Candace x Hunter Biden: The Interview

Hunter Biden. Welcome to the Candace Owens show. >> It's wonderful to be here. >> People are just going to be like, how on. earth did this happen? Right now. I got. to give them a bit of a backstory. So, I. um I I went to dinner with a fellow. podcaster, and we were just talking. about interviews cuz we don't do too. many interviews on the show, and he he. first asked me what was the best. interview I ever did, and I said, without question, the USS Liberty. survivor, Phil Tourney. And then he said, what would be your top. interview that you'd want to do? And I. said, oh gosh, we're in such a different. time now, like I'm just not interested.

in politics, like it would have to be. something so different. And then I said, actually, Hunter Biden. And I said I said that to. him, I watched your sit-down with Andrew. Callaghan. >> Yeah. And it was. kind of the most refreshing interview. that I had seen in politics for in a. very long time because we're so used to. being gaslit about various things. happening. Everyone's trying to hide. stuff, and we read a lot about you. I. guess we didn't really hear anything. from you. So, this was kind of the first.

time, but I heard you in your own words. just totally owning your addiction. issues, also going after Jake Tapper and. George Clooney, and when we were kind of. expecting the typical Democrat, like, these are great guys. These guys are. amazing. Jake Tapper should, you know, win a Pulitzer, I don't know. And I I. would just It wasn't what I was. expecting, is what I would say. So, uh. and then that person just sort of made. this happen. Yeah. So, I I want to just. sort of get into the Hunter Biden story. I will say to the audience right now, I.

have already uh made the pledge right. when I got on the phone with you that, like, obviously, I'm not going to make. you say anything bad about your father. cuz that would just be completely. demonic to be like, say something. terrible about your father. Everyone. knows my opinions, my political. perspectives. They're already out there. He is your dad, so that is separate from. my. >> it because there's no way I possibly. could. >> Yeah, of course. I I totally get that. Um but there's a lot to be said about. you and a lot that I guess hasn't been. said about your journey, and um I guess. I want to start with just one question.

for the culture. The cocaine that was found at the White. House. >> [laughter]. >> was it yours? No. Not only was it not. mine. No, number one is thank you for. having me here. And one of the reasons. is is to be able to answer these. questions, you know? The one thing I am. uh. after 6 years of this, I've been sober. since June 1st of 2019. Clean and sober. Verifiably so, by the way. And uh. verifiably so by the the the uh.

the Bureau of uh of probation in which I. was drug tested randomly for over the. course of 2 years while I went through. my trials and things like that. But. beyond that is that uh uh to directly to. your question, I wasn't even there. Not. only there, but people have to. understand is where that cocaine was. found was you know the visitors entrance. underneath the the uh. That is where visitors come in and uh. and they come over from the old. executive office building staff to go to.

the um. uh go to the Oval or go to the chief of. staff's office or to the offices in the. West Wing. And it was found in a cubby. in uh right outside of the situation. room. Mhm. And. it's like. no possibility, not even remotely, beyond the fact that I wasn't even. there. I mean, I spent probably, you. know, over the course of 4 years, maybe. um. uh. 25 days at the White House, like 25.

nights, 30 if I, you know, I'm being. fair. And so. it's just a, you know, it was an easy. easy, you know, um I was I'm an easy. target and uh and understandably so. Right. I mean, I've been, I think. probably the most. famous addict uh. and uh famous person uh. is grace of God in recovery for 7 years, but we're close to 7 year in first. So.

Yeah, I definitely thought you were on. drugs while your father was in the White. House. I don't know, but I think it. might have just also been the timing of. the laptop coming out and then people. just assuming. that you were still on drugs. I don't. know, but that might have been why in. our heads we thought that. >> think that that it was that they. purposely conflated um, you know, my. [clears throat] I wrote a book and which. came out in April of 2021 in which I uh, did something that very few people I. think ever in in that are kind of like. similarly situated to me do in which I.

was. 100% frank about the fact that not only. was I an addict, not only was I. alcoholic. I don't really see the. distinction between the two. One they're. both drugs, but I was a crack addict. Like I was a degenerate crack addict. I. mean, I've heard you call me a crackhead. many times and the truth of the matter. is I was a crackhead. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah. >> And and and um, and and I say that not. to shock people because it's really. shocking. um.

uh crack cocaine carries such a stigma. to it begin with, but I say it because. I think that there are so many people I. don't think, I know. There are so many. people. I think that there's, you know, at any given time 30 million Americans. that are either in active addiction or. in recovery. There's not a single person. that I know that hasn't been impacted by. addiction at some level in some form. personally or with someone that is one. degree of separation from that they.

love. No one that I know. >> Least of all me. Yeah, and it yeah, and. and um, and part of that one of the. reasons I'm here you that the stories. that you tell about that in terms of um. My family. >> Your family. And uh. and. and there is where the common ground is. For me, I'm. I can 100% say this is that. I a friend of mine. said gave me this quote um about 2 years.

ago. and it's become my mantra. Is it it's Mother Teresa. It was. attributed to Mother Teresa. Is if you want to change the world, go. home and love your family. That's. that is my that's that's my everything. now. And and part of that is not just. the family that you have by blood and. birth, but also the community that. uh that you're inextricably.

tied to. And that community for me is. the recovery community. And it's people that are still sick and. suffering from addiction. And so. the biggest reason that I wanted to come. talk to you beyond the fact and this is. not me blowing smoke. I think that. regardless of whether I agree with you. that you're probably the most effective. communicator. I've ever heard. behind a microphone and it's really. driven me.

>> [laughter]. >> crazy. It's [gasps] really really really making. me mad. Yeah. Um. Um but is is it is it I wanted to talk. to you about those things and anything. else you want to talk about. Yeah. I I. was I'm most interested in the addiction. story and it and I was saying to you. before we got. uh before we started rolling that this. was sort of something that I noticed. when I would cover various topics. whether it was pornography, drugs on my. show, drinking, how many men would write. and say they were suffering with various.

things and yet they don't often speak. about um like how they're quietly. suffering at with whether it's with. addiction to pornography, addiction to. drugs and I don't think there are enough. conversations about it and so when I. watched that interview of you just just. laying it out there, something that most. people try to hide or they're shameful. of, I was like, there actually just. needs to be more dialogue about it. I. grew up with tons of addicts in my. family. I have people in my family who. are still addicted. Um, and there is, I. think. there is a natural anger that people. have when they for some reason believe,

and I think this was part of the anger. that even some uh that I had it toward. you before I I heard you speak about. your addiction, is that you sort of. think when somebody has money and. political connections that that somehow. removes them um. from going through these sorts of. barriers in life. So, when I grew up, it's like, okay, like you have uncles, whatever, that are addicted to crack, you have cousins that are doing crack, whatever it is, or or experimenting with. meth and drugs and those things. And. then you see someone that has a a life. of privilege, and for some reason in.

your mind you wrongly go, okay, that. can't happen. And it did happen. And I. actually I'd like to hear like how you. got addicted. Like what was actually the. the story, your path toward addiction? Yeah. So, I thank you for. uh. let me talk about that, or asking me. about it. And I really mean it. It it's. um. one of the things that traps people that. it it I can only speak about myself, but. I think that uh. people that are in uh that that are. addicts or that are in recovery.

also you find out really fast is that. you're not as terminally unique as you. think you are. Is that um and one of the. things that. uh. uh. that is really important about. addicts talking to each other and. talking about it is that realization. Because one of the things that traps you. in your addiction is shame. Mhm. And you know, you you like me are um. are Catholic, and we have learned that. that guilt is an appropriate emotion.

And guilt is an is an appropriate. response to something when you've done. something wrong. And you're supposed to. atone for it. And you're supposed to. seek forgiveness, whether it the. forgiveness comes from an individual or. not. You're that that is the um that's. the lesson. It is that it is in uh. only uh. through seeking that forgiveness can you. release yourself from that guilt. That's appropriate. Shame is not. Shame. is just absolutely corrosive. Shame is.

you telling yourself that you're not. worthy. That you're never going to be. worthy. That you're that the things that. you've done you can never be redeemed. from. And I've done horrible things in. my addiction in terms of what I did in. terms of my relationships and. and decisions that I made and more than. anything is just. removing myself from the. being present for the people that love. me. Um and um. and. what happened to me.

um. and I really mean this. is that the exposure, not. piecemeal, but the total exposure. My entire digital footprint stolen from. me. A 20-year digital footprint. Every. text message, every picture, every. all of the things that uh that you would. be ashamed of. became uh front-page. news. for. for 4 years, 5 years,

um beginning in 2019. And uh. it forced me into a choice. And the choice was. do I get out of bed and live. or do I die? And it became that much of a dichotomy. And. I. uh. and I chose to live. And it wasn't easy and um and. maintaining sobriety in in that kind of. like a pressure cooker Mhm. um.

is often the thing that triggers you, but something broke me in a good way, which was that I no longer have any. fear. I I like. you know, sitting down with you is. to me an all an opportunity for you to. see me as a human being and not um you. know, Hunter Biden laptop. Yeah. And the pictures that you know, uh. Congressman Green uh like put up in. Congress or the or the New York Post,

you know, I think I was on the cover of. the New York Post in one year more than. any. uh anybody in the history of the paper. And none of it was good. >> [laughter]. >> None of it was good. And um. but what it's given me is the. opportunity to own it all. Is to own uh. all of my story without shame or fear um. uh. realizing that. I um I have a community of people out. there. that I want to uh.

I want to be of service to. I really. mean that and and um. and so. and part of it is by me being a little. bit honest about it. You know, we were. just talking before we started this is. the hardest thing for any addict to do. is is not only get honest with the. people that they love, but to get honest. with themselves. And until they can. until they can really see themselves for. who they are. all of it and and decide to love. themselves. then the you know, uh the.

the cycle is just going to continue. It's just at least in my experience that. that's the truth. I think one of the things. >> I even answer your question? Yeah, I. well I want to talk about the first time. that you got introduced to it cuz that's. interesting. >> Oh, I know, I went into all the good. stuff. Yeah. >> do start with that. Like how did you. actually get introduced First off, describe for people who don't know uh. the difference between cocaine and crack. cuz crack is is a A more addictive. >> Yeah. And so just what is the difference. between. >> got a lot of heat for No, it was. fantastic.

