Piers Morgan x Candace Owens | Candace Ep 123

all right guys I'm really excited about this  because everybody sees him on the internet. he's always interviewing people he's quite  controversial but not really controversial. because he just hosts the controversies he's like  a Jerry Springer of YouTube it's been very very. effective Piers Morgan welcome to Candace oh it's  great to be here the I used to love Jerry Springer. I actually did America's Got Talent with Jerry  Springer I was a judge he was the host we both. lived at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel in Los Angeles  and we used to lie by the pool on our sandbeds and. plot global domination together so I take that  as a great compliment you should I was shocked.

when I learned that he was a Brit well not only  that was he born here during the second world war. by the way during the Blitz in one of the subway  tunnels um but Jerry was a fascinating guy he was. the mayor of Cincinnati he was a TV serious news  anchor for many years and then he got asked by the. network can you just do this pilot for this crazy  new show he didn't really want to do it he did it. and it became so unbelievably successful and made  so many hundreds of millions of dollars he could.

never leave it alone but he used to say to me  it is the worst show on TV but it's making me. unbelievably rich and uh it was a fascinating  story he was a really interesting character. actually yeah he's a legend I mean you just can't  deny it he did something totally different and. yeah it was trashy TV but also we all grew up  watching it at some and there was an honesty to. it you know where people everyone knew what was  going on they all went on for a reason to have. their moment they wanted to have their moment and  their story and who are we to be snobbish enough. to say you're not allowed to We only listen to  Beyonce these days it's like you know it was.

kind of egalitarian I liked it yeah I agree so I  think the critique that people would have of you. is they don't really know what you believe like  are you a chronic fence sitter do you actually. believe anything or do your opinions just go  to return the to return this little passive. aggressive hand movement uh I'm a journalist and  what I've realized especially in the last two or. three years as the YouTube side of what I've done  has got bigger and bigger I've I've reverted back. much more to being a journalist I don't think  journalists should be ideological about the.

news i' like to have people on who are ideologues  right and left I like to be the ring Master to. their debates as you said the the Jerry figure if  you like um but I've become far less probably in. my head far less inclined to position myself to  left or right if you'd ask me 3 four years ago i'. have said look my natural politics are probably  a little lesser Center but the woke have been.

so insane that rather like Bill Mah I now get  identified by the left as conservative because. actually I'm just not prepared to entertain any of  the woke Madness and in that process the pendulum. of my personal politics has probably shifted much  more Central if not slightly center right but if. you ask me what I am I don't say a conservative  or liberal or any of these things now I say I'm. a journalist and my job is to actually hold  everyone to account and I think we do that in. a way that's actually reasonably unique now in the  the world that we're in I'm the one that holds all.

these big debates they get very fiery but we get  everybody on and I like that I actually think you. are doing a tremendous job I have to say that I  wasn't so keen on peers four years ago but I think. this year you have actually proven yourself to be  very even just hosting both sides allowing both. people to speak and not giving into sort of the ad  homin and attacks the things that are dismissive. like you will call out someone and say this is  not debating you're just calling this person. names so you I also know like someone like you  for example right you people ask about you and.

they say well she's this this this and this what  I've learned is don't necessarily buy into those. narratives go and actually do your own research  work out what these people actually said see. the context of which they said it see what their  explanation was for why they said it often leads. you to a very different conclusion than the ones  that people like to easily pigeonhole people into. and that again is something I've had to learn I  was I used to be very judgmental as a newspaper.

editor in particular and I think I've tried to  be less judgmental now I have lots of opinions. but when it comes to individuals in particular  let me just find out myself and I think that is. a healthy thing to do in a world where there's a  lot of AD hobin and a lot of twisting going on a. lot of little cuts that appear I see it myself  about about me and I often say to people I know. you think I'm really controversial but what is the  view of mind that you find most controversial and. when they try and answer they really struggle  because all they've seen is me on Tik Tok and.

someone shouting and blah they haven't actually  listened to what My Views are that's exactly. right and I think we saw that definitely I know  I defended you on my show a long time ago when. everything went down and you got fired and the  media was spitting this as if you were a racist. I that all the things that you could have said  about beer Morgan I was like okay he's suddenly. a racist now it was so Preposterous and in fact  worse than what happened to me was what happened. to Sharon Osborne if you remember at the talk who  Cheryl Underwood and the show is now being canned.

I'm pleased to say because it really died that day  when they did this because it's a show called The. Talk you're supposed to be allowed to talk Sharon  just supported me she didn't even say she agreed. with what I said about Mega Marco although  now ironically I'd have been fired for saying. the complete opposite if I said I believed Mega  Markle after the opr interview people would now. fire me for believing Pinocchio right so at the  time it was seemed so contentious and outrageous. to disbelieve her or to think a lot of what she  was saying couldn't possibly be true um now it.

doesn't seem that way but Sharon all she did was  say I support peer we've been friends for a long. time we worked again on America's Got Talent  with Jerry and she was just showing a bit of. loyalty to me without actually getting into what  I'd said and then Cher what even supporting with. these racist things he said and she hang on hang  on what racist thing did he say and it all blew. up she got blindsided all and she got fired from  a talker job she loved for having the audacity. to support me even though everyone knew I hadn't  said a racist thing not one word Sher Underwood.

couldn't actually say what it was I was supposed  to said that was racist it was utterly shameful of. CBS to do what they did to Sharon that day and  the Fallout from that whole Oprah interview if. you watched the whole sequence of events really a  shocking attack on freedom of speech it's really. what it came down to you could say something right  now I'm entitled to say I don't believe you right. and you're entitled to say well I'm right because  boom boom boom boom boom but the idea that your.

first reaction is if you don't believe me you're  racist because I'm not white so sorry what that's. the criteria I'm not allowed to disbelieve  you because of your skin color that's how. Preposterous it was you know what it's it's really  interesting because obviously I kind of made my. mark as a black woman who was anti- BLM from the  very beginning because I saw this I saw this this. budding and people who sort of were taking this  perspective that black people became Untouchable. after the George Floyd you they're allowed to  steal a flat screen TV from Target you can't.

criticize that and if you do it's because you're  a racist not because you have some basic dignity. and morals uh but I'm seeing the same thing now  it kind of has changed definitely post October. 7th and I've I've seen those same accusations  where it's like okay well if you're critiquing. this foreign nation in BB Netanyahu of course none  of us would want our Jewish friends to be harassed. but it's the same exact same woke game of well you  criticize the Israeli government you must be anti. yeah you hate juice and it works the other way too  I see it on both sides but this is where we've got.

to and it's the same with the Trans debate about  trans athletes in women's sport we may get to that. but I felt very strongly about that that any any  attempt to challenge the accepted view that this. is fair and rational to allow biological men to  put their hands up say they're women and compete. in women's sport and and Hammer women into the  ground literally with their fists in boxing rings. in the Olympics the idea if you do that you are  transphobic that you have a hatred of trans people.

