Kirk Franklin's Unforgettable Conversation With Shannon Sharpe - Laughs, Emotions & Prayers

you ain't been to black church in the W. yeah but they they they don't normally. see share secrets like that you need to. start coming on back to to Black no I. better not go back there they might sh. some sacrifice hustle P the price want a. slice got the roll of dice that's why. all my life i' been grinding all my life. all my life gruning all my life. sacrifice hustle P the price want a.

slice got the roll a dice that's why all. my life I've been grinding all my. life can you believe we're this deep. into the NFL season we got to make every. second count with draftking Sportsbook. you can make the most out of every game. Daye bet on your favorite teams for a. shot at winning big bucks new customers. can score 150 instantly in bonus bets. for betting five on any match up get in. on the action with draftking Sportsbook. an official sports betting partner of. the NFL download the app now use code.

Shannon new customers can score 150. instantly in bonus bets for betting just. five books on the NFL only on draftking. Sportsbook with code Shannon the crown. is yours hello welcome to another. edition of Club sh Shay I am your host. Shannon sharp I'm also the proprietor of. Club Shay the guy that's stopping by for. conversation today is a multiplatinum. selling artist A Gifted songwriter choir. Master extraordinaire producer director. Superstar music genius he was the first. gospel artist to sell over a million.

copies on his first album first person. to spend 100 weeks at number one on the. billboard songwriting chart a 19 time. Grammy award-winning artist inaugural. induct of the black music and. entertainment Walk of Fame television. and film executive producer host. motivational speaker New York Times. bestselling author 30 years in the. industry a father a husband a. philanthropist Trailblazer icon Legend. phenomenon the king of urban gospel Kirt. Franklin live.

did I did I leave lies did I leave. anything out lies they're all lies. they're all lies I thought I came here. for something real I already see where. we're going but this let's go ahead and. start now next question you want the. real stuff next question okay the real. stuff okay I didn't know I was going to. come here because I've been watching. your show I'm such a fan I love what you. do yeah and you gonna bring. out notes yeah but I got to but see I. got I got to I got to let my audience. know who I'm bringing to the stage but I. don't care about them Shannon I care. about you I come here for you okay okay. we we going to get to some good stuff we.

go but I got to get the real I got to. get I got to get my I got to build up I. got to build this up finish finish I'm. I'm just you want me to finish go ahead. whatever you got to do whatever you got. do please continue please continue. please continue no no no no no no no we. good we good we good we good bro we're. good King thank you thank you for. gracing because this is the first time. we've had someone what I try to do at. Club sh what we try to do as a team is. that we try to bring celebrities. entertainers musicians all different. walks that has a very interesting story.

and we're going to get to your story. because I believe you have a very very. unique and very interesting story and so. hopefully you can share some stories. that you've never told before and some. things for the very first time and let. our audience get an opportunity to see. Franklin as long as you on try to make. it all. churchy all stiffy as long as you just. keep it real swaggy like you do. everybody else don't be coming in here I. don't want no communion crackers you. know what I'm saying I don't want none. of that you know just you know keep it. real you already brought some water I.

know I see you got your sh sh Georg you. know you know you br you want to P some. water right quick I well if that's what. you want to do that's what you want to. do ladies and gentlemen do you see it. right now that I'm getting water poured. by one of the greatest athletes and uh. commentators of our time isn't this a. beautiful thing this is such a blessing. such a blessing but but then you know. Jesus turned the water into wine so. don't well maybe you can turn maybe he. turned into Kane.

K I want to thank you bro I really. appreciate it I know you're a busy man. thank you for stoping about thank you. King thank. you I want to I want to I want to start. with your career and then I'm going work. my way backwards which is something very. unique because I think you're a very. unique individual and I want to put a. different spin on this this is very nice. too congrat thank you I appreciate that. you know it's until we get our own. establishment which we working on let it. show let it show so check this out okay. you nomin you've been nominated 31 times.

for the Grammy you won. 19 the first time you won the Grammy. what did it mean and what the subsequent. Grammys mean first Gramm I won I was at. home I was at home you didn't go to the. award show first time I won I was at. home in the bed you know and it was back. in 1996 what what happened was and you. know and I really hope that you can even. deconstruct it even more as we get to. chop it up because I'm an open book okay. I'm a open we can talk about anything is. that you know coming up sometimes in.

church you can be in communities that. can be so over religious that it's. almost like there's a false humility. that people Force upon you that you. don't want to seem excited right is. because you don't want to seem like. you're too worldly right and there was. like um how old are you I'm 55 you're 55. okay so so so what it say yeah yeah yeah. I'm I'm I'm 53 so you know there's this. time where anything that looked like it.

wasn't church was the devil you remember. that back in the day I do it drives you. crazy now so a lot of times I would I. would acquest to other people's view of. don't get caught up you know that's the. world you would ACC you as to what they. thought you should be yes and I stayed. at home my first Grammy W I stayed at. home in bed because I didn't want to go. and look like I was getting caught up in. the world stuff right that's why I. didn't go that's why I didn't go go and.

there were other artists that I were. around that well that I was around that. they had the same type of ideology and. so and they were older than me because I. was so young because when I came into. the game I was the young pup right and I. wanted to show them that hey guys I want. to be like y'all and I don't want to get. caught up in the world either so y'all. downplay this stuff well I'mma downplay. it too and it was you know it was it was. it was it was the growing pains and so. that's where I was my first Gammy award. I was at the house I wasn't sick right I.

could have gone I was at home in. bed you mentioned that you stay you. downplay it because you you acues to. what the world thought a gospel musician. Urban gospel musician should be how they. should present themselves where did that. come from it is it it is it is an. ideology from a coaching a generation of. biblical illiteracy so a lot of times. when it comes to our people especially.

when you talk about something as. colonized as American Christianity. sometimes it can be ideals that people. want to make spiritual okay like we take. our personal belief systems and we super. spiritualize them and try to put them in. the Canon of scripture and try to make. them biblo Centric and they're not these. are our deal these these are our. feelings and our opinions that we force. upon people and want to make them of God. we want to make our ideas what God would. say and and that is that SS that's such.

far from the case so it can be a. cultural type of uh space that sometimes. black and brown people and you even see. it even in Catholicism even with a lot. of our Hispanic brothers and sisters so. you know there there are these things. that we force upon people that is part. of fabrics that have nothing to do with. our faith nothing to do with our. relationship with God they have to do. with well this is how I feel and when. you don't uh submit to what I think you. should do then you're not being moved or. being used by God okay but what I tell. people feelings aren't facts exactly.

because you feel a certain way that. doesn't make it truth that doesn't make. it the gospel so how so when did you. realize like hold on I'm denying myself. I'm trying to appease a certain group. when that's not how I feel that's not. how I think so when did you say you know. what I'm going I'm going to be Kirk. Frank when I started to see that nothing. I was doing was working that nothing I. did was pleasing anybody you know. because then after right after at the. next year stomp came out and I got.

crucified for Stomp and I got beat up so. you know I just started to see that. nothing I was doing was satisfying a lot. of the elders a lot of the community. that I wanted to please because again. being raised I was raised no no family. no parents being adopted I had a lot of. um acceptance issues I always wanted to. be accepted I always wanted to be liked. and I would do anything to be accepted I. would have done anything to be like so I. was just doing but so when I started to. see that they weren't working I just. kind of slowly started to just become.

comfortable with either being. scrutinized or being an outsider and. they just slowly I just became. comfortable and being whatever people. thought of me and I still struggle I do. I still struggle to this day wanting to. be liked and wanted to be accepted by. the church Community because even to. this day people think I dance too much. and you know what I'm saying I move. around too much and you know they've. heard me you know not always use the. most favorable words you know what I'm. saying people can see that not only I'm. a Christian but I got a little me you.

know and so you know I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm. always trying to find a way to show. people man I really really love God but. I'm not perfect. right you mentioned. stump is that because you dance because. you move because the the choir is. swaying back and forth is that when. you're like well hold on I'm uplifting. and then you come to the realization I'm. trying to appease a group of people that. for the M Lion Share I'm not going be. able to appease well first of all I also.

saw the post that you posted of a fight. in the club and they was playing Stone. and and uh you you you reposted it you. remember that I do that was that was. funny that was okay so. uh is is is I just think that you know. it's it's it's really trial and error. it's it's just really the standing and. falling and just trying your best to. figure out what is best for you okay. what is what is what is the motiv hend. there for you because I mean even people.

that love God love Jesus everybody don't. worship the same way correct you know. what I'm saying some people May Cry some. people may dance some people may speak. in tongu so people may run around so. people may just be somber and still but. we cannot put our systems to Faith on. other people and I just think with with. with with with stoup stomp became just. this otherworldly them that we were all. trying to figure out could stomp have. become the commercial success that it. did come had you not put the spin in.

which you put on it probably not you. know I think that it it it because at. the time Salt and I were becoming. friends she was kind of growing at her. faith and and and and we develop a. friendship and so when this remix when. this remix for stump that came out with. you know the George Clinton join in it. and and uh stump you know she heard it. asked her if she want to jump on it and. she was like yeah man I love it and she. really loved to matter matter of fact. actually flew to Texas they even do her.

vocals um where where I live is I think. that it was just the perfect storm I I I. I think because we were young I was 27. she was young God's Property was young. you know because my first because my. group was the family God's Property was. a group that I produced but but they. were already put together by this. incredible lady named Linda seite school. teacher and so I had these young kids. that were good-looking young kids they. they were they they was from the hood. and they love God and so everything was. just the right marriage at the right.

time and I'm very humble for it and very. grateful do you think some of the. blowback was because you were so young. you know in the church normally it's. elderly that's lead that's singing. That's leading devotional that's doing. the praying you mentioned you're 27. years of age and maybe something just. didn't seem to sit right with the elders. that a 27 year old is supposed to be. uplifting and serving the lord is doing. is kind of like putting this is not.

secular music that we grew up with yeah. yeah and and you can even unpack what. you even saying even more is because we. all When We Were Young back in that era. had to act old to be accepted you. remember that like like like like like. it's funny cuz people run up to me now. say y man you look younger now than you. did back then well because we were. acting and dressing old because you had. to do you know I mean our jackets were. that you remember the jackets down here. the square toe Gators and from uh City. Slickers in Detroit you remember yeah. Freeman's in Atlanta Freeman's in.

Atlanta boy don't you don't you David. David Eastman yeah yeah yeah so you know. we were all trying to the point to the. point that also there was a whole. generation of us that if we were not. married yes you know what I'm saying. they didn't think that it's like you. know you can't be single and be out. there doing God's work because we know. what single people be doing you know and. so like yeah well you could still do it. even. though but but but you got feared into a.

lot of things that you may not have been. ready for you didn't understand you. didn't know what you were doing because. the church coach at that time has such a. suppressive you got to be this you got. to look like that you got to do it like. that and so when you don't know and then. when you have a level of biblical. literacy yourself you trusting them to. give you God's word right instead of. realizing that a lot of you they giving. you their word or their interpretation. or their inter because it's passed down. you know their and their parents and.

they just passed it down and they pass. down down down down even though it's. wrong they're passing down wrong or what. they believe to be right and a lot of. that from that generation was the. colonized version of American. Christianity because it was all about. controlling black and brown people that. did not have a voice and so that control. ideal continued because that's what they. were given right you know you look at. the slave Bible and how certain pages. were ripped out just to control people. so historically we understand that.

