Joe Budden On Nicki Minaj, Cardi B, Charlamagne tha God, Kai Cenat & Joe Rogan & the Future of Media

I was addicted [music] to percoetses and. oxycottton and was able to get them on. the street level in bulk. >> Damn. >> I didn't leave home with less [music]. than 40 pills on me. >> What? >> I was killing myself slowly but surely. I thank God every day that I experienced. [music] that at the time that I did. because that was before fentanyl. >> What fentanyl is out here doing and. [music] how undetectable it is, the pill. head that I was, I would have killed. myself. I'd have been dead. [music]. Just like that.

>> Grinding all my life. Sacrifice hustle. paid the price. [music]. Got to roll the dice. That's why. All my. life I've been grinding all my life. All. my life been grinding [music] all my. life. Sacrifice. Hustle paid the price. Want a slice. [music] Got to [singing]. roll dice. That's why all my life I've. been grinding all my life. >> Hello. Welcome to another episode of. Club Shay on the road. I am your host. Shannon Sharp, the guy that's stopping.

by for conversation on the drink today. Here's one of the most trusted, influential, leading voices in hip-hop. media with a loyal fan base of million. He's one of the few hip-hop artists to. transition successfully in the digital. media space without compromising his. voice. He's built a thriving independent. media empire, a podcast powerhouse and. trailblazer, a media titan, industry. veteran, a cultural critic, a. revolutionary hip hop commentator, Grammy nominated rapper, a savvy. business owner, multifaceted. entrepreneur, polarizing creator, unfiltered entertainer, unapologetic.

commentator, electrifying host, captivating personality, successful. broadcaster, and admired artist, a media. mogul, the podfather, Joe Button. [applause]. >> Do we do we do you right standing? Thank. you. Thank you for having. >> You remember we were just talking off. you like man I ain't been in the. business that long. I said well okay I I. I gave you a couple extra years but. you've been you like started playing in. the back of your head. You're right. >> No, I mean and then as I'm listening to. your introduction, I'm like, man, it has. been uh road longraveled road,

>> man. Let's look here. You do what you. did. That is a little That's a That's. shapier. Okay. You You want to do the. >> No, cuz I'm drinking water, but I toast. with you. >> There we go. Uh my man. uh bro, you uh shook up the internet. when you accident I don't know if you. accidentally or intentionally you was. trying to show look I'm doing this thing. my way and you accidentally that you. make x amount of thousand$100,000.

million dollars a month. What were you. hoping to do in the process of doing. that? Do you want to show like look you. can do it on your own or what was the. the purpose of you doing what you did on. >> Well the message is always that you can. do it. >> on your own for as many people that want. to hear that. >> in that moment I was just tracking the. the the the growth. >> Yes. >> I was sitting there just like like I. said it's been a it's been a road long. traveled right. >> so I think it was the impressions is. what I was trying to highlight. It was.

somewhere around. >> you forgot to block the other part out. huh? >> No. You know what? We we I we blocked. it, but we owe dinosaurs. So, they. unblocked it. >> Damn. >> They unblocked it and I got a lot of. phone calls, but God is in charge. So, ultimately, a lot of good came from it. And again, we sharing information. It's. not meant to be gay cap. >> Let me ask you this. What made you. decide to go to Patreon? because there. are a lot I mean you you're on YouTube. audio, you got Apple, you got a your.

your your your platform is vast and so. you got a lot of different people can. consume the Joe Budden podcast on a lot. of different platforms. Why was it so. important for you to go that route? Uh at the time that was uh. we had a high belief in in ourselves. >> and what we had accomplished at Spotify. previously. >> Okay. >> Uh and we had a lot of data that told a.

story. Uh so at the end of the term, you. know, you can listen to all the offers. in the field, which we did. We we listen. we listened to everybody. Uh. but ultimately. where would I be the happiest one? Uh. where could I. where could I be paid? Where could I celebrate in the growth of. my own show without having to ask. anybody? >> Mhm. >> I mean that was really that's always. just the most important. Did you feel.

like if you had taken one of these. deals, they were going to like then they. feel like they can what Joe Button can. talk about how Joe Button can move the. show, the growth of the show because you. move as you want to because you are the. sole proprietor. You're the sole owner. of the show. So if you want to add. somebody under your umbrella, I can do. that without having to ask for. permission. >> Well, you know what, show any anybody we. partnered with, they never really. tampered with the creative. >> Yes. >> In that, right? Uh but when you're just. learning, right? Learning, right? And at.

every turn, what I was learning about. how podcasters would to be paid and how. advertising worked and CPMs and all of. this other [ __ ] I never jived with any. of it, >> right? >> I never jived with any of that. And I. was able to because my show was so. large, you know, >> kind of have my own say in things. So at. complex it was complex negotiating the. advertisement deals with their sales. teams and whatever the tiny bump was in.

my contract is as much as I'd be able to. participate even though the ad was. contingent upon my participation. >> Correct. >> Big problem for me. >> Yeah. >> Big problem for me. >> cuz you doing all the work. You doing. all the ad reads. People want to hear. Joe button. They want to hear your. voice. It's not the same as them just. implanting it in there. They want to. hear Joe read that. And that's the part. that often gets like twisted up when I. when I say that this is only applicable. if your replacement list is like short.

because they can always replace you. Correct. >> They can always replace you. But I mean. >> it's my job to make it damn hard for. them to do that. >> As Spotify was more the same with the. advertisements for us. >> We were getting bunched in with whatever. thousands of shows, right? >> Well, we were one of the first, >> one of two. And then we got bunched in. with all of these thousands of shows. that y'all shopped and came back and. spread out the job. I don't jive I don't. jive with that. >> You're the most popular. >> I don't job with that. >> You're the most popular. You're the.

biggest. But you want us these other. mini shows. Yeah. You give us a tiny. bump, but it's not this is not market. I. want to be market. I want to be a free. agent cuz free agency is I can get what. the market bears and not just bunched in. because I'm under this umbrella. Well, and and now you taking it you taking it. to the next point, which is you go kick. ass at wherever the whatever the place. is, you name it. And then at the end of. the term, we have to negotiate.

>> the value of it. Yes. And a lot of times. y'all are in charge of dictating what. that looks like on your consumer face. I. don't jive with that. >> I don't jive with that. I never jive. with that. So, Patreon. for us was the best because we were able. to get equity. We were able to. participate in the growth of this. partnership. Uh, and it was able to just. put it in the hands of me and my fans, which has always been the case from day. one. >> Right. >> I always want to do that. >> Were you one of the first to go be on. Patreon? >> Uh, no. Not on Patreon. On Patreon, I.

wasn't one of the first. Patreon's been. around for a while. Before I signed my. Spotify deal, Patreon was around. >> Okay. But you didn't know really know. anything about it because because the. podcast B I've only been in it for like. 5 years, Joe. And so I remember CJ, who. was my producer, he was at Fox because I. got into this because Fox wrote it into. my deal. And so even though I had it in. my deal, we weren't doing anything. Co. happened. They was like, "Well, we would. like to, you know, because we got it in. your deal, we'd like for you to do a.

podcast." So I'm asking, I'm like, "What. am I going to do? What am I going to. talk about?" They like, and CJ was like, "Well, call the most famous people in your. phone and ask if they would really be. willing to become on the show." M. [snorts]. >> Now, at that time, there was no inerson, so we had to do everything virtually. Hell, I had Floyd Mayweather, had Snoop. Dogg, had Ice Cube, had Rick Ross, had. this one, and that one. And so, that's. how it started. But I was like, "This. ain't nothing." He said, "No, there's. money in it." I said, "Well, they ain't. tell me nothing about no money. They. just say I need to do this because it.

was written in my contract.". >> And they wouldn't. >> And so, but I did go back. I said, "Look, if I ain't say CJ because CJ was. an employee of Fox, so I ain't want to. get him in trouble." I said, "Well, I. think there's there's money in this.". The only person I knew that was getting. money in podcasting was Joe Rogan at the. time because he was so big. But I was. like, "Ain't no Joe Rogan." So, what's. the money? And then once you start doing. it and you start doing a lot of things. on your own and you start see like, hold. on, >> there's the YouTube and then you get the. programmatic for the ads that they place.

that you can place ads yourself. You. could. >> I like there really is money in this. >> It's a It's a whole other world. It's. It's a whole other world out here. But. as you said, that was not something they. were going to tell me. I. >> Hell no. Hell no. They wouldn't tell you. that. No way. >> But you said they gave you a equity. stake and paid you up. So is that what. you look for when you look to do any. partnership? Are you looking for an. equity stake or you just looking to take. the money up front? >> I'm never looking to just take the money. up front. >> Okay.

>> Um we we we we would have advanced. conversations in in the background, right? I'm not saying that no deal can. get done without me having equity, but I. ask for it today, right? >> Because the podcast and the podcast. community is its own economy and I've. seen the effect of what a partnership. does. We were we were at Spotify before. they went public. >> Uh we understood what they were trying. to do at the time uh to funnel money. away from the music business and. podcasting played a really pivotal role.

That's why I never want to underell it. because it is. lowbudget or the word podcast. >> Somehow it's developed a negative. connotation, Joe. Why is that? >> And you know what? And I listen when I. started it was a negative concept. They. kicked my ass for it. But it it today. it's. >> stigmatized. It they do tend to hear that word and. >> kind of just put it compartmentalize it. put it in its own it own space.

>> because a lot of the the big you know. like A-list celebs they look at podcast. like that ain't no like no real TV show. but if you look you look at Netflix is. starting to get involved in podcasting. you saw Amazon get involved in. podcasting you see these big. conglomerates if it wasn't if it wasn't. what is growing they ain't wasting no. time with. >> long before Netflix some of the shows. that would pop up on these streaming. apps television shows would be modeled. or based around a podcast, right?

>> I can't tell you how many times on Hulu. it would say inspired by this podcast or. it would start with a podcaster. So, >> it was broad and television shows would. even make mention of things that they. would hear on the podcast. But you're. right, uh how it's looked at and what. people get when they hear that word, it. is still because nobody really knows how. anybody's getting paid from it, >> right? >> I think that has a large part to do with. it too. All you ever hear I mean today. you hear all of these.

>> numbers so people know that there's a. way to get paid. >> correct. >> but they can't figure out how really. >> they don't really know how to get. started and then a lot of people just. think well Joe Biden making 20 million I. want to make I should make at least 15. they don't understand you didn't start. out making 20 million there is a gradual. process but everybody wants to skip the. process now Joe everybody just wants to. go straight to being the CEO don't. nobody want to clean don't nobody want. to work. Nobody wants to work, man.

I'm sure you've heard it. They come to. you, man. Want a podcast? I say, so how. often do you want to do it? Well, I just. want to shoot like 10, 12 episodes a. year. What? >> Yeah. >> And so you think that's going to work? You want 10 to 12 episodes a year, but. you want how much? >> That part. That part. How much money do. you want for those those 10 episodes? It. is I'm like, bro, that's why I don't. even know how to like.

give advice anymore because and I and I. do it week to week, different podcast. and we have the talk. >> But sometimes. those talks are a brother on episode. 8. saying, "Well, where's the money at and. how do I get paid?" And I'm like, it may. be a path for that, but that wasn't my. that wasn't my way. I did this for years. for free. A lot of that I did this when. a lot of the thoughts and ideas we had. were way ahead of the technology and.

then we had to just wait for everybody. to catch up. We had to wait for the ad. agencies to catch up. We had to So yeah, I don't know how to get paid by episode. 8. I don't. >> right. There is no money in episode 8. and and because now everybody's starting. to see there's a pathway. Everybody's. getting in. So it's becoming a very. saturated market now. So you've got to. be really really good. Now look, if. you're a big big you're a big big name, you know, if Denzel and Sam Jackson. started a podcast, people going to tune. in at first. Now the first three or four.

episodes, but then how can you keep them. because that's the hard part, Joe, is. getting people listen, man, Joe Button, I'm going to see what Joe talking about. Can you get him to come back? Can you. get them come back again? Listen, we've. not seen a million. >> A-list celebrities. start podcast or make the big podcast. announcement. >> or go get a big bag and never deliver an. episode. >> Nope. >> Not a one. I' I've seen them get fired.

I've seen them not they're not to be a. podcaster. Still to be a podcaster like. you have to you could count on the Joe. Button podcast to drop twice a week 52. weeks out the year. I'm going to I'm. going to be there, >> right? Some of them you're not committed. to it. Y'all are playing the headline. game. You are playing the the stock. game. You had no intention of doing it. >> Especially when Kobe came out, Joe. >> Oh my lord. >> Because there was nothing. There was. really no The studios couldn't shoot, but we got to get something out. >> Hey Joe. Hey, we got this big Okay.

Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I thought Joe had a podcast. I thought. Joe was going to drop this such and. such. >> They took the money and ran. >> Oh yeah. >> And then like, bro, it's a grind. And. people don't realize how hard you got to. work and what goes into it. Joe, people. really just think you and your you and. your group, y'all just show up and just. shoot. No, you got to run down. We got a. direction in which we want to go. We got. to get in and out. We got to direct. traffic. >> Yeah. >> It's not that simple. But people.

when people don't see how the food is. made, they think it's easy to cook. But. if you watch your grandmother or your. aunt or your mom cook, you realize that. plate ain't just getting on the table in. 20 minutes. >> She been prepping this. >> Yes. >> She been prepping this food. >> all night. >> You're absolutely right. >> But and then you really took it to a. next level. You're like, you know what? I'mma have my own ad team. I'm not going. to rely on some of the others that have. advert advertisers that they come to you. and then by the time it gets to you, you.

getting 60%. as opposed to like, you. know what, I hire my own ad team and. I'll get the whole eight 100% and they. give them a percentage of however you do. it. [clears throat] What made you what. made you decide to go that route? >> Honestly, our the outlook as far as ads. started. >> with just like how I listen to podcasts, okay, and. >> how I was as a rapper, I used to hate. promo. I used to absolutely hate doing. promotion. I'm not going to lie to you. Even when an album was coming out, I.

wouldn't promo it. >> And when I would listen to podcasts. and a and a ad would pop up, I didn't I. didn't necessarily enjoy that, right? I. didn't like that. I didn't want to. interrupt the flow of the conversation, >> uh, which I thought was extremely. important at the time. So, for for this. check and I tried them I tried at first. and I'm talking this is around 2015. 2016. >> Damn. >> 2015 2016. I tried to again Shannon, nobody knew where money was coming from. podcast. So if this ad came for whatever.

the money was, it was shorts, but the. thinking was if you pack in a bunch of. those, you can see how you make some. money. I did the ads, I them all up. I. them all up. Whatever the read was, I. went totally off script, laughed at. them, >> told them to call me instead. I think it. was Talkspace or somebody. It was it was. it was a mess. Uh but from there, again, how how I moved was because the audience. was so large and it was growing year. over year. So, I mean, it was cheaper to just hoe around and.

add yourself to death versus nurturing a. relationship with a brand that you. understood, that understood you. And. again, maybe this is trauma from uh. black people and how I view the word. shock jock. >> Mhm. >> Right. Because you'll participate in all the. success, but anytime something happens. off script, you're so quick to. toss us to the side, put all types of. words in these contracts. I didn't never.

jive with that. >> Right. >> I never jived with that. So, >> no, I forgot where I was. >> Yeah. No, but you were saying you were. saying why you decided to like do your. own. You have. >> to ads. Back to the ads. So, yeah. And. we were blessed enough to blessed enough. to have some really good partnerships. with some people for years and years and. years. And it was profitable for both. sides. And you meet good people and and. you do this thing. You you start to you. start to do it and you start to reap the.

benefits of the independent company. that's out here putting in the work. versus the the ads team, the sales team. And then that's always the thing too. this this whatever your beef is with. whoever you partnered with, at some. point they're going to put it on the. sales team if you start having the right. conversation. It's like, "All right, let. me come talk to the sales team, right? Then let's have a conversation. Let me. get on the phone with some of these. people." And. >> yeah, but edgy content. >> The big game is almost here, and there's. no better way to cash in during.