>> Yeah. It was fantastic. I was like well. he's actually very educated on this and. >> Well, it was. important to me to make the the. distinction that that there's this idea. that um. that there's this kind of a secret kind. of special enhancement to uh to powdered. cocaine that it makes it into crack and. you know, you have to have you know, uh. some uh technical degree in order to be. able to to to to do that and. let's start all the way at the. beginning. I think that I'm genetically.

predisposed to be an alcoholic. I do. believe that there is a genetic piece of. it. I do believe that my brain works. differently as an addict in terms of the. way in which my synapses um uh fire once. they're introduced to the dopamine hit. and the serotonin um increase that. occurs because of an introduction of a. substance. I believe that uh that that I became uh. acclimated and um physiologically. dependent upon that when I um.

started to drink in earnest um when I. was in college and which you can control. and you know, I made it through. Georgetown and uh I went to Jesuit. Volunteer Corps for a year and and uh. and which kind of like domestic peace. Well, you know, the JVC. I was JVC for. year after after college. and um and then I went to Yale Law. School. You know, I was married, had a um. uh. my. my oldest daughter when I was a. um first year law student, made it.

through all of that and made it through. my um first years of employment drinking. probably more than everybody uh than. than most people do, but completely. functional. And one day I woke up when I was 33. years old to my brother calling me and. say this has got to stop. Like you got to stop. And um. and. and what he meant was is that, you know, like a. a whole weekend was missing. Kind of. and, um,

and I and I said, "Okay.". And he drove me to the airport and, uh, he put me on a plane in New York and I. flew to a place that was started by Eric. Clapton called, uh, uh, a Crossroads in Antigua. And I went to rehab and I came out and I. and I what went directly when I came out. my brother picked me up from the. airport, drove me to an AA meeting, walked in. with me Dupont Circle in in, uh, DC.

I met my sponsor at that first meeting. that I ever went to. and and I stayed clean and sober for, um, for about 7 years. And, uh, and then I relapsed. And, uh, and it was a. such a mundane stupid story. I was on a. plane by myself. Everything was okay. Things were looking up. It was, you. know, uh, I you know, normal life pressures, but. it was all good. And that's the, um,

that's the. real. insidious thing about addiction and. alcoholism. It it never goes away. necessarily. There's always the answer. that is being presented to you by the. thing that you trust the most, which is. your brain. >> Mhm. And what it says is, "If you don't want to feel this way, whatever the way is, or if you want to. feel this way even more, I have the answer for you.". And I was on a plane by myself. and I had a drink.

And that drink in. 2010, 7 years almost of sobriety, started a cycle of uh relapse and. recovery and relapse and recovery and. was and was really hard for me to be. honest with the people that loved me. Because I just wanted to hide it. I just. wanted it to go away and I thought, "Okay, I'll get through this cycle and, you know, I'll sleep it off. uh this weekend and that that's it. I'm. done.".

And that would last a week and then it. would last 3 months and then I went back. to rehab and then it became kind of then. I came back and. I started I I mean, talk about you talk. about this all the time, which I love. that you do, it was big pharma, you know. what I mean? I had shingles and so. somebody prescribed me like 52 oxy co-. like I mean, ridiculous and I started. that and. and then I started drinking again and. the prescription ran out and then the. cycle just started to happen. And um. but when my brother died, uh. it all fell apart.

Bo and I. uh. were. uh and like I I don't report that our. relationship was unique. or that his loss was greater than. uh my my loss again was greater than. anybody else's loss of their brother or. someone that they deeply. deeply loved. But when my mom and sister and my Bo and. I were in that car accident in 1972, um.

and we survived, it was the two of us. every day. We're a year and a day apart. We talked every day. I mean, except when. he was in Iraq, I literally probably. talked to my brother every day. And um. and uh and when I when Bo died, my marriage fell apart. uh after 20. years, 22 years. Um and by the way, for. reasons that uh marriages fall apart, you know? And but I take a lot of.

responsibility for. And uh. and it just started a really really dark. circle a cycle. In the past when I would uh. when I would have these relapses there's. there was always someone in such. proximity to me that they would like. you know, that I couldn't escape. I couldn't escape. In this instance Bo. was gone. I. right after Bo died. I uh.

um ended up uh. um separated from my wife like within. the month. And my dad for the first time in my life. who was my rock. was stuck in his own. grief like deep deep grief. Mhm. And. and I just went down into. >> [clears throat]. >> a hole. And I checked myself into a rehab that. year. and came out stayed sober for a while. and then relapsed and then went into a.

an outpatient program in DC where I went. like you know, 4 hours every day for you. know, from 8 to 2 or or 6 hours every. day. Um. stayed sober and then I relapsed. And. I came back and they said well you have. to. I admitted to them that I relapsed and. and that in this instance I also used. cocaine. And they said well you have to take a a. um. a drug test. And I said I'm not going to take a drug. test. I'm not going to put something on.

you know, it's because it's not. protected by HIPAA in a rehab. scenario. Which is crazy, right? Mhm. Yeah. Anyway, long story short. They said you can't come back in unless. you take the drug test. And I said I'm. not taking the drug test. I'm going. through a divorce. It's not protected by. HIPAA. It will become public. I don't. want to do this to my family. I like I'm. telling you I used cocaine and I drank. Is that not good enough to come back? And they said no. For whatever reason.

and I'm not blaming them. This is not. their fault. I walked out. And. I knew Lincoln Park was a kind of. open-air drug market. I saw a woman that was a kind of famous. in the area since I'd been in college. literally for 20 years that I would see. in the streets around, you know, DC in. that area where I would work for a long. time. And I said, I went up to her and I said, "Can I get some crack?". Wow. And I think it was basically I. said,

"Can you help me commit suicide?". I mean, I I don't think I know that that. now and and uh looking back. It was the coward's way. And I really mean that. I was a coward. I I didn't go and just do it. I said, "Let me do it this way and really really. really drag everybody down with me along. the way.". Like let me figure out the way not only. to kill myself, but to maybe kill my. dad. You know, really hurt my family.

Um. uh particularly my my three daughters. who like adore me and I adore. Like just. the the the fact. And I and I smoke. crack. And the the difference between crack. cocaine and powder cocaine is this. And I really truly do not want to give a. road map for people to be able to um uh. do this because I swear to God it'll. kill you. But it's. sodium bicarbonate, which is baking. soda,

water, heat. That's it. That's all. That is the entire. difference of it, which allows it to be. ingested through a smoking. And the combination of those things. makes it so that it affects your. physiology. much faster than it would be if you just. use powder cocaine through your nose or. in any other form other than. intravenously. And. it also allows you to ingest more. uh faster than you could possibly ever.

or. by sniffing cocaine up your nose. The combination of that, the combination. of combustion. ritual. and uh the ritual meaning the way in. which you have to, you know, uh I mean, I can still feel my hands doing it. Mhm. is, you know, becomes this ritualistic. thing with the combination of. combustion, which is uh and you learn. you I mean, if you. really study things about addiction is. these kind of key components of um oral.

fixation and things like that. It just. becomes the most ungodly addiction that. you can possibly imagine. to the point where I was smoking crack. You know, I mean, literally, you know, I. was either looking for or smoking. or recovering not even recovering, you. don't recover. You just go find more. for um close to a 2-year period of time. Wow. And it took me to places you know, I wrote all about it. And I got made fun of about it.

And, you know, people think that it you. know, when I wrote my book like, you. know, client you know, calling through. the carpet. to find crack cocaine and, you know, Parmesan cheese and, you know, I know it. was a real laugh line, but anybody. that's ever been an addict like that. they don't laugh about it. It's devastating. think that you were that person. You can. see yourself doing it. Just devastating. And so, what happens. in addiction so often is this.

is people not only. they can't admit that. They can't even admit it to themselves, they just block it out. They go, they. get 30 days clean. They come out, they go back into the. same exact situation that they were in. before. And they think, I'm just not going to do. it again. I I'm just going to stay you. like I I I'm going to make it. I'm going. to make it. And what will come up is that that. they'll wake up in the morning and. they'll remember. that time in the motel. with the you know, the person the.

prostitute the party the drugs. and um that stole just stole your wallet. and all your and and every and all your. drugs and everything and you had to your. you were combed through carpet to see if. there was anything there. And you smoke whatever white that you. found on the ground. Like it's. the shame. >> Mhm. is thinking of yourself. [clears throat] look like that. regardless of who you are regardless of. where you came from whether your dad's. the president of the United States. or doesn't matter.

And. they don't admit that to themselves. They don't admit it to anyone around. them. Don't ever say it. And you know. what happens? You never lose it and it sits like right. here and like in the back of your head. and it pops up and you just feel so. disgusted with yourself. that. your brain immediately tells you. regardless of how far away for you are. from a drink or drug. Like I know the. way not to feel this way. I know exactly. how to feel this way. You're going to. die if you keep feeling this way. You. need you need to take a drink. Mhm. And.

that's always how I how it starts. I mean alcohol is the most dangerous. drug. in the world. Um. uh just by virtue of the amount of. destruction and um. and devastation that is uh. that comes personally into the people. around people that are alcoholics. And I don't find any difference between. being an addict and an alcoholic. Um. and uh but that's where it starts and. that's where it started for me. That was.

my that's my story until I met Melissa. and luckily I've been sober and I've. been so you know, almost 7 years now. All right, you guys some moments change. everything and for a woman facing an. unexpected pregnancy seeing her baby on. an ultrasound and hearing that tiny. heartbeat can turn fear into hope. In. fact, it doubles the chance that she'll. choose life. That's why Pre-Born exists. through free ultrasounds, compassionate. care, and real support. Pre-Born reaches. women who feel overwhelmed and alone, giving them the chance to choose life. for their babies and a future for. themselves. But, the support doesn't.

stop there. Pre-Born continues helping. moms after birth essentials like. diapers, baby clothes, maternity. support, counseling, parenting. resources, and encouragement. Today, you. can help a scared woman become a. confident mother. A donation of just $28. provides one free ultrasound, and $140. can help reach five women in crisis. To. donate, simply dial pound 250 and say. the keyword baby. Again, that's pound. 250 baby, or visit preborn.com/candace. Again, that's preborn.com/candace.

