Taylor Momsen: The Grinch, Gossip Girl, & Grief (Full Episode)

[Music]. What is up, daddy gang? It is your. founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call. Her Daddy. Daddy. >> Taylor Momson, welcome to Caller Daddy. >> Hello. Thank you for having me. >> I am so excited to finally sit down with. you. I feel like you've been someone. that I've wanted to have on and it's. been a long time coming, so it feels. right that you're here. Thank you. >> How are you doing? >> I'm doing excellent. >> Are you in LA just for promo and. everything? promo and Rock and Roll Hall.

of Fame and it's a busy it's a busy. week. >> Okay. Wait, I read somewhere that you. are a night owl and you kind of go to. bed late. Were you up late last night? >> I tried to go to bed well I flew in I. actually flew in from Seattle yesterday. >> Okay. >> Um I feel like I haven't slept in at. least 3 weeks. So I'm kind of running on. fumes. I'm hitting that point. Um so I. tried to go to bed earlier which was. like midnight which was very early for. me. >> Okay. Is this just like all musicians. though? Because every single musician.

I've interviewed one wants a late start. and two it's like they don't they. literally like start their nights at. like 1:00 a.m. I think my brain doesn't. wake up until like 7. >> Okay. So 7 p.m. >> 7 p.m. So like anything before 7:00 I. can show up. I can do it. But it's my. brain just isn't at its highest. functioning quality until like 7:00. But. do you think that's because you're. playing shows and writing music and. you're most creative at night? >> I think definitely a part of it is the. routine of used to being up late because.

of touring and things. Um, so you get on. that schedule and then it's just hard to. switch a schedule. But I've always found. even when I was younger and I didn't. have that, if if I try to go to bed. early, >> I can't even if I fall asleep, I'm more. tired the next day than if I just stay. up and then sleep less. It's it's a. weird thing. But I definitely find. creative like my creative brain starts. to work at night. >> Okay. Well, I'm happy that you're awake. and you're here. This is fabulous. Um, okay. You are the lead singer of the. Pretty Reckless band. Can we talk though.

about that you have a Christmas EP that. just came out and I feel like just from. the vibes I'm like this is a departure. from what your band is usually doing. Did you have to convince everyone to do. this? And like was it primarily your. idea? >> It was my idea. Well, let me rephrase. that. It was actually it was the fans. idea. So this is something that it's. Taylor Mson's Pretty Reckless Christmas. And I'm doing the song from the Grinch.

Where are you Christmas? And that was. something that when I first formed the. Pretty Reckless when I was 14, every. year people put the connection together. that I was Cindy Lhoo and the Grinch. And every year it got more and more. exponential and more and more people, you know, put that together. And it was. always kind of a funny thing that, you. know, you smile at and you go, "Huh, that's cute." And every year they'd go. do a rock version of Where Are You. Christmas? And for I don't know 15. years, I went no way. Like in zero. worlds is this something I would ever. do.

Fast forward to it's co we've gone. through a lot of loss. Like it's a very. hard time in the Pretty Reckless world. and in my life. And there's nothing to. do cuz we're in lockdown. And so the. only thing to do is to rehearse with the. band cuz we're all cool to be together. And so we just spent a lot of time in. the rehearsal studio. The holidays were. coming up. We're starting to see these. comments again of do a rock version of. Where are you Christmas? And we kind of. all I kind of turned to everyone and. went, should we just try this? Like.

should we just see what happens here? And so we put together an arrangement. which was actually kind of tricky. because uh it's it's not really a full. song. It's a it's a minute long. And so. to make it a three and a half minute. song, whatever. We worked that out. We. go into the rehearsal space and we jam. through it once and I kid you not, Alex, by the end of the song these four. depressed, miserable people had giant. grins on our faces and we all kind of. looked at each other and went, "Was that. just great?" Like, I think that there.

was something magic that just happened. here. Are we doing this now? We're doing. this. So, that's where it started. And. then I decided in order to being me and. being very thorough with everything in. order to have it I needed it to have. context and I needed it to equate to me. now and you know all the things that. there's there's actually some substance. to the what I'm doing. >> So I wrote an entire original Christmas. record around it and of course you did. >> Of course I did. And so. >> but the fact that it came also from like. the fans relentlessly being like come on.

like bring our girl Cindy Lhoo back. Like come on. And I which I want to get. into today cuz I know there's a lot to. discuss in terms of like your early. career and I feel like I've had a lot of. conversations with. actresses who then go into different. roles in their career of just like. >> making a pivot as a woman is so. difficult. And so sometimes you have to. abandon who you were known for and. really really almost like kind of turn. your back on that to be taken seriously.

in another department. the fact that you are now sitting here. and like even like being able to like. smile and say Cindy Lhoo with a smile in. an interview like I'm sure if I. interviewed you maybe 10 years ago, you. would be like I don't even want to talk. about that. >> Yeah, there's definitely an element of. that. So there's growth. >> Oh, there's tons of growth. And I think. also, you know, I'd be remiss to not. mention the loss that we went through. and the it was a hard time for me. And I. think coming out of that grief and. getting to the other side of it, it it. forced me to kind of reflect on my life.

in a lot of ways. And Grinch, like I. went back to the very beginning. And. Grinch to me was always great. Like I. don't have any bad memories with Grinch. Everything about it was awesome. Like it. was super fun. I was super young, but. there was so many, it was such an. incredible project to be a part of that. was so upper echelon at such a young age. to see, you know, actors of that caliber. and of Jim Carrey and Molly Shannon, etc., etc., Ron Howard. And then it was. also my first experience in a recording.

studio. And so, you know, when I was. when the movie came out and stuff and I. was in school, like you're teased. relentlessly for it. You're Grinch girl. I moved around a lot. Like all of that. kind of stuff was hard for me as a kid. But when I got older and looking back on. it, I go, "No, all of those things that. happened and all of those experiences of. making this film was wonderful." And so. why am I shunning this and like I am. Cindy Lhoo. Like I am that girl. Like. I'm still that girl. >> I think we're a similar age. Are you 31?

32. Okay. I'm 31. And. I want to go back to the beginning cuz I. know you started your career so young, but even when we're going to talk about. the Grinch, I was thinking about that. where I read that you had been bullied. for this role. And I'm sitting there and. I'm like, >> what? Like what are you what? Like that. is the most like iconic, incredible. This movie has lived forever. I watch it. every single year. like you were. adorable and perfect and all the things, >> but then it's like, "Oh no, but you're. also just like a normal kid then going.

to school and kids are [ __ ]. assholes." Whether it was or jealousy or. they actually just thought you were a. quote unquote freak. They're like, "You're the Grinch girl." And you're. like, "So at that age, it doesn't matter. that this is like this incredible movie. It matters what your peers are saying. And if they're saying you're not cool. for that, then you digest that to be. like, I'm not cool for this.". >> Oh, yeah. And I didn't grow up in a. Hollywood household or anything like I. was born in St. Louis. >> Okay, wait, take me back. You get into. the industry from what I understand. around like 2 years old.

>> Yeah. >> How do your parents even explain to you. like why they got you in so young? >> I was just talking about this the other. day and I think I need to have another. conversation with my parents cuz I don't. even fully know the story. I know they. put me into modeling. I was signed by. Ford modeling agency when I was two and. I was very chatty and. I don't know um a bunkular and they went. my modeling agency said does she have an. acting agent and my parents went no and.

they went okay well she should so go. over to this agency they sent me on my. first audition and I booked it that day. it was for Shake and Bake and I was. three so that it was a national. commercial and so that was kind of the. kicking off point where I think they. went oh we can do something with this. for real. And so that was that was the. start of it. >> So you start as a model? >> Started as a kid model. >> And do you have any like core memories. or no? You were just so young. >> Not really. Like I only remember the. photos cuz I've seen them, you know.

>> Okay. So then you get the Grinch at six. Five. >> That's also blurry. It's 56 somewhere in. there. >> Okay. 56. You star as Cindy Lhoo. Talk to me about like the audition. Do. you remember the audition at all? >> I remember pieces of the audition cuz it. was a really long process. That's why. the timeline's a little blurry. Um, so I. think I started auditioning for it when. I was five and it came out when I was. seven. So I had birthdays in between. there obviously.

