don't want to deal with us they. want to grapple with us i'm not talking. about all white brothers and sisters i'm. talking about the ones with power i'm. i'm tired of white people saying well it. ain't all of us it's enough for you to. make our lives miserable though it's.

enough you who are in positions of power. the ones who love us don't see never be. the cops the ones who love us don't ever. seem to be the president uh you know in. many instances or the constable or the. senator i mean the ones who seem to have. a problem with us always seem to have. the power. and the ones who seem to love us don't. so the reality is that when we talk. about. this country and making an argument. about oh my god a few people would uh. protest in the right way. note two white brothers and sisters.

if the protest is making you nervous it. is effective if you're trying to tell us. how to protest that's not an effective. protest right colin kaepernick got on. your nerves and he was effective because. he got your attention because he bowed. down and he talked about something that. was critical to him and y'all got upset. they treated colin kaepernick worse and. they treated dudes who had been accused. of rape and came back in the league or. violence in the in the league or killed. somebody in the league i mean it's. amazing.

and many of those white gms. really felt that he was one of the most. horrible people in the nfl this is the. consequence of white blindness white. privilege not seeing color. and so when you say oh if y'all would be. less violent like you said dr king. wasn't violent at all. he taught people how to take the. nastiness that hey. he taught people how to take the bulls. think about this dog normally we have. what we call self-preservation if.

somebody is hitting on you i'm going to. try and fight you back i'm trying to get. you off me by any means necessary so if. i'm close to a brick i'm going to pick. that brick up and i'm going to try to. stop you from hitting me upside my head. i'm going to try to get you to turn that. water cannon off i'm going to try to get. that dog to unleash me i'm going to do. that but that's not what he taught those. guys that's not what they did no. you're absolutely right he taught them. discipline uh moral and ethical. self-regard restraint they they they.

practice white people would come and. call them n words and all that and. unleash dogs and they were practicing so. that when they really felt it just like. y'all when you were out there hall of. famer out there on y'all were on the on. the on the uh practice squad out here. doing your thing and every day on the. gridiron you know two a days they were. running two a days. suicide drills basically uh. to try to be able to deal with uh white. folk who would come at them so where is. this notion that if you do it the right.

way. uh it will be accepted the white. ministers. of birmingham alabama one rabbi and. seven i think protestant ministers wrote. a letter to king. you're going too fast. you're asking for too much. don't don't don't come into our. neighborhood this is non-violent. so that proves your point the letter to. birmingham jail was written from king. in response. to eight clergymen.

uh seven or eight clergymen who were. upset with the nonviolent protests. of. the black folk in birmingham so man no. matter what you do they're gonna be. upset they're gonna write letters. they're gonna say it ain't the right way. and the bottom line is. that often white brothers and sisters. didn't do anything about our suffering. until there was looting and violence. that's the tragedy and that's not on the. backs of those who were so upset that.

they did that that's on the backs who. claim to be american who claim to be. citizens of conscience but who can't. hear black people unless a building is. burning and then you try to pathologize. them and say that they are ridiculous. and that they have no morals and yet. every day you are sustaining a culture. that disregards their humanity and that. provokes them ultimately to engage in. sometimes rather desperate activities. because they've done a great job of. portraying blacks by their worst by one.

but want us to look at the cops by their. best i say you can't have it like that. you can't say because someone has done. something all blacks are like that but. you want us to take the cop that helps. someone cross the road or changes the. tire or buys diapers for a family that. needs. a better that is in need you can't. expect us to judge you by your best why. you judge us by our worst. that's brilliant and that's what they do. you see. the bad things that black people do the. under you know are seen as.

representative of black people correct. the great stuff we do is seen as. exceptional. oh that's shannon sharp he's a genius. and you are he's amazing and you are but. the thing is is that you know that that. barack obama he's great there are a lot. of barack obama's there are a lot of. black people who have been doing uh the. kind of things that he did and he's an. extraordinary man but there were people. before him who were capable of being. president. jesse jackson could have been president. uh carol mosley braun could have been. president shirley chisholm could have. been president so that there are many.

other black people who are capable of. doing great things but they don't get. the opportunity so the great stuff we do. is seen as exceptional the bad stuff we. do is seen as representative whereas as. you said is exactly opposite with white. brothers and sisters hey it's a bad. apple it's not the tree no your tree is. jacked up and you're gonna have to cut. it down or get some different limbs to. be salt off of there and we're gonna. have to plant in more fertile ground. doc help me understand this doc and. you're a sociology professor and you've. studied this a long time. why is it that my black skin and i and.

i've said this i said if you look at my. black skin as as a threat you will never. see me as non-threatening. if you see me if and and that's true. if you think my black skin is it it it. puts you at fear. but you're more fearful of me being. black than a 17 year old white kid. walking down the street. with an. ar-15 now it's being reported that when. they attacked him he had already shot.

the individuals they were trying to get. the gun from him first of all he's 17. he shouldn't have an ar-15 second of all. how did he get there. mama brought it. right i mean. here here's the point. your point is so well taken. that trump and him said well he's. probably trying to protect himself. trying to protect himself trying to keep. himself from harm's way as you've. already pointed out he's already done. the dastardly deed. um the police let him walk right by.

they go up to another black man right. look at that look at representative clay. i can't think of his last name now who. facebook had to remove. his post because he said you come here. with your guns and he put a picture of. black men up the ones that that the. black militia down in um. kentucky that was defending uh those who. were protesting for brianna taylor he. said well i'll have no conscience about. laying you down this is a sitting. congressman. and wait a minute you're in an open.

carry state. but they have guns. so now you're going to kill them you're. going to advertise killing them this. lets you know your point was right. you are the threat not what you do who. you are in an open carry state. where black people should be able to. hold guns like anybody else right. congressman is threatening black people. by saying if you come here protect in. particular black men. if you come here armed to the teeth. we will lay you down we will not have.

any conscience and we will not have any. regard for you because you will not be. able to carry what you are duly licensed. and uh we are sworn to uphold your. ability to do so that just lets you know. it doesn't apply to us let me give. another example since people might think. well that's a theory. how about in an open carry state of ohio. you roll up on a 12 year old kid you are. you roll up on a 12 year old kid jamil.

right. right tamira you are out playing. and you have a right so if you roll up. on this kid and you see as a gun first. of all it's an open carry state so why. are you shooting him immediately. secondly did you ask the question. whether it was a toy gun or not thirdly. they said i think when they called the. report in i think it's a toy gun i don't. think it's real and he's a 12 year old. kid but this lets us know that those. studies that have been done to suggest. that black kids are always seen as older.

if they're 12 they're seen as 18. and so. treat him as an adult. the grown black men like obama they try. to treat like a kid the kids they try to. treat like an adult when it's to their. benefit an advantage and this is part of. the tragedy that we're dealing with in. america doc help me understand this i'm. trying to figure out what made a 17 year. old. drive 30 minutes 45 minutes to protect. buildings that work his or his family. doc i love whole foods i love target but.

if they're burning it down i ain't going. down to standing attention with my gun. they got insurance i'll let them handle. that. unless you the walmart family unless you. exactly unless you the walton family and. you know my name if my name is shannon. bezos i didn't think so. so. right worth 200 billion now first. million man in america so that's. absolutely right but see this is the. sense this is the sense of collective.

enterprise of whiteness it's not about. whether you own it or not it's not about. whether you own that store what is. really at stake is whiteness itself the. mythological property of white identity. and so he's there to protect it in the. same way that dylann roof went to south. carolina. and shot nine people in a church. saying that you people are taking over. where. prisons maybe. with the presidency we ain't taking over. uh fortune 500 companies we ain't ceos.

of those places we don't run most. colleges or universities where are we. taking over being imprisoned in america. disproportionate numbers of us we might. let it. i was gonna say we might be in. basketball but luka doncic is trying to. get y'all some uh some conversation. right now lucas said oh i'm gonna hang. with the brothers up in here. exactly. although that jamal word is killing the. game so so what's interesting is that is. that it was this identification as a. white person that under assault and.

