Sarah J Maas: The Wait Is Over

What is up, Daddy gang? It is your. founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call. Her Daddy. Sarah J. Maas, welcome to Call Her. Daddy. >> Oh, thank you. I'm so excited to be. here. This is like. I have never had more people asking me, "Okay, so like if I buy my own plane. ticket, could I just fly in and like sit. in the corner and just like maybe meet. her?" And I'm like, "Stop it, guys. No.". Never had more people. Um same. Same.

with you. My friends who like don't give. a like what I do for a living, suddenly they hear I'm coming here and. they're like, "Oh, like I could be your. assistant for the day and like have I. told you how much I love you?" And I'm. like. I wish you guys could come, but at the. same time No. No. We're like merging our two worlds. >> made me cool to my friends who usually. only see me in my like ugly casual. clothes. That's That's our dress code, ugly casual. I am honored that you're.

here. I also want to give everyone. watching the I just want to say. spoilers could happen in this um episode. if you haven't read all of the series, so I would just beware. Don't come for. me on social media if we talk about. things that you're like, "What do you. mean?" Like just prepare yourself. >> have had plenty of time to read. Plenty. of time. Very true. Um okay, you are the. best-selling author of Throne of Glass, Crescent City, and the ACOTAR series. You've broken publishing records. You.

have sold over 75 million copies of your. books, and I am such a huge fan, and I'm. so excited to sit down with you today. >> you. >> Welcome to Los Angeles. Thank you. What. are you in LA for? I'm only here to be. with you. You're the only reason that I would. actually come to Los Angeles. Do you. come here often? You're like, "No. No. We don't like [laughter] LA." Well, you. know, we used to live here, so of course. like I don't like I like LA, but like I. mean You're just here for this. >> Or I'm here just for you. Just for you,

Alex. >> I am honored to be. >> Only for you would I drag myself across. the continent to Los Angeles. [laughter]. >> Thank you. Okay, if you are on a plane, can you ever work on a draft or it's. like way too risky? >> I'm on deadline right now, actually. Working on something. But I had to work. I had to work. And. then the worst thing was is that like my. husband, who was supposed to be helping. with the kids, just takes a nap. So. you're writing and you're holding. children. >> And the kids are like, "Mommy, like can.

you get me a new sparkling water? Like. Mommy, my iPad turned off." And like. Josh is just there like snoring. The. dog's like sleeping next to him. And I'm. like, "What What is this? What I I was. about to throw a bucket of water.". You're like, "This is why my fans are. mad at me, guys. I need to lock in and. then you need to focus.". >> was like, "There is like we need to like. get this There's no time for naps for. spouse naps anymore." Yeah. I feel like. you're also known for your writing. playlists. >> Okay, yeah. What have you been currently. listening to for inspiration?

Weirdly like weirdly enough like. I heard the soundtrack to that the Rob. Pattinson like the Batman thing. And. like there was like certain like pieces. in that that just like spoke to me. And. like Yeah, so that was like kind of like. the current thing. But then like I mean. it's not really like inspiration, but. like K-pop Demon Hunters. I'm still. playing that nonstop in my house. And. like even my 7-year-old son has been. like, "Okay, like we're kind of over. that." And I'm like, "We are never over. this movie. We are never over the. soundtrack.". >> That's when you know you've lost it,

where your kids are like, "Can we stop, Mom?" And you're like, "No.". >> I know. I'm like pre-gaming in the. shower like listening. >> [laughter]. >> to the golden. >> babe, we need to calm down.". >> Yes. No, like like I bought the vinyl. record. >> Oh, you're in it, Sarah. >> and I play it. When my kids are at. school, I put it on. And I play it on. repeat to the point where my housekeeper. thinks that's like a mental breakdown. >> Yeah. And the kids aren't there, so you. really know you're allowed. >> It's It's my jam. Okay, can you tell us. like what is your ideal writing setup?

Um. I'm not like a fancy writer. Like I I. don't write publicly. Like I don't want. to be in a cafe cuz like I. I like get very into my stuff. So like. I'll be crying like to feel what my. characters feel. Like I have to like. emotionally connect with them. So if. it's like a devastating scene or just. like a very emotional scene, like I will. be sobbing. Oh my god. >> Yeah, like my husband has like walked in. to like my bedroom where I I actually. write in my bedroom and he's like seen. me just like weeping. And he just like.

quietly closes the door. He's like, "Yeah, we're we're we're not. >> Like a normal husband would be like, "Are babe, are you okay?" And he's like, "Got it. We're on the same page.". >> me like blasting like my like, you know, classical music movie scores and I'm. weeping, sobbing, like typing as fast as. I can. And he's like, "Okay, yeah. Yeah." So the bedroom. Yeah. So like I. just have a desk in my bedroom. Like I. don't know. Like they say don't work in. your like where you sleep, but like I. don't know. It's like a cozy, happy. space for me. Like when I'm in an. office, I just I'm kind of like. I don't know. It's not like my vibe.

Like I used I used to want to have like. my own office, but now I just like I. like to have my own little like tiny. cozy space. And like I keep a very tidy. desk. Um but it's like covered with like. crystals and like ridiculous things. Like. >> Naturally. La boo boo. I have a La boo. boo sitting in like a little like sun. chair with like sunglasses on. Like he's. It's. It's really. >> Just good vibes. >> It's It is. It is good vibes. I like I. only things that bring me joy. That's. what I put on my desk, but I keep it. very tidy. But then of course I have. like three coasters on my desk for like.

one for water, one for like a latte, and. one for a diet coke. And they always. need to be like constantly filled. That's the rotation. >> for Cheetos, which is the worst possible. food to eat when you. write. >> You're like. I know. Are you like a puffy Uh, or a. crunchy? >> I'm I'm. >> the flaming hot. I've never had one. >> I'm like I've never had one. I'm scared. >> scary that I'm like I like my husband's. always like, "Why?" And I'm like, "I. like it to burn.". >> like spicy things in general? >> Yeah, I do. Okay, but I've never had. one. Now I kind of want to try one, but.

>> one. You need to ask tell me what it was. like. >> But like is it like. It's a little painful, but like I it. like kind You're feeling this and. But it's like [laughter] good. Like I. like the burn. Like it. I when I'm editing my show, I'm like. eating them and I love the little thin. ones and I just like kind of take it and. I'm editing. It's a vibe. I also was. curious like when if you do go out in. public and you do ever see fans, like. what is the most common thing that. people ask you when they run into you? Um, people usually don't like ask me.

things. It's more like they just want to. express like what the books have meant. to them. So it usually that makes me. cry. Um, but I'm also like such a nerd. where like if I see someone in public. reading my books, like I go up and say. hi to them cuz like I want to say thank. I want to say thank you to them cuz like. >> So sweet. >> all these beautiful like blessings I. have in my life, the fact that I can. like do this for a living is because of. people reading. So like how can I not at. least just like go up and be like, "I. just want to say like thank you." But. then like when I do that, like they I.

think they don't believe me initially. cuz again, normal Sarah covered in. Cheeto dust, like I look like unwell on. a daily basis. So they're like, "I don't. think that's actually her." And then I'm. like, "No, it's me. Like look, I've got. the tattoo." Like I'm a psycho being. like, "Guys, it's me. Like look at my. books." They're like, [laughter] "Who is. Yeah, no. And so like And they Google. you and they're like, "I think that was. her.". >> But then I feel like weird. Like. sometimes like I'll like. if I see someone reading like especially. the ACOTAR books and like I'll interrupt. them. I'm like, "What like what part are. you reading right now?" Like and is that. like is that like your mom like walking.

in on you like when you're like watching. porn or something where I'm like is that. like a weird say I've no one's ever told. me that. Like I've never like It is I. cannot imagine if I I reading and I. looked up and it was you. I've I've. >> Wouldn't it be weird for you if I was. They would make it 10 times better. >> it was like a super smutty. >> care cuz you wrote it. It makes you. >> but like it wouldn't like be like weird. for like No, I feel like I've walked. into moments where someone was listening. to one of my episodes that was like a. more sexual one and they're like. I'm listening to you right now. And I do.

the same thing where I'm like, "Which. one?" And then it's like a bonding. moment. And it's between the girlies. Yes. Yes. Okay. Um there obviously so. many celebrities who absolutely love you. and your books. Which celebrity fan has. left you the most starstruck? I mean, I. respect like so many of these like women. especially. So like. like Margot Robbie's like become She's. become like Margot's become like one of. my friends and like I love So like. meeting her I was like, you know, she. was coming off the heels of like Barbie. when we first met. I just like it was. amazing.

when she and I like first met up like we. were at like a coffee shop in New York. and it was just It was really, really. moving and inspiring to see how many. young women came up to her like not for. a picture, not for anything, just to. say, "Thank you for Barbie and what that. meant to me." And like I I loved And. like that's kind of like the fan. interactions that I have are usually. like people saying things like that. And. so like it was really cool to like just. like I thought it was like the impact. that Margot has had on like what like. she's just I love her. When I like. describe her to people, I'm like, "She's. as beautiful on the outside as she is on.

the inside and like so, so smart and. like it's an overwhelming combination.". But she's a marvelous person. >> Speaking of Margot, um people are. obviously dying to know what is going on. with this potential A Court of Thorns. and Roses series. Can you give us any. update of like what do you think is. happening? So. I have the rights back to everything. now. And getting the rights back to all my. things has been a big. part of my journey in recent years that. like maybe at some point soon I will.

like talk more about. But like right now. my focus is on. books and like get So it's been a little. while since like you guys have had. something so like I'm focusing on like. that but like I look at any. TV movie adaptation is kind of like. another facet of like the worlds that. I've created and it's something that I. want to be in charge of like I want to. be figuring out like I want to be. learning everything that I can I'm like.

a type A like control freak a little bit. but like I want to like I want to know. like everything about how it gets made. not because of that control but just cuz. I love movies I love TV like I want to. like be a part of that and I want to see. everything adapted the way I envision it. and the way like I know fans want it. um and like I don't ever want to hear. like oh we need to change this to appeal. to it like XYZ's demographic I'm like no. that's not how you make art that's not. how I create my stories so like when I.

do it like it's going to be like you're. going to do it me and I will like. dedicate like everything that I have to. like making it right but like it will be. like I will be in there like you know. looking at like all that design but also. like what does it sound like cuz music. play such a big part like so like I'm. not just going to like the music is. going to have to be like a huge project. for me. >> to have understandably your hands on. every single part of it because it's in. your brain like you created this world. so to have give it over to anyone else. would be incredible. >> I view it as like my my legacy in a way.

where I'm like I put my books out into. the world that's like one way that the. fans are like interacting and seeing. these characters but like. the. physical version of that like needs to. be aligned it can't just be like. someone's take on that I'm like no this. is It's yeah it's yours have you seen. the fans who have created like the AI. worlds of like the spring court and like. it's no I have not I I need to show you. after not I I. >> cool It is so incredible and I'll be on.

Tik Tok watching and I'm like honestly. they made Rhysand look like I'm like how. are you going to actually find a normal. human being that looks like this? >> know. I I sometimes like I that's part. of my problem is just like I don't Yeah, and that's I'm not going to like settle. for someone cuz I'm like being pushed. I'm like I need to find the perfect. person and take however long it takes to. find them. I have yet to find my perfect. Reese. Um I don't really have like anyone in my. That's the thing I have not found anyone. so I'm like I can't like be forced to. like pick someone. >> happen when it's going to happen.

