The #1 Playboy Bunny (Full Holly Madison Interview)

Holly Madison, welcome to Call Her. Daddy. Thanks for having me. I'm such a fan of. the show. I'm super excited. You don't even understand what that. means to me because I am the biggest fan. of you. Thank you. I would hide in my room and watch your. show cuz I didn't know if my mom was. going to be like, "You're allowed to. watch that or not." And I would binge it. and I I idealized you. Like I wanted to. look like you. I didn't. sweet. Thank you. whole thing. I I wanted to act like you. Like you were someone that I looked up.

to my entire childhood. This show was. fascinating. Now reading your book, it's. clearly the show was a little bit. different than reality. Um but I've been. a fan of you my whole life. So so cool. to sit with you. I think today it's. going to be cool to have a conversation. and Holly and I had zoomed prior to this. just kind of discussing like what what. route we wanted to go with this episode. I wanted to say first to you, clearly. Daddy Gang, everyone, we've been talking. about it recently on episodes that we. are currently in an era, we're not fully.

there yet, but we're getting there where. we're breaking down that wall of. misogyny. And because of people like. Holly Madison, Holly, I truly believe. you paved the way for me and my. generation to be able to have a voice. I. have this show because of women like you. being able to fight through misogynistic. environments and come out on top. You. not only survived, but then you thrived. after the mansion. Thank you. And like I. was saying before on our Zoom, like I. wish a show like yours had been around. when I was younger because I feel like.

when I got into that situation at the. mansion, which we'll get to, um. after like my first night there, there. was so much like shame involved in it. that it really made me afraid of like. everyone's judgment outside because I. didn't feel like I had anyone to talk to. about that kind of thing. And even as. recently as like 15, 20 years ago, I. feel like just women weren't talking. about sex openly or positively at all. It was still like a very shameful thing. It was still like nobody admitted to. having a body count of more than two. people, which isn't really realistic.

At all. Like if you do, like I I I. totally say like get out there. Keep. going after it. Where before prior it. was like, "Oh my god, you've had sex. with two men. Disgusting. What's wrong with you? No. one's going to want to touch you or. marry you." And it's like, "Shut the. [ __ ] up. That's absolutely not how it. goes." So I really thank you for saying. that because I think that's why we're. here today. Like you are a pillar of. what I look up to as a woman who you had. it so rough back then. And so we're. going to kind of get into it because as. we're talking, back in the day, Holly in.

her 20s was up against the. the really the heightened version of. what was misogynistic culture. And then. you went for you went headfirst into the. mansion, which was like the sexual top. tier of anything you could have gotten. to. And I think you thought it was a. glamorized life, and it clearly wasn't. So before we get into your adult life. that you're known for, I think it's it's. always interesting to kind of delve back. into your childhood. And if you could,

if people haven't read the book, kind of. walk us through like where you're from, who you were as a child. Cuz I think a. lot of people think it's fascinating to. be like, "How did How did you get here?". Yeah, I was born in Oregon. I moved to. Alaska when I was three. I grew up there. from ages 3 to 10. And I lived in a. really, really remote area on Prince of. Wales Island. It was basically I lived. in a really tiny town, but there were. some off-the- We moved around a little. bit, too. And there were some very like. off-the-grid moments. Like when you see. those like Alaskan off-the-grid shows, like that was very much my childhood.

Like I used to read the Little House on. the Prairie books when I was little, and. I would like relate to that because I. felt like that was kind of my life. And. then I moved to Oregon when I was in. fourth grade, and we moved around to a. bunch of different towns to the point. where I was going to like two different. schools every year between like fourth. and sixth grade. So I had a hard time. fitting in. And I also, looking back, I. suspect that I'm not neurotypical. Like, I think I have Asperger's. Like, I want. to go get diagnosed. Wow. Because I have. um I've always had like a difficult time.

connecting with other people. Um and I. bring that up because as we get into the. story of me arriving at the mansion and. thinking it's realistic for me to have a. relationship with a much older man. When. I was dealing with all the love bombing. and the things that were coming from. him, I kind of thought to myself, "Well, I've never really connected with a guy. my own age, and I have a lot of time. connecting with anybody my age. Maybe. I'm just like this old soul, and I'm. meant to be with older people." Wow. So, I think that played into that a lot.

Being. vulnerable, talking about potentially. wanting to know if you are on the. spectrum. That is. we're talking about so many things about. like finally things are getting. normalized. That's a topic that I don't. know if it's very normalized right now. So, for you to come on here and say. that, I respect you so much. How has. that journey been like for you? Like, what has that has that process been? Well, I never. considered myself as someone who might. be on the spectrum. I just never thought. of it. I always thought I just had.

difficulties with people and I was just. different, and I just attributed it to. being like an introvert or a bookworm. growing up or things like that. I just. thought I. was just always challenged socially. I. didn't know. But, um one time my. ex-husband was talking to my mom, and he. was asking her like. he was saying I was really hard to. connect with. And that that's like my. husband at the time saying that. So, that that just goes to show how hard I. am to connect with. And he was asking my. mom about it, and my mom said, "Well, I. always thought she had Asperger's." And. she just never said anything to me.

because it's not I mean, you can do. treatment for it, but it's not like. something you can be, you know, quote. unquote cured from or anything like. that. So, she never said anything about. that, and. there were moments in my childhood, and. this was in the '80s when I was really. little, where people would come up to. her and ask if I was autistic. And back. then autism wasn't being diagnosed like. it is today at all. Like there wasn't. the awareness. So that must say. something. I don't know what it was. about me that was giving off those cues, but it's been something that I wanted to.

go I thought about getting a diag- I I'm. definitely going to get a diagnosis. I. actually wanted to before I came on this. podcast cuz I'd love to be able to like. speak more intelligently about it, but I. was just too busy. No, that's amazing. that you're open about that. I actually. would love to. keep updated on that journey with you. Oh yeah, for sure. I know. so many people deal with it, and I have. so much respect for you to be open about. that because it's not. a deficit. I think if anything you. coming on here, that's a strength for.

you to be like, "Maybe that is. happening, and maybe that's why I am the. way I am." Understanding, no matter what. it is, why you are the way you are, that. helps you then understand why you make. the decisions you make. So in your. childhood, I I can imagine now you're. saying that makes more sense. isolated in terms of actual your. environment. You're never in one place. at one time, and so you're not getting. the typical, "Oh, those are my middle. school friends. These are my high school. friends. We're all together." You're. constantly moving. And then on top of. that having an having a hard time.

connecting with people. So would you say. in high school you were like. a loner? Would you say you were. outgoing, but you just weren't. connecting with girls? Like what do you. think you're like who were you in high. school if we were like put that like. superlative on you? Like you're the cool. girl, you're the weird girl, you're the. What are you? I definitely the weird. girl. I I was like a hybrid. I was on. the cheerleading team, but I was also. like the weird quiet girl who would wear. like bizarre clothing. And we stayed in. one place for high school, so I was. there, and I had some friends, but it. was never really the same group of.

friends every year, and they weren't. really like deep friendships. Like great. people, but. I kind of was moved to a place where. everybody had known each other since. kindergarten, and there were some people. who were really cool and like really. like took me into their group, but I. never really had a super deep connection. with a peer at that age. I had a. boyfriend in high school, too, but even. that relationship looking back it wasn't. super deep. And then in college, I went. to Portland State University first and. that was um a school with a lot of older.

students. It wasn't like a party school. like typical college experience. I. transferred down to a school in LA and. was just never really I never really had. like the normal college social scene or. never like when I would date it wouldn't. last very long. I just had a really hard. time connecting with people. I watched. That's interesting cuz I watched I think. it was like an E! interview that you had. done like 10 years ago and you get to LA. and you're finally like, okay, I cuz you.

said you idealized LA. You would go. there at times for like family vacation. Yeah, I always wanted to live in LA when. I was a kid. So I was super excited. You. know, I transferred schools. So I was um. there and I also wanted to be an. actress. So I had an agent. I was doing. auditions. I had um scholarships, but I. had to keep my grades up to get my. scholarship to keep my scholarships and. also work just you know, for spending. money and for rent and stuff like that. So I was kind of trying to do too many. things at once like trying to get the. good grades so I could keep my. scholarships and working a lot of hours.

waitressing so I could pay my bills and. also auditioning and kind of failing at. all of them cuz I was just trying to do. too much at one time. And it kind of got. me to this place where my roommates had. all kind of like given up on LA and. we're moving back home. You know, my. credit was shot to hell because you. know, I just it wasn't that responsible. with my credit cards. And I was kind of. in this desperate place of literally. like sleeping on somebody's couch and. I'd been going to these parties at the. Playboy Mansion and you know, seeing the.

community there which all seems very. nice on the outside. You know, all his. friends like love him and talk him up. and he seems like such a nice person. And, you know, some of his girlfriends. were talking to me a little bit. Like, "Oh, you should come out with us. sometime." And I thought, maybe maybe. this is something I should do. So, I. have like a safe place Okay. to live. I kind of skipped ahead. No, no, no, no, this is good. No, you're giving us. everything we need. 2 seconds. I need My. first question is prior to moving into. the mansion, prior to getting to LA,

what was your relationship like with. your family? Cuz I always think that's. an like everyone has their [ __ ] with. their families or amazing families, whatever it is, but just the dynamic. with your family. Do you have siblings, etc.? I do have younger siblings, but my. dynamic with my family, it's we're not. super like. close, but I think that's cuz I was not. really close with anybody and didn't. open up to anybody growing up. And like. when I say I'm not close with my family, I think people think that means that. they're bad or and it's not it at all.

