Isiah Thomas FULL EPISODE | EPISODE 8 | CLUB SHAY SHAY

hello welcome to club shay shea i am. your host i'm also the proprietor club. shay shade the guy that's on my show. that stopped by a few minutes today. is a 12-time all-star two-time all-star. mvp. he's a finals mvp a two-time champion a. national champion. most outstanding player in college one. of the 50 greatest players in nba. history. isaiah thomas all my life been grinding. all my life. sacrifice hustle pay the price wanna. slice. got to roll the dice that's why all my.

life i've been grinding all my life look. all my life been running all my life. sacrifice. plus we'll pay the price wanna slice got. to roll the dice that's why. all my life i've been grinding all my. life. [Music]. isaiah how are you today i am good. brother and thanks for. having me on your show thanks for coming. on in all my years i've known you isaiah. i've never. not seen you in a suit do you want a. jeans do you wear shorts do you wear. anything other than suits.

uh you know what one time one time. i remember i went to do a we did a. little thing at nba tv that open court. set. okay well that's all to come casual. right so i put on jeans and a shirt. and steve smith grabbed me right he goes. no. no no you you always wear a jacket. so this this is like this is like my. grade school catholic boy. okay isaiah you grew up on the west side.

of chicago. nine brothers and sisters obviously. normally when families come from big. families like that the parents are very. disciplined very strict. how was your upbringing in chicago uh. just as you just described it uh. my my family um you know six brothers. two sisters uh we were a big family. mom and dad were uh very uh. you i guess you would say strict uh but. you know when we when we talk about. being strict and disciplinarians.

uh at that age they're only telling you. to do the right things. right you know when you're young and. you're teenagers you always want to be. off. the beaten track and and they just had a. way of keeping you. uh on the right track giving you. positive messages. and even though we were extremely poor. uh you know there was that poverty line. and then there was a line below poverty. we were there. right but you know a couple of times we. were homeless set out. you know living from just place to place. but when i look back on.

on growing up and how we lived uh. somehow my mom and my dad always found a. way. to to make a smile uh with a song. or or do something just to take your. mind off the pain that you was really. going through. so i give them a lot of credit for just. i don't know how they navigated us uh. you know through the path that we were. we were on at that time. uh but somehow they they did it and made. sure that. you know i got through isaiah you.

mentioned you have nine brothers. it's nine of you guys you're the. youngest of the nine. so how would your parents were your. parents like i'm talking about. the difference between i think the thing. is you grew up in the 60s early 70s. and i know what strict back then meant. as opposed to what strict is now. there are two different types of strict. there are strict in the 60s and 70s. and they're strictly in the 21st century. so those are different so. explain to our viewer listeners and. viewers what street meant. to you growing up back then um it it.

meant. really just there was a there was a. respect. for your elders that you always had to. give. yes it was always mr and mrs. yes sir no sir yes ma'am. no ma'am it was never hey betty how you. doing. and and just that that that that type of. respect in terms of. dignity for yourself dignity for your.

fellow. man or person that you were dealing with. that's what i mean by. by strict and in terms of being. disciplined. uh you know the the way child rearing. was back then. and the way it is now are two totally. different things i mean you're going to. jail now for what they did back then. yeah. my my mom right now she would not be. looked at. uh you know in in loving eyes right. out and nowadays as she was back then. right. you know i i would i would say um you.

know. the the way the way things were and the. way we had to. come through to survive has she not been. able to corral us all. in and keep us focused on education keep. us focused on doing the right things. and even though she only had a third. grade education herself. she always made sure that somehow we we. had. a meal uh and. you know sometimes we would have to beg. and uh i remember one time. we were standing in uh the food line.

um and you know you when you're standing. in the. back then you just call it the soup line. okay standing in the soup line. and we had just got out of school and so. at four o'clock. we standing in the soup line and kids. still coming from school. and i never forget this little boy. walked by and he was teasing me. and i tried to get out of line to get. them man my mother snatched me so hard. she left me so hard put me back in line.

because you know if you lose your. your place in line you got to go all the. way back to the back. yeah so and i never forget she snatched. me so hard but you know when she. snatched me you know how they snatch you. by your ear. they pull you back in yes yeah yeah. so but isaiah as you mentioned it was. yes sir no sir. yes ma'am no ma'am that just wasn't for. your your parents. that was for anybody of age that you had. to show the ultimate respect towards. yes had to show the ultimate respect for. them and then when an older person.

that's older than you yes coming down. the street. you had to stop let them walk by and. and and keep going and and i grew up in. some i grew up in. the roughest neighborhood on the west. side of chicago that you can imagine. but that type of respect for your elders. and people who were older than you. that was always there and to a certain. extent it's still there a little bit. today. isaiah you growing up west side of. chicago. what did you obviously that's not i mean.

how your parents were you like i want. something better than this. obviously you had to imagine that there. was something better than this. that on the west side of chicago so how. did your upbringing. help you like i can get i need to get up. out of here. and i can get out of here you know. that's what sports. kicked in so being being involved in. sport. uh allowed me to be on a travel team. okay you can go outside of your your.

your four block radius that we all. were confined to uh you would you would. travel. outside of that you know with your team. and you would get to see. other communities right not only would. you get to see other communities you. would meet other people. and you would see that there's a. different way of life. other than what you saw on television. you know it's a different way of life. because you saw it on television but. you didn't know that it was maybe five. miles away from you. right and and that that allowed you to. think.

think bigger that allowed you to aspire. to be. more but a lot of that really you know. it it comes back to you know the. messages that's being. uh reverberated in your household about. hey you know. this isn't the last stop and the only. way we were. we would talk the only way you're going. to get out of here is not with this. basketball. but with these books right without these. books. you can't play with this basketball. right because they went hand in hand.

and and shannon you remember when we. were growing up hey the bad guys. couldn't be on the team right you know i. mean. one no such thing as oh he can give me. 20 points and 10 rebounds. nah guy but we'll put up with it no no. no no no. the the the bad guys you know in terms. of your personality. your personhood as a teammate can you. can you be with this. group but if you were a bad person right. you got kicked off the team and they. didn't care how many points and rebounds.

you can get. nowadays the bad guy can be on the team. right which is which is different than. the way we grow. so did you really okay you're good at. basketball you're on the traveling team. did you feel that this was going to be. your opportunity this was going to be. your way out. this was a way that isaiah was going to. take care of his family and his. and the family that he grew up with no. so when. you know the narrative the narrative. around uh us as. as professional uh basketball players is.

that we grew up. wanting to be nba players you know the. nfl. was on television right nba one no. television no. it was not no so so when i was growing. up it was never like. oh the nba dream you're gonna make all. this money. because there would that wasn't there. for us even though you knew it was an. nba it wasn't like you know the nfl. right and and so all my goals were. geared towards.

law school trying to go to law school. trying to be a lawyer. come back to the community you know be a. criminal defense lawyer help. you know help my community that that's. where. everything was geared towards now then. you know as basketball started to get. more popular. and i was looked at as a good basketball. player. you know then you got scholarships and. everything else but that wasn't the. childhood dream because it wasn't on. television. as a matter of fact i dreamed more about. playing football than that.

because i as you mentioned only the game. of only the game of the week. was live and even the nba finals magic. johnson's nba first year in the uh the. championship. that was tape delayed people think oh. basketball's been this. this this behemoth all these years no it. wasn't finals were tape delayed. they were played and then you could you. already knew who won but you watched it. anyway because you wanted to see the. game. exactly exactly you know the behemoth. has always been an nfl. yes and and that the nfl.

has uh you know in spite even though we. play basketball and that's why you see a. lot of basketball players now still. you know gravitate to football because. right oh football to me. it it is the sport in terms of. okay everything is real you know it. and everything's about you know being in. your position. working together as a team and if you. don't do your job. as a left tackle or right tackle or a. guard or a sinner. somebody getting hurt right.

somebody get right so you know if if we. don't do all jobs on the basketball. court. okay you there may be a turnover. somebody you know. somebody gets scored on but but in. football really. if that person doesn't do his job. somebody is going to get hurt so the. trust. that you that you build on the football. team that you play with as teammates. hey that that's that's different than. than you know what you have.

