RuPaul: Blocking Out the BS (Full Episode)

What is up, daddy gang? It is your. founding father, Alex Cooper, with call. her daddy. Okay. Okay. Okay. RuPaul, welcome to. Caller Daddy. Thanks. Thank you so much. for being here. I am very, very excited. to talk to you. I think my fans are. going to freak out. I think this collab. is going to be very fun. When are you. your most confident? Uh, when I'm alone. People freak me out, man. People freak.

people are freaky. Most people think of. confidence as power or as having stuff. or doing things. But it's that's not I I. feel most confident when I'm not. distracted by other people's [ __ ]. Period. Would you consider yourself high. or low maintenance? Oh, I am so low. maintenance. Wow. I am so low. maintenance. You would not believe it. Really? How Yes. I f I can take care of. myself. And you know what? Uh I open my.

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Belgian waffle cones available at. retailers nationwide. Okay, let's talk about your memoir. Congratulations, The House of Hidden. Meanings. I think that this book is. incredible because you offer like a very. personal look into your childhood. You. offer a personal look into early. relationships and just some of the. biggest struggles that you've been. through in your life. So, let's get into. it. As a little boy, did you want to be. famous? Like, would anyone have been.

surprised that you became famous in your. life? No one would have been surprised. that I became famous. And uh did I want. to become famous? It wasn't even about. did I want to. I knew it was my destiny. I felt that people would had pointed me. out from a very early age that says, "Hey, who who are you? What are you. doing? Hey, you you know uh I was always. um different is the wrong ter. It was it. was someone that people noticed, right? So I knew that somehow my destiny.

involved being outfront. And the truth. is I am an introvert masquerading as an. extrovert. And and I can do it. I can do. the thing like, "Hey, how you doing? What's up?" "Hey, you know what? Um, is. that cashmere? Oh my god, I love. cashmere." Cashmere. Now, the word. cashmere, you know, where I just go on. and just look like I'm being open, open, open. I know how to do it. But, um, the. truth is my real s, you know, I'm just. being chill. Just being chill. Do you. get exhausted? It can exhaust me. I I.

you know if I'm not uh working I like to. spend time alone to recharge my battery. but it can be exhausting. Now I usually. keep that hidden tucked away and I. pretend like oh my god is that cashmere. and I'll do the thing. But the truth is. uh I don't give a [ __ ] about cashmere. But I do that to get through to get. through life and to maintain and to you. know uh to get endorsement deals and to. get uh people to like me on social and.

do all the stuff. First of all, thank. you for just being honest because I. think a lot of people actually will. completely relate to what you're saying. of like it's [ __ ] exhausting trying. to walk into work, walk into rooms and. having to put on a facade because at the. end of the day, none of us are going to. be completely the same when we walk into. a room with other people than we are. when we're alone. But there is a world. of social currency that you need to. somewhat engage in, especially if this. is your career. It's like you're right.

You got to sit across from me right now. and I'm sorry, but I'm going to ask you. questions about this memoir. Listen, I I. do enjoy cashmere from time to time. You. know, I can do the thing, but what most. people don't know about me is that is. that base level thing, which is um don't. take any of this too seriously. Otherwise, you get yourself caught up in. in trouble and and and wars and you. know, getting your feelings hurt. I. mean, it's it's it's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. Um, in the book you talk a.

lot about your family dynamics. Can you. kind of paint the picture of what your. relationship was like with your mother. growing up? I loved my mother. I love. the fact that she too, she didn't. believe the [ __ ] She just didn't. and and and unfortunately for her, I. think most of that came out of uh worldw. weariness. And I think uh she didn't. talk about her childhood very much but. um or at all. But I have a feeling some. really awful things happened to her as a.

little girl. And um so she was very. worldw weary. So she didn't put up the. pretense, you know, like I can do the. cashmere speak. She did not at. all at all. And she would cuss someone. out. We could cuss in the house. We. could do, you know, and um you know, I. felt uh growing up my role was to sort. of lift her up. And I did. and I would. do my impersonations for her, you know, of Tina Turner or Gerald Dean from the.

Flip Wilson show, but she was she had a. a dark dark cloud over her. And I. related to that and I understood it very. well because um if you look at the world. with X-ray eyes, there is so much. darkness and sadness. So I I choose joy. Now, that doesn't mean that I don't. recognize the the the darkness or the. pain, but um and I do I look at the. darkness, but I don't stare at it. I'm.

going to say that again so you. [ __ ] can get it. I look at the darkness, but I don't. stare because it will suck you in. And. you are a powerful witch. You are. powerful. You can create whatever life. you want. life asked, "What do you want. me to be?". Okay, I'll be that. I also was just. thinking, I may be butchering this. I. remember there was this one line that. you wrote about her basically saying. something about like, "If I'm not paying. their [ __ ] taxes, why the [ __ ] do I.