Like, they're great people. I just. wasn't super close. And like when I was. making the decision and thinking about, "Oh, maybe I should move into the. Playboy mansion." That's nothing I would. have ever like discussed with my family. Okay, that makes sense cuz I think the. dynamic always with like every single. person naturally wants to be like, "Holly, what did what did your parents. say?". Yeah. What what did you tell your. parents? How did you tell your Were you. the oldest? Yeah, I was the oldest. interesting. And I did tell them once I moved in, but. I didn't tell them, you know, all the. details or anything. And I remember. after I'd been there maybe a month, like.

my dad came down to LA and he stopped by. and like this was during the day and. like came into the mansion. Yeah, and like Hef was busy. He was in. the office and stuff and my dad was. like, "Oh, so does Hef even live here?". Okay. was just like, "Yeah." But but like but. like that's how little they know about. anything that was going on or like what. the relationship was. Okay, so as far as they knew, like their. daughter was in a house and it almost. looked like a sorority house and like. great for you, Holly. Like great. they grew up on images from the '60s of. like Playboy bunnies who worked at the.

the and then lived in the mansion when. they weren't at work and it was very. like sorority like idealized type So. okay, you. moved to LA. You said you had one. boyfriend in high school. Can I ask you. when you lost your virginity? Yeah, I. was 16. Okay, and was it with that boyfriend? Yeah. Okay, so you finally are in LA. Daddy gang she's at a new college. She's. trying to figure it out. You have to. explain like how did you even get to the. Playboy Mansion? And also I think it's. important to explain like I grew up on.

this and I know there's people a little. bit younger than me like. the Playboy Mansion was everything. Like. A-list celebrities Right. Cuz it would. never be allowed now. Are you kidding. me? It's like [ __ ] no. Like Hugh Hefner. would literally be like I'm not going to. say he would be Harvey Weinstein but. like there was a huge issue now if that. was in today's day and age you'd be like. are you [ __ ] kidding me? Absolutely. not. You're objectifying women. Not. okay. Not a thing. But back in the day. it was so glamorized and every A-list. celebrity like you name it. I'm sure.

Leonardo DiCaprio, Brad Pitt, like who. knows? Those people were at these. parties because at in the beginning it. was so exclusive. I mean obviously you. can attest to it more than I can but I. just know that anyone that doesn't. understand Playboy and the Playboy. Mansion it was the it place to go and it. was infamous and it was everything, right? Yeah, when I moved here in like 1999. 2000. So long ago. It feels so weird to. say how long ago that was. But going to a party at the Playboy. Mansion it was like the thing everybody.

wanted to do. And my job when I was in. college I worked at a Hooters in Santa. Monica and all the women who worked. there were always talking about wanting. to go and some of them did get invited. because for these parties like the big. parties at the mansion maybe the guest. list would be like a thousand people and. it would be like Hef's really small. circle of close friends. It would be. playmates. It would be celebrities and. then it would be just tons of beautiful. women. Got it. Like there wouldn't be. very many men there at all unless they. were like celebrities or like a close.

friend of Hef's. And. So you're always getting like girls. they're like looking for new girls to. come in and get invited. For sure. And so ran how did you get invited? I. got invited because I was working for. Hawaiian Tropic. They would basically. like hire you to like show up in like a. Hawaiian Tropic tank top but like some. random event or something like that. Another side side hustle. And. Hef's doctor was at one of the events. and he told the coordinator like oh. invite all of these women to the next. party. And I was so excited because it. was just the exciting thing to do. It.

was like the exclusive invitation like a. few girls at my work got to go and they. were always thought of as like really. cool. And when I went to the first party. How did you decide what to wear? Oh my. god. Well it was a lingerie party and. obviously like I didn't want to wear. anything too revealing so I was kind of. nervous. So I went to like a Frederick's. of Hollywood. Oh my god. I love it you're like it was a lingerie. party but I didn't want to wear anything. too revealing. I didn't want to be like. thong out but Right. But I got like a. corset so I was at least like my stomach.

was covered. Huh. And I got like one of. those little silk robes that go over it. Love. So I think I probably wore a thong. underneath but but still I was like kind. of covered. Yeah. So I went and there was another. girl my roommate who worked with me got. an invitation as well. So we were so. excited that we both got the invitation. and we went to the party. And like the. party didn't disappoint at all. It was. just like the backyard where the party. was. There was a tent over the backyard. It was so beautiful. Oh my god. Like you saw so many. recognizable faces. Like the women were.

all so beautiful. And people always want. to know like were there crazy orgies and. stuff. I'm sure there were. I heard. about it but like I didn't see it when I. was there. I it was probably like too. early. I probably like ended up actually. leaving early. I don't know. going to bed. I was like I actually was. asleep but I'm pretty sure cuz I. remember like watching it and every. everyone talks about the [ __ ] grotto. Like whatever the grotto thing and. everyone's like there's probably orgies. out by the grotto." And it was just this. like fairy tale land. But it's also I. can only imagine how stress-inducing to.

be. I'm like I have my insecurities walking. into that mansion. And I guess maybe in. the beginning, although it was. intimidating, you had nothing to lose. Yeah, for sure. Seeing all these. beautiful women, I would be like, "Holy. [ __ ] the competition and how you have. to look a certain way. And if you don't. have blonde hair, like are you even. allowed in?" Like those those thoughts. would go through I think any girl's head. of just being super self-conscious in. this type of environment and it breeds. insecurity. Yeah, for sure. When I went. to my first party, I didn't feel like.

that cuz I just felt like lucky to be. there and I was just like, you know, seeing women that I recognized and. recognized from the magazine. I'm like, "Oh my god, they're so beautiful." But. living there and once you're more just. involved in the whole thing, yeah, for. sure. Okay. Your first party. So, you did you. did see celebrities, you don't have to. name drop, but like everyone was there. Yeah. How did you then slowly transition into. getting into the actual house and being. able to live there? Um I went to the. first party and then I got invited. because when you go went to the parties,

they would have you take a Polaroid when. you arrived if you were new on the guest. list and they would grade you like A, B, or C. And like A would be invited to. everything, B would be invited, you. know, sometimes like to the really. bigger parties. C was like desperate or. something. I don't know. They're like, "Shit, we've got a shortage. Everyone's. on spring break at the season." You're. like, "Shit." Okay. Yeah, and I knew. obviously like you're told they're going. to take a Polaroid of you when you show. up, but I didn't really know about like. the grading process until later. So, they take a Polaroid of you and then.

I got called to go back to like one of. the smaller parties, which was like the. Fun in the Sun pool parties they'd have. on Sundays. So, I was really excited to. go to that. It was really small. There. were maybe like 10 to 20 women there and. just like half in his really close. circle of friends. Like he'd be in the. corner playing backgammon by the pool. with some people and then like some of. his friends would be like out on the. tennis courts, but it was a really small. pool party. And I would go to those and. you like you would say hi to Hef or. thanks for inviting me, but he would.

never really talk to anybody. And I just. kind of got to know some of his friends. and just the other women that went up. there and everybody just seemed to have. such a positive view of him and the. whole environment. creepy? Like did any of you ever have to. like sleep with his friends? Cuz like I. have talked about on Call Her Daddy. before. Like now it's like there are the. Say it's like an athlete and then the. athlete has that like ugly ass weird. friend. The vulture. The vulture. No, I. love that you brought up the vulture cuz. vultures are so real. Like I've had that. in so many of my relationships. The.

dudes have had vultures and they've. tried to like ruin my relationship with. the dude. It's such a thing. like you are out of your mind. Half the. time they're butt ugly and I'm like. you're only. getting the run off. AND THEY'RE AND THE run off is like a. hot ass chick. And it's like, wait, you. are only [ __ ] this girl because of. who you're associated with. Don't get it. twisted. If you are not together, you're. not getting laid. And so I'm wondering. like in the highest form of it you have. Hugh Hefner and then I'm assuming he. allows cuz I know he was like a pretty. jealous guy. But like I'm assuming he.

allows some guys to come into his area. Like you're saying you talked to them. Did any of the girls ever sleep with his. friends? Not that I know of. Like he was always. really careful about just having other. older men around. And I know some of. them would like try to talk to the. playmates, but as far as I know it would. never really get anywhere. He was very. selective about how he curated his. friend group. Okay, I can imagine cuz I'm Then I'm. thinking like the parties. Like if. there's celebrities at the parties. Imagine now in today's age. Like Bradley. Cooper is walking up to your girl and.

like Hef's in the corner. Like I'm. assuming any girl's going to want to go. for Bradley over like Hugh. Like was. there any issues with celebrities at the. time talking to his girlfriends and then. having that issue? Like how did you just. not talk to the celebrities when you. kind of were the main girls as the. girlfriends in the party situation? Well, a lot of the girlfriends did. Like, when I first moved in, there were. six other women living there, and a lot. of them were dating other people on the. side. Um I mean, they weren't supposed. to. That was like against the rules, and.

Hef was super jealous. Like, I've seen. people come in like 5 minutes after 9:00. p.m. curfew and like get dressed down by. him just So, it was so strict, but like. people would try to have outside. relationships. Oh, for sure. People would sneak out. People would be like dating guys on the. side. They would always say, "Oh, I'm. going to fly home and visit my family.". But, they'd really be like. Totally going to see their boyfriend. Rock or something. Oh my god, I love it. I love it. They're. like casually dating Kid Rock. Just a. classic in the Playboy Mansion. So, you. finally get in cuz I remember in the. book you were saying you basically,

which I love it, you had balls. You. essentially walked up to Hef one day and. you were like, "Do you think I can live. here?" And like And you said like you. would like speak high-pitched because he. can't [ __ ] hear. Yeah. You're like, "Hef!" Yeah, he he wouldn't. he lost his hearing in one ear, so I. always felt like he couldn't hear me. unless my voice was like really. high-pitched. And it kind of just built. up over the years so that I had this. like mega bimbo voice when I was. talking. I'm like, He's like, "That's Holly." Like, you're. like, "At least you can get his. attention." And so, he says, "Yes, come. live." Well,

um I had to sleep with him first. Okay. That Okay, yeah, but that is something I. love that you called Kendra out in it. There was like so many things that I. wanted to discuss, but like I respect. that in Kendra's book she had said like, "And then I moved in." And you're like, "Hold on." You don't get to act better. than us. Like, hold on. You do have to. admit that you had to sleep with him. before moving in. Like, let's let's not. get it twisted. Like. Yeah, like I'm not trying to like. slut-shame anybody or anything, but it's. just like nobody.

ever got asked to move in unless they. had slept with him. Okay, so that's a prerequisite. Like, you have to share. So, can you kind of. walk us through that night? you think about it, it would be even. creepier if he's like, "Oh, move in.". And then it's like jumping through. That's actually true. It's almost like. you It's And I guess it's kind of like. dating nowadays. Like a lot of people. want to have sex with the dude before. you're going to be like, "You're my. boyfriend." You're not like, "Let's be. boyfriend and girlfriend and then let's. try to have sex and see how it goes.". It's like, "No, no, no. Let's [ __ ] first.

and then if we want we'll get in a. relationship." Obviously, anyone that's. waiting for marriage that's on the same. for you, but if you listen to Call Her. Daddy, you know that's like it's normal. Yeah. So, the the infamous night, you're out. Did you know this was going to go down? You know, I knew I was prepared. Okay. Wait, and why? Cuz you thought you. were going to potentially move in soon. and so you knew that's what was coming. Okay. So, can you walk them through the. night if they didn't read the book? Yeah, well, I don't think I would have. had the balls to approach him and say, "Oh, can I go out with you guys one. night?" And the only reason I felt.