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these ads. I say, "So, how do you think. a graphics team and a producer and an. editor and social media, how do you. think I pay these people?". >> Mhm. >> That's how that's how it gets paid. These cameras cost money. >> Everything costs money. >> It does. >> Everything. >> And people don't understand. I say this. talent cost money. People don't work for. free. >> Your Tik Tok edit is going to cost. money. Your Snapchat edit is going to. cost money. Your any new camera, any new. lens, any picture that you see, the. thumbnail, the everything. And I don't. know how much you guys travel to get on.

the road, Joe. >> Oh, then there's that. >> I mean, I try not to because it get. expensive. But then there's that. >> You and and that's, you know, and like. you said, I mean, for us is that what we. try to do if we have to be somewhere, we. try to kill two birds with one stone. Well, let's see since we got to be. somewhere for night cap. Well, let's see. if we can do something for Club Shay. Well, if I got to do something for Club. Sh, let's see if we can get somebody for. night cap. That's the way you try to. work it to try to cut down on some of. the cost. But I don't think people. understand that to make a successful.

podcast, it costs money. >> You goddamn right. You better be. willing. You You got to believe in. yourself. You You have to invest in. yourself. >> Yeah. You have to make it work. >> Since the Joe Button is like taken off, has gone into another stratosphere. Stratosphere. Have you been able to. treat yourself. >> in what way? >> I mean, you know, maybe a new new whip, bigger house out in Jersey. Uh, I know. you like watches. >> I'm not so much into the watches like. that.

>> I can't tell. >> Yes. >> Yeah, exactly. >> I see. I see you now. I see you now. Um, >> not recently. No. >> No. >> Not recently. >> Not recently. I did that. I did that a. few years ago. >> Yeah. >> Went out and. >> bought the Ferrari and then bought the. >> whatever was next. I I did that. I had a. year of cars. I don't drive. Right. >> I I got my chauffeer. It's just like, okay, >> you got you got to drive. You got. somebody to drive it. So, like, why am I. buying these cars just to sit up in the.

garage? >> I mean, and I love my I love my cars. I. I love my truck. But I I did it. Felt. good. I'm off now and I'm in the process. of maybe building my my home. My. >> dream home. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm in the process of that. That's exciting and a headache, but. exciting. >> Yeah. It's funny how like you like Spotify say. Joe we got two mill for you you know do. your little do your podcast over here 2. mill you're like oh and I think you stay.

we was with Spotify for like a year. >> two years. >> two years. >> two years. didn't didn't ask for it. >> oh. >> and it's not that they would have g. given it to me it's not that they would. have given it to you. >> yes you got to. >> that's not my concern got to ask it you. got to ask it. >> all they got to do is say no Let him say. no. Let him say no. >> Cuz you hear these stories of Beyonce. performing for Uber. >> Mhm. >> She took she like they wanted to give. her money. She's like, "Nah, could I.

have equity?" She's like, "Okay.". >> And boom. Nas, same thing. >> Boom. >> Yeah. >> I was like, "Damn, when them deals going. to happen to me. >> They should be happening for you.". >> But uh you know that but that that's. that's the biggest thing though is that. early on we didn't know what we didn't. know. >> Yeah. Now we know we can ask and all. they can do is say nah nah we're just. like okay like you said I ain't turning. out no no no no big check. >> Yeah. >> But I got at least asked to take a.

little smaller version if I can get a. cut of the equity in the growth of the. company because we both believe you. believe in me. I believe in you. Let's. participate. Let's grow together. >> Yeah. And and at some point if you do it. enough times then we we pass belief. We. pass proof of concept stage. I'm done. convincing people what's gonna happen. Yeah. >> Like I've seen what happens too many. times when you pair this podcast with. this company. I know I know what's going. to happen. So no, if you don't.

understand what's going to happen and. you're not willing to pay for what's. going to happen, then you can't. participate in what's going to happen. It's the same way the other way around. >> When did you realize you were underpaid? How did you realize you were underpaid. and you decide to leave and go your. >> and and you know what and and I'm going. say complex but money was never the. driving force which is how we all end up. underpaid because we're doing it for the. love and the look. >> Yes. >> Uh it was that complex again they up. they I was inquisitive. I asked a lot of.

questions. >> I'm always early. I'm always punctual. I'm going to open the building. I'm. going to be the last one here on the. show, >> right? >> I'm going to talk to the camera people. I'm going to talk to the the corner. suite. >> Like, I'm going to have the information. to be able to best make the next. decision. And that's how I ended up. learning about what went on with the ads. and how they were being sold and how. they were being funneled to me. And I. just believed that I should participate.

differently once I heard that. I had no. idea of the money that was flying around. because we not supposed to ever learn. the money that's flying around. But once. I heard it, it was over. And I was like, well, what happens if I don't wear this. whatever the. >> sneaker was at the time? And they were. pulling out. big money. >> Yeah. >> Oh, no. I don't jive with that. I don't. jive with that. And from there. everything was education after that.

From there, everything was education and. learning what people are paying, learning what they're paying for, how. they value it, >> uh how they're benefiting from it. Like. you just it's education. You had to. learn. >> But Joe, at the time you turned down. allegedly a big deal from Spotify, over. $40 million. That's a lot of money. That. is. >> I don't know if it was 40, but it was it. was. >> it was substantial amount. Good amount. Probably more than you. >> I ever made. >> Yeah. you like and and to just to walk.

away from that Joe and to believe in. yourself to say you know what and. somebody who who did I hear say well if. uh Master P said well they offer me a. million well if they offer me a million. I must be worth about 50 to 100. >> yeah on salange album. >> yeah [clears throat]. so. >> absolutely right. >> is that how you were thinking if they're. offering me this substantial amount of. money I've got to be worth a little bit. more cuz they ain't looking to break. even they looking to turn a profit so if. they'll give you that kind of money, what kind of profit are they expecting.

to turn? >> Well, at Spotify again, craving information. >> Mhm. The two years I was there, we did a. lot of asking for advanced analytics, a. different kind of dashboard, uh different uh codes to be able to. track things that were specific to. >> your show like. so we got this data for we got this data. for two years. >> Okay. At the end of that road, you can.

take this. 30 million or whatever the number was or. you can trust in what the data is saying. if you go out there and just do the. work. >> If you think if if that says that for. the last two years and you trusting your. audience and what you're doing, I'm. going to take these people with me over. here and see what happens. And by the. grace of God, it worked out, man. It. worked out. But a lot of tough decision. decision making, a lot of sleepless. nights, >> it is. >> a lot of lot of lot of turmoil, a lot of. scrutiny, a lot of public [ __ ].

>> a lot of mistakes, a lot of mistakes. But I mean, my trust is in him. When you. see Joe Rogan get a deal, Alex Cooper, the Kelsey brothers, the Ringer just. sold white people. >> Damn. >> Damn. Yo, you Joe, you ain't even let me. finish. Okay. Well, go ahead. >> There's no need for me that there's no. need for me to be starting the. conversation wrong. >> There ain't. >> I'm not I don't I'm not I won't There. never a time where I'm comparing my race.

to a white man's race, >> right? >> Unfores. Yeah. >> Um, but let's not make it seem like. >> and I don't need to either, right? I. don't need to. There there's uh Steve. Harvey. >> Yep.

>> There is [ __ ] Charlemagne. Yeah. >> Is on that list. There is. >> Kevin Hart has a podcast that. >> there is Kevin Hart. There is uh a. brother Ste uh Stephen A. I'm mad with. him right now. But. >> uh there are there are blacks. when you own your IP, >> right? >> It's black examples of that. And. congrats to all of those people you. name. Uh Alex, I'm a big um Bill guy.

Love Bill. Shout out to Joe. That's. cool. But not the same risk. >> If they came to you and offered you. something like that, would you be. willing to turn over says, "Okay, I'll. I'll do X amount of shows for this. amount of money. Y'all take y'all sell. whatever. Y'all going to give me X. I'm. cool with it.". >> Wait, if who said that? >> If let's just say a Spotify, one of. these big conglomerates, uh, right now. Netflix, uh, Amazon is still in, they. don't do as much as they once did. Uh, W.

uh, what is that? Wandering and Wave and. all those guys, they say, "Joe, um, we're going to take up the Joe button. We're going to take up the umbrella. we're gonna give you x amount of dollars. and then we're going to sell everything. Kind of like what they do with Joe. Rogan. I think Joe got a fiveyear $250. million deal. So they come to Joe Rogan. I mean come to uh Joe and say, "Joe, we. got a 5year $200 million deal. We just. want to take over everything.". >> Probably not.

Probably not. It's not where I'm at right now. I'm 45. Like I still feel spry. I still feel. like I don't feel like the aging artist. that needs to go sell his catalog. >> Oh, okay. Okay. I see what you're. saying. >> And and I'm building catalog. >> Yeah. >> I'm I'm building catalog. >> Well, and I know what I make right now. >> Mhm. >> So, >> they have to double they have to double. that, huh?

>> And we'll talk to anybody. I mean, don't. don't get me wrong. We'll we'll we'll. talk to anybody and probably are talking. to most of them, right? But [snorts] the. deal would have to be. boutique. >> Are [snorts] you looking to scale? Are. you looking to have more instead like. say like uh like Netflix, they're trying. to they're getting podcast and trying to. develop their podcast division or you. look at some of these other Amazon was. trying to develop their podcast. division. Is that what you're trying to. do with Joe Button? Are you trying to.

develop a podcast division where you. have, you know, obviously somebody maybe. in hip hop and then somebody in. motivation and somebody in fitness and. somebody in, you know, relationships? Are you trying, is that the the. direction that you're trying to go in? >> Maybe. Maybe. Right now, I'm focused on. on getting as many eyes as possible on. the Joe Button podcast and our exclusive. content that we drop on Patreon. Okay. >> And from that, you know, we have we have. other shows. We have Podwise which is a. a huge success. Uh we got the inner Mark.

show. Like I want to be nimble enough. Shannon to always be able to go do a. show, >> right? >> Whether that be a finance show, a sports. show. I want to be nimble enough and. have the staff in place to any idea that. we think of we can go execute. Whether. it be a dock, whether it be a comedy, whether whatever it is. So I always want. to do that right this second. No, there's too much fun stuff happening. out here with all of these all of these. platforms.

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coverage at ethos.com/shay. That's et.com/shay. Again, that's ethos.com/shay. Application times and rates may vary. in. the process of scaling or would if you. scale are you saying okay I have the Joe. Buddton podcast but I don't need to be a. part of everything that's going on in. the Joe Budd universe. >> yeah definitely and hopefully. >> yes. >> and and hopefully. >> but like you said you like man I'm young.

I'm spry and listening that you talk and. I see how like man I'm just 45 you get. excited to get up out of bed and go do. what you do every day and that's the. kind of motivation that you got to have. to be successful. >> I'm living an absolute dream. I make no. make no mistake about it. I get to wake. up, live, eat, dream, and [ __ ] music as a. music lover. >> Mhm. >> Right. Like I want to hear my favorite.

song enough to be good if I never hear. it again. I'm that type of guy. Like I. really love this. I'm talking to my. friends every day. You talking to. somebody whose road wasn't the school. and more schooling and then work and. then Yeah. My story I don't come from. none of that. So from from my start to. where I am. >> Yeah. No. Why why why why would you not. do more? >> Right. >> Why would you slow down? Why would you.

not dedicate every second to this [ __ ]. Especially that's before you get to. reaping the fruits. >> Yes. >> The fruits of it. That's that's awesome. But just without that, how could you not. want to do what's the alternative? >> Because I think the thing is for you, Joe, and kind of myself is that we found. something that we really love doing. How. many people out there really enjoy going. to their job? >> Well, I I Well, today, >> yeah, >> today I think that number is should be.

projected to change if you look at the. next 10 years, but. >> today. Yeah. But I encourage everybody. out there to find something that they. passionate about. Right. >> Like even if you going to work every day. still when you get off work, do. something that you're passionate about. for that to ignite that other [ __ ]. that's in you. >> Yeah. That that but that's the thing. like how many times you heard some man I. hate this job. I man sure be glad when. this shift over. >> It's hard to do that for 20 30 and a lot.

of people do that. Joe, we found. something. Look, I was a professional. athlete. I enjoyed it. You was in the. rap game. you enjoyed it. You you and. everybody doesn't get to transition. Everybody doesn't get to have something. they enjoy doing and then find something. else they enjoy doing just as much if. not more. >> If not more. Yeah. >> You and I have been very very blessed. A. whole lot of people aren't blessed like. that, Joe. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, don't try to Don't try to trick me into. saying [laughter]. >> No, no, but but they're not. But.

>> but we It's But it's true. It's true. >> But listen, go ahead. As much as eggs. cost to have a to have a job. As much as. >> by buying me a hand, a couple of hands. of myself. >> No, honestly. And if you're living in. New York, New York is expensive. New. York is New York. New Jersey, it is. criminal. What the is going on out here? >> I just left California after 8 years. You ain't got to tell me nothing, >> man. Oh my lord. So So if if if you can. feed yourself and shelter yourself,

you're you're blessed. If you're. healthy, if you're healthy, then then. you're blessed. We we're blessed. >> in a different way. >> Yeah. >> In a different way. But that's not the. norm. >> No, >> that's that's not the norm. And I'm I'm. not even going to sit here and pitch it. like it is. >> For the longest time, YouTube was the. only really space that podcast lived. Uh, and they're still big with the ads, but you see Netflix coming in and they. got boatloads of money. Should you two. be worried. >> if you're asking me? [ __ ] yeah.

>> Yeah, >> cuz you YouTube wants to be a network. Netflix want to be a network. But Joe, you know this. In order for you to be. considered a network, you have to have. live sporting events. And what if. YouTube done? They got the NFL. What if. Netflix done? Got the NFL. Amazon, what. do they do? Get NFL and basketball. So. if you want to be taken serious, >> and Paramount got UFC, right? So. >> at W at WWE, you see you see where. they're going with this? >> Yeah. No, they're playing big boy games.

up there with big boy dollars for sure. And YouTube has always operated. as the lone whale whale in the sea. >> Uh. everybody was there already because. that's where the eyes were and that was. back since way back. So now, right, you. have somebody over there should have. seen so many stars. They should have they should have seen. the the the.

kids doing baby music. They should have. seen the lowfi the lowfi music channel. guy. They should have saw the the the. was before there was no tuby. They. should have saw the small independent. movie guys, the director guys, the. podcasters. You had them all. So now. we're in 2026. Eventually somebody else. on somebody else in the sea had a dick. >> Yeah. >> Somebody somebody else had a wallet and. now they see what you Well, they may see.

more than you see and we have to find. out about that. But there somebody else. with a checkbook. >> that's coming to pull your biggest and. not just not just they're coming to pull. from everybody they pulled from. Yeah. Right. That was bar stool, that was. volume, that was IRA, they was where. have they fulled from? If I were. YouTube, I would be concerned about what. that meant for again not today, but. everything is projection 10 years, 5 to. 10 years from now, right? What does that. mean? My little sister right now is. >> 12 years old. In the next 5 to 10, you.

talking about 17, 22 years old. How is. she going to be consuming things? Uh how. is that age group going to digest? Where. are they going to go? So, it'll be. interesting to see what happens. But if. I were YouTube, I'd be having a meeting. about it. >> Wow. >> Um, good friend of yours, you you guys. go back and forth. Charlemagne, >> my man, >> 200 million to do his uh black I think. it's black uh his podcast. Congratulations Charlamagne on that. >> Indeed. >> Um, >> when you heard when you heard the news.

like there was somebody there was a Joe. But there there was somebody in a Joe. Button that looked kind of looked like. us. Charm I mean a Joe like 200 million. like damn. >> congratulations. That's kudos. Don't. hate. Okay, let me see if I can get my. get my group together and see what we. can come up with. >> Can't hate about that. You can't hate. about that. If you wanted to hate him, that wasn't the time to do it. >> You can't. That's that's that's a black. man who put the work in, who did it his. way with his ideology, and at the end of.

the road, >> uh, found a way to bump into that type. of not bump into, that's not wrong. wording, but to end up with that type of. headline. So you there is nothing that. you gave on with that. It's inspiring. >> Very. >> It's inspiring. >> Were you Were you originally cast to be. a member of the Breakfast Club? >> No. Where'd you get that? Who you spoke. to? >> I'm just asking. I'm just that I mean. >> I was so happy to be coming here messree. >> cuz I don't have current mess. But who.

told you that? Where'd you get that. from? >> I just I mean look, >> that's a good That was a good one. Uh, no. No. I was never. >> I don't know. I don't know. I mean, you. got. >> My name was in a hat. My name was in the. hat uh at Inception. >> Mhm. >> When they were tossing some ideas around. when they really didn't have a title, >> right, >> yet. I went to one dinner with somebody. concerning that. But I I was never uh.