I also, of course, have to remind you. about Nimi Skin Care because I used to. think that great skin care had to be. complicated. Like, if I wasn't using 10. different products, I wasn't doing. enough. Then, I found Nimi's three-step. anti-aging routine, and it has changed. everything. It's simple, it's fast, and. my skin has never looked better. Step. one is the vitamin C cleanser. It leaves. my skin feeling fresh and clean without. that dry, tight feeling. Then, I use the. peptide moisturizer during the day for. hydration and firmness. And at night, the renewal night cream is my favorite. part. I wake up looking rested,

smoother, and glowing. That's it. Just. three steps, morning and night. And what. I love most is that Nimi focuses on. ingredients that actually work without. making a skin care feel overwhelming. So, if your bathroom counter is. overflowing with products that you. barely use, maybe it's time to simplify. Nimi's three-step anti-aging routine. makes taking care of your skin feel easy. again. So, check out Nimi Skin Care. today at nimiskin.com and use code. Candace10 at checkout for a special. discount. Again, that's nimiskin.com, promo code Candace10 at checkout. When you're in that moment, and I guess.

people don't realize like you're going. through this, and you're you don't get. to decide what your father does for a. living. And I think that's probably why. people separated as well, too, because. like I said, there's this idea of what a. politician's family is supposed to be. Um, Um, you obviously are because I genuinely. understand what that those sorts of. addictions do. I I don't think people. realize you're not. you're just not even yourself. Like. you're like it's like a demon as. better the best way to say it. And I'm.

maybe I'm taking a Catholic take on. this, but like it's like a full demonic. possession. when you're in the throes of these. drugs. And I mean, this was actually a. great benefit of A&E doing intervention. because people could really see these. moments where people will choose the. drug over their family. They will choose. the drug over their kids. They will. choose you know, they'll choose the drug. over literally anything. And for people. who and I would I actually tend to agree. with you that I I've wondered myself if. there's something genetic because I I'm. not wired that way. I I. or maybe I just haven't found the drug.

that would do that to me, but like I. would say that like I've just never been. never had something and was like, "Oh, I. just need to have that again." or wanted. it again. And I've seen friends that. they have something once and they're. like want to do this every second. And I. go, "That's very interesting." Like it's. almost like you're. you're made of something different. >> I'm certain of that. And I And the. science is certain of that. Anyways, I mean, we all can. I think that we all can. um. associate with um understand addiction.

at. um more or less devastating um levels. So, for instance, where's your phone? I. mean, you have a you you basically have. a packet of heroin. Right. We all do. You're a junkie. >> Yeah. >> Constantly giving us that dopamine. Which by the way, we can get to talking. about that because I think that that. that. we are not nearly as divided as people. as we think that we are. I think that. that bag of heroin in everybody's pocket. um is feeding them a lot of that.

division. But, is so we can all kind of understand the. compulsion. to do things that aren't um that clearly. aren't benefiting us. Like staying up uh. until 3:00 in the morning and going. through your For You page on TikTok. >> Mhm. Um. every. mother, father. uh can watch their. teenager um do that and go, "God, this. is awful and I'm going to take his phone.

away." And then they turn back to their. phone and they. they start going through their phone. Like, and I and I'm, you know, I'm I am. not any uh. uh better. I So, we can all kind of all. understand that compulsion. It's when. the compulsion becomes just. so uh uh the the the blast radius. continues to grow. Mhm. So, that the. difference between being a um. uh you know, addicted to your phone um.

and being addicted to crack cocaine, I'm. not saying are the same, but at least we. can kind of get a little bit of an. understanding of the physiology of that, of the way in which the brain actually. works. Um but. It's like the micro versus the macro, yeah. >> Yeah, exactly. >> And everybody has the micro. >> so you can you can see the the the micro. impact of it. Um and but I think. the one of the reasons that why people. are um.

so. like shocked by my story. Well, he And And by the way, and we're. able to conflate. So, if the New York. Post. every day. for 6 years. uh runs a a picture. on uh you know, on online. I mean, I. think they literally at one point did. like. uh. 1.5 stories of me a day for an entire. 18-month period. Okay. And um and each.

it didn't matter what the subject was, it was a picture of me naked with the. prostitute. >> with whatever and with a with crack with. a crack pipe in my lips. So what Like I so I don't get mad at. people when they go like was that your. cocaine? Like well number one you know. the White House is like this just. doesn't make any sense. I had seven. Secret Service agents with me at any. given time everywhere I went. The idea. that I was in the situation room and. would decide to drop off. I mean that but beyond beyond that.

silliness is the um. is I don't blame people for not. realizing that I have worked my. heck and ass off. I mean in this environment. the proudest thing that I've ever done. is stay clean and sober. Through all of that. Every piece of it. right both the trials through the. accusations through the. you know Alexander Smirnovs and Galufs.

and and you know Konstantin Kuliks and. Lev Parnases and Rudys and Steve Bannons. and every all of that. Is it. purely. because of the love of the people around. me and my. willingness to own it all. I'm I'm sitting in front of you. Yeah. And and you're not taking that away from. me. Right. No and by the way that's the. beauty of it. >> Yeah. The realization at one point is.

that you can try. I have no fear. No fear. And um and that doesn't and that's why. I'm here more than anything is because. it. I. like. I don't I I I probably you know I'm. certain that we disagree on a lot of. stuff but there used to be a time. Candace where you and I could sit down. together. and disagree about tax policy. and disagree about um you know the the.

Catholic Church's view on abortion. or disagree with I mean, whatever the. subject may be. And still be able to go have a meal. together. Right. I talk about that often. on my show. Like I I would back when I. was left-leaning in college, my best. friend was Republican conservative. Like. it it wasn't so. at each other's throats and hating each. other and wanting to destroy one another. and you know, you could kind of see the. good and the bad and go, well, I'm you. know, this is why I have this. perspective and the perspective could.

change and that was allowed too. You. know, I I think about what it was that. just revisiting what made a lot of. people including myself so angry about. you um or I guess it wasn't really about. you. It was the gaslighting. It was the. letter that came from people saying it. was Russian propaganda. That is what is. driving us crazy about the Epstein files. right now. It's what's actually leading. it ironically to the collapse of the. maga support is we don't want to be. gaslit. Yeah. And to be fair, it wasn't. you that that's why it was so refreshing. when you were like, yes, I had a crack. addiction. This is me. I did this. I was.

with hookers. But you weren't speaking. for you and they were they were. literally a bunch of people that were. coming out and saying, this is not real. And that is the most infuriating thing. for because everyone's average. Everyone. can connect with addiction. Everyone. could have this conversation. Actually, if you had come out and and I I probably. in that environment obviously it maybe. that would there would have been a. different result because we were at each. other's throats. But that is what made. people so angry. It was like, nope, he. never smoked crack. It wasn't real. The.

laptop is Russian propaganda. Like guys, what is this? Yeah, by the way, is it Here's the problem. Is that. Steve Bannon. saved and Rudy Giuliani. saved the quote-unquote laptop, which by. the way is [ __ ] The the the if we. can agree on that gaslighting, I will. agree on the gaslighting of this is that. is that there was never a quote-unquote. laptop. There was a hard drive Okay.

stolen and. hacked material where wherever it came. from, whether it came from a Delaware. repair shop or whether it came like the. partner says from Dimitri Firtash who. was trying to sell a hard drive on her. Biden's in in Ukraine. You know, that. they were looking for before the laptop. repair shop guy was ever the twinkle in. the eye. Just go back and look at the. record, okay? So, here's the thing. Is it absolutely right? And the the in. in this is like the the freedom of being.

able to say this is like, yeah, they. should have let me go out and talk. But it was two weeks before the campaign. and then it and and and then the the. election was over. Steve Bannon goes on. and with his buddy Gao, you know, the Chinese billionaire that's. now in prison and you know, that that is. like a Chinese spy or whatever, you. know, where he got arrested on his boat. and all that crap. Is it I mean, there. is a Go listen to it. Go listen to the. recorded conversation in which they say.

like the laptop, like we got him. We. like, you know, so we put all we. collected all the salacious pictures and. we put them out there and then Rudy went. out and stood on the steps of the. Newcastle County Courthouse with Bernie. Kerik and said this contains child child. exploitation like pure. you know, I mean, pure [ __ ] Just. [ __ ] So, on both sides you have. this reaction, you know, which I don't think it was.

necessarily a coordinated reaction in in. the sense that what do you do in two. weeks? And so they come up with this and. they say and I don't get to go out and. say, you know, no, I was. But you know what I. did? Is it. Come April. I write a book. And I tell everybody. I was addicted to crack and here's my. story and here's what happened. And here. is the all of the rooms that no one. would ever want to admit to to being in. that I was in.

And uh. And. And it was like a blip on the radar. because everybody was now fighting about. whether there was kind of a suppressed. story on Twitter and whether there was a. um this gaslighting from, you know, And. by the way, I am not here to defend. any But then it's part of like the. political machine where they're like we. have up to 2 weeks to go to the. election. We're going to do this denial, you know, because we we can't afford. this right now essentially. And so and. then we're going to table this, make it. past these 2 weeks. And then by that. time, first and foremost, your father.

won, right? So, uh you know, and so. people are angry. They feel like the. election's been stolen and that there. was this entire collusion to cover a. laptop, which if it was on the other. side they may have done too. This is. what DC is. It's politics. But that that. is where they I think the anger came. from and it was just like I got it. How. dare you gaslight us? And then people. then start making you this focal point. of. >> had anything to do with me. Right. It. was kind of bigger than you at that. point. >> know what the laptop proved? That you were crackhead. >> [laughter]. >> There you go.

By the way, all this other all this. other [ __ ] you know, bribery and. all these other things. that they investigated up and down. during the Trump administration with a. Trump appointed US attorney, with the. Trump appointed US attorney as the only. US attorney in the in the country to. stay on and continue to prosecute me, who then became special counsel after I. got a a plea deal because I paid my. taxes late. And I paid them with penalties and. interest. And I owned a gun for 11 days. While they say I was addicted and and.

check that box. That's it. Everybody has all the information. It's. not like the Department of Justice has. the my digital footprint and every text. message, every email. And there's not a. single one in which you'll find that. that that word in any way supports. the really serious accusations. of uh. enriching my father enriching himself. somehow or none of it none of it's. there. So, I own whatever you want to.

call it. I own the laptop. Come, you know what? We can go through. it together. >> Mhm. If you're willing to like avert. your eyes to the to the tragedy Mhm. >> of addiction. I mean, just the absolute tragedy of it. Yeah. But man, oh man, we have not there's no. space for that in discourse anymore. There's no space for the nuance of uh. you know, well, that was addiction. That. wasn't corruption.

You know, I. did not do any business. through entire 4 years. I I became a. painter. You know why I became a. painter? Because it literally saved my. life. I painted my whole life. And Melissa. instinctively knew that I literally. needed to like occupy my hands in early. recovery like 12 hours a day. Like just, you know, like to be able to focus on. the not the the crushing weight of the.

consequences of years of addiction. And so, I just sat and I painted and I. painted and I painted. And I decided to. have a show. in a gallery. And, you know, and offer. my paintings for sale. And New York Post. comes out and says Hunter Biden is. selling his paintings for a half a. million dollars. I have never sold a. painting nor offered a painting for a. half a million dollars in my freaking. life. And by the way, everybody knows. this because every painting that I sold. everybody that bought a painting had to. pay about a quarter million dollars to. defend themselves before an impeachment.

uh hearing. Go read the transcripts of. people under oath. But regardless, is this is the laptop. absolutely proved nothing, but it became. this this cultural touchstone. It was. like it it embodied the Biden crime. family. Mhm. And if you wanted to. be able to believe that. not wanted to be able to believe that. If you believe that because you're being. told that. by people that you trusted have told you.

that your election was stolen that your. democracy was thwarted that that the. process was um unfair. Is it all you had to do. and I get this. is look at the pictures. Right? Doesn't look like a good guy to. me. >> Right. Cuz you weren't a good guy in the. pictures. No. >> Yeah. Smoking crack in a motel room with. a prostitute. >> Right. Like yeah. Like you know what I. mean? Like they they they come out and. like they're saying, "Oh, like this all. Like I admit it all. Not only admit it. all, I own it all.