>> to be organic. It needs to be like. something that comes from me. [snorts]. Um and it's like something that I'm. proud of, you know. Okay, let's go back. because to anyone who isn't familiar. with your full story. So your. relationship with writing kind of. started as a teenager. Um but there was. a moment in seventh grade where you. stopped reading because it wasn't cool. anymore. What was it that made you feel. that way? Okay, first of all, we read the most.

boring books. That like and I was a big reader. Like I. loved reading as a kid. I loved fairy. tales. I love Like I loved all of that. Like I Like all the Babysitters Club, the Boxcar Children, but we weren't. reading that in school. And like yes, we. were exposed to like great writing, but. it was so boring for me to be like quite. honest. Like just at that age that like. I was like I'm done. I'm done with it. >> And what were you like in middle school? I was cool. I was a cool I I like I've.

like been through eras of my life. I'm. turning 40 like very soon and I'm having. like a big girls. weekend or it's actually more like a. week. I I got a week out of everyone. in the Bahamas and the theme is. Sarah's eras. And Okay, can you take us through those. eras? So this is [laughter] because. there have been so many versions of me. So middle school Sarah was like all into. like nails, makeup, like Backstreet Boys.

versus NSYNC versus Spice Girls. I was. Spice Girls all the way. Obviously. Obviously. >> Always. But then I kind of had like this. secret life in middle school where like. every day I would like run home from. school. Like I would chat with my. friends and then like bolt down the. streets of New York City to get home in. time to watch Sailor Moon on like. Cartoon Network every afternoon. >> god. >> like popular girl was a like anime. freak. Like obsessed with like Sailor.

Moon, like all this anime. And then like. around seventh grade I also got into. like reading fantasy. Like I figured out. like okay, like there are books that I. do like to read that like are like fairy. tales and like but for like grown-ups in. a way. So, like fantasy became a whole. thing. So, I was like. hanging out with my friends, going to. the bar and bat mitzvahs, like dirty. dancing on the floor, and then like. going home and like taping episodes of. Sailor Moon on my VHS recorder. So, it. all kind of started in middle school.

where you were like interesting. I don't. like the books in school, but I like. these books that I found in this like. fantasy world. And you started to kind. of have an appetite for it. >> And then like around like. around the same time I realized like I. didn't just want to read it, like I. wanted to write that kind of thing and. come up with my own like. adventures. Well, that's what's so crazy. is when I was researching I'm like you. started writing Throne of Glass at 16. years old. >> Okay. So, Throne of So, when I started. writing Throne of Glass I was in my emo.

Lord of the Rings phase Sarah. Legolas? Um I still have my cardboard cut out of. Legolas. And like Josh is weirdly. threatened by him. Like he doesn't like. to see him cuz like there's all these. like stains around Legolas's mouth from. like where like I used to like make out. with him. Like like I like. >> Sarah, this is iconic. It's the worst. and the best thing. Cuz I didn't go on a. single date in high school. Legolas was. my boyfriend. My My 7-year-old I told my. 7-year-old son that once when he was. younger and he literally believes me to.

the point where we were watching The. Lord of the Rings once and he's like, "Hey Mom, look, it's your boyfriend.". You're like, "Yeah, that is." Yeah, and. I was like I was like it I was like I. know. I was like, "Can you believe I. left him for Daddy?". So sad. And he's like, "Oh Mom." To the. point where like even now like again, I. don't really get starstruck, but like. even now if I saw Orlando Bloom, I would. piss my pants, my pants, vomit on. myself, like ovulate, like everything. would happen all at once. I wouldn't.

like I I would cry. I don't know. Every. bodily fluid would just come spraying. out of me. I would not be okay. Okay, but this all makes sense though, Sarah, cuz like I was so curious. I'm like, 16. years old, you start writing Throne of. Glass and and I read I know that you. like kind of trashed it eventually and. rewrote the whole thing, but still to be. 16 years old and to have the wherewithal. to create such a large incredible world. in your head and be able to pen to. paper. That is really incredible.

>> Well, like so middle school Sarah was. like cool, had a lot of friends. High. school I went to a different high school. where I had to start all over again and. like high school Sarah didn't have many. friends and like was not very happy, hence the emo. Sarah. Like I mean full on like studded. belt, the like plastic bands, like and. like I was that kid that like had my. headphones on like in the hall of. school, like probably like. very like just feeling like a fish out. of water there cuz like I went to a very. like posh.

Upper East Side high school and like I. was. not like a lot of the other kids. And so. with my books and stuff, like they. I knew I wanted to write. I got like the. idea for Throne of Glass and I wanted to. write that as an actual story, but then. the timing of it was like just perfect. Where like I was in a place in my life. where like I just needed like an escape. from school and life sometimes and like. closing my door to my bedroom and like. turning on like my like.

it was like one of those square iMac. computers. Like I was like I used like. floppy disks for the first few drafts of. Throne of Glass. Um but like that was like an escape for. me. That was It was like. if things weren't going well at school. or like at home. >> [sighs]. >> or just like in general. But it's so. beautiful too to hear you say that like. this was such a passion of yours and. then obviously you were able to turn. that passion into your livelihood and.

your purpose. And then at 26, you finally publish and come out with. Throne of Glass almost 10 years after. you came up with the idea. Which I think. like. it's like a really hard industry to get. into, obviously. Anything in publishing, it's like it's close to impossible. sometimes to get your first book. published. Did any of your family or. friends try to sway you and be like, "Sarah, I don't know if this is the. easiest path to go down for a career?".

>> Yeah. Um I got into a number of fights. with my parents. who. >> [snorts]. >> I say this quite lovingly, but my. parents are like New York lawyers. My. mom was a judge. Like they're. intellectual. again lovingly snobs that you know read. the New York Times front to back every. day. But like back And my dad still. insists on reading a physical newspaper. So you're different from your parents. So my I'm very different. Whereas like. I'm like page six, baby. Like I'm like.

Tell me Tell me all the hot goss. Like I. need to know everything. And so like my. parents are like, "Oh, did you read this. analysis of so and so?" I'm like, "No, but did you see what she was wearing. last night on" And they're like, "What. is this? But so I was always like this. changeling alien child who was like into. the fantasy stuff. And my parents were. great in that they always gave me an. unlimited budget like for books. They. gave me the space to write like you. know, they let me just go lock myself in. my room for hours and and work. But like.

once like college was kind of like. wrapping up like. they're like so what are you going to. do? And I'm like I'm going to be a. writer. And they're like well, most. people one can't get a book deal and. like my parents had friends who like you. know, were either like. lawyers in the literary world or like. literary agents and they're like it's. impossible. Like you're not going to get. it. Like and fantasy wasn't even like. like fantasy comes in cycles where like. sometimes it's huge and then it quiets. down. So like we were in like a dystopia. phase. Like it was like The Hunger Games. was kind of like starting to become like.

insane around then. So my parents were. like. like you're publishing this like you. want to publish this epic fantasy thing. like. and who's paying for this? Who where are. you and you want to go move out with. your boyfriend to Los Angeles and get a. car and like all like you need to so I. actually considered like. doing like an MFA thing just to like buy. myself more time, but I did like I went. to one like interview with like a. director of an MFA program. And when she heard that I write fantasy,

she literally went uh. like that. Like an actual like. sound. And you were like bye. >> I was like we're done here. I was like I'll sign a copy of my book. for you one day. Um and I just I walked. out and I was like I'm not doing that. I. don't need anybody to teach me what I've. taught myself. Like I was a creative. writing major in college, but like it. was. it was a very fun major to have, but it. was useless for me because a lot of the. classes were all the classes were geared. towards writing short stories, poetry.

And so like senior thesis time came. around and I was like I was like I want. to write a book. Like and I also like. want you to spend some time in our like. seminar talking about like how do you. get published? Like, how do you get an. agent? How do you get published? And. like, it was like It wasn't even a. conversation. It was like I was the. first person who would ever ask that. And I was like, I don't want to write. short story. I tried to argue with my. advisor that I didn't have to take. poetry because I would never write a. word of poetry in my life. I was like, I. can swear to you here and now, I'm. writing fantasy books. I was like, in. the office like, 21 years old. I was.

like, I'm writing fantasy books and I. will never write a poem. So, exempt me from this class. And he was. like, no, you have to take it. >> babe. You have to take it. And like, I'm. terrible. It's there's like a. mathematical component to poetry. Like, the meter and the rhythm and all that. stuff that like, Josh had to help Josh. was a math major and he had to help me. with my homework where you had to like. diagram out. And I was like, I don't. understand. Call Her Daddy is brought to. you by Target. Daddy gang, spring is.

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series. So, when I was talking to my. friends about it, I think something that. is. quite literally the most mind-blowing. thing that you have been able to do, and. a lot of people are so perplexed by how. you've done it, is. all of your series converge Mhm. in some. way or another. But, that must take. years of planning. So, can you try to. explain to me how you have been able to. have the foresight that all three of. these giant series somehow overlap? I.

mean, I. don't actually know how I have the brain. capacity for this, because like. on a daily basis, I'm like barely. functioning. Um. but I I don't I mean, like because I. started writing so young, I was able to. like figure out these worlds, these. characters, and. when I was trying to get published. initially, like I had a lot of downtime. Like, what like waiting for like agents. to respond, publishers to respond, and.

like writing's the thing that I love the. most. So, like I was always writing. So, like during that waiting time when I was. trying to get Throne of Glass published, A Court of Thorns and Roses came out of. me. The first two books of A Court of. Thorns and Roses poured out of me in. 2008, 2009. Like, whenever around then, like in like a 2-month span. Um. the first book is very similar to what. what came out of me. I wound up. rewriting Mist and Fury. The. ultimate like direction of it was, of. course, the same. But, like I been And. then, Crescent City was like a passion.

project for many years that I would. write. kind of to This sounds kooky crazy, but. like I would reach. the end of a day having like edited like. Throne of Glass or A Court of Thorns and. like I just was like done with those. worlds, and I wanted to go like play. And like at the time at the time like. there was not as much cursing in like my. earlier books. So, I was like, I just. want to write like and damn. it all the time. Like, and like And so, Crescent City just started as something. I didn't have not have any intention of. publishing it. It it was just on the. side and then as I was writing that I. was like.

and I so I had all this time very early. on in my career even before my career. really took off to like have a vision of. what I wanted to do. Do you have like a. map in your house to like be like okay. this world no. >> It's all all in my head. I mean like I have notebooks where I. write things down but like the. overarching like vision of it is all. I wish I could live in your head for a. day. That is crazy. >> would hear is just Cheetos and diet coke. on repeat. [laughter].

And all these worlds bouncing back and. forth. >> Yeah no I mean like it's it's. It's like it's very strange to have like. all of that in your head cuz like I. and it's almost like a separate thing. where like I have like two kids now so. like on a daily basis I'm like okay like. what am I making them for dinner that's. not like boxed mac and cheese. and then like I like switch between. these modes where suddenly like I'll put. be able to put that away when they're at. school and then like the world's expand. again and I'm living in them. Um It's. like a muscle you have to flex when you. get to sit back down. >> Yeah but then also like I sometimes like.

go back especially with like the music. that's inspired like some some of the. scenes and like the books and just like. I will listen to the music that inspired. those scenes and relive those scenes and. like sometimes just like cry or just. like just like and I don't even read. what's in there I just like relive that. moment of like where it clarity where I. saw it and so sometimes in reflecting. and going back I I'm able to think like. you know like that moment really struck. like struck me and like stood out to me. like how can we pull that through in the. future and then like but then sometimes.