Western religions and Western. Christianity have also unfortunately. been tools of of of of also. weaponization. yes how does you go in how do you. determine like to write a song are you. like you know I heard rappers like you. know I get up and you know I might be. sleep and something hit me and I'll get. up and I'll start writing or I have an. engineer and I start recording when you. write your song do they just come to you. or you say you know what I think it's. time for me to get back into the studio. how does how did Stomp and how did you.

know I smile and Melodies From how did. it come about oh man and just in in just. a multiplicity of ways I mean when God. is loaning a song they can come anywhere. I mean they can come when you sleep stop. light you know in the bathroom shower. you know um I mean many times I've you. know got them like I like um as I was. blessed to write a song for young lady. Tamila man called Take me to the king I. don't you ever heard Take me to the king. yeah but it's a it's a real big. beautiful song and is man isn't she like.

meet the brown okay have you heard her. sing I have. not somebody please get this man take me. to the king when this is over he's got. to hear this song he gonna be calling me. crying this big old negro this big negro. gonna call me weeping like brh brh brh. tell yeah so so man you know they just. come in in in in in just a myriad of. ways do you like okay you the you just. like I'm sleeping do you get up and.

start writing down or will it stay with. you till the morning or are you in in. the shower do you get out of the shower. do you stop what you're doing and start. to put pen to paper or or can you. remember the the sequence in which it so. many songs that have blessed people have. been written but naked next. question really but but not one sock on. I straight out the bed but if you come. over to my house don't sit on that piano.

bench sit on that piano. bench that piano bench ain't had nothing. but cheeks on that piano. bench for Jesus next. question what do you think what's Kurt. Franklin are you a better singer or are. you a better songwriter I'm a better. singer I am the worst singer in the. world and I have a career doing gospel. music it don't make no sense it don't. make no sense how God has been able to. be so kind to me and I'm not this great.

singer right what happened was is that. God was so kind enough to give me this. gift of songwriting like I don't know. what it was Shannon but as a young boy. God would just give me lyrics and. Melodies and so by God's grace man it's. just been it's it's it's amazing like. like times in my life when I've had. doubts or questions about God I'm always. confident that God exists because. I I see him vividly do the gift of.

songwriting because sh I don't even know. where they come from I don't even know. where these songs come from sh they just. come from all over the place and you. know and and all the songs that the. people have heard me do throughout the. years these are songs that God has given. me I I have never on any of my albums on. any of my albums and I say this humbly I. I I I I say it dependent on God's grace. kindness I've never Cod Rd with anyone. one never cor says God just give me God.

just be giving me these music and lyrics. and Melodies God just be kind enough to. loan them to me I believe I've never. written a song in my life every song has. been loan to me wow I believe that as a. young child were you one of those that. Always sung in the church I was the one. that was always doing music I was the. one it's because I found out earlier I. started playing when I was four okay the. woman that adopted me she uh sold cans. and she recycled cans and newspapers to. pay for my piano lessons and so she had.

a fourth grade education and I was. taking piano lessons at 4 and so I. started playing very young and I noticed. that piano playing would get girls. attention right so the more girls paid. attention to me man I done broke my. fingers you know trying to trying to get. because that's what brought me attention. right and so I got good at it you know. kind of like default and so and then. what I could do early on Shannon is I. could re is I could flip songs that was. on the radio right like I took a billly.

je uh a um the um the Ben in the jet. song by El John I flipped it he's coming. back I know he's coming back I said that. Jesus is coming. back he said that he is coming. back and I would teach you to the choir. I'll teach you the like to like the. kidss choir so I was flipping all these. songs getting in trouble in church cuz I. was doing all the the the Earth when the. fire cool in the game joints and so.

that's how it kind of just started for. me early on you kind of like a hype man. you kind of like DJ C cuz you get the. the choir like scene I'm I'm better. looking and and I move around a little. better than CI yeah CI C got bad. knees love you. C so how long does it typically take you. from start to finish to complete a song.

it all depends it can be in one night it. can be over you can write a song in a. night take me to the king God give me. that song in one night uh I smile God. gave it to me in the day uh Stomp and. yeah most most of the time most of the. time I'm going to labor with a song I'm. I'm I'm I'm not going to let it just. ride like Melodies From Heaven I I was. up at my old high school and working. with the high school choir when God Lo. me Mel from Heaven 19 1994 melage from.

heaven was. 1994. wow when you're writing do you have any. idea how successful a song is going to. be no never have you ever been surprised. like I don't know about this one and it. blows away and you like oh this is C. missing like dang I have never had a. song that I was confident in never never. Kurt Franklin that don't mean nothing. that don't mean nothing I'm I'm always. shocked I'm never confident to the song. never in my life and I'm not trying to.

be false humility dude I'm sit pretty. chilling one one one of the dopest. players in the game history I'm not. going to be you know be on any cap I I. literally have never had a song that I. was confident that people going to from. my smile to looking for you Mel Heaven. Why We Sing Now will the lamb um I mean. U my life is in your hands all these. songs why do you believe you've been. able to connect with so many people a. different ac across so many different.

genres I don't know I don't know I I I. you know it's it's it's I think that the. weirdest thing is for me when when when. the song's due if there's anything maybe. God kind of took my beginning and. because I was a hip-hop dancer my name. was Kid Fresh when I was back in the day. I could spin on my head I could rap at. skating ring you know and and I was. influenced by Urban Music I didn't get. influenced until but by gospel music. until I was about 16 a friend of mine. got killed and then that summer I uh.

trusted the Lord in my heart that that. summer and and got a little more serious. with my faith but um before that you. know smoking weed on a church parking. lot you know wild and now back in the. you know uh how the churches used to. have like the little lockin and the. teenag was spend the night church yeah. oh it was a lot of wrong lot going lot. it was a lot of wrong going on back in. the trur so you know you know I'm you. know I I I think. that I also think that what gospel music. was not doing that I think that I didn't.

intentionally try to do I was just. trying to get my own help I think I was. just really honest about how I felt in. songs like if I didn't believe God was. going to do something I didn't write it. I would write help me believe right or. you know if you know if if you know like. a song like imagine me like I was always. just trying to be honest in my song I. was trying to act like I was already. there it's because I wasn't there I was. struggling so I think I include a lot of. my struggle in where I was in life in.

songs and I think maybe and I can only. say maybe because I don't know God's. plan that maybe what it did for people. that said for people they were like me. too right you know what I'm saying I'm. there too you know and that's the only. thing that that's the only thing I can. think about I don't know because bro you. don't know how many dope gospel artists. are out there and and I know that you. know you know is it's for whatever. reason maybe because I'm little and. whatever I'm you know people see me more. whatever but man there are so many.

people in this genre Shannon they cold. cold songwriters cold singers and you. know man I'm just trying my best to let. people know that it's not just Kirk Kirk. Franklin is not only in gospel music. there's so many people and I feel like. it's my job to shed light on how many. dope you know Jonathan MC reyolds and. Tasha Cobbs Lenard The Walls Group doe I. mean it's so many hitters out here so. many Chan La Mo man it's some beast in. the game do you think because of your.

age you were able to bring a younger. generation into secular music because. when I was growing up it was surely. Caesar it was the Mississippi M choir it. was all it was the older now maybe now. that I look back at it I mean maybe they. weren't that much older but it was just. they seemed old they way older than you. yes they way older than but you I mean. in your 20s surely CES is 137 years. old that's my mom I love who who were. you listening to like like like like did.

you ever listen to any gospel music when. you was back in the day well my. grandfather Yeah uh Shirley Caesar uh. but you you and then you you no no no no. no no no no no we not rid ride soon as. soon as they got out the car we pop. something else here we probp the Earth. where to fire the BARC case Ohio Players. yes sir The Stylistics did you ever. listen to any of my music back then oh. we the ones that just came on like stom. got got got got you got you got you got. got you so yeah so so then you did know. that there was a whole bunch of like.

hitters no yeah oh man JY key Fred. Hammond have you heard of these guys I. have not brother jumpy key Fred Hammond. man just bro just the list I'm talking. about is I'm talking about Shannon the. artist that when. Beyonce and jod he would walk into the. room they'd be doing this to these. artists cuz see you got to remember. gospel music influenced black yes. absolutely because they grew up Whitney.

grew up in the church everybody. everybody so so when they walked into. the room and a Fred Hammond was in the. room or The Clark Sisters was in the. room dude the biggest pop star Justin. Timberlake they idolize these people in. gospel music and I think I really do. believe Shan that I'm that that one of. my callings in life is to shed light on. the talent and the greatness that exists. in my community. how were you able to get some of the.

biggest artist from other genres to. collab with you I'm looking at you get. Whitney Kanye Mary J Jill Scott liil. baby Chance the Rapper Mariah JT JB Demi. lado baby face Stevie W Tomar braxon. boys dein s. how I don't know I so what's the call. okay like man I think I I mean I would. like to have Beyonce or I'd like to have. this so you. you just the fall in like some and then.

some are relationships that others may. have and say hey so and so wants to you. to you to jump on something or it may be. a movie and the studio is like hey we. want to put you together with so and so. and so you know so it's just been uh. just a multiplicity of moments that that. have just kind of you know just come. from relationship and then you know. there were also people like a mar j blud. or or or a Fel and these are people that.

were raised in the church that knew the. music that I was already doing because. they were listening to it in their own. private time so when it was time to do. something they were already acclimated. not necessarily to me but through the. music that I was doing and really loved. it and so you know that kind of built. some relationship so it's it's it's it's. been a myriad of ways and I'm just very. grateful who was in the studio Kurt. Franklin was in awe of Stevie. Wonder Ste because he's Stevie Wonder.

and Stevie Wonder allowed me to produce. him too now that's what gave me again. now that's what gave me bubble guts I. got bubble guts because I because I was. I was recommending some things for him. to do vocally right and he was like and. and he was cool with I'm like okay I. can't believe that he's. trusting my compass in this song moment. and he did and it was it was you know. and I was like and I mean just to have. that for me was lifechanging but because. you talk about somebody who has just.

reached over generations and decades and. you know and and you talk about goat. status you know like he's alpaca status. you know what I. mean alpaca you know so you know to be. able to have that was just a very. beautiful moment for Michael uh Whit. me I never worked with Michael you never. worked with Michael so what would have. been like I've worked with some but but. watch this though uh John mlan who's an. incredible guy who oversees Michael.