But uh, the audition process was long. I. remember going in lots of rounds of it. And I remember the screen testing the. most because that's where it was down to. me and two other girls. and we got to. try on wigs and that's where they were. starting to kind of put together what. Cindy's going to look like. And so I. went from a neon pink wig to a green wig. to a yellow wig to this kind of outfit. to this kind of outfit. And that process. was really really fun for me as a kid. Um cuz you get to play dress up and it's. awesome. Um, and so it's it's pieces of.

it every it's hard starting so young. It's always hard to remember what you. remember and what you remember because. people have told you the stories and. you've turned them into memories. Also, I can watch my entire life. So, it's how. much do you remember? How much are you. watching it and remembering from that, you know? >> Yeah. Because it's like similar, very. different, but similar. Just for a kid. in your childhood, you get told things. by your parents and then you're like, "Oh, cool.".

to do these try on these wigs, but do. you remember any part of you in any. capacity being like intimidated by being. a part of something so big or you didn't. even understand? >> I didn't understand that and I I I never. remember being nervous or anything like. that. It was uh it was fun. It was like. that's what I'm saying like Grinch is. like is so positive for me like that my. memories of that are so awesome.

>> Okay. You had to go to who school? Sorry, just indulge me cuz like we're. getting close to the holiday school. Talking about fun school was amazing. >> Do you remember like the wildest things. that you got to be a part of during that. time? Well, the entire WHO school was I. think it was like seven months long of. all the people and all the acrobats. training to to learn to act and and. create this world that Ron saw in his. head of this whimsical over-the-top. Whoville. Um, so they had so walking.

into that it was a big uh you know like. what are they called? like hangers, the. big sets on Universal Lot, >> and it was just empty, but they had. giant, you know, >> life-sized balls that acrobats are. walking on and people doing back flips. And so, you walked into this world and. you're just going, "What is this kid. playground?" And I I did all my own. stunts. So, I had to learn how to I did. stunt training. >> Okay. Wait, but you didn't have to do. the prosthetics, right? >> I didn't have to do the prosthetics.

They Rick Baker molded my face and after. he casted me and stuff, I think everyone. just kind of collectively decided that. that's too much to put a kid through um. to have to go into prosthetics every. day. So, they wrote it into the script. that I haven't grown into my nose yet. >> No, honestly adorable. I also was. thinking about that cuz I think I saw an. article somewhere where it was like Jim. Carrey would sit in like 8 and 1/2 hours. >> of prosthetics. >> prosthetics and it killed him. Like he. From what I remember, it was brutal on.

him. He went I think he. >> he feel free, Jim, feel free to tell me. if I'm wrong, but if I remember. correctly, I think he went through. actual torture training, >> like with a real Navy Seal guy to learn. how to deal with it because it he's he's. so covered. I mean, the suit the and the. contacts. I remember there was a time. when. >> cuz we had all that fake snow coming. down and snow got underneath his contact. and it, you know, killed him like so. painful. No, no, no. I I genuinely can't.

imagine, but then obviously like he. brought it to life in such a beautiful. way. Do you remember just like what it. was like having him as your co-star? Cuz. he's obviously so [ __ ] talented. It's. like crazy. >> Insane to see that level of of talent at. such a young age, I think really had a. big impact on me. >> Um, just to see someone who takes their. craft that seriously. And I get asked a. lot if he scared me, you know, because. everyone I think a lot of kids were. scared of the Grinch. He's never scary. to me. To me, he was always Jim and he.

was always in makeup. Um, he was very. protective of me. He was very kind, super funny, super animated, like. absolutely awesome. But the funny thing. is I never knew what Jim Carrey looked. like because I never saw him cuz he was. there way early doing the prosthetics. >> Oh my god. So you're like. >> Jim Carrey is the Grinch. >> Jim Carrey is the Grinch. So, I didn't. know who Jim was until the premiere and. someone had to point him out to me and. go, "That's Jim." And I went, "Oh, Jim.". >> That's such a mind [ __ ] You're like,

"Wait a second. I know the voice, but. you're Oh, wow." Okay, so. >> we're talking about this like beautiful. moment in your life. >> and then like you referenced earlier, then you go back to school. So, you're. like experiencing the most incredible. like kids would dream of this and you're. on these sets and you're doing all the. and then you go back to school and are. you living in St. Louis? >> Living in St. Louis. Um, my dad works. there and I was going to Catholic school. >> and Oh, yeah. That's a whole thing. >> Oh. Oh, how'd that go?

>> Oh, wonderful. Don't you know? Weren't. the nuns awesome? >> They were so loving and understanding. >> And understanding. I loved when I got. really tall and my skirt got too short. and I got punished for it. That was. super fun. >> Stop. They're like literally measuring. to the knee. >> Did you have to do it? Did you do the. kneel? Yes. >> Where they make you kneel and measure. from your hip down? >> Taylor, I like black it out because I. was like, "No, please don't make me.". And I agree with you. Some girls got. away if they were shorter with like the. skirts could be a little shorter, but if. you were tall. >> and I just outgrew it. It's not my.

fault. I went through a growth spurt, but nope, you're in trouble. >> Okay. So, you're going through all this. Talk to me though about being a kid and. like did you have friends? Were you able. to make friends? I I always I've always. had like a couple close friends in every. stage of my life. Um, one or two. But. making I was. I' I've gone through so many phases of. myself. Like I think the the weirdest. thing that people probably don't know. about me is that I'm actually really shy.

and no one guesses that. And so I have. this external version of myself that is. the performer and the professional and. the all of that. But that's where like. songwriting became really important to. me because that's where I felt like I. could be me. And I started writing when. I was really little. So like around. Grinch, like five. But I think that. makes sense because now being more. involved in the industry, like I think a. lot of actors, not everyone, like goes.

through these weird moments where it's. like I'm reading the lines that someone. else wrote. I'm doing what the director. is telling me to do. And so like. >> there there's not a lot of autonomy that. you've got going on in these situations. So like to have something as an outlet. that like you can genuinely have for. yourself. I think a lot of actors try to. find that for themselves because we as. consumers think that these actors are. >> like they somehow maybe wrote the lines. or they did these things and then a lot. of actors are like no I'm like just. doing what everyone's telling me to do.

>> And that from a young age of like you're. starting so young of reading these lines. being these characters everyone knows. you as these characters. Who is Taylor as a human being outside. of that? >> Well, I think I always had a really. strong sense of self. I always knew. that. And you know, that's why Grinch is. weird, but once you get into te Grinch. is specific and then once you get into. teenage years with Gossip Girl and. things, that's where I think my identity. crisis started to come into play where.

because that was a whole different. world. Grinch is a film that came out. that it clearly lives in an imagin in an. imagination yes world. >> Um, you know, I don't walk out of my. house and have a Cindy Lhu wig on. So, it's so there was a there was a clear. line there for me, I think, where this. is playing dress up and this is Taylor. And when it got into Gossip Girl and. suddenly that was a celebrity. show and a tabloid show and New York and.

Paparazzi and suddenly you're being. photographed as a character by Paparazzi. and put into the tabloids as Taylor and. it's going I'm going that's not what I. was wearing. That's not me. That's a. character. And I'm getting hate from. things I did on the show that I have. nothing to do with. And so I think and I. was young. I was 14. And so I think that. that. that started to bother me and that's. where I started to realize like I'm not. good at being someone else's tool. Like.

I need to be my own. >> person. Taylor, you saying 14. >> 14 13 14 that's like right when people. are going into high school. And even if. you're not an actress, we're all [ __ ]. in the head at that point cuz we're like. who am I? And some people are going. through puberty faster than others. and. some people have, you know, are figuring. out their sexual identity and some. people feel and you're just like, "What? Who am I? I am a disaster." So, to also. be doing it on the world stage and. playing a character that can somewhat.

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So, you're living in St. Louis. You get. more jobs and then you get Gossip Girl. at 13 years old. >> Well, we were missing a move. So, I. lived in St. Louis till I was 10 and. then my dad switched jobs and we moved. to Maryland. So, now I'm in middle. school in Maryland and I have. just started my first band. Um, like an. actual garage band with kids from my. school. I finally found my little click, which was kind of the first time in my. life I felt that and it was exciting to. me. And I was still the weird art kid.

who, you know, wore combat boots and. leather jackets to school. And and this. was PTOIC, Maryland, so this is very. preppy and. >> love, you know, all the girls had bows. in their hair and Uggs and matching. Juicy Couture sweatuits. And so I was. very always just off in schools. So I. found my, you know, found my crowd, found the art crowd, started my first. band, and was doing really well. like I. was I was well adjusted to this to this. school and this group of friends. And. that's when Gossip Girl came around. And.

that's when my I said they go, "You're. going to move to New York. You're going. to audition for this and you would have. to move to New York for it." No, no, no. I don't want to do this anymore. I love. what I'm I love where I'm at. And 12 at. the time. and my agent, my manager, they. all flew to my house to convince me to. audition for this going, "This is going. to be a great opportunity and you'll get. to move to New York and it's fashion. based. You love fashion and you love New.