I was never uh in further talks about. it. Okay. >> That was a good one. >> Yes. We I mean we do our research. We we. >> Somebody over there. Somebody over. there. >> We do our research. The Complex Show, Everyday Struggle. How did that show. change your life? >> It changed every It changed everything. about my life. Everything [snorts] about. my life. It was college. It was going to. college for me cuz I' i've never gone. So to wake up at 6:00 in the morning, head into the city from Jersey and.

just kick it with people. Just kick it. just kick it with people. And again, all. the learning that happened for me, all. of the education I got from Complex. It was it was. that time that time was everything for. me. It was the education. We had fun. I. think we changed the landscape of media. at that show. Uh it was a huge. rebranding tool for me, which was a. large part of what I was doing it for, right? Um, I thought I thought people.

might have had the wrong impression of. me and. all good things came from it. All great. things came from it. >> Would you consider you guys were the. first take of hip-hop? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. First take whole piece. definitely inspiration for sure. >> That debate style that debate style was. hot. Uh there was the conversation going. on in hip-hop about uh the OG's and the. younger the younger generation and how.

we should be kind and treat each other. and speak to each other. So all of that. was hot at the time and and Complex knew. what to do with it. They they marketed. it right. They put it in in front of the. right people. It took off hit changed. everything. >> Could that format work today? >> Yeah. Yeah. today so much is is. personality driven. >> It is. >> it's it's in it's in our hands today. So. get the right personalities. If you get. the right personalities ain't going to. work today. And there's so many people.

out there. how much you make it. So they come to. you to say look we got this we got this. idea because a lot of times like for an. idea like man just for me to get on. television I'll take whatever cuz I. remember when I was playing Joe uh my. coach used to commend me you know what I. love about Sharp Sharp would play this. game for free and I would always say but. I'm going to need everybody else to play. for free too. I ain't going to be the. only mo play for free if everybody play. for free I'll play it for free but you. not going to pay them and I play and I.

get paid and I play play for free. So. when you look at it, it had to be a. small amount. I mean, cuz it was a new. show. You don't getting. >> Complex. I wasn't making no money. You. weren't making no money. No, I wasn't. making no money. >> No, I wasn't making no money on Complex. Hell no. I I was making enough to to. >> to keep you coming back drive back into. the city. >> again. Money never moved me. >> Okay. >> That's never what I was doing anything. for with with with hip-hop, >> right? I love this [ __ ] and I wanted to.

be considered the best from people I. thought was was the best. >> Okay. >> And then I got a record deal and bumped. my head all these times like, "Oh [ __ ]. it's a music business." And and again, more education. >> Uh so no, I wasn't making no damn money. on Complex. Hell no. Not at all. Not at. all. But when you. >> But that was the last time I was under. underpaid. But was it was it a situation. that once you found out that they were. making money and they weren't paying you. any money? Is that when you like went in. and say, "Okay, well, I want to make X.".

And they like, >> "So, how did you how did why did you end. up leaving the show?". >> Well, I finished my contract. My. contract was. 9 months. >> Okay. >> Uh they weren't looking to renew it. I. had a child on the way. >> Okay. >> And that was the end. We weren't on the. greatest of terms because of. how I valued the show versus how they. valued the show. And we tried a few. times to come back to the table, but.

nothing really ever came from that. But. and and by then everything that's when. the deals became. a lot more lucrative, right? >> It was that point on. Complex was a. proving ground. That show was like a. proving ground of sorts. That was your. proof of concept that Joe Button can. sail. >> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. We were Yeah, we were. out of here. We were out of here. Everybody Everybody was ready to talk at. that point. >> But when you do reality do When you do.

reality TV, obviously some conflict has. to be a part of the show. >> Well, on reality television, yes. >> On reality television, yes. >> That was right up your alley, huh? >> Well, which time? I have I have I have. many different reality TV experiences. >> Yeah. Yeah. You you do. >> I have I have I have my first tenure on. Love and Hip Hop when I had the stupid. vests on and my barber was putting all. the stupid [ __ ] in my face and I was.

high off Molly's so I couldn't even look. at myself and say, "Hey, what the are. you doing?" Right. And I did that for. years. >> Uh oh. And then sprinkle in some X's. >> That was a mess. >> Yes. Uh, and more importantly than that, the contract may not have been the. greatest for all of these different. reasons. So, cool. But. then I think I had a couple's therapy. >> Yeah. >> Stent. >> You like. >> Interesting. >> You like reality TV? >> I like I I like I I'm a fan of reality.

and if you're going to tape it, then. let's tape it. That mindset started for me because in. rap in the era that I was in in hip-hop, yes, it was very. it was very braggadocious. It was very. stand on couches with 20 girls in the. cars and the jewelry. Rappers couldn't. even really say they had a girlfriend, >> right, >> at in that in that era, >> right? >> I didn't have the label support to where. that would ever be my story. And that's. not who who I was. I was an introverted.

kid who suffered with addiction issues. That that was my story. So. yeah, I forgot what I was saying just. that fast. >> No, you say reality TV. >> Oh, reality. Oh, so yeah, that that was. my mindset, right? Like in 2006, I can cut a camera on and just show who. I am for real and my real life and my. real relationship and my dayto-day. travels. I guess some of what the.

streamers are are doing now. And that. worked, >> right? >> That worked. Anytime I was authentic, it. worked. So, I try to always be. authentic. >> You can only be Joe. >> I I Well, that I can be better than. better than anybody else. >> You had a viral encounter on the show uh. with Lil Yachty. And. I mean maybe that that you guys. rectified that situation because he ends. up getting a he kind of you know he kind. of followed the same path you rap.

podcast but he he. >> that's why we do it. We leave it to. leave a trail. Yeah. >> We do it to leave a trail for the people. coming behind us. That that that's a big. part of it. Shout out to Yachty. We we. we we reconciled. We made up. That's my. man. He did a podcast. I came I came. through. I was supposed to go to the. show when they were in New York for they. did a million shows in New York and I. missed them all. But no, shout out to. Yachty. >> Real good podcast. >> But you know what, Joe? >> A lot of times people think the biggest. in one area will be the biggest in.

another area. And it doesn't work like. that. >> No. >> Just bec just because you s let's just. say for the sake of argument, just. because you sold 50 million albums, that. doesn't mean you can get a podcast and. it's going to take off like that. >> Yeah. But people think people think it's. like that. People think just because. they were successful in one genre, they. can be successful in another genre. >> No. No. This thing comes with like like like. we've already stated, so much work got. to be done. It's a 24/7 kind of thing, 7.

days a week. For me, it it it demands so. much. I I started focusing on my health. Like I got to be able to show up for. myself and uh. >> cuz you can't sleep, man. It's it's all. consuming. It's it's really all. consuming because all you think about. okay who could I get what are we going. to talk about who do I need to talk what. brands could I get and let them know. that this is what we're doing this kind. of direction it is like and you're right. man if you don't.

>> you. >> if boy you hey work out eat right. less sugar [laughter] sleep rest your. mind. >> it's just hard though Joe it's hard to. it's hard for me to turn my mind off. I. know it's hard for you to turn your mind. off. >> Yeah. Yeah. But I uh I do I do a good. job of going to bed when I need to go to. bed. I do a good job of that now. That's. my favorite. That's one of my favorite. things about being in my 40s is the bed. and and how fast I can get there. Ooh,

it's exciting. >> Really? >> It is so exciting. You [ __ ] me. I'll. be in the bed at 4:30 if you let me. [laughter]. It's a blessing and a curse for you. though because you've been in the. industry. You met you've made a lot of. friends but sometimes you. >> No, I didn't. >> You didn't make no friends, John. >> I ain't friends with a whole bunch of. [ __ ] But let Okay. Well, let let me. let me let me [laughter]. even hearing it is. >> Hell no. But a lot of times when you're in a when.

you're in a particular business. and you have to critique or talk about. someone from said business, they expect. favor. Well, Joe, you know what it's. like, man. You've been in here before, so you probably shouldn't take that. approach that what you because you're. like me. You going to say what's on your. mind. >> That's the thing. You got to be willing. to. >> stand on it. that that was a when I. retired from rap, I wrestled with this. because I'm about to talk about my. peers.

>> And for me, I'm like, "Okay, you know. what? >> If I'mma do it, I'mma do it, >> right?". >> Like, you can't half step. You can't you. can't. >> you can't try to do one thing and you. can't steal second base to keep your. foot on first. I say it all the time. So, yeah. No, I deal I I dove all the. way in. and you're going to feel about. it. How you feel about it? For me, as. long as I'm saying something that I can. say to you, >> uh I'm attempting to be respectful. I'm. not trying to like I got a good heart. I'm not trying to [ __ ] on none of y'all.

out there, >> right? >> I'm trying to just critique fairly. >> But you get. >> and I'll take what comes from that. >> But a lot, you know, a lot of time, Joe, anytime you're in any business, if they. feel if you weren't at the top of the. food chain, who are you to critique my. career? You wasn't Jay-Z. you wasn't him. or you weren't this one. That's how. people feel. People feel like, "Well, I. wasn't Tom Brady, so Shannon, why you. comment?" I like, "Well, damn. I can't. have an opinion.". >> Well, you in the Hall of Fame.

Well, they they that's why they get mad. cuz see, here's the thing, Joe, with me. And this is what uh Prime Coach Coach. Prime told me. He said, "The reason why. it bothers them is that they can't punch. holes in your resume because you was an. allp pro, you won Super Bowls, you went. to Pro Bowl, and you got that gold. jacket. I'm one of less than 400 men of. 30,000 men that's played, coached, owned. teams in the NFL. >> So with that, it stings a little bit. I'm not trying I'm trying to be as. respectful as I can. But you're not. playing well. You didn't play good. So I.

think I have an obligation to say that. when you play well, I have an obligation. to say that. But people, >> they will disregard. And I don't know. why the mind is wired like this. And I'm. going see what you have to say. You can. be in an arena, Joe, and you can hear. 70,000 fans screaming Joe Joe. But them. five fans de boot, I don't know why they. voices louder than the 75,000 fans that. cheer. >> Yeah, I got time today for you five. You. five. All this other [ __ ] is great. Hey,

I agree with y'all. I'm awesome. So, there's nothing for us to go back and. forth about. But you other five. >> Yeah. I got something for y'all ass. today, though. >> Yeah. >> But why? But so did did you get the. calls when you first started out? >> I get them all the time. >> You still get them. >> from people? >> Yes. >> Oh, hell yeah. They they call they they. they call me all the time. I got a good. feel now for who's calling, when they. calling, what topic going to make them. call, who's listening. Assume assume. everybody's listening. >> They are. If they're not somebody they. know.

>> Yeah. Assume everybody is listening. Yeah. Or somebody that know them or. somebody in their family. >> You heard what Joe said about you. >> Oh yeah. It's getting back to everybody. the president family. It's getting it's. getting where it got to go. So, I try to. keep that in mind while I'm talking, but. I'm devoted to this [ __ ] man. >> You and Cardi had a few But is it harder. for you to have a disagreement with a. with a with a woman um that's in the. business than a man? >> You know what's funny? I I try not to. have disagreements with women.

>> Sometimes it's unavoidable. >> I mean, >> what is dep what are we disagreeing. about? Like music? Yes. >> Oh, well I mean then we not doing the. the woman and man thing. Then we doing. music. We doing music and music lovers. Okay. But I don't I don't think there's. too much of a reason for me to be. publicly disagreeing with a woman. I. just don't even like how it. >> looks how it comes off. Yeah. But you. critique but sometimes it like if you. critique let's just say for the sake we. take Cardi uh you you've kind of gone.

back and forth with Cardi about her some. of her music. >> No I have not. No I have not gone back. and forth. What would you do? >> I have given my opinion, >> right? >> And she's gone on her platform to give. hers. >> And she didn't like what you said about. your. >> Yeah, that's that's okay. That's okay. >> Okay. >> I'm not doing the I'm now I'm going on. my platform to respond to what you had. to say from what I had to say. I don't. like that. I don't like that. >> So, in other words, you have a critique. Somebody doesn't like your critique. They go on somebody else platform or.

their own platform. They go on IG live. or whatever. They're they're. >> Yes, they're right. >> You done with it? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was done after I. finished saying what I was saying about. it. I I was done. Unless something. drastic happens to call me back out to. play and that really is not going to. happen with me and a female. Most of the. females have my support from day zero, >> right, >> from them because yeah, they just been. killing. So, >> yeah. No, I'm not doing a back and forth. with a girl or a guy for that matter, right? >> Or a guy. Honestly, it's not even about.

that or or a guy, >> right? with the two. >> on the internet. >> Yeah. >> To now today. >> So if. >> sorry buddy. >> if if Cardi said if C. if a woman rapper I mean there's only. like a handful of the ones that mean you. know you got Glow, you got Meg, you got. Nikki, >> there's a bunch. >> you and you got Carney. If they want to. say, "Look, Joe, I want to have a. conversation with you cuz I want to see. why you said what you said and and the. context of what you where you was trying.

to go with it." You down to meet. >> always. >> Always. >> Man or woman, >> right? >> Always down to meet or talk about. something I said. >> You like what what we talk about before. before I before I go, what we talk. about? >> It's normally just how somebody feel. about something I said. And I I get. that. People are human. People are. sensitive, >> right? >> Uh artists deal with a lot of [ __ ] I. understand it. I understand. I I was. that. I try to carry myself a certain. way because I was that and I understand. it. But sometimes we go too far. We talk.

for a living. We talk too much. We say a. lot. >> And and as long as it's not coming from. a a ill place, it's not coming from. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> But but I think the thing is with you. and myself is that we're passionate. We're not really going to talk about. something that we're not passionate. about. And people take passion as hate. Well, that's what the young G this Gen Z. and these millennials, if you don't. agree with them, uh you hating. Hating. about what? Because I didn't like that. If I say I don't like oranges, that. don't mean I hate apples.

But that's that's that's where we are. now, Joe. >> Well, we're passionate and we're going. to say what we have to say, but we're. also some of the best in the field, right? And that has to be accounted for. during whatever I'm doing. So, I'm not. expecting the artist to understand how. I'm dressing something up or how I'm. producing in the moment or or just how. I'm being performative or. >> how I'm putting sauce on something that.

I ain't even I don't expect them to get. all of that. Uh, how do you feel? If if. if I hurt their feelings, I'll. apologize. I'm not. >> I'm not uh that's not beneath me. Like, I'll apologize and get this out the way. But for the most part, it's cool with. everybody. Nikki goes on stage with Charlie Kirk's. widow. >> I didn't love it. >> Why. >> did you love it? >> You know what, Joe? I'm going be honest. To keep my sanity and to keep my calm,

I really try to stay out of this cuz I. see what's going on and all it does is. make me more and more upset. And. when it first when people first started. getting behind President Trump, I lost. some friends. But I started to think. about it. I was like, it's their opinion. This if that's how. they feel, I'm ruining friendships and. relationships because. so I let them have I let them have. that's their choice. >> I understand. I understand.