comfortable doing that is some of his. girlfriends had already like casually. suggested it. Like, "Oh, you should come. out with us some night." So, the only. reason I even had the balls to do that. was cuz I was kind of desperate. Like I. was living sleeping on somebody's couch. Like I just felt like I need a minute to. like reset my life. And I felt like if I. could stay at the mansion and, you know, just have a minute to kind of like not. worry about bills and. is so relatable. Like I'm sitting here. thinking like every single girl at some.

point in your life, not every single. girl, but like I've been there where I. was dating a guy that had money and. I knew he was cheating on me, but I didn't want to let him know I knew. yet because I didn't have anywhere to. go. Yeah, you just need a minute to. figure out your [ __ ]. like, "Wait, where am I going to go?". I'm living in New York. Like I don't. have a job. What What am I going to do? So, you There is that like fight or. flight moment of like take care of. yourself and then figure it out. So, like if I get in here, then I'll figure. it out. And so I think as much as it may.

seem unrelatable this crazy world, the. theme of just being like, you don't know. where to go and you're going to do. something that like may seem a little. different than the the classic go-to. route of like, go get yourself a job. Well, when someone's saying, do you want. to move into a mansion? I don't know. I. How old are you? 21? 22? 22. Mhm. Yeah. Well, I think a lot of people maybe. like, maybe. So, you have this idea, you. go out with Hef. Had you known all the. girls slept with him or just the main. girlfriend? Cuz I know publicly don't. they say it's just the main girlfriend. Yeah. Okay.

Well, I assumed they all had to sleep. with him at some point, but it was. impossible to get the full story because. the girls would never talk about it, ever. And in fact, right after I joined. the group, we went on a trip to New York. and we were out this Comedy Central. roast they were doing for Hef and this. journalist came up to me and asked me, "Oh, you know, asked just asked me a few. questions." She goes, "So, are you guys. like a traveling harem?" And I just kind. of laughed and said, "Yes." And then one. of the other girlfriends came up to me. after the journalist left and she was.

like, "What did she say to you? What did. you say?" And I told her and she goes, "No, we don't ever say that. Like, we. don't ever admit to sleeping with him. We only say Tina does." Cuz Tina was. like the quote-unquote main girlfriend. at the time. So, they would always kind. of blame it on her so they could like. keep their reputations intact, I guess. wasn't Hef's doing. Like, Hef I mean, I'm like, I don't think Hef would give a. [ __ ] if he's like, "Yeah, I'm [ __ ]. all these seven girls.". everybody to know. In fact, before I. moved in, one of his girlfriends had. gone She was a centerfold and she had. gone on Howard Stern and she full-on. said, "Yeah, I live with him, but we.

don't have sex with him." And he ended. up like banning her from the playmate. list. Like, she wasn't ever allowed to. like do promotions for Playboy again. fully trying to make sure the narrative. is he has sex with all these women. Yeah, absolutely. Which is sort of true. Yeah. Okay. So, you go out that night. I remember you. saying you're getting really hammered as. I think any girl would do as they're. chilling with this like 70, 80-year-old. dude and you're like getting ready for. like a potential night you get back to. the mansion. Well, first he tried to.

offer me quaaludes which I turned out. Dude, tell the daddy gang what he called. them. Tell me that exact name. the whole story. Okay, I got to back up. a little bit too just to show you where. my mindset was. So, I'd been coming up. to the mansion parties for about a year. at that point and I was at a point where. obviously I didn't know Hef well. I'd. never really had like a major. conversation with him, but I got into. the point where I kind of like admired. him and looked up to him cuz he was so. successful and he seemed like such a. nice person who was so like generous. with all his friends and always throwing.

all these, you know, pool parties and. buffets and everybody spoke so highly of. him. And just from the outside everybody. seemed really happy. Like I didn't. notice that a lot of the girlfriends. didn't show up to like the pool parties. and things like that. And I wondered why. they didn't like those things. I didn't. know but. at a pool party. It seems fun. Yeah, so. maybe that was like a hint that they. were miserable that they didn't want to. show up to those things, but I didn't. see it as that at that time. It just. everybody seemed really happy from my. perspective at the time. And um he.

showed a documentary about himself which. sounds funny but he he had a screening. of this documentary about himself one of. the nights I was there and I watched it. and it told this whole story about how. he had this problem um he had a. secretary who ended up killing herself. because she got in some trouble with the. law or some some big long story. Right. And he was saying how like he. didn't do drugs and he didn't ever want. drugs in the house and he felt like the. FBI was trying to like set up this woman. to like rat him out and say there were.

drugs at the house so he was like. talking about how he was like anti-drugs. didn't want drugs at the mansion or. something. So, when we're out at the. club and he offers me these quaaludes, I. thought I was being tested. I thought he. was testing me to see oh is this girl. going to like bring drugs into the house. or she going to do drugs? So, I said no. and he was like oh I go no, I I do drugs. and he goes yeah, I usually don't. either, but you know, in the '70s we. used to call these thigh openers." And. I'm like, "Okay." You're like, "So. listen, grandpa, get that thing the [ __ ].

away from me. No, no, no." Wait, and so. girls would take them? Absolutely. He. would hand them out for years after I. moved in. Like there got to be a point. where his source wasn't available. anymore, so he stopped handing them out. maybe like 3 or 4 years after I moved. in, but he would hand them out every. night, and people would accept them. I. assume they did. like relax them, and then it's like. they're going back to have sex with this. dude. Like at least they'll be relaxed. and not realizing like what the [ __ ] is. happening. Yeah. Okay. So you deny. Love it, Holly. You're like, "Woo, woo, woo." You're.

like, "No, I actually I thought I was. passing test number one." Yeah, she's. like, "But now I'm going to go hit the. vodka super hard." Yeah, totally. And we. always smoked weed when we got back to. the house, too, so it was like always. wasted. Like I don't remember a time in. that bedroom I wasn't wasted. Okay, that tough hole. That's love it, love it. Um so you get back and the. bedroom or the What is it called? The. bed routine or the night night time. routine? What does that even mean? Well, everybody would go upstairs, you know, after we went out, and basically.

everybody would have sex, and I didn't. know what to expect. Like I said before, I assumed everybody was having sex with. them, but I kind of I think I had the. feeling that Okay, well, this is my. first night out, maybe I won't be. expected to do anything my first night. Maybe I could kind of like ease into it. Maybe I could kind of like sounds creepy. like I'm being a total looky-loo, but. maybe I could kind of like see what's. going on or like see what this entails, or maybe somebody will explain it to me. Yeah. And but then when I got up there, I was so wasted and was just kind of. like thrown into it that once it was.

done, there was something about the. experience that made me feel very out of. control. So it sounds a little counterintuitive. when I say. feeling out of control in that situation. made me want to like stick to that. situation more because other people. might say, "Well, if you were. uncomfortable with that, why didn't you. just [ __ ] run?" No, I But for me, like I'm already kind of in this. desperate situation anyway, and I'd. already kind of thought that living at. the mansion might be a solution to my. problems. And I think I felt like if I. were just to leave that night and never.

go back, I would have felt really used. and really chewed Yeah, exactly, really. chewed up and spit out. And then I'd be. dealing with all my real-world problems. on top of Wait, why did I do that? Why. did I like compromise my boundaries? I I. completely understand that. It's almost. like. when you make a decision that you're. like, "Wait, what did I do?" Sometimes. it's way easier to lean harder in rather. than face the truth. And I completely. understand what you're saying about. that. I think it's also really. understandable that you're walking into.

a room where there's seven girls and you. like you're saying, I was hoping maybe. someone would like explain it to me. Yeah. But then reading in the book, you. had a female that Vicky or whoever that. you almost said felt like she was like. grooming girls where it was like she's. in. For sure. Right? She's a girlfriend. And so Daddy. ain't to give you an idea, this girl was. already in the mansion. She would then go find girls that. weren't fully girlfriends that could. come back those nights basically to have. sex so she didn't have to have sex with.

Hef. Like that's how it would have. sounded like it was like. Yeah, because not everybody would have. sex every night. Like if somebody like. kept their underwear on, that meant like. they were on their period or something. like that. And of course people would. try and wear their underwear as many. nights as possible, but then Hef would. always pressure them. Or if somebody. wore He's like, "You've been on your. period for two months. Stop it.". And I think for her, like she used to. tell me that she was like the. quote-unquote lesbian of the group, like. not meaning she was actually a lesbian, but that she would go out and recruit. other girls. And she's like, "I chose. that role." And I always kind of felt. like it was to win favor with Hef, but.

also like to take pressure off of her. So like if she's keeping her underwear. on and not having sex as much, like he. doesn't really put pressure on her. because she's the one who's always Yeah, bringing girls in. Also, the I can only imagine how. intimidating like at 22, I'm trying to. picture myself in that environment and. any girl listening, you can try to. picture it too with me. Like I remember. in the book you said the like two. screens are on with porn on. The lights. are low. Like it's a full basically like.

it sounds like an orgy happening, but. like. I guess my question is while your had. you ever had sex. in a room with people watching you? No. So like. Not at all. Like I'd only ever had like. the most boring basic sex ever. So So. I'm assuming like that's first of all. shocking. Like I can imagine you're like. what is happening and then you I. remember you saying like it was the. fastest situation. Like 1 minute there's.

a body on top of you and the next it's. like over. And he I guess he like does. he always just jack off to finish. himself off? He never comes in a girl. So. after that though, I'm just I I remember. you also saying you were hiding behind. Vicky. Like I felt so bad for you in. that moment. I was like oh my god, poor. Holly, poor Holly. When that all went. down. Also, does he ever pleasure girls? Like did he ever get a girl off or is it. all of you just getting him off? No, I. don't think he ever did I'm trying to.

I'm trying to think I'm trying to go. back and be like no. No, that you. mentioned it No, that that wasn't No, that wasn't his thing. Like he was It wasn't his thing to ever. pleasure the women. So no one was. getting fingered. No one was getting. eaten out by him. I mean, he might like finger people, but. like. let's get you off. So no one everyone's in the room faking. orgasms. Yeah, for sure. So it's a full show. Kind of like. everything else. It's like not just in. the bedroom, everywhere else. So you. leave that experience and that was huge. to me cuz I so resonate with what you're. saying. There were three types of girls.

you said after those moments of having. sex with Hef. It was the runners, the. hustlers, and then the fighters. And can. you describe that tier system so they. can understand that? Well, I felt like, you know, over the years I would see so. many women like just come in for like. one night, and some of them would just. disappear. Like you'd never hear from. them again, and that's kind of I think. what most people think a {quote} normal. reaction might be. Like if you went. upstairs and didn't really like what you. saw or what you participated in that you. would just leave. And then there were people who.