York and blah blah blah." So, long story. short, ended up going to New York to. audition for it. >> Where are your parents at this point? >> Oh, they're there. They're encouraging. the I mean they're encouraging this. choice and I don't think it was with any. kind of malice or anything like that. I. think they're just looking at going this. is a huge opportunity and just because. you're having a good time in school. right now doesn't mean you pass up on. something that's this massive. Did you. at all cuz I know I've talked to K child. actors that like there is like an.

obvious. the financial pressure of just like. you're a working child and I know it's. like an awkward topic so like share what. you're comfortable but like was that a. factor at all in this decision? um. it wasn't spoken about to me, you know, and I'm still not even a teenager yet. So the I never realized I was making. money, let's put it that way. So that kind of. if this was always this is fun and you.

like this and there was an element of, you know, you do well, you get praise. You don't do well, you don't. And so it. it's a it's it's a lot to unpack. I. think probably as a as an adult looking. back on it. And I think a lot of my life. now I spend not really thinking about it. and going cuz I'm I'm one that very much. does not live with regret or wishing I. could change things or whatever. That's.

just not my vibe. >> Um cuz I think it's kind of pointless. So, so I'm very like I'm always looking. forward and I reflect on things in order. to write about them and process them and. that kind of stuff. But the. >> it is what it is at this point. You know. what I mean? Again, I think like it's. there is a um. natural like empathy that I think like. the world now just has for child actors. because I think of just like the honest.

truth that just has come out for a lot. of these people that like went through. this. And like when you did get into. Gossip Girl, did you. >> then understand that you were making. money or like at what point do you think. you were like wait you guys I this is. also like mine? It was Gossip Girl and. it was well I I left I moved out really. young. Um so it was around that time. that I started to realize like suddenly. I was becoming in charge of my own. finances and and that kind of stuff. And.

so that's when I kind of put everything. together. But uh it was it was Gossip. Girl that made Gossip Girl is a weird. one because like in one way it was, you. know, it was awesome. Um and in the. other way, I. really didn't want to be there. So it. was this it was this it was me starting. to come into my own as a person and. having this tug. It's where music is the. thing because I was starting to do that. I was always writing songs. I was always.

doing these things behind the scenes, but now to be so universally famous for. something that isn't me was really. challenging for me. And so I felt like I. immediately became very defensive. I was. defensive in interviews. I was very also. young so arrogant and kind of an [ __ ]. and you know in front of everyone. >> but figuring it out in front of everyone. and being judged you know very harshly. for it. Um while trying to push back. against that going I don't want this. I. want this over here and I don't know how.

to get to this place. >> It's almost like you couldn't stop it. once the train started moving. And as we. know how big Gossip Girl got it. >> No one expected that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Take me to your agents decide, okay, you got to do this. You eventually. say yes. You go to New York. You read. for the part. Like what was your first. impression of Jenny Humphrey? >> Well, I mean, I kind of related to the. character. I never really auditioned for. things that I didn't understand. And.

feeling like an outcast in a, you know, in a world that you don't fit in was. kind of that's who I was. It wasn't. I wasn't from Brooklyn and you know, all. that stuff, but it was as a general. concept of a character. I I identified. with her. I feel like now I was about to. say this I'm like oh this was kind of a. theme lately in the Grinch for you too. but like you're 14 on set and everyone. else is like bare minimum mid20s like. you are beyond the youngest person. really on this set. How did that dynamic.

impact you? >> Well I grew up real fast let's put it. that way. Um but no I mean everyone was. cool. It was I still Connor um who. played Eric. >> he's still one of my best friends. Love. that guy. Well, that's nice cuz you also. had like a lot of scenes with him. >> A lot of scenes with him. And he kind of. when I first moved to New York, he took. me under his wing. I actually ended up. going to his high school. And so he. introduced me to his friend group and. you know that kind of whole world which. was only about a year. I ended up. graduating early cuz it freshman and.

trying to go to a it had to be a. performing arts high school cuz that's. the only way that I could leave and work. and they would give you your work to to. leave. And I was really adamant about. not wanting to be homeschooled because I. wanted to make friends. Um, but the. reality is the work schedule was too. much and I wasn't going there anyway. So. I ended up leaving that homeschooling. and then graduating at 16. But. >> so you're 16. >> 15. You're living in New York City. You're no longer going to high school. What are you doing when you're not.

filming? >> Um, I was working in the studio. I was. writing and working in the studio and. then getting into trouble, you know, but. typical trouble. >> Typical as like you would do in New York. City as a young girl that's just like I. I have all of this and no one's going to. tell me no. >> And all my friends were older and I. never once got IDed. So it was that's. also par with celebrity, you know, suddenly all those kinds all those kinds. of doors are just open to you and it's. fine. Did you go out with the cast at.

all or no? You had a separate. >> Um, I didn't go out with them too much, but I would hang out at their apartments. and stuff. Like Chase and Ed lived. together at the time. And. >> when I had Chase on and he told me about. the rooftop parties, I was parties. Okay. So, you frequented the roof. >> Oh, yeah. We lived like two blocks from. each other. So, >> Oh, you were having time of your life. >> Oh, yeah. So, I would spend a lot of. time at their apartment and it was very. boys club, which was very fitting to me. Yeah, I've always fit in with boys clubs. and. >> I remember he came on. What was it? He. was like, "Oh, I remember one time we.

had the party and like Lindsay Lohan. showed up and we were like, act cool, act cool. This is cool. This is cool. This is cool." Okay. So, you were there. >> Oh, yeah. >> So, this is that's like the although. still you're young, but that's kind of. the fun side of like, okay, you're. getting to become an adult. You're doing. it in a pretty fast-paced way. But when. I did interview Chase and Penn, and this. is kind of what you had lightly alluded. to and lightly talked about um earlier. in this interview is the sudden and. intense fame and the explosion of the.

show that no one could have anticipated. >> Just talk to me about it like from like. when it first starts like how does it. impact you off the bat? Well, I mean, the first the first impact is the. paparazzi, and that's something that I. hadn't dealt with before. And in New. York, there's no escaping it. Um, at. least at that time. Now, I still live in. New York, and now I know now there's. like kind of rules to it, but you know. where to go, you know, where not to go, and you know, you know, if you're in. Soho, be prepared to be photographed. It's fair game. >> Yes. >> Um, but they were coming to my house.

They were going to my sister's school. They were, they were everywhere. And. that kind of that feeling of kind of. being watched and stalked is just it's. intimidating is I guess the it's it's. unnerving. And there's also like no one. that has the right answer of what to do. other than like just deal with it. >> Just deal with it. >> And all of your castmates were going. through it, but again, you were at such. a young age that I can only imagine. you're like trying to grow up and handle.

it. But also like did your parents move. to the city? Um, my mom and me and my. sister did and my dad was still working. in Maryland. >> Okay. Was there ever a time that you can. like recall a memory of like when you. were like, "No, no, no. This is like. really getting too much.". >> I think the reality is I handled it. really well. Um, I think I'm pretty. thick skinned at the end of the day. I've I've lived a very strange life and. I've learned to kind of let things roll. off my back. But there was it was less.

the paparazzi in person that went this. is too much and more what would come out. afterwards from the photos and that that. would turn and that really started once. I started the band like the negative. press where there was this kind of. hatred of what I was doing from the. world and people being like here's okay. here's an example I'm on stage I'm 16. I'm playing a show I'm wearing a little. dress I have underwear on but But a. photographer goes and shoots up my.

skirt. He kneels down, shoots up my. dress, and my tampon string had slipped. out. And so my tampon string was. sticking out of my underwear. Perez. Hilton puts that on the homepage of. Perez Hilton. You can see like the side. of my [ __ ] and everything. Like it's. like a very It's still on the internet. Have fun looking it up. But it's a I'm. underage and the the violation and it's. and his headline I don't remember what. it said but the headline was very. negative of like [ __ ] like look what. like look how trashy Taylor is kind of.