I will I will own everything the worst. of it. Mhm. All of it. And then being like I I mean now in. retrospect and things have changed times. have changed. I like I said, I was one. of the chief people that was really. angry about it and it did That was the. exact reason why when I re-examined it, it was the gaslighting. It's the same. reason why I'm angry with Trump over the. Epstein thing. It's like I can't come. back from media gaslighting. The Trump. thing is worse because it came from his. own mouth but the gaslighting so it. wasn't like people trying to cover it. up. It was like Trump being like, "What.

Epstein files? Are we still talking. about the Epstein files?" And so uh but. then things kind of change I think with. time also because I was very. definitely definitely close with Don Jr. Traveled a lot with him through the the. Hunter Biden laptop scandal. We talked. about it, this corruption, da da da. Can't believe they denied it, all these. photos coming out. And then we get. whatever this. you know Trump family is now and it's. like man, I think it was a historian. that wrote on X exactly how I feel which.

is I wish I could go back to the days. where I thought like Hunter Biden's art. was the most corrupt deal that was done. in in politics and now we're going, "Okay, you know, we stood behind Trump, we. fought, we shared the photos of Hunter. Biden to the extent that we could, and. now we have their family engaged in so. many. um corrupt deals, the meme coins, the. taking advantage of people." And you go, "Okay, well, what we actually have is. DC is corrupt, politics is corrupt." And. I I think it is kind of a unifying. point, not to excuse, you know, the.

gaslighting of people for 2 weeks, which. made people super angry. Um but I I do. think it's just a different time where. people are kind of going back and. examining it. I and I feel actually. terrible. realizing that you were finally clean, and then it's just this humiliation. ritual over and over and over again of. people putting everything out there and. not realizing also your kids are facing. the consequences as well, um which. people do not think about a lot of times. when they publish stories. Like I even. was reticent and didn't cover the. Christine O'Donnell thing because the. first thing that came to my mind Do they. got kids? Is there kids? Like I'm like,

these are kids that are about to go to. college. Like and so and why are they. doing this? Because she's in politics, right? And so this becomes they don't. think about the children. And yeah, I mean, I think I now now that. I have kids, too, I think there's just. like, "Wow, they don't sign up for what. I do for podcasting, kids don't. sign up for that kind of stuff." Yeah, you know, number one though, kids are way more. resilient than than you think. They're. so much tougher. And uh and I know um.

the the I my girls. have like. got their. >> [clears throat]. >> and and they they love me and. deeply. And I can 100% accept that love now. And return it with everything that I. have to offer, but you're. you know, part of what you're describing. is politics in memoriam, you know? Part of it, but something's. changed in this.

There is a meanness. Um. a willingness to adopt uh very very. un-American. uh tactics. Um. uh against our opponents because it it. become a zero-sum game. Mhm. It's not just that I disagree with you. It's. you need to be punished. You need to be punished for what you. believe. You know, there's this. incredible. show. I really want to meet them one.

day. You probably I don't know if you. listen it to it's a called the necessary. conversation. Have you listened to that? >> Mhm. Incredible. It's a brother and sister. who are progressives. One lives in LA. and like one lives in Austin. Actually. like that and she runs a. bakery. The sister. And a mom and dad. And they are. ultra mega and I think they're like in. you know. Missouri somewhere. Okay.

And I mean like don't take their caps. off. Trump literally can do no wrong. He's. playing 4D chess on the Epstein thing. The you know, I know he said no war in. Iran, but you know uh he must have a. reason for it and you can't convince. like literally that but they have this. conversation. And they have real issues with each. other. Like the daughter gets really mad. at the dad. Like dad, you were. a jerk to us when we were kids. You made. me but then she has with her mom who.

loves animals and like taught her about. empathy and they would adopt all you. know, these animals and they would uh. and you find out like her dad taught you. know, or coached all of their little. league games and she was a softball. player and if a kid couldn't like afford. the uniform, the dad would quietly go. out and buy the uniform. And he's awful. on this thing by by way. Like she's like. he's and like in terms of the way that. he speaks and he speaks to them and he's. like tough and I don't get I don't give.

a [ __ ] and you know, drop a bomb on them. kind of, you know, and. but it's so informative. is that before. that's a normal family. That's a thing. Before you and I could meet at a. restaurant. um in Georgetown and your husband and my. wife and we could have dinner together. and yeah, like with Tucker, I knew. Tucker. You know what I mean? And um and.

like you could have dinner together. and think that what Tucker was saying. was crazy and I totally agree with and I. don't agree with, you know, half the. stuff he. but you know what it didn't mean? It didn't mean that I thought that he. should be tried for treason and. executed. And that's what happened to. me. And I mean that not figuratively. I. mean it literally. That's what people. were saying and that's what people of. real importance were saying. Those were. the words that were coming out of. the mouths and and I'm.

paraphrasing of people like. um like Steve Bannon and people like. Rudy Giuliani, people of authority. And it changes everything. It's how can. you even have a discussion for instance, how could I go out and talk. about. uh how could I respond was that cocaine. mine? Like what do you want do you want me to. take a drug test because I'm taking a. drug test almost weekly for the. Department of. of Corrections and and probation.

You know, I have a probation officer. You know, I'm on release until trial. You know, but what do you do? Do you Is. that the statement that you make to the. to the New York Post? It's impossible. Becomes impossible. So what do you do? You realize this. And I don't know if you feel this way in. your in your own life. is that you know what the real problem. is? It's not out there. It's not that person. If I could just. get Stephen to tell the truth. If I. could just get Rudy Giuliani to stop.

lying about me. If I could just get. Konstantin Kolb to say that he wrote the. If I like it's not there. You realize in. order to survive it's all inside. Every single piece of it is about. figuring out how to love yourself and. not living that shame. And. in order for you to be able to. be of service. first or to, you know, to Melissa. Like return.

the beautiful. thing that she gave me, which was a. chance. Mhm. That. to be of service to my dad. To return the unconditional love, which. is not love without consequences, not. love without accountability. It's just. knowing that no matter what. even through the consequences and being. held accountable that that person still. loves me. Mhm. All right, you guys. When. I think about the future, I picture of a. little moments that matter most. Family. dinners, bedtime stories, lazy Sundays. at home. The people that we love are the.

center of everything that we're. building. But there's one conversation. that so many of us put off and that's. usually surrounding what would happen if. we were not here. That's really what. life insurance is about. It's about. making sure your family is protected, supported and able to move forward no. matter what life brings. And honestly, getting covered today is so much easier. than most people think. That's why I. love Ethos. With Ethos, you can apply. online in just minutes. No medical. exams, no waiting rooms. Just answer a. few health questions and you could be. covered the very same day. And what. really stands out to me is that Ethos.

helps match you with coverage that. actually fits your life, your goals and. your budget. With up to $3 million in. coverage and plans starting around $30 a. month, protecting your family can feel a. whole lot more doable because peace of. mind should not be complicated. So get. your free instant quote today at. ethos.com/candace. Again, that's ethos.com/candace. Application times and rates may vary. I also want to tell you guys about. NativePath because this episode is. brought to you by NativePath's grass-fed. collagen for better bones, joints, skin,

hair, and nails. Have you noticed that. your skin is losing some of its glow? Maybe your nails and your hair are. feeling weaker or that it's easier to. tweak a joint or pull a muscle? Well, right around age 30, our body start. producing less collagen every year and. by the time most people reach 60, they've lost about half. That's why I. use NativePath collagen. It was created. by Chad Walding, a doctor of physical. therapy, who spent years trying to find. a clean collagen supplement for his. patients. And when he couldn't, he. decided to make one himself. The label.

has one ingredient with no fillers, no. additives, and is third-party tested. It. only takes 10 seconds to add to my. routine and it dissolves instantly in. any beverage. So, if you want stronger. nails, healthier-looking skin, less. joint discomfort, and even improved Dexa. scans, go to getnativepath.com/candace. right now. There's a special discount. plus free shipping for our listeners. today. Again, that's. getnativepath.com/candace. I think that was also what came across. in your interview with Andrew Callaghan. where after I watched it, I think in.

it sort of edited my opinion about that. relationship between your dad because I. think. since the laptop scandal, my in my mind. it was it was a I guess a bit cartoonish. where it was like, well, you can do. whatever you want. Go ahead, smoke. crack. We know we're just powerful. We'll cover it, you know, we do like. that's the like whatever. We we've have. so much power, we've acquired so much. power. And then when I sort of saw you. really defending your dad over this. George Clooney thing, I was like, okay, this is just a normal father-son. relationship. Like people can't apply. that for some reason when you're talking. about a president or or somebody that.

has access to power, but he just loves. his dad and this is the way any normal. person would defend their dad if they. said something about your father, if. they said something about your son, like. this is so normal that I think that's. what. >> Yeah. was a bit a like arresting for me. I was like, this is very normal dynamic. He doesn't care if Jake Tapper's on his. side. He doesn't care if George Clooney. is on his side. That's his dad that. you're talking about and he's having a. natural reaction that I would have if. someone was talking about my dad, my. grandparents, my sister,

my cousin, even the what even when they. do something wrong, by the way. Like. it's like, okay, no, but like that's my. family member who did something wrong. >> And the and the so you have no right and. I will I will breathe fire on someone. and that's kind of and you're right and. now it's getting. dirtier, the games people are playing. are dirtier and it is about wanting you. to feel unsafe and I think that is. something that is so new when you have. people posting your address, posting. where you are, knowing that you have. children and. yeah, I I I I I I really do and it is. over perspective. Like for me it was me. changing my mind on Israel and suddenly.