>> But it it it took some growth on my part. because I see and I think I'm looking at. you. You're like, man, did you hear some. of the things that that man said about. women that's like you and you sitting up. there with his. that. is the role that. I believe turning point to play in. the rewriting of history or revisionist. history when they visit these schools.

and have all of this money just. basically being pumped into. a certain belief system. I won't I won't. take us there and speak to what I. believe that belief system to be. >> Okay. >> But it's it's a mess. It's deeper than. political views. I'm not I'm not. political at all. >> Mhm. >> I'm not political at all. You want to. Republican, you I'm not that's not my. bag. But the way people go about certain.

things, uh when you see what happened to Renee. Nicole Good. >> Yeah. in Minneapolis, when you see the. way that these quote unquote ICE agents. are behaving, when you hear how the. president responds to. uh that incident, when you hear how he. responded to the the Reiner murders, there's a there's a tone that I don't. think is hidden and they're hiding these.

this white nationalist views behind. Christianity. It's. It's in front of our faces. So, >> and. >> and and and and. a lot of money over there. >> Yes. >> It's a lot of money over there. So, she. won't be the first or the last like. there will be plenty more celebrity. >> for sure. >> to take that check. Listen, when you on. that side, they they rocking. They they.

rocking. So tempting for people, I know, but my views and just how I was raised. and. >> Okay, good. >> My family that I come from and and. something to South Carolina. >> because you know how it works, Joe. All. it takes is one. Well, you heard what. Joe said. Joe said black people are. doing the X, Y, and Z. Well, you heard. what Shannon said that he did say X, Y, and Z. So, they'll take the voice of one. and then try to make it the voice of. millions.

>> Yeah. Well, and that's a plan. And. that's a plan. I can't I can't be. complicit. >> No, I I. >> And not and sleep at night. So, it. bothers me when I when I see people that. I know and have some sort of. relationship with and have had some. conversations with and, you know, I've seen people grow and become. multi-million dollar brands from. black [ __ ].

and black people. >> and. black consumerism. Like, so to watch you. take that equity. and stand over there. >> Yeah. I can't I can't jive with that. >> Uh Nikki got upset at me cuz I was on I. was on Twitter and I was going back and. forth with somebody and we were talking. about Nikki Haley. And so I say that. woman don't care nothing about X, Y, and. Z. So we're going back and forth. We're. talking Nikki Haley. They tweet. something, I tweet back. Somebody tweet,

"You should have Nicki on the show." I. said, "Nikki who?". Nicki Minaj thought I was taking a diss. at her. >> I said, "How you take a d We're talking. about Nicki Haley and I know. >> I remember that. >> I'm not Joe. >> I remember that. >> We going back and forth. We're talking. about some real heavy stuff and then. somebody certain you should have Nicki. on the show." How am I supposed to know. they talking about Nicki Minaj when I. just going been going back and forth two. tweets about Nicki Haley?

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> She got upset. >> The barbs was on you. >> I'M LIKE, BRO, >> THE barbs made the week hot. >> I'M LIKE, WELL, DAMN. >> YEAH. >> I mean, if they Hey, I'm talking about. Joe Biden, man. You should have Joe on. Joe who, man? Oh, you don't KNOW JOE. BIDEN, MAN. I'M TALKING ABOUT JOE BIDEN. WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT JOE BIDEN. >> YOU GOT TO BE CAREFUL. You got to be. careful with these these high. >> But people people look to get find. something get upset about that. >> Well, on the internet, we got to. remember, man,

26, >> the internet is the internet. It's the. internet. It's the internet. It's Bob. 314. [laughter]. >> I don't know where this guy Oh, it's a. big thing on X the other day. Some more. uh white radical [ __ ] X uh. where they were exposing the origin of. certain accounts. >> Yes. >> And in hip-hop, some of these accounts. that have just been reporting hip hop. and being divisive or talking about uh.

hip-hop beefs, they out in India Page. Page started three months ago. It's. like, yo, we just got a lot of filler. [ __ ] around just bots and. >> bums and it's just cluttered. It's. cluttered. Now, it is. >> the Aiden Ross and the Doi. You was very. outspoken about that. You're like, I. don't rock with O Boy. >> I mean, you got your right to, but you. for you to to go as hard at her and he's.

probably said some other things that I. didn't necessarily agree with, but you. like I'm okay. I'm okay. Uh, I guess it. was some some gang form of gang member. I don't know. Uh, >> Glasses Malone. >> Yeah, Glasses Malone. >> Good old Glasses Malone. He's. >> like, bro, out. >> Bro, you know, hey, >> he said that's going to stop. You do it. again, we going to have to we going to. have to come over there or we'll we'll. make sure that that don't happen again. is what Glass said. And he said, >> what's his what's his angle? What is he.

trying to accomplish here? >> Aiden Ross. >> Oh, I'm not I'm not certain what his. angle is. I'm not familiar with what. these [clears throat] some of these. streamers and their community and how. they go about things. I don't know. I. can't say I'm familiar enough with him. >> Yeah. And I'm not. >> his ecosystem to speak on it. >> I think him and Kasanette had a falling. out about something that he had said. something and then he was doing. something with Puka. Remember Puka? >> I didn't like the Puka Nua. Uh I didn't. like how that went down. I've just seen. enough from him for me to say.

>> Yeah. >> Something going on there and it's just. not for me. But more importantly than. that, uh, yeah, how he was speaking. about Doi and the manner in which he. felt comfortable doing so, also him. picking up the phone to call another. black man to try to vouch for him doing. that to a young black queen. Nah. Nah. >> Is he the one that was talking about he. could say the n word? >> He can't do that. >> Wasn't he the one? >> I think so. I've seen I've seen clips.

from him with that. So, I mean that I. don't I'm not. >> I I just don't. >> I'm not with all of that. >> And then even after again even after uh. >> black people try to check it. They say, "Hey, you're speaking this way. It might. be cool how you was raised, but it's not. cool here in this. >> right. >> space." He continued he continued to do. so. So, not till people had to make. phone calls. Not till not till he. started losing money did he stop. >> Right. Exactly. See, but we we need that.

example. We need the example of, hey, you can't just get on these platforms. willy-nilly saying whatever you want to. say about black people and there be no. recourse, >> no repercussion, no at least deep dive. into the instance. There has to be some. type of they never respond until they. lose some money. >> Correct. >> And it's never been the case because. you've always been able to just walk all. over us and keep yourself. >> It never happened. >> Yeah. So yeah, we needed that example.

>> Eric Bernay said something. He said, "Uh, we keep inviting y'all to the. cookout, but when are you guys going to. invite us to the boardroom?". I saw him say that. I saw him say that. We quick. We Hey, he or she can come to. the cookout. >> I ain't a fan. I'm not a fan. >> You don't let nobody come to the. cookout, Joe? >> I'm not going to say nobody. I got a lot. of white people I'm really fond of, >> right? >> Uh, and they're great cook. cover. You. bring a dish out. >> People know they can't bring a ra.

>> You know, you already know the mashed. potato going have raisins on it. >> Actually, my man my man Parks maybe. could bring a dish, but he's a chef. >> Okay. >> Uh. >> I understand what Eric Benet is trying. to say. I'm not sure I would have said. it that way. But I understand I. understand what he's what he's trying to. say. >> But then again, I'm not with Shannon. I. ain't with waiting on people either. I. don't jive with that. I'm from. Build it yourself. Do it yourself. I'm.

not asking for handouts. I'm not begging. nobody. I'm not convincing nobody. I'm. not It's too much. It's too much. It's. too much going on in the in the business. world for me to have to concern myself. with all of that. There's been times. where I was supposed to get the deal. I. didn't get the deal because 90 people. had to sign off on me getting a deal. 90. people not going to sign off on me. making more than probably 45% of them. It's like, >> right, >> this is this is What game are we playing. here? I don't have time for that. Do it. on your own. I'm not asking nobody for.

invite. Nowhere. >> Where are you on streaming? >> I mean, you got to be a fan of it. Everything is streaming. >> You You done You Are we going to see Joe. Button on the stream? >> Uh, maybe. I mean, I'm not against it. I. try to do age appropriate [ __ ] It. seemed like the young people have taken. over, >> but I don't view it like that. I don't. view it like that. So, yeah. Yeah, you. may see me on there. That's not my focus. right now, but I'm I'm a fan of it. I'm. a fan of it. >> Um.

speed. I mean, he's he does a great job. cuz he all over the world. >> and he does I mean, he's a hell of an. athlete, too. I mean, you see, he can. run. He can jump. I mean, no, no, he. legit legit. >> Is that I don't know much else about. him, but he's really really really big. Uh and pause and Yeah. >> Yeah. Hell of an athlete. Hell of an. athlete. Jumping over cars. Every time. you see him, he's flipping over some. [ __ ] He's racing people. He's in great. shape. Oh, what it is to be young.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, what it is to be young. I used to. grab a hell of a rebound down at the. park. [laughter]. >> Yeah. I ain't I'm done with that. The. artist going to let me do nothing. >> Every morning there's a new ache and. creek somewhere at that some [ __ ] happen. to my elbow. You know how old you got to. be to get have something happen to your. elbow the other day. >> You ain't even do nothing. Yeah. No, I. ain't too [ __ ]. >> Just woke up the next morning and now I. hurt. >> Yeah. No, one day it's my knee. You in. there gym just doing knee [ __ ] so you. could show up like a man and have sex.

properly without catching a thigh cramp. in the middle of some [ __ ] Jesus. Are streamers are they more popular than. rappers now? >> You're such a troublemaker. You Why you. Who you trying? >> Because you because you a podcaster. You. say you about to get in the stream. >> I did not say I'm about to get in the. stream. I'm saying it's not off the. table. >> You about to get into it. >> I don't know. I don't know about that. >> Cuz guess what's on that table?

>> Well, I want to be able to. >> I I want to I want to be able to license. my show to streaming platforms always. So, >> yeah. Well, we want to be in it. We want. to be in it. >> Yeah. >> That that way we want to be in it. But, uh, are streamers more popular than. rappers? Some. >> Yeah, >> some [ __ ]. >> Yeah, >> they getting opportunities. Cons, they. let him stream the stream the award. show. >> Yes, that's unheard of. >> They let they got him at Allstar weekend. with camera rights like he.

>> was at Wasn't he? Yeah, he was at he was. at another award show. >> He's everywhere. Yeah. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Things that we thought was like these. used to be sacred. They a let nobody. scream nothing. That mean, you know, no. button up and all that. And they're like. because this where the kids are. If you. want a different set of eyeballs, these. kids. >> Well, you got to give you got to give. with the times and so so many times. we'll kick a company's back in because. they just won't update or change with.

the times. So, >> one, glad to see y'all trying to. incorporate some of these new young. fresh streamer faces in what you're. doing if you want to see success in what. you're doing. See, that's the message. >> Okay? You could have been doing this for. ages. If you don't acknowledge these. personalities and their infrastructure, you won't be here anymore. It's not them. that's leaving right somewhere. So, yeah, you got to you got to you got to. acknowledge that Kaisenet show is bigger.

than your networks. >> Yes. >> TV your linear TV networks. >> Yeah. He's getting the million cable. networks. Yes, >> this is the new This is the new late. night television. This is the new place. where the celebrity has to come and pop. in. Oh, nice place you got here. Like, this is where they're digesting this. Not over there where y'all are spending. hundreds and millions and millions and.

millions of dollars. So, don't come over. here. >> If we have an understanding of that, don't come over here now and short me, >> right? I have a clear understanding of. what position I'm in and what position. y'all in. >> Correct. >> Let's talk Let's talk nice when we come. to this table. >> Because if you see a lot a lot of these. linear television are getting these guys. to make appearances and show up at these. award shows or show up at these. basketball games because they know these. eyeballs, these young eyeballs are. watching them. And so if we want to get.

them. >> and and I don't have a problem with that. because. >> the one thing we know about kids, they. going to spend money. If they ain't got. it, their parents going to spend money. >> Sure enough, >> they going to get it one way or another. >> It's going to get got. >> that's why they keep making animations. cuz guess what? That's that's four. tickets. Mom, dad, and the kids. >> Yeah. The family cracking them. Cracking. them. your your son. Is he trying to. Isn't he trying to go to uh Screamer. University?

>> My oldest. Yeah, my oldest. My my boy. Trey. >> Yeah, apparently. Apparently. Yeah. I. learned I learned that on internet. >> You like Hey, hold on. >> He online. >> It's like a college. I mean, you try to. try to go to. >> He doing an audition. He doing he doing. an audition online. So, I mean, my kid. always puts me in a in an interesting. spot where I have to think of how I feel. as a dad versus how I felt when that was. me, >> right? >> Cuz he's always doing probably something. close to what I would have did. But as a.

dad, I'd be like, "What the are you. doing at. >> right?" Um, but yeah, he did that. He. did that online. I don't know if. somebody ever hit him back, but I like. it. I like it. >> But as long as he ain't in trouble, you. good. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's his version. Uh. that's the new version of uh Cipher. Like in in my day, I would drive around. to every hood, try to hop in a Cipher, try to rap to anybody that could hear. me. >> Today, you're trying to get on the most. popular stream so people can hear you. rap. If that's what you want to do, I. support it wholeheartedly, please.

>> How close is he to you when he was that. when you were that age? >> Uh in terms of what. >> behavior, mannerisms. >> to a tea with all of that? to a T. >> Really? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We We both love a. Crash Out. [laughter]. >> Hey. Hey. Both both a real sucker for. love at around 23 24. >> Uh but no, all of [snorts] that stuff.

down to a T. Uh. >> I thought you meant with the music. Well, and even even that he's he's. rapping. I think I got my start maybe a. little earlier than that. Right. But I'm. proud I'm proud of who he is. I'm proud. of how he thinks, how he shows up for. himself, uh, his determination, his work. ethic. It's fun. It's It's fun sitting. in this seat and watching your kids. grow. >> That's fun. >> Is it hard though, Joe? Because you got. to look at it now. He's in a very He's.

in a very different situation than what. you were in when you was that age. because you is his father who has money. I don't know if you're dead. I don't. know your situation, your social. economics when you were growing up, but. I can assume his situation is a lot. different than your situation. >> Yeah. But he's super humble cuz he. wasn't he wasn't raised that wasn't that. wasn't his upbringing. >> Okay. >> Um. cuz I didn't have it like that uh his. whole life. one, and two, that's not. that's not the his mother did a really.

good job of implementing certain rules. in the house and and raising him a. certain way. So, I got to give her all. the credit in the world for that. My My. son ain't on it like that. >> He ain't on it like that. But. >> awesome that that has changed and that. is his experience. >> Yes. >> Awesome that. And I mean I say that but. it could be tough too. It could be tough. too when when your when your dad has a.

certain name and his expectations. >> and he got that same name. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It could get tough. It. could get tough. But he's doing a good. job, man. >> How often does he come to you for. advice? >> Uh. he usually always comes to me for. advice. That's one of the things we were. pretty good at early. It's it's normally a shock for me if I. hear if I hear something. >> from him not from him, >> right? >> I'm like, "Oh, that's happening." And. and I didn't know that. I I would be.

surprised at that. We we talk, >> right? >> We talk. >> You said something very interesting. earlier. You said, you know, at this age. now that you focus on your mental health. and you know, Kasanette said something. about mental health. How important is. that for you, Joe? Because at what age. did you realize that you needed to focus. on that? Because when we're young, we. don't Well, things that we think about. now as we start to. I'm at the age where I used to think it. was old. I'm at that age now. I remember. when I was, you know, a teenager and in.

my 20s LIKE, MAN, YOU ALMOST 60. >> Now I'm almost 60. >> What a blessing. >> Hey, keep what I tell kids. Keep living. Hope. >> This is the goal. >> The goal is to age. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. At what age did you like start focusing. on your mental health? >> You know, for me, for me, I I tried I. was always pretty focused on mental. health. I just wasn't doing the greatest. at the time, mentally, spiritually,

physically, but I was always I I had to. be aware of my mental health because I I. could not live right. >> anymore if I didn't really focus on. that. So. after after a lot of years to it it got. it got in a good place and. >> you learn how important it is. It's it's. the it's the processor. It's the. motherboard. It's what makes it you. can't. you can't go there is not you can't show.

up for yourself properly. You can't live. life properly. And if you're out there. and you're struggling just give yourself. a shot for another day. Like if you're. struggling to get through the day just. give yourself a shot. Pray yourself. through it if you can. But mental health. was super important now. And today I put. the time to the side. >> Right. >> Learning how to say no was was important. in my story. >> I'm quick with a no. Hell no. And it. hard anymore. >> No, it it wasn't. It wasn't never hard. for me. But.

it felt better the more you said it. >> It felt better the more you said it. less committing to things that you that. you that's the worst. >> Committing to things that you not want. not going to do, don't want to do. >> bad. >> showing up for you to give two about. It's just like no, no, and no. Again, back to I'm trying to get in bed by. 4:30. >> Like, if I'm doing a favor for somebody. or if I'm I'm even leaving the house, there's something that I really want to.

do today. And a large part of that is. mental health. I'm not going to be. somewhere just miserable and grumpy and. unhappy around some killjoy of a person. No, no, no. I need No, not in my 40s. I. need good energy, good vibrations, high. frequency. It's important to me how. people wake up even like. >> or how people start their role in my day. in the morning. Don't for my morning. Do. not with my morning. >> Don't that's your busiest time. That's.

where you feel you you're. >> It sets the tone for my day. >> How the morning goes. is how I'm going to go and all of these. different places and people that I have. to be at and and see. >> right. >> whatever you went through the phone and. saw last night in the morning. Uh. whoever when I get home Yeah. Yeah. Whoever's calling to just argue or just. dump on you or just put heavy [ __ ] on. you. Not in my morning. You can't do. that in my morning. >> And I'm a morning guy. Yeah,

>> I'm up at 4 in the morning. >> Wow. >> Nah, don't. Nah, let me let me pace the. day. Mental health. >> Yes, >> mental health. You come first. Wow. Noted. as someone that's been in this game that. understands this game of hip hop. What. is the biggest difference, Joe, between. today, the rappers of today, and the. rappers of yesterday? To the best of. your guests?