thing. and that kind of concept like is so. invasive and I laugh about it now and I. laughed about it probably a week later. because there's nothing you can do about. it but that's the kind of press that. we're talking about where people were. very or I was in a taxi cab and. paparazzi jumped in the cab with me and. it's blinding lights and I go like this. to cover my face and my assistant and. friend at the time covers my face and. it's on the homepage of whatever tabloid.

site going Taylor Mosson [ __ ] up. leaving club because my eyes are kind of. rolling back from the they pick the one. shot that looks bad and try to spin some. kind of negative story around it. So I. was getting a lot of negative press. looking back I probably should have. hired a publicist but I didn't know. better. a publicist or a therapist or a. bodyguard or Jesus [ __ ] There's no. right answer though, >> dude. >> I Okay, you saying though that you're. like I would probably laugh about it a. week later. Did you ever have breakdowns.

over this kind of invasion of privacy. and absolute like exploitation? Um, probably internally. I never showed. them. And again, that's that's where. songwriting came into play. Like that's. where the first album everything turns. around here. Like I don't because I. don't it's not all negative. It's it's. more that I I learned to take the hard. things in my life from any aspect of it, you know, big or small and turn it into. music. And that's how I've coped with.

life. Like music is my therapy. And it. was finding the right finding the right. partners musically for me was. everything. And so when I did it changed. my life and I suddenly then had a. support system in my band and in KO or. producer who supported me for me and. what I wanted to do and my vision and. and they had no ulterior motive or like. there was nothing from the outside. It. was just pure support of like you do.

what you want to do and that was huge. I. can't imagine like what you're saying of. like that young girl in Maryland loving. more than anything making music and. being like I'm really good at this and. I'm like finding I'm finding my voice. and all of that then kind of getting. thrust into this spotlight like you said. through a career that you actually. weren't really that passionate about or. excited about. >> No. And I was coming to that's the thing. like when I was little I liked it like I.

didn't but I didn't know better. That. was just I started at two so it was. something I just always did. So there. was no choice in the matter. It wasn't. forced upon me. I wasn't like you know. going I throwing tantrums going I don't. want to do this and my parents going you. have to. It wasn't that. But I wasn't. making my own decisions. I didn't I. wasn't seeing past it. And when I hit. 12, 13, 14 with Gossip Girl and this. whole other world is thrown on you that. you didn't ask for like fame. Fame is.

this thing that you got to kick over. your shoulder and it's something you. deal with that comes with it. But when. you're not prepared for it, which I. don't think anyone ever is, >> but when it's something that I'm just. going to work and doing what I've always. done, and now suddenly there's this. whole other aspect to it that you have. to learn to navigate again. And the. difference between like being a woman. and a man in this industry is like. astronomically different because. >> it really is. the photo that you just. described being on the front page of.

someone's website that is like so that. like is should literally be illegal of. how they're violating your body. especially not even especially. >> also child porn so I don't know how. that's still like. >> you're underage underage or not. >> complete violation um I was looking up. and I just started to see like a lot of. the tabloids also that they were. referring to sometimes as this wild. child or this party girl and you're. giving a little bit of this behind the. scenes of like No, that's literally just. like a picture that you're in my [ __ ]. cab violating me.

>> You're in my cab. First of all, I was never really a wild. child. I had I was working all the time. Like I would go to set on Gossip Girl. cuz I started making the first record. while I was still on the show cuz I. formed the band at 14. So, I would go to. work at 4 in the morning on Gossip Girl, work till 6:00 at whatever time we. wrapped, go straight to the studio and. work in the studio from whatever that. time was till 2:00 a.m., come back, sleep for maybe an hour, and then do it. all again. So, I was working all the. time. So, this whole like wild child.

persona, it was just the makeup and my. fashion choices, which were a bit. outrageous, but very me. Like, I was. just being authentic. And so I think um. some of that was curated and also I was. my im is my image my image was a little. out there and I was very. I mean now I call it pretentious. I look. back on it and I go it's like cringey. how pretentious some of the things I.

would say was and how I'd speak and. carry myself. Um but that's who I was at. the time. And I and I think that some of. that pretention came across extra. because I was being defensive because I. was I felt like I constantly had to. defend who I was as a person every time. someone asked me a question instead of. just answering it kind of honestly, you. know. Yes. I I think there was like. again you're so young there's like a. level of like. internally you were trying to protect.

yourself and so like I get. >> I was fighting. I was more fighting. going, "This is me. You're getting it. wrong." So, I felt like I really had to. fight to explain who I was. When now as. an adult, you just be who you are and. relax into it. Yes. But I also think I. was thinking about this is like I've now. interviewed a good amount of people who. have been a part of a franchise that was. allconsuming and the fandom level is.

just like you you will you'll never be. able to describe it right like and there. and it's once in sometimes generations. like there's these very specific shows. that just take the world by storm and I. think the fandom we are watching these. romanticized shows that are very curated. and there's directors and there's writer. rooms and these are really good [ __ ]. shows. >> But then we are blurring the lines. between Jenny Humphrey is not Taylor.

Mson and Taylor Momson is not Jenny. Humphrey, but people don't give a [ __ ]. and so they want you to be. >> Jenny Humphrey. And you're like guys, >> yes, >> I'm literally I am from St. Louis. >> I'm not from Brooklyn. And so can you. talk to me a little bit about like. having this hard time between separating. yourself from Jenny Humphrey and Taylor. and like how the [ __ ] did you mentally. do that? >> Well, I quit. >> Yeah, that's.

>> Oh, yeah. We're getting there. Like I. [ __ ] I left. >> I left. I went I can't do this. Um it's. it was a struggle there for for years, but I I what I did was I I treated it. very much like a job, a professional. I. showed up. I did my job and then I went. to the studio. >> Did you resent her though? Like the. character? >> I resented the. >> I didn't resent I don't know how to. explain this. I when I left the show and. I was no longer on it and I was just. touring with the band and just putting.

out music and I quit everything else and. that's all I was doing. And every. question in every interview was still. about Gossip Girl and Jenny Humphrey and. will you ever go back to acting and blah. blah blah and the list of questions on. and on and on. The first year you get. it. The second year you kind of laugh at. it. By like as it kept going, I was. going, "Oh, I'm never going to outlive. this character." And that's a that's a. weird thing to come to grips with. So. you just kind of I ignored it and you.

live your life. And I feel like from. what we're talking about is like you're. going to the studio, you're recording. after Gossip Girl, but then like you said, people really. didn't want to hear about you as a. musician cuz they're like, "Well, they. didn't take it seriously, which in their. defense, I wouldn't have either.". >> Okay. Talk about that. If I was, if you. brought to me a a 14-year-old fronted. rock band with a chick who was on a soap. opera, I would roll my eyes at it and.

go, "Yeah, I don't give two [ __ ] about. whatever you're trying to show me right. now.". >> Fair. >> So, of course they did. Like, >> cuz I picked the hardest path. I I. didn't I I trying to gain credibility in. a world that is impossible to gain. credibility coming from the. circumstances that I came from. A rock. and roll hard as hell. B a woman in rock. and roll hard as hell. And then three. teenage soap star.

>> wants to be taken ser. So it was just I. had everything stacked against me. >> right. >> in that way. But and so there was a lot. of this is fake and she's a poser and. this is who so and so writes her songs. and blah blah blah. None of which was. true. I write everything myself. I. co-produce the records. Like it is there. is no there's no one but me and the band. involved in what we do. And it's it's. it's incredibly personal and it's incred.

and I take it incredibly seriously. And. I realized very quickly that the only. way to overcome that kind of hate or. whatever is to a shut it out. >> and just do it. >> Keep going. >> Well, you just do it. You keep going. You to We tooured the world. relentlessly. I kept writing songs. We. kept putting out records. You and you. have to do it the old school way. >> You're like, I'm not I'm not going. anywhere. Consistency. Just keep hi. Here we go again. Another song. >> I can't because you can't keep. explaining yourself. There's no point in.

explaining yourself. So, I got tired of. that and gave up on it. And then that's. when things actually started to get. easier is when I stopped being so. defensive and just was. >> Well, isn't that [ __ ] beautiful? But. it sounds it sounds so straightforward, but it's so [ __ ] hard. Oh, yeah. >> And again, because we're talking like. just reminding everyone again, 14, 15, 16 years old. Like most people are. having like their [ __ ] sweet 16s in. Alabama and being like, "Mom, can I get. a padded bra?" and you're trying to.

pivot as a young woman in an industry. where most of the time we are only. accepted as one thing and it's like good. luck. Okay, we're get now we're going to. get there cuz now I want to finish off. with you said [ __ ] I [ __ ] quit like. let's talk about it. How did you when. how early on did you actually know I. want to get the [ __ ] out of here? >> It's definitely When did I actually. leave? Was it season 3? I never watched. the show so my timeline's always messed. up. >> Okay, so you leave. season four. season. >> So, season one's a whirlwind. It was.

probably around season two cuz whenever. I started the band, like when I met. >> I met Ben and Ko. Um, and. it changed everything. >> Everything. Did you talk to them though. about being on this show being like, "Guys, I got to get out of here.". >> Oh, yeah. >> You're like, "Guys, I'm in jail. Get me. out.". >> I I I knew I had to leave. But at the. same time, leaving a career that is so. prosperous and. was not easy.