give a [ __ ] what they're doing?" If they. ain't paying your bills, pay them. [ __ ] no mine. That was my mother. And it's true. And it's it's it's sort. of uh you know the same uh uh philosophy. is um uh what other people think of me. is none of my business. I'm curious. though when you talk about your mother. in the book as you know as strong as she. was like there as a child it seemed like. there wasn't a lot of this like. affection and like coming to you with.

love like how do you think you. internalized that as a child? Yeah. Well, I first of all, I I put her first. and I understood what her pain was. So, I guess I justified her not being that. affectionate or that that that sort of. idea of mothering that we all think of. She was not that. In adulthood, I. understood that, oh, she probably could. have been more loving. But at the time, I felt empathy for her because I knew. that she was in so much pain. I mean, she was always the whole time of my.

childhood, she was at war with my. father, you know, and uh it made me feel. like a diplomat. And it it taught me how. to read the room and figure out what. people needed. I I knew what I could say. around my father and what I could say. around my mother, these waring factors, and to not incriminate one or the other. I knew how to um to give them what they. wanted without without telling giving. too much information about my mother to. my father and vice versa. You talk about.

this big moment where your mom finds out. that your dad was cheating on her in the. book. Can you kind of like talk to me. about that day because it was a pretty. intense day. Well, he was he had always. uh uh been uh you know out seeing other. women. Uh but this was this one I guess. r this time it just rubbed her the wrong. way and and and we we will circle back. around to the whole idea of cheating too. because um you know x-ray eyes on a.

situation is is cheating really a thing. I mean come on people do things. men want to spread it around it's just. the animal that that they are now if. someone promises you that that all of. this area here is going to be only for. them. They're lying. You think? Oh, no. Not think, darling. Not think. That it's And I know for. women, they're like, "Oh, no. Um, he's.

going to be mine forever." Like, um, who. the [ __ ] are you fooling? That's what. everyone's cheating. It's not cheat. It's not cheating. If you say you're. going to save all of this area for one. person, you are cheating on yourself. [ __ ] You are cheating on yourself. Should I not get married? I'm engaged. Listen, you get married, do whatever you. want. But why would you to the what. person you love the most? Why would you. put restrictions on them? If and your. best friend in the whole wide world who. you love more than anyone else, why.

would you say, okay, if you're presented. with a situation that is so fabulous and. so lovely, I don't want you to do it. That is like the that is such an. interesting way to look at it and I love. it. You can get mad at me all you want uh. with this philosophy. I didn't come up. with it. It's just my observation and. it's it's true. And I grew up, you know, I'm around men and men who are listening. to this are going, "Yeah, they're like, "Fuck, he's right. Look away. Look.

away." No, it's true. It's true. So, um, yeah, what happened with my mother and. father, two people who should have never. been together, you know, uh, he parked. the car in the garage of our house and. she poured gasoline all over the car and. said, "Motherfucker, I will light this [ __ ] up." And um, I'm. 5 years old. My sister's uh, Rozie is. four, Renee Renetta are seven years. older than me. We're across the street. from the house looking at this scene and.

uh uh the whole neighborhood is out. there watching and she's like, "I will.". And and Irving is my father is saying, "Um uh Tony, please please don't. donate." And she's she's got a pack of. matches in her hand saying, "I will do. it. I'll do it." Eventually, uh Sister. Harris from uh her church comes and and. talks her out of it and everything is. gone and the fire trucks are there, everything. But when I think back on. this scene, I'm not in my body. I'm actually like a.

camera on a on a dolly or a jib looking. at the whole scene, moving around the. scene like a camera outside of my body. And what happens with young people uh. and we all do this is we disassociate. and so that the trauma of what's going. on doesn't affect us on an emotional. level, we separate from our bodies. we. um uh we separate from our bodies. And. so I don't remember coming back into my. body until I got sober uh which was uh.

when I right right before I turned 40. I. was outside of my body the whole time. because it wasn't safe enough to be in. there with those feelings. When you look. back at that moment, what does it make. you feel for your younger self? I I feel. I feel sad for my younger self. I. absolutely do. Let's talk about your. relationship with your father because I. know that you wrote that you felt very. abandoned by him in moments in your life.

and I'm wondering if you can kind of. just like paint the picture of that. dynamic and if there are specific. memories that come up. You at the time I. felt abandoned by him but through years. and years and years and years of therapy. I realized he had abandoned himself. It. wasn't personal. It's like reading the. comments on YouTube or whatever about. yourself. It has nothing to do with me. It had everything to do with him. I. think I'm talking too fast and I need to. say all of that. No, this is good. One. more time. How fast I usually talk. So, we can like go as fast as you want or we. can go like super slow. I I People. really need to understand what I just.

said, which is that it had nothing to do. with me. Of course, at a as a child, I. thought he he just doesn't like me. He. doesn't No, he didn't like himself, baby. It had nothing to do with you. Now, my ego wanted to make it about me, but No. No. He um he uh I saw a psychic. 30 years ago who said, "Well, your. father, you and your father shared past. lives together." So when you came into. this when you came into this life.