I'm getting the New York Post treatment. and I'm getting all of these people. coming after me and I'm going, this is. my perspective. You're welcome to try to. debate me on why I feel the way I feel. about what is cuz I have two eyes but. what's happening in Gaza, but to do. these tactics where you're trying to. destroy people. is that feels very very new to me. >> Yeah, and that that that let's be. not let's be honest. I hate that phrase. Okay. I going to from my perspective is this. I know where that started and that.

started when. Donald Trump. from. rally stages started the where's Hunter. or you know, where's Hunter call and. response crowds. And then they printed t-shirts and then. they made hats and then they made mugs. of where's Hunter. And then they showed up at my door. I. didn't have any security. I didn't have. anybody. I didn't can't afford that in. in my life particularly at that time and. they literally showed up at my door with. with bullhorns and mega hats and uh I on.

the the direct and the. the way that they got there. is. the New York Post published on the front. page on its cover. an aerial view of my home with the. address and then in the things that and. you can if you stand here at this. you know on this part of the street you. can see and there are floor to ceiling. windows and you know and so they. they showed up. Wow. And then Alyssa was what six months. pregnant at the time you know she got in.

the car and because she was there the. whole of the time and and and and sped. off and they followed her and they ran. her off the road you know she panicked. and then you know she got in did it. again and they surrounded her and. that's new man. That is new. And and. like similarly to you is it like. before I sat down. I heard where you live what your the. level of security that you have or.

didn't have and you know what your. perimeter of your property is like. How. the hell do I know that and how is that. even remotely safe? How because you have. people who now you're. you you basically spoke your truth and. they decided that you cannot exist and. so therefore. I don't know what's going to happen but. for some reason I think it's appropriate. for me to say. tell you what what Candace's address is. >> Mhm. who lives there and the level of. security she has. >> doing that was one of the most it was so.

obvious what he was doing. >> dad said to me is I have to stop saying. the F word. >> [laughter]. >> Well it was no it was like seriously. that to me was like it's it's a. declaration of war like they know I home. school my kids they know and he's. describing the security apparatus and. he's doing it in this rant trying to be. impassioned about the fact that I don't. support Israel or I don't support. whatever his whatever his motivation was. there was zero reason that you would be. describing the perimeter of my house. outside of wanting someone to get harmed. and like I first first first of all like.

I'm not like Tucker Carlson and I say. this to people all the time. That's why. I get so worried because when Tucker. gets accosted in public, he just has. this like total happy warrior demeanor. I will claw someone's eyes out for my. kids. Like I I like I am not the. property to try. We will shoot you. Like. I I will shoot you and I will kill you. and I will happily go to prison but. before you have one opportunity to even. make me I'm not even going to think. about whether they're going to hurt my. kids. >> exactly like Melissa. >> that's just that's me. That's just me. And and I've said it over and over again. on my podcast. I will I will smile in my. mugshot. Okay? Because I did the right.

thing and I have no qualms about that. So when he did that, I I was like, okay, this little beanie boy, okay, little. beanie boy. I see exactly what you're. doing. The whole world sees what you're. doing and you are doing something that. you because you want my children to get. harmed. And then if something happens to. them, you're going to go, "Well, I don't. know how that happened as I was. describing the perimeter of her home and. talking about what her security is." Um. which was inaccurate. >> but Ken is but that's but that's what. like. what are we even talking about? That's. exactly why they do it. Is that even if. the chance is this small,

the reason that they do it is exactly. that. Is to is to make you really. afraid. Not for yourself, for your four kids, for your family, for the people that work around you. It's like I And by the way, I'll tell you. is that I have the same approach that I. think Tucker has to it it which is then. I don't know it is which is basically. like I can handle it like. I can defuse a situation. I can do it. Melissa?

People will kill you. Yeah, I'll kill. you and I'll ask questions later. And. she did exactly the same. And I You know. what really worries me? Is that. Is that. Is. all of a sudden. we're we're we're all talking about. violence. Mhm. Like you're talking about. violence. Violence is defense, but now. you're talking about the violence. And. then they kind of like go, "Oh, you're. gaslighting us. This is [ __ ] You. don't you you're fine. You're really. rich and you this and that. You can take.

care of yourself. It's like [ __ ]. Did you see what just happened to my. best friend? Yeah. Like I mean we just. watched Charlie get. >> he had a full security apparatus. Yeah. >> We still don't know what happened to. Charlie Kirk. There's zero interest. That's another thing that just. completely for me was like done with. Trump what's so like I mean there's. there's just no way for someone who came. from the inside and watched the work. that Charlie did to get these people. elected. Don Jr. was like a brother to. Charlie. Literally like a brother to. him. >> Yeah. Um and to see the Trump brothers,

to see Donald Trump himself, Cash Patel. who Charlie pushed for him to lead the. FBI, had him on his podcast, J.D. Vance. like you know came out of nowhere. Charlie was like not sleeping to make. that happen. And to see all of these. people have zero interest in the obvious. holes in the story. Even if ultimately. the holes get filled and there's a. picture that make sense which I put that. at zero percent chance. But let's just. you know the fact that they have zero.

interest and they're just accepting the. narrative like what this has done to me. and I've said this I'm just done with. politics. I'm just done with politics. because I can't even begin to comprehend. it and again that element of gaslighting. that's happening here where they're. pretending that the people who are. noticing that none of this is making. sense are the crazy ones and everyone. else who's like nope turn the chapter a. week later it's all solved. >> Yeah. Uh and this is how it went down. and and none of it makes sense but just. accept this slop. It it is the most.

infuriating thing and it's it's just. fully removed the scales of my eyes and. I've stopped with this left versus right. Democrat versus Republican. I'm like. this is sheer evil. versus good. >> [laughter]. >> This is like sheer evil. >> For real. Exactly. Like I'm like. >> Exactly. It it is it is good versus. evil. >> Yeah. It it the they they have torn the. mask off of this. I said to you before, is it I pray to. God. that by the end of this that you think.

of me as a friend because if anything. ever happened to me, I want you you and. Melissa to team up. >> [laughter]. >> You would fit. like oh my God. >> It's not happening with Harley Kern. >> the criticism of you for asking the. questions for someone who was like a. brother to you is like. what the F are you talking about? >> Yeah. That that's what he's talking. about. How dare you cancel. >> He's coming from someone who you've. attacked and you've and and. politically you've you know had all of. your criticism which I have no problem.

with and we disagree on so many things. But I listen to you and I go. right on. Like. Epstein like you want to figure out why. they don't want to let the the the the. release all the Epstein files? All you. got to do is literally look at a picture. of Trump standing on at his stage at his. inauguration and look behind him. Yeah. I mean it's like every single. person. He's protecting his donors without. question. I mean it's crazy like. Paolos and Paulie and this and that and.

the other thing and all of these things. is like okay. And by the way, I. like. anyway, my point is is that yeah, is. like when is it when are people going to. kind of wake up. to the fact and. it's not left or right. This is a really. really horrible group of people they're. pulling the strings. that um. that impact us all and they make us. think that. because you and I disagree on um you. know the graduated tax rate.

or some social issue. is that we are sworn enemies. Not. [clears throat] I mean not just you know. like sworn enemies that I deserve. violence. And I and I could see them and. it does seem like both sides have woken. up without question. My audience is now. split and I still say what I believe. I. haven't changed my position on abortion. I'm Catholic. I have you know, there's. nothing that has changed. I think. they're just hearing me for the first. time and I do think there was something. about the Charlie Kirk assassination.

that everyone just sort of looked up, you know, we just sort of all looked up. at the machine and was like, wait a. second. What is this? Cuz they expected. Trump to be ride or die. They expected. cash for me to wow, this is going to be. solved in in the clearest way possible. because the entire political apparatus. that has the power in the Department of. Justice is in the hands of Charlie. Kirk's friends. Like that was how I. felt, right? This is it. No, whoever did. this is never going to get away with it. because these are Charlie's friends and. what did we get? >> They're the people that Charlie Kirk. made. >> He Charlie Kirk made these people.

That's exactly right. He led a youth. revolution to to get these people. elected in power. He was ride or die to. >> The level of disloyalty Mhm. >> or fear. I don't know what it is. >> Disloyalty? Is is. >> Disloyalty maybe guided by fear, but. it's still disloyalty. It's disturbing. And I I I cannot I cannot forgive Trump. the Trump family. uh what they have done or what they have. not done for Charlie. >> Can I keep one of these? Yeah. >> Keep first. Yeah. And I'm full on. I'm.

like, call me a conspiracy I'm like you. where I'm like, that what is the shame. tactic of the day? You're calling me a. conspiracy theorist, great. I'm like, you'd be a fool to believe the stuff. that they're telling us today, the. stories they're telling us. Um I mean, it's it it is something that is just so. disturbing and I think that the Charlie. assassination has. sh- just so crazy like as he was so. Republican conservative, but I think. it's brought people together in a. productive way. Yeah. Um and I I look. what I'm I'm I'm here. and you're here and the um.

I I really think that we're not unique, you know, I think we're very very kind. of emblematic is that like. I'm. like let's put the past, you know, not. behind us. Like, I'll explain anything. you want. I'll talk about anything that. you want to talk about that you still. have questions about or that anybody is. it but like this isn't right. This. what we're witnessing right now. is not right. >> Mhm. >> The level of corruption, the. obfuscation, the um I mean.

whether it's Butler or Charlie or Butler. makes no sense. The these things that. that. it's just not right. And I mean it's so. glaringly not right. It's almost as if. they're just saying FU. Like FU. They're. not even trying. Like we aren't even. getting good psyops anymore. And that's. what I keep saying. I'm like they're. it's so disrespectful that we're not. even getting a good good psyops anymore. Like we're we're supposed to believe he. survived four What do we have? Four. assassination attempts? The first. president that's ever survived four. assassination attempts? They quietly.

they lie to us about things and make a. big deal and then they make it want to. you know, it's going to go away. They're. going to keep pretending and telling us. that this is a totally normal grieving. widow. Okay? No one's buying that. Like. that something's just not right here. Everyone can see that. This is not how. you would react to your husband being. shot and uh this sort of just I'm fine. and I feel like two weeks later I fully. accept the narrative. I have no interest. in anything else. It's over. Let's let's. close it. I forgive him. Let's move on. You're you're asking us to abandon our. common sense and our humanity is what.

you're asking us to do. And they're that. kind of seems like where we're at. Like. they're insisting on this and I'm going. where is this going to go because we're. not doing the thing they want us to do. Like they are just constantly giving us. slop all the time. I mean even the. recent White House Correspondents Dinner. there was so much theater to it after. So much theater and now it's kind of. okay, Secret Service maybe shot each. other and we're just going to kind of. quietly move on. But Trump needs a. ballroom. Like that's a normal reaction. Hey, there's a shooting duck. Hey, we. better get that ballroom.

>> way, it's going to cost a billion. dollars now. And by the way, it's not. from donors. And by the way, we're going. to do it like it's just like it's just a. the the the constant like talk about. gaslighting. It's It's been This has. been just this and he We're not even Are. we even a year into Trump's second term? >> a little over a year. >> A little over a year in his second And I. don't think there's just been I'm like. how are we going to do with four years. of just being gaslit every five seconds. and told that but MAGA literally MAGA is. not MAGA anymore. And what was actually. never Trump, which was actually pro.