I think motivation, what drives the what. drives people today to do it might be a. little different. Like I said, when I. signed, I wanted to be the best. >> In the '9s, there was a belief that you. probably you couldn't even get on. without being the best, >> right? >> That's not the belief anymore. That's. not the belief anymore. and and and and. it's a lot more money in it today. visibly. These kids today can pick up.

their phone and look at what's going on. all over the world and and that helps to. shape their ideas. And and in my day, we. were looking at our block or. >> what we can see. >> our [ __ ] and whatever I got from what. was going on on in another part of the. world was was from music. Like I didn't. when NWA came out, I didn't know nothing. about was going on on on the West Coast. When Scarface came out, I didn't Oh. [ __ ] All right. This was going on. That.

was hip-hop to me. Like just. regional reporting from words smmiths. >> to educate us. Today. >> you have no idea what somebody's doing. it for today, >> right? >> You have people that don't even want to. do it for a long time a day. They. they'll tell you, "Hey, I'm here for two. years and then I'm done. I'm going. somewhere." So, and I think that you can. start to hear and. >> quality at some point. >> Today, things need to be done much.

faster. It's a microwave a lot more. microwave today. A lot more processed. In the 90s, it was more made by hand. It. was more craftsmanship. I mean, that's what I notic, >> right? Rappers getting out. Fetty [ __ ]. just got out. Thug got out recently. Sh. Uh, Max Blue, Blueface, YFN, Luchi. >> Mhm. >> Joe, was it always Cuz look, I'm at a.

distance. You've been smack dab. Was was. was jail in prison and get arrested. Was. it always glorified in in hip-hop or in. the rap game? Hm. Glorified. No, I can't I can't say that. that's the hip-hop I was growing up in. Right. That. >> No, >> today they You're right. It's Well, I. don't even know if you're saying that. But today, >> it's like today it's.

>> a different stripe system that comes. from that. They playing by different. sets of rules. They doing all different. types of crimes. or at least now it's. more more visible to us. But. my mom always raised me, hey, don't go. to jail. And if you get in there, it's a. system that's in there in place just for. people like you to get there and there's. nothing I can do for you. >> Mhm. >> That was enough for me. I spent a couple.

weekends in in in a in a in a Hudson. County or wherever the I spent that that. was enough for me. If you lock me up for. a couple hours, >> that's enough for for me. So, I can't I. can't speak to. >> the clip in which people are going in. and coming out and going in and coming. out. You read that list. I couldn't tell. you who's in jail. I know when they come. home cuz we so happy. But my my message. is try your best to not go. >> Go ahead. I asked Blueface and when he.

came home they had a big celebration. I. said, "Blue, why? Why are we celebrating. that?" He's like, "Man, I came home." I. said, 'But you do know the objective is. not to go in. I said, 'Now, if you. graduating, you getting a college. degree, you graduated law school or. something like that. She He's like, "Well, if you don't celebrate me, we. come home. I don't want to come home." I. said, "But Blue, it's not the objective. is not to go.". >> Did Did Am I wrong? Am I wrong in my. assessment? You.

>> You're not You're not wrong at all. With. with all due respect, I try not to hear the things that. Blueface says. >> Well, Jonathan, he he was Jonathan that. day. >> I don't trying. >> I'm not trying to be funny either, but. like I've heard enough of his views to. understand that. Okay, he has a. different set of. >> right. >> a different set of views. >> He was Jonathan. He was Jonathan that. day. >> He could be whoever he wanted to be. I'm. just saying for me, I'm going to go with. [cough].

some other [ __ ]. But respectfully, respectfully, of. course, >> you heard um who was it? It was Savage. Somebody else said, "F the streets.". >> Um. >> Oh. And that caused quite the uprising. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But it it's going to be hard to say f. the streets when you kind of built your. reputation on being in the streets. >> I think people were confused about what. the streets meant, >> what it actually meant. >> Yeah. I think there was a lot of blurred. lines with that.

So, I just saw a lot of people doing. explanations. I saw people on one side. say, "Yeah, yeah." And I saw people. saying, "No, you if you don't like the. street." So, >> damn. >> Uh, I enjoyed seeing. I enjoy seeing success stories, especially from people that. >> moved a certain way or lived a certain. way. Like I think I think part of life. is being able to live to tell it or to. remember it or flashback or look back on. it or. >> that's a big part of life. So.

yeah, he was speaking for him. Yo, live. >> gangster is seeing seeing your kids get. old, right? >> Gangster is going to the graduation. It's seeing them get a job and seeing. them that's that's the stuff that we. should be trying to talk about really. And not to say we can't talk about the. other [ __ ]. >> right? >> But the glorification of it. No, we need. real stories about what's really going. on. I I watch the news every morning. I. told you I'm up at 4:30, >> right? >> There's not a day that goes by where.

there's not something on there that'll. just be like, "Wait, what the is going. on? Who who did what?". >> I was about to say I was about to ask. you, George, took a machete and you did. what? You killed a family. You threw a. body over here. lovers killing each. other, people killing each other ex-wife. and parents. Like if if if. >> Don't you get depressed though, Joe? >> I'm like, damn. I mean, I get depressed. I'm like, damn. Really? And I think the. thing is, Joe, because we have more.

access to more news. We didn't hear all. this stuff now. Now it's 24/7. I mean, basically, you would hear every once in. a while of a school shooting or you hear. something like this, but not every day. And maybe it was happening every day, but the social media, the internet has. made the world so close. California. doesn't seem that far away now. Yeah. >> Uh New York is not, even though we're. here, it's not that far away. So no. matter where you are, >> it's really close. >> Yeah. >> Whereas before it was so far away. You.

only dreamed of going to California. You. only dreamed of going to these places. And now they bring it right to you. >> You're absolutely right. You're. absolutely right about it. So I was like I used to do that too. I. used to read the news and I was like man. I can't. >> I'm just saying when you see all of that. [ __ ] going on like I just have a healthy. respect for life and. just trying to live. Just trying to just. trying to live period. There's too many. black people dying from age 39 to 60.

>> Yeah. >> Like I know I know the food we like to. eat. I know the places we like to go. I. know the way we like to party. Like staying alive here is tough. >> It is. And that may be depressing. So why not try to make the most out of. every day? Like why not be kind to my. fellow human? >> Why not not preach murder, kill kill, death, destruction,

drugs, yada yada yada? Because I also. believe in the power of words too. If if. you just if that's what you're saying. then it'll happen. >> That's what you manifest in. And that's. not. >> I pray that I pray that people grow out. of that. >> Right. >> I pray [snorts] we get healthier. practices. >> Yo, you married? >> No. >> You you were engaged though, right? >> I have been engaged before and I'm. happily involved now. >> Are you looking to take that next step. or are you com comfortable where you. are?

>> That's another loaded question. That's a. trick. That's a trick. A trick question, Joe. Would you like to get married? >> Hey, that's a trick question. Thank God. it's a trained ear to hear this trick. level of trick question. My baby just. hit me. Said, "I love you. Have a great. amazing interview. Tell Shannon he's. great. Kill that shit." And now you try. to load this up. How about. >> you say, "Look, you happy, but you know, I've been told that the. ultimate a man who finds a wife finds a.

good thing." getting that in THE BIBLE. WITH JOE. THEY. >> SURE SAY THAT. YEAH. [laughter]. [applause]. >> NO, I'm not afraid of marriage. I'm not. I'm not I'm not afraid of marriage. And. that's in that's in the works, I'm sure. I'm not I'm not I'm not totally against. it. I'm talking [ __ ] just cuz it's. provocative, >> but. >> yeah, I'm I'm not against it. I'm lucky. enough to find somebody who I love, that. loves me, that. >> takes care of me and all that good [ __ ]. She she's and the role she's played in. my life during this this run that I'm.

on. It's like she's my structure, my my. accountability system. She's my that's. my baby. We'll get to it. I'm not into. Russian [ __ ]. >> How difficult is it to date public? Because the thing is Joe, well, you. know, when you date public, what you got. to do if you you got to break up public. and everything? Everybody has an. opinion. Everybody is a therapist on Joe. and his relationship because it's. public. Well, Joe, hey, you we you out. here in you talk about it, blah, blah, blah. So, is it hard for you to date.

public? I mean, was it hard for you to. come out or were you cool with is you. like, you know what, baby, I want I stay. in the background. I'm cool. >> It wasn't tough for me because I I have. >> I'm different. I don't have so many. years of experience of. being public, >> okay, >> as someone with some notoriety. So, I. may be used to it in ways that could be. difficult for for other people. I'm not. going to say it's never been tough. Like, we have our moments, but for the.

most part, I'm I'm cool with it. >> Right. >> You get if if we put it on the internet, we wanted it to be on the internet. Like, I'm prepared for whatever come. whatever comes with that. >> Be solid in who you went and who you are. >> and you be cool. Let's go back to what you're great at. and that is this podcast space. How do. you go about hiring talent? How do you. how do you like Joe like, "Okay, I want. to hire this whether they going to be a. co-host or they're going to be X or.

they're going to be videographers or. they're going to be a graphic designers. or they're going to be X or they're. going to be Y." How does Joe Button. decide that? >> Uh, large part a large part of it is. chemistry. Mhm. >> I'm looking for chemistry no matter what. the title is because it's such a like I. said boutique operation. Uh so it's. going to be me calling. It's going to be. somebody next to me that's calling. We're going to speak. We're going to see. each other. It's going to be no. So how. can people work together? Uh that and.

work ethic. That and work ethic for me. Like I've. been blessed to. the people that I've hired are like. >> are as consumed as you are. >> Yeah. They they love it like me. They're. ready to work like me. These are my. guys. I've been in in in the foxhole. with these people. So it's not a whole. bunch of incorporating strangers and all. of that. But it's purely work ethic, dedication. Everybody's talented, but.

chemistry. I got good people. Remy can't. can't nothing get moving if you don't. >> Right. You learn the importance of a. team. Like back in the day in early rap. days is when you was trying to take the. whole pie and keep it to yourself. You're not trying to get a manager his. cut. You're not trying to give the. business accountant they cut. The tour. manager. You just want to pocket. everything cuz. >> well I'm doing all the work. You ain't. really doing nothing. >> You learn as you go that hire as many. people as as you can that are going to.

help you, >> right? that believe in it that. >> I guess rigor. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, and make go make more. >> Yes. >> Make more to hire these people. But. yeah, no, I got a real good real good. team. But obviously at the end of the day, you. hire a great team. Money. When you hire somebody, let's just say. you got 15 people working for Joe Butt. >> Mhm. >> Is it written in their contracts they. can't talk about what they make?

Uh yeah, because you know that that's in. there. I'm pretty sure my lawyer has that in. there. I mean, that don't mean nothing. though. Hey, if you hiring people, just. know that when they get away from you, they going to talk about what they make. Yeah, for sure. [laughter] They going to. talk about what they make. But yo, I. want everybody to to to make as much as. they can make. It just got to make. sense. >> Yes. >> It just always got to make sense. I. encourage if if if people are making. more wood that means that we're doing.

what we supposed to be doing, >> right? >> That means we're growing. So I I. encourage that. >> man. Look your talent. You brought Mark. Lamont Hill and many pe a lot of people. think because Mark is a PhD. I think. he's at what Temple of Ruckers. He's a. Temple, right? >> Temple and speaks very articulate. Says. a lot of great things. I like listening. to Mark. But when he's on your show, he. ain't on CNN. He ain't on Fox. And I. think people know him from those shows. Yeah. And so they're expecting him to be. button up. Well, you know, such and.

such. No, >> he's not. Not not at all. >> Mark didn't grind. I SAID, "HOLD ON, WAIT A MINUTE.". >> YEAH. >> Do you know they're not going to invite. you back to those spaces, right? You. stuck with Joe. >> Mark Mark is so Mark Mark has been such. a blessing to work with. And I'm not. sure if it would have worked if he was. so buttoned up. >> No, he could. No, he couldn't. >> If it was so buttoned up, I don't think. it would work. But but what he brings. and just is a wealth of knowledge is uh. professional in every sense of the word.

His humor, his dark humor, like he is a. brother from Philly. He is a brother. from Philly and he he reminds you of it. So funny thing about Mark is all that. CNN [ __ ] Mark is so controversial to me. because Mark will say what he thinks. about a plethora of topics and some of. his views like he's just controversial. to me. >> Yeah. How did you How did you know that. would work? >> I'm controversial. >> Yeah.

>> I don't run from the controversy. Did. you think that he would be cuz a lot of. times you know I don't know if you guys. uh but in linear television a lot of. time they would have like reads in in a. movie and you sit there and you say. things and sometimes people would say. things in a meeting. that red dot go on. >> There was nothing like that. I'm like. well damn. >> Well that happens. >> I I need I I need the guy that was. saying all that this and this and this. and now you get here and you like no. So. what happened? So, how did how did you.

know had have you ever. >> I'm not saying it happens with Mark. I'm. just saying that has happened. >> Oh, absolutely. Yeah. >> That's why we're I'm speaking to it. because I've been in situations where it. had h happened. But did you have a prior. relationship with Mark? Did you know. him? >> Yeah. No, me me and Mark were pretty. flying. We we were pretty flying for. quite a few years. We had never worked. so closely together. Uh but we had a. real good relationship. I think I think. we've gotten a lot closer working in. this capacity. Yeah. But he's been he's. been nothing but amazing.

>> Man, they be coming at Mark because I I. think I saw one clip where uh somebody. said, "Oh, Mark, you be trying to use. them big words." Mark like, "It's not a. big word. It's just a big word to you.". But it's not a big word. I mean, Mark, he he's slick. He He quick. He slick. with it. No. >> There's There's that part. Mark can can. weaponize his. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> His education. [laughter]. >> He's slick. Mark Mark is slick. But you. need that. You You need. >> And you be over there. you like. >> I'm a I I I love all of that [ __ ].