I like other women who lived there. before me, and some who came during. who I mean I I wasn't close with these. people. I didn't get along with them at. all, but and I don't want to like assume. I know what was going on inside of them, but from the outside they seemed like. they were just really good at like. hustling. Like. what they were doing for it. from like the strip club. No No offense. if you're a stripper. I'm not saying. every stripper is the same, but. they just knew the hustle, and they were. good at it, and they seemed a little. more detached where I felt like I was.

just internalizing like all this shame, and I just felt like by sticking it out. I was just fighting like for myself, and. fighting to like get something out of. this experience, I guess. I think that's I understand what you're. saying. Like the girls that almost went. in there when they got into the room and. the lights were off and all the girls. were there, they anticipated that. They. understood like this is the first step, and then the next step is hopefully I. get to move in. Like they obviously. understood what they were trying to get. out of this. You went in. and again I'm going to ask you like what.

You obviously had the idea of like I do. need a place to stay. This does look. kind of like a great situation possibly. And then you get the reality hits. Yeah. You're in a bed with an 8-year-old man. with seven girls, and after that I get. what you're saying. You're like, "Hold. on. If I just [ __ ] this dude, I'm. going to get something out of this. I. can't just now go home." Like not get. something out of this, but like I got to. like keep fighting. Like what Now I do. deserve a [ __ ] bedroom in the house. You know what I mean? sure. Like living at the mansion was.

something I thought would just be like a. super fun like crazy experience in my. 20s that I look back on. Yeah, exactly. I you know, I knew it wasn't going to be. conventional and I was excited about it. and I wanted to stay and like get that. full experience even and even though. that first night wasn't like a sexual. experience that I would have organically. wanted to do. Right. In a way just not being comfortable with. it made me want to push more to get the. part of the experience I wanted out of.

it. Had you. Can I ask you what was the oldest man. prior to half moving to the mansion that. you had had sex with? Oh my gosh, like a. guy in his early 20s probably. Okay, so this was like so new. Yeah, this was like. like this is like out of your comfort. zone. Every everything about the experience. was completely different. And I get what you're saying like now. that you've had time to reflect and. you're saying like maybe I maybe. socially why is it not easy for me to. connect and so maybe this moment was the.

most validating you had felt like you're. saying he started to like you get all. these compliments you know like I guess. this is this is something that I can. attach to. Oh yeah, for sure. Like when you have. this really accomplished older man who. is surrounded by all these people who. just have nothing but the most glowing. things to say about him and he's saying. to me like all the things that now I. know are super cliche for like groomers. but like you're so mature for your age, you're so smart for your age, like. you're so giving for someone your age. remember did you listen to Mia Khalifa.

when she was like if someone says you're. mature for your age [ __ ] run he's. like a creeper. Like what the [ __ ]. And like and I remember he oh my god. there's that's funny cuz Mia was like. run run run but I get what you're saying. but it is kind of like a weird. intoxicating situation that you're being. put into. For sure. Like here was this man who'd. accomplished accomplished so much and. seen so much and he's telling me that. like I'm really special. Like it's hard. not to buy into that cuz you want to. So. I completely. So, you move in. You're. one of seven girlfriends at the time.

First, can you kind of like give. everyone an understanding of what this. place was like? You move in and there's. like allowances, curfews. You have. You're trying to look a certain way. Like, can you roll that out for us? Oh. my gosh, it's hard for me to know where. to start cuz there were so many things. Like, there's the 9:00 curfew, which was. one of the few rules I knew about when I. moved in. Like, I always say it I always. hate it when people say I knew what I. was getting into because I absolutely. did not. Like, I thought I kind of had. like a hazy idea of what living at the. mansion would be before I moved in, but. nobody breaks it down for you. Like, I.

think people imagine it being like 50. Shades of Grey where the woman is like. sat down in a conference room and given. this long contract and you're told. exactly what's going to happen and what. do you consent to and what do you not. It's not like that at all. Like, That's what I remember you saying, too. Like, what a weird dynamic with the girls. They don't They if anything, they try to. glamorize it to the girls outside so. more girls come in at times. Like, you. They won't tell you anything. Yeah, and even as I was there, I would. ask like the women in the room next to. me. I'm like, "Okay, what happens this.

day? What happens that day?" And they. would tell me like the bare minimum. Like, they wouldn't even tell me like, "Oh, this is the salon we go to that he. pays the tab for." While I'm like doing. my hair by myself on my own. You're like. bleaching your hair, dying your hair, and they're like fully There's a salon. that you're allowed to go to. Yeah, nobody really wants to help. anybody else. competition. Yeah, for sure. Like, everybody wants a. centerfold. Like, everybody wants more. money. So, you get allowances. Mhm. We would get like a thousand. dollars a week. Which I thought was. fascinating because you I remember so. savvy trying to figure it out. You're.

like, "Some girls would try to save the. money." Whether you're trying to pay off. your student loans, whatever, save money. so you can get out. And then there were. snitches in the house that would be. like, "I can tell she hasn't bought. anything this week. Like, she's clearly. saving her money.". Yeah, cuz the money was supposed to be. for a clothing allowance for clothes to. wear out to a club or to parties. And um. you know, somebody would point out, "Oh, look at her outfit. That only cost that. much." Like they'd tell one of the. secretaries. So, the secretary would run. back to Hef and go like, "Oh, you don't. need to give her that much money because.

she's not spending it on clothes." So, it was. So, people were like full snitching on. each other. Yeah, and it was this weird game where. you're trying to make it look like you. have something to show for the money, the clothing allowance, but you're also. trying to save so you can like get out. of there. And so, you you get your own room or you. have to have a roommate for a little bit. of time? We each had our own room in the. big Well, actually no, I was put in one. of the bigger rooms with the one of the. other women at first and then someone. moved out. So, I was given uh one of the. smaller rooms by myself. And then I.

moved into Hef's room like a couple. months later when like his main. girlfriend moved out. That we're getting there cuz that whole. thing is so crazy to me. Okay, so the. female dynamic, I think everyone in my. DMs right now was like, you have to ask. her like, was it like a sorority house? Was it not? Kind of paint the picture of I I. remember the quote was like, you it. wasn't like it made a sorority house. look like Bible study. Yeah, it was. horrendous like the first three or four. years I lived there. Like before it was.

just me, Bridget, and Kendra, it was. like me and six other women and it would. rotate like every couple years like. there would be new people and it was. just really cutthroat. Nobody got along. Everybody was trying to like snitch on. the other or like tell Hef a lie about. the other to try and get somebody kicked. out. So, you started in the mansion now and. you were liked because you were like. this innocent girl. I was just more. quiet than the other women. Like they. wanted to like sneak out and go out to. clubs and like find the next celebrity.

to date and things like that. And I just. wanted to like take a minute where I. could like relax and figure out like. what's my next step in life. And when. Hef would do things like have buffet. dinners with his friends or like show. old movies like I genuinely liked going. to those. Like I liked his close friends. and I I watching the old movies. So, the. other girls liked that at first cuz they. were like, "We don't want to do any of. that stuff. So, somebody else is there. doing it that like takes the spot and. he's not going to like criticize us for. not being there." So, that arrangement. worked. But, then and then, you know, when his main girlfriend Tina moved out,

the other girls kind of like pushed me. into that position cuz they didn't want. the scrutiny of having to be the one who. sat next to him and like ordered his. drinks and is there at all the dinners. and things like that. So, they kind of. pushed me into that spot cuz nobody. wanted it. I didn't know that. Cuz I thought every. girl is trying to get the main. girlfriend role. Oh my god. Because I. Holly was like, "Wait, why would anyone. want that?" Because Daddy gang the the. main girlfriend at has to sleep in his. bed. Now, you don't get your own room. You have to sleep in bed with him every. single night. And I can't help but be. like Absolutely zero privacy. Zero.

privacy. You have to sleep with this man. every night. And now all the other girls. are getting the perks of it's be like, "I have my own room. I get the like all. the things." So, did you ever want to be. the main girlfriend? Well, at first I. was flattered by it because it was like. maybe a week after I moved in, one of. the other girlfriends was like, "Oh, I. think, you know, when Tina moves out, Hef really likes you. You're going to be. his next main girlfriend." And of. course, this is like early on in like. Hef's and my relationship. So, it's. still like in the love-bombing phase. And I just felt like I was really. special. Like, "Oh, I'm like the newest.

one here." Like, "And he wants me in. that spot. Oh my god." Meanwhile, everybody else had like been there long. enough to know what the deal was and. they were like, "We don't want to be. there. So, she can go there." But, then. everybody turned on me not long after. because Hef realized that he could use. like my {quote} good behavior as like a. comparison for the other girls. So, if. they were like late to curfew or if they. were like breaking some kind of rule, he'd be like, "Why can't you just behave. like Holly does?" And then then they. hated me. Then it was all over. now you are the person they all hate cuz.

now Hef is comparing all of them to. you." And you're like the. goody-two-shoes and it's like oh. everyone's like, "Holly, [ __ ] go out. once. Like, stop being perfect cuz now. you're making us look bad.". Yeah, like at first they thought of me. as somebody who could like kind of fill. the spot they didn't want and then they. looked at me as like this comparison of. what they could be acting like but. didn't want to. So then they were like, let's get this [ __ ] out of here. It's. interesting cuz like in interviews, it I. think it was 10 years ago, everyone. talks about how you guys were in love. Uh-huh. You loved him, he loved you, he.

thought he was going to spend the rest. of his life with you, you were going to. you tried to have children together. Uh-huh. Where do you think that shift. happened of you being like, I'm just. going to try to get a roof over my head, I want this man's validation and. attention to being like, I'm in love. with this older man. Um I'm trying to think when the shift. actually happened because when I was. ready to move in, I had this vision of. him as someone I really admired, really. looked up to, I really thought he was a.

nice guy based on what I'd seen with my. limited interactions with him and his. friends. And I had pictured when I moved. in, I thought I would be there a year. max just because I'd seen this revolving. door of women coming and going and I. thought everyone was happy with that. situation. I thought that's what he. wanted, I thought the women were happy. with that. So when I decided to move. didn't think I was like hurting anybody. or taking advantage of anybody. It was. just this program that was there and. there's an empty spot right now and I. had just pictured us like having this. friendship, I guess because I'd seen.

other girlfriends of his kind of come. and go and they were always portrayed as. like having this really close friendship. afterward and they'd always come back to. the parties and they always looked so. happy to see each other. So I thought of. our relationship as that at first, but. then I started to feel like I was in. love with him in a very like looking. back on it, I feel like it was a very. Stockholm Syndrome type of thing. where. I just felt like I identified with him. and he was complimenting me so much in.

the beginning and I just started to in. my mind blame all the other problems on. the other women. Like, oh this is a. miserable situation but if these other. women weren't here, it wouldn't be like. that.". Right. And I think also I felt so. attached and connected to him because. after I'd had sex that first night, I. had just kind of locked myself into the. situation in a way because of like the. shame involved, the shame of like. where do I really stand on this? Did I. really think this through? Is this even. like within my boundaries to be like.

having sex in much in front of front of. a bunch of people? And I was thinking. about it today when I was coming here. Like imagine having sex with somebody in. a room full of women who all hate you. and you know they're all talking [ __ ]. about you. Like, how horrible. I I never even thought of it that way. until now. Like, obviously I felt it the. whole time, but I was thinking about it. on my way over here and I'm like. yeah, that was kind of [ __ ] up. is literally traumatic. Mhm. That is I can't even imagine.