I'm thinking like books ahead where like. I'll write like one little line and be. like. like this will come back. and like but then sometimes things line. up too and like a really like cosmic. psychic way where. I mean I again I have like crystals all. over my desk so like am I channeling. like something that's happening in like. the unit like another universe and I'm. just like writing it down, cuz it all. lines up perfectly. >> Yes, like sometimes where I like. there was something recently where like. it lined up like I had not planned it,

but it was like my subconscious or like. some like. human-wide. psychic thing. Like I had tapped into. it, it was like. you know, slow pitch over the the plate. for me just to like it was there. It was. it was there and I just and like I. jumped out of my seat and like shut my. computer and I was like, "No, like we're. done here. We're done. This is like too. perfect. Like this is planned. This like. I was like some this came from not me.". And I don't I don't and I don't I don't. say that from like an egotist. I just. literally I'm like This worked out like. it was it was it it worked out like.

almost to like a like supernatural. level. This makes me so happy as a fan, cuz I'm like I was wondering like how. does this all go down? But now I want to. talk about some of your female. characters, because I genuinely believe. in the past, I do think that fantasy and. I think everyone knows this like fantasy. and that world was more dominated by. male authors, obviously. And then you. came into the game and I think people. really gravitate towards your work. because of these really strong, independent, complex women that you are.

creating in these worlds. Um. one of your most beloved female. characters in Throne of Glass is Aelin. What did you want to communicate through. her evolution? I don't Aelin came out. of me. Just and like there was no. planned evolution. Aelin in some ways. her journey mirrored so much of me. growing up, growing into like I poured a.

lot like she's not me in any way, but. like there. was a journey like a mirror journey. there. Um and a lot of my books are like and. and what my characters go through is in. some ways like a mirror into things I've. been going through, but like. Aelin from the start just came out of me. fully formed. Kind of like. Athena springing from Zeus's head. Like. that and she just was there. And like I almost just let her lead the.

way and like my life like. paralleled it where I could understand. the thing It sounds like I had no. control over her, but I really didn't. and I let her lead me where she needed. to go, but also was able to like connect. with her, like. I don't know. Like there were just like. moments in my life where I can like look. back at those scenes in Throne of Glass. and remember like what it was that. inspired that scene and not not like. play-by-play events, but just like a. feeling. Like in like the like The.

Assassin's Blade like novellas, like. there's like one of the later ones, like. she's like out all night like partying. and like just like watches the sunrise. and it's I was like that was like me. like in college like staying out with my. friends like having an amazing time at a. party and just like that feeling of like. you're young and everything's beautiful. and like you are immortal and like isn't. it amazing to be alive and like here? Like that. went into that. And so like like those. were the thing I mean like I was able to. connect with her in those moments. Like. and so I don't know. Like and then like.

her rage and her like her anger. I'm. like I never got to see. women. being angry and. the way I often felt. Like I. always felt like everyone like had to be. like sweet and nice and like I was not. those things. I was not any of those things. Like I. was always kind when I tried to be to. people, but like I had like strong. feelings about things. Like I had like I. could fly off the handle at something. and I wanted to write about a woman that.

like didn't have to be appealing to. anyone and that like I did not give a. if anyone reading it liked her. Like this was her. Sorry. Like that was. who she was and like take it or leave. it. Um better and like I wanted to let. her make bad choices and learn from. those choices and grow in the same way. that like I also wanted her to have like. different romantic relationships. Like I don't know like any of my. any one that like has just been like, "I. met this one guy and like we're in love.

and now we're getting married and that's. it." Like, no. Like I wanted her to grow. with that and take things away from. those relationships and I don't know. She just like I as I was learning all of. that stuff growing up and like you know, like she was, too. Like so there was. just a natural mirror. She was one of. the first characters you ever wrote, so. it's like to know that there was a. mirror there, it it makes sense and I. think it's beautiful that you were like, "I literally don't care if anyone likes. her or doesn't. Like this is who she is. Take her or leave her.". >> Yeah, I mean that was the same like.

Manon in Throne of Glass. Like that was. like an even more extreme version of it. I was like she's just going to go like. with her nails and just like. >> thing. Yeah. >> Yeah, you said, um, you're drawn to. writing women who can't kind of be. placed in a definable category, which I. love. As a woman yourself in this. industry, what box have you felt like. people have tried to put you in? Oh. >> [laughter]. >> You're like, "Oh, sweetie, how much time. do we have?". >> like I should have a sedative before I. like completely explode. I just think in.

general. when a lot of people hear that I write. romantic fantasy, you know, like as much. as I love my like steamy, sexy, hot. scenes, like this dismissal now of like. smut. where I'm like, "Yeah, I write smut. Like I love it." But like that's not. what like my fans come up to me to talk. about. Like they like when they wanted. to come thank me, like it's like, "Yes, we giggle and laugh about like the hot. scenes, whatever." But like they tell me.

how they left like their abusive husband. after they read A Court of Mist and. Fury. And like we cry over that. And so. like the putting me into this box of. like she just writes like really sexy. stuff. I'm like, "No. I love writing. that stuff. I always be proud of it.". Like I mean, granted, like I was like. copy editing a scene in Silver Flames. once where. it was like when. Nesta blows Cassian at like the the. dinner table and my dad was visiting and. I was like I had like the printed out. pages and my dad was like, "What are you. working on there?" And I was like, "Oh.

my god." I WAS LIKE, "NESTA, WE'RE DONE. I'm not editing this scene anymore. It. was the worst thing." I'm like, "Dad, please don't read this.". >> No, and like he insists on it. I'm like, "Should I rip out pages for you?" But. then like the sex But that's the thing. where I'm like, "The sex sometimes is. tied to the plot." Like Silver Flames. for example, like Nesta and Cassian, like they're having like hot sex and. like bodily fluids are flying. everywhere, but it is like intensely. tied to their own emotional journeys and. their own journey as a couple. And so. like this dismissal of it like it's just.

like smut, like whatever. I'm like, it's fun. I designed it to be. entertaining, but it's also moving and. like I write like what I consider to be. like cool that like means something. to me. >> I love that you just clarified that too. because I do believe. it is such a double standard obviously. with women that like if you at all tap. into sexuality or sex in any realm, everything else that you also are. contributing in that category is.

completely dismissed because people are. like, "Oh, you're just writing like sex. shit." And you're like, "Wait, no. That's like, what?" And and so it's so. frustrating, but I do believe in a in a. gorgeous way like if people took the. time, that's also just a testament to. people sometimes don't give a and. they want to misunderstand you. Yes. If. you take the time to understand these. female characters that you're writing, yes, they have been so liberating for so. many women. They have helped so many. people and it's been an escape for a lot. of women, which you've done an. incredible job with. >> Yeah. And I just I mean, I think of it.

as like when I when I want to reread. books, like I'm not going to like the. depressing boring Like I want to. read books that make me happy, that have. a happy end. And like if you want to. read like those other types of books, fine, like good for you. But for me, like I want things where like I go on a. journey, like I like and I like there's. hot sex that I can like, you know, dog-ear those pages and like read all of. that however many times I want. But then. also like it brings me joy.

Um and I find that there is a tendency. for people to roll their eyes at things. that bring joy and bring women joy. especially. Um and it pisses me the. off constantly. Um and I get like like you were saying, like anytime. like a woman I was say she writes. something and there's like even a little. pint of sex that's not like fade to. black or like, you know, very like. artistically mentioned. It's like. suddenly it devalues the work. And it. doesn't matter what else is in that.

book. If there is some kind of like hot. graphically And I'm like I don't. understand though because you're writing. a thing that is so accurate to life and. sex is a part of life. >> going to say this is one of the This is. the commonality that all of us share in. the world is we all have sex. We all. deserve pleasure. And so if we continue. to go down the path of women shouldn't. write about these things or read about. these things or talk about these things, then it really is still just a man's. game. >> Yeah, it's very like Victorian almost. where I'm like Okay, like you're like.

getting into the nitty-gritty of like, you know, what like you're like. Midwestern alcohol alcoholic. I'm like, "What about like the sex? What's going. on with that?" Like that that is a key. part of anyone's life. I'm like, "You. want to have a mirror like an accurate. mirror." And you don't have to have sex, but it's just the this idea that like. having it there. again devalues the work. It's. I find it a little more than. frustrating. Um. but then it's also like anything related. to women. Like I I get like watching. like Lord of the Rings or like reading.

that like as a kid. Like all these. fantasy books like with all these guys. in them. There's like no women. Well, I. would think like okay, like if I was. there like me and Legolas running. through the Mirkwood together. I totally marry Legolas in my mind. >> Obviously, Sarah. Obviously, I'll give. you that one. >> Thank you. Thank you very much. That's. my number one fantasy. But. like I'm going on an epic fantasy quest. in my mind. Like I'm like in Mordor. I. get my period. What do I do?

And like I want to write about that. I'm like that's like I mean it's. not only like funny to me, but it's also. like this is a reality. It's like. I'm like and so like in my books I'm. like I want to write about things that. like. Yeah, the sex, the like, you know, The. real stuff. >> Like the real stuff where I'm like what. if you got your period when you're. climbing the slopes of Mount Doom? >> What would you do? >> Like are you free bleeding? Like are you. like do you have cramps? Sarah J. Maas. is getting the hard hitting facts out. there. I just want to know and maybe. some people don't want to know those.

things, but I'm like I get such I do. such a deep dive into the worlds, into. these characters that I'm thinking of. like bathroom breaks. When was their. last period? Like all of that. >> I think it's so obvious though that. although there and we always hear the. negatives, there's such clearly an. appetite for what you've done. I also. love how you talk about the real stuff. because speaking of the real stuff, um. obviously yes, your books are fiction, but like you are hitting very. real, honest topics that you can kind of.

extract what you want to take from each. and I think there was a lot of online. discourse around Feyre's pregnancy in A. Court of Silver Flames because I think a. lot of people were frustrated, right? That she didn't have control or. understanding of what was happening to. her body. um, her partner. did, which we'll get to, but can you. talk a little bit about why you chose to. write her story that way?

I. love my children. I am obsessed. with my kids. I hated being pregnant. I hated it. It. was traumatic for me every step of the. way, starting with like when I was first. pregnant with my son and I was told by. like this of a nurse, like, "Okay, this is your weight and you can. only gain this much weight while you're. pregnant." And like as someone who's had. like a history with like disordered.

eating and stuff, like being told like, "You can you're only allowed to gain. between this much like here and here. Like this is all you can gain during. pregnancy." It took every bit of joy. away. Where instead of focusing on this. beautiful beautiful baby growing inside. of me, I was thinking about the food I. was putting in my body. And then the. constant. tests and appointments where you're. being like literally like having like. probes in you and like, you know, just. like it felt very And like I I'm like a. person where I like I have to make.

myself go to the gynecologist. Even. though I love my gynecologist, I'm like. I like I and I hate doctors. I hate. waiting rooms. I hate all of that. I. hate the interruption to my daily life. And so pregnancy was not fun. And then. my son was born in an emergency. C-section 2 weeks late. The people that. I knew back then who had had kids were. like, "Oh, like you don't want to take. any of the drugs. Like you will like. really hurt like the baby." And it's. like the opposite. Like if you're a good. mother, like you won't like. take the pain medication. And so I was.

like I I I like I came up with a birth. plan. I had a doula. I had all this. stuff planned out. And if And if that. works for you, like that's fine. But for. me, that was my way of trying to like. control it. And then that day. I'm like they I'm I'm told no, like I. have to have every medical intervention. possible. I have to have an emergency. C-section. But like worse than that, like I went into the hospital. and I was told by the doctor who was. going to like induce She was first going. to induce me. She was like, "Go have a. big meal cuz you're going to be like, you know, pushing this baby out all. night." So I get to the hospital after.