Jackson's estate John mlan got me my uh. deal over at encope with Jimmy aen. several years ago and uh John mlan. oversees the state and so they're always. reimagining Michael's uh uh his his. catalog right and so there have been. some projects that I've redone that had. Michael on it and so I'm in the studio. listening to Michael's raw vocals and. just so you know it's it's been amazing. so what's that what's that what's that. like because we know I mean we grew up. with Mike I'm talking about in The. Jackson 5 and then he went off the wall.

big nose Michael Michel. afro baby hair M yeah yeah yeah we so we. grew up with Mike so what's it like to. like to hear his. voice unfiltered uncut it is it is it. makes you feel a level of. unworthiness that you are experiencing. royalty in the room to be able to take. all the tracks out and you can hear just. Michael breathing and Michael singing. Michael doing pants and I'm talking. about I've been blessed to work on quite.

a few projects for Jonathan I mean for. for for for John mlan where I'm working. on Michael's raw vocals I'm working with. Michael's stuff that he did with his. brothers and stuff he did with himself. and trying to reimagine it and it is. like royalty and the fact that he was. that because back then was no autotune. you know what I mean that's that's that. that's him bro that's him stomping and. breathing while he's seeing you it's. it's it's it's because everything right. now you know is don't nobody want to.

hate on the Next Generation but. everything is so produced everything is. so filtered down over produced at at at. times but the challenge is was. overproduced now is what people's ears. are accustomed to and so people like it. right so if you don't overproduce it. they gonna think that person can't they. don't like it it's because now music is. not music anymore music now is a Vibe. right it's a Vibe and and and and if the. music had that Vibe and sometimes the. vibe is overproduced sometimes the vibe.

is slowed down slow the voice down. filter the voice down so you're not. going in it like Michael cuz Michael was. just breathing sweating and you can you. can heit a stank on the microphone. spitting on the microphone and you know. that that that was a great moment for. me Prince Michael Whitney if you had an. opportunity to work with those what do. you think that would be like for you. I've had a chance to work with Whitney. um how's Whitney's voice. you know are you hear I mean to hear it.

on a on on on a record to hear her and. when she's doing things but to be there. is it has to be different in studio than. it. is in an arena yeah you know she she. well and then see Whitney is not fair. because Whitney was a church girl and. she never CH she never turned that off. so it wasn't far removed from the worlds. that we lived in you her and CeCe were. cool she was cool all these other people. people so so Whitney was just an. extension of the world that I came from.

um Prince um Prince came I I was I was I. was seated at an event Shannon and. during the commercial break Prince came. down to me and kneel before me and he. gave me he said uh here's my number and. I want you to come to Minneapolis and. jam with me and you know I didn't go it. was so early on in my career those. voices from that church culture because. you know you know Prince W you know. he'll do music in his draws yeah yeah.

yeah I remember he'll come to Studio on. a g string yeah yell yeah you to yell. with with with the butt out cheeks out. his cheeks out and I didn't you know and. and so you know so people saying his. cheeks out I didn't want to be trying to. argue well you know what you know what. you know his cheeks is I but he do good. music you know so I so I didn't even. return to it's I didn't even um that's I. didn't I didn't even take him up on oh. he said he said I want you come to. Minneapolis and jam and I didn't do it. man I didn't do it he called the crib.

you got to go just to see Paisley Park I. know I want to he called the crib he. called the crib bro and kissed my baby. and said hey said Hey to Tammy before he. left and and I let fear get in the way. of of me working with him what artist. today would you like to do a collab with. that you hav if you haven't done one. with them who would you like to do a. collab with. you know is I know that some of the.

church folk would probably get me again. man but you. know I am a fan of the lical genius of. sha. Carter. oh I am I am I think lyrically he's a. juggernaut the fact that he doesn't. write what he says down and the. intentionality of the conversations that. he has good and bad right you know um. I'm I'm just I've always been because. you know we're in the same age.

demographic you know so I've got a you. know I've had a chance to live with with. his journey it would be Sean Carter and. uh. sting wow Sting from the police I those. those would be my two. dream and if he was living I would love. to work with Andre. Crouch Andre Crouch was a great gospel. oh yeah yeah yeah yeah the wi and I. think James Cleveland all that my.

grandfather you showing your age you're. sure your age sure your age sure your. age yeah man but so Prince was the one. that you like man I mean he might have. had y'all might could have done a song. together his cheeks was out I'm it was. man that a got nothing to do with that. the man you like you said he he was a. genius oh you you talking about right. oh oh and you know like like I don't. even have that conversation with people. you know when everybody bring up the. Michael Prince I don't even do that but. first of all it's it's an insult to.

their greatness but they were two. different two different Phenom but. Prince musically the fact because you. know Prince could play every instrument. and then he could go into the studio and. engineer when he plays that's just a. whole another bohemuth that that's. that's that's yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. you going walk you going to walk around. with your cheeks out if you can do all. that you see what I'm saying yeah his. mind has to be because you think about. what he raspberry Ray and and and and. and pink and Pink Cashmere all of that.

the Mind snow as in April oh I mean. Purple Rain under the Cherry Moon snows. in April just even that line and he was. having that kind of line back in the 80s. yes yes he he was mute he was way ahead. of his time because the way he was. thinking I was like who you remember. lady cap driver yes do you know that's. him on drums is it listen to the pack.

Prince is playing drums lady C driver. won't you take me. yeah genius I mean so as far as. songwriters you might have to like. Stevie Prince baby face baby yeah face. Stevie Prince baby face and I'mma tell. you who I think let me tell you who. I'mma tell you a name and you tell me. what you think of this name let me tell. you who I think should have. been where did like you remember when.

Diddy had domain over all what was. happening musically yes let me tell who. I think and Timberland like like like. you remember how much domain Timberland. had just to real estate let me tell you. a name I'm G throw out a name to you and. I'm going tell you who I think that we. slept on that he should have been the. name that really dominated the. conversation of '90s black pop music. Devon. from JY yeah you remember the sound that.

jodic brought in because they were. Church boys yes they were Church boys. but Devon they brought something else in. babies that what they brought that what. they brought in brought in a lot of. babies brought a lot of babies a lot of. babies Devon's production if you listen. to those JC records his production it. was like what but then again he come up. under you know that that Virginia World. him for real.

he was he was working onell Devon Devon. I think is a name that we miss and. forget when it comes to popular black. music so when you you you go down this. path you you're denying who you really. are to appease the masses because that's. what they think it should be you're. trying to appease them so that's what. you think it should be yeah so now so. how do you make that flip and want to. perform because you're a performer at.

the end of the day yeah you a songwriter. yeah you can sing but I've seen you. you're a performer at the end of the DAT. you see me before yeah I saw you where. you see me before I got. TV TV you you're a performer and when. you're up there I think sometimes you. like okay yeah I know this is SEC Urban. gospel music. but you're not you're not moving like. Miss. Maji and brother Brown in the Deacon's.

Court I I just enjoy having fun I I. enjoy having fun I enjoy what I what I'm. what I'm what I'm what I'm blessed to do. and and I love getting excited about my. faith and I love getting excited about. the music and sometimes I'm prob. sometimes I probably do too much I know. I probably move around too much but you. know I'm I'm forgetting and getting just. getting lost in the beauty of the. moments you know man PES want to do a. going to do a collab he don't want to do. nothing he don't want to do nothing he. don't want to do nothing he don't want.

to do nothing he don't want to do. nothing he be talking he be running his. mouth that's all he be talking he be. just running his mouth you hear that he. said you be talking you bum yeah yeah. it's because we we were supposed to be. gu together we was going to do something. in Florida and Miami what yeah he don't. want to do nothing he don't want to do. nothing it's because I think he's really. really really afraid that I could be his. [Laughter]. daddy swag. I mean you come here today you got the. LV on you dripped I mean you're not.

dressed. typic like the church would want you to. dress so how did you say you know what. man I ain't going to wear no square toes. Gator I ain't going to wear no Stacy. Adam with no rib socks I'm not going to. wear no Long Jacket. hey but there was a time I did though. that's what I'm saying there was a time. I did I had to get I had to square toe. game you a small man though you can't be. wearing those big old Zoo suit I know. and that's why I look the fool that's.

why I look the fool trying to trying to. appease the church people I you know is. I just think that I'm Shannon you know. how it is man the older you get the more. comfortable yes you find yourself in. your skin yes you got to be you know. what I mean I'm 53 my first Alum came. out I was 23 so I've lived through my. 20s I've lived through my 30s I've lived. through my 40s I'm comfortable who don't. like me now ain't going to like me. correct not at 53 ain't nothing I can do. to change anybody's mind now nothing and.

those who rock with me you know we'll go. to Baby Gap and I'll give me a on Z and. you know what I'm saying to keep it. pushing so the dance moves I mean when. you up there oh my gosh I mean you be. doing the later dance mov I be you be. watching oh my gosh and you. incorporating them oh my gosh I'll be. just having fun I'm not a dancer like I. couldn't go to a studio and learn. choreography right I couldn't I would be. horrible and a one and a two and a wi. and a stop and a turn I couldn't do it. it would be horrible so I'm just really.

having fun I'm just having fun I'm I'm. having fun and I'm excited man to be. telling people how dope Jesus is man and. I have a good time doing it I just have. a good time I think that what has always. been confusing to me Shannon is that we. say that we got the truth right we say. we got the light of love and we got the. hope and compass from people but we can. be the most Square the most lame acting. people in the world and so for me I just.

need to be counterintuitive to all of. the social constructs of what people. think a a a a Christian should be and. shouldn't be and shouldn't do when I'm. walking around telling y'all the man I'm. in love with the creator of the universe. that should get you lit right that. should get you turned more than more. than talking about you know is I was on. the Block you know with with that with. that with that work in my backpack and W. whoop and it's like bro bro I'm out here. giving you this Jesus right and you.

can't be lit with me right I'm I'm that. that is always confuse me we should be. the most excited most on fire most. loving most compassionate most forgiving. people in the world because we look in. the mirror every day and see what we. were we see who we are and if it waser. for God's grace where would I be yeah we. also the most judgmental you left that. part out and it's sad but why do you. think that is. man and just keep it a.

buck I just think the thing is is that. we have a hard time seeing someone that. looks like us have more than us and it's. not the fact that it's not the fact that. they don't have it they just don't want. you to. have because for the longest time as. long because you had I've had homies as. long as I was doing what they was doing. had the exact same thing as they had. nothing more nothing less yeah we cool. yeah yeah I start to go here they didn't. go with me yeah that's a problem I.

changed yeah I did unfortunate part. about it you didn't change with me but. it's it's it's sad because when I hear. most of the harsh and I don't have no. problem with you critiquing me if. there's uh my performance I'm on. television and something I didn't word. it properly okay but to just dislike me. or to say something so negative just. because yes that's the problem that. that's where I. like the old saying it be your own.

people and it does cuz most of the. people that criticize me on social media. they ain't of the opposite. race they look like. me well my my only criticism seriously. would be is I think you brush your teeth. too. much I just don't see how that's fair to. your teeth I just don't I to to me to to. to me that's. that's that's that's that's that's teeth.

brutality no C I got 130 bands with. veneers and. implants but they don't need that much. that that that I mean you can't be all. up in I mean you all up in people faith. and they'll be like yeah yeah man okay I. I'll see you later but Shannon how often. do you do it a day once again how much. one uh 7 to 10 that's what I'm saying. that that that is discrimination that. that there there there's there's. something very. Co to that toothbrush that can you.

imagine the trauma that that toothbrush. I change it out every two weeks so then. you abandon the toothbrush that's what. I'm saying so you just so so so you're. not even loyal no not to the toothbrush. no I mean with that many times I mean. you only get you only get so many. brushes out of a toothbrush I think you. need therapy maybe yeah I I I I just. don't think that's right and and I'm. going to be praying for you on that okay. that's why what if I cut it down to. five.

half but I can't leave the house I mean. I can't leave the house without brushing. my teeth so do you have a hosis problem. do you feel like your breath I don't. think so but I don't want to run the. risk have you ever had a woman say it to. you no I've never had so then just I. would say but that would be that would. be a bad feeling cuz I've had I mean. have you ever had to tell somebody and. if you have to find the the appropriate. way to tell someone that do you know. being in church how many preachers with. bad breath be praying over you all the.

stinky prayers yeah probably why God. ain't heard it prerit yet cuz he keeping. them away. from look negro brush your teeth once in. the morning brush your teeth before you. go to bed and keep it moving two times a. day that's what the average dentist. would tell you to do no see see see. remember how they thought in the church. how it should be you see how they see. how they pass that down to you. mhm so you said we got you said we got.