Like, that is yeah, that is traumatic. And then to have to how many times a. week would you say you all had to do. that? Twice. Oh. And it's how awful if you're like in a. bad situation with one of those girls. and then it's like, "Let's all get naked. and [ __ ] our boyfriend together." Like, what? Yeah. And they're like watching you? Yeah. It was gross. Is it weird what did you like was it. weird at times dynamic wise? Like, did. you ever feel uncomfortable? Like, did.

you zone out when it was like happening. with Hef or were you like aware of like. the other girls staring at you? Like, did you feel judged at all during that. time? I mean, I think I always felt. judged when it was happening, but I was. dissociating a lot. Like, I would always. drink a lot when we went out and we. would all smoke weed when we got back to. the house and. I was definitely dissociating. Like, even when I think back to it now, like. it was very routine every time. It was. very much the same. It's not like things. really like switched up or got more. crazy, but it was just this thing that I.

feel like everyone just wanted to get it. over with as fast as possible. Okay. I I'm fascinated to know, did you ever. have sex with him not in group setting? Yeah. Okay, so you would have just the two of. you. Was that when you were the main. girlfriend or the. Yeah, when I was the main girlfriend. And would he just because I guess you. would maybe you would know, did he also. have sex with other girls. by himself without group settings while.

you were the main girlfriend? I don't. think so, not that I know of. Okay. And. can I ask you like was it good? Like when you're by yourself with him? You know, when I think back to my. younger self, I feel like I was kind of. asexual for a long time. Like even. though I had a boyfriend in high school. who I was into and in college I dated a. couple a couple people. I feel like when. I look back at my college years, I. almost feel like I was dating more just. out of loneliness or cuz I felt like I. should.

Interesting. Because I didn't really. feel like I was into guys and I wasn't. into women either, but I didn't feel. like I was really into guys sexually. until after. So maybe And I think also, not to interrupt, but I think I think. also that kind of plays into maybe one. of the reasons I was so okay making the. decision to move into the mansion. because I was kind of not as interested. in guys. I wasn't like the typical. 22-year-old where I'm like crushing on. all these guys in college and wanting to. be with them or you know, really feeling.

like I need to [ __ ] a certain guy cuz. this guy is hot. Like I didn't have. those feelings at that point. So making. the decision to move into the mansion. maybe. transactional for you. It wasn't like, "Oh my god, I have to like think this. guy is hot cuz you know what? I'm not. even like that horny for any other guy.". Cuz the amount of people that are like, "How many vibrators are in this freaking. house on a day-to-day basis?" And like, "How often are of girls masturbating?". Because there's no way like you had. said, like he's not trying to please any. of the women. It's just to get Hef off.

So, it's like. how did that I get Yeah, so that makes a. lot of sense, Holly. I appreciate you. for clearing that because clarifying. that because I think the dynamic of. having sex with this man, not getting. pleasured, there are girls that had. boyfriends. The question was like, "Why. didn't you try to get a boyfriend?" Like. was there ever you at a party where like. what Who's that one celebrity that was. like hitting on you that you're like, "Ooh, should I risk it all for Hef?" And. what I'm hearing you say is like you. kind of weren't interested in any type.

of relationship at the time. Yeah, not. at all. I wasn't interested in anybody. until I met the guy that I dated right. after Hef, and that was like at the tail. end of the relationship when I had. already decided I don't want to be here. anymore. Do you. Why What do you think changed that? Is. that the man you married? No, that's. No. Uh He who shall not be named. Oh, yeah, he who shall not be named. I mean, everybody can figure it out, but. I remember watching his [ __ ] it was. wild. Okay, so you but you did find him. attractive and you did want to have sex. with him. Mhm. Interesting. And you do.

know why that changed for you? Um I. think for me, I I don't know. I think I. just had to. I mean, maybe it's part of the whole. thing where I feel like I'm not. neurotypical. Maybe I just and it takes. me longer to connect with people and I. just had to mature into it, maybe. And I. think also just gaining confidence. through doing the show and I also got a. job at the Playboy studio and just. becoming more of a woman on my own and. doing my own things. Because when I was a teenager in my.

early 20s, I just didn't know who I was. at all. Right. Like I'm assuming. Can I ask you when you had your first. orgasm? Oh, no, I'd had an orgasm like with my. high school boyfriend. Like I was able. to do it, but I just didn't really like. have as much desire, I guess. Like I. wasn't high sex. was just not like you're not like trying. to like [ __ ] every dude. Yeah, I was never like crushing on. random guys, really. that that's okay, though. Like I think.

I think that's what I have tried to. clarify more with my show recently that. in the beginning of Call Her Daddy, the. content was so salacious and half of it. was like, let's just try to get people. to notice the show. And you're just. saying crazy [ __ ] and some of it we. didn't fully we're like, I don't know if. this is like true, but like we're going. to say crazy [ __ ]. And. then the point to female empowerment was. like, you can [ __ ] 19 dudes in one night. and it's fine. Also, I think there's an. importance for me now to make sure.

females know women know. you also don't have to want to have sex. every day. You don't have to want to do. cartwheels on a dick to be cool. You. don't have to have a boyfriend and want. to have sex every day. Like there's such. a pressure for women to be like, you. need to want to have sex just as much as. men. Why don't you? What's wrong with. you? Yeah. Like it's always like men and their. testosterone and then women are like, I. feel like I don't want to have sex as. much. Like what's wrong with me? And the. fact that you're on Call Her Daddy right. now just being like, I was like didn't.

really wasn't interested. Like I didn't. really want to have sex with him and so. it didn't really matter that I was just. like going with whoever at the time. Like it wasn't something that was at the. forefront of your mind and your life and. your brain. So that makes sense. And I. think anyone listening, you shouldn't. feel shamed if your sex drive is much. lower than what maybe your friend in the. room is saying. She's like, masturbates. 19 times a day. Great. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think it's so amazing. that we're moving to this time where we. can talk about it and we can talk about. women being empowered in their own. sexuality. Like like you said, if you.

want to [ __ ] 19 guys in one night, amazing. But if you want to like not, that's fine, too. I think the most. important thing is just to like take. time to get to know yourself and be in. tune with like what you want and what. you don't want, what you care about, what you kind of care about a little. bit, but it's not a big deal, you know? You. When you tried to have a child with Hef. Uh-huh. and you couldn't. And at first you didn't know why, right? Well, I knew it was because of him. Like. I was healthy, but he was just too old. And as much as you look back on that now.

would you say that you're happy that. didn't happen? Yes. Thank god. Oh my god. It's just like when I was when I had. first gotten into that situation and. something happened in my mind that first. night I had sex where I felt like okay, I did that. I like breached my own. boundaries and I wasn't comfortable with. it. Now I have to make this situation. into something. I'd almost like locked. myself into this box in a way. Which. wasn't hard to do there cuz it's a very. cult-like atmosphere anyway and you're. manipulated to feel that way. But on top.

of it like my own kind of shame kept me. there, too. That I just couldn't really. I. couldn't really imagine a life outside. of there. Like I thought, "Okay, this is. my last stop if I want to have kids, I'm. going to try." And then when I knew that. wasn't going to be a possibility with. him. Like we tried in vitro and. everything, it didn't work. Um. I was like, "Okay, well if I'm not going. to have kids here, that's something I. need to think about. Like I this is. really like a death sentence in a way.". Yeah. What what resonated for me and I. know a lot of women would be able to.

relate is like you were in a fully. verbally and emotionally abusive. relationship. 1,000% As I'm reading this. book, I'm like, "Holy [ __ ] this dude is. not toxic. He is abusive." Yeah. And. I'm assuming that also played you were. in a heightened situation where. any relationship that you're in that is. verbally and emotionally abusive, it is. so hard to get out of because you are. being fully manipulated. And you are And. And then in your sense, it then is the.