having like a big dinner to prepare. myself for labor. And then it turns out. like I need to have an emergency. C-section. But the doctor who is there. is a man and he starts yelling at me. saying, "Why would you eat anything? You. can't eat anything." And I was like, "Your colleague literally told me to go. have a big dinner and come here. I did. not know I was having an emergency. C-section. I had never had surgery of. any sort in my life before this point. So like for me even to be in like a. hospital gown in a hospital, like I'm.

terrified. Um and then this male This. man I've never met before. and like is telling me like, "This is. what we are doing and like you did. everything wrong." And he's scolding me. So I'm already terrified. It's my first. kid. I don't know what to expect. And so. then they're like, "Okay, we're taking. you back." And I was like, "Can my. husband come back for like the epidural? For all like I've never seen the inside. of an operating room." And they were. like, "No.". And I was like, "Can he please come. back? I need someone there with me. I've. never done this before." And they're. like, "He's not allowed in there." And.

so like they wouldn't let him back. So. I'm like. in the like operating room like like. sitting on the table waiting for this. massive needle and I'm shaking so. violently with terror that like and like. all the doctors there like ignored like. they did not give a It was the. intern. Like the med school intern that. like saw me like panic like a girl and. she came over and like held my hand. through it. And I was like, "Whoever you. are." And like I hope like she I she. probably has no idea that she helped me. Like that meant so much to me that day, that moment of kindness where I was like.

a fellow young woman like being like, "This woman is terrified and like no one. is being nice to her." And so then like. the recovery from the C-section was. horrible. The guy like. sliced me way too high. He was lazy. I'm probably giving you like way too. many details, but. >> This is the real. >> he sliced me in a way that was. convenient to him, but essentially. destroyed like the flow and look of my. stomach where it never would heal, right? To the point where we moved to a. new state eventually and I got pregnant.

with my daughter and like it took me a. while to even want to have a second kid. because what I went through and the. recovery from the C-section was so bad. It was not fun for me. Um and like. I had to have this emergency C-section. one like because like my son was 2 weeks. late, but till he started going into. distress, but like he had not dropped. and it was the kind of thing where I. sometimes think about this. Like if I. had been born like a hundred years. before, I would have died. This and so. like that really stuck with me the sense.

of like I should be dead and my son. should be dead from this and I hope he's. listening to this like not freaking out. right now, but like like I should be. like not here. And so like that kind of. like has lingered where I'm like without. modern science and medicine like I. wouldn't be here. But then when I had my. my daughter, I I had an amazing. gynecologist here in LA actually. Um and. she in our first appointment when we met. each other, she took one look at what. this man had done to me and she had to.

walk out of the room. And she she was like I never would have. cut you like that. And she was so she. she was shake she was so she was like. this was unnecessary. She's like why did. he do it? She's like because he was lazy. and he was an And so then she. and then when it came time to deliver my. daughter and she had to like she had to. use the same line and she was so mad. that she had to like do this. Um and. like so it just was like this very. traumatic thing and my body never felt. like with a kid in me like it never felt. like my body anyway cuz I'm like there's.

an alien growing in me. This is weird. and like every time like they would move. and then I'd like see them. I'd be I I I. was not like oh I was like get it out. Like what is this? And so then like to. lose complete control like. a lot like just. I did not have like easy pregnancies and. births. And so like Feyre and all of. that like. just was my own way of processing my. And like I get like it's not like I. didn't die. I wasn't like dead like.

Feyre was but like. like the fear like Rhys's fear even that. probably came from my fear and thinking. about having another kid. And like just. like the all of that. That's what and. that's the way where like the things I. go through in life. feed into my books where like it wasn't. a play-by-play of my pregnancy and it. like obviously my kids don't have wings. that are getting stuck in the birth. canal. But like. the fear, the trauma. like all of that. Like.

the writing that book allowed me to get. it out of my system and I know why um. and process it. Thank you for sharing that because. obviously I I've read the book and and. this gives so much more color to like. the why and and it just made me think. too like we don't talk about how it is. very risky. >> Yeah. And there's like a constant like. they're constantly doing tests. Like. every ultrasound is terrifying cuz you.

want to make sure is everything okay? Is. there a heartbeat even? And you're like. and so there's all there's there's joy. in it but there's fear constantly. Like constantly built into the stages of. pregnancy. And like and maybe some women. do just have pure joy but I found it to. be very stressful, very scary. I just. was constantly like worrying that. something would go wrong. I mean when I. was pregnant with my daughter I actually. like broke my ankle and fell down the. stairs. Um yeah I like took one step and.

like my ankle just like crunched and. then I fell down the stairs cuz my ankle. like gave way, and I was like pretty. heavily pregnant. I had to be like. rushed to the hospital, and like they'd. like checked that the baby was okay, and. that like I was. >> Yeah, and it just was like a level of. like freak out where everyone's like, "Oh my god, like the worst possible. thing could happen." And it's happened. like It was intense. It was Were you. nervous at all about. the feedback of writing this into. Feyre's No, I mean like the thing is is. like again with like the sex and the.

periods. I'm like. motherhood is a thing that so many women. experience. for better or worse, and it was. something that I wanted to write about, where I didn't want. like. like Feyre's journey shouldn't just end. where it's like she's happily ever after. and she's punching out kids. I'm like, "No, like there's like a story to be. told there. There are things that like. will play out from that." And like. motherhood doesn't need to be like. glossed over. It doesn't need to be. something that's like seen as weak. Like. someone being in a loving relationship.

with a person and choosing to bring a. new life into this world and to share. their world and open up their hearts to. someone That's a beautiful thing. Like. however you make a family, like that is. a beautiful, wonderful thing, and it is. not a weakness. And like I have become a. stronger person. because I'm a mother. Like I learned how. to stand up for myself becoming a mom. more than I ever did before I had kids. And I realize like I who I am now not.

just being a mom, but the things I have. learned as a mom. Like I really like. they're like the biggest badasses in the. world, and like I have learned more from. being a mom than I ever did. Um and like. I think that's a strength and a wisdom. that like should be shared. >> It is. It's beautiful that you did. I. also remember, and I don't know if you. can say if it was related to that, but. you've said before that you were going. through some mental health struggles. while writing A Court of Silver Flames. and in the book, obviously, we see Nesta.

working through some of her trauma and. trying to overcome it. Like, in what. ways did your. life at the time mirror or influence. each other in that writing process? All of my books kind of. have mirrored. my own mental health mental health. journey even before I realized I had. issues. Like, a lot of what like Aelin. went through and like A of Fire, all of. that, like, that was like drawn from.

like very broken places in me. Mist and. Fury, that came out of me and I didn't. even realize like what that meant about. me, but Silver Flames was really. the first time when I. understood. the connection and I around. 20. 18. I mean, it was the year my son was born. I had three books published. I I was. requested to come back from my maternity.

leave like a couple weeks later to do. like. copy edits, like, page like like like I. just like reviewing stuff. And like so. like I literally like the stuff I sent. in was splattered with breast milk cuz I. was like pumping and pumping like while. I'm like editing pages. It was a lot and. like there there was a lot and it was. like. like Kingdom of Ash was coming out that. year and like. I just kept like refining things and. tweaking things and it's about to go to. the printer and I'm told like it's too. long.

The book is too long by a couple pages. It has to go to print in like two days. We need to find like five pages to cut. And like not just like like see like. like so I went through this book again, pumping, hormonal, recovering from a. C-section, frantic to find like to move. text or like literally and just like. cutting words, but like being like, this. line, like you could like bump this word. up here. Like all like 1,000 pages in a. frenzy. I finish it and then I get an email, "Oh.

yeah, we found this the space anyway. It's okay.". And so like it was just like there was a. lot going on. And so like that was the. year that I started to have these like. panic attacks where I. had this overwhelming sense that. something awful was going to happen. That it was all going to go away and. implode and that like it and it got but. like I would. I would I had a panic attack that lasted. for like two, three days out of the I. never had one before. And then they just started happening. like more and more frequently until like.

I got to like. the fall of like 2019 and I reached like. such. a dark place that like I scared myself. and I realized like I needed to talk to. someone. I needed. therapy. Um like it was a very like. I'm probably like I'm going to cry. talking about it. It was a very, very. low moment. And going to therapy.

wound up being the thing that saved my. life. It saved my life. And I went because I looked at my son. Sorry. And I just was like I want to be. here. This is what I'm fighting for. I. don't want to feel this way. The thing. that I love the most, writing has become. terrifying to me. Like I need to not be. Sorry. In this in this hole. And so. I. started going to therapy.

I got put on medication. We figured it out. It was rough. But. out of that, as I was doing that, that's. when I started writing Silver Flames. And so what Nesta feels in that book, I wrote that as I was going through. therapy. And so like. >> [laughter]. >> I've like never cried talking. I feel. very emotional talking about this, but. her I remember like the exact moment.

when I like came up with the idea for. the scene where. she and Cassian are taking that hike and. she just breaks down. And like that was. me. in New Zealand with Josh. at my lowest on a hike thinking the same. thing. And just like And as I was on. this hike, I started crying and then I. saw Nesta and I saw this scene. And so. like that came out. I took notes. I. wrote down that scene. Like that all. came out of me. Um and so. where she gets. like at the end like she's not perfect. She's not healed. She's still a work in.

progress. But like I she was in a hole. I was in a hole and like we dug our way. out of it together. And like the friends that I like made. during that like it's like the. friendship she made. We're like the love. that you have with like your romantic. partner is one thing, but then like. finding like girlfriends that like get. you and like don't judge you. Like that. is another thing. And like that was a. gift that I was given too. That like And. so you just. I I just basically wrote.

what needed to come out of me as I was. going. through all of it. Um and so that book. has a very very special place in my. heart. But now I'm able to look back at. like Mist and Fury and like Aelin's. journey in Throne of Glass and realize. like Oh yes, like I did actually suffer. from a lot of these things for many many. years and I had coping mechanisms in. place that were very effective. until they weren't anymore. Can you. share a little bit with Mist and Fury. like what you were going through?

I mean Feyre's sense of. panic, like those panic attacks that she. has. Where she's describing balls coming. in and like. all of that came from feelings that I. had. Like I didn't even know I was. having panic attacks that raised the. acid in the blood feeling. reactions to things like just like these. ups and downs like all of that and like. I. drew on my own like emotional feelings. but I had no idea until I was able to. reflect in therapy like. oh like so like.

high school like yeah like of course. that's why I felt the way I did like my. anxiety around like tests and all of. that and like having to like perform. like so many things like I've uncovered. so many things about myself but that now. make like looking back at my books I'm. like oh this is really interesting cuz. like this was the that I was going. through without even realizing I was. going through that. but. Sarah like it's so. real hearing you speak about this. because you sharing your birth journey.

and as a woman sitting across from you I. when you were like oh my god I hope this. isn't too much detail I was like no no. no keep going because I think all of us. are sitting here being like yes we've. experienced it we've all gone through. whether it's a gynecologist and it's. been uncomfortable or a doctor and these. are real things that kind of are like. hush-hush and you don't talk about all. the way from that traumatic experience. to then having your child you having. this moment where the thing that you. loved the most of like wanting to have a. child and also writing and all of it.

kind of closing in and not going the way. you wanted it to and everyone's like. yelling at you to get these things done. what used to be such a fun time in your. life to just write cuz it was in your. brain now it's like it's a deadline. let's go. it's a job and so you started to put too. much pressure on yourself because. understandably this thing has gotten so. massive. >> Yeah. and unfortunately as humans. sometimes we literally need the breaking. point to slow us down to be like. something has to change I can't live. like this forever. Yeah and just like.

realizing that like I do have a value. as a person beyond. my books and like. my the love that like the people around. me feel for me is not tied to my. success. And like and accepting that like. whatever happens like that doesn't take. away from. me and like the blessings that I have in. my life not in terms of like the. material things but like my children, my. husband, my friends like those are all. the things that like nothing can take.

that away from me and that's what I like. rely like I learned to separate it in a. very healthy way where now like it is. like a job for me now but it's something. that I can approach with joy and like. confidence where I'm not operating from. a place of fear which is what started to. happen before I had these like massive. panic attacks. >> That is so relatable and I have also. experienced that in my life so I'm like. very in simpatico with you right now cuz. and I think a lot of people can relate. to that of having a feeling in your life.

where you. get something you've always wanted. >> Mhm. but then the fear of losing it it starts. to take over your entire body. >> away at you. and you feel like. as big as it keeps getting you almost. you don't have time to stop and process. it and enjoy it and it's like all of a. sudden your greatest like happiness that. was this passion thing becomes this. nightmare. >> Exactly. that only you can kind of. re-regulate and be like if all this goes.

away tomorrow I'm still me I have my. husband I have my family and it doesn't. have to go away tomorrow but I have to. believe that if I need to know I would. be okay if it didn't so I can be ready. >> therapist made me go through a scenario. she's like okay it's all done what are. you doing? And like she made me walk through it. she's like what do you do? She's like. what's your priority? I'm like well I. need to make sure that my kids have. how like we went through every worst. case scenario and she had me. figure my way out through it until I. realized like. I am I am Okay, will survive.