I just find completely outrageous and it's being  used more and more by the woke left as a form of. as Elon calls it a form of Communism really this  is communism at Bay I call it fascism it's the. same kind of thing in the sense of it's a group  of militant people who are trying to shut down. any descent trying to make everyone see the world  through their narrow prism be communism or fascism. it's the same mindset and we will destroy people  who do not conform to what we have laid down is.

the new rule book for life and people who believe  in freedom of speech and freedom and democracy you. have to fight this with every inch of your life  because if we don't we will go down that path. of Communism or fascism of that of that control  world that they want and that that way Madness. lies all right guys taking a moment to remind  you about pre-born because every baby's life. is a precious gift full of potential and dreams  that are waiting to unfold that's why pre-born. the nation's largest pro life organization is on  the front lines for atrisk babies and mothers that.

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center saving countless lives for years to come  and now pre-born will match your gift doubling the. donation amount to donate dial pound 250 and say  the keyword baby again that's pound 250 baby or. you can donate securely at preborn dcom Candace  again that's preborn docomond you know actually. going back to your point about Sharon the peer  pressure that you're speaking about at the top. is it's really important to speak to this because  in a way you either conform or you get fired once.

you get to a certain uh level in life and uh  we obviously saw this with you it's like either. you say good things about Megan Markle because  right now we're at the tail in of BLM and you. can't insult a woman who's doesn't even if I'm  looking objectively look black um wouldn't have. guessed she was black if she didn't offer it but  um you're seeing that with Sharon Osborne it's. like okay well you now have to make a decision  are you going to be a decent human being and a. good friend and be honest about the fact that you  know this man you've known him for years and he's. not a racist or are you going to say well you  know Pier shouldn't have said the thing pece of.

your soul dies but at least you get to keep your  career we're seeing people confronted with that. well I was told very categorically by ITV here uh  who are the NBC of the UK uh they said look if you. apologize for disbelieving her you can keep your  job um and I said well I'm not going to do that. which I think they probably knew and I literally  left that afternoon I it was a faded compete you. you apologize you keep the job in other words you  grovel you groel to Megan marle who unbeknown to.

me had written a personal letter to the chief  executive of the company who was a woman and. had said to her I write to you as a woman and as  a mother you have to fire him and I wasn't told. that in the deliberations that went on that day  had I known that I would have gone public with. the whole thing and had a very different argument  with them I would have just dug my heels in and. went you can really allow this Duchess to decide  who works at ITV um I only found this out after. the event two days later that would have changed  how things played out quite significantly but what.

was interesting was and in the moment it was  also febra uh it was kind of chaotic in May. air and it was leading the news and everything  else and I just remembered it turned on a dime. in about 24 hours I began walking around I felt  like the pi Piper there were literally people. bus drivers tooting horns cab drivers cheering me  public coming across roads to hug me to shake my. hand because they understood that actually what  it was about was a battle for free speech and. they understood that if you want to be actually  British or American obviously but if you want to.

be British actually you got to fight for free  speech this is what Churchill fought the Nazis. about freedom and democracy and Free Speech people  lost their lives on battlefields so that we have. the right to actually exercise our right to free  speech and this played really strongly with the. public I had a book out it had just come out I  remember it was like number 2,000 on the Amazon. chart just first few days it went to number one  in three days and it's stayed there for weeks.

and sold a huge amount of copies cuz the book  was called wake up and it was a claring call to. the liberal left to wake up and stop this woke  Madness before it was too late and I'm almost. going to another book going told you right because  you look at the scale of Trump's win in the US. election and you one of the reasons was cost of  living obviously one was illegal immigration but a. third big plank of this was the basic destruction  of the woke mind virus they brought in a vaccine. Trump and Elon Musk you know who basic I know  you won't like the an allergy to a vaccine but.

they vaccinated the the M the woke mind virus  in spectacular fashion and a lot of young men. in particular went I'm just done with this  I'm sorry I'm just done with this crap it's. not based on fact I'm not going to be bullied  anymore into going along with this nonsense and. I'm going to exercise my right to freedom and  freedom of speech and freedom of thought and. expression and I think that was really important  part of that election actually and I'm very glad. glad to have seen it I've just noticed some things  being someone that's married to an Englishman that.

there there are these slight differences across  the pond and it's it's hard for people to really. understand what those differences are but there  is no battle for free speech in the UK I would say. it's already lost and I think that's why you're  a very interesting character because you're quite. American what I would say spiritually I would say  you're American in that you kind of take the fight. to the front you'll Stand by Your principles and  British Society is can be quite complacent I would. almost say they prefer to be polite rather than to  fight and what we're seeing happening here now in.

terms of speech what's happening with Kier starmer  uh the censorship that's being called for it's. quite appalling but I don't really understand in  the fabric of England how it's possible to change. that or go the other direction we have a very  strong establishment in this country which is. a bit of an anathema to Americans um don't really  understand it it comes down from the Royal Family. from um from a sense of class that we have in this  country of privilege of wealth you know going back.

to the wealthy land owners who ruled the roost  and The Peasants were all doing all the hard. graft and it's not like that anymore but certainly  there's still this sense of the establishment and. if you dare to take on the establishment then  you can end up in very hot water very quickly. and people here are probably naturally slightly  more polite than Americans about these things. slightly more reverential we still do our cap to  the monarchy which you find completely absurd um.

although I always think if it hadn't been for Mad  King George III you would still have a monarchy. and you might even have King pier and wouldn't  things be better for America if you did um but I. think the the yeah I think it's a fair criticism  that Americans do tend to have that that's why I. think one of the Great Moments of the election for  Trump was the fight fight fight when he got shot. was that instinctive combative streak of fight we  are an nation of Fighters here too but we've been. battered into submission particularly on issues  like free speech I feel very uncomfortable when.