together, uh you were like, "Hey buddy, it's you. Let's party. Let's boogie. Hey, we're going to have a we're going. to we're going to rule the school." But. he could not see me. And I spent so much. time saying, "Wait, you need joy? I'll. give you some of my joy. you need um you. need a reminder. Let me remind you of. who you are. Could not see it. And. through therapy, I realized well he. couldn't see it because. for a person to become present in this. moment and this is true of every human.

on this planet to be present in this. moment. would invite you to recognize how much. pain you're in right now. So we distract. ourselves with whatever we can get our. hands on to not experience the depth of. pain that we are in. But to to move. forward in this life, you have to walk. through that fire. You have to walk. through that pain to get to the other. side. There's no other way. There isn't.

And I think it's it can take people. a lifetime. It some people never get to. that point. Some people engage in. therapy and then they're like, "Oh, [ __ ] I don't want to do this." But it's. like you have to open it up to actually. see what's in there to then get through. it to get on the other side. You're. right. And I think about the this this. moment that you write about in the book. where you would sit outside your house. on the steps and you're waiting for your. dad and you're waiting for your dad. And. I think you're so right where so many.

people can relate probably that are. listening to like yearning for from like. their parents for something that they. want. And you're so right. Like it had. nothing to [ __ ] do with you. He. wasn't not showing up because he's like, "God, I hate R. I don't want to see his. face when I pull up to the house." And. literally, but you're sitting there. being like, "He didn't come home because. of me." And it's like, it literally had. nothing to do with you. But that's hard. to understand at such a young age. So. you just internalize it like, "Damn, my. dad [ __ ] hates me. He's abandoned me. I'm nothing. Like what's wrong with me?". That's right. How did your relationship.

with your father inform the the romantic. relationships and men you ended up. pursuing and choosing? Well, obviously I. I never got that uh uh validation from. my father. So, of course, uh playing the. role of Ru's father today is soando. And. it would be the it's like it's like the. exact uh replica uh charming, charismatic, good-looking, but not. available. So, I would replay this thing.

over and over, relationship after. relationship, until I ultimately met. George, who um was someone who uh chased. me, chased me. And I didn't know what to. do with I said, you know, okay, so let. me Okay, what's that going to look like? I'm so used to being the chaser. So to. uh allow someone. to chase me, it it changed everything.

It changed everything. And of course, I had to um get in touch with my ability. to love myself. even just to accept it. Like even you saying like which we're. going to get to like when you met your. husband. It must have been such a. strange feeling to accept a love that. you had never experienced. Your mother. being distant, your father not showing. up for you to then have someone pursuing. you. You're like, "What the [ __ ] is. going on?" Like this feels good, but.

what's off? And so in a strange way, a. lot of the times the the the thing we're. used to, that is what we gravitate. towards because it's the norm, even if. it's [ __ ] toxic and even if it's. unhealthy. And it's like, what the [ __ ]. Preach, [ __ ] Right. Preach. It's. [ __ ] You're like, I love this. And. it's like, but you watched your father. abuse your mother. You watched it. So it. as [ __ ] up as it is. Well, that you. never saw a healthy relationship. So how. would you know like not to be scared. when someone is just being loving, being. nice, coming to you, pursuing you?

You're not begging for attention and. affection and love. You're like, "The. [ __ ] is going on?" Run. Something must. be off. Did I do Is it disingenuine? Is. he lying? Is he using me? What is like. you? You spiral. And then you run back. to what you're used to. And you're like, "How do we end the cycle?" Which you. eventually did, but let's pause. We need. to stay in the 20s. We need to stay in. the 20s. Then we'll get to the husband. Well, what but what you're describing is. an abused child who's taken away from. abusive home leaves there and longs to. go back home because that is what they.

know and oppressed people take on the. characteristic. of their oppressor. And how do you break. that cycle? You have you have to hit. some type of rock bottom to get to that. place. And it is the most difficult. thing you will ever do in your entire. life. When you talk about these early. relationships that you went through. before you found your husband, you say. it felt like you would absorb your. parents toxic behaviors and patterns. [ __ ] relatable. I understand you.

would like go for people that weren't. available, but like take me to a moment. in a room with someone like what were. you putting up with? And then you would. pause and be like, am I literally. replicating what my [ __ ] parents did? Like how am I here? Well, what what the. biggest offense is not trusting your. instinct and your intuition about. something. This is something they don't. tell you what getting old uh gives you. is that you learn to trust your. intuition about a situation a person and.

you know when you are you know somewhat. hypnotized by a person uh like I was. early uh 20s all of that intuition you. you you push it to the side because you. think this is exactly what I need this. is what I need it looks like the the um. validation I'm or and love I I was. supposed to get from my father or from. my mother. But um that uh that that. never works. And in fact uh the only.