>> Yeah. >> Um, it was an easy decision for me. Not. not sorry, I shouldn't say not easy. Not. easy. Not easy in the way of like to. actually get out of a contract was not. easy. >> Okay. Talk to me. What happened? >> This was this was hard. So, it was it. started with a I don't want to do this. anymore, but you're in a lock and key. contract with CW, Warner Brothers, you. know, all of that stuff. And it came. down to it was a very long battle of me. arguing everyone and go and get me out.

of this. I can't do this anymore. This. is killing me. Like, I I have something. else I want to do with my life and it. has nothing to do with this and I I. can't be stuck here anymore. Um, and you. know, you're called ungrateful and. you're call like all you know, all the. things that come along with how dare you. turn your back on something that's been. so successful for you. was hard. But it came. >> How do you feel about that though when. people say that? >> Oh, I just went [ __ ] you. You don't know. what you're talking like you're not in. my shoes so how dare you judge this.

That's so I was very very defensive. Um, but it came down to they wouldn't let me. out of the contract. The head of Warner. Brothers said, "Fuck Taylor Mson. No. [ __ ] way. I go to the writers and. Stephanie Savage and Josh Schwarz, who I. love, like genuinely love." And. explained the situation. There's, you. know, lots of talks about it, but they. essentially went, "Well, we can't let. you out of the contract because that's. not our job, but we can write you out of.

the show. We understand what you want. what you're trying to do here. you're. not going to be able to act because. you're under contract. So, you can't go. take another job and join some other TV. show or some other movie. And I'm like, that's perfectly fine. I'm trying to get. out. Like, it's not what I want to do. anyway. It's good. Um, so I really have. to credit them for doing that for me cuz. they did not have to and they they wrote. me out of the show so I could go on tour. and be in a band. How did you share this.

with castmates? Were you close with. anyone enough to share it or just kind. of say peace out? >> Not really. I kind of just Irish dipped. I just I wasn't in the script the next. week. Um. >> they're like, "Where's Taylor?". >> I mean, they all knew I was making. music. They all knew I had a band. Like. I would play them stuff and because I. was working on the first record while I. was on the show, so I would come in and. play songs and play music and. >> you know that kind of stuff. But I don't. think anyone knew how serious I was at. that stage. >> Do you remember your last day on set? Were you like counting down the hours?

>> I remember the Well, the LA I actually. do now that you bring it up. My last. scene was in the. I think it might be the LA I never again. I've never watched the show, but I think. it might be the last scene you see Jenny. in. And so I think it's me like on the. train going to live with my mom or. whatever the write out story was. And. I'm like leaning on the window. And I. think that was the that was the rap. scene which is very fitting. Um, and then I came back for the very.

finale because just to as as a fan of. television and a fan of the shows I love. like when you have the full cast. together again for like you want to full. circle that and round it out. So, you. mentioned, which I do think is a great. point, that like you walked away from a. pretty stable job. to create this, you know, full career. out of this band that making it in the. music industry is not easy as we've kind. of talked about. Um, was your family.

supportive of this decision? >> Um, yeah. I mean, I don't think they at this. point, I was so strongheaded and. bulldozing my way into what I wanted in. my life that I don't think anyone could. have stopped me. How about not think I. no one could have stopped me and yes, some people tried. So, I think there was a a level of they. had to accept that this is what I was. doing and either get on board or get.

out. um the dichotomy of this actress to. then this musician and you talked about. it a little bit of like people not. taking it seriously in the very. beginning. How did that affect though. just how you felt about your art? Cuz. what you've been talking about this. whole interview is like how to the core. >> passionate you are about making music. and a lot of it you say in the beginning. was just like sometimes people weren't. even hearing my music. This has been. some from a very young age I've been.

writing. So, at the beginning of your. life, it's been really just for you as. this outlet, but then as you're now. trying to make a career out of it and. people are still like, "Oh, [ __ ]. Jenny Humphre trying to start a [ __ ]. band." Like, how the [ __ ] did you. >> It was just like that, too. That's. exact. That's like and quoted by Alex. >> Bennett Bucky Humphre trying to start a. [ __ ] band. >> How [ __ ] annoying. And how did you I. know you said you kind of put your head. down, but like were there moments where. you were like, I'm never going to shake. this.

>> Oh, yeah. There was definitely feelings. of that. >> Did you lean in any capacity like. persona wise heavily into certain. aspects to try to really detract from. the Jenny aura? >> Probably. Okay. >> Um, probably not so calculated. thing. you have to know about me. I really love. comedy. and I think everything's funny and. that's kind of how I get through life. I. laugh at everything. You got to be able. to make light of it or. >> it'll eat you. So,

>> um, so anything that I could like I. really enjoyed shocking people because I. thought it was funny. >> So, I was 16, 15, 16 and I was like, "Oh, I'm going to wear stripper shoes on. stage. I'm going to put X's on my tits. and flash them. I'm going to wear. outfits from Hustler and be as. outrageously like pornographic Lolita. over the top because it freaks people. out and it's super funny. Loved it. And.

so that became a part, but that's also. who I was. Like I enjoyed that. It. wasn't it wasn't calculated of like if I. do this I'll get this reaction. Totally. >> That's how I dressed in my everyday. life. But once I started to see the. reaction, I went, "Well, let's just Oh, you don't like my dark eye makeup? Let's. make it a little darker. >> Oh, my really tall heels are bothering. you. Let's make them looseite and put. money in them." Like, you know, it was. that kind of So, I think that that was. definitely a fun, but I had fun with it. I feel like again some people don't deal.

with it on the world stage, but that is. relatable and like playing with your. image and as women like outfits and. makeup and everything to really like. self-express. And I love that you're. saying like I Yes, I of course. understood what it was doing, but I was. still enjoying myself. Oh yeah. >> Because half of it is like people can. have social commentary on this, but. guess what? you're now finally doing. what you truly [ __ ] love and that's. all that matters. >> And I was always my own stylist and my.

own everything. So like I went shopping. and I put those things together and some. of them were a little questionable when. you look back but like in general that's. that I was being the most authentic. version of myself at that time. >> So what is the story behind the name the. Pretty Reckless? >> Story behind the Pretty Reckless. Okay. So we formed the band. We now need a. band name, which turns out band name is. the hardest thing in the [ __ ] world. Yeah. To come up with, especially in the. internet age, every band name's taken or. trademarked. So, anything you think of.

Can't use that. Can't use that. Can't. use that. Um, KO came up with the. Reckless. And I went, I love it. Because. I knew I wanted it to be athe because of. the Beatles and I wanted it to be like. one word, not one of those long sentence. band names, like something simple and. whatever. So, he went the Reckless. Perfect. That's the name. We go to. trademark it. There's an issue. There's. some band from the 70s called the. reckless. We can't get it. And my lawyer. goes, "Well, just add a word like add. any word and people will abbreviate it.".

You know, like Led Zeppelin. People call. it Zeppelin. And she goes, "And once. people abbreviate it, you'll have uh you. know the trademark, it'll become. whatever the loophole is that then now. you can trademark that also." And so we. went, "Okay, what's the pretty reckless? It's better than moderately reckless.". Like, yes, sounds good. Didn't really. think of it much and then didn't notice. that everyone or didn't think ahead that. everyone would abbreviate it to TBR, >> not The Reckless.