I see people you know grandmothers being rounded  up and put in prison for something they put. on Facebook even if what they're putting is  offensive and horrible and vile actually as. Churchill himself said you know the thing about  free speech is it's not listening to stuff that. you agree with it's about the ability to hear  things you really don't agree with vehemently. but accepting that someone's right to free speech  now I I get there are lines about incitement to. hatred and violence of course there are but really  old people gobbing off on Facebook they're going. to prison when you think about types of people  who don't go to prison these days I think a lot.

of people in Britain feel uncomfortable about  this creeping censorship and as someone who. lost his job big job here over a really crude  example of censorship that's an example where. ironically the the UK regulator for television  which again Americans wouldn't understand what. that concept is but we have a television regulator  called ofcom who regulate how people can behave on. the Airways they ended up finding in my favor and  said that had I not been able to say what I said.

that day on Good Morning Britain about Mega Marco  it would have been a chilling infringement of my. free free speech rights but why is a media company  having to be told that by the television regulator. completely bizarre so I do think that look you  have the First Amendment which is an amazingly. strong powerful tool um and I think that we lack  something like that here and I think it's really. you know Elon Musk has done a lot of stuff on  this on on X I don't agree with all of him about. about what he's saying but I certainly think  he's hid onto something which is the natural.

instinct these days is to censor people and that's  a dangerous path to go down take me through like. your typical day I think people want to know  who you are off the clock because you obviously. are very involved you follow politics you are  definitely giving a platform to people to at. least expand their mind even if they don't agree  they're hearing different version of events but. who are you actually off the clock well I like I  said I've been a journalist all my life so I see. myself as a a I'm I'm a news junkie so when I was  seven or eight years old we used to get the Daily.

Mail newspaper just a print paper then obviously  and my mom remembers we going through it me I'm. 7 years old going through Reading out headlines  in a daily mail and asking about the story that's. not normal so I had it in my blood there were a  few journalists in my in my on my mother's side. and the family and I I had this News Junkie side  to me I had to know what was happening you might. call it I'm an inveterate gossip and that's  partly to do with wanting to be the first with. information and then to tell people what could be  more exciting than being the first to know stuff.

and then imparting it to the world so it was in my  blood and even today I get five newspapers through. the every day on my doormat and I love I used to  run two big newspapers in in the UK um two big. National papers for 10 years and I love the sound  of a thud of newspapers which I know sounds very. sons are 31 27 24 they don't read print newspapers  obviously they just read everything on their.

phones or whatever it may be so I'm part of  a Dying generation of people who still like. newspapers but I love the thud of five newspapers  I get the times the telegraph The Daily Mail the. sun and the financial times and they hit like  a thud and it still gets my juices flowing and. it's often early like at 5: in the morning  I get up early sleeping is cheating I get up. early and I read the and I PA four over them  with my old editor eye just for seeing what's.

going on then I'm onto my phone I'm checking  all the American sites New York po New York. Times Daily News whatever it may be LA Times  I'm checking X obviously see what's going on. checking what you're up to what Mayhem you're  causing and a few of the big people in my space. and just seeing who's doing what and what Clips  are flying around what's trending and so by like. 7 in the morning I've had a really good Snapshot  not just of what's Happening Here um which I only. do out of habit really because all my material  is now aimed to an American audience primarily.

um but I like that I live here most of the time  I've got a place in La and I go to America for 3. four months of a year but I still consider this  my home um but I love to know the new so by 7: a.m. I know everything that's happened and I know  where I should be thinking about what I should be. doing on my show and by then maybe like at 10:00  my showrunner Alex will call me and he'll talk me. through what the plan is for the show some of the  bookings I'll have been involved with others will. be new to me we have a mixture of one-on-one and  debates um today's a classic example we've got you.

one-on-one we've got Eric Weinstein one-on-one we  have a big debate about Israel Gaza and where we. are with all that and bringing in uh uh Iran and  Ukraine and then we're going to have a big debate. about America and probably actually factoring in  on Trump and this $15 million payout he got from. ABC which is an extraordinary moment for Legacy  Media when they're having to hand Donald Trump. a11 million $50 million check for calling him  a rapist which is what they've all been doing.

with impunity for years I think these are kind  of fascinating water cooler subjects so that's. the day pretty well planned out but as you know  anything can happen you know I've been there. quietly congratulating myself on I'm show well  done come back home maybe open a bottle of fine. French Bordeaux have a little glug and then I hear  Trump just got shot and then you know and I know. okay well that's the next three weeks gone then  and everything changes so I love that again I love. the the the D dynamism of the news where things  can change in a heartbeat literally and um through.

the day I'll then keep reading stuff talking  to people might you know speak to a few people. who've got a particular expert view about any of  these issues you get a sense of what they think. um you're always trying to cut through all the  partisan noise and the people on the extremities. of debate now the thing about X is I think under  Elon might be a bit better now but it used to be. that 10% of the people on X made 80% of a noise  and you think about that and they're normally. skewing to the extremities a lot of extreme noise  going on and you need to cut through that and get.

to an underbelly of more interesting and rational  debate with people to know what they're talking. about you might not agree with them but I always  want to get a sense like when you and I debate I. often think I don't agree with you but actually  it's a really interesting debate right right. you've put the yards in to formulate your opinion  you're not just thinking of the first thing you've. seen on TI Tok and I think that's they're the  type of guests I like if I like it more if I don't. agree with them because it's more interesting  you got a little journey of exploration and I.

also don't like to be now and this is not how I  used to be used to be very intransigent I we come. to some of my more intransigent moments which I  don't look back on in glory but I certainly feel. like I want to learn from people I often end the  debate Now by saying to people do you know what. I've learned so much from that debate and that  was really interesting and you especially when you. have two sets of people who know the facts but are  interpreting those facts differently but they're. not challenging the reality of what happened  they're just saying in my opinion this means.