validation you ever need really is from. your adult self to your child. Yeah. It's just it's so [ __ ] hard to break. the cycle. And and I want to talk about. your 20s. you became this well-known. performer in the club scene and I know. you referenced like I was dissociating. most of my life until I got sober and so. let's talk about when you weren't sober. taking the partying too far indulging so.

heavily in these moments can you talk to. me about your club life back then and. yeah well listen I have no reg I I used. for 30 years I have no regret the first. 20 were a blast had a great time it was. those last 10 that were pure hell I I. had a blast had a blast until it didn't. work anymore And it and you know what? Thank God for the drugs and alcohol. because it saved my life from uh it it. gave me a layaway plan, a deferment plan.

until I I was strong enough to deal with. what was going on. And thankfully, I. found I found a 12step program that. really really really helped me so much. that I am in love with. And so, uh, I. wouldn't be here if it wasn't for that. I would not be here if it wasn't the. success I have today. I wouldn't have. that if it weren't for this 12step. program because it put takes you through.

a process of walking back to the scene. of the crime. and forgiving yourself. and giving you the tools, the processing. tools. to deal with all of the trauma. of what life is. You know, we all live. with so much trauma. And you know, I. feel that not just America, I think the. whole world. is needs to hit rock bottom before we. can pull ourselves up because we, you. know, there are two ways to learn. You.

can learn intellectually or you can. learn by hitting your head on the on the. on the corner of the thing. Mama said, "Rue, don't touch that stove." Now, if I. were smart, I would thought, well, mama's been around for a while. She she. probably knows the right thing. I'm. gonna touch the stove. That's who we. are. We touch the stove. We are bashing. our heads against everything. And I. agree with you. I think there's gonna. have to be a rebuild moment. I. appreciate the way you just explained.

though, like the drugs and the alcohol. and what they were for you because I. think people that haven't had hardship. in their life are the people that are. like, "Why don't you just leave the. abusive relationship? Why don't you just. leave? Just stop." And it's like the. pain that you're describing and the pain. that people go through when they do. dissociate. There is like a level where. like you actually can't re-engage with. your reality until you're [ __ ] ready. It's like how I always talk with friends. who have been through certain things or. like should I get into therapy? I'm like.

when you're ready. Not cuz I'm saying. like you really need it. Of course you. know you need it, but when are you ready. to actually accept it instead of. everyone shoving you in the door? Go to. rehab, go get help. No, no. Do you know. you're ready? Everyone has a different. threshold. Everyone needs to go at their. a different pace. But the judgment. around people that aren't ready, I think. we need to have some [ __ ] grace. because it is not that [ __ ] linear. and simple. It's just not. It's not. And. people are just [ __ ] [ __ ] about. it. I'm curious like when you look back.

at that time in your life, as fun as it. was, did you have any like self-. sabotaging tendencies back then at all? Well, the only I you obviously uh drugs. and alcohol put you in situations uh. that uh could be highly dangerous. Um, and I was in those situations really. mostly aside from the drugs that was. with people that I was attracted to and. trying to to relive the situation uh.

with my father uh and I guess really. with my mother too, you know, trying to. find a situation that would feed my. soul. I was looking for soul food and I. was looking for uh a way to fill that. void when ultimately that void had to be. filled by me. You talk about how you for. a while were like quite uncomfortable. with the idea of being wanted, being.

desired. What types of things were you. doing to avoid being seen sexually? Oh, listen. I didn't have to do anything to. not be seen sexually. Here's the thing. You know, I've always been an oddball. I. don't fit into anyone's um uh. description of what sexual this in the. sexual hierarchy, right? Uh the sexual. hierarchy is, oh, he's a he's a daddy. Oh, you're a twink. You're And there's a. whole list of those things. I never fit. into any of those things until the first.

time I got into drag, people uh men or. straight men went, "Oh, you're that.". And what? And it scared me. It shocked. me because I'd never experienced that. kind of um what's the word uh where. you're being uh in objectified object. objectification never I'd never. experienced that before because I never. fit into the sexual hierarchy of LA. So. when I got into drag just as a fluke, uh. my band was doing this thing and we got.

in drag. Okay, I couldn't believe the. attention that I got. And I wasn't doing. high glam drag. I was doing I shaved my. legs, my hairy chest. I um uh you know, I smeared lipstick and just it was like. punk rock, you know, drag. But I noticed. a difference in the energy I was. getting. Let's talk about George because it. almost made me tear up when you teared. up at the very beginning of this. interview. You just mentioned his name.

and you got tearyeyed and I don't know. like what comes up for you when you even. just saying it. He's lovely. He's a. lovely person. He can be He's grumpy. He's He's angry. He's all of those. things, but he's lovely. He really is. He's a lovely person. And I like him. more than anybody else. I mean, I think. that's great, too, because you obviously. love being alone. So, someone who loves. being alone so much, I'm very similar. I. sit here and I perform all day and then. I need to get the [ __ ] home. Don't. [ __ ] talk to me. Don't look at me. And my fiance just knows like, let her.

