Rachael Kirkconnell: I Was Blindsided (Full Episode)

[Music]. what is up daddy gang it is your. Founding Father Alex Cooper with call. her. daddy Rachel konell welcome to call her. Daddy thank you. obviously you're going through a very. very public breakup right now it's like. not under the best circumstances that. we're sitting down together I think it. was a shock to the world we're going to. find out today if it was a shock to you. but just like overall how are you doing. right now um it's different every day.

I'm doing. okay I would say some days are better. than others like one day I'm like. feeling kind of empowered I'm like you. know what yeah it's okay like I'm. excited to be on my own and then the. next day I like can barely get out of. bed and I just miss him and I'm sad. about. everything um so yeah just comes and. goes it's different every day I think. that like why I especially want to talk. to you today and what we're going to get. into though is like even you just saying.

that is so relatable like probably. everyone watching this has been through. a breakup and a breakup is like not. linear where you're like one day like oh. my God I'm perfect again so like I I. appreciate you being honest because. breakups are so emotionally devastating. and hard especially if you're the one. getting broken up with I obviously want. to talk to you about everything that's. happened but first I do think it's kind. of important we just kind of go back to. like when you met Matt on The Bachelor. why did you want to go on that show oh.

my gosh it's actually a funny story I. didn't want to go on the show okay did. not sign myself up for the show my. friends nominated me and they didn't. tell me that they nominated me I think. they put in just some you know the fil. filled out the online thing and uh I got. a call I was grocery shopping it was. like middle of Co so I'm getting this. call from a random La number and I'm.

like that's so weird like who's trying. to reach out to me right now from LA but. I was grocery shopping so didn't answer. got a text from the same phone number. didn't open the text I was like this I I. thought it was like a job I was applying. for jobs everywhere it was like one of. those things where it was like you know. I don't think anyone knew what was going. on in the world so I just was seeing. what could happen um and so I thought it. was a job getting back to me and then I. got a voicemail so then I'm like oh my. gosh I need to call the these people.

back if like they're actually you know. trying to set up an interview with me or. something so I get to my car and I um. immediately listen to the voicemail and. it's someone from The Bachelor saying. they received an application from me I. thought it was a joke I thought it was a. prank I text my friends I'm like who did. this like what's going on so three of my. friends started freaking out and they're. like oh my gosh we filled out an. application for you like months ago so. it's real you know I didn't think it was. an actual thing um and at first I was.

like I'm not doing that I'm going to be. the villain or I'm going to be like one. of the Crazy Girls I didn't know how it. worked so I was like I'm going to be I. don't know just not it's not going to go. well for me so at first I was like no. I'm not doing that that sounds crazy um. and then I did have a call with them and. they were like you know what just go. with the process and just see like my. friends were like just see what they. even want from you like I just want to. see the ins and outs I was like okay so.

I started doing interviews and I still. was like really nervous about it really. not feeling it but it was Co and it was. just like a let's just see where this. goes then they announced Matt in June I. think as a bachelor and that's when I. was like wait okay he's very very. attractive he seems like a great guy and. I would love to get to meet him yeah so. that's when I was like okay actually. this would be really fun if given the. opportunity and I don't think any of us.

found out I think like two weeks before. we had to fly out we got like the okay. if we were on the show or not so I had. two weeks to like decide if I wanted to. do it get all my [ __ ] together and you. know wait why do you think your friends. applied you like were had you come out. of a breakup were you chronically single. like what was your Vibe um I think at. the time a lot of my friends were in. relationships and I wasn't um and my. friend friends love or loved the show I.

don't know if they really watch so much. now but at the time loved the bachelor I. think it it just um Who season I think. it was pilot Pete's season right before. my God and it was a [ __ ] show it was. great TV you know so that was like Peak. Bachelor I would say my god um so my. friends were like we need to get one of. our friends on this show and I mean it. was like me and I think two other girls. in our group were single and they just. were like we need to apply Rachel we. think she'd be great had you been in a.

serious relationship before The Bachelor. honestly not like an adult like serious. relationship I think my last. relationship was a year before that it. was about 6 months and it was with like. one of my best friends growing up we. were just always like you know had. feelings for each other so we gave it a. shot and it just was one of those things. where we probably should have just. stayed friends classic um and it wasn't. even him it was just more so me like I. was just going through a a hard time or.

a weird time in my life and I was like I. don't need to be in this relationship. especially with like one of my best. friends and now to this day our. relationship's weird but that's like the. worst when I have people write in all. the time and they're like should I go. for my friend and I'm like my advice is. just prepare that it will never be the. same so but I also like commend you for. like going for it cuz then also you then. the other side is you always have the. what if like would we have been perfect. so I guess like like hearing that though.

like was there any part of you knowing. how the bachelor works that you were. nervous at all that like this is. something that ends in engagement after. a couple weeks of knowing someone I. think like it was one of those things. where I couldn't even believe it was. happening couldn't even believe that I. kept making it through these interviews. and that I got the call and that they. actually wanted me on the show um I feel. like I don't know I told myself like I'm. kind of boring like I know if I would be.

good TV for this show I guess I was. confused why they wanted me on the show. yeah um and so I think the whole time. even when I got there I'll never forget. walking the very first night walking out. of my hotel room and. seeing one of the girls she's so. stunning so perfect her name's Sarah um. I saw her and I was like I'm screwed. like all of these girls are so stunning. gorgeous seemed perfect and I just was.

wondering like why I was there really. and then it got to the point where I was. like well I guess like I just hope I. make it past this first night so I never. I guess I didn't really think too much. about an engagement only because I. didn't think I would ever get that far I. think that makes sense and I don't like. I think sometimes with the bachelor too. like people would be like so you weren't. going in for an engagement like I don't. think anyone goes in with that head. space I think it's kind of more your. situation where you're like I'm throwing. throwing myself into this situation.

there's no way I'm going to end up at. the end and well there was like 40 girls. on our season to right so I'm like what. are the odds out of 40 plus or you know. 36 to 40. girls why would he pick me I don't know. I I was like there's just no way that. out of all these women that he would be. interested in me of. all what was your first impression like. in person of Matt when you met him um I. don't want to say like love at first. sight but definitely just like total.

infatuation like right off the bat I. feel like we had a connection. immediately and it's funny though cuz. I'm sure all the girls say that when. they first get in like we clicked or we. sparked or whatever but I think he would. agree with that that we both just felt a. connection immediately and it felt very. comfortable and. um like we were just talking to each. other like there weren't a million. cameras and people around we were.

talking about like Waffle House and you. know just stupid things that they. probably were angry that we were. chatting about cuz they were like this. is not good TV right they're like let's. ramp it up like either make out or get. in a fight and you guys like boat wles. and that was like that was like every. conversation we had was just like we. were just talking about stupid stuff. that wasn't good for TV but to us it was. just natural normal fun easy. conversation yeah it's like the real. [ __ ] in life like it's not going to be. all glamour once you guys leave you guys.

may be literally going to waful house. and like you'll want to be chilling the. show is like they're like tell us your. deepest darkest secrets in your trauma. you know and it's like I'm sure you. you'll get there eventually but I'm not. going to like tell someone that two. minutes into knowing them I guess you. know so what was the moment that like. really made you realize like oh my God. I'm fully falling in love with this. guy I think it was. like right. before our one-on-one I didn't get a. one-on one until like the fifth week of.

filming I was pretty late in the game to. get a. one-on-one um and I don't know just like. what little time we would have. together it was just so easy and I. hadn't like clicked or just sparked with. someone like that maybe ever in my life. just like right off the bat just like so. into each other you know um and then it. was definitely like solidified on our.

one-on-one we spent the whole day. together and I was like okay I can. really see myself with this person and. you always have to ask yourself like is. this bubble of is this just infatuation. because we're in like this romantic. setting and we're getting you know all. this incredible treatment and you're. literally in a fairy tale so it's easy. to fall in love or fall hard in that. situation but even. with all of that like knowing that was.

in my head thinking about it I still. felt like no this is real yeah like you. knew if we step outside of this I still. feel like no matter if anything like. there's a chance you were excited to get. out of that to like live real life guys. by the end right um obviously your guys. season ended pretty unconventionally you. got the final Rose but Matt didn't. propose how did you feel about that. decision so you know like I said at. first engagement wasn't easy.