Again, I I love whatever people are. bringing that is going to make the [ __ ]. entertaining. And if that's dark, >> cuz at the end of the day, they're still. entertainment. >> That's the goal. That's the goal. It's. an entertainment show. So, whatever. happens on cam, long as it's. entertaining, I'm fly with it. And Mark. has been tremendous in that. >> You had a co-host leave recently, Melissa Ford. Um, there was a lot of. controversy and I think she said, you. know, all of a sudden, you know, her. voice wasn't being heard or she wasn't. being taken serious. I I don't know what.

you care to speak to that, but. did she leave because of that or were. there a negotiation where her contract. was up and, you know, money was. involved? I mean, what what goes into. that that cuz I'm sure you don't want to. lose good people cuz she was she was. good for the show. >> Um, I won't say too much about her. I. wish Mel the best in whatever she's. doing. Uh, but I we do want people to. leave. >> You do? >> Yeah. >> Oh, damn. I tried. >> We do want But we do want people to.

leave. Like I think that's that's a. misconception if that's what they think. We definitely want people to leave. >> You want them to go do their own. >> That's important. >> Okay. >> Even while even while people are with. me, I I encourage everybody to do their. own thing. >> outside of here. like please please. utilize the value and the audience and. the attention that that that this show. gives. I I want you to do that. >> So in that you want people to grow and. flourish and go get other opportunities. Again, anybody anybody that was ever on.

the show, okay, >> we want you to do that. So yeah, it's a. good uh. works is a good uh I don't want to say. launchpad, but a good uh. what's the word I'm looking for? uh not. a launch pad, >> springboard. I mean, it's a good It's a. good springboard. It's a good. springboard. It allows people to. introduce themselves and in a different. way that they. >> have, but they know from you though, JOE. THEY WANT TO SEE. >> NO, I'm talking about like like you said.

with Mark Lamar Hill, right? Like Mark. Lamar Hill, you may know him from. >> see. >> all these other places. You don't you hear you're seeing him in. a way that you're talking about a 20. year professional here. 20 plus year uh. professional. >> You've never seen him. >> No, you're not. That's. >> this way. >> You you've peeled a layer. You've. allowed people to see L Mark in a way. nobody has ever seen him or maybe his. closest friends know he talks like that. >> Exactly. Like I And I I feel like the.

show is a good opportunity for for. people to do that. And there's only but so much you can. hide. Only so much hiding you could do. talking three plus hours twice a week. >> Yeah, you're right. You talk too much. You're talking. Yo, you you go. And. that's what I tell people. The more you. talk, if you talk if you in this. business long enough and you talk long. enough, you're going to slip up. You're. going to say something. There's no. possible way. I mean, we doing night cap. four to five nights a week. I'm doing. Club Shay Shay. I was on Leonard.

television. Bro, I'm talking 20 plus. hours a week for years. Yeah. You don't. think I'm gonna have one slip? >> You're gonna say you're gonna say. something. That's why it's important for. the contract to also reflect that, hey, I might say something. I might do. something. There might be something in. life that happens. You cannot get rid of. me because I said something, >> right? One word. >> I'm not in that boat, but for the people. that are, >> right? Um there was a very highly. publicized split between uh Rory and. Maul that was on your show and they have.

their own thing doing their own thing. and a lot of people like man. this was this was Cisco and Eert. >> This was Pen and Teller. This you know. what I'm saying? This was one of those. great and like. >> I guess you old enough to remember how. me in the blue nose with Teddy P the. grass like hold on wait a MINUTE I'M. DOING ALL THE SINGING. HOW YOU AIN'T did. nothing. [laughter]. So I mean, >> but. no, but but seriously, Joe, but is it.

hard because you guys have such a great. relationship and then it ends and then. you know the the back and forth. How. hard is it for you? Because you guys, I. mean, when you work as long as you did. with someone, you build a relationship, you do things together, y'all go places, you do things, you eat, family and. friends become inter uh uh intertwined. How hard was that for you? I mean it was it was really tough in the. moment. >> like when it was happening like you got. friendships you're managing you're.

managing business people's view of the. business it was it was difficult and. then and then they left salute to those. brothers wish them nothing but the best. as well then again my faith being God. >> my faith is in a higher power at all. times so whatever is happening that's. what's supposed to be happy. >> Is that is that how you look at. everything? So you look at everything. like that. Okay. Nothing happens without. him his blessing or his plan cuz this. was his plan. >> Every everything is the doing of my.

higher power. If he putting it in front. of me, there's something that's supposed. to be happening. It's my job to figure. that out from there. I'm not sitting. around and and and and weeping at the. hand that I'm dealt. I'm I'm getting to. it. So I needed all of the education. that came from that split. Uh, it was informative. It was important for. me to get to the next place. >> that I was going and they needed to they. needed to go and do what they needed to.

do. But nobody should ever sit around. and just be like you spoke about. earlier, just come to work unhappy and. sad. And. >> did you know they were unhappy or sad? >> No, no, no, no. Not not till it was too. late. Not till it was too late. But we. we we had a set of issues. We both had a set of issues. None of us had the proper tools to. >> to deal with it. >> Deal with it and get through it at the. time. Not and remain whole. So, I mean,

happened like it had to happen. >> Have you guys been able to make peace? Have you had guys had conversation of. being cool moving forward? >> No, but I think everybody's at peace. I. don't think you always need to have. conversations to be at peace, but. everybody's at peace. Uh, I've spoken to. Rory. Rory um a couple of times. Uh he's. doing well just to say I love you. Proud. of what you're doing. But it's no it's. no hard feelings. It's peace. It's. peace. >> Joe, YOU ALWAYS BEEN LIKE this. >> or you had to grow or you had to grow to.

this level of maturity. >> Oh, do I sound mature? >> You sound very mature. >> Oh [ __ ] [laughter]. For real. Yeah. >> Oh good. Oh good. I was a menace. I was. an agent of of terror and chaos. So, this is a lot of a lot of work, a lot of. therapy, a lot of just growing up. I. listen, Shannon, like you we started. this with I've been in this [ __ ] for 27. years or however long. >> I've grown up with some of these people, right? Like these people have seen me.

What haven't you seen me do? I've I've. been wild on TV. I've been wild on. radio. I've been wild on the internet. I've been wild with fans. I've been wild. with police. I've been w I've been I've. done it, right? >> I've done it. I've done it. >> Anything there is to do, I've been. blessed enough to I've lived. I've. lived. I've traveled. Whoever you think. the baddest girl is, we did had that. run. We We did the We was moving around.

for a little bit. We lived. We lived. >> We lived when it was a night life. when. it was a scene in New York, when it was. fun, when it wasn't all this internet. hoopla [ __ ]. >> right? >> And now we're living, >> right? >> Just very differently. Just very. differently. >> For me, it was Joey and and to to hear. you say, but it but it took a lot to get. to a place where you feel people have. wronged you or taken the shots at you. and you know, you're like, you know.

what? I'mma be the bigger person. I'm. going let it walk. I'm going let it. slide. I'm going to be okay. And if I. see that person, I'm like, hey, bro, I. ain't got no hard feelings. I disagree. with what you had to say, but hey, let's. keep it. Because for me, Joe, I played. the professional sport and I understand. the opposing fan bases or I understand. the opposing team not liking me, >> but but. I didn't know so much vitriol and hate. came until I got into this.

>> I had no idea, Joe. I was so disliked by. people that that were in the business. that I was in until like really until. Cat. >> and people like people got upset like. Joe Cat comes on your show, you. introduce him, we do a read just like I. did you and he just goes, "Are you. stopping him?". >> No. People say I should have stopped. him. I said, "Hold on. when you do an.

interview, he told a story. You remember. I had I had uh Ricky Smiley on Ricky. Smiley told a story that he was. originally cast as Money Mike. >> I remember that, Joe. >> Joe, >> I do remember that. >> How am I supposed to check that? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> He's there. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm taking him at his word. >> Mhm. >> He said what he said about I was like, I. don't know any of I said, "Guys, y'all. make it seem like I'm in the comedy. space and I know this. If I'm in the rap. game, I probably know some rap beefs,

>> but I'm not in it, so I can't speak to. it. So, if somebody comes and say, "I. got a problem with or they did this," I. got to take them at their word. >> Yeah, you can't I I don't do that. either. I don't interrupt people while. they in the middle of their testimony. Even if they getting off some [ __ ]. it's their it's their [ __ ] to get. off. Now, if it happens to be [ __ ]. and we learn that and the growing. storyline is growing online, then it. then it make a lot of sense and builds. anticipation for my next episode, which. is to address why this is [ __ ] or.

have the other side come on my show and. do it that way. But no, you I I try to. let people try to let. >> Yeah, cuz you was one of the ones said I. was messy. Say you don't mess with me no. more. >> But not over that. >> No, but I I'm just trying to figure out. Help me understand messy. Well, well, how deep we going? >> No, [laughter] as as deep as. >> how deep are we going? >> As deep as your explanation need to. explain. >> Cuz I don't put when when you have I.

think that people were coming on this. show. I think after the C Williams. interview, >> yes, >> which was congratulations, >> thank you. >> But after that, I think people were. coming with a certain agenda. >> Who? >> Different different guests. I don't. think anybody came and aired anybody. out. >> I think people were coming to get some. [ __ ] off shortly after that. >> You know, I had Mo'Nique was the only. one. A lot of what Mo'Nique had said, Mo'Nique had already said.

>> Mo'Nique, the Lee Daniels, the Oprah, the Steve Harvey's, the Kevin Hart. That. wasn't the first time she said that. So, let me ask you a question. So, when. people go on Oprah's show and they tell. Oprah things that probably nobody else. knew, is Oprah messy? >> No. >> Why not? No. >> Why not? >> She's not messaging. >> Why? >> She's uh creating the space. She's. creating the space to hear something. that we've never heard before. >> So, I'm not doing that. >> You know what it came off like with you,

Shannon? I'll be honest with you, cuz. Oprah's been here for my entire life. doing [ __ ]. >> with you. I'll use the example of music. Uh sometimes when Funk Master Flex would. get on the radio and drop all these. bombs about a song, new song, new song, new song, new song, >> and not play some of the veterans music. like the veterans would feel like. >> you 50 years old, you're not getting in. your car when you off work to put on MC. little bubble like you pumping up on the.

radio. So sometimes it was coming off. like, >> okay, we know Shannon Sharp. We know. Shannon Sharp from football. I don't. think Shannon Sharp give a about some of. the mess that would come up. Some of it. But see, here's the thing for me, and. this was very strategic. And when I was. at Fox, they didn't want me to interview. a lot of the people that weren't sports. related. I said, "But in order for me to. grow this platform, I'm going to have to. interview people other than sports.".

Yes, you got that. >> So, I got to interview comedians. I got. to interview celebs. I got to interview. uh uh uh influencers in order to grow. So, plus at the end of the day, like you. said, it's entertainment. I had no idea that so many people u I. understand the uh the comedic space is. very competitive. Most era areas are. competitive, the tech space, the. whatever the space may be. But I didn't. know. >> Cat peeled it away. They got upset at me.

because Cat told his story. If you go. back and listen, Cat says, "I came here. because you allow a safe space for. people to tell their stories. >> uninterrupted.". Now, if I wanted to be messy, I can show. you some DMs. Well, let me come on and. let air this guy out. Let me tell you. about what athlete I'm messing with if I. wanted to be messy. But that ain't that. ain't what we do. I tell CJ all the. time. I say, "CJ, look at this." Nah,

we're not going there. Somebody said. this about me. I said, nah, you can go. on somebody else platform. As a matter. of fact, I said, go to Joe. I said, Joe, let you I said, but I can't. do that. So, if I was going to be messy, Joe, wouldn't I take that approach? >> [ __ ] I don't tell [clears throat] them. come to me and be messy. >> Don't tell them COME TO ME. >> YEAH. >> I LIKE TO BE MESSY behind these people's. backs. >> Hell no. I don't I don't want to just. open up the platform for that for that. type of [ __ ] And and also that to what.

you're saying, right? Like. I'm not mad at a little healthy mess. No, I don't do that. >> A little healthy mess. Oh, please. You. don't do that. If you don't knock it. off, you definitely do that. >> I don't do that. You definitely do that. >> I allow a safe space like Oprah. They. call me Oprah. They call me Bopra. >> Oprah. >> Yeah. So, listen here, Joe. Are you. trying to get married or you didn't like. what's going on? That's healthy. That is. a healthy mess. It's healthy mess. >> How was that? I was like, Joe, you have. >> it's a volleyball serve to and typically.

people be here and I had a few of these. Well, Shannon, you know what? She did. say something about marriage the other. day, but this is how I really feel. >> I give you a prime example. [laughter]. G Herbo, he came on, talked about his. girl. He said, "Man, you know what? Now. that you talking about it, hell, I'm. thinking about going home and getting on. a knee right now." What happened? Mhm. >> Congratulations.

>> Yeah. >> Too, by the way, congratulations. I. guess I was being messy with that. >> No, it can be. It can be messy. Uh. again, pardon me for a minute. >> Go ahead. You good? >> But so I I wanted to get that cuz cuz I. didn't know how to get your cuz I. >> healthy healthy healthy mess. Healthy. me. Entertaining, lighthearted. Nobody's. hurt. Just friendly. Hey. Yeah. >> Toss this up there and see what happens. Ain't nothing wrong with that. Nothing. wrong with that. >> I don't look at that mess. I just I like. to be called Oprah. I'm like I just like.

to provide a safe space. Well, and I. think the thing is Joe, the biggest. thing is is that when people come on, no. matter what has transpired in their. lives, I feel I can tell you can tell. your story without its most salacious. detail. You've been in this thing 20, 30, 40 years. Whatever your most. embarrassing moment is, we ain't got to. mention it. and you can still tell your. story and be who you are. >> That's a fact. I agree with that. >> And so that's that's I grew that a lot.

of times people like Gary Owens. I. didn't know Gary Owens was going to. share all that he said. I had no idea. And then people get mad, man. You you. made the man seem how. Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you. I'm like, >> I'm with you. >> I'M LIKE, WELL, DAMN. SO, what am I. saying? You do realize a conversation. anytime me you tell me it's say hey man. dude tried to run run me over. Oh. really? You really well I didn't get the.

guy I done I get the guy side that tried. to run you over. So theoretically that's. gossip. You say that's one side. Anytime it's. one-sided is gossip. Yeah. So in other words, Joe, what. you're saying today that anybody that. comes on a platform and the other person. that there he or she is talking about is. not there to refute or cooperate that. story. It is what? >> Gossip. >> Okay. >> Gossip.

>> Okay. That's all I wanted. That's all I. wanted. Then now y'all hear that's the. podfather talking. He been in this thing. much longer than I have. I got five. years in the game. About to be six in. July. He been in this thing for like 20. But when you go get the other side, it. could be viewed as messy. >> But that's the point. >> Just so we clear. I don't. >> Man, there's never a world in this thing. where somebody is not going to. >> allege something about you if you're.

doing this properly. >> Right. >> There there's that part. There's that. part of it, too. Like whatever model is. successful, there is somebody out there. that thinks otherwise or or has. something to say about how it's being. done. I mean, that's just a fact. >> Joe, the thing is with Cat, do you know. how long I tried to get Cat? Cuz I I I. want I wanted to get Cat a long time cuz. I thought he was Money Mike and the Pimp. Chronicles. I was like, man, it's never. going to happen because Cat he's not. going to be on this side of town and Cat.

don't like to fly. Cat take the tour. bus. No, you do. You do. See, and that's. why you got to trust God. The timing of. that, the timing of that. I had Cat. I. had Cat during COVID. Uh, and during a. movie promo where he had the publicist. standing next to him and just and and he. was still awesome, don't get me wrong. It was during co so it was via Zoom. >> Yeah. >> You had him where y'all could get to. what y'all needed to really get to, >> but I had no And the lady I'm going off. the elevator. I had never seen this lady.

before in my life, Joe. She said, "Hey, how you doing, Shannon?" I said, "Do I. know you, ma'am?" She's like, "No.". She's like, told me her name. She said, "What are you doing here?" I said, "My. attorney is here. I mean, he's been. here." Said, "I didn't know that." She. said, "Today I'm leaving. Today, my last. day of work." I said, "Oh, well, congratulations. Hope you're getting. something great." I said, "If you don't. mind me doing, what are you going to. do?" She tells me what she's going to. do. And I was like, "Man, I've been. trying to get CA for two years.". >> She said, "Oh, really? Okay. I ain't.

think nothing else about it. Left it. alone like just like that. That was a Friday. The following Friday, Cat sitting on the couch across from me. >> Now you asked me when we started, "Man, how many Q cards you got?" I had another. 30 minutes to go. I said, "Man, CJ, my producer, I said, we rap." C said, "We done?" I. was like, "Yeah, I think we got. everything." He's like, "You sure?" I.

was like, "Yeah, I'm done." He knew. He. knew what was going. >> No. Joe. So CJ looking at the back and. CJ shaking his head. I said, "Oh man, we. done messed up." I was like, "Let me. take this mic back off." I said, "What. happened?" He said, "Shon, you going to break the I said, "We out.". >> Really? >> CJ said, "We out of [laughter]. >> Joe. I know what that's like, >> Joe. I had no idea though, Joe. Cuz I. I'm sitting there and I'm I mean, >> cuz you you're in it." Yes, you in it.