on the basketball team and that's why i. always gravitated if you look at all my. teams. right that i played on and that i was. captain of we always. played with a football mentality right. you know the bad boys the detroit. pistons. we were wearing football jerseys the ray. y'all took the raiders. yeah that that's that's what we. we brought a football mentality the. basketball and people think it was a. physicality. but it wasn't a physicality it was a. mentality in terms of trust. people coming together taking care of.

each other and looking out for each. other. so you're growing up you're undersized. so who are some. when you're growing up who are some of. the nba stars that you like. okay i kind of like him i like his game. i can. well it's not a whole lot on but you. heard about guys there anybody that. you wanted to be like you idolized they. were all in my neighborhood. and my older brothers and again you. gotta remember it wasn't on television. right so we we you know up until.

i guess i guess 1980 about. 1980 1979 that's when the nba started. getting on television but i was a senior. you know senior freshman in high school. right then you're a freshman in college. right so. uh growing up i always wanted to be like. guys in the neighborhood you always. updated somebody's move my older brother. i. always tried to imitate him still a lot. of his moves. and then there was a guy by the name of.

sam puckett uh who. actually was my brother's rival at. another school. okay i tried to imitate some of his game. too. so come obviously coming from chicago i. mean normally when you hear about. basketball players you hear about. chicago you hear about. new york you hear about the big cities. so. you go to indiana what was the thought. process of going to indiana. i'm sure you had heard some of the. stories about coach knight. and then it's reported that your brother.

and coach might get into it. when he come to recruit you yeah well oh. that's true and by the way if you hear. something scratching that's my dog. behind me so i saw one i saw him walk in. yeah and now most people probably think. i got a big dog but. hey that little fella he tough now. but you know i didn't make the decision. to go to indiana that was made by my mom. and and and again back then remember. remember. your mom and your dad they they had to. hammer. right never forget you know my mom you.

know called the press conference. and she said my son has made his. decision. he decided to go to indiana university. and play for. coach knight and i was like this. and and yeah he and my brother they got. into it and they got into it they got. into a you know a pretty big fight. and uh you know the reason why what. happened what was it about. well um coach knight was recruiting me.

to come to indiana. in in bloomington indiana right and. and the next uh town over from. bloomington. was martinsville indiana okay klan. started right plan is his you know. has a big presence in in the state of. indiana. right and and so my brother you know. uh he asked coach knight he said uh well. you know. when junior's down there because that's. what they call me in the family they. said when junior's down there.

if if something was to go down with the. clan. who's going to take care of him and you. know i thought it was. i thought it was kind of a funny answer. coach knight said well. if we're winning they will. we just kind of laughed it off right her. brother didn't think that was funny. right so so he's like oh. you know you know he went into his thing. and right you know. and and so they they got into you know a.

little. back and forth and then my brother said. well hey we can take this outside and. coach. knight stood up took his jacket off. rolled up his sleeve. it's like yeah we could take this. outside and you know. everybody in the house we were panicking. oh no no you know how. households are right oh no no no no. now shannon you know let me let me paint. the scene. so we at that time we got no lights we. we post pores so all our meetings have.

to be. in in the daytime right right so it's. about four o'clock. and you know again. we got you know it's actually it was a. big roach crawling behind coach knight's. head. oh man you know and it was like we were. sitting there like. oh. they don't come after you have company i. feel right right. and and i'm sorry about my dog but. anyway.

so now it's getting to be a little dusk. and. and i remember you know sort of the. scuffle you know started happening. not a scuffle but the back and forth. right coach knight took off his jacket. and we was oh. no no no no and you know it's that one. person in the room. who ain't moving ain't doing nothing. right with my mom. my mom was looking at him like. shaking her head and i was like oh she. like him.

oh and so that's that's how i went down. and my mom. and my mom and my sister you know he he. came in. he said i'm all for your son three. things. a he's gonna graduate from college. b he's going to be a gentleman and see. everything that i know about basketball. i'm going to teach him. and that was it isaiah at the time that. you went to college were your father.

alive. my father was alive now um the. interesting thing about my father my. mother and my father. and and again you know people who were. coming up in the 60s you you would. notice um. you know so we had to go on welfare. so when you go on welfare i mean the us. government was really breaking up your. family. because the man couldn't be inside the. household right. and so my father had to leave so we can. get on welfare get the welfare check.

and then they started having kitchen and. everything else but. my mom my dad when he looked at indiana. he did not like me playing basketball. okay my father. didn't like nothing about entertainment. my father was everything about. books learning getting educated because. this is the way. you're going to make it in this world. right done if you think you're going to. make it in this world. bouncing a basketball that's not how. you're going to make it.

you're not going to be you know in in in. his beliefs was. you know entertainment you know wasn't. wasn't the. wasn't the door or the avenue for you to. make it was. education and those were his beliefs. isaiah the reason why i ask you that. because i don't know how many people. know this but we know this because we. come from black families. the older brother took on the role as. the father if the father wasn't in the. house. and because you said your brother your. older brother. had this conversation that let me know.

okay. when somebody when the father was absent. he's the man of the house. he took on that responsibility yes he. did and and they. and even though and it's well documented. you know my my brothers out there after. the vietnam war. everybody fell into you know heroin and. cocaine. and and my brothers you know a couple of. them died. you know one of them had hiv and you. know so it was. it was a a very difficult time during. that period of time but the messages. that they were always giving me.

right or in their hard times was. hey don't don't do what we're doing. right you can do something else and and. shannon i'll never forget you know. uh now you got me going down memory lane. because when we start when we're talking. about my brothers you know everybody got. the hand-me-downs. right oh yes so me being the youngest. right. oh you got you got three fold deep hand. me down three four deep. but i couldn't pick my brother's clothes.

so you know whose clothes i could fit. your sister's sister's club i. [Laughter]. and you know we knew man those are girl. jeans so i'm having to fire on people in. elementary junior high. because they talk about i'm wearing girl. jeans so i got the fire on them i said i. got no choice. that's how i got good with my hands. that's how i i was like okay well oh.

oh graduation day i had on my sister's. black patent leather boots. and i had on her flowered red blouse. with a hood on her back. and i had on her providence saint male. blazer that was my graduation outfit in. eighth grade. so you go to you go to indiana. what was it like playing for coach. knight i mean we hear all these stories. but i've never talked to anyone that. actually played for coach knight.

you hear these stories about guys that. that played for him. but i've never actually talked to. someone that actually played for coach. knight. so what's that like so the stories that. you. that we all heard about him being a. strong disciplinarian. um i was waiting for that. but what i found was that. in our style of play the way we played. there was great freedom but with that.

great. freedom came a great responsibility. so shannon we never had an under out of. bounds play. we never had a play there was no we we. never came down and said hey. 22 out you know we never. it was it was all about reading and. reacting. knowing your teammate understanding your. teammate. and making the right decisions every. single time so we the way we played.

it was it was very free-flowing and it. was hard to scout. because he believed just like i believe. that pattern offense and you notice from. football. when i can scout your pattern and. and i understand your tendencies then as. a defensive player. i'm i got a good chance of stopping you. right but. but if if if i don't if and in. basketball. what he gave us is the ability to always.

go left. or right and you had to make the right. decision now he would come back and then. we would watch it on film. and if you went left and it was the. wrong decision. it was it was always hell to pay. right making the wrong decision well if. he gives. the leeway in the game what was practice. like because practice got. because for someone to have that kind of. trust in you in the game.

you the the the practices have to be. held isaiah. the practice were intense so the the the. intensity. and the concentration uh and the energy. that you had to bring. bring to practice every single day uh. you know you you got taught to always be. at your maximum right got taught to. always. think at your maximum and you got taught. to always concentrate. at your maximum there was there was.

never. let down and when there was a letdown. again that was held to pay for a letdown. so being able to. sustain that level of intensity that. level of concentration. that level of energy whenever you played. against your opponent. it was just a matter of time before he. wore down. and being a smaller player i have to. depend on. the bigger player to make a mistake.

right because. if you bigger faster stronger than in. sports. athletically you're gonna beat your. opponent nine times out of ten. right the only way that smaller player. has an. opportunity to win is when you make a. mistake. and now i can capitalize on your. mistakes right. so what what i prided myself on is. mentally wearing people down so. if it's a two-hour game i'm gonna.