I am like strong. I am like able to. adapt and pivot if I need to. And like. so like knowing that that gave me a. freedom to be like, "Yeah, okay. I'll do. the thing that I want to do." Like. worst case scenario I'll be like a. florist {slash} like DJ {slash} like. amateur marine biologist like I wanted. to be like as a kid. Um Did you want to. Okay, when I was in middle. >> Florist, DJ, marine Yes, okay. Like when. I was in middle school. >> what? When I When I was.

>> [laughter]. >> in middle school, I had this like I. loved shark I still love sharks. Like I. wanted to be a marine biologist as well. as a writer. Okay. But like I I had this. dream of like living like on the beach. and like the Caribbean like sleeping in. a hammock at night and then like going. out in the morning with like my spear. fishing gun and catching my like lobster. for breakfast and then I'd go out and. study sharks all day. And like that was. the life I was going to lead. So you're. like, "I could tap back into that, guys. Don't test me.". >> go back to. I nearly flunked every science and math. course, which is why I did not become a.

marine marine biologist. Freshman bio, I. was like just on the verge of an F the. entire year. >> It's good to know though. Like if all. this goes away, we know where to look. for you. >> Yeah, find me on the open seas. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by. Hidden Valley Ranch. Watching a basketball game isn't the. same without Hidden Valley Ranch. Am I. right or am I right? I'm right? Okay, thank you. I know I'm right because I. will be honest, I'm not tracking every. stat over here, okay? What I am tracking.

is where the ranch is on the table at. all times, okay? It is the ultimate MVP. in my book. All of your favorite game. day food simply it just it tastes better. with a big side of Hidden Valley Ranch. to just dip it all in. At this point I. am never reaching for a slice of pizza. without ranch. It's It's you you just. can't do it, right? They're made for. each other, okay? And the wings, don't. even get me started, okay? it doesn't. matter if your favorite flavor, maybe. you're a buffalo girl, oh you're a BBQ.

girl, oh you're a lemon and pepper. I. respect them all, but they all need a. size, a healthy size of Hidden Valley. Ranch. You got to dip it in there, okay? It's really a non-negotiable for me at. this point. And if you're looking for an. easy way to level up your game day. spread, you know, throw a little Hidden. Valley Ranch seasoning on your popcorn, pretzels, or whatever snack you're. having. Can you guys just just trust me? Plus, if you are the type to plan ahead, okay, we love that for you. Grab some.

Hidden Valley Ranch dip mix for that. buffalo dip you are making. Let me just. tell you something, truly hits the spot. Look, I don't need to know every player. on the court, Matt, okay? But if there's. ranch involved, I will sit next to you. the entire game, okay? No matter what. team you're cheering for, Hidden Valley. Ranch has you covered this basketball. season. Find your favorite Hidden Valley. Ranch products at. walmart.com/hiddenvalley. I love that we also just hit on like.

F the whole system of like, oh my god, she's just talking about sex and we just. went through all this really intense. And now we can talk about. the sex in a fun way because that is not. just what it is, but it's a huge major. point. >> my parents I'm not even telling them. about this interview. >> Okay, don't even tell them. Yeah, don't. tell mom and dad. >> Don't tell mom and dad. They're never. going to watch this. They won't even. know. >> No, they don't even know how to use an. iPad. Perfect. >> reading the paper newspaper still. >> Right. He's not in the newspaper. >> No. Hopefully. God, [laughter] made me. feel good, really good. Okay, I was thinking about it. You.

talked about how like you love to write. about the push and pull in relationships. romantically, which like obviously we. all love it. But what for you. specifically really makes you tick about. that type of dynamic? I just like if I'm. like, does that kind of turn me on? Yeah, okay, then I'm going to. write it. And like that dynamic like the. characters have to like have that spark. initially. It's almost beyond me where. like if they don't. like and sometimes like two characters. will like.

get together and there's like something. there that I didn't even like plan and. I'm like, okay, like. we're going to go with that and I like. the way like that makes me feel and like. there's something there that I can't put. my finger on but there is like a. chemistry Give me an example. I mean, when I was first writing A Court. of Thorns and Roses a million bajillion. years ago. those initial few weeks I was just going. by like like headlight style. Like I. would only write as far as I could just. like see like you know, like down the. road. And so Feyre I just was writing as.

it came to me. Like I did not plan that. book. It just poured out of me. So like. I didn't know what was going to happen. I didn't plan it out beforehand. So. Feyre like. there's a a beast and I'm like, oh this. guy is like hot and like she gets to his. like house and I'm like, oh he's sexy. And then like we get to like. >> [laughter]. >> then we get to the night when Rhysand. shows up and then I'm like, oh no. Oh. no, like it's not this guy, it's this. guy. And then like and so like that was. like like like that initial seed. Like I. was like, this is a sweet little romance. with like like Beauty and the Beast with.

like Feyre and Tamlin. And then like. page whatever, it's like Rhysand walks. on and like I did not plan him. He. walked into that scene ahead of time. I. was like I get like writing this in real. time not planning it. I had nothing to. do. I didn't have a job at that time. So. I just was like writing like whatever. came out of me that day. And so like. I One of the most epic scenes you're. like, it just happened in my brain. really. It literally I was just writing. this scene where like I planned for. there to be like you know, like sexy. like bonfires, all of that and then like. through the smoke all of a sudden here. he comes this guy comes and I'm like,

who the is this? And then like he's there and I'm like, oh no. Like this is what we're doing. So. it's like that kind of thing where I'm. like Amazing. Like and that's just like. I saw it and it's like felt it all like. and but then like of course like it was. so funny when and the first A Court of. Thorns and Roses people were like, I. love Tamlin so much. I got a tattoo of. him." And like knowing what like was. going to happen, that I was like, "Fuck." I was like, "I'm so happy.". You're like, "I'm so happy for you. Also, I'm so sorry.". >> give you I will pay for the tattoo laser.

removal [laughter]. in like a year. Well, no, it was such a mindfuck cuz I. also was falling in love with Tamlin and. then I was like, "What is happening?". But I wanted it to be like. >> Like you know like when you fall in love. with a guy and then you realize like. he's not the one for you and like he's. got a lot of issues. Yeah. Yes. Across your books, if you had to say. right now today, which couple is your. current favorite? Oh my god. I don't know. That's really, really hard. and depends on my mood. I don't know. >> Okay. That's impo- I don't like that. I.

I can't I can't I love them all. Again, like I have to feel it and like feel. that like sexiness and like I don't like. and I have to be like obsessed with. them. Okay. marry, kill. Rhysand, Hunt, Rowan. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm like trying to. think of like the realities of my own. marriage and like what has worked and. what doesn't work. >> Okay. I'm like, "Which one of them farts. the least? That's the one [laughter] I want to. marry.".

Perfect. Cuz I live with that reality. >> Well, you know. You know you wrote these. people so you. >> know. This is hard. I mean like I kind. of like. want to all of them. I mean, to be. quite honest. And marry all I don't want. to kill any of them. I You'll them. all. Yeah, I'll just Honestly, you make. the rules today, Sarah. You want to. them all? I'm fine. My parents aren't. listening to this. Yeah, let's I'll. all of them. My my son is listening. >> Your son and your husband are in the. other room, but that's fine. Yeah, no. No, I hope he's covered his ears. Is it true that you like part of your.

process is you sit and ponder how sexy. the character's potential name is before. officially giving it to them? >> Oh, yeah. Again, like I. like I will always be like a Legolas fan. girl and part of it's like his name and. like like what if he was named like I. mean no offense to anyone but like. Frank, right? You're like Frank. Right? Like I'm not getting off to Frank. The. elf warrior prince. Are there any names. that almost made the cut in your series.

but didn't that you could share? I mean nothing like yet nothing. I don't think I've like named like I. every like I've used up like all my hot. But like usually like if like someone's. attractive I'm like okay let's find the. hottest name and then I'll like go. through like baby name websites and I'm. like sexy Celtic warrior. god with abs of steel. What name is. that? >> I wish I could see your Google searches. >> it would be. sad. It would be like what time's the. next La Bou Bou drop and then like show.

me abs. Um. >> [laughter]. >> And what are good names? And [gasps]. what are hot baby names? That's. [laughter] sexy sexy baby names which. I'm sure is a very strange thing to I. was so messed up from it because when I. was reading it at first I was in my own. world and I really thought his name was. Rhysand. And then I thought you're like. oh you idiot. And then I [laughter]. thought. Feyre No. I allow any and all pronunciations. You.

do? It's a safe space. I I am not going. to judge I I am a reader first and. foremost. Okay. So I understand. Well. because when you shorten it to Rhys it. looks like Reese instead of Rhys. And. then I remember going on TikTok and I. was like oh my god I'm an idiot. And so. then I had to like retrain my brain. which is fine. And Feyre I forgot I. think Feyre's not a natural one. Rhys is. an actual like name in this world. >> But wouldn't it be r e e? Well it can be. spelled like that but there's isn't. there like a Phillies player? I don't. know. I don't know. >> Rhys Rhys Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

>> Whatever I don't know his It's not like. Feyre is a made up name. That one How. did you come up with that? I don't know. >> You just That was just like I was like I. was like what sounds cool? Feyre, done. Done, put her in. >> Done, we're done. Um, okay. We need to quickly talk about the Tamlin. and Rhysand thing because it it is a big. conversation that I think people are. going to kill me if I don't ask about. Obviously, throughout the ACOTAR books, we saw Tamlin like trying to justify his. controlling tendencies by saying things. like, "Oh my gosh, I'm just doing it to.

protect Feyre." Um, then he locks her in. the manor, which was. infuriating and wild. What were you. hoping for readers to understand about. their relationship as that slowly. started to progress? Cuz you're right, you made us all fall in love with him. and get tattoos about him and then and. then Yeah. And I you know what? I think. like. people change in relationships and what. Feyre and to be fair, Tamlin went. through under the mountain them. both up majorly. And Tamlin is someone.

that you know, we haven't delved too. deeply into this, but it's been. put in the books, like he had a. up family. He did not have any systems. in place to cope with that, but he also. is a guy who's been like in charge and. powerful for a long time and then like. someone's like sta- like he doesn't know. he doesn't have the emotional toolkit to. handle this and he implodes and he drags. her down with him. Um, and.