>> And hence the Pretty Reckless was born. Um, but it but I I love it now. Like at. the end of the day, the music makes the. band name, not the other way around. So, no, I'm I'm fully the pretty like I am. the pretty rack at this point. So, it's. good. >> Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Uber. Eats. Okay, Daddy Gang. We all know Uber. Eats has the best selection of local. restaurants, but did you know they also. eat when it comes to a whole range of. delivery services? Now, that might be a.

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your favorite bands. >> Yeah. >> Sound Garden. And can you just talk to. me about. how you were offered that opportunity. and like what it meant to you at that. time in your career? >> I have pillars of musicians that I look. up to and or tears of musicians. And. when we first formed the Pretty. Reckless, my two pillars are the Beatles. and Sound Garden, hands down. And you know, they're my. north stars. And they were for Ben & Ko.

also. And that was one of the first. So. we formed the Pretty Reckless over the. love of those two bands and and AC/DC. and Pink Floyd and the Doors and you. know, the list goes on and on. But Pink. but Sound Garden and the Beatles. So to. get the call, first of all, Sound Grind's been broken. up forever. And so when their new record. came out, they got back together, I. about died of excitement and happiness. And then to go forward and have get the.

call that they are asking us to open for. them was surreal and so validating and. so exciting. And I cannot picture a like. a moment in my life where I was more. happy than that moment. Like that was. the coolest thing to ever happen to me. I was floored. I could not believe it. And it was and it was fantastic. Like. and this is obviously going somewhere. sad, but it was the greatest experience.

And everything about it was phenomenal. The I mean they're incredible. Meeting. them was incredible. getting to know. them and you always hear like, you know, don't meet your heroes and like so. there's a there was a I had a bit of. nervousness around that of like what if. they aren't this thing I've built up in. my head. Oh no, they're exactly what I'd. built up in my head. They're kind. They're awesome. Their musicality is off. the charts. It's ridiculous. Like their.

records speak to me on a level that no. other band does. And it's like I feel. like like I feel like I knew them before. I met them because I and I think a lot. of people with their favorite bands feel. that way like they know they're it feels. like a family member. It's something. that I've been listening to forever as a. part of you. And so to have that become. a reality was just a insane. insane experience. Not to mention. they're like it's kind of as credible as.

it can possibly get. And so to come from. what everything we just talked about and. now be offered this tour, the acceptance. that I felt from the rock community and. from and like them putting their stamp. of approval on me and the band was just. massive. Like they it came with so many. layers of exciting weight um to get that. call. It was just the greatest thing. ever. And I've got to [ __ ] I [ __ ]. love them, Alex. I love them so [ __ ]. much. It's it's again it's like I think. anyone that is in the world of art like.

there there are like you just said the. pillars which you look up to whether. it's you're a director and you look up. to some of the most iconic directors. that you have in your brain that inspire. and influence you in so many ways like. you wouldn't be. >> the Pretty Reckless in the exact way you. are had you not had that influence from. them. So it's like the passion that you. have is understandable because it's had. such an impact on you. And then obviously the.

>> Yeah. And then tragic. It leads to it. leads to tragedy. Um. >> can you talk to me about. the lead singer passes away during that. tour? >> Yeah. Um well it was the last night of. tour and we played the last show in. Detroit and we all said bye. Do this again sometime, you know. See. you on the road. We all got on our tour. buses, went to bed, and I was woken up.

the next morning really early because. the news had been passed around the. camp. And I was dead asleep. And uh. first of all, I'm not, as we've talked. about, I'm not a morning person. So, I. think the like my brain takes a while to. wake up. So hearing the news that. someone I just spoke to and hugged and. talked to a couple hours ago is no. longer here, I couldn't process it at first. Like I I. was I it was confused. I was going,

"What are you saying to me right now?". And that turned into sinking in which. turned into the biggest pit in my. stomach of devastation and. the just the worst feeling in the world. of like I I mean I fell the [ __ ] apart. I like fell on the ground. Um and and. that was kind of the start of my what we. can call my dark period. Um it was just it was so shocking and so.

like everything about that experience. for me was so traumatic. um that I still get shaky talking about. it. Like it's it's something I I try not. to think about too much. But that. it's brutal. was brutal. >> beyond like words because you're like. what we're talking about too is like. some of the highest highs of your life. >> and then immediately wrapped into the. lowest lows of your life. >> within like a 2hour period. >> and then about a year later one of your.

other best friends. >> passed away. >> Yeah. This Ko who I've spoken about. through Ko Gondala. He produced all our. records. He's my best friend in the. world. Um, you know, we're inseparable, like talk everyday kind of friend. And, uh, he was essentially the fifth member. of Pretty Reckless. He just didn't tour. with us. Um, and we lost him in a. motorcycle accident. And it was, as I've said before, that was the that. was the nail in the coffin for me. Like. I was on a after Chris, I was in the.

start of a downward spiral. And we. continued to tour. It quickly came to a. place that I like of realization that I. was not in a place to be public. Like I. needed some time with this. I I had to. disappear and go try to handle this. grief that was [ __ ] eating me. Um. and. the way that I've always dealt with hard. things in life is to write about them, as I've said, and to turn it into music.

And so I was finally starting to kind of. come to grips with Chris. Not well, like. I was definitely not doing well, but I. was going, "We got to get out of this. Let's get in the studio. Let's make some. music. Like, let's push forward and and. do what we've always done in hard. times." And as we booked the studio, and. as soon as that happened, I got the call. that Ko had passed away in a motorcycle. accident. And it. it floored me. So, it was kind of a it.

was a giant one-two punch and because. they were not that far apart from each. other and uh and I just went off the. rails like I didn't I didn't handle that. well to say the least. Like I got very. heavy into you substance abuse and this. cloud of depression that I couldn't. shake. And so something that I was. teetering with before really took on a. life of its own where I essentially gave. up. I gave up on life. I went everything. I love is dead. What's the [ __ ]. point?

When you were going through that period. in your life, were you. were you alone? Like, who did you have. around you to keep you getting up every. morning? >> I mean, it's the band. I mean, the band. is my family. Um, you know, Ben, Mark, and Jamie. But, but I I did a very good job of isolating. myself at that time period. Um, and you. know, they reach out, they check in,

they come over, we play, we, you know, whatever we did, but. I a lot of the time I just shut off my. phone, you know, like I I was kind of. unreachable. Um, and. that was very calculated. I was very. thought like I knew I wasn't in a good. place. And a there's like shame that. comes with that of you don't want to be. seen. And b I also knew that I.

had kind of given up. Like I had to like. like I had to make a very conscious. choice at a point where I was either. going to live or I was going to die. And. I had to either stop everything I was. doing and get my life together or this. was going to kill me. and. I luckily chose to move forward. Um, but. that was it was it was that serious, you. know, like it wasn't a I was in this. hole of blackness that I didn't know how.

to get out of. And I think the bigger. thing was that I was perfectly fine with. that. Like I was perfectly fine kind of. staying in that place and fading away. into nothing. And that was fine with me. Like, and so it was it took a long time. to get to the other side of that, >> right? >> Dude, grief is like so [ __ ]. terrifying cuz you sometimes it's just. easier to sink into it. >> So much easier.

>> cuz you're actually actively having to. climb out and then there's the guilt of. like, but they don't get to experience. life anymore. And so it's like your head. can go to really clearly, yes, dark. [ __ ] places. >> How did you begin to pull yourself out? And like yes, you had music, but like. well. >> it's it's it is though. Like it sounds. cliche. Even when I say it out loud, it. sounds like made up. But. >> the hard I mean one of the hardest. things though was was dealing with all. of this. Like music's been my solace.