listening to the president of the united. states of america who is fomenting. violence in this country by unleashing. some of the worst most intemperate. racial beliefs that we might be able to. imagine that stuff together is a lethal. cocktail. dog. hold on i thought that he said anytime. he tweets something. from his official official page. that's that's fact that's an official. statement well then why is it that when. he tweets things when he says things if.

people come out and says well that's not. what he meant well he didn't mean that. that's not true i mean he said okay vote. but in north carolina yesterday he said. vote by mail and then go to the ballot. box and vote again well you can't vote. twice he was he was just playing okay. when he said when he told uh sarah. sanders huckabee that she needs to take. one for the team he was just joking i. said i tell you what you do if you're on. a job if you're the boss go tell one of. your employees or tell someone y'all.

need to take one for the team so we can. close this deal and see what happens to. you come on brother i don't know if they. knew what tate one for the team mean but. you and i know would take what for the. team means that's right that's exactly. right we know what the nuanced. interpretation of that is and the thing. is again they just be lying and then uh. attorney general barr said well i don't. know what the particular rules of that. state are you can't vote twice nowhere. bar what what world are you living in.

what country are you living in there is. no american state. city or municipality where you can vote. twice this is the level of corruption. and the willingness to defend donald. trump well well we already knew what pre. bar when he gave his his 17-page resume. to get the job he said what because he. believes that he believes president. trump should have absolute power that he. should be beyond reproach and that no. matter what he does is that because he's.

in charge of the executive branch he can. do anything. without with without without uh uh. persecution without condemnation and. that's just absolutely not true that's. why they bring that's why they got away. from british rule they didn't want the. king they hated that the king had all. the power. and now this man is trying to replicate. uh being the king i know harry and megan. came over here god bless him but he he. he thinks that the king came over here. and he's going to be king george the.

whatever he thinks he's going to do what. he's got to do. and figure out how to do it and that he. has all you know total power but wasn't. it the historian the lord acton uh who. said uh power tends to grow up absolute. power corrupts absolutely we've seen. this before our eyes that this man is a. neo-fascist engaging in public policy as. the prerogative of a personal. predilection he believes that he should. be able to set the standards do what he.

wants to do and not be held to account. by law he literally thinks he's above. beneath beyond and. way way above the law that the rest of. us have to abide by. well i think the thing is this is why. one of the reasons why he he loved. dictators he loved president xi. of of china he loved putin he loved. ediron he loved bolisaro because. they have what he wants and that is. absolute power he wants that he craves. that kim jong-un of north korea he.

that's what he wants he wants to be that. and that's not going to happen no well. we got to make sure it doesn't happen. but he's trying to make it happen yeah. absolutely talk about a third term. son you got to win the second one first. uh and we hope that does well let me. speak for myself i think it would be a. disaster for this country should this. president get reelected uh but we have. to do our part to make certain that that. doesn't occur and even white republicans. who are conservative are going my god. this is enough what this man is doing is.

ridiculous and horrendous so yeah he is. seeking to be a kind of dictatorial. force a fascist force a monarchical. force that will embody uh the. aspirations of these dictators. throughout the world who do what they. want to do without legal compunction or. moral redress. when we when i look at when i look at. this and we all know and i i have there. i i don't know if there's empirical data. but i believe we know why president. trump was elected and this is what i.

don't understand they said it was. because of economic anxiety but during. president obama's term the average. household income rose greater than any. other president in u.s history and he. inherited the attorney he entered the. presidency in the second greatest. research recession behind the great. depression. unemployment went down. everybody's income went up and from. where it went to where president trump. took it to from where president obama. inherited it's not even close so don't. give me this about economic anxiety.

because he didn't create create the. economic anxiety he created he inherited. something from a republican president. and he took it to heights we didn't even. think he could ascend to. i mean in the middle of that he saved. the economy he saved the automobile. industry he gave the tarp money he. figured out how the banks did didn't. fail i know a lot of people critical but. imagine the headlines if the first black. president allows the banks to fail you. ain't gonna get no second term you might. not get a second day it wasn't gonna.

happen so he did nearly the impossible. and still. was not accorded the respect and the due. recognition that white brothers and. sisters want to give donald trump for. inheriting born on third base thinks he. hit a triple obama truly was trying to. do something that was uh nearly. impossible and saved this economy and. dug it out in such a serious fashion. doc back to the uh the the violence the. unarmed killing of unarmed black men and. women being caught on tape how do you.

think the cell phone. has helped or create and become a lot of. people like well it's not that bad well. it just seems to happen that we always. catch the bad. right right right no you're absolute but. but it is bad uh and the reality is that. the cell phone has revolutionized. policing in this country at least our. arguments that what we said was true. that we don't have to do anything we can. just stop hello officer hey how are you. look at rachael brooks that you.

mentioned in atlanta 40 minutes. nice conversation talking back and forth. supposed to go meet this girl you know. my wife i don't want to do you know. drunk here i'm chilled out let me just. just oh man the man good stuff. then you get into it you end up you know. shooting this man yes he took your taser. and randy what are you gonna do he don't. kill you with no taser he fired a taser. at you can't even it can't even go five. six feet and then you shot him in his. back so he was not a threat he was.

running from you and then what did you. say. got him. and then what did you do kicked him in. his face. the level of disregard for black. humanity. is astonishing but it is law it seems it. is practice it is convention it is the. rule by which so many people um. regulate and govern black life in this. country and the tragedy and trauma is. that black life does not matter that we. will not be respected that no matter.

what we do no matter what we say no. matter how well behaved we are there. doesn't seem to be a tolerance for us as. human beings on this earth and i wasn't. joking what they what many people would. prefer for us to do was to not exist not. be. just unexist. uh kill ourselves lose ourselves not not. present uh a problem through our. breathing in this country that's how. many many people uh feel about us you. mentioned ahmad brooks and although he.

offered he says look i will leave the. car here i would walk home. i just saw a video that was shot on. tuesday of a guy that's so drunk he has. three part four parked cars he's falling. down he's so drunk doc he's laying on. the sidewalk. let him go not only does he do they let. him go with his life and i'm not saying. they should have killed him. they didn't even give him a ticket. um so how are you so you hit four-part.

cars you're so drunk you're stumbling. you're lying on the sidewalk oh man they. let you go without a ticket my god i. mean this is this is the living example. this is the very example of what we what. we mean when we talk about white. privilege white privilege ain't about. having a bunch of money. alone white privilege ain't about being. able to uh. send all your kids to school without. bills white privilege means that you're. able to engage in activities that.

otherwise might be seen as rendering. other people vulnerable like talking to. the cops like engaging them in a stop. um you know when when when only white. people could go to harvard it didn't. mean that every white person could go to. harvard it meant that the only people. going to harvard were white. right. so so what we're saying about privilege. is it doesn't mean every white person. will be rich it means the likelihood of. those who will be rich. will be white it doesn't mean.

that every white guy who played in the. nba will become a coach it means the. likelihood is that even if black players. who become coaches and win championships. and then get released by one team have. to catch on as an assistant coach in one. place whereas a white guy who never won. a championship gets a chance to sign a. four year contract. and a coach two of the greatest players. in the history of the league these are. the kinds of you know contrasts that we.

have to speak about when we talk about. white privilege in america. dog let's talk about john thompson. you're in dc you know. john um and what he meant to georgetown. what's his place in college basketball i. believe he's more than a coach oh. john thompson is one of the greatest. figures that american sport has ever. produced number one number two. uh you're younger than me. but when i was coming up.

and georgetown was playing. let me tell you what that was a that was. black america's team just like if the. dallas cowboys are america's team right. so to speak. georgetown was black america's team the. way they played that hoya paranoia. the way in which you know alonzo morning. or patrick ewing or dikembe mutumbo and. the great allen iverson you know if he's.