XY Z and the other person goes no no no it means  boom boom boom try to work out actually what does. it mean you know people often say to me if you  go back to the start of the Israel and Palestine. conflict and say 48 and go back a lot further but  say you go back to 48 you could construct a very. good argument for both sides over the next  75 years you could if you were just sitting. back and just taking a set of facts and trying to  present the the argument for the defense of Israel. or the Palestinians you could do a powerful piece  for both and it was a Jewish journalist called.

Jonathan fredland who actually said that which  I thought was interesting um and I sort of agree. with that about almost all issues and the the  challenge is to really get into the the weeds of. these debates analyze the facts hear the different  opinions and then hopefully the depending on the. power of the argument the viewers at home a they  learn a lot which is really a perfect show for. me where they're learning things but B they  can formulate their own opinions and it maybe. they go one it maybe they go the other it maybe  they sit somewhere in the middle that's that to.

me is a really good debate do you owe back  taxes pandemic relief is now over along with. the hiring of thousands of new agents and field  officers the IRS has kicked off 2024 by sending. over 5 million pay up letters to those who have  unfiled tax returns or balances owed do not wave. your rights and speak with them on your own they  are not your friends obviously tax Network USA a. trusted tax relief firm has saved over $1 billion  in back taxes for their clients and they can help.

you secure the best deal possible so whether you  owe $10,000 or $10 million they can definitely. help you whether it's business or personal even  if you have the means to pay or on a fixed income. they can help finally resolve your tax burdens  once and for all so call 1800 958 1000 for a. private free consultation or visit TN usa.com  Candace again that's TN usa.com Candace yeah. but what do you actually think about it Israel  and Palestine I think removing your journalistic.

hat which I know that you have been very even  on a human level I'll tell you what I think. I think that October the 7th is one of the worst  things I've ever seen I think the retribution as I. call it by Israel has now gone Way Beyond what is  acceptable um I take issue with people that want. to frame it as genocide purely from a technical  point of view that actually the definition of. genocide would mean that you know if is had killed  a million people I could accept the argument this.

is a Bonafide genocide it's more complex for me  as a journalist when I look at this and compare. it to other other genocides and I compare it to  other Wars that if you take the central argument. of Israel which is put aside everything that  happened before if you take the October the. 7th and the scale of it with 250 people being  kidnapped including babies and Holocaust Survivors. with 3,000 people coming over the Border attacking  indiscriminately people killing 1,200 and wounding.

nearly 7,000 more if you take the scale of what  happened Hamas knew what Israel was going to do. by way of response Hamas indisputably have buried  themselves into civilian areas quite deliberately. for self-protective reasons and Israel has  been I don't think they've been anything but. indiscriminate actually in a lot of their attacks  on these areas particularly on the refugee camps. I think it's completely uncontable some of the  stuff they've done there um and I think that. it's gone on way too long and it has to stop  and I think I always ask people throughout.

the debates what is a proportionate response I  didn't have the answer I didn't know what what is. the correct proportionate response to the scale  of October the 7th and that's before you factor. in the background and the history and what people  see as the occupation of the Palestinians and the. appalling plight of 2 million Palestinians in Gaza  for so long it doesn't factor in that it's just am. I do this what is the proportionate respons that's  acceptable I think Israel's gone Way Beyond what.

is acceptable however I understand their argument  that they are responding to as they see it a henus. terror attack and they have vowed to get rid of  the Hass terrorists who did this and that the only. way to do that is to do it the way they're doing  it and I understand that that is their argument. and I understand that that to me is different to  a country waging a wholesale genocide of a people. so I think it's complicated and I don't have all  the answers but as we sit here now this has to.

stop the leveling of Gaza has gone completely out  of control I mean a lot of Gaza is unoccupied now. I think the aggressive expansion on the west Banks  has been a form of terrorism which is completely. unacceptable I think some of the language of some  of the cabinet members has barded on genocidal and. I think that there are clearly some members of  that net Yahoo cabinet who actually would have. no problem if all the Palestinians left Gaza right  now and so I you know I'm not saying that there's.

not a potential for a form of genocide to be here  you know we might look back at this in two years. and you might say to me well we told you this  is this is genocide what they've done they've. got rid of all the Palestinians that could happen  and I I pray that doesn't happen and I pray that. as I've always felt the only way through this  ultimately is fresh leadership on all sides as. we saw in Northern Ireland after many decades of  horrific war between the IR and the Loyalists that. ultimately they got to peace because leaders  like Clinton and Blair and all these guys came.

together and they were just determined to get it  and they managed to get a piece now where people. in Northern Island live in relative peace and  safety and they live amongst each other people. that used to be at war with each other it would  be amazing to think that could happen uh but I. think we're a long way off that there now so I  that's my honest that's my honest human I think. that was honest view it I have a good I have a  good radar for honesty I think you're being very. honest and I think it takes a lot tremendous for  you to even say it because it's so strange to me.

that we've gotten to a point where people are too  fearful to say that what's happening has gone too. far because they're scared of losing their jobs  and this really shows and I mean I call it lud. Party media in America they they have this sort  of strangle hold on the media and they sort of. just will liable you and smear you and pretend  that you're like a Nazi sympathizer which gets. really crazy but what we are recognizing now and  you can sense their frustration is that media game. has changed nobody cares anymore with the writing  nobody cares who who they're smearing who they're.

liing it actually in many ways when they do these  sorts of attacks and they're not based in reality. it helps the person you know like the person is  um given further belief further Credence because. people go okay well they took all of these fire  and all these bullets because they said something. that was true and something that was Humane what  do you think where do you think the trajectory of. media in America is going because I think Legacy  Media is in massive trouble I mean you know this. million payout babyc to Trump for lying about him  is a real turning point right because Trump's win.

was so big and so across the board and such a  repudiation of the Legacy Media he basically. did it by going on YouTube and podcasters um he  just just circumnavigated the traditional roots. of running a presidential campaign and it was  incredibly effective um but also it's it's the. boy that cried wolf you know I just remember  back to the first two years of Trump's first. ter when it was just Russ collusion Russia when  you say things often enough and the public buy.