mentally exhaust. you for two hours and some people. will get mentally exhausted [ __ ] in 15. minutes excuse me. they're gonna get exhausted in 15. minutes some may get exhausted in a half. hour. and i'm talking i'm not talking. physically but you know shiny from from. playing football that. the the the level of concentration that. you guys have to. to run that pattern every single time. run it with intensity run it with. concentration run it with speed.

and and you may only get thrown to maybe. six times or. four times that game correct and run. that route with intensity and speed and. concentration. every single time because i gotta think. i'm getting the ball. but see the difference between. basketball and football isaiah is that. in football. all i have to do is worry about what i. need to do offensively you also got to. worry about defensively. you got to worry about the back pick you. got to worry about all this other stuff. okay yes i'm running the offense i'm in. charge of the offense. but i also got to make sure that rodman.

and sally. and mahorn and lambier all these guys. here come to pit have come to backpick. here come the down screen so you got to. call out all those signals also. yeah and this is and this is where. this is where now everything that you. just described. now when you're my opponent right. i am gonna make you hit every one of. those screens. every play. for 48 minutes now right you go.

that's what we call tap tap right you're. gonna get tapped. offensively and defensively. every time you move right and and. and that frustrates players right who. wants to get a back pick. right and then you're going to get a you. then you're going to get another screen. then right another screen and then. offensively when you got the ball when. you're going through the lane. okay we're not going to let you run you. we're not going to let you run your rock.

the way you want to run your route right. all right you may want to run it down. and out now you you ain't going to. everybody come through the lane they're. going to catch a hill from a horn a lamb. bear. ronnie lot. so so if you want to go over that middle. hey. go ahead i feel i gotta be honest with. you. the first time that i saw the saw you i. was watching the uh 81 national uh the. final four. and you guys were playing carolina so i. was a carolina fan.

so i kind of wanted carolina and i. thought they were gonna win because they. had a really good team they had jimmy. black they had al wood they had james. worthy. and i was like they ain't got nobody but. this little guy they can't beat that. that damn i can't beat carolina man. y'all blew the doors off him. yeah we i think we ended up beating him. by uh 13 points. yeah but yeah uh if i'm not mistaken. isaiah that was also. i think the day that day uh there was an. attempted assassination on rape uh.

president reagan do you remember that. yeah i do we we were we were actually in. uh. in our hotel room we were watching all. my children. and uh and i never forget you know. we all sitting around and we're watching. you know the stories of the soap opera. at that time nobody called them the. story. that's what they call the stories and uh. i'll never forget they they said you. know we interrupt this program. and steve grizzly you know he was always.

sarcastic and everything he goes. not again the president's been shot and. and they came on and said hey you know. we interrupt this program. you know president's been shot and. and risley was like wow i knew and. and and all of us at that time was just. like you know. in a state of shock right watching what. we. what we were seeing and we we didn't at. that time. it didn't dawn on us that the game.

was even potentially being thought about. being cancelled. this is the beauty of coach knight coach. knight was able to keep us focused. and while all the talk was going on. about whether. should the game be played should the. game not be played. we were always singularly focused on the. game is getting played. it's getting played at this time and. this is what we have to do. right that is our only focus so. going into the game obviously two.

powerhouses. uh indiana had won the 76 national. championship game that was the. undefeated season. that was the last time a team had gone. through going through a season. undefeated. carolina is a blue blood powerhouse. going into the game what's your thought. process so my thought process was that. all those flares you just named so they. had james worthy. sam perkins i was on the 80 olympic team. without wood that got boycotted. so their back line was the best back. line in basketball.

howard james worthy uh sam perkins. and and i and and i knew that okay we. were good enough basketball team. defensively. but talent wise they just had more. talent than we did. right so my my game plan was to just. try to keep it close and i understood. dean smith substitution pattern. you know he he he would they would. platoon they they. five guys in and out and so.

when he took worthy and i. would out i was like okay. you're gonna go in attack mode when the. second team. came in okay yeah not now we can catch. up because if you remember we were down. early in the game right yes and and it. and it looked like they was going to. blow us out and then when they made that. substitution. and we stayed in that's when we came. back. and we was able to you know get it get.

it close at the half. right we were coming out the third. quarter and we had to jump on a quick. i think i made uh two steals in a row. that got us up and once we got up. defensively. i just thought they would have a hard. time because at that time i thought. well well history says we were uh in a. tournament i don't know if there's been. a team. uh as dominant indeterminate as we were. that year. because every single game we won by. double digits um.

and actually carolina was the closest. game we had. and we beat them by 13. so when. did you know going into the game what. was the determining factor of you. leaving. indiana after your sophomore season did. you know going into the game win lose a. draw i'm out of here. i had no money. we we came back from hawaii uh. from the christmas tournament okay and i. came back.

and there were no lights in my house now. this is dead or winter. no lights you know the gas turned off. my family you know was all in different. places. right and i didn't know where anybody. was because we didn't have a phone. you know you couldn't call and find out. right and i never forget just. trying to figure out where to go and. lucky enough for me. my girlfriend who's my wife now she had. dropped me off. at the house because she had a car of. course i i did.

and she drove dog and for some reason. she turned around and came back. and had she not come back you know i'd. probably end up. you know walking to my aunt's house and. trying to find a place where everybody. was. but you know we we were we was extremely. poor and when they. when they said hey man you can make some. money by going to the nba. and i said just playing basketball. i was like for real yeah all you gotta. do is declare hardship i say well i'm.

hardship. [Laughter]. it's really hard over here where i live. yeah so. so we talk about. chicago basketball players yourself. a.d d wade d rose antoine walker. maurice keith uh tim hardaway senior. george mikey mark agua terry cummings. hey that y'all got about y'all got a. nice little little stick out there. isaiah. yeah we we we've done all right.

we we we got i tell you my my uh. so my my high school graduating class. these are the these are the nba players. and nba champions. okay myself mark aguirre. doc rivers craig hodges. uh darryl walker and i'm with i'm. missing. i'm missing one more um.

oh i'm missing one more but. we had six out of my high school class. that went on to win. nba championships so you and mark. aguilar were the same year. yeah we no he was a year ahead of me. right 78.79. right oh i'm sorry eddie johnson okay. yes so you declare. you go um i think if i'm not mistaken.

mark agua was the first pick in your. draft right you were number two. that's number two so did it matter. i mean because now you know guys guys. you know yeah. it doesn't matter as long as i get. drafted but guys deep down really want. to go to. team x or team you know team y did it. really matter where you were going you. just like i'm going to the nba i'm gonna. be getting a check. once a month twice a month uh however. it's gonna be but i'm gonna have some. money in my pocket. so i'm a midwest boy and i wanted to go. back home to chicago.

right and mark aguirre and i both were. trying to. you know rig the draft if we both can. get to chicago because chicago had the. fourth pick. in the sixth pick okay and and we were. trying to drop. all the way down to four and six so. every interview we did. you know with the teams that were above. us right but we just. blew the interview. [Music]. you know and and i'll never forget when.

i. when i interviewed in detroit it was. jack mccloskey and will robinson. okay and and jack mccloskey uh you know. every question that he asked. asked me i you know i would answer it. wrong and you know i'm trying to you. know i'm trying to drop i'm trying. to get people not to like me right never. forget he looked over at me goes. i know what you're doing i just want you. to know it ain't gonna work. number two i'm taking you i was like all. right the gigs up.

so you you you go you go to detroit. and so what are you thinking what are. you like man how we gonna turn this. around i mean detroit. uh i mean because at that time basically. the eastern conference really. it was like a three conference team but. it was really two it was the sixers. it was the celtics and you sprinkle in a. little of the books. but basically it was the sixers and the. celtics and you knew that's what you. and they were young celtics they were. young.

yeah so i i i never looked at um. i never looked at we couldn't do it. right the question i asked myself is. how long would it take for us to do it. okay and. and what did i have to learn okay. because. you know winning in high school is one. thing then winning in college is another. coming to the nba there's always an. educational curve okay. what i had to do was i had to go to. school and i really went to the school.