six feet i'm 25 feet he might be 5 11. out here doing their thing and he saved. their lives and especially allen iverson. i mean but on a remarkable man and made. them go to class made them go get their. degrees made them. study hard made them right. become productive members of the. academic community and then he was a. mentor to so many more a loving. patriarch yeah he gonna cuss you out now. make no mistake about that.

doc i heard the story about rafer edmund. and they said he was responsible for 60. of the narcotics being moved through dc. but he had befriended some of the. georgetown players they said big uh. coach thompson big john called him in. and say stayed up away from my players. and he did it. brother let me tell you what. john thompson was no joke 610 of thunder. and chocolate you think chocolate. thunder was the first one. daryl dawkins no no no doc this backup.

center for bill russell with the boston. celtics. um. was a man of his word he was to be. feared and respected um and people. understood he was no joke and he wanted. his players to be protected and not only. from thugs in the street or other you. know uh big drug dealers he also when he. went to opposing teams and they were. disrespectful with their racist vitriol. against the bodies of say an allen. iverson or his other players colin.

patrick you and him uh an eighth banana. he held the team accountable on the. other side see what none of this oh yeah. that's horrible that's right that's. that's just saying that's kids being. kids. you are gonna be i'm gonna forfeit the. game if you don't kick their butts out. now john thompson used his authority in. a way that should have been used and. that many others were afraid to do but. he did it uh with a plum and discretion. but also power uh a great man a great.

coach a great inspirational figure a. great mentor. uh a man who was able to make sure his. kids were going to be protected and a. man who saw promise where there was none. remember allen iverson had been in. prison correct. and and he shouldn't have been first of. all he should have never been there. because maiming by chair was the literal. um you know. accusation made against him for which he. was in prison which is nuts because he. didn't even throw a chair but you're in.

the vicinity your guys and and the white. people and black. people in jail. but they put the black superstar. in jail and if it were not for you know. uh douglas wilder jesse jackson. and you know maybe spike lee but. certainly uh john thompson who saved him. who took him on this man would we would. have never seen one of the greatest. players ever and was it kobe and other. people said if if allen iverson was six. six ain't no conversation about who the.

greatest of all time would have been bro. because the man's heart was incredible. his will his skill his ability to score. uh unbelievable all of that because of. the great john thompson i love what. coach thompson said when they told him. he was when. and i'm sure he knew this that he was. the first black coach to win a national. championship in basketball he said i. might have been the first black person. who was provided the opportunity to. compete with this prize but you have. discriminated against thousands of my. ancestors and denied them this.

opportunity that's what he said he could. have said thank you i really appreciate. that he said no no he said i might have. been the first that was afforded this. opportunity. but don't forget you denied thousands of. people just like me that was just as. qualified as me the opportunity the same. opportunity that i have you denied them. see that's beautiful and look how. gracious that is he could have said you. like you said yeah i'm the stuff i'm the. only brother he knows there were other. brothers who could have won yeah they.

had the opportunity that's what we meant. when we said barack obama as great as he. is one of the greatest presidents ever. top ten but there are some other. brothers and sisters could have been. president there are other black people. who could have been firsts if we had. permitted them the opportunity kamala. harris ain't the first black woman who. is capable of having been you know. nominated as a vice president barbara. jordan could have done this i mean. there's so many others who could have. been elected or uh nominated uh as great. as uh kamala harris is so yeah i mean i.

love that response because that puts the. burden back on the white folk who trying. to congratulate him. in a way and he was saying no you're. messed up right you all could have had. others oh look look josh gibson josh. white you you celebrating babe ruth babe. ruth wasn't the greatest ball player he. was the greatest white white ball player. oh my god. are you kidding great that he cuz he. didn't play against the brothers because. we played against the brothers that have. been a different story he went playing. against that black prince pitcher they.

said josh was a gibson or white was the. greatest home run hitter ever died very. early one of the greatest ever let's see. him square off against a babe ruth right. it's not like it was open like with tom. terrific who just died one of the. greatest pitchers ever top ten. mr met himself that was a bad man and he. was pitching against juan marissa. bob gibson. but we know and bob gibson one of the. coldest ever flamethrowers it was i mean. man that's that's that's my that he at.

10 years old when i saw him out here. beating my team. in detroit. right i was nine years old in detroit. and he's throwing that fire i went down. to the into the to my ghetto sand light. at the end of the block and started. throwing that ball because bob gibson. was inspiring me to do that so yes there. are many other black people and john. thompson was as gracious as they come by. saying many others could have been able. to do this had they been afforded the. opportunity to do so. doc you talked about president obama i.

remember growing up and my grandfather. told you he would always tell me he said. son. you can be anything you want to but. you'll never be president because. they're not going to let no black man in. the white house wow that's what i just. remember him saying that so vividly you. can be anything you can be a scientist. you could be a doctor you can be a. lawyer you can be a professional athlete. but forget put president out your mind. you may not let that happen. i mean uh this is what tupac said way. after you you know that that you know it.

seems heaven sent but they ain't ready. for a black president right right we're. saying that and that was though that was. the limit that was the that was the. ceiling that was placed on us you can do. anything you can be olympic champion you. can be baseball star you can be a. football star wide receiver hall of. famer uh what your own show on fox would. skip but you can't be the president of. the united states of america and when. that barrier got lowered my god that's. why they attack obama so hard that's why.

they attacked him so viciously. because they understood that's a real. barrier now now you can't maintain other. lies if you maintain lies that black. people can't do x when he's president. that then you can be a nuclear physicist. you can be a theoretical physicist you. can be a scientist you can be an. engineer you can be a a you know a. creator an inventor you can do whatever. you want to do if you can do that and. that was the signal barrier uh that was. dropped and again. john thompson understood the necessity.

of speaking honestly about the barriers. that were imposed upon black uh people. in this country well that's what they. did with the schools man you can't go to. harvard harvard's too hard yale is too. hard once you get your own institution. and go there well if you let me go in. there let me see if i can do the school. let me see if i can do the curriculum i. don't need you to tell me without giving. me an opportunity it's easy for you to. say i can't do the curriculum if you. don't allow me access to it but give me. an opportunity and let me see.

no doubt and limit number one. some of them boys and girls at howard. we're gonna kick the butts of those at. harvard number two some of them brothers. and sisters at talladega and spelman and. morehouse are gonna whip the butts of. those who are at yale how do we know. look at the movie with denzel the great. debaters and when we know. that that actually occurred that harvard. debaters got beat by hbcus so we know. first of all y'all were denying our. tremendous talent i mean howard uh.

howard thurman the great mystic was. there at what uh howard think about. thurgood marshall a supreme court. justice was at howard university martin. luther king jr the greatest american who. ever lived as far as i'm concerned out. of morehouse college so first of all. stop hating on what we producing out of. our institutions but secondly you're. absolutely right let us see what we can. do. let's see what we can uh compete with. and even when they let us go to the. harvard. uh du bois.

uh rayford logan i think uh carter g. woodson and so they wouldn't let us. teach there or we can go there and get. the phd but then you ain't gonna let us. see to some of these schools so they. denied us opportunity at every level. blocking us preventing us from. flourishing when we had the capacity to. exhibit the most profound irritation and. learning that uh could be possibly shown. in this culture. dog help me understa. explain this to us when you when we hear.

the term defund the police what does. that actually mean because i think. people are are confusing the two. they think that it means we're going to. abolish the police what what does. actually defund the police what does. that actually mean. right that's great now there are some. abolitionists. who are out here saying like get rid of. that and who can let me start right. there first of all who could blame them. even if we disagree even if you think oh. my god we need them. the point is given the amount of black.

people who have died of poor yellow. brown and red and other people of color. would die why why why would you be mad. at black people and others of their. allies saying and even some white people. abolish the police so don't even act. like you don't understand what that's. about but secondly defund the police. you're absolutely right what they're. saying is let's re-assign. monies. to other departments. where we defund the police and refund. that money to other organizations for.