even in the back of my mind like I just. wasn't even thinking that was ever. something that would happen to me but. then I think when we finally told each. other we were falling in love with each. other on our one-on-one I was like all. right this could be a very big. possibility now so it's definitely. something that I have to think about but. it was one of those things where it felt. like it was out of my control because I. still I wasn't the one handing out Rose. at theend end of the day so it was one.

of those things where I told myself like. if we do make it to the end of this and. he proposes to me of course I would say. yes um the proposals on The Bachelor are. just interesting because I think you've. seen plenty of. couples I think you've seen plenty of. couples repr propose and say like this. is the actual engagement and I'm not. saying that the engagements aren't real. on the show but I think now having been. through it all it would be so crazy to.

get engaged with someone you barely knew. yeah and you've only known each other. for a few weeks and so I was totally. okay with that we had a conversation off. camera okay about not getting engaged I. knew that was coming okay I didn't know. if the show would convince him that he. needed to do it or that he realized he. should do it so I told myself like if it. w if it were to happen I would say yes. but I didn't expect it to happen so you.

were like fully on the same page like. it's okay if he doesn't propose like if. anything you're having conversations off. camera and he did he come to you and be. like hey I like what was that. conversation like so that was during. Fantasy Suites that's like the most time. you get off camera. so we were just talking about what that. final day would look. like and I think that we were both. worried about production having like. little tricks up there sleeve.

um which ended up you know us not. getting our final date. and I remember Chris Harrison showing up. to my door telling me that Matt's really. confused and he doesn't want to see me. and at first I'm laughing because I'm. like this is so you guys this is not him. but then I have a meltdown because I'm. like well whoever it is I don't get my. last date now and you know we don't get. like our last moment together before all. of this ends and now I'm going into to. this proposal feeling terrible and.

feeling very insecure and just weird. about the whole thing like it was a. really heavy feeling on the. day um but I knew yeah I mean as soon as. he said he couldn't propose it was one. of those things where I was like not. disappointed but I just. was thinking like okay you're not. proposing but are we still going to be. together I guess I was like what's true. what's not true are you about to break. up with me are you about to leave like. are we about to not be together or do. you still want to be with me so then.

when he was like I still want to be with. you I want to try this out in the real. world I was excited but the rest of the. felt like they were literally breaking. down the set as we were still doing like. our final they were done they were like. waste of a SE yeah they were just I felt. like a failure like cuz they didn't get. an engagement out of it I'm dying. they're literally breaking it down. they're like [ __ ] you guys we wanted him. down on one knee but what I do like I. think a lot of people respect about that. is like we've all seen like people on.

social media now and everything is like. less romanticized as maybe it was back. in the day because of social media we. get kind of like glimpses behind the. scene of like what actually reality TV. is not so reality in moments but I do. think there was a level of respect maybe. people had of like wow if anything maybe. that means he and her will actually work. out because they're literally going to. do even more work off camera now rather. than we have seen couples be like yay. and then they like don't even last two. weeks past it so I I think that there.

was a sentiment of like maybe he is more. real for making that decision in the. beginning well that's what I thought at. the time like when we're having that. conversation off camera I'm thinking. like wow he's so levelheaded and I love. the idea of like us one day getting. engaged for us and not for an audience. and not for people that like won't care. in a week or two yeah obviously then you. guys film and then as the show was. airing some controversial photos of you. came to light and during the final.

episode Matt basically made it pretty. clear like he was going to take a step. back from the. relationship what was really going on. with you guys I think that he felt so. much pressure with just how the state of. the world was or the state that the. world was in at the time with black. lives matter and that was the year after. George Floyd and it was like just such a. heavy heavy topic in our country at the.

time and then of course all of the. controversy within the show did not help. and I think he felt so much pressure to. just make the right decision and to. stand by what was right for him at the. time and you know strangers and people. that were really close to him in his. life were saying like I don't think you. should be with her and so I think at the. time he thought that was the right. decision just to take a step back.

and yeah not not be together how did you. feel about all that and like how was it. articulated to you it hurt because it. felt like he was doing it for others and. not for himself it felt like he didn't. want to not be with me and he did want. to be with me but he just felt so much. pressure from everyone yeah to not be. with me and so even to this day like I.

think a lot of people have a lot of. opinions on that like what was the right. decision if he should have stood by me. or not and I never held that over his. head I never will hold that over his. head because I don't know how he felt in. that situation and I never will. understand and. um I know that he thought he was making. the right choice and the right decision. and I'll stand by him you know forever. with that it that was okay as much as it.

hurt it was yeah one of those things. where I'm like you know what you do need. to do what's best for you in the. situation and I understand so you guys. end but was it like we're going to take. a break but we're still going to talk. were you guys like completely done like. did you think this relationship is. completely over like what were the next. steps after that kind of ended so I was. definitely shocked when he broke up with. me only because we were very happy. together even with all of the chaos.

around us when it was just me and him. behind closed doors it was amazing it. was so much fun we were so happy when we. decided to not let the outside noise get. to us. um. so I don't know it was one of those. things where we broke up and he said. we're broken up but we did still talk. like every single day I think we went. like a few days without talking at first.

when we first broke up um and then after. that it was one of those things where we. just started slowly speaking again and. it was one of those things for me where. I was like are you happy like are you. happy with this decision like do you. think that you'll be okay moving forward. without you know at least just seeing if. this is real like we both think it is. yeah and um yeah we slowly just started. talking again. and I think after the final episode.

aired. and there was a big group that was mad. that we weren't together like there was. of course the people that were like you. know good job yes shouldn't be with her. but then there was this group after the. finale cuz there was a lot of. speculation but no one was 100% sure if. we weren't together or not until he said. on the show. so I think when we saw how many people. were like like you should just be.

together like what the. heck I think we both had to sit down and. have this conversation of like okay. let's put all of this outside noise. aside let's put everyone aside what do. we want like how do we feel and we just. came to the conclusion that we really do. love each other and we really do want to. make this work or at least give it a. chance like let's give it a fair chance. even with all the. craziness and we did and it was great. even with I mean I think that year was. hard but I was going to say like I think.

I remember like seeing things on. um me chronically online Reality Steve. I'm like how do I even know that name. but I remember like when you guys were. kind of in what seems like this in. between like I was going to ask like. were you talking to other people was he. talking to other people like did you. guys have an agreement like it's okay if. we hook up with other people like what. was the we never really discussed that I. think like I was I was barely getting.

out of bed let alone dating other people. like I was just so not okay and I just. wanted to be with him to where. dating that was just like so out of the. question for me like that wasn't even a. thought I had in the back of my mind and. I felt like when we were. talking we never discussed it but I felt. like things that he said and you know us. talking every day it it seemed like he. wasn't.

either but that was not the case he. definitely was and that's okay cuz we. were broken up I just wish I knew yeah. because I found out I found out via. Reality Steve well he contacted my um. well now she's my sister-in-law but she. or Reality Steve contacted my brother's. girlfriend at the time and she told me. um and I was with Matt what did he say. so he basically said that there was a. girl that reached out to him saying like.

you know Matt and me have been speaking. he's been trying to get me to come over. and hang out and um I just saw that him. and Rachel were seen together in New. York when he was literally just trying. to hang out with me like two days prior. and I don't think she knows so I just. want her to know and so I was given that. information. and I was just I was really really upset. just because I felt. like it was defitely kept a secret from. me he technically didn't lie cuz I never.

asked but at the same time I never would. have well maybe he did lie a little bit. now I'm trying to think about it maybe. there were some lies in there cuz I was. very very very upset when I found. everything out and I just remember. telling him that he lied to me yeah so. with all of that I just remember. storming out of his place and I was like. don't ever talk to me again like we're. done cuz I just found out a lot of stuff. all at once Mon and yeah I just was.

definitely a little Bamboozled for sure. so then like we go another week without. talking. and long story short he ends up being in. Atlanta for work and I'm at my friend's. apartment and the hotel they put him in. is right next to my friend's apartment. like could throw a rock at it you know. and um yeah I think he saw my location. he saw it was was like literally 100 ft. from him and he was like I understand.