of the celtics and the lakers. okay fortunate enough that i was friends. with magic johnson. uh dr bus jerry west kareem. all of them let me enter their their. inner sanctuary. in terms of how they win how they lose. how they prepare. what their tradition was all about how. organization. works because in detroit we had we had. none of that. right and then fortunately enough for me. ml car.

was in boston uh ml and then kevin. mchale. who i played on the pan am team with was. friends with him. so when when boston and la was competing. i was in one of their locker rooms all. the time. taking notes and i was at every. every finals game just learning and. educating myself. on how to win how to be a champion and. understanding what the pressure would be. like in those buildings.

right because i knew at some point in. time i was going to come there. and beat them and right that's what i. did. um that's that's uh that's never. happening. there's no way a team will allow a a. a person a player from the opposing. teams regardless of who you. they're not allowing you to lock a room. now little do they know. did they know what you were doing they. just thought you were being friendly. no absolutely they knew i told them i i. you know and. and that's why i say i would i was.

fortunate right i was fortunate that. they. they allowed me to come in and and. learn and this is where i give the. lakers and the celtics credit because. they were great champions. um not only were they great champions. but they were great teachers. they would teach you you know they would. tell you you know what you did wrong. what you what you need to do you know. you know. it was like you know it's like when. muhammad ali was fighting you know.

uh leon sphinx you know and he would. grab him we go. right which oh. yeah yeah it's is so so they were great. teachers they were great mentors. and everything if you look back at the. detroit pistons. and bad boys in terms of all trajectory. you can you can you can chronicle it. everything that the celtics and the. lakers did. we emulate it we implemented.

and also acted uh so they were great. teachers. we were great students also so. you mentioned when you came in okay you. come in in 81. birded birding arriving you know 79 and. so they got a young. dominant team bird mikhail parish. they had nate archibald then nate. archibald leads and they come in with. dennis johnson. and then they bring it you know they. have bill walton they just had a uh. a cast of characters and like did you.

like. when is this gonna happen no. so so again you the my training. has always been you know um. you know mentally physical okay. four is to one okay so i was taught and. trained how to take the physicality out. of a game. okay oh so so people who are bigger. stronger faster jump higher than you. or blessed with the genetic gene i'm.

going to eliminate all of that. and now i'm gonna make you play. basketball okay. so and and once you make them play. basketball. then there's a certain frustration that. that comes along with that. unfortunately for myself at that period. of time. bird magic kareem mikhail. dennis john you talking. man you talking basketball.

iq that's just off the charts right. not only so there was there was no. wearing those guys down mentally. it was only can you can you understand. what they're doing and gain knowledge. right. then put it on the rest of the league. right. so you know as as time went on. um the the lakers got a little older. the celtics got a little older and you.

know we were we wanted to come. and we were young gonna come but not. only were we young gonna come. we had an intellect and an intelligence. that was coming along. with that which which made us extremely. dangerous. it's like when you look at that celtics. team that that the 86. 87 um lakers. celtics teams those are those are looked. at as two of the. the best teams to ever play two of the. top five teams ever played.

correct basketball in the nba well. in 87 we had the celtics beat. in 88 we had the lakers beat. that's how good a basketball team we. were so. once the play you made to play. bird still you know we we know the call. burns stalling past the dj. dj lays it up obviously that had to hurt. because you like we got them dead to. right. we got them what i've been trying to.

accomplish since 81 since i arrived here. in detroit. it's about to happen yeah. what what's going through your mind that. offseason when you. knew you had them and you let it slip. away. i got one more lesson to learn and next. year i'm going to beat them. right because because i had them right. i had them and and and you saw the next. year we came back and beat them. right and in that game five that i made.

the mistake in boston. um go back and look at the next year. my game five in boston what i did. let's go back have one of your stack. guys go back and look at the next year. game five. in boston oh y'all y'all gave that work. because i. hold on did they y'all they took one. game they might have to what was it 4-1. a 4-2. uh 4-2 yeah yeah but it was.

it was i think they were mentally done. yeah they. you know they they were they were a. champion they were they were mentally. done. and you hit the right word you know. there is only so long that you can. sustain that concentration. but again what i love about boston is. they they were great teachers. right they they were they were great. teachers i don't think people. understand the mental and the physical. toll. it is to start playing in october and.

finish your season. every year in june because that's what. the because you remember like in the. early part of the 80s. it was celtics every year representing. basically in the east before you guys. came over. it was the celtics ballot and the sixers. to represent the east. and they were going against the lakers. and it was that every single year so if. you go back like. from 80 what 83 so basically it was. it was the lakers in 80. it was the. lakers in 82. it was the lakers in 83. it was like it's in 80. in 85 it was the.

lego of the day 7 88 89. in the finals yeah we're talking about. no first round we're talking about the. nba finals. and then it was you guys you guys were. battling the celtics every year in the. eastern conference finals. and then you go you represent the. eastern conference. in the finals year after year after year. and it takes a grind we saw the grind. that it took on golden state last year. kevin durant. and that was only three for kd the other. guys had gone to five. and you see the toll that it took it.

took on them physically. yeah it's uh you know the. when when you're the champion and you're. the best and you. you prepare every night to be the best. um. there's an opponent that's bringing his. best. every single night right so. there really are no nights off and then. when you're the best player. there are certain standards that you. have to bring to the game. every night because not only are you.

a good player but now you're a performer. also so. the audience is paying money to see you. play so. not only do you have to play but you. also got to give give a good performance. and this is you know so magic and i you. know we. you know we're very friendly with the. jacksons and this is what we learned. from. from watching the jacksons and michael. jackson that that that summer and that. whole. two years that we toured with them is. that the energy that they brought every. single night. and the performance that they gave no.

matter who was in the audience no matter. where they were playing. you got the best out of them every. single show. and it was like okay there are some. people that can. give a concert but then a michael. jackson concert. is different now yeah because he got to. perform. yeah he can't have an off night that's. right so if you're the star of the. basketball. when you're the star of a team you can't. have off night. you have off night so that's what i.

tried to bring to my. my game i tried to bring that. that where michael jackson can can make. a person in the. 20th row feel an emotion. that he was feeling when he would. moonwalk or he would hit a move. and the guy in the 20th world be like. well i wanted to. make that fan right feel that whenever i. would like hit a good move. i would want that that person in the. stand to.

feel that emotion that i was giving off. and that energy. because it felt good to me i wanted them. to feel that good too. i know it's hard but you played in. arguably the greatest. era the 80s that we've seen. how would you rank bad boy pistons. showtime lakers the big three celtics. uh the bulls at the tail end although. they didn't win they were on the. they did to you what you had did to the. celtics and the lakers.

they were stalking from an outside. position. how would you how would you rank how. would you rank the dynasties of the 80s. so uh you you'd have to rank the. you know lakers celtics arguably one or. two. you know 181b depending on. you know do you like vanilla ice cream. or chocolate ice cream. but it's still ice cream you know right. right um. and in philly uh that period of time. with moses and dr. j you know in the 80s um you know.

you got to give them their their respect. too i think we would probably be. you know in in the 80s we would be. somewhere in there. as a basketball team now talent wise. the lakers the celtics the 76ers. we could not compete with their talent. but as a basketball team as a year. i would venture to say that our.

basketball team as a. unit was just as good as their teams. okay however. if you just breaking it down by talent. we did not have the talent that any of. those teams had. but not having a talent is really what. made us. even more special because we didn't have. the luxury. that they had right you didn't have all. those i mean. the lakers are littered with hall of. famers they got six or seven you got.

we know about kareem and magic and james. worthy and and. jamal wilkes and and bob mcadoo. we we know about those guys norm nixon. was norm nixon was a heck of a player. also and you know about the big the big. three celtics but people don't realize. dennis johnson was the finals mvp and. the defensive player of the year. bill walton bill wald was an mvp he was. a finals mvp. people don't realize just how good those. teams were. and you took them down and then. everybody gonna say well you know they.

got no. but you still beat them nobody else beat. them if they were getting old. no no it wasn't it wasn't that they were. getting old we were that good. so and so i i gave you 86 87 those were. right. as teams right in 87. we had them beat you did in 88. we had the lakers beat so. we we were that good right now when you. look at. philadelphia the lakers and the celtics.