instance. at that tape. and i'm sure you've seen it and if not. you'll see it soon. where the black man who's clearly. mentally ill saying give me that gun. give me this. he's on the ground i just watched it. last night daniel proved and i think. it's rochester new york. here's the thing man. your treat is worse than animals we. can't even say treat us like animals. because you treat your animals so fine.

some of y'all will put your dogs in care. in ways you will deny to black people. so you see this man who is clearly. mentally ill. and you put a white bag a spit bag over. his face and essentially suffocate him. and you asking us why we want to abolish. the police or why we want to defund it. because. defunding beliefs at that level means. give the money to those who deal with. mental health.

because a mental health person goes out. there. yes maybe we have some safety and. security well we'll grant that. there are other ways to do it besides. the police department so we reassign the. policemen to departments where they can. exercise safety but not with the. concentrated power of the cops with the. police department with these police. unions. that undercut the ability of american. democratic institutions to hold them to.

account they are ruthlessly out of order. they are well funded and they seem to. act against the best democratic. interests of the state so. when we say re defund the police we're. saying take the money from the police. department give a bunch of money to. other social services that will serve. the community because guess what. only about four percent of the duties of. the police. are what lead to the death of black. people the kind of violent interactions.

going out in homes this no knock warrant. that killed brianna taylor and her. murderers still have not been. arrested the killers of brianna taylor. need to be arrested even though one of. them has been fired but it had nothing. to do with his horrible behavior that. night so. dog did you see what happened. not the guy that her brother for her. boyfriend that she was living with that. they barged in on but the ex-boyfriend. right that is being reported they. offered him a plea.

if you list if you say she was a. co-conspirator you'll get probation if. you don't we're going to give you 10. years so in other words. this is why we barged in this is why we. killed her even if she even if she was. slinging more dope than el chapo guzman. and pablo escobar combined. she didn't deserve to die that's not. your role your role is to bring them in. and then let the court system the d.a.

you let them handle it from there that's. not your role. right and they ain't even aware of. someone that's right that's right but. they were saying it was the present. boyfriend right so they got the. ex-boyfriend and now the present one who. was there with her they arrested him the. other day. for drugs so his this is amazing so you. can get the quote drug dealers but not. to kill people who killed. uh brianna taylor whose things we know. so right why is it that black people. have to be perfect we don't have to be. perfect because if we go around killing.

every white person selling drugs it'd be. a lot of dead white people if we go. around killing every white person who is. wielding a gun and shouldn't be a lot of. dead white people if we go around. killing every white person who offends. the law. if that's going to be your standard they. will be dead. so the reality is is that as you say. let's not allow the police to be judge. and jury. let's allow the police to do what. they're supposed to do but this is why. we should defund them if we assign the. responsibility of public safety.

to police people in different. departments and don't concentrate in. those departments then we could deal. with uh qualified immunity because the. department would be disassembled. and we would be able to challenge it in. a certain way we'd be able to get. different people onto the courts who see. the value of holding public servants to. account in whether what other area of. public service. do they get qualified immunity where if. they do some damaging thing they will be.

automatically exempt i mean people. richard nixon had to get off the get out. of the presidency because he was being. threatened with some kind of potential. legal action so so my friend it is. necessary for us to understand the. police cannot be the judge in the jury. defund them i mean la gave up 150. million dollars of the budget uh. you know i mean right san francisco. about 125 million so yeah let's reassign. monies to departments which can more.

effectively intervene in socially. distressed situations that permit black. and brown and red and yellow and for. that matter white people to live without. the lethal consequences of police people. who exercise their authority uh with. ravaging intensity doc why is it that. our past if you look at george floyd. they talk about what he had gone to. prison if you look at on my brook you. talk about if i listen if i commit a. crime. i go pay my debt to society be going.

through the penal penal system and maybe. possibly paying a fine. what does that have to do with right. then i wasn't committing the crime that. i went to prison for at that time which. led you to kill me so i don't get it's. like our past always live with us but. our counterparts they get to move beyond. their past. i mean you've laid it out there and like. you said first of all you didn't know. that that minute so why you trying to. posthumously and retroactively uh kill. me.

and justify by some stuff you ain't even. know. so we know that's poppycock. and as we said if we did this to white. people it'd be a lot more dead white. people white brothers and sisters who. would be subject but you're right we are. held to a different standard. a different account they consistently. are trying to uh viciously assault us. hold us uh to a dual and triple standard. and then you know try to justify after. the fact. our quote murder our quote uh assault.

our quote uh. legal um apprehension or uh being put to. death because it was a justifiable. homicide whatever they do. using the facts of our existence because. we weren't perfect nobody is and then. trying to use and that imperfect past as. justification as you said when again if. we tried to apply the same standard to. white folk there would be a lot more of. them in prison. or dead in their graves right now.

doc what role does the athlete play and. i commend any athlete that's willing to. use their platform and speak up but. that's not what they signed up for. guys that went into civil service the. guys that went into to be a politician. the chuck schumer the nancy pelosi the. lindsey graham marco rubio tim scott. that's what you signed up for but it. seems to me it's always been the athlete. that's normally been at the forefront of. these movements.

especially ours african-american people. i mean other athletes have been uh. credible and on the front lines but for. black people it's because. when we didn't have black politicians we. had black musicians. and we had black athletes before we had. william dawson or adam clayton powell. we had duke ellington and louis. armstrong mm-hmm. yeah. and so we were those athletes.

right we had joe lewis. we didn't know united states senator in. the senate when joe lewis was fighting. jackie robinson was playing. but but jackie robinson was a senator. and and joe lewis was. an ambassador. and a congressperson if you will for our. interests for the black community so. they were our mouthpieces they were our. vocal articulate spokespeople to try to. defend us to try to stand up and speak. for us so when sam cooker or aretha.

franklin or. you know ray charles came along. even as we were gaining a burgeoning. political power they were the voice. pieces because white people admired them. and they were able to seize the. authority to articulate our viewpoints. and represent our interests because. white people loved and admired them so. that's why we've turned to them even. after we've gotten political. representation we still depend upon. conscientious you know uh entertainers. and athletes to articulate our noble.

ideals and aspirations. dog you know what i noticed is that if a. black man or woman becomes successful. and they speak about speak out against. inequality or racial and social. injustice and. and things of systemic racism they like. uh you made it why are you complaining. but when whites our counterparts try to. help their community they never say well. why are you complaining if jeff bezos. were to give two billion dollars to help. causes for his community nobody would.

say a word but if lebron james speaks. out shut up and dribble stick the. basketball stick the sports why do you. care trade places. what is that about. i mean it's about white supremacy it's. about white privilege is about uh. failing to understand why complicity is. about refusing to acknowledge the double. standard and it's. again it's failing to acknowledge that. those athletes had to speak up and out. in the past in order for any interests. of black people to be expressed or. articulated and so yeah you write be.

grateful. why is michelle obama mad this country. gave you the ability to make a living it. gave you one too it gave you ability to. steal my stuff it gave you ability to. loot and rob and. be you know thieves of black opportunity. and upward mobility so yeah you're right. they never ask them that question if. they help their neighborhoods oh they're. being looked despite the fact that. they're rich they're reaching back. despite the fact that they have. tremendous money they're speaking out. look when donald trump was speaking up. and speaking out nobody said he's a.

billionaire why is he talking about the. working-class white people they said. thank god we finally got somebody. speaking for us so a white billionaire. who really in truth doesn't give a darn. a flying flip. about poor white people is seen as their. hero. but lebron james can't even speak up for. his people and be in and be seen as a. person who identifies uh with his people. that's the double standard that. continues to prevail in this country so.

you believe the athlete is really. important in this movement for for. equality and injustice and you should. lebron has has his uh referendum like. he's trying to register people to get to. vote and get people to vote and. understand your vote is that your vote. matter because for the longest time doc. i was one of those my vote doesn't. matter it does matter because when you. get five six seven million people saying. my vote matters well that's just not one. vote that's five or six million people. voting and it does matter it does matter.