that was just like. I I just felt natural to me. Like it. just felt like a natural thing where. like I knew who Tamlin was as a person, knew like that this is how he react and. this like shows who he is and this like. Rhys responds to the trauma in a. different way and the way that Feyre. needs and connects with. Tamlin can't handle that trauma and it's. and you know, he made his own choices, but he's also the result.

of his upbringing. So, there's an. element that of like me that I pity him. You know, in the same way I'd pity like. anyone who's like endured like an. abusive family trauma, all of that. Like. he like he's been through it and he. doesn't know how to cope with it. And. like he does shitty things because of. it. And I'm not like excusing those. shitty things cuz like that is why. Feyre moved on. Um. but I wanted Feyre to like realize like. there are different ways to face the. that you go through and that's what.

defines you. The wedding scene? Oh, yeah. I loved it so much cuz I thought. it was actually such again such an. accurate representation of a woman. before those doors open. >> Yeah. >> And you see so many women who talk about. I kind of knew before I went down the. aisle, so why did I do it? >> Yeah. And you slowed it down so. perfectly Yeah. that it was this like. horrifying amazing moment that it was. just it was amazing. Um do you think. Tamlin will ever have a full redemption.

arc? I don't know. It's tricky because I've. had so many. women especially including some like. very dear friends of mine who've like. come up and told me about like how they. saw their own. abusive relationship mirrored in Tamlin. And so if I were to ever write. like more about Tamlin, it would. be done in a way where like it doesn't. erase what he has done. It.

and it doesn't like invalidate the. feelings of like my readers who've. connected to that. Like I would like it. would have to be done. in a way that was genuine to him and to. reality but also like well aware of like. what he means for like different types. of people and different experiences and. to honor and respect them for that. And. like I don't usually like let those. things dictate what I write, but it's. something like one of my very best. friends is like a survivor of domestic. abuse and like you know, she often.

refers to her ex as Tamlin. And like. I've actually talked to her about it. Like how would you feel? Like you know, like like if just like me as the creator. like separating us as friends, like. would that feel like a betrayal to you? And so like we've had like interesting. conversations about it but it's. something I'd really want to think. about. And I've given myself like. several options. Um cuz it's something that's probably. like the hardest thing for me to figure. like to be quite honest like that's. tricky for me. It's tricky for me also.

just emotionally cuz like part of me. wants to be like that can burn in. hell forever. But like as a writer I'm like but like. what is the story that I what what is. like and like not to excuse him for any. of it but just explore it. >> I love hearing your thought process. though cuz again it's like this world. and then pulling out of it like they are. such like real themes. And then also. hearing the dynamic like I'm curious how. did you. obviously. Rhys is the highest fae in existence.

And so how. >> Highest or hottest? Both. >> [laughter]. >> Both. Both, Sarah. How did you decide. like. how. Feyre was going to maintain her autonomy. in that type of relationship? I mean. that should be just like a given thing. in any relationship regardless of like. who has power and what and like I don't. know. I'm not attracted to. Like my husband and I have.

been together actually since I was 18. For all my like crapping on him like you. know, like people should have multiple. romantic partners. My husband was like. my first and only boyfriend. Um yeah, but like he we are equals. We are. partners in this and like. I don't like I. think I just demand that like. the females in my books like have those. relationships of like respect and like. partnership just like cuz that's what I. demand like. of myself and what I expect of myself.

And like that's what I have that's the. gift that I've been given is someone. that like respects me and like honors me. and like loves me and like the power. dynamic thing I'm like you know like I. don't know it's kind of like I think. it's like really kind of hot that like. the super powerful dude like wants to. get on his knees in front of this lady. like like she is in control of him 100%. Um but even that but she doesn't want. control over him. She wants a partner. Like she doesn't want like you know like. they do have like a push pull of like. sexy like who's in charge of what but.

like they they ultimately like they want. a lover who is also like a best friend. that like they can be equal with and. speak to on an honest level. I think the. fans perception of Rhysand was really. tested when he didn't clearly. communicate the risks of what could. happen in this pregnancy to her. What is. your take on that? I mean Rhys is entitled to like go. through his own and make his own. mistakes. And should he have told Feyre? Yes, but.

he was absolutely terrified. Like faced. with like like. I don't know like I just tried to decide. like. Rhys in that choice like he made a bad. choice I think like it was not the like. Feyre was obviously upset. Like Nesta. thought it was up. Um and like he. I love Rhys. Smoking hot. Like I love who he is. beyond that. But like I think it's much. more interesting for me as a writer.

to have him make perhaps a bad call and. do it from a place of love and then like. be able to reflect later. being like. maybe I did like the thing here that. like. the ex-boyfriend like also kind of did. and like that's not okay and like what. do I learn from it? Like yeah, he's like. 500 years old, he's still learning. Like. he's never like been like he's never. been a mate, husband, he's never had a. pregnant mate, he's frantic.

Like he finds out she's been given a. death sentence but she's. full of joy about it and how do you be. that person that takes the joy away? Like how how like. and. Feyre would have wanted to know but I. can understand why Rhys. didn't want to tell her cuz there was. just like he was so desperate to find a. like why stress her out until like he. was desperate for a solution and like No. and you're right, it's so much more. interesting to read from that. perspective instead of like oh then I. tell her and everything like it's Yeah. no like they need to have like issue.

like they're. it's true love, they're mates but like. they will like they do have issues that. they need to sort out, they have they've. come from very different backgrounds, they're still figuring out the dynamic, they're both navigating a whole new. scenario and like they can make. mistakes, both of them can make. mistakes. What do you think was the most. romantic moment you wrote between Rhys. and Feyre? Starfall, I think when like she gets. like they get splattered with like the. glitter or whatever, like I don't know, there's something about that.

That scene always stands out for me. I. love like I still hear like um. like that scene was very much inspired. by um Florence and the Machines Cosmic. Love and it's like every time I like. hear that song I'm like taken back to. like. being at the House of Winds, like seeing. them. >> Yeah. How is it so crazy the way that. chapter 55 has like everyone's like. chapter 55, chapter 55. You're like oh. my did you know like where what was your. head space when you were writing that? I. just was like finally, they're finally.

like good. Like I can't wait. for this. Like so I just like and but. like it was like such an emotional. release cuz it was like. the build up of the entire backstory. that I as the writer had been waiting. and waiting and waiting to finally like. reveal and like I got to get that out of. my system and lay it all out there. And then like the consummation of that. and I just was like this is everything. and just was so satisfied. So I was like. crying but then also just like yeah, this is hot. It just was but like I And.

so for it to become like a thing like. that actually means a lot to me cuz that. was a scene that I had looked forward to. writing for so so long that when I. finally came out of me like it's almost. exactly like verbatim like the way it. poured out of me like not much change. between like the initial version of that. scene and the published one. So like it. just means a lot that it connected. Like. it's become a thing for people. >> Oh girl, it hit. Um you mentioned mates and to just. quickly go through that cuz I'm I don't. know if we still have people that are. listening that aren't familiar with the. books. I would be shocked.

>> be gone by now. You should be gone. >> You should be gone. Um we're a little. too in the weeds but can you just. quickly explain like what that means in. the world? Mates. I don't know. It's kind of like your. destined true love in a way but it's. complicated cuz there's a biological. component. to it where like you can be mated to. someone that is like not actually your. true love. So like there's like true. true mates and then there's kind of like. nature made a mistake. May like Reese's. parents. did not love each other. Like it was not.

a great relationship um but they were. mates and it was like a like there's a. biological thing where they're like we. want to be together but then it's like. we're miserable with each other. especially his mom. So it's like it's. tricky but then when you find your. perfect mate like Reese and Feyre, Cassian and Nesta like. that is like the like last little piece. of your soul that was like kind of a. little broken and is now like you you. found your person. But the rejecting of. mates is Elaine rejecting the bond with.

Lucien. I I Elaine's got like her own trauma and. that she's going through. right now. I mean like imagine like. being transformed into like. a whole new body. a whole new life style like you are gone. from like a. I don't know and like the human world. there like what 60 years is a good life. to suddenly like. centuries like a millennium like the. world looks very different and like. surprise like you've been like forcibly.

like essentially married to like a. stranger who also was like involved in. bringing you into this world and like. betraying you and like shoving you into. the cauldron. It's like. >> lot. She's pro She's got a lot of. that she's processing and so like. exploring like. a concept of a free will. like what does that look like. with a mating bond? What like. what does that mean? And like does. nature like get it wrong sometimes? Does. it get it right sometimes? Like what And. like that again like as a writer I have.

to be like very I'm like. I like to like find things that like. make me interested. Like No, it's you're. mated to someone and like you don't want. to be mated. I'm like what like what. what do you do? Like you're stuck with. this person? Like what? Like what do you. do? But like. I mean the guy is like hot but it's like. what if it's not the like you don't know. like it's just it's something that like. I really like find to be an interesting. concept versus like Feyre and Nesta. where it was so easy for them. Like. nature picked right. Um. but I was thinking also when we were. talking about chapter 55 and all the.

things. Like I Is it true that your. grandmother reads these books? Oh my. god. Yes. Um. I don't know what's worse my grandma or. my mother-in-law reading them. Um Or. your dad. My dad Well, my dad at least. has been like we don't speak of this. Okay. So he won't bring it up. No, but. like. >> But does he read it all? He used to it I. feel like silver flames might have like. broken him or he was like this isn't for. me anymore. Back to the newspaper. >> Back to the New York Times.

>> [laughter]. >> Um but yeah, my my grandma reads them. like everyone in her like. I know she wouldn't like the term. nursing home, but like her like old. people's community. reads them. And so I'm like, are you all. getting like. frisky like reading this? It's like. she's 95 years old. She's amazing. She. she is like my number one like. icon in my life. Um, but like. she's gotten like all the people reading. it. Wait, did she ever give you.

feedback? No, but then like on the opposite end of. that, my mother-in-law has like grilled. me and been like, are like the sex. scenes in this inspired by you and Josh? And I'm like, yeah, when I'm like. your son, I am writing down. notes. Would you like me to describe. everything for you, Linda? She's like, yes, actually. >> I'm like I'm [laughter] like, no, no, no. I'm like, we we don't talk about. these things. >> That is It's mortifying. >> Wait, what are grandma and.

mother-in-law's favorite series? I think. I don't know, actually. For grandma, I. don't know. She's read like all of it, but like. >> it. I feel like my mother-in-law probably. loves A Court of Thorns and Roses the. most. >> Does she love Rhysand? Yes, I think she like pretends that it's. like Josh, even though it's not. He's. not. She's like, oh, Josh. Josh is like. No. Mom, it's not me. No, no, it is not. The number of times I've had to say. like, it is not He does not They have. Both have dark hair, and that's it.

That's it. That's the only similarity. >> I think that's so funny cuz like I have. had that where people, because I have. talked about sex on my platform, people. feel comfortable to come up to me and. talk about sex. Have you had any like. really wild interactions where people. are, whether they're asking details more. about the character sex, or they're. asking you about sex? Um, oh god, I'm. trying to think of what.