you probably don't ever want to talk to. me again but can we meet just so I can. apologize and just you know share my. side of things and I said yes and we sat. in my car I wouldn't let him come up. their apartment classic so I I met him. downstairs and we sat in my car and. talked for like 6 hours just sitting in. the parking garage um and you know he. explained everything everything I heard. him.

out and. um it was just one of those things where. he was like just give me a chance I'm. sorry and I do love you and I do want to. be with you and I'm done you know. playing these games like let's give this. a real shot let's get back together so I. said okay I gave him the chance because. I loved him when you got back together. coming off of that coming off of the. dynamic on The Bachelor like. did you have a hard time trusting.

him th%. so I told myself like he has a lot to. move on from with me and then I have a. lot to move on from with him so we both. need to decide like if we really do want. to be together we need to forgive and. move on and um I think that's a lot. easier said than. done um I just was really insecure the. first year of our. relationship I think it.

was everything that happened of course. but also that power Dynamic like him. being the lead of you know a dating show. and me just being a contestant and yeah. I felt like there was always that that. just not imbalance of power but it. definitely felt like he was like the. star and I was just you know his little. like groupy or something and it it's not. like anything he did it was just I think.

that probably every couple that comes. from the show might have a little bit of. difficulty in that area of like you know. you were this person that 40 women were. fighting over and that everyone's. obsessed with and then I'm just you know. some girl that's how it felt yeah and so. and then even yeah going out publicly it. seemed like I told told myself that the. world hated me that everyone hated me.

but everyone loved him and so I feel. like when we would go out it'd be like. oh Matt James and Rachel like I don't. know and I don't know if that was in my. head or not but that's just how it felt. yeah so I definitely felt and it was one. of those things where I'm like he could. get anyone he could have anyone like why. is he with me and so when he would go do. things without me I'd be like there's. probably like someone hotter and cooler. and more fun than me hitting on him. right now and like why is he even with. me. yeah just really really.

insecure I felt. like I had a hard time trusting him. because of what was happening when we. were apart okay and that girl coming to. Reality Steve and everything I'm just. like yeah asking myself like are you. still doing this. but I know to this day like and I even. see this online now he's not a cheater. you know he I. never actually had to worry about him. cheating on me cuz technically if he was. ever with other women we were apart so I.

can't you know call him a cheater or. worry about him cheating on me was that. the only time that you guys were part. when he was with another woman or was. there yeah okay yeah so the whole so. from your understanding the four years. of your relationship he was faithful to. you yes I think I see a lot of that. right now cuz I reposted a funny video. on Tik Tok of like some girl I don't. know doing something to her best. friend's ex-boyfriend so now everyone's. thinking that there was but that was. before we even broke up so so the first.

year was difficult but then there's. three years to come that and again you. can correct me if I'm wrong but like. seemed like you guys were so happy every. time I opened Instagram you guys were in. a new city or a new country and you were. trying different foods and you were you. know being thrown into these beautiful. other cultures and experiences and it. just felt like you guys were on this. Whirlwind together like. how did that lifestyle of just.

constantly going and traveling together. feel I think at first it was so it was. so fun like I I couldn't believe that my. life was what it was you know I just. went from being this normal person to. going on this crazy dating show actually. falling in love being with the guy and. then we doing these really fun. experiences that I would have never done. otherwise so was so much fun um even.

through like all the insecurities and. everything but I think for the first. like two years it was just fun dating. not really too worried. about like a proposal and marriage I. mean we definitely always had those. conversations but I don't think either. of us were in a rush yet like I think. those first few years it felt like a. normal relationship yeah you know when. you I think in like the real world.

dating for a few years without an. proposal or marriage is normal yes so. that's what we were both telling. ourselves like we just want to have the. most normal relationship possible. because it definitely started out very. unconventionally and it still is crazy. just having you know strangers care. about your relationship it's great. sometimes but yeah other times it's a. lot so it was just um really not it was.

I hate saying it wasn't too serious but. it was just more fun and really getting. to know each other and just dating and. then I think like last. year the our third year well I guess. that was two years ago now yeah so I. guess our third year of dating was when. I started. to just ask like okay so where is this. going like what I didn't ever want a. timeline of things I never wanted to.

know like when a proposal was coming I. think like some girls these days like. they want to know when it's coming they. want to pick the ring out they want to. pick their outfit out and I always told. him like I don't want to know anything I. want to be so shocked so. surprised um but I do want to know that. that's where your head's at and that. we're on the same page so and what would. he say he seemed like he was on the same. page like that's why it's try not to cry.

it's. okay it was. like just confusing to look back on now. because when we would talk about. things he always seemed like he was on. the same. page privately and publicly um you know. whether we were doing interviews or. whether he was replying to people in. comments um like talking about getting. married and everything like that so yeah.

I guess it's just hard to think about. it's just one of those things that you. replay a lot over and over. again um because the words were there. and you know us talking about taking the. next steps all of that was fine but you. know the actions obviously weren't there. I was going to say like from my. understanding obviously you spent four. years together but. you never lived together no so like that.

was another thing. he said that he didn't want to live. together until we were married and he's. a very religious man so I was like. that's okay I can do that but at the. same time I'm a little confused because. we're. still you know traveling together. staying in the same hotel and and it was. like we were living together like half. of his stuff is still at my place in. Georgia right now um but he always had.

an apartment in Miami or New York so we. were either in New York Miami or in. Atlanta and I think at the time I just. didn't worry about it too much because. it was fun I feel like whenever we would. talk about our life we would say like we. want multiple homes anyways like to be. or just you know yeah a little space. here and there like a home home. somewhere but it' be fun to have to keep. the apartment in Miami or keep the. apartment in New York and so I think.

that I was making excuses for it because. it was one of those things. where we were saying that that was going. to be our life anyway. so I guess I just didn't think too much. on it but I also think it was me trying. to justify it just because I didn't want. to worry like well is this like fear of. like you know taking the next steps you. know of course you don't want to admit. that to yourself yeah so now yeah. looking back on it maybe that's is what. it was but did you.

have any friends or your family be like. Rachel how are you guys not living. together yet no only cu the religious. yeah well it was like we basically did. lived together at least in. Georgia it was like our house like. that's where home base was for us I. would say like that's where most of his. stuff was that's obviously where all my. stuff is and whenever we weren't. traveling that's where we would be okay. so it did feel like we were living. together but at the end of the day it.

was my. place I don't know yeah so it was just. one of those things were looking back. probably that was probably a red flag. but I just tried to tell myself that it. was okay when you say that you guys. talked about engagement do you mind. sharing just like how detailed did you. guys get like did you talk about how. many kids did you talk about where you. like can you share yeah um I honestly. think we talked about family and kids. more than anything which is.

like that sucks more than anything I. think cuz I think when you picture your. life or you have an idea of what it's. going to look like and now I'm like I. have no idea what life looks like from. here on out. and yeah it's sad. to like think about these I'm trying not. to laugh at myself but like yeah I'm. like picturing these kids that are.

obviously like no longer a thing which. like kind of sounds crazy I'm not trying. to sound like an insane person but you. don't sound crazy that's yeah that's. probably like one of the saddest things. about it. is just picturing your life with someone. and thinking like that is how your. life's going to look and then now it's. just all taken. away. but yeah we we talked about Rings he. told me a few few months ago to start. you know saving some things picking.

things out or that we should go look at. some and um that was a big deal I would. say for him to say that's when I was. like wow okay he really is like on board. with this like that was such a a green. flag to me and I felt like the longer we. were together the more he was able to. talk about it. and I think at first I could tell it was. something that did scare him a lot or it. was like a really hard thing for him to.

to talk about and it just seemed easier. and easier as our relationship went on. so I felt like that was a good sign yeah. um and yeah I don't know I just I think. when he started talking about kids and. picking out a ring and wedding food and. where we want the wedding like stuff. like. that um I used those things to just hold. on if that makes sense like I don't know. if there were any actions following.

those things but when you're told these. things you just like want to hold on to. them when you look back at those. conversations do you see any like. patterns or themes of like when he would. engage in it like was it when you were. like you know what I mean like was there. any like him engaging being like I want. you to be the mother of my children like. I want to have a wedding like do you did. you ever see a. pattern um I definitely would I'm sure I.