big time and god bless you and i'm glad. you changed your mind that's tha that. that's the kind of great man you are you. can admit that you were wrong yeah died. for that vote people [ __ ] blood for that. vote people got hit in the face with. that vote john lewis got beat down for. that vote. so yeah let's let's be real here. who are the three guys probably in the. conversation for the goat jordan colby. lebron right i know who your goal is. yeah but when you when you.

put. social conscience on. the platform when you put outspokenness. like that. and i love jordan and kobe that's my. kobe you know my feeling about cole yeah. cobra your guy. like this. if you're gonna put it all together. lebron had been the goat lebron the. stallion he the horse he the pig the cow. the dog heated farm. i mean dog it ain't even no comparison. for what that man has done.

and so. you know the comparison to anybody when. standing up against him is to me feeble. and so i mean jabar was great jim brown. was great but to have that. peak. performance 35 years old 17 years in the. league still playing like you five years. in. still in incredible shape still should. be the mvp i don't care what nobody says. uh still playing the greatest uh. incredible and you love black people. without apology or excuse.

bruh. there's nobody near you. and so i think we need him when lebron. sat down. and said this. i don't know. black people are scared. black women black men black kids he said. we're terrified. we don't know if that guy got up on the. right side of the bed the wrong side of. the bed that cop we don't know if that. cop had a horrible argument with his kid. and went out the house steaming.

he said. or if the cop basically said. this is the day i'm going in one of. their lives. he said this is this is how it feels now. lebron ain't got no access to these. people he don't know his point is this. is what it feels like to us right when. the greatest athlete on the globe. right along with serena. when the greatest athlete on the globe. says that. and identifies with black people saying. we're terrified and scared do you know.

what that does. to articulate our meaning a politician. can't say it that way right i don't care. who i don't care what politician you are. that lebron james who ain't got no. office anybody put him in office i'ma. flip your argument ain't nobody he ain't. went to the polls. the polls were in the people who love. him because of what he did. the affirmation of him as an. extraordinary figure it's even purer. right he didn't have to run no campaign.

he showed up and did what he did and. he's won the hearts of the masses. that's remarkable. so yeah when you when joe lewis was. fighting max schmeling. in the ring. in the 40s. late 30s early 40s he's fighting fascism. he's fighting nazism. not just nazism i'm sorry not just. another white guy who's from germany. it's two different systems. democracy versus nazism on display there.

these black athletes have been. representative not only of their people. but of their nation in a way that the. nation didn't deserve. because when we went to fight. in foreign wars. and came back in our uniforms they. lynched us. they killed us they murdered us. so yeah lebron james uh carmelo anthony. a chris paul. um all of the wnba my god candace parker.

diane to ross when you think about all. of them. as great as the men have been i mean. lebron will stand up above anybody but. right under him maya moore. and all those great black athletes and. the wnba they've been ahead of this game. they they got gunshot wounds where blake. was shot in the exact space in his name. on the front of their they they way. beyond. what the guys collectively are doing but. i'm loving what the guys are doing as.

well so yes to answer your question we. still need them out there do you believe. that the the nba and the potential. boycott of the season and how do you. think it's going to impact the nfl. because yes they have bigger superstars. in the nba but nobody but football is it. in america football is the sport so how. do you think the carriers are going to. be from the nba to the nfl i think you. know jared jones might have to look at. uh dak prescott i don't know what up.

jack is a company man i signed my tinder. i mean you know i i took your uh you. know i got designated for this year so. you can get me for this year if you want. to give me that 38 million uh and you. know shut up and throw this big skin. this might as well what jerry jones. might as well have said. and but jack came out he was one of the. ones who spoke out on the black lives. matter stuff when they sent the. the um. the videos to roger goodell i think it. might be a brewing. you know if not an outright rebellion.

there is certainly. uh. the desire of these football players to. take it to the next level now i don't. think they'll be as. necessarily explicit as the nf nba but i. think we've been surprised so far miss. some of them have been. and i think it won't be as widespread. even though what 69 percent of the. players in the nfl are black yes. and yet at the same time you know uh. these white owners almost feel like. they're running plantations out here.

right that's why the nba has been able. to get over because all you have to be. is not jerry jones you don't have to be. great yourself just not as bad as that. dude right but what the potential strike. that strike that one day. of the nba what did that say to them. ain't good enough. don't tell me who you ain't. tell me who you are. tell me what you represent. tell me the values you uphold. you know when the godfather when they. come around the table.

and you know they're arguing after both. of their sons have been killed. and the godfather you know was talking. and and uh i think it was uh. you know as one of the the the other. godfathers and he was like uh barzini. that's where he was ponzini all along. barzini is sitting there he says we want. you to share godfather those those those. politicians that you carry around in. your pocket like so many coins. and he says when did i not accommodate. anybody right that's how it feels for. the nfl owners like they got so many.

trinkets so many negroes in their. pockets like plantation syndrome the nba. has been forced now with its owners to. do more show us those. politicians you have relationships with. let's get them in some of this public. policy let's get them on some of this. law rewriting let's get them in some of. this you know argument about how the. police have to be held to account in a. different way let's let's use your. influence not just the money you've. given us we grateful but we made that. money you you splitting the pie because.

we all made the dough. we want you to use your influence to be. far more significantly invested. in trying to argue on behalf of racial. and social justice for black people in. america i think those got those those. ball players the women and the men are. extraordinary and exemplary and they did. a great thing. doc how do you how do you think colin. kaepernick would be remembered i. remember having this conversation in. 2017 and i said i believe in 20 30 years.

he will be looked at as one of these one. of these mythical one of these mythical. human beings i see what you have to. understand i say we look at. rosa parks miss parks we look at. muhammad ali we look at some of those. guys in today's terms but let's remember. when they were doing what they doing. they weren't thought of like they were. thought of now then and i believe it's. going to be the same thing for colin. kaepernick no doubt yeah and probably. not even that long look look at the. difference between four years ago and. now true he's already been seen as even.

roger goodell said i'm sorry we didn't. listen to him didn't you know you didn't. think four years later roger goodell. would be forced. to say. we did not listen to him and i'm sorry. and even though they may never be able. to get their individual thing together i. mean. between colin and the league. he's already been validated. he's already been affirmed. he's already been you know seriously. seen as the person doing the right thing.

and again for all these white people. don't be violent what was violent about. putting your knee on the ground. because nate boyer. a veteran told you colin kaepernick hey. don't take a seat that's disrespectful. why don't you sit down now if colin. kaepernick wasn't respectful you know. what he would have said later for you. homie i'm gonna do it the way i want. what did he say i don't want to. disrespect you let me do that that. showed you the man's heart what showed. you the man was willing to do the right. thing he didn't want to disrespect him. you want to distort his message so he.

got on his knee. as the veteran the white veteran. suggested and still wasn't good enough. because you know why it's never good. enough you can never please the people. you are trying to get off their. plantation. you can't get a a a scholarship to. freedom school on pharaoh's scholarship. pharaoh ain't gonna get no scholarship. for you to go to freedom school. it ain't gonna happen homie. and so. i think he will be respected. as uh ali kind of figure.

uh in the sense that he gave up. everything. uh to be able to make his argument i. think he's one of the greatest uh. athletic performers uh to do that but. let me tell you about why lebron to me. is even more effective. because you see when you can't deny the. talent. when if you thought are we going to pull. lebron off if he's uh doing stuff. if that was tom. brady as a black pers let me see who if. that was patrick mahomes.

taking a knee. tell me you think that man would have. been out of that league oh no absolutely. not so part of it had to do with the. talent level right we know colin. kaepernick at his height i was at that. that game in new orleans where beyonce. turned the power off because she was so. hot i mean he was unbelievable doing her. thing doing her things uh jay i didn't. mean hot like i meant you know singing. so. i was there where he was one catch. away from freaking being a super bowl.