be alone. But I do appreciate his. company. Which makes me know, oh, I. actually [ __ ] like him. I actually. like you. What was it about him when you. met him that you remember being like, "This man is different." Other than him. pursuing you? Well, it was the fact that. he was kind and that I trusted him. I. trusted him with my feelings because you. know growing up with in between two. waring factors my parents were so ob. obsessed with their own psycho dramas. that it wasn't uh it wasn't a safe place.

for me to feel um uh nurtured you know. like you mentioned that um my father's. weekends with the with my sister and I. uh he was meant to pick us up um at that. morning and we'd sit on the porch porch. and wait for him all day. And when I. mean when I say all day, I mean sitting. on that porch all day. He would never. show up waiting for him. And we'd say, Rozie and I would say, "Next car is.

going to be daddy. Next car is going to. be daddy." We'd do that all day long. And so I I didn't trust my parents with. my feelings. You know, I would, you. know, I would sort of mother with um you. know, joy and bring her up and all that. kind of stuff. So when I met George, I. could tell from the moment I met him. that he was lovely and kind and uh I. could trust him with my feelings, that. he wouldn't hurt my feelings. He has. never hurt my feelings. Never. And my.

mother when I was my mother said to me, "Rue, you're too goddamn sensitive." I. was five years old at the time. Five. Uh. she said she also said, "Rue, you. reminisce too much." And I was five. I'm. I five years of reminiscing. Um but you. know it there was insight into her. because years later as an adult I. learned that she was actually trying to. warn me to not do what she did. And I I. it was very telling about her that she.

was too sensitive and that she. reminisced too much. Interesting. So and. that didn't occur to me. I I only got. that probably 10 years ago where I went, "Oh, that's what that was." So anyway, George was uh so open and not uh. secretive. He was just open. In fact, I. tell this story at one point when we. first started dating, he he asked me,

"Hey, can I floss your teeth?". [ __ ] no, you can't floss my teeth. What? I never heard of it. Why? Why did. he want to flush your Because he wanted. to be that intimate with me. He was It. was, you know, and I never forgot that. because it just it. that someone would want [ __ ] what? But now when you look back on and saying. that, like, how does that make you feel.

when you reflect on him saying that to. you? It makes me feel like he wanted to. be he wanted not only be inside me but. he wanted to be a a part of me. That. that that level of intimacy I had never. experienced before. And uh and it it allowed it it was a. signal to the child who lives inside of. me that. it's okay. You can relax with him. you can relax.

with him. He's not going anywhere. In. fact, we split up at when we got sober. together. We split up. Still couldn't. shake him. Couldn't uh we still called. three times a day and uh ultimately we. did get back together again and uh you. know eventually got married. I want to. go through that too cuz it's a very. breaking up with someone that you then. end up with is rare. I feel like it it. takes a really special bond. But just. going back to what you just said, it's.

so it's so inspiring to see like the. trauma you went through and the partners. you would choose that were replicating. just what you watched with your mother. and father. Then finding George, it's. interesting to see like even the way you. just spoke like you got calmer, it got. more still, you could be yourself. Like. in what ways once you started to engage. in a healthy relationship, how long did. it take you to actually trust and be. yourself? Cuz I'm sure there are people. listening be like, "Rue, I [ __ ] hope.

to God one day get to where you're at.". Like how long did it actually take once. you met him to be like trust? Don't. bring up my old [ __ ] Like don't put on. him what I've done in other. relationships. Like that's a lot of. [ __ ] work. Yeah. No. And look, don't. trust me. I you know I the the the the. beast still came out you know in our. relationship and and my distrust but uh. soon enough you know he would put me at. ease and uh you know it takes time and. you know even the time that we were.

apart. uh we both realized that there's no one. I like more and the chances of me. meeting someone who I felt that. comfortable with and that. much myself with uh is very rare. Very. rare. You know, when we're young, we. think, "Oh, I've got all the choices in. the world." And when you look back, I'm. 63. You look back and you go, um. there were very few few situations where.

uh where people had their had all their. [ __ ] together. Not [ __ ] together, you. know, bank accounts and all that kind of. stuff. I'm not talking about that. but. knew enough about themselves to not. hurt you and and project their own hurt. out at you, you know, which is I think. what uh my parents my parents did. And. you know, and I can forgive them now. There's a book called um toxic parents. that really helped me a lot by Dr. Susan.

forward that really walks walked me. through the steps of of overcoming the. trauma of my parents. I think it's also. incredible because sometimes like we run. away from things that make us feel good. depending on again our trauma of like. this can't be this good. And I think. with George, it's so clear that like. although you were both going through. things, which I do want to talk about, um, with addiction, like you knew at the.

core how you felt around this human. being and that is something that lasts. forever. How someone makes you feel, you. never shake that. And you did break up. Can we talk about that just a little bit. of like how did you decide because it. was mainly you, right, that did decide. like we need to put this on pause? Well, it was it was Mitchell. What happened. was uh uh we had this condo in uh. Florida in Miami that George was redoing.