would bring it up. more but it wouldn't ever be in like a. pressure kind of way it would just like. come naturally in a conversation but he. seemed more than happy to to talk about. things too and I I don't know it wasn't. like a pattern. of I think for at the end of the day. when I think about things like the words. were there but the C weren't yeah like. they they weren't matching so he would.

say these things but then okay well what. are we what are you doing to get to this. if that makes sense like what are we. doing actively. to have an engagement and plan a wedding. and all of this stuff you know like you. said that we can go look at rings but. okay is that going to happen you know CU. it was one of those things where I was. like okay he said that but I'm going to. see I'm going to let him. bring it back up if he meant it you know.

that's tough mhm cuz from what I'm. hearing from you too it's like you're. again kind of like waiting for him to. engage in some capacity and it's like. kind of on his terms and it's I'm like. that I'm that's really hard I'm sorry. because it's hard to break then that. pattern of like when someone is kind of. the one in control to get to just. feeling like we're in a partnership and. it's not me kind of like tiptoeing and. seeing if you're interested like it's.

hard to break that mhm cycle yeah it's. just it's it's such a weird thing to. begin with because at the end of the day. like it's mostly men who propose yeah. like it's of course different for. everyone these days but everyone's like. yeah she's on his timeline she's on his. timeline I'm like sitting here I'm like. what am I supposed to do like I don't. know it it's one of those things where. at the end of the day he's the one that. needs to get down yeah on a knee I think. in a beautiful way and this is what I.

know we're about to get there but like. just cutting to the other side of it for. you is like I've been there where I felt. the same exact way where I was like weit. he talks about the house in Westchester. with me and we're like together but I. still like nothing has happened yet like. I can tell you. now having a partner that it does feel. super like 5050 and everything with my. husband like I.

wasn't surprised at all. when oh my God his name is Matt too F. when Matt but like when Matt would like. bring things up about future or like. let's go ring shopping together like. where in previous relationships I was. and I think I recognized cuz I had never. had it which I'm like hopeful for you to. experience of like it was we were so in. lock step that I could have gotten down.

on one knee you know what I mean and. like I like so I think I get what you're. saying and I think a lot of women. experien this where like we condition. ourselves to believe like it well it is. his decision at the end of the day and I. think unfortunately like that's not how. it should be yes the gesture for him. physically getting on the knee is so. romantic and fun but like you should. still have a say in whether it's going. to happen or not and not have to wait. for someone yeah to do that for you and.

I think a lot of women are going to be. sitting listening to this interview. being like [ __ ] Rachel like there may be. women listening to this that are. realizing right now Rachel like they're. in the same situation as you is like he. keeps saying these things the words are. there the actions aren't yeah. um I'm curious like over the course of. your relationship we're talking about. engagement we're talking about a wedding. did Matt ever express any doubts about. your guys future together I think there. were times in our relationship.

where I don't want to say he seemed. scared but I think that he felt the. weight of marriage really heavily on him. and I think that's for him to discuss. like why he felt like that um I. never knew if it was cuz there was. something wrong with me or like not. wrong with me I keep trying to tell. myself that there's nothing wrong with. me even though like of course it feels.

like it sometimes. but I ask myself like is it me or is it. him like is it something that he needs. to figure out you know is there. something that scares him is there. something that he went through growing. up that you know he has this trauma now. or am I just not like his perfect person. um. so I would just.

say I still don't know I think like time. will tell and I think that he'll have. to answer that and figure that out. but obviously every couple like has. their problems like no couple is perfect. um for you and Matt like what would. typically trigger an. argument we really. didn't argue a lot. um when we would argue it would more so.

be like someone did something to piss. the other person off and. then I don't know it was like we both I. guess we were both pretty stubborn so we. both thought that we were in the right. and that they were in the wrong and we. just had a hard time seeing eye to eye. sometimes like I was always trying to. remind him sorry I was always trying to. remind. him.

that we are on the same side and the. problem is the problem like we're we're. arguing like this when it should be like. okay we're a team here's the issue how. can we fix this together um it was. either that or it was just acting out. of like in the moment acting out of. anger and not meaning things so then it. was one of those things where I was like. okay if we're ever annoyed or irritated. let's just you know take a breather.

let's not talk for a second and really. try to figure out what the actual. problem is like where this Anger steming. from and then we can discuss it was. there someone in the relationship that. would like apologize first more often. this is what's crazy is I feel like I. was apologizing a lot even if I was the. one that was mad about something. we would sit down and I'd be like I'm. annoyed about this and then at the end.

of the conversation I would be the one. that would be saying sorry and I started. feeling crazy. but at the end of the relationship he. basically said that I. have a hard time taking accountability. and apologizing and I'm sitting here I'm. like I'm going crazy because I feel like. I do say sorry a lot for things that I'm. not even like sure what I'm saying sorry. for you know but that's maybe that was. his argument that I wasn't understanding.

I think that we just had no Rachel Hard. Times understanding where we were each. coming from and now I still feel crazy. you know I'm like I first of all you're. not crazy and what you just said one of. my really close friends just went. through where she was like I'm always. the one having to take accountability. and he's getting so mad at me if like I. don't own it but I'm like we but like I. am I like yeah why am I I didn't do. anything we're in this fight because you. did this and somehow I'm upset and then. I'm having to that's like that's not.

healthy that's not fair to you because. when you look back why do you think you. were so quick to take accountability and. arguments even if it wasn't your own. problem because he was just so like. adamant. that I have a hard time like admitting. I'm wrong or taking accountability and. so when you're partner is telling you. those things like you want to believe. them you want to be like okay if if this.

really is like a problem I have and. something that you're really upset about. then of course like I want to try to do. what I. can to fix that but yeah it's it's I. don't know I I don't know if I'll ever. know the feeling of leaving an argument. and not feeling like you both won there. is no winning it's like oh God we like. you kind of said like like we came. together and we solved that together. like how did you feel a lot of times.

when you would apologize like and then. you walk away from that situation after. like the 50th time like did it start to. weigh on you um I would say it didn't. weigh on me in the sense that it made me. angry but it. almost. worried me that he was going to leave me. or break up with me or that I wasn't. good enough. um I think like when you're told that.

you're the one in the wrong then you're. like okay so what can I do to be better. or be a better. partner um yeah and now looking back on. it you have I have to ask myself like. was it deserved or not I don't know but. yeah it was one of those things where I. went. into the. conversation irritated with him and then. I leave the conversation like hoping. that he's not irritated with me and that.

I'm sorry and I want him to not be mad. at me like you start to lose your mind a. little bit let's talk about the breakup. daddy gang let's talk about dating okay. I know I am married but don't get it. twisted so many of my friends are still. single and they come to me and they're. like Alex what should I be doing and I'm. like get on Tinder I know that you guys. can vet people before before you go on. dates with them then all of a sudden. you're not wasting a Friday night you're.

having the best time on a Friday night. with this date Tinder cares about every. step of your dating journey and it has. plenty of unique safety features like. are you sure which Vibe checks any. messages that seem a bit risky and helps. keep message threads a safer place to. start a conversation share my date lets. your friends know about your plans and. noonlight discreetly connects you with. help if you need it I want all of you. going on dates daddy gang and having so. much fun and Tinder has your back you.

are actually going to be able to be. present and focus on your date because. of all these safety features put in. place so explore all the possibilities. for yourself it starts with a swipe. download Tinder. today from what we can see online when. your relationship ended you were in. Tokyo together what was the state of. your relationship when you were going. into that trip it was great I mean we. were literally talking about engagement. marriage all the things on that trip um.

we had. been together since I think it was like. January 3rd I met him in London okay so. we were in London having a great time. and then we went from London to. Tokyo um just. because we had the time and we had these. like flight vouches that were expiring. um for like an international flight and. Japan is like my favorite country in the. entire world so we were like let's just.

do it while we can so it was very. unplanned um very last minute trip but. it was fun exciting you know everything. was great there was nothing wrong um so. okay so we're in Tokyo everything's. going fine what happens. so it's it's just so hard to grasp. because I still I don't even know if. like. he knew it was coming like or if he or.