every one of those teams that we just. named in 80s that were champions. all of them had three. or four top 50 players. on their team yep not. not one they had three or four. top five players on yes yes. detroit pistons and and this is this is. why i say we were a great team.

i was the only one as. as a top 50 player on my team. that's how good a that's how good a unit. we have become. to compete against teams that had three. or four. top 50 players on their team. yeah i think themselves had like five. because the big three. dj and bill walton yeah a couple of. times hey. we're going to talk about we're going. isaiah you caught people.

you caught a lot of criticism and people. say well he just hating. he's just upset you said michael wasn't. my competition. i never chased michael i was chasing. larry. and magic i was chasing the celtics and. the lakers. because they had what i wanted. michael never had what i wanted he was. chasing me. i wasn't chasing him explain what you. mean by that. you know just head to head you know i.

was dominant. over him right when we when all teams. met. you know when you go back and you look. at until. 91 when i when i when i basically had. career ending wrist surgery. right up until then you know. my record against against against him. and his team you know it was. it wasn't it really was a competition. there. and um you know you know.

and and most people think like we're you. know i'm five years older than him but. we're only a year apart year two. a year and a half apart uh so. but you know he just wasn't my. competition. now burr you didn't have anything that. you wanted. he didn't have the trophies no and and. like i said. my focus was bird magic dr. j dream abdul jabar okay those were the. guys. right i you know i don't care what.

anybody say. you go back and look at history those. were the guys. they were jay moses malone. larry bird robert parish kevin mchale. kareem magic james those were the guys. right because back then the celtics were. putting four players on the all-star. team they have their three big guys and. dennis johnson. i'm like the ease would look like the. celtics i'm like hold on wait a minute. is there anybody else in the east.

yeah well there was milwaukee because. remember milwaukee was good. jerry cummings they had uh uh uh bob. lemire. they had alvin roberts they would they. would lose they would lose to. milwaukee would lose to philadelphia or. austin. yep seven games yep and that's how good. that milwaukee team was yep. i remember i remember like yesterday. yeah so chicago. i mean and i'm and i'm from chicago from. the west side but.

you know jordan jordan was you know he. he dominated. a different era right if we put jordan. in our era. you know he he lost a lot in our air. right. um who would you say are the five. toughest players that. you've had to face again you know. and and you can just go by the winning. wreckage right. you know right um magic. kareem okay bird.

bird dr j and then i will say jordan. look i believe knowing you the little. bit that i do. you're speaking like you have to. understand when i came in in 81. the lakers and the celtics basically. dominated. michael was great had great highlight. reels but he wasn't winning anything. see people look at what he did in the.

90s and they try to transport that back. to the 80s. but that didn't happen in the 80s no. and you got to understand i i play a. different kind of game. so as i said to you earlier your genetic. gifts right i'm going to eliminate all. of that. and now we're going to play basketball. and it's going to be about. all our mental stamina. you know because i i can't i can't jump. higher than than.

than some i can't i can't out. height so i can't outweight some. but i can out think a lot right. so what i'm trying to understand isaiah. is that people you said you. learned from the lakers from the celtics. and you implemented that to the bad boy. pistons. so you brought a mentality so why.

do people criticize you for the type of. basketball that your team played. do they not remember the celtics and the. lakers snatching each other out the sky. do they not remember them knocking each. other in the front row. why is it that the bad boy pistons get. this label. but pretend like the lakers and the. celtics were playing such beautiful. basketball. when they were just as physical and you. learned that style of play because. you felt the only way that you could. beat the bully was the bully the bully. well what what the bad boy pistons also.

did was we stepped out of the sports. arena and we started critiquing. society from a race. class gender. sport so we we we started talking about. race. we started talking about all the things. that the champions. talk about when coming from from all.

from our community when the champion. gets the mic. he or she has to speak for what's going. on. inside the community right you have the. voice so you speak for the voiceless. right well the things that i was saying. at that particular time. about critique in our industry about we. wanted. we needed more more officials. who were of color like us. we needed more coaches who were colored.

like us. and and by the way the media. that was covering us at that time. if you remember females. weren't allowed to even cover the sport. right they were just. breaking into the sport it was. it was really all white male men. right who covered all sport. and the perspective that they had of us. and of me was all the public red.

now i grew up on the west side of. chicago. and we just chronicled my whole you know. childhood and everything else. the first time i was called a thug. listen to me closely when i say this. shannon first time i was called a. thug and we know what that means. was when i was in the nba playing for. the detroit pistons.

by a white caucasian male. who described me and my play. as a thug and thuggish i've lived my. whole life. and i've never been called a thug but. now i get. to this arena in this playing. field and now the. and and what i talked about then was the. labeling theory. i said all the negative labels that you.

are attaching to us. when mandela came to visit us. everyone everyone knew in the nba what. we stood for. and what we were speaking about in. detroit. my no crime day march all those things. were happening. and so you know there there was a. certain backlash because. i was pushing that we needed more people. of color covering our sport. right so the detroit pistons today still. have.

two african americans covering their. beat. i'm proud of that right okay every. every beat writer that covered our team. became a columnist because we were. giving them. access so when you look back. at what we were doing in the sport and. then me being the president of the. players association. deregulating agents putting in. agent certifications and.

giving the players back their money. because if you remember shannon remember. all them stories are. oh this player went broke what happened. to all their money. you don't read those stories no more. that often right. because the agents were taking 20 of the. players money. off the top and then they were taking 50. percent of endorsements. tax-free. so when when you started to certify an. agent started putting in.

agent regulations so you know the the. story around the pistons and myself. has a lot to do with agents. media perception right media. talk about us and so we we kind of get. pushed to the side because you can only. hear him out there that's very false. about us. right because the because the person. that's writing. the story about you and the person. that's reading it if they don't know you. well. this person is right about writing about.

him this is what he's saying about it. it must be true at that time. yeah because there was there was no zoom. right internet the only way you could. get your voice out. was to sit and talk to someone. who had to interpret what you were. saying. right then they would write it right. then it would get. edited again right so. depending on what the editor on the.

writer wanted you to say. that's exactly what you said so your. agency as a person your ability to. communicate. that was all sectioned off so when this. thing came along. internet zoom technology everything okay. now you can. you can speak for yourself right you got. social media so now you got access you. can. you got your own platform you don't need. someone else to tell your story. i can tell my own story isaiah before we.

move on. uh you caught i think maybe. in your playing days one of the greatest. i guess if you want to say. turmoil that you got caught up in was in. 1987. and you talked about that game and they. went to dennis rodman. and they asked dennis rodman the. question and dennis said if blackberry. were just black he would be another. player. they asked you you answered you were. chuckling. yeah yeah you're probably right.

that was we had up until that point i. don't know if we'd had anything i don't. remember now maybe. you go back a little further than i do. but i hadn't heard anything. and you had to come out in an nba finals. game. sit on the podium next to larry and. explain your side of the story. elaborate for the people that that's. young and enchanted. that don't that doesn't remember that. well. race and and and controversy around race.

in this country has always been a. conversation. yes i've always been trying to. uh elevate and get ourselves out of this. race box that they put us all in. yeah and and in that period of time. i was having a conversation because it. was um. uh it was uh i think it was the 25th. um anniversary of jackie robinson.

breaking the color barrier in basement. and and that week all we were talking. about were stereotypes. to stereotypes what what might have been. the. 47 it might have been the 40th it was. the 40th anniversary of 47 because. jackie came in at 47 and that was 87. well thank you for correcting me. i know it was one of those anniversaries. yes yes and and so we were talking about. stereotypes race. everything else and and i was having a.

conversation about. how yes these stereotypes that. that you have stuck on us as athletes. and also in society they still exist. and i was using the black quarterback as. an example. of how the the black quarterback in the. nfl at that time. still wasn't perceived to have the. knowledge. the correct capability of of leading the.

team. quarterbacking the team and running the. team i mean that was all for debate. yeah i'm saying that was the same in. sport right. magic johnson is giving credit for being. a great athlete but he's not giving. credit for being the smartest player. right in the sport kareem the same thing. um and now bird had just dropped you. know. i think he had a triple-double on us and. had went off. now our relationship with the celtics. was always a close relationship.