into it and then it turns out to be there was no  Russia collusion Trump didn't work with Russians. to fix the election it was all just lies um and I  think a lot of the media knew it was Lies when you. perpetrate that scale of lie for so long but with  such obvious zealous enthusiasm to bring him down. and I think that was what struck me was whatever  you think of trump and I've gone back a long way. with Donald Trump and I can see the good bad and  ugly of him and he's got all fre well I think he's. become a chang man since the shooting and since  the election and we can maybe come to that but.

it's very interesting to watch if someone who's  known him a long time but I think that the if you. read Trump's book The Art of the deal his whole  thing is if you punch me I'm going to punch you. 10 times back so for the first two three years  of his of his presidency everyone just punched. him from Legacy Media morning noon and night  because he got 10 punches back it was all great. copy for newspapers it was great it was great  juice for the cable news it was all great sport. but how did it serve the American people it didn't  and in the end Trump says he won 2020 I don't.

think he did I think that Biden won by default  because of the pandemic and the Fallout from. that and it was very close anywhere and it could  go either way but ultimately I think um Trump lost. it but the scale of his win this time shows that  people had a lot of buyers remorse about Biden a. lot of a lot of probably sellers remorse about  Trump that actually despite all his rhetorical. issues and he let's put that politely um that  despite that he as a blunt instrument who gets.

stuff done he can be very effective and I you know  I've often had arguments with people about the way. he conducts foreign policy with America the way  he goes and talks to Putin and Kim Jong-un and. and G I like this I think it disarms them they're  not quite sure what to make of trump I suspect. they're far more fearful of trump as a consequence  of their personal relationships and his known. unpredictability than they are about the far more  conventional well you're all bad guys we're going. to treat you like bad guys and that's it so I  think that Trump has them oddly wrapped around.

his rather cunning finger and I think it could be  quite effective in the way he conducts his foreign. policy um but I also think that when it comes  to things like his Natural Instinct for the wall. immigration cost of living all the basic stuff  the woke stuff you know him saying I just ban. all trans a women's SP great great and I think a  lot of Americans were yes yes it shouldn't even be. ambiguous and obviously if we're doing 10 million  illegal immigrants across the border in four years. that can't be good for America how can that be  we need good immigration of course we do we can't.

sustain this and we' got the same problem in this  country you raise it we nearly a million people. came in last year in this country net migration  completely unsustainable for a little island of. 67 million people uh and yet if you raise concerns  about it you're a racist and that's why people. like Nigel farage are getting more and more  popular because people have begun to think well. they're not racist are they I mean I don't think  he is um I think he's someone who's banged this. drum about the danger of uncontrolled migration  for a long time and a lot of leaders around the.

world now realizing that people like him and Trump  were right to bang that drum um and it doesn't. make you racist to be concerned about it so I  think all these things are kind of flying around. and in the middle of it I've been sitting there  going who am I now right what does this make me. right what what politically where do I sit in all  this and it's it's an interesting question of self. analysis I don't really know the the clear answer  other than it's easier for me to go back to being.

a journalist and not to really try and work out  where I sit because the pendulum has been wildly. moving around people that used to be considered  on the left Bill Mah are they now is Bill Mah. leftwing he might still want to be called that I  love bill but actually I would say he's certainly. Centrist at best arguably on a lot of the stuff  now you could almost argue on the pendulum he. might be slightly center right um that's how far  the woke left have taken things they've driven.

people like me and Bill who were conventional  liberals to think well we have nothing in common. with you people all right guys if you're feeling  stressed about giving your family a memorable. holiday You Are Not Alone prices remain higher  than ever and a lots of Americans are maxing out. their credit cards now is the perfect time to  take control of your finances and pay off that. debt if you're a homeowner American Finance it  can help you unlock the equity in your home and. you can start saving right now their customers  save on average 8 $800 a month just imagine what.

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so you've been in the room with a lot of powerful  people getting to Trump and and knowing his. personality and you're definitely reading the  te leads correctly who is the worst person that. you've been around I mean youve I mean just to for  people that are watching this I mean you partied. back in the day with everyone from Madonna I mean  you have been around some very powerful people. she's awful she is awful Madonna's awful I am she  she's inherently awful Ian she's put a picture out.

today of a faked AI picture of I think the pope  croping her or something that's classic Madonna. it's just the worst kind of pathetic attention  seeking guaranteed to enrage Catholics like me you. it's like why would you do that it's so pathetic  so purile so attention seeking and that's been. her whole raise on debt she used to be great pop  star back in in her 20s but now she's just a total. embarrassment but I don't really think she's like  I don't call her by the definition of what you're. after is that a dangerous bad person no it's just  a it's an attention seeking increasing irrelevance.

you know bad bad people are people Bad actors  in the world are people who genuinely have a. malevolent worldview that they have the ability to  execute you know when you think back to what Isis. were doing for example for the first 20 years of  this Century that's inherently evil what they were. doing and you can call out the leaders of Isis  and say you are inhuman subhuman evil people who. are trying to get this caliphate which just has no  tolerance of anything I mean the Western like the.

people that have power in the west come to that  obviously we have so you have the obvious Bad. actors on the world stage in terms of people um  who are running countries of my biggest problem is. not that they're bad is that they're incompetent  which can be as bad want to hear Elon mus talk. about this a lot he's so brilliantly competent he  operates at such a high level of competence that. he finds incompetent people incredibly irritating  and I know EX what he means I think if you look. around leadership around the world there a  lot of incompetent people I don't necessarily.

think they're bad I mean Angela Merkel is a good  example right I wouldn't say she was a bad person. she's not unintelligent she just turned out to be  incredibly incompetent and cus a lot of Mayhem for. her country despite being lorded in real time um  desender Aron remember the prime minister of New. Zealand was lorded as the covid heroin um because  of all her extreme lockdown views and so on and. so on but history has not been kind to her either  so I think a lot of people it comes down to basic. competence one of the problems of Boris Johnson  here in this country was he's just a general.

shambolic character the the level of competence  seemed very low Trump first time around seemed. chaotic and therefore stroke potentially a problem  for competence this time he's surrounding himself. with incredibly High performing competent people  like Elon that's what makes it really interesting. to me and that's why I think his next term could  be genuinely transformative and people might say. Trump's a bad guy I don't think he is a bad  guy I think he's somebody who had the wrong.

people around him first time around and was being  beaten up so mercilessly by the media that he's. only respons to go after them with equal Venom  this time I see he's calmer he's better organized. he's chosen his cabinet in record time he's chosen  people who are disruptive but they're smart and. they're just going to operate on a different way  to establishment people would do but he's got Elon. Musk sitting there helping him all the way with  all this stuff it's a lethal combination Trump's. instincts and elon's ability and instincts to  operate at a very elite level so do you think.