if it was like he of the moment I don't. know so everything was fine the night. before we didn't have an argument but I. was feeling very overwhelmed I was like. trying so hard to find like a good. dinner spot for us because the spot we. ended up wanting to go to was closed or. something so we were. scrambling and I was putting so much. pressure on finding a good spot because. he cares like this is like his career.

you know like going to good food spots. so he would do like a review if you guys. got there of like food any anywhere we'. go if it was good like literally every. single meal that we would have we were. filming so yeah I think I just put so. much pressure on myself to find good. spots if I'm the one that's finding a. spot so on top of that I just started my. period I felt terrible like just was.

having like a rough few hours I guess. and I remember asking him to help me. find a spot and he was. like you know no like I I think he was. like doing something else on his phone. and he was like it doesn't matter where. we go like we can go literally anywhere. just like pick somewhere I don't he kept. saying like it's not a big deal it. doesn't matter but I felt like it was a. big deal and that it did matter so we. get to this place it wasn't what I. thought it was going to be um and it was.

just one of those things where I'm like. tired cranky emotional on my period. feeling terrible overwhelmed with. looking for a dinner spot for like an. hour and then we get there and it was a. disappointment so then I started tearing. up at dinner two tear one two we're done. didn't you know allow myself to get. upset after that just tried to calm down. we went home and did he say anything no. didn't say anything but in the past if I.

have like a little meltdown like that or. if I'm feeling overwhelmed or anything. he just like lets me move through the. emotions get it all out of my system and. then you know okay I'm ready to talk. like something like that so dinner like. did you guys have like normal. conversation no we didn't even we didn't. even talk like we just sat there had. dinner got into the Uber wait Rachel why. did did you feel so upset about like the.

menu not being good I felt like whenever. we would go somewhere and it was bad. that I it was just disappointing cuz I. think like we're on trips it's like. every meal counts like every dinner. every everywhere we go it counts or it. just it's important um because you you. know only have so many meals in the day. and this sounds crazy but as like a food. person I'm trying to just make sure that.

he's. getting good content for our trip and. stuff because I know like it's important. to him and that it's something that. we'll both post about so I'm just. feeling bad I guess that it was a bad. spot and then um are you. feeling like you're disappointing. him yeah I guess I guess yeah yeah. disappointing him or just yeah like I.

think he was just like what is the big. deal so he finally get to the. hotel and I give him a hug and he I. could just tell like he was just like. you know not very comforting and I'm. like are you mad at me and he was like. I'm just so confused like why you were. so upset like what was that and I. explained to him I'm like I felt like I. had let you down like I felt like that. was disappointing and I hate going to a. place that isn't somewhere that like you.

could post about I feel like it's a. waste and he just was trying to tell me. like it's not that serious like it's not. that big of a deal but then he was. concerned about me getting so upset he. was like that was like there was no. reason for you to get upset like that. and he found it. concerning that. I got. that emotional I guess and so then I was.

and he just was trying to express to me. like if you get emotional about little. things like this like what is going to. happen in life when something really. terrible happens like how are you going. to be able to react to things that are. actually really scary or disappointing. or sad. um and I think like I don't know it just. hurt to hear cuz I'm like I probably. would react. to things that are terrible in a sad way. like what do you mean I don't know I.

felt like I was being punished for. crying I was just so weird I don't know. still don't really. know that whole situation I just was. really confused by his reaction and in. the past like how does Matt usually. respond when you are upset um he'll let. me like he'll give me my space you want. space no no I I don't I like want to be. comforted but for some reason Matt. always thought that that I'd need space. and then we'd talk about it after even. though I would tell him like I don't.

want you to like give me my space cuz. then I feel like I'm not getting any. support you know or like comfort from. you. um but that was just something that he. thought like he just needed me to calm. down and then we would talk and. everything would be okay so this happens. and then is literally the next day the. breakup. yes so you wake up the next morning what.

are The Vibes is he tense are you guys. acting weird like take me through that. whole day everything was fine like when. we went to bed he was saying like it's. okay it's okay. so um I just let it go he let it go it. was totally fine the next day okay and I. think it was one of those things where I. mean literally a few days before we're. talking about. how.

he feels lucky to have me as a partner. and that you know there's just like so. many qualities that he loves that I have. and that you know we see relationships. with other people where they deal with a. lot. and um are put up with a lot of things. and he's like I just so nice that you. know I just. feel like very lucky that I can call you. my partner and that was so crazy to. think like that was like two days before.

the breakup yeah and that morning. everything was fine we were in good. moods and I think it was one of those. things where it was just a. little maybe little arguments open up a. can of worms so we were on the way to. get some food. and I. was like scrolling through my phone. showing him a bunch of videos I guess I.

was bothering him I was annoying him and. he he didn't snap at me but he basically. was like. okay kind of snapped at me to where I. got mad at him CU I was like you know. even if I'm annoying you like don't. treat me like. that and. so then it seemed like we were both kind. of like mad at each other or annoyed.

with each other so when we got to this. place it was just this big Market with a. bunch of different food and everything. so we get there and I just walk off and. go do my own thing for a second um I'm. picking up like Chopsticks and things. for my friends and um he's going to find. this like matcha spot that he was really. excited try so we kind of just get there. and split up for a little bit which. wasn't you know normal like usually we. would be doing these things together and.

how do you feel in that moment like are. you do you have a pit in your stomach. are you like something's off no I just. was. like I didn't think anything Ser like. too much of it I really didn't I just. was annoyed with him that's all like I. was annoyed with him and he was annoyed. with me like it really didn't even seem. like that big of a deal it was just one. of those things where you're just. like you know at that point we had been. together non-stop for like 3 weeks and I. think like you. just get annoyed with each other about.

little things and I think that's where. we were we were just like irritated with. one another with little things but I. didn't think anything of it it just it. was what it was and then we had some. food we got back in the car and I just. was being really quiet and he was like. you know can I ask like why you're being. so quiet and I was like I'm just I feel. like you're irritated with me right now. and I don't really like want to say.

anything if I don't have to say anything. cuz I just don't want to BU bug you like. I just don't really want to chat right. now if there's nothing I have to say. because I just want to try and like give. you your space because I feel like. you're annoyed with me right. now and um that is just like what opened. up everything. and we had gotten into an. argument right then and there like. walking in the street we skipped lunch. we went back to the.

hotel and just ended up having like a. bigger conversation I think that's what. I was saying like can of worms where it. wasn't a big deal we were just a little. irritated with one another but then it. was like okay now. that we're back here again where like. you're annoy with me I'm annoy with you. I feel like you're in the wrong you feel. like I'm in the wrong. um he really. just kind of let out everything that I.

guess he had been feeling for a while I. don't know can you share some of that. yeah I mean he. just he said that at the end of the. day there were just qualities about me. that he. worries. about having an a wife like at the end. of the day like there are things that we. aren't. compatible with and like the whole.

accountability and saying sorry and all. that was really the main. thing and. um yeah it was just one of those things. where he I think just had this. realization that I should want. to propose to you by this time like at. this point in our relationship I should. be wanting those. things and. I should be ready for that but I'm not. still I still don't feel like we're.

ready or I don't feel like I'm. ready um I don't know if I ever see. myself proposing to you I can't actually. see myself married to. you. um he said. that you know maybe one day he would get. there but he doesn't feel ready now and. I told him I said well I feel like after.