even though we competed hard we played. hard against each other. but we always had a close relationship. and and i can remember telling bird hey. rodman you know. our fir his first exhibition game we. were in um. in uh hartford connecticut and i was. telling. bird like this this one here can guard. he can defend so forth and so on. anyway bird ended up you know giving it. to him but throughout the year.

you know robin was getting a little. better and a little better and a little. better. now we all frustrated everybody's. frustrated. and those of us now who have gotten to. know dennis rodman. back then people didn't know dennis. rodman but you when you're a teammate. you know who this person really is right. what. upbringing is about what his life is. about. who his who his closest people in his. life are about. right so robin makes a comment.

we just got beat and you can. yeah you can see me chuckling kind of. blowing off the comment like yeah you. know. robin if ha ha ha ha right. and but here's the mistake that i made. the mistake that i made was that. you you never supposed to repeat. another person's quote right. so again back then shannon we didn't. have media training and all that what we.

got. right yeah yeah it was trial by fire. there. yeah so so now you know robin makes that. and then i repeat his quote now it's. like oh isaiah said it. so everything that i was talking about. in terms of stereotypes labeling theory. and everything else. that was going to be headlines and be. talked about now. all of a sudden that narrative shifted. and got changed. and we never really got to have the real. conversations. like we're still having today you. mentioned that.

you and magic johnson are good friends. is there a difference between magic. johnson on the court. and irving johnson off the court oh eric. johnson will give you anything. magic. i mean that when you're competing and. again this is. this is this is what the general public. failed to see about. us as athletes in terms of competition.

we can compete and be. angry and and and and show all those. emotions and passions and everything. else. that the sport brings out of us that's. what makes us. good but then when the game is over. we can go get a pizza right you know. and and that's to me that's the. compelling and. fascinating thing about us as athletes. and i do think this is why a lot of. athletes probably sometimes.

talk or reference themselves in the. third person. because shannon you know the person that. you are outside of the lines. yes the lines you're a totally different. person right. now you can't you can't you you. you can't carry you know 84 inside the. lines. outside the lines you're going no. absolutely not go to jail right. so i who who did you love competing. against the most. of of magic larry dr j.

kareem whomever who was your. who did you love competing against the. most. i have to say i would have to say magic. only because of the friendship. and then how smart he was right when you. talk. again magic kareem bird. dr j i mean them guys i mean you. hey man you you bring your books to. school you know. every day and you you come into the.

classroom and you're taking notes. because right. their intellect and their understanding. of play every time you made a mistake. they took advantage of it so. it'd be like um if i was to give a. football analogy now it's tom brady. right you playing against in it tom. brady ain't fast and everything but you. know what. every time you make a mistake all right. you gonna give me them five yards. bam take them five right in five yards. i'm gonna take them five.

you don't give me them three yards okay. i'm gonna take them three right. oh you're gonna give me them seven i'm. gonna take them seven right. so they they pick you apart and they're. patient enough. and discipline enough to do the right. thing. every single time so learning from those. guys you know. magic i would say magic was because he. he and i played the same position. and he was eight inches taller and. bigger. faster and everything else but the the.

chess. game that that we would play during the. course of the game. was always you know fascinating to me so. you're trying to make. you're trying to make a person play the. game from the neck up. i'm going to take everything else i'm. going to take everything else out of the. equation. we're going to play this basketball game. i know we got to put the ball in the. hoop. but we're going to play the game between. from the neck up and we're going to see. who going to win. yes your genetics are a nun factor. okay right you're you're you're blessed.

with the genetic gifts of. size height and jumping ability. okay i'm going to take all letting them. eliminate that. and and now now let's let now let's. play so and and and that takes that. takes a lot of mental skill to be able. to. to maneuver in a game like that and. eliminate somebody's physicality and now. we're going to play a mental chess game. when you walked away from the game. isaiah what did you miss most.

did you miss the game um. i was fortunate enough to go right into. owning a team. in toronto right physically i knew i was. done. my body was shot i had nothing left i. didn't. i didn't miss the game as much because. now i was able to. uh if you were still around it you just. weren't playing yeah i was still able to. think about it be a. be around and be about it. did you hang out with many players in. the off-season obviously you say you and.

magic were very good friends. did you hang out with players in the off. season no i was in school. so you remember i left i left in 81. i graduated in 87 i went to summer. school. double sessions every year until i. graduated. okay and that and that that little dance. where you see me. dancing around out there make the shot. right that was mother's day. i was graduating on that date we beat.

the atlanta hawks. and my mother who only had a third grade. education. got to walk across the stage in my cap. and gown. at indiana and graduate wow that was a. beautiful day. and then after that you know uh you know. i had a family i could so so hanging out. and all that that was never me. i mean i i really most people don't know. but i'm really i was a nerd i read a lot. still read a lot. went back to school got my masters at uh.

at cal. in education uh university of california. berkeley got a master's education from. there. so i've been in school you know all my. life going to school. learning trying to get better how do you. react. when people call you a dirty player i. laugh i smile. see that's what they see that's what. they call they call you smiling assassin. because see they say look at he'll be. smiling and all the time he got you. well here here's what here's what i. learned on the west side of chicago.

being poor. i am not going to give you the power. right to a to. to judge me or be put your perceptions. on me right i'm confident. in myself and knowing who i am what i'm. about. and and that really comes from my poor. experience. of being shamed right and so. coming into the nba uh.

you know i got food in my refrigerator. every day shannon. most people don't understand how. important that is. oh absolutely i do right so. the fact that i i got food in my. refrigerator i can put gas in my car. and i got a roof over my head hey man i. made it. everything else is you know you know. you're on top. right i said look i know it was painful.

because you were on the olympic team you. were let me look at this make sure i get. this right. you won male athlete of the year for the. night in 1980. you were gonna be on the olympic team it. got boycotted. the the soviet invaded afghanistan. president carter. said no they're not going show protest. because and then. if i'm not mistaken it was in it was an. a it was a moscow. that's where it was yeah it was in. moscow and so they boy we boycotted them. they returned the favor in 84 when it. was in l.a.

all indication everybody says you pull. all the all the. the great who's the second greatest most. people. 95 percent of 99 percent of people say. magic johnson is the greatest point. guard ever. the other isaiah thomas so. when the greatest collection supposedly. of basketball players and. okay we will i'll agree with that 12. what 11 of the 12 went to the hall of. fame in the pro. in the basketball hall of fame how does. that make you.

feel when everybody keeps saying isaiah. thomas. thomas is the second greatest point. guard ever. but for that one year he wasn't worthy. enough for being on the dream team. because as you mentioned you want finals. mvp your uh. most outstanding player your all-star. game mvp you got a lot of credentials. and i've heard you say it's the only. thing that's on your resume. that you feel that hasn't been filled in. yeah um so i was i was disappointed.

you know i was hurt um. i was i was all of those range of. emotions that you could uh. think of you know mad angry all of those. things. um but then. after that you know you root for the. team. right you know that that that's how i. that's how i've grown up. um you know i didn't make it so. i rooted for the usa yeah i root for too.

i mean you i know you wanted. but isaiah yeah no no i no i'm not i'm. not trying to downplay it. right you know and i'm not trying to. blow past it. i do want you to know yeah i i went. through all those emotions. but again shannon where i came from. right right. i came i came from the dirt. in less than the dirt right so. so having disappointment all my life. being disappointed again you know.

dealing with death. and everything i mean you know i was. going to funerals and. every week so it wasn't no more tears. left right you know what i mean the way. i right. now so now that i didn't make the. the dream team you know that's another. hurt. but it ain't it ain't it ain't stopping. my life. you're right i mean it but yeah did i. want to be a part. did i did i deserve to be a part yeah.

all that is true. but the fact is i wasn't and. so now you gotta you gotta get up you. gotta get out. did you watch the last dance yeah i. watched it i watched it. i watched it with great fascination and. i watched it with great disappointment. because because you heard a lot of the. guys. chime in and say well isaiah did it to. himself. and nobody wanted to play with isaiah. but i've heard so many of these other. players say. you don't have to be the best of friends.

if the common goal is about winning well. the common goal was about winning the. gold medal. well if the common goal is about winning. the gold medal who cares if you're best. friend with isaiah. hey you know what i agree with you. i'm just using what this is i'm just. using what they say. they say you do not have to be best. friends. with a teammate you don't have to go out. to dinner we don't have to go to the. movies we got to bring our wives and.