It's always been the thing I can turn to. listening to records or whatever that. makes you feel better. And after Chris. and Ko, I didn't have that anymore. Everything I listened to made it worse. Like I couldn't listen to Sound Garden. anymore. Couldn't listen to the Beatles. because we listen to Beatles with K. Couldn't like couldn't listen to our own. music because I made it with Ko. Like. everything, every band had a memory. attached to it. Every song had a an. emotion that I couldn't handle. And so.

suddenly music was not in my life. anymore. And that was the scariest thing. for me because I suddenly this thing. that's my identity that has gotten me. through everything is no more along with. these people. So it was like it was. almost like three losses at the same. time. And. eventually I got to it time is the. answer but eventually I got to a place. where I could start listening to records. again. Not Sound Garden but I went where.

did this start? Like I tried to I very. calculatedly went where did I fall in. love with this like how do I find myself. again and so I started at the very. beginning which was the Beatles where. it's the first band I fell in love with. it's the reason I started writing songs. it's you know all the things started. there listened to every Beatles record. listened to the anthology listened to. over and over and over to find joy in it. again and then moved on from that in. kind of almost chronological order of. the bands that I fell in love with.

growing up to now eventually ending in. Sound Garden and I found a place where I. could listen to it and have it. bring me some kind of comfort again. Um, but also writing the record Death by. Rock and Roll. So, I made so having to get that out. that record kind of poured out of me in. a way that other records have not. Um, some songs have but not full complete. albums like that. And that record was so.

inspired and it wasn't for anyone and I. didn't have the intention of putting it. out. I didn't know if we'd record it. I. didn't know any of that because how are. we gonna make a record without KO? I. don't know. Um there's so many things to. overcome. But the writing of that record. was something that I had to do for me. and it it's almost like I didn't write. it. But I think by getting it out it. that was the first step of me starting. to be able to turn the corner. That's. really beautiful because I think.

it's so it's so isolating when you're. going through that like you just said. and to have to almost reintroduce. yourself to something you love so much. but that now is causing you so much pain. because because of the remembering of. what was connected to that is torture. almost. But you also have to always. remember in grief that like. >> most of these people would never want. you to leave the one thing that. connected you guys. And slowly the goal.

is to get back to it so you can feel. them through I'm sure the music and you. can feel them when you're making it. But. even the concept of making it in the. beginning is so [ __ ] hard. >> So hard. It seems impossible cuz at the. end of the day I try to say Ko's name. every day. I don't even try to. I just. still do. um because it keeps him keeps. him around, you know, >> keep doing it. Yeah. >> And so, but he's also he was such a big. part of my life that there's no way to. not talk about him. Um and he's still. such a big part of my life. And I think. that that's that's the key to loss and.

to is I learned that. while that pain never goes away and that. that feeling of, you know, missing them. and, you know, all the things that come. with with grief, the intensity does. So, it's it's kind of like when it happens, it's you're sliced down the middle. You're bleeding everywhere. Like it's. blood gushing. And as time passes, that. wound heals and you're left with a.

massive scar. And that scar, you know, you're not bleeding all over. the floor anymore, but now that's a part. of you. And so, I look at everyone I've. lost is like they're a scar I carry with. me every day. And I'm proud to have. those scars. I'm proud that they're a. part of my life and that I've loved them. that much to be able to feel the way I. feel. You know, I appreciate you sharing. that because I think I've lightly talked. about grief on the show, but I think. it's always so one, yes, subjective, but.

when you put it like that, I think it. can just help a lot of people cuz I'm. sure there's literally someone watching. that's like. >> day one starting to do the battle of. like get through it. >> It's brutal. And the only thing I would. say is that like it's what Death by Rock. and Roll turned into is that at the end. of the day, this record the record's. very hopeful. Like it starts off very. dark and very bleak, but there's this. kind of positive turn towards the end of. it that there is light at the end of. this tunnel that seems impossible and. seems never ending. And if you can just.

wait it out, you will get to the other. side. And that's the thing that I say to. anyone who's struggling with depression. or loss or anything even remotely close. to this kind of feeling is that it does. get better. And it's the [ __ ] up thing. about that is when people say that to. you when you're in it, you want to punch. them in the face. >> It's so real. You're like, "What do you. know?". >> What the [ __ ] do you know? It gets. better. Like what a cliche thing. >> And then you live it. You're like, "Oh, [ __ ] It does.". >> But it does. Time does it. If you can.

just hang on long enough to get to the. other side, there is another side. waiting for you. >> This is an ad by Better Help. So, one of. my closest friends moved to New York a. few months ago, and I kept meaning to. call her to catch up on my drive home. from work. But you guys know how it. goes. The second I got in the car every. day, it's like my brain is fried from. work, and I'm just zoning out and I'm. driving home and I'm getting distracted. by a million things. And then finally, we found time to get on the phone and. talk. And just hearing her voice.

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friend or reaching out to a therapist, BetterHelp makes it easier to take that. first step. Our listeners get 10% off. their first month at. betterhelp.com/daddy. That's betterh e lp.com/daddy. Walk me through. what you have felt with double standards. when it comes to music and the music. industry for you as a woman. >> I'll be honest. I get, it's probably an.

unpopular answer, but I. I tend to not I get asked a lot what. it's like to be a woman in rock and roll. and a woman in music and the double, you. know, all the things you just said. And. while yes, it exists, I kind of don't look at it that way. Like I kind of live in my own maybe I. live in my own world, my own mental. bubble, but I look at it like music is. music, good music is good music, gender.

doesn't really matter, and most music's. crap. Like that's how like I see it as. like like I want to compete with the. best people. And so the only thing with. not the only thing, but the thing with. being a woman in the music industry is. that you get compared to women in the. music industry. Not that that's a bad. thing. There's a lot of amazing women, but you're cutting out an entire, >> you know, sect of of musicians and not. even putting those two next to each.

other because of a gender thing. So So. being a So I don't really know because I. kind of just don't really think of it. that way. But I think that's like the. best way to look at it and I think that. doesn't just pertain to music, which I. agree with you and I'm going to take. that as advice moving forward because I. think you're right. There's so many. industries that we just talk about this. woman, is she as good as this woman or. like oh these actors or oh these. politicians or oh these you know hosts. or whatever it be and most of the time.

you're only comparing them to the same. gender. And I agree with you it's like. so limiting. It's so limiting, >> especially as a woman, it's like it's. also a lot of times it's derogatory cuz. it's like, well, for the women, >> yes, >> you guys are pretty good. And you're. like, >> what does that mean? Like. >> I remember when I signed a a deal for my. podcast in the early days of my career. and everyone was like the first like. woman to blah blah blah. And I was like, wait, no, but like the deal is like. bigger than most men. So, shouldn't we.

just be like take out the gender? >> Take out the gender. focusing on deals. on podcasting like not like for a woman. you're like what what does it have to do. with. >> everyone knows I'm a woman that right. >> so that I think is um I think that's. great advice for people listening is. just like yes you can't control the way. that people are going to spin it but you. can control how you like digest it and. you own it of like no I'm not going to. let that affect what I'm doing. >> no it doesn't affect what I'm doing at.

all and I mean I own my femininity Like. I love being a woman most of the time, you know, except for, you know, except. for that time around the month, but uh. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> But it's uh it's. >> you just have to look at it like. I like you said, you don't let it affect. what you're doing. Like I'm assuming. like who do you look up to? Who are your. heroes? >> Some of them are women and some of them. are men. >> Exactly. >> It's not Yeah. >> You don't only have women idols, right?

You know, >> it's a good point. So why are you. looking at it like that? And at the same. time when you put the woman stats in. there, like our stats are really good. Like we have a bunch of number ones and. you know breaking records and that kind. of thing. So but the way I like handle. my you know my art, the music I make, whatever that's that never comes into my. mind at all cuz why would it? I wake up. like I wake up a woman. >> Facts. Um okay, Taylor, this is Color. Daddy. >> Yes. >> Let's talk about your dating life. >> Okay. What is it like trying to date as.

a musician? Um, I I don't know if it has anything to do. with musician and probably just me as a. person, but I think that I'm a very. I'm a very trusting person and I'm a. very guarded person at the same time. Um, so anyone I let into my life in any. form of a relationship, there's. there's a life bond there. Like that I'm.

I'm not letting people into my life that. are fleeting. It's just not I mean, you. have those people in your life, but it's. I'm but I'm always looking for something. that has a has depth to it that. >> is filling something that I need in my. life. And and that's from friends to. relationships to whatever. like it's. managers, it doesn't matter. Like they. have to have a there's a quality about. that that um. that that is deep and very normal, I.

think. >> Love. >> Um so there's that. >> What is a non-negotiable you look for in. someone that you're dating? >> Uh well, kind, funny, got to be funny. Got to make me laugh. um smart and and. we have to have the same musical taste. or that's just not going to work. Get. out of here. >> Not going to work at all. >> You're also like you also have to think. my music is amazing. Thank you very. much. >> Worship the ground.