and I learned that he had been addicted. to crystal meth, which is. the devil. So, um, I put him into rehab. and then brought him to, uh, 12step. program and I went with him to support. him in this 12step program only to. realize this was for me. I need this. And I realized too that I had been. living my uh, fame and and fortune.

through George, vicariously through. George. So I realized that if I am. living through him and he's in this much. trouble, that's how much trouble I'm in. You were living your fame through. George. What do you mean by that? Well, when when at five when I had dissociated. uh and separated, became a a jib, a. camera on a jib, I realized I had not. come back into my body. So, because it.

was not safe, it didn't feel comfortable. for me to feel my feelings. firsthand. Got it. I could feel my. feelings through him. Uh, you know, we, you know, we'd be flying to Dusseldorf. on Elton John's private jet and he'd be. like, "Oh my god, this is great. This is. so I'd be happy because I informed me. we're this is great. This is great." But. I could not feel my feelings firsthand, right? You're like looking for the. outside validation of like what is going.

on here? Like oh this is great. Great. This is great. Sure. For sure. George, what like interesting. Yes. And it. wasn't until I got sober that I was able. to bring my feelings and my camera in. through my own eyes. But when you looked. at George and you recognized he was. addicted to crystal meth, that is also. when you said, "Well, I also have an. addiction problem." Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I I'd always used I'd used I. started using when I was 10 years old. I. started uh smoking weed when I was 10. years. Listen, Alex, it was a different. time. I'm not judging. It was San Diego,

California. It was a different uh thing. It's not like like the way people think. of it today. Do you remember when you. tried your first hard drug? Yes. Um uh I. was probably. 13 and back then there was something. called Red Devils. Uh and I took a red. devil pill. I don't know where I got it. I don't know. But um what what was it. like like what is the effects? I don't. know if I don't remember if it was an.

upper or a downer. I really do not. remember but I do remember it was around. that time. But I was I wasn't uh afraid. of drugs. I never I never shot up or. anything. But uh you know but also the. the big thing was that I never had any. money. So I was at the mercy of whoever. I was around, right? you know, uh, and. then in my 20s, this is I just I shouldn't say this, but. I'm going to. In my 20s, uh, every I.

dropped acid every weekend, uh, throughout my 20s. Every weekend, like. four hits of acid every weekend. Have. you ever dropped acid? I have never done. it. What does it feel like? Well, I'll. tell you. Okay. Um, it's. Well, we're going to Listen, you're an. adult. We're like, "Don't do acid.". Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. It's [ __ ]. incredible. It It's incredible because. it was the It was the It was the um the.

proof I had that this world is an. illusion that everything you think you. know about solid objects or what people. are is a lie. And I I had that I had. that suspicion before I dropped acid. So. when I dropped acid it was like yes this. is exactly and the people who freak out. and I you know I I used to you know drop. it and some people would freak out. You. know what that means? You wear they're. like oh my god right those are the.

people who it never occurred to them. that this is an illusion. From the day I. was born I thought this is an illusion. So the minute you dropped acid you were. like damn right. Yeah. It it it lifts it. lifts the veil of of the illusion, the. fantasy that we're all we collectively. agree to in our lives. Did you like when. you got so famous and you're in New York. and and people know who you are, like.

were you at all ever paranoid that. people were going to be like RuPaul is. like [ __ ] up or there's something you. know what I mean? I do. I was downtown. famous in my 20s, but um I didn't get. world famous until I was 32. 32. And I. had stopped doing chemicals. I just I. was just smoking weed then. And then in. my late30s, uh I was doing a little bit of coke, a. little bit too much coke. Uh but really.

in private with friends, but so I would. never be I would be stoned. I was always. stoned uh from you know uh I was awaken. baker. I'm curious like you're so famous. and how does that make you feel like you. know it's um you know it doesn't feel. any different from when I was 5 years. old and the kids in the neighborhood. said, "Oh, you're a sissy." They they I. was always pointed out. I was always.

singled out and it said, "Huh, you're. something you're something different.". Uh, I didn't know the what the. connotation. I didn't know that was sex. It didn't have a sexual. I thought, "Oh, okay." At, you know, 5 years old. So, but the my point is that I've always. felt uh singled out that there was. something going on with me and I had to. learn to accept that. So, does it feel. any different from uh back then? No, it. doesn't. It feels like I have a a.

purpose that I came here to do and it's. part of it. Cuz I just am curious cuz. knowing. that a lot of performers I think are. introverts that become extroverts on. stage when they're performing. Like I. know a lot of musicians that are like, "Oh my god, [ __ ] when I get on [ __ ]. stage is a complete alter ego." Like. that's not me. I go home and I'm like in. my PJs and makeup off and not focused on. like that persona. But do you ever have. moments or have you ever had a moment in. your career where you've resented the.

persona you've built? No. No. Because I. I take that [ __ ] off. It that's that's a. it's a a a a part of me, but it's not. it's not who I I am. And thankfully, you. know, uh, you know, drag is is so. brilliant because. it's like a it's like a wink wink nudge. nudge at the facade that we were talking. about where where, you know, that that, you know, being on tripping, you know, breaks through that. Drag is an. extension of that wink wink nudge nudge.