colonized Dennis two oh just after after. every meal n i mean soon as I get up in. the morning I got before I do anything I. don't go downstairs before I brush my. teeth that's fair that's right okay now. I. eat I got to brush him. again that's kind of fair okay I get to. work I got to brush him again before I. got to brush them again before I go on. air what happened what happened before. you left the crib I mean you left the. crib and you get to where ain't nothing. happen nothing nothing no because if. some if something else happen then you.

don't have a toothbrushing problem you. got a whole there's a whole another. fungus no I'm I'm good yeah no I I brush. I floss I go twice a year to the dentist. you know make sure everything okay. inside is good so no I don't have no I. don't have no problem I don't like you. said maybe I you know what maybe it is a. little obsessive but what's normal what. is normal because what's normal to you. might not be normal to me obviously. what's normal to me is not normal to you. well I brush my teeth a couple of times.

a week that that. that's what' you do what' you. do I'm lying I brush my teeth every day. every day just once in the morning and. the night Shannon Jesus I sure hope you. don't go out your. house as a child did you play sports as. a child. Shannon I've been this height since I.

was six so I've struggled with sports. now did you want to play sports now I. tried to run track I was good in track. okay because I was tired of getting my. butt whooped so I was always good at. running right you know so yes I could. run track I was good in track but then. by the time I got to high school. everybody grew right and and and it it. was a rap it was a rap so did you did. you know all the trauma that just coming. back in my I I I just remember just. everybody growing up and I had didn't. get to J to grow up so okay as a as a. six seven year old 8y old your average.

height then all of a sudden you go for. the summer and you still that same. height and everybody and then another. summer bro I'm talking about that but. that summer between the eth and nth. grade right it was like uh oh and then. the summer between the ninth and 10th. grade it went oh oh it was oh with a. with with like a cuss word and so every. year bro right and it's like okay am I. going to be like a little person you. know you know like I was going to have. to like you know always car like a car.

seat you know would I be able to wear. would I be able to ride all the rides at. Six Flags you know you know well I. always have to wear clothes that have. like a big zipper in the front right you. know I just didn't really know what was. going to happen. today so how obviously you know look. this is not new I mean they call it. bullying now we call it picking make fun. of your size your. height you know how we do do you know. that when it came to girls and when it. came to things I did not have I did not.

know that my hype was a big issue until. I had a career and then after I had a. career I could hear people like oh he's. Shen person he's Shen person right but. but before that I never had a girl say. I'm not going to date you cuz you're. short really you kind of said oh my bad. yeah that was I mean I see I see what is. this what what what is what what okay. okay I was because that hurt me so bad. my just I was I was like Wow but you.

said it loud I did and and but I didn't. mean to blurt it out like that cuz I. didn't mean to seem as surprised as I. was but I am kind of. surprised I mean because I mean you I. mean normally you know they want the big. athlete they want but you could see you. know what you could sing I could play. that piano see yeah see that see that. you couldn't play that piano see that's. what you that's how you get musicians. entertainers and athletes do you know. how short Prince is I do and pris could. take you a woman yeah yeah yeah.

yeah well consider consider the guy in. the 10th grade took out so I don't think. pris would have any. problem see man you got me I I was just. joking what was your favorite sport as a. child you know I didn't play sports as a. child until school and I ran track. outside of that it was music everything. was music but you had that okay let me. let me let me ple off you the athlete.

I'm trying to tell you that okay from. Dallas please tell me I'm from Fort. Worth you from Fort Worth okay your. favorite team. to my favorite I I never had a is I. never had a favorite team coming up. that's one off it's because I remember. liking ly Swan oh theor well no no no I. remember liking Tony daret I remember. liking Joan namoth I remember liking uh.

you know just just different and and. I've got so many you like the team where. you state that you're. from. yes you went all the way around the. world just to say that I like L SW I. like Joe neighbors man stop that you. know good well you love to Cowboy well. no no here what I'm saying I'm not a big. Sports guy so I'm not really paying.

attention to maybe like the playoffs or. the Championships and then I get you got. cowboy parap in your house no you ain't. got nothing no Cowboy helmet no Jersey. no no posters Mavericks nothing no I was. not that kid I had on my wall I had pull. outs of GQ magazine that's what I had on. my wall I had to had posted like Ralph. Lauren you know like Perry Ellis I I was. that guy I was that kid you see it's. easy for you to dress oh because I'm. little but you be fly I see you yeah but.

most of the stuff has to be custom or it. have to be extra large by me so you just. go get off the rack I do and some stuff. I can get with the whole thing is on the. same. rack hold. on John Drummond John Drummond track. runner yeah best friend John jman best. friend gold medalist could you ever out. running it just depends what we're. running. from depends what we're running from.

shout out to John Drummond no man I have. a lot of great athlete friends Den um um. Dion and I right close friends uh EMT. great friends uh Kurt Warner great. friends um um I have a lot of great. friends uh Chris Paul Chris Paul right. great friends okay and and and they love. me because I don't know nothing about. what they do is we don't talk sports we. just talk about life I know none of the. stats and all that if you weren't a.

musician what would Kurt Franklin be. doing I think I would love to be a. fourth grade school teacher what I would. love to work with kids kids. bad and they teachers don't make any. money they don't make any money but I. love teaching and helping it might have. been okay before the cell phone came out. now you know every fourth grader got a. cell phone fourth gr and then the. internet and they want to be on the cell. phone when you teach your L that is true. that is true but I probably would have.

loved to be a school teacher or. something like that I don't know I don't. know I've been doing music all my whole. life I don't know what else I do you had. a mo yeah hold on you had a soundtrack. on the movie Norbit Any Given Sunday and. yeah is I had a song in the movie Norbit. and I had a song in Any Given. Sunday you know that's not normal for uh. a gospel artist yeah I'm grateful I'm. very grateful yeah do you.

understand just how big you. are it's I don't think it's necessary to. even even have the conversation I think. that it's a mute moment for me and. there's nothing beneficial about it for. me for me personally right I'm not. saying it's wrong for anybody else but. for Kirk conversations of self glory and. self self self-loathing spaces for me.

I'd rather be in rooms or have. conversations about how dope you are. right or how dope that person is they've. just never been beneficial for me so I. always choose to kind of just kind of. bow out those questions and and. conversations have you ever considered. getting into acting I've done a little. bit of stuff here and there kind of. dable um we have a show right now on on. on on BET plus called Kingdom Business. and I'm I'm an executive producer along. with Devon Frank and the holid Davis. Carter and I've got a little role I. doing there and I exec produced a couple.

of Christmas movies for Hallmark and. I'll jump in so yeah you know I've had a. just to do some fun stuff here and there. is that something that you would like to. take on full time or you too busy with. your your your other career in the music. I love dabbling and all of it you know. there there's a couple of properties. that we're working on right now couple. little IPS that that we out shooting and. pushing around right now you know uh. we've been trying to see about doing a. reboot of of um you remember the show. youed come on NBC called a man with um.

Sherman himley yes yes yes absolutely. yeah yeah yeah because you know like the. FR Prince did the reboot yes yeah and so. we've been uh just kind of talking about. maybe seeing um seeing that space so we. we just always trying to figure out. different things to just keep having. conversations that lift people up right. you did a gospel comedy tour with Steve. Harvey what was that like it was really. dope I did the music stepen our really. really good friends stepen our great. great man yo he yo man he a real. yeah yeah Steve a real one so would you. consider Steve a mentor of yours yes he.

is no doubt Steve is a mentor and a hero. he is no doubt what did Steve teach you. about. you cuz Steve is a guy he don't he hey. he don't care you talk about him be like. he's like if you ain't got my number you. talking about me don't do nothing don't. do nothing to me or for me what's. amazing is I would say to you Steve. would probably say more about what I've. taught him wow was been amazing it's. because Steve um Steve continues to say. that when he was going through his. transition trying to find faith and.

trying to find moments in his life he. said I said to him almost 20 years ago. as I said to him Steve the only. difference between you and my world is. that in my world we wear a mask that's. the only thing is we wear a mask and. then after Sunday we take the mask off. wow that's the only difference. right so when you go on tour so what's a. a tour. like you know it's it it's not like what. you would think of other tours you know. what I'm saying you know we there there.

are no girls in the. lobbies none okay sister Johnson them. not in the lob ain't no aunties. nothing with. tambourines with with them stockings the. got the got got the little n got the. little nut remember them boys I do. nothing sexy about them boys now there's. no aunties in the lobby no man you know. and and you know the the kind of Tours.

that I love to curate is we try to. create like Rockstar tours like people. come it's you know it's lights and it's. screens and it's boom boom boom boom. boom and then we and then we gonna give. it at Jesus so you know we we try to be. wild and bananas in the production and. presentation and so you know it is like. it is in any situation you know we are. we're hitting the stage we're hitting. the streets production crew tours meet. and greets and you know but but but we. are seeing people man that just want to. be reminded that in these crazy times.

man that God got them and he love them. that's all we trying to do sh like like. like like like my whole mission in life. I just want to remind you God love you. and he got you right that's it that's it. that's it once you get closer to God the. stuff about your life that needs to. change I trust God with you you his and. I trust God to deconstruct and tear down. the things in you that he needs to make. a better you that ain't my job to relase. your process. right I like.

that what did I what I what did I just. say that's not my job to police your. process I'm going just let that you let. that Marin there for a minute boy you're. not black folk do when say something got. a little something on it's like just let. that thing that's sit with. that where did you learn your St I I saw. that you went to the uh uh you pulled. the ush on what I do you went you know. what you did I went naughty with in the. audience and what I do I mean you have a.

stage presence I mean in the church you. can't really have was I doing something. nasty I you say nasty it was borderline. nasty close what was I doing like J. Raiden that was me yeah that was me yeah. that was me well you I mean and I'm and. you know and I don't be trying to man. I'm just D but you know what though for. a lot of people that may criticize of. stuff I do. they need to go to church in Africa they. need to go to church in Brazil right I.

mean we are a we are people that move. right brother I've been to some Churches. in Africa that baby them sisters move. they moving huh baby first time I went. to Brazil and I took my band with me. because Brazil. has come Carnival and they have very. nice very nice looking sisters yeah okay. nice Sisters in Christ oh okay. really well they have beautiful women. mhm yeah they do now the Brazilians yes.

sir so they come to church and they. worshiping God but they I you know I'm. looking for a nice goding woman do you I. got quite a few I can introduce in. Brazil right in. America I'm looking to get out the. country is that holiday time of year. again looking for something different. for your favorite sports person on your. list this thank game time tickets for. sports concert and comedy shows all make.