I'm just going to push back on the Elon Musk thing  and I'm not even pushing back I just find myself. puzzled about it I wonder if we're attributing  too much superheroism to Elon Musk because he. did this amazing thing having fre fre the bird I  think he actually might be a superhero cuz see I. think V ramaswami is a superhero well I like him  too yeah but Elon Musk I'm just I sort of but look. at his achievements what do I know about Elon Musk  really let me help you let me help you answer that. question what you know is almost every business  he starts everyone condemns it to immediate.

failure everyone thinks it's destined to fail it  cannot be achieved it's always done on a massive. grandio scale with a massive grandio plan and he's  delivered I mean look at SpaceX SpaceX is probably. the most coveted company in the world right now by  every other successful business person if you ask. them they all think SpaceX is the company in the  world and he built that and people said it's never. going to work this is going to you throw good  money off to bad it's never going to work look. at what SpaceX does around the world now look at  the satellite systems never mind anything else are.

just on a different level to anything we've seen  you know he's even I saw the other day planning. to help with the countryside issue in the UK if  you live in the countryside you don't get a phone. signal he said I'll saw that for you right he  just thinks I'll fix Britain and his phone signal. that's how he thinks I sat with him in France this  summer for a couple of hours and he was talking. about neuralink and what that does and SpaceX and  what it does and Tesla and what the again Tesla. was rubbish to start with everyone said this is  never going to work now it's the most successful.

green energy car company in the world and  obviously cars will go that way he's just ahead of. everybody and he understands you can't do it all  at once and all these other things but again an. amazingly transformative huge big picture business  that he's built then you look at X and what he's. done there where most amazing stat the other day  has gone from 67% Democrat 32% Republican on X to. know pretty well 5050 that's Elon Musk he's he's  he's redressed the balance he's made it easier for.

conservatives not to be deplatformed and removed  just because of their political allegiance um. again so he's he's he's he's democratized if you  like this very undemocratic but massively popular. powerful social media tool so I look at all the  things he's been doing and I think actually what's. the common thread here all of it is a Force for  good all of it ultimately is designed to save us. from ourselves it is colonizing Mars human robots  all these other things he's doing but look at the. thing the space rocket when it landed in the  Cradle right just the sheer mindblowing scale.

of ambition that musk has and he he believes  will get to Mars in his lifetime and will start. colonizing and he thinks it's really important  so my point is if you look at it what what is. a superhero a superhero is somebody who thinks on  a massively big scale for the good of the people. and often saves the people from themselves by that  criteria I'm not saying he's a perfect human being. he can be difficult and all the rest of it of  course he can and he wouldn't say he's pervert. himself but by a superhero criteria right now in  the world who is having a bigger transformative.

superhero world right now than Elon Musk who  give me a name who's doing more good for the. world than well no there's no question that's why  I want to separate because I totally agree that he. is tremendously successful and is contributing  things to the world that are amazing you could. never take that away from him and what he did for  uh Twitter X whatever freed the bird I I honestly. think he saved like Western Civilization we were  so close like it was really a dark period postco.

what I'm saying is to immediately translate  that into would you want this person to be in. government well Elon musk's views despite all of  these amazing accomplishments in the past actually. he was left leaning yeah right so despite all this  Brilliance actually he kind of was going along. with the thing until the thing kind of ate one of  his kids and then he was like wait what's going. on okay but so was Trump to a degree you know  so was Trump no Trump was always a businessman. he was always about his money he was never a  lefty woke okay but Trump did sign up for Save.

the assault weapons man he agreed with that what  I'm saying like he was you know you look at these. Joe Rogan you look at all these people there's  a lot of people RFK Tulsi Gaba a lot of people. that you might have said well sort of Leaning  Democrats really who but that's fine what I'm. just saying is that actually I would like to flush  out what his ideas are more because I and I and I. say this by the way I'm saying this from like a  religious perspective because I actually am not. keen on the humanist agenda I'm not keen on  neuralink I'm not keen on all that stuff yeah.

I par people can communicate which is what it's  about I just think it's a it's a step too far. yeah I'm not I'm not keen on that yeah see I  like it it's it's sort of the bigger equation. when we start talking about IVF and a big debate  that's waging here by the way I think you guys. just approved it right the death pods I just have  understand I'd like to hear more about that so. it's not really a judgment against him it's just  more like okay now that you're in government AC. I really would like to pier and understand more  about what you believe and crucially because he's.

not in government right so he's slightly detached  what I do think is if I would put money on anyone. to slash unnecessary bureaucracy and spending  in the federal government it would beon musk I. wish he come here and do it here I'm very pleased  about him in I mean I have one question if we put. Elon Musk in charge of the National Health Service  here what would happen I can absolutely guarantee. he turn it around the guy is a genius so I think  he is a superhero it doesn't come with no cave. yet but I don't think I've ever seen anyone well  it's very interesting with with musk is what I.

think you very rarely see that level of elite  brainpower that mixes with a love of being a. celebrity which he clearly does and Limelight with  the super chilling self-confidence to back himself. That's What I Love About Him He will bet the ranch  on his own gut instincts to a degree trumps a bit. like that and they'll just Barrel through all  the naysayers you go you can't do that cuz it's. never worked before they're like yeah we can and  they do it I like people like that they're not.

always going to be right but it's a bit like  the old Wayne Gretzky the ice hockey players. great quote you'll miss a 100% of the shots you  never take these guys take shot after shot after. shot in Trump's case literally took a shot for  democracy as he put it um and I think musk is. just an utterly fascinating character and when  I had a bit of time with him just with a little. group of of three of us um for an hour he was just  really interesting guy you know but you could see. he was looking at you and sometimes you think he's  gone a bit vacant he's and you're talking about.

whatever it is and he's thinking about colonizing  Mars literally his brain is moved to colonizing. Mars and he's probably just sort of something he  said an interesting thing he said like you have. to remember everything he said if you replicate  Earth if you forget one vitamin everyone dies out. there so you can't forget anything right it's like  really interesting but you know ultimately he says. you've got to have somewhere else to go otherwise  one day this won't exist then what do you do it's. over so he's trying to save us from ourselves I  like that all right so most of the time when a.