Hillary Clinton if you think about it, that's now MAGA. It's literally people. who have been against Trump the entire. time who are lecturing us about this. stuff like the Mark Levins and. the Ben Shapiro's and like we're MAGA. now the Laura Loomers like you know, we're MAGA now. Okay, great then I'm not. MAGA. Like I am I've never agreed with. these people. I am opposed to these. people's ideas. I am opposed to unleashing an actual. lunatic who has. had to be Baker Acted and put on.

psych 5150 holds by her own parents who. fear her. I'm I'm opposed to that. actually being unleashed upon the. population. >> Melissa always used that 5150. I had. that She's like that person's going to. get 5150. I go "What are you talking. about? What's 5150?" It's like and it's. like. and you're telling us this is MAGA now. Like this is what we do and so it's been. a it's been a challenging time because. you do have to have like the humility to. admit. that I'm quite embarrassed about it. >> The president of the United States of. America has posted images of himself as.

a king I think half a dozen times now. Yeah. Like. when are we. when when are people going to wake up. and go okay, like if that's what you. want. And by the way, if that's what you. want. then you know what? I know that there is. a that there is a a vast majority of. Americans but but some that are really. going to really really have a problem. Yeah. Really have a problem. And I God.

forbid. And this whole thing is is that. I. we we all need allies now because they. do have an enormous amount of power. You. know, the one of the things that I. always think about. is is that it's so easy to silence. people, but it's would be particularly. easy for instance to go like if if if. someone like the the whole cocaine in. the White House thing. I by the way, I. look at the your premise. Is it like. I you can believe whatever you want to.

believe. But I know my truth. And that's all I can do. >> And you'd preferred crack anyways. 100%. >> [laughter]. >> Okay. And I would not Oh, by the way, I. would not have I would not have. forgotten it. in a cubby. Not if you're crawling on the floor. >> the situation room, which I've never. been in before. Okay. [laughter]. Exactly. You know, I mean, Jesus Christ. Anyway, but my point is is it What if. they um. you know, what if I'm flying back to LA. and you know, or and I go through.

security and they find drugs in my bag? Who would believe me? That I'm still clean and sober. Who. would possibly believe me? No one. No. one. No one. And I could take drug tests and I could. prove it and I could, you know, I mean, literally, I I pack my bag. in front of a witness everywhere I go so. that at least I would be able to say. that. Here's the crazy part. Is the idea that I would think.

that there is a government in power. capable of. doing that. says everything anyone needs to know. Mhm. about where we are. Yeah. The idea. that you feel unsafe in the United. States of America. because. you disagree with the current. administration on a issue that 70% of.

Americans agree with you on. Mhm. Like. you know, I think we all can agree is. that we need to stop the wholesale. murder of a population. in Gaza. Mhm. I you know, whatever you. think about my father's. um. um policies it relates to I I always say. to people, do you know one thing he. didn't do? He didn't greenlight. a um uh the to turn Gaza into a Trump. golf course um you know, with the maître.

d being Jared Kushner with $4 billion in. Saudi money. It's despicable. Despicable. It's just like they did the. deal before. I mean, when he posted that. uh I'll never forget that posted the. Trump like here's what Gaza could be and. like I could have my name on a building. and I was like. >> But literally, that's what they're. doing. >> dead children. Like you're literally. saying this is all going to be fine. because we're going to get up a Trump. resort or something. Positively despicable. I mean, it's just. positively despicable, tasteless, indefensible. I mean And it's not a joke. though. Yes, and Jared it wasn't a joke.

and that is the deal. >> And that's what they're doing, literally. doing. And by the way, they're doing it. out in the open. I mean, I just it's not. as if they're hiding it in any way. >> Mhm. I mean, they are making deals. as they go through, you know, like I. always say to people, it's like you had. such a problem with me. I didn't do any. business. >> the paintings. I didn't do a single. business. I you know, every single. person that bought a painting from me. during the time my dad was there in the. in in office. I had two shows and probably sold a. a total of.

20 paintings. and. 13 of them to my best friend. >> [laughter]. >> And. that's it. That's it. And you had a problem not you. Well, you too, but they had a problem. with me as being this emblematic emblem. of corruption. These guys, okay? Don Jr. got the single largest loan.

guarantee from the Department of Defense. ever handed out of over $600 million for. an energy company, a fusion energy. company, of which he has zero zero. experience in. They have gotten. Jared Kushner, who's never run a private. equity fund, has now a $4 billion. private equity fund with 80% of the. money coming from the Middle East, of. which he continues to raise as he's is. the ambassador at large on behalf of the. Trump administration, not as a political. appointee, but simply as a son-in-law of.

the president. >> Mhm. to come to a peace deal of a war in Iran. that they started that has cost the. economy billions and billions of dollars. for a war nobody wanted. that every president before them. before him. was pressured. by the Israelis. to get into and every single one, regardless what you think of them, from. George from. Jimmy Carter.

through President Reagan, through both. of the Bushes, through Clinton, through. my dad said, "You're out of your damn. minds. And here's the reason why. This. is what's going to happen.". So, who benefits right now? You know who benefits? The people that. are making trades of. billions of dollars on market. manipulation that occurred and And we. all know it. It's literally out in the. open, but who's going to who's going to. you know You will not you will not get. to scream at me. Like I'm so far off the. Trump train. He's posting. >> No, no, by the way, and I'm not even.

saying it for Like it's embarrassing. But it is embarrassing. It is. embarrassing because we got behind him. as the answer to corruption. We thought. he was going to be this outsider. You. know, he's going to go to DC. He's going. to drain the swamp. And then he became. the Loch Ness Monster, you know? So, it's like I don't know what it is about. that swamp, but you get swimming in it. and it's like people do this and yes, it. has been for Israel. Not to say that. Trump wasn't pro-Israel. Most presidents. actually are pro-Israel when they go in. there and they they go anti-Israel, they. kind of end up dead. Um, but it's or.

they sort of get kicked out if you want. to talk about Nixon and the scandal of. Watergate, which I revisited and did. think that that had a lot more to do. with his shifting viewpoints, but. uh, that wasn't the issue. Like, I was. pro-Israel generally speaking, not very. educated about the topic. It it's this. level of corruption that you're talking. about. when you are willing to let real. Americans be harmed, their day-to-day. lives be harmed, they're suffering at. the gas pump, their groceries are. expensive, all at the so that you could. further enrich. How much more money does. does Trump family need? I just like. literally, how much more money do you.

need? Like that you're going to allow. this to happen. Don't don't you just. want to have now a legacy of being a. good president? I mean, this is Yeah, I. have to say to you about like the. cryptocurrency thing. I think there's. incredible promise in cryptocurrency. I. believe in the you know, meme token. I. want to I I'll do something one day to. create a community and there's really. good reasons to do it. There's really. interesting ways and I know people can. disagree. I just happen to be kind of. like a. crypto guy. >> crypto I mean, just because of my under-. I think there's incredible freedom in.

world in which we've been controlled by. banks. So, if you have the same problem. that I have with big pharma banks and. and and the Fed and these like like. where does money come from kind of. thing? Is it like I truly believe in in. what uh, Satoshi uh, you know, kind of the. manifesto of of Bitcoin. But, that's. just me. Regardless, my point is is that they had such an. opportunity. They had such an opportunity. I'll give. you this. I want you to look at the the the the.

conspiracy. conspiracy. Go look up. Gal Luft. and Alexander Smirnov. They're the two principal individuals. that made the. only claim that people hung their hat in. in Congress and elsewhere as it relates. to my dad and corruption, bribery and stuff like that. One of them. is a. uh fugitive from justice wanted by. Interpol in the United States. government, Gal Luft, who is a former IDF.

uh uh officer. who is believed to be uh living in uh in. Israel as a fugitive, which Israel will. not help us. locate. And the other one is Alexander. Smirnov, who is a known Israeli intelligence. agent. Those are the two people who was in a. prison in the United States. was so was serving 6 years. and. they can't find him. Your prison can't find him in his prison. in the prison.

He is. on furlough, but no one knows where he's been. furloughed to. Within The only passport that he has is. an Israeli passport. There are forces. that I used to say, "Oh, this is. bullshit.". Have you ever read um uh. The Devil's Chessboard? Yes. I I I. Alan Dulles looking into the CIA I read. this book Chaos that then led me to. Devil's Chessboard. It's actually on our. list for books to read for the book. club. >> Yeah. Mhm. Yeah.

Yeah. It'll knock you Chaos uh CIA the. Manson stuff. That was the one that. knocked me and I was like, "What the. heck is our government? What is going. on?". >> realized the that. Anyway. what the CIA is capable of and. you think it's all a conspiracy and I. think that's what they're fearful of is. that people will have awakened to that. And so when they're kind of trying to. throw red meat now, which you see them. doing, the left, the right, it's just. not landing the same anymore because we. we just realized that there is a devil's. chessboard. >> why I have in terms of the left like you. think I'm going to.

defend the um uh the. the DC elite of the of the left. They They crushed my dad. They went when when they saw their. chance, they did everything in their. power to um. to to push push him out. You know why? Because he was never part of that club. He was never part of the Epstein class. He lived in Delaware. Everybody that. think you can think whatever you want. about my dad is it literally my dad. never bought a stock or a bond because.

he made a commitment in 1972 when he was. 30 years old after Watergate never to. own a stock or a bond. And he did. My dad was the poorest person ever to. enter the presidency and the poorest. person not poorest. I mean he had money. He had wrote written a book and he'd. done well, but he had the the least. amount of wealth entering the presidency. in in modern years and since 1900. than anybody. And when he was in the. United States Senate, he was not only. the the poorest man in the Senate not.

poor again. He made over. $170,000. an average over the course of 45 years. But. not just the Senate, but 535 members of. Congress. He was never a part of that club. And And that's what I wish. like you knew. That's what I wish they. knew. And I am not here in any way to. defend, you know, the the you know, the. DC elites. of my own party. I think there's that they're just as.

complicit in all this [ __ ] No. without question like the Nancy Pelosis. What's your um What's your opinion on. Kamala then? Do you like her? >> Look. You like you didn't. Definitely. >> No, you know what? I did and I I don't. want to say anything. I don't I didn't. know the vice president that well. Okay. >> You know. I mean I and. and she was always nice to me. personally. And so that was my you know. you know, but I didn't have.

the other thing that people think that I. was like living at the White House. I I. literally didn't leave. my home because it was really hard to to. leave. I stayed, you know, in the hill. that I lived on until the fires came. Um. uh You know, that's that's where I was. I was with Bo and Melissa. And um. try to make it through. And not trying. to make it through, thriving making it. through what would otherwise have seemed. like a um horrible. horrible life from any outsider's.

perspective. So, I'm not dodging the. question, but I don't want to [ __ ] on. the the. vice president because I have no reason. to necessarily. >> she did nothing personal to you. She was. nice to you. >> Never did anything personal to me. I. think that she is uh. you know, so Kind of the machine stuff. >> Yeah, exactly. You know, I don't. In terms of all of that stuff, I'm. uh you know, I think. I'm tough enough to realize that that, you know, that's part of like when you. get to politics at that level.