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him no what yeah you gonna be able to. make money as a as as a child M and she. turned it down she turned it down she. turned it down probably the best thing. for me I me you know getting getting. introduced that young and not having. context and covering yeah it it it. probably would have been CH you think. the contract was bad or she just didn't. think you was ready for that at that age. that I just would ready for it at that. age yeah I don't even think that the. contract even got to the deal part right.

it was just like no yeah especially once. again anything outside of a church. mindset was. considered of the table worldly yeah so. let me ask you this have you signed bad. contracts because as as a seven-year-old. you had someone a representative an. adult now you go into it and you're your. own you're your kind of your own boss. and how does Kurt like differentiate. between a good deal and a bad deal what. has to be for it to be a good deal what. needs to.

be let me jump in you a got to finish my. very first recording contract at 23. years old the label I signed with they. took 100% of my publishing huh 100% of. my publishing how you let that happen. because I didn't really know any better. the people that had represented me. didn't know it was new for everyone I. didn't know what an entertainment. attorney was the attorney that I had was. probably like a real estate attorney.

didn't really know who to reach out to. this is 1993 right I'm living in Texas. it's not it's not an entertainment space. I didn't you know and then gospel music. has never been privy to a lot of agents. and attorneys and representatives and. managers that's not the ecosystem that. gospel music has always. metricated and so we didn't have a lot. of Professionals in our space to be able. to try to gather information and and. they they took 100% of my so you got got. I got got early on early on I'm old.

enough now where a lot of the uh the the. copyright laws they now revert back to. me right and and then so so that that's. a blessing because after 30 35 years. there's this reversion process and so. but yeah but no most of most of my deals. early on were all bad deals I just. wanted to do music right and it and and. it came back to might me early on you. were signed to Interscope in scope one. of this major subsidiaries up underneath.

it was death row which was mainly. hip-hop yeah yeah yeah I mean beautiful. that was beautiful beautiful Dr Dre and. Jimmy aen coming to see me at concert at. Six Flags um a Magic Mountain out here. yeah you know just beautiful man to be. around so much talent to have J aine say. hey I'm going to send a plane for you to. go to um to Dublin so we can record Bono. and you know and and to work with all. these different people it was it was. great Jim Ain I owe a lot to him in my.

career because he's one of the greatest. and and and he really really really took. a a a liking to what I was doing and. really gave me opportunities that. couldn't have come with with without my. relationship with him God using my. relationship with him what made you. start your own record label it's because. I saw young Talent around me I I I I I. wanted to to curate uh younger talent. that could continue the message and the.

conversation I probably would never do a. label again until I probably retire is. because it's very hard to separate. yourself as an artist and as an owner of. a label because everyone you. sign understandably they think that the. access you have should be the access. that they have right and so it probably. won't be until I fully retire that I'll. probably do another label again well how. different is the industry in gospel. today than it was when you started in.

the '90s. it's in a rough place it's in a very. rough place because um art is going to. always reflect where life is I think. that the decline of organized religion. in in in America um the the rise of. secularism and the and and the. deconstruction of conversations of faith. and spirituality uh have all added to uh. um the the the decline of people's. engagement and people's interest in the.

music people don't go to church like. they used to people don't you get online. you go online yeah yeah and then even. then when you go online it's like it's. it's it's almost like room noise yes cuz. you doing other things you doing other. things you cooking cleaning and you. Church hopping you know what I'm say he. ain't saying something you enjoying you. you put another church in so it's like. now it's like a church Buffet right and. so if people are going to be engaging. with with God in that in that space then. I could be going listening to the music. and then if they do listen to the music.

they going to listen to something from. way back songs from back in the 90s or. the 80s early 2000s they not going to go. discover the new artist and so it's it's. something that um is is a great concern. for me and then also the greatest. concern I'm going tell you the greatest. concern King the greatest concern is. that you've got a generation of younger. gospel artists that saw how the church. killed and cruci ified and judged a lot. of the older people or artists that were. before them and their mindset is I'm not.

going to do gospel music because y'all. eat your own right so judgmental so. critical so mean that why would I give. myself to something that's so that's. that's that's that that's that's so. toxic right and so you have a whole. another generation of young Christians. that are not like I ain't doing that I'm. gonna go over here and do this other. kind of music and still love God Deuces. and so we we we we are we we are really. trying to rewrite the conversations as. best as we can to make people feel. comfortable that this is a place for.

broken people and it's not a place for. Jesus. Juniors the radio era kind of like what. you come in came into versus the. streaming area era yeah is kind of where. we're heading oh yeah if we're not. already there we're there what what's. your take on that we're there is I think. that for this genre music it can be also. very difficult because as the audience. uh ages out and the younger audience is. not really listening to music about. gospel music and about God and Faith. like they used to then if the only way.

that people can get the content is just. through streaming then we're having a. harder time getting the conversation. about that this is available that's is. because where where is a sh think about. it think about it man a song as big as. Take me to the king and somebody like. you a black man a successful black man. that was raised in church you never. heard the song so that means for me. there's so much work to be done because.

I'm sitting again with an NFL legend who. just off the top of his Dome is not. privy to Fred Hammond music johnp King. music so those things for me it's like. there's so much work to do but I want to. do it I want to do the work right I'm. committed because I I am the biggest fan. of gospel music. right how does Kirk Franklin becomes a. become a choir director at 11 making 25. bucks don't make no sense I shouldn't.

have been doing it don't make no sense. they shouldn't have had me let you laid. that quiet L I don't know and and they. was say stupid of them to do that stupid. of them do that I was 11 years old but I. but but I had $25 a week bro do you know. the lemon hairs and Chico stick get with. 20 with $25 a week how receptive were. the adults because you're a kid I'm a. kid and you're leading adults I'm I'm. leading adults but but one thing. remember we talked about as a little boy. I would do anything to be liked right so.

my personality whatever charismo you. want to call it whatever my little. energy they just thought I was a cute. little thing and so and then also. whatever I was teaching it was correct. right you know if I was teaching a. soprano part it was correct my voice may. have been high you know what I'm saying. and you may not been able to see me you. know what I'm saying but I'm doing it. the right way right and so I got the job. and and I stayed at that church from age. 12 to age.

17 so are you like a cult or a general. manager because you as a choir director. you got to look okay we got to make sure. this the The Sopranos alos and bases and. the barones how did how did I mean as a. child how do you like navigate that. without stepping like you a kid you. don't know but the thing was I didn't. know did they know you know did they. know that you knew because sometimes. it's hard receiving information from.

someone that's younger than you and that. context they knew that I knew better. than them okay and I knew more than they. did okay because no one else could come. and remove me from that seat and do the. job better at that time so they had to. acquas too with the little 25y old bad. jerro curl you know little boy was. teaching them it's because you can argue. that the part was right so what was the. audition process like for to become a. member of your choir oh my choir yeah.

you know I never did auditions for. people that sang with me is that it was. always just relationships I if I if I. met somebody and we connected and it. just felt right and their their their. voice was warm enough to be able to have. the conversation and they felt connected. to the music I was doing I've been. blessed to work with some of the. greatest singers in the world and was. never through auditions we it was it's. always been through relationship because. you are who you are have you had to deal. with any jealousy within your own group.

because you are the face no matter how. great they sing or how great they sound. you're. you it's I think that I'm always trying. to put myself in a. position that I want people to feel like. that we're in this together I'm always. trying to be intentional just about the. village and so um you know I'm and and. I'm quite sure that there may been times. that I've also done that really piss. people off around me too so you know it. I have to take responsibilities for.

times that maybe I did get caught up or. that I did start smelling myself you. know I mean when you're young and. getting a lot of attention you don't. always know how to handle how do you. pull back because like you said you did. have so much Commercial Success you are. who you are everybody knows you you're. universally regarded as one of the the. greatest gospel singers of your or. directors and singers of your era so how. do you pull that back how do you like. Yeah I'm I'm uh yeah I'm I'm I'm feeling. myself yeah I'm doing too much over here. you know man is I really as imperfect as.

I am Shannon as as as flored as I am. Shannon at the end of the day my love my. my mad love and it maybe it came because. I didn't have a daddy because I didn't. have a mama because I didn't have no. family as a little boy my relationship. with with with the Lord was a real thing. for me as a little boy right I was walk. I was climbing on to of the roof having. conversations with God as a little 56y. old boy I was writing love songs to him.

as a 56y old boy and so that was really. instilled in me early on so wanting to. make him happy wanting to make him proud. of me and and and wanted to try my best. to live in ways to please him so when I. do smell myself or when I do get a. little caught up I know that that can be. disappointing right in my relationship. with me and him so I'm always wanted to. check it I'm always wanted to. acknowledge it is because how he feels. about me and how he sees me it's like.

everything in me right let's talk about. where you're from you're from Fort Worth. Texas. 76104 I read an article that say. 76104 has the lowest life expectancy of. any zip code in Texas wow wow so I want. to that's why I see I got to. cars and I get to ask the questions no. but in all honesty what was it like for.

you growing up in Fort Worth you know um. there was a liquor store around the. corner you know there there were there. there were there there were prostitutes. at this pool sha R across the street. that we went to go play pool in you know. uh we we we didn't have a lot of adult. supervision in the summertime so it was. a lot of hide and go get it you know. what I'm saying a lot of in just a lot. of inappropriate ways of trying to learn. love mhm you know what I mean because. you didn't get it the right way so there. were a lot of bears and then there was.

church so you got this SM you got the. smorgus board of experiences that are. now collash and so uh it could be very. difficult you know and then you know. when you're raised in these marginalized. communities a lot of single home. families the the mama not happy that. she's single and working two jobs so she. mad and mean so you know you also raise. around a lot of mean and mad parents you. know did the adults always seem don't. you remember that when you were young. everybody seemed mean and mad right.

everybody was mean and mad so you. developed that in that energy so you. never feel like that you're War you Al. feel like you're in the way. right help me out with this you were. adopted was it your biological aunt or. was it a family friend that you referred. to as your aunt at the age of four um. she. was it's I don't believe she was. biologically related to me uh uh but. that's what people because other people. call her aunt Gertie yes that it just.

became natural for people to think she. was my aunt but she legally she was a. lady that legally adopted me she took me. in because she knew of my biological. mother right legally changed my name I. was born Kirk matis and she changed my. name to Kirk Franklin when I was four. right and and and and she was a widow do. you remember this transition in your. life no it's I don't there's never a. time in life that I didn't know that I. was ad that I wasn't adopted I've always. known that I was adopted so when I came.

on the planet and ever had any level of. Consciousness I knew from that day that. I was always adopted did you know your. biological mom and that's and and and I. think that's the trauma the trauma is in. most environments when kids are adopted. they're in these systems right so they. don't know who their biological parents. are they know that they are given away. which is already a womb but then another. family takes them in so at least the. womb gets a. yeah but in these marginalized. communities it ain't for your biological. mama ain't something to come through.

with new boyfriend you know to pull up. maybe three or four times a year so. every time they come and leave it's. ripping that off so you never get a. chance to heal so you're always living. with these open. wounds so you know you knew who your mom. was oh God yes so when she would come. around was there any kind of interaction. with you did you like mom you know did. she take you to did you try to get your. mom to take you to the store buy candy. by cookies by pop or was there any.

interaction with her and you you know. there were moments where maybe you know. I she would tell me to go get a. hamburger or maybe there were moments. you know that that that that that she. she would bring a soda around the house. or whatever but for the most part she. would she would make she would make. promises and would keep them is is. because I got a half sister she had a. daughter and so sometimes she wasn't. raised with me but when she was there. were times that we would wait for her to. come pick us up and she didn't she make. promises take us to the fair you know.

and so I remember you know living with a. lot of broken. promises how did how did I'm just help. me understand maybe you don't even know. the answer to this how did the woman. Aunt Gertie that ended up adopting you. how did this come to be did you were her. and your mom friends or how did that how. did that how did that happen um my. mother was the niece. my mother was the daughter of somebody. that she knew I don't I don't know if.

they related or not but my my mother's. mother died and when my mother's mother. died Aunt Gertie kind of played a bigger. role in this in uh in Deborah's life. Deborah is my biological mother right. and so when Deborah got pregnant with me. she no longer she didn't want to be a. mother she was 15 something like that. she didn't want she didn't want to raise. a child and so she gave she allowed. Gertrude to adopt me right and so that's. how they knew each other they they knew. each other through somebody that was. related to somebody wow yeah and so.

that's that that's how I got to iner it. have you ever been able to heal have you. gotten therapy. for that trauma because you know that. Aunt Gertie is not your biological mom. you see your biological mom from time to. time yeah and the connection is not. there Aunt Gertie gave you something. your biological mother either couldn't. or wouldn't give you at the time which. is love yeah now love in our community.

back there meant something different it. wasn't hugging and kissing you got a. roof over your head you got clothes you. got food that's love that's love but she. aunt gery gave you something that your. biological mom either couldn't or didn't. yeah have you how have that shaped you. into the person the man that you are. today well I don't know if you're aware. of this recent situation of me finding. the same thing about my father this year. I was going to go there um I hadn't.

talked to my mother in over 23 years. before the situation your biological. mother mhm yeah geru died 33 years ago. okay so gerud died when I was 20 okay. yeah I found gerud in her bed sleep oh I. found gerud well the the the the the the. fireman found her in her bed at night. sleep and she sh sh. transition yeah yeah and so Deborah and.