Stockholm Syndrome of. outside world to you probably look like, "How am I going to go get a normal job. now? Are people going to accept me?" Cuz. I know you said this in the book. It was. like, "I was nervous about like what. does life look like outside of the. mansion doors? And I didn't have a set. life plan right away. So, I was like, I'm going to just stay here cuz this is. at least safer than me going out. And. one of I forget who it was, but someone. left the mansion that had had a. centerfold or something and then like. moved back home. Yeah, no, it happened a. few months after I moved in. Well, first.

also another thing that happened is like. a week after I moved in, 9/11 happened. And that for people who don't remember, even if you weren't in on the East Coast. or close to it, it was so scary because. all you hear is like, "Oh my god, the. Twin Towers have been attacked." And. then the Pentagon's been attacked. And. the next thing you think is, "Okay, what's next?" Like any major city? And I. just remember having gone from like. sleeping on a friend's couch and not. knowing what I'm doing the next day to. living in this fortress like when 9/11. happened. That was another little moment. that kind of made me feel like, "Oh my. god, I'm safe here.". And then after a few months after that,

there was kind of this shift with the. group where there was almost a full turn. turnover. And the women who moved out, I saw what. happened to them. A lot of them went. into escorting. And some of them had. moved back home, which I knew they. didn't want to do, but like they. couldn't make it in LA. They couldn't. make ends meet. And some of them got. banned from ever coming back to the. mansion because of the way the way they. were kicked out. Like say if they were. caught cheating on Hef or whatever. And. then it was always like talked about and. shamed within the mansion. So, moving.

out to me looked very scary. Yeah, it. doesn't doesn't look like there's a lot. out there after if you're watching girls. leave. It's like, "I don't want to do. that.". So, why why don't I stay here? You talk. a lot too in the book about like losing. your mind a little bit in terms of like. feeling like you just got like robotic. And you like started to lose yourself. And like you were like, "I feel dumb. Like I feel dumber. Like what am I. doing?" Like, can you explain that? Yeah, I just after being there for a. couple years, I just started to notice. that I developed a stammer when I tried.

to speak, which I had never had before. And I just felt like my brain felt. slower. Like I was slower to think of. certain things and think of. Why do you think you got a stammer? Like. do you think it was because you were. I think it was part of being nervous, part of like partly doubting myself, partly just being in this environment. where I was always drinking and like my. mind was never stimulated. That's so I. started I started like going back to. school while I was there and like. studying and things like that and that. kind of got me back. But just being in.

an atmosphere where you're only valued. for your looks and you're just expected. go out and party all the time. like you were never able to like step. out of place. Like and if you did that. you're getting yelled at by him. Exactly. I was. You're in a toxic relationship. Yeah, I was kind of always in fear of. either getting like sabotaged by one of. the other women. I was always afraid of. getting kicked out. I was always afraid. of him yelling at me or embarrassing me. in front of people. It Like when I look. back on that time in my life, I feel. like I was in constant fight or flight.

The. saddest part obviously was when you. discuss being suicidal in the mansion. Yeah. And you say that you were at a. point where you were in an environment. that was driving you towards thinking. you wanted to take your life. And you. went to Hef and he basically told you. that he didn't want you to go see a. psychiatrist because she would they. would just tell you leave the mansion. Yeah. What was that the first time that you. were suicidal in your life? I dealt with depression before. Like in.

high school I'd had it, in college I'd. had it a little bit. And then when I was. at the mansion I got to the point where. I was having pretty heavy suicidal. ideations because I just. was so miserable. It was before the show. had come along. So I. didn't really feel like I had. opportunities or anything that made me. feel useful and it was just all this. infighting within the women. So I felt. like. there was a hostile world waiting for me. outside cuz I felt like anytime I told. anybody like where I lived or what I was. doing they reacted pretty negatively or.

they felt like they had license to like. ask me any kind of explicit questions. about my sex life. And. You had mentioned that you had mentioned. that to me in our um conversation. You. were like, "People would feel the need. they would come up to me and felt it was. okay to say to me like ask me sex. questions." And it's like. Yeah. Today, no one would ever ask in an. interview the questions that you were. asked back then. Yeah, especially in a. situation like that because if a. situation like that was going on today, you might look at those women and be. like, "Are you okay?". Yes. But back then it was like, "Oh, do.

you have to [ __ ] him? Gross.". Yeah, it's like, "Well, why don't you. ask the girl that's in her 20s, are you. okay?" Instead of like, yeah, judging. So, that was all happening. Mhm. When he told you not to get help. that obviously was a huge red flag, but. did you see it as a red flag at the. time? I did see it as a red flag and. eventually. I he told me to talk to his secretary. about it. I did. And eventually I did go. to a psychiatrist, but it was one that. like his doctor recommended.

Yeah. Of course. Of course. So, um this. was right before we started filming the. show and he put me on an antidepressant. and said that I was having anxiety. because the show was going to start. shooting. And even though the show. turned out to be a really good. opportunity, I remember when we were. told that this is what you guys are. going to do, a part of me was really. scared because I've always been pretty. private and I had wanted to be in the. entertainment industry in some way. That. was like kind of what attracted me to. Playboy in the first place, but I would. always thought of it as like being an. actress or like hosting a show, something like that. Like back then.

there wasn't even social media. So, I. was pretty private. I was scared to like. live this life publicly on the show, especially since there was like so much. shame involved in it for me. And and I was just stressed out because. I always felt tricked at the mansion. I. always felt like Dude, the contracts. You had a contract with The Girls Next. Door starts blowing up. It We're going. all the way back to the Mia episode yet. again. It's like, what is with girls. getting handed contracts and you have 2.

seconds to sign it and you're. threatening them. I'm pretty sure that's. literally illegal. And they said to you. like you have to sign it now and then. there was all speculation that Kendra. wasn't there to sign it and they like. forged her signature. Yeah, I don't know. for a fact if that's what happened, but. I remember hearing all the talk in the. office about it. Like, "Oh, Kendra's not. here this weekend, but we have to get. this signed." And I don't know like if. she actually signed it. Like maybe she. thinks she did. Like maybe they handed. her a paper like the day she got back, but and maybe they were lying to Bridget.

and I and saying, "Oh, we need the. papers this day and you guys have to. sign it." And maybe they didn't really. need it that day. I don't know, but in. my opinion we signed those contracts. under duress because it was like the. three of us, as far as I know, each had. a reason for not wanting to sign it. It. was like, "No, you have to sign it or. there's not going to be a show." And you. know, what what you like you live here, you have to do it. What And you were nervous to sign it? Was it because you wanted to like make. sure that you were getting something out. of it or was that like the first season?

No, it was like I don't remember what. season it was. It was like midway. through the whole show because when we. first started filming, they didn't even. pay us. They just like expected to do us. to do it. They didn't pay us. They also. didn't inform us when the nudity was. going to be unblurred because we were. filming this. with the full expectation that. everything was going to be blurred cuz. you can't show nudity on cable TV at. that time. Yeah. And you know, for. people who might not understand if. they've never posed nude or anything, you might think, "Well, if you pose. nude, why would you care if there was. like a naked video out there?" But.

there's just different levels for. everybody. You know, some people, you. know, if you're Mormon, you wear a. garment under your suit all the time cuz. that's what you're comfortable with. Some people feel comfortable changing in. a spa locker room in front of other. women, but they would never pose nude. Some people feel comfortable posing nude. posing nude, but they wouldn't want like. a video of them walking around naked. broadcast around the world. Absolutely. So when we're doing this. show and we're filming like our nude. pictorials, which is in front of like. the Playboy crew, and like they do this. for a living. They don't care. We're. comfortable being naked in front of. them. But, we had the expectation that.

any video of us would be blurred and. wouldn't be shown. And somewhere in the middle of the first. season, they decided to take the. blurring away because Hef would always. screen the show the night it came out. like after the Sunday movie. Right. Or before the Sunday movie, I. don't remember. So, when he showed one. of the episodes, all of a sudden, like. halfway through one of the seasons, the. nudity wasn't blurred and we're like, "Uh-oh, okay. All right." But, they. never told us that. And you're not. making [ __ ] money from it.

No. So, it's like, how [ __ ] wrong? Yeah, they just thought that because we. lived there that, you know, they just. owned us. And we were always told we. were replaceable. And eventually, of. course, we got paid for it. And then. when the contracts came along, I don't. remember what season we signed the. contracts. It was like midway through. the whole thing. And Bridget didn't want to sign it right. away cuz she wanted her lawyer to look. at it, which is totally reasonable. I. think Kendra was gone and I think wanted. her manager to look at it, which is. totally reasonable. I didn't want to. sign it because I felt like it was.

creepy because I felt like I was signing. a contract to be in a relationship, basically. And I told Hef that and he. goes, "Aw, that's sweet. Yeah, but you. need to sign it because. you know, we need it today or like E! isn't going to order the show." And I. just don't really believe a network. would operate that way. So, I think they. were lying. But, it was creepy. was a full that was another example on a. lar one of the largest scales of like. you fully getting manipulated yet again. by this man and taking and fully taken. advantage of. The fact that your content. is out there and you're nude and you did.

not sign off on it and you're not. getting paid for it. Manipulative. Yeah, for sure. like not okay. Yeah. Um. Once Girls Next Door ends. Mhm. and you you had said to, which is. interesting, like once the other girls. were going to leave and it's interesting. to go back to what you had said, you. were like, I thought maybe it would be. better with just me there. Like I. thought maybe my relationship with Hef. would be better. Then when you realize. you couldn't have kids, then Kendra and. um Bridget are moving along, you decide. to end the relationship with Hef.

Yeah. And. do is there something you remember like. in a day randomly being like, I see the. light, I want to leave? Cuz like you're. leaving a toxic relationship, an abusive. relationship. Most girls it's like they. never get to that point to be able to. see it. There's no one also like pulling. you out of it, Holly. There's no like. family member being like, Holly, we're. coming to get you and pack up your. stuff. You're going to have to pack up. your suitcase by yourself and walk out. the doors back to your old car and like. leave. How did you get to that point. ready to leave? Um it was over the.

course of a few months because I had a. lot of guilt. I felt like I'd made a. commitment to be with him. I mean, it's. laughable thinking back, but I felt like. I'd made a commitment to be with him and. we talked about, you know, being. together for the rest of his life. And I. So I felt a little bit guilty about. leaving. But, you know, when I realized I wasn't. going to be able to have kids with him, that was a big thing. And not just that, but also the fact that I was sad about. it when that was the outcome. And he. just didn't really like.

care to ask me how I was feeling or. anything like that. And my depression. was coming back and he would go and ask. Bridget why I was depressed, but like he. wouldn't ask me. And Bridget was like, I. don't know, I think you need to go talk. to Holly. And like he wouldn't come talk. to me about it. It was just really. weird. So, it was that and also the fact that over. the years I'd been living there, I had. been like making excuses in my mind for. this whole relationship. And I always. thought that the other women were the. problem. And if they were gone and if I. didn't have to deal with any of that. [ __ ] then I could be happy. But as.

everybody was leaving and I started to. realize, okay, it's just me and Hef, he started lashing out at me more. And. I'm not really sure why that was. I. don't know if he was just like stressed. because like behind the scenes maybe. things weren't going great financially, which I didn't know at the time, but. after I left I know things weren't so. great financially for him, so maybe he. had some stress or maybe he just didn't. have the games of like pitting the three. of us against each other anymore since. Bridget and Kendra were moving out, but.

he started lashing out at me more for. like really stupid things and I just. realized like I can't be here. Like this. guy is an [ __ ] Like I can't stay. here. But still, even still I felt. guilty leaving, so it took time and it. took me actually being like interested. in another man before I finally was. like, "Okay, I have to pull the plug cuz. I'm not going to cheat." So. It's crazy that you say you felt guilty. Yeah, isn't that weird? It just goes. along with like all the love bombing. stuff and like the we're going to be. together forever and you're going to be. with me for the rest of my life and blah. blah blah. Like he would compare me to. Belle in Beauty and the Beast. Like I.

just came along to this guy. This is so. silly. compare you to Belle. Yeah. Dude, this guy, it's so sad because now. that you've had time to step away from. it, like I obviously reading your book. it was clear that. he is well he's full he was he was I'm. sorry he was fully a sex addict. Like. had to have been. Um. You don't have to comment on this, but. like fully like maybe weirdo pedophile.