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which gets me into your beliefs you're a Catholic  I am I just found this out today I'm a Catholic I. was I was actually given spiritual guidance  by Catholic nuns when I was 11 and 12 that's. incredible for two years now is Faith still a  part of your life or would you say a bit of a. departure do you go to mass I go to mass but not a  lot I go to go to weekly Mass but I do go to mass. and my mother's still a very staunch Catholic  raised us all as Catholics I believe in God I. I believe in in Catholicism what it stands for  um yeah I mean I I we all do on my in my family.

a big Catholic Family and yeah I I take a lot  of comfort from it actually and I have a lot of. debates of people like Richard Dawkins and these  guys and I'm like you know ultimately it comes. down to this for me the atheist can never explain  to me what happened before nothing and because the. human brain cannot answer that question because  how can you there has to be an acceptance there. is a higher being there has to be otherwise you'd  be able to answer that question and they look at. me completely like enraged but I'm like no you  can't answer it because you could you you'd have.

to be a superior being to a human being to be able  to comprehend that kind of question so because we. can't comprehend it there has to be something  bigger around absolutely and I just think just. on on they love logic and I'm like well okay but  religion actually carries with it a lot of other. things other than just pure logic but just on the  logic alone that's why I'm right and you're wrong. I think he driv of nuts I make the exact same  argument I'm like God is like the most logical.

thing in the world cuz you can't explain to me  this so obviously there has to be someone yeah. and then I think it comes down to other things  which is what do you want out of religion out. of God you know I find it comforting to pray right  I've done I don't do it all the time I don't pray. every night but there are times difficult times  in your life when you just want to say a prayer. and I've had prayers answered and I've seen it  happen might be complete Coincidence of course. it might be but the power of having a faith that  somebody out there has that ability to help help. you is pretty strong and I think that people that  have that really feel it and if other people don't.

feel it and don't like it and don't want it okay  but why do you obsess as they all seem to do about. what we believe have your own non-belief and  believe in that you're fine but shut up about. it why does it bother you nothing to do with you  whether I believe in God or not right if you don't. fine if you think at the end of your life that's  it your worm food and nothing happens fine I will. die a lot happier than you cuz I think there's  a lot of good stuff waiting for me up there and. that makes me feel good you must as you get nearer  and nearer death feel absolutely bloody terrible.

because you're thinking that's it forever and  you can't even say what forever is because you. haven't got any faith I don't think anybody dies  in atheist I think in those final moments they're. like okay you know what I bet there's a little  conversion at the last minute exctly just in. case I'm wrong okay so I want to ask you this  question uh you like me have tons of kids lot. obviously which means that we have an investment  in what's going on a real investment what's going. on I think it's important to have children because  of this by the way because then the political.

discussions are more weighted and you're saying  things that are going to impact your children's. future um what would you say like and by the way I  want to say you're also a rare person that you've. been able to metamorphosize which is very rare  The Changing Times changing social economy now. we're online now you're on YouTube what would you  say is your biggest concern um biggest fear like. explicitly what is your biggest fear about the  direction of the world right now when you think. of that just as a parent I mean it's interesting  what you said about my my own Evolution a lot of.

us driven by my kids so when you have kids you  see how they operate you see how they read what. they consume what they watch I switch to YouTube  because I could see none of them watch TV and none. of them buy newspapers so I thought whoa hang on  and they're all light in their 30 in their 20s and. none of them are doing the stuff that I did what  are they doing oh they were watching this thing. called YouTube okay I about become a YouTuber  literally as simple as that they were like Dad. no none of our friends watch this TV stuff right  it's all through YouTube you realize that get on.

to YouTube dad and now they all watch it um so  they've kept you in it they've kept you in the. game oh I think kids not only keep you fresh and  alive and having a purpose but they also they also. make you less narcissistic a streak I've certainly  had over the years um because ultimately it's. about them not you and when you become a parent  you understand that and you become much more. concerned about their welfare and what's happening  to them than you do for yourself it's a good thing. for people to become parents for that reason  if nothing else it's the ego's solution I can.

tell you um but secondly in terms of what I care  about for them I think it's you know it's a lot of. things I think that I always try and remind them  because all of their friends have anxiety issues. and things it's interesting it's a generational  thing they're getting bombarded I that Jonathan. hate book about from 2010 how smartphones the  moment they became smart started bombarding kids. with all this negative dopamine stuff all the time  I think it's a real problem and I think that young. brains get scrambled by the constant negativity I  think about when I was young there were Wars going.

on but you never saw any of the graphic stuff you  had no way of seeing it it wouldn't be shown on. the relatively sanitized news broadcast there was  no internet there were no phones nothing else you. couldn't the newspapers wouldn't run the really  gory stuff now if you go on X in the middle of. and TA in Ukraine or Gaza or whatever the most  horrific stuff comes up all day long if you're. a young 17 18 year old exposed to that must have a  very corrosive effect on you and it must make you. start to catastrophize because you think this is  what everything in the world is is is like now the.

reality is the opposite interestingly in recorded  history this is by far the best time to ever be. alive there are fewer Wars at the moment raging  than in recorded history in the time period um. there's less child poverty water is cleaner and  killing less people there are less like insects. killing millions of people a lot of the insect  they killed people have been eradicated the the. death counts on those little things which could  have huge effects in in continents like Africa um.