I mean like I had a mother come up to me. like a like. 50-something year old mother and be. like, "I just want to say like my. daughter loves your books and you've. completely like revolutionized her sex. life.". And I was like, "Well, I'm sure she. appreciates you telling me that." And. you're like I Amazing. >> I I love that your daughter I'm but I. also was like I kind of love that you. guys have this dynamic where like you. know about this. >> Right. I'm like I think that's really. cool but also like I don't know what to.

say to you as the mother of this child. who's Maybe though it is so um. there's a weird thing maybe because it. is fantasy there is like it kind of is. the it bridges the gap of just like. episode three of Call Her Daddy me being. like this is how you give head and then. like me while with like Rhysand and. Feyre and Tamlin all these dynamics it's. a little bit more like Yeah, like it's. it can you can ease the blow when you. find out that your mother or your sister.

or your friend is reading it. >> Yeah, you know like I actually learned. probably more about sex from like books. and stuff cuz it just seemed a lot less. scary to me and felt like very. safe and like connected to a like things. like plot in the world and so like that. was like how I like learned like. I would not have like So I think you're. right I think you're absolutely right. >> Call Her Daddy is brought to you by. Sephora. Girls, how many of us have. woken up after a night out and realized. we completely forgot to take our makeup.

off? Yeah, we have all been there. The. mascara is smeared everywhere, the. concealers all over your pillow and your. face is already starting to break out. I. know that morning-after skin can. completely ruin my confidence but. luckily Sephora has become my trusted. first stop when I need some good skin. care. They carry high-quality skin care. from top brands like Summer Fridays, Rhode, Laneige, to Caudalie. Plus, their. beauty advisors help you figure out what. actually works for your skin. In the. overwhelming world of skin care, shop.

Sephora and get back to feeling your. best. Shop skin care at Sephora. Listen, Daddy Gang, winter is here. I know it's. freezing out there and I know the sun is. setting insanely early, but hear me out. Just because we have to throw a couple. extra layers on doesn't mean we can't. still enjoy ourselves, right? And that. includes finding some time to crack a. few claws with our friends. Whether. you're at your favorite dive bar, warming up in the crowd at a concert, or.

just having friends over to, you know, watch a football game, the best winter. nights are really just about doing. something together. Personally, I love. getting together with my friends in the. winter because it's an excuse to make. every hangout even cozier. I'm talking. blankets out, fuzzy socks on, and White. Claws in hand. There is nothing better. than sitting by a fire with your. friends, catching up all night long, and. never leaving the house. So, pick up a. pack from your favorite local spot and.

grab life by the claw with your favorite. flavor this winter. Please drink. responsibly. Hard seltzer with flavors. White Claw Seltzer works, Chicago, Illinois. So, you're in Los Angeles. Yes. You're here. for Call Her Daddy. Yes. But, I need to ask you a pretty pointed. question. Okay, I feel like you've like. asked me a lot of intense questions, so. I'm very eager to hear what you could.

be. Okay. I think we need to address your. Instagram post. Which one, Alex? Well, [laughter]. Sarah, the one that quite literally lit. the internet on fire, where fans could. not tell if it was an arrow or if it was. a six to eight. Like everyone has been. freaking out and so I have the pleasure. of sitting across from you and so I have. to ask. >> Okay. Sarah,

what is going on? Okay. Well, first of all, I guess I have. really shitty handwriting. Like really shitty handwriting. If my like arrows and like. numbers look messed up, like I'm ashamed. of this. Like that was not intentional. at all. Um but I will say. that that was A Court of Six. with the arrow pointing forward indicate.

like things going ahead of that. Um and. it is for the next A Court of book. which is coming out on October 27th of. this year. Um I've been working and working on. that. It's been. a long time coming. Um it's something that I it took me a. long time to write. um just because. there were enough things going on in my. life that I had to like sort through and. I had to like and again like I will talk.

about that perhaps in more detail when I. I've already cried once today. >> Don't make me do it again, Alex. I don't. Yeah, I like my makeup stayed intact. Let's not push it. Um but that it's. taken a while because it took me a while. to find the right story and to be in the. right head space. Um. and then like what poured out of me. was this and it poured out like very. quickly. Um. I was in Montana this summer and like I. don't know like I think there's like. some kind of like energy vortex like.

around Big Sky cuz like I just got there. and like it clicked. It all came out of. me. So like talking about like deadline. like that's what I was working on like. I've been working on like. this next project. Um I'm not going to. tell you the title yet, but like it's or. like. cover any of that. No, like I've seen. I've seen some of it and I'm. Can you tell us length? I mean, it is.

I mean, no. I don't want to say any I. feel like every I mean like it's long. It's long. >> can't tell us whose POV it's from. Um. No, and that was one of the like. surprising things for me in like writing. this and like what came out of like it's. I. You get a lot of like insight into like. various things like it's just. >> hold on though. Because if I know anything about you, Mhm. you all there's always a plot. twist. Okay. You've always got something. also that's like, oh you thought this, but also this. So, is there anything.

else you want to share here on Call Her. Daddy today? Okay, well, part of why I guess it's tricky to talk. about the length of this. book is because. this book's coming out October. 27th and then on January 12th, like 2 months later. I can't do math. Whatever that is. The next A Court of Thorns and Roses. will be coming out. So, there will be two books.

within like a very short span. Oh. Um. and what that means in giving you like a. glimpse into this project is just. the story that was finally ready to come. out of me was big. Really, really, really big. And as I. started writing this in like this like. Montana like energy vortex, like. it came out of me in a way that. surprised me. And by the time I reached. like, you know, I like to do like parts. in my part one, part two, part three. By. the time I got to like the end of part. one, it was like 400 pages long.

And there is a certain reality to books. like Kingdom of Ash like had to be like. two pages that's cuz like the glue will. not hold books together. But, like what. I was writing. felt. right. Like, that was what the story. that needed to be told. And so, I. decided I wasn't going to approach this. project from a. you know, traditional format of a book. And what if this story like what if this.

book. was really long? Like, what if. it took me more than a thousand pages to. tell the story that needed to be told, the arc that I wanted to create from. start to finish? What if that took a. long time? Like, what if that took beyond the. constraints of a single volume? And what does that look like? How do I. tell that story? And so, part one. was this huge. huge thing. And then, I realized it was. going to be four parts, a book told in. four parts.

So, then I wrote part three part two and. part three. And those were really long. And. so, like and then part four is yet to be. written cuz I'm right now I'm trying to. just get part one, which is out in. October, and then parts two and three, which will be out in January, is like. one combined thing. So, it's basically. going to be like three physical volumes, but it's like one thing all together. that like no amount of glue in like any. publisher's like factory could ever like. hold this. So, it's meant to be read.

ideally as like one massive massive. story as opposed to like in like a. trilogy. It's not a trilogy. Like, arcs. aren't like wrapped up. It's like in the. way like, you know, you take my book. It's like if you expanded all of part. one, all of part two, all of part like. all of part like it would be huge like. that. And so, I just decided like I've. never told a story that way. This is how it wants to come out. Why do. I have to be held back by the realities. of like the glue that we need to hold.

like hold the pages in or just like. placement on a shelf. And like how do I. get this story out to my readers who've. been waiting like so patiently like as. soon as I can. Like I could not live. with the idea of like publishing part. one and then being like you got to wait. like a year for like the I was like no. like I want that in everyone's hands. And so that's why we're doing like this. like back-to-back release. So there's. going to be like a lot of Akatar. in a very short time.

Um. and then eventually like the conclusion. will be like written like once once I. get I wanted to get these like I don't. want anyone to wait any longer. Um. but it's like it's a different it's you. know. it's Akatar but just I'm telling it. in a way that's exciting to me and like. gives me like the space that the story. demanded and the characters demanded. Um. Oh, yeah. I'm trying and I'm sure. everyone's trying to do this right now. I'm trying to rack my brain around my.

every Easter egg you just gave us of. like who's what story needs to be told. all of like the way that it's being. formatted but like I cannot wait for. October. I am so excited that you cuz the last. time you came out was 2021. with the last Akatar. >> Yeah. Yeah, I think it was cuz was it? Oh my god, that was so long. >> it's it's been a while and that's and. that's why I was like I'm not playing by. anyone else's rules. Like this is like I.

want the most important thing for me is. to write these stories the way they need. to be told but to also like. honor my fans who like make all this. possible. And like I'm not playing by. like industry rules. I'm not playing by. like marketing but I'm I'm doing like. what feels organic and like good for me. and like my my readership. And like I. want to do it in a way that's fun and. like we can all like have a great time. like where it's just like. the story will unfold like in the way it. like in the in the way that I feel like.

would be the most fun to like for all of. us like come together and be like oh. like what's going on and like. >> I am like what the are you doing. over there? Like I. There's a lot of scheming happening. >> And what was it like coming back to the. ACOTAR series and like writing and. getting your head in this head space? >> it was obviously like hard and again. there's like an element to it where I'm. like okay like. that was like. tricky like unrelated to the books but. related to the books that I had to like.

navigate and like figure out. um. and I wasn't ever going to force myself. to write a book cuz like that doesn't. make a good book. Um but I'm also someone who like I take. no from myself where I'm like if I. feel like I have writer's block I'm like. like get your ass in the chair and work. but this was different this was. different this wasn't like me like just. wallow like this was this was a level of. like. I needed to get something sorted out. first and so this came out like when I.

was. when it was ready to come out when I was. right like when this right story hit me. like it hit me hard and I had a vision. from the start of like what it would be. how I would deliver it to you guys and. like that's what I want to do and like. getting to be in the driver's seat and. decide like this is how I want to tell. stories and like if I want to adapt it. for like every new. book or like just like. arc I can do that like I can I can do. that and like why not like why can't we. tell like why do we have to like stick.

to like these boxes of like this is how. you tell a story from A to B. I'm like. no like what if we do something. different like. >> I am like what are you up to over there? I can't oh my god the theories are going. to go crazy. Oh my god I'm like what what did you do? >> I well now I'm thinking that I'm just. like I'm juggling editing two books at. once two massive massive books at once. so I'm just like. You're in it. >> That's That's why I'm like pounding like. diet Cokes and coffee. Okay, well, we're. almost done. I We are going to end with. some rapid fire. >> Okay. And I don't know if you'll answer.

any of these, >> Okay. but I'm going to try. Okay. >> Because I'm a fan, and I've got to try. for the girlies [laughter] out there. >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay? Okay. >> So, chop me down, but chop me down easy. >> Okay. We're going to start from the. beginning. We're going to start with. Throne of Glass. What did Lorcan do? Oh, someone. explained this to me. Like the all like like a couple months. ago. >> Mhm. I I don't know. I I. I didn't know how to feel about it then. I don't know how I feel about it now. I mean, like maybe like bonus content.

and like. surprise Mhm. present Christmas present. sometime for all all y'all. Okay. Where. is Vaughan? You know, that's actually a thing that I. think about a lot. A lot. And that's all I'll say about that. Okay. >> Okay. Is the settling the same or. similar as the drop? I don't I don't You're asking Okay, let's skip Just skip. Just skip. Just. go. Go. Go. Why? You're like, "Skip.". Just say skip if you can't answer it. Why did Aelin have to lose her powers?