4 years you should know or you should. feel ready and if you don't then that's. not a good thing we probably shouldn't. be together if you don't feel like that. after four years because you know me. better than anyone I know you better. than. anyone so you should know by now if you. see this for the long haul or not.

and it was just one of those things. where it was like do you. want to make this work like do you think. that it's me or is it something with you. like are you scared or is it really me. like is is your perfect. person somewhere out there you know is. it not. me. and yeah he came to the conclusion that. he didn't think it was me.

and that he um he said like he just. didn't want me to end up resenting. him by like wasting more of my time if. it wouldn't. happen. um and yeah he just said you. know you're you're beautiful smart and. funny and you'll find you'll find. someone you find a guy that will love. you for you but yeah he just didn't.

think that it was him but it was just. really um it's just a lot. to hear at once because a few days. before you know I'm hearing the. opposite in that moment Rachel were you. like vocalizing like anything in terms. of like why have you why have you been. so vocal like I've seen him on podcasts. and he's commented in random like fan.

accounts being like engagements coming. soon like he's been overly vocal more. than you about like telling the world. like oh it's coming like it's coming. which. like is a little odd I'm not going to. lie like in my opinion I was like like. how much he was speaking about it and. yet like now what you're sharing for him. to just like quickly be like never mind. like in that moment where you're like. then why have you been saying this why. did two days ago you say I was like the.

perfect partner with you I think because. he I think it's cuz he did love me or. does really love. me and I think he wanted it to work out. and like I think he wanted to picture it. and it was one of those things where it. was like well it would definitely be. easy too like it just wouldn't make. sense and that was like the next steps.

naturally in our relationship and he. does love me to where I think he just. wanted it to work but I I guess at the. end of the day like as much as he wanted. it to work and as much as he loves me he. still just doesn't think that I'm like. the person for him and so I think maybe. he was just trying to see if he could. get there or convince himself that it. was the right thing but yeah I'm at the. point now where I'm like I still don't. know like I don't know if he reacted out.

of anger or spite or if he didn't mean. it um and to be totally honest with you. if he didn't post it so publicly like. right after he broke up with me I don't. even. know where we'd be right now because I. think when someone tells you that to. your face like I don't think you're my. person I don't have her picture as. getting married it's your time to walk. away like I can't can't stick around. after that even if I want to even if. it's hard for me to let go and like I.

love him so much and I wanted him to be. my partner but yeah I think when someone. says that to you it's like what else. what else can you do yeah you have to. give it up at that point when you were. hearing him say all this to you like. what was going through your head. um. honestly I think. like I was worried that he thought that.

for a little while like I guess in the. back of my mind I always wondered if. he had doubts or like yeah just had. doubts about me being his his. person and I only had those doubts. because you know the actions like I said. weren't following up with his words so. I'm like I feel like I just want to be. with someone who like is so excited to. be with me and wants to wants to marry.

me and is excited to you know start a. life with me and I feel like it was. definitely one of those things with him. where I could feel like he was. nervous but I just always told. myself he was nervous because of like. how he grew up and he didn't want to end. up like his father or just didn't want. to like end up in like a broken.

home um and that he took it really. really seriously which he would probably. say the same thing that he just puts so. much weight on it because he never wants. to do to his family what his dad did to. them but I also told myself. that I think like like sometimes that. put like a hindrance on our.

relationship and I always wondered like. is it me or is it something that like we. need to like work through together. so at the end of this conversation is it. like okay so we're breaking up it ended. with him saying you know you're. beautiful smart funny you'll find. someone I'll never say a bad thing about. you. and yeah we're done and I literally said. okay I said okay didn't say anything.

else I just said okay and then I got my. suitcase went down to the lobby got in a. car went to the airport did you have a. ticket yes so I had to leave a day. before okay um I was trying to make it. home for a baby shower that I did not. end up going to he did this right before. he knew you were having to go to the. airport to fly from Tokyo to Atlanta. yes so that was yeah just I just like.

couldn't believe it. um going to the airport I was like what. the hell is happening you know yeah like. were you in shock were you crying both. just like pure shock so much. confusion um obviously sad because of. everything he just said to me very very. hurtful which. here's the thing he's allowed to feel. like that if that's really how he feels.

you're so allowed to feel like that I. wouldn't want someone to propose to me. and be married to me just cuz they felt. like they have to even though they. didn't feel like they wanted to so at. the end of the day if that's really how. he felt then he is so valid to feel like. that and at least we figured that out. before when were married or anything. also doesn't take away from the fact. Rachel that like it seems like you were. completely blindsided I mean yes I it. was definitely out of nowhere I don't.

think he was planning on doing it I. think that it was one of those things. where he. just came to this realization in our. during our argument I don't know so we. have to talk. about his breakup post because without a. doubt it is one of the weirder cryptic I. mean people on the internet like this is. this is going to go down in history it's. like one of the weirdest Instagram. breakup posts I've ever seen can you.

talk to me about like where were you. when you saw this post um so I had just. gotten to the. airport. and you know check my bags everything. got on the flight okay. and I'm in my seat and for some reason. my phone I think it's cuz I downloaded a. VPN on my phone phone a few years ago. and now for whatever reason it cannot.

connect to plain Wi-Fi okay it just. can't I don't know why so whenever I. take these long flights like I'm off the. grid so um we're literally getting ready. to take off and my phone blows up it's. one of my best friends and it says r. with a bunch of question. marks and as soon as I saw that I'm like. oh my gosh how does she know and then. she text me again and said I saw Matt's. post is this real life and that's how I. found out that he posted so then.

literally the plane is taking off and I. see his. post and that's it I I don't have any. service or anything for like the next 12. hours so I'm freaking out because you. know just got broken up with and now few. hours later it's like for the whole. world to see. and I'm still like trying to process it. like I'm still in like total shock.

so then knowing like the whole world is. seeing this I'm like this is so crazy I. can't even wrap my mind around this. right now and I think that's why you. know I didn't say anything still haven't. like made a statement or anything cuz. I'm processing this. just like everyone else is like I'm a. week out of this you know so how what.

would you say like two hours after I. would say like yeah two or three hours. after he posted that when you read the. post what went through your mind like. what did you think of the post um I. don't know I honestly didn't think I. guess I was so freaked out about the. breakup itself and then just now knowing. that I'm going to have to navigate this. very. publicly um. that's kind of all I was thinking I. wasn't even like analyzing the post like. everyone else was yeah so I guess it was.

kind of funny just to see what people. had to say like people thought it was. weird that it was a bachelor photo cuz. we definitely like tried to remove. ourselves from the. show um. and yeah it. was interesting to see the caption only. because I feel like there was. no I don't know how to explain it I.

guess it almost seemed like saying it. like a. prayer. was the easier way to say it than to. like say something like real not that. real but just something like authentic. to like our actual. relationship. um but it's very him like I I guess it. didn't surprise me that he said it like. that I guess I was just surprised that.

he said it at all that he posted. that um why do you think he posted that. I would love to know I don't know I. don't know if it was out of just him. being so worked up if it was out of. anger or if it was one of those things. where he felt like he needed to do it to. really like finally just like put a nail. in the. coffin. but I have spoken with him since all of. that and I do know. that he definitely acknowledges that.

that was not the right decision the. right decision so we're going to get to. that cuz I'm just thinking one was there. any part of you on this 12-hour plane. ride one that wanted to be like sir can. I borrow your phone like were you I. would have been like like just to even. see like were you worried about what. people were saying or no you were just. still like oh no I was worried it's. definitely yeah it was one of those. things where maybe this ties into my. insecurities from the very beginning but.

I just felt like there was going to be. people like. celebrating and breaking up with me I. don't know I don't know I definitely. didn't think that or just like people. just sad just like oh like so sorry for. you guys like sad to hear this but like. wishing you both the best moving forward. I didn't expect it to be this like. people getting mad about the post like. that I mean I'm not going to lie like. sitting here and listening to it I know. there's like different steps basically.

to like grieving a breakup but I can't. help but. be mad for you. because you guys have been together for. four years you've traveled many times. together that man knows that your phone. doesn't work on Wi-Fi on Long flights. yeah no I. mean it's like when I step back and. really look at. everything I'm mad like yes that's. [ __ ] up like he should not have done. that to me after four years shouldn't.

have like he didn't even text me to give. me a warning like saying like hey I'm. posting this so it just hurt. to know that like that's how my friends. found out and my family and like my. little. sister and that I didn't even like get. to talk to them about it or just like. grief privately for like a day you know. so even like Landing was just so scary. just like the anxiety that came over me.

knowing I was like about to get service. back and I didn't know what I was about. to. see and I just knew my phone was going. to be blown up from all my friends and. my family and everything so that hurt. what happened when you landed like did. you get an Uber home who did you go to. First who did you talk to um I landed. and I did have my car at the airport so.