>> Just think just a classic. >> Just a tad. >> Yeah. You have some songs that you talk. about unhealthy relationship dynamics. What is something that you used to put. up with when you were younger that you. definitely wouldn't tolerate now in. romantic relationships? using like using me. Um I think I definitely went through a. phase of dating guys that. weren't interested in me for me. They. were interested in what I had to give.

them and what I had to offer them. Especially around the show, like, well, if I date her, I can go to this party. and meet so and so and blah blah blah. and there and I'm talking about people. that were in the industry at the time. and stuff but weren't necessarily as. successful and using me for something. other than myself and and when you're in. it you don't see that and when you get. out of it the anger that comes with that. and the betrayal of like I just gave you. myself and you weren't interested in.

that at all like is super [ __ ] up. feeling. >> Oh yeah, it can lead to some [ __ ]. trust issues. >> Yeah. So, you know, that. >> I can, but the good news is I can really. see through that now. So, >> yeah. And you were young and it's like. >> and I was young. >> That makes sense. Um, have you ever been. cheated on? >> Yes. >> How did you find out? >> Um, I walked in on it, >> Taylor. >> Yeah, >> Taylor. >> Yep. >> No, you didn't. >> Oh, yeah, I did. >> No. >> Oh, yeah, I did. At a party. Walked into.

a back room looking for a bathroom or. drink or I don't know, whatever the [ __ ]. I was doing. And. >> did they know you were at the party too? >> Oh yeah. >> And you. >> that was probably coming from an event. or something and then stopped by later. But Oh yeah. No. Walked in on like full. naked like full on sex happening. >> Did you just be like, "Okay, I'm going. to walk out or what was your reaction?". >> I left and I went with my best friend at. the time and we went and got a tattoo. >> What is the tattoo? >> I have a teeny tiny star. It's my one.

and only tattoo. >> How did you come up with the star? You're like, I just got cheated on. >> I don't know. Yeah. Like let's We got. matching tattoos. That was. >> Did the person call you after? >> Stop. >> Yeah. >> Were did they call and apologize or they. never. >> uh. >> I'm trying to remember now how that how. this all went down. >> Oh, there was a big like, you know, [ __ ]. you match and I never [ __ ] lose my. [ __ ] number. Like. >> can't do that [ __ ]. >> You got a cute tattoo out of it though. >> But I got I've got my one and only. >> That's your only t. >> Oh my god. Post cheating classic. Love.

that for you. >> The best part was it was St. Mark Street. and my friend at it was is a guy and he. got one here too. His is like twice as. big as mine. Mine took 10 times longer. than his. >> Was it painful? >> It was totally it was right on the rib. But the guy doing it I think really just. like staring at my boob because my teeny. tiny star took forever. And it's like it. essenti It's a mole. >> You're like babe this is actually a dot. Like we're we've been done. >> It's a dot. Like I'm I'm essentially. Phoebe in Friends when she gets her mom.

tattooed on her and it's just the dot. Like that's. >> And this motherfucker's been done for an. hour and you're like, >> "Are you still going? >> Are we still going?" Okay. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, good to know. You're. one tat. And would you get more? No. No. >> You're done. >> I'm done. >> Beatles didn't have tattoos. I'm good. >> Oh, I love that. That's like your. compass, Northstar. Like, Beatles didn't. have tattoos. Taylor won't have tattoos. >> I'm also over evolving. So, like I don't. want to. It's hard for too indecisive. >> I'm the same way. I'm like I don't even. know what I would want on my body for. forever, so I'm just not going to do it. I think like I draw on myself a lot and.

I use those like ink box pens and the. ones that last because that's fun but. then it fades. >> Okay, let's talk about your Christmas. EP. I know we mentioned it earlier but t. the [ __ ] season. This is it's so. good. I was listening to it on my way. here and first of all I want you to know. that. >> hearing you. put together the song with your. six-year-old self, I was getting. emotional. It made me emotional like. hearing it back for the first time like.

singing it's one thing but then actually. listen listen listening to it come. through the speakers after the first. >> take of it like it's beautiful you well. up like there's something so and I love. how the EP it's also like you did such a. brilliant job of like there's some slow. there's some rock there like you really. gave us everything that we needed and. more the lyrics are perfect like I'm so. excited to be listening to this during. Christmas time um the grin is also. re-releasing in theaters for the 25th.

anniversary. >> What does it mean to you that that movie. and now Full Circle with this EP like. this is now just becoming a part of so. many people's like Christmas traditions? >> Well, I think that like over the years. realizing that Grinch was never going to. go away. Um, I became more and more fond. of it and and seeing how much joy that. it brings to people, you know, old and. young and every year people discovering. it and like just loving it so much makes.

me really happy to be a part of. something that brings that much. happiness to other people. Um, how very. Cindy Lhoo of me, but it's true. like it. makes me it makes me nostalgic and you. know proud that I can bring smiles to. people around the world every year. Um. or that I'm a not me but I'm a part of. something that does. >> Have you rewatched it? >> Oh, I've definitely watched Grinch. >> You have. >> Yes. Um of course. >> Okay, that makes me. >> I don't watch it every year, but I.

definitely watch like a few scenes every. year. And uh this year I want to go see. it in theaters cuz. >> Can you [ __ ] imagine I'm looking into. camera. Can you imagine being sitting in. the [ __ ] movie theater and you're. sitting in like the fifth row, the sixth. row, you turned to your right and you're. like, Taylor [ __ ] wait. I'm dead. That would be crazy, >> right? >> But you got to just roll up though. totally and have it be like a public. theater. You just come by. >> I'm not posh at all. I'm not I'm not I'm.

New York. Like I'll go just go to the. theater. >> The way that that would be just the most. like healing experience. No, that's that. is really [ __ ] cool. Um, okay. We're. coming up into the new year. >> Yes, we are. >> What are you looking forward to in this. next year of your life? >> Oh my goodness. I'm looking forward to. so much. Um, we are going back out on. tour with AC/DC. So, that's going to be amazing. Um, it's. been amazing so far, but the fact that.

we get to continue this journey with. them is incredible. Um, they're just the. coolest. They're the loudest band you've. ever heard in your life in the most. awesome way possible. They're the. coolest people. They're so kind, but. their live show is a schooling in what. rock and roll is. Um, and to get to. watch that every night is just. mind-blowing. Um, so to continue that. with them is very exciting for me. So, I. can't wait for that. and we're and tour.

really like the long and short of it is. tour and new music and tour and new. music and the cycle continues. But it's. always fun to put out new music and tour. new songs because it's start of a new, you know, new era and that's always a. really fun place to be in. I appreciate. you being so open today because I think. as an interviewer there's such a clear. pattern that I'm just starting to see of. like and this is why I love my job so. much is I get to sit down with people.

that maybe people have understood them. through like a lens that just was not. their personal lens. It's through. different pieces of other people's art, especially if you're an actress. And I. think it's beautiful to like hear from. you exactly what that time was like in. your life. It doesn't mean people can't. still enjoy Gossip Girl. It doesn't mean. people can't still go and enjoy The. Grinch. But hearing how it was affecting. you as a real human being, that's work. And I think sometimes people forget like. that was a job for you. And so as much.

as we can enjoy as consumers, like. you're a real human being that was. getting paid to do these things. And who. the [ __ ] enjoys their work at all times? No one. No one. No one. >> It's a job. >> So like giving some grace. >> Oh, I take that back. I enjoy my work. every minute of every day. your passion. like getting to the only thing that you. don't enjoy is the actual like travel. the physical travel of tour is brutal. >> So we can always find something. >> but other than but like the fact that I. get to play music as a career and call.

it a job is insanity and it's like I'm. so lucky. It's not playing's a pleasure. Playing is it's just fun. That's and. it's what it should be and I think that. that's. >> I feel so fortunate. But you're also. just the exact example and I've always. said this and I know it is a privilege. but it's like if you are able to turn. your purpose and your passion like into. your job or your career. >> it is such a privilege and it's so. incredible to experience it. But the way. that you talk about acting verse being a.

musician, it's like there is no. comparison. You light up. This is who. you are. This is what you are. And so. yes, you were known as something. But I. think it's beautiful to now let the. world fully lean in and get to know you. as this version of yourself because this. is your true self. And that's what we. want to celebrate is like let people be. who the [ __ ] they are. End of story. Goodbye. >> Oh my god. Thank you so much for having. me on. You're kind of like popping my. podcast cherry. I'm not a big I think. maybe I've done a couple, but I'm not.

like a I don't do this a lot. So. crushed. That was amazing. >> I hope that was all right. >> Thank you, Taylor. >> I really appreciate it. You make this. very comfortable and. >> I'm happy you were way, shape or form. >> That was the goal. Thank you. Seriously, thank you for coming on it. [Music].