kids together all we're trying to do is. win a title. so you mean to tell me even though you. might not have liked isaiah. you couldn't set that aside to win a. gold medal so now. it matters if you get a loan whereas. before you're telling me as long as you. win the championship. because it's hard for me to believe i. know i play the team sport. everybody on a 50-thread three-man. roster ain't friends and they ain't. friendly. so this notion that you need to be best. of friends. hold on y'all look like y'all all. hanging out oh you know we going.

overseas and so everybody's out every. night together. i'm sure you're gonna have your wife and. kids y'all probably would have been. touring barcelona and doing your thing. just like everybody else was doing their. thing i don't that's. that's one of the problems that i have. because i've followed the game for a. long long time. isaiah and i say i don't care what y'all. tell me. isaiah was one of the 12 best players in. the nba. at the time well he the all-time assist. leader i said john. stockton wasn't at that time either he. became that i'm talking about at that.

moment. when they're making that selection. isaiah thomas was one of the best. players. and you can't convince me otherwise his. resume says so. but they let personal feelings get. involved in this isaiah. well after watching last dance it just. you know and we we won't dance around it. here hold on. don't dance right at me let me do it it. seems like there was only one person. that had a problem with it right and and. that was jordan now. i didn't at that time i didn't realize.

and even even until i watched the last. dance. i didn't realize that he felt the way he. felt. about me because again shannon i. i had never had no no you know bad words. with him or anything like. that we we played you know his team won. and my team won. we went home they went on right again we. didn't have the internet and. as you can see what i saw. what i saw in terms of the chicago bulls.

you know all night life wasn't as good. as that. you know we wouldn't you know that. that's not how we. we we and i got down you know right. so most of and when i look at that dream. team right. i had i mean we we knew each other. but the only person that i really knew. on the dream team. was magic and personal relationship.

because again you know i was in school. you know. i was i was married i was doing my thing. i wasn't. you know i wasn't i wasn't hanging out. like trying to be friends and all that. stuff right. so there's nothing so and. so you believe you believe i mean after. watching that. that the one guy that had a problem with. you. was the reason that you weren't on the. team i'm just going by what he said.

i mean that that's what that's what the. you know. that's what the tape said that's what he. said and that's you know and. and you know because a lot of a lot of. people. forget isaiah they said well because. when. you had beaten them the previous you. beat them 4-1-4-2-4-3 and they finally. broke through. and they beat you guys um and. they said that each time that you beat. them they shook your hand. but i don't know if people remem. remember this in. 88 when you beat the celtics they walked.

off the court. and they didn't shake your hand yeah you. remember that isaiah. oh yeah i remember that and and by the. way so. but but nobody said hold on let. nobody said a word about. that it was only became an issue. when you guys walked up to court and. didn't shake and. look i'm not excusing what you did but. if you didn't have a problem with it. three four years earlier. why you got a problem with it now yeah.

and and. and so yeah when the celtics walked off. right um here's the difference. we as the pistons we never made a big. deal. right celtics walking off not shaking. our hands they were champions. and they deserve to to to go out how. they want to. yeah and and and we were thankful and. grateful for the lessons that they. taught.

and now we go on to try to beat somebody. else right. never we never sat around and said oh. you know mikhail. and michelle and i are good friends. still today right. and and before dennis johnson and all. them guys. before dennis johnson passed and you. know larry and i we see each other today. and it's still cool but we never we. never said. wow they didn't shake on hand what poor. sports are not we we never did that. it was like okay they were they were. champions they were exiting.

and and we moved on the. the other thing that that i would say is. the the night before now we're down 3-0. in the series. you've heard me speak glowingly about. the celtics. and the lakers as champions and. when we were getting ready to beat them. and we knew we had the better team and. they were going down. we wasn't the day before talking about.

how they were. bad and they were this and they were. right they're bad for the nba yes. we gave them their respect right now. jordan. before you know before. you know they swept us you know the. night before. you know he has this big press. conference where he. he annihilates our team. and the one thing that really you know. hit us hard. is when he called us undeserving.

champions. now you've won super bowls you've been a. champion. yeah now imagine someone saying. that what you earned and what you did. you were undeserving of it and by the. way. it wasn't a coach it wasn't a media. person. it was one of your peers right what made. why do you think you said that what made. you guys so undeserving.

i don't know. the these are questions that that that. you have to ask him. right now all i can do is speak for us. and speak for the detroit pistons. so you know when we when. when we walked off and and lambeau said. i'm not shaking their hands. and this is how we roll we rolled as a. team we wrote. you know it's one for all all for one.

you know and and lambeau was like this. is what we're doing. so you fall in line and that's right i. didn't. none of us knew that and that the camera. would be on you. and right this is supposed to be a. passion of a torch. shannon that that is some bs ain't never. been no. torch pass and glorious moment. and all right all that narrative around. that was just. total made up bs to make. one team or one player look bad and.

another one looked good. that was it isaiah i know you you work. for nba tv and i know you still follow. the game. what player you think reminds you of. yourself who plays the game like isaiah. thomas. um i i'll put you this way i like. watching kyrie irving playing you that. that's who i would. cuz like you yeah i like watching steph. curry. play now i don't know if i played as.

good as them. uh but i like watching youtube right. um i always thought that and and i. looked at. i looked at all air and i looked at. myself as as very unique. um i looked at myself as a player. you know as a picasso as a as an. original. right and and so i'll i'll go back to. those five players that we named. earlier kareem. magic bird dr j michael jordan.

okay none of them played. like each other everybody was. kind of an original right and when i. came into the nba i looked at myself as. an original. so when i look at the nba right now i do. see some guys carving out their. originality in their own space right i. think steph curry has done it. i think kyrie has done it uh other. guards uh they're still.

they're still trying to get there you. know i'm talking about now somebody said. oh you don't like heart and all that nah. that ain't what i'm saying. i'm saying when you look at you know. guys that have done things that i just. haven't seen like. some stuff that kyrie do with the. basketball i i haven't seen that. you're like you got it on the screen at. times it's a little different it looked. like he. looked like he looked like he danced. already or something right. let me ask you this isaiah because i i.

find it sometimes in my profession. in guys in my era why is it so hard. from greats of whatever era to give. credit. to grace of another era oh he could have. played in my era oh he wouldn't have. done that in my ear. why is it so hard it's okay it's okay. but some of it is true shannon. there are a lot of guys who play in the. nfl right now they run across the middle. free. oh yeah yeah the rules are different oh. yeah absolutely and you know. there are some guys who are running. across that middle right now.

yes man when you was playing ain't. nowhere in the hell they was going. across the middle. they would they would definitely think. twice before going in there with no. caution. absolutely ain't nothing twice hey but. even that's the case though isaiah you. still will give credit when credit's due. yeah you you don't you know if a guy is. good you like. you don't make it about the error you. say you can only do. in the area what you're doing at the end. that's what you do. and and and so i look at this era.

and i say i see some of the most skilled. unbelievable shot makers yes. that i i that i have ever seen yes. you know the the stuff that kevin i've. i've never seen. there was no kevin durant in my era. right. seven feet tall shaking it shoot it from. the. i hadn't seen that right i'm gonna tell. you who else this porzingis kid.

right hey ain't no seven three dude. then obviously you know what is doing. right. okay steph curry stepping out i mean. this is like. pressure time in the game him and clay. thompson pulling from the hash mark. yes yes hadn't seen it so. the step back three isaiah is i mean. because what used to be a bad shot son. don't take that shot we can get a better. shot.

you're encouraging guys now guys are. taking two dribbles. past half court and letting it fly yeah. so. this now you've seen it before in the. indirect league going to park. yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but in the real. game. yes in the real game it's like. hadn't seen it you know all-star games. isaiah. guys you put all your stuff on display. you dribble a little bit. you pull up from you know for 33 they do.

this in a regular game. yeah for real they do this in a playoff. game guys are letting hash mark threes. goals. in a playoff game yeah so we. the the nba right now skill wise. it's the best skill i've ever ever ever. seen you know. right now i'm not talking low post game. because the low post game is the worst. slow post game ever yeah you know how. low. players you got to be able to shoot. three yeah now this is the. this is the best we've ever seen right.