I was driving home and at this point I. think the post went up like 6:00 a.m. us. time or like New York time. so I think I landed at like 6:00 p.m. so. it had been like all day my friends were. waiting to hear from me I got in my car. and I just like did a voice memo and. just let them know what happened. and um yeah I just went home and you. know by the time I got home it was like. 8 or 9:00 so I just went straight to.

sleep because I was exhausted and when. I'm depressed I just like completely. yeah shut down and I just sleep and I. don't get out of bed so I did that did. you text him like what the hell you. didn't text him no no I. just felt like the best thing at the. time. was just to not talk to him. and because he didn't give me the.

decency to like give me a heads up. or even just give me a few days like. it's one thing. to I don't even think you should post a. breakup announcement the same day you. break up no but let alone you know not. even give me a warning that you're doing. it um so yeah I just went home slept for. like what felt like you know 48 hours.

and then finally woke up to my. sister coming in my room she has a key. to my house so she like let herself in. and like woke me up and hung out with me. for like the next few days and. [Music]. then I finally like told my friends I. could see I could see them and hang out. with them on Saturday it was the first. time I saw some of my friends just cuz I. just. needed just to be by myself for a bit.

and just not talk about it or think. about it I just wasn't ready to like. debrief and. like I think when you talk about it it. just feels more real so I just wasn't. ready. to like accept it I. guess. when breakups also happen I think one of. the biggest mind [ __ ] is like you're. sitting there you're laying in your bed. you're so upset and the one person that.

you like. want yeah to talk to is the person that. just hurt you yep who reached out first. and like yeah that was so hard I. completely agree with that where it's. like I'm laying in bed and I want him to. comfort me but I'm but he's the one that. hurt me and I'm so mad at. him but I'm also still like so.

sad and of course like I still love him. so yeah just a lot of emotions to work. through. and I woke up like at 1:00 in the. morning and I had a Miss call from. him this was I don't know like four five. days after maybe from the. post and so I called him back. cuz I just didn't know why he was. calling me I didn't know if he was. giving me a heads up about something or.

if he needed something or if he was just. calling to talk I didn't know so I. called him back just to see what he. wanted and he just asked how I was doing. which like how do you think I'm doing. like what right um and. then yeah I confronted him about the. post said like you know. that really. sucked and that's when he was like yeah.

I ful admit that I could have handled. this a lot better and he. apologized and you know sometimes people. when they're in a really bad state or. they're really really angry or really. really upset you know you make mistakes. or you don't handle things in the best. way you can but I don't think that I. just I don't want people. thinking that like he's this bad guy.

or that he's like not I don't know. considerate of my feelings or whatever. cuz he is a good guy at the end of the. day but obviously he made a mistake. doing that but I think he knows that and. I think he regrets it so yeah it's just. hard cuz I'm like I would I probably. wouldn't even be sitting here if you. didn't do that yeah so it's just a lot. to like process and work through well no. and I also just want to say.

like this is why social media is so. confusing because on one hand I agree. it's like we probably wouldn't be. sitting here if he didn't post that but. also it's. like. knowing that you are going to at one. point have to speak and I think we kind. of like we talking about that before. this of like maybe it is nice to just. like sit down and even though it's still. so fresh like I think there's a chance. you're going to look back on this. interview in a year even six months and.

watch some of your responses and be like. oh my gosh like I didn't see it then you. know what I mean like everyone has that. Rachel like I've literally done that in. every relationship I've ever been in and. so does everyone in the world like you. are still in this like grieving period. clearly and you're still even like. understandably like the way that you're. defending him I'm not saying it doesn't. he doesn't warrant it it's actually just. like when you're getting out of a. relationship you're still kind of in the. relationship like that you were together. for four years it's what been what two.

weeks one week yeah not even not even. two weeks yeah not even two weeks so. it's like I think a lot of this is on. one hand there's the part of that me. feels bad of like we're having this so. fresh that like of course you're not. going to have like all the answers or. the Insight or whatever but I do think. hopefully this conversation is going to. like alleviate you from listen Bachelor. nation is amazing they're also very. intense and I feel like every single.

thing you would type would get picked. apart like there was no we talked about. this there wasn't going to be like a. perfect Instagram post or caption or. comment you could leave that would like. leave people. feeling like they have an understanding. not that they deserve it but they feel. like they do because of the way that. your guys relationship started so. publicly so I think it's this like mixed. bag of emotions um when you were. finishing like that call with him like.

where did you guys leave it like what. did you say we left it like it's so. weird I I was about to say like I just. wish we could somehow be friends cuz he. was my best friend and it hurts. to not have him as my best friend. anymore but that's like how we left it. like we were just talking like. everything was okay you know I asked him. like how his last day was in Tokyo and.

like you know he filled me in. on like what he he did and. then. um yeah we we were just talking like you. know everything was. fine and he ended up falling asleep cuz. I called him back at like 1:00 a.m. cuz. both of our jet lag was so crazy at the. time. and yeah he ended up like falling asleep. and I just hung up and that's that how.

long was the conversation it was like it. was pretty long it was like over an hour. at least did you guys talk about like. are you going to do no contact for a. little bit or you no we didn't discuss. that I don't even I think like that's. something that we probably have to. do um we haven't talked a lot like he's. called me every like few days just to. make sure I'm okay but I told him that. he didn't need to do that the last time.

we spoke I was like you don't need to. like call and check up on me like I'll. be. okay and so that was that was that. um but yeah I don't know why he's I. don't know if he's feeling bad or he. just wants to see where I'm at I don't. know in your head right now like if. you're being really really honest with. yourself do you think there's any chance. you guys ever get back together I don't. think I can which is sad.

um I don't think I can. cuz I think when someone says those. things that he said you know like I. don't think you're my person I don't see. us getting married I think that's when. you like have to call it. quits um and then yeah just the way that. he handled all of this and his post and. everything like I forgive him. but I just don't think I can be with. someone that I I felt like he just.

respected me at the end of the day doing. that so yeah it's just one of those. things where you like have to stand up. for yourself even if you don't want to. like of course there's part of me that. wishes that we could just get back. together and pretend none of this ever. happened but yeah that's not the case. and I. think as hard as as it is I think the. right decision is to just stand up for. myself and be on my own I was going to.

say. like I'm so impressed by one just like. how you're handling everything because I. think I think a lot of people listening. right now understandably are going to. like dissect what you've been saying and. they're going to judge certain things. you've said they're going try to analyze. things you've said um I've even been. trying to do it I'm like oh I have an.

opinion on that and that but then I'm. also like it's not my life this is your. life and I also again recognize like. this is so fresh for you I do just have. to say in the most painful way and I. don't think the way he did it was right. I do think you're going to look back and. you are going to be so [ __ ] grateful. that he posted not how he did it not the. way he did it but the fact that he did. it and put it out there because I think. we all can feel it when there's love and.

when there's history and when there's. not something huge that happened of like. cheating or whatever it's so hard not to. go back it is easier to go back than to. stay away because it's your comfort it's. the person that you love it's the person. you've cried with it's the person that. you've envisioned having kids with and a. life with and a marriage with and a. wedding with and all the best things. that come with with life you've pictured. it with this person you've spoken about. it with this person so the fact that you. now have to be kind of just cut off from.

this I do think it will be a blessing. for you Rachel that like you will look. back and be like I don't know anyone. that maybe would have been as strong if. if that post didn't go up to not go back. you know what I mean cuz like you said. you're like I don't know if he did it in. the Heat of the Moment I couldn't really. tell if we were really breaking up in. that moment or if he was just angry like. you do deserve someone that without a. doubt wants to be with you and wants to. start a life with you and wants to build.

a family and all the great things and. you're right it doesn't make him a bad. person but just from like another woman. sitting across from you like why I said. like it will be interesting what you if. you look back on this in six months it's. like there are a lot of things you're. saying. that as a girl sitting across from you. I'm like babe stand up you deserve so. much [ __ ] better and it doesn't mean. he has to be then deemed a dick it's. just like objectively you deserve so.

much better like you annoying him or he. not like all these little things that I. know we're only getting like basically. 1% understandably you're not going to. like share your whole relationship but. like you deserve so much better and you. should not have to feel like you're in. doubt you should not have to feel like. you are second to him and like there's a. power in Balance like you shouldn't have. to feel like that and I know I don't. need to like preach to you but I just. want you I can tell it's hard right now.