I people kind of uh. I think have this misperception of me is. that for 50 years I was a crack addict. and I was that picture. You know, I. mean, I went to Yale Law School. You know, I served in the Clinton. administration. I was chairman of the. board of the US UN World Food Program, which is the largest humanitarian. organization in the world. I served on. 16 boards before I ever joined the board. of Burisma or anything. Um I taught at. Georgetown for I was, you know, taught. at the master's program at the School of.

Foreign Service for 4 years. >> Actually didn't know that. Yeah, yeah. And. >> That was something that surprised me. too. Not to be rude, but I I thought you. were dumb. Yeah. Because I don't know, maybe because Meghan McCain was on The. View for too long or something and I was. like, here we go, just like rich. political kids. Like, I mean, she is. just she's just so dumb. And it and yet. she's just always here. Like, they're. just giving her stuff. And so, I think. there's also that perception where it's. their rich kids don't work, aren't. smart. And so, I I of expecting you to. be sort of a Meghan McCain. And then. when I watched it I was like, "Oh wait, he actually has he has brain cells.".

Which is by the way remarkable that you. didn't kill them all off when you were. on crack. >> Yeah, as I told you before, I think they got pickled all the all the. vodka. Yeah, or [laughter] something. like So I was like, this is interesting. He's not a total idiot. Uh so there is there are the stereotypes. of rich kids who just keep getting. handed all of these awards in life. I. say to everybody is that if there's any. ever anybody in the history of America. that. that benefits from low expectations, it's me. >> [laughter]. >> Is it all right people are like, "Oh my. god.

Like you aren't You're not dumb. >> [ __ ] You didn't you haven't pulled out. your crack pipe yet. Which is really. crazy. But that gives you an idea by the. way. of the level to which I was muted. because uh. they didn't want and. you know you. you have to subvert yourself to a. machine to a certain degree. And like it. it wasn't up to me if I wanted to go out. and like rail at the machine or rail at. you know go on and and and argue with.

Jake Tapper or you know whoever it was. Yeah, because it then then I'd become. even more of the story. But you give up. your voice in that way. And it's incredibly emasculating. And particularly when the the um. the portrait that is being painted of. you as a um a ne'er-do-well that never. did anything in their life. Like. like you want to talk about experience? Go look at my goddamn resume. I have 10 times more experience in 10.

times more things. And I know I am 10. times more well read than either one of. the Trump boys regardless of what you. think about them. Now you know what I. can't do is that I'm not a great shot. You know? And um and I don't know. anything about real estate. Mhm. And I. don't know anything about making money. and that's why I'm about you know a few. million dollars in in debt. And I and I. don't I I I And I need to change that. one around in some. way at the age of 56. But, the portrait that was painted on me has.

given me this incredible gift. >> [laughter]. >> so that I can walk into your house, into your studio, and I guarantee that. people afterwards are going to go, "I. still think he's But my god, he's not. You know what? Like, can you believe it? He didn't go do lines in the bathroom.". >> No, I I I was That was my reaction when. I watched Andrew Callaghan, where I was. like, "Wow, he's actually thought. through his addiction. He's talking. about the ritual of it." Like, "This. guy's not an idiot." And I You're right. I guess it You do benefit from having. exceedingly low expectations. But it was. sort of like you said the first time you.

spoke, and of course you did sort of. have to be quiet because otherwise you. would have definitely hurt your father, and there There's a machine that's kind. of bigger than you that you have to. submit yourself to. >> was there. You could tell that. that I even went back. My dad just said, "Honey, that was That was really. beautiful parts of it. Did you have to use that the F-word that. much?". >> [laughter]. >> I was like, "Coming from you.". Which the the thing about my dad though. is he uh. he um.

at least from the different generations, he would He never talked to us that way. Ever. Like, even around around around my. mom, where, you know, But anyway, so I'm trying to curb the. [clears throat] F-word for. for my mom and dad. All right, you guys. Summertime expenses in 2026 are stacking. up faster than ever, leaving Americans. feeling like the only option is swiping. their credit cards. This keeps you. trapped in a cycle of high-interest. debts. American Financing has a way out. This is not about shortcuts. It's a real. strategic plan to reset your finances.

and reclaim your budget. At American. Financing, they specialize in building. plans tailored specifically for your. goals. They look at your current debt. and show you exactly how your home's. equity can work smarter for you. So, imagine rolling that high-interest debt. into one simple, manageable monthly. payment. There are no upfront fees and. zero pressure, just honest advice from. salary-based consultants. On average, their customers are saving $800 a month. That is real breathing room. So, start. today and you may be able to delay two. mortgage payments. Call American.

Financing today at 800-795-1210. Again, that's 800-795-1210. or visit americanfinancing.net/owens. Again, that's. americanfinancing.net/owens. American Financing, America's home for. home loans. What uh how old were you, by. the way, when your when your mother died. in the car accident? >> Just about three. I was a month away. from three, but I was a month away from. four. My uh my sister Abby was about 18. months. And um who my oldest daughter's named.

after, Naomi. And um. uh. and uh. yeah. Do you have any memory of her? Yeah, you know, I it it's a uh. I don't know. whether I have for certain whether the. the things that I have, which I believe. are memories, are memory. Um because it would be very rare uh at. that age. I I I have a distinct memories. of my my mom carrying us around in.

picnic basket. And um. and I even have a uh a distinct memory. of the car, not the accident, but of of. the car. Um. uh. But I don't know if it's because I've. been. you know. so steeped in stories. You know, the beautiful part. like everything, there's a Have you ever read any of the. um the Gnostic Gospels? You know, the.

um. You really should. It because I know. you're. uh. I I've listened to you talk about your. Catholicism and your faith and. >> And I'm I'm a toddler in the faith and. there's so It's like so rich. >> really cool. There's there's the. one of the things that I. uh. I've always been a student of because. when I went first went to Georgetown. the two closest people after I got. Georgetown were two Jesuit priests. One. was named Ted Dziac and the other one. was Bill Watson.

And both Father Watson and Father Dziac. led me into this idea of service. You. know, it was the I started a thing. called the Jesuit International. Volunteers uh with Father Watson. I mean, excuse me, Father Dziac and then. I went to the to the JVC because of. Father Watson um which is like domestic. peace corps, you know, and I did that. for a year. And then when I. opened up my own law firm, my all my clients were um Jesuit.

universities because I was friends with. presidents of the universities that were. just like five or six years older than. than me, you know, that they were now. becoming presidents of St. Joe's and. Scranton and. Loyola and all these Jesuit universities. Detroit Mercy and um but anyway, the. Gnostic Gospels. The Gnostic Gospels. were um uh. they were found. uh in Nag Hammadi and they they were. written in the uh the period between uh.

Christ's death and the first two. centuries. And there's the Gospel of. Thomas, Gospel of Philip. And. Constantine I don't know. This is boring. the hell out. >> No, I'm very interested. >> Constantine um uh. Emperor Constantine converted to. Christianity. >> Yep, the end. >> But what he did, and really what it was. about, was not a um. uh not a true transformation of faith. It was a way to consolidate power. So he. made the the Christian um uh. bishops. who were, you know, two 200 years into.

the the. uh the very, very early church. He made the Christian bishops his. lieutenants and enforcers as it related. to um. uh the religion. So that he can control. the more radical elements of it. And so. that is when they. came to an adoption of just four. gospels. Mhm. And um cuz there's all of these other. writings that became uh. that you could get excommunicated for um.

running. That is really beautiful. Really beautiful um portraits of like. the Gospel of Mary Magdalene and Jesus's. relationship with Mary Magdalene. But. anyway, in the it's not a gospel, but it is one. of the text. I think it's called uh. the Acts of John. There is a thing that. Christ says and he says, "You. I'm paraphrasing. You must learn to. suffer as I do. in order. be able not to suffer.".

And that. is the greatest lesson. of everything. Is not having gratitude for all the good. things in my life, but having immense. gratitude for all of my life. Like I wouldn't be here. We couldn't have this honest. conversation. I couldn't get to know you as a human. being if every single thing didn't occur. Mhm. >> behind it. I would not feel this. this. gift of being alive on a daily basis the.

way that I do if I hadn't. overcome committing suicide. dozens of times. in motel rooms. in places that I could never afford to. be found dead. You know, and it's that piece. of life. that like the only way I got it is when. they just. tore off all my clothes,

tarred and feathered me, and put me in the center of town. and said, "Look at him.". And I and I and I survived. When you survive that, you kind of go, "What am I going to do. with my life?" The number one thing I. want to do with my life is number one. take care of of me. Yeah. You take care of me. >> I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I. I I I I I I mean basically having the.

worst moments of your life. Like I. always speak about on my show how a lot. of these kids growing up aren't going to. even know what it was like before social. media where you could just make a. mistake and like have that be over and. you got to grow up. And now it's like. they're digging and they're finding. people's tweets from when they're 17, they're an idiot, they wrote the N-word. once, and they like want to hang them. when they're 40. And um I just. I just saw you as a caricature and it. was it was definitely like I said like. feeling gaslit by the political machine. convinced that it was just the left that.

partook in this political machine and I. just like really want to say like. genuinely like I'm so sorry that I just. didn't even consider he's a crackhead. and like you know like that's actually a. very relatable thing and he shouldn't be. you know like to have that is just. unbelievable to consider every worst. thing you've ever done. >> I am. like I told you before we started I cry. very easily. But I do I just feel like I. I it's not who I want to be and I think. I've I've come a long way from that in.

general um and. like I but I did partake in just the. inhumanity of just look at this guy at. the worst moment of his life like with. prostitutes, he's on crack, he's on. drugs, and we should make fun of him. because it makes us feel good. Um or it. makes us feel like we're somehow beating. the machine and that it was I think a. really warped viewpoint and hearing you. speak about it today I'm just like, "Wow, that is so gross that I partici-. you You. have. so much, and I mean this in a good way,

so much power. because. I think that the your audience. absolutely trust you. And the reason that they trust you is. because you've shown an enormous amount. of courage. of. speaking your mind. particularly as it related to someone. that you loved like a brother. And everything that has transpired since. then. Which is a immediate rejection of power.

and an immediate rejection of and. knowing that it you were just going to. get. the [ __ ] beat out of you. And. for you to say that to me, I truly mean. it. It just from a purely selfish point. of view, it means the world. Um. and. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. >> it was and I and I didn't I truly didn't. come here for that. I came here because, you know what? I ask forgiveness every day.