uh. now this also is the worst defense. i've ever seen in the nba well they. don't want you to play. people won't score in isaiah they don't. want no 85. 90 game you know they want 115 122. but i got to critique it now talking. about the pistons and you talk about the. bad boys. yes we was putting up 112 110. 107 108. lakers was putting it up. celsius was putting it up you know now. that 90s.

again everybody want to put the bad boys. in the night that wasn't us that was the. new york knicks with pat riley in the. miami heat. in the miami heat that wasn't us right. it's like. everybody wants to be the bad boys. and act like the pistons teams can. emulate us. we just can't be ourselves because they. say it's bad when we're the person. i've heard you on several occasions he. prays on lebron james. how impressive is what he's doing at the.

age of 35. and year 17 with all the miles with all. the minutes with all the playoff games. with all the games under his belt. he's still playing as if he's the best. player which i do believe that he is. still currently. the best player in the nba how is he. doing this. we have never seen in the nba. a player like lebron james and he breaks. a record every single night just to. remind you. that you've never seen this before.

right some people will some people will. have a record and they'll dominate in. one category. but this dude is dominating he's in the. top 10 shannon in. in every step. that's never happened right. in in in from the guard position or the. wing position. in our sport right it's all said and. done. it's going to be hard for people to look.

back 10 years from now. and say he wasn't the best. because you can have your emotional best. right right but what this guy's doing. and what he's been doing. i i'll put you this way um. in football right remember when you. first saw bo jackson. yes i do okay. and imagine if bo jackson would have.

stayed healthy. and still kept getting better right. lebron james. and and there's never been a freak in. football. that's been similar but they never been. a freak like bo jackson. no well we got a freaking basketball. and i ain't talking about the greek one. i'm talking about the american. right and lebron james. right we have never seen this type of. athlete body performance consistency.

from a guy this long. just haven't seen it you falling again. you following the game closely the. lakers are. about to play and play in a little while. who do you like who do you got to pick a. team you got to handicap this. you know i i'm a fan of the little guys. so i i still i still you know. emotionally i'm i'm tugged for you know. harden and westbrook because i do want.

to work yeah but like i've been saying. throughout the show when the guy is. bigger faster and stronger. that guy's going to win and you'll the. only thing you can depend on. the only advantage you may have is if. that guy makes a mistake. right lebron james. he ain't making no mistakes right so. you know he gonna beat the the smaller. player. most of the time because the thing is.

that when you look at hardening that's a. nice style of play but so many things. have to go right isaiah. think about it they made 22 threes. and they still only have a little over. 100 points james harden and russ go. both go for 60 over 60 combined. and they barely and they barely have 100. points well when you. playing that kind of basketball and you. still not winning they're like what else. can i do. that's how i used to come home some. nights after playing against magicka.

bird. hey hey coach we had 22 threes they. still beat us by eight. coach we had two guys our two stars go. off and they still beat us by double. figure. what else now what what are we turning. to now yeah. it ain't working of all. john elway was my quarterback and. talking to him ozzie newsome who's a. good friend of mine he played the tight. end position. he was a great exec for 20 years with.

the ravens drafted a lot of hall of fame. players won two super bowls. he said son putting a team together. is a lot harder than actually playing he. said because. when you play you have some control of. the outcome of the game. he said when you put a team together he. said you draft the best. you try to sign the best free agents and. it's out of your hands. yeah um so i. i remember uh when i when i first took. the job over in toronto.

and uh i visited uh. you know a couple of people um so the. and i actually i actually um um. visit uh some of the football people. right so. um i visited a buddy ryan. i remember buddy ryan talked to me and. and he said. you know when you because i was talking. about you know drafting players. everything where you look for. and buddy said well i just want you to. remember this.

that guy that you draft every time he's. running up and down the court. he's got your paycheck in your in his. mouth. make sure make sure you pick wisely. because absolutely that guy that you're. coaching. or that you're drafting that guy is. running up and down the field or down. the floor. and that guy has his your paycheck in.

his mouth. every night so all. which was harder playing coaching. or building a team playing really. playing absolutely well when you when. you talk about winning the championship. yes and then you as small as i am. in a big man's league right all the. rules are. are geared against you the small player. right. and they favored a bigger player right.

there is no bigger mountain i had to. climb. right uh and in my professional life. than trying to win a nba championship. as a small person and then doing it back. to back. and that's the thing though isaiah if we. go back and look at it really. only you and steph have won. championships. as the lead as guards small guards. not magic but magic was six nine you're. talking about you and steph six one six. two so as small guards as you mentioned.

in a big man's league. to to be out front that's that doesn't. happen. now ellen iverson did get his team to an. nba finals. as a small guard but to ultimately win. that prize. that's very unique in the history of the. nba we're not just talking about in the. last 20 years. we're talking about in the history. because the game has always been. dominated by biggs. from miken to chamberlain to russell. to kareem to magic and bird.

jordan i guess i mean but jordan jordan. wasn't six. one jordan was still six six he was six. six with a 49 inch vertical. so he was just flying over everybody huh. i'm saying. that genetic gift right it's like. i ain't got that you know but that's why. that's why i admire steph and i got mad. love and respect for steph. because you know. steph curry in his run.

he had to be arguably. the greatest player ever. doing doing my run i had to be arguably. the greatest four players ever at that. time. you know magic kareem on the same team. right and you know dr. j you know jordan people don't realize. like. you know back in the day dr j was like.

you know thought of as. the doctor dr j was jordan before. joining with jordan. exactly everybody and you wore those. weapons so you remember the cons. if you didn't have a pair of cons dr j. khan's exactly what you made you weren't. yeah he had no shoes. cause nike you know nike became when. jordan you know they they made the shoe. for jordan they took off then. but we're proud of that everybody will. come or chuck taylor you probably had. chuck taylor's in high school. but but the cars the cars weren't it.

so i would say you know um you know. steph curry you know winning against. lebron james. you know to me that was a that was a. huge feat. for a small person uh to be able to. to defeat him you've enjoyed success on. a lot of different levels you're a great. college player great nba player you. coach. you are an exec what would you say. was the main reason why isaiah thomas.

was able to enjoy success. um. i would say uh uh. being grateful um you know having having. gratitude. and appreciating. what i what i have what i was able to. accomplish. understanding how difficult it was but.

truly being appreciative. of you know the life that. that i've that i'm leading and that i've. led i'm i'm living a life that. i never dreamed about i never knew it. existed. the type of life that i'm living and i'm. i'm truly grateful and thankful that. um i'm in this place and i don't take it. for granted. one more thing i said were you a trash. talker on the court. was that who a trash talker oh no i.

didn't i didn't have to talk trash. unless somebody was talking trash to. me now what i what i. what i was i i was uh. um i would definitely mess with your. mind. okay it's like um. i would i would i would always try to. break your trust. with with your teammate right you know. so. a lot of times you know you would know. the play that's being called.

and you'd say to the person who you. garden. i know your guy ain't gonna pass you the. ball because he'll never pass it anyway. so this is what i'm going to do i'm. going to leave you. wide open if you throw you the ball. he wouldn't pass you the ball people say. larry bird might have been the. greatest trash talker in nba history how. much did larry talk on the court. there talked a lot he didn't talk a lot.

he backed it up. and and i never seen a guy. come by come by our bench. and look at our coach and tell our coach. you gonna put him on me. you coach you make a mistake you sure. you want this guy to guard me. and get the ball and scroll now that's. ruining your confidence yeah yeah that.

that that's bad. isaiah i really appreciate you taking. time out today to stop and by club shay. shay give me. a couple of minutes of your time i. really appreciate it with you and your. family all. all the blessings we i get you a couple. of hours. uh you gave out 45 but i ain't going to. tell nobody. hey isaiah i really appreciate it bro. appreciate you too. all my life been grinding all my life. sacrifice. hustle pay the price wanna slice got the. roller dice that's why.

all my life i've been grinding all my. life all my life. been running all my life sacrifice plus. will pay the price. wanna slice got the rolling dice that's. why all. [Music]. you know what to do hit the subscribe. button to become an official member of. club shay shape. where we always do something before. tucson.