[ __ ] going on. Like he. the amount of things that you were. adding up together of one, the fact that. he had your childhood photo near his bed. was would be cute maybe for a boyfriend, but the amount that you were also. explaining of like he was so fascinated. with young young women. Yeah, like he. was very careful about like what was. legal as far as being with anybody over. 18, but there were just little clues I. picked up on over the years that were. just kind of gross. Like nothing overt,

nothing to the point where I was like. holly. I I I. I found this weird old reel because I. his room used to be just like this. hellhole of like stacks and stacks of. videotapes. like a hoarder. Yeah, and I was like I'm going to clean. this room up. I was like I'm going to. get rid of these tapes. Yeah. So I'm. cleaning the room up and like I opened. this one drawer and there's this old. like film reel and it said girl and dog. and it was in the porn section. I'm just. like That is so disturbing. Was there. anything that he ever did like kinky.

wise that you were like what the [ __ ]. No, because the sex was pretty like as. not basic as it was it was basic in that. it was kind of the same every time. But he always like had a fixation on. everyone like always being fully shaved. Okay. Yeah, and he always like like. vaginas to look a certain way. Like. what? Like. Like nothing sticking out. innies not outies type of thing.

Yeah, and I I don't know. I just I just. feel like his obsession with like young. women was semi-gross. Oh, okay. Cuz it was like a little. girl's vagina basically. How did you. know that? Would he say that to the. girls? Yeah, no he would like get mad if. somebody wasn't shaved or like. you know. comments and like maybe the girl with. the outie wasn't invited back. That was the sex him literally always. just being missionary. I'm like. picturing this old man just like what. how was he having sex? was. for the most part like it wasn't this.

way the first time I was there. But like he was on top the first time. but he was always laying down every. other time that I remember. Oh, and so you guys would have to get on. top. Yeah. Okay, so this man is now not only. pleasuring you guys but he's like laying. there and you guys have to do the work. Yeah. God, he was so selfish. But I have to. ask just because daddy gang is like you. have what was his dick like? Did he have a big dick? It it was just. like normal. Yeah. There was nothing. like And he always had to take Viagra.

Yeah. For having faked it Cuz I'm. assuming did you ever have an orgasm. with him? I mean, I was too messed up, I think. Yeah, it you cuz it was fully. transactional. You're in the moment, you're like, this is It's almost like. your job. messed up like drunk and high. Right. Right. Yeah, like how exactly. Drunk, I'm like not having an orgasm. Even if I love the person. Um, you Okay, so you go through all this mansion and. you finally leave. The ironic thing is. when I left the mansion, I got sucked. into another relationship that was. really bad. Even though I knew when I.

was getting out of the mansion, I was. like, "Okay, I'm not going to move in. with this guy. I'm going to like have my. own place and my own life." Like I was. so ready mentally to be independent, but. it was another like love bombing. relationship where it was like, "No, you. need to move in with me. Like this is. going to happen. You need to move in. with me. Blah blah blah." And I just. fell into that and I think it was easier. for me to fall into that because this. was a guy who was 10 years older than. me, but still much closer to my age than. Hef was. And seems like somebody, you. know, Oh, and he was like hot at the. time. Yeah. I remember watching his show. I.

don't even remember what it was on, but. I thought like he's still doing his. [ __ ] I don't know, but I remember him. being like the hottest thing. And then. you two were like an it couple at the. time. Did you have. Cuz that's crazy to go from a toxic. relationship and then you get right into. and it was like overlapped. Like right. as you're leaving Hef, you meet him. You. get out of the mansion and then you go. right back into a toxic relationship. How long did that relationship last? Not very long. It was only like 4 to 6. months. Okay, and then you were like you put a. halt to it.

Yeah. the [ __ ] is going on? I'm repeating. patterns. You may look a little bit. different, but it's the same situation.". Yeah, I really feel like that was sent. to me by the universe to just be like. this. final like dot on the I. Just to be. like, "Okay, you need to never like get. into a relationship like this again.". Because I was given um a different. version of the Hef relationship just. without with a younger person and. without like the whole cult Right. cult-y type of around it, but. as you've grown up now and like you look. back on these years, do you find.

something that you feel like you could. help someone listening that feels like. they keep getting into toxic. relationships? Like, what was it. initially about these people that drew. you to them? And then what like how do. you feel like you kept getting How did. you go from have to that immediately? Like was it familiar to you that you. thought you Did you have in mind like. I'm going to try something different, but you went right to the same thing or. were you not thinking that? Like sure I. go to something different. I definitely. thought I was doing something different. I thought this I thought this guy was.

going to be like the polar opposite. because he was younger and I just and he. didn't have the same type of lifestyle. And I mean what to watch out for is like. love bombing, of course. And back then. like love bombing, I don't even think. that term had been coined. Like nobody. talked about it. So when a guy is. talking about wanting to get married on. your first date, like you Yeah, you're. kind of laughing like haha stupid and. you like tell one friend about it like. it's funny, but then you kind of kind of. want to believe it. So I'm I would. definitely like not take people too. seriously if they're like laying it on.

too strong in the very beginning cuz do. you even want somebody who like wants to. like marry you after without even. knowing you? Like that's creepy. That's. a really good point. Yeah, and and just like wanting. like pressure to move in together too. soon is a really bad sign. And sometimes. I feel like I don't even see the true. colors of these people until they have. you in a position where you're dependent. on them in some way. Like after you've. been pressured to quit your job and.

after your valuables are in his safe and. after, you know, he's pressured you to. stop meeting up with your friends and. things like that, then the real side. comes out. So those are definitely It's. warning signs. It's the isolation I'm. hearing too of like I know I have had. friends that have gotten into cuz I've. been in toxic, but like I've never Well, no, I did start to isolate myself from. my family a little bit and stop telling. them maybe some of the bad things he was. doing because I was like, "But what if. like things get better?" And then like I. don't want to throw him under the bus to. my mom cuz you know when you tell your. mom something then it's like it's over.

And then all of a sudden you look around. and the only person that you have is him. and that's the dependency factor where. it's like I isolated myself from my. friends, my family, my job and now I. have him and then that is like what they. want. But you have to continue to make. sure that the there are other people. around you that can be objective when it. comes to you and that relationship. Like. you should be able to talk to your. friends about your relationship and if. you can't, why? Yeah, and I think it's. not always just cuz they're judgy. friends. Yeah, and they are, there's a few but.

like most of the time it's like, "Well, why can't you talk about your. relationship? Is it [ __ ] up?" Yeah, is. it embarrassing to you? And I think it's interesting what you. said about how you always thought it was. going to get better because when my book. first came out, I would so often get. criticism like, "Well, if you didn't. like it, why didn't you leave?" And I. think when people don't leave. relationships like that, a big part of. it other than just feeling isolated and. feeling like you don't have resources is. there's a part of you that really truly. believes it's going to get better. And. that's not to say like a bad. relationship can't ever get better, but.

it definitely clouds your judgment for. sure. Like you think it's going to get. better, you think this was the last. fight and oh my god, they're so much. nicer now. And I just think you really. need to be vigilant about looking out. for the red flags like somebody who. wants you to move in too quickly or. somebody who wants you to like hand over. your valuables or like stop hanging out. with your friends. It's crazy you say this too because I. have someone in my life right now that. it's been almost it's been a few years. now of. they're in a toxic relationship and.

you have to be so if anyone's listening. that you were like, "My friend is in. one." The advice I could give is like. when people say to you how like, "Why. didn't she just leave?" That is the. dumbest [ __ ] question I have ever. heard. You clearly don't understand how. humans mind work. Like you were in a. situation that was so [ __ ] that to get. out of something like that, it takes at. times years. And I'm looking at someone. right now in an unhealthy relationship. with their partner and she. is somewhat starting to see it, but you.

also have to as a friend, if you [ __ ] on. that person's relationship so much, they. will fully pull away from you. So, it's. a hard balance of trying to make sure. you're supportive and you're there for. the person, but slowly when they're. listening and they're [ __ ] on the. person maybe that like they're coming to. you and finally opening up to you like, "Hey, I'm not really comfortable.". Instead of being like, "You got to leave. them." Sometimes it just starts with. listening and being there for support. and you don't have to provide a. solution. I always joke to my boyfriend, I'm like, "You always think I'm coming. to you and I need a solution. I really. just need you to listen." Most of the. time if someone's in a toxic.

relationship, the start of them having. any strength, the fact that they're even. talking to you about it is step one. Sit. there and listen cuz that's what I've. been doing and then finally, I feel like. I'm in phase two's with two with this. person where she's finally kind of being. like, looking at like, "What would life look. like without him? And how do I even. actualize that?" And slowly I've started. to try to help her like, "Well, this is. maybe like what you could do or like. have you thought about living on your. own? And like you don't even have to. fully break up. Like what about like. living on your own?" It's like, "Well, no, he he wants me to live with him.". I'm like, "Well, maybe that's something.

to think about." Like you just have to. slowly go through those. parts with them and not force them to. leave because like Holly's saying, how. the [ __ ] would you know where to go, what to do? You were terrified and you. were also being verbally and mentally. abused. So, it's like it's not as easy. as just leave. No, it's not that easy. Especially when you're in like a city. that you were having trouble making it. in. for a while and it's expensive and and I. think too like if you have a friend in a. situation like that, just for that. person to know that somebody is out.

there willing to listen and not judge is. so helpful cuz I was so scared to talk. to anybody for so long cuz I was just. scared of being judged like, "Ew, why. did you sleep with that guy?" You know? Right. And instead it's like just be open and. accepting of whatever they're coming to. you with because that's half the time. all someone needs is just someone to. listen. You are a boss-ass [ __ ] and when you. leave the mansion, you go Dancing with. the Stars. You start I mean, the. Peepshow gave me chills because watching. you be headlining a show that was.