champion i was right. that's where y'all baltimore won didn't. he i think i don't know what yeah we. hosted that superbowl i was with cbs at. the time absolutely yes. so. so he was great and at his height he. would have been undenied. but when he was declining a little bit. that just shows you lebron is using his. athletic genius and part of the reason. he's able to stay on court was a. different sport but he's at his height. still he's still doing great things and. when you do great things you can.

leverage that. uh to your benefit so i think nobody is. going to be like lebron but i think what. colin kaepernick is doing is remarkable. it is historic it will be legendary and. rightfully so because he gave up his. career uh to do what he's got to do and. yet the lord has blessed him because he. doesn't caught on to another career. that's going to last much longer than. your football career would have lasted. as a social activist so humanity for. evil they said about joseph with his. coat of many colors my brothers put me.

in a pit but god raised me up and put me. in a palace so so so so he went from a. pit to a palace. and he's able to extend his career and. tell the truth about social injustice i. think well into his 40s and 50s and 60s. should he decide to do so yeah i think i. think cap. ability has slipped just enough for them. to use that against him because they. didn't want to hear what he was saying. that's lebron james that's any of these. prominent nba players taking that knee.

they're not going to be white well i use. the term white ball because the negative. connotation that comes along with seems. like everything that's bad is black uh. black market you know black monday black. you know everything that's negative. black magic black sheep so i said use. the term white ball because it was it. was those 32 and even though. commissioner goodell. issued apologies saying we should have. listened he works at the behest of the. owners. he's getting 40 50 million dollars a. year to take those arrows that.

everybody's throwing he gets to stand up. everybody booze while they applaud the. owners that's cashing 300 million dollar. checks every year so that's what he's. getting paid for. there's no question about it the only. good thing i guess would be. uh ken chanel when he named it the black. card so the highest american express is. the black card so we appreciate you got. one though. you got one you got one doc i know it. check this out. mine was green last night but i painted. that thing because i know i was gonna be. talking to you so i said i might have a. black cardboard hook baby i put some.

shoe polish on that. that might be the only that's the. highest credit card that you could. possibly get it's a black car come on. bro you know what that might be the only. good thing that no a black man running. uh a running american express is the one. who did it look at the subliminal effect. of that bro. yes i. i i actually i know uh ken. now i may or may not have a black card. that's not here. doc dog you grow up you grow up in the.

midwest you grew up in detroit. what what is your memory of of detroit. because detroit was a part of the great. migration and i remember my you know my. uh my aunts and my uncle my grandparents. saying a lot of their relatives left the. signs that i just can't deal with. anymore i cannot take the sharecropping. i can't take this picking cotton i can't. take the field there's manual labor i'm. going to detroit i'm going to chicago. i'm going to new york it was detroit was. a part of the great migration what do. you remember about your childhood.

growing up in detroit. oh man i had a great time speaking about. black as positive. brother. i was born in 1958 man. i'm born during jim crow mm-hmm right. uh my mom was from alabama daddy from. georgia we used to go down south. i used to watch. south why can't we stop at the at the. darn. you know restaurant like everybody else. doing. we got we got brown paper bag sandwiches.

and i got to relieve myself i can't even. stop and go to the bathroom i got to. have a mason jar. under the darn seat. of the car. and i didn't understand. that we were victims of white supremacy. and racial injustice and jim crow. as we went down beneath the mason-dixon. line. and so i remember that. i remember going you know saying can we. stop can we stop can we stop finally.

stop in tennessee. go up in there with my mama didn't take. my daddy and he's driving you know why. they weren't gonna take the black man in. there. went in there said we don't serve [ __ ]. in there and i asked my mama what's her. name. [Music]. right she said don't tell your father. that's what he said. because i knew my father would go in. there and go off. so you know. having that experience was amazing going. down to my grandfather's farm was. amazing in alabama but growing up in. detroit was magical.

black magic in the beautiful sense of. that word. i mean we had incredible. you know. black society. the black church i went to an all-black. church went to an all black school. high excellence. now they they tried to starve us of. resources we were in the hood we didn't. have the resources of the white schools. but those teachers made us believe we. could do anything. my first great teacher miss jefferson.

third grade teacher mrs harvey. fourth grade teacher ms reed. fifth grade teacher mrs james who gave. us a sense of history black history man. taught us everything changed my life mr. james did. sixth grade teacher mrs morris seventh. grade mr bird dad miss stewart eighth. grade miss click man i'm telling miss. ray tenth grade those teachers were gods. to us right. they were demiurges they were tremendous. superheroes. who gave us a sense of who we were and. they told us that we could do anything.

and i believed it man. and so that was magical uh before johnny. cochran the great. johnny cochran one of my friends i loved. him but there was a guy there named. kenneth cockrell who cussed out the the. white judge called him a uh ophe and. some other words i'm just telling you. and lived to tell about it and didn't. get disbarred. and use big old words i remember when i. heard him and i had heard dr king when i. was nine years old when he got shot.

and i was sitting in the living room. watching television you know the news. was on and then they announced. that uh. dr king. was uh shot they interrupted the regular. program to indicate that dr king was. shot i may not get there with you. but i want you to know tonight. we as a people will get to the promised. land i'm not worried about anything i'm. not fearing any man my eyes have seen it.

then he turns around. and falls into the arms of jesse jackson. on one side and ralph abernathy on the. other i mean that's my childhood bob. gibson knocking out striking out 17. batters in the first game of the 1968. world series uh the riots of detroit the. the urban rebellion 1967 dark trails of. smoke going up into the clouds i'm. asking my mama what is that. and she said it's a riot i said what is. that. and then she said it's because of a you.

know a blind pig and i said what does a. a. a sightless mammal have to do. with a darn riot. and a blind pig of course after i was. joined yep you know in detroit and then. the police raided it and. yes then as now. black people being hurt and abused and. shot by the police. and we had had enough. and it erupted.

so i grew up in a black universe where. the blackness was the norm where black. excellence was the expectation where. black genius was the normative. expression of talent and we believed. that we could do anything. now i learned quickly in the riots about. racism when dr king got killed about. racism in fact when dr king got. shot we had a upstairs room there's a. five boys three so seven episodes in the. house small house but we worked it out. we had a little balcony off the upper.

you know the upstairs um. bathroom and i was scared to wash my. face. for two years. in front of that window because i. figured if they killed him and he didn't. do nothing. and he died on the balcony. they killed me too. now my brother was like crazy man ain't. nobody even know you you ain't famous. i said it made me vulnerable so i had a. great time a great experience and.

blackness is a norm but then i faced the. the reality of whiteness and the white. supremacy as well. well doc so you're being born in 58 so. you remember the harlem riots i think in. 64. the l.a rise in 65. but yeah rise in. 67. what's the reoccurring theme of all the. time the blacks have riot in america. there's an underlying though police it's.

the police if the police coming straight. from the underground a young brother got. it bad because i'm brown and not the. other color so police think they have. the authority to kill a minority it's. been a constant theme the police. mistreatment of black people watched. 1965 detroit 67 bro 49. i mean tulsa oklahoma they're dropping. bombs on us right as citizens but 1919.

chicago. uh the cops. i mean when you think about what's going. on the mistreatment of black people. has been extraordinary that's why king. in his 1963 i have a dream speech. talked about. the marvelous new militancy and some of. us have come straight where you know he. talks about police brutality he mentions. it in his speech because it's so central. to the experience of black people so. that is the common denominator.

of our experiences as black people in. this country with the police that has. led often to urban rebellions and social. uprisings and riots in this country. doug let's get back let's talk about. your education you matriculated you went. to an ivy league school you went to. princeton are you a sociology professor. at georgetown university what made you. pursue academia. well. you know. i was seen as a bright kid i got a. scholarship out.