Yes, >> you in it. You're in it. You don't even. know what just happened. You just. working. You got it done. >> They get to see it different. >> They're looking to see it different. >> I'm say C. He said, "No." He said, "Shannon, this going to break in." He. said, "Shannon, they going to talk about. this forever." I said, "You think so, CJ?" He said, "Yeah, >> the foresight in it, just the the the. profit he was able to be. like he. started that year off with [ __ ] that.

even if you thought that it sounded. crazy. I mean a cat is cat. Highly. highly intelligent. Well read so he know what he's saying. But even if you thought he was crazy a. little bit the way that year played out. I was like. >> oh my lord. >> Do you know how hard it was to book gap? I ain't coming on out cat. I was like, "Bro, it's. the only person I mean, the only person. was uh what's the. >> Country Wayne?". >> Country Wayne. Country Wayne said, "I'll.

come." No. >> I was like, "Okay." But you know what's. funny though? Like they always tell you. in in in in music, right? Don't go in. the studio trying to make a hit, >> right? >> Like just go be creative. >> Just be you. like and it be the song or. the session that you just made just. and that's the one to go. >> That's it. >> That's the one that's just out of here. You just had no idea. >> Well, your moment came. Pump it up.

>> Yeah, that was my my first big moment. Yeah. >> What was that moment like? Did you like. I'm here now. I'm here. >> No, I was 22. I was 22 23 years old. So, no. It was fun. I got to travel the. world and and. >> was an experience. I made made some. money, lost some money. It was a good. good contract. Not bad contract. Good. contracts somewhat. >> Well, it's hard. I mean, when you're. young to save all your money, you just.

hope you're in there long enough to to. to recoup it, but you got to buy some. stuff. Joe, you a we come from nothing. >> I was listen, I was 23. I had no idea what I was doing. I didn't. have the slightest clue about taxes. I. didn't have the slightest clue about how. to pay a ticket. I didn't have probably. a license. I had a big Hummer, no. license, just riding out places. Then I. think my business accountant took all my. money.

>> Damn. >> And then I was broke. And then all the. label heads changed and went somewhere. else. Then I never put another album. out. And then I spend it for myself for. the rest of my career. So yes, Pump It. Up was a lot of fun, but shortlived. Shortly after that, you in the trenches. >> Do you do you regret not putting out. another album? >> Well, I put out a ton of albums, just. not on. >> on a major label. >> Death Jam, right? In that system. No. Yeah. >> Yeah. No major label at that time. We. later did Slaughterhouse on on.

Innercope, which is a major label. But. at that time, No, at that time, all I. wanted was independence, >> right? >> All I wanted was independence. All I. wanted was to cut out all of these. political talking heads and execs that. don't know me or my music or don't. really care. Everybody had a different. interest other than who I was. And I. learned that at the time. So I spent. years fighting for independence to get. out of a bad recording contract, to get. out of a bad publishing contract or.

contracts that just didn't suit me or. reflect the market as time went on. It. was just all bad. So my whole career has. been a story of fighting for. independence and persevering. >> What didn't you know about the music. business? >> Anything. I didn't know I didn't know. the budget that was attached to. every [gasps and sighs]. everything in music. Recording budget, marketing budget, promo budget. I didn't. know about lawyers. I didn't know.

>> all that come out of yours. >> Oh yeah. Everything comes comes out of. yours. Everything Everything's. recoupable at this time. >> Damn. >> Because you can't get anything popping. without the labels. You can't. >> This is physical product still. People. going to the stores. >> buying albums and. >> buying [ __ ] So if you you got to you. got to store this music somewhere. You. got to. >> have your video going. You got anything. that was music at 23 years old. I didn't. know. I didn't even understand radio. You need a hit record. All right. What. is a hit record? >> Okay. What? How do you get one of those?

I didn't know who was producing what. I. didn't know [ __ ] I was from Jersey. City. I wrapped well and here I am. So, all of it was learning. All of it was. learning. I was never going to make it. I was never going to make it there, >> right? >> Because I didn't know anything. >> I have the information. So, fun times. though. >> Fun times. Everybody can't say that they. have uh. uh.

smash timeless. smash. I still hear pump it up places. today. Like I hear And when. >> when you first heard it, what did you. say? You like I made it. >> Well, when I hear it today or in recent. years or just as I've grown up, it's. like I hear 22year-old. Joe Button. I hear the guy that was a. great MC that was doing his best on this. beat that he got from Just Blaze and if.

I don't come up with something they'll. drop me from my label. Like I hear that. guy who had the world ahead of him. But. he delivered, >> right? >> He delivered. That's the important part. You asked, you called me to the plate at. 23 to hit something out the park and I. did that. So early on, that's what it. tells me today is that early on I. showcased the ability to be able to hit. one out the park. >> Well, I tell you what, I since you was. at Death Jam, give me a M Rushmore Def. Jam. >> Uh Death Jam. Uh.

>> L Cool J. >> Okay. >> Has to be L Cool J. There's a trick in this question. >> It ain't no trick. >> No, not not from you. Not from you. But. you I mean it's like with anything you. going to leave some people off. >> Run DMC was Def Jam. >> Yeah, >> there's a trick. One of the artists that. we think is Def Jam wasn't Def Jam. It's. me up that I can't remember that right. now. Uh yeah, I'm going LL Cool J.

some people. Oh, I'm doing more than four. You want me to. go ahead put you want to give you some. some. >> cuz I'm Cuz Beasty Boys I would have to. give Beasty Boys. They were there. >> If Run DMC was there, then Run DMC has. to be there. But Jay-Z and DMX have to. be there. >> Yep. Kanye's there. Rihanna's there. >> Oh, no. All of that. I don't care about. none of that. >> YOU AIN'T YOU LEAVING KANYE? >> I don't care about none of that. >> You leaving? Hold on. You leaving Kanye? >> Yeah. You said you said Mount Rushmore.

>> Yeah. >> Kanye. >> So, you got LL, you got Run DMC. >> You can't forget the forefathers. >> That's what L said. >> You can't forget the forefathers. the. people that paved the way for all these. other great people. >> LL has got to be the foundation what the. foundation is. >> He's got to be after LL care what you. do. >> LL is that that that there was a death. jam. >> Yeah. >> For the rest of. >> Yeah. He's the reason there is a death. jam. You're absolutely right on that. >> Yeah. After him, I don't care. >> Who's your favorite artist today?

>> Who Joe Button listen to. >> Oh, I'm R&B head. >> Oh, so no more. >> I'm R&B head. So I listen to all R&B. any anybody that's making R&B music I'm. listening. >> really. >> whether it be current whether it be some. oldies. >> that's all I am. >> think I was just. >> I'm on the grooves on serious that's all. I listen to. >> yeah I'm doing Jones Carl Thomas after. seven I've been on a Ralph Tres band. kick lately Tony Braxton Anita Baker. Bryson Tiller Chris Brown Loy being.

there um who else I could go on forever. anything R&B I listen to. >> okay Okay, [laughter]. man. You've been very open about the the the. progression of how wild and maybe. reckless or crazy you were in your. younger years. And you mentioned a lot. of that had to do with drugs and things. of that nature. >> When did you come to that realization. like, man, Joe, I got to change or this is not going to.

end well for me? What was what was that? What was that. moment? >> Uh, well, I have had that moment a few. times in my life. So, which time? The first time? Yes. The. very first time? >> No, you know what? You don't have to. give me the first time. What was it. about this last time that made it stick? >> This last time was um.

the perk epidemic. This last time was when. the doctors were writing all these slips. in the hospitals and prescribing the. perks and people were getting hooked on. them. Perks and oxies. >> Mhm. >> They did uh. >> damn what's the TV show they did about. it. I don't remember right now. Not. dopesick, but the Sackler family. The. Sackler family. >> Yeah. >> I went to the hospital around 2008, 2009. with what I understood to be a issue.

with my hand. Uh that turned into. something bigger than we thought. They. prescribed me with medicine. Perks were. on that list. And when I left the. hospital, I was hooked to perks. I was. addicted to percoetses and oxycottton. >> Mhm. >> And was able to get them on the street. level in bulk. >> Damn. >> Oh yeah. My Altoy case would be rocking.

I didn't I didn't I didn't I didn't. leave home with less than 40 pills on. me. >> What? >> 30s, too. Big boy. So, I didn't leave. home without them just in case you. bumped into a party. >> Your but you do that long enough, your. body starts to become almost dependent. on it. >> Mhm. >> And if you get off it or try to get off. it, you'll start going through these. really deep and intense withdrawals, cold sweats at night. I I couldn't I. couldn't live like that. I couldn't live.

like that. I was I was killing myself. slowly but surely. I thank God every day. that I experienced that at the time that. I did because that was before fentanyl. >> and. what fentanol is out here doing and how. undetectable it is. Unless you're out. there actually testing every drug that. you take. The pill head that I was, I. would have killed myself. >> Yeah. Cuz no doubt about it. I'd have. been dead. >> just like that.

>> And you just woke up one day and like, you know what, that's it. >> I mean, I don't want to say it like I. woke up one day like I just had all the. this uh self-control. I had u. I had people my parents instrumental in. that. my my friend group, my everybody. in my life was really instrumental in. weaning me off of that stuff. And it. wasn't overnight. It wasn't it was it it. was a struggle indeed.

>> But again, I thank God it happened back. then and not not now, >> right? Did you go to rehab? >> No, I didn't. >> I mean, I've been before in my life, but. not for uh. >> perks. again this perk [ __ ] I'm talking. about 200 and whatever years I just said. eight n 10 like. in 2008 n 10 I'm a rapper. >> Yeah. >> Like. I wasn't one of those uh you know how. the white people are able the white.

people are able to they they got some. [ __ ] going on. Hey, I'm going into this. two week facility. Yeah. And then. [clears throat] they come out. No, that. wasn't our bag. We couldn't if I went. away somewhere, bills ain't getting. paid. >> Yeah. >> And I'm famous. And at the time, your. pill addiction is taboo to even discuss. out there because all of us are zombies. moving around. So, no, we all needed we. all needed to uh get educated on what. that was doing. >> Um, I read you [clears throat] tried a. Zimpic for a week and couldn't eat or.

poop for a week. >> I'm on it right now. >> Damn. >> And notic. I'm on I'm on zap. >> trying zap time. >> I'm on zap bound. >> Zapbound. This is my What's today? What. today? >> T Oh, Monday. >> Today Monday. my second week. >> This is my second week. Well, no. This. week we'll start my third week. >> I love it. >> You notice a difference? >> Pretty good. Between what? >> Oh, do I notice a difference? >> No, there's a difference. I told you I.

was trying to get dressed and put. something on to come here and I couldn't. I couldn't fit and [ __ ] I didn't lo I. lost a lot of weight. >> How much weight do you think you've. lost? >> I I'm I'm sure I'm less than 220 lbs. right now. And I when I. >> But my weight loss started before I. started taking the Zap, right? I did. some dietary changes. >> Um I did some dietary changes. I added. some things to my workout routine. And. for December, I was like, you know what? We're going to rock and roll. So I was.

losing weight already, >> right? >> This was just supposed to be like a. extra oomph. the booth, the basket. >> Yeah, that's just all it was supposed to. be. And I'm probably under 220 right. now. Was over 240. Really? Back then? Yeah. >> So, so what's ideal weight for Joe? You. want to try to get under 200, 210, 250? >> No, no, no. I'd like to walk around at. probably if I'm 220 right now, I'd like. to I could see between 210 and 215. >> I still I I don't Anything less than. that, I wouldn't feel comfortable being.

out outside just in case something got. to go on. >> You done got too big. You got to run, not Joe. [laughter]. >> I got you. >> You got You got to run. You got. >> I I can't run. I just walk face. >> Yeah, I'm not running. I told you my. knees something happened, man. But. >> yeah. Yeah. 210 210 to 215 would be a. good walkound weight. >> But yeah, look at y'all. Y'all done told. Shannon about the zent. >> No. >> No. I But look, I I look I I I I know. about it. >> You on it? >> No. >> I got to ask. You look good to be your.

age. 57 beat 58. >> No, I still work out. Not like I used. to. Not like I used to. But then hold. on. But oh, you know what? Now I. remember. That's why you got in trouble. cuz you made a joke on your show about. about Zipic. That Zipic. >> What? >> By uh your former co-host. >> No, you know what happened? You so you. so good. THIS [clears throat]. >> I'M JUST SAYING YOU DID. YOU GOT IN. TROUBLE, JOE. I REMEMBER. >> YOU. YOU YOU so yo, this guy is good at. what he does. I I ain't going to lie to.

you. This is what This is what happened. What you talking about? I was getting on. a a co-host. for. hiding it. >> Yeah. >> Not doing it. I didn't even have enough. understanding of what it was. I just. felt like if you're doing this and this. is all the rave out in the street and. everybody's doing it, then come in here. and tell us about it. Let's let's talk. about it. Don't be so like. >> Yeah. So, it wasn't for. >> But people don't want you to know.

People just want you to think they going. to the gym, they eating right. They. don't want you to think that they. getting a help. >> If I'm watching you go in another room. with throwing up and [laughter] cramps. and whatever you're doing, then it's. like, okay, something's going on over. there. >> So, yeah. But I get people want to keep. it secret. >> I'm not I'm not mad at that. Not me. My. my whole life I'm I'm with just telling. it like it is. If I'm on it, you're. going to hear about it from me. >> So, are you working out also? >> I've been working out. Yeah. >> Yeah. I've been working out. >> Eating right. You eat properly.

>> Yes. I'm as health I'm the healthiest. right this second that I've probably. ever been lifestyle-wise. >> Wow. >> Lifestyle-wise. And these are from these. are from Listen, man. I'm not. We have lost too many people for me to I. encourage. >> the people listening. Go get all of that. [ __ ] done. All of it. It's annoying. I. know. I I almost stopped the full body. MRI right at the tail end of it. Let me.

out this little tight ass machine. But. no, you got to do it. Get the heart get. the heart scan. I don't want to sound. like I'm preaching, but it's just that. important. There's too many people. dropping debt. >> Yeah. >> Get get a scan all that [ __ ]. >> Yeah. No. What all for what? What. insurance cost? I get everything done. >> That's what I'm saying. >> I Hey, I mean my deductible probably. first month of the year. >> Yeah. >> I get everything done, dog. >> It's that important. >> It is. It's that important. >> You mentioned your basketball that you. like to play basketball. You done with. basketball? Your knee bad? >> No, that was many, many, many years ago.

Many years ago. I'm done with. basketball. Last year, we we just for. recreation, we went and had a basketball. game, rented out some gym in Jersey. I. went out there and made a complete fool. of myself. That was actually the start. of me saying, you know what? We got to. make some lifestyle changes. If I can't get out here and score a. bucket in 21 without huffing and. puffing, then we got to make some. changes. >> Well, Joe, you can't be a part of the. podcast wars then. I'm sorry. >> No, no, no, I can't. No, I can't. I.

mean, we. >> they these is professional ath y'all are. professional athletes. >> X X. >> [ __ ] you've been doing this all. this. Nah, nah, no, no, no. >> I was like, you know, hey, sir. >> Cuz we mentioned a couple of pods. I was. like, you know what? We got to get Joe. Bud under this thing too. You know. >> the pods. >> It was a us. It was McAfee pivot. All. the smoke. >> 520. >> 520.