supposed to have people like rotating in. as the main, and then Holly comes in and. gets a show in Vegas and knocks it out. of the [ __ ] park. You are I loved Oh, and you didn't interview, too, and. someone said like you cuz at the time um. who you were married to, they're like, "Oh, yeah, and his bank account." You're. like, "I was doing well before I was. married, also.". Yeah. you for a little bit there. Yeah, and I think it's so great just. having like the experiences I had when I. was married. Like my husband was very, very generous, but we never really like. merged finances. Like we always had a.

pre-nup that like kept everything. separate. And even now, like I don't. accept alimony from him or anything, and. like we're just co-parenting, and. everything's good. And I think it's good. advice for anybody moving forward is to. like always keep your own thing going. and just to always keep your own. finances good. And That's huge. Like. it's crazy, I think as A lot of people. don't talk about that, and I think. that's a good topic, Holly, of like you. having had. um been married, had your own success,

you go, you get this amazing gig in. Vegas, you are like the woman of Vegas, you're killing it. Like you have you are. so talented. You can't just headline a. show and it just be like, "Oh, but it's. just cuz she was Hugh Hefner's. girlfriend." Nope, [ __ ] off. You are so. talented. You killed it. You did Dancing. with the Stars. Um you were making your. own money. To then go Like it's so. fascinating to me. I always thought. joking when I was younger, like whenever. people are like, "Oh, pre-nups." I'm. like, "Oh my gosh, when you're younger, you're like, Oh my god, if he says he. wants a pre-nup, he like doesn't love. you." Meanwhile, I'm like, "Oh, whoever.

I [ __ ] marry, pre-nup." Exactly. I. don't even understand why this day and. age people even their finances and. earnings get merged when they're. married. I don't understand that. point. Like if you want to make a deal with. your significant other and you're like, "Okay, since you're spending so much. time raising the kids, I'm going to make. sure you get this." Like that should be. talked about separately. It shouldn't be. I just don't believe people should get. married and automatically everything's. merged. I think that's [ __ ] up. and also not that I'm a pessimist here,

but 50% of marriages end in divorce. So. it's like not that you're planning for. it to end, but like be smart and I. especially to all the girls listening. like I agree. I've had so many friends. parents that got divorced and the mom. back then cuz back then it was like. women weren't usually working and it's. like they don't have anything. They were. like, "Oh, I didn't have a bank account. to myself." And it's like make sure you. are good on your own and don't rely on. someone else because you never [ __ ]. know what's about to happen. And now. you're sitting here like I don't I mean.

I don't need alimony. We're. co-parenting. I'm good. I have my own. [ __ ] I worked my ass off to get where I. am. And now you're sitting here with me and. I'm like I'm in shock that you're here, but like it's amazing your journey of. saying you were suicidal in the mansion. You were getting abused and mentally, physically, all the things you're just. like down in the dumps and now you're. sitting here and you're like, "Oh, I I'm. a boss ass [ __ ] I did all this." You. can go through hardships in life and. then you can rise from the [ __ ]. ashes. Absolutely. Like I think you can take. almost anything you've gone through and. turn it into something positive and I. think that's part of, you know, what I.

was holding on to when I was there and. just hoping things would get better. I'm. like I have to turn this into something. Like I don't want to look back on this. and think, "Oh, that was that shitty. night where I felt, you know, used and. chewed up and spit out." Like I want to. Right. Thrive. And like I said, you not. only survived, but you thrived. Mhm. Your book now having had come out, when you look back on writing it, the I. had said to you obviously there was some. shade getting thrown from both you,

Kendra, everyone. Yeah. Do you feel like. now you still stand by everything you. said in the book or is there anything. different that you feel or you kind of. still on the same page? Oh, no, I'm 100%. still on the same page. I just There's. one tiny little nitpicky thing. Like I. think I commented a lot about on other. women's like plastic surgery at the. mansion. Not naming names or anything, but I would say, "Oh, this person had so. much filler in her face. She looked all". And it wasn't like I'm even trying to. tear her down. I was more trying to make. a commentary on how toxic everybody's.

like dysmorphia and body issues and the. competition were there. And now plastic. surgery is so much more common, but 15. years ago it really wasn't. Yep. So, when I stepped into the mansion. and I'm hanging out in one of the girls'. rooms and she's like pinching her. stomach and saying, "Uh, I need to get. lipo." And then she picks up the phone. and orders chocolate cake for breakfast. It was just like a whole new world. I. was just like, "Wait, what is happening. here?" It was just like plastic surgery. was so common. So, I think I would like. word that different because going back I. kind of look at it and I'm like, "Oh, it. sounds like I'm being catty or mean.".

And that like wasn't the point. It was. more like I'm just trying to comment. And I've had plastic surgery. I don't. care. I don't think there's anything. wrong with it. But, no, everything in my. book I still feel like the same way. about it. I I kind of I I agree with you in the. sense that I'm also sure what you were. trying to point out was when you first. got there, you would had your boobs. done, but you weren't fully morphed into. the girl next door that you see on the. show yet. And so, like you said, your. hair wasn't a certain way, your face. didn't look a certain way, you weren't. doing your makeup a certain way. So, when you got there, you're looking at.

these women and you were almost. observing like, "Oh, wow, I don't look. anything like them other than that I. have blonde hair and like big boobs. yet." And like then you slowly started. to make decisions because you realized. Hef liked a certain, like you said, he. liked the girl to be tan, have deep. platinum hair. Um, and then you started. to go into that. But, I agree with you. I loved what you said about plastic. surgery in your interview on E! where. you said. you use it as you're like your looks are. like a tool. Yeah, it's not who you are.

on the inside. So, I think people get so. mad when they see other people get. plastic surgery like they're cheating at. life or something and it's like looks. aren't even that deep. Like calm down. Like I want to look a certain way at. this point in my life almost as like a. hobby. It's just like the aesthetic I. like. Like it's just like a tool, you. know, to get through like it's not who. you are. Yeah, and I think we would be. looks you can you can put them at in a. caliber of they matter or they don't. matter. However, you want to look at it. If you care about your appearance, I.

said this with Mia off camera. We were. talking about why do why does no one. [ __ ] on a guy if he has a six-pack abs? But if girls are trying to make sure. they look great, why are girls getting. shamed if they want to get plastic. surgery or they want to work out and get. that six-pack? Like we never comment on. men and their bodies, but women it's so. fixated. Like why is she getting plastic. surgery? Cuz I want to. Yeah. Cuz I want to look great cuz I think. I'll look great. And you don't have to. get a boob job. You don't have to get. any plastic surgery, but I want to and. you're saying like you use it as a tool.

especially in the field you were in. You're like I'm thriving and looks in. your field matters. So, it's like why. not play up that, but also it has. nothing to do with who you are inside. and what else you have to offer and your. brain. Yeah, exactly. Like that's they're completely separate. So, I think the shaming of. I agree with you. I'm kind of really. happy that there has been a turn in. society recently that women are feeling. more open to be able to talk about any. type of plastic surgery and it's not cuz. it used to be shamed for sure. I'm. hoping everyone listening is not shaming.

people for doing whatever they it's your. body. You can do whatever the [ __ ] you. want to it. Um. do you have a relationship with Kendra. at all now? No. Okay. And you have a. relationship with Bridget? Yeah. Yeah, Bridget and I have always. been close. We've always been friends. with each other. the sweetest human. Yeah, she is. in the world. Uh-huh. Do you look back and regret. anything you did on Girls Next Door? I'm. sure there's Um I mean. when I look back at Girls Next Door, especially the first few seasons, I see. myself just coping. Like I was really.

stiff and not open and just like a robot. and just saying the type of things that. I felt like Hef would want me to say and. things that made him look good. Right. And I almost can't really regret that. cuz I don't know how else I would have. coped. Like now, you know, in front of. the camera for anything, I'm just myself. and I'm more open. And in a way, I'd. love to look back and be like, oh, I. would love to have been myself more, but. I mean, I couldn't have. There's no way. I couldn't have said what I was really. thinking or feeling. Like I would have. been like It would have been cut. It. wouldn't have made It wouldn't have made. it to the airwaves, but yeah, I was just.

super guarded. I was just super. nervous about just putting my private. life out into the public. Which I think a lot of people would be. Yeah. Not a lot of people like sit in. front of microphones like we're doing. right now and like casually chat about. the men that they've slept with. Like. it's not that normal to a lot of people. Yeah. Um has. That was one of my only last questions. was like I remember I think you said on. Zoom. it's interesting. You had said, "Has the. relationship you had with Hef affected.

your male relationships past that moving. forward?" Like are men super insecure? Do they not care? Do they think it's. cool? Like what is their relationship to. that? Um some have been really insecure. Like some have just like raked me over. the coals for it and just wanted to like. ask a million questions about the sex. and every little detail. And at that. point, this was like before I wrote my. book. So I hadn't even like gone back. and processed it myself at all. So it. was like traumatic for me to relive it. through them like being angry and. attacking me for it and attacking me for.

it as if it was something I had done. while I was in a relationship with them. So some guys are just super insecure and. can't deal. And I remember. lot of men. Yeah. And I remember that now. Like if. I'm in a relationship and I want to ask. my boyfriend about an ex, I always take. a step back and I'm like, "Okay, like. where am I being jealous and am I asking. him about some crazy person he doesn't. even want to remember?" Cuz I know what. it feels like on the other side. I know. what it feels like to be like attacked. from a jealous angle. It sucks. What is.

next for you? Like what are you just. enjoying being a mom? Like what are you. working on? Like what what's up? I am. enjoying being a mom. I have a couple TV. projects that are coming out later this. year, which I I'm the annoying guest. who's like, "I have a really exciting. project but I can't tell you anything. about it." I love it. But like secret. project coming up and you. Yeah, there's a couple there's a couple. cool things. They're both for TV and. it's just one one is really confidential. that I just participated in. It's not. like my thing. Another thing is more my. thing, but I have to wait for the. network to talk about it.

Okay, I want to see Holly Madison back. on TV. I want to go rewatch Girls Next. Door, then read the book again, then. listen to this episode again, and then. by that time hopefully whatever your. secret project is, I'm like giving you. beaming eyes. Um hopefully we can watch. you somewhere because you are not only. are you entertaining, but you are now at. a point where I think. I know so many women look up to you, Holly, and I am so fortunate to have you. sitting on this couch with me and having. this interview.

Thanks for having me. I was so excited. to do it. Thank you.