And so it's not really to be taken. seriously. It's paint powder. But I. never once thought that's who I am, right? Yeah. It's supposed to be fun. You're supposed to enjoy it. Absolutely. People take [ __ ] too [ __ ] seriously. They take stuff too seriously. They read. into it too much. Like it's not that. deep. It's not that deep. It's really. not. You know, I want to circle back. just to conclude that conversation about. George. Like the book kind of ends like. you're not really together. And I. thought that was such an interesting.

stylistic choice of like why how did you. decide to end it like that? because it. was the. real the death of my old self and this. has been the rebirth of my life. This is. this is a whole other book. This part, you know, in this business, if you get. seven years in this business, you've. done great. Fabulous. Great. But for me.

to have the opportunity to have another. bite of the apple. uh because I got my [ __ ] together. Amazing. So, that's a whole other story. So, you know, ending it ending it uh at. my getting sober was uh felt like the. natural place. And I feel like from what. I've read and looked up, like you and. George are pretty like notoriously. private people together with your. relationship. Like how did you decide. and did you talk to him about that you. were going to write about these like.

pretty intimate details of your lives? Uh he doesn't give like [ __ ] just go. just right. No, but uh they were, you. know, going on this book tour and the. the people were saying, "Hey, um we've. got some seats set aside for George. Uh. do you want He doesn't want to go to. that. He doesn't care about that. Stop. I love it. He doesn't know who any pop. stars are. He doesn't He doesn't care. He don't care. So refreshing, though. He. does not care." But that must be nice. for your life. Oh yeah. Right. To come. home to someone that's literally like, I.

don't care. Yeah. No, he doesn't give a. [ __ ] about You're like, "Babe, guess. what I did today." He's like, "I care. what you did, but I don't actually care. who was in the room." You're like, "Bye. was there." He's like, "Huh?" Now, he. might know who Beyonce is. He knows who. she is. He would care. Let's see. Um, who would he care about? Uh, he loves. Artha Franklin. Of course, she's dead. now. Of course. Yeah, she's she can't. walk in the room. But, uh, actually, he. went with me. He Thank God he was with. me. In 1995, he went with me to Detroit. I performed at Artha Franklin's birthday.

party and um we were in the and her. assistant came in with the check for me. that she had written for my payment go. this is before I went on stage and the. check was written out to Ruth Paul. signed Artha Franklin Ruth Paul and of. course I couldn't keep it I wanted to. keep but thank god George was there with. me so he could see it so that it wasn't. I didn't dream this up it's really They. took the check back and wrote it out to.

Rubal. But um. Oh my god. But so he met her. Yes. So he. hasn't been stunned since 1995. Like [ __ ] George hasn't lived since. 1995. He hasn't felt something. I know. I'm trying to think who he would be. starruck by. He wouldn't be starruck by. any he, you know, this sounds weird. um. like I'm trying to gain him points, but. he is more starruck by animals and he. knows the name of every flower and he.

knows the name of every animal like what. they what they are. He knows the breed. of every dog. So he uh and and you know. he children gravitate toward he's that. person. Why do we give a [ __ ] about. celebrities anymore? I want to know. dogs, animals, the flowers, the insects. Let's go, George. Well, don't get me. wrong, listen, he's got his faults. He's. got his faults. You mentioned drag and. it's just it is so incredible to have a. show on its 16th season.

That's kind of unheard of. Like there's. very few shows in the world that like go. that long. Do you remember the beginning. days? I do. Like what does it make you. think to like look at this empire that. you've built? Like you just must be so. proud. I am very proud. And I'm I'm most. most proud of uh the contestants who. have come through there who are so. lovely and so courageous to allow their. stories to be told and to share those. stories of courage with people around. the world. What do you think is the.

biggest misconception about drag? Oh, I don't know. You know, I stopped. trying to figure out what people think. or try to make put any credence on what. other people think. People are are. crazy. People are weird. I remember you. said that in the beginning of this. interview and I'm like that feels like. that's the episode title. People are. weird. Well, you know, when when you. free yourself from that, when you know, my mother said, "If they ain't paying. you bills, pay them [ __ ] no mine.". Or, you know, what other people think of.

me is none of my business. When you free. yourself of that, it leaves so much room. for your own frequency to to resonate. and and transmit through you because. that that kind of thinking of what other. people think of you takes up so much. space. It's exhausting. It's exhausting. We don't have time. There's no time. And. you know when I when I hit 30 I realized. the biggest lesson I got when I was. turned 30 was I don't have to like. everyone and everyone doesn't have to.