to a uh suburban. uh school that was one of the top. schools in the country top ten. uh prep schools maybe top five cranbrook. went out there never gone to school with. white kids before. uh got jacked up racism. got jacked up man racism was out there. big time even among the elite the. affluent. i mean on my. door at night. uh in the dorm room. this is when roots was first coming out.

and it was like uh. blank word go home then they made a. video audio tape we're going cigar. fishing today oops no we're not we're. going nigar fishing what's debate how. many grits so this is the 1960s 1976. you know 77 i mean i think roots came. out 77. yeah so 1977 when it's coming out i. think i went you know went there. had that experience it was horrible got. kicked out came back went to night. school.

uh. you know got a girl pregnant i ain't. saying it was a shotgun wedding but a. revolver was in the room. i was i was. uh what 18 she was 26. what. yeah i ain't going to speak on on what. that was about but anyway. that the world the vote they see you. tried hey like the wall people say. you're being fancy dog you're being. managed out there watch this watch this.

yellow [ __ ] got some surprises too. but anyway. so. i had a son. i was a teen father. get quickly got divorced woman said she. didn't even love me i was like dang you. gonna tell me this before we got married. i didn't go to college so i was 21. i. said i was an emergency substitute. janitor i hustled on the street i i. picked up steel with my father so we. could wear downtown i painted houses i i.

shoveled snow i did whatever it took to. support my family at 21 i said i got to. go back to college. to support my son went to knoxville. college historically black college down. in knoxville. and then. you know became a i was an ordained. minister at the same time. and i thought i was going to be a. preacher i am a preacher but i thought i. was going to be an ordained minister. i've been an ordained minister for 41. years but i thought i was going past her. i passed the three different churches in. tennessee. but when the third one put me out. because i was trying to ordain black.

women. i was way ahead of the game i wasn't. just talking to talk that was in 1982. 83 yeah that was that was that was that. was really a no-no back then doc i mean. it was they didn't really allow women in. the pulpit let alone. not not at all but i wasn't stupid so i. said well i'm gonna go here first. and i'm gonna teach for a year. and and teach them how to just so they. can become deacons. so i wasn't trying to ordain women as. ministers i was just trying to ordain. them as deacons that was still a no-no.

too but i figured i'd start right there. now i already got kicked out of school. for not going to i got kicked out of. school i was a straight a's in. philosophy because i was protesting the. fact they only had one speaker a year. and i said why they said uh given your. number son that's all you deserve that's. the percentage of black people here you. only deserve one speaker a year. i was like man later for all that so i. protested you had to go to a chapel. every tuesday and i got kicked out of. school so then i went to pastor then i. got kicked out of pastoring.

i got it one sunday morning i i went to. church the keys wouldn't fit the door i. was like oh okay they gave me some new. new keys okay went to my office keys. didn't fit i said oh okay they gonna. hook me up with a new office man these. people are good when i did. when i did a preach i said man it's a. lot of people out here i ain't never. seen before i said i must be getting. good dog. yeah members of the church they called. there to try to put my black butt out of. there. and they voted they got up after i. preached they said pastor there's a.

problem in the church i said well let's. deal with it deacon he said the problem. is you. man they voted that day put my black. butt out gave me one month severance pay. and told me to hit the road brother. and i had a wife and a child. so. you know i know that it ain't just black. and white it's right and wrong bro. that's what the bottom line is right so. uh i got kicked out of school went to. pastor. got kicked out of church went back to. school i said well i might as well. finish with the waiver.

my degree. and while doing that. i said i don't think i want a pastor i. think i want to teach. the lord has revealed to me that might. be my strength right so. you know i got into vanderbilt you know. tremendous school got into brown. tremendous school got into. uh princeton so i ended up going to. princeton out of those three schools. and as they say the rest is history man. and i'm you know and i and i didn't go. to college i was 21 so i made it lost. time and tried to do a lot of things and.

you know sail through school you know. become a full professor i got my. i got my phd one year the next year. i had tenure and a full professorship at. the university of north carolina chapel. i left brown where i was already. teaching they were gonna give me tenure. there but i got overnight in one year. what it takes people 18 to 20 years to. do i got tenure and full professorship. so i said let me make up for the lost. time i had out there and do what i got. to do and i said i'm gonna write books.

i'm gonna teach young people i'm gonna. try to use my platform to tell the truth. and to fight for justice and that's what. i've tried to do. god what is what do you think is hbc's. role in this um obviously they do not. have the financial backing they don't. have i mean they have some alumni but. the alumni is not like a bill gates or. or warren buffett or one of these guys. that's going to give a billion and two. billion dollars to the endowment fund so. what roles does hbcu uh play in. educating educating the youth of black.

america well that's a great that's a. great point and a great question i mean. they're they're critical they're they're. they're serious i mean you're gonna. handle robert smith going to morehouse. for giving 43 million dollars a debt it. just ain't gonna happen that's a drop in. the bucket right because right about i. mean as incredible as that gesture was. but you know think about the endowment. of harvard is what i don't know seven. eight billion dollars maybe more maybe. more than that. it's maybe up to 20 billion by now you. know. so princeton where i went 20 23 billion.

i mean come on man so. but. a high percentage of black people. who graduate from college still graduate. from hbcus. and you know people say why is that. you go to these white schools pwi's. that didn't mean that's not pwt with. michael jackson pretty young. predominantly white institution. sometimes black people and brown people. and red and yellow people are so tired. after four years.

they don't beat my butt so bad. i wanna see no school. i'm done. where'd you go to howard. morehouse talladega spelman. you go. i'm the stuff. i can do anything i'm smarter than. anybody. and then they go on to graduate school. they go on to get graduate degrees and. terminal degrees so they've been. supported. and. stood up for four years i mean uh you. know treated in a way where they become.

upstanding citizens i mean and. they are backed. and undergirded. by the belief that they are doing. something extraordinary whereas they're. beat down at the white schools. so those black schools serve a critical. function all three of my kids went there. son morehouse other son um. uh hampton and my daughter spelman. i started knoxville college those. schools are extremely important in. valuing black life and supporting black.

knowledge in supporting black people who. will do tremendous things and giving. them a sense that what their value and. goal and struggle is is worthy of. support and that those institutions. continue to play a key role in the. education. and the support of black people in this. nation. i myself. went to hbcu ssu the tigers and like you. said doc i really believe that was the. best thing for me because i believe my. professors sincerely cared about me i.

don't really know how many of them knew. i played football because i don't. remember seeing any of them at the game. but they they educated me they saw. something in me they they wanted me to. do well even if the football aspect. because they're on my resume. their professors their doctors at. savannah state they're on my resume so. if i go out into the world and i don't. do well well where are you where did you. graduate from son. uh ssu so they needed to prepare me. to make sure i made them look good and i.

like to think i've done a great job of. that you've done a hell of a job you've. made him so proud. i mean hall of fame but more than that a. better man than the hall of fame a deep. and insightful thinker a man whose. desire for self-improvement has driven. you to the heights of yet another. profession that's remarkable that's an. incredible and that's a testimony not. only to your own internal drive and. desire. but to the kind of pedigree of those. teachers who took you under wing and.

mentored you in a fundamental fashion. doc you. like i said when i introduced you you're. obviously your sociology professor you. got all these degrees you taught all. these classes you can wax poetically. about sports you can write poetically. about religion the hip-hop culture. jay-z you taught a class on jay-z your. clue you wrote a book on jay-z you're. close to jay-z. give us some insight give the people. some insight into jay-z and what makes. him great.

i mean just like you. he's a humble. and self-possessed brother now when he's. got to talk about his greatness on. record he's going to do that because he. can hang with the best of them but as an. individual and a human being this is not. an arrogant dude. this is a he's a confident man. beautiful spirit people think you know. he's very reserved in the sense that you. know he's he does he's cool he's got. passion. uh but he's able to articulate his ideas.

with eloquence. with intelligence you know anybody who. sits down with jay-z will discover. within one minute of how smart he is how. well-read he is how he understands the. complicated nuanced perspectives of a. variety of fields including business and. entrepreneurship but also committed. deeply to social justice i can't tell. you how many meetings i've been in with. him. where he's trying to leverage his. authority as a billionaire in this. country and tyler tyler perry just.