I had not had a relationship because. what started to happen with Deborah and. even the man all my life I thought was. my father and because I met him when I. was six and see him again till I was 13. and then him again until my career took. off and then Deborah and Dwight the man. who I thought was my biological father. they started showing up at concerts and. that pissed me off right it really. angered me and so I nothing to do with. me when I didn't have now I have you. want everything to do with me back then. you didn't want me you know what I'm.

saying Mike who is it m Mike Jones yeah. Mike who you didn't know me who who yeah. so you know it it it was very painful. for me okay and so up up up. until this year I had talked to Deborah. in over I haven't seen talked to Deborah. in over 23. years so how did the conversation come. to be that the white wasn't your. biological. father at a funeral this year that was.

that was had at a. church there's a young lady that sings. in my group whose daddy was a pastor. that church okay the funeral was for a. lady who is my aunt she's the sister of. Deborah okay I didn't go to the funeral. because I knew Deborah would be there so. I didn't go okay at the funeral and I'm. telling you everything I was told at the. funeral there was a guy there who was. close friends to the pastor M that guy's. name is Rick Rick went to the funeral.

because the lady that died was a member. of that church correct when Deborah my. biological mother was at the funeral as. well it was said that Rick said to the. pastor oh I didn't know that Deborah and. the young lady that died that they were. sisters and then he goes on to say I. used to mess around with Deborah when I. was a. kid he said that in the church he said. it oh they talk whoa whoa you ain't been. to black church in the while you yeah. but they they they don't normally share.

secrets like that yeah yeah yeah yeah. you need to start coming on back to to. Black no I better not go back there they. might share. some going. [Laughter]. up so so yes he said that at this uh. funeral and so when he said that um do. you do you. no you're good bro um and at that. funeral when he said that everybody. looks at him and says you know that's.

Kurt Franklin's biological mother and. he's like oh no and they were like do. you know Kurt Franklin he's like yeah. I've heard the name I've heard the name. and so now they're looking at him his. height his ears his hands eat his be a. little bit more right. there yeah yeah yeah so and so he he now. is being observed by everybody uhoh and. so now the rumor mill starts to happen.

and so it gets to Deborah's attention. that this church and this community is. not talking Deborah finds my number I. have a Google number and Deborah finds. that Google number from somebody leaves. a message I hadn't heard a voice in 23. years traumatized but I Heard a Voice. she said hey this is Deborah uh I want. you to know that I hear about the rumor. that's being spread around. Rick is not your father you know who. your father was he died and and and and.

I'm not going to let that be a lie that. they tell you Mr Rick because of the. commotion on his own he gets swabbed and. gives the swabs to my friend the sing. with me say hey everybody's running. their mouth I don't know I do know that. I did date. her uh I do know y'all are looking me. crazy right now here here give this to. Kirk if Kirk got any questions he can go. get these tested you if he has questions. well of course I can sit on that yeah.

yeah see I know I know you he knew you. he. knew cuz he probably inquisitive himself. knowing. that you going to be inquis you got to. do it you just got to don't you you. couldn't you couldn't sleep at night not. knowing yeah so as I got swabbed yeah. and he's your dad he's my father shook. my world it is it has shaken my world. even now I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm still.

shooketh I'm still in the middle of the. uh the the the impact of that. car but and Deborah still denies. it and we took another DNA test for her. and she still denies it to this very day. I have not talked to her. since it's funny though to this day you. still refer to her as Deborah not. Mom you refer to Rick as Rick Mr Rick I.

call Mr Rick it's because he's a good. guy right he didn't know right so it's. not on him right but what people need to. understand is because you know one thing. that has been very hard for me and I'll. be honest with you Mr Shannon it is very. hard for me when when people come up and. go oh this is so beautiful this is a. beautiful thing you are united with your. father's beautiful I need for people to. understand I'm 53 years old I wasn't. looking for a daddy right he wasn't. looking for a son right do you know how.

much deconstructing it takes to live. your whole life knowing who you believe. your daddy to be and you hated him and. so now that you get this information you. just go oh well let me turn that off hi. Dad it's like just because you're. introduced to love doesn't mean that you. know how to receive it right especially. when you have lived a life and people. don't even understand also the power a. mother mother has over a child the fact. that my mama ain't been in my life but. still denying me that truth that impacts.

the way that I can Embrace and still. even move through this process do you. think she knew that Mr Rick was your. father instead of Dwight I'm going tell. you something I'm Gonna Keep it a buck. with you King you know if if if if we're. not going to even start the cap I was. looking at everybody crazy because it's. a small. community ain't nobody no. ain't nobody know and and the man that I. thought was my father his family no Mr.

Rick but just because they know of K. that don't mean that they knew that Mr. Rick had some type of relationship that. exactly is true that exactly is true I'm. saying though when you grow up in these. spaces of not knowing what's what you. start to look at everybody like CRA. because the bottom line is the baby got. dropped yeah the got Dr so in other. words you're like I'm 53 years of age I. wasn't looking for a father he wasn't.

looking for a son because when I was. looking for a father he wasn't looking. for a son yes and so now it is too it's. it's not that it's too late I am just. having to deconstruct everything and how. do you undo 50 plus years though Kurt. say what how do you undo 53 plus years. it's hell it's hell it's hell my my. therapist bill is out the yeah let me. tell you something let me tell you. something I could probably buy a whole a. whole new children's wardrobe for for.

for what's happening with my therapy. bill but but but but I do want to say. though Mr Rick is a good guy he's a good. dude he's a good do and and and and and. what I love the most about him he keeps. saying go at your pace he said it's all. about you and I'm in therapy and I'm I'm. walking it out and I'm I'm trying to. process it and you know I be with you it. breaks my heart that my mama still ain't. called me through this it breaks my.

heart bro documentaries come out I I. ain't even heard from my mama you know. and it's it's amazing the impact Mama's. have on that's the heel that's the wound. that has to heal yeah not Mr Rick yeah. not Mr Dwight that's pass that's the. wound yeah that the sa needs to be. spread on so it can heal yeah have you. thought about having a conversation have. you thought about having therapy with. your mom because I think you guys there. there are some things that you need to.

hear from her there's some things she. needs to hear from you but it needs to. be in a control. setting maybe someday I don't know I. don't I don't know and I'm okay to say I. don't know I'm okay to say that I don't. have the answers I don't know have you. thought about opening into the door. first because I think deep down CT I. think you ask you're wanting her to take. that step because she was the adult she.

did what she did she gave you way. because at a young age she you say she. was about 15 that's a that's asking an. awful lot for a 15y old to take the. responsibility because a 15-year-old can. barely take care of themselves let alone. another body yeah yeah I think Kurt you. would get so much more if you took that. first step if you opened that door. you know there's there's there's there's. a great fear too of opening up that door.

because you don't know the unknown the. unknown we fear we don't know and and. and and and the fact that there were two. tests that she denies Kurt you have to. understand when someone is told a lie. for so long yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah she. told you this lie for 50 plus years you. think that after fair fair you fair I. mean people will tell you a lie tomorrow. and just and they'll keep telling that. lie because they believe repetition of a. lie make it the truth fair fair fair so.

when you're are there at any point when. you're alone and you're sitting at. home they like you know what I need to. do this it's because it's not for her at. this point in time nothing you do is for. her it's for you is I think that when. I'm alone right now what I sit with it's. because the truth is this happened while. I was working on the album yes and then. the album came out and then the tour so. I've been blessed to be busy right and.

so now that the tour just ended last. week I'm having to sit in a little bit. more than I've had to so when I'm. sitting now by myself I think it's also. more. of ain't this some yeah you know it's I. can't believe this has really happened. it's I think the reality of what has. happened is hitting me more now MH than. ever before because I was L to stay busy. because if I wasn't busy I probably. would have lost it yeah you know what I. mean I probably would have lost it do.

you believe that she started to come. back around along with the person you. believe to be your biological father. they wanted something they found out. what you had become who you had become. back years ago yes when de that that's. how it made me feel is because she was. not in my life right even and and even. when I was homeless sleeping in my car. and and didn't have food as a young 19. 20 old man nobody was around nobody was.

looking out for me right nobody checked. on me so when did she know where you. were at that age it's Fort Worth Texas. I'm not hard to find and I was living in. the house that geru died in okay so I'm. I'm I'm where everybody know I'm at you. know I'm playing at the same churches so. I'm not hard to find but you know what. though and at the same time I do want to. say this man this is not about bashing a. black woman I don't want it to even come. across like I'm on your show and there's.

a Vengeance that I have for what my. mother did we don't know what she went. through right we don't know the Pains of. life that she had we don't even know. maybe what all the things she suppressed. I don't know right all I know is that. for me in my life it's been turned. upside down it's. been like I give you something that I. even start to struggle with too man like. can I keep it keep it. above I I've even had my struggles with. God I've had my private struggles with.

God because I I am a Christian that. believes in the sovereignty of God means. that I believe that everything God. allows or God creates that nothing. passes to us that doesn't go through. God's hands first that God can either. stop things or God allows things for a. greater reason I humbly believe in that. that's my humble biblical view of the. sovereignty God so God and His Sovereign. plan allowed me to be raised without my. daddy and my daddy lived 10 minutes from.

me the majority of my life not having a. daddy we know what the stats say the. stats would say a young child raised. with his father and mother has a better. chance of survival we all know the stats. right so not having a child and not. having a father I got into a lot of. trouble learned a lot of uh. inappropriate ways of survival with. women and sex sexuality and and. different things and made a lot of. mistakes you know to develop a lot of. bad habits now mind you Mr Rick was a. kid himself right he was a kid himself.

but I didn't have a dad God in a. sovereign plan allowed that to stay away. in that I developed some bad ways. without having a male fig in my life a. mother fig male fig in my life and some. of those ways when I became a Christian. now God now God calls those things sin. mhm but in his plan he kept some things. away that could have helped some things. not turn into these bad sins that I.

struggle with does that make sense yes. so now now there things in me that God. don't like but also the things that he. allowed he so I've had my own private. and this is the first time I've ever. said this I've never said this before. and God me and God have had strong and. somebody would say well you don't know. what kind of man miss Mr Rick was you. know he could have been a band fluence. you don't know what kind of Mr could. have been if he had a respons if he. would have had responsibility of having. a son because me you as men know them.

kids grow you up and there certain. things that you got to now yeah you know. yeah we don't know and I'm not saying. that I know I'm just being transparent. to say I've privately struggled I've had. my War like I'm quite sure everybody. listening to me if you've never had. anything you were like God why you take. my mama God why you do this if you've. never had a war with God you ain't never. had no relationship with God right cuz. if you got a relationship with God. you've had some Wars with it of course. there' have been questions yes. sir do man that's to.