like me. Amen. Like we're so [ __ ] Some people are so. pressed being like they don't understand. me. They don't like who [ __ ] cares. Do you know you? Do you understand you? Does your family friends or whoever the. [ __ ] you give a [ __ ] about know you? Done. There you go. You're going to. exhaust yourself. You're not even going. to know who you are by the end if you're. trying to appease every [ __ ] person. And especially with the internet, you. got [ __ ] in [ __ ] Kansas saying. you're a [ __ ] loser. Who cares? Yeah. Yeah. And if you had X-ray eyes to see.

where that [ __ ] in Kansas was, that. [ __ ] is in a basement uh with a big. with internet, but in a basement. nonetheless. They've got Wi-Fi. Their. mother's basement, right? Their mother's. basement, the mother's Wi-Fi, and. they're in keyword warrior. Like, you're. a [ __ ] loser. Shut up, [ __ ] in. Kansas. God, we're done with you. [ __ ]. I can't take these [ __ ] Um, okay. You write in your book, you're born. naked and the rest is drag. What do you. mean by that? So, you are born naked.

So, that concept allows you to create. Yeah. Uh, whatever life you want. You. are a co-creator with whatever the. source is. I mean, some people say God, some people say whatever. Whatever you. choose to be the source, you are a. co-creator with that. That's a lot of. responsibility. It is a lot but it's. also it is exciting if you look at it in. the right way like we do have for the. most part autonomy over ourselves sort.

of sort of we don't need to get into the. laws going right now [ __ ] yourselves but. you know it is exciting to know you can. control yourself and I think sometimes. we get a little in the clouds and we. start to look around us too much where. it's like why are you trying to be like. that person that person that person, why. are you trying to pee? What do you want? Yeah. And I don't think we ask ourselves. that enough because I don't think we're. taught it. Like you said at the be in. the middle of this interview, you were. like, "My mom told me like, stop being.

emotional, ruin, stop doing this." But. it was all again projection from your. mother. It's like, well, maybe the most. beautiful part of you is that you're. emotional. Sure, maybe you should lean. into that. What do you want? And I think. we can take from this especially just. like live the way that you want to live. and block out as much noise as you. possibly can. It's hard, but when you do. it, there is some peace and quiet that. you can find within yourself. It is. hard. And and of course, it all roads. lead to are you willing to. be in this moment with yourself, which.

is a tall order because the first thing. you would recognize if you did that was. how much pain you're in. So again, you. have to walk through that fire, which is. painful uh to get to your true self. because a lot of us, we sweep the. emotions. In my case, I disassociate it. with myself. We sweep a lot of the our. feelings under the rug. Uh I did that. with drugs and alcohol until I had to. pay the bill. And when you look at the. bill, you're like, "What? [ __ ] It's big. and long." Wait, who ordered the pelro?

What does the pelgrino stand for in your. life, R? What does it symbolize? You. know, and you So, you have to it you. literally have to go through all of the. stuff that you sh you put away before. you can move forward. So that's why uh. most people don't accept the challenge. of creating the life they were meant to. have. Most people, you know, go with. plan A or plan B. And a lot of times, I. think because um plan A or plan B.

doesn't really fit your needs, you will. use drugs and alcohol to numb the pain. That's what we're all I mean, we're a. culture of addicts. We're all addicted. to something. But imagine if we were taught how to. process those feelings. I use drugs and. alcohols to process to deal with. feelings I didn't know how to process. until eventually I did learn how to. process those feelings. Imagine a world. a culture of people who could do that.

When we're able to do that, I think the. amount of like peace. and unity that will come from all. different walks of life and all. different backgrounds, we're so [ __ ]. far from that. But you're so right. It's. like we're not taught to process. So, we're angry and we're miserable and. we're anxious and we're insecure and we. are lost. And I appreciate you coming on. today and just talking through this. because I do I think it's so inspiring. for people listening. The way you talk.

about your memoir being almost like this. other part of you that now is put to bed. and there's now a complete new book. basically that's being created right now. as you're sitting here and the way. you're living your life. I think we need. to start to look at ourselves that way. of like you can have been many different. people in your life and it doesn't. define you. It's part of you, but I. think every new chapter is on you to. decide how it's going to be written. So, I hope this was fun. It was fun. Did it.

get better? No, it's it's actually it. was a lot of fun. And I love what you're. saying there because what the truth is. it's about the uh the crucifixion and. the resurrection. And once you're able. to be reborn into your higher self, that's when the party really begins. And. that's why I feel like this the the. party uh for me, you know, when I got. sober uh really started, you know, and I. needed to put that first part to bed.

And that's what The House of Hidden. Meanings is about. It's incredible. Everyone, please go read it. And. congratulations to you because it is so. cool to see like I love that you did a. memoir where it stops at 1999. basically like 2000 something like that. And and now it's like what's next? Love. it. Rupaul, thank you so much for coming. on Call Daddy. It truly was a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you.