joined him what up tyler what's up medea. is now. so. when you think about that all that he. possesses. he can still keep it real can still spit. with the best of them he's like lebron. 50 years old. and he's still you know he's still out. there doing it. on the internet they're like you should. spit it i'm like you should buy it. brother that's good business so he's. still out there doing his thing just. dropped the song with pharrell. 50 years old making relevant rap music.

understanding his place and position of. authority in this culture. married to beyonce and as partners they. have you know produced three beautiful. children. uh they are magnificent parents he's a. remarkable human being and people don't. understand i know they got mad at the. nfl deal look it's starsky and hutch. it's inside outside his three-point shot. is baseline we need both and not either. or and what he has done. to uh to encourage roger goodell in the.

nfl to do some stuff they would have. never done what do you think those that. campaign for all those commercials came. from and indeed even though it didn't. work out there was pressure from him in. this in you know within the house of the. nfl to grant uh you know colin. kaepernick a trial so a lot of stuff. people don't understand uh jay-z has. been behind and is an extraordinary. figure and he's got a woman running his. company desiree perez the ceo he never. given people even mentioned that kind of.

credit to jay-z. for credit in the sense that he. understands that regardless of your. gender or your sexual orientation look. how he spoke about that his mother uh. coming out the closet and embracing the. full beauty of her identity as a lesbian. so so this man has been through a lot. has written about it has talked about it. has made great music about it and. continues to be an inspiration musically. but also has evolved to uh an epic.

businessman a global entrepreneur and a. a kind of uh advocate for justice who's. strong and who's consistent who to go. i didn't even know who to. go i'll be kobe your golden basketball i. don't know who you golden football you. go back and forth i mean one minute is. tom brady and then you like jerry rice. and so i don't know. no it's cold basketball but i need to. know who to go hip-hop and his rap bay. as a as a football player i'd still say.

jerry rice but i don't know but but but. but i don't know tom brady is. tom brady's greatest quarterback ever. ain't no doubt about that i mean the. goat it's like what jordan says about. different genres and eras right you. think about think about standing by the. speakers suddenly i heard a fever it. wasn't me or either summer bad did you. think about rock him rock here. you think about rock him doing his thing. but then the game changed up but look. it'd be hard to put anybody above j and. nas who's going who's above j and w.

who's above j and knows bro who's above. j and knots i just i don't and i love. i love. fidget tupac i love biggie and tupac but. i'm talking about skill. longevity. the ability to produce. over space and time to even be seen as. having not a hit record and then coming. back i mean man jay and nas. those guys there to me are unparalleled. in terms of what they're able to do so. jay-z is in a class by himself as an.

entrepreneur. who's become a billionaire and an artist. and look at what nas has done by. leveraging his own artistic new year and. his genius uh as a rhetorician. not only into great businesses but also. as a socially conscientious you know. above ground. uh you know positive conscious rapper so. both i mean jay and nas are just. uh incredible it would be hard it would. be hard to outrank them and then there.

are a lot of other great people like you. said biggie. pock. i mean look scarface. common you know black thought is i mean. there's so many of you lauren hill kris. what okay doc i know you're watching. this video. nc light i mean you know come on this is. what you watch this versus battle we saw. ludacris and nelly we saw erica baidu. and jill scott we saw snoop and dmx we. just saw monica and brandy so okay if so.

if you're gonna be jay versus nine who's. the next versus battle you'd like to see. oh man the jay knives would be off the. chain really because they're friends. because those things those verses are. not really versed against anybody it's. just really sharing your catalogue right. people even though people gonna make. judgments. uh. but yeah i mean the monika and uh brandy. was dope i mean both of them are amazing. uh. i would love to see. uh queen latifah at mc light.

that way because they're both of them. are so dope yeah they are so dope uh. that would be amazing if you think about. a scarface who's one of the greatest. slept on of all time. versus maybe a beanie sequel. you know i think that would be off the. chain too because the density or a black. thought. you know. versus uh a royce the five nine i mean. you know these are geniuses everybody. i've mentioned to you.

are rhetorical masters of their art form. oh i got one if they were both alive. prince michael jackson oh my god. yeah hell who you got. i mean prince is. duke ellington and michael jackson is. louis armstrong. so so. you know duke ellington played. instrument. yes. you know could compose yes.

play. could do the whole thing right yes. and. i mean he didn't sing but he might have. you know did a couple things but then. louie armstrong yeah but that's tax mode. but he played that horn right he. composed stuff but he was you know so. they had different and i remember once. i think it was uh. you know uh. marcellus who made that comparison. between jordan and magic johnson or was. it magic johnson and byrd i don't know. but he was talking about the difference.

between armstrong. and between um. uh louis louis armstrong and duke. ellington so both i mean and i look i i. knew prince better i met him a few times. he brought me to his compound a genius. only time i met michael jackson. in the bathroom at the wet at the. funeral of uh johnny cochran. and he's getting his washing his hands. this is before colby clearly. i like how you uh talk on tv. i said uh.

i like how you sing on stage. i mean. michael jackson as a as a as a performer. is until beyonce i know people going to. get mad out there i don't care what. y'all say ain't nobody doing what. beyonce doing for two hours you know. blind stop i saw him michael would don't. believe him. michael jackson take a break i ain't mad. you know you do your little thing you do. the moonwalk and all that other stuff. and it was great then take a little. break and do some more stuff.

this woman is singing straight for two. hours at the height of her vocal. capacity and performance greatest. entertainer of all time but before her. it was michael jackson. and michael's still number two you know. uh to me. but i mean greatest entertainer at his. point i mean prince is a phenomenal. entertainer but i'm gonna take friends. doc you get all that running around i'm. taking prince all around. him he's gonna play the guitar he's. gonna sing he gonna dance i mean if you. want a one-man concert it's gonna be him.

no question about it so i can't be mad. at that but they're both geniuses okay. well but body of work i don't know it'd. be if you said you said beyonce is great. so who you want to see beyonce go. against or is there anybody worthy of. going against beyonce i mean who could. beyonce really i guess taylor swift i. don't know. i mean maybe maybe but none of them. ain't nobody got her catalog i mean. ain't nobody fooling with b. anybody fooling would be like that how. about this if she was alive. whitney houston mariah carey oh that.

would be a hell of a one yeah that'd be. a hell of a one you know i got you hey. because both of them had unbelievable. range oh no doubt i'm talking about from. here to here but no doubt now mariah's. range was greater in terms of. those notes but passion and color of. what whitney did is so powerful i mean. and they loved each other and their. voices you know people tried to compare. them but there's you know no comparison. in terms of what you did in his or her i. mean her own lane but both of them yeah.

that would that would be doper than dope. man. doc. bro i really appreciate your time you. laid it down for us today i know i know. you're a busy man you got a busy. schedule you're in the process of. writing enough finishing up another book. and you gave me a few hours of your time. today doc i really appreciate it you're. shannon sharp you're sharper than most. people you uh you you cast a broad. shadow of your humanity i love your. ability to talk you and skip you know.

inspire me a black man a white man on. television every day telling the truth. about race. in ways that we don't get in most arenas. so i honor you i celebrate you uh your. desire to get better and the. extraordinary talent you have exhibited. uh you're just the best brother so it's. always an honor to hang out with y'all. and honor. you. and to do this program thank you brother. thank you i appreciate it i'll see you. down the road doc look forward to it.

all my life been grinding all my life. sacrifice hustle paid the price. wanna slice got the roll of dice that's. why all my life i've been grinding all. my life look all my life been running. all my life. sacrifice plus we'll pay the price. wanna slice got to roll the dice that's. why all my life i've been grinding all. my life. [Music]. you know what to do hit the subscribe. button to become an official member of. club shay shape where we always do.

something before tucson.