no I mean yeah I completely agree with. everything you're saying like I. definitely have an attachment to him. right now I mean how can you not when. you spend you know every day with. someone for four years straight and I do. love him so much but yeah it's just one. of those things where maybe in another. Universe we worked out and things were. okay but it just really sucks to. like step back and look at how things. ended up for us it's just like.

heartbreaking um but yeah I just think I. I do need to just stand up for myself. and you know tell myself that what he. did wasn't okay and that I just need to. try and move on I also think like to. everyone listening and even us having. this conversation right now like I. almost started crying when you were. like like those like children that we. envisioned creating together like no. longer will exist like it's devastating. like it's absolutely heartbreaking but I.

also think when you get broken up with. and you're forced to move forward I. think you're going to have a lot of. beautiful reflection not even on that. relationship but of yourself like even. just like in the past almost two weeks. like has there been anything that you. looked at where four years is a long. time like do you think think there's any. part of yourself that you compromised or. you lost within that relationship.

because when you're in a partnership you. do compromise yeah I'm sure. um I think that's something that with. time I'll start to realize but I think. like when I have talked to my friends. about it I think that they definitely. said like it just seemed like you were. always like giving 110% but it was. difficult. for him to like reciprocate it at times. like it was like pulling teeth to try. and get him to come to a wedding with me.

and just like little things like that. and I love to think I'm this like you. know like badass independent woman but I. definitely would say that I like. compromise my values at times cuz I felt. like that was the right thing to do in. the moment um. it was definitely like you know. he was like not the one in charge or.

anything but you know he definitely took. lead. and I just wanted to support him through. everything whatever that was and I. didn't mind you know letting. him have the spotlight I guess if that. makes sense that's poor wording but no I. get what you're saying like just to back. you up there like a lot of what you've. shared with me today is like a lot of. it's been on Matt's terms it's like if.

it's good for Matt then you're being a. supportive partner but at what point is. it like what does Rachel want and like. why don't you get to call some of the. shots and like what would make you happy. and like why are you having to beg him. to do certain things and then when he. ever wants to do things you're like I'm. ready to go like I think that's where I. can feel it every woman in America. watching this is going to be like Rachel. I cannot wait and I know this is so. premature to even be saying but like. you've said it to your friends before.

we've all said it to our friends when. they go through a breakup and because. I've lived it and you're about to live. it where it's like you're going to feel. the difference when you meet a guy that. is all about you and has no doubts and. it doesn't take away from what you and. Matt had but like you are like he said. you are so beautiful and smart and. interesting and you're like a great. person I can already tell we just met. I'm like you're great you're great. someone's going to be so lucky and that.

is how you should feel in the. relationship where it's like reciprocal. not you keeping like wait wait for me. like wait what about the like you. deserve that everyone deserves that. again it doesn't make him a bad person. but maybe this is like the biggest. blessing that needed to happen in order. for you to finally find that partnership. that is 50/50 where you do feel like you. have a voice of value and you get to. stand up for yourself in moments be like. hey no I don't need to take. accountability cuz why are we having. this conversation cuz you made me upset.

over this so you know what I mean it's. like little things that will come and. I'm still working on it and I'm married. you know what I mean so it's like it's. tough though yeah why did you want to. speak on this today I know I've spoken a. bunch but like why did you want to speak. on this today I feel. like well well when you reached out to. me I I just really thought about it and. and I felt. like it needed to have a longer.

conversation than just you know a little. story or a caption or there it was just. there was so much to it and a lot to. break down and I wanted to do this for. me I felt like I needed to do it to get. some closure with everything and I did. want to do it for you know anyone else. who cared like you said like we did have. a very public. relationship and we did have a lot lot. of people supporting us and I know at. the end of the day like the only people. who really matter in the relationship is.

you and the other person but I did. just I saw all these rumors and the. speculation and the theories and all. this craziness and I just wanted to get. the true story out there and just share. my side of it in case anyone is going. through anything similar or if they just. feel lost confused blindsided anything. and if anyone can take something away. from this um then you know I'm glad I.

came but yeah I just really. wanted to do it just to help myself move. on and get some closure and I just feel. like after four years and after all this. craziness something just needed to be. said no I really appreciate you being so. open because I'm aware like if we had. this interview even in like a year from. now I bet if I asked you these same. exact questions maybe 75% of the answers. could be really different which is the. beautiful part of life and time of you.

just being like you're in it right now. you're in The Grieving stage and slowly. more things are going to become more. apparent to you and I really respect how. thoughtful you're being about the way. you speak about him and I think Daddy. gang listening like once you go through. a breakup now you get to just fully. focus on yourself and I know that. probably excited for that yeah and I. know it probably feels weird a little. bit cuz you've been in a partnership. where for four years it's been like me. and him me and him but now I think in a.

fun way it's like taking this and. knowing all the things of how he didn't. make you feel good or when moments where. you felt like [ __ ] and then the good. yeah and basically know like what you. want next in a partner I'm sure there's. things that you're like H I have to have. that Matt had that one thing of whether. he's funny or whether it's it and you're. going to look for that but then let's be. real you got a list now of things that. you're like I will not put up with that. in my next relationship as you should. yeah as you should um is there anything.

else just in terms of whether it was. like rumors that you wanted to just like. dispel that you've read that you were. like wait that's so not true that you. were like should we just put an end to. it I'm I'm trying to think like I've. seen so much crazy stuff I try not to. look but then when I realized we were. doing this I was like okay I definitely. just want to see like what is being. discussed and I think the only thing. that made me really sad reading was. people saying that he cheated or that I.

insinuated that he cheated CU he did not. cheat I don't think he ever cheated I. don't think that you know at the end of. the day he's at least a good enough guy. to be faithful like I never worried. about that and so I just don't want. people thinking that he was this like. Unfaithful guy that you know broke my. trust or cheated on me or anything but. it's. also kind of fun to like tell myself. that you know I can find myself again.

and get back to. just you know loving me and finding my. own confidence because I think it's been. missing for four years I'm not saying. it's his fault. but there was probably a lot of stuff. that I needed to work through from the. show that I never have so yeah I guess. in a way I'm just excited to work on. myself I also will say. just girl advice. MH don't let him keep coming back in I. so know what you mean by you want to be.

friends cuz how can you envision a world. not only not him being your friend but. like without him I get that you're going. to make me cry no I know I'm going to. cry cuz we've all been there it's like. it's unfathomable to be like Matt's not. in my life anymore but what I will say. is like from experience I feel like. sometimes the person that ends the. relationship has the guilt. like there's guilt that and he keeps. calling you to check in and. unfortunately it's going to be on you to. have to be like one he's moving on right.

but he's also checking in on you yeah. it's going to prolong you being able to. actually be like okay I have to cut ties. and sometimes it does take no contact. cuz it's like how can you have someone. in your life that you did everything. with you loved all of it and still be. cordial while you're trying to move on I. don't I don't think that it doesn't mean. you can't in a couple years like see. each other out or at a bar and so be.

cordial and yeah but I don't think in my. opinion I don't think friends at least. in the very beginning is going to allow. you if we're being selfish for you for a. minute to move on yeah you got no and. that's why I told him I said you know. you don't have to call me and check in. on me like I'll be okay um cuz yeah I do. agree I think that like even just. hearing his voice on on the. phone it's just really hard you know and. it makes me miss him but I promise you. the best part and everyone that's gone.

through this you know what I'm talking. about is like you're literally like no I. literally can't live without him like. how is my life going to go on like he's. my best friend he's my everything yeah. and then when you do no contact all of a. sudden whether you're like at the nail. salon one day or you're walking down the. street or you're at a friend's birthday. party or having a wine night with your. girls you're going to like smile to. yourself and you're be like oh my my God. I haven't thought of him in like weeks I. haven't thought of him or even if it's. days you know what I mean like it's slow.

wins but then all of a. sudden you move on so thank you so much. for coming on you are such a sweet. person and I'm really really really. sorry that this happened to you but like. I said like girl girl girl we're getting. back out there is only the beginning. well thank you for having me appreciate. it thank you so much.

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