Um. without any expectation that I will be. forgiven. But I know the people that I hurt. And, you know, and I still do. And and I'm. not even remotely perfect. And I'm and I. still screw up. And, you know, and but God, if like. if we. could have this conversation and. genuinely authentically believe that. like.

I think just opens the door for. and and. a a few other people without being, you. know, with with all humility, like maybe. you know, maybe a few other people. And there is a freedom in it, too. Like. there's a freedom that your worst. moments have just been Yeah. >> No, no, no. What are you going to say? >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? You've got me butt naked up with the. with the crack pipe. Exactly. I survived. it and so you have it and. it allows you to kind of return to who.

you are cuz it's you know, addiction is. Yeah. I wouldn't wish it I would say like you. know, people have growing up and seeing. what it's done to families and. seeing a lot of stuff when I was younger. like really made me like again I'm like. wow, I can't even imagine. Imagine if. you could talk about it. Imagine if you. could have openly talked about it and. then the person that you were. confronting or doing it is like we're. able to say like like this is you know, like we got to do something about this. Come on everybody, let's do something. about it. I want to start an aftercare. program for people for free because the. biggest thing that happens is people go. to detox and they go to recovery center.

um our rehab and they get out after 30. days and they got nowhere to go. And so one of the things that I'm trying. to do is start a a free aftercare. program and there's a couple there's one. in Kentucky that is a really beautiful. model. But if I could do that, you know, I'm. I've worked with a with a with an. organization called Basti Universal. Um. I'm the development director there and. they do tenants rights and um and uh. and homeless prevention. Like I I know.

what we all can agree on. We can all agree on that you know, the. people who can't afford to pay their. rent need to be able to figure out a way. to stay stay in their houses before it. becomes a mother with three kids that. are homeless. We know where that leads. But these kinds of things is what I want. to use what I'm doing what. I want like I want to do that. I also. want to make a living. I also want to do I also want to be able. to pay my debt. I also want to be able. to do the things that I you know, I have. you know,

you know, I also still want to make art. You know, you know, I I started. finally and like you know what, I'm. going to put all my art on my website. [clears throat]. and people can come look at it if they. want to buy it they can buy it and like. because I don't really believe art. becomes art until you share it with. somebody. Um, I mean like till there's. an observer of it. So, I can you know, I. can sit in my my my. studio, which is my garage. >> [laughter]. >> But, I want to do all of those things and I.

want to be able to do it and I want to. be able to talk to you. You know what I mean? I want to be able. to talk to the people. I want to talk to. like that family necessary conversation. And say to the mom like, "The stories. your daughter tells you about the way. that you. that you talked to the animals.". It really moves me. The fact that you think I'm the spawn of. the devil. I. I. we maybe have a discussion about it. You know? Yeah, it's a caricature and I.

have and I have a caricature of me. that's been built up for years, so I. should have been more empathetic to it, honestly, but it's when you're in it, you kind of don't really know that. you're in it, I think. >> Well, not only in it is that you're in. it to win it. And once everything is put. in a political lens and and life and. death and, you know, if we lose this election, you know, this. is over and these you know, now I will. tell you this is that we've never had. somebody that is, you know, uh. you know, supposed to stay longer than they're.

they're supposed to, but regardless is. that. I think that that we all have a tendency. to um. to look at the time that we live in and. say that it's worse than ever. Absolutely [clears throat] worse. And the fact of the matter is is if like. you, if you you know your history, is it like. this is a cycle. Um, uh. there will always be really bad people. We will always be disappointed um.

in the end with leadership. We will. always have corruption. It doesn't mean. that we need to accept it. It doesn't. mean that we don't need to fight against. it. It doesn't mean that sometimes. really good people make the wrong. choice. Um. uh but. what it does mean is that I have. absolute hope. I really truly still believe in America. even with all of the incon- the the. all of its. uh.

faults. I mean. even after reading The Devil's. Chessboard. Like you know you read that and you go. like and that's not about Democrats and. that's not about Republicans. And if you. go back and you you go back to. reconstruction. you go back to Andrew Johnson and you go. back to like the. um uh you know, the fact that the United. States of America has not had it was not. is not been the truly the United States. of America until you know, 1964. at past. And this whole thing but I. still really believe.

in the the illusion. And the thing that makes me so mad is. they have completely. torn away. that illusion and people feel hopeless. They feel like there's no chance to. change it. Okay, they gave this guy. the reins to do it and he was the one. who's going to blow everything up and. make it better for everybody. And. and I kind of like wait a second. What happened to Charlie? Wait a second. Why are we at war again?

Yeah. You know. I um I think this is actually the most. important question and I will I will. make this my final question I want to. ask you but um I'm really interested. about your faith life. You're Catholic, you're raised Catholic, went to Catholic school and like is. you're talking to me about the Gnostic. Gospels. >> you and I go see the Pope together. I'd love to do that. Seriously. I think. he's a little mad at America right now. No, but you and I can go see He's he's. been I was tweeted the same day as the. Pope by the way by Trump when he said. bad things about me. >> Well really, let's go to the Vatican. I.

would love to. I would love to. >> place in the world. I love the. >> got back from Italy. I was there two. years ago. Yeah, I did I did my. confirmation. Well, oh, you did? >> I did. I was It was just most beautiful. >> Oh, that's so cool. >> unbelievable. It was literally the same. day that Trump posted the time most vile. person of the year. So, I I felt like. there was even in that there was. something divine because it was like. looking at fake power and then the real. power of like having, you know, a. cardinal getting confirmed, being in. Italy, the the deep history, like what.

outlasts that? Like there was something. so fickle about it. Like posting this. photo of me when I was sick. Okay, great. Um Wait. Hold on. Talk about. humiliating people for sport. Somebody. literally sent this to me right before I. came in to you. They knew that I was. going to talk to you. And I promise you. I did not plan to do this. >> No, you're so fine. It was a a prayer. If you are wise and understand God's. ways, prove it by living an honorable. honorable life. Do good works. with the humility that comes from. wisdom. But if you are bitterly jealous. and there's selfish ambition in your.

heart, don't cover up the truth with. boasting and lying, for jealousy and. selfish ambition are not God's kind of. wisdom. Such things are earthly, unspiritual, and demonic. For wherever there is jealousy and. selfish ambition, there you will find. disorder. and evil of every kind. The whole first piece of that when you. were just talking is what's my faith. If you are wise and understand God's. ways, prove it by living.

an honorable life. And the thing that I recognized is that. quote, from Mother Teresa, I don't go to mass as much as I used to. I would go to mass every Sunday. I would. never would miss a mass. You know, I I. went to Georgetown. I would. Catholic. But what I realized is that my real. faith is in that belief. Is that. just do the next right thing. That's it.

Whether it's the golden rule. And that doesn't mean you have to be. weak in your empathy, but always be uh. compassionate. I believe in the. perennial philosophy. I believe that same exact message. from the Upanishads. to uh the the. Gospels of Jesus Christ. are all at base in terms of the. red-letter words of each of them. are saying the same thing. Love your. neighbor.

like you would want to be loved. And. it's the hardest thing in the world to. do. It's so hard. But that's my faith. And. and I think that there are certain. people that arrive at certain times. that are messengers of that. And. uh. like for instance, I certainly don't. agree with the Catholic Church on a lot. of stuff. I certainly um have a.

uh but I'll tell you what, I really am. so proud of Pope Francis and now Pope. Leo. in terms of just the notion of social. justice. Um and uh. and. I I think that there can be a practical. um application of that in terms of our. our leadership. I really do. I think. that that um. that. faith that is used as as a cudgel. is really really dangerous.

I think that um. uh I I know a lot of people that I. personally love and and very close to. that are part of a an evangelical church. particularly in the in the. African-American community. but that are um. uh. horrified by. the complicity the of the of the of of a. certain section of the evangelical. church and what's happening in the world. today. Mhm. So, to me my faith is very.

personal. Rooted in in in. uh. it's rooted in Catholicism. Uh. and it's rooted in uh. the Society of Jesus, the Jesuit church. in particular, which I you know, they. used to always call the black pope until. we finally got a Jesuit pope. That's you. know. And with the with the eyes wide open, too, that um the church is. as as an institution is incredibly. flawed and had been, but it um.

but it uh. it's given me an enormous sense of of uh. of community and and belonging just from. a cultural perspective. What I'm going to say is I. really think you should go to. confession. Yeah. You should do that. >> Oh, I don't worry. I've been to. confession. Yeah, you should you go to. confession and get you know, and and. yeah, and and just you know, just go. back to the root. Go back to the root. and. um you know, it's it's there's so much.

there and it's like you're not you know, you're just not enough, your brain's not. enough. I mean, hearing you describe. that I can do this, that there's just. something about for me like the the. submission that every mass and just. remembering like. The beautiful thing. Yeah. I love. and yeah. >> The beautiful thing is that I. have been going to confession. for 6 years. Wow. Right here. Ask me. You know, I I like that freedom.

You know, what you used. feel like the only person that you could. say this to? You know, and I'm not saying that there. is not like like my impure thoughts that. I'm. you know, that's between me and God, but. I am saying. is that. that. feeling. of release. that the confessional. is there for.

is the feeling that when I was finally. able to see beyond all of the noise. that I received. by just existing. and getting up every day. and looking. turning over and seeing that. my wife. who saved me. and uh. and Joey. and and my dad. as a dad. not as president but just as a dad. and my mom and my sister and my aunts. and uncles and everybody else and then.

the wider circle. my friend George. you know my friend Franny my you know I. mean my friend Bobby I like people that. had came into my life and. and never left and. despite it all when there was nothing in. it for them but just grief and. ridicule. ridicule. It's everyday. Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, Hunter Biden. Never thought this conversation would. happen and it just stranger things have. happened and I'm just this is truly been.

one of the most powerful discussions. that we've ever had. Um. and I think it's because of your. journey. You know you've lived through a. lot. You lost your mother your sister in. a tragic accident. You lost your brother. to cancer. Um. maybe for a while lost your dad to. politics political machine. Lost. yourself to crack cocaine. Um and. somehow I gained everything. >> Yeah. Gained it all back. >> Yeah. I really did. I can't tell you how. much it means to me that uh. that you would invite me here into your.

home to be able to have this discussion. Um. and I. I. I really really mean it. I I'm really. really honored. And I'm and I'm grateful. that you took it and that you've. accepted my apology cuz I I just feel. really shitty about it but um Thanks. Guilt is good like we said earlier. Thank you so much for joining us. Amazing. >> [music].