people are living longer they're living healthier  they are better educated and so on and you go. through every metric of life and actually I could  present a compelling argument to these kids why. are you so anxious compared to every generation  that's gone before you you've never had it so good. and yet saying that is self-defeating because  they do feel bad and they do feel anxious and. a lot of it is around phones I've got no doubt  and we have to as a responsible Generation Now.

of people we have to understand that empathize  with them and help them get out of it and also I. think we have to attack head on the other aspects  of the woke mind virus which is so destructive the. participation prize culture where little Johnny  comes last in a race at school and gets given. a prize how does that prepare Little Johnny for  the real world because if you come last at work. let me tell you you get fired if you do it often  enough you don't get a prize your prize is you get.

given a cab home if you're lucky and that's it um  celebrating failure over success being ashamed of. being successful and beating your chest cuz  somehow that's something to be frowned upon. whereas if you lose somehow you're sort of vain  gloriously heroic well when did that start you. know people say I just passed my driving test at  the eighth attempt I'm so proud of myself really. why aren't you ashamed of yourself I keep that  ploty quiet if I were you what are you boasting. about eight times to how dumb are you and by the  way why are you driving I don't want you out on.

the road right and yet they're proud of themselves  and they share it and I see all the comments so. proud of your babes fantastic babes I'm not saying  it's just necessarily a woman it could be anybody. um but it's just like this constant celebration  of failure or weakness mediocrity mediocrity and. also this thing about you know you mustn't push  people to try and achieve their best because. it's bad for their mental health no what's bad for  their mental health is not being able to deal with. the real world so push people to be physically  and mentally strong as they can to deal with the.

reality my favorite speech in movies is Rocky  bboa to his son the the spoiled brat son in the. sixth movie when he finally has it out with him  in the street and he says life is not about how. hard you can hit life's about how hard you can get  hit get back up and keep moving forward that's how. winning is done we've lost that as a society now  it's like you throw yourself on the ground almost. punch yourself in the face lie there wallowing  in your own misery and everyone fawns all over.

you and celebrates your weakness how does that  help any part of that equation it doesn't so. we've begun become a society it's changing I think  that the Trump win again is a big moment in the. sand for this to say no actually and particularly  for young men you can be proud of being a young. man you don't have to hate yourself just because  every corporate woke marketing campaign told you. that you're all hateful losers until you can prove  you're not all a bunch of Harvey Weinstein running.

around right now men have being told it's okay to  be a guy and you can be proud and by the way and. if you are here are the things that you should do  to be to be a good man in life but you can beat. your chest a bit you can celebrate achievement  you can want to win you can celebrate winning. and you can hate losing actually it's fine to hate  losing nothing good about losing he wants to lose. let celebrate it so I do think there's all these  things where I feel there's a correction going. I feel like the woke worm has turned quite rapidly  since Trump's win in a way it became the Catalyst.

because everything Cara Harris stood for was all  this crap everything Biden stood for was all this. crap and that ad he did you know carel is for  they them trumps for you devastating devastating. because in one simple ad it told the story what  does they then mean there's only one person. sitting there how can one person be they them Sam  Smith can't remember if he's Sam him her or they. them must be incredibly confusing when he gets up  in the morning but why do we have to Pand to this.

[ __ ] right so no I'm I thought I was liberal  right but all this stuff just sounds completely. insane to me I think we're all just rational  because I find myself too I'm like I don't know if. I'm conservative because then I see conservatives  doing the woke stuff on anti-Semitism I'm like you. know what and then I find people on the left are  now following me and I go I think what's happening. is actually like nature is correcting and rather  than us seeing ourselves as you're on the left. you're on the right it's like are you sane are you  like a sane person in the middle yes I say I said.

look take take you you got you have like me have a  divisive reputation but I say if you ever actually. watch Candice right I mean I would say to people  when I tweet this just watch this do you get the. feeling you're in front of a screaming lunatic  right or not and of course that you're not right. so I'm not saying you're perfect and you wouldn't  say I am um but I don't see the characterization. of you that I read about you you have your moment  inside mine I had a hilarious conversation with. Trump the other day when he said you know P you're  a good guy said you have your bad moments and I.

went well don't we all Mr President and we were  laughing um and he accepted he said true true. true but it's um Everybody obviously has that um  but it's we live in a weird place now where your. your bad moments get massively Amplified and  all the other stuff which would counter that. in a normal conversation but you're down to Pub  with someone and you say something stupid but. then you say a lot of good stuff and oh actually  it's a good blow right you don't see any of that. all you see is the tribe seiz on the moment and  flam it out and say this is that person look how.

awful they are and it gets Amplified around the  world before anyone can stop it and before you. know it you're the most reviled human being on  Earth you're like how did that happen only for. a minute cancel culture is officially over I  think I OB it's been canceled which is amazing. which leads me to this last question for you peers  what is next for you I think you're quite amazing. you found this really sweet spot people people  look to you now they respect you for hosting the. debate you know and that puts you you're you're  in a unique position right now so what's next I.

feel excited about the potential for uncensored  actually I think I hit on a very good title for. my show I want to expand it I've looked at other  places in the digital space where they're getting. bigger and bigger obviously you're one of them um  you got to find your own thing what is your own. thing my thing is I'm not an idealogue coming  at it left or right and just pumping my view. about stuff and people coming on and talking to  me about that my view is I I am the ring Master. now to I think really important debates about  all the most important stuff in the world I also.

love doing the one-on ones with everyone from  whether it's Kanye to Trump to zinsky I don't. mind who it is I like sitting down with people  doing the longer form one-on ones too and that. combination all playing to what I think at my  core is what I am and what I'm now very proud. to celebrate more which is being a journalist  being a journalist who challenges everybody not. worrying about being boxed into left or right  or kind of position but actually just holding. everybody to account and trying to get that most  precious of things to come out which is the truth.

not my truth or their truth or mega markle's  version of a truth but the truth and once you. have the truth everyone can have an opinion when  you muck around with the truth and you lie about. facts which are incontrovertible that act doesn't  fly so I see myself now as the Great truthfinder. in the world on the YouTube and the internet  which is no bad thing I love it well you guys.

there we have it Pi's Morgan we got some opinions  actually solid I actually totally loved everything. that he said here so that is the we real Piers  Morgan uncensored thanks for joining us [Music].