know that that that private struggle but. at the time as you were growing up you. for this transition and so now you're 10. now you're 15 you're. 20 did any of that was that going. through your mind at the time that my. dad's not here my mom whatever reason. she was but I do have Miss G. our Gertrude that's doing the best that. she can she was 64 year old she was a. widow and and and by the time I'm 13.

she's. 73 she is a 73 year old woman by the. time I'm 13 years old a 13y old she. can't do nothing she can't she can't do. nothing with me right she sleep at 6:30. you out the house listen Sleep listen. right after Price is. Right you remember Price is Right I do. yes sir I do. but so let me ask you this you're a very. public man and even as a public figure. myself I try to live a private life and.

a lot of times things that we go through. via family gets played out in public. yeah we see TI and his son have a little. situation and seemingly they worked it. out uh I think a couple years ago you. had had an issue with your son. yes does it make you wish sometime that. damn man I wish I was I wish I was a. private citizen all day every day all. day every day it's even changed how I. even post on social media like I used to. post my family a lot but over the last.

year or so I've even kind of struggle. with that more you know and it's been. hard because you know um I could see how. people would attack my kids you know uh. they they they would say cruel things or. or even also living up to the. expectation like one thing that I. started to hate if I can be if I give a. bu is I hate this whole couple. goals when people see you what with your. spouse whatever and and become gos it's. like I'm not a. couple everybody's goal should be we. should be trying to be like him instead.

trying to be like each other because we. going to let you down KK going to let. you down I'm trying to point you to and. then also how can I be a couple go for. you when all you are seeing is the post. right you're not seeing the life you. judging what you want on the post people. seem to think public means perfect yeah. yes yes and that's what social media has. has warped a lot of people's mind. because they see people getting on the.

private jet even though they just they. might have rented that they might have. rented that just for that shot just for. that shot or they rented the cars yes. and so now they they Associated public. with perfect well Kurt's married he you. don't know the. private kurk and his wife goes through. in order to just get to the next day or. or or even the hell that KK takes his. wife through correct you know what I'm. saying or the hell that KK takes his kid. through because I'm not going to sit up. here and and and ever say to anyone that.

I am this dude that love Jesus that's. got it all together brother I am a. patient in the hospital every day every. day I'm in my Hospital bin trying to see. the doctor and I think historically. Christians have always postured. themselves as we've got the answer like. like like where the doctors like right. brother. Shannon you need prayer and we're here. to help you brother whatever we can do. for you and it's like first of all first. of all why we be whispering when we talk. to people have you you ever know say why.

Christians whisper yeah because you. don't want nobody else to hear. that yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and. that's my point though that's my point. bro you're not no doctor you in a. hospital bed next to me and and I and I. think that that's why so many people. have been turned off so I want people to. know bro I'm in the bed next to you. telling you what the doctor did for me. right and if he did it for me he can do. it for you right as a child going. through what you went through how did.

that impact your learning I had a. learning disorder is I had ADHD but in. the 80s you know you just considered. dumb yeah and I had one of my kids one. of my one of oh you bad they put they. they boy sit your you know all of that. all of that and I was all of that until. I got to music class until I got the. drama class until I got the band class. and I was good right and so it wasn't. until to one of my kids got diagnosed. and when you go through that pressure. you're like that's me so um I had a lot. of learning disorders and but but but.

what's been amazing is is that I've been. able to live vicariously uh through a. lot of is I surrounded myself with very. strong academically committed people um. and and and and their level of. scholarship I was able to live. vicariously through their hard work and. so I became a student of everything Rel. religion politics science uh um just. like World issues and so I became very. very intentional about being around.

people that were much much much better. than me did you have friends in high. school did you have a lot of friends I. didn't have a lot of friends in high. school I had a lot of girls that I were. friends with yeah yeah I was a lot you. know a lot of girls but but but again. through therapy I've learned that was a. lot of my mama issues a lot of you want. you wanted comfort you wanted from a. female yeah buddy yeah buddy yes yes and. the more the better I work yeah. unfortunately unfortunately I work.

better with females I love to this day. to this day I love female leadership I. love female leaders um I'm just there's. something very comforting about the the. ideation the execution of how women. maneuver in business and in spaces is. because I think that there's a level of. inent it that they bring to the equation. and and and and and and I just believe. them to be more pragmatic right and so I.

am a fan I'm such a fan of women and. women leadership High School what was. high school like would you good. student. girls well that's I mean I mean I don't. know if anybody go to school for girls I. mean they they you did I what would the. grades like my grades are bad except for. music drama and band i f failed my. freshman year I failed my freshman year. I went to summer school that summer and. found out how many girls were at summer.

school man there you go Kurt man and I. fa summer school I fa summer school got. some girls how hold on you fa your. freshman year and then fell summer. school because. girls girls oh I was girl crazy girls. okay so and I would fall in love quick. oh I fall in love so quick so you call. that love heat well it was it was it was. it was it was a. blend but I was the kind of guy that.

love the idea of love oh well I'm going. blend some of this some of this water. with some of the this St you what does. that do what does that do the water the. KC it opens it up oh does it yeah yeah. now now now now is knac what you use in. hot titis yeah okay as I've had a good. gertude could make a hot. yeah get right too boy whatever cold. whatever situation you had boy boy you. wake up a new little boy would it seem.

like me heing more like hot. Tanya. just shout out to Tanya Hall she was my. second great Crush Tanya Hall was my. second great. Crush shout out to Tiny Hall man. all I'm you said you a friend died that. kind of changed your life shifted the. trajectory of my entire life is that. when you became this version of what we.

see today the path becoming what we see. to it's because he was the good guy I. was the bad guy I was the guy smoking. drinking whing out having premarital sex. he was the church guy he was he was good. he was a good guy could sing was at. church every day he was dig he was he. was digging in his closet on a Monday. morning after a Church concert that his. church did cuz he wanted to record the. concert on a blank VHS digging in the. closet a gun fell out of the top of the. closet fell on the ground shot and.

killed him wow summer of 1985 Eric. pounds changed my life that summer I got. on my knees and asked Jesus to come into. my heart and I knew something to change. I'm not perfect hadn't been perfect but. I knew something in me shifted right. yeah you were a young father you got a. young lady pregnant at the age of 17. yeah yeah how did that change your life. very embarrassing I was very very. embarrassing because again raised in. church I was embarrassed for the shame I. brought upon her life um I was shamed.

because I was always reminded of my. wrong because then you know these these. these these things you can hide because. the church was such a a a framework of. the community correct so whatever. happened in the church everybody knew. knew yeah and so it was it was it was it. was very difficult um Gert kicked me out. I had to go sleep on some couches cuz. gert's old school Mar that you're not. going Mar that girl you got to get out. of here because you grown now you. couldn't shack up so and you couldn't. shack up so I was living in my car.

sleeping on people's couches you know. just living everywhere right you know I. had a trash bag full of clothes that I. would keep in the back of the church so. I would go to church on Sunday mornings. wash up in the a men's restroom and put. on something from that bag to play. because that was my job I played at. church and then I put my clothes back in. that trash bag did your son live with. you or did he live with his mom uh he. lived with me some he lived with her uh. he lived with his grandparents sometime. cuz she lived with her parents for a. minute but um there was never a time.

that I wasn't in his life I was. constantly in his life I was there I. didn't is I didn't have nothing but I. was. there was it because you wanted to be. what you never had in a father that's it. that is it that is it no doubt and then. he was cute he was just cute as hell he. was a beautiful little baby and it was. funny and so you know I I just never. want him to feel what I felt never want. him to experience that I mean you hey. you are like 34 you got a 17 year old.

yeah he's like and people like hey hey. Kurt that's your little that's your. that's your brother like no that's my. son and and I'm tell he was the homie. I'll never forget when my first album. came out I was 25 years old and I was uh. no no no I was 23 but around about 25 I. was in an event signing autographs look. down he's signing girls. autographs that's the homie that's the. homie and he's so smart man car on is. brilliant right K on is brilliant and I. love him I I deeply love.

him we talked about the social. media how different do you think your. life or our lives would be as a whole if. there was no social. media is I think that it's the dichotomy. of social media is is I think that it's. the yin and the Yang because it has done. also a lot of good it has brought a. level of connectivity but at the same. time the the the exposure to judging and.

the opinions that are freely freely. given by those that don't have any uh uh. knowledge at times of of of the the. level of commentary that they try to. that they try to commit to or to. contribute to uh has also made it very. problema individual there a lot of. shaming um that that happens on on on. different platforms and so it's I think. that it's almost it's almost if I can be. honest I think that even the.

conversation is sometimes a mute. conversation because it ain't going. nowhere right we just have to try to be. intentional about how we monitor our own. souls and our own mental health in these. spaces because the SPAC is just going to. continue to grow and the voices and. opinions of others is just going to. continue to grow as well you know what I. got a couple of questions for you and. you that person to ask what are your. thoughts on 50-50 Rel relationships what. what does that mean 50-50 relationships. you pay half I pay half I'm old school.

see that's me I'm old school I'm G pay. for. everything oh but hold on if you pay for. everything are you expecting old school. values in a new school woman because. that's not how they're wired but they. can be is I think that every. woman would would would be grateful for. a man to step up and take leadership in. the right way the problem is the lack of. love compassion and the lack of still. having a voice in your significant other.

is some things the thing that that we as. men fail at it's because there is this. authoritarian mindset that we also have. that if I'm contributing and leading. everything that I contribute and Lead. everything right but there still should. be an equal voice and an opinion and. view that we must consider that we must. acquest to at times because there's a. wisdom and a knowledge that a woman. woman brings to the table that we. benefit from and so but hey a lot of. that is our own insecurities a lot of. the ways that we were.

raised what's a good place to take. someone on the first date you know we. there's this thing this viral moment. Cheesecake Factory what's a good what's. a good place to go on a first date and. how much should one spend I think the. best place to go on a first date is to. ask her where she want to go oh no. no big and big why because she says I. want to go to this festar restaurant. where you already know if you just. ordered a water it's $50 but what's.

wrong with her saying that what's well. what's wrong with me saying no no so. first of all I'm trying to figure out. what's the problem with that ain't no. problem it ain't no problem with her. asking ain't no problem with me saying. no so now what's the next question where. can we go why are you saying why are you. saying no because because here's the. thing okay give it to me why you saying. no if I start you here where do I go. after here that ain't necessarily true. it is oh it ain't watch it watch it. watch it watch it man man you know what.

I got to give you youngsters game y'all. ain't got no game here it is you can say. there her easily okay baby girl I'm G to. take you to this place you want to but. I'm going to let you know this place is. so mad expensive I'm doing it because I. want to impress you to let you know that. I got you hold let me finish I got you. but I ain't going to be able to do this. all the time and make a joke out of it. make it light keep it cool keep it fun. because see let me tell what let me tell. what wins a woman every time make it a.

laugh make a joke make it make it like. man have you ever seen the ugliest dude. with the prettiest chick because he keep. on laughing women love to. laugh girl I a Tak e that play cuz I. ain't got the. money girl we been going down here this. going down here to chill his Apple bees. or something you. crazy but but that's the thing you know. if that don't mean that that don't mean. that she going to want that every time.

that it don't that we not wired like. that you know once you once you get to. once you get established at a level now. if you have got a let's just say for the. sake of argument in 1993 your first car. is a Rolls Roy uhhuh you not going back. down you not lowering that going down. from that you moving up but but what I'm. saying first of all I'm not Stephen A. and so I'm I'm I'm I'm going to give you. so much I'm saying to you. that now now you that now you on the.

couch I'm I'm saying to you that there. is a way for there to be both both. things can happen at the same time that. it don't have to be black and white this. way black and white that way that and. then first of all let me also say this. let me also say this is I think that if. you are taking a girl out and a girl is. going out with a guy that there's not. even a relationship to be able to laugh. and play with it even in the process. y'all ain't the ones for each other. anyway because the best relationship. that's going to make it are the ones. that are friends oh okay so what's the.

first question so what's the first. question I should ask on a date. then do you want to be the homie you. want to have fun you want somebody. that's got your back laugh have a good. time what you want to do let's let's. let's walk in the park and start asking. but the problem is is man we're so. enamored by the physical nature of a. woman that we don't even start asking. nothing else we just look looking at the. booty we looking at the breast we. looking at her neck we looking at her. feet we looking at her I ain't looking. at no feet now ain't nobody looking at. no feet you a looking at feet it's I'm.

looking at. feet I'm looking at feet so let me ask. you a question because here's the old. the uh a question dating to get married. so do we go do you go on a date to get. married or you what what are you because. I I I yeah I don't believe in that as. much as I know that a lot of Christians. push that narrative is I don't see. see I don't believe that marriage has to. be the sum total of a person's existence. I don't believe that that's the that. seems to be the overwhelming thing now.

and I think it's unfortunate it's. because first of all about sheer numbers. there's going to be many many beautiful. women that will never get married just. on the sheer numbers there's more women. than men so if we make humans feel like. that that that that your sum total of. purpose and existence is in the space of. a marriage then we fail all of the. beautiful for people that that that that. that will be single that are single that. God can't use them that there's no. purpose for their life and that there's. no plan and that they can't live fulfill.

lives so you can be able to date and. still put parameters on if you want to. be active or not how much you want to. give of yourself so you can be able to. still enjoy beautiful relationships and. it doesn't mean that you got to be. walking out of your mind marriage. marriage marriage is because not getting. married is not a sin oh okay it ain't a. sin right and so we got to stop making. everything black and white marriage is. not on the same level as salvation it. ain't and so you got to be able to have. friends with people and you can be able.

to establish the boundaries of what the. Friendship needs to look like how far it. needs to go before it crosses over and. and if something beautiful turns out of. that that turns into a marriage it's a. beautiful thing right marriage can be a. beautiful thing but it's not the sum. total of a person's existence but let me. ask you a question this open marriage. can a m can a marriage survive. with. openness it's I don't know why a person. would want to be mared then just don't.

be married yeah just don't be married. just just just just be just be other be. something other and you know like like I. said I think that the social constructs. we for it's almost like what it's almost. like our generation uh uh Shan if you. are a 30y old woman even to this now if. if if you a 30-y old woman still single. and you go go to the family Union all. the old ladies are going to pressure you. why girl why you ain't married where. your man where your HB all of these.

social construct that we put the. pressure on people for things that they. may not be ready for and that does not. make them wrong right that just makes. them not you right Steve I had Steve on. the show and he said blending. families are hard M extremely hard now. it might look good on the post C MH and. everybody might paint a Rosy picture but. it's not. easy your situation I think you have a.

stepdaughter no I don't have a. stepdaughter I have a daughter you have. a daughter I have a daughter that's how. you that's she address you as such and. you hell yes that's my daughter wow and. I and I put hands on anybody to say. something that's my daughter I fought. for her that's my daughter she's she leg. no you literally fought you went and you. like hey broide these papers cuz that's. going to be my chob that's what I did. that's what I did I pulled up I pulled. up 26 years old I pulled up that's my. baby that is my baby that is my little.

Sandy head baby she 30 she's 34 years. old now and still my baby still my baby. she has an incredible husband credible. I'm a I'm a I'm a a granddaddy but. that's my baby I legally changed her. name I adopted her that that is my. daughter ain't there there's no step. carry on Tammy's a mama to carry on. Tammy is incredible Mama to carry on oh. man Tammy Man Tammy Tammy Tammy is an.

angel of a mama bro let me tell you. something ain't no better Mama on the. planet Tammy Franklin o o o you. mentioned that you suffered some. addictions from your childhood that you. got love and you look for things at all. the wrong places and it led you down a. path as an adult that you're not proud. you you got therapy for it how difficult. was it for you to come to to share that. H it wasn't difficult for me to to talk.

about you know being promiscuous or. childhood addictions to pornography and. you know growing up as a young man. trying to figure it all out none of that. was hard for me it's not hard for me. it's not hard for me to talk as I heal. is I reveal okay so I'm going to tell. you my junk is because that's what I. think that's what I think the message of. the Gospel is man is I just don't. understand these perfect stained glass. window individuals that live thinking.

like like everybody that God used in the. Bible King David was a polygamist we we. we we hear about him you know sleeping. with basba but before basba David had. many wives yes Abraham Moses you you. Solomon all of these men that struggle. people that were liars and murderers and. killers in the Bible that we now. consider Heroes they are our heroes but. they were flawed people you know what. they are heroes cuz we didn't have to. live with them the people that we live. with we.

kill. wow the black will the black church how. does the black church move forward. because it seems like they wanted to be. 50s 60s Dr King and I don't believe it's. going to be that again I don't believe. it's going to be that again I'm sorry. Kurt yeah is I don't know if the black. Church uh historically will ever be what. the black church was but I do believe. that there's a room and a space for the. church right and I believe that the.

church can still be a beautiful place. for healing for conversations and for. community and I think that it can be a. place to also reaffirm reaffirm and. reinforce truth loving compassion and. truth about uh Jesus being the savior of. the world and and and I and I think that. more than ever before the church also. needs to also acknowledge the mistakes. that it's made from uh slavery from uh. from segregation from Jim Crow uh even. even social injustice uh from from.

misogynistic messages even the lack of. compassion that we uh show people in the. lgbtqi plus Community um that that that. that that there's room at the cross for. everybody and I'm GNA beat everybody. down there cuz I'm the first one to be. in line down there and that's how I live. my life ain't nobody going to beat me. down to the cross cuz I'm the first one. in need of it right but there's room for. everybody down there everybody can come. down there and get that same love what. are your thoughts on mega.

churches some of them become Mega messes. you know but then for some communities. they become Mega Miracles I think that. that after uh covid um we of course have. have seen another paradigm shift is. because um people are not filling up. these churches anymore and I don't know. if that's all a bad thing I think that. this is a reset button for uh species. when it comes to Faith and what the. conversation of Faith looks like moving. forward but I still believe in that. Unapologetic truth right and I think.

that people still want it they they're. tired of the games they're tired of the. gimmicks they're tired of all the. Foolery and I think that we've got to. address those things I do think man I do. think that to be healthy you've got to. acknowledge what you did. wrong you have a new album out Father's. Day is out now debut number one on the. billboard top gospel charts album making. number four your 14th number one. hit what's next for Kurt Franklin I have. no idea I have no idea and I'm cool with.

that like at 55 did you think that you. would have had an explosion that you've. had over the last five years of your. career no like shanon I'm Gonna Keep it. a buck with you because I don't know. Sports I did not know until people told. me because I was telling people what I. was doing today and you know and all the. homies was going crazy everybody Mr Rick. everybody was like whoa you know because. you know you know you're killing it and. I know stepen Smith because you know. he's he's a very kind guy and he's been. on my podcast and we see each other show. much love but you know I didn't know.

your career but over the last couple of. years you all I see now right how has it. been for you seeing this this this. resurrection and explosion for you where. your career has just changed in ways. that you never could have even written. in a book I tell people this um even at. my highest at my greatest NFL moment. it's not even a tenth of what it is. right now wow it's not even close it's.

incomparable and you could have seen. this coming no and a lot of people have. the same you know they ask they like. well how do you know so much about. sports because I've transitioned very. well into this profession people have. don't know or have forgotten that I. played professional sports yeah yeah. yeah yeah yeah and and what do you. accredit it. to hard work because I didn't want. people to just think I was a jock. talking.

Sports I wanted people to think that I. knew what I was talking about with. sports and they know that I put the time. in and the effort and the work I that's. the way my grandparents raised me was. the work no matter what the job or how. much they were paying you because you. could do a job for $5 and he say if you. work hard maybe he have a job for you. for $10 what what was that one thing. that your granddaddy said said to you. back then that even now you're. successful more than you ever dreamed. that you can. remember never mistake habit for hard.

work he said boy doing something over. and over don't mean you're working hard. and I never forgot that and the analogy. that I use for people I say you see. people go to the gym every single day. and the body never change yeah because. they go into the gym out of habit. they're not working hard yeah and so I. never forgot that and so anything that I. approach I'm all in I don't I don't know. how to. multitask I got a job that's the most. important job I can't have five jobs I.

need to have one job that I can kill. that I can that I can knock it out of. the par Curry I'm going to ask you to do. something that I've really never asked. anybody to do um I want you to close. Club sh Shay out today with a prayer wow. I'd be honest is there anything specific. that you've been seeing in the world or. life that you think would be a beautiful. thing to just even to even include in. the. prayer uh like what's been on your heart. lately what's what's what's something.

that you've been burning with something. that you know you know that you care. about or something going on that you. know you know that you think would be. something beautiful for us to you know. to you know kind of call out I've just. been very appreciative and very thankful. um for. the the understanding the vision. the love that I received um you know. obviously we've all everybody that's. going to watch this has had ups and.

downs but I went through some things the. last 6 months and then it like wow and. you just didn't know but I always and my. sister is is very religious and she's. devout she says Shannon God doesn't. close a door without having one open for. you and she told me she said she sent me. this passage and said he said God said. that if you if you stand for me me no. one can stand against you yeah yeah yeah. yeah and if I stand for you yeah yeah. yeah so yeah that's good good let's get.

it. in man father thank you so much for. being so kind to just two young just two. black men that have come from different. places didn't have much and we know it's. because of your goodness it ain't. because of something so great in US it's. just been because of your love and we. want to say thank you we want to say. thank you that the things that could. have killed us you allowed them to make.

us stronger Lord we don't always. understand what you do we know people. that should be sitting here that were. smarter than us more more more talented. than us and Lord we even want to pray. for those people man for them to not. give up on you for them to believe that. there's still a plan for their lives too. if anybody listening who may feel that. you forgot gotten him we know how that. feels and so God I'm asking you that. every son and daughter that's watching.

this right now listening to this right. now that's going through something. painful and. hurtful I pray Lord that they will be. reminded that whether they go to church. or not whether they believe in you or. not that you don't stop believing in. them just because they may not believe. in you I pray that you meet them where. they are that this will be a moment and. their B room and their car and their. chil cell hospital bed wherever that. they will feel your love and that love. will be the door for them to get to know.

you. more I don't have all the answers and I. don't know all that you do but I've seen. you do great things and I believe you. will do continue to do great things like. forgiving me of my mistakes and giving. me a chance after chance even when I. don't deserve it I keep praying for my. brother right now and I keep praying. that you just keep opening up doors let. him be a billboard if it had not been. for your goodness he don't know where. he'd be we pray for this country all the.

people that are going through people. that are facing Hard Times let us know. that joy cometh in the morning in your. name Jesus I pray amen. amen he said if you kneel before me I'll. stand for you and if I stand for you no. one can stand against. all my life grinding all my life. sacrifice hustle P the price want a. slice got the roll of dice that's why.

all my life been grinding all my life. all my life grinding all my life. sacrifice hustle P the price want a. slice got the roll a dice that's why all. my life I've been grinding all my life. [Music].