>> 520. >> Yeah. So all of the athletes. Y'all can. have that. >> Hold on. >> I'm sure somebody on the set was an. athlete at one point in time. Maybe not. professional. >> We Listen. And if y'all need people to. commentate or if y'all just need some. some extra support on the sideline, then. please feel free. >> We got other thing. Look, we got table. tennis. Can you shoot pool? >> You know, you know, no, not not the. >> Oh, damn Joe. >> You know what I could do that all the. famous celebrity people just never seem.

to they just seem to run for me every. time I say it. >> What? >> So maybe I could talk some shitty. I. can't find a good spade game anymore. Now, now you know. >> I can't find it. I can't find. >> it. >> I'm a spadologist. >> Oh my. See, and and this is part of why. And this is part of why. Tell me. somebody went to an H.B.C.U. that can't. play spades though. >> See, and this is the this is the thing. >> I got a PhD. >> A lot of people went to H.B.CU. This is. the thing about spades. Simple rules. So, everybody knows how to.

play the game of spades. >> Everybody don't play. spades. >> I just want to know how you play. Any. any way you want to play. >> Big joker, little joker, ace king or big. big joker, little joker, deuce or. diamond do how we play it. >> Any way in the world. >> But see that what I'm see. >> joker joker deuce deuce joker joker ace. king. >> That's what I'm talking about. >> Ace down. We could do ace checks. We. could do [laughter]. >> that's. >> I just don't play kindergarten spades. I. don't play Well, I normally don't play. for free cuz I'm great. But if I'mma.

play for free, I'm not doing the blinds. and the bags and the. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, so you Oh, you don't want. to count. You're not counting the overs. cuz if you get so many over, you get set. back under. >> Well, well, well, no, because if if I'm. not playing for free, if you don't get. them, you don't bid them, you don't get. them, >> right? >> If you have a hand and you sitting there. playing for enough money, you are going. to want to bid them. There's no. incentive to not bid your hand in the. non-free game like only with the. amateurs. You sitting there, I got two.

>> Yeah, I like I like. >> I make seven. It's like I didn't see. these. >> Yeah. Well, I like the sandbag. And then. cuz I cuz I know what you going to say, man. You had all those bid your hand. Don't bid mine. >> Yeah. But see, most times, but also most. times it's 10 books, 10 books or less. books made. So 55 books made, 64 books. made. So if somebody is sandbagging then. we just going to keep sitting here. >> No, I'm just trying to say. >> All right. What you got? All right. We.

going board. What you do? Oh, y'all. going to board. Oh. All right. >> Oh, you go. No, no, no, no, no. You go. bored. I'm trying to I'm not going to even let. you get bored. >> But if you don't bid him. >> That's okay. I just want you to go back. >> You got a partner? [clears throat] Cuz. you got some money, too. I I'd love. >> I'd love to come over here and take a. few of your. >> I play we play individual spades. You. ever played it like that? Tell me more. >> Shuffle the cards. Pull a card. If you. like it, you keep it. Turn the other one. face down.

>> No, I've never heard of that. >> I've heard of contracts made where where. two people are seated here and my. partner is not there, but we're going to. put the hand face up and everybody can. see it and I'm going to play both hands. I've heard of that. No. >> See, we play like a lot of times you. ain't got no you don't have no partner. It's just me versus you. So, we gonna. shuffle the cards. I got a ace of. diamond. I'm gonna keep that. I don't. look at the next card. I turn it face. down. So, I don't know what that is. That could have been a. >> I have played this. I'm I 100% have.

played this. Yeah, >> I knew it sounded a little familiar. I. played this. I played this. >> Well, that get interesting cuz he's. like, "Damn, does he have the ace of. diamond?" Damn. >> Well, if there's ever a time where you. are in the tri-state area, >> who your partner? >> My dad. >> Oh, yeah. I beat the brakes off y'all. Me and my homeboy Burns. I I come up. here just to beat beat beat beat beat. beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat. beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat. the brakes off you. >> We've won tournaments. We got got. trophies. We We've been doing it. If you. ask See that I don't want you to leave. here ask about us and then I don't hear. from you because if you ask enough.

people somebody's going to tell you. >> Oh, you got the trophy. >> We both got trophy. >> Well, I'm going come get it. >> We both you had a trophy. I'm going come. get it. You You got it. You I'm glad I. just needed to know who had it. >> Yeah. Well, you come on. You come and. get it then. Goddamn it. [laughter]. Let's get out of sports. Jets or Giants? >> I'm a Giants fan. I'm not a anything. Nets, Mets, Jets. >> So, Yankees, Giants, Knicks. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yes, sir.

>> It's been It's been It's been It's been. a struggle for you guys lately, man. >> Which guys? >> Which which guys? >> Giants, Knicks, [laughter] Yankees. >> Oh, all of us. >> Yeah. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not. true. But you first of all, were you. alive when the Knicks won last won the. championship? >> No, I wasn't alive. >> Okay. >> The Giants, it's been 200 what 10? 2010. That's been 15 years. >> Okay. >> Uh the Yankees has been 2009. >> Mhm. >> So, it's been a while, y'all. Y It's.

been a while. >> Damn. Has it been 09? >> Yeah. You sure about that? >> I'm positive. >> Okay. Well, I was there for it. But it's. all right. What does that mean? I mean, y'all got to you going to have a new You. going to have a new head coach at the. Giants? Who you want? You want Harbaugh? >> Yeah. Yeah. Out of the out of the guys. that have been presented. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'll take Harro. >> He's asking for a lot, but. >> Yeah. Y'all got it. >> I'll take them. Listen, I can't even be mad. I can't believe the.

Giants won those last two games of the. season. >> It mess y'all up and getting mess draft. >> I mean, we we do it every year. We do it. every year. So, I'm not I'm not going to. cry over Mill. I just want them to get. get a good draft pick. Get a good draft. pick. >> Where are you on AI? >> Uh the use of it. >> Yeah. >> Uh I think it will be very helpful and. it's going to eventually change the. world. It's going to be get down or lay. down. Either you learn it or be left. behind. I'm not with uh. >> using your image and stuff voices and. stuff like that. Huh. >> Yeah. I think the laws will have to.

update so people's likeness can continue. to be protected. See, I'm not with that. It's so new. So, I'm with the concept, but it has to be sort of I'm not with. >> AI being able to take dead black dead. celebrities, >> make something or sell something and not. have to. >> and they don't [clears throat] have to b. they don't get. >> Yeah. No, I'm not I'm not with that. I'm. not with that. So, it just need to be. sorted out. But, can it be a really. positive tool? I think it can. I think. it will be. >> Right.

>> Have rappers reached out to you about. starting a podcast since you've been at. this thing for so long and you're so. successful at it? Yeah, they have they. have all the time podcast I mean not not. podcast the rappers reached out all the. time to get some information see if they. should start what they should do get. some advice. I don't gatekeeping I don't get keeping. >> I don't get keep it when the phone ring. what you want to talk about but I'm h. I'm happy to see a lot of people. thriving in the space especially rappers. >> you you're like I am but I tell her man.

I I ain't really trying to work like you. be working man you on every. >> Well then you should talk to somebody. that [laughter]. >> well then you say. >> but you get that but I know you get it. too. >> people won't say that to me. >> that's what they say man you work man I. see you on all the time I mean you and. oo on four five nights a week you doing. club sh I'm like bro I mean. >> yo if you ain't down to work then what. what conversation what are we starting. this conversation with. >> and pl and what I tell them though plus.

because we're kind of like like four. nights four or five nights a week you. know sporting events happen on the. weekend you No sporting events are. played on the holidays. Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year. >> I said, "You do understand that, right?". >> Nighttime. >> Yes. >> Mhm. >> Man, what kind of life? I said, "Well, those are sacrifices that you have to. make. I mean, you I can assure you. before Amazon became Amazon, Jeff Bezos. was working weekends and on holidays.". >> Sure enough. Sure enough. Whoever the. biggest person, whatever what it is, whatever genre it is, I guarantee you.

they had to make sacrifices at some. point in time before they could say, "You know what? No, I'm off this. Christmas." But I can't lie to you. I've. grown I've grown to appreciate the fact. that everybody's not like that. Actually, I've come to love the fact. that everybody's not like that. I love. the separation that it creates. Like, I. do. I love the fact that. >> everyone's engine and hardwire is just.

>> not wired like that. >> Yeah. It it it it creates a very clear. separation between. >> those that do and those that will not. and everybody Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> But people wonder why. But Joe, you know. what? People ask, "Well, man, why is. such and such so good? Why is he so. great? having the success that I've been able. to have. You think LeBron and Tom Brady. and all those guys. Think about the.

sacrifices to be that great for that. long. What that entails? >> Yeah. >> To do what you've done in this space for. as long as you have. That is a. sacrifice. But people always talk about. what what goals. I'm sure you like what. goals. But I always ask, okay, you wrote. down your goals on the left side. On the. right side, did you write down the. sacrifices that you're willing to make. to reach said goals? Nobody want to. write down the sacrifices, which is.

working on the weekends, working at. night, working extra, working, you know, we we've gone Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, going Tuesday, off Wednesday again, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday. Man, that's too much. >> Okay. Well, I don't know what you want. me to tell you. >> Mhm. Listen, everybody want to own some. [ __ ] until it's time to own some [ __ ]. >> Yes. >> Everybody want to be successful until. they find out what it looks like to be. successful. Like, and that's that's the.

grind of it. >> I love all of this [ __ ] though. See, man, that's what I mean just about being. passionate. >> Yes. >> No, >> you love what you do. So, you don't look. at it as work. You don't look at it as a. job. >> I'm showing up for this [ __ ] And if I. don't know it, never did it, then we're. going to do it that way. But I love it. too much. I'm I'm with all the [ __ ]. that comes with it. >> What would a 20-year-old tell the. 30-year-old Joe? >> What would a 20 year old. tell 30y old Joe?

>> Mhm. >> And then I'm going to ask what the 30-y. old and the 40, what's the 40 going to. tell the 50? >> [ __ ] What was going on when I was 30? And I wasn't too long ago at 20. I. didn't have too much information. even about myself. So I would have been limited in what I. could share with with my older self. At. 20, I was just I would have let my older.

self hear a verse. I would have wrapped. for my 30year-old self is what I would. have done. And I would have hoped that. he was able to hear some talent and pull. something from it, right? But I didn't. know how to do [ __ ] But but rapping at. 20 years old, I didn't have nothing to. offer nobody. I I left school. I was. getting my information from real life. experience from the streets from just. alternative means and measures. Right.

>> So yeah, I didn't have nothing I could. offer. No. >> Then you turned 30. Oh, now when I turned 30, that was a. peak depression. >> Damn. Peak depression. 30 years old. >> You weren't where you wanted to be in. life or things? >> Nowhere and absolutely nowhere near it. Nowhere near it. I was just doing what I. loved and doing all I knew how to do to. stay alive, which was make music still. >> But by 30, I had already I'm already up. from my music business trauma. My first.

few relationships trauma. I don't have. no money at 30. Uh I'm I'm just. partying. I'm just partying and and. drugging. Yeah. I think that Yeah. >> Well, you was glad to get out of your. 30s, hit the 40s, but now you're in your. 40s. >> Well, by 35 by 34, 35, I was like, you. know what? Am I going to make it to 40. >> and I should prep for it, right? like.

>> what do I want my 40s to look like and. this whatever we've been doing ain't the. route. So like let's start gearing up. for that. I think that's the mistake a. lot of people make. They wait they're. way too long. It was 3435 when I was. like what's going on in my 40s. The same. way right now I'm 45. I'll be 46 in. August. But right now I'm like what do I. want my 50s to look like? Okay. So I. should build I should start build the. house now. Buy the lot now. Do you got. to prep for it? You got to prep for it. What would my 30-year-old self have told.

my 40year-old self? Probably just, do you want to get high? Again, nothing of substance. Nothing of. no substance. Still trying to find. myself. It wasn't. wasn't until now where I'd be able to. give somebody some advice. When you drive, you say you don't drive, but when you're sitting in your your car. and your driver is driving you to and. from, let's just say he's driving you. back home from work and you're sitting. in your back of your car and you're. probably just looking out the window.

What's going through Joe's head? H. everything. I don't turn my brain off. Work [ __ ] relationship with I mean. relationship stuff, parenting stuff, both sides with my kids and with my. parents. Mhm. >> Uh and the workload I probably Yeah. Probably 70% 75% of my. my uh brain power is just focused on. work.

just work. >> cuz you have to you come in the city to. shoot the show. >> Hell no. I don't come to city. You. crazy. >> I came in the city to do this sit down. with you. I appreciate that. >> I don't I don't just rush to come to no. damn city. I'm a Jersey head. >> Oh, your studio's in Jersey. >> I'm in New Jersey. >> Okay. And I live in New Jersey, so I'm. I'm I don't come here. >> Yeah, you don't have to. If I don't. absolutely have to come. >> Yeah, I'm not I'm not I'm not coming. I. was shocked on the way over here. Like, damn, all this construction, you know, tell me about it. I was like, oh, they're doing a lot of work. I used to I.

used to work in New York for for a. decade and coming up here like I don't. miss. >> No, it's a nightmare, >> man. Coming coming from the airport, whether it's LaGuardia or JFK is an. effing nightmare. >> Yeah. Then you a slave to like traffic. times. >> Slave to traffic times. Is there any a. good time for traffic? >> Yeah, but this just be traffic when you. don't expect. It was 30 minutes to get. two blocks, three blocks. I'm like, thank God I'm early, >> you know. I'm a Jersey boy. We record. over. >> late night.

>> Were you interested into a late night? >> Uh, interested. And. there was a time I could have seen. myself doing it. I think the medium, like I said, is different now. So, >> you know, that's that's streaming. That's that's streaming now. But would I. have done it? Could I have done it? Yeah. Yeah. >> Definitely. >> What's the future in media? >> You you like to say you like to look at. thing in blocks. Five 10 year blocks. 5. years 10 years from now. What are we. what are what are we talking about? What. are we doing? >> Uh in 5 to 10 years,

one or some of these companies that we. view as a behemoth in the space will be. insignificant and obsolete in 5 to 10. years if not more than that. >> Wow. if not more than that. I see the. personalities continuing to take over. There'll be some smaller companies that. just make the right decisions with with. paired with personalities. >> Yeah, correct. >> Uh. and there'll be a [snorts] lot of.

success there. Uh what else do I see in. 5 to 10 years? >> I see growth. I see growth for for for. media for the media space and all around. growth. I'm talking about an audience. Um, financially, it's all about how things will be. consumed in 5 to 10 years really. I. mean, that's the race. That's the race. That's what everybody's fighting for. And data, eyes, ears, data, and.

consumption. That's that's that's it. >> Anything you want to promote? Anything. you got going on you want to tell the. audience about? >> Not not at all. Uh, check out the Joe. Button podcast. Uh, subscribe to the. Patreon. All the [ __ ] that Shannon. promotes. It's the same [ __ ] You heard. him say it. You heard one person say it, everybody done said it. >> How often is What days is the Joe Button. podcast? What days can they find it? >> Uh, we drop four times a week on. Patreon. So, we drop Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday. Uh, depending on.

how we feel. It could be bonus content. throughout throughout the other days. We. try to drop as much as we can. So, subscribe to the Patreon. Uh, at Joe. Button, check out the podcast. Shannon, again, thank you for having me. This was. amazing. Uh, >> Podfather Joe Buddton. [applause]. >> All my life been grinding all my life. Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price, want. a slice, got to roll a dice. That's why.

all my life I've been grinding all my. life. All my life been grinding all my life. Sacrifice hustle [music] paid the price. Want a slice. Got to roll a dice. All my. life I' been grinding all my life.