I mean, I do think that like. I actually really grappled with that. one. Where I was like, "I hate the idea. of her having to give up something that. she learned to love and embrace, but at the same time like. I do think that like there needed There. needs to be some level of sacrifice when. it comes to making a decision like that. big to give up something that you love. for something else like that's powerful,

and I don't think it would. the ending would have felt as deserved. But then I also think it opens up. again, in my like endless thinking about. things like. just in me as her creator and writing. this like what does it look like for her. after that? You know, like you go from. like all this power then you give it up. and like. how does that feel? Like I just I find. that there was like even with that as an. ending, it felt like a different start. of like a journey. >> Mhm. for me that just like was. fascinating for me. I feel like people. online have expressed frustration that.

some of the female characters like her. and Nesta have had to sacrifice their. powers and strength while you know, male. characters have not. What is your. response to that? Like these books are. about women coming into their power. >> Mhm. And but also like taking away the magic. doesn't take away from their strength. And I think like that's what like Nesta. and Elain realizes that like they're. still badasses. And I think that's why it's so easy for. Nesta in the end cuz she's like I this. wasn't.

this didn't define her. And she's still like. she's still Nesta. And so like losing. that like doesn't make you any less of a. hero, doesn't make you any less strong. Um. >> Love it. Yeah. Okay, will we ever see our Throne of. Glass characters again? I mean obviously I've told I think about. them all the time. So who knows? There's. got to be. >> If my children let me sleep in past 5:00. a.m., sure. >> Perfect. Kids, come on. Josh, get it. together. Um where is Manon now? I mean is she.

working to rebuild the waste? Like what. are we doing? I mean. she's. Honestly, she should be in therapy. >> Okay. That's where she is right now. Let's. assume she's in therapy cuz. she went through a lot, a lot. What. happened to the world of Throne of Glass. book? Will that ever be released? That. wound up being a project that I wanted I. I thought would be easy and then I. realized like no, like I need to. actually like I this means a lot to me. and I need to dedicate a lot of time.

But I don't have that time cuz I want to. focus on getting these books the actual. books out. So maybe that's something. that I like it's still something I want. to do but maybe it comes at a different. time. All right, ACOTAR. Why is there a pool of starlight in the. Spring Court? Is it a portal? Who Who thinks of these things? >> You. I mean, I do. I do. Look at that face. >> too close? Like, I don't know. I don't. I'm not answering that. >> Okay. I'm not answering that. Okay. How do Fey.

get into the House of Wind because they. don't have wings? Like, do they climb. the stairs? This might be something that you find. out. Okay. What is Rhysand's last name? I'm not telling anyone. There's so much. pressure now. Does it even matter? No. I mean, like, he's one of one, okay, right? What is the King of Hybern's. actual name? Fred. Frank. Frank. I don't. >> [gasps]. >> Actually, yeah, cuz they'll ask for.

that. >> That actually might be something that. we could find out. >> That is discussed. >> Okay. What are Mor's powers? Like, truth. Truth. But you like have other. powers beyond that, but I don't I'm not. going to reveal any more about There. might BE MORE ABOUT THAT. WHO KNOWS? I'm. just trying to get things out of you. >> what? Everything is possible. Everything. you're asking me right now could just be. like, yes. Yes, the answer is yes, you'll find out. >> Okay. Um can you tell us anything about. the Dusk Court and are you going to.

explore any of it in your next book? >> [laughter]. >> Maybe you have to know like. What do you want me to say, Alex? What. do you want me to say here? >> I love you. >> want me to say? >> Okay, okay, okay, we're moving on. I. just If anything, I'm just getting. pleasure out of asking. You don't even. need to answer. Okay. Um tell me if I'm. pronouncing this right. Where did Bryaxis go? Good. That was. good. Thank you. Um. I mean, where do you think she went? What do you think she.

is up to? I mean, fear itself, what is. that like? Uh-huh. Where does that go? Who is Mama Archeron? Is she a. descendant of the Iron Teeth Witches? >> [laughter]. >> You're like, you're putting me in a. pain. Is there like an alcoholic drink. here? I feel like that's what I need. I. feel like I need wine. >> I need a spicy margarita. >> Okay, we're going to Crescent City. Okay. We never saw the body, so is Cormac. actually dead? Where did you find these questions?

All of me and my friends putting this. together. We're like, this is the time. of our life. >> like I can like see you with like like. string and like putting things and being. like, I don't. >> My husband was really like, "What's this. episode?" I'm like, "Don't worry about. it.". >> What isn't it? >> exactly. Are Bryce and Hunt endgame? Yes, what? I don't Where does that come. How could they Well, there are a lot of. theories that Bryce is true mate is. Azriel. Is there any truth to that? No. [laughter]. I can I can tell you right now. I'm. sorry to anyone that's shipped that and. has like been like ride or die with. that, but like no. I'm Bryce and Hunt.

>> Okay. Um, how did the Book of Breathings and. The Walking Dead end up in Jesiba's. library? I don't know. You'll have to stay tuned. for answers. >> There are a lot of theories that Rhys. and Rune are related. Can you confirm or. deny? You're like, off. You can say off. I'm not saying. that. I like you. I'm not going to say. it. >> fair, fair. Is Maeve related to any of. them? I mean, like what Like I feel like.

I should just hand over my notebooks to. you and you can like comb through them. for like all the little notes I've made. Um, okay, I have to ask, why are there. otters in Crescent City? Why aren't. there otters? It's like They're otters. are one of my favorite animals. Like I. lose my Like river otters, sea. otters. I don't know why I lose it. And. so I just was like, what's the cutest. thing that like an otter could do? And. it's like kind of like an aquatic like, you know, like sitting like What if. otters were just like messengers with.

their little paws handing letters? I love that. You're like, I just put it. in there cuz I like it. >> sounded cute to me, okay? It just. sounded cute. >> Um okay, who or what is Fury Axtar? Is. she the mercenary that Feyre met in the. first ACOTAR? Okay, these are like, again, these questions that are like. you're asking me things that I'm not. sure if I could should confirm or deny. or just like let let people. >> Am I ruining people's dreams by. answering these things? I don't know. Um.

we've all seen the now deleted Twilight. of the Gods Pinterest board. Really? What's going on there? That was just like a story that I like. it was kind of like Crescent City where. like I always have like manuscripts and. other stories in my head like. I think I have. >> [sighs and gasps]. >> probably like three or four like. unpublished. full books for like different series. like on my computer. that just like I don't know if they're.

they'll ever see the light of day, but. like sometimes I just get a story in my. head and like I want to start writing it. and like I like. get like ideas for it and it comes out. and sometimes I want to share that with. the world and sometimes I don't. >> Okay. Who would win in a fight? Bryce, Aelin, Feyre or Manon? They wouldn't fight. They would all be. like, this is dumb. We should support. each other and let's go get like. In-N-Out Burger together. Okay, you obviously are in a success and. like a league of your own. You've had.

just like such an incredible career. already and I know we've talked about. the pressures and also the beauty of it. Um how do you define success at this. point in your career? I mean, for me. it's two things. Success is two things. One, it's getting to tell the stories. that I want to tell. how and when I want to tell them. That's. a gift. That's a That's a wonderful. blessing to have. That's all I ever.

wanted from when I was a kid. But, it's also like am I happy? Am I happy in my life doing this? Am I like what is the balance? And like have I felt like do I feel. successful in that? Do I feel like I'm. able to create from a place of joy and. curiosity and excitement while also. having a life that is like fulfilling. and fun and like I get to be a mom to. these two incredible kids and like a. wife to like an awesome husband. Like.

and like what like that like having that. and finding joy from that from things. outside of my books. That feels. successful to me. Like I've built. something beautiful completely unrelated. to that. But, Yeah. It is so beautiful. And also like. what is so cool, too, is like you have. completely changed the way that people. think about romance to see books. And. you have given essentially legitimacy, I. feel like, to an entire genre that was. either dismissed or overlooked at one.

point. >> How do you feel about your legacy in the. literary world? This is going to sound like silly. And. you probably like won't believe me. But, just like talking about things like. legacy is like beyond for me. When I. started writing, when I started trying. to get published, like I told myself. like. you know, anytime I got a rejection, you. know, I was rejected by every single. agent except one, every single publisher.

except one. And those times I told myself it didn't. matter. if it took me until I was 90 years old. to publish a book. If it wasn't the book. I was trying to get published, I'd write. the next one and the next one and the. next one until it happened. And so like I was willing to have a life. where like just one book eventually made. it. And that's was like and that still was. kind of like that was the dream. And so. everything else beyond then. has been. insane.

Like insane to me. Because I'm still very much that like. girl in middle school or high school. like sneaking off to like watch anime or. like drool over Legolas and like getting. to go like play in these worlds in my. head and like do the thing that like. makes me come alive every day is like. that's incredible. And so like talking. about like these books going beyond that. and meaning something and like. playing whatever role they have and like. letting. other similar books like get out there.

and like be appreciated and those like. authors be appreciated like that. that's all like I. I just like it I feel very very blessed, very humbled. Like I. I love that people are reading like. people like I mean as a kid I just. wanted someone to read my and be. like it's good. Like that's all I. wanted. I also think it's such a great. inspiring story because someone like you. again like a lot of times we get the. success stories, right? You're sitting.

here and you're so well known and you've. had such such success. But a lot of people could be sitting. right now watching this being like I've. wanted to be a writer or I've wanted to. be whatever it be and when you are told. no so many times um. that can be depleting and the fact that. you are where you are today even though. people looked at you being like you're. insane, this isn't going to work. You. had people in jobs look at you and roll. their eyes about writing fantasy, right? And look at the empire that you've.

built. Like what an incredible testimony. to women listening of like if anything I. genuinely believe that when people are. telling you that you're crazy for. wanting to start something or do. something and they're all looking at you. kind of cross-eyed, that is like your. first indicator that that onto something. incredible. Oh yeah. Anytime someone. told me I couldn't do something, I would. say, "Watch me.". Mhm. Watch me. >> You said you're like, "I'll sign the. book one day." Yeah. Yeah. Where Where. are they now? Yeah, where are they now? And just like, I don't know. Like, I.

wrote the thing that I love Like, I. wrote the stuff that I love, that I've. always loved. And like, I was always flabbergasted that anyone, especially like older adults, would tell. like a young person like like, "It's not. worth your time. It will never happen.". And I'm like, "Why can't we all be supportive of our. dreams?" And like, but thankfully like I. knew what I wanted. Like, I knew this is. what I wanted to do. And so, there was. nothing. that was going to stop me from that. Um. but I also was willing to like if it. took me till I was 90, that was just.

what I want Just one book that came out. when I was 90 years old, like that would. have been. wonderful. And look how many you have, and more to come. >> And more to come. I cannot thank you. enough for sitting down with me. I I'm. sure you can feel I could have kept. going. Like, I have so Oh no, I could. sit I'm very comfortable right now. Like, I could sit here for a while. >> questions. There's so many like. world-building questions and character. arcs, and I recognize I was trying to do. a balance of getting to know you, also. getting into your psyche, and I think we.

we found a good balance of the themes in. your life that have inspired some of. these incredible [snorts]. worlds and characters. Um. but it was really fun to sit down with. you, because I've been a fan from afar. And now getting to sit with you, I feel. even more invested, weirdly. And I'm. like, now I need to go back and read all. of these before October. >> [laughter]. >> No pressure. I just need to find some. time. >> that I didn't like disappoint you, and. you were like, "She was the worst and. like the most boring person ever.". >> When we turn off the cameras, I'm like,

"Oh wait, and one more question. Another. question. Another question.". >> I'm going to Montana after You want to. come to Montana with me? Let's. >> going to Montana. Bye, everyone. Let's. go. I'll show you the the vortex, where. everything. >> Where you wrote it all. Yes, I'll show. you the magic vortex. Sarah, thank you. so much for coming on Call Her Daddy. It. was an honor. It was actually an honor I. mean like we talked about like me and. like all like. what you have done. Like again, like my. friends don't give a about me. I. mean like they do. They're proud of me, but like me coming on here like this was. a big big deal for them and like.

thank you for making me feel cool. >> [laughter]. >> YOU ARE COOL. I I don't know about that. I mean You. are. cheetahs. You are literally so cool. and you are building worlds I don't that. all of us are obsessed with. I don't. know what could be a cooler job. Like. you what you have in your brain has made. all of us into this insane fandom. Like. bow down to you. Great work. Oh, great